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The Pinball Show Ep 70: Steve Ritchie Hired At Jersey Jack & Lamenting Lyman Leaving

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 17m·analyzed·Aug 2, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Steve Ritchie joins JJP; Lyman F. Sheats Jr. leaves Stern amid design/code shakeup.

Summary

Jersey Jack Pinball hired legendary designer Steve Ritchie from Stern, while coder Lyman F. Sheats Jr. also reportedly departed Stern for unknown destinations. The hosts discuss implications for both companies' design philosophies and production capacity. Additional news covers manufacturing delays at Stern Accessories, custom Grogu mods for Mandalorian, and early sightings of Ultraman: Kaiju Rumble (SE) and Halloween machines.

Key Claims

  • Steve Ritchie has left Stern Pinball and joined Jersey Jack Pinball effective immediately

    high confidence · Ken Rodberg correspondent segment confirms the move after weeks of rumors

  • Lyman F. Sheats Jr. has left Stern Pinball for unknown destination

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby cites 'multiple reliable sources' but Sheets' destination and employment status remain unconfirmed

  • JJP is offering GNR playfield replacements at $499 (main) and $119 (mini) to dealers, shipping summer 2022

    high confidence · Dennis Creasel reports direct outreach to JJP dealer network with specific pricing and serial number requirement

  • Steve Ritchie has been with Stern for nearly 20 years

    high confidence · Ken Rodberg's correspondent segment provides career history

  • Lyman F. Sheats Jr. recently finished coding work on Elvira's House of Horrors (Premium/LE) of Horrors

    high confidence · Craig Bobby correspondent segment

  • Stern Accessories delayed Avengers, TMNT, and Iron Maiden figurines due to parts delays

    high confidence · Zach Minney production update from Stern Accessories

  • Joe Abate completed a moving/talking Grogu mod for Mandalorian that fits Stern's cabinet space

    high confidence · Craig Bobby correspondent segment; mod reportedly detailed for DIY community with potential accessory kit

Notable Quotes

  • “Variously known as the Master of Flow and the King, Ritchie has a storied pinball career. He's designed fan favorites such as Firepower, Black Knight, High Speed, and Star Trek: Star Trek: The Next Generation for Williams, and ACDC, Game of Thrones, Star Trek, Star Wars, and most recently Led Zeppelin for Stern.”

    Ken Rodberg @ ~7:15 — Establishes Steve Ritchie's legendary status and design portfolio across multiple manufacturers

  • “This could be a great thing for Jersey Jack, with many of their machines being criticized by some for their lack of flow.”

    Ken Rodberg @ ~7:40 — Frames rationale for JJP's interest in Ritchie—directly addresses JJP's design philosophy gap

  • “I could see why Steve would want to do the move. I'm just more confused why JJP would want him.”

    Zach Minney @ ~12:45 — Articulates the hosts' skepticism about the business logic behind JJP's hire

  • “They're saying you have to buy the repair...People that are being told they need to pay $500 to fix something they think should never have broken in the first place will not be happy.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~20:30 — Interprets JJP's playfield discount as inadequate remedy for quality issues rather than genuine solution

  • “Lyman F. Sheats Jr. a big deal because that was – I mean, remember the whole logic that people like me had with why he was only on those boutiques and premium-style runs anymore after Walking Dead was, well, Lyman's name sells games.”

    Zach Minney @ ~30:15 — Explains Stern's strategic use of Lyman's reputation for premium products and the market impact of his departure

  • “Stern had the best guy in the game broadly considered, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., on rules, and the best designer in the game broadly seen, which is Keith Elwin. Lyman F. Sheats Jr. F. Sheats Jr. a big deal.”

    Zach Minney @ ~30:45 — Positions Lyman among Stern's critical competitive advantages; raises questions about replacement strategy

  • “I still am not convinced until I hear it from Lyman or I've got to hear it from the company that he joins.”

Entities

Steve RitchiepersonLyman F. Sheats Jr.personJersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyKen RodbergpersonCraig BobbypersonZach MinneypersonDennis Creasel

Signals

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steve Ritchie, legendary flow designer and 20-year Stern veteran, confirmed to have left Stern for Jersey Jack Pinball effective immediately

    high · Ken Rodberg correspondent segment confirmed the move after weeks of Reddit/forum rumors; Zach and Dennis discuss implications for both manufacturers' design direction

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Lyman Sheets, Stern's principal rules coder credited with Walking Dead, Batman, Elvira, reported to have left Stern for unknown destination

    medium · Craig Bobby cites 'multiple reliable sources' but Sheets has not publicly confirmed; destination and employment status remain speculative

  • ?

    industry_signal: Two of Stern's marquee talent (designer + coder) departing signals potential strategic vulnerability or talent dissatisfaction at manufacturer

    high · Hosts frame this as 'double whammy' and 'double whopper'; loss of Lyman described as bigger impact than Ritchie due to rules quality

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Steve Ritchie's hiring reflects JJP's apparent strategy to introduce flow-based design philosophy to counterbalance existing stop-and-go design portfolio

    medium · Ken Rodberg notes JJP 'criticized by some for their lack of flow'; Dennis speculates Ritchie at JJP could create 'Star Trek Next Gen-like' hybrid (fast/flowy with more mechs)

  • ?

    product_concern: JJP's Guns N' Roses experiencing widespread playfield defects requiring manufacturer-offered replacement program

    high · Discounted playfield replacement offer ($499 main, $119 mini vs. typical $800-1000) with serial number requirement indicates systemic quality failure; Dennis interprets as inadequate remedy

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.234

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. This week on The Pinball Show, the correspondents bring big industry changing news. We react to these changes in pinball moving forward. I present some updates to Stern Accessories' production timeline. We get a spooky Halloween and Ultraman sighting-ish. Roger Sharp gets a movie and talks with TPN's Final Round about licensing. We talk about Josh Sharp's appearance on a pinball podcast. Dennis actually gives Zach a big compliment. Holy sharp! And you get a cherry on the sundae with pinball market trends. Episode 70 is here and it's a big one for your ear holes Pinball is a game of skill For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle It's time for the Pinball Show It's pinball with personality
1:23
We're going to blast right into the pinball show episode 70 with your host, myself, Zach Minney, and Dennis Creasel from the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Dennis, how are you, my friend? Pew, pew.
1:36
That's the blasting. Oh, I thought you were laser blasts. In Texas again. No. People love when we talk about Texas pew-pews. Oh, do they? I think they do. Do they love when you put references to it in show notes? They love that, too.
1:52
Wink. wink emoji oh so good there's been a lot of news this last week uh that's my news uh news alert you've been doing anything uh fun exciting no oh i i stabbed my finger yesterday it's so sore what'd you do well i have been trying to figure out uh how to service watch movements that's right yeah so i had one apart and i was in the process of assembling and oiling components and you use these very fine needles for oiling i have them in a vertical stand and they have caps they have cats yeah for tools for it's enough you could probably insert an iv into an ant with as fine as these are wow well i did not recap one and i'm busy looking at peace and i just moved my arm and next thing i know this needle is hanging out of my finger through my glove uh it was deep i mean i just slammed it on there and so i didn't see any the needle so fine i didn't even see any blood but it is sore oh it got deep then yeah you got in the muscle yeah no no i could i could tell it was i was like because they're like acupuncture needles almost as fine as these are because you need to be able to use a capillary action just like uh certain blood draws will look at that have you ever had acupuncture no i've had acupuncture yeah i've uh i don't know if you know this i have a bad back and um it's from carrying all this pinball network stuff that's right that's a good one i like it now i had a acupuncture from a chiropractor and uh i was like you're sticking needles in me i thought you're gonna crack my nose and i'm gonna stick you with these needles what the hell is this yeah i have i have a bad back um years back i ruptured a disc i think wasn't bulging i've ruptured the whole damn thing they wanted me to do surgery and i was like no that's not gonna happen no i don't want to be better well no you just you know how back surgery is that you start with one and then you fuse another vertebrae and then you just keep fusing and then pretty soon you can't bend over no thanks so i get the acupuncture and put the shit in my ears and on my face and but here's the thing acupuncture wouldn't be too bad but when they hook electrodes up to it and in a shocking they did the shock you puncture that was horrible there's nothing relaxing or stimulating about that no it actually oh it didn't work the needles in your ears didn't fix your back huh discontinued that and terminated that treatment because it was making it worse oh science it didn't get me hard and there was nothing positive out of that situation. What does get me excited is this week's pretty profound shakeup of news. World event. I heard the correspondent segments they sent me, and I thought, oh, wow. You guys are doing your job nicely done. Yeah, good job for once.

