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Episode 7 - Scott Danesi / New Pinball Releases

Nudgecast·podcast_episode·1h 38m·held·Mar 12, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Nudgecast interviews Scott Danesi on music/design philosophy while discussing upcoming pinball releases and licensing rumors.

Summary

Nudgecast 7 features hosts Ian Jacoby (Doc Monday) and Shane Told discussing new pinball releases and upcoming games. The episode includes an extensive interview with Scott Danesi, the designer behind Total Nuclear Annihilation, Rick and Morty, and Final Resistance, covering his musical background and influence on his pinball design work. Key discussion points include upcoming games like Portal (P3), Evil Dead, Cuphead (American Pinball), and speculation about a potential King Kong game based on licensing rumors.

Key Claims

  • Portal is coming out for P3 and will be the best P3 game to date

    medium confidence · Ian Jacoby discussing Portal's upcoming release, noting excitement about Multimorphic's latest project and how it could be a breakout title for the platform

  • Evil Dead is already in circulation and looks visually impressive in person

    high confidence · Ian Jacoby has played Evil Dead and vouches for its in-person aesthetics, confirmed Shane hasn't played it yet but is excited about it

  • Cuphead (American Pinball) is the best game the company has ever produced

    medium confidence · Ian Jacoby claims insider knowledge from American Pinball employees about Cuphead being exceptional, though he acknowledges he cannot repeat specific details

  • King Kong is rumored as the next Stern game based on licensing keyword scraping

    medium confidence · Jason Knapp (Knapp Arcade) reportedly scraped internet licensing data and found both King Kong and Mystery of Skull Island keywords, but Ian Jacoby cautions this isn't confirmed

  • Evil Dead auto-plunger button mechanism sometimes loses the ball even with ball save active

    high confidence · Ian Jacoby's detailed gameplay experience with Evil Dead, noting issues with bounce-backs and ball saves on stand-up targets

  • Barrels of Fun has a mystery new game that might premiere at TPF but is uncertain

    medium confidence · Ian Jacoby mentions Barrels of Fun's unannounced game and that he signed an NDA preventing disclosure; appearance at TPF is not guaranteed

  • Godzilla's popularity as a pinball game exceeds the IP's broader cultural relevance

    medium confidence · Ian and Shane discuss how Godzilla pinball has elevated the IP's popularity beyond its standalone cultural footprint

  • Some manufacturers intentionally leak game information as marketing strategy

    medium confidence · Ian Jacoby speculates that leaks are sometimes deliberate marketing techniques, giving example of Chris Kularis asking about Barrels of Fun game

Notable Quotes

  • “I really think that a lot of these leaks are marketing techniques.”

    Ian Jacoby @ ~1:15:00 — Reveals insider perspective on industry leak strategy and suggests intentional information seeding by manufacturers

  • “Portal is a really great theme for them because I think P3s themselves look sort of science fiction-y and weird.”

    Ian Jacoby @ ~1:05:00 — Articulates design philosophy behind Portal/P3 compatibility and explains why some themes work better on modular platforms

  • “I think that that it's worked more that direction the other way, you know... like the game is so good that it makes the IP cooler.”

    Shane Told @ ~1:18:00 — Discusses how Godzilla pinball elevated the Godzilla IP's cultural status, inverting typical IP-to-game influence

  • “I would love for American to have a hit. I think that would be sick. I would love for Ryan to have a hit. I think he deserves it.”

    Ian Jacoby @ ~1:30:00 — Shows support for American Pinball leadership and indicates Cuphead is seen as potential turnaround game for troubled company

  • “What are we, like seven episodes in? I feel like we're doing a good job.”

    Shane Told @ ~1:35:00 — Self-assessment of Nudgecast's production quality and success milestone, used as pitch to attract sponsors

  • “The Prodigy, like, that's the number one. Like, someone just said, Scott, what's your favorite band? I just be like, it's the Prodigy, like, hands down.”

    Scott Danesi @ ~1:50:00 — Reveals Scott's primary musical influence, which shapes understanding of his design philosophy and soundtrack approach

  • “People think of that, people know how to do that before they know how to use the flippers. So like for me, I'm like, what are we doing here?”

    Ian Jacoby @ ~58:00 — Critiques Spooky's auto-plunger button design choice, arguing manual plunger is more fundamental to pinball experience

Entities

Ian JacobypersonShane ToldpersonScott DanesipersonJason Knappperson[name withheld pending review]personStern PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyMultimorphiccompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Portal confirmed for Multimorphic P3 platform with collaboration from Portal game creators; described as potential breakout title for P3 ecosystem

    high · Ian Jacoby and Shane Told discuss Portal's upcoming P3 release with detailed knowledge of theme/IP collaboration; Ian expects it at TPF

  • ?

    machine_intel: King Kong identified as likely next Stern game based on internet licensing keyword scraping by Knapp Arcade; also Mystery of Skull Island as alternative

    medium · Jason Knapp discovered licensing keywords; Ian estimates 85% confidence it's King Kong but cautions against treating as confirmed

  • ?

    product_concern: Evil Dead auto-plunger button loses ball frequently despite active ball save; bounce patterns from stand-up targets are inconsistent; manual plunger alternative requested

    high · Ian Jacoby detailed personal gameplay experience; describes specific scenario where ball bounces out right outlane after auto-plunge, gets one save, then loses again

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball community shows strong preference for licensed IP over original themes; notable exceptions (Total Nuclear Annihilation, Final Resistance) prove rules rather than break them

    medium · Ian and Shane discuss manufacturer claims that community doesn't like original themes; they debate relative merits of licensed vs. original designs

  • $

    market_signal: European pinball venues charge 2 Euros per game (higher than US rates); venues offer both per-game and continuous-play pricing models to accommodate casual vs. dedicated players

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.289

0:00
Need a pinball machine? Another pinball machine? Maybe some fat accessories like a topper or a shooter rod? Yes, you do. Hit up Jeff over at Mad Pinball for the best products and service and use our promo code Nudgecast and get a free exclusive t-shirt when you buy any game. And you also get free shipping on any new in box Stern. So many great games are out right now. Go pick one up. Hit up Jeff at madpinball.com and don't forget to subscribe to Mad Pinball. Don't forget to tell them we sent you. Hey everybody, you're listening to Nudgecast, the official podcast of Nudge Magazine. That intro music you're listening to right now is the song Daria by Toro E. Moi and Kenny As always, I'm Ian Jacoby aka Doc Monday, the editor-in-chief and publisher of Nudge Magazine. With me is my co-host Shane Told of the band Silverstein and the Lead Singer Syndrome Podcast. Hey Shane, how's it going? Hey, yeah, that's me. Dude, I'm great, man. I'm in Munich, Germany at the moment. Yeah, I'm about to hit the beer gardens. It's a beautiful day outside and yeah, loving life. But I'm ready to come back. I know we've had some organization issues with our massive time difference, but we're getting it done. We're rolling out this podcast. It's coming to you. I think we've done great. And I've been surprised at how just like chipper and with it you are. You are a true professional because I would say like time difference, playing shows, like of the two of us, I'm definitely the diva on this podcast. Wouldn't you say? Uh, yeah, sort of, but you know, it's okay. One of us has to be. I'm a temperamental artist and we're always sort of like, okay, like we'll make sure he's got his iced coffee. You know, he's got everything he needs. He can, he can start off talking about his weird little S&M thing if he has to. Yes, but whether that's going to be in the podcast or not, uh, maybe we'll save it for the Patreon. I don't know. Dude, we should save it for the Patreon. Also, it is thematically consistent with you being in Germany, though. I know all those people are a bunch of freaks. Have you got to play any pinball while you're over there? A little bit. It's interesting, you know, a lot of the countries, they'll have kind of like one really big spot, and it's often called like the Country Pinball Museum. Like Dutch Pinball Museum is, you know, a pretty famous one. I think it did that when the Twippy for Best International Location, I think it did. Is Rotterdam. Is that where that is? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And like I was in Amsterdam, so it's too far away. And, you know, a lot of times you don't have the volume that you do in the US where like you're in a major city. Chances are there's an arcade bar with like 20 machines or something like close to you. It's not as prevalent in Europe. Key rack, Kentucky freshmenman, Oh, cool. So that was really interesting. So like the displays, I was like trying to remember, because I'm from Canada, like French class. Yeah, yeah. You know, like what these words mean and stuff. So playing games in French. And it was almost all classics too, or like, well, not classics, like 90s games. So you know, a lot of Bally Williams stuff. So playing those games that I've played a million times, but now all of a sudden they're in French was kind of a trip. That's sick. I also took French in school. So I think all I really remember is ou est le sel de bain. How's that? That's where's the bathroom? Yeah, that is where's yeah, where's the can? In the callouts for like, Attack from Mars, they're not like Zootalor or anything? Well, I found the callouts were never in another language. It was just sure, sure. And the playfield wasn't it was just the like the DMD display. You know, coming up would be would be in for in French. I have to say there aren't any that they did call it in other languages. I don't know. But that's all I found. If we're thinking about it, Godzilla is the only one that comes to mind offhand that you can pick, you know, English or Japanese as you drop in. Dude, it's funny that we're actually talking about this. I wasn't even thinking about it. I can reveal this right now, actually. We're having like a world pinball issue for issue five for Nudge. So we're covering kind of some of the stuff we're talking about. I'm looking at the list right now of like the sub features that we're doing. And so we have Copenhagen. Yeah, we have Mexico City. We have someone there talking about the scene there. We just like have a normal like travel piece. We have a Houston piece. When you're over there, what's the coin drop situation like? Like, are you dropping coins in? Is it cards? What are they doing over there? Yeah, a lot of times it's Euro coins. I played a little bit in the UK. It was pounds, like straight in the game. So, you know, typical. There was a place I tried to go to in Amsterdam. I walked in and they wanted two Euros a game. Oh, wow. To play like a Godzilla Pro and I was like, eh, that's a little hefty. Do you think that's because it costs so much to get them over there or just that's what it is? local

