the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast we are back we're back perfect this is the uh this is our episode that we're releasing before christmas right that was the goal to get uh that's your guys fault not mine to knock one out christmas of 2025 yeah wasn't that though it was like hey we'll definitely get one in for the holidays and um we didn't we didn't make promises your ass can't catch which i'm which i'm pretty sure we made a promise before thanksgiving too and that we didn't keep that one either so uh to anybody that clicked on this thank you for sticking with us um thank you for the patreon supporters that are supporting us through months that we uh don't record so really thank you for that supporting joel but that's not top okay so that's true joel spends all the money not us i haven't spent like any of the money anyways so it's uh did you invest it no no it's just sitting there it's sitting there and we we have this conversation all the time what should we do guys should we do this should we do it last time we pulled out money for expo we're like let's let's put this towards expo travel that was the thought but anyways enough about that uh we have a guest today did you see any money travis did you my work paid for it i don't know where joel puts all this He's probably investing in LEs to flip them. I bet that's what he does. It's just – anyways. Well, thank you. Thank you for the people that support us. Hi, Ralph. Welcome to this mini shit show. Thanks for having me. I just love that behind the scenes you guys bust on Joel just as much as on the show. So it's like – Oh, it's – yeah. The jokes write themselves, Ralph. The jokes write themselves. We have Retro Ralph here. So I'm assuming it's Retro Ralph on all the socials Is that right? That's pretty much it So feel free to check out his YouTube But the reason we invited Ralph on here Is because he was also at the Dungeons and Dragons Media Day So the goal for this episode Is we want to talk about Dungeons and Dragons But before we dive into that We have to hit the button We have to play the song So Tom can do his dance Are we, everybody good? Travis, you good? Let's roll Tom, great? Yeah Perfect. Here we go. We, we, we're three guys who like to talk and ball. So we came up with the cloud's our name. We're Joe and Travis Down, we talk and ball. And we call on ourselves. Triple drink, triple drink, triple drink. We're triple, triple drink. We did it. Okay, we've done it. Real quick, it's snowing outside right now. Travis, is it snowing in St. Louis? Yes, I'm officially calling this the first holiday episode of 2025 for Christmas. Wow. And just to be clear, it snowed a lot of inches Sunday night. Do you own a snow shovel yet? No. No. Okay. OK, so Ralph, you live out in Arizona, right? Yeah, it's actually seasonably a bit cold here right now. It's 57 degrees, but it's 57 and sunny. So I'm feeling I'm feeling pretty good right now. So you don't need a snow shovel or you're there is no snow shovel required, although you go an hour and a half and you can have plenty of snow in like Flagstaff or Sedona if you want to do that. So you have that option. Yeah, see, I'm just I'm just using Ralph Strats, Joel. that's not how's it working for you because you almost didn't come to the media day because you're like i'm snowed in we're like oh my god you would have thought it was an apocalypse i know yeah i got there didn't i i was so just to clarify did you just move to a snowy place or something or like why years ago no i've lived here for about three years now three years ago you don't have a shovel no no come on you have one you're just this is just a bit right no there is no bits what do you do just throw it into reverse and just just pile it just right right no no no no his driveway got shoveled his driveway got shoveled who who shoveled your driveway travis monica did monica did and where'd she get a shovel you outsource it she got it from the neighbor see that's the he his wife now what would be really cool if you told me you had one of those like remember when like didn't elon musk make like a flamethrower that's what i want if you did that that'd be awesome i'd that'd be badass no i'm glad you mentioned that ralph because i literally did tell my wife we need that that exact thing and she just looked at me and just turned around and walked out the door so how cool would that be i think pretty cool yeah i we i wouldn't have an issue with snow on my driveway that's for sure i appreciate ralph that you think we have bits because this is all real what you see is what you get ralph is like holy crap it's all been real this whole time this is like a whole new world for me right now okay so um media day basically we got an email uh looks like stern actually sent an email to a whole lot of media creators in the pinball creator space. And it was middle of December. So they just said, hey, just heads up. We're going to be unveiling our game coming soon. They didn't say what the game was. This was before the trailer. And they just told us, what was it, January 7th. We're like, that's a Tuesday. What? And lucky for Travis, Tom, and I, we're all within driving distance. So we're like, whatever. We'll give it a go. I mean, they begged us to come. But we had no idea who all would be there. We had no idea who all would be there. And to my surprise, people like Ralph, you know, you guys, you bought a plane ticket and you're there. And it was awesome. There was a great group of people there. And we had a great time, not only factory tour, but then Brian, Eddie and Dwight did a great explanation of the game. And then they just let us play. They just let us play the game for however many hours. And we had a good time. You got to play it, Joe? I played it just a few times. Yeah, a few times. wish in hindsight i wish they would have had more than three because there were definitely more than there were i mean there were four player games going non-stop but um before we get into uh before we get into our thoughts on dnd ralph you're when did you get into pit like you're relatively new to this right so i got into pinball from a buddy of mine uh he has a youtube channel too his name's arcade hollywood and he was like really into like the arcade side of things right And he does a ton of stuff or last year he didn't, but he's done for years. He's helped with Pinball Expo. And so he one year he goes, well, hey, why don't you come to Pinball Expo? And my instant reaction was like, can we go to can we go to Galloping Ghosts? We're there. Like, honestly, I didn't even care. I was like, I was like, because I don't know. I just I didn't know the I didn't know the world that I'm in now until until that. So but it was the year I think it would have been the year after COVID. right because it was the godzilla was the premier game in the stern area and and and i left that event going oh my gosh like i want to buy a pinball machine like i need one of these like how did i not know and i was so shocked at how many people like i thought we're going to walk into this pinball expo and it's going to be like not that many people because i didn't understand the popular i don't know how because i was so deep in the arcade space but i think i would always just go to those like very arcade centric locations that didn't necessarily highlight pinball but Yeah, so I just fell in love with it. And then I bought my first game, like, probably a couple of months after that. I bought a Jurassic Park Pro, a used one. And then it was just from there. Then you're stuck. Yeah, it just took off from there. And he said to me privately, and many people did at that Pinball Expo, they were like, I guarantee you, within three years from this time, you're going to sell the majority of your arcade collection for pinball machines. And that's kind of actually happened. I went from 48 arcade games down to three. Wow. Now I have just pinball and a couple of arcade games. What's the three arcades you kept? Because obviously you must really love those arcades if they're still in your collection. I have an original Street Fighter II Champion Edition. It's mostly original. Those cabinets were kind of universal, but it was a Street Fighter II. and then I have a Sinistar which is a game that a lot of people don't like because they don't know how to play it it's really hard they think it's asteroids and they just shoot a bunch of stuff and then Sinistar kills them in two seconds and they're like what happened? well you have to mine the crystals it has a strategy to it sounds like Joel playing pinball the third one is which actually I might get rid of but the third one is Paperboy just because I like the unique controls of Paperboy it's a very cool controller yeah yeah there's one more but whatever used to do wait there's one more hang on joel what's the one more ralph the one more no one's one more the one more is like this rare version of sinistar so i have two it's the cockpit version of it okay but it's like to sell it you have to find a unique buyer because it's just like it's like a i mean it's like a vehicle i mean it's like a little car yeah it's kind of unique you still have some like emulators and stuff though right I do have that. I didn't count that. So there's a couple of multi-cades. And then I have an American Pinball product, apparently. I have the Polycade. Polycade. Something from American. I guess it's not American Pinball, but they distribute it, I guess, or something. I still don't understand that partnership, to be honest. Nobody does, Ro. Well, I mean, my path, we don't have to get into everything, but my path was similar, which was all arcade. And then you get Pinball, and then you're hooked. And all of a sudden, all your arcade games are gone, because that's money or space that could go towards Pinball. and I know you have a heavy um uh arcade one-up background modding emulating you know I've seen some of your stuff on that and um yeah so all the arcade games I have have been replaced with a chulix cabinet with a pandora box and I'm good with that you know you can scratch your nostalgia itch that way right so so but what the reason I was asking this though is because now you actually have a pretty good collection but it's all I mean it's all modern like it's all within the last two years right like what's your current lineup pretty much so i have jaws premium which i've made look like an le that's i the one weird thing about me though is i've got i still really enjoy i enjoy like making them my own too like at first it was more about that and less about playing less about like getting hardcore into the gameplay and it's only been over the last like year and a half that i started playing more on location being like wow i i really love learning the deep rules of a game. So I think that's what's really attracted me to it. It's the, wow, there's so much more than just what meets the eye. It goes very deep. And it will depend on what different games do. Some are higher level that are easier, and some go really deep. So it's Jaws, it's Uncanny X-Men, which Tom seemed to have got rid of his very quickly. It was there for like a day. It's all Travis' fault. It's the L.E. on the Oh, Ellie. Oh, nice. Okay. John Wick, Ellie. I know I get beat up for that one. I traded my Godzilla color for the black and white. Okay. I really, honestly, and it's weird. Someone else, I think it's the, who's the guy from Stumblr that does all the mods? Davey. Yeah, Davey claimed on a video that his black and white played better than his color. And I agree with that. I feel like either that or I've just gotten that much better. I feel like I just play better on the black and white. So I don't know if like geometry wise, they tweaked some things on the black and white. I don't know. I'm assuming it has the new bushings. So ever since after Godzilla, it was when stranger things came out is when now all the flipper mechs have their, the bushings have a tighter tolerance. So pretty much any game that's been made after stranger things has that. So there are, yeah, if you get a Godzilla that was made today, color edition, it's gonna, the flippers are going to feel stronger than a godzilla on reveal and what you're saying like that was me like 40 bushings probably i think they're like two bucks of set they're not saying you know these games are expensive yeah yeah yeah yeah i got i got rid of um i had to get rid of something because i can only fit six up against the wall although i do or five up against the wall so i have um you know in