Dennis Creasel @ ~28:00 — Expresses healthy skepticism about unconfirmed departure; notes Lyman's media-averse nature

  • “I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to go somewhere that was looking to do some more fundamental systemic stuff versus just coding a game.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~29:15 — Speculates on Lyman's potential motivations and what type of role might attract him elsewhere

    • person
    Joe Abateperson
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Pat Lawlorperson
    Eric Meunierperson
    Keith Elwinperson
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Mandaloriangame
    Elvira's House of Horrorsgame
    Halloweengame
    Ultramangame
    The Pinball Showorganization
    Stern Accessoriescompany
    Black Knight Sword of Ragegame
    Led Zeppelingame
    Eclectic Gamers Podcastorganization
    Keith P. Johnsonperson
  • $

    market_signal: Loss of Lyman Sheets signals potential scarcity of elite rules coders in market; Stern previously used Lyman's name to justify premium/LE pricing strategy

    medium · Zach notes 'Lyman's name sells games' and that Stern strategically placed him on expensive licenses; departure raises questions about Stern's competitive positioning

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern Accessories continuing to experience parts delays affecting figurines and toppers across multiple game lines (Avengers, TMNT, Iron Maiden, Mandalorian, Stranger Things, Jurassic Park, Deadpool)

    high · Zach Minney production update shows cascading delays; Avengers figurines pushed to October, multiple topper releases shifted 1-2 months

  • ?

    product_strategy: Uncertainty about when Steve Ritchie's first JJP game will release; hosts speculate 2025 given JJP's slow release cadence (never shipped two games within 12 months)

    medium · Zach jokes '2025?' then suggests it 'might be correct'; discussion of JJP's actual production pace vs. stated goals

  • ?

    competitive_signal: JJP's design portfolio lacks representation of pure flow-based games compared to Stern's historic strength; Ritchie hiring suggests attempt to expand market appeal

    medium · Dennis notes none of JJP games 'are described as fast and flowy'; Pat Lawler = stop-and-go, Eric Meunier = multiball-heavy carnival style; Ritchie = flow philosophy

  • ?

    leak_detection: Spooky Pinball's Ultraman and Halloween machines shown at Allentown expo with gameplay restrictions due to licensing approval pending

    high · Dr. John correspondent reports 'shaky phone footage' of Ultraman; one-ball gameplay allowed; Halloween feedback indicates early code stage; licensing prevents edited gameplay footage release

  • ?

    design_innovation: Joe Abate's moving/talking Grogu mod for Mandalorian demonstrates player dissatisfaction with static Grogu doll; mod fit seamlessly suggests potential production opportunity

    high · Craig Bobby describes mod as 'one of the most creative and exciting mods in some time'; Abate providing detailed DIY instructions and potential accessory kit; 'thousands' of potential customers

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Spooky Pinball's Haggis facility lockdown causing slow build pace and delayed Phantom Builds deliveries

    medium · Dr. John notes 'Haggis has just come out of lockdown, so build is slow as far as deliveries and materials go'; affecting Halloween and Ultraman production

