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Episode 33 - Making of The Munsters Pinball

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·1h 35m·analyzed·Jan 10, 2019
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TL;DR

Munsters Pinball dev team discusses design philosophy, dual playfields, and simplified ruleset in exclusive podcast roundtable.

Summary

A roundtable discussion featuring the core Munsters Pinball development team—designer John Borg, programmer Dwight Sullivan, artist Christopher Franchi, and sound engineer Jerry Thompson—discussing the game's creation, design philosophy, and features. The team emphasizes the game's simplified ruleset compared to recent Stern titles, the dual-playfield architecture inspired by Haunted House, and the extensive creative effort required to capture the show's comedic tone. The game represents a shift toward accessible, feature-based gameplay over epic complexity.

Key Claims

  • John Borg pitched Munsters as a pinball theme for 25 years before finally securing the license.

    high confidence · John Borg stated: 'I've been pitching this thing for 25 years and I'm actually glad we're doing it now because we've got the LCD display.'

  • The Munsters game features a lower playfield (Grandpa's cellar) that was originally planned for Aerosmith but not completed.

    high confidence · John Borg: 'I was going to do a lower playfield on Aerosmith, and I didn't have time... When I got the Munsters project, I'm like, this is going to be Grandpa's cellar.'

  • The game uses a 5/8-inch (0.625-inch) ball on the lower playfield, smaller than the 15/16-inch tested size, to balance flipper power and prevent teleporting ball behavior.

    high confidence · Dwight Sullivan discussing flipper tuning: 'I think it's 5/8ths... we went a little smaller and we went a little larger... The ball would teleport. Like you'd flip and the ball would teleport around... I backed it off until I think it really now feels like pinball.'

  • Dwight Sullivan was inspired by Haunted House's four-flipper, two-playfield design and pitched the concept to John Borg after playing it at a friend's house.

    high confidence · Dwight Sullivan: 'I'm at our friend Joe's house just down the street from here and I'm playing Haunted House in his basement and I text and I'm like, holy crap, I have like an epiphany... I sent it to John and I said, John, John, we got to do this.'

  • George Stern requested Dwight Sullivan simplify the ruleset after his work on Star Wars, citing T2 as a model of simple, fun design.

    high confidence · Dwight Sullivan: 'George has been pounding into me, Dwight, you need to do T2 again. Because T2 is one of George's favorite games... You need a simple little set of rules and fun.'

  • The Munsters game eliminates the standard ball save at the start of play, implementing it only during Herman Multiball to create volatility.

    high confidence · Dwight Sullivan: 'Munsters doesn't have a ball save at the beginning of each ball. It has a ball save when you start Herman Multiball. The game is designed from the beginning with no ball save in mind.'

Notable Quotes

  • “I've been pitching this thing for 25 years and I'm actually glad we're doing it now because we've got the LCD display and it just shows so well.”

    John Borg @ early in discussion — Reveals Borg's long-standing passion for the Munsters IP and explains why the timing was right with modern technology.

  • “It's not epic like Star Wars, but it has a whole different kind of vibe to it. It's got all these fun little areas to do.”

    Dwight Sullivan @ late in discussion — Defines the philosophical shift in ruleset complexity—from epic journey-based design to accessible, area-based gameplay.

  • “I don't like like the first switch you hit kills your skill shot or whatever I want it to be you know I want it you have some time.”

    Dwight Sullivan @ mid-discussion, skill shot explanation — Shows design intentionality around accessibility: giving players 10 seconds to attempt the skill shot rather than instant loss.

  • “When he did his shtick, he would take breaks and then while he was taking breaks, instead of just resting his voice, he was doing Johnny Carson. Better than Johnny Carson.”

    Jerry Thompson @ during voice work discussion — Illustrates the quality of original voice actor performances captured for the game.

  • “I spent some time playing with the power of the flippers. So it feels good. The ball, like in the beginning, the ball would teleport... I backed it off, backed it off, backed it off until I think it really now feels like pinball.”

    Dwight Sullivan @ lower playfield flipper tuning discussion — Demonstrates iterative tuning process to ensure lower playfield feels like a real game, not a gimmick.

  • “Well, you know, they steal my art so much, you know, I might as well get something back even though I have to pay for it.”

    Christopher Franchi @ bootleg merchandise discussion — Reveals ongoing IP theft issues affecting artists and shows industry friction over unlicensed merchandise.

  • “It's a world under glass under a world under glass. Under a world under plastic.”

Entities

John BorgpersonDwight SullivanpersonChristopher FranchipersonJerry ThompsonpersonStern PinballcompanyThe Munstersgame

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Stern Pinball officially revealed Munsters at an event with livestream; development team conducted exclusive podcast roundtable discussing design philosophy, features, and creative process.

    high · Ken Cromwell opens: 'Hot off the reveal of Stern Pinball's latest anticipated release of the Munsters Pinball'; Jerry Thompson: 'I actually got on the live stream with Jack Danger.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: George Stern directed Dwight Sullivan to simplify Munsters ruleset after complex Star Wars design, citing T2 as model of simple, fun gameplay.

    high · Dwight Sullivan: 'George has been pounding into me, Dwight, you need to do T2 again... you need a simple little set of rules and fun.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Four-flipper dual-playfield architecture inspired by Haunted House; enables simultaneous multiball on both playfields and cradle mechanics.

    high · Dwight Sullivan: 'I'm at our friend Joe's house... I'm playing Haunted House... I take a picture... I sent it to John and I said, John, John, we got to do this.' Game features lower playfield with multiball capability.

  • ?

    design_innovation: Lower playfield uses 5/8-inch ball (vs. 15/16-inch tested) with extensively tuned flipper power to prevent teleporting ball effect and maintain pinball feel.

    high · Dwight Sullivan: 'The ball would teleport... I backed it off, backed it off, backed it off until I think it really now feels like pinball.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Munsters designed with explicit goal of accessibility for new players while maintaining depth for dedicated players; feature-based rather than mode-based design; 10-second skill shot window.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.288