  • European pinball venues use different pricing models (by-game vs. continuous card play)

    high confidence · Shane Told describes Amsterdam venue charging 2 Euros per game and mentions UK venues using pound coins directly in machines

  • Original theme pinball games struggle in modern market compared to licensed IP

    medium confidence · Ian and Shane discuss general market preference for licensed IP over original themes, though acknowledge exceptions like Total Nuclear Annihilation

    • “I haven't talked a ton with the P3 people. It doesn't seem like they're interested in doing... it seems like the P3 is where they've put everything, right?”

    Ian Jacoby @ ~1:10:00 — Suggests Multimorphic has committed entirely to P3 platform without plans for traditional cabinet line

    American Pinball
    company
    Barrels of Funcompany
    Portalgame
    Evil Deadgame
    Cupheadgame
    King Konggame
    Total Nuclear Annihilationgame
    Rick and Mortygame
    Final Resistancegame
    Godzillagame
    Nudge Magazineorganization
    Knapp Arcadeorganization
    The Prodigyorganization
    TPFevent
    MGCevent

    high · Shane Told describes Amsterdam venue experience with 2 Euro per-game pricing; notes appeal of flexible pricing model for players with varying commitment levels

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball in financial difficulty; Cuphead staff working 'basically free' to deliver quality game; company depends on Cuphead's success for viability

    medium · Ian Jacoby states 'I know American pinball needs money' and references staff working without adequate compensation; hopes Cuphead will be turnaround hit

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Industry debate over manual plungers vs. auto-plunger buttons; manual plunger is foundational pinball mechanic that players learn before flipper control

    medium · Ian Jacoby argues strongly against auto-plungers, noting manual plunger is culturally primary mechanic; Spooky continues using buttons despite community preference

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Barrels of Fun has unannounced game; Ian Jacoby bound by NDA; appearance at TPF is uncertain but would be major industry moment

    medium · Ian mentions signing Barrels of Fun NDA and Chris Kularis attempting to get leaks; game existence confirmed but details completely sealed

  • ?

    content_signal: Nudgecast seeking sponsors after 7 episodes; hosts claim well-produced show with strong email list reach to pinball consumer base

    high · Ian and Shane explicitly open pitch for manufacturers, mod makers, clothing companies to sponsor show; mention email list and listener statistics

  • ?

    industry_signal: Some manufacturers deliberately leak game information to build anticipation rather than suppress rumors

    low · Ian Jacoby speculates that leaks are intentional marketing; notes timing of releases and suggests manufacturers strategically choose who to tell

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Portal expected to be make-or-break title for P3 platform; if successful, could establish Multimorphic as sustainable alternative to traditional cabinets

    medium · Ian states 'this game will go a long way in kind of deciding where they're going to be' and compares Portal to previous P3 games' market reception

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Godzilla IP popularity elevated by quality of pinball game; game success can reverse typical IP-to-game influence dynamic

    medium · Shane observes Godzilla game popularity exceeds baseline IP appeal; both discuss how game quality can make IP cooler to general audience

