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Episode - 33 summertime blues

The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·2h 14m·analyzed·Jul 19, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

COVID fallout hits location pinball; TMNT and Hot Wheels shipping strong amid venue closures.

Summary

The Spinner Is Lit podcast (Episode 33) discusses the impact of COVID-19 on location-based pinball, recent venue closures (Modern Pinball NY, Lions Classic Pinball in Colorado), the passing of Steve Epstein (pioneer of competitive pinball), and positive reception of new releases like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Hot Wheels. Hosts express cautious optimism that pinball will survive economic hardship, noting that home collector demand remains strong. They also preview upcoming games from Stern, American Pinball, Jersey Jack, and Multimorphic.

Key Claims

  • Modern Pinball New York is closing.

    high confidence · Spencer and Alex discuss closures in opening segment

  • Steve Epstein, founder of PAPA and pioneer of competitive pinball, passed away.

    high confidence · Spencer and crew discuss Epstein's legacy; identified as owner of Broadway Arcade and father of competitive pinball

  • Lions Classic Pinball in Colorado closed after 17 years.

    high confidence · Spencer mentions closure in venue discussion segment

  • Stern sells approximately 50% of games to home collectors and 50% to location operators.

    medium confidence · Brian states this as rough estimate based on what they've heard from Stern over the years

  • New Stern Pro games now cost approximately $6,000.

    high confidence · Alex and Spencer discuss pricing; Spencer confirms entry price is '$6,000 and up'

  • Press Start arcade in Reno reopened with 9 pinball machines after bars closed.

    high confidence · Spencer reports from recent trip; describes arcade as all-ages, open Sun-Thu 11-7, Fri-Sat 11-10, $10 all day entry

  • Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles LE is shipping and selling very well.

    high confidence · Spencer states 'selling like hotcakes...selling like pizza'; mentions people raving about LE

  • Hot Wheels is receiving great reviews and selling well with recent code updates.

    high confidence · Spencer: 'People are digging Hot Wheels...People are raving about' the code updates; 'same price roughly as the Stern Pro'

  • American Pinball has released two successful machines; Magic Curl was their unsuccessful one.

    medium confidence · Brian states American has made 'two pretty awesome machines' and references Magic Curl as their weak title

Notable Quotes

  • “You want the worst, you got the worst. The shittiest podcast on the internet for pinball.”

    Spencer @ Opening — Episode branding; self-deprecating humor that frames the show's casual approach

  • “We all love pinball, but we are involved in a luxury item hobby. When the belt has to tighten, the person that goes and says, you know what, pinball isn't going to feed me. It's got to go.”

    Spencer @ Mid-episode, venue closures segment — Core insight on why location venues are closing despite community love for pinball

  • “If location play drops by half, well, Stern's going to lose 25% of their sales. That's going to hit them too.”

    Brian @ COVID impact discussion — Economic modeling of how location closures cascade to manufacturer revenue

  • “Pinball is something that endures. It refuses to die. The fans keep it alive.”

    Alex @ Industry survival discussion — Optimistic take on pinball's long-term viability despite current challenges

  • “The LE is so badass...that diverter makes the game. And everybody who I've talked to is just like, 'oh, my God, it sucks.' I'm just like, why wouldn't you want that?”

    Spencer @ TMNT discussion — Observation of collector divide: those who purchased Pro are defending their choice vs. LE appeal

  • “It's not going to be the deepest rule set of any game ever made. It's Hot Wheels. We all know it. It's fast and fun.”

    Spencer @ Hot Wheels discussion — Sets realistic expectations for Hot Wheels gameplay depth vs. entertainment value

  • “Congo is a great example. I remember when Congo was, you could pick them up for $1,200 to $1,400 all day, every day. Now it's a $4,500 game.”

    Spencer @ Secondary market pricing discussion — Illustrates collector market shifts and how previously overlooked games gain value

  • “All the games have fans now. Yeah. For the most part. There's a couple I can think of where nobody likes still.”

Entities

SpencerpersonBrianpersonDanpersonAlexpersonSteve EpsteinpersonMark Sparky MalmbergpersonStern PinballcompanyModern PinballcompanyLions Classic Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    venue_signal: Modern Pinball New York and Lions Classic Pinball (Colorado) both closed; attributed to COVID-19 lockdowns and inability of small operators to weather extended revenue loss despite essential nature of rent/mortgage/employee costs.

    high · Spencer: 'Modern Pinball New York is closing their doors'; 'Lions Classic Pinball is closing after 17 years'

  • ?

    community_signal: Steve Epstein, recognized as pioneer and father of competitive pinball, founder of PAPA, owner of Broadway Arcade, passed away. Crew acknowledges significant loss to community.

    high · Spencer: 'Steve Epstein passed away too. Right, yeah. God rest his soul'; 'He was one of the pioneers in competitive pinball...founder of Papa'

  • $

    market_signal: Entry-level new pinball machines (Stern Pro) now cost ~$6,000+. Community discusses whether luxury pricing will limit future buyer base during economic downturns.

    high · Alex: 'A certain pro is $6,000 now. Right, everything's, well, $6,000 and up.'

  • ?

    product_launch: Stern Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pinball shipping in Pro/Premium/LE configs; selling very well with positive reception. LE features diverter that divides opinion (some prefer Pro as result).

    high · Spencer: 'Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles LE is shipping...People are raving about the LE and they're selling like hotcakes'

  • ?

    product_launch: American Pinball's Hot Wheels shipping with strong positive reception; code updates well-received. Customizable with personal Hot Wheels cars. Comparable pricing to Stern Pro.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.404

0:00
You want the worst, you got the worst. The shittiest podcast on the internet for pinball. TheSpinnerIsLit.com And remember folks, it's free.
0:23
Hey everybody, welcome to the Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast. You all know me. I'm your host, Spencer. And with me tonight, as always, is the roundtable. It's me, Brian. And what am I doing here? I'm losing microphone. Are we still here? We're still here. Okay. Anyway, it's me, Spencer. It's Brian, Dan, and Alex, part of the roundtable crew. And tonight's episode, episode 33, in a third RPM, Summertime Blues. How's everybody How are you doing, guys? Awesome. Can't complain. I notice we're already keeping the professionalism real high.
1:01
Yeah, well, you know, it's free entertainment, and I think that's kind of highly valued these days and in short supply because the podcasters seem to be dropping off like flies. Our production values are impeccable. Hey, more fun than watching the homeless person beg for street change. Can't get change no more. That's true, yeah. even at McDonald's, I gave the lady two dollars the other day for a Coke and she was like, I don't have any change and she was like, well here, it's just a dollar today I'm like, oh thanks, I'm like, hold on and in my change cup I had some pennies and a few nickels and dimes, so I was like okay, I just didn't want to dig for it, it was hot I was tired, I wanted a Coke and what is this like, everything's supposed to be out of coins, is that what I'm hearing? but you can buy meat again that's a really which reminds me of meat, because I grilled steaks tonight. Happy birthday to my dad, Pop. 76 years old today. Happy birthday! Happy birthday, sir! Yeah, and also to Mark Sparky Malmberg. Happy birthday today, sir. Happy birthday, Mark! If you're listening to the show, you know Mark Sparky Malmberg. Sparky's Barbecue at Pinnagogo and now the Golden State Pinball Festival. If you've been to any of our shows, you've been to Sparky's Barbecue in the last dozen or so years. He's just an awesome human being and a great asset to the hobby. Also Sparky's Mods. If you own a Simpsons pinball party or hell, a slew of other games, you probably have one of his toppers or one of his mods. So happy birthday, Sparky.

Multimorphic's Heist module/game is shipping for the P3 platform.

high confidence · Spencer mentions 'Multimorphic Heist is shipping'; clarified as P3 module/full game by discussion participants

Alex/Spencer @ Game appreciation discussion — Notes how expensive new games have driven appreciation for classic/forgotten titles

Press Start
venue
American Pinballcompany
Stern Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtlesgame
Hot Wheelsgame
Multimorphiccompany
Heistgame
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
George Gonzalezperson
Vic Irelandperson
Retro Arcadecompany
Mark Skopfperson

high · Spencer: 'Hot Wheels, still shipping. People are getting in their hot little hands...They've made some code updates, which people are raving about'

  • ?

    code_update: Hot Wheels received post-release code updates that are being positively received by community; described as 'fast and fun' gameplay with cool features.

    high · Spencer: 'They've made some code updates, which people are raving about. I watched some gameplay video...it's fast and fun'

  • $

    market_signal: Strong home collector demand during COVID; distributors reporting stock shortages due to high demand. People staying home purchasing pinball machines for personal use.

    high · Spencer: 'Their biggest problem right now is they can't eat games and stock because...the people that have disposable income...are buying pinball machines'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Press Start arcade in Reno reopened offering all-ages pinball arcade experience (since bars closed). $10 all-day entry; 9 pinball machines in excellent condition; operating hours restricted.

    high · Spencer: 'Press Start Thursday, and it was a good time...they just opened the arcade out. So it was all ages...It was $10 for all day. They were open Sunday through Thursday, 11 to 7, and Friday through Saturday, 11 to 10'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community sentiment on location pinball sustainability shifted from pessimistic (venue closures) to cautiously optimistic (strong new game sales indicate collector base will sustain manufacturers and content pipeline).

    medium · Alex: 'Pinball is something that endures. It refuses to die...As long as a pinball company can survive, pinball will survive'; Spencer earlier: 'I think it'll survive, but I think it's going to take a huge hit'

  • ?

    product_launch: Multimorphic Heist P3 module/game shipping; features pop-up cube mechanics and armored car theme. P3 platform games consistently praised by crew as 'super fun to play'.

    high · Spencer: 'Multimorphic Heist is shipping'; discussion of P3 as platform similar to Pinball 2000; Dan: 'The P3 games are all super fun to play'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Jersey Jack Pinball mentioned as having unannounced game 'in the wings' with reference to 'guns apparently'; Deep Root expected to have nothing upcoming.

    low · Brian: 'Jersey Jack is sitting on a game. They got guns apparently in the wings. God knows what Deep Root's up to. Probably nothing'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Classic machines experiencing significant value appreciation as collector base seeks affordable alternatives to expensive new games. Congo: $1,200-1,400 → $4,500. Shadow: $850 opportunity missed. Crew notes 'when everything got so stupid expensive...what's this Shadow? What's this Congo?'

    high · Spencer: 'Congo...you could pick them up for $1,200 to $1,400 all day, every day. Years ago...And now it's a $4,500 game'