order for them to be spaced so that you can kind of like have room move the game yeah yeah so i um i got rid of venom for metallica remastered because i really really fell in love with it when we when we got to play it yeah i think i think everybody listening will agree with that decision except for hottie shout out frisco pinball but uh it's uh venoms i mean i had fun with venom but metallica remastered is incredible yeah i love it and then i do have one um i mean i consider it an older game but i guess you know you can go back to ems would be like considered the older games but um i just got a terminator 2 and i and so i've been kind of and i i was like i'm a little i i wanted a terminator 2 even when i wasn't into pinball because i wanted to put it next to my terminator 2 arcade game because i had the shooting game yeah uh and i really there's a whole story on terminator 2 but it would it would take too long so it's not that interesting so i wouldn't go into it here but i'm loving that because i'm getting into like i just changed the coils on the flippers so i'm like really trying to get into like what is what is it like to maintain the older games yeah um but speaking of that appreciate the newer ones even more well speaking of that the one thing that i'm shocked at getting into this hobby because i've been tinkering a lot more i'm kind of shocked that it's solder joints on everything like i'm shocked that no one's got like quick connects for components i feel like that's something that someone should do there there are manufacturers jack does yeah do they okay pretty sure yeah or i don't mind but like if you think the general consumer trying to get like some like someone off the street that doesn't maybe feel comfortable soldering something because i've had cold solder joints on several of my games but i just you know go under there boop boop and i'm done but you know there are some some manufacturers do that where all major coils or mechs are have a molex connector instead of uh so you could swap out the whole mechs by literally unplugging it but um yeah yeah but i i wanted to i wanted to ask about your collection because it sounds like you're at a point where a lot of people get which is like i can fit four games down here you can fit six so now every new game if in your in the back of your head you're thinking i might want this game what that means is you got to get rid of one of your games and so yeah that's now that the listeners know you know jaws godzilla wick x-men and metallica those are your five and Terminator 2. Terminator 2. So it's like this game. So D&D, you know, you show up just like we did. Is this a game that I may buy? You know, you're comparing it to those six while Tom's comparing it to his 85 games. I don't have that many. And OK, 84. My bad. And are you going to ask me right now if I had to get rid of something? Because I'm like, I'm already like going through my mind thinking. Sure. Which one's out the door? Which one's out the door? And why is it John Wick? So you can't be an arcade game. Don't say an arcade game. You're making a huge-ass assumption that I want D&D. I was there with you. I saw you play. You saw the twinkle. You saw the twinkle, I know. You saw it. Damn it. Was I making it that obvious? No. Spoiler alert, most of us enjoyed the game. Most of us enjoyed it a lot. I really did. Yeah. I really did. Which one's on the way out? That's what we want to know. All right, so I'm going to say right now I'm really torn between two because there's no way Godzilla's leaving. metallica i've like really fallen in love with like the game is just fun like you you play it and you smile like it's just fun i don't know i have so much fun with it so i can't imagine metallica jaws i just feel like man the the way they integrated the theme is just too cool and then i love that they went above and beyond with all those extra modes like i was talking to um uh elizabeth geese it's elizabeth right and i was like man i love the shark is broken like you're So that was such a creative, cool thing. Like, I actually like that more than the other one, the other mode they did. The topper mode? Yeah. Yeah, I like it better. Versus the 8-bit mode? Okay. Yeah, I like it better than that. But I just, there's a cool, like, horror, you know, creepy vibe to it. But, so that leaves Wick and X-Men. Now, X-Men needs to get better very quickly because I'm just kind of sick of going through the missions. The missions don't feel that interesting to me. Like, I feel like I'm in and out of them, and I'm like, oh, cool. Like, it doesn't, I don't know. Am I alone with that thought? No. I don't know why Tom sold the game. Am I wrong, Tom? Am I speaking out of turn? Travis killed it. That's all I'm going to say. He keeps blaming me for it. I just know where the points are, Tom, so I shoot it where the – No, I mean, but that's the thing. You're absolutely right, and let me tell you, the points are flowing. Flowing from that center ramp, yeah. I think what we're all figuring out is – and, Ralph, you're probably figuring this out too. It's whenever you're you're playing pinball and you start realizing what's happening with the rules, whether or not it's points or whether or not it's just the story of the game, you have to you have to hit certain beats and it has to feel like you're getting constantly re hooked in over and over again. So I talk to a lot of people about this, that it's like as soon as you hit the start button, that's the first hook, right? Like hearing the sounds and you feel like you're pulled in. Then it's as soon as you plunge. does that pull you in immediately to hit certain shots do you hear the call outs like the lights everything pulls in together and then it becomes once you're in a mode or a mission does it feel like you're getting pulled in at that point and that's kind of where x-men suffers a little bit is everything just kind of feels same same even though it's you know it's technically not if you peel back the curtain a little bit you really dig down into it but just on the surface it's understandable how it feels that way just because the the call out some of the x-men kind of feeling the same kind of when you hear things and it's just like even when we heard dnd the call outs there it was apparent as soon as you hit start the sound just felt different the voice cash just hit different and that that makes a big difference i think overall and whether or not a game will stay long term for people especially home setting because face facts you hear all the call outs when you're at home. You're on location, you have a hard time hearing it. At home, everything gets pulled back, everything gets revealed, then you hear everything with that pen. And we, so that's the one thing that, at Stern, I don't think any of us really have a good understanding of the audio in D&D. I mean, when it's, we're in kind of an arcade room, the games we're all being playing, it was hard to, at least for me, it was hard to hear the game, but I have no doubt. You got to understand what's the first thing i told you as soon as as soon as dwight hit start when he was going over some things what's the first thing i leaned over and told you joel i think you said i need to fart is that was that how it hurts i don't know i told you about the music travis right i told joel and elizabeth i'm like you feel it immediately as soon as you hit start and that's the thing it's like you can't jerry thompson right yeah it's yeah and i mean it's just you know when some sound packages are going to hit differently than others they certainly are but there's no way like when you look at how this game was marketed right it was about the dragon mech and it's about the voice cast that's the two things this wasn't like look at the animations we have 10 hours of 4k video it was in our game right there's none of that yeah right it was strictly here's the voice cast it's It's like 18 characters. When they put the names of the voice cast, that means it means something. And so you have to fully expect that they're going to utilize that voice cast. And I think it's even been put out there that there's, what, 11,000 voiceover lines or above that? That's what Elizabeth said. It's a lot. Compared to Jaws, it's like 300. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this game, too, each character, you know, they all have similar call outs as in because you could play one of four characters. But then when you beat the game, you unlock three more. And so those three more characters, what she was saying was they technically all have the same lines, but yet they all deliver it differently. They all ad libbed differently. So it's like even though some of it may be similar, it's like they all have their own personal traits to them and everything. And she said, unfortunately, her favorite three characters line-wise, dialogue-wise are the three you have to unlock. So I really hope that people spend the time to work through the game and beat it and slowly unlock those characters so they can get to enjoy how much is actually built in that game. Well, they should be able to, though, Joel, because the new thing on this game. Yes. I think that'll change things a lot. Absolutely. And I just so, OK, before we get into the nitty gritty, what I want to say is the four of us all went. But I think the four of us had different thoughts going into it. And what I mean by that is, you know, Tom, do I need this game? Do I need to buy this game? Because he's I know, Tom, you've said like you've bought the last few and some of them haven't stayed very long. So it's like, do I need to jump on this now? Should I wait? I know Ralph is probably thinking, do I want this game? I'm looking at it as like, OK, I'm going to stream this in a month. I just want to learn as much as I can. Travis, though, had a unique perspective because Travis works for the pinball company. And there was a decision there on is this game a game that the company wants to commit to selling? And what, just to peek behind the curtain, like pinball companies, you get an allocation where it's like, this is the amount of games that Stern has for you. Are you taking them or not? And the thing is, if you don't, then you might get less on the next game or the next, like you'll get dinged for it potentially. And the next game is. For the record, Stern, this is Joel talking. This is me talking. This is me. This is what I've heard from all distributors. It is a decision. You have to make a rather large decision of, am I prepared to sell this at? Right, yeah. And to be fair to Stern, Stern invited the distributors and dealers up to prior to the media that morning. So the only reason why we weren't there is because I don't own a shovel. So that's why we weren't there for that one. But, yeah, and I talked to you guys before this came out. I know nothing about Dungeons & Dragons. All I know is, is how I look at a theme, how will it appeal to people? And this one, all the metrics and all the analysis that I had, it scared me, quite frankly, because I didn't know. And it's certain things weren't matching up. I'm not going to say what those are publicly, but certain things weren't matching up. So I knew because it wasn't matching up up front, that there had to be a strong push early on in the release of this for it to get out there and for people to notice it. because it's pinball. People are always going to know the next pin, right? Like anybody that's listening to this podcast, they're there. They already know because they're on Penn side. They're on Facebook. They listen to content. We all know like we all talk about it. But, you know, for this, it was very much the unknown, like what's going to happen. And, you know, let's face facts, too. There was a lot of a lot of uneasiness because, you know, Brian Eddy's last design was Venom, Let's face facts. Venom didn't perform compared to the other pinball machines that have come out. And Stern has said as much. So we were curious to see what that would be like whether or not it was going to be another fan layout or whether or not he was going to go to a dynamic layout And of course he opted for a dynamic layout which was great to see It something that fresh by him that he hasn done in a few years So yeah, it's, that was kind of like my mindset was looking at this pinball machine and saying, okay, not only will the pinball enthusiasts, will they be into it, but will somebody beyond pinball right now be into it? Like, will this be the hook? Because without star Wars, cause keep in