0:00
Coming to you from Chicago, Illinois, the home of Stern Pinball, the special WinLit Pinball Podcast welcomes you to the making of Munsters Pinball, a roundtable discussion featuring John Borg, Dwight Sullivan, Christopher Franchi, and Jerry Thompson. Hey, that's me. Now, here are your hosts, Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb. Hello Pinball Land and welcome to a very special edition of the special When Lit Pinball Podcast. My name is Ken Cromwell. I'm Bill Webb. Hot off the reveal of Stern Pinball's latest anticipated release of the Munsters Pinball, we're about to bring you some exclusive content that may be a first in pinball podcasting history. Now joining us to discuss the ideas, creation and the evolution of this pinball machine is lead game designer John Borg, lead programmer Dwight Sullivan, renowned artist Christopher Franchi and lead sound engineer Jerry Thompson. Now these four individuals, they spearheaded what some are anticipating to be one of Stern's most popular releases to date. So on behalf of Bill and myself, I'd like to take this moment to thank you all for taking the time to share the story and welcome you all to the Special When Lit Pinball Podcast. Absolutely. Great to be here. I wanted to start this off, guys. Just take a couple minutes, introduce each other, give us a little brief take on what's happening with pinball and your world and the creation of Munsters and then we'll go off to the races. Does that sound good? Sure. All right. Hey, Johnny, let's start with you, the designer. Well, let's see. The good-looking guy is Chris Franchi without an E at the end. And then I've got Dwight Sullivan sitting next to me. And then Jerry Thompson, he's over on the other side of the world in Seattle with us right now. And I'm John Borg, and we're really happy to be here tonight and chat with everybody. We had a really, really, really long day. I think a lot of us were watching the podcast all day from Jack Danger at the show. My phone and my Facebook and that podcast, it was amazing. It was a really, really exciting day. Yeah, it was. Dwight Solomon, welcome to the show. Thanks, thanks. I had the same day. I'm on my phone with three different people texting me and I'm on five different channels John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, rad cabs or side art panels on cabinet, John Popadiuk, Bowen Kerins, Laser Los, Mirco Playfields, Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast, INDISC, Scott Danesi. We've been working on this thing for a year or more. And this is Jerry out in Seattle, Jerry Thompson. Yeah, hey. So it's finally, you know, for everybody to get to see it and experience what we've been seeing is fun. It was great. Yeah, we had a really good time today. And it was really fun to, I actually got on the live stream with Jack Danger. And I was talking with people and answering questions and whatnot for a couple hours, kind of off and on, you know, Thanks love. Welcome back. A smile, a smile. I translated these subtitles. Hello. Ali Tadros, presumably, So that was mostly based on where we started with high tech games at the time, and other good things we did. divide, you know disputed it off great. Who was the number 19? Bog adjusting a bunch of garbage newsagent V. 될 Don seasoning the It's a lot unto the world though I mean and actually 61 minutes наша John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, Rad Cabs or Plays, John Pinball Podcast, INDISC, Scott Danesi. And the Herman Bash toy is funny, you know, I mean it's an awesome package. I think it, I don't know John, I think it might be your best game. I hope so. Me too. Yeah, I hope so. That right ramp is... And that's saying a lot because Metallica is a great game and Walking Dead's a great game and I think this flips like butter. It does. It actually really does. I'm really, really happy. So let me ask you guys this. You have been working on this game for how long would you say and I mean how does this Get dropped in all of your laps. How does this team get assembled? What are your thoughts when you hear, hey, Munsters is going to be worked on? What do you guys think? Yeah, you come into the office and say, you know, oh, you're working on Munsters. How does that all happen? They decided to mix the teams up. So all of a sudden, George comes in and says, you know, I worked on the last few games with Lonnie. I worked on, you know, a couple with Lyman, you know, over the past years. And then Dwight and I haven't worked on a game since Sharky Shootout, and I think that was 1999. John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, Rad Cabs or Sunset Pinball Podcast, INDISC, Scott Danesi. You know it's like I just kind of overwhelmed them with with video clips and stuff like that and I've watched the show I DVR'd the show for a couple years before we actually got the title I pitched the title about six months before we actually got the title again I've been pitching this thing for 25 years and I'm actually glad we're doing it now because we've got the LCD display and it just shows so well I had no idea that that was kind of a passion project for you oh yeah this is this is a dream theme for me I've been I've been pushing this I've been doing this for years and now it's finally come to your basements pretty soon. So it's a dream theme for you? Oh, totally. Yeah, absolutely. That's awesome. So I started to watch it a couple years ago and I was DVRing it and I think I watched both seasons two or three times through and then when I got the title, I just started watching it again and I started logging timestamps. and I call light shows, now I call them Dwight shows. I like that. Yeah, it's awesome. We need some t-shirts. Oh yeah. So, and I love, Franchi, I love your shirt. I saw your Munster shirt on Facebook today with Herman with his index finger up by his mouth going, shhh. Did you make that or did you find that somewhere? No, it was just one of those bootleg shirts I saw on Facebook. Wow. But it was so great because he was doing the thing. Oh man. I'm like, I gotta wear that. That is so funny. I was laughing when I saw that. Yeah, the artist is buying a bootleg shirt. The irony in that was... Well, you know, they steal my art so much, you know, I might as well get something back even though I have to pay for it. I see my artwork, just today I saw a creature, my Creature from the Black Lagoon artwork on a shirt. There's nothing we can do. Were you passionate about monsters? I mean, I assume that there's got to be a level of passion that drives you, not that you're going to put, not put forth your best, but I imagine it's a lot more appealing to you to work on something that you enjoy personally. I love monsters in general, you know, that sort of thing. And growing up, I think the monsters was either right before or right after Batman. So I watched all the time. I think it was right before Batman 66, right? Yeah. So I grew up on the monsters. I got an appreciation for Adam's Family later on because it's more sophisticated kind of humor. But as a kid, I loved the monsters because it was just so, you know, slapsticky and silly. Didn't Batman in color kind of push monsters off the air? Yeah. John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, rad cabs or side art panels on cabinet, John Popadiuk, Bowen Kerins, Laser Los, Mirco Playfields, Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast, INDISC, Scott Danesi. I started off not being a Munsters fan, right? And I was so wrong. The game turned out awesome and I love it. I completely love it. I'm turned 180 degrees. It's one of the best games ever. There's so much funny content in those two seasons and boy, I wish it would have won. You know, actually I'm glad it didn't go a couple more seasons because I probably wouldn't I'll be here, sitting here right now, because watching those episodes, you know, you figure the episodes are half an hour long, and I'm sure I spent probably two hours on each one, logging time stamps and going back and forth and back and forth. You know, there are over like 60, over 60 scenes in the match, but there could be 200 because there's so much funny stuff in the show. Yeah, there's so much there. Jerry, did you watch a lot of Monsters? Yeah, I did. I mean, you know, Gilligan was my favorite childhood show, but I also love the Universal Monsters, and so I remember, actually, yeah, if we have time, I'll tell you, my memory of Monsters is burned into my mind because I watched it every day for a long time. When I was five, I ran out to ask my brother, who was mowing the yard on the riding mower, what he wanted for lunch, and the grass was wet, and my whole right leg slid right through the hole under the mower. Oh! Stopped the mower. Oh yeah, yeah. Stopped the mower. Luckily, I, luckily, yeah, luckily, so he jumped off of it and turned the mower on the side, so luckily I had on jeans and tennis shoes, but you know, my, the mailman was delivering mail. I was laid up for days and I remember that on a little black and white 13 inch TV watching Munsters every day while I had my leg up in a bandage. What a great memory. Wow. Yeah, right. But yeah, it was great watching them again because when I went through every episode and pulled out clips that I thought would work, we all did. All of us watched the episodes and said, I think this would work for this or that. And while I was working on it, my son, who is almost 16, came down and he's like, what is this? And he started watching. He's like, this is really good. So I think even though it's a 60s TV show, it'll appeal to a lot of different ages. Yeah, I think people that haven't even seen the show, if you put them in front of the television and you played a couple of the best episodes, they'd be hooked on it and they'd binge watch it. John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, Rad Cabs or Sunset, Knapp Arcade, David Van Es, Bally Williams, John Popadiuk, © 2002 говорилsinthehood.com everybody likeYou Can Add Me to Your Quiz by aberr Zakไป링 hpא nozzle John Popadiuk, Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, INDISC, Scott Danesi.

The game features a 'double super skill shot' mechanic where holding both flipper buttons feeds the ball to a trap door (Grandpa scoop) and the lower playfield.

high confidence · Dwight Sullivan: 'Double super skill shot is if you hold in both flipper buttons, the ball will come all the way around, feed the bottom left flipper... into the trap door where you normally feed the ball for the lower playfield.'

  • The design team recorded or acquired voice work from the original Munsters actors, with Michael Haney (the actor playing Herman) providing performances beyond what was originally captured.

    medium confidence · Jerry Thompson: 'Michael did a great job capturing him... When he did his shtick, he would take breaks and then while he was taking breaks, instead of just resting his voice, he was doing Johnny Carson. Better than Johnny Carson.'

  • The game is feature-based rather than mode-based, with seven character areas on the playfield but only five needed to reach wizard mode.

    high confidence · Dwight Sullivan: 'I call them areas now just to make it different. They're not modes, it's not a mode-based game, it's a feature-based game... There's seven total but you only need five to make the wizard mode.'

    • Ken Cromwell (host) @ discussing nested playfields — Poetic description of the innovative dual-playfield architecture.

  • “How cool is it to be able to hold a ball on the lower playfield, cradle a ball, and make shots on the top while you're holding that ball there. Or vice versa.”

    Dwight Sullivan @ four-flipper discussion — Articulates the core gameplay innovation enabled by four flippers: simultaneous multiball on both playfields.

  • “I remember when we left that house, you were speechless kind of the rest of the night, and you could tell your wheels were spinning, Dwight.”

    John Borg @ Haunted House inspiration discussion — Captures the moment the dual-playfield concept crystallized for the design team.

  • “I would say it's easy to understand and easy to approach for a newbie, but enough, deep enough for somebody who's going to play it in their basement for a long”

    Dwight Sullivan @ final comparison — Summarizes the design goal: accessible entry point with sufficient depth for sustained play.

    • Munsters
    game
    Haunted Housegame
    George Sternperson
    Ken Cromwellperson
    Bill Webbperson
    Joe Kaminkowperson
    Special When Litorganization
    Elliotperson
    Star Warsgame
    T2 / Terminator 2game
    Batman (1960s TV show)product
    Aerosmithgame
    Metallicagame
    Walking Deadgame
    Iron Mangame
    Data East Batmangame
    Family Guy (Stewie)game
    Michael Haneyperson
    Gail Cohenperson

    high · Dwight Sullivan: 'I want it you have some time... 10 seconds to shoot the skill shot'; final claim: 'easy to understand and easy to approach for a newbie, but enough, deep enough for somebody who's going to play it in their basement.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Stern mixed design teams for Munsters; John Borg and Dwight Sullivan hadn't worked together since Sharky Shootout (1999); first collaboration between Borg and Thompson as sound engineer.

    high · John Borg: 'Dwight and I haven't worked on a game since Sharky Shootout, and I think that was 1999.'; Jerry Thompson: 'my first game with John.'

  • ?

    content_signal: Special When Lit Podcast conducted exclusive roundtable with full Munsters development team (designer, programmer, artist, sound engineer) described as 'possibly a first in pinball podcasting history.'

    high · Ken Cromwell: 'exclusive content that may be a first in pinball podcasting history'; roundtable with all four core team members.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Game eliminates standard ball save at start to create volatility (inspired by vintage pinball that drew Dwight into the hobby) while keeping features accessible early in gameplay.

    high · Dwight Sullivan: 'Munsters doesn't have a ball save at the beginning... Game is designed with no ball save in mind... volatility... brought me into pinball was volatility.'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Standard Stern cabinet required modification for four-flipper design; initial pushback due to extra two button holes in cabinet. Resolved with fixtures for unused holes on non-Munsters games.

    high · Dwight Sullivan: 'our cabinet is standard... we're going to have cabinets with four holes... I got a little pushback... bring the cabinets in with two holes. We'll fixture the other two.'

  • ?

    industry_signal: Artist Christopher Franchi reports ongoing issues with stolen artwork used on unlicensed merchandise; notes seeing his Creature from Black Lagoon art on shirts without permission or compensation.

    high · Christopher Franchi: 'they steal my art so much... I might as well get something back even though I have to pay for it... just today I saw a Creature from the Black Lagoon artwork on a shirt. There's nothing we can do.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Development team recorded original voice actor performances (Michael Haney as Herman, Gail Cohen as Marilyn) beyond material originally captured; actor improvised additional content (Johnny Carson impression) during sessions.

    medium · Jerry Thompson: 'Michael did a great job capturing him... When he did his shtick... instead of resting his voice, he was doing Johnny Carson. Better than Johnny Carson.'

  • ?

    content_signal: Designer extensively researched source material: John Borg DVR'd both Munsters seasons multiple times, logged timestamps and scenes (60+ scenes catalogued, potential for 200); team watched episodes to source voice clips and comedy moments.

    high · John Borg: 'I DVR'd the show for a couple years... I watched both seasons two or three times through... I started logging timestamps... over like 60, over 60 scenes in the match, but there could be 200.'

