Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Episode 94 - Pinball Hindsight Awards 1985

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·42m 53s·analyzed·Aug 4, 2025
Buzzsprout-17584998
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Wedgehead's 1985 Pinball Hindsight Awards crowns Sorcerer GOTY amid industry contraction.

Summary

In this episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast, hosts Alan and Alex conduct the second edition of their Pinball Hindsight Awards, evaluating games released in 1985—a year marked by industry downsizing and the emergence of new manufacturer Gameplan. Through categories spanning art, mechanics, software, and design, the hosts award Sorcerer (Williams) as Game of the Year, with standout winners including Andromeda for best art package, Fireball Arcade Classic for best mechs, and The Comet for best sound and theme integration. The episode provides historical context on 1985 as a challenging year for pinball manufacturers and discusses the lasting impact of various titles.

Key Claims

  • 1980 was the peak of the pinball market; by 1985, manufacturers had massively downsized operations

    high confidence · Alan, host, opening segment discussing 1985 context

  • Steve Ritchie left pinball for the first time in 1985

    medium confidence · Alan, discussing notable industry changes in 1985

  • Gameplan started in 1978 making cocktail machines, then ramped up full-size production in 1984-1985 during industry contraction

    high confidence · Alan, explaining Gameplan's timeline and poor business decision

  • The Comet sold over 8,000 units and was the best-selling game of 1985

    high confidence · Alan, presenting objective sales data for The Comet during Designer of the Year category

  • The Comet launched a trilogy (later corrected to quadrilogy) of successful games

    high confidence · Alan and Alex, discussing The Comet's commercial success and sequels

  • Fireball Arcade was a massive hit that spawned multiple versions and sequels

    high confidence · Alan, discussing Fireball Arcade's franchise longevity and commercial appeal

  • Sorcerer has grown in popularity since its 1985 release and is now highly sought-after

    medium confidence · Alan, awarding Sorcerer as Game of the Year and noting its retrospective popularity

  • John Trudeau designed three Gottlieb/Premiere games released in 1985: Tag Team, Ice Fever, and Rampage

    high confidence · Alan, presenting Designer of the Year nominees

  • Larry Day created art packages for three Premiere games in 1985: Tag Team, Bounty Hunter, and Ice Fever

    high confidence · Alan, discussing Artist of the Year nominees

  • Only one licensed game was released in 1985: Chicago Cubs Triple Play

Notable Quotes

  • “1985 is a strange year as pinball had drastically downsized their operations at all companies. In 1980, the pinball market was at its peak. By 1985, the manufacturers had downsized their offerings massively.”

    Alan @ ~3:00 — Establishes the historical context for 1985 as an industry downturn year, setting up the analysis

  • “Steve Ritchie even left pinball for the first time. But a new manufacturer, Gameplan, also emerged... they really started to ramp up their full-size pinball production in 1984 and of course this year 1985 in what might quite possibly have been the worst time to ramp up American Pinball manufacturing line since maybe the start of world war ii”

    Alan @ ~3:30 — Highlights the business irony of Gameplan's expansion timing during industry contraction

  • “If you ever see a captain hook or a bounty hunter you need to go and play them because they are very fun games very interesting games”

    Alex @ ~42:00 — Endorsement of lesser-known 1985 titles, encouraging discovery of niche games

  • “The Comet spawned a trilogy very important game in the history of pinball”

    Alan @ ~42:30 — Recognition of The Comet's lasting franchise impact despite not winning Game of the Year

  • “Sorcerer's a rad game. Yeah. And it's super fun and it's not as exploitable as other games.”

    Alex @ ~30:00 — Reasoning for Sorcerer's superiority in software design category

  • “Andromeda... has a fucking sick art package. Unbelievable art package. The best art package that the legendary Paul Faris ever did.”

    Alan @ ~10:00 — Praise for Paul Faris's Andromeda artwork, winning art category despite game being rarely played publicly

  • “That Fireball Arcade well that bally went to anytime they needed to drum up revenue was Fireball Arcade that name the theme it was just like a man throwing balls of fire at you yeah he's on fire how that just resonated so hard”

    Alex @ ~41:00 — Analysis of Fireball Arcade's franchise appeal and simple, effective theming

Entities

AlanpersonAlexpersonPaul FarispersonPam EricksonpersonLarry DaypersonMark RitchiepersonSteve RitchiepersonJohn TrudeaupersonBarry Ousler

Signals

  • ?

    historical_signal: 1985 marked significant industry downsizing across all major manufacturers after 1980 market peak; Gameplan's expansion during this contraction was described as potentially worst-timed manufacturing decision since WWII

    high · Alan: 'By 1985, the manufacturers had downsized their offerings massively. Steve Ritchie even left pinball for the first time.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Fireball Arcade theme demonstrated exceptional franchise appeal, leading to multiple sequels and versions; Bally consistently returned to this IP when revenue drumming was needed

    high · Alan: 'they just like kept running that shit back... that name the theme it was just like a man throwing balls of fire at you... how that just resonated so hard'