    • 4:56
    Let's kick it over and see what they got. It's time for TPN Industry News. Hi, this is Ken Rodberg with your Jersey Jack update. Well, rumors have been swirling for the past week regarding Jersey Jack Pinball and one of Stern Pinball's premier designers, Steve Ritchie. Variously known as the Master of Flow and the King, Ritchie has a storied pinball career. He's designed fan favorites such as Firepower, Black Knight, High Speed, and Star Trek The Next Generation for Williams, and ACDC, Game of Thrones, Star Trek, Star Wars, and most recently Led Zeppelin for Stern. He's been with them almost 20 years, so the rumor of him making the move was greeted with a lot of skepticism. But like all rumors, sometimes they're true, and this is one of those times. We don't know the details yet, but as of now, Steve Ritchie is an employee of Jersey Jack Pinball. This could be a great thing for Jersey Jack, with many of their machines being criticized by some for their lack of flow. Jersey Jack is also known for their packed, more premium games, and this might satisfy a creative itch that hasn't been scratched by Stern. Questions remain about how soon a Steve Ritchie game could be released, given their current schedule, as well as longevity as Steve moves into his 70s. One thing I know is that I'll be fascinated to see what a Jersey Jack-Richie mashup could look like, and how it will impact the future of the pinball market. All hail the king. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg.
    6:41
    Hello and welcome to the Pinball Show's Stern News Update. I'm Craig Bobby. Were you a fan of Stern's Mandalorian machine, but that frustratingly static Grogu doll in the upper left corner of the playfield had you leaving wanting more, or even had you hitting paused actually purchasing one? Well, as Zach mentioned here first on the Pinball Show last week, this news continues blowing up on all the Mandalorian forums, so do yourself a favor and head on over to the Pinball Enthusiast group on Facebook where Star Wars and Pinball Enthusiast Joe Abate has finally finished his off-the-shelf toy mod of a moving and talking baby Grogu, which we all wanted to see with this release, but that Stern couldn't seem to give us. And amazingly, Joe's mod fits perfectly in Stern's cabinet space and looks like it was always supposed to be there. Stern Pinball's BOM, take note, this is the way! Now is Joe simply teasing us all about how good your Mando could look while he is having all the fun watching his moving, talking, and blinking baby Grogu while playing Mandalorian pinball alone in his Star Wars-themed man cave? No! Get this. Being the amazing pinball collector and generous pinball enthusiast that he is, Joe is doing the community a huge favor in putting together a detailed step-by-step plan on how you can do this yourself, which may also include at some point a connector and accessory kit that he may sell to make the whole project even easier. Wow! All I know is whoever's making those moving Grogu toys better get ready for an influx of orders because there's thousands of stern customers that may be coming their way soon. I'm telling you, it looks incredible and I think maybe one of the most creative and exciting mods we've seen in some time. Could this moving Baby Yoda take Mod of the Year at the 2021 Twippies? We shall have to wait and see. Well, that's all for this week for The Pinball Show. I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    8:46
    Hi, and welcome to this week's SHIT Update with Dr. John. So, Allentown has revealed some shaky phone footage of Ultraman by Spooky Pinball. Sadly, no actual gameplay streams as yet. And for those that don't understand licensing, that's probably what it's all about. Even though Spooky has obtained licenses, they probably haven't had the final tick-off from the companies involved in both Halloween and Ultraman to release edited footage. But one ball gameplay was allowed at Allentown, and from all reports from those that played, they enjoyed the game. A report from the Halloween players, which wasn't at Allentown, but has been available to a select few, says code is still quite early as far as video assets and call-outs, But the flow of the game, especially on the left side, looks promising, and the upper playfields look like a lot of fun. Haggis has just come out of lockdown, so build is slow as far as deliveries and materials go, which is happening to all the companies worldwide as well. But hopefully, Phantom Builds will get underway in the very near future. That's it for this week. Catch you all next week. Sorry to break in, fellas, but extra, extra, read all about it. This news just in, hot off the presses. After much speculation on various forums, podcasts, and other water cooler discussions over the past few weeks, it has now been confirmed that the king of flow himself, yes, Steve Ritchie, has officially left Stern for Jersey Jack Pinball effective immediately. If that news wasn't enough, I'm going to take that Stern designer departure news and raise it with even more breaking news of yet another departure over at Stern, this time in the coding department. Yes, say it isn't so, but none other than fan favorite Lyman Sheets himself has reportedly left Stern for greener pastures. That's right, recently confirmed from multiple reliable sources, Lyman, who had most recently finished his brilliantly coding work on Stern's Elvira's House of Horrors, has found himself looking for inspiration and a paycheck elsewhere. Now where did Lyman go, or where will Lyman end up? Well, for that news, we shall have to wait and see. That's all for now, Zach and Dennis Quite the news week indeed over at Stern For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby Catch you on the flip side Whew, well, it's always great hearing from the correspondents But it was extra great this week No joke, I was not expecting that We got Ken Rudberg blasting us with the news That Steve Ritchie has left Stern Pinball and is joining J.J.P.? What the hell is going on? And then Craig Bobby claiming that he has information confirming Lyman Sheets is, in fact, gone from Stern Pinball as well. And we know he sells games. He's like the pinball code god, I thought. Yeah, this is a double whammy. This is a double whopper. And I don't mean the IFPA or the Burger King. No joke. I don't even know where to start. Let's start with the Steve one because I think that one's gotten more play because there was talk on the Reddit. There was finally – I saw a thread on Pinside. There was a discussion on at least one of the pinball groups. I had actually someone email the Reddit link over to the Eclectic Gamers email address. And my initial reaction was it seemed unlikely just because I know Steve and Pat don't have a reputation for getting along. I thought, well, now if Pat left, I could see it because Steve just wants to keep designing games. So I don't – again, he's – I mean, he's moved before. He was Atari. Then he was Williams, which became Bally Williams. He was an independent contractor for Stern for a while. He was employed by Stern. So I'm not totally shocked. I just thought given his age and given his historic – His tenure. He's been there for nearly 20 years. Just being under Pat was the thing that for me was like, no. So I thought, well, I could see it if Pat was leaving. But it sounds like Pat's going to be there and Steve will be there. Do you think it works? I mean, they're professionals. I'm sure they can do it. I'm wondering if Steve was just feeling like he's tired of being shackled by the bill of materials. You know, there's been a lot of speculation. I know a lot of people have felt that it seems like, whether it's true or not, that Steve's gotten the short end of the stick at Stern, in that it's like he's always on the really expensive licenses, and does that mean he gets to get less mechanics in his games? Does that count towards his BOM? Yeah, that's off it because he's gotten things like the Star Wars.
    13:42
    Oh, yeah, the Star Wars. The Led Zeppelin's a big license. Yeah, yeah, a historic band that wasn't typically very cooperative with giving their rights out. I was trying to think what other recent games has he had. He did the Star Trek. He did a Game of Thrones with HBO. Yeah, the Game of Thrones one was – and also his output cycle. And I didn't know if this had to do with just what his relationship was with Stern. But he doesn't typically get a game out every 12 months. He seemed to be more on an 18-month cycle. Yeah, that's a really good point. But I guess let me throw this out there initially. So, I mean, when are we going to see his JJP game, 2025?
    14:21
    Yeah, and that sounds like a good punchline, but it might be correct. I mean, they've never put out a game within 12 months of another game, ever. Even though they claim that they're going to have two a year every year. Well, and American Pinball claims they're going to have three a year. That's right. I mean, we can claim all sorts of stuff. I didn't think JJP needed a new designer. I really didn't. Why would they? I don't see why they need a third designer. I mean, I'd phrase it that way. But it seems like between Eric and Pat, they're both saying that there's no trouble keeping up with that workload on the design side. I understand they're busy doing other things as well. But on the design side, I'm just I'm confused. Now, maybe JJP thinks that it would help their sales to have Steve Ritchie. But again, look at GNR. It did fine. It did more than fine. They can't keep up. So I don't get it. My guess, listeners, is that JJP's next game is ready. It's done.
    15:22
    Yeah, I would think so. It's just sitting. I would guess, this is going out on a limb, I would guess that the next game, purely guess, next game is a Pat Lawler game. It is done. It is ready. But you've got GNRs that they're building likely to the new year, if not Q2 2022. I don't think you reveal anything until you can really fully produce the next game. And I would also bet that the next game after that, I guess now throws a wrench in it. I don't think Steve Rich would be ready, but I bet it's Eric Menier again. I bet he's probably prototyping, if not, you know, third Whitewood by now. Yeah, I mean, remember there was a – I think it was a – I don't remember which podcast it was on. There was an interview with Keith Elwin. It sounded like he was basically three games in on design.
    16:12
    I wouldn't be shocked if that's the case for many of them. Maybe not. Maybe they all work differently. I don't know. Anyway, I mean, my initial summary is I could see why Steve would want to do the move. I'm just more confused why JJP would want him.
    16:26
    I could see a variety of advantages. Except the one thing is, it's like, if Steve wants to see his game come out, I mean, JJP puts out games. It's just their release schedule is so much slower than Stern. I don't know if he's going to see an increased output. I don't see how it's mathematically possible with there being two other designers. Well, yeah. Waiting on deck forever. Well, sure. And I totally sympathize with Ben and Steve and anyone else who wants to create, and then their creations don't get to come out. It's got to be frustrating. It has to be. Now, we still don't know, did Stern let Steve go? Did Steve choose to? We don't know that. That we don't know. Yeah, I mean, we would be really getting into speculation. Of course, we're a podcast. We could speculate if we want. I mean, the word on the street I hear, is that Steve's games haven't sold so well compared to the other designers lately at Stern. So if there was one to get rid of, it would be him. And timing-wise, it's likely that Steve hasn't jumped full into that next game at Stern either.