    • 13:45
    John was a doctor in some of these episodes and it's just so funny and Michael did a great job capturing him and then Gail Cohen is the voice of Marilyn and I think she did a really good job nailing that innocent, concerned voice. The Voice Michael is stunning. He's amazing. When he did his shtick, he would take breaks and
    14:14
    then while he was taking breaks, instead of just resting his voice, he was doing Johnny Carson. Better than Johnny Carson. And Mr. Haney. Oh man, he's good. I'm trying to get him into the CES show. I've been talking to Jody all John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, Rad Cabs or Sunset Pinball Podcast, INDISC, Scott Danesi. We went to the live call out of a raven that we might hear in the game John or maybe something that you want to go ahead and throw together quickly? You got it Charlie. Let's see, gosh I've got a bunch of them on my phone I can play some of them. I don't know if I, I'd be working on the character. No, no, just do one. Let's see. He's going to get into character. Right. Jerry, listen. I've got to get into character. Look how Dwight is going to shit on your head. Hold on a second. Let me look. It's not the first time. Raven is a bird. I'm going to look at my face. While John is looking for something. Oh, come on. Let's do one of the really long ones though. Hickory dickory dock. He can't tell a bomb from a cuckoo clock. Rah! Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that's nice. There you go. I know what my new ringtone is going to be. Chris, was this the first time that you had done any artwork with monsters? I know that you've done a lot of them. There it goes. I know what my new ringtone's gonna be. Chris, was this the first time that you had done any artwork with Munsters? I know that we see your artwork everywhere and it's iconic. Munsters, was this something that you had ever done before? John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, rad cabs or side art panels on cabinet, John Popadiuk, Bowen Kerins, Laser Los, Mirco Playfields, John, do you remember the feeling or the day that you were told, hey, this theme that you've been wanting for a long time, we actually have it and you're going to be working on it? Yeah, I pitched it and then Joe Kaminkow from Kapow came in and he said, he talked to the guys and he said, hey, I've got this license for the monsters and you guys interested in it? And they were like, yeah, Borg's been talking about that. Let's do it. And I was like, you know, yes. Oh, God. And then they said, you're working with Franchi and he's like, God damn it, mixing up the teams. Well, I was excited because it's a theme that I love and it's my first game with John. It's my third game with Dwight, my third game with Franchi, but my first game with John. And I did Batman and Beatles and so I love this whole 60s genre and it was, you know, I like incorporating some of the old EM sounds and, you know, my goal making a sound package John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, rad cabs or side art panels on cabinet, John Placid, Stanley Kruzinski, John Placid, I'm making games with a team and talking about things and working on them and sharing ideas. I mean it's a fun process to bounce things off each other and have it turn out well. So I'm excited about how this turned out and that it's different from even though I was working on them at the same time, it's different than Beatles. They're similar era but they don't sound the same. I mean well Chris and I did Beatles together so I mean wouldn't you say that Chris? I don't, you don't, you don't know that they're, you know, they don't sound the same even though they're same era. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's, it's two different things completely. But I tried to use, like, you know, Batman is different. I mean, monsters is more comical. And so, you know, there's things like slide whistle and just, you know, goofy like timpani bounces and stuff like that when you hit Herman and, and that, that's the fun of it. You know, I mean, you can do so many fun things with the theme because it was so out there. And so I'm excited for everybody to get to play it. Well, that was a difference. That's the difference between the two shows, Jerry, is that like the monsters was, you know, intent, you know, you're supposed to be laughing and funny and all that. Batman was only funny because they took it seriously and it was so ridiculous. So you couldn't really have a lap track or anything hokey on that one because the humor is in the fact that they're trying to present it so seriously. John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, Rad Cabs or Plastic Pinball Podcast,
    20:04
    How does all that make sense? And I know your teams go beyond the four of you. Much. And I can appreciate that, but can we just take a couple minutes and just kind of put it in perspective on how this kind of all comes to work together? Yeah, it was pretty easy actually. You know, Herman, you have to have Herman in your game. So we wanted to do something interesting with Herman. You know, we planned out several different things and ended up with what you saw today. We did a mechanism for the cuckoo clock. We knew for sure that we were going to have spot coming out from underneath the stairs. You know, so that was just a must. And we just started throwing some ideas together and it was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, got to do that, got to do that, got to do that. And I just started working on a layout and Dwight and I started, you know, talking rules and, you know, pushing inserts around and, you know, working with the electrical department on light boards and cables. We'll be right back. John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, Rad Cabs or Spinning Out Pinball Podcast,
    21:56
    Franky and I did most of our work at 3 or 4 in the morning. I actually worked so hard on the scripting for this that I actually had pneumonia last summer and I would sleep during the day a little bit. I would take an Advil to go to work for a few hours and then I would come home and then I would sleep and then I would wake up at 4 o'clock in the morning. Franky just went crazy on the artwork. He was just putting all kinds of characters and icons in the game. I think one night we talked about putting Eddie with the big mousetrap up in the orbit lane and I write Franchi at 4 o'clock in the morning and then all of a sudden I'm thinking, you know, he's sleeping now, he's going to get up and see this at 8 or 9 o'clock in the morning and he's going to write me back and all of a sudden I see him typing, you know, and I'm like, and then boom, an answer comes back and then I wake up in the morning and I look at my computer and there's the artwork that we talked about and it's in, it's there already. Oh wow, it's implemented. You know, so everybody works really hard. None of us sleep, John. No, yeah, we have sleep, what's that? Well, I know from personal experience, Dwight, you're not sleeping all that much either these days. No, I've been putting in quite a few hours the last couple of months or so. Yeah. That's one thing I got to say. I didn't realize until I started working on games how big a factor the code guy is and the rules designer and stuff like that and how hard ... I mean, there are so many people that work on a game for a year. I mean, you got a dozen guys in an art room, you know, and I mean, and Dwight's working six days a week, 12, 14 hour days. I mean, it, it's a lot of work and I mean, it's great when it's well received and, and we're really, all of us are excited that everybody likes it and, and you know, appreciate the hard work. Yep. And then Elliot, our mechanical engineer, he is just amazing. Um, you know, we, we worked really hard and we, we put this thing together that could have probably been a super duper duper Ellie. ____ upstairs 30 guy 30 kid Pinball Hall of Famer Pinball Hall of Famer now Steve made sure that he got in this year Took me 20 years to get in He got in right away Yeah, he's great. We really enjoy working with him. He's just a really nice guy to work with, and he just, he goes, he really goes. He gets it done. He's really good. How would you say that this machine, John, as far as the design elements, how do they What do they compare and how do they contrast in comparison to your prior pins that you've designed? Wow, that's a tough question. You know, some of them, you know, like, some of them I don't get as much time to work on as others. You know, Metallica I had a pretty decent time frame to work on. Walking Dead 2, Iron Man, you know, we did in like four months. And that turned out to be a pretty good game. You know, it had a really good rule set. I had a lot of stuff on it. When people saw it, they thought it was kind of empty at first, but then when they played it, they were like, wow, this is fun. You know, and it's really hard. I see all different kinds of guys design games in different ways, you know, like, you know, Dennis Norton works with a, you know, he starts out with a foam core model. You know, some guys just draw a couple lines and circles and do a napkin sketch and a mechanical engineer takes it over. You know, I came up as a mechanical engineer, so I do a lot of mechanical work and I do a really good clean layout and I try to make it as easy for my team as possible to work on it. So are you working more with CAD off the bat? Yeah, right off the bat. I go right into the CAD drawing. So I don't do sketches first or anything, I just go right into the CAD model because that's what's real. I can sketch stuff on an 8.5 by 11 piece of paper, but you've got to make it real. I mentioned in CAD, visually, you can kind of see what looks like it works, but then you still have to test the physics, right? Yep, oh yeah. Is that where your whitewood comes in, or is there a virtual aspect to that? Try not to make a shot that's going to rattle or be rejected, or don't make a shot too hard or make it too easy.
    25:57
    Just make a shot that's going to work, and when the ball goes around it, it's not going to rattle and clunk. If you hit that shot a little to the left or the right, you just got to work with the geometry. John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, Rayday Pinball Podcast, That was a hail Mary and you know I laid that game out and I did a couple tweaks to flat rails and stuff like that but that was pretty much how it was from the get-go from like first whitewood and I see some guys that do three or four whitewoods before you know they're happy with what they've you know what they've got before production so it's it's a it's a mad rush from the start to the finish no matter how many whitewoods you get to do or you know or whatnot or how much time you get you know if I get a year I'm crunching at the end and if I get six months I'm crunching at the end. When you were planning out this vision in your head, how did the lower playfield come into the equation? I was going to do a lower playfield on Aerosmith, and I didn't have time and I was working on an upper playfield concept, too. So we went with the upper playfield because we were kind of running out of time.
    27:12
