Showtime! We shall never surrender! We don't want! He slimed me. You got the power. I am the Black Knight. Get ready for battle. Be the Black Knight. We're blowing up. My game! My beautiful game! Look what you've done! I said Deadpool will kick you in the can. Can you punch yourself, since I can't? The Beatles! Bring him on! Maybe you can drive my car. It's Beatlemania! Nedry isn't here. I'll give the new guy access. Welcome to Jurassic Park. you. Jerry, I used to brag. I used to think I was the best JT in pinball, but then there's this guy, Jack Tadman, who's just outstanding. I'm not even the best JT when it comes to radio or audio. So that crown goes to you. Oh, you're too kind. It's good to talk to you. How are things in the Northwest, first of all? Great. You know, just like everybody else, staying in and trying to stay busy. And luckily, that's not a problem. I've got pinball work and my other voice work and production and stuff. So I've been really busy through this whole thing. So I'm very fortunate. So has life really not changed much because you are at home in studio? No. I mean, I've been in here in my little room with no windows for 17 years. So it's not that much different for me. I've always thought radio producers, and I'm kind of the same way being in these small enclosed places too. When it comes to recording, I always thought, you know, if I ever go to jail, it'll feel like heaven because it'll be like so much wide open, you know, there was bars. There's a window with bars. That's great. Yeah, I really, I mean, it's my favorite place. Even though I got to do some really cool things and be on the radio, all I ever wanted to do really was work for myself and work from home. So, I mean, this is my dream job. And since I'm a huge pinball fan, getting to do pinball now too, I mean, I couldn't ask for more. That is when work isn't really work, when you love what you're doing. Right. Not many people are fortunate. You certainly are. I feel that I am as well too. and you love pinball and now you get to do all these amazing machines. You have these trophies everywhere. I know your collection is huge too, but it's just got to be a real proud papa moment for someone like yourself. You know, it really is. I mean, and George is putting together, I mean, the future of pinball. I mean, Keith Elwin, I mean, and Raymond Davidson. I mean, you got the guys that made the games we love there, you know, the 90s and 80s Williams Valley, and then the new guys who are going to take over eventually. And I'm just thrilled to be part of it. I mean, I've been collecting for 22 years and was a fan long before I got to work on one. And even though it is a lot of work, it is, yeah, I mean, it's a joy. People always say, oh, I would do this for free. And that's one of those cases where I just love working. And really, everybody there does. And they buy the games, too. I mean, you know, Dean Grover and I bought Beatles. We loved working on that. That was so much fun to do. And I know Keith Elwin and Mike Vinikour have Batman. I got one of those. Of course, Lyman does. I mean, when the guys who are making them are buying them, too, that says a lot. For you, it was not much different in the way of doing voice work, but it's the production that was different. I mean, you got some voice work early on. But when you finally convinced George, hey, let me be the guy on Ghostbusters, recall what that was like. Well, I mean, it's a long story of how I got there. I went to my first Pinball Expo in 2003. I believe it was the first Texas show because I was doing morning radio in Houston. And I had gone to their little get-together there and met Steve Ritchie there. And the following year, I thought, you know, I got to go to the Mecca. I got to go to the Chicago show. So Pinball Expo 2004 was my first one. And, you know, I drug my translights and things across the country and flyers to get signed because I'm like, wow, I can't believe you get to meet these people. And at the banquet, you know, you just kind of file in there and end up where you end up. And so I ended up sitting at the table with the Bally Williams art people, Greg Freres, Margaret Hudson and Pat McMahon, Kevin O'Connor. And I didn't say anything to any of them because I'm just like, oh, I get this. Wow. I get to sit with these people that I admire. You know, fast forward to 2008. We were getting together every October in a pinball place in Oak Harbor. Guy named Brett Fritch started that. And it's like, hey, bring some machines. So 2008, we were like, you know, this has gotten so big that people are out the door of the pizza place. Maybe we should try to have a show. So everybody volunteered. I took on the role of organizing the seminars. And I knew Steve Ritchie was in California. So I contacted him and I said, hey, you were the first guy I met at a pinball show. Would you like to come up and be at our first show? And he's like, sure, I'll drive up there. And he got a ticket, of course, because, you know, he likes to go fast. So he was our first guest speaker. And then I needed to find some other people who were free because we didn't know. There was a guy who volunteered to put up the money, Chris Wall. She's like, yep, I'll fund it. We can see how we do. And so it turns out we had like 1,000 people, and it was a success, but we didn't know. So we didn't have a budget, really. So I took up donations from fans and local pinball guys to pay Steve's expenses to come up. So I needed free people. So I asked Steve Wiebe, who's local, you know, the Donkey Kong guy. Yep. And he said yes. And then I had read in Penn Game Journal that David Thiel lived here, too. And I was like, oh, great. I'll reach out