    17:35
    Right. Yeah, I think that's quite conceivable. I mean, it wasn't that long ago that Led Zeppelin came out. Of course, who knows how far along into his next design he was. I'm assuming that design probably stays with Stern if they want to use it or not. is up to them but now you are a steve richie fan you like you like his games and his is ethos or pathos is his you know his flow-based philosophy there you go yeah i'd say you know overall considering the full pantheon of bodies of work that all the designers have had he is my favorite but that being said his latest few games haven't interested me enough to buy them okay what do you think he does at jjp well i think i don't think he changes his design philosophy i and this is where this is a spot where i could see where the logic of jjp could be is we need a flow-based designer a high flow-based designer or we want to try that and see if that is something that either broadens our stable of games and attracts a more diverse audience of purchasing or they're just wondering if that will maybe move them to the next level i they i think jjp is is aware that not everything's going to be a gnr sure sure but i don't know because again currently with the way the pinball market is where we buy games without even uh seeing them shot uh maybe it doesn't matter anymore i don't i don't know well we know that of all jjp games number none of them are described as fast and flowy you've got pat lawler who is known historically for a decent flow but more stop and go.
    19:16
    Yeah, most of his games are stop and go games. And again, that's another philosophy. It's not like it's a... I like to say that because while I do prefer flow stop and go is not quote unquote bad It just a different style Very true Very true And then you got Eric Menier who I describe him as like the carnival ringleader the circus ringleader because he always putting so much in his games And I think sometimes his games end up being multi-ball heavy, but that's more of a coding Keith Johnson thing. That's the rules. I think that's Keith. Yeah. And he's got good geometry in his games. He's a young guy that knows what people like shooting. And then you've got Joe Balser that did the first two games, and he's certainly not described as a speed and flow guy. So we're bringing a whole new concept of play into this company. I still don't think you're going to get the fast flow that you're going to get with the stern materials. That's just me personally. Whether it's the flippers, whether it's the rail material, I don't see it happening. and especially with that 27 inch screen it's a stop and go because you're trying to direct the player up to there you've got keith johnson doing co i don't see it i think you're going to get i talked about on free play pinball podcast recently i think you you're going to get something that feels at that time i didn't know he was going over there but it feels like a star trek next gen it's fast it's flowy but it's got some mechanisms and a lot more mechs and you get more stop yeah And that's where I think, again, why I could see why Steve would want to do it is that he could do more mech development where I think he's lucky to get one mech that he can really work. Like Black Knight Sword of Rage. You could tell the effort really went into the Black Knight toy. Like that's where everything was because there ain't nothing else on that play field. Yeah.
    21:06
    That's a big one. Pretty big. While I'm on it, I will bring this up as well. I haven't heard this yet from out there, so maybe I'm missing it. But did you know Jersey Jack reached out to some dealers? I think the distribution network. They told us dealers they will be offering to sell playfields for GNR at the end of the run. They also gave pricing for playfields. Main playfield being $499, and a mini playfield being $119, plus shipping, of course, on them. The date of shipping, after the run, they're saying a realistic time frame, summer 2022. What do you make of that?
    21:50
    All right, so why would someone want to buy a playfield? Stern will sell playfields. play fields, any manufacturer. If I'm being objective, any manufacturer sells them as they would sell any other part. If you want to buy an extra ramp, you can buy an extra ramp. If you want to buy decals, you can buy decals.
    22:09
    But the price doesn't suggest it being just a regular. I mean, $4.99 is, I would say, a reduced special price. Okay. I don't know what they normally go for. It'd probably be $1,000. I've only ever, I've bought old used play fields for wall art, but not. Yes, typically $1,000 for a new play field. Oh, wow. Yeah, $800 to $1,000. Okay, well, then I'm guessing this is their quote-unquote solution to their play field issues. It will go over like a lead balloon. And they do indicate in this message that that price is going to be offered, but they will need to provide a serial number for their game. Okay, so it's definitely designed for replacement purposes. is not just any, but I can't just go and get the $500 price to hang one on my wall. This is their solution to their problem, their error. Do you see what I'm saying? I definitely see what you're saying. They're saying you have to buy the repair. Or buy an extra play field just for shits and giggles, to be fair. Yeah, but... If you go to GNR, you can buy an extra play field. Sure. Some people like hanging, I mean, I put them on my wall. Yeah, no, that's fine, but the reduced price and it only being available to people who bought GNR, to me says this is for they're offering it for repair. You don't need to. Completely agree.
    23:28
    People wanting to pay $500 for something they normally pay $1,000 for that they want just because will be happy. People that are being told they need to pay $500 to fix something they think should never have broken in the first place will not be happy. That's the answer. That's my answer. I'd still like to see JJP do something for those that have been significantly affected. They just did. They gave you a discount. Aren't you happy?
    23:53
    Okay, we're starting. Don't you have phones? That's a Blizzard reference. I was going to say, yeah, that does nothing for me. I didn't get that. Blizzard's a mess right now. I know. That's why the comparison wasn't bad. Man, be careful going to one of their holiday parties.
    24:09
    Blizzard's got a lot more other issues. That phone reference was actually to one of their quality issues. Oh, I see. So, yeah, that's news as well. But I'd still like to see them help out a little bit more. If not, we're here to help at Flippin' Down Pinball. Boom. Stern Pinball losing Lyman Sheets.
    24:29
    Same thing here. Now, that's a lot bigger than losing Steve. Isn't that odd to even say, though? Why? In a way, I suppose. But we kind of think about designers more so than we do the people behind the code. Exactly. But that being said, again, as I noted, a lot of Steve's games recently have not, at least from a layout perspective, have not been setting the pinball world on fire. Lyman always sets the world on fire. Yeah, every four years. Granted, we have to wait like three years between games. And when they come out, you have to wait two years for them to be done. Sure, but everyone likes what the finished product looks like. Look at Batman. Look at Elvira. Look at Walking Dead. Happy, happy, happy. Very much so. I looked around my collection this morning. I don't own a Lyman game. No, well, you're not really a player. Oh, yeah. You're one of those. What did you describe them as on your cello? You're one of those collectors who polishes with the diaper. We're people, too. Except you don't polish your 24-karat gold foil stuff. You'll put a hole through it. So, yeah, Lyman Sheets is reportedly gone. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Question? I'm still not convinced until I hear it from... I got to hear it from Lyman. Or I've got to hear it from the company that he joins.
    25:48
    Yeah, I'm sure Lyman will just call you up here any day now. Yeah, he's kind of reclusive. He doesn't do much with media. Well, you know, he historically for Stern was, I think he had some lead responsibilities on some of their platform transitions. So I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to go somewhere that was looking to do some more fundamental systemic stuff versus just coding a game. I could see that. He might find it more enjoyable to do that sort of work than – I don't know. I don't know him personally and what his personality is like when it comes to what he favors for programming. I think we still – I think we see him work with the company here soon. Yeah, I still am not convinced that this means he is not going to work with Stern in the future. They could always contract with him. Yeah, I could see them contracting him as well. So I could see – I mean, one could say – What's to say he wasn't a contract worker the way it is? They wouldn't contract with a Steve, but they would with a Lyman. But even then, they contracted with Dennis. They didn't bring Dennis Nordman on board and hire him for the Elvira. That was a contract gig.
    26:53
    Yeah, this stuff can be flexible. And part of the reason why I think it's also less, I won't say interesting, but less controversial even to me at least that Steve would go from Stern to JJP is we know for sure he's still staying in pinball. I don't know for sure what's going on with Lyman. Yeah, this is very true. But the thing is, when you look at the powerhouse stuff of Stern Pinball, I think from us as outsiders or me as an outsider looking in, it's like, what are the secret weapons of Stern besides their biggest not-so-secret weapon, which is their massive production capabilities and the fact that they just out-manufacture by leagues beyond anyone else in the game? Keith Elwin is a secret weapon. Right. Keith Elwin. Keith Elwin's designs. Well, Zombie Eddie is a contractor. so anyone could take him anytime they want. But I think we've got enough history showing that he's at Stern. I think Stern keeps him busy. I think he's probably got multiple contracts signed, and so it's just like he can't take on another project. But he's a surefire, yeah. Sure, sure. And then Lyman. Stern had the best guy in the game broadly considered, Lyman Sheets, on rules, and the best designer in the game broadly seen, which is Keith Elwin. So losing Lyman's a big deal because that was – I mean, remember the whole logic that people like me had with why he was only on those boutiques and premium-style runs anymore after Walking Dead was, well, Lyman's name sells games. That's right. So put him on the expensive stuff and force people to buy non-pros because it's the only way to experience Lyman. Or put him on the weak licenses. That's what I was thinking they were going to do with him. Really expensive licenses or real weak licenses? I guess we'll see if they end up doing that with Keith because that would be the – Yeah, he's the next one, and we'll talk about that here in a minute. Somebody suggested the same. Did you know this week there was another Mandalorian pro run? I heard something about that. Yeah, they bumped it up. It was supposed to be in August. They bumped it up because they hit some delays with Avengers, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and I think Iron Maiden. Oh, they couldn't get the figurines. Yeah, got them backed up a couple weeks, I believe.
    29:03