  • $

    market_signal: The Comet sold 8,000+ units and spawned a successful trilogy, making it commercially dominant despite Sorcerer being retrospectively considered superior in design and gameplay

    high · Alan: 'it sold over 8,000 units' and 'it launched two more sequels... a trilogy of games that did so well'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Beat the Clock introduced time-based gameplay as innovative alternative to traditional ball-count mechanics; hosts suggest alternate history where pinball was entirely time-based could be equally viable

    medium · Alex: 'in an alternate reality where instead of we got three balls, pinball was always a time-based game... it would be maybe, arguably, just as good'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: 1985 was characterized by limited mechanical gimmickry and sound storage limitations; designers used synthesizer chips and experimented with sci-fi sound effects due to ROM constraints

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.129

0:00
Who will be the pinball machine? Sometimes can't say, oh, who will be Pinball Machine? Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. My name is Alan, your host of the show, one of the owners of Wedgehead, a pinball bar in Portland, Oregon. Joined in the basement studio, my trusty co-host, Alex the Waterboy. How are you doing? I'm doing good. My name is Alex. I'm one half of the owner of this house. You know, you throw it to me in a way I don't get to do any. I don't ever, you know, I just have to stick to the script every time now. We're getting too formulaic. But I will say it's my turn to plug the coffee. We don't have a theme song. So I always think like the intro is like the old happy time theme song on a sitcom. So people know where they're at. Okay. Well, it's, you know, and it's great because it's my turn to plug the coffee account. That's right. Right. Back in the saddle. Yeah. you know i love it it's why i come here for those aren't aware uh you know if you like this show we put out an episode every week alan works hard on them i work hard on these coffee intros you want to support both of us you can go throw us a few bucks on our coffee account that's ko-fi.com slash wedgehead podcast and most importantly when you support us on there you get an invite to our discord server where you can come chop it up with us in the gang it's getting out of control it's getting it's getting too much frankly it's wild there's a lot of discussion if you are someone that works in an office job and you are a little too productive and you think your employer doesn't deserve that you should join the discord and uh you gotta cut back your work a little bit come in and chop it up with us you deserve a little you deserve a little break get in the discord you'll start arguing with greg dunlap for fucking eight hours yep it's great it's a really it's actually been a lot of fun and i'm happy that so many people are you know enjoying hanging out with us in there and bullshitting about pinball anyway that's not what we're here for what are we here for alan well today it's the second edition of our pinball hindsight awards the only award show that actually attempts to get all the words correct using the mighty telescope of time past to clarify and distinguish what games have actually stood the test of time and what games were merely popular in their day and then promptly forgotten about. So in our inaugural hindsight awards, we looked at the year of 1990, which was a year packed full of different manufacturers and 17 different and unique titles that were released that year. For this second edition, the great supporters of the show, in all their questionable judgment, chose the year 1985 as the year they wanted to be honored next. I want to explain that I presented the Discord with like the four shittiest years that I could identify past the like the solid state introduction of solid state technology in pinball. 1985, I think like 2011 or like I can't remember is like these would be considered in this was the one that the people wanted to hear about. So 1985 is a strange year as pinball had drastically downsized their operations at all companies. In 1980, the pinball market was at its peak. By 1985, the manufacturers had downsized their offerings massively. Steve Ritchie even left pinball for the first time. But a new manufacturer, Gameplan, also emerged. They started in 1978, but mostly made little sit-down coffin-shaped pinball machines that we call cocktail machines. But for whatever reason, they really started to ramp up their full-size pinball production in 1984. and of course this year 1985 in what might quite possibly have been the worst time to ramp up a pinball manufacturing line since maybe the start of world war ii yeah you're like the industry's shrinking drastically let's boot up the company let's go but without further ado let's get to the list of all the eligible games for the pinball hindsight awards of 1985 the first one is andromeda from Game Plan.

high confidence · Alan, awarding Best Licensed Game to Chicago Cubs Triple Play unopposed

  • “I think this is the game that if you were to pull most pinball heads if they had to buy one game... it's going to be Sorcerer more times than any other games released this year.”