to him. And he said yes. And, you know, didn't know at the time Brian Schmidt lives here, too. It's like, yeah. So Brian was a guest later. So that was our 2008 show. You know, we had those three. And then Greg Dunlap said, I'll do a seminar. And I was like, of what? And he's like, well, I used to work at Williams. I was there when they closed down. And I've got some cool video that I shot after everything was gone and abandoned. And I was like, oh, yeah, that'd be great. So we had a cool seminar schedule the first year. Fast forward to 2009. I'm like, who can I get? And so Greg Freres had been at the Texas show and he wrote a great email thanking the people. And it was published. And I thought, that's the kind of guy I want. You know, I mean, you want good people. So it's like, OK, got an artist. Now we got budget to bring two people in. Who can I get? Well, obviously, Dennis has to go with Greg. So I invited them both and I sat them next to each other on the plane. well it turns out they talked on the way there and decided they should make a game together and that became woe nelly so i met lonnie through david Lonnie Ropp and so in 2011 he was doing rolling stones and he knew i'd been on the radio so he called me and he's like hey it's snowing here i'm stuck at home i'm gonna write some script and would you help write some things for the announcer it's gonna be like a radio announcer and i want some like radio factoid things that you would say over the beginning of records. I was like, sure, I'll do that. So fast forward to 2014, I think he called me and said, hey, we're doing a Mustang game and we need some more voice work. He said, since you didn't get to talk in Rolling Stones, you want to talk in Mustang? And I was like, oh, it's my dream because, you know, I mean, I used to hear Tim Kitts row in all these games that I own, you know, Twilight Zone and Shadow and NBA Fast Break and think, oh, you know, and Roadshow, too. And just think, wow, if I could ever be in a pinball machine, that would be so cool. You know, so that was my aspiration at the time. I was like, I can't get any better than this. So in 2015, Greg called me and said, hey, you know, since you helped put us together and we got this idea for Wonelli, we're going to do it with Stern and we need sound and you need to be the guy that gives us the sound. And I was like, oh, that'd be a dream. So I was the radio DJ in there. The, you know, the W. I forget what it is. W. Double D. I should know that. So I was the radio announcer and I got my best friend Rod Olson who is a collector here and runs Seattle Pinball League to do just some crazy they want Dennis described it as crazy guy so I had him do that everyone knows the Rodfather exactly and so uh he recorded those and Dennis is like I love the crazy guy so much I'm gonna write a whole nother page of copy for him and then a girl who worked at a radio station in Shreveport was the female character, Melanie. So that was my first project. On that one, I provided all the sounds and the programmer put it in. And so that was not something I consider my first full sound package because I didn't do the mixing and all that stuff. So later in the year, they needed some help on Game of Thrones. And Greg told Dwight, you should call Jerry. So he called me and said, hey, I need some speech processing work done on this. And I remember meeting you at Expo and Greg said, call you. So I worked on that, went out there and I told Dwight after we were into it a while, I said, I know you're going to do Ghostbusters next. And I said, I really want to be the sound guy for this because David had left by then. You really wanted to do Ghostbusters. Was it because of the theme or you just wanted to do your own full package? You wanted to be the guy. Well, it was theme. I mean, I graduated in high school in 86. So Ghostbusters was my era, you know, and everybody loves the movie. And so I just said, please let me do this game. I feel like I'm the best person for it. And Dwight said, well, you've never done one by yourself. And this is a big project. And I said, just give me a chance. I said, I hear it in my head already. And so we talked to George and he's like, but you've never done one before. I said, give me a month. If it doesn't work out, get rid of me. How dare Dwight? And Dwight's a good buddy of mine, too. And I know you love them, too. But how dare him say you've never done it before? Everybody has to have a first. Well, I was really fortunate that it ended up being with him. I mean, he's a great teacher. And, you know, he's like, he's like, we have a little bit of time. Turn in your basic sound package, what you think it should be. Well, the first thing I did was work with my music guy, Shawn Myers. And I said, here's what it should sound like. Can you whip up some tunes? So a couple of days after I initially talked to him, I sent him back the piano tune that you hear in there. And I said, here's what I will bring. And they were like, OK, maybe, maybe this guy can do it. Yeah. So but I gave Dwight my sound package and he's like, OK, here's the good stuff. Here's what could be improved. And here's why. So, I mean, that was invaluable, you know, because I've been playing pinball for a long time and collecting. But you don't even even I didn't realize how many sounds were in a game and especially more now because of the video. I mean, when those video guys hand off the videos, they have no sound. So I have to make dinosaurs run around and touch electric fences and Jeeps move and impacts and all that stuff. And everything you see on the screen has to have a sound. So it is a lot of work, but it's a lot of fun. I mean, how many people can