mind, star Wars just got vaulted, right? That was the number one theme that would hook a brand new player to pinball. Brand new, because Star Wars is by far the biggest theme out of anything. So it's almost like you still need those themes to hook somebody new to get them interested, right? Because we're interested in pinball. We all are. And then theme. But people that don't know pinball, it's going to be theme first. They'll draw them in, and then they'll see something unique like pinball. And that might get them going. And I think that's what we're seeing here. that's that's kind of the dynamic that's happening i'm happy it did i really am so let's um let's just go around then and um you know i'm curious travis because you know spoiler alert you guys are excited about the game you are fully prepared to sell this game like it was it was a good what you saw on media day was was positive um but from a business standpoint yes from exactly so like all good and i've heard that from other distributors or i've heard when it comes to allocation, like it sounds like pretty much everybody's in, this is a game that they're prepared to sell and sell well, which is great. I feel confident in saying that this LV will, will sell through by Stern and I think distributors and dealers will sell out of it eventually. I don't see this as sitting around too long. Which is great. So let's just go around real quick. We'll start with Tom, but Tom, what was at the media day? Was it during the presentation? Was it during your initial play? What, what stood out to you in a positive way as in like okay that's cool or like what what was is there a moment is there a mech is there something about the rules what what stood out to you that you experienced on on media day um i was pleasantly surprised by like a lot of the modes um you know of course i had dwight and elizabeth right by me kind of guiding me through the game but um I was surprised at how really deep this game is going to be. And I don't think anybody could really get through it in one session. Like, it just seems like it just keeps building and building on top of itself. And, like, I wasn't the biggest fan of Venom. I didn't think the layout was great on it this layout is like 10 times better than Venom I mean the shots are all there it's pretty it's pretty open game I guess I want to say like it's not it's accessible right? it's accessible that's exactly it and maybe in some regards a little too accessible, but I just thought it was great. I honestly did. I know there's some things like if it was in a tournament, I know I'd have to change some things, but, yeah, overall, it seems like it could be a winner. I think all that's accurate I know the modes that was going to be my answer as well what was so cool was this was a game that I wanted to watch other people play because you can explore the map in so many different ways and Elizabeth said there are six cities each city or town two of the towns have two modes two of the towns have three modes and two of the towns have one mode so you do the math that's 12 modes total and they're all different and that was what was cool was, even though I couldn't really hear him, but like looking over and it's like, okay, what's going on in that mode? Oh, that's clearly a switch-based mode. The one mode I've described many times, there's like a sneak factor. There's a sneak percentage. So every time you hit the slings, that percentage goes down. And if ever gets to zero, then guards pop out. So now instead of hitting the shots you need for the mode, you got to defeat the guards before you can hit the shots again for the mode. And that mode really fits that theme. A hundred percent. Right. Yes. And And that's the dungeons too. I watched Tom. He was in a dungeon and it has multiple levels, multiple phases to it. And phase one was very different than phase two. And it's like that's that storyline that just have me play this game in a different way. Like I'm all about that. I'm all about that. So I huge hats off to Elizabeth and Dwight for some amazing modes. And I don't think I've seen like, I don't know, five. There's just there's so much more. Every town has its own dungeon. Every dungeon has multiple phases. like the wizard modes aren't even there's three wizard modes they're not even in the game yet like there is there's clearly going to be a ton of content in this game to explore um ralph what what stood out to you what was the uh that twinkle in your eye when did that appear when did that appear on january 7th well i definitely didn't go into it like my i almost went into it thinking um oh i'm i'm not gonna buy it like it's gonna because i don't i'm not a dungeons and dragons Like I didn't grow up playing it. So I kind of just thought, oh, you know, I'm going to go and I'm going to enjoy it. And then I get to talk about it. And that was kind of going to be it. And then and honestly, I love Dwight and Brian. They're both great. But when they were going through like I would prefer when someone tells me about the game, like I watch your guys's content for that, really, because it's like a consolidated, concise like this is what you do. They went very, very heavy into it. And so it's hard, right? You bring us all into the room and then you show us these games. And I'm just like, oh, I can't wait to play. So I think there was a part of me where their voices started to sound like wah-wah, even though they were saying awesome stuff. So I felt bad because I'm like, I don't care right now. Like, now I want to just play it. But I appreciated that they did that. And also it was really cool to, I think you guys both mentioned it, but it was really cool that Elizabeth, like, she was really into wanting to hear feedback, but also coming over and saying like, hey, explore this or that. So I thought that was really helpful. But it wasn't until actually I played it that I go, oh, wow, this actually is a game I think I would really enjoy. And, um, some of it for me was, was, uh, I know it's been said probably multiple times, but I thought it was kind of cool where that, that shot where that third flipper is, where you kind of like shoot, I think it's like the left side of the gelatinous cube and it kind of loops around and then it holds it for a second. It allows someone like me, who's maybe not as skilled to like take some time with that shot. And, uh, and, and I, I loved that because that shot was really satisfying when you shoot that ramp across the other way. I just found I was like really happy with the way it was shooting like the shots were very very fun and then when you piled on the like painstaking long time they probably took in like kind of coming up with all these rules and cool modes to do I was like this is going to be one of those really cool at home games because there's so much to explore yeah and I was in my mind going back to X-Men and by the way I do like X-Men it's fun to shoot I don't want to make it seem like I'm like it has really fun shots and stuff but there's just not as much to it so I was thinking wow this is one where I could invest a lot of time in at home where X-Men I feel like I'm already kind of bored with, unfortunately. So yeah, it hooked me like that. And to your point though, Joel, the one thing I would have liked to get a little bit more of is I hate when you can't, when it isn't a loud environment, it is really hard to get a grasp of like how, because there are so many amazing call-outs that we heard in the trailers that we didn't really get to hear or experience as much. And then the music sounded like it was going to be really cool. in the beginning when it wasn't as loud but if you remember the tail end of that day there was a lot more people in that room so at that point you couldn't hear really anything you were just hearing like the flippers and and and like you know they have the basically the mechanical aspects of the game but uh yeah i i'm excited and i think um there's some cool innovative stuff in there too like the dungeon crawl thing is pretty neat and i'm sure i'll reserve this part but i think this is one where i have a a way different opinion than i normally do about like the trim level and what one I would potentially buy if I was like looking at this game. Okay. Cause you, yeah, you've mentioned X-Men LE, uh, WIC LE. So I'm, I'm guessing, I'm guessing you're not, you're not leaning towards the LE is what I'm hearing. No, no, I don't think you have to hear it. That's what's cool about it. Yeah. Yeah. The, we'll, we'll get more into that. The, the pro versus the premium LE for sure. Um, audio, I've heard somebody say, um, uh, that they feel that, uh, Audio is like 50% of the pinball experience. And that's what's tough about playing a game at a show or even in this environment or arcade environment. You really are missing out on a huge part of, in my opinion, the experience, which could be good or bad. There have been pinball machines that I've streamed, and I know 15 minutes into playing, how do I turn down this music? This music is already grating on me, while others, it's like, holy cow, this is really pulling me in. Stop ripping on Rush. I didn't say rush. I did not say rush. Travis, at what point on Tuesday did you think to yourself, okay, we can sell these? Like this is something I can market. I mean, honestly, we kind of knew already on the drive up there because we were like working all the way up there and just working hard on just marketing stuff and all that. But, I mean, I don't know. it's like my opinions on it is kind of unique because I have the personal opinions and then I have the business opinions, right? Because at the end of the day to sell a game, of course, you want to sell a game that somebody else wants. It doesn't matter necessarily what your opinion is. All that matters is, is the customer and user happy with what they got, you know? So I think that's important. So usually when I'm looking at a game, first and foremost, I'm thinking, okay, how does the average person view this? And when I say average, I'm meaning like the average consumer that might get a game, might not, kind of knows pinball, kind of doesn't, may, you know, it's like the same way if we have like an Xbox, right? We might buy a game on there. It doesn't mean that we're going to frequent like every single message board and talk about the lore of the game. You know, we might go deep, we might not. So that's kind of how I approach that. Like just to find that baseline average level of somebody that might get it and might go deep into it. So just looking at this game, when I saw it, first off, seeing a different layout, big plus. Like, big, big plus. Because if you can get, yes, like, Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness, yes, it was big for the day that it was in. Like, back in the early 90s, late 80s. Like, those days, yes, it made sense to have a fan layout, to have, you know, the different sounds with that. But now when you get into it, these games, they go mostly to homes nowadays. They just do. So therefore, having something interesting for somebody to play is really needed. And the way that you can do that is through a dynamic layout at the beginning. That's why Keith Elwin games are so damn popular because the layouts are always dynamic. They're always interesting. That's where people go nuts whenever, you know, at the beginning for X-Men when it came out because the layout was unique. It was something a little bit different that a lot of people hadn't seen before. So that's the first thing I noticed. And the second thing I noticed is that dragon mech is freaking huge. Yeah. So much bigger than it looked in the video. It was like so much bigger. Yeah. The videos, the pictures, it does not do it justice. I was looking at that thing. I was just like, how the hell did they fit it in there? And I don't know if it's because of just like the cave part of it. That's just, they managed to get that sculpt really big. And obviously that, you know, the cave part doesn't move, the dragon head moves. But it just, it takes up a lot of real estate though, an incredible amount. And if you really want to get an idea of how much real estate it truly takes up, just watch back on Stern's gameplay reveal, because this might've got lost on a lot of people because there's just so much going on for that. And I got thoughts about that reveal, but there's so much going on there that if you just sit there and just watch nothing but Wrath the Relentless, which, Joel, Wrath is the dragon, I have to confirm that. That