    • 2:39
    So what's everybody been up to in the zombie apocalypse? Yo, Dan. Working. Yeah, that's me. Just trying to stay out of the way. nothing really new as far as pinball goes I'm borrowing Rick's Gardens of the Galaxy so I've been playing that a little bit but then we had to empty out the office and all the stuff went in front of the pinball machines until we can get the game room cleaned out so I can move my office into there and so my pinball machines are all blocked off, I got some mods to install on ACDC I haven't got to it's a debacle but it's getting there, Tuesday's moving day, Tuesday it'll all happen one way or the other. I played some Sir Champ earlier this week. That was it, man. I've just been grinding. I was going to work on the episode all week. I had show notes in my head. I worked on it a bit last night, finished up this morning. I've just been on the gas full throttle. I mean, you know, it's our busy season.
    3:43
    I just got back from a trip from Reno. Tahoe, to be exact. You went up there to day? Rojo. I got back yesterday. I went up Wednesday. Oh, okay. So it's been two nights at Reno just checking it out. So what was the mission? Why did you go to Reno? Because we have a bet on this. The place of pinball and C-Mark and all the Reno pinball guys. Oh. We all met up at Press Start Thursday, and it was a good time. We played some dialed in. They've got like nine pins now, and they're back open. Bars are closed again in Nevada in seven counties, Reno being one of them. So what they did is instead of opening the bar up, they just opened the arcade out. So it was all ages. You could bring your family, friends, and you could bring the boys. It was $10 for all day. They were open Sunday through Thursday, 11 to 7, and Friday through Saturday, 11 to 10. Nice. That's a very decent price. Tens there are in immaculate condition. They play extremely well. I know they've spaced them out. Okay, so here's the lineup on PenMap, according to PenMap. Well, obviously, I updated it, so. Thank you for that. Yep, of course.
    4:58
    Give me just one sec. Okay. Batman 66 Premium, A Dialed In, Fireball, Guardians Premium, Medieval Madness Remake, Mystic, Stern Wars Premium, Superman, and Twilight Zone. They have an Atari Superman working? Yes. Working well. That's a fun game. Extremely well. That was like, out of all their games, that was by a country mile their best game. I had a lot of fun playing that way back in the day. It's a great game. Yeah, when it was a new game, and then Adam was working on one, and he had it in his place for a little bit. He was working on it for somebody else, I think. No, that was his. It was a Spider-Man with somebody else's. But he ended up selling it. But we had a fun time on it. Yeah, is this before I maybe joined Lodi?
    5:48
    I think he was at his old house still. Oh, okay, yeah. He might have been there. I don't know. They're supposed to be getting a Stranger Things premium and a TMNT premium too. So they're going to have 11 pens. Well, they'll have 10 working because Stranger Things would break when they set it up. Oh, come on. Damn right it will. I feel like it'll be better with the new code. I've been looking at the new code and the game is starting to progress a little bit. I'm just trying to get blackballed by Stern, since I'm not getting blackballed by anybody else.
    6:16
    The new code that they don't release them out. Good one. No, thank you for the trip report, man. I'm glad that there's still location pinball open. In Reno there is, yes. Well, you know, not everybody's doing so well right now. Nice save way, Alex. Thank you. Well done. Well done, sir. Modern Pinball New York is closing their doors. And Steve Epstein passed away, too. Right, yeah. God rest his soul. If you don't know who Steve Epstein is, he was a pioneer in New York. See, that was not a good segue, by the way. Yeah, it wasn't. You said it the wrong way. First, you did good, and you were happy you did good, and so you fucked up. It wasn't that bad.
    7:04
    Look, man, our heart goes out to the Epstein family and all the people that knew him. I never got to meet him, but I know his reputation and his passion for the hobby and the sport of pinball. He was one of the pioneers in competitive pinball. He was a founder of Papa and considered the father of competitive pinball. Yeah. And the owner of the Broadway Arcade. Classic Broadway Arcade. Yeah. Which ran for, my God, that place is open for, what, 30 years or something? A long time. Something like that. Very long time. Yeah. so um you know again our condolences to the epstein family but uh modern pinball is closed in the stores probably one of the problems with that location and obviously it's in manhattan and the rent in manhattan's got to be just astronomical sky high well rent you're also going to be coupled with they had you know they they were an epicenter that english sorry they were in epicenter for the COVID bullshit. Right. And that's killed it. And this is just the beginning.
    8:08
    Yeah, we're going to get into that more. Yeah. Actually, you know what? We can switch up topics. Let's do it. Let's get the bad stuff out of the way first.
    8:16
    Lions Classic Pinball is closing after 17 years. Colorado, never been there. Again, man, sorry to hear this. And like you talked about, You get the COVID and then you got to close and, you know, people's savings can only stretch so far when you still got to put food on the table and pay the mortgage or the rent of your house and, you know, keep the kids in shoes and everything else.
    8:42
    You know, something's got to give. And unfortunately, you know, small mom and pop businesses are feeling a lot harder than the major corporations, you know. They are. And, you know, the big thing to remember is, you know, we all love pinball, but we are involved in a luxury item hobby. Right. You know, when the belt has to tighten, the person that goes and says, you know what, pinball isn't going to feed me. It's not, you know, it's got to go.
    9:12
    That's just how it is. It's not like you're on a grocery store or a farm or anything that creates an item of necessity. Right. And this is just the tip of it. It's starting. I'm sure we've all seen games. There's a lot more games popping up on the market now. And I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. I'm not saying it's all be-all, end-all, gloom and doom. No, but people are feeling pinched. You know, I'm out talking with customers every day.
    9:42
    I see it every day. I hear their stories. And I do what I can to support local businesses. You know, and eat at some mom-and-pop places. and support them how and where when I can. And I urge all you pinheads out there listening to this, if you've got a location that you can go to, you know, if you feel comfortable with it, please support that location. You know, even if they don't have pinball on right now, but maybe they sell food or drinks,
    10:13
    you know, get a to-go order. You know, take care of your mom and pop. Take care of your local establishment, whether they have pinball or not. do that, especially if you're doing pretty well right now and you're not suffering too much from all this. Support them and help them out. My heart goes out to all these folks that are losing their businesses, pinball related or not.
    10:40
    Which, I'm switching topics up, so we're going to do this later, but let's get it out of the way now. Is location pinball going to survive, guys? Yes, we will. Yes, and now what Brian said. You're going to have several factors at play. Where are you located, first and foremost? If you're in an out-of-the-way spot or town with minimal population, and maybe it's a hobby or something like that, and you don't have anything else to help support it, probably not. If your arcade is owned by a larger corporation, and they have several different spots around the country or whatever, you're going to survive. You're going to be okay because they have the money to back it up. They can get rid of the less profitable ones or something like that. They'll do market research on it. And it's really going to depend. Now, if you're just a small-time operator, maybe you've got a couple of machines out like in a bar or something like that, and you're real low-key, you might have to pull your stuff in. But when things open back up, and they will open back up, there will be stuff opening with different rules, you might skirt by. But there's so many factors in that where there isn't one easy, quick-fix answer or band-aid where you can say yes or no for certain. I think it'll survive, but I think it's going to take a huge hit. Oh, yeah. And, you know, if you look at the demographics, I mean, I don't have the charts in front of me or anything, but just what we've heard over the years, like from Stern Pinball, it's about equal, 50-50. 50% of the games sold go to home collectors, 50% go on location. that's rough, that's a rough estimate so, you know, if location play drops by half well, Stern's going to lose 25% of their sales, so that's going to hit them too, I don't know how hard because up until, you know, the Rona Stern had been just knocking it out of the fucking park year after year and God bless them, man, thank them thank God for Stern and every other pinball company hope they can all weather this storm as well, hope everybody can, you know that's also good to know it keeps going. How long is a hobby going to survive on new games when they're, what, pretty much $6,000 now to enter the play to buy a new game? That's a lot of money. A certain pro is $6,000 now. Right, everything's, well, $6,000 and up.
    13:00
    Which we're going to talk more about that because we're going to talk about Hot Wheels in a little bit. Well, the question isn't, you know, will it die? Because it can die. It's will it stay dead? Case in pinball has kicked the bucket before and been on live support and breathing fumes. It made a pot. Early 2000s for example.
    13:22
    Pinball is something that endures. It refuses to die. The fans keep it alive. As long as a pinball company can survive, pinball will survive. It might get dicey, but it seems like the success of Ninja Turtles is kind of telling us that the people... Just like the last economic downturn didn't kill pinball, the people who can afford new in-box games are probably not the people who are getting hit the hardest by this.
    14:00
    So, the chances are that you'll continue to see releases. Everyone's got a release, right? Start coming out with a game, America just came out with a game.
    14:14
    Jersey Jack is sitting on a game. They got guns apparently in the wings. God knows what Deep Root's up to. Probably nothing. Yep. They got nothing in the wings. Riot's got a game. Who was the other company? Who did Heist?
    14:31
    Multimorphic. Yeah. Multimorphic, the P3. P3's got a game. Yeah. There's going to be something out there. So it's not as if, I mean, probably all this, I mean, definitely all this stuff started before they knew that everything was going to go all pear-shaped. But, you know, if they sell, you know, we're probably not looking at the last, you know, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is not where Stern's going to close its door.
    14:55
    Right. It's doing quite well. It's getting rave reviews. And we're going to talk about that more in a minute. You know, listen to what the distributor's been saying. They're having trouble keeping stock. Their biggest problem right now is they can't eat games and stock because, like you said, the people that have disposable income in that bracket are sitting at home with their thumb in their ass going, all I do is go to work and come home. Got to have something.
    15:20
    So they're buying pinball machines, which people were anyway, but now people – other people that didn't have a pinball machine before – And there are people renting too. We're starting to see an increase. a lot of people renting games as well, which is great for the operators because it gives them a source of income. Support Retro Arcade, Chris and Dallas. Yeah. Rent from them. Call Chris. Yeah, Chris and Dallas. They have a TMNT, too. Nice. That's awesome. And I'm glad they're able to do that and do well and keep things moving along.
    15:54
    What was I going to say? Oh, you even see a lot of the car commercials, and even Les Schwab's been doing it now. You know, they're advertising get out on the road. The roads are still open. Take a trip. Because they're trying to encourage people to get out. And there's not a lot going on. I went to Les Schwab and there wasn't no free fucking popcorn.
    16:15
    Motherfuckers. I'm telling you, man. The Corona thing has gotten out of hand. Well, they quickly put away free beef a couple years ago. We have a company account with Schwab and they always treat us really, really good. So, Russ and I have been taking the personal vehicles to them for years. Their price is a little higher than a lot of other places, but their service backup and everything else... Come on, man. Free flash fixes. There's a fucking... We just had a nail in the tire. Rusty took it over. They got her in quick, got a patch, and she was on the road. So, you know, this guy's a Schwab or A-OK. But bring back the fucking popcorn and the free beef, you cheap SOBs. My understanding was that, I mean, this is not pinball related, but the Schwab family will sell them.
    16:56
    They should buy pinball machines. Yeah, that they're selling the got in the company. I bring back the goddamn... I mentioned my chemical distributor. I won't mention their name on there. They're good. They're good folks. They used to... Because they still have free soda pop and free popcorn and coffee. They used to have free ice cream. They had an ice cream machine. Like, you know, where you... You know where I go for free food? Companies that sell poison. Oh!
    17:21
    Stop the name, man. Hey, they spent... Every time it's like spent. The ice cream machine... It was like a vending machine, but it was free. because we had ones on Facebook and you could get like an Eskimo pie. I know that's not correct. Fuck you. Eskimo pies rock. And you get like ice cream sandwiches. And on hot summer days, man, I'd stop in to pick something up. Three or four times. I would. Because of coronavirus, they suspended the plans of Comic-Con three weeks ago. Oh, okay. Good to know. So let's keep back on track. Let's get back on track. So, yeah, so, you know, So we all agree, look, they might see some harder times, but the silver ball will live on. And really, let's be honest. I mean, we don't want it to go south, but as Brian stated very eloquently, this is a luxury toy. It's not a necessity of life. But it sure makes life a little bit better, donut folks. So, okay, so we're going to talk about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles because it's such a hot topic. It'll ease your shipping, folks. The LE, I've got to say something, the LE is so badass, I think. I like the diverter toy. That really makes the game pop on the LE. I'm with you. Like, I look at that game, and I think, oh, that diverter makes the game. And everybody who I've talked to is just like, oh, my God, it sucks. Like, I don't want the diverter. Then buy a pro. The diverter looks great. I think that's why they all bought the pro. They're all justifying their decision. But I'm just like, why wouldn't you want that?
    18:55
    It doesn't really slow the game down. it looks awesome. It looks like a super fun game. The Pro looks like a lot of fun. The Premium LE looks fun. People are just raving about the LE and they're selling like hotcakes. They're selling like pizza. Ninja Turtle. It looks really, really nice. I still wish that they'd sprung for the real voices, but their sound-alikes are pretty okay.
    19:20
    It's hard to do that. And it's got music from the Super Nintendo game, so it can't be bad. Or from, I guess, the arcade. yep that's it on Ninja Turtles well none of us have played it yet yeah none of us have played it yet what are we gonna say at least we can talk about what a worthless fucking pile of god damn steamy dog shit Stranger Things is I wonder what the new code is gonna do though that's what I wanna see I do wanna play it with the new code maybe it'll be better make it a bigger piece of dog shit yeah I know right but we never know I mean press start Reno is getting a Stranger Things premium and then you have to mount it upside down your ceiling so you can play on the upside down. And they're for sure getting a TMNT premium. The premium L.E. gloves look really cool with the film projector. You know what? I'm still pissed off because I was so excited when we all got together out on location. Brian brought his boys. I brought Seth. He's the only one who wanted to go. For some reason, Mickey wanted to stay home. I don't know why. He's probably got his fake ID. I think he probably was.
    20:21
    By the way, if you guys like Spice Cake, Mickey's been on a baking kick. He's made like four cakes in the last week. So he's on a baking kick. He's quite the little chef. Good. Tell him to keep it up. That's what I do. When he's older and he decides to go to college or whatever, he's going to be the most popular person out of all the friends because he can cook. Because he can cook and bake. Him and Seth both. They can cook and bake. And Mr. Dan needs a bottle opener for that cold brewski.
    20:51
    Brewski for me, Ski, and you. There you go. Oh, ultra professional. That made a beautiful little register on there. I just murdered, well, I guess we don't have live listeners. A main body slammer. So just remember, folks, you asked for the worst, and we all got the best. And you got it. That was a beautiful intro, by the way. You asked for the worst. You got the worst.
    21:12
    Again, free entertainment in a time where it's desperately needed. I want to play Turtle Soap. Vicky's been working on jokes, too. He had a really good one, and now I forget it. I hope I'll remember it again later. Probably by all signers. No, it was really good. Oh!
    21:27