    The hoppy-woppy ran out of the oven mitts to stick on the Avengers game for the gauntlet. i'm only half sorry i don't know where you're going that oven mitt looking thing just annoys me i don't normally care about toys but that thing just stupid hamburger helper they would at least roll out the pros damn no your oven mitt hypothesis i just think hamburger helper and i just grumpy you want him to like uh wave his little fingers hello Yes!
    29:37
    I would replace it with a Hamburger Helper figure. Whatever happened to that figure? That was a great mascot. Maybe they still have it. Is it still in the box? I don't watch a lot of regular TV, so I just don't see ads as much as I used to. Aw, email us and then send us some Hamburger Helper. I like beef pasta. Can one of our t-shirts be Hamburger Helper, but in the Avengers gauntlet colors? T-shirts are done. They're finished. Finalized. I'm sure the artist is ready to be done with them. We're actually going to have, once we announce the merchandise collection, we're going to have that artist on. They confirmed with me that they'd be happy and honored to come on, hang out, and talk about the process of working with yours truly on a collection project. Is the collection being referred to as Derelict?
    30:24
    Derelict, my balls. It's going to be good. It's good stuff. Are you going to wear it? Would you wear the Pinball Show shirt? I haven't seen that. I know, but would you wear a shirt of your own? Yeah, probably. I mean, I have Eclectic Gamers, so I have a couple of Eclectic Gamers shirts, and I wear them. Did you wear the Twip shirt? I forget. Yeah, I still wear it. Okay. All right. That one I feel a little weird about because it is my silhouette. But I think most, like, average person who sees me doesn't know what the reference is. It's a pretty clever design. Full credit to Jeff for coming up with that. That was a good one. We do have new production updates for accessories. They changed since I've talked to you last week, unfortunately.
    31:07
    That's my second gasp. Reporting that they still are hitting parts delays, making the accessories especially difficult to put together. We've still got an August schedule for the Mandalorian mods. We have Led Zeppelin, Topper in August as of right now. Armor, August as of right now. I don't know about the expression lines. Avengers, that's what took a backslide Avengers topper. Now October, still saying August for the shooter rod, so fear not there. Stranger Things, everybody's asking where the topper's at. Now it says September for the topper and for the UV light kits, September, October. Same with Jurassic Park topper. Bumped that back to October. Same with the shooter rod, but flipping out, has them in stock right now. And anything else worthwhile? Eh, that's about it. Oh, Deadpool. Bumped to October for the topper for that. They re-ran it. These parts things are just mucking up everything. They're killing me. Lyman Sheets is gone. What the hell? Lyman, no. What's going on? Don't leave me. This is a killer. This is really a killer. Stern must feel really good with where they're at with their team. I wonder if Home Pin got him. Oh, God. Him and Balls are together. I can't even joke about that.
    32:23
    What a waste that would be. What about Spooky Pinball? Did you see that they were flipping around on Ultraman and Halloween this weekend at two different conventions? I did I okay I heard about it and then I saw some people shot some cell phone footage of Ultraman I tried to watch the footage and I all right let me ask this let me ask this question and I'll ask it out to Spooky Dumb you know this grinds my ears more than anything after being on that episode with you I'm sure they're listening here's here's what I don't understand all right I I heard the episode the interview that you did that everyone loved Zach you're the greatest interviewer ever here the 16 holy of of podcast that's what that's what i've been told wow wasn't nearly close to being in the same vicinity as complete because i couldn't share it with you i couldn't hear your voice or laugh about it with you did you guys hear that that's i know polls that's what i've been told that's what i've been told that you asked the real the hard-hitting questions you're not going to hear that on any other podcast you're the best you're Number one. Holy shit. You complete me.
    33:35
    Just shut up. You had me at hello. And the numbers back it up. That's right. Anything else was rigged. So here's the thing. On cloud nine. So they talked about the issues with the game and wanting the code to be ready before they do the reveal.
    33:59
    Oh, my God. I could not get through that cell phone. Just seeing that made me so not want to play Ultraman. Oh, it turns you off? Yeah. And that's why I clicked on two videos, and I stopped. I'm like, this is going to make me hate this game. I cannot. And that's wrong. I'm supposed to be all neutral and stuff. Halloween is one of your favorite horror films. well and thankfully since they're different art package i won't i halloween has not been tainted by the okay the shaky cam ultra man footage but i'm just like no that do you want is this really how we want gameplay to be revealed is by a shaky cell phone cam yeah i mean evidently there was a halloween video did you not see that one no no i quit looking for video after the ultra man once i was just like nope nope well it was from non-pinball people too so made it even worse pinball people They recorded it in a Dutch angle, and they only filmed the back box. They only filmed the topper. They're like, oh, you plebes. What are you doing? To be fair, these two individuals who did film Halloween, they were really deep into the horror genre and the filming genre. So I think they did. They've done TV shows and stuff like that. They had Halloween on order. They turned the whole footage. The footage doesn't show anything about the pinball machine, but they made a movie out of it. Halloween 8. They had some cool observations based on what they know about the license. So it was cool to hear, but boy, that film work, less to be desired. And they kept on draining the ball because they didn't see the little in-lane up-kickers or the in-lane elevators. So they just kept on losing it, and they were like, I just kept looking at the LCD screen to see what was on there. Oh, it was brutal. It was so bad. Well, it's always good to know what the average person who comes up to a game will react. People are saying, Dennis, that it's licensing. It's a licensing issue. What do you mean? That's why, I mean, we heard Dr. John talk about it. He said, look, guys, licensing sometimes doesn't allow for them to have a nice, beautiful stream or a video or anything like that. I'm calling bullshit. It doesn't make any sense. So they can have the video promo. You can take it to the public for the public to film it, but you can't have anything that makes it look good?
    36:21
    Hmm. I wonder maybe what's meant is like that they don't have the processes or smooth, you know, streamlined, say, for example, having Twitch so that Twitch doesn't auto DMCA strike it versus actually not having the right to stream it. I'm just talking about a gameplay video. It's a gameplay video. I'm confused. Sizzle reel. Especially because they shot plenty of footage in an edited fashion. So, no, I don't get it, but I'm not a licensing expert. I suppose, yeah. Spooky Lukey, Mr. Squirrel, reach out to a guy. Let me know what the deal was there. I mean, I more understand them not doing a gameplay reveal video because they sold out before that. I mean, they didn't need it. So, in a way, from their perspective, who cares? Then why take it to a show? all of you. If that contradicts, then why decide to take it to a show?
    37:17
    There's no real... To me, there's no point. Other than they want to make sure the spooky name gets out there so people think about them for the next release. At some point, especially given how big these numbers were, spooky might conceivably want to do a release without a limit. Because technically, they've only done that really with TNA, which wasn't a spooky developed title. so yeah but here's the thing if they came out with ultraman without a limit it wouldn't have sold 500 i know that's the thing it was sold when you when you're ready to put on put on the adult pants that's gonna be the i mean isn't that the next step to not have to rely on the on the crutch of false scarcity i would say yeah five years ago sure but nowadays i'm not convinced And they may always be happy relying on it. If I were them, I probably wouldn't make the jump, quite frankly. I'd be like, no, let's start doing JJP and doing 5,000 unit LEs. If we can sell all 5,000, why not? Yeah, I would be content with where I'm at if I was in their situation as well. I don't get it. I guess I'll play it whenever it gets here. But I do know that there's something big coming to the silver screen. And it's the right time because it's Roger Sharp's birthday. Hey, do you know there's a biopic that's going into production about Roger Sharp saving pinball?
    38:44
    Yeah, because, of course, it's been shared everywhere. So, yes, I'm aware. It's a new story. Did you hear that Roger Sharp saved pinball? I've never heard this. Why don you recount it for me in excruciating detail I like the evil villain Mayor LaGuardia He my favorite It wasn Mayor LaGuardia at the time Oh I thought it was I don't know. He's the one who smashed all the machines. That was decades before, though. Oh, well. It works better if it's in the past. It all is on the Marvel timeline together. I wonder if Roger Sharp is LaGuardia's variant.
    39:19
    Wow. We're going real deep. Have you actually been watching? No, you haven't. have you. The variant is a reference to the Loki show. I know. Have you been watching Loki? Yeah. It's good, right? Yeah. It's done, though. I've watched them all. If you wouldn't have turned off my podcast last week when you got the market trends, you would have heard that that was trending in television. Loki season one. Yeah, I did turn off the market trends. Because I told you. Because I'm honest.
    39:45
    You need at least one person in this hobby who's honest with you and doesn't just be like, I'm going to say nice things to you so that you put me up to the top of the list for games. I'm sure you Dennis, there is a truckload of those people. Yeah, I'm probably the only truth seeker. I'm just speaking truth. God, I hear them all the time. I'm a truth seeker. Joel Courtney, ever heard of that guy from Kissing Booth and Super 8?
    40:06
    No. How about Crystal Reed from Swamp Thing and Teen Wolf? No. Well, they've signed on to star in Pinball, the man who saved the game. I've heard of that. What a weird title. I don't like the title.
    40:18
    Pinball is not the man who saved the game. It was Roger Sharp. Yeah, but... Pinball. The man who saved the game. The subject matter is. It makes no sense.
    40:29
    Am I getting hung up here? Pinball. Yes. The man who saved the game. You're describing with the colon, you're describing the initial title, Pinball.
    40:39