    • 6:23
    I'm a fan of Pinball. I've been playing it for a while. I don't necessarily want to play. I pay a huge amount of money. But then other times, you know, it is of good value for people to have that. So it's kind of cool they had both options. I don't know if I've ever actually seen before. No, that is super cool and just useful. Like you said, it's like, okay, I want to play a game. You know what I mean? I want to play two games or something like that. Because I will have days like that. I'll have days too where I come in and I'm just straight up, I realize I'm not feeling it I'm just like, you know, I'm fighting myself kind of in my own head. So I, I love that as a, as an option. It's really funny actually at my local spot at Reboot, one of the bartenders, he'll say, he'll be like, I know if you're having a good day or a bad day. Like based on how much of the Diet Coke is left when you come back, when I like give my glass back, it's like, oh, he played for like two seconds. Like he stay out of his way. Usually I just go for a walk then or something, but, um, yeah, I, that actually is, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a great way to That makes me think you you haven't really been able to play any of your old favorites So I'm sure you're you're maybe missing some stuff Is there any of you like your lineup that you're like man? I can't wait to kind of get home and let me tell you man I am missing pinball a little bit so much so that I download the Williams pinball app on my phone
    7:42
    And I didn't you know, I never really realized that it existed I'd heard people talk about her and I just kind of wrote it off It's actually a lot better than I thought it was. Oh, really? Hey, I'm here. It's actually not that bad. Nice. What games do they have? It's no... Well, so how it works is it starts with Attack from Mars, but they have pretty much all of them. You just have to like either pay to unlock them or like fucking chop wood in Attack from Mars to like get enough coins or whatever shit to like unlock other... They call them tables, which also bothers me, but we won't get into that. You can say table. on TV with todos los He has made the most expensive tackline for PARABLE's GraphicsPoint Informationange. Name of estoic art from the exhibition of the day Music by Diurm luggage you
    9:34
    You This is like, yeah, people will make, you know, recreations of of older games. So I'm assuming they're using one of those softwares to just kind of like, build, build that real quick. And they have the nice part for them is they already have all the assets, right? So they have all the art assets, they have all the music stuff and everything, you know, good to go. So I bet I'm guessing is like, once you kind of have the engine that you're using, and you're able to build those out, like it actually probably isn't super labor intensive. Timcoming успikeya I know. It's always movies, it's always stuff like that. And I think actually this is great. If you guys haven't listened to the Wedgehead Podcast, that's another really great pinball podcast that happens. Allen and his buddies out in Portland, but they actually just had an episode about original themes and sort of the difference and how we see manufacturers a lot these days say like, oh, you guys don't like original themes, but the original themes channel www. streamStream necessites.com We're getting into the original theme and we've talked about this, Shane. I know you've talked about it because you're like, you have a lot of artist friends and maybe the money's not there, but you got to find somebody because the original themes these days are not, they're not hitting for me. I don't know about you, but yeah. But you know, and this isn't segueing to our guest quite yet, but I mean, total nuclear annihilation is a pretty good original theme and nobody seems to ever like talk shit on it or like... If you want to own that game because it's an original theme, you know, and you know, even Final Resistance is pretty cool too. Like, you know, maybe Scott is that is the only guy that can do it. But, you know, I know, I know what you mean. But it's it is funny like, you know, when you're playing Roadshow or like Fishtails or something and it's like, yeah, these games are silly, you know? Yeah, it's something that's something about them. They just work or whitewater like come on, but but they're great. And they It's probably nostalgia is factoring into that one for sure. Absolutely. And you're going to be at TPF. I will be, yes. I'm going to be at MGC. So yeah, what are you excited about that could potentially premiere at TPF? Is there anything you're excited about? I mean, if the Barrels of Fun game is going to make an appearance, that would be really special. That would take the pinball world by storm because still nobody knows what it is. You might know what it is, but you signed an NDA, I know. But you haven't told me. I haven't. Full disclosure, you have not told me. Even if you do know or you can speculate, that would be really cool. And I know they're saying it seems like it's maybe an outside chance. It doesn't seem like it's a for sure thing. So that's a really, really intriguing one. Yeah, for sure. I'm excited to play Evil Dead because I haven't played it yet. I know it's been around but that game looks awesome. I think you're going to love it, dude. I think it just fits. Aesthetics-wise, I know some of the other games that you own. I think it looks really... I'm just saying that when you see it in person, it looks beautiful. I think I shot good pictures. We've seen good video of it but in person, it truly is pretty awesome. That was great. That was exciting. I couldn't wait for it. Thank you. Thank you for dividing Presidingformendas eta Clear SnyanfurrWoman Bangligher ceph fellas along with my bater dwarfs complementaritybest, moonlight Vegas Lastrot. GoTrunkos.com. Subtitles by the Amara.org community
    14:37
    Kevin Hartman, I've been doing this for like six seconds after I pressed the button. You know, it takes so long. I'm like, just give me a manual plunger. That's like the fun part. When people, when you think about pinball, that's literally, people think of that, people know how to do that before they know how to use the flippers. So like for me, I'm like, what are we doing here? So anyway, Spooky insists, and that's fine, you know, Spooky, Luke and Bug go off. They insist on using the pinball. in the evil that has a button that's fine but the the way in which the but is used is so it right here in a shot you're basically in a shotgun barrel and when you press the button the ball is like launched on the shotgun barrel towards these two targets on the side sort of like uh... terminator something like that you know i'm the the problem with it is you all the ball save is quite short And you, a lot of times, at least in the copy I was playing, which was a great version, a lot of times it would bounce out an out lane on the right side then, like off a plunge, and then you get one shot at the redo, it'll auto plunge it again, and sometimes I would lose it again, you know? So I'm like, bro, if I could short plunge this shit, if I could do anything to like not have, and I get it, like part of the game's like, okay, well you gotta nudge it off, you know, those targets. But those are stand-up targets, so it's sort of an inconsistent bounce back, you know? And so that is so funny, we're talking about what we're excited about. But this is the one thing, though, that I'm like, spooky, like, just consider it. Like, you know, normal plungers are good. Yeah, there's a normal plunger on TNA. I don't know, but I can't recall their earlier games, what they did, but I know... Scooby has a button, yeah. Most of them are buttons. Yeah, yeah, no, I know because yeah, sometimes like, you know, it depends on where you're at in the game, what you want to do. You want to short plunge and you need, there's a shot you need to make. Do you, you know, do you need to, do you need a skill shot? Do you need to want to just plunge it all the way around for some reason? Like I totally get that strategy and um, but I'm not, I'm not a total button hater, but I get why people are. Sure. Yeah. I mean, it's a strong take for me, but I truly just, I really don't like them. One thing that I am excited about. I'm wondering if you are because I think you're gonna be the first person to see this in person portal Portals gonna come out for p3, dude. Oh Yeah, right. That's a big thing right isn't it? Have you ever have you played the portal games? No, no, how there's I don't know There's about them at all. It's it's from the half-life universe And so like okay it's it's this gun that like basically you can shoot it like you shoot it on a ceiling and скиptodle simulator.net, assexpan
    18:22
    And I'm pretty sure he did the portal music and if that's the case sick This is gonna be the best p3 game that that exists So like I'm so jealous that you're gonna be I'm hoping that they have one at MGC I kind of feel like they won't but um, yeah, the portal would be the one for me that I'm really excited to see last year TPF
    18:46
    Multimorphic had a pretty big section. They actually had a lot of games there time. This is the one that really puts them over the top and everyone's like, I got to own this thing. I think that that's what we're waiting for to see if that can happen.
    19:23
    Portal is a really great theme for them because I think P3s themselves look sort of science fiction-y and weird. Like Princess Bride as a theme doesn't really land for me on the P3, I know that everyone liked the Cliffs of Insanity mech and all that, but I don't know, it just felt— Right, that seems like a game that honestly should feel a little more World UnderGlass with like a bunch of stuff inside of it, like kind of fairytale-y. So that didn't quite work as well for me, but something like this, like Final Resistance on P3 is like, I love that game. Exactly. It makes perfect sense. And this one's going to be like that. Like this one's going to be like, you know, sci-fi, funny, like there's humor to it. There's, yeah, I'm super excited. And like if they're working with the people from Portal, like does that mean we could get a Half Life Pinball machine? That would be fucking awesome. I love Half Life. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. I do wonder if, you know, you know, like there's Dutch Pinball and there's Dutch Pinball X, right? Uh. Could there be a separate company that makes, you know, traditional games? I wonder if there's room for that because if If Princess Bride was a traditional machine, you know, and I don't know why I kind of think of it like Labyrinth, maybe just because they're both movies of a similar era. I think it would be a slam dunk. I think it would have. Yeah. Yeah, I think that there was a lot of apprehension from the pinball community for buying a P3 with that theme, as opposed to if you were just buying that theme, which is interesting because it also is an investment, right? I mean, they're quite expensive. I'm a fan of the P3. It'll be interesting to see. I haven't talked a ton with the P3 people. It doesn't seem like they're interested in doing, you know, like it seems like the P3 is where they've put everything, right? So I think, so it'll be, I don't know what the next five years for P3 looks like, but yeah, I think this game will go a long way in kind of deciding where they're going to be. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, discussing some of the other games that are coming out this year, there's been some ***ắnяни questioned followed by algunos typing ***A-'A' in 않는,mate. ***Yatjha chulators disrespect had becki fawn as you aretil his twice as Vid equal did ye ** appealed to our viewers** So you're referencing a Knapp Arcade post, right? Where he, uh, so he does something I think he does. Are you giving me the finger right now? No, no, I was, uh, we're, we're referencing a Knapp Arcade post. Uh, fuck you too, man. Yeah, like right the week after I officially lost, uh, to, to Knapp Arcade. So that's why I'm flipping you up. That was just, sorry Jason, I was just clearing some crust out of my eye because I'm a disgusting human being. It's actually gross in that way. No, so Knapp Arcade wrote this article, right? They do something, Jason Knapp does, he's a really smart guy. He will basically, there's a way in which you can kind of scrape the internet for keyword licensing. And so he saw both, I think King Kong and like the Mystery of Skull Island And that's where these rumors are really stemming from. And while yes, that could be, that could be for this game, and most likely it is, but I would caution people by saying like this is slam dunk the title because it doesn't mean that. And there have been plenty of instances I can't like bring them up off the top of my We PrintingFują Card 하니까.com