    It was really good, though. So, anyway, so, all right, well, Ninja Turtles LE is shipping. And if you can get anywhere where they have a Ninja Turtles, you can play it, man. Check it out. We're all real excited to play it. We haven't played it yet. We have to make a Reno trip soon, fellas. Yeah.
    21:43
    Hot Wheels, still shipping. People are getting in their hot little hands, pun intended. By the way, Mark Skopf and all the Reno crew, say hi. Oh, say hi back to Mark and the Reno crew, man. I love everybody. All you Reno fellas and ladies out there. I love you guys, man, and I hope you're all doing well. And happy anniversary to Mark and his lovely wife. Yes, that's right. So, what, 29 years, 28 years? I'm not sure how long. He's like 35 years old. You know, bless their hearts, man. Great people. Yeah. I have not met his wife, but Mark's just such an awesome dude. Everybody up in Reno. Michael and everybody. Just good folks up there.
    22:27
    People are digging Hot Wheels, man. And it's the same price roughly as the Stern Pro. It's getting great reviews. They've made some code updates, which people are raving about. I watched some gameplay video. You know what? Look, it's not going to be the deepest rule set of any game ever made. It's Hot Wheels. We all know it. It's fast and fun. And it's got some cool stuff in it. So, and then, oh, plus you can, you know, you can clip on your own Hot Wheels or whatever.
    22:53
    I'm mounting points and hardware to put your own Hot Wheels in. Making it the most expensive Hot Wheels in the world. If I ever get one, I'm putting the wheels in. Fuck off, Spencer!
    23:02
    Go. No! I'm done! Finally. If I ever get one, I'm putting the whizzer in. I remember when I was a little kid. In the back end, it had a little wheel, and you slide a little plastic plate, and you blow on it, and the wheel is spinning. to make a cool noise. Lower your head down.
    23:22
    They can't hear the finger, Dan. They can't hear the finger. I can't hear one of those whistles. I am looking forward to playing Hot Wheels more than Ninja Turtles. After watching, I think Dan sent me a link for a stream of it, and it just looks super fun.
    23:38
    And I showed it to my oldest Atticus, who's obsessed with pinball and Hot Wheels, and that's, every time I see them when can we go play Hot Wheels?
    23:49
    Start a GoFundMe page so I can get one. No, I'm not. I'm not going to go that route. I'm going to start a GoFundMe page. It's going to be for something good. Like a new TV. But it just looks super fun. Hold on, I started to talk. Do you have something to say? I just want a water. Can you hand me one? Fuck off. You don't get any water. Is that Russian?
    24:10
    Russian water? I really like the way you added more so you can put in your favorite Hot Wheels. If you're a hardcore Hot Wheel collector and you have a favorite car, you can put it in there. It's also going to open up the doors for all those crazy modders who are going to put two LEDs into a car and charge $100 for it.
    24:27
    I really want to play one. It's a cool looking game. Art looks good. Game looks like it shoots real well. Americans made two pretty awesome machines so far. What's the bad one?
    24:43
    No, they made two pretty awesome. Oh, two. I mean, I guess they did technically make Magic Curl, so that's kind of a bad one. Oh, okay. But they made two pretty awesome machines so far, so hopefully this is a continuation of their trend. Well, you know, if you think about it, if you go back to, let's go back to the early mid-90s. The Halcyon days. There you go. You had Valley Williams, you know, the powerhouse, okay? And then you had Capcom, Alvin James. Yeah, that's coming in the late 90s for a minute. Yeah. Day to East. Day to East slash Sega. Gottlieb Premiere. Gottlieb Premiere, and you had Alvin G. And not all of them were selling 10,000 games to the clip, but they were making some interesting and fun games. You know, one of my personal favorite games of that era, Frank Shot. I was over at George. Shout out to George Gonzalez. Hey, buddy. Hey. and we played a few games of Break Shot. I love that game.
    25:45
    When he had the COVID Cup, we played it. Just had a blast. It's simple. It's fun. It's got the modern features, but it's got that old school, early solid state feel to it.
    26:00
    They only sold a thousand of those, but it's a fun game. It's got pretty girls in tight shirts on it. Fuck, man. It's pinball. what's not to love girls billiards big boobies i mean fucking america man america it is it's a fun game but you if you remember that time and period of when it came out you can understand why it did itself oh absolutely like it's a single level game yeah that's going to kill it right there for the time period yeah you know we can look back on it with 2020 vision and that's happened with a lot of games even back in the day when i got into the hobby were just considered absolute stinkers. Just Junkyard. Whodunit. You know, Whodunit's nickname from the morning was Who Played It. Yeah. You know, it's just these games that... Tom Chucky did a video and called it that. These games were just considered absolute stinkers when they came out, and by the hobbyists for years are having a resurgence. You know what's hilarious? I loved Whodunit on location. Yeah. Whodunit was one of my favorite games I ever played. And that was always the nicest game in the arcade. I was absolutely delighted. and it was right next to a theater match that was always broken but who's other was great and so you got to only play it nobody was on it and looking back now it was fuck the best time you ever had huh it was more awesome when I bought one yeah and that's just that's how the pinball hobby is it's really cool to see these games that didn't always get love for the very longest time all of a sudden everyone likes them Congo is a great example. I remember when Congo was, you could pick them up for $1,200 to $1,400 all day, every day. Years ago at one of the California extremes.
    27:39
    And now it's a $4,500 game. The guy up, I can't remember his name, Vic Ireland, had an extremely nice Congo at California extremes. It was beautiful. He was asking $1,850 for it. Yeah. And I played it, and I was like, it's all right. I was more into the looks of the game than anything else. A couple days later, I called him up and said, hey, you still got that Congo? He's like, no, I sold it. And it sold lower than it was asking by a lot. And I kicked myself.
    28:04
    Still don't care for the game, but I love how it looks. Man, that is maybe the ugliest game, too. No, I'm looking at it. It's so dog ugly. It's got all this weird stuff going on. It's got monkeys, and it's got that volcano. But when you put it all together, it does somehow work. It's that tropical look for me. I know why I like it. Plus, the multi-ball start on it is amazing. It's awesome. But that's how, like I said, that's how a lot of those games are. I mean, you've got an erupting volcano, you know, and I haven't seen it with a colored DMV, but I imagine it's pretty fucking sweet. Oh, yeah. Well, for me, it's like Shadow. Like, Shadow was a game that I wouldn't give the time of day to when it was in the arcade, just because of the movie tie-in, and it just didn't look that interesting. You never found one, because nobody bought it, I guess, and then when, you know, it showed up at League, and I played it, I was like, fuck, man, I need one of these. like this had to be in my life and luckily I managed to make it happen but Yeah, that was one of those games. Nobody loved it. Now everyone's like hey man Still is in our league. Yeah, Shadow's a difficult game. When I got into the hobby I passed on one for what it was like eight hundred and fifty dollars up in Tahoe Wow, and I got into it because Great America had one of their arcades, but the upper playfield never worked right Yeah, nine times out of ten you go there was disabled and you got there and you were lucky it worked, but it didn't work right But it's just, it's how it is. All the games have fans now. Yeah. For the most part. There's a couple I can think of where nobody likes still. Well, you know, when everything got so stupid expensive, you know, all the A-listers, people said, I want a really cool game, but I can't afford these. It's like, man, what's this, you know, what's this Shadow? What's this Congo? What's this, you know, whatever. You know, like I bought that WWF Royal Rumble, $1,200, and it was, I wouldn't say it was collector quality, but goddamn, it was very nice. That's a great game I miss it more than Lord of the Rings, strangely enough And we do need to get back on topic I'm getting a buzz Hot Wheels Hot Wheels! We've been smoking on exhaust fumes None of us can play Hot Wheels Better stop this beer We're going to open the scotch later Multimorphic Heist is shipping I really want to play that Same the Multimorphic. It's one of those platforms where I wish I could afford it because I'd buy it. So now, is it a game or is it a P3 module? It's a module. Yeah, but it's a full game.
    30:35
    It's got a story like these guys, it's in a city and this... Yeah, but you install it in your P3. In your P3, correct.
    30:45
    It's kind of like Pinball 2000 a little bit. You can tell I didn't do a hell of a lot. But, but, that's what home works.
    30:52
    You've had a hell of a busy week. We talked on Friday, right? Yesterday, you mean? Yeah. Fuck. Yeah.
    31:00
    Ice looks incredible. Yeah. The P3 games are all super fun to play. I think I played my first game with Dan. When I got to the point, I think it was Lexi Lightspeed, when the squares popped up and you had to hit them to progress like in the passageway. That was incredibly cool. No other game does that. Have you seen Heist's gameplay video? I haven't seen the gameplay video, but I've seen a lot of pictures and layouts. With the pop-up cubes? Yeah. There's like an armored car or milk truck, I think it's an armored car, that's going across the playfield. And it's a cityscape, and there's different things going on in the cityscape, and it's really cool. And the little blocks will pop up, and you've got to try to hit, because where the truck is passing, the blocks will light up. And you've got to try to hit that to knock off the armored car. yeah see that's and then the crane it's got a cool crane it's kind of like batman like batman but it does way more cool shit um i mean the integration of the screen looks really cool i really want because i like lexi light speed a lot and i've gotten a little bit of time on it in different places on location at a show and at a collector's home so um so i've got a little bit brad has one or had one i think he traded that off um it's fucking a lot of fun no we kept that They traded the emulator machine. It does seem like it would be a really cool platform to own. Like, if you really just wanted to sell off a couple decent games and drop the big bucks and get a P3, because they're doing a lot of exciting shit with it. I heard it's got head-to-head now. Mm-hmm.
    32:38
    Yeah, it's got head-to-head and third-party development. Oh, Dave and Buster's gets them. Well, David Musters is testing them at Texas. But it's not going to happen. You never know, man.
    32:53
    That'd be cool, though. Maybe pinball's back on top in a big way if you think about it. You know, we were just talking earlier about the different manufacturers in the 90s. Right now we've got Stern, Jersey Jack, Spooky, American that are producing and shipping games. Maybe Deep Roots is going to do something hell if I know anymore. you know, we've got multi-morphic shipping games. There's five companies shipping games, okay? We haven't seen this since the mid-90s, around 94, 95, right when things started to turn south for the industry, unfortunately. But, you know, five companies shipping pinballs plus you got a couple other little manufacturers which we going to talk about next actually Yeah if you want to see an unboxing you can go to Buffalo Pinball If you want to see a gameplay video, you can go to Deadflip. You can check that out on the interwebs. And check out Heist, man. I like the theme. I like the story idea. The gameplay looks really cool. Everything about it looks cool. It's got a lot of fun. It's got a third flipper.
    34:04
    And from what I've heard, unlike other previous platforms where you could change out the playfield and it was a little bit – you know, you got a smaller playfield. You only got like the upper one-third is removable playfield. And so it's not overly heavy. It's really easy. It takes just a couple of minutes. So win-win for everybody.
    34:26
    Any more thoughts on Multimorphic Heist? Man, it would be really cool to play it. buy one somebody we know buy one and let us come over with or without masks alright Alex get on that ok sell your NASCAR and everything should be fine we talked about it and I'm Alex I'll give you $1,500 for your NASCAR some of us here are willing to perform favors wink wink $1,500 baby $1,500 simoleon $1,500 and you can be involved when Dan and I switch over to Teledeck at night and we'll make it into Ricky Bob Yes I'm Ricky Bobby Except you don't chew Big Red Anyways What do we got What's next on the Riot Timball Legends of Valhalla This is their second game Their first one was Woolly Or Wrath of Olympus Thank you Dan Because I was searching for that And it was not up there Woolly Woolly I was thinking It was a Wrath of Olive Beer And I'm like Yeah I've never seen That before Have you guys seen The gameplay video Of this thing I've never even heard of it It's got a Viking ship It's got three ramps It's got a left ramp. It's got a ramp three-quarters of the way up, and it goes all the way to the very tip-top of the play field.
    35:38
    It's the flow game. It's got a third flipper, and it's off the left, and it shoots on a curved ramp. I mean, it's got a Viking ship that's a physical ball lock. This thing is really cool looking, really cool looking. I feel like it's a coincidence that when American did their little, hey, which of these five titles would you like? The Viking title.
    36:02
    And then Riot came out with a Viking title. By the way, the artwork on it is really beautiful. Little X-Files for you there. I think that it can't just be a coincidence. What if they just called Minnesota Vikings and it just didn't go anywhere?
    36:20
    The Washington Possums? Because they play that at home and get killed on the road? I saw that. The Washington Possums. That was a beautiful meme, by the way. Our buddy Keith and Martina sent me a funny one, too. He's like, they should just keep their name as Redskin and just change their mascot to a potato. I saw that meme, too. Shout out to Keith and Dotty. Two of the sweetest people on planet. I'm not up to liking it, so I'm going to have to take a look. Yeah, when we finish the episode, man, I'll load it up for you. You can check it out. It's pretty cool, man. I mean, it's got a lot going on. It's got a real neat layout, flowy. But the thing with Ryan is they sell games in the single digits.
    37:03
    Well, if you remember, they were trying to get Spooky to manufacture, and they had to get 100 orders. People sent in their money. They couldn't get to, I don't know what number they got to. They couldn't get close enough to 100 to make it work. They refunded every penny. So they're... Like, they're stand-up. They're stand-up dudes.
    37:22
    Yeah. They're not like manufacturers. names. Well, okay, all the other fucking fly-by-night, cheese-whiz, you know, we won't mention their names. Okay, we will. Skip B. Skip B. And, uh, Zidware. Let's say it, John Papadu. Screw so many people, then, you know, things won't stop. Oh, and then, of course, Highway with the Alien, which the rumors continue to fly that Alien's gonna be remade, but it's gonna be a narrow body and blah, blah, blah.
    37:54
    Why would it, I mean, if they made it into an arrow body, it wouldn't be Alien. That's a great game. Yeah, that's true. Like, that game fucking rocks. You know. That game is so fun. J-Pop's next game would just be called Weinstein, because he's still good at screwing people. Which, exactly. I'm going to say, well. He's not very good at screwing people, though. That's the irony of the matter. Yeah. Not good at it at all. Like, fucking J-Pop. Like, I don't believe J-Pop set out to fuck people. Like, I just think that he just did it natural. So, gameplay's on, the gameplay video's on Buffalo. He set out to fuck people. Yeah, he did. Oh, you're being a dick, I'm sorry. Oh, it's funny. It's funny. Oh!
    38:29
    So, if you're interested in checking out Legends of Valhalla. It's the Riot Pinball. And you can check out the gameplay video thanks to our good friends over at Buffalo Pinball. So, before we get into our next segment, I'm going to give us a word from our sponsor. Taco Bell. no better as soon as it loads up so oh good job so you're right in front of me how about a hearty castleberries pit cook barbecue sandwich castleberries has the smoky savory goodness you get only with the finest lean chunks of meat slow cooked over a real barbecue pit to seal in the succulent juices and braced with a zesty barbecue sauce no wonder castleberries pit cook barbecue sandwiches have such a luscious flavor. Great with soft drinks, french fries, and other fine snacks. Visit our snack bar now and ask for Castleberry's Pit Cook Barbecue Sandwiches.
    39:40