    It was actually going to be rats in the cellar. And when I got the Munsters project, I'm like, this is going to be Grandpa's cellar. And, you know, so, you know, there you have it. It's really nice to play down there because it feels like a big game because of the little ball and the little flippers, you know, and the little components. It's, you know, the shots are longer. There's not a whole lot you can do down there. You gotta have some room for some lights and some artwork too. So, there's only so much room, there's only so much real estate on a pinball machine. And it flips really good. It flips... It does. I mean, I don't know Stewie that well, but I think it flips better than Stewie. We even did it. From my mind's eye. You're referring to... Yeah. I think because everything's miniaturized just like Stewie, but I think something about it is much better. It's easier to shoot. It's got more fun things to do from my limited memory. Well, yeah. I mean it's a full featured pinball game. Yeah. A pinball within a pinball. It's a world under glass under a world under glass. Under a world under plastic. Right. Well, in that mini playfield, you've got a multiball that starts down there. You've got like it looks like a little loop down there, a little kick out. I was a little hesitant to do that and Dwight really wanted it and you know and then because we can stop the ball and we can really not yeah Elliot really wanted it and I was like well let's try it and Elliot made a little trough that kind of came up and it kicked the ball over to the right and shot it out of the playfield but it's kind of claustrophobic there so it's like bouncing off a post and coming back at you right away and I go you know what I go we can make this thing simpler and cheaper by just kicking it up the middle and just you know putting a little diverter on it to kind of you know shoot it off to the side a little bit so it doesn't go We're off to the races and we tried it out. We got sampling. We tried it out and it works great. Yeah, as soon as I learned that we're going to do multiball down there, I'm like, well, that's staying. That's a feature that's staying in the game because that's going to be lots of fun. Are the balls the same size as they are in Stewie, Family Guy? I don't remember what size they used, but I went with a 5-1-inch ball. I think it's 5 8ths. We tried a ball that was a little bit bigger. I think it was a 593 diameter ball and a 5 8ths is a 625. We went a little smaller and we went a little larger. And I spent some time playing with the power of the flippers. So it feels good. The ball, like in the beginning, the ball would teleport. Like you'd flip and the ball would teleport around and bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. And it was no fun. It wasn't pinball. Yeah, it was too... Yeah, so I backed it off, backed it off, backed it off until I think it really now feels like pinball. It does, yeah, you're right. And that's one difference that's different than Stewie. I mean, this shoots like you're shooting a really standalone pinball machine. It doesn't feel like a gimmick. It feels like it's implemented well. And there's an easy to learn goal to do down there and then multiball that starts and mystery Buraff Walters acquiring new
    30:37
    Gods境 DuCốc A flipper and and at that point in time you can shoot the right ramp and the right ramp will give you a skill shot so then I started I got I implemented that and and then it became clear well what happens if I push in both buttons on the side like well instantly I'm I realize that's called that's double super skill shot so so double super skill shot the now you have now you so skill shot already you had 10 seconds to do skill shot because I don't like like the first switch you hit kills your skill shot or whatever I want it to be you know I want it you have some time so So you have 10 seconds to shoot the skill shot. So now double super skill shot is if you hold in both flipper buttons, the ball will come all the way around, feed the bottom left flipper, and then if you shoot it into the trap door where you normally feed the ball for the lower play field. Yeah, grandpa scoop. Grandpa scoop, right? The ball will kick out on the lower play field and the pop, the ball popper. The ball popper shoots the ball out. The people over at Data East call it a Vuck. So the Vuck. Up kicker. If you shoot the up kicker within your remaining time, you know, you get a double super skill shot. Wow, that's awesome. Yeah. It's fun and it's obtainable. It's easy. It's not really too hard. You just have to catch the ball. The best thing to do is plunge the ball around, catch the ball on the left flipper, shoot the scoop and then, you know, and then you just work on the bottom. Yeah. And if you, right. On the bottom playfield. If you, so you have 10 seconds or if you shoot any of the other shots that would have been a skill shot, there's like four total or if you like shoot Herman and start a hurry up connect 97th ou r post In comparison to your last couple games. It's, it's, um, it changed drastically. How so? So, um, so Star Wars is, is an epic game. And I, I love Star Wars. I love complex games. I love the movie multiplier. I love tons of things about Star Wars. But, um, um, since, you know, since, since I started working for George, George has been pounding into me, Dwight, you need to do T2 again. Because T2 is one of George's favorite games. And he's like, it has a simple little set of rules and it's fun and it doesn't get, and that's all you really need. You need a simple little set of rules and fun. So early on, I talked to John about making Munsters a simpler game, pulling back and getting rid of ball save. So that's another part of this equation is Munsters doesn't have a ball save at the beginning of each ball. It has a ball save when you start Herman Multiball. The game is designed from the beginning with no ball save in mind. It's designed so that all of the features and multiballs and stuff are closer to the start button. But if you have a bad ball, you're going to have a house ball and try again. So it's going to be a volatile game. And that's kind of like the pinball that brought me into pinball was volatility. So I like games that beat you up, beat you up, beat you up and then you have a great game and you remember that great game even though – so we wanted to do that. Once you talk about the four flipper buttons while you're talking about stuff. Four flipper buttons. So this is early on, right? So this is like again, so two Octobers ago we started talking about the game and then I'm at our friend's house. I'm at our friend's house playing Haunted House and I'm like two, four flipper buttons, two, you know, Haunted House has two flipper buttons. And I'm, and John and I are just, you know, jonesing over this. We know we're going to have a lower play field. We know we're going to have four flippers. This is coming full circle now because I remember you saying that you had an element that piqued your curiosity on Haunted House. Yeah, this is it. I'm at our friend Joe's house just down the street from here and I'm playing Haunted House in his basement and I text and I'm like, holy crap, I have like an epiphany and I text John, right? I take a picture of the game like I don't think anybody saw me. I take a picture of the game and I send the picture. I took a picture of you taking a picture of the game. You did not. Shut up. Okay. And I sent it to John and I said, John, John, we got to do this and John was completely on board. We had to sell the execs. Yeah, how cool is it to be able to hold a ball on the lower playfield, cradle a ball, and make shots on the top while you're holding that ball there. Or vice versa. Yeah. It's crazy. You know, you just have to do it. It's crazy. I remember I got a little pushback from that because our cabinet is standard. So, you know, if we go and make a bunch of cabinets and then we stop making monsters, we're going to have cabinets with four holes in them. Oh, okay. And got a little pushback in the beginning and I was like, I put so many holes in this game. It's a hole. You know, I don't care. You know, bring the cabinets in with two holes. We'll fixture the other two or something. I go, we need four holes. You know, got to have four holes. So, you know, that all worked out great. It's fun. And it played well on the stream. It was exciting. Yeah. And hey, Chris, what did your daughter think of playing multiball on both playfields? Well, she's kind of new to pinball. She's been playing. I've had a Data East Batman for 10, 15 years. Calládこう Cquirク, I don't even know, always remember that I don't remember the name of the show I saw until this year it was the Idiots You Can Take the Jeff Wow, that's cool. Yep, I remember that. I was there too, in Dwight's office. Yeah. Yeah, she absolutely loves it, so I'm sure she can't wait until I get one. But that's cool because I won't buy her one and she'll have to come visit me because she's 24, she's out on her own. You know, so she- Yeah, Franchi Household's filling up with pinball machines lately. Oh, God. You want to hear something funny? I have to get rid of my dinette set so that I can actually turn my dining room into a partial arcade because I don't have any more room. He's single, ladies. He's a single man. We have to make a game with a couch that folds out of it. Yeah, there you go, exactly. That would be awesome. Well, going back, I remember that night that we played that haunted house, and I remember when we left that house, you were speechless kind of the rest of the night, and you could tell your wheels were spinning, Dwight. Yeah. I'll never forget that either. I mean, that was just something. It was clear to me that it needed to be done in our game, and I wanted to, I was starting to think about all the things we could do with it, you know, and we have now done with it, and it was pretty cool. Are you thinking with this code now, is it lesser in complexity or is it any less deep? What kind of change would you say kind of sums it up? It's hard to apples and oranges like that. It's not epic like Star Wars, but it has a whole different kind of vibe to it. It's not a journey that you're going to travel on and you're going to spend forever working toward. It's got all these fun little areas to do and when you do them all then you can play a wizard mode and then that's level one and then when you do them all again you can play another wizard mode and that would be level two and it's got more, it's different. I call them areas now just to make it different. They're not modes, it's not a mode-based game, it's a feature-based game. You hit Lily and start like a frenzy and you can couple that with Herman Multiball but Herman multiball, you know, only gets you there after you, you know, you light Herman and then do a hurry up and then do another hurry up and knock the ball off the magnet and it's all these little areas that you play around the playfield and like each, each character in the show has a different little area. There's seven total but you only need five to make the wizard mode. I would say it's easy to understand and easy to approach for a newbie, but enough, deep enough for somebody who's going to play it in their basement for a long time. You know, I mean, there's depth to it, but it's not, it's easy to understand would be how I would describe it to somebody. Yeah, and stuff happens right away. Herman's really easy to obtain right away, and then, you know, Gary was playing the game, and he had to, you know, he had to, it took him a little while to shoot a couple of ramps to get spots. So he said, you know what, after you shoot the left ramp, open up spot, bring spot out, you know, let them shoot spot once. It was a good idea. And even in the attract mode, you know, like when I was working on Iron Man, Gary said, you know, when the game is over, leave the monger up so that they can see that it's there. And then when they push the start button, it goes down. You know, so Gary wanted to have, you know, spot showing, you know, so sometimes the coil energize during attract mode and show you spot. So you know that something's there. So now because of Gary, it's a nice addition to the game. All throughout the track mode, Spot comes up and looks at you for 20 seconds or so and then goes back down every 10 minutes or so throughout the track mode. And also if you hit the flipper button, he'll come back up and Marilyn will talk to you about Spot. Hey Chris? Yes. Question for you, buddy. Answer for you, buddy. All right. You petting your dog over there or what's going on? Yeah, how's Barlow? I was just staring at the screen and watching all the sound waves go by. Ah, see? So every single one of your art packages that you put together for Stern Pinball has been a tremendous hit with the pinball community, pinball enthusiast collectors. Question I have for you, on Munsters, when you knew you finished, how excited were you in comparison to these other releases to show the world what you had completed? I was just talking to somebody about this the other day and I said it was, you know, like Batman, Batman TV shows my jam. That's my thing. So that was my first job and, you know, so in a sense I'm working on my dream team, my first job. And I didn't think anything would ever top that. But when I worked on, you know, well I guess I got to go, quickly go through the process. When