    Alan @ ~48:00 — Justification for Sorcerer as Game of the Year based on community preference

    • person
    Python Angheloperson
    Dave Orozskaperson
    Ed Suchockiperson
    Bill Futzenruderperson
    Brian Bolatowskiperson
    John Burrisperson
    Doug Watsonperson
    AJperson
    Wedgehead American Pinballcompany
    Williamscompany
    Bally/Bally Midwaycompany
    Gottlieb/Premierecompany
    Gameplancompany

    high · Alan: 'So they're using small synthesizer chips on the boards, but they're just having programmers just wildly experiment. That's why you have all those cool science fiction type sounds on all these games.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Only one licensed game released in 1985 (Chicago Cubs Triple Play); licenses had not yet become dominant strategy; most games were original or unlicensed IP-inspired themes

    high · Alan: 'best licensed game this year we have a comprehensive list for this one... running unopposed on this ticket as the only licensed game released this year'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steve Ritchie, a key designer, left the pinball industry in 1985, marking a significant talent loss during industry contraction

    medium · Alan: 'Steve Ritchie even left pinball for the first time'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Sorcerer's reputation has grown substantially since 1985 release; now considered most desirable game from that year by community despite not being best-seller at time

    high · Alan: 'It has grown in popularity since its release... if you were to pull most pinball heads... it's going to be Sorcerer more times than any other games released this year'

  • ?

    industry_signal: 1985 saw Williams, Bally, Gottlieb/Premiere, and Gameplan all competing; Gottlieb dominated output with multiple designers and artists producing multiple titles per year

    high · Alan: 'the guys working for Gottlieb have three games every year... Trudeau did three playfields... larry day did fucking three art packages'

  • ?

    product_concern: Early solid-state era struggled with sound storage limitations on ROM; budget cuts forced designers to work within severe constraints, leading to synthesized rather than sampled sound

    high · Alan: 'storage is a problem. So you can't sample music or have lots of sound calls because you can't store them on the ROMs'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Tag Team introduced team play feature allowing two-player cooperative teams in four-player format (two vs. two); early example of cooperative game design

    high · Alex: 'it had a team play feature... you can play a four-player game two on each'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Captain Hook and Bounty Hunter are underplayed titles that hosts encourage community to seek out; Andromeda remains private collection property (owned by AJ in Pueblo) and rarely appears in public play

    high · Alex: 'you need to go and play them because they are very fun games' and Alan: 'he's also scared to put it in public so nobody can argue with him'