does make sense. But if you look at that dragon, you'll see how far it moves. And it moves a lot. Yeah, it moves a lot. And so that was the next thing I noticed. And honestly, I thought, personally for me, I thought the coolest mech on there, though, was the cube. I was actually more impressed by the cube than I was the dragon. That was a lot bigger than I thought it would be, too. Yeah, the cube was massive. But that magnet, though, I really liked how that was implemented. And I wasn't expecting that at all because I don't remember that being on any of the marketing material, how they explained it, except for during the gameplay reveal. They kind of briefly explained it. But, yeah, Joel, do you want to tell everybody what that cube actually has in it? The gelatinous cube has a – so, I mean, in D&D, the whole thing of the gelatinous cube, like when you're battling it, you're just stuck in it. Like it's really hard to battle because you're stuck, and they implemented it really well because there's a magnet. It's one magnet, but because it's elevated off the play field, they can use the magnet to, one, talk about what Ralph said, where they can slow the ball down when it's on the lower orbit to just stop the ball for a second and then drop it on your upper flipper to give you a better shot because it's controlled at that point. I think we all know in three or four flipper games, a lot of times the upper flippers get ignored by casual players because they don't think to look up there or realize they're behind on the ball or whatnot. So the fact that they can use that magnet to help with that shot is awesome. But then that magnet is also, it can grab the ball on the upper side. So there's an up-down ramp on the left orbit, and if the ramp is down, that means when you hit the ball, it's going to go up the ramp and then go through the cube. And you hit that enough times, it'll lock a ball up there. But I don't know the exact combination, but to start the gelatinous cube multiball, you're supposed to knock that ball off the magnet. So you're supposed to hit that left side again. But there is a way where you can lock a ball under it. There's a way you can get a four-ball multiball. I think it's by hitting the left side. it releases a ball again, but keeps that other ball locked. Okay. Where you can keep going, I think. Because I could have swore they said that if you hit the right orbit while it's there, then it's just a three ball multiball. Okay. There's some way to do it. I mean, you might be able to hit that kind of horseshoe shot in the upper right, because that would be a slower shot. Maybe the magnet will grab in. Yeah, I'm not sure. But there's a way that you can basically get it to lock two balls, then you hit the ball off the magnet, and then it ejects out of force. So that, that gelatinous cube multiball can be anywhere from two to four balls. And it's just a really unique mech. I mean, magnets are awesome. Um, but I, I think the mech, that mech is awesome. The dragon mech though, um, I know personally, I, I, I want a game that's going to keep me entertained, but I also want a game that anybody can walk up to and have a good time. And, and that was one of my issues with Venom was it was when, when Venom was in my house, there was, there wasn't anything that I could point to, to like tell my wife or whoever, like, just do that, you know? and watch what happens. Like, they're just, as much as the moving play field, how cool as that is, for a novice player, they're not noticing. They don't see that. And this game's the opposite. This game has the gelatinous cube is really cool. That upper flipper shot is really cool. But the dragon, the way we played it, you have to spell dragon, so you hit the gold underneath him. They had it already set up to three. So you only had to hit that three times, and then you had to hit the right orbit. So hopefully they leave it like that. I think that's by far the smartest thing you can do is to have your main mech fully involved as early as possible in the game. Because it feels like a boss battle immediately, like very quickly. And that's excellent for casuals. So three shots to the gold and then one shot to the right orbit. And if they can do that, then you're in an incredibly unique multiball. I don't know if anybody wants to describe that or their feelings on that. I have thoughts. Tom has thoughts. Ralph has thoughts too, I bet. let's start with Tom's thoughts. Tom, what are your thoughts? Did you ever even do the dragon? I know you love the gelatinous Q multiball. Every time I saw you play, that was the multiball you were playing over and over again. Uh, no, I mean, yeah, I've, I played the dragon once or twice. Um, but I was doing more of the pin save stuff. So I was like continuing on my focus every time I played it. But, uh, no, yeah. Like the dragon's pretty cool. I mean, you, you, like you were saying, you start the multiball and then you can pop your shield up and there's just balls spitting around everywhere so on the pro it's six and on the uh on the premium le it's eight yeah and uh you're you're basically battling the dragon and you have to basically hit the dragon as many times as it says i think it was like five uh versus like draining like 15 of your balls so like balls will continually shoot out but it kind of reminded me a little bit of the like wizard mode on world cup soccer like you had to shoot a goal oh yeah but like when you drain the ball like it counts against you so it reminded me just a little bit like that but but this was more um i don't know like like chaotic it was a fun yeah it's definitely more chaotic uh you definitely want to use that shield when you're uh in that mode but yeah the and just to clarify so on a premium le the the the head goes left and right but then it also goes up and down and what's neat is when the head's up you can't hit it um so so during that multiple during that chaos you you have to watch you have to wait to see when he swoops his head down and when he swoops his head down that's when you want to hit him to hit his jaw i don't know if you got to watch it we saw Well, Kerry Hardy completed it, so I think anybody could complete it. That was on a pro. It's not, but you can't just, well, you probably could. Well, Kerry probably flailed. But anyway, you do have to, but there's a timing aspect to it. It's not just hit the bash toy that's always there. There is a dynamic aspect to it. And then on the pro, the pro doesn't go left and right, but it still goes up and down. So you're trying to track all these balls that are flying around, trying to make sure you don't drain any of them. But then out of the corner of your eye, you're like, oh, the head's down. I need a head over there. because if the head's up, the gold targets are actually kind of dangerous. It's a wall, basically. I mean, the ball's going to come flying back at you. There's a huge nuance, though. Did you realize what the nuance was as soon as the dragon head went up? I don't know if anybody else noticed this. There's still shots out there on the play field for jackpots. Yes. I didn't notice that. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And that's very unique that some people noticed it, some didn't. And I think that's great because that shows it's like the game really wants your attention right there. But if you're, you know, the type of knucklehead like I am that you want to try to score some points, it's like, yeah, that's available too, which is pretty cool because it's like you still have to beat the dragon, right? To get to your celebration multiball or victory multiball, whatever it was that they called it. But the idea of like still scoring jackpots and building up value when you can't actually attack the dragon, it's almost like thematically, it's almost as if you're getting your guys in place or you're getting your shots in place just to get a bigger shot off, you know, something like that. So there is, it's not just all spam all day if you don't want it to be. But what's great is you're not missing out on anything either if you do just want to spam the dragon the whole time as well. Absolutely. That's a mark of a great mode when you do something like that. And I asked, I think it was Dwight, I said, you know, are you concerned at all that tournament players will just cradle up, you know, like five balls on the left flipper and just wait, pop a shot when he goes down? And he goes, no, the tournament players are going to be too distracted by all the jackpots on the ramps and stuff. So he goes, they're not going to want to rush through this battle because they're going to want to be cashing out on jackpots. And it's not until they're down to, you know, only having three balls left or something before they lose that all of a sudden now they're going to start attacking the dragon. So having that that I mean, that's really cool. So I'm just for a novice to step up to the game. I hope and I think that they may be able to experience a very cool multiball that basically has an endless ball save for a good period of time for them to just go nuts on because it's very thematic. Let's do this, Joel. An easy way to describe this to the people that have not got a chance to play this yet. And we'll just start with Ralph. In just a couple of sentences, what was your feeling as soon as you first got in to the first Dragon multiball and you first experienced it? oh i was like super excited i mean it was it was so excited i mean exciting would be the the the word i would use but it was funny because i gotta tell this really quick because it has to do with the dragon so elizabeth was like telling me what town to pick and all these things and what character i should she's like what do you like doing and she was really explaining it to me and i was following what she was saying for a while and i was actually playing it was weird she's i was like i feel like you standing next to me is really making me play better because i was playing way better than i normally do which was making me feel good because i i i feel like if one of you guys came over i would probably be terrible and it would make me feel embarrassed but i got you because i get the pressure to me yeah i experienced that when joel was by me too so she goes after a while i started i guess getting distracted by the dragon and she's like so i was focusing on the dragon she's she wasn't meaning that she's so sweet She's like, you really like the dragon. It was like, you really like that dragon, like, don't you? And I was like, yeah. So I kind of I definitely was one that it was fun. But what was weird is I had a couple of friends that went to CES and they were telling me that they stayed away from the dragon because when they were hitting that targets, it was like really like they were draining those balls and that it was a dangerous shot. I don't know if those games are maybe not leveled right because I felt like as long as I was paying attention, I could I could hit that and not like I was safe. I could safely hit it and it wasn't going like straight down the middle every time I hit it. So I don't know. But I was hearing some weird things about the pitch and the level of the games at CES. So I think they were probably set up better for us than they than they were at the CES. That wouldn't shock me at all. The difference between a game that goes out across the country and gets set up. You're at the mercy of whoever's setting that up and then how much it's being played. Whereas if you have it in a controlled environment, like we had Stern Factory, hopefully those were set up and pretty well dialed in. Because if they weren't, then, yeah, that would be a little wild. Do you guys think that they put the pitch on all the games? I wasn't noticing because I was so enamored with playing it. But do you think they put those all at 6-5 just for purposes of that? All those games are on training wheels, for sure. We were all on Joel mode, no doubt. Well, Joel mode. It's Ralph mode too, Joel. Joel mode scored higher than Tom mode at some point, would you just say? That's because I was in the pin save. I was in the wizard mode. I will say, though, that that's an excellent way to enjoy pinball, though. Like, we mess with Joel all the time about it, but truth be told, you get outside of tournaments. I mean, you want the games to be enjoyable. You want to get progression. That's the key. And that's why I like that dragon multiball early on. Yes the targets are dangerous and they always will be just because it stand targets