    The game that needed saved. How about that? The man, I would say Sharp. Well, it's a biopic. It's going to be focused on him, not on Pinball. In fact, I imagine most of the movie will be about him and his life, not about pinball and the hobby and tilt the battle to save pinball or whatever. I just don't – this is my guess. I just don't think that that's going to be the – it's going to be a biopic, so it's going to be about Roger's life. The big court thing is probably going to be 15 to 25 minutes of it. That's going to be the big climax. Yeah. That's going to be your hook there. There will be dramatic music. The ball will be rolling in slow motion. as it hits the proper lane. Or they might change the game out. They might do creature instead or something. A bead of sweat rolls down the forehead, and in the reflection you see the play field at the last shot. Probably with Invisiglass, you know, like they had back then. That's right. I just want to see the stash. And there's a part where he looks nervous because he got blinded by the light reflecting off of his 24-karat gold Raiders topper into his face. Oh, perfect. But thankfully it lands just perfect, and he clears the full drop bank. He'll sweep the whole drop bank. Got to be an angry prosecutor, and there's got to be a gavel. Order! Order! With a wig. So he'll have the powdered judge wig on. And the crowd goes wild, and the angry prosecutor tries to get out of the courtroom in a fit. And then the kind of skeptical councilman will go up to him afterwards and go, wow, you're really no pinball. And Roger will look over at him and take off both pairs of sunglasses he's wearing and go, I am pinball. Wow. And walk out. I like that. Into the sunset with a helicopter flying. I was thinking it would be a. And an American flag. It would be a fade out and then a fade back into a local bar or tavern of him and the missus sitting there having a drink, seeing pinball in the back and reminiscing about how they saved an industry. I was imagining swooping low in with a telephoto style. Oh, yeah. That'd be good, too. Maybe doing a 360 of him in the playing position. Oh. Ever since I was a young boy.
    43:01
    I'm sure that song will be in there. Is it going to be in there? Yes, it will. Oh, I hope not. I so hope not. Roger Sharp, speaking of, he appeared on the Final Round Pinball podcast a couple days ago, and he talked about licensing. I really like the discussion about licensing Now T. Ellis and Robin still didn't ask the question I wanted to hear Roger Sharp being asked He's been asked everything But they did talk at length about a lot of things For example, I love the confidence of Roger Sharp He's been in it long enough He knows the game He knows how to get what he wants He talked about him only accepting no In a licensing negotiation for pinball He said, I only accept no for an answer under two situations. One, if the financials are, quote, incomprehensible, end quote, and it just don't make sense. He talked about some of these licenses, six, seven, even eight-figure deals they want or they expect. They don't know how small pinball is. And he said, other than that, the other is just that the notion and belief that the marketplace is different than what it is. they're just licensors could be misinformed about thinking pinball is gambling and they don't want to be associated with something as such well that's the only two ways he'll accept no for an answer i don't believe him well what else do you think there is uh well and there's where i'm different than you i'm i've met people and again i i get where i get where he's coming from however i've dealt with salesmen that are the oh i don't take no for an answer i'm like oh well you're going to learn what no is today you're going to learn today i will break you all right all right you're gonna learn today you'll learn what a long dick look like today just because you say that first i might toy with you to waste your time first but the moment i know that you're one of those that won't take no you're going to get a no if for no other reason than the principle of it at that point yeah there's no such thing as not taking no for an answer there is no salesman so good that they can sell to everyone this is not it's just not true and the reason i know that's the case is because if i know there's someone with that record i'll break it for them i know that's how you are i've run into and i'm not the only one that way i know i've ran into people like you i'll do there are people i mean i i don't know if you've ever i get these emails all the time for like hey we haven't heard back from you it's like at some point you're harassing me leave me alone take no for the an answer because now you're just annoying and i won't you see it and i know rogers too professional to actually just beat down the door so much sure that people just give up he's sly he knows i mean just imagine trying to sell a pinball machine zach and someone's you've like called someone out of the blue and said hey buy this pinball machine they go no and what are you going to do you're going to somehow force it on them you know you can't i'm so i'm assuming it's a when you're having the serious you know like there's serious interest here i'm tying it all back to harry potter okay that's what it sounds like so well he already put in the out for the harry potter sure he did the second one you point you point out the notion but the thing is jk rawlings if what is said about her is true true she does not have a misunderstanding about the marketplace she knows factually that pinball machines go into bars and that's her problem with it so it's a no-go that was a problem with the beatles too i don't know what happened next I figured the Beatles' problem was the financials being incomprehensible.
    46:31
    Well, that too, but something – man, I don't know if I'm supposed to say this. There was something about – Weak the truth. Something about paying for it felt to that company like – so they were going to put a blank – they were going to put a blank coin door. Oh, like the coin door thing. But they just never did. Oh, I don't remember where I heard that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. That might have been like the concern, like is this like gambling or did they just have a problem with the pay to play? Yeah, I don't know. I've worked with individuals in negotiations where they simply were just unreasonable. That's how you're describing it. So that's how I comprehend this, unreasonable, because at the end of the day, like anytime I go into a negotiation and somebody doesn't have a price for something, it does anger me. So I'm like, oh, bullshit. let's stop lying to each other can we not just be honest we're both adults right there's got to be a price got to be a price no no price oh fuck off and and so and i did hear this interview so you know with roger i think it's much more of a we're at the point of the him not accepting nowhere there's already a serious negotiation agreement that like few people want to reach an agreement so that's where he takes this philosophy of not taking no and letting the deal fall apart there are people that just will not deal and he cannot he cannot force their hand more than joe cam and cow can or anyone else you'll hear stories about the sales people that could sell sunshine to a man in the desert but right but you know some of us who aren't stupid realize that we have plenty of sun and we won't buy he also talked about there's not one property that he can't at least tap into and get a discussion going i i can believe that yeah He was talking about the complications of licensing nowadays compared to the past. So complicated. He says LCD footage. That's the big thing. The LCD is the worst thing that ever happened to pinball for the licensing standpoint. It wasn't needed in the past. Now there's likeness rights. We want it, princess. Bobo the Bobo. Audio, video you got to get now. It's just hard. And I found it surprising that he said the average run of a Bally Williams game was like 10,000 to 15,000. So it was easier to kind of sell to these licensors because there was a lot of exposure getting out there. Nowadays, it's not close to 10 to 15,000. He must have meant one of the older periods then. I guess so. Because we know that they didn't put out 10 to 15,000 in the mid to late 90s. I know. I don't know. He's got to be thinking in the 80s. Possibly. Well, like, all right. Unless he's talking about Terminator, early 90s. That still seems high. well the early 90s there was a resurgence but I don't think did they have 10,000 Twilight Zones? I don't think so and I could have heard him wrong this might be my mistake I don't remember that part unless he meant like 10 to 15,000 a year no it had to be more than 10 to 15 a year because they were producing I don't know how many titles a year you know what I say I always say let's just do IPDB because they have the production counts we're going we're going to put him to we're going to put him to the test maybe he's correct in ipdb maybe but all right so let's see we're doing doing all the williams okay let's see what's the first one that hits i'm starting at 99 and going backwards in time so what's the first one that exceeds hits 10 000 or goes higher star trek's next gen in 93 was a little under 12 000 oh okay indiana jones was a little under 13 000 that's also 93 after 93 nothing is 10 000 does it have terminator on there uh yes that was 15 000 okay so that's 91 i'm betting that's what he was talking about well but again most of the most of the games aren't i mean here are the ones that are over 10 000 starting in i'm going to start with the 90s all right we've got funhouse in 90 was the only one over 10,000. It was 10,700. Then Terminator 2 in 91 was 15,000. Then 92 had Getaway was 13,000 and Adam's Family was, of course, 20,000. And Fishtails was 13,000. Wow. And Twilight Zone did break that. It was 15,000. Okay. Indiana Jones was 12,000 and Star Trek was 11,000. So 93 was a huge year. It started going down because more Fishtails than Indiana Jones, that seems preposterous. No, no. Indiana Jones. Yeah, about 1,000 more. That's crazy. And then after 93, nothing is 10,000 or more. Okay. It just falls off a cliff. Sega.
    51:12
    Welcome to video games. Well, this is Williams. And then now in the 80s, there were more. Like F-14 was over 10,000. But it was still a rarity. That was like 93 was that one period. And other than that, it was not all that common for them to – Flash was big and Firepower was big, but Blackout and Scorpion, they weren't. Black Knight was big, but Alien, Poker, Jungle Lord, and Pharoah weren't. And these are all peers of – that's my – so yeah, he's – it's not the majority of the games. He's looking at the silver lining. Other than 93, other than 93, I'd say the average run of a Bally Williams game in 93 was 10,000 to 15,000. Other than that, it looks like it's inaccurate.
    51:58
    It's still substantially more than today. Well, I don't know what the production sales are today. Some people tell me Stern must be doing 50,000 Mandalorians. No. Yeah, that's what I hear. I hear 50,000. It's not happening. Maybe 45,000. He also discussed he has to educate licensors so that just letting them know pinball is still very viable, still a good market to tap into. There's still some room there because a lot of people, a lot of these bigger companies don't really know anything about pinball, as you see from the general public a lot of times. Yeah, it makes sense. And speaking of the Sharps, and it's a Sharp episode, Josh Sharp visited a pinball podcast with Travis Mary to discuss competitive pinball. I only saw part of this. It was about competitive pinball, so I only saw part of it. I'm turning into you, or I just, unless they're doing competitive game number seven, I just can't care. Pretty soon, all your games are going to line up. They're all going to have powder coat. You're going to love them. They're going to have moments. You're going to become my little moment maker.
    52:56