    23:54
    I not I not either but I agree with you Like it seems to me that that what you would have those ducks in a row like well before unless they try to wait until the last kind of possible minute so that the rumor doesn start earlier You know, like maybe they figure the rumors are already so strong at this point. I think there's almost anticipation more than if nobody knew anything about this, right? Well, that's the thing is I really think that a lot of these leaks are marketing techniques. It's funny actually, so you brought up before that I had to sign the Barrels of Fun NDA and of course who comes crawling into my DMs but one Chris Kularis, Kaneda, to ask about I'm going to be the one that rattles the cage. You know, like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not your boy on that. But so I think, I think sometimes that that is true though, that people want stuff to kind of get out there a little bit. Probably depends who they tell that. I probably, when they talk to me, they're like, this guy's definitely going to leak I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get to the end of this in about two seconds, but we'll see with King Kong. I don't know. Like, I think probably you're right. For me, it's like 85% it's going to be King Kong. I'm still holding out that it could be. Maybe it's because King Kong doesn't really do it for me as a theme. But you know what? Neither. Well, I'm trying to think of a game that where the theme doesn't really do it for me that I like it because I was about to say Rush, but then I was like, wow, I really hate Rush, actually. So what's like? I'm not a fan of the game or the band, so... Yeah, exactly. Well, Godzilla, like, I'm more of a fan of Godzilla than King Kong, but I would say, like, the popularity for Godzilla the Pinball Machine much outpaces, I would say, like, Godzilla as a popular thing just, like, in our everyday lives, probably. I would say so. Yeah. I would say so, yeah. It's almost become a thing people are more into because the game is so good. I think that that it's worked more that direction the other way, you know, dude, like the shadow or something. I like obviously Godzilla is cooler than the shadow, but 100% it's like the game is so good that it makes the IP cooler. I did want to bring up. We have one more game. I mean, there's a lot we could cover, but there's one more that I'm excited about and it's maybe one that you wouldn't immediately think that I'd be hyped on, but Cuphead like Cuphead has to come out. I kind of know some stuff that I can't repeat about employees at American Pinball right now, but I know they are still working their asses off for, I'm not going to say free, but basically free to like do some good stuff with that game. And I just know from people who have seen it, from people who have played it, that it is the vibious, coolest game that American Pinball has ever put out for sure. What can ice, chordine APX, OOC, R sometimes Systematic Translated by David Van Es, Knapp Arcade. ≪ dens hagay trick oranges assessing 장난usementresentiation responsibilities ViktEX tą travel foi. Tu rope you per gon rozanne- Beibe, c defense detente- trblick taht nomine. Bailey, Reno, Occupact
    28:39
    lancene, in sobriety zur da ciotieぉ There he partir, trkick Entengled Dennk 는 To переж linking keab I've been watching these games for 10 years. But yeah, it's just, we'll see. I would love for American to have a hit. I think that would be sick. I would love for Ryan to have a hit. I think he deserves it. I think he's such a good guy in pinball. And yeah, I'm rooting for that game. So yeah, we will see. Me too. But I know American pinball needs money. And in that way, we are the same, right, Shane? We are looking for advertisers, y'all. We are. You know, I think we got to the point where we've kind of proven ourselves. What are we, like seven episodes in? Oh, yeah. I feel like we're doing a good job. You know, we've had some great guests and it's a well-produced show, if I do say so myself. Absolutely. We figured we'd open the floor to anyone in the pinball industry that maybe wants to come on board, be a sponsor, run some ads, you know, whatever you're into, whether you are a pinball manufacturer or a mod maker or a clothing person, whatever. Not enough clothing companies in pinball if you ask me, actually. Agreed. Maybe I gotta start one. Hit us up, nudgepinballmagazine at gmail.com. I'm a fan of the pinball podcast. I can give you statistics both on the podcast and on our email list side of things. We have a quite large email list that goes out to all kinds of great pinball folks who love to buy stuff. It might not be large, but it's a good size. No complaints. We never had any complaints on it. It is large. I'm going to say large. I worked my ass off on that email list, buddy boy. So come on over and be part of the Nudge team. We would love to have you. David Van Es, Knapp Arcade.
    31:10
    and you too, it Ü you, you guys! Subtitles by the Amara.org community We're going to get a tritone in there. That's going to be really creepy. So anyway, speaking of musicians, we have one of my favorite musicians, one of my favorite pinball people coming up after this break. Get ready, y'all, for Scott Denisi. Our next guest is the multidisciplinary genius behind such pinball hits as Total Nuclear Nuclear Annihilation, Rick and Morty, and the extremely fricking cool Final Resistance for the P3. This is the first time I considered how cool the mix of video games and pinball could be. He's also a successful musician, touring, streaming, and creating music in and outside the pinball community. His record parties have become the stuff of legend. He's also one of the weirdos behind the pinball olympics featured in Nudge 3. They're like if pinball and the tv show Hi, everybody. Hi. Hey, Scott. Nice intro, man. You've done a lot of stuff. I got to get it all in. Dude, I don't even remember half of that stuff. That's normal? That's a life well lived. That would say. Perfect. Yeah. I think so, man. No, thanks. Thanks for doing this. It's great to have you. I'm a big fan, actually. I do own a Total Nuclear Annihilation. So I. Oh, that is awesome. Yeah. I'm a big fan. I love it. It's one of my favorite games. Very cool. You know, I think the thing that I'm most interested in having you on the show, probably because I'm a musician, is kind of your whole musical background, you know, because obviously, like we know about the pinball side of it. But I'm like, you've done so much other stuff, you know, before people knew you from from the games and the soundtracks you've made. So, can we start there? Like, you know, how was it like for you growing up? You know, what were you into? How did music affect, you know, your upbringing? And how has it paved the way to where you are, you know, today? Oh, yeah, that's an excellent question. Actually, you know, what's really interesting about that is that I really don't talk about this very much. So like, people really don't know, like, way back in the day, like, what did I do? You know, like, how did this, like, all kind of start thing? And so that's, that's super interesting.
    34:38
    But starting at the way beginning, obviously I've always been a fan of music. I think most people, most people are and they say that, you know, but I have met some people that you ask them what their favorite band is and they go, I don't know, whatever, you know, whatever. Whatever's on the radio. That hurts my soul. But, you know, I grew up and my dad was very, very into like the hair metal bands and Metallica and like Led Zeppelin and stuff. So he'd always be like playing that stuff like you know the it's the Scorpions were always like jamming out in the living room and
    35:14
    You know so you know I got really into like Metallica and then I started like the 90s started coming around and it was like I Started getting into like filter and some of these other bands that were a little bit more Experimental fun in in terms of like adding some a little bit of like electronic elements to it I'm a fan of the band, but I didn't realize it. Nine Inch Nails might have been one of them. Nine Inch Nails was definitely one of them. And I remember Downward Spiral. That's nuts. I have a funny story about Downward Spiral as well we can get into too. It involves Johnny Cash. So... But all those bands, I started listening to this stuff and then my friend in 1994 or something, he showed me Chemical Brothers album. Oh, nice. I'm like, wait a second. I'm like, this is all, this is all electronic. There's no, there's no guitars. There's no like real drums. This is all fake. Like it's all just computer made stuff. And then like I, and I wasn't saying that in a negative way at all. It was just like, this is intense. I didn't know this existed. Right. That it was possible. Yeah, exactly. Cause there's no internet. Right. I mean, well the internet was really like really, really early. Right. You're not going on there and like going into forums and stuff and learning about all this junk. Right. I'm out skateboarding and crapman. So like it's like, you know, my buddy showed me the CD and I got it on my disc man You know and at the lunch table and I'm listening to this thing and it's like I'm like what the hell It's like black rock and beat song. He's like blowing my mind Yeah, and the chemical brothers were kind of a crossover band to like they were kind of existed in the alternative space But they were way more electronic There was a few of those like the prodigy was another one that kind of existed in there to read I still am very into the Prodigy. Like, that's the number one. Like, someone just said, Scott, what's your favorite band? I just be like, it's the Prodigy, like, hands down. I could see that for you for sure. Were you playing any instruments at that time? Were you playing music too or you were kind of just like consuming music? So the first thing I did when I was in junior high was my parents signed me up to play in band. And they were like, okay, what instrument do you guys want to play? You know how they did that with the kids? They like kind of let them go around and like feel out the instruments and stuff. And I like, I picked up a clarinet and I was like, I can play this, man. Like, so I wanted to play drums, but I was like, my dad's kind of like, ah, don't play drums. I'm like, dude, drums are hard. I'm like, what are you talking about? Your dad didn't want loud ass drums in the house. That's the real story. Dude, you are smart. It's exactly what he didn't want. But there was a huge line for the drums. Like, so it was like every kid wanted to do the drums. So I'm like, okay, fine, I'm going to go do something else. So I picked up a clarinet and I was able to play that thing. Like, and I was like, I kind of like got it. And I played that for about like a couple years. And then, you know, as kids do, you get bored of that and you're like, I'm not, I'm not doing this anymore. And I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm going to do the drum. So I'm like, okay, fine. I'm going to go do something else. So I picked up a clarinet and I was able to play that thing. Like, and I was like, I kind of like got it. And I played that for about like a couple of years. And then, you know, as kids do, you get bored of that and you're like, I'm not, I'm not doing this anymore. It's also hard to play understand man on the clarinet too. You know, it's like not the coolest instrument.