They closer to the flippers Right exactly And you know I mean it Stern flippers Like that ball comes off like a rocket now So you never know with that But I think having the shield early on, I forget. Was the shield available off the plunge? It's available from the get-go. Yeah, so it's almost like one of those things. All you want to do then, if you're a newer player or you just want to experience that, maybe it's just plunging, tap the button get your shield up immediately and then just go to town while the ball saves on yep and you might be able to hammer it out and have your right orbit lit like super early to get into that multiball so that might be the meta to do something like that did you guys have problems with the shield at all because i had a conversation with elizabeth about it yeah i think that there's probably like a minor bug in it i think because there was a few times i was just tapping it with the shield light on and it didn't come up when it should have so i wasn't sure Lane it code wise to me, but she was saying like the code is looking for the switch to open close really fast. So the fat it's meant to be a fast tap. And she said her and Dwight were actually having like not an argument, but she was saying, well, look, if it's a fast tap. Like some people are naturally like going to like maybe a casual might hold it for longer, but then the shield is not going to come up. So she was trying to say, let's just make it a button press that maybe is a little bit more resilient to how long it's open close. And I did experience that a little bit because in my I have a video of me playing and I I'm hitting it a couple of times. And then one time I kind of quick flick it and it and it came up. No problem. So I guess there's some debate on that. That could be it, though, Ralph, because I experience the same thing. And even like I thought I was just tapping it and it still didn't come up a couple of times. And then it eventually came up. Maybe I'm just not fast enough. I don't know. Is this going to get weird? Yeah, Tom got it up. No problem. No problem. Yeah. Joel, you have the vasectomy. Okay. Let's go ahead. If we want to go there, Joel, we will go there. No, I didn't go there. I wasn't going there. I appreciate that part of the podcast. Mom and dad are going to argue here. No, I appreciate that part. Yeah, only because I haven't gotten one yet. And I think I need to. So I was like, hey, Joel, share the experience, please. The reverse commercial of the series. But I will say with the Tealess button there or the action button there, it does have, like right above the lockdown bar, it does have a graphic that shows what to do with the action button. It clearly says tap to raise shield and hold and release. It's your range weapon. I didn't even see that. Right. Yeah, and that's funny. That's how he does it. Yeah, like literally only 5% of people do it. But it is there. But honestly, that's where I was like trying to tap it. And even Dwight was right there. And Dwight was like, I think he eventually helped me. Shit, I'm going to have to say it. Okay, Joel, he eventually helped me get it up. And the shield didn't come up eventually. So maybe it was just me. Maybe I'm the one with the problem. I will figure it out. I just want to clarify all that. So the shield, there is a physical mech between the flippers that comes up, and it stays up for a period of time. And depending on what character you have or perks, it'll stay up longer or shorter. And it's awesome because it really fills that gap perfectly. And you can even set up shots by letting the ball rest between the shield and the tip of your flipper. And then you can like backhand some shots you normally won't. It is a very cool mech. It is not a reactive mech. And what I mean by that is it's not like a ball save thing like the life ring on Jaws or a magna save on another game of like, oh, crap. And it's, it's more, you want to do it. It's strategic. And I love that. So if you know, it's like, okay, I'm the dragon, the dragon's gold shot. I have actually drained off that more than once when I was there. And it's like, if you're not paying attention or you try to do a bailout shot or Tom. Yeah. Yeah. Try to do a bailout bailout shot and you hit the gold. And then the thing comes screaming back at you. It's like, crap. I, I, you know, I, I messed up. I, so what I'm saying though, is if, if your goal, if you're playing somebody and it's like, I just got to get into that multiball throw your shield up, give yourself, you know, five, 10 seconds of protection and then bash the gold. And that's what I think is really cool. I don't, I don't know of another mech like that where I'm like strategically saying, I'm going to enable this to give me a little bit of comfort for the next 10 seconds. Now the button, what they're saying is, yes, you have to tap it to pop the shield up. If you're in a battle, the button will flash blue. And what that is, is there's a range attack. every character has a range attack if you look at all the main shots they have a larger arrow which is typically indicating the mode or what you need to do with that and then there's a smaller like equilateral triangle it is it is a smaller triangle and what that does is if you push and hold the button you'll see a blue light like scrolling across those triangles very quickly very quickly and if you let go of the button so you push and hold and then you let go of the button that's where you're shooting your range attack so you can attack creatures or what elizabeth or dwight was saying is you can purposely like miss and it'll distract the creature so it'll keep them from attacking you a little longer and that shot has a cooldown period so after so many seconds it'll flash blue again and you can use again so more strategy so when you're in a battle it's like do i want to attack do i want to hit my mode shots should i have my shield up should i be using my range weapon and then there's perks associated with that so later on um they said the arrow will either slow down based on your abilities or they said there's like a artifact that you can find that would give you two arrows out there so you're shooting and it's just that type of strategy slash like thought process of what do i what should i be doing right now playing defense offense modes i didn't know about the distraction that's really cool actually i did not know about that yeah and it's just and i get it for like how do you communicate all these nuances to joe schmo that just steps up to the game there i guarantee there are people at the media day that never knew there was a range weapon like they have no idea why the button flashed blue actually elizabeth told me i i wouldn't elizabeth did tell me about it but i don't think she told me about the distraction three of you didn't didn't see the graphic i didn't read what you're saying right now i didn't read a thing oh man it doesn't say it doesn't say that part ralph but like right above the action. It's literally right above the action button. It says what the action button does. I was looking at the dragon and so was Ralph. I'm more disappointed in Tom than I am in Ralph. I was totally immersed in the play field. I didn't look at anything. He loved it. I have mild ADD though so like I kind of like I get so excited about stuff. Right. You see something flashing and you're like I'm going to bash it. ralph are you saying you're one of those guys have you ever played rush before ralph i have in tournaments but that's it not like for a long period of time are you one of those guys that when you drain out you automatically just hit the button no matter what oh oh yeah like if i'm yeah if i'm playing black knight or is it black knight that has the magna save oh yeah i hit it all the time i'm like why did i just do that there's no point of doing it yeah or i'll drain down the middle and hit my life preserver on jaws just because i'm like the chat then i just yeah well deadpool has the boom button and i think a lot of people are just used to that where it's like you go to drain you're like let me get rid of that you know let's see if i can get another shot in real quick boom button to unlit shot yeah that's that's high level you drain and you're and all of a sudden well rush all your yeah rush all you're doing is just changing the diverter on the way out so what's the shot on x-men that you charge up if i drain if i drain i still do the bishop shot i still do it i'm like maybe i can get it one last time you're like bishops coming for me that that is very similar to what joel was talking about with the arrow it's like almost the same thing let's be clear about it because when dwight was explaining to me the range weapon he goes yeah you're pushing a hole and you wait for the arrow to scroll and you let go when you want to shoot i go oh just like the bishop shot he goes no i did it first he's like he goes it is not like the bishop shot and i was like okay i was like well i'll make sure be told now it's not like was the one who came up with the bishop shot so from now on when we're talking when we're talking about x-men and they're like how does the bishop shot work it's like the range weapon in dnd that's how we need to this explains why joel was put in time out for five minutes okay i understand now it was not so oh yeah while we were playing joel reset our game right travis i oh oh my god tom i broke i was i wasn't gonna say anything ralph do you know what happened here do you know do you guys break something i didn't hear this dude the a-hole directly to your right at least that i'm watching on here he's the one that did it i didn't okay what did you do okay here's what happened i played the game ralph that's right no no no you played my game my game yeah here's what happened i logged in ball for you joel yeah exactly i logged in i played the dragon i got the dragon too i'm like okay i played this enough let's let somebody else have a turn i look around and there's joel just standing there like a little puppy dog and i'm like okay joel i'll be nice to you so for the record i am nice to joel without cameras on or anything like that so i'm like hey come here little buddy play my extra ball that's the bit right there yeah so he gets up and he starts playing and within like 10 seconds he just crashes the whole game and i'm like oh man great and so you know what else ralph what happened i go back i look at all my achievements gone they're all gone oh no and you know what this i hold it then he sends me a screenshot of all of his achievements that he has so mine are fine as soon as they they did their whole spiel and then they're like okay play well there's 20 people there and they all boom hop on games i was like i'll wait i'll wait a second so i went over i played two games x-men i'll wait mess up travis's game then i walk over and travis was like hey joel you want to play my extra ball sure so i i bashed the dragon a few times he came down i hit him two or three and then all of a sudden the head is just like it's just like like just i was like oh so that's what killing the dragon looks like i thought it was like dead on the and then all of a sudden the flippers die and everything drains and it and they're like joel and dwight's like what happened and they're like all of a sudden they're like joel broken joel broken i was like i've stood at this i've stood at this machine for 10 seconds okay like how is this my fault but what's funny is watching elizabeth and dwight they're like no seriously like what happened like what had gone on i'm like this wasn't even my and travis like well this is what i did i had to explain all Here we go. And they're like, okay. Let me paint a picture for you. The equivalent of this is like where Joel and I are the kids, and we're downstairs, and the parents are upstairs, and there's a loud bang. And the parents come, and then the finger pointing happens, and I have to step up and explain what actually happened. That's what it was. That's pretty much too T would have in there. A big thing, though, Joel. Joel, there is a big thing. So we talked about the dragon. We do need to talk about the other thing because Tom alluded to it and he obviously used it a lot. And that's the pin save. So that's like to me, that's a big deal with this. So, Tom, what were you doing with the pin save when you were playing? So so basically I would continue my character. So you have the option of either playing. You can use your character and you can start where you basically last left off. Or you can kind