    Castleberry's Pit Cook Barbecue Sandwiches. Mmm. Okay, I don't get it. Are we really getting paid? No. Fuck. Let's get that ad from the 50s. It's summer driving. We're getting paid here, man. Give him pay. Fuck, man. I got to go down to the... Pinball ain't cheap, and I haven't stopped buying them. I've got a problem. Fucking A, you do. A good problem to have, good sir. You turn up the win, and you're tearing up the cheap. There you go. You turn up the win, and you're tearing up the money on pinball. On a good note, you know, it's summer. Drive-in movies are open. Did you all hear that Walmart is going to turn some of their parking lots into drive-in movie theaters? That's incredible. That's maybe the best thing that Walmart's ever done. It's weird. I doubt it, because I got to think of all the heroin needles first. There you go. And the dirty diapers and the gloves and the mask. Every good Walmart or every good drive-in theater has heroin needles and dirty diapers. You should use the number one out here in Sacramento. Speaking of one in Sacramento. I drove by there the other day, and they were playing the Goonies, and I was like, why the fuck don't I go to the drive-in? I was just going to mention it. And I was like, okay, I have all these movies on video. Great segue, Dan, because I was going to bring that up. Hi-oh! through the rest of this weekend all week until I guess at least Thursday double feature The Goonies and Gremlins. That's a good double feature. That's a hell of a good double feature. You know what's funny? That drive-in is where I originally saw The Goonies in like 1985. Really? That's awesome. That is a true story. That's awesome. That is awesome. You should grab Jamie and go get some popcorn and go enjoy the movie. And pick up some Castleberry's pit smoked barbecue. If you're getting money and we're not getting a cut, I'm fucking kidding. This company hasn't been around since 1967. I don't know, man. You talked over me a lot, and now you're being all duplicitous about sponsoring. Jingleberry's barbecue? No, Castleberry's. Castle Rock barbecue.
    41:39
    White Castle's awful. Yeah, White Castle. Hey, I love their burgers. I'm telling you. I love them little burgers. You're not going to mention anything about Spencer's case. And it was a dick move, and I bought you breakfast.
    41:54
    Damn, we are moving through tonight's episode. We don't have anything to talk about because we haven't played any of the new games. No shit, right? All right, well, we're going to open up the time capsule. It's a new segment here. I was going to have some music for it. This is a segment that every other pinball show has done, and now we're doing it too. I got it. Live it, put a lot of love in it. Rub it on your face. It's that good. There you go. I had a soundbite. Talk about my Reno trip. Put it in your mouth. You already talked about your Reno trip. You guys have to forgive Alex. He said two Coca-Colas and a beer. A beer. Alex thought about drinking. A Coke Zero? A Coca-Cola and now a beer. It's the sugar. The sugar does it to him. Okay. So our time capsule is going to open up to 40 years ago. Four zero. The class of 1980. Nineteen eight zero. I'm going to go down a list of games. We're going to start with Valley. List of games?
    42:54
    Mystic. Yes. I love that. All right. Okay. We're going to start with Valley. I put them in alphabetical order. Just the companies, not the games. Now, I didn't go to all the smaller companies like Zaccaria or Zachariah, however you want to say it. And some of the smaller Italian and Spanish companies. I just went with the big four Americans. No Sonic games? I didn't go any Sonic, and there was a few that I know. We could do it next episode there. I don't think it makes good sense. All right. First Ballet. And these aren't in chronological order what month they were first released. No, it's alphabetical. Well, just the company, not the game. Well, God damn it. I know. I got lazy. Okay? I was eating chips and salsa. Fuck. I actually was when I was writing this. Chips.
    43:40
    So we're starting with Frontier. Ballet Frontier. Who's played it? Love it. I like the game I love the art I don't know what it is about that game Who's played it?
    43:55
    I have I played it I remember playing it back in the day I remember playing the show For some reason that artwork always speaks to me like I was somewhere in the mountains one time Stopped at some little mountain house You know, bar and grill and general store And they had one in there Wait, I know something about this game Does it have a chirping cricket sound effect? Yes. I believe it does. Yes. I have a little podcast about this before. You know, it's funny because I know Spencer's lying. He's like, yeah, one time when I was up in the mountains, I was playing my banjo. And like, Burt Reynolds came out of nowhere with his friend. We dueled banjos for a bit. That baby just turned like 88 or some shit.
    44:33
    Deliverance is such a rat flick. It is. George Christian. The best part about it is that kid looks like Ross Perot all grown up. Oh, is it his name? Yeah, George Christian. He does. Holy shit. Wow, he does. I never thought about that before. George Christian? No, Ross Perot. He does look like Ross Perot. He did all that good stuff in the 80s. What are we even talking about? We're talking about Hot Dog in the next game. Hot Dog. I played Hot Dog. And it's one of those super wide bodies from that era of Bally. So it was a couple that year. Fun game. Haven't played it a lot. Played shows. Flipper Room? Flipper Room. Thank you. They have one. Up next is the one up next. I've played the least. I've played two or three games on it. Are we just going to say that we've played these games, or are we going to say anything about them? We'll say something about them if you know something. Hot Doggin' is actually a super, super fun game. The only thing that I can't get behind on Hot Doggin' is that it has that little out lane, that little side lane that you have to hit, and then to make the ball deflect, like there's a factory nail sticking in the play field. That's pretty tacky, Valley. But besides that, that game is pretty rad. They just ran out of money. I played it a bunch with Alex and got curb stomped many, many times, but have won at least one. And it's also a game that I think, of the few games in that area, that I can come pretty close to rolling. Because you can score a lot of points on it. Yes, I've played a handful of games on it, so I just don't know enough about it.
    46:06
    Let's talk to our resident game expert. Brian, tell us all about Hot Dog. I used to go to Costco when I had Hot Dog. No, I've only played it a handful of times. It's okay. I don't mind it. But it does have that 80s, you know, nail needs to go here type of thing. Right. But that was, again, what they did back then. You know, oh, we need to do some ball deflection. We got these nails. And it's going to cost us .0003 cents per game. So, you know, the total outlay for the run is going to be two bucks. We're in. Right. You know, there wasn't any thought, like we've discussed many times before, about these games having to last until the 84 Olympics. They didn't. No. Right. You make your money back in three to six months. You keep it on the floor for two, two and a half years, and you move it on. Yep. Into the dumpster it goes. Yeah. Up next is Mystic. This is a game of the Valley lineup of 1980 that I've played the least. I've played maybe two, three games at the Pimmo Museum. Beautiful artwork. Okay gameplay. That play did a press start, actually.
    47:12
    They have it right now, don't they? Yes, they do. Shout out to Kevin Woods. I don't know if you know Kevin Woods or not, but he takes care of all the games at press start, and he goes above and beyond. We're talking cleaning light sockets to tightening down posts to super thorough when it comes to working on a pinball. Yeah, it's super rare. Yeah, but only 3950 were made. I think I saw it on TNT like once and that's all that I know about it and it's very similar to Frontier Mystic I've discovered it is I love the artwork on it is amazing the gameplay is meh for me but I love how it looks it's just beautiful I think we've all mysticked out that's all we got Nitro Ground Shaker this was on location at the Flipper Flapper Fun Company in Oroville, California, one of the brand new games this, our next game Rolling Stones Xenon, which is down the list and Future Spa and there was maybe another game or two, I don't remember it's been too many years how great is the back off the night of ground shaking? dope, the artwork is great oh good, let's go like the game is fine, it's an 80's valley but man, like it's one of the coolest looking games one of the coolest things like I don't have any like deep personal memories attached to it but every time I see it I'm just like ah it's so cool the artwork is amazing the theme is cool the artwork is absolutely stunning eh the gameplay is so so but you know what I haven't had a huge amount of time even then I was plugging more money into Xenon and Feature Spot because those games to me were so much funner plus Xenon went oh oh oh yeah the ground shaker it's a great looking game. I agree with the gameplay. The gal who I bought the bowler from 10 years ago now, had like 3 or 4 of those tucked away. And they went, they were all in various, we're not talking mint games here by the way. We're talking anywhere from heavily routed up to not so heavily routed. But she had 3 or 4 of them. They went cheap. Yeah. Because 10 years ago, nobody wanted. Like $300 bucks cheaper.
    49:30
    But for $200 or $300 bucks, that's a hell of a game. I'd buy one for $200 or $300 bucks. Yeah, it's one of those situations where if I had more money and space I would have bought a lot more than just a bowler. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, for the time.
    49:45
    People have fond memories of it. It's part of pinball history and it's not a terrible game. I didn't play it enough to really, you know, because there was nothing on it besides the artwork that grabbed me. it would definitely look good next to a Hot Wheels it would anybody who's a racing fan I mean drag racing with a skull and grill with you know if I had unlimited room for games I'd have a nightclub and up next of course is Rolling Stones which was also in that lineup it's not Rolling Stones yes no no no the Ballad I was going to say it's a good one I'm going to tell you something about the Ballad game you may not know and I think we might have talked about it time or two. And I didn't know this either. I never recognized it. I hardly ever played that one. I played it a few times. That game has a feature that's only on that game. And there's two of them. A regular just steel post with a little, you know, tiny rubber grommet. But when you hit it, it scores points. It's on a little flex mechanism. That's a good idea. It's really fucking cool. It's the exact same thing as the ball from bring you more love and desire, mate. I'm just thinking, that would be a really cool thing to add into a game, like for a center ball save. You don't like to have a lot of games like that. Right, those square points. Or it makes fun of you. Or it congratulates you on being alive. On the left and right side, about mid-play, Phil, there's a horseshoe loop, a little horseshoe loop. And you roll over a couple, I think, star rollovers.
    51:19
    But Todd Tuck, he did a gameplay video on it. It's really cool. And if you miss that shot and you hit that post, It gives you, I think, like 10 points.
    51:28
    That's pretty good. That's neat. I like that. Yeah, it's really cool. And it's the only game they ever did that had that feature. So I played it a little bit back in the day, but not, you know.
    51:39
    I played it a couple of shows years ago. Yeah. 80s game. Like, this is before I really developed a taste for that type of stuff. Right. I might have to play it now to see how I feel about it. Now my tastes have matured and I've gotten. Well, if you find one to play, at least now you'll be looking for those posts. That's all I want to shoot for. Yeah, that's all you want to shoot for. No, they're not worth hardly any points because, oh, well, fuck it. Someone gave them Scott. Isn't that kind of cool? But, like, you and Dan both brought up, oh, you can do so much more with that. You can make it taunt you or laugh at you. You could make it, you know, an outland drain save post. There's a lot of cool stuff you could do with that. I'd love to see somebody bring that little feature back. Yeah, my brain is a wash right now on what you could do with that in certain games. anyways there's a re-theme or just take find an old fucked up Rolling Stones I can just imagine like if you use something like in the game my favorite game like in a funhouse say you had that in a funhouse and it would hit but it would register that hit like the next hit would register on the plate and be like hey nice ball save Joe or whatever and then like if it missed like it registered that hit and it went into the drain he could punch you that's something like those lines would be kind of cool I'm like it's definitely something that would be great to see brought back. Next Step is the most deceiving game for me as far as beautiful artwork, amazing artwork, great theming. It looks very simple, but there's so much more to it if you actually got to play one for a while. We've all played it a bit, I know, because Adam had it for some time. There's actually Cassidy's game. That's Silver Ball Mania. I love that game. Fuck that game. Love that game. Me too. It's beautiful. It's incredibly difficult.
    53:25
    But it's one... I would, like, Dan with Nitro Groundshaker, if I had the space, a nice... I would just have one just to look at. Years ago, I passed on two again at Pantagogo.
    53:39
    It was, like, two for $300. Wow. And you could get a nice one out of it. God, I wish I could remember the gentleman's name. He's the... He's out in the Sebastopol area. but he had like two for like 300 bucks this is before any reproduction yeah I understand the hate for it it's not the easiest playing game it's definitely difficult I miss it and I love playing that at league nights I did too I love practicing it but when it came time to play that game in league it always fucked me but it's a neat game it's got a lot going on I love the middle part of that game Yeah, that middle ball save, shoot back, kick out. You have to shoot the middle in order to get it. Yeah. And except for International Rescue having the stuff, you have to spell Silver Ball Mania or just Silver Ball. It's a long thing to spell. There's a lot of targets to hit. Yeah. But it's a cool game. Just like I just don't know why, but that game loved me in practice and hated me in league. Just like real life.
    54:43
    That didn't make sense. Real life loves me in practice. And next up is another wide body that I used to play a lot back when it was a new game that was one in a little pizza place. And we would play it for both my dad and a family friend, Dave. Shout out to Dave. Dave Tongate. We love you, man. I got to call you. We got to have lunch soon. There's no chance Dave is listening. I know there's not. You never know. That's Space Invaders. Valley Space Invaders.
    55:11
    It's like, well, we waterboard or we make you listen to the spinner's leg. I love Water Boar. Bring it on the water. Man, Water Boar sounds pretty fucking good right now.
    55:21
    Great game, but that's definitely a game that totally could have been done as a narrowbody. Yeah. Like, if I need a sleep aid, it'd probably be playing Space Invaders. Well, you know, when we recorded a few months ago, before the Rona, over at Eric's house, Eric Stelfer. Shout out to Eric. What up, Eric? And he had gotten one. Still there in the same spot. Yeah, I'm sure it is, in the garage next to the Challenger. Or the Cuda. The Cuda.
    55:50
    Next to that beautiful Cuda it is. Yeah, played, man, played great. It was fun. I mean, he did a nice job. You know, put some tasteful LEDs in it, cleaned it, waxed it, new rubbers, got everything working right. He got it pretty cheap, I think $400 or something. A little playfield wear, but not terrible. And they're redoing the playfields right now. Which is amazing to me. That and Paragon. They sold a lot of them. They did. So you understand, I mean, it makes sense that they do like it. And the back glass was so cool. It's so good. Oh, the back glass is amazing. You know, and the artwork's cool. It's a great looking game. It's just, it's a snooze fest for me. It's just, the only myth on that game for me is the title.
    56:31
    Like, because it is not Space Advantage. No. Well, it has the music, though. It is absolutely alien. It's alien, and I think, didn't they get sued for that? Well, I believe, yeah. But the music is 10%. it's a fun game you know what I mean if any of these games were talking about listeners you know if you find one on location at a collector's house at a show give them a play man all of them they're all worth playing at least once or twice except Mystic no even Mystic so give them all a check out you know I've got some fond memories of that playing a lot it doesn't hold up for me as well as some of the other games from that era you know you can turn that off I don't want to just go into like your power settings and make it so it doesn't turn on. Oh, that. You know I'm computer illiterate, right?
    57:19
    Yeah, I've listened to your podcast. Right? No, you've actually listened? Shit. Actually, that was a lie. Okay. Next up is a game I absolutely love.
    57:31
    I want one really bad. I can never get enough of this. Viking. Oh, Viking's rad. Viking's dope. I mean, that game, it's just so fucking fun to shoot. it looks cool, it plays cool it's got that dead center spinner that game is just it's got the lower pop bumpers and the out wings like ah it's so neat I mean it's got regular drop targets, it's got inline drops like you said that Rav spinner which is you know that's a guts or glory shot I mean it's really not worth all that many points but it's so fun to hit oh yeah it's just but the ball comes back through it and it's like oh shit and then it's on so that's a fun game to shoot it's just it's beautiful the theme's really cool and it's a lot of fun to shoot and they didn't make a lot of them and you don't see them come up that often luckily we know a couple of uh collector buddies that have it and they have real nice ones and uh we uh get to play them yeah that's that's a cool, cool game. Yeah, it is. And the last one from Valley for the class of 1980. This was a game changer game. I mean, for the industry. Xenon.
    58:47