    39:03
    You had that sort of base level knowledge then of kind of like what, you know, like a time signature, that kind of stuff. This is the first time that music is like really affecting you on like a super emotional and Correct. Yeah. Well it gets even it gets even more emotional and crazy so after the clarinet thing was done I I joined up with the choir in junior high right and in junior high I was like it was interesting because I was this like smaller kid right I was shorter than everybody I looked younger than everybody just Davidy Van Es A
    40:39
    I don't know how many people are going to know kind of where that is, but it's Northern Illinois, kind of by Wisconsin. They're known for their sick-ass choir scene. Dude, yeah, totally. But yeah, so that hit me pretty good. And then that was in high school, and that's when I actually started getting into electronic music after that. And then I was like, I could, all I wanted to do was make something like the Prodigy, make something like the Chemical Brothers, right? Yeah. So, what they were doing back in the 90s, I studied really closely and listened really hard as to what they were doing with the music and how they were doing it because there were no like really advanced computers, right? We had real basic shitty computers with like Acid Pro on them, right? Or like Rebirth, you know? There was just, they were just crap. So, what I started doing is listening and I realized that they were building all their songs with samples from other people's things. Right. It was sampled drum patterns. It was sampled vocals. It was sampled like the synthesizers weren't all sampled, but like there was a lot of stuff like that that were that were sampled in there. But like I started doing that and I put out an album with a buddy of mine where we kind of worked on it together. And I still have it to this day. Nobody has seen it or heard it, but it's it's awful. And it's it's all just sample based like music production. When is that coming out when they do the Sky Scott Denisey Anthology. Yeah, yeah, I can't, dude. I'll get, you know how sued I would get? I would get so sued. It wouldn't even be... Can we put it out on like LimeWire or something? Put it on like Torrent Bay or Pirate Bay or whatever it's called? Exactly. We'll get it out there somewhere. That's funny. It sounds like this was like still though this, like you got your feet wet, right? You're making music. Were you performing in front of people? Like were you playing out or just... Not in high school. Yeah, word. David Van Es, Knapp Arcade.
    43:03
    I pickedWinnersTrans Beit Tantur Anta Messina, Which includes some of the ones he's made. Dr. guy How cool it is. Were you going to the local arcade to play fish tails and whatever games were hot at the time? Absolutely. I was awful at Mortal Kombat, just so you guys know, and I still am awful at Mortal Kombat. So if you guys want to talk some shit to me and try and beat me at Mortal Kombat, which you will, I'm game. I'm much better at Street Fighter myself. Yeah, yeah. I can't do that either. So we're good. But yeah, I played, I remember going to the arcades. There's a place called Super Just Games by my house. And that place had, it had a high speed, it had an Addams Family that I do remember. I think those are just the two that I remember. I can't, yeah, I can't remember much else. But they had a few pinball machines, mostly arcade stuff. Like Battlezone was a favorite of mine. I think that this just paints such a good picture. Like it's such a 90s picture, right? You're definitely a technology guy, right? Like now is better than then in terms of like us being connected. But also there is something interesting about you having that drive, that search, you know what I mean? You're connecting with it for the first time, which is really cool. I remember having to go to the mall and just watching the new releases and hoping some kind of electric like electronic band would come out that I had never heard of or something like that and then picking up those CDs it was just it was a totally different time and I know people say that a lot of cliche but like it was so much more intense to like buy an album because you really like only certain record stores you could listen to the CDs before you bought them right yeah so you don't mmhh,
    45:32
    then the thing you want is akhir so here appears in more detail so to You know, it's like, it was a real thing, man. And like, yeah, I had, especially because I'm from Canada and CDs were way more expensive. Sometimes they were imports. So then, you know, it was like, oh, no, I've like blown my whole allowance on this record that I don't like. And yeah, now kids don't know how good they got it. I know, right? You can listen to everything before and be like, does this suck or not? Yeah. But it becomes more your own, too. When you find that, whether it's that pinball machine that's at the drugstore Tom Kajkoff, Fan of Wagim можно Play at maneig, 20 Gy wipGy moras,'veùngmanay, je ос başka приг sparkle, 27,7368,10 Jared Dayton ergo 1501040743 dessus ki 제 18000979 colors District tingham paraI allann It's a place where you can play your favorite songs, like, one song by a band and be like, I like this band and just like buy the whole album and then download the whole thing and then not listen to it until I've actually paid for it. And that kind of gives you that little rush again, too. For sure. Yeah. You know, it's a little way to to, like, kind of like break the system a little bit to, like, give you that back a little. I collect vinyl now and listening to an actual vinyl is very intentional. Instead of me just turning on Spotify and letting it do a random thing, right, that it thinks I'll like, which I don't pay attention to, which is background music at that point, putting on a record requires me to stand up, go walk over there, put the record on, you know, actually make the decision which record to put on, you know, put it on there, you know, listen to it. When it ends, flip it over halfway through. Yeah, exactly. Like there's, it's so intentional. Like, you know, it's not, it's a, it's a thing you have to do. Timings and Subtitles by the Amara.org community
    48:09
    I a fan of the Chicago House DJs like that scene at all during that time Yeah I was a bit more isolated in college or in in high school So okay in high school is a bit I stayed more local I would listen to a lot of the the little local bands like the I started getting into I went through like a couple years of where I got into like hardcore listening to some of the hardcore bands And then I got into like I was listening to like hatebreed and stuff And you know like that kind of thing like for a bit I'm a three-record Chicago baby right there. Oh, yeah, that's that's right. Yeah. Yeah, so I rarely went out
    48:45
    during high school very far now because I was very isolated and where I was because it's Northern Illinois and I really like you know I didn't really yeah, I don't know why I just did not really go that far But then I started getting this itch like the end of high school I was like, you know, I I was I was seeing like all this DJ stuff happening, right and We did go to a few of those clubs that were like 18 and up or 17 and up when we were gonna do that and like listening to these like electronic music DJs and I'm like I want to do that because I I could do like I could find way better crap than what these guys are playing I was like you know you get kind of like you get kind of like oh I could do that and I could do that better you know because you're like a kid right it's so funny too though like you have a different perception of course when you're a kid but also like it happened to me too when I would go to local shows and some of the bands were terrible I was like, I could at least be that terrible. Yeah, I could be I could match that. Yeah. And girls like those guys. So Yeah, so this is awesome. Yeah. So, so I started getting I bought my I saved up a bunch of money before college started. I got accepted into Southern Illinois University. And then I saved up a bunch of money and bought my first set of turntables and a mixer. When I went to college, I brought all my DJ gear with me. And weirdly enough, I started going to house parties where there were DJs like set up and playing on these massively loud systems. And I just started becoming friends with those guys and being like, you know, I can do this too. You ever need me to come out, I'll, you know, got my record crate, you know, I'll come out and I'll play some records, you know, and they're like, Oh, you know, eventually, they're like, Alright, sure, we'll put you on first when there's like nobody on, you know, when there's no one here yet. They're just like, You know, get you in like a warm up thing. And I started doing that. I wasn't very good, but eventually, like, you know, as time went by, I started getting better and better at it. And as my music selection started getting better and better and more focused in, that's when it got like kind of out of hand, because then I started doing the shows and doing the house parties. You know, we had this little crew of people. Everyone had a job, right? Cops come, you grab that turntable, you grab that turntable, you're you're on the mixer. You know, every DJ grabs their records and we get the hell out of there. Pete Natorium, That's above my pay grade at this point, right? Yeah. What do I care how they secured the location? Why do I care that they have power or how they got power? But, you know, there's power, there's music, there's people dancing, there's lasers. Let's, you know, throw down, right? That's awesome. What year was this? This was probably 2002 or 2001. Okay. So we're in there. So like primitive internet. Like, so you could get the word out, but there was no social media yet. I think what always blows my mind too is like how people found out about all this stuff back then. Oh yeah, we printed flyers and we wrote with sidewalk chalk on the