I did Batman I didn't do the play field. I only did the characters on the play field. The play field was done by Kevin O'Connor. So when I did Guardians that was my first play field. Our at can't wait to see ya on the next Market to Market, hey let's get into it. So I got it, but it was just like, okay, now it's my job to fill this up. I like how I played hockey meant I played pinball. Yeah, I don't know how I didn't forget that. Everyone should know that. Like I played hockey. Yeah, because there's pinball. Don't you get it? I played hockey. Right. Duh. Flipper sticks. Whatever works. So coming around to the Munsters, there was a lot of, when I did Guardians, I was basically illustrating photos that were provided by Marvel. When I got to the Munsters, there were such limited assets and they were such poor quality that it actually gave me an opportunity to do whatever I wanted. I didn't have to draw Herman in this pose or that pose. I could do them however I wanted because there really wasn't a whole lot to go off of. That being said, it was really exciting to be able to do that and then at the same time there were two different playfields because two of them had the lower playfield and one of them didn't. So, you know, I got to basically mix things up a bit and that was the first time I was able to really do that too. So it's easily, so far anyway, my favorite playfield because, you know, there's a lot of freedom involved in doing that. And, you know, I remember going in and discussing things. I think it was the first time actually that I got to actually go in and sit down with John and sit down with Dwight and discuss, you know, the rules of the game and, you know, I'm looking at a schematic that just has a bunch of inserts all over it and I'm like, okay, well now it's my job to fill this up and make it look good. So I was able to discuss primarily with Dwight what the rules were going to be and what was going to happen and I'm just drawing all over this thing and making notes and scribbles and all that. Yeah, it was awesome you coming. That was the day I learned you live in Michigan. Even if you live in Michigan, next time we work on a game, we need you to come to work more often. Yeah. So, that was a good day. It was very helpful, yeah. Yeah, and, you know, it just, you know, solidifies things I get in your headspace and, you know, in John's headspace and, you know, so I think, you know, it allows me to execute what I have to do and feel comfortable that I know that, you know, everyone's going to be happy with it, you know, they're not going to come back and go, well, you did this thing and I don't know why you did it but it doesn't fit with this, you know, we didn't have any problems at all, it was, you know, putting things together. I was in the middle of watching those 70 episodes like every day. Like so I want I'd when I met you we you know I'd seen all 70 episodes like three times and I couldn't remember ever there being a dog bone but I didn't know I was wrong or right or you know but I just like hey is there a dog bone in the game I mean in the show? Oh you were you were right there was all they ever did was throw him a big can of food. The big can the great big giant. Or the table like the table when it broke up like they threw out that out to him and stuff like that. Yeah, and that's basically what I worked off of. I changed the, you know, it was like a bowl with a big bone sticking out of it and I turned it into a, you know, a table, a wooden, you know, ornate wooden table leg that's got a big bunch of bite marks in it and stuff. Bite marks, yep. Yeah. Well, and there was an exciting moment today too when we saw the reveal at the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas where Stern Pinball now has implemented a black and white play field on their premium model. I don't know if you would like to comment a little bit about that. I mean, how did that whole thing go down? We pushed that. Yeah. We were really interested in doing a black and white game. And then Mike Nogle made a Twilight Zone, took a playfield, heated it up with a heat gun, pulled all the inserts out, found clear inserts. It took him a year to find all the inserts. He was having problems finding the lightning bolts at the end, he told me. And he said that somebody had some and they put them in an envelope and mailed them to him with a stamp on it. It took like three weeks before they arrived. He was scared to death they wasn't going to get these inserts. Probably could have routed them if they were lost in the mail. But that game, I went and saw that game and it's stunning. Yeah. But we were already in black and white mode when I saw that game and when I saw it finally with all the... Before we saw that game and even knew about it, we were already thinking about black and white. But at the time, it was like maybe the black and white LE or maybe we were going to do two LEs. We're just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what would stick. Chris, you're used to working in color, I assume. So then when this black and white idea comes down the pipeline, is this something you're immediately on board with in regards to creating this artwork? Or did you have to change anything as far as your approach? Yeah, I'm trying to think because I'm getting old. But I think I knew all along that we were going to have to do this. It wasn't a... Yeah, we were kicking around. Yeah, I was looking forward to it because I wanted to see how it would look. I wasn't looking forward to it because literally that file for the playfield has about 300 layers in it. And you can't, I mean you could just flatten all that artwork and convert it to black and white, but you'd be doing the artwork a huge disservice because like you know reds tend to come out really dark. So I had to basically go through each layer one at a time through 300 layers and adjust it from color to black and white. You know every little element you know one at a time so that was a it was a horrible task and it took me an entire day to do it but you know I knew what I was working towards and you know and that's what was really exciting was you know watching this thing slowly go you know from the bottom to the top you know from from color to black and white and see how everything worked out and you know tweaking everything to make sure that it works because you know there's so much going on in that playfield you can just convert it to black and white and go there You know it works You know you need separation between different characters between different elements and all that and some graphics It's a lot of work. Yeah, some of the text and all that had to stand out. So you really, you know, it was almost like kind of starting over. And it took a lot of time, but it was definitely well worth it. It's a beautiful game. I knew it was coming. I think it looks amazing. Like sometimes I just stare at it and I'm like, you know, I decide yet. I'm doing it. I heard all the L.A. sold out today. Oh, damn. Maybe I'll get a premium then. Yeah. I got in on an L.A. Yes.
    48:38
    See, and the difference with with the premium, too, is that it's just not a grayscale black and white playfield. There's tastefully placed color splashes on text on the inserts are full color. What was your favorite section, Irving, Brian Kieran, Sam Wang, and any other teams on copyright? I think Greg did a lot of that. Yeah, I think, and you're talking about Greg Freres, right? Greg Freres added a lot of the color text. Yeah, he said maybe, you know, some of these areas like where the the dragula is, you might want to leave some of that in color. He suggested leaving the bumper caps in color. So that was him and, you know, I liked all those ideas. There wasn't certainly anything I was going to argue about, you know, I think, you know, when you see the end result. No, yeah, I was arguing for like everything to be black and white, like even the logo and Gary, Gary wanted the logo to be green, you know, or not green. He didn't say green. He just like not black and white. And, you know, he didn't want 100% black and white. And he was right. Like, like, once again, Gary was right.
    49:53
    He's got a lot of pinball under his belt. I hate to admit that, but yeah. So when you guys actually see the black and white for the first time, you know, in a game, what are your guys' reactions? I'm buying one. Yeah, me too. I'm going to plug the Art Blades. If you buy a premium, you need the Art Premium Blades because the Art Premium Blades are also black and white and they just bring the whole thing home. We have some samples at work and I would just sort of put them there in the game and lay them there and I would just stare at the game for minutes. I think they're in the video, aren't they? The Blades? I don't know. Oh, okay. Then you should go, yeah, you can see in the video. And he's not lying. He really does stare at this stuff. Jerry's like, I watch him stare at machines in his office all day. That's why you're coming home so late, Dwight. Jerry stares at me staring at him. That's right. There's this vicious circle of staring going on at Stern. No, but I, all this sort of came together just before Expo, and I'm like, then I saw Chris at Expo, Chris, you need to see your game. It's amazing. I think it's Chris's best. Was that you that... You asked me like which one are you getting and I said, oh, I want to get the color one. You're like, you're going to want to see that black and white one. I'm telling you. Yeah, we were in the lobby. Right, we were in the lobby of Expo and I'm like, dude, you haven't seen the black and white one yet. You need to come see it right now. I think that's when you came and saw it with your daughter. Yeah. I have tons of pictures as I was working on prototypes. John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, Rayder K. Sheats Jr., Loser Kid Pinball Podcast, INDISC, Scott Danesi.
    51:58
    I'm going to be a premium if the LEs are sold out, but I like the color. I'm one of the, I think, five people in the whole building that, you know, I just, I like the rich purples and greens and, you know. Yeah, so let me... I will say, though, I have seen the black and white in person and it is stunning. I mean, it really, it pops. The cabinet with the green is great and it's, I mean, you can't go wrong with any of them. The pro is a great looking game too. Right. I think it's Chris Franchi's best work. That's, I'm going out there on a limb. I think so. But I think, like I like Guardians. I think that turned out great and this is way better. Wow. I think it's everybody's best work. If you do go premium, you definitely have to look at the side armor accessory for it Jerry, I wanted to go to you and talk about, I mean, the sound packages that you're putting into these machines right now are high octane, high energy, incredible. I mean, it adds so much to the overall experience of the machine, and you've got the ability as the sound engineer to really have such a big influence in the game. And I imagine, are you working with Dwight and with Jon on the sound packages? Are you, are you kind of going rogue or are, how does this all work?
    53:32
    Well, Dwight has ideas going in, um, and Jon has all seen. I mean, ever, you know, uh, I'm not going to going to say, Hey, no, I'm the sound guy. I'm not going to listen to you. I mean, I think you come out better when you collaborate and like Dwight's like, I think this should be, you know, zaps here, or I'm hearing this or like when we did 30. God dammit! He's like, don't you know what a thrum is? I can see you getting upset about that too, so. And just to be clear, just to be clear, I'm the point man with Jerry Goes, but like a lot of decisions happen, you know, with John and I, you know, we talk and then I go, okay, I think I know what John wants and I know what I want and I'm going to try and communicate that to Jerry. I'm more, yeah. Aren't you the laugh track idea guy? I am the laugh track idea guy. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, when I was on Danger's podcast... That's Dead Flip, Jack Danger's Pinball Streaming. Streaming, I'm sorry. No, you're good. This afternoon, somebody asked if the laugh track could be turned off, and I'm like, no. And you... There's always one. Yeah. And when you're playing it, like I was like so... So like two days ago, I was thinking it's like one of two sounds I'm about to ask Jerry To all our Latest hobbies and city fashion people we hope you are enjoying this interesting Ying Daniel reaction video and will help meidän senor and his team become more known for creating amazing feats and ideas! All on Amazon, Google Play, palabra食回答 Players Será och somnig errorcицă Utiliz firingunt când at growing uh bullet how it is born.