of start from the beginning. So it's a pretty cool feature. I like that. I wish more games had that because when you're doing well and all of a sudden you crap the bed because Joel's talking to you while you're trying to play, it would be nice to just go, okay, well, I'll just log in and start where I left off. So you, by default, when you log in with Insider Connected, there are four characters, and you pick what character you want. If I play a three-ball game, and in that game I beat two modes, what that means is next time I step up to the machine, if I pick that character again and I'm logged in, my two modes are already beaten. Wherever I was, whatever town I was in, if I was out in a dungeon, wherever I was, boom, that's where you pick off. So they say your character never dies in the game. You know, when you drain all three balls, you're knocked out. So when you log in again or hit start again, boom, you're back up. You're ready to go. What is neat, though, is out of the four characters, they said there are four characters, but there are actually four different parties is what they're saying. So what that means is if I choose the wizard and I beat two modes with her, and then the next game I pick somebody else, I'm back to zero. So it's like you could have four different paths, four different levels of accomplishment going at any point. And then if you happen to unlock the other three, technically you could have three other paths saved. And that's what's really neat is you can you're basically getting multiple save files and you can pick up where you left off. Or if they're saying if for whatever reason you you don't want to do that before you hit start, you can hit the action button and you can do a one shot. So you're still getting achievements, but you're back to a cleared map. And so that's what from a replayability standpoint, to me, I'm super excited about this game. Um, like in a, in a two hour stream, if I start at zero, is there any way that I'm going to see the end of the game in two hours of nonstop progression? Maybe, I don't know. But if I happen to play a mode I really like, I could then just log in with a different character and play that mode again. Like that. Well, and if that gets me really excited, you know, if you're playing Dungeons and Dragons and, you know, for five hours or whatever, and you, uh, you know, yeah. Yeah, to leave and come back in a week, you could continue where you left off. I played Dungeons & Dragons for like two years with my brother-in-law, and we played one campaign for two years, one extended storyline for two years of every Sunday getting together and our character picking up where we left off. So I think the theme, the thematic side of this is fantastic. He is a nerd. To be fair, if I played D&D, my character would have like a ZZ Top beard. He would be such a bad guy. So your fantasy character, really the only attribute you need is a beard. It's a fantasy for a reason, Joel. It's not based off real life. I can't grow a beard. I can't do that. You could actually replace Travis on this podcast. He'd be some warrior with a beard and a shovel. If there's any other shovel. I have a shovel in D&D. A shovel? That's awesome. Ralph, you had alluded earlier about trim levels. So let's talk about that. I think before you go on, Joel, Ralph, are you still good on time? Because I know we're getting close. Yeah, I'm still good. Sure. Okay, we're good. All right, let him roll then. Let him cook, Joel. Go ahead. Oh, you want to talk about the trim levels now? Trim levels, yeah. Yeah, well, I started with the LE, and normally that's a bad thing to do because you have the best one, right? And then you play it, and then you go and play the other ones. And depending on what interests you the most, I think if you're someone that's like, oh, my gosh, I want to have the best mech and the best, you know, then and you you don't you don't consider the game complete without the art blades and all the other things. Then I think you you just naturally want to buy that one. But what I found is even though the dragon did all the cool, like additional movement and it's definitely way more animatronic than it is on the on the pro. Obviously, it's the same between the premium and the L.E. I played the pro the most because I think people people must have started I don't know if there was like I don't know what happened but the room sort of shifted and like no one was on the pro so I went over and just started playing the pro and I was surprised because no one was behind me but no one so I just was like all right I'll just keep playing I kept saying like does anybody want to come play and everyone was all enamored with the premium and le but I didn't miss the additional stuff and I know that I do think my opinion on those types of things has changed as I've gotten more into like really the aspects of how the game plays is more important to me i think than like all the mechanisms and the that stuff now so i didn't miss it so i was thinking to myself if i was to buy this i wasn't missing that in the dungeon part the dungeon crawl like thing popping up and me having to shoot a ball into it for it to go down and then come back up and just give it back to me just didn't seem like that doesn't seem like an enough of an advanced feature for me to go oh my gosh, I need to have that. So if you can get away from the idea that the, maybe the dragon isn't as feature rich and it's not shooting the balls at you and stuff, I was pretty happy with the pro. And I, and normally, I don't know, I have this theory that because Stern is getting a lot of like feedback that prices, and I know some of it is just certain content creators just focus so heavily on price, but I think they're, and maybe I'm wrong, but my, my feeling is that they're intentionally trying to make the pros more feature rich so that when someone does have that entry level product, they don't feel like they're missing out on so much. Maybe that's wrong, but it just feels that way to me that that's what they're doing. You're 100% correct. And George Gomez was in the room and he actually made a comment about that. He said, we had a really hard time figuring out how to make a pro. And what they meant was like, we knew we couldn't get rid of the dragon. We knew we couldn't get rid of the cube. He said, so we were like, how do we simplify the dragon and we're happy with um you know getting them only go up and down but then they're like we knew we had to take something else out and they talked about taking the shield out for a long time but they felt that the shield gave such a really unique you know interactive mech from the player the shield because the shield's cool yeah yeah they took out the dungeon scoop instead and and when i hear that i'm like man that game if they would have taken out the magnet and the jock to gelactic gelatinous cube shield yes i think i think they would have been pushing a lot more people to the premium but i i think the pro is loaded on this game if you just look at the two games side by side you genuinely can't tell the difference um and yeah i think i would assume the pro will sell very well and be a hit on location um yeah but yeah and if you're into all the like making it look like the other ones now the everyone's really into the expression light kit so you can do that for the backbox lights there are no internal expression lights so you don't have to worry about that and they'll have the art blades i mean you can make it the i do the expression lights in the backbox when integrated is is really cool and adds a cool element to it but the fact that you can buy it now after market like you can have that same experience on a pro and just as long as you're okay making the concessions on the dragon maybe not being as feature rich and then the dungeon crawl scoop then yeah i think it's a it's a very viable pro to me and I think that seems to be the theme that Stern's following lately. I 100% agree. I am looking at the time. I know Ralph has to jump off. Was there any final comments you had, Ralph, on thoughts or anything like that? This is how deep the game is. I literally made pages of notes on the game because I didn't know where we were going to go with it. There's so much to it. When I got back, I wrote a bunch of notes because there's so much. I broke it down into like, well, I want to be honest with this. I wrote notes and I gave them to chat GPT and said, summarize this into categories. And it did a good job. Core gameplay, key shots, interactive toys like. But there's a lot to this game and it's in early code. So I'm just excited about it. And I didn't think I would be because D&D as a theme did not really interest me. And it's pretty cool when someone can come up with something unique enough and deep enough that someone that's not even a fan of that particular IP wants to buy it. That's pretty cool. For sure. So just to clarify, are you buying one? Is there one in order? No. Have you pulled a trigger? I never did tell you what game I was going to get rid of, but it would go too deep because then I'd have to compare John Wick to X-Men and then it'd get weird. Because I know everyone's got really strong opinions on John Wick, but I do think I'm going to get it. I really do. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. I might have sent messages saying, please hold one for me, but I can't confirm nor deny that. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Well, Ralph, we really appreciate you being on here today. Thanks for having me. This was fun. Great seeing you in person again. And if you want to go ahead and plug away, anything you got to plug, plug it up. Yeah. If you guys want to hear my, I had Ian from Nudge Magazine came over to, well, we went into the hotel and tried to record a podcast and got kicked out by security. So then we did it on the world's smallest couch in my hotel room. But I felt like it went pretty well. So you can see that on my podcast channel is Retro Ralph Live and the podcast is The Flipside. But it is also on Spotify. So if you do The Flipside podcast and then Retro Ralph, you can find it on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. And then my core YouTube channel is just Retro Ralph where I do like more longer form content. So it's like it's like very highly produced versus the podcast, which is more like turn on the microphone and hear my thoughts kind of thing. It's great stuff. Thanks. I appreciate that. It's been fun. Well, thanks again for hopping on. And, yeah, we'll definitely, hopefully we'll see you again at the next media event. Yeah, thanks, guys. Appreciate it. All right. Thank you. Okay, let's hope that wasn't an awkward transition as we had to stop an episode and restart an episode. Good news is, Travis, you now, once again, have the third best beard in Triple Drain in this podcast. We should do the intro again because of that, yes. Because of that. Okay, where were we? So D&D, let's just go ahead and let's just go just so it's not a gush fest. Honestly, we all enjoyed the game. The game was better. I will say, honestly, the game was better than I was expecting. Not that I had low expectations. I just didn't know what I was walking into. So you had no expectations. That's what you're saying. Yes. Okay. But I don't mean that in a bad way. Anyways. You cleared your mind. I honestly wasn't sure what to think because, like, I'm not a big Dungeons & Dragons fan. Like, I appreciate the, you know, the role-playing and all that stuff, but it's just not something I do. But, like, the theme is definitely a good theme for Pinball. my thing was coming into it i was thinking i don't think the stern video did a great job showing how it shot and and what i the issue was i agree with that dwight and and brian wanted to explain so much there's so much going on in the game so they kept telling nick wayne to trap up and so it'd be like he'd hit a shot and then wait for them to explain what you're talking about that gameplay right not not the reveal trailer but the gameplay okay any of it all the product that they had put out, none of it really showed, like, does this game have any flow? Do the shots combo well? Do they this? Do they that? So my first big surprise, you know, with my first game was like, this game actually shoots pretty well. Like, I'm happy with the way this shoots. There are some fun shots here. I'm enjoying these upper flipper shots. The game is pretty fast. That orbit, that ball's flying around. So that was something that was a surprise because