    • 4:41
    Beat the Clock by Bally Midway. Bounty Hunter Premiere. Captain Hook Game Plan. Chicago Cubs Triple Play Premiere.
    5:24
    Comet Williams. Cybernaut, Bally Midway. Cyclops, Game Plan. eight ball champ bally midway you've got the solids sink the one ball four balls make the one ball seven balls
    6:21
    Fireball Classic, Valley Midway. Ice Fever, Premiere. Sorcerer Williams. Sorcerer. And Tag Team from Premiere.
    7:15
    Okay, gotta say, I started this, I literally did go to chat, GPT, asked for the worst year in pinball, because I was like, well, I kept thinking of exceptions. And I was like, what does the computer say? What do our overlords think? What does the computer say is the worst year in pinball? When I see this list, I'm like, there's a lot of good shit in there, man. Like 1985 is kind of a good year. So I'm glad we picked this one because it's not too depressing. As far as should we just get right into it? Are we going to just launch right into our categories here? Yeah, let's go. OK, we're going to start this off with best art package. The nominees are Fireball Classic with Doug Watson on the art. Paul Ferris' work on Andromeda and Pam Erickson on Sorcerer. And the winner of the best art package of 1985 is Andromeda by Paul Ferris. Okay. This is a close one. This was a controversial one with the judges. Even with the power of hindsight. It's hard to tell. Really hard to tell because all three of these are fantastic art packages. Fireball is an all-time, I mean, well, it's literally classic in this sense, but it's like an all-time classic art package. And it was updated for this, so it's this unique update of the classic game, but in the same vein, but it's updated and looks gorgeous. But we'll just say not near the top two because it's been done before. Yes, it doesn't look of 1985 to me. Sorcerer by Pam Erickson. Phenomenal art package that is just the plastics work and the play field and the way it works together. Very D&D tabletop role playing. Very cool character design. It does not look like a generic fantasy game. It has a lot of its own flavor packed into it. It's cool. Very, very cool forest fantasy, ivy and shit. It's a good look. I really like that art package. It's incredible. I really was having a hard time letting anything beat Sorcerer. And then we started talking about Andromeda. And you're like, well, Andromeda, like you think of the art with Andromeda. You think of art first on that game. If you've ever seen the game Andromeda, you won't ever forget it. And when people talk about this game, it's a low production game plan game. Yeah, I'm told it's I'm told it's a good game. I don't know. AJ always is saying our buddy AJ in Pueblo is always saying that there's a good game, but he's also scared to put it in public so nobody can argue with him.
    9:35
    So until the game makes it out into public, I don't think anybody knows if it's a good game. What we do know is that it has a fucking sick art package. Unbelievable art package for my money. The best art package that the legendary Paul Ferris ever did. So I think we're going to give the award contested award contested, but we're giving it to Andromeda. Andromeda, Paul Ferris. Yeah, well earned. Speaking of Paul Ferris, the next category is Most Unnecessarily Horny Game. I think this category could be kind of named after Paul Ferris, actually. Paul Ferris category. We should just have the Paul Ferris Award. The Paul Ferris Award for Most Unnecessarily Horny Game. The nominees are Andromeda, Cybernaut, and Cyclops. so cyclops made it in here but in my opinion i'd have to look back at cyclops it's kind of like it's not like horny it's kind of like cutesy it's kind of a little weird go look at it let me pull it up let me go look at it the power of hindsight right now i'm going off of the power of my memory okay yeah it a little weird it a little weird it a little unnecessary and i guess that is the It a little unnecessarily horny In Andromeda though it Cybernauts Cybernaut has again in the style of the day there is a female featured prominently. It's a sci-fi theme. She's standing next to an alien creature, and she is scantily clad for no reason at all. No, that's just what armor looks like in the future. We know that. In the 80s, the armor was... She's dressed up as a warrior. She's holding a giant space gun, but she's basically naked, you know, as was the style at the time. Andromeda, though, kind of has like a total recall type situation going on where you're like, oh, it's a weird alien. But like, you know, she's a babe. Got like weird like bat lion creatures. The bat lion dog things are cool. This is just going back to this winning art package of the year. It's a fucking cool. It's so cool. but it is so cool like the cleavage on the playfields definitely a bit much it's all a bit much but it's very very cool uh see i have a hard time calling this unnecessary seems tasteful for paul tastefully horny art package it still won the award still won the award okay it's five you know they had toned down a lot of the other competition so paul gets it okay brings us to our last art based category artist of the year the nominees are pam erickson for her work on sorcerer very talented artist which we saw more from her paul ferris uh his just did on dromeda this year and larry day with the fucking triple threat of tag team bounty hunter and ice fever yeah he was the artist for premiere during this time in tag team bounty hunter and ice fever all have very cool very unique art packages for all these games ice fever is very white it's got very angular cartoonish drawings of hockey players by far the best looking hockey game ever made oh it's amazing i would love a nice fever it's amazing it's crazy that larry dated all three of these because the art style across all three is very unique none of them look like none of them look like each other but none of them really look like other pinball machines bounty hunter one of the brownest games of all time yeah and that was based on an old french comic book i guess it looks so sick though bounty hunter is a game that i saw online long before i got to play it and i was like that thing's rad tag team's another game that i saw online i was like that thing's rad before i ever played it then you got one at wedge confirmed it was very rad very cool game congratulations larry day you're the winner of artist of the year i expect he's happy to hear that we're respecting his you know finally setting the record straight these got leaves especially of this era got leaves were kind of sliding down in public reputation now but these games are really good this is like the like a really fun era of got leaves yes we'll