    55:22
    As a journalist and a show-rapper you have the initiative to communicate with the community I like to make, when I make a sound package, I imagine playing the game and I make things that I like and I hope for, you know, hope everyone else will like it too. And so far that's been successful. But I wanted to make it feel like you're playing the show. You know, I mean, I don't use any kind of spacey sounds or synthesizers or stuff like that because they weren't around then. So I want you to feel like you, you know, these elements could be in the sixties. So there's like, So, you're going to get some orchestral fanfares like you'd see on a show of the day, or EM sounds on the pop bumpers, or organ sounds because Lily on the Playfield has organ. So, you hear organ hits and... It's like an audio time capsule that you're putting into a machine. Yeah, right. And for music, I wanted it to also sound period appropriate. The Standells were on the show in one episode. I don't know if you remember them. I'm going to talk about a song called Dirty Water, and it was kind of like a grungy rock kind of sound, you know, maybe Who sound for the 60s and stuff like that, so there's some of that in the game because it's appropriate. I mean, when you're trying to hit spot, you need some rockin' music, but it's not current rock. I mean, it sounds like it could be a 60s garage rock band, you know, so stuff like that is my goal. I don't want to do anything that takes you out of, hey, I'm playing the Munsters from the 60s, you know. Same thing with Beatles and Batman and stuff like that. You know, I want you to feel immersed in the show because that's the kind of game I like to play. And from a creative approach, you are blending in, I would imagine, like original tracks and original sound effects to make it seem like they were originally in the show, right? Right. Okay. Yeah, and I mean, on the new speech, we, you know, for Batman, we had Adam West and Burt Ward record new tracks. Well, the quality of that stuff was much higher than the stuff in the show. And so I trashed it up with some processing to make it sound 50 years old so that they match better. And same thing with monsters. I mean, you know, I don't want to perfectly clean recording from 2018 mixed in with the monsters, you know, because again, that takes you out of the, the show. And so I try to make everything sound like it all lives together. And same thing with Star Wars, you know, trying to match new music with John Williams' original music. So, yeah, that's always my goal is to make the whole thing immersive. So I hope I continue to hit it on the head with this one. Today, everyone loved you. You did, yes, absolutely. Guys, the four of you guys are rock stars today. I mean, I'm honored to be sitting down here with two of you and have the other two on the phone. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, this is... You're still paying me, right? Yeah, pretty much. Depends on how long you stay. Right. But, I mean, I would assume it feels good. You finally see this game revealed to the world and just the reception that it got today. And here you are after hours and hours and weeks and months of labor, you're finally feeling the fruits of your labor. I mean, it's got to be such a sense of accomplishment. Are you on a high right now? Oh, absolutely. I'm running on adrenaline right now just from being up all night talking to people. Just a minute ago when John said yeah I've got pictures to put up on Facebook it hit me you know we can we can we can talk about this game now in and for the last few months we've kind of known it was gonna be a little bit special I mean people like to play it people thought it was fun and it was still like you know 80% done 90% done whatever right and and and you know now we can talk about it now we can it's a release right it's it's good it's kind of tough too because I mean all you guys all have friends in pinball I mean you hang out with people that are in pinball so to have to work on something John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, rad cabs or side art panels on cabinet, John Popadiuk, Bowen Kerins, Laser Los, Mirco Playfields, Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast, INDISC, Scott Danesi. John Host, What? How can your kids be almost twins? No, I said they're almost 16. Oh! I thought you said they're almost twins. He did. Well, it was a special miracle procedure. A couple days apart. No, he did, because I was going to ask the same thing. I'm like, what are almost twins? Well, you know, long distance breaking up here. One came out four days later. So, I imagine, like, you guys worked together for so long on this title, you had to have good days, you had to have bad days, days where everything seemed to gel, and days where David Van Es, Straight Down the Middle, Knapp Arcade, Straight Down the Middle, Knapp Arcade,
    61:06
    I'm on the phone and I'm talking to Dwight, and then I just said, I said, you know, I just went on a rant, and I started talking for about two minutes straight, and then all of a sudden I looked down at my phone and I didn't hear Dwight, and I go, Dwight, Dwight? And I'm like, are you there? And then I said my phone was dead, and I'm like, oh man, I'm in the middle of this growingly heated conversation with John, and I'm thinking, you know, it's our first fight, right? I got a call... Right. And I'm thinking, you know, you know, you know, f*** this because he just hung up on me. What the f***? He hung up on me. I can't believe it that asshole. So I go to my laptop and I open it up... And John doesn't even know his phone's off. Yeah I was talking for about 2 minutes after the phone probably died and then I go to my laptop and open it up and I'm going to send Dwight email while my phone's charging up and I'm going to say, hey, Dwight, I didn't hang up on you. My phone died. And there's an email from him already. He goes, did you hang up on me? I don't know what it was about. I don't remember. And I don't think we've fought since. No, no. Yeah, it was very, very smooth. It's been a great game. Yeah, and it's just a great title, a lot of fun, and we've been just throwing ideas back and forth all over the place. It was always pretty clear what we should do. Like, you have an idea, I have an idea, let's do that. Yeah. So you're working closely with Jerry. You and Jerry getting along there, Dwight? Like no problems, no problems? Every day. Yeah. Jerry and I get along great. Jerry is fast and good and I say, hey, I need this, this, and this, and this. Here's a list on Google. Like, I make Google Docs and then Jerry fills it all out and sends them to me and then I put them in the game and listen to them. And, you know, once in a while, they're like, hey, Jerry, this isn't really what I was thinking about. It needs to be more of a thrum. And then, you know, but most of the time he gets it right, like the first or second try, and then we move along. Yeah, as is Chris. I mean, it's pretty much we're pretty much on duty 24-7. Yeah. Chris, are you arguing remotely with anybody out there or you come in to Stern for your arguments? No, no, we didn't argue at all. It's a...
    63:22
    The experience on this game, I think it was different because, you know, I worked a little closer John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, Rayday Pinball Podcast, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, I don't know if you've seen the video but I put it up. I'm just going to look at them and decide which one I want. And I looked at these. When I saw the video it said the wire forms were sitting on the game and they were raw metal and they had black weld spots on them and all that. And I was looking at them and I was like John have you ever thought about putting these in here just like this? And it kind of looked at me like I had monkeys flying out of my butt and I'm like well look at them the raw metal with these black weld spots and it looks so monsters like this. If you took it and chrome plated it I don't think it would look as good. It would look too polished for this. The whole rest of the playfields like this grungy house with wood and rotted metal and all that. I'm like, I think it would look perfect and he looked at it and he goes, you know, you're right, yeah. That was a brilliant idea. Yeah. And a cost savings. They're just clear-coated. They're just clear-coated and we didn't have to plate them. We didn't have to coat them. Yeah. But I mean, that's the kind of atmosphere it was. I mean, I've got nothing to do with wire forms but from a visual standpoint, I saw an idea there and threw it out there and they think it's a good idea, they'll run with it and So I got no... That's exactly why I want you to be at Stern more often, Chris, is because stuff like that happens. I would... it's only a four-hour drive. No, I know, but next time, next time. It is fun to collaborate, though, and like you say, you end up with better results. I mean, I loved collaborating with George on Deadpool. I mean, George is full of ideas, I mean, you know, and when you get in a room with somebody and you start saying, Oh, this would be funny. And, you know, Tanyo gets in and I mean, it's, it's fun to bounce things off and it makes a better game. And plus, I mean, what, what the difference is, I think is, you know, we're all into the theme and we're buying games. I mean, we're not just making widgets and shipping them out in a box. I mean, we're making something that all of us want to stand in front of for 20 years and play and go, I, man, I'm proud of this. You know what I mean? We're putting the cash down and wanting this to be in our homes. So I, and I always think I think of that too when I'm making a game, you know, I want the guy who's excited about this, unboxes it, plays it to think, man, I love this game, you know, I mean, it, you wanna, that's the thing, nobody ever sets out to make a movie or a game or music or anything, you know, without the best intentions and, you know, sometimes they work better than others but, I mean, I think, I think everybody nailed it on this one. Yeah, I agree. Let's talk a little bit about those that aren't here that contributed and had major roles in the game and just something that stands out to me immediately when I saw the reveal today were the animations on the screen were so fun and done so well. Amazing. If anybody wants to comment on how that went down and the team that was involved with doing that, I mean, it's incredible. That's the team that I sort of oversee. Chuck Ernst sort of heads up the art department, the non-static art department. Greg Farris would be the other, his counterpart. So Chuck has a whole team of people. We now have like what, about eight people sit back there and do games, do like two or three games at a time. At any given moment there's like three or four of them working on monsters and so it's a whole bunch of people and it's all name names, right? That's probably what I should do. So in no particular order, because I'll get it wrong, it's Chuck Ernst, it's Ernie Perez, Mark Galvez, Zach Stark. Those are the four main guys that were on. Danai? Oh, Danai was never really on the Munsters. And I probably missed somebody, but, oh, Alex did some work on it. Alex, what's his last name? Bohr. Alex Bohr. That's right. Yeah. So those are all the artists that were great. And then software engineers that helped. I mean, because it's like the four of us are really the most visible part of the team, but it's always like the team is gigantic, right? It's all those artists I just named plus the four of us plus, you know, the guys that I work with are also Rick and Wason, Rick Nagel and Wason Chang. They help me with the software. And then electrical department, you know, Chuck, Raina, Jim, Sherd. Jim's a big player too. Jim's, you know, he likes to participate in tournaments and whatnot and everybody's important. Simon laying out light boards, you know, there's always a lot of people that go into making a pinball machine. How many people on average at this point at Stern do you think are collaborating to put forth a title? At different levels? Everyone we just named, so 10, 15? So 20 people potentially? Yeah. So, I looked at my session the other day and the first Munsters work I did was dated February 15th, 2018. So almost a year and you know, the guys were starting with play fields and rules thoughts and stuff before that and so, I mean, that's one thing, you know, you, pinball is a lot of people and a lot of hours and that's what some people just think, oh, it's easy to make a pinball machine. But not really. I mean, it's a year and a lot of people. Yeah. And I imagine that, I mean, people are dropping in and out and working on other games as well. They're not just focused on one game per se, right? Right. I mean, you've got people that are on multiple games at the same time. So I mean, everybody in unison has got to be... Everyone but John and I are on multiple games. Yeah. Okay. Elliot is mostly on our game. So me, John, and Elliot are the three people that are mostly on Munsters for most of the time. For most of the time. Yeah. www.indisciplespinball.com What would you say about Munster's pinball?