    Absolutely. Not the first talking game, but the first talking game with a sexy girl voice. Xenon's a game where if you could add in a new song to it, just because of the bottom of the play field, you'd add in the thong song. Because you got that chick's ass. I'm being sexist. I'm sorry. You got that chick's ass right there with the thong, just right there, going with the hands up. And that game, yeah, the sexy female voice, it was overtly... Try tube shot. Yeah. And I had a lot of time in that game, because for a while, the X had borrowed Tots with the overlay on it, which was probably the nicest overlay I've ever seen in the game, and it played great. So I got a lot of time in that game. You know, it's fun. And it had the cool mirrored back glass with the lights. Yeah. It had early music or sound effects, good speech. It had the ramp, two-ball, multi-ball.
    59:44
    It had a little bit of everything. Great spinner shot, drop targets, those cool little button rollovers at the top, which were a bitch to hit.
    59:53
    Yeah, man. It had a lot going on for it. It had a great art package. It was a lot of fun. Oh, no, it's iconic, and it's definitely Valley's best out here. Yeah, I agree. Xenon is an all-time classic. It's got the art. It's got the sound. Yeah. It's got the gameplay. You know, it's got the ramp, you know, which is, you know, in those days, it was unusual to elevate. Yeah. You know, and it's a really, really good game, and there's some people out there building just gorgeous ones. Oh, yeah. Really bringing those things back. Cheddar had a nice one. Yeah, Xenon is one of those games that deserves it. Even a 90s kid like me knows Lean On and goes, oh, yeah, those games. Those games have got to go on.
    60:35
    And up next is Gottlieb. Before we do that, I'm just going to give two quick shout-outs because I haven't been giving them out lately. The obligatory practical Steve and El Cerino shout-out. Love you, brother. Miss you. We've got to play some pinball together and drink some beer soon. And to Moe, the legendary, the pinball. I mean, he is like the professor of pinball. He really is. Moe, love you, brother. We got to get together and play some pinball and have some food and drink some beer.
    61:02
    And how. So we're going to go with the Gottlieb. Starting off the Gottlieb is Asteroid Annie and the Aliens. That game's fun.
    61:14
    I love the artwork. I like the theme. The gameplay to me is okay. I don't know. I just like it. And it's a single player, isn't it? Yeah, I think so. I haven't played one of these in a long time. I haven't seen one in a long time. A couple, three years ago on a show. I think the last time I played one was probably around 2014 at the Pinball Hall of Fame, somewhere around there.
    61:36
    And I like it. I'm not normally a fan of a lot of Gottliebs, but that one's just fun. I like it. I don't know. Played a PHOF, too. I can't account for my taste. My tastes are crap.
    61:48
    Dan gave it a pass. I've never played it. Okay. That's okay. We're going to hit and miss on this one. I think I've seen it, but I don't think I've ever actually played it. I want to say that Richard Conger had one at the Silver Ball Ranch, but I don't recall it working. I don't know. If he had one, I don't think I'd play it. He probably has one, but... I know that I've played a lot of... I know I've played a lot of, yeah, like, Spider-Man and Hulk, and I was just so amazed to see those games. I was like, oh my god, the comics! He's got the comic games, I want to play them! Yeah.
    62:19
    I still love both those games. Yeah, they've got that look. They do. Next up is Buck Rogers. Love the artwork. Not much in the gameplay. Love the artwork. Another one that was at the Odyssey Arcade when I was a kid. Played it a little bit, but there were so many games in there. It was just, you know, between pinballs and videos. I never got a lot of time on it. I'd love to play one again. I'll be honest with you. You know, I'm not familiar with the old serials.
    62:45
    But, yeah, six-year-old me thought Aaron Gray was the most perfect person on the planet. Oh, yeah, for sure. It's not based on the show, is it? Yeah, on the TV show movie. How did I not play that? didn't Michael have one for a short time I don't know it shows up at Pinagogo a couple of times I know I played it there but the artwork on it is great I think that's one of the last system ones she was smoking hot so I can grant you out there I'm single and I'm only 40 I'm going to see about hooking you over there there's a YouTube video of her doing a striptease and lingerie like recently no no that's when she was no like before Buck Rogers probably either right at Buck Rogers or before Buck Rogers some soap opera you know it always blew me away because I didn't watch Buck Rogers really until later until after I seen Silver Spoons and so she was like the secretary the wife lady and then yeah and then I was like oh my god the secretary wife lady is a space girl and she's hot the weird thing is with Buck Rogers is every time I've seen her played it the back glass has always been in ruins. I can't recall ever seeing one with a nice back glass. Oh, wow.
    64:00
    A lot of those back glasses and those system one Gottliebs really took a beating. Well, of course. And again, just like all pinballs from back then, it's supposed to last two or three years. And then we're on someplace like a 7-Eleven or something 24-7. Yeah, and there was no home market again back then. Right.
    64:19
    And getting them remade is probably difficult because of the license. oh yeah I'm sure they all need the money uh anyway when was the last time you saw Gil Gerard working you know is Gil Gerard still alive I was just wondering yeah maybe not Gil Gerard's a straight gangster yeah so next up is Circus which one just came up for sale locally recently I don't think I have either and that game looks so fun I want to play one it's a super wide body like Genie so really want to play one I love the artwork I love, you know, that, especially now with circuses being really largely a thing of the past. You know, I like the nostalgia of it. Cirque de Soleil or however it's pronounced. I don't have elephants and clowns. Well, I'm just, because of the circus that they filed for bankruptcy. Oh, you're shitting me, really? I thought they were doing well. Oh, with the Rona. Shit. Wow. Oh, man. Fuck 2020.
    65:15
    Jesus. Shit was supposed to be, we were supposed to have goddamn flying cars by now, people. What are you talking about? We're just doing 19-20 all over. I think we are. Yeah, exactly. So what's next after a 30-20? Counterforce, which we've all played. Oh, counterforce. All the drop targets. That game's got all the drop targets in the world, and you've got to hit them. And it's also, like, four feet wide, and there's, like, an inch that you can drain on either side, and the ball always finds that inch. Unless you're Juniper Neff. Counterforce. Yeah, Juniper takes some butt at it. Jesus, man. I've always, Counterforce has always taken really good care of me in League. I am a fan of Counterforce. I love that game. Love it. And the sound gets fucking insane on it. Well, if you think about it, it's a traditional pinball that did sort of kind of the same thing that Hyperball and, what's the other one? Yeah, it's a bank of like, what, 16, is it, how many drops? 12? It's a lot of drops. I think 12. And you have to knock them all down in a time limit. Right. And that just gets intense. And you got, it's four flippers. Yeah. You got upper, you got elevated flippers. And, like, you have to be able to use them. And, like I said, it's just, it's one of those games that it feels like it's hard to die on because it's a million miles wide. But it's just, like, you have to take risky shots. Right. Because you have to get those drop targets if you want to get them points. Right. And that's what Hyperball and whatever that other game that Steve was talking about. Thank you, Rapid Fire. No, I got it back. Hyper Ball. Hyper Ball and Rapid Fire were trying to do it because, you know, the lights on. Right, but Counter Force Man is going to be fun. Right. They did it right, and it's still a pinball machine where they try to come up with something like, oh, it's kind of a pinball, but it's not really, but it's kind of like a video game. No, it's a shooting gallery. It's a shooting gallery, and it's not a pinball. Right, and they're fun for a few games, but Counter Force said, we can do it in an actual real pinball you know where it like a Space Invaders type of thing where they coming down and getting faster and you got less time and you got to shoot that last goddamn target and oh I can aim for shit tonight And yeah it just a blast to play just for fun It's a blast to play in a league or tournament. If you've never played a Counterforce, listeners, find one.
    67:32
    They didn't make a terrible, a lot of them, I don't think, but it's a hell of a fun game. And I'm so glad some of our local collector friends own that game because it's a blast to play. It's a good game.
    67:45
    Definitely dope. Up next is one I know I played a couple times many, many years ago. It was a new game at the local arcade, and I think maybe once or twice this show over the years, but it's so unmemorable, but, I mean, it's part of the lineup.
    68:00
    James Bond 007 by Gottlieb. You like it? I do. I have to play it more. If Alan likes it, I've got to give it another shot. I have no familiarity with it and in fact I didn't even realize it existed until people started talking about if Stern's going to do a Bond game and I was like well they've only ever done one Bond game over the years and it turns out they've done two so I was like oh okay that makes sense it was a time game it's a time game kind of like beat the clock or travel time which if any listener wants a travel time one of my our neighbors lives a couple blocks away kids' friends with my boys. And they have a travel time.
    68:41
    Backglass. Playfield looks okay. Backglass got a little bit of crack in a play game. They want like, it plays. They want like 200 bucks. Email us at whatever the email address is. The spinner is lit at gmail.com. Thank you, Dan.
    68:54
    Yeah, I just don't have enough time on it. Alex says it's good. You know what? If you find one, give it a shot. You may dig it. It's got a weird layout. And it's a time game.
    69:05
    Up next, beautiful artwork. Some people love it. I honestly, it bores the hell out of me and I'm terrible at it. Panthera. Gottlieb Panthera. Black hole-ish without a lower play field. I can't believe it. Oh, is that? No, I'm thinking of the one with Eclipse.
    69:25
    He had Eclipse. No, Mike has Eclipse. Kendra had the Eclipse. I mixed the two up. You were correct, sir. I was wrong. I kept thinking Panthera. God, that made you dick hard, didn't it? No, I was just like, what's going on? Your fucking face lit up like he said he was wrong. Okay, that was right. No, I was just saying he let me fucking talk.
    69:45
    Hey, miracles do come true, pal. Broken box, right box again. Why do I have Panther and Eclipse mixed up? Fuck, I suck. Okay, never mind. I totally suck. Panther is a great game. Check it out. I don't know if I've ever played one. I don't think I've played it.
    70:02
    First part of the class in 1980, so we'll give it a salute. Salute. There you go. Up next, I think I played this a year or two ago, three years ago at Golden State or the last Pentagogo, before we moved to Dixon, before we went back to the original Pentagogo. Roller Disco.
    70:23
    I got nothing for this. I know I played it. I got nothing. It's a wide body. it's a pinball machine it has flippers and a ball and rolling and discos yep Alex you gotta help us out with this come on you gotta say it today roller disco was 1980 yeah and uh roller games I didn't really I haven't really played roller disco that much so but I've seen it alright um we'll move on moving right on up next a game I know more of us have played Star Race. Star Race is a cool game. Beautiful artwork, fun theme, cool game. Another one we're checking out. But I don't have a lot of time on it. A lot of these, 1980 for some reason. What the fuck was I doing in 1980? Oh, playing a lot of Asteroids.
    71:19
    Well, we're going to get, I was playing these pinballs too. I played a lot of Alley's. And a lot of Stern's. Up next, a game I know we all love. And I would love to have one. The Amazing Spider-Man. Oh, man. That's a great game. It's so good. Good. Talk about it. I got to pee. Okay. So, The Amazing Spider-Man. I love that you can get double a flipper bitch on the bottom part of the game, you know? I couldn't tell you shit about actually playing The Amazing Spider-Man. It's a pinball machine. It's got flippers and balls. But as a child of that era, like, that to me is what Spider-Man is. Yes, it is. It's the artwork. The artwork is outstanding. It's the Steve Ditko, John Romita-style artwork that you expect if you're a 70s kid. You know, Spider-Man looks like Spider-Man. You know, it's not like the later 90s McFarlane, crazy-ass Eric Larson stuff. Like, it's just super comic-y, super cool-looking. And just, it's a good, solid, fun, good machine. I would love to actually sit down and have one in my hands long enough to learn how to play it and make points on it. But just like, if I see that game and it's available to me, I will definitely play it. Drop targets and spinners all day on that. Oh, yeah. Most pinballs. Yeah. But yeah, art-wise and theme-wise, it totally wins for me. It's just so good. Great nostalgia and it's still a fun game to play.
    72:48
    Just the gorgeous classic comic book artwork. Oh, yeah. If you're of our age group, you know, that's how you remember the superheroes looking. Oh, yeah. And it falls in line with Superman and Incredible Hulk. Oh, yeah. Superman. So good. You know, it's just they have that classic golden age of comic books for the Marvel. Right. And up next, another one that's really taken off lately that people are enjoying. We have two friends that have it. Timeline. I don't think I've. Who has it? I can't recall. Chris Bannister has one. And Vince and Caitlin, first game they ever bought. No, that was Vincent.
    73:30
    It's such a funny story. He searches high and low because he plays Steve Charlton. Nearly a year. Finds one, has it shipped to him. It's nice, real nice. Not three weeks later, one shows up local. So Vince and Caitlin, they were looking for their first game. Same thing, they loved it, the show. I played half a dozen games with them. I kept trying to get on another classic Gottlieb's lineup of Steve's. And they kept pulling me over to play Timeline with them. And I had a blast. It's got the weirdest layout.
    74:02
    You know, it just, it feels to me like, it's a game that I don't really know how to make points on. But, like, it's got flippers and, like, mini sub play fields. Right. And just a lot of weird stuff going on. It's really fun to knock the ball around on. Yeah. When you first shoot it, you go into the upper right play field, which is kind of like a mini play field. Yeah. You got flippers and drop targets. and it's time. And so you've got to try to get all the drop targets down because that gives you, I don't think it gives you more time, it gives you something else, like a bonus multiplier. It sets the rest of the play field up for you. Right, like you really want to do that. You really want to do that because it gives you something really good. And then it trickles down to the lower play field and then you play the game. And the only way to get back into that little upper left, it's up in the upper left-hand corner, is there's an area where you can shoot it out back into the shooter lane. Yeah. It's one of those games that feels like it's almost too easy sometimes. Like, you can keep the ball alive for a long time on it, but unless you make the variety of things that you need to happen happen, it doesn't make a lot of points. Right. Well, it's also got that really cool back glass with the really cool feature, the blinking lights that make, like, the molecule or the atom spin and light up. Yeah. It's a cool game. And if you've never played one, you can find one. Check out Gottlieb's timeline. It's another one of those super wide bodies. It's a kick in the pants, man. It's good, fun pinball. Check it out. Anybody else got anything on timeline? I haven't played it, but I know what it looks like. You've got to go to the band. I've never had any timeline. Or Vincent Kaelin's. I've never been to Vincent Kaelin's, and I think Chris was gone by the time I started the league. Yeah, I don't know if these guys set back up yet. We were playing at Chris's house, I don't think. Mate, you've been there, but I don't know. I've been to his house, his old house. I don't recall a timeline being there. It was on the far way. And the last of Gottlieb's class in the 1980s, if we're moving on. Are we moving on? I'm done. We're moving on. It's Torch.
    76:02
    Haven't played it. Torch it. I know I've seen it. It's an Olympic thing. They did two in that around 80, 81. They did Torch, and they did The Games, which The Games, I've played. It's a really fun Torch. You know, Todd Tucky, he's got videos on all these. check him out man TNT Amusements Todd's a righteous kid and he's doing better now much better he was having some health issues and here he's doing really good now up next because we're going in alphabetical order Stern Electronics 1980 for Stern these guys I mean they it's fucking murderers row man of pinball I mean if you don't know that reference it's like early 1920s Yankees you know um it's a baseball reference because it's summer. Sea Witch. It's on there and I'll get to that. Thank you. You're getting the head, sir.
    76:56