get into that i guess later that's what we're talking about the art though and the art was also phenomenal okay getting into physical things not just this uh like uh hippie bullshit art we're getting into mechs and gimmicks i guess gimmicks is kind of like i'm like defending gimmicks i'm like this is a real real category gimmicks okay So the nominees for best mech slash gimmicks are Fireball Classic, Beat the Clock, and Ice Fever. So this was the era where there was not quite yet a lot of mechanical gimmicks on the games. Mechanical features outside the norm. But Fireball Classic has its spinning disc. Yeah, that Fireball Classic, for anyone listening unaware, Fireball was a late Bally-Ems. it's a zipper flipper bally uh em i guess it's not crazy late for a bally it's like a mid-70s game and uh the fireball classic is a slightly tweaked updated version of that in solid state form without zipper flippers yeah standard three inch flippers other than that the playfield's pretty much the same correct very similar yeah it is tweaked but it's similar yeah it's crazy because the original firepower or fireball and why they brought it back and why they made a sequel and everything is it was a massive hit and it's because it's fucking loaded with this also got to be said that there was also a fireball 2 in between this and then there was a fireball home yeah so they kept going back to this it was in i i really think i mean it looked cool but i really think it's because it was absolutely loaded with toys in the classic just being an updated version of that is like loaded with unique shit too including those spinning desks and i would say gimmicks we got beat the clock because it's a time-based game so that's very rare to see a time-based game and then we also have ice fever which has an animated back box animation of you scoring a goal and it's got a very interesting set of drop targets with a captive ball behind it so it does have a shot where you shoot past the goalie into the goal and that's pretty cool especially for the time it's definitely cool but it's not enough to win this category who is the winner winner's fireball classic because it's got the spinning disc the physical ball locks and a very interesting skill shot very interesting skill shot it's a weird one so congratulations fireball classic you win best mechs and gimmicks of 1985 next category most innovative nominees are ice fever for the goal scoring beat the clock for its timed play and tag team for its light ball saves with ball saves locked on the play field and it also had a team play feature on this game so before cooperator play they invented team play feature which means you can play a four-player game two on each it is interesting it's thematic especially on tag team i gotta say 1985 not feeling like a particularly innovative year these are what our options are i think there's one that It is particularly innovative. And that's our winner, Beat the Clock, because unlike most other pinball machines, they try to do something different. Not just balls in play. It is innovative. It is timed. It's not particularly impactful on the long. There have been a handful of other timed games since then. But it is definitely innovative for the time. It's definitely different. It is a cool game once you can, like, figure out how it works. That game is actually a lot of fun. So, yeah, I think that's earned. I think that's deserved. Beat the Clock. Very cool game. Very innovative game. Honestly, I think, you know, pinball could, you know. You think timed games could come back? No, I don't think they could come back because I think people don't like things to change that much. But I just think that, like, in an alternate reality where instead of we got three balls, pinball was always a time-based game or it had harder edges, it would be maybe, arguably, better. Yeah. Or just as good. It would definitely be different. You would definitely get very different layouts and stuff, I feel like, if everything was timed. It would be really interesting. The best sound package of the year. The nominees are Sorcerer, Comet, and Rock. Godly Rock was in 1985? Yes, it was. Did we read that in the intro? Oh, no. I must have skipped it in the eligible games. You were just waiting to surprise me with Rock. I, you know, now that you say that, I'm like, yeah, I knew it was 85 because I always think about how it's only one year before high speed and those games could not be more different.
    18:14
    Yeah. Gottlieb Rock is definitely, definitely a notable sound package. I was going to say, I don't really know the sound packages from this era super well, but I know rock sound package painfully well as anyone that's owned a rock does. you know every beat of that like bass track that starts on every ball because you get the instruments as you uh the additional instruments come in as you clear drop banks or whatever it's mind-numbing it drives me insane i've had that game in my house too long it adds one instrument at a time until you complete features on the play field but for its day very notable groundbreaking it doesn't like annoy the first like 100 times you play the game it's not that annoying yeah it's just like when you've heard it enough you've kind of heard it enough so This era, though, is there's not a lot of good sound packages. This was the time when they're cutting back resources. Yeah. Of course, sound's going. Of course, it's also early on the solid state era. So storage is a problem. So you can't sample music or have lots of sound calls because you can't store them on the ROMs. So they're using small synthesizer chips on the boards, but they're just having programmers just wildly experiment. That's why you have all those cool science fiction type sounds on all these games. Yeah, it's like it's interesting because it's like we made it past just like the simple beeps and boops of like early solid states. and then they're like kind of like but then it's like they got the budget cuts but they like are still trying for like complicated sound because they're like we can't go back and you're like going back probably would have been the right call for a lot of games sorcerer does sound pretty good though i think yeah but the game that you think is the winner this year what is it comet comet by williams it's got to be it's just got some kind of sound calls that are that are good especially compared to every other game released this year it's got some good music in there comet's probably the best-selling game of this year i don't have done by far the best-selling game of this year it's because it's barry asler and the man who had to move units but it probably is big part because that sound package dude yep the sound package was great the winner best sound package of 1985 is comet okay on to something you know a little more tangible again software the best software of 1985. Our nominees are Dave Orezpka and Ed Scocci I should have had you read these names off first We Sorcerer You want to take the next one Bill Futzenruder and Brian Bolatowski for Comet and John Burris for Tag Team I could have pronounced that. I could have done John Burris cold.