    70:02
    Mine would be the full featured lower playfield. I'd love to have that thing on my desk. It's so cool to have an upkicker, a ramp, orbits, a target, and two balls and dedicated flippers John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, rad cabs or side art panels on cabinet, John Placid, Larry Oursler, Bally Williams, I'm really curious to see how it's received. I mean, from what we saw, it looks incredible. And it's exciting to hear you excited about it, Jerry. I mean, for somebody that worked on the game and somebody that's been collecting for 20 years, for you to put that as a standout moment for a Munsters machine. Well, the first time I saw the game, I told Dwight, I walked in his office, I was like, okay, this is something you walk up to and you go, oh man, I gotta see what this does. I mean, it's just, it's a, you know, it really draws you in. I think, I think people are gonna, you know, when you have non-pinball friends over for a party, We'll see you next time. So it's a timed lower playfield. Correct. So you never have to worry about draining because you're on a timed component every single time. And you can shoot the right ramp and add back some time, a little bit of time. Okay. So you can extend the time but you're not necessarily losing time. Interesting. I like that. So I get all wrapped up in the possibilities of where I can blow up my score That a part of my job And then when I playing the game you know I start thinking about all that I start thinking well where you know what I want to overlap completely the fun things to do with this game with the fun scoring things to do And if they're completely aligned, I think then I've done my job.
    72:11
    But I have to admit, I have to be honest, like when I play it and I'm really sort of in the zone, it's because I'm flipping the game. I have multiball going and like I'm not that great right but but I have a multiball going and and every single shot that comes back to the flipper goes away and goes up around and comes back around and sometimes I got like it's extremely satisfying to like put two balls up the same ramp and then and then one over on the right ramp and then one around the orbit and and that's relatively easy to do on this game and I just get lost in the zone at that point. Do the multipliers play as significant of a role in scoring in this game as they did in Star Wars? No, they're not as significant. They're still pretty interesting, but they're not as significant. Would you consider this to be a pretty good tournament game? That's a great question. I consider every game I do to be a great tournament game, and then I learned later that I was wrong. So I'm not a good judge there. I got to tell you though that Keith Elwin and Tim and Zach play the game and they seem to like it. So maybe that's a possibility. That's got to be huge to have that as your test market so to speak. It is huge. Hey Chris, so you've got an LE that will be coming. What's your favorite part about the LE package that you have that will be arriving? The color. Yeah? That's why I went with the LE because I wanted the color. I'm in Jerry's house on that one. My favorite, well, it's a toss up between, actually the same thing Jerry said, I think the lower playfield is so much fun. I remember, I played that, they had it rigged up like on this little, what do they call that thing? Like a little rotisserie? Oh, it was, I don't think it was even. Yeah, we had the thing set. Was it on a rotisserie? We had it set on standoffs and we had flipper buttons. Yeah, we're just sitting on a countertop and I had these like buttons way off at the side that I was like triggering and all that. I'm just going nuts on this. Yeah, this is when you, right, this is your first visit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had the little lower playfield by itself. It wasn't in a game yet. Right. Just sort of sitting on the countertop in our lab connected to a coil, connected to power and you could flip it. You could, you know, and that's when we knew something was cool there. Yeah, it was just, it was really fun and, you know, really unique. I mean, I like the whole game but that, you know, that stands out and John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, Rayday Pinball Podcast, Knapp Arcade, Bally Williams, I mean, anybody who gets a pro is going to be happy with it because it's a smooth shooter. It doesn't feel like anything's missing. I mean, I think you did a really good job, John, of making two different games that both play well. I'm so happy you brought that up because for those that maybe a premium or an LE is not an option, I mean, pro models, Sterns, have always been solid players and fun machines. Is there any other significant difference that you can think of off the top of your There's a lot of hidden undertones, whether it be in artwork or in code or you know something Playfield or something that was done that somebody didn't know a story behind. Is there anything that either of you or you would be able to share in regards to maybe in some little hidden messages or Hidden hidden homage being paid to something. I'll go last but I think somebody else might go for it. Chris
    76:04
    Yeah, there's a- I put a few in the artwork Now I know you can't reveal them all Christopher because I know for a fact that your Easter eggs seem to come in waves Each 500cribing a Margins and Sincere Commendations Todo Negstoffe An So, you know, Herman Munster and Lily Munster, a little, like something you'd carve in a tree. It's very cool. It's cool. It's just a little thing, you know, if, I don't know if anybody ever see it, because there's not really any reason to pull that ramp off, but it's still there. But actually, in the artwork, my favorite Easter egg, and there are a few others, of course, everyone's going to be looking for the hexagon. Where's the hexagon? I'm going to tell you right now, there are literally probably at least a hundred of them in this game. Wow. What's up with that? What's up with the hexagons?
    77:34
    You can see spot there and he's got his tail wrapped around a can of food, this giant, you know, can of spot food. And the expiration date on the bottom of the can is the date of the last episode that aired for the Munsters. So in a sense it was the Munsters expiration date. That's cool. Ah, yeah, I like that. So, and there's other things but we'll let people find them. There's a very personal one for Joe Kaminkow in there. Mm-hmm. I won't reveal that. Let people see if they can find that one. The one for Joe? Yeah. I bet you they won't. You got to turn your head sideways. There's a little tip. Oh, there's a lot of them who do. There's a tip. Yeah. It's a very webby Easter egg. I'm going to be rotating all the pictures 90 degrees now on the Playfield pics. It's a very webby Easter egg, shall we say. So I'm adding an Easter egg. I'm adding Secret Mania to the game. Secret Mania is a mode that I haven't done in a long time. I think it's in Getaway, right? It's in Whodunit. Yeah. It's in Roadshow. And I don't know if it's in any other games. I don't think it is. Yeah. Getaway, it's two up and then one down, I think. What are we talking about here, guys? Yeah, with the three squad cars. So there's a Secret Mode in at least three games. Yep. Secret Mania, Arm, Getaway, Roadshow, and Whodunit all have it. And maybe one more, but there will be a Secret Mania in Munsters. I don't think John knows about it. There will be a Secret Mania in Munsters. It's already underway and I'm not going to reveal how to get to it, but it's going to be findable. So it's like a hidden mode within the game? It's a hidden Easter egg mode within the game. That's cool. That is pretty cool. Do you have a Midnight Madness on Munsters? I'm not sure yet. Oh, okay. I do know. No, that's not true. I do know. I do know about Midnight Madness, but I'm not. Can't confirm or deny. Correct, exactly. Okay. We need like a happy hour pinball. I said, can we do a flipper code where, you know, you do the flipper thing and that picture of me choking Borg appears on the screen for like three seconds and then explodes? And vice versa. I can do that tomorrow if you just give me, I just need the MP4. I'll be choking Chris at the Texas Pinball Festival this year. Chris, email me and I will put anything you want in the game. Wow. All right, so it was really fun to see, again, the reveal today at the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas. Now, where are we going to see this pin in the future shows? I imagine there's plans for TPF, right? There's promotion there. Yep. You guys, we're all going to TPF, correct? Everybody that's on here? All six of us, yeah. Yeah, we'll be there. So that'll be fun. Yeah. Yeah, actually, I'm working with Ed on something very special with the Munsters for TPF that We couldn't really talk about until now that the game's officially been released. We're doing a VIP package. We're going to have a Munsters art print that's going to be signed by everybody, myself, John, Dwight, Butch Patrick, who played Eddie Munster, and Pat Priest, who played Marilyn. And then there's going to be some other stuff that Ed's still working out now, but that's going to be... They're going to do 64 of those, 64 special packages for people. So that's going to be pretty cool. I'm excited to do that. Mad Fientist Nice. You guys like doing the shows, right? I mean, for the most part, it gives you an opportunity to kind of sit down and connect with everybody that appreciates your work and your work's on display and it's like the one time – well, not the one time because there's multiple shows a year now. Pinball shows have – it seems like there's a new one every couple of weeks. Joe Kaminkow It's easy to go to three and not even scratch the surface. Mad Fientist You're right. I mean, flying to Texas for a pinball show is not anything I ever would have thought John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, rad cabs or side art panels on cabinet, John Placid, Larry Oursler, You know, and then we go back and we make that happen. And, you know, it'd be really cool if, you know, how come you don't do this? And how come you don't do that? I go, well, that's a good idea. And I go back and I talk about it. And sometimes, most of the time, it's like there's good reasons why we didn't do those things. And every once in a while, there's not. And we do it. We do it, you know, so it improves what we do. When you were all watching the Jack Danger stream of the game today, was there any feedback that was offered that you that you took into consideration on anything moving forward? Or I mean, was it? I enjoyed watching, you know, hours of people playing it and I, yeah, I made notes about things I want to adjust sound wise and things I want to do. So, I mean, it was, I, and yeah, it was nice seeing the nice comments, but I used it as a, as a chance to see things that, that caught my eye that I want to adjust. Yeah, my problem is, is I can't, you know, there's, you can't do an art upgrade. So hopefully they like it or not, but you know, Yeah, that's true. Perfection doesn't need to be messed with. Yeah, but you know what though? You know, as I say, you're only as good as your last game. So the next one's got to be better, you know? Yeah, you're setting the bar high, all of you guys, for your next release and moving forward. I mean, I know I imagine you always want to be better than your last game, but yeah, can I ask you all straight up and individually? And if you don't feel comfortable answering this, I understand, but I mean, John Borg, do you think this is your best game ever? I think it is. You know, I've had a lot of people tell me Metallica is my best game.