I don't feel like the media that was produced showed that well. But the other side of it was being that I do like D&D, I know how complicated D&D can get. Like I know it. And part of me knows it from trying to explain it to Travis. Like trying to, like this is, here try to, this is probably what you should expect. This is what you can do. You know, he's asking like, well what's the difference, like what the difference between dexterity and constitution and wisdom and knowledge and all this stuff and I wasn taught what constitution was in that form Joel In Oklahoma constitution means something different than India apparently or D So, yeah, this is a side comment, but I saw it on online and I think it's great. This is the quote. So it's it's knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. I don't know. I just thought that was a great quote overall. But anyways, so I was very curious about that. I know Dwight can get real deep and nerdy. And it was kind of a how deep and nerdy are they going to let him go? Because I do feel like that game could get super overwhelming really quick or like very, you know, there was people saying, well, maybe you'll hit a shot and then you'll roll a die and you'll see this and maybe you'll do this. And I'm like, I don't want a ton of decision-making. I don't want a ton of stop and go. And one of the quotes that Dwight said was there were a lot of decisions they had to make of are we pulling pinball into D&D or are we pulling D&D into pinball? Which one weighs out? Should this be more D&D or more pinball? And they said they always chose pinball. They won at the end of the day. This is a pinball machine. machine. And I think a perfect example of that is the dungeon crawl section, which is kind of a video mode, but it 100% could have been a full video mode. But they're like, no, this needs to still be a pinball game. So you get into the dungeon, you hit a number of shots, then you pick left, right, and then you're either in a room or you're moving more. But every time you make a decision, you have to hit another pinball shot. I'm okay with that. I know you guys have some differing opinions on that but dungeon crawl what's your overall thoughts on dungeon crawl yeah i just i just thought like hit the shot and then like use your flipper buttons to move around and then like be done with it okay to be honest um those were my thoughts um i could see somebody maybe like struggling to hit the shots like over and over again um or like you know you get to a point and that's like i just want to battle so like let's let's get to wherever we're going in this dungeon okay i got some monsters now let's go you know like but i don't want to keep hitting shot over shot at the same thing over and over again to try to do that i guess i guess that was my opinion on it sure um so like i think like a little bit of video mode is okay like you know But sure, I am curious that as of right now. So this is what's unique with the dungeon crawl is this is the thing that's going to reset every Sunday. And what's weird is online. People are like, well, how do you do this if your game is not connected to the Internet? Like it's built into the game itself. The seed, there's a random seed that changes every single Sunday. So this would still happen even if you weren't connected to the Internet. It's built into the game. But the thing about the dungeon crawl, to my, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it really has anything to do with the story. If you're going to do the dungeon crawl, it's just to get stronger, so by fighting guys, or to find the treasure room, and the treasure room is supposed to have more loot, and the loot is how you're going to increase your shield or your attack or your ranged weapon. Well, I think that's how you find some of the trinkets, right? Yeah, but I don't know. It's like a side quest. Think of it like a giant side quest. Yeah. But I don't know if the side quest is necessarily needed. Like, I don't know if you have to do the side quest. Maybe you do. I don't know how much it's needed. But as of right now, once you get into the dungeon crawl... The rules want you to do it, though. The way the game is structured, it wants you to get into the dungeon crawl. Okay. Because keep in mind, it's the two targets, right? Yep. The two stand-ups at the top. That's what lights it. Or if you hit the center Vuck... that spots it. And that's like one of the easiest shots in the entire game. So because one of the easiest shots spots it, that tells me right there from, you know, a story-based purpose or progression purpose of the game, they really want us to experience the dungeon crawl. So when you're in it though, I know you're, you're in a hallway and it's like hit a few shots. Do you want to go left, right, whatever? Well, if you pick a room, it's either going to be a treasure room. So great, you got something or it may be a battle. So now you have to fight something. I don't know yet to get out of it though I think you have to find a stairway so it's like I don't want you could hit a trap too like if you randomly hit a trap I think it automatically ejects you out if you get a trap I think he said there were three ways to get out yeah because I remember hitting a trap and then I was done as long as you're not going to get locked in it that's the one thing that you know true what I'm curious of is will people be avoiding it as in you you can only do when you're not in a mode so it's one of those like oh i got dungeon crawl lit at the vuck but i don't want to do it i want to i'm going to hit the shots around it and try to travel or do a mode or something like that's where i'm curious is how important it is to actually play the do you want me just to say the quiet thing out loud what all three of us are thinking why not we just we just felt like like maybe it just felt too slow at that point right like that's the way i felt when i got into the dungeon all of a sudden I realize I have to hit a shot just to move forward and then I have to hit another shot to move forward again Then another shot to move forward or another shot to make a decision To move somewhere with the action button or the flippers or whatever, right? Okay So it's kind of like if I me from like if i'm thinking of this How to keep somebody engaged that's playing it. It's as soon as i'm in the dungeon I want action nearly immediately. So if I gotta hit one more shot to move that's fine but then something needs to happen besides just walking more to move again, right? Like, there needs to be, like, hopefully, I assume they can do that since the dungeons are going to change, like, whatever's in it and where it's at. But to be fair about all this, I also don't do any dungeon crawls at all on any other games or anything, so I don't know if from a narrative basis that that makes sense or whatever. I just think that maybe the action needs to be pushed a little bit more when you're in there. Because just like you mentioned, Joel, you don't want the feeling of being stuck somewhere. It definitely makes sense. Right. Like for D&D, D&D is absolutely, hey, the rumor is for us to beat this big bad, we need this armor. Well, this armor is in this town. And you go to the town and you do this and they're like, well, that's rumored to be in this dungeon. So now I'm in a dungeon, which is a maze, and we're exploring, we're battling, we're surviving, big bad, boom, we got it, on to the next one. It thematically absolutely makes sense. What I think you're pointing out, though, and I agree with is, personally, the modes are more fun than the dungeon crawl. If I know I have 12 modes, I wouldn't be spending my time playing my 12 modes and my dungeons that are attached to the modes because each phase of the dungeon is different. That's where I want to be playing. So the dungeon crawl itself is a, yeah, it's one of those side quests or those side modes that I'm like, oh, okay, well, I'll play it because I'm here. But I'm ready to be out because I want to go play this. This is more fun. Yeah, you just got to front load the action. That's all it is. Front load the action. That way, maybe if you get through battling something or getting your first trinket, then you can make a decision on where you're going from there, right? Instead of the decision just being taken from you and it's just hitting a shot just to move your character forward, right? Because that's asking a lot of a player to come up and hit four shots, too, before something happens. It really is in all realities. so you know we just haven't been sold yet on the value of doing the dungeon crawl like it's worth maybe if there was that urge of like no i need to keep exploring because i might actually get to whatever i may get this loot i may get this that goes into the that goes into the pin save though too right like if you have the pin save you could play more and i get it like there should be value in doing something but i think in the case of pinball you always want something to be exciting for somebody. You never want something to feel like it's wood chopping, especially if you're doing a narrative progressional system. So it's almost like I've explained this to other people before. I talked about earlier in this podcast, when you think of it from like a marketing standpoint, it's all about hooks, right? How am I going to hook you? So if you go immediately into the dungeon, what's the immediate hook when you're in that dungeon? It's like, okay, I need to go find something, but you're going to have players have a different reason for being in a dungeon. Like me, I just want to cause chaos when I'm in the dungeon. I want to find the monsters and battle them, you know? And then after I battle them, then I want the trinket. I don't want to, like, look and avoid them and then find the trinket. But I know some players, they may think that way. They may not want to battle somebody. They may want to find the trinket. I just want to find the trinket. Yeah, so somebody like Tom may want to find the trinket. I don't want any danger. He's a pacifist. Tom's a pacifist. But you know what I mean? It's like that's where the action's at. So, you know, I don't know. I just think maybe if they brought the action up a little bit closer to the beginning of it, that then it would make sense to feel like, okay, maybe a higher level. Then you have kind of the wood chopping tendencies of a dungeon crawler. Like maybe that's how it works because it just gets more difficult, right? The more levels you go and maybe the more decisions you make, maybe the more difficult the enemies get. But, you know, it's still early though. That's just the first thoughts when we initially played it. I think everybody kind of felt that way that I was talking to various people. I didn't really hear anybody saying, I want to hurry up and get into a dungeon crawl over the modes. I think a lot of people were pleasantly surprised over the modes. Absolutely. I mean, my goal when I was playing was I want to play the mode, I want to beat the mode so I can experience the dungeon in that town. That's where the fun was. And dungeon and dungeon crawl is different, too. They're different. We had to establish that. Yeah. And honestly, I don't, I never, I don't think I ever did gelatinous cube multiball cause I was so focused on modes. I just wanted to keep exploring these modes and the uniqueness and the rules of the modes. But, um, but Tom, why do you hate this game and why haven't you bought it? I don't hate it. Uh, but I, I, I haven't bought one yet. I I've been debating about it though. I mean, definitely going to Stern and checking it out definitely is pushing me more towards getting one. And especially the replay value of it is definitely doing that. I don't know. Well, I know typically what you've said before is you like buying because you bought a Bond Pro. You had bought a Wick Pro. You bought an X-Men Pro. The idea is it's nice having the game in your house so that you can explore it. you can learn it and you can be better prepared for tournaments. Is your, are the tournament wheels already turning? Like how are you? Yeah, for sure. Like I'm already thinking like, so I know I talked about this with Travis. The biggest thing like in tournaments is that left shot setting up your right flipper with the magnet. so like to me it was like going back to t-ball and like you know the coach is putting the ball up on the tee and saying okay tom hit that ball into play and it's like all right and you just hit it like right up that ramp like