    21:41
    And the winner is... Wait, wait, wait. So Sorcerer, Comet, and Tag Team. Best Software. Yes. The winner is Dave Rebska and Ed Suchocki for their work on Sorcerer.
    21:54
    I think that when you look back now through the power of hindsight, most pinball players go Sorcerer's a rad game. Yeah. And it's super fun and it's not as exploitable as other games. Yep. I actually think that the tag team rule set is actually really good. and it does give you options on how to play it. They're basically, it's a binary. You can just kind of like, you know, flip to light the spinner and rip the spinner, but you can actually get good points out of locking for your multi-ball. Yeah. There is something going on. I think the ball lock in the, like, play field multiplier during multi-ball, I think that's a handle. I really like that rule set on tag team, but I do think sorcerer kind of holds up better. I'm saying that without knowing the sorcerer rules very well. I've just kind of been going off of what other people have told me. in my overall positive experience with the game. No, Sorcerer rips. Comet has to be on here just because of what an iconic seller it was and how famous it was and how it launched a trio of games. Very successful game, but it does have some scoring imbalances that I think it gets nominated, but the win has got to go to Sorcerer, best software of the year. You don't think any of the George Christian games should be on here? the beat the clock or uh eight ball champ i don't know eight ball champs i think both of them are great but again i think it's just like lasting impact worthy yeah not as noteworthy like people remember sorcerer i i just would say that the software guys did well trying to man i have to imagine doing a time-based game in 1985 was a little more difficult than it would be now yeah and i thought it was executed really well yeah so that game's super fun but yeah i'm not going to argue with it going to sorcerer that's a good game we got to go on to theme integration and the best theme integration nominees are ice fever comet and sorcerer okay so ice fever does feel pretty hockey-ish with the way you get to like shoot the goals at the bank the the captive ball back behind the drop targets sorcerer i feel like the theme integration the art package is doing a lot of heavy lifting on that for theme integration it does feel sorcery-esque you know but uh i don't know if it's necessarily like anything on the game it's in the it's the art and the music yeah i feel like it comes together which is fair but it's at this era without toys and gimmicks and stuff and and a screen and one that i think does really sum it up on that list and it's our winner comet it's got to be comet it's got to be comet dude it does have like the toys and it does have it feels thematic and it's got the python angelo insane art package on there feels like a theme park if you were having the worst trip of your entire life yeah it's it feels like you're at a theme park it feels like you're at kind of a carnival comet is the roller coaster yeah so best theme integration winner comet
    25:01
    big category up next designer of the year nominees are everyone's favorite human being in pinball john trudeau for her tag team ice fever and rock yeah up next it's an actual people's favorite Mark Ritchie for Sorcerer. And Barry Ousler and Python Angelo for Comet.
    25:31
    I don't like what you put down for a winner here. The winner. This isn't what we like here. I got the envelope. You know, right now I'm just doing an Oscars thing where I read the envelope and you see my disappointment before I read it. But the winner is Barry Ousler, Python Angelo for Comet. And I note, unlike any other of the winners, you put a little, like, extra thing on here because you know I wouldn't be happy. And you said it sold over 8,000 units, which is true. And so objectively, it sold the best. With the power of hindsight, though, was this the best design? And it launched two more sequels. It launched a trilogy of games that did so well. And they all sold pretty well. People liked them, but I don't. Yeah, this is about what we like. Yeah, this is what the awards are. Stop stealing Barry Ousler's moment here. I don't know why you're such a Barry Ousler hater. on the show dude just let the man have his moment i just he deserves it again i'm always blown away it's just funny how it's like the guys working for gottlieb have three games every year you're just like oh yeah those like like larry day did fucking three art packages trudeau did three playfields and i'm like i actually like all three of these playfields quite a bit i love that so here's the thing if it wasn't john trudeau you might win designer of the year i had to mention it just because it sticks out but like hey that's the power of hindsight it's the power of hindsight just not give an award because otherwise we'd have to be like should we strip john trudeau's award away now we don't have to because we have the power of hindsight so we're going to mention that he designed some pretty fun games we're not going to give him an award for it yeah fuck you john trudeau meanwhile though mark ritchie i do think sorcerer is fucking awesome this was his second game he did firepower 2 in the sorcerer dude what like good second f what a good start to your career yeah it's good i mean it goes downhill quick road kings is next but it's really good right now yeah okay so our nominees for best original themes i'm doing this live right now i want to call some stuff in that hasn't won other awards just for discussion's sake so i'm going to bring in captain hook bounty hunter and cyclops oh interesting Three games that nobody ever really talks about the themes for, and I think all three of those are cool, unique themes. They are very cool, unique. Okay, this is just a little subcategory. I guess we can go into the real, because we're supposed to be doing what would actually win. Yeah, this is supposed to be. Amongst those three, what do you think is the best? I want to play Cyclops the most. Well, I want to play Cyclops, but it's also the sickest theme. Yeah, I think Bounty Hunter's probably the best theme. Bounty Hunter's the coolest. art the bounty hunter art package really