    But I appreciate your enthusiasm. That's fine. Up first I put this one sort of in alphabetical order just because it's the first one I came to. Ali, made after the great Hall of Fame boxer. The greatest. I'm so pretty. Muhammad Ali. Which Hozier owns one. should be getting it working soon. If you've never played one, that is a fucking rad game. It's definitely a cool one. The first time I ever got to play one was at the old PPE show where one year they had a lineup of all the classic Stern games and all of these were there. It's the first time I've ever seen one and played one. It's fun. They didn't make a lot of them. No, they didn't. I didn't even realize that game was a Stern until recently. I think for whatever reason I thought that was a Gottlieb. It has that Gottlieb look in the artwork, doesn't it? Like, I always thought that game was a Gottlieb, but then we were talking about Mike's, and it came out that it was a Stern, and now it's all like, I did not realize it. I thought it was a Gottlieb. It's a fun game. I haven't spent that humongous amount of time on it. I played it up in Seattle a few years ago, and I'm looking forward to playing it more once my test is up and running. But it's definitely got some fun ball hitting to do. Yeah, at the top of the play field, instead of rollovers, it has three saucers. you got to get into.
    78:15
    It's got, in the upper left, it's got a flipper that gets you up there. It's got a drop target bank. And those are worth some cool points. There's some great, I want to tell you, it was Pimbers last year.
    78:26
    Or it could have been Never Grains. And that was in the lineup. And they have some great gameplay videos of that.
    78:37
    Yeah, I've not got a lot of time on it, but I want to get more. when things iron themselves out. I'm going to be banging on Michael's door saying, please let me play Ali and Ninja Turtles. Excuse me, and Hot Wolves. Up next, a game we've played a lot of. Seth actually owns it. Shout out to Seth. What up, Seth? Seth Holder.
    79:00
    It's been at Adams for a day and a week or two. Unless that's Adams. I think that's Seth. It's a big game. The game's cool. cool artwork, weird thing about that game because it's like it's not I got shit in my hair from the tree. Craig Myrtles. You know, I mean, it's a great layout. It's a fun game, but you got a tiger on the back glass. It's a big game, but then you're playing bingo.
    79:27
    You're throwing out bingo cards. It's a big game. What can you expect? Great spinner riffs, lots of drop target fun. The actual rules, it's got like one of those weird obnoxiously complicated 80s rule sets that, like, you have to hit this when this is like that. Mike Huntsman was teaching me about it and just like, you know, okay, when this is lined up like this, then you want to hit this and you'll get this. And I was just like, all right, but if you hit this, then you get this, then it causes this. And I'm just like, wait, what are you even talking about? It's giant. Like, that's the biggest thing I remember about big games. I know we've talked about some big games. We've talked about Counterforce. We've talked about Timeline. Big game feels huge. I don't even know why. That game just feels gigantic. Yeah.
    80:16
    Every shot seems obnoxiously long. It's got a lot of open space on the play field, but it's fun. But it's not slow. Looks good. No, it's quick as shit. It's green. It's got a tiger on it. It's got weird bingo rules. It's fucking cool. If you've never played one, check one out, man. It's a blast. a play. Everything in Stern's lineup from this year, there's not a stinker in the bunch. I mean, not a one. You guys will be shocked because I'll take my least favorite of the whole batch there.
    80:47
    Up next is Cheetah, which I've never played. I don't recall ever seeing one. I know they didn't make a lot of them. I have no idea. Again, it was at PPE that year. I recall playing it because I worked my way down the entire row. I can't... It doesn't stand out in my mind.
    81:05
    which means I probably found it mediocre and moved on. But I remember it's a great-looking game. Alex, you've got to have something. I played it at a pretty gold watch. Gene had it and sold his. Okay. And I enjoyed it. I thought it was pretty neat. Very unique game. They made under 2,000 of them.
    81:26
    Low number again. Any features or anything on there that stand out to you? Not really. I mean... Basic early 80s wide body. Basic early 80s wide body, yeah. But you know what? Hey, it's pinball. It's all good. It's all pinball.
    81:42
    Up next, a game a lot of us have played. Fly 2000. That's a pretty unique game. Lots of drop targets, bunch of flippers.
    81:56
    There's a... Who designed it? A luminary. A legend in pinball, sir. Steve Ritchie. Negative, sir. No. The great, late Harry Williams. Oh, yeah. He kind of came out of retirement, did a couple games for Stern. That was one of them. Yep. Sorry, that's one of Steve Ritchie's favorite games. It is. He loves that game. One of my favorite – well, my favorite thing about that game, I played on – I played the real one many times. It was at the arcade back in the day. I had some fun on it.
    82:27
    The far right spinner. That was the best. and you've got that kind of half curve and they're drop targets. If you can get a good spinner rip and you can rake those drop targets and sweep them, oh, man, I mean, that's just fun. You keep crushing people in the league. Oh, well, that, and it's just, it's one of those fun shots where you go, you know, yeah, I did that. Oh, man, that was awesome. It was difficult to do, too. It wasn't like you just hit that shot and you got those drop targets.
    82:58
    You know, about what? probably 90% of the time, you might get one or two if you were lucky. Yeah. If you hit it just right, you could get all three. And you just roll up those things. I always loved the ball, even when I was a kid and I first saw it, and even now, I just like the upper left with the shoot around of the ball. With the little locks? Well, the missile, it's the rocket stages. Yeah. Which is just neat to me. You know, I always liked that part of it. That game I always felt, though, it just, like he said with Big Game, it just feels huge. Yeah. And it's just because you have that open play field spot right there. It plays pretty quick when it's set up right, but it always felt really big to me. Probably because I played a lot more when I was younger than I had when I was older. And when you don't have that upper body strength to, you know, even like move the game. Right. Like it just feels that much bigger.
    83:47
    Any thoughts, Sam? I don't think I've ever played Fly 2000. Oh, wow. That seems almost impossible. Because I know I've seen it a bunch of times. I just don't think I ever took the time to put a game on. I'll put that on my list to get us someone that has a flight. I know a few people have them. A flight to K and get half a dozen games on it. So I'll put that on my list. Maybe I'll see if somebody wants to trade doubles there for it.
    84:13
    It's a fun game, man. And you can play that on the Pinball Arcade, by the way. And it plays completely weird on there. Everything plays weird on there. But you know what? At least you get an idea of what the game's all about. in the rules. Well, no, you're right. It's just like masturbation. It feels okay, but it's not like sex. I could have said it better myself, actually. Yeah.
    84:36
    What's Up Next? Oh, Up Next is one of my favorites. It's not my number one favorite of Stern's offerings of 1980, but I've got fond memories of it. We've got a good friend, Chris and Michelle Bannister and their family. Shout out to you guys. I love you guys.
    84:50
    And that's Galaxy. Oh, yeah. Galaxy is great. Yeah, that feels pretty heavy duty. That's a fun one. And Chris might have like the fastest, hardest, most brutal Galaxy. It's a beautiful shit too. That game was nasty. It's just that weird little thing where you shoot up and it's not a lock, it's just single ball play, but it kicks back and you spell Galaxy and when you get all Galaxy spell shoot up there, it goes nuts and you get lots of points. Great pop bumper action. The spinners drop targets. Um, you know, no, no slingshots. Um, but it's just, I don't know, man, it's the art. It's, it's everything about that game. It just, um, I, it was partly the nostalgia, you know, and on like a night, like tonight, a hot summer night, I can close my eyes for a minute and go back to being a 12 year old kid again, 13 year old kid, 1980. I was okay. Uh, Oh, wow. I was, uh, yeah sorry listener she doesn't do math no uh 13 so i turned 13 and 80 so uh 12 anyway yeah i was in junior high and that was i played that a lot and i love playing to this day it's a fun game next up is another one of my favorites and it's a weird one but i love it um is nine ball awesome probably the best one of that year by far. Steinball was great. Steve Kerr game, one of three. Yeah, that game is incredible. I won one even when I first got into the hobby, and it was expensive then. And the back class is just killer. Isn't that great? Yeah. And then another one they didn't make very many of. No. That is probably one of Stern's best. Yeah. Two ball, multi ball. The skill shot on there is real tough. But when you hit it, it's a sweet spot. The spinner rip especially. Because when you get all the, you've got to hit the right drop targets, and then you get the spinner lift for full potency, and you rip it. Once it stops moving, you lose it. You've got to start all back over again. So it's a real risk-reward. And that spinner shot is just sweet when you hit it sweet. You know, all the games you talked about tonight, when you think about all the cool little toys or different differences, they had no slings or center posts. That was the time of real innovation in the hobby, or in the industry. That was the beginning of it. There was a lot of it going on then. I mean, look at what we have now.
    87:23
    The innovation isn't so much in the layout of the play field as much as it was then. No. And that was the, like you said, 79 into 80. Because the first couple years of solid state were just a solid state game, but there's nothing different. You know, it's a spinner, some bumpers, some drop targets, some stationary targets, and go. You know? Well, even just like the basic play field design, it's always going to have some certain stuff at the bottom. Right. No, that's it. They all have the Italian bottom and all that. Like, could you imagine Stern doing a game like Hubert? It would never happen. It would be so cool to see something like that. Or Striker.
    88:01
    Like, if something just... Fuck, I love that game. That shit crazy. It's got two sets of flippers. Side by side. why? I don't know, because we can, you know. Golly did a lot of that, like 81, 82. Yeah. They were really looking for like later on, the Gold Wings. Well, that's why that era, I think for me especially, has a lot of fond memories. Not just because I was younger and that's when I started playing like you, but just, you could go from a Williams,
    88:34
    you could go from like a Zenon, which has a very traditional playfield layout. Right. Go right next door to, like you said, like a cuber. On the very same row of pinballs as in an arcade. Yeah. And it was just cool. It was a magical time. Yeah, this one plays like this, but those rules don't apply over here because of the way the game's set up. Right. And that's the stuff that I just think is, you don't see anymore today. Yeah. And it's very much a cookie cutter, but not designed. A lot more of it's now with rules and stuff like that, which is fine. I'm not dogging on that. But I just like that back then, with the way the market was, you kind of had this, hey, we got all these things. We're going to throw them against that wall right there, and let's see what sticks themselves, because they could.
    89:21
    Obviously now, with the way the market is, you can't do that. And it really is a shame. That's why with P3 and Multimorphic, they got some cool stuff going on. Again, on the layout, but you have a lot of cool stuff going on. And I would love to see that again. I think they were scrambling, though. They were looking for a way to compete. Oh, of course they were. Video was coming on really hard, and pinball... Pinball was on the wayside. It was on the way down. They needed to try to do something. Because 79, 80, you had what? You had Space Invaders. Pac-Man hadn't come in yet. You had Space Invaders. Galaxian.
    89:54
    May 1980. Oh, was it? Okay, I thought it was 81. Okay. Oh, wow. 80, okay. Okay. So, Pac-Man was coming on, but you had Space Invaders, and Galaxian, and... and you had Defender, you had, was Defender 80 or 81? I can't remember. But in that time frame, and of course, Asteroids, Lunar Lander, I mean, yes. 81 was Ms. Pac-Man and Galax.
    90:21
    Right. It was the beginning of the video boom. Yep. You know, super, super hard, you know, Space Invaders was 78, 79, something like that. Yeah. Like I said, just big, big. I still remember playing Space Invaders at Shakey's and right next to it was the Midway Gun Game Haunted House, which out of all the gun games, I have the fondest memories of that one and if I can ever find one, I want it just because it's so goddamn fun. Up next is a game that you know, it's probably the shittiest game and if you've got one and... Yeah, right.
    91:01
    You should just, you know what, let me make it off or I'll take it off your hands. You don't want it. Beatles. No, no, no, not before Beatles. Long before Beatles. Next up is Quicksilver. Oh, we're at Quicksilver. I thought we were at Sea Witch. No, no, not Sea Witch yet. Sea Witch is after that. Alex, you're not at Sea Witch yet, man. We're at Quicksilver. I love that game. I love the artwork. It's so odd. And, man, the gameplay on that, the spinner rips. You got that weird situated drop target bank that's like, it's pointed towards the left. It's at about a 48 degree angle. It's just, you know.
    91:45
    I mean, it's a cool game. It's got a super iconic back loss. I mean, everyone's looking for it. You know, Sea Witch, or not Sea Witch, I stuck with Sea Witch. Quicksilver is like, you know, but not a game that I have a lot of experience with. I haven't played it enough, but I've played it a bit, and I really enjoy it. And it was – it's been five or six years ago. Somebody brought one to Pinagogo, and I probably put 15 games on it. So, anyway. So, Brian, any thoughts on Quicksilver? No, I'm kidding.
    92:20
    Brian's taking a leak out in the bushes. We're out on our back now. Yeah, let's just say that. We're out on the fucking show. I said I got to pee. Fuck it. It's summer. We're out. I'm not going into the bushes. It's a tree.
    92:33
    Like Austin Powers at the fountain. I know, man. Quicksilver is one of the stern games from that era.
    92:43
    Cheetah, I know. Well, all of them have been going up in value. Nine ball. Quicksilver has been going up in value crazy expensive.
    92:51
    Way more than it's actually worth, I think, but I still dig it. If you find one to play, definitely check it out.
    92:58
    If you can find one to buy cheap, grab it, and then call me. What should we call you? There you go. Never call me late for dinner. I just dig the game, man, and I'd love to have one. I like the sound effects on it, too. It's a really cool sound effects. Moving on, finally, Alex. Yes, Sea Witch. Boom. Here's one. Well, I like Sea Witch. I like Beatles even more. Not the theme so much. The theme's fine. I thought they did a beautiful job with it. But they improved that layout even more. It shoots even better. Sea Witch is such a fucking cool game. It's another game I hate to see in the league, but I just love to play and practice. It is such a blast. Because I'll have a good game one in every 20 games that I play, but when you have a good game, it's just so fun. When it's working right, you can hear the ocean in the background, which is really cool. It's just so fun. Great layout, great artwork, fun shots, lots of drop targets. The spinner roof is cool. We shoot them all. and the orbit metal guide flips out and goes in. Everything about that game, man. I mean, just, you know, that upper right drop target bank, you can pretty much only get it down bouncing it off the pop-up. Yeah, no, it's definitely like you've got to get in the pops and just hope for the best. Yeah, it's great. It's definitely one of the absolute best games of that era. Absolutely. And the best thing they did on Beatles was rework the upper loop, though, so that you could really, really dominate it. Yeah. But then they put in that fucking magnet and it'll stop you. Right.
    94:34
    Moe has a beautiful sea witch. What's the guy, Great Witch John? Is that how it does play films? Yeah, the guy from Canada. Yeah. He's got a Great Witch John play film in it. And it plays beautifully. He altered it. He put shorter flippers on the upper flippers and it shoots better. It really did. or not, it shoots way better. It shoots smoother. His plays, the best playing one I've ever played is his, and it's absolutely gorgeous.
    95:04
    Fantastic game, again. If you can't play a see-whitch or find one, and you can find a Beatles, that's where they got the layout. They made a few changes to it, like the target behind the lower left drop targets, but the layout's fundamentally the same. It's a great shooter, but if you can find a see-whitch, man, to play your own, Pick it up, play it at a friend's, a show, what have you. You've got to check that out. It's one of, we'll vote on these in a minute. Let's just put it out there. Stern, you own the layout. You probably own the license to Sea Witch, you know, because Stern Electronics, you know, whatever. Read you Sea Witch, babe. Sea Witch remake. Come on. Just own it. Get that game out there. I would love it. Just do it. I'm going to do it yesterday. Now it's tomorrow. Do it. Call the poodles only for a message. There you go. See what you can do. Call it see what you can do. Up next, and I like playing this game, but out of all these, it's not one of my favorites. And I know I'm going to catch holy hell for this. Stargazer.
    96:13
    If you like gypsies with hairy knees, it's awesome. Gypsies, hairy knees. I think Stargazer is cool. like it's got that weird lower play field, you know, with the kind of the weird scalloped, uh, yeah. Uh, roll in areas. But I mean, like it's just, and I don't think I've ever played a stargazer that plays correct. Apparently it's a really hard game. The flipper stroke needs to be just right, but it's like stargazer is one of those games that like I've had some extremely good games on. And so I have really, really love, love feelings. But I mean, it looks great. It's got really fun spinners to hit. You know, It's pretty easy to make a lot of points on.