sidewalks in college. Yeah. So it was nuts. I still have a box of the flyers too. I kept like some of them and I kept throwing them in like a keepsake thing. So in my basement, I've got a keepsake. So yeah, Ian, next time you're over, we're going to dig through that. Check that out. Absolutely. Like that's how they got the word out though is that, and it's just like word of mouth. We did at one point have a website where we were trying to track and show where parties were, but it was just more of a hassle than anything because it was just telling the cops where we were all the time. I was going to say, I could see that easily being infiltrated. They're like, oh, sick. This is awesome. Yeah, there's some weird legal crap that happened with that too that wasn't great. So we don't, you know, that's all the details we're going to talk about. Oh yeah, that's fine. Statute of Limitations hasn't expired yet on- I mean, I don't know. I mean, how many years is that? Who can say? You do kind of have a- you have a bit of a like, and don't take this the wrong way, in a good way, but sort of an Edward Snowden kind of vibe. I could see you being like sort of a super hacker or something like that, so. Yeah, I mean, I can hold my own, I suppose. Were you doing all that programming and stuff? Because you're such a- it's really interesting to me because you have both. You're a very I'm a very expressive person, you kind of have the music, but you're also definitely an engineer, right? I mean you can't be into pinball without having that side of it. Like, yeah, you are programming during this time or like what is that? You're just and is that what you're doing for your day job or like how how I just I'm trying to get a picture of like the guy who can come to TNA like how does that guy exist in this world, you know? Yeah, okay, so I started in I'm a fan of the The 90s with an Apple 2e computer programming stuff on it because I loved computer programming ever since I was a kid
    54:20
    and so what I was doing was Throughout high school. I took a lot of Like other programming classes. They had like basic programming classes and stuff like it was actually called visual basic Yeah, one of those programs. I
    54:35
    Got in massive trouble for I'm going to be a little bit more, uh, because I, well, let's back up here really quick before I talk about the trouble I got in. I was just, you know, I'll get around to it. My uncle, uh, owned a consulting firm and I would help him and, and, uh, help him do some things. And he would teach me like all this programming stuff. So I knew visual basic really, really well. And so I took a intro to visual basic class in high school and they wouldn't let me test out of it. So I just kind of like screwed around the whole time and that kind of ended poorly because I was like the teacher was seriously like making I mean they wouldn't let me test out of this thing dude the teacher was like make a program that takes two variables and adds them together and then tells you what the result is and I'm like oh my fucking god dude I'm like I'm building a NetSend application that fucking tells that sends the entire like assignment to every The reason we get along so good, like always have is like, you're so smart and so stupid. Like I'm just so stupid. But like, I just, that kind of stuff is so good to me. It's like a very high concept kind of idea. And the end result is like, that's like pinball Olympics in like a nutshell is like that. Yeah. Here, watch your computer screen really quick. Watch this shit. I'm just kidding. I'm just joking. I hope not. I'm not a fan of the word pinball, but I am a fan of pinball because it's a very common word in the game. So I was smart yet stupid and that's a really good point because the rest of the story I got in a lot of trouble with that intro to programming class because what I did was I queried every computer in the computer lab and I got all their IP addresses and I net-sended them. Like I looped in that send like a thousand times with like the with the variable that said like a equals three B equals to like a plus B is five or whatever the hell it was Right. It was just something stupid and I just because it was just the answer to whatever that guy was asking everyone to do
    57:13
    But I forgot to put a limit on the IP addresses And so what it did was it my code. I just executed the code. It had no safety on it And it found all the IP addresses in the entire school It's written in English. And it blasted every computer lab in the school with 1000 things so every computer had to be restarted. Because if you get 1000 pop-up windows, you cannot use your computer. It's impossible to use it. Is that like when the CIA comes and is like, oh, this is our Matt Damon from... Yeah, right? Yeah, exactly. No, but I'll tell you what though, it gets worse. And it gets worse before it gets better. So fast forwarding from learning those kind of computer skills and your music skills and everything else really that you were attaining, you started taking apart pinball machines and putting them back together. Did that happen much later? Or I'm trying to connect all this and how that happened. Yeah, the connection doesn't happen for pinball or arcade stuff until probably halfway through college. I've always been really intrigued by anything you can put quarters in. Like it doesn't really matter what it is like coin op stuff just was like really cool to me. And like the fact that the stuff was just like things you like, like a gumball machine is not something you would have in your house, right? It's not something you're supposed to have in your house. An arcade machine is the same thing like those aren't supposed to be in your house. In your house. But like, after college, I started picking up really crappy arcade games and restoring them and putting them in my house. And it was such a cool thing, you know? My dad had this pinball machine and it was like, that's not supposed to be in here. Like, that's so cool. Long story short on that, though, is the arcade stuff I got really into and then all of sudden I saved up enough money to buy a pinball machine and I bought a HiSpeed for 300 bucks or something. I have a high speed. Do you? It's so good. I have a high speed and it's right across from my TNA. They are like, they're looking at each other in my, in my, uh, in my little arcade. Heck yeah. But those two, uh, they got, they got something in common. You know, they're brutal. They feel like cousins, like spiritual cousins for sure. Yeah, definitely. The beacon on the top and everything. Yeah. A lot of people who are like, have heard our podcast know about TNA, but it is worth talking about just because we love to highlight like homebrew, So, because there is such a strong aesthetic, right, in TNA and it's expressed in many different ways. It's expressed in a layout, right? We just said a brutal layout. It's expressed in the lights and the artwork for it and definitely the music, right? So, I'm just like, how did you kind of come to, like, how was that all brewing in your head or what was sort of like the inciting moment for you for that? Brewing in your head, that's a good way to put it. It is, yeah, that's a great way to put it. So yeah, when TNA started, I was frustrated at the time because when TNA was getting, you know, when it was brewing in my head, like Wizard of Oz was out by JJP and that was like, it was neat to see another manufacturer spin up and actually make pinball machines again. But I was like, I don't want a pinball machine like that. I'm like, what I want is something like Cosmic Gunfight, right? I want something like You know, one of the old classic valleys, right? And the reason for that is because at that point, like I had a bunch of friends in the pinball collection, you know, community here. And I started noticing that when new collectors got into pinball, they started going and this was at the time, right? This isn't this is before Stern got like massive again. People were like, I got to have the medieval madness. I got to have Cactus Canyon. I got to have like all these WPC games, right? That was the early collector, right? That was the person who just started collecting, thinking that's the best pinball of all time. And then what happens is they get those games and they play those games a ton and they start regressing backward into pinball. And it happens every time and it happens to everybody. And it's not a bad thing at all. But you start realizing like, wait a second, like less is more on this stuff. Word, yeah. David Van Es, Knapp Arcade.
    62:10
    David Van Es, Knapp Arcade. Aquamecia Snappi, Chuck was at Spemale, Tomignani, solo day drive and at Picklehead cost to going certainly ativos and
    63:04
    that and um I'm going to do it anyway. The secret to my games. Here's an ad break. Yeah, ad break. It just bleeps out.
    63:29
    The secret to it is actually pretty simple. The games are actually physically fighting you. I'm going to be honest with you. Okay, it's not Steve Richie knows this Steve Richie absolutely knows this thing, right? And this is kind of where I got that philosophy from was him. But the games will physically fight you. It's not a fight through software. It's not a fight through like, you know, anything else. It's just straight physical fighting through that. So in TNA is pretty self explanatory. That layout is punishing as hell. Right? Rick and Morty, that layout is purposely designed to screw you. Right? It's, if you look at Rick and Morty and you divide it in half, right? Like straight down the middle, vertically down the middle, right? The left hand side is gonna screw the shit out of you. And the right hand side is everything is pretty normal. Right? So, and that game is supposed to be very, very chaotic and crazy. And you're supposed to be out of control. Right? Cause you are Morty, and Morty has no control of his life. So, it's so and it fights you like it's it's tough to kick the scoops are always firing back at you at dangerous ways, right? And, you know, it's they're angry. The games are angry at you and you are angry at them because of you are you're just trying to stay alive and you're like, why are you trying to fight me so much? I want to explore the software and it's like, nope, you cannot. So when you're getting inspired to start designing a game, how are you attacking it first? Is it the layout? Is it a theme that's in your head? It depends. I have a bunch of ideas, little bits of ideas that I just keep in my notebook, but the theme has to make sense. I couldn't do justice if I were to make a Dungeons and Dragons game. 20 sample
    65:51