does sell it and it's fun to play it's cool it's fun to play cool okay as far as what i think would actually be on the ticket for best original themes i mean these are almost all original themes so probably the best sellers which would be like fireball classic comet and sorcerer sorcerer probably yeah if we're going with best for best sellers for this so of those three drum roll what do you think is the best original theme winner i think it's sorcerer i think it's sorcerer i think it's the coolest i wouldn't argue with that personally yeah but with the power of hindsight the other games one spawned a trilogy one spawned a quadrilogy so i'm giving it to fireball yeah good call classic good call they made so many fucking versions of fireball they just like kept running that shit back that was like the well that bally went to anytime they needed to drum up money was fireball that name the theme it was just like a man throwing balls of fire at you yeah he's on fire how that just resonated so hard that people were like holy shit i will buy anything that says fireball on it so i'm giving it to fireball 1985 best original theme that's not a theme that was invented yeah it's a rehash it's not even original it's it's a remake of an original theme that's actually true shit okay sorcerer sorcerer wins sorcerer wins dude because see this is how we should do all the categories completely live like this okay best licensed game this year we have a comprehensive list for this one the nominees are chicago cubs triple play who's the winner the winner is chicago cubs triple play running unopposed on this ticket as the only licensed game released this year.
    30:24
    So licenses hadn't taken off in 1985. It's very notable we got one, and it's really notable that this isn't just like an MLB licensed game. It's a Chicago Cubs game. Yeah. It's fucking weird. We were talking about this before we got on air, and this is a unique layout. It's kind of like recycling bits and bobs of other Gottlieb games. Gottlieb EM games from yesteryear. It's got like upper two inch like mini flippers like up top that serve no functional purpose. Just there to threaten you like an old like an old Gottlieb would. It's a bizarre little game. I've never played one. I would be interested in it. I imagine if you're a Chicago Cubs fan, this is like the fucking holy grail. This would be cool. If you're a Cubs fan, you should find one of these. Like, just like I imagine you would be like, oh, yeah, yeah, run a fucking Cubs game for sure. I would love that game. I would love to have that game. Yeah, it's fun. I've only played a few times, but I've had fun playing it every time. Yeah. So very deserved win at the Chicago Cubs triple play their best licensed game in 1985. You did it. So the next theme where there's a little bit more competition, best knockoff licensed game. The nominees 1985 best knockoff game are Bounty Hunter, Comet and Captain Hook. Yes. So Captain Hook was unlicensed, but obviously is a famous character based on Jamberry's Peter Pan. Is that what Captain Hook's really like sourced from? Yes. Oh, I didn't realize that. So but it's a game playing game that they didn't secure the license for. Comet was also supposed to be based on the local amusement park in Chicago. They decided not to do that because they didn want any liability Yeah Which is probably good because they sold like 8 000 of these so it like this was like a smash hit so they went with a generic name for wooden roller coasters many wooden roller coasters are called the comet or they were at the time so they called this game comet and the other one is bounty hunter which i mentioned earlier i saw an ipdb listing that larry day said it was based on an old french comic book and that's where he based the art style on and that's why the game looks like that so obviously it's not licensed but it has a clear inspiration of a previous piece of art and the winner i think has just got to be comet because the other games are weirdo games that hopefully you'll see at some point in your pinball lives and if you ever see a captain hook or a bounty hunter you need to go and play them because they are very fun games very interesting games but comet of course spawned a trilogy very important game in the history of pinball and it wins best knockoff licensed game quite surprisingly we always think that this is basically the honorary gottlieb category gottlieb game doesn't win it loses to a williams game yeah that is kind of noteworthy this is the gottlieb category meanwhile gottlieb has the only licensed game this year isn't that bizarro world dude it's fucking up is down you know 1985 weird time for pinball okay the penultimate category here best game of the year the nominees you know them you love them it's comet sorcerer and fireball classic i think we should have like a most underrated game of the year too because i want to talk about some more of the games that came out this year i think yeah but as far as the actual best game of the year the one that kind of has all of the accolades to back it up really has stood the test of time what do you say in the winner is it's got to be sorcerer and sorcerer alone i think this is the game that if you were to pull most pinheads if they had to buy one game or they could get any game in their action or whatever it's going to be sorcerer more times than any other games released this year. It has grown in popularity since its release. I don't know its popularity then. It's sold fairly well for these dark times, but obviously not as much as Comet. But I think in the years past, as players have grown to appreciate it, seen and played Sorcerer in competitions, you'll see a Sorcerer thrown into competitions now, which is always a good, whether or not you're a tournament player, it's always a good indicator of how a game is perceived moving forward if it's deemed still yeah viable exactly if it's viable and interning still you're like oh they do like this is like a game without any glaring exploits both like play field physical and uh software wise yeah it's a good sign for it the fact it's got a sick art pack it's like a sick art package a good sound package it's a really good overall game i would say yeah sorcerer rad game well deserving a game of the year 1985 yeah some i'd give some honorary shout out to andromeda aj insists that thing's good again i can't actually say but it does look cool cyclops the only game on this list designed by a former guest of the show roger sharp another game i haven't played also looks really sick it's got a pop low down on the play field which roger liked to do it looks really good i would really like to get a cyclops if another one pops up it's the kind