    96:54
    I'm into it. We know a couple people who've had really nice examples of it. Cheddar has Todd's right now, right? I think that Adam has Todd's. Oh, Cheddar's got his own. Yeah, I think Cheddar has. Both of them play great. I have fun playing them. I love the upper plate though and all the drop targets and the spinners.
    97:12
    Another one where that upper left bank, you've got to kind of get it in the pop bumpers. You can hit it with flippers. Yeah, you got to kind of hit that matrix shot around. Yeah. It can be done, or you can get through the spinner just right, and it bounces. It'll take them down. It's a lot of fun. It's a beautiful game. I don't care for the lower play field that much.
    97:33
    It's a little weird. But it's fun. But it's not bad. It's a fun game, and I do like it. If one dropped in my lap at a good price, I wouldn't turn it down. But it's just not one. I would much rather have a Sea Witch, a Nineball, or Quicksilver, or a Galaxy, you know, even an Ali. I don't know. I like it, though. It's a good game. Definitely check it out. That's, out of all the companies of 1980, I think overall Stern had the best showing. Oh, we got the Williams game? Where Williams is up next. Williams has fewer games than anybody else that year. well like we're talking about they had Defender and Robotron came out what 81? no it was like 82 so but they were starting well they had a couple of games on here that were powerhouses and game changers like we talked about so we'll get started we're going to start with Algar I played one and it's not a terrible game is Algar the sequel to Gorgar? Sort of, kind of.
    98:41
    Algar. They only made, Alex, look it up for us, how many did you make? I'm going to decide, yeah. Did it? From what I've heard, they were still running. Only 349. They were running so many fucking Black Knights and Fire Powers that year that they just took it off the line because they were running so many of those. Yeah, I was going to say, I don't think I've ever played Algar, but I mean, I always hear the name, like it comes up a lot, and I get it confused with, I can't remember what the game is, but it's by another company. It's by, like, it's by a company you don't think of, like, WECO or something. Or, like, Allied or something, maybe?
    99:14
    Yeah. God, Huntsman had one. It's a really weird game, like a post-apocalyptic. And it's got a really weird head. Oh, wait, wait. I played it last year. Yeah. Or before last. Aftor. I like that game. Sean got that. Yeah. It was a fun game, man. They had it at. That's a weird game. I played that at Huntsman's Holland Project. Yeah. I played it at Golden State last year. Wasn't that cool? That's a cool game. Great artwork, cool theming. Yeah, but I don't have any Algar experience. I played it a couple times. It was at a Pinagogo about four or five years ago. I played a couple games on it. So it is or isn't the sequel to Gorgar? I think it was supposed to be the sequel to Gorgar. It just kind of never got off the ground, man. Like Firepower 2?
    100:00
    Firepower 2 is actually not terrible. Mark Ritchie's first game. Yeah. which he's supposed to be over at oh, that's the other one we forgot. We got six companies producing pinballs right now. God, how did I forget about them? Chicago Gaming Company. They're supposed to be making something unique. Well, a licensed team, but not a remake.
    100:24
    Mark Ritchie's supposed to be on that. Looking forward to that. So we have six companies right now shipping and producing games. Oh, I know. They haven't produced... Well, the Chicago games. But they haven't made the original yet. But they are shipping games. Making and shipping games. So they count, sort of. God bless them, you know. I'm a big fan of the remake. Okay, so up next from Williams is Alien Poker. I love Alien Poker Awesome game I love Alien Poker Boom I be the fly in the ointment It a boom button It a boom button It a boom shakalaka button Oh dude it got that weird thing where you have to hit the stand in the right order and then it's really hard, like straight up the middle shot. That kind of goes around the horseshoe. But really, all you want to do is just keep hitting it up the left lane. I mean, that game is just fucking fun. I've only played it in my tools and only in tournaments. And it's got like that, like that 1980 Williams feel. It does. It's the feel of 1980 pinball. Absolutely. It is. I don't hate it, but I just don't love it, you know. But I don't have that much. I think he sold it. Huh? Didn't he sell it? Yeah, it probably was. Wait, doesn't Adam have one too? No. What's he got? I don't know. Pokerino? Pistol poker? What the fuck are you talking about? I don't know. Me too. It was in the store. Buy out the Heineken. Anyways. No, no, I'm drinking. You suck because you don't like Alien Poker. Alex and I rule because we do like Alien Poker. Brian, Alien Poker. Alien Poker's cool. Alien Poker, yeah. Good game. Fuck me. It's a cool game. Okay, well. You probably just don't, I mean, you probably haven't played over at Mike's as much as we have because you're not in the Folsom League. Right. And, like, you'd spend more time on it and you'd realize the genius.
    102:06
    Okay, fair enough. Up next is, I mean, what more can you say about this game? It's had two sequels. it's designed by one of the greatest pinball designers in history.
    102:19
    It's the Black Knight, the original. The Black Knight will slay you. Double level play still. Did you hear that game? Oh, you were. Oh, sorry. I was a kid, we would go to the bowling league, and I'm like four years old in 1980, and yeah, they'd dump me off in the arcade, and every once in a while in the attract mode, Black Knight starts yelling at you. And like, when I was a kid, I wasn't scared, but I was intimidated by it. Like, it seemed very, very like what like the grownups did, you know, like in the arcade, like it was, it was badass. And yeah, Black Knight, I mean, just always was very intrigued by it. And I've had a Black Knight. I've never owned one, but I had one for a while. And that's a fun fucking game. And the sequel, of course, is one of my favorite games of all time. So it's that game. Which you love. Yeah. Black Knight is, that game is, is super badass. Three ball, multi ball. I like Sorter H. I like Sorter H too.
    103:20
    I mean, you know, I mean, when you walk up to that, today I say it's iconic. Like fireball. People that are very, very casual pinball people. Like when we did all those comic conventions a couple years ago promoting the Golden State Pinball Festival, I mean, people come up because Greg Holmes. Shout out to Greg. Shout out, Greg. Brought his Black Knight. Would always bring his Black Knight 2000. And people come up and go, I remember, oh, Black Knight, I loved it. Oh, that's the sequel. Or people still come up and say, Black Knight 2000. Everybody remember Black Knight. Very, very casual people. Oh, the Black Knight. You know, it's iconic. It's, I believe, as iconic as Fireball is in the pinball circles. they made a good amount over 10,000 I believe for that time frame and they did a rerun on it which was in addition yeah and it's got the Magma save it's got the multi-level play field it's got three-ball multi-ball it's got the boys it's got a lot oh yeah it's just really cool music it's got tons of drop targets which are time which I don't know if that was a first but it was very it's It's the first I remember where it didn't, you know, you hit the drop targets down, they go down, they come back up. No, you don't hit them down on time, they come back up. So it added to the, it added to that, you know, risk-reward and that, you know, cool, oh, I got to get that last one before they pop. Ah, shit, too late. You know, I mean, what more can be said? It's an iconic game in football history. And really, like Brian was saying earlier very well, you know, kind of nailed it on the head. That was, like, the beginning. Because after that, you know, next year you had Black Hole, double-level play field. The year after that, you had Haunted House. You had, you know, all these other games from Williams, from Valley, from the manufacturers, double-level play fields, multi-ball, ball walks, all these innovations. That was some of the beginning, the real, you know. The legacy of Black Knight is really kind of sketchy, too, because if you think about it, like, Black Knight was sort of the apex. of the early, the late 70s, early 80s, like the 70s, 80s pinball boom kind of reached with Black Knight. Right. And after that, it went on a very sharp decline, and everybody was trying to recreate Black Knight. You know, I mean, if you look at a lot of the Williams games after that the next couple years, there's a Black Knight type. Oh, oh, Flash Gordon. Yeah, well, that was Valley, but there's like your Pharaoh. There's like all the games. Oh, yeah. John Willard. Pharaoh. Exactly. It's like a Black Knight inspired game. Right.
    106:04
    What was it really? Solar Fire. You know those games could have been cheap. No. Solar Fire and then System 11 Land. A Grand Lizard. Very inspired by Black Knight. And then you have your decline and it was almost dead. You know, 83, 84, Pinball was almost in the grave and then Space Shuttle came along and Space Shuttle was a very simple game. You know, back to basics. But very cool. Two flippers. Oh, fuck, I love Spishup. More than most of the other games. Two flippers. Lots of shots. Ram. The toy. But yeah, it's like... That kind of took it to the next level. It really did. Well, I think it took it back. It wasn't the next level. It was the prototype of the modern game.
    106:47
    Black Knight was the crazy... It was like a game that came out at the peak of creative and financial, and they were looking for the next big thing, and they did crazy stuff in it. Right. But Black Knight, I think, is an icon. Absolutely. Maybe not the best game of 1980, maybe the best game of 1980, but absolutely an icon. Absolutely. And, of course, made by the king. The game that really cemented Steve Ritchie as the king of baseball. Right, right. After his success with Flash. Flash, Firepower was absolutely huge. Oh, yeah, Firepower, too. Black Knight was just like, you know, people like Bob Fosse. which, uh, uh, Firepower's our next game. Firepower. You guys talk about it, I gotta see it again. Okay, cool. In the bushes and trees. Why am I a little surprised that Firepower came out in 1980? I don't know. It's got fire and it's got power. It feels so much simpler and older. Well, I think it came out before Black Knight. It does feel... It did. It does feel simpler, but that is not a simple game to do well on. Oh, no, it's great. Like, it really is. Well, it's brutal. You got those That's a super cool game. You got the two sets of three drop targets right in front of the flipper, right up there with the center right there, and it always feels like a sucker shot.
    108:05
    You're like, hey, I got my lead flipper, and I'm going to go right here, and it always feels like it's just going to come scream back at you, because it does.
    108:12
    You know, it was like a carnival game very much so. It's like, hey, this looks easy. If this method can do it all the time, why can't I? and you're pumping your money, and you lose three balls in two seconds trying to do what the guy before you just got a high score. Well, those games are obviously popular with operators, because unlike, like, a counterforce or a timeline or something where I felt like, you know, oh, man, it's four foot wide, and there's nowhere to drain, and I can keep the ball in play forever if I have blipper skills. Like, Black Knight would kill your ass. Firepower would kill your ass. And that's what Steve Ritchie prides himself on. He's like, my games are not nice. They will murder you. And then, you know, now that we have the band of sound and even the Black Knight, I will laugh at you. Right. Well, if you look at, yeah, because obviously Firepower came at the beginning of 1980, Black Knight more towards the end. Because then Flash Gordon, which was very similar to Black Knight, came out in 81.
    109:09
    But you look at Firepower, it's a basic single-level game, standard body. Lane change, first lane change. First lane change, thank you, yes. That is correct. First lane change. and then it's deceptively simple. You look at the playbook and go, okay, there's some standard targets, a spinner, four pop bumpers,
    109:28
    you know. And they sold a shitload of them, right? A metric fuck ton. Like, that game was everywhere. Yeah. Like, there was a twist. I really thought that game was older. Everybody thought that was like a 79. Three ball lock? Three ball multi-ball? Or a 78 or something. And not an easy multiball to good.
    109:50
    Yeah. No, it isn't. If you look at it from the perspective like you're talking about, Dan, with, you know, it's an ass kicker, it was an operator's wet dream. Okay. Because it followed the tenets of pinball perfectly. Easy to learn. The rules were easy. Okay, this is what I do. Simple to figure out. Easy to play. Hard to beat.
    110:12
    Yeah. You know, and once you got multiball, if you could keep multiball going for a length of time, You could just keep racking it because you keep hitting the standard targets, get all the standard targets, and you can lock your balls again. So you start losing balls as long as you can do that, and then once you get to that point, it was just on like Donkey Kong. But you had to be able to work up to it, and that was the tough part. That's the quintessential 1980s Williams pinball. Absolutely. It's got the defender sounds. It's got the brutal gameplay. you know, it's got that look. It looks like Star Wars, but it's safely not licensed. Great point. Great point. It is fucking so good.
    110:57
    And it's still an absolute blast to play today. I would love to play that firepower duel that they did. I think it was in Seattle last year where they put a board in that let you link together two firepowers and you were having, it wasn't for score, you were having a dogfight. So if you hit targets, you were attacking the other guy and refilling your shields. Oh, nice. Yeah. I'd love to play that. Oh, my gosh, yeah. How many hours? So good. What's up, Firepower? It's like 10,000, 13,000. And like 15,000 Black Knights, right? Yeah. It's like Steve Ritchie himself sold almost 30,000 games that year. Yeah. So that kind of got him the trip to Hawaii, didn't it? I believe it bought him a Porsche so he could make high speed. I believe you're right.
    111:44
    Firepower. Now, here's the next game is another game I absolutely love, as much as Firepower and has no multiball. Blackout.
    111:52
    Blackout is rad. Blackout's fun. Great spinner rips, some cool drop targets, but those are situated where it's like you're talking about earlier, Brian. Awesome use of controlled lighting. Yeah. Maybe the first use of controlled lighting, like in the GI, right, because of the blackout mode. Yeah. But just such a stupidly basic, smart feature that ties into the game. I've had people, like non-pinball people ask me, it's all like oh, do you have a blackout? It's another game, it's very well known It is just one of those games that people are just all about it Yeah, because they have that great Defender music, Spinner riffs I was playing Mike Garcia's the other day and yeah, that's again maybe not quite as quintessential as Firepower but yeah, it's very much a 1980s Williams game. Yeah. Yeah, Blackout. Super good. And you can still pick those up at a pretty reasonable price. Yeah, it doesn't have quite the name recognition as some of these other games. Who designed Blackout? No idea. Alex, hook us up, bro. Blackout, I believe. Okay.
    113:04
    Paul Newman. He was busy in 1980, but he wasn't designing. I thought it was making popcorn and barbecue sauce. I think he was doing that in 1980. I think that was when he was playing. Salad dressing.
    113:16
    Okay. He was a dumb shit. They make some good stuff. Claude Fernandez. I was going to say that. Claude Fernandez is a badass. That's a great game. It just shoots so well, and it's fun. He also did Baby Pac-Man, Electra, Embryon, Flash Gordon, Skateball. Okay. All games I like except for Skateball, which is just okay. Airborne. Oh, fuck. Did I miss Skateball? Malcolm Airborne? Yeah. And he did Torpedo Alley. No shit. I mean, I know this is off the subject, but man, Airborne is an underrated legend. God, I miss that. Dude. That game is so fucking rad. I gotta go back. I completely skipped over on the valleys. I completely skipped over the skateball.
    113:57
    I'd say boo this man, but they're gonna do that again. Boo! How the fuck did I... I got it written down. How the hell did I do that? Because you haven't had any scotch. I haven't had any scotch. Why do people always bring fruit to these things? You know what? I love the theme of that game because it reminds me of my youth being a skater. I love the artwork on that game. That gameplay does nothing for me on Skateball. It just doesn't. And I've played beautiful examples. Adams and... There are, yeah. There are a lot of really... And Michaels. Like, it became the restore, like, flavor of the week, like, a couple years ago. And it seems like everybody has a Skateball with a new playfield. And they're beautiful and they play great. I'm really waiting for Adam to get his, you know, completely dialed in. I remember it still had a couple things to go, but Mike's was just awesome. Same thing. He sold it because at the end of the day, it's beautiful, but it just didn't do anything for me. Which is a shame because it's such a beautiful game, and the theme is awesome. It's fun. Sorry about that, guys.
    115:00
    It's not a bad game. I don't hate it. I just don't love it. I would rather play Blackout. You could have got that mustache. So we're back on the Williams, and Williams has got one more game. Drewster, shout out to Drewster, part of the Reno crew.
    115:13
    Brought one a couple years ago, about three years ago, four years ago, one of the last, kind of go-go before we moved everything. Anyway, Scorpion.