    I'm just going to be like, ah, the theme's not crazy enough for me, so I'm just going to say no, right? Yeah. So it's got to be brutal. Yeah. And that makes sense with Steve Ritchie and like Black Knight, you know, like both the new one and 2000 are brutal. Absolutely. And I'm not saying every game has to be brutal either. Like it's just that there's enough games in the market right now that are of different genres, but I don't think that brutality is that fair, okay, I'm going to call it fair brutality. You can't just be totally brutal and be unfair to people. Like people won't play it. They'll just get frustrated and walk away. For sure. But there's a balance that you have to find. That's what actually makes it really difficult to make a brutal game. What are some of your favorite brutal games? Well, TNA is my favorite brutal game. I'm just kidding. It's one of my— I agree. I do agree. I kind of is. I joke about that but it actually is. Like that's— Same, dude. I can say that. I can justify this too because remember it's a game that I created for myself and my friends. That was the game we wanted to play dollar games on so I built it in a way that would be perfect for playing dollar games against your buddies. It's the perfect party game. I always say that because when people talk about like buying pinball machines and kind of the different philosophies and they're like, you know, because TNA is so different. So sometimes I think for new people who are maybe just used to playing a lot of maybe longer playing games, it's like sort of wrapping their head around that that it's fun to have a 15 second ball or a 10 second ball is like is hard. But then when you have four people playing and you're all like drinking or smoking or doing whatever, and you're just like having a good time and it's just like the thing that's like getting you all together, right? Like that's such a benefit. You don't want long players, you know, it's it's it is like, It's a party game. Like that is that's what I like about it. Oh, the the TNA that I picked up from, from my friend, it was coming off location. And I looked up what the ball times were.
    67:54
    Oh my gosh, I'm so curious. I'll look it up again. Well, it'll be a little longer now because I'm probably better than the average schmuck in the in the arcade. But it was it was something like nine seconds. Yeah, that's crazy. Okay, that's too low. That's a little bit too low. So, he had it set pretty hard too, like for tournaments and stuff, I think, even though you don't have to do that with that game. But, but part of the reason I picked it up, it's like, it's right beside a Lord of the Rings, Lord of the Rings, like notoriously long ball times. And like, I don't always have like 30 minutes to play a game, you know, sometimes I just want to want a quick game. So, so that's, I think that's awesome. Yeah. I don't ever want long games. Like that's what was really good about the arcade games for me. Like if I want to go play dig, Doug or something, right. I'm not good I'm going to play that thing for like a minute or two and then I'm done. I get a game over and then I'm like, cool, I'm going to go do something else. I'm going to go socialize with my buddies over here and talk about how much I suck at Dig Dug, but I like it. Your games are such like they are full of intensity and like that sort of just like fast dopamine hits, you know, like that sort of thing is just like a hallmark. And so it's funny is like you kind of say brutal and I'm like, well, that's not the case. I'm sure that brutal is almost sometimes used as a criticism, but when I think about these, I'm like, think about how awesome it is when you blow up a reactor. Think about how awesome these kind of like moments are where it's just like, you're just like, ah, like I always picture like guys like blowing up, attacking the Death Star, you know, it's like that kind of a vibe all the time, which is just like super fun. Like I, yeah, it's, it's interesting too, because it's like, um, you, you can have those moments, right. David Van Es, Knapp Arcade.
    70:05
    We'll go back and play it again and again. Yeah, for sure. Something about TNA that's interesting is it's like a home-brew design that actually transitioned into being a commercial pinball machine. Has that ever happened before that game or ... It has actually. So Pat Lawler did Bonsai Run in his garage. Oh, yeah. Wow. And then he brought that in and he pitched it and they built it. Yeah. I have done nothing in pinball that hasn't been done before. Same, same. I can't name one thing that I have done that has that has not already been done in a pinball machine. I've never seen a digital ball save timer before. It was on the P3 on Lexi Lightspeed. Okay. Like they just beat you to it? They beat me to it on there. Yeah, yeah. I didn't actually totally realize it was there. And same with co-op too. I didn't totally realize Lexi Lightspeed had co-op already. Um, but, uh, it did, it totally did. So it must've like, I must've played it and like subconsciously like had it in my brain, but you know what? It doesn't matter if I didn't do anything first. I don't care. So wait, is there a person who has like designed the game and the music also? Uh, Steve Richie designed high speed and did the music for high speed. He did? Yep. He did. Yeah. That's so insane to me. Yeah, I know, it is. Steve Ritchie's done a bunch of music. Dude, Steve Ritchie is like an amazing dude. Like, he really, really is super talented. Now, is there someone who built a game, programmed it, also did the music, also did the light shows, like all this other shit? I don't know. So that's, I'm saying, I think we could figure out a niche for you. We could- I'm sure someone's done it. Okay, they've got dirty blonde hair that they cover up with a black hat every day, wears glasses, also made a game.
    72:05
    Well what funny to me is you such a like really I mean we can talk about this a little bit but your parties are always so fun You such a sweet guy in the pinball community that it funny that you and Steve Richie are like kind of the closest analogs when it comes to because he is such a prickly individual famously So it funny that you guys are like kind of that makes me wonder like what traits make a good pinball designer to you That's an interesting question. I've never been asked before. You have to push the limits of what's acceptable. That's that's a big thing that I've learned. Rick and Morty was a big example of that. Was that lower pop bumper instead of the slingshot. That's not acceptable to pinball collectors. If you just were to pitch that to somebody, they'd be like, yeah, no, that is, you're crazy. Get the hell out of here. Yeah, that's dumb. You just have to do stuff and you have to experiment. You have to break things in order to succeed. And that goes with like, this is so stupid, but this goes with software as well, right? I used to be a consultant in the business intelligence space where I would make massive like business intelligence systems, you know, and I would push their software to its breaking point to see how, how far could we push it and like to do all this really ridiculous crap that's like textbook says you shouldn't be doing. And I want to see like, I want to see how it breaks, right? And then you can back it off from there. If you know how it's going to break, then you can get crazy with it and make it not break. It's the same thing with design philosophies. How far can you push a person, a pinball player, to like, you want them just under their breaking point? I've never thought of engineers as reckless before or like pushing to the breaking point, but that is essentially kind of what you're doing, but it's just you're figuring out through ... Yeah, that's just an interesting way to look at it. I suppose you have to, right? When you engineer things, you have to figure out how they're going to break, right? For safety, right? Yeah, absolutely. For safety. For safety reasons, for sure. But for innovation reasons, you can push stuff way further. Like, um, like safety for like pushing stuff to breaking point for safety reasons. It's kind of boring in my opinion. Like I, I, I designed Eurorack modules in my spare time, which is like super weird. But like when I design one of those. Can you just explain to people what that is? Planete, Prathap Dravid Gaur LEGO, well ca zat t So, I have to take that thing and I have to run it at way higher voltages than it could potentially ever get while it's hooked up, right? I have to ground all the outputs and make sure it doesn't overheat or blow up or anything, right? It's that kind of stuff, right? But also, like, there's things like when I get a new module in my Eurorack collection, right? It says like, hey, this input is for, you know, slowly moving control voltages. Well, the first thing I do is I pump in as I'm going to make sure I'm as fast of a signal into it as possible and see where it breaks. Word, yeah. Because it will eventually shut down because it has no idea what it's doing, but like it's going to shut down in a way that's going to do some crazy audio shit and I will record that. I was going to ask, you have the intellectual and artistic curiosity there of like you want to see what the fuck is going to happen. Obviously. Like when it blows up, like what the color is it going to blow up, you know, or whatever. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and can I capture that color, you know? And there's an interesting fearlessness in that that I think people don't like associate Later!
    76:34
    I was at a hotel and I found like a shitty blanket and I like chucked it over the top of my like you know huge rack that's worth like more than I want to talk about and I can't I can't get these modules back ever again if I were to break them like I just threw a crappy towel over it and I'm like yeah whatever I just chucked it in the back of my car and I went home I plugged in it's fine nothing wrong with it yeah like whatever dude if I even spill water on that thing I can fix it like dry it out yeah you know you seem like such a I'm a renaissance man. Like, can I say that? Like, you seem like just, you know so much about so many different things, which is probably why you're so successful in pinball, but you're successful in so many other things too. Like, you know, you're talking about all the different things you've designed and worked for and all the different companies and everything. Like, in a way, it almost takes away from your pinball career because you have so many opportunities outside of pinball that probably are more lucrative. Um, you know, for, for a professional career, is, is that, is that a reality that like with pinball, it's, it's something more of a hobby that you do when you, when you're designing, building machines, um, because of, of just like everything else going on professionally with you? Yeah, for sure. So, um, I am lucky enough to be at a point in my life where I kind of pick what I want to do. I'm not, I'm not working, um, in pinball because I have to have a job. I'm I can go get a job doing something else and it would be no big deal right I used to do tons of database business intelligence stuff which I could go back to that stuff pays ridiculously right but I quit doing that because it was very stressful and it was it was taking a lot of my time and I wanted to do something that was more fun like if I'm just gonna do a nine-to-five job I wanted to be in something fun so like when I get home I'm not just destroyed right right so I got a job doing pinball stuff and yes, I make severely less money.
    78:37
    Like, but I am not as stressed out. You know, I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm a little stressed at times, as you should be. Right. Because I do care a lot about what I do.
    78:50
    But but yeah, it's. I don't know, I guess some of the stuff does take away from it. Like, right. You know, I'm I'm not really working on too much right now, pinball wise. David Van Es, Knapp Arcade.
    79:32