of game that comes up for sale like once every two years yeah i would say other notable games eight ball champ is genuinely a good game i don't game i don't like the art package at all on it in a way that it's like bizarrely off-putting because i'm like i look at it i'm like i don't think it's necessary it's just really not what i'm into it's kind of like uh they also did a speakeasy game george christian i just don't like those themes it's like they took the pool themes and then made them like corny victorian shit and i just it rubs me the wrong way that they took a cool thing like eight ball deluxe looks yeah you like the dusty western bar vibe yeah from western and it's like probably just a reflection of the markets they were trying to sell the pins to and what was popular at the time and stuff but it just it bugs me when you've seen eight ball and eight ball deluxe and how cool those are and then you go to like eight ball champ and i'm like ah like he's got the little like the little fucking uh the bands on his sleeves to keep you know you're like what is this like i don't like it so he's wearing a vest shooting pool and a vest and a college shirt yeah it's too hoity-toity for me but it is a pretty good game yes like i think of the ones i'm like i get why they're not on the official list they're not really like official runner-ups but I think those are honorary mentions for good overall games. I love beat the clock. I would love to have a beat the clock. Um, just play more regularly. And I love ice fever. I would love an ice fever. I think that game is just beautiful.
    37:19
    I don't know if I described it as beautiful, but it's very cool. It's just fucking cool, man. And I love hockey and I love the way they did hockey. It's like tag team where you're like, this is, it's not just like, Oh, this is like wrestling. Like they could have just phoned it in and just like, done a generic hockey looking game and you're like no they made it look like a hockey it looks like like mighty ducks art or something you know it looks cool it's very cool very stylized very cool and it's a fun game shelves okay and so that wraps up kind of all of the unimportant awards and we get to the real award why everyone comes here best topper of the year there's a problem though 1985 it's one of the worst years of pinball and we've now realized that's because there were no toppers this year oh is that why it's why dude and that sounds crazy you're laughing 1984 the pinball industry was in a dark place williams needed to sell some set amount of units or they were going to fucking close down right and barry ausler famously created space shuttle and saved the industry when they put a big fucking plastic space shuttle under the glass that served no purpose but it got kids put their game in the dollars and their money in the game right yeah You know what else Space Shuttle had?
    38:32
    It had a fucking topper. Oh! Well... It has a little topper. There you go. It's just a little plexiglass topper, but it has one. And that game saved the industry. 1985, all these dog shit games, no toppers. 1986, when people are like, the industry's coming back, two games come to mind. When you think of the year 1986, two games come to mind. You're talking both units and lasting impact in just, like, cool fucking games. It is... High Speed, Pinbot, both of them, Toppers. Can't argue with that. Did Toys and Ramps and System 11 save the industry, or did Toppers save the industry?
    39:12
    So, everyone laughing about it? Everyone, you know, if you don't take Toppers seriously, that's why it's the last award. We got to give out the award for Toppers. Alex insisted. You fail to learn history, right? You're doomed to repeat it. and if you don't include toppers on your games the industry will fail stern knows it stern's in a free fall at the moment right they see the writing on the wall do you know what they just released new budget toppers it's because they're looking at 1984 they're looking at 1986 and they're seeing how things played out they don't want to be in 1985 they're trying to get back to the golden era where we get fucking toppers hold up let him cook all all this great insight and further is can be found in our pinball discord which you will get a link to if you like the show and donate to ko-fi.com yeah more importantly you can come in there correct us on these categories this is these are these episodes are really really fun now that we have a community of people that will argue about us with shit oh yeah so get in the discord if you want to argue with us otherwise you can you know argue with us in person you just have to otherwise you can argue with a fucking wall dude like i don't care you can walk the streets and scream to yourself about it they can fly to portland argue at wedge in person that's good too you will be 86 thrown out like uh uncle phil used to throw jazzy jeff out of the fucking mansion on the fresh prince that wraps up our 1985 awards comet was uh unfortunately a winner in a lot of these sorcerer the fan favorite but a lot of surprisingly fun games in here along the way yeah actually not as bad of a year as you would think not a bad year at all and you see that a lot is that the years that were shit a lot of the time have good games trickling out it's just not almost like pinball is fun it almost almost like there's fun to be had wait until we all pinball until we do the year 2000 or 99 all right well we want to thank you for listening to another episode of the wedgehead pinball podcast and until next time use the pinball map go find some of these games from 1985 go out and play one of them and come argue with us in the discord about all the selections even though they're official and binding so the awards have already been sent out yeah they've already been sent out uh they're getting returned to us as you are listening to this episode because these addresses are from 40 years ago and they're all getting returned to senders but the plaques were ordered they were shipped out so until next time good luck don't suck
    42:16
    I forgot to mention this in the John Papaduke episode. You might just have to cut this because we're rambling now. But I really want to use the fucking Eyewitness theme song. Those video intros, you might not have caught this. You're a little bit older than me. But when it's flying through the CGI museum, it's like... Oh yeah, we could do that. Because it'll just be like a deep dive on John Papaduke. That'd be good. You don't have to put the whole song in. I could put that in. like 10 seconds of it yeah sorry should we restart this episode i just wanted i was like fuck i meant to say that earlier i forgot to bring it up