    So what did Josh have to say? A couple of cool points. Go check out Final Round and go check out a pinball podcast with the Sharks. But he talked about a demographic, because we know that competitive pinball, and he did confirm, it's growing. Competitive pinball is growing. It's huge. It's growing rapidly. Take the pill. But it's going big. It's going fast. but he was surprised that there was an age demo that's kind of stagnant that's age 18 i believe 29 just isn't really the collegey slash starting their their work lives time they're too busy not seeing as much in competitive pinball we see every other age group kind of go up but that one nope that one kind of staying stagnant that sucks that's not good dennis maybe they'll start when they're 30 they were talking about that like um you know the the demographic that is growing now let that 30 to he's like man we gotta be careful because those were kind of different times than what the kids nowadays are presented with so it's really tough they discussed to get into that younger demographic and of course we know why there's numerous reasons as to why but it is Don't you all have phones? I don't know what to do with that. Now, if you check out Free Play Pinball Podcast, Amanda Hamilton and I devised a really, I think, ingenious way to get more pinball into that age demographic. I think it's really good. It's a national thing, too. Just saying.
    54:33
    Dennis loves my new fresh ideas. I've done international because I respect the entire world. Oh, here we go. Whatever. I'm not paying to ship kids overseas. It's too expensive. You always cheap out. It's all, hey, look, here's a banner. I don't want to ship it to Netherlands. Cheap out. Are you cheaping out? Are you cheap?
    54:54
    I'll pay to get that wrapped around your van. Travis Meary brought up Keith Elwin and some of the licenses he's been given. And Josh Sharp kind of agreed with him. He was like, yeah, what if Stern is doing that? They give Elwin the worst license because he's kind of a brand by himself. and I've always said that's probably the smart decision. Yeah, well they haven't started that yet. We'll have to see if they will. Well, Iron Maiden.
    55:19
    Yeah, but that was his first game. They didn't know he was going to be this huge success. That was a give the new guy this garbage. And then another Avengers after we've already had one. After it with the Jurassic World movies coming out. Come on, that's huge. And Avengers super huge. Come on. But I would argue that Avengers wasn't a killer license like a Turtles was or that like a stranger things was honestly avengers was a i i could see i see i'm not gonna say that you see my point though like it's i see your point it's though something like turtles taps into the age demographic really well of people who are often buying pinball machines but avengers if you're again there's there's the comic side where people who would have read avengers that does go back a ways and then there's also the popularity of the movies and then And I would say from an operator perspective – I mean if I was an op, I'd rather have Avengers than Turtles.
    56:14
    If I was operating like a pizza place or something. Yeah, I don't know about that. Well, because the younger audience is going to know it, I think, better than Turtles. Though Turtles is still done too. I mean it's not like it all just ended in 1989. Well, I think they were basing this off of a rumored Godzilla if that were to come to be. The point is Avengers is not a bad license. No, it's not a bad license. Godzilla? Okay. Well, but again, Godzilla has been having these big – I mean, Kong v. Godzilla or whatever the name of it was, was one of the hot, well-producing – or I should say well-selling movies at the start of 2021. So it's not a – giving him James Bond might be more controversial because I'm in a good bond in years. Yeah. I just think that whenever Avengers came out, it was the weakest license of the cornerstones that year. was it stranger things no stranger things uh see that's where they had to give mando to eddie to save him stranger things turtles and avengers i think avengers was the low one by i know avengers made way more money than stranger things did just in film yeah but it wasn't based on the film it doesn't matter deadpill wasn't based on the film doesn't matter people know the name they don't need ryan you can whine about ryan wendell's not being in it as much as you want doesn't matter Ultimately, it didn't matter.
    57:33
    I did want Ryan Reynolds in. Of course. Who didn't? But it didn't. Like, the game is good, and people enjoy it. So who cares, ultimately? That was news overload right there. We've got one hell of a second half 2021 coming. I guess, if there's anyone still working for Stern.
    57:52
    Ray Day, are you going to Home Pin? Let me know. Email me. Click the cameras podcast at gmail.com. Let me know. Give me the scoop. These are the Chinese zombies he's working on. Canadian werewolves.
    58:05
    Canadian werewolves. I need to know. I need to know what the rules will be. Do I have to hit the center cellophane made ramp 20 times or 30? Russian mummies. That's what Ray Day's working on. Tell me. Tell me about the top inlines I can only get to on the plunge.
    58:24
    Tell me about those inlines Ray Day Ray Day I need you come on tell me that good stuff right there we got such hot news this week it going to be hard to top it with your pinball market trends but we're going to try ladies and gentlemen trending up this week is a little old game that we've just been talking about the stranger things premium and le man dennis did i call that one right or what?
    58:53
    Whatever. That's right. Just licking Crow's toe over there. A little bit. I've never really seen any evidence that this game has become popular. Why are you smoking?
    59:06
    You by the Joshua tree there? You got some incense? No, chompa. I love that shit. Stranger Things LE recently sold for like 13 grand. How about them apples? As Matt Damon would say. as he slams up on the glass window of that little Ivy League prick.
    59:26
    I'm amazed you've seen a film that actually won awards. Mini Driver. Premiums are going for like $9,000. $9,000, $10,000 for a premium Stranger Things. I can't believe it. I really can't believe it. So much so that they said they were done making these UV kits. I think the UV kit is underpriced now. You heard it here. At what, $280? Seems like a deal when it comes to that impactful of a mod.
    59:54
    Some of these mods are expensive. Oh, I did just get my TDD Mandalorian mods. You see that with the boundary? Installed that last night. Nope. The stormtroopers on a spike, their helmets on a spike. Nope. The train supporter vehicle. Yep. Come on.
    60:11
    Also training up this week is the royal family of pinball, the Sharps. How can't I? I mean, come on. Roger Sharp's birthday. We got a new announcement of a Roger Sharp movie. Biopic. We've got Josh and Zach getting the IFPA going again. August 1st. Hi. I didn't hear Zach do anything. I thought Zach did. Why are you lumping Zach in? Zach's kind of part of the IFPA. Yeah. Right? Isn't he like vice president or something? He's got a number. He ain't got to be something. Yeah, but why is vice president doing anything? Oh, behind the scenes, those two are controlling it all. Josh is the power hungry one who wields it with his left hand while he manipulates behind the scenes with his right they always say he's number two there's gotta be a number one how else did Jeff Teolis not become IFPA president manipulation shadows the Sith way I think Zach Sharp is the Krang here Zach Sharp is the Krang and Shredder is the Josh Sharp that's how I see it you think Shredder's in charge and leading all the Watch out for Krang.
    61:13
    I think Zach's the tricksy one. I really do. I think Zach is bebop. No, Zach is not bebop. He's too clever. He's our bebop. Too sneaky.
    61:26
    Bebop, he's just like, yep, I'm going to get stuff done. He's the enforcer. And besides that, Sharps are training up because the Krang of pinball, Zach Sharp, is prepping to go into overdrive at Stern Pinball. Don't make this a thing. Three months. Next three months are going to be huge for Zach Sharp. Just wait. He's going to be like, Steve who?
    61:47
    Lyman Hall? Check this out. I'm calling it. He's going to be working overdrive on marketing in the next three months is all I'm saying. Oh, no. They're bleeding staff. Probably begging Timmy. Don't jump ship, Timmy. Yeah, but there might be a controlled bleeding. Bled? A controlled bleeding? Oh, letting. Bledding? Is that it? You're saying it's a bloodletting, huh? Yeah, bloodletting. Maybe it's a control. Like, you know, we got to let some of this go. You got to be careful of that. Turn into a spurter. We're getting a little puffy.
    62:20
    Getting a little puffy. Got to turn it. Toinicat that. Got to get my toinicats. Oh, my gosh. Turning down, though, is something from Stern, too. It's a Mandalorian LE. What? Oh, no. Shit. They already sold out. Who cares? Well, they are on the secondary market. They were going for 13 all day. Now you're starting to see a lot fill the marketplace. And when that happens, listener, we all know what happens. Prices come down a little bit. You're now seeing them sell for about $11.00, $11.05. It's because Baby Yoda doesn't do the magic hand wavy thing.
    62:53
    Based on last week's Pinball Market Trends, he does for some. I didn't listen to that. Coming soon. Yeah, somebody got the Grogu to work. Also trending down this week. You know what? It's just the market. the market in general is honestly trending down. Now wait, just a tiddly bit. Just a whisper. A little hair. A little nut hair.
    63:17
    It's barely trending down, but numbers don't lie, and I only report the facts here on the Pinball Show's Pinball Market Trend. And it is coming down a little bit, just like all collectibles right now. Just a little bit. Summertime, people are out. Isn't that good news, Dennis? It is for buyers. I know. Not for sellers. I'll try and whip up some sympathy for you sellers I'm so biased he only reports when he sells see how's this help me I'm here for you listener that's all I'm here for and you know what I've only got one deal of the week this week that's it only one and it comes for blipping out pinball I haven't seen anything on pin side that I would consider a deal nothing hmm reporting all these trending downs How does this help me? Deal of the Week brought to you by Flippin' Out Pinball. Tell me more, Zach. Tell me more. If people want to save money and not get screwed over, I've got an ACDC Lucy edition.
    64:16
    Coveted. Vault edition. Less coveted, but okay. More coveted. Sneeze Guard can actually be taken off. People want the original. No, they do not. People are about the original. They want those serial numbers to match. You're such a non-collector. you know i'm gonna start turning it back on you you've made fun of collectors too long you're just gonna come across like a bully i mean you're already trying to treat me like the charlie brown of pinball here and now you're just gonna look mean i'm i'm doing my segment keeping them honest and you're doing your honest let's kick dennis in the nuts that's what you're trying to do so try and turn it back on me do what you very much in the in the in the hobby i think this is everybody knows this, that the Vault Edition is the one you want to get. It's the Lucid. And it comes with a topper. And it comes with all kinds of mods. And it comes with this. It's loaded down. These things easily in this market probably sell for $9,000.
    65:10