    Mikey한 Jurassic.cat vortex dessasation. Villagrosovic Lenin, tiresnsetoldesign.f段ishtenginexیا Итак, studios and Хорошо, 산я свис, Video, You're actually the second DJ we've had on the podcast. We had a wonderful man named Scheme Richards who gave us the horniest, the horniest pinball interview of all time. And that was Shane's pick for a homebrew he'd love to see as a leisure suit. Dude, someone needs to do that. That would be so cool. Oh, my Lord. Yeah. Anyway, well, you can. Yeah. If you want to build it, I'll be your consultant. Alright, so that's the thing, that's the weird thing though, is like, I don't know if I'm ever gonna do a homebrew ever again. Really? Like, I just don't, I don't think, I just don't think I have the ability to do it again. TNA took a lot out of me when I did that and it burned me out and I didn't want to, I don't want to experience that again. Cause like, the burnout for me is pretty bad, like I, I'm a very motivated person, I take a lot of pride in like, what I build and what I do. But I don't know, we'll see, I mean, who knows, I might- You never say never. Who even knows if I'll, yeah, I don't even know if I'll even design another production game, I don't know. At this point right now, I'm kinda just happy like doing music stuff and like, you know, I wanna make another album out soon, like I, you know. Hell yeah. It'd be kinda fun to just focus again on that. Your performances are always the highlight of MGC for sure and, and that's... Oh man, dude this year, did I tell you what's going on this year yet? No, what's going on, for people, for people listening, come to Milwaukee for MGC. Hey, it's MGC. It's coming up real soon. One of the fun things is the Scott Dinesy dance party that happens. It's not open to the public, but you might be able to find your way in. I don't know. You can bring a game to MGC. It's open to the public if you pay. I think you have to pay a lot of money, though. It's just kind of weird. Or bring a game. Just bring a pinball machine to MGC and then you're in. There you go. But what's the plan this year, Scott? So this year is pretty cool. So I got, um, one of my friends is a, uh, he works for a Euro, a really big Euro rack company, um, making modules and he's also, uh, like a rave DJ, just like I was back in the day. And, uh, we're, he was over here like last, uh, last, uh, I don't know, November or something for this knob con festival that we all go to, um, which is all synthesizer crap. Uh, and, uh, we were having a party here at my house, like a In this webcast, this program was created with commentators, people who haven't subscribed disable sanctại and gkpn The gitan of kwn spokes for this 더 pec 좀 mangosteen Gı installing We're going to just like just jam like this like crazy bass house stuff. It's going to be a lot of fun. And we're not sharing. We're not sharing what we're going to play with each other. Just like hell. Yeah. Well, I don't know how you're going to beat all the Marco people being in like Jaws outfits like it was last year or. Oh, yeah. I think a movie is an alien. Yeah, I have such great pictures from that. I mean, the video, the video of that made our year end video. It's so much fun. David Van Es, Knapp Arcade. I'm a fan of the song where everyone else was dancing and stuff and just kind of like hung out with them and she was behind all that and had no clue how to do any of it and was really worried that like she was gonna like didn't know what if the song ends or like whatever but like you know she didn't know as I hit what she didn't know as I as I walked away I hit a looper button so it wasn't gonna progress the song anymore but like so I could stay I saw I was just like messing with her like that she was the only one behind the turntables and it was amazing. You have such an impish sense of humor I will say that that is where There's an amazing picture that your wife Sarah Rose took of me taking a picture of Eric as he's barfing at Pinball Lovers. Oh man, that is so famous. And I have the biggest smile on my face as one of my very good friends is just ralphing. It's like so happy. It was amazing. That moment was so good and that picture is one of the best pictures. It's so iconic. This is a very hot topic. It's a very hot topic. Well, it just shows you truly in my soul that I'm happiest when my friends are... Yeah, they're vomiting. You know, when they're hurt. Yeah, when they're barfing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I have one last question. I got to know about the Downward Spiral Nine Inch Nails record and... Oh, crap. ...the story there. That was the one thing you left us hanging on. I did. So, okay. It's actually a really short story and it's just funny and everyone can laugh at me all they want to. This is at my expense. This is a joke at my expense, right? So, uh, the song hurt on that album, right? Amazing, amazing song, very emotional. Just it's great, right? I went my whole goddamn life thinking that Johnny Cash wrote that and Trent Reznor remixed it. And I just want to say that out loud. And for those of you that think Johnny Cash wrote that song, uh, he didn't. Tresnor wrote it and johnny cash covered it
    85:51
    Yeah Yeah, I guess a lot of people don't know that but I guess I'm surprised that you definitely because I did not know never remembered the Record coming out when you were probably like a teenager, right? I Remember downwards viral coming out. Yes, but I never Knew when the Johnny Cash version of that song came out So I never because I never had the record I just knew of the song and I was like wow that song is the Johnny Cash is so good at that like it's just so good but I assumed that that was before the record came out in the 90s right yeah so yeah I guess that would make sense if you like I'm sure a lot of younger people think that for sure like absolutely but I remember that Johnny Cash record came out and had a cover of Soundgarden Rusty Cage on it I think he had did it okay he did a whole bunch of contemporary um songs at the time I remember that too Okay, so that's where, yeah, that's where I screwed up. Thank you for feeling like this is a safe space where you can feel free to admit that vulnerability. Absolutely, man. I'm trying to think, I mean, I used to be in a ska band. That's very embarrassing. Yeah, that's fine. You know? It's all good. It's all good. But, Shane, do you have anything you want to admit? Like, just like- No, I just don't know if the outro music should be Johnny Cash, Nine Inch Nails, or Hatebreed. I don't know. We can- Oh, man. I went to a Hatebreed concert when they came through the Midwest and I was little Scott, right? Jumped in the mosh pit thinking I was just going to get my ass handed to me. And like, dude, I got knocked over pretty hard, but like three people just fucking picked me back up. Oh yeah. Like picked me up off the floor so I wasn't going to get trampled. I wasn't going to get hit again. The Mostly, it's great. Let's leave it there. What a beautiful sentiment. Absolutely. Thanks Scott so much, man. Appreciate you coming on the show and good luck with everything, you know, in the future. And I really hope the pinball, you know, you're like, I don't know if I'll make a homebrew. I don't know if I'll make a commercial machine. I really hope you do. Me too. I know a lot of people listen to this agree with me. Excellent. Well, thanks guys. It was a lot of fun.
    88:27
    So there it is with Mr. Scott Denisi, the renaissance man of pinball. And he's done some crazy stuff in his life. That was absolutely awesome to hear. And I'm a little sad that what he said about his future in pinball and I hope that changes. I really hope we don't have to live the rest of our days with only these Scott Denisey designed pinball machines. I feel you. It's interesting, right? I think once he catches the bug he'll want to do it again, but I think there's a season for everything and maybe right now that's not the vibe for him. So
    90:11
    Please hit the subscribe button, follow us, like us, share this on your social media, even if you've got like 26 followers, still, it all helps. We're trying to grow this thing. And of course, like we said in the intro, we are looking for sponsors. So whatever you do in pinball or even outside of pinball, if you want to advertise on a pinball podcast, you know, we're all ears for that as well. But feel free to hit us up. Tell your dad. He's like a rich dentist that's like, hey, these guys have a podcast and the people who listen to it have terrible teeth. They might though. I've smelled some breath at pinball tournaments. Okay. Knowing just the general kind of cleanliness of these fucking freaks, like 100%, they need some dental care. So I'm just saying whatever it is, it doesn't matter. Hit us up. We want to hear from you. So, up until then y'all, it's so fun to get to talk Shane with you every week and kind of explore this hobby with people that you wouldn't always expect to be into it. So I'm just looking forward to the next couple months here. Pinball's the fucking best. No days off. Let's go.
    91:37
    Subtitles by the Amara.org community iert transcend sixth-gaio on the G Tribute To Data Shot, hearing John Papadiuk. What was happening was every, like we had high speed internet, right? We had this, we had this like first broadband internet, right? Pretty quick, right? It was better than the dial up crap. So what would happen was you would, you would sign in in the morning to this internet, right? And at midnight, the internet would disconnect you and make you resign in again so that you would, it would, you couldn't download crap overnight, right? Sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So what I did was I wrote a little application that all it did was watch the internet. It was very, it was super nice. Like it was very, you know, didn't do anything stupid. It just watched the internet. If the internet went down, it saved your credentials for you in a little file and then it would just re-log you in immediately. So LimeWire would actually not stop its download. It would just look like a little glitch because it was like really fast. So you could download stuff all night then, right? Wait, but before we go on in this story, what kind of stuff was young Scott downloading off these things? It was probably stupid stuff like movies or something. I don't know man. South Park episodes, freaking South Park episodes. That was huge. It was probably something illegal, but in those days it was the wild wild west. It was like, yeah, I was downloading the blaster virus. That you could get from the internet for free by the way. Do you know that? It's really easy to download that thing. Toon and You know what happens when you have a disc with the cool thing on it that's gonna save you from having to log in every day on your internet? People are making copies of it all over the place. For sure. It spread to the entire freaking campus, dude. Did they know it was you or did you keep it anonymous? Well, they got mad at first. First thing they did was get mad. That's the first stage. Then they had some of their best network security people take the application and decompile it and try to figure out like who made it or whatever if they were trying to figure out where it came from. And it unfortunately had a build code in it with my serial number for my visual studio in it. So it was linked to me who built it. So they found me. I got in a lot of trouble for it. But the weird thing is, is they couldn't shut it down. So, little intro sorts from this portion. Christina Barge aka b-s identical Chris Where Absolutely Over Rest At This Show! They were not happy and that was a very scary time right there.