    83:14
    I think this one might be better. I mean, I'm going to wait and see. But, you know, I'm going forward on to the next one. You know, I'm shaking in my boots. Shaking in your boots. But, you know, I'm going to just, you know, go after, you know, full bore and we'll see what we can do. Full borg. That's what I'm going to do. Dwight, is this the best game that you've been a part of? It might be. I struggle with that. I don't know how to define that. I love Star Wars. I love Game of Thrones. I love Star Trek Next Generation. This game is very different than those. It's much more like T2, which is a great game. My part in it, I love quite a bit, but I still have rose-colored glasses on. I still got to see. I got to wait. And Chris, I think I heard you mention earlier that you think that this might be your favorite playfield. Yeah, yeah, the whole thing in general I think is definitely my best. I didn't have a ton of time on Batman, I had to throw those art packages together in about three weeks, so, you know, though that always has a special place in my heart, I think Guardians Blue that one away. And I think this one far exceeds what I've done on Guardians, at least from my own standpoint of you know, how I feel about it. And Jerry, the reception on your sound and audio today was unbelievable. I imagine you're gonna go home and sleep the sleep of the just tonight. Is this your favorite audio package?
    84:50
    Yeah, you know, Dwight and I talked about that recently, because I don't know about the other guys, but when you When I finish a game after working on it every day for a year, I kind of want to step away from it for a little while. So Ghostbusters has a special place for me because it was my first full sound package where I got to do everything. And I played it again recently at the factory and I told Dwight, I said, man, you know, that's still a strong package. And he said, I don't know, Munsters might be better. So that was a nice compliment because I think, you know, Ghostbusters is still a high bar. So every time I've been trying to meet that or exceed it. So I'm glad everybody likes what they heard today. And, and, um, you know, but I, like Dwight said, it's, it's hard to say, you know, they're, they're all different. And I, um, I don't know. I, I, I love getting feedback from people. So, um, that's another nice thing about going to shows or, or watching, you know, streams. So you can see what people have to say. What'd you guys think of it? Gorgeous. I had talking with Ken earlier. I think it's like I'm gonna be a modern-day Addams Family. I mean just everything that's wrapped up about this game is just absolutely beautiful. It looked like it shot well. The animations are crazy. Jerry the sound sounded awesome.
    86:04
    The art packages look incredible and you know, honestly, I think I'm just torn between the the premium because the black and white is just something so different and the pro because I love the green. Yeah, and I would there's I can't put my finger on it. I mean my impressions on this pin I've watched so many streams on reveals of pinball machines and I've been excited to watch all of them but there was something that was felt a little bit different and special about this game I just can't wait to physically flip it hopefully that's sooner than later but when I walked away from the stream today I don't know that I'd ever been more excited to jump on a game physically then I had with monsters and for that to happen we see a lot of pinball guys and to see the excitement and hear the You know what I loved about today and I got a Gary Stern in makeup. I mean I got a I just love seeing that you know I mean it's so cool that that you know you got a guy at the top who was willing to do that. The whole thing has been fun, really, the whole game process. Everybody was in character today. You saw Zach Sharp was a werewolf and Jack Danger was Herman Munster. I mean, everybody had a really good time with it. Kaminkow sent me a picture this morning of himself and Gary and I didn't have my glasses on and I was looking at the phone but I did not know it was Gary. I was thinking, I wonder where Joe is at. Maybe he's at the show. The show I assumed it was somebody that had dressed up for the unveiling and then later on a picture came and it was Jack and Zach and Gary and I'm like that's Gary. I can't believe it. I think when we do Texas, the Texas show, I think Gary should be dressed up like Grandpa and made up much better to really look like Grandpa and I think he should pull up in the Dragula car. That would be really, really cool. You know, it could happen because he was the penguin at the Stern party a couple years ago. He was great. He was amazing as the penguin at that Stern party. I think that's his best costume ever. That was great, yeah. I think everybody should stay in makeup and costume until the first game is unboxed. So like when you go to Stern, like Gary's just sitting at his desk and he's Grandpa. That would be fun. Yeah, I'd like to be in a giant Raven costume and just run around flapping my wings like a rat. I can't wait. You might be getting some call outs of the year coming out here in 2019. So it's very, very possible. How long do you think it'll be before either of you will sit down and binge watch Munsters episodes after this game's been out? Oh, boy. I know. We've all watched them already. You know, it's just it's always fun to just sit down and watch a Munsters episode. You know, if I'm if I can't find something on TV or YouTube or something to watch, I'd sit and watch a funny I'd pick an episode and watch it. You know what I think is interesting and I don't know if you considered this, by bringing this pinball machine to the public, there's going to be so many people that go back and want to watch these episodes that they never had an opportunity to watch. Oh yes, absolutely. So the exposure that you're creating for this show that's been what, 50, 60 years almost in the can, you're revitalizing it, it's like a renaissance for Munsters and it's a fun theme. John Popadiuk, Automated Amusements, rad cabs or side art panels on cabinet, John Popadiuk, Bowen Kerins, Laser Los, Mirco Playfields, Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast, INDISC, Scott Danesi. The match kind of born out of that. Like, well, during match, at the end of every single game, you get to see a different scene. And some scenes, you know, you'll see, and some scenes are rare and you won't see them very often. And some scenes are more common. I like that. Yeah. And so you'll see, you know, you'll see like 30 scenes kind of regularly. And then there's like 30 more that you won't see as often. And that's, I think that's gonna be cool. That is cool. Just knowing that you go downstairs, you might see something you haven't seen after having a machine for a while. I've always thought that is a great thing. Well, and jackpots too. I mean, you know, you're not gonna, you don't see the same clip over and over. I mean, you know, you've got over a hundred jackpot scenes. I mean, it, you, you really feel like you see a lot of the show in the game. How many clips would you say, I mean, maybe they're not all coded in, but I mean, how many? No, they're all coded in. Match scene clips? So, so match scene, there's over, there's almost 70, like there's over 60. 60 on a match sequence. Over 60. And then, and we wanted to do more, but we just, we just. How many Herman broken mirror scenes? It's about 10 or 15 of those. And then there's Herman. So then Herman level two is Herman getting hurt. And there's another. How many, Jerry, how many are those? Like another 10 of those? Probably about the same one. Another 10 or 15 Herman getting hurt. And then like Monster Madness has, God, Monster Madness has, oh, 123. Yes, I can tell you exactly. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Jerry, because Jerry has to do the sounds for all of them. So, so. Jerry Scott folders, he's like, 123. Yeah. I mean, that's something that would be almost impossible to do with a regular dot matrix. I mean, nobody's going to really want to sit down and bang out a hundred different animations for one thing. So, I mean, that's a true, true advantage that you can take with LCD. Yeah, and Monster Madness level one is pretty easy to get to, so I think everyone's going to see it eventually. It's awesome, guys. Well, nicely done. We'll probably wrap this one up. Do you guys have anything in closing you want to say before we let you guys get out and party it up with the pinball fans of the Munsters Pinball? Dwight and I are going to start our own podcast called, what was it again? Stupid Shit or something? Crap You. Talking about crap or something? Yeah. It's un-pinball related. We're just going to talk about crap because it's fun. I can't wait for that one. Where do I hit the like button? We hope we can count on your promotion there, Ken. Absolutely. It's called cross promotion there, Chris. We've got you covered, buddy. The crap people do. And I imagine all you guys have people that you'd like to thank and I can also understand after a long day it would be an undertaking for you to kind of be able to figure out absolutely everybody that contributed to the pinball machine. Well, let's thank everyone at the show, right? So, like, Jack Danger and Zach for five hours or something played that game or kept it playing and kept it going and answered questions and, like, so there's a whole team of people at Vegas right now that are working hard at promoting the game and launching the game and that's pretty cool. I'm glad that you mentioned Jack Danger. We've had the pleasure of working with Jack on a couple different things and the level The whole dedication that he shows and his level of passion to promote pinball is unsurpassed by just about anybody that I know. And to see him there today excited and to have that outlet which Stern is able to utilize to stream these machines because, I mean, we don't think that it wasn't that long ago where you weren't able to go online and watch a machine be revealed and watch it played. The Out Pinball Podcast is brought to you by We Are Out Pinball. John Borg, Dwight Sullivan, Christopher Franchi, Jerry Thompson. Can't tell you how excited we were to have you guys in the studio today to talk about a game that we're super excited about. Your time is not replaceable and thank you guys very, very, very much. Very welcome. It's a pleasure. Absolutely. And for this experience to have you guys all together to do this has just been inspiring. So thank you once again, guys. It's gotta be a first. I think it's a podcast first. I don't know that there's ever been a panel discussion on a podcast with, you know, such a large part of the creative team on the day of reveal of a new pinball machine. So for that, I am thankful. And I also want to reach out and thank that Zach Sharp for, you know, kind of helping us and giving us the okay to to move forward and pursuing the four of you. Because without his blessing, you know, we're kind of at a standstill. We couldn't even really, you know, ask if you guys would participate. And I'd like to thank Stern Pinball not only for allowing us to do this but for putting out great products and for keeping pinball rolling and keeping the heart of pinball in Chicago. It's exciting times. 2019 is going to be a humongous year and Stern Pinball is leading the way. We set the bar to that. You did. It's only getting crazier as the time goes on. So can we say congratulations to the four of you guys? Thank you. Absolutely. Congratulations. Keep up the good work. Comedy mediums, �