    115:24
    Williams Scorpion, wide body. Barry Orsler. I believe so. Fun game, different. I haven't played it. I played the shit out of every one of those 1980 Williams games except for Algar, and I've never played Scorpion. Yeah, I can't recall ever playing Scorpion. It probably just got buried. How were you going to compete in a year where it's like you went up against Black Knight, Firepower, and Black Owl? I played it a bunch at the show because Drewster bought it, and I'd never seen her play one before, so I'd probably put half a dozen games on it and had a blast playing it. And it's an Orso game, and I had to get some time on it.
    116:02
    Scorpion. No doubt. But, so, all right. So that's the class of 1980, the big four. And if you're an old, old guy like me, you played them in the arcade when they were new. Or if you're like these guys, you played them at shows, at home collections. I played at least a couple of those in the arcade when they were new. I played Firepower and I played Black Knight for sure, you know. Played them in the arcade, but they definitely weren't new. You had a great Black Knight story. Like, they were around still when we were kids. A couple years later, yeah, you know, you still see Black Knight. I mean, Black Knight was an arcade for a long time. Well, he's the main minor part of it. Firepower was an arcade for a long time. Although, I remember much, much more vividly Firepower 2.
    116:43
    The weird back box. Yeah, yeah. When we reviewed that year, what was it, 1984? We'll talk about both Valley and Williams with their weird back boxes. Because, like, this game is going to slide crazy. Let's order 10,000, I think it was 83, 10,000 of those weird-ass cabinets. And they had to use them up. Gotta make them work. Good stuff. Have a deal. So let's pick our favorite game out of each of the companies for that year. Just pick our favorite overall. We're running long here. We always run long. We're still under. Yeah. We're going to go until 11. We're just a click under two hours. Wait until the wintertime. Then we run short. There we go. All right. We were in a pool. Okay. So our time capsule class of 1980, Valley. We got Frontier, Hot Dog, Mystic, Nitro Ground Shaker, Rolling Stone, Silver Ball Mania, Skateball, Space Invaders, Viking, and Xenon. Alex. Okay. Favorite of all those valleys. I would probably have to say Xenon because it's super tough and brutal and challenging, and I really like the voice. It gives a special feeling. Yeah. I kind of figured most of us probably picked Xenon because we talked about it earlier. Silver Ball Mania. That would be my second. Great choice. Oh, boy, it's a tie-up because I love Vikings so much. Tam? Xenon. I'm going to have to give the win to Xenon for myself, but honorable mention to none of them really. A lot of those. Yeah, I mean, yeah. It's a solid lineup. Viking and Silver Ball Mania, you know, and, yeah, they're all – I mean, there's not a turn to budge. Viking is definitely my second, but Xenon. So, okay, so Xenon is the big winner for Bally for 1980. Up next is Gottlieb. We got Asteroid Annie and the Aliens, Buck Rogers, Circus, Counterforce, James Bond 007, Panthera, Roller Disco, Star Race, The Amazing Spider-Man, Timeline, and Torch.
    118:47
    I'm going to pass. My heart says Spider-Man, but the football player in me knows that it's Counterforce. It's got all the drop targets. talk, I'm going to have to pass on this one. This is tough.
    118:59
    Give me something to work with here, man. Amazing Spider-Man. Okay. I'm going to agree with Dan on Counterforce.
    119:09
    Timeline comes in a real close second, and then Spider-Man for me. Timeline's just too weird. Spider-Man's beautiful, but Counterforce is just fucking... Spider-Man has more broad appeal, obviously. Amazing Spider-Man. And it is a great game, but uh Count of Force and Timeline both to me are just the average Spider-Man there you go and Mojola Fame has it Amazing Spider-Man I played it there that and the Richie Adam had one for a short time he was fixing for somebody else and we had it for a couple like two week nights so we got to have some fun with it um played good it was a lot of fun um and the Stern Electronics we got Ollie Big Game Cheetah Flight 2000 Galaxy Nineball, Quicksilver, Sea Witch, and Stargate Oh fuck Um I'm gonna have to say Drumroll That game's on all those Oh yeah I have a rim shot It's a one production game I have a rim shot on my sound Sea Witch Not a rim job, a rim shot What the heck's a rim job? Sea Witch is still my favorite Stern Electronic game.
    120:26
    For the class of 1980. All right. Brian. It's a toss-up between Sea Witch and Nineball. Yeah. Like, I literally have to toss a coin. I like them both equally. Yeah, me too. And Galaxy is such a great game. Beautiful artwork, fun game.
    120:43
    Dan? Sea Witch. Sea Witch is just so fun to shoot. I'm going to give it to Sea Witch by just an inch, only because I think it's a more balanced layout than Nineball. I know you guys all have a weird hard-on for Nineball. I think that game's kind of ugly. I think the sound is annoying. I mean, it's fun because the rule set and lighting all the balls is pretty neat. But, like, Sea Witch is just great looking. Well, I have two ball, multi-ball. Great looking. Fun to shoot.
    121:16
    Interesting. indifferent, you know, it's got a lot going on. Like, see what you can do. And if it's working right. And it was so good that they had to make it into a new game. Absolutely. Which, by the way, Stern, see what you can make. Come on. It's already done, man. I'm with you. I'm with you. Hand the art to Franchi or somebody and have them redo the art and, you know, stay true to the original and make it look modern. Throw it on top of Beatles. Turn the fucking record into like a whirlpool or something. It's done. throw some graphics on it make money. There you go. People will pay $6,000 for it all day long.
    121:52
    I think so. I think they would. If I had plenty of money to play with like that I'd buy one just because it's that cool of a game. We're on to Williams. So we've got Algar Alien Poker Black Knight Firepower Blackout and Scorpion.
    122:11
    Alex. I am the Black Knight. Yeah, it's too easy. that him, right? Black Knight has a slight edge over Firepower.
    122:20
    Black Knight is the king. The king of pinball. I almost want to vote for Firepower because I love that game so much. Firepower would not be my second.
    122:32
    Really? Alien Poker would. Really? Alien Poker is so cool and so weird and so different. But Firepower is really, really, really, really good.
    122:41
    You know, and I think it's definitely more iconic. definitely but it's not as much fun of a game as Alien Poker looks better it's a fantastic game and it stands well on its own it stands the test of time I will agree but yeah I gotta give the edge to Black Knight because it was it's so iconic it's such a game changer and you know I mean I'm actually playing Firepower right now on Pinball Arcade while we're doing the show yeah I mean as you said earlier it was the apex of the modern like hey here's the gateway of modern pinball this is what it's going to be I think it was more the end of that era it sort of killed 1980s pinball and forced the evolution into late 80s pinball and 1990s pinball you never saw things after like 85 like Black Knight I agree with what you're saying I would say it's kind of like the Mario Brothers 3 of pinball for that era. Yeah, like it was the absolute pinnacle and nothing else was going to measure up to it. And they tried over and over and over. Yeah, well I mentioned you know, like O'Conley Spirit, Black Hole, Haunted House, and then you had you mentioned a little bit ago, Elektra, you know, had the lower play film had another play film. You know, some of the ballot games of that era. Everybody was trying to make something bigger and better. Yeah, and they're all great games. But they couldn't make something funner. Yeah. Although, honestly, I think Flash Gordon is better than Flash Gordon. I will agree with you 100%. I like, and you know, Flash Gordon came up for sale about a month ago for $500.
    124:26
    And, what was it? It was like, buy, sell, yeah. Adam turned me on to the lead. I left, I didn't really have the money, but, you know, fuck it if I can get it. And the guy never returned my messages and got pulled off a couple days later, so. if you find a $500 you know flash cord that you don't have the money for let me know and I will stake you don't remember we talked about it I do remember but you're like I was sitting there and all that so you're like motherfucker go get it exactly it's like fucking I understand times are tough money ain't easy to come by but I will stake you on that you know here's the thing I won't come out a loser because if you can't pay me I get a flash cord and out of the deal or I can fix the boards Or I come and I repossess that surf champ. What a deal.
    125:15
    I'm going to be buried in the surf champ. I'll keep your body in there. Where's Spencer? He's in an urn inside the surf tank. There you go.
    125:26
    You've seen the modern urns, right? Of course they don't have first-hand experience. It's not like a jar. They give you this cool little plastic box with the remains in it, and you can do whatever you want with it. It would be super easy to keep a side of pinball. You just drop the coin box, you just put it right there in front of the coin door and Spencer, you'd always be right by my junk while I'm playing pinball. Well, that's my life's dream to be by Dan's junk for eternity. I know, right? At least when I'm playing surf, Dan. The crowd will get jealous. The crowd will have been cremated with them. So that's our fun and longer. That was fun. Is that a category you guys want to do for future is... Yeah, but let's not go chronologically. Let's jump around. Yeah, no, no, like... So some of these years we can talk about games that I actually know. Like next episode we might do like 1985 or we might do 1983 or we might do 1991. Or, yeah, 1991. Nah, 1991's a pretty good year. So, it was a good year. Mm, film a bouquet. All right.
    126:29
    Anybody got anything else? I think it was a good year but at the end they said that's false advertising. Yeah.
    126:36
    Well, we're at the two-hour and change mark. Two hours, six minutes. Woo-hoo! 41 seconds. You guys got any shout-outs? Thank you. Shout-out to Mark Scoff for keeping Reno awesome.
    126:50
    I had a lot of fun with you guys in Reno. Does he play pinball in Reno? He doesn't, like, run Reno. Oh, he runs the league, doesn't he? He runs the league in Reno, yeah. But they're not playing. No, they're not. Uh-uh. No leagues who play. Shout-out to anyone who's trying to keep pinball going right now. And that includes us, because we're doing this. We're communicating with our dozen of fans. Support Press Start in Reno. Yeah. Go wherever you can spend money on pinball. Spend money on pinball. $10 all free play. It's so worth it. The games are super well maintained.
    127:20
    They're quality level games there. They're like playing at somebody's house. Well maintained. Seriously. And people in Reno don't like to wear masks. So don't get the girl. Apparently they did there. Oh, yeah. Mr. Nevada was one of the worst states. It's really, really hard to smoke meth in Reno when you have a mask. Yeah, sadly. But not impossible. I don't know. You guys pulled it right up to the mask. Or if you're not wearing your mask fully, the owner of Press Start calls it dick nose in it. Dick nose in it? Yeah. Dick nose in it. Richard Nixon in it. I have never. I've done pretty much all my shout outs. I'll give a shout out to Dan Fenton. I haven't talked to him in forever. in two days. I know Brian would talk to you before the show. It's good to see him. Where'd you guys go two days? We didn't go anywhere. Well, he had a little bit of a mother bumping the road for him. He lost his dog.
    128:17
    He's reeling from that. 2020 has not been a good year for him and all of us. Let's do it. Just keep the faith, man. It's going to get better, man. We've only got four and a half months until 2021. one. It's got to get better. It has to. So we're thinking about you, brother, and hope you're doing well. It's five and a half months, though. Change your caps out, people. Keep an eye on your caps on those boards. Oh, no kidding, man. What the fuck? Just keep an eye on them. They're not fun to change out. I'm tired of knowing caps. It's all right. Oh, and I'll leave this shout out, too, to our local drive-in, the Westwind drive-in. Westwind Sacramento 6! Woohoo! Right now, I think, well, we did talk about earlier. They got a bunch of double features going because there's not a lot of new films coming out right now.
    129:07
    So it's, what is today? Oh, it's my dad's birthday. July 18th, 2020. So until the end of the week, Saturday, July 18th, so like until Thursday night,
    129:19
    they got a double feature of The Goonies and Gremlins. So if you ain't doing nothing and you're in the Sacramento area, check online, check their website because they have a couple, three more drivers in California. They've got one in Nevada and one in Arizona. So if you're in the western states and you're near there, check their lineup. Or if you have a driver in your area, check to see what they're doing. They might be having a cool double. I think Las Vegas has one, too. I think they do. Yeah, they do. We can park one. I don't know if it's open.
    129:48
    Not sure. Sacramento's is open. Yes. With restrictions. Rusty and I went on a date night about, I don't know, six weeks ago. and you go up to order your popcorn and stuff and they don't let you in the building. Are they actually selling them? Because I heard the professors were closed. They did open them, but again, you couldn't go inside the building. You can't go inside the building. They have the tables across the door and you go up to the door and then you tell them what you want, you give them the card or money and they would bring it to you. The popcorn tub had a plastic lid, like a slurpy lid, except it was complete. And then they give you the butter and a little another plastic thing. And you're supposed to stay in your car. It's security. You wander around. Yeah, I didn't get in your car. It's like, I got to pee. One person in the bathroom at a time, sir. Yeah, no problem. It's all decrepit and beat down now. I mean, maybe it's getting nicer. I know that there's more people in the bathrooms. But I always loved the snack bar in that building because it's that big round. They did renovate the restroom there. And it was always the coolest, just most inspiring looking snack bar that I'd ever seen in a movie. It's great, isn't it? I love that place. No, they renovated the bathrooms two years ago. last year, they repaved and painted markers on every one of the screens in the parking area. I'm sure if this hadn't happened, they were going to renovate that this year. Every year they were doing the last three years. Before the Rona happened, they would have theme nights. They had Marvel Super Hero Night. All the employees dressed up like Marvel Super Heroes. It was great. They were playing The Last Avengers. they had two years in a row we went and got three bandanas because they had Western Night and they had Cowboys and Aliens no they had a mechanical bull for the kids one of those like the inflatables and then it's an inflatable tub I've been to one of those they had a luau night they had pineapple eating contest which I got a great picture of Mickey with like two full pineapples in his mouth at once it's great you know fun stuff like that man they had hula dancers they had DG Night Battle of the Bands nights.
    131:55
    Two years in a row they have back-to-school nights. Give out free backpacks. I mean, just a kick-ass good time. And you get to see a couple of movies. And so the drive-in's open. I don't know if Concessions is open again because of the increase in the Rona stuff. But it is open. You can go see movies there and experience some summer fun. So summer's not a total summertime blues. I'm going to leave you off with this. go do something. Go get your dip comb. Go swimming at the river, the lake, the ocean, the creek, whatever you've got. Go whitewater. Hang out on the back porch and do a podcast with a bunch of your buddies. You know what? Have a few friends over that you feel safe with. Stay outside. It's beautiful. We've got the Delta Breeze right now here in lovely, sunny Sacramento County. Beautiful Rancho Cordova. As Mark Fenton likes to say, the beautiful Delta Breeze. That feels great now. My KCRA 3. That's beautiful. Delta Breeze. Oh, man, it's great, but it's summertime, guys, and don't let, you know, everything that's going on, it's real easy to be down. There's a lot of bad stuff in the world right now.
    133:03
    Don't let it get you down, man. Play your games. You know, talk to your friends. Live your life. Boom goes the dynamite. The Delta Breeze. Every summer we get older. Don't make this the worst summer of your life. Make it the best, or at least the good one. I'm going to leave you guys with that. I had nothing else. It's the worst summer of my life. So far.
    133:25
    That's all I got, guys. So that I'll leave everybody with. Hey, you know, you can hit us up. Our email, of course, is thespinnerislit at gmail.com. You can find us on Facebook. You can hit us up, like us, leave a comment. You can get us on iTunes, Stitcher Radio. I think Stitcher's still carrying us.
    133:46
    And our home at SoundCloud. If you're listening to this, you already know where you can find the podcast. Right, yeah, right, yeah. That high-quality bedroom on I-5. All right, boys.
    134:00
    All right, roundtable crew, give us the out. You know what it is. Play pinball. Keep America strong.
    134:08
    Bye-bye. And we are out. It was tacos. No, what was the thing from the Greedo? Oh, I forgot what it was, but it's so funny. Greedo. McClunky.
    134:22
    McClunky. Yeah, McClunk. Have you guys seen that yet? McClump. No. McClunk. So apparently they did a...