it was nothing yep and then you go to the major leagues and you're like oh shit this guy's throwing a 90 mile per hour fastball at me you know so i but i do think like like if i was gonna be a td and have this in a high level tournament there's a there's a scoop at that shot that shoots the ball up uh i would probably uh hopefully in the code try to weaken it so like that it could not go up to that flipper and make people actually hit the shots to go oh we did that upper flipper so the far far left shot the far far left kind of lower shot medieval danis it would be the catapult shot that shot which fismo's like store it's the easiest side shot in the history of pinball i promise you it's really easy to hit it's the easiest side shot in the history of pinball it's like the the easiest spell out shot so like i could see like the extremely high level players like escher and z mac and jason zahler and yada yada yada just just destroying that and just you know right flipper hit that boom up to the upper flipper so it will be absolutely hilarious at expo this year it will be hilarious like we're talking this will be a two-hour game at least at least for those guys yeah no doubt you're saying unless it's tweaked because honestly they won't tweak it at expo that's what's going to be hilarious Is that shield going to be there? You don't know that. Oh, they won't. I don't think they will. And I don't know. Maybe there's something Dwight's planning in the code. I, you know, for tournament players, I don't know. Well, you know, I don't know those things, but the the other thing. OK, so what I was going to say is that upper flipper, you can feed it by hitting that shot, which spits the ball directly up to that. You can hit the left orbit, which will feed it fast. And that's sometimes the bet. Yeah, that's yeah. That shot's tough. Yeah, because the gelatinous cube blocks your view. And so if the magnet doesn't catch it, you're like... It's fast. Yeah, you're not going to find that shot. It's like maybe... I mean, I can't even give a percentage. I just know it's probably the most difficult shot in the game by far. The most difficult combo. So left orbit, top or flipper. It kind of reminds me of Avatar in that way, right? Where the ball just shows up all the time. It's super fast when there's no magnet. It is. Yeah. And there's also a little horseshoe shot up there, upper right, where you can drop the ball on the flipper and shoot it. But I've noticed the magnet also grabs that there, too. Yeah, the magnet still slows it down. The magnet's used a lot. Which is fine. Right, right. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying it's a bad thing maybe for high-level competition. Yeah, I don't think that this game is meant for tournaments or high-level tournaments. I think it's for launch parties and local stuff and strikes. And that's totally cool. And I hope that the direction they take this pin isn't worried about too much about all that stuff, right? Because there's plenty of pins out there. And I think having something that's a little bit different, that's more story-based, is perfectly fine. So that's what I would like to see. I agree. And the only other shot which we haven't mentioned yet, which I'm a little concerned about, is the captive ball. The captive ball is considered the critical hit ball. You don't have to be concerned. I know what you're going to say. But as of right now, in the code, it will give you any shot. It will give you a valuable shot. So if there's one bad guy out there and he's on the left orbit and you can't hit it for whatever reason, you can just hit the captive ball and it will spot it. And it's constant. It's a constant thing. So all you got to do is make it not constant. That's what I'm saying. I feel like it's – It's fine. It's fixable, Joel. they told us they did tell us that this was like the ces code true and it was at 0.78 so they have to change it yes they say the game was a lot easier so i think it was either dwight or elizabeth i remember dwight saying right right right theoretically you could beat an entire mode by just bashing the captain right there's no way that they can't they can't have that But I know you can, though, because think about it. If it's really that exploitable, why did nobody else figure that out during media day, during the dealer day? Nobody else figured that out, you know. And then a large portion of that is because people don't generally look for that. They just don't. I mean, I know we are because we're aware of it and we think of, OK, how can I finish this? Like we're thinking in terms of a min max point of view. Right. How can I do this as efficiently as possible? Right. So in a tournament, of course, you know, send it to comp mode. Boom. Just one hit. That's it. Or you have to do something to qualify it for something that's in default. I don't think people are going to notice it or even really care all that much because otherwise somebody would have picked up on that. Right. There's not there's nothing out there that tells you that's that's the way it's going to work. It's not on the artwork. It's not on any. Well, the insert right now, even the insert isn't there's an insert in front of it and it's not lit all the time. But I tested it. Like even if the insert's off, you can still hit it and it spots a shot. So I assume in the code, in my opinion, it would be a spot a shot once per mode or there's a cool off period to it. Like you can spot a shot, but then you have to hit five other shots before it's lit again. And think of it this way, too. It's like what shot would you really want to spot while you do that? Like a side loop, a side ramp? Yeah. You know, I just think it's not going to be that big of a deal overall because otherwise other people would have caught up onto it. So there's just I mean, there's some silly nuances in it, like those face facts like that is one of them. I think, you know, for people that see it or can't unsee it. I mean, if you're playing the premium or L.E., you're essentially lifting up a scoop to be in front of a scoop. Right. It's like scoop section is what you're having. You're going to hit the buck in the very back in order to raise up a scoop in front of it. So, you know, that's I mean, that's certainly a choice to kind of turn a stern into a P3 nearly. Right. With that coming up. But wow. But I mean, Ralph even mentioned, though, he was like he didn't feel like that added enough onto the game for him, which I get. That's probably like out of the three main mechs in the game. That's probably the most forgettable part. Right. The gelatinous cube. Pretty cool with the way the magnet is. you know obviously the dragon moves around and that just kind of makes the little dungeon that pops up it's just kind of like i don't know i think it'll be an afterthought for a lot of people but that just goes to show you that's why the pro will be good value for people that see that as well because they're not gonna you're still shooting the same exact shot right you're still getting basically the same exact thing out of it except people may enjoy hitting the spinner more than just a scoop that pops up because you still have a spinner in the back you know so it's opto spinner i agree if they would have made the dragon head almost like the t-rex head in jurassic park where it was just the sculpt no movement no interaction but the fact that they allowed it to still be up and down like they really in my opinion as a buyer of pinball i love that they're making like i thought x-men i think x-men pro was loaded i'm glad that this looks loaded i'm all for them having pros that are awesome um as a distributor maybe it makes it harder to sell the premiums and le's but it's just i to me i i love it in a way because i you compare it to Brian Eddy's last game in my opinion venom pro should have never been made like that game they stripped out everything about that game like yeah there was no change it was all just software so that should have just been a premium le game or something they i don't know they could have done something i don't know but i'm glad i feel like it's the exact opposite where the pros are awesome. And it's okay if the pros sell well. I mean, I'll be up front. Like we're, I think we're pretty much sold out of our LEs. So it's not like I'm Win Schilling this. Like the LE looks good in person. People thoroughly enjoy it. And yeah, it's selling very well. But I think too, like Stern, by putting the mechs the way that they did, there's going to be lots of people that will play this pro on location and be like, oh yeah, this is a fun experience too. And really the only thing, Like the two things that you will be missing. I don't think people will really notice the difference between six ball or eight ball. It's just so many balls going around. Yeah. Right. Eventually, like, you know, we reached our ball threshold of like noticing anything else. Right. Yeah. But I think with people noticing the dragon head moving and blocking some shots like the loop. Right. And the ramp. Yeah. That, for me, that didn't really feel like an experience as much as kind of like an annoyance because I had to look around it to see if that shot was lit. And this is when the ball was staged on the magnet. Now, I don't know if that's a software thing or if that's the way it's always going to be, but I could see some people not liking that. Now, what I did like about the Dragon is that, of course, it moved up and down, but I didn't mind it blocking the right orbit shot. I thought that was pretty cool that you could hit the right orbit, still hit the Dragon. So I think a lot of people like that. But again, you know, when you look at it, the pro could be pretty good value because the cube's the same. The dragon still articulates up and down. You can still bash it. You can still hit it. And you still shoot it up the middle into a Vuk anyways, into a spinner. And I think that's like if that shot didn't have the spinner to it. Yeah. Yeah. There would be a lot of people like what is going on. But having the spinner in front of it, I think that that that adds to that shot a little bit. So I think looking at the way the end consumer would look at this, I think they'd be fine with it. I'm loving it. I'm loving it as a consumer that the pros are loaded like this. But, yeah, but unfortunately, I am out of time now. I need to go. We did it, Tom. We went so long that Joel has to go. No, I'm getting messages from my wife that's saying she's got something she has to do within 30 minutes. Hey, cut your nuts off. Oh, wow. All right. All right. Okay. Let's plug it up. Let's plug it up. Plug away, Tom. All right. When you're not finding me here on Triple Drain, you can find me on my other stuff, which is Fox Cities Pinball. Yes. We do a lot of tournament stuff and more tournament stuff. And you do it very well. Thank you, Tom. Thank you. Travis, plug away, man. Yeah, you can find me right here on Triple Drain Pinball Podcast. You could also find me over on my other job, which pays a little bit more than Triple Drain, thankfully, because Joel takes all of our money, just like we talked about earlier. It's not true. It's not true. It's not true. It's not true. We took it to Vegas. We bet on black. It's fine. But yeah, I'm also with the pinball company. You can find me on YouTube. I do like tutorials, talk about pinball and all that. I don't care if you buy from us or what. I just enjoy making content, bringing value to the community, and making pinball seem a little less complex and a little more fun. So that's my spiel. On to you, Joel, and your cool beard. Yeah. And I'm Joel. I do the Flip N Out Pinball stream on YouTube every Wednesday night with my brother, as well as this podcast. Feel free to check out our stuff. We have some random stuff on what is it? Zazzle? Zazzle. Our main merch is on Zizzle. Zazzle. Our main merch is on Silver Ball Swag. Check that out. Twippies are coming up. If you want to give us a vote, go for it. You can vote for Fox City, Pinball Company, Flip N Out Pinball, all the stuff. Triple Drain. Travis loves votes. He loves them so much. Don't bother voting for anything I'm on except for this. That's fine. Other than that, I don't care. That's fair. And, yeah, thanks for all the people on Patreon that support us. That's fantastic. And we'll answer everybody's questions on the next one because we totally ran out of time. I know. So we do have your questions. It's all Joe's fault. It always is. Yes. So with that, Tom, you have the last words. Have a good one.