    I think I've sold one. Sell for $10,000. A Lucy. Sell them for $10,000. Not at Flippin' Out Pinball. No, no, no, no. We want you to come back. We want you to have a smile on your face when you're playing your game. And we want you to have more green in your pocket. Buy, buy, buy! In your wallet. Buy, buy, buy! In your coin purse. Buy, buy, buy!
    65:29
    Ever seen a coin purse? I don't see how people carry around a little coin purse. It seems like it'd be such a pain in the ass if it doesn't have a strap on it. You ever notice that? With the little claps on them? Who wants to carry that around?
    65:43
    Not me. Well, I've seen people put them like in purses. Yeah, but I've seen people carry them around just on their purse. In a pocket? No, no pocket. A lot of times they partner nicely with a dress, with an evening gown. Why are we talking about this? I don't care about going places. Who carries coins anymore?
    66:03
    Same with wallets. A lot of people carry wallets. They put them in their back pocket. I can't do that. Because of your back. Because you didn't get it fused. No, you're definitely a back pocket wearer in your right back pocket. Left. Left?
    66:16
    Are you left-handed? Not exactly. okay now i need to know more no you don't need to know what does that mean not exactly no more move on all right so what's this great deal on this lucy 79.99 ambidextrous shit going on over there 8500 look at that wow i named a lower price thanks such a sweat i don't have one for sales $8,500 for a home use only, beautiful, fully loaded ACDC Lucy.
    66:49
    That's really nice. No deals of the WTF. Everybody's being on their best behavior. Nicely done, everybody. And that was your pinball market trends.
    67:01
    Beep, beep, beep. Beep, beep. Beep. Pinball market trends. Okay, there you go. People hate that so much.
    67:11
    No, they hate this. I just wonder if the show will collapse under its own weight of things as you just add more and more. Because you don't ever take anything out. You just add more and more. You're like a fake chef who just thinks if you throw more ingredients in, it'll be better. It's yummy. Into the soup. And you just threw in the cilantro and the parsley. And I'm just like, what are you doing? I honestly feel like my power is growing. I know that you think that because you're just like, ah, I know what I'm brewing. The brand is growing. Yes, you're brewing one thing, evil. TPN is growing exponentially. Flippin' Out is growing. Oh, you're taking over all of pinball. That's its plan. TPN's evil plan. Yes, our maniacal plan. I don't know how it takes it over, but it does. It's evil. It takes it, Precious. It takes it over. Yes, we rent it. Have you seen our numbers?
    68:07
    Actually, our numbers are really good. They so are. I love when other, like, there's only a couple of people that will even boast about their numbers, but I love it because every time, at this point, they're just wrong, and I love it. I'm like, eh, have you fact-checked that lately there, bud?
    68:30
    Let's close this Twipulous show down here. Where can people catch you? They can always email me at collectogamerspodcast at gmail.com. That's the easiest way to make sure it gets to me. can they email you and ask about what kind of weird ambidextrous thing you have going through? There's no one cares. No one's going to email about that. No one cares. Do you go full wallet? I go a clip. Like it folds in half. Oh, my God. But I put it in my front pocket. Front right pocket. I have a bi-fold wallet. That's what I use. Man, you're so fancy.
    69:06
    Sometimes I think it would be fun to hit you. I know you do. how would you hit me though would it be a slap a pinch a poke a punch no that's stupid episode where you slapped greg still irks me oh i got him good i got him good oh i was so wrong it was a good multiple levels maybe with a folding chair wow wow a robert like in the face a robert sweep the leg i was thinking about that uh yesterday i wasn't under the influence i promised late at night you know how much you despise me most of the time that same feeling I finally have because I feel the same way with Robert Byers from Top Rope oh my god I just want to strangle him most of the time so he's my Zach Minney and if you want to get a hold of Zach Minney I should start just talking in the third person yeah that's not creepy at all have you heard the Topper King the Topper King is reporting you should call Zach Minney over at flipping out pinball. He's got the best deals. Don't listen to the reports. Zach Minney at the top of King says bye bye bye. Don't listen to the reports that he tear gassed the other distributors to take their allotment of UV kits. The pinballnetwork at gmail.com is where you can reach out to me. You can also watch our video series straight down the middle with Greg Bone and I. I haven't had a video for a while so I don't know what's coming up there. When are you doing the rubber bands? I don't know. We do have a new... That's what everyone wants to know. We don't care about merch We want to win the episode of other collections Rubber bands specifically Greg's got me working on another project right now Greg's too busy trolling around In his Jurassic Park Jeep He's so adamant about this project We're working on I'm just not as excited about it That feels like me in every TPN project we do Exactly I sympathize with you on this one I'm just like drag me along. Even if I think something's a good idea, I'm just like, but it's a lot of work. And as I've pointed out, the ideas are easy. It's the work that makes it hard. So I'd rather just not do the work. I wonder which one I'm better at because I'm gold at both of them, baby.
    71:21
    You can reach out to the Topper King, full of gold. Reach out to me. You can purchase from him as well. It's so hard to keep the past tenses.
    71:29
    812-457-9711 or Zach, Z-A-C-H at flip. The letter N out. pinball.com or just go to flipping out pinball.com i'm going to tell you what's out in there right now that we have not been able to get our hands on and or anybody in quite a while it's the product showcase this week it's the jurassic park amber lit interactive shooter rod bye bye bye indeed everybody was wanting those and trying to sell them for like three four hundred bucks nope they're in stock they're fully in stock i made sure this round to order you went in the back and checked i was like look i'm going to order so many that i'm going to have these for a couple years.
    72:05
    They're already selling fast, so they're probably going to be gone. But, as of right now, go pick up one or five or ten. Go ahead. We also have Hot Wheels. I know it's low inventory everywhere and we virtually have nothing, but I was able to secure a couple Hot Wheels, so if you'd like one of those American Pinball games, bye bye bye. Avengers Pro is coming this month and I have two spots. Two spots for this month's run. Mandalorian, still doing pre-orders on that, as well as all the interested list. Star Wars the Pin comic edition. Have some spots available for August. And I've got a number of different art blades and shooter rods. I can't believe I still have a Stranger Things shooter rod. That is not going to lose money. Buy that and sit it on your shelf, people. Remember, last week I talked about the vault. Have yourself a pinball vault. It's smart. It's a smart thing to do. Escalator turnarounds eight to ten weeks. Banners, banners, banners. And so on and so forth. Last week at TPN, Dennis, we had Final Round pinball podcast. Episode 39 with special guest Roger Sharp, as we discussed. Go listen to that. Yep. Well, it's the Free Play Pinball Podcast. Episode 5 with special guest co-host The Topper King. Go listen to it. And we had a very nice piece by Glenn Wechter, skateboarder, off the record pinball podcast. Episode 14, Tournament Pinball PSA. Got a lot of views, too. Glenn didn't think it did. I was like, no. It's the nice thing about the team over here at TPN. you get good exposure so pick up the mic you guys if you want to get some good exposure not have to pay for any fees or anything and get some help along the way submit an off the record pinball podcast a lot of fun easy to do TPN this week I don't know Silverbrook Chronicles expected this week that's right he's covering something pretty interesting too for Dennis Creasel and the third person Topper King, Zach Minney. And always remember to reach out, Lime and Sheets. If you've been kidnapped by Home Pin, blink twice. I'll send help. We can save you. We have the technology.
    74:12
    And always practice safe pinball. And this is an impromptu, Dennis, if I'm such a damn good pinball podcast interviewer, who do you want me to get next to interview? Go. Oh, gosh. You can pick anybody. yeah well you know i've always wanted an interview with ray tanzer is somebody living yeah he works for stern oh he's still living he's still working sorry ray i'll reach out he like oversees the whole manufacturing division but he used to do game design with premiere that's actually an interview i wanted to do a lot but and i don't want to do very many interviews but i've never read one with him okay to be someone new oh do So what were you hoping for me to say? Zack Sharp? So you can complete the Sharp trifecta? Ray Tanzer feels like a Matt Morrison in-depth technical interview, but go Ray Tanzer, I guess. Well, I mean, the thing is with Ray, he did game design, he did mech design, and now he does more of the oversight style stuff, kind of like Gomez does with the design team. I think he's had an interesting career. But if you want someone, I guess you need someone easier. No, Ray Tanzer's fine. You could pick anybody and you went Ray Tanzer, okay?
    75:31
    Because I don't know of a single interview with him. Such a Dennis pick right there. I thought you were just going to be an ass and pick somebody who's dead. Just because I didn't know that they were dead. Like, yeah, let's just get them. Like, yeah, sure you will, Zach.
    75:48
    I thought you were trying to Charlie Brown me there. I mean, if you want another one who has done interviews but hasn't in a few years and he just had a birthday, happy birthday, Wayne Nyans. Try and reach out to Wayne. 102. 103 now, I thought. Is it 103?
    76:05
    That's pretty unbelievable. Isn't that the, I think the Pinball News, Pinball Magazine have him on every year or something. They, well, they. With their Gary Flowers joke that never hits. I don't get the Gary Flowers joke I have to admit I don't understand it maybe it's a European thing I don't know I don't remember someone I think on his 101st did an interview and then I thought for his 100th of course there was a lot of coverage I still have he did so many games and again not just playfield design, mech design as well very interesting boring ass well here's the thing you have such a bias against ems i think that would be a real struggle for you yeah because anybody can design an em there's nothing to them don't you say it oh an orbit it's easy bunch of stand-up targets watch out so simple i still to this day don't even eat flippers yeah i know if he's a sinner pop ooh watch out uh no the to this day on the twit podcast i had an insensitive joke about wayne nines and it still kills me i didn't air it and it was probably the funniest joke that i've ever done on a show it was so good i couldn't air it still sucks remember that joke no because i think it was probably really mean uh and i only do nice jokes.
    77:39
    Oh my God. I forgot. Yeah. Okay. And you were like, no. You can't do that. You just can't. What's that? You can't.
    77:51
    You just can't do it. You just can't. No, definitely not.