say, hey, yeah, I got to make dinosaurs run today? That is interesting, too, because I remember when Jurassic Park came out, scientists said we don't know what dinosaurs sounded like so you just kind of went with whatever the movie went and i assume when you doing your sound effects we were really lucky on that one because universal gave us all of the dinosaur sounds from the movie And I got to credit Keith Owen I mean he came up with a lot of cool ideas for that He's got a great ear, and he's like, instead of putting regular sounds on a lot of these things, let's dinosaur it up. Let's make dinosaur on the left out lane and dinosaur, you know, a bird on the spinner. That game really was more immersive because of him. And I mean, that's my goal is to make you feel like you're in the situation. I mean, that's the thing that amazes me, Jerry, is because you come up with all these different sounds. Sometimes you get a lot of assets. In the case of Batman 66, I heard you say on the 2018 head-to-head interview, you talked about you watched all 120 episodes and you got a lot of sound, especially for someone like Lyman who wants to have just give him as much as possible so that he can kind of store it here and maybe come back to it. But something like Jurassic Park or even Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, are there as many assets? What is easier for you, Jerry, when you have all the assets or when you have to create all the assets, when you have this blank canvas? Hmm. I have not thought about that. How long did it take you to watch 120 Batman 66 episodes and get clips from all those? I can't imagine. Well, I mean, it's at least 60 hours because they're half-hour episodes. But, you know, I watched all the Monsters episodes, too, and I watched all 26 Elvira movies. We all did. I mean, that's just what you have to do. But when you look at packages or I look at packages that I love, I mean, Chris Granner did such great work with Indiana Jones, the Williams game and Twilight Zone and Lord of the Rings, where especially Lord of the Rings and Indiana Jones, where you just feel like you're playing the movie. And that's the goal. I mean, I don't want to do anything that takes you out of the experience. So if I do my job well, you just say, this feels right, and you don't even notice sometimes the sounds or the music or whatever, but you know when something's not right. So hopefully I hit it on every time. I mean, Turtles came out really great, and I love hearing when it all comes together. You know, that's a great feeling for everybody when it all comes together. It was a great team on Turtles. Obviously on Turtles, because everything could be custom written. Well, in Jurassic 2, everything could be custom written for the game. It made it more flexible so you could have the characters say whatever you wanted. Luckily in Batman, we had Adam and Bert, and I tried to EQ them so that they sounded similar to the TV show clips so that it would blend. But in a case where you have voice actors and the real show, I mean, that would never work because you would say, hey, that's not the guy. But when they're all custom and they sound right, you know, I think it's a better experience. I wouldn't want to mix Jurassic voices with movie clips. That is the tough thing with Adam, who recorded Batman in the 60s, in his 30s. When you're getting him, he's 80. So no, he was 80. Was he? I think he was 89. Wow. 89. So as you get older, I have found you probably have to. You lose a little bit of that timber you once had. So for you to EQ that and also, too, with whatever the sound quality was from getting those 120 episodes, how hard was that to match up? Well, Keith Elwin said, because I did some processing changes after the initial, we put them in because I recorded him, you know, with new equipment. And so I put the stuff in the game and then I was like, no, this is not right. So after I heard it together with the clips and the new recordings, I was like, no, I got to fix this. They shouldn't sound different. And so I sped Adam up the new recordings and took a lot of bass out and made it more mid-range and matching the TV show clips. And same thing with Bert. And so Keith Elwin, the next time I was at Stern, he's like, man, you took 50 years off, Adam, with whatever you did. And I was like, good, that was what I wanted to do. And so, I mean, I've had so many cool experiences in my life with playing drums and with radio. But the pinball thing, I mean, getting to record Adam was a blast. And he was so funny. He could read the phone book and make it funny. It's been said many times before, nobody messes with Adam Wee. Well, when I do voice sessions, I don't like to be an over-director. And when I'm doing the work for somebody, I'll usually say, hey, let me give it to you the way I would do it. And then if you want to change something, we'll do it again. But let me show you my approach. So with him, I said, hey, I'm not going to nitpick every line and have you redo everything. I said, let's just go through them. And I said, I mean, you're Batman. I'm not going to tell you how to be it. And he goes, I feel that's wise. Rest in peace, Adam. Yeah. It was just a joy to be around when he came to Stern and recorded some additional stuff and signed all those cards that went in the LE games. And and he was reading the back of the cards and in that voice. But I did tell him because he started he kind of morphed from the original Batman into Mayor West and stuff, you know. And so when he started recording the Batman lines, I was like, let's take it down a notch and be sure you're you're Batman and not a caricature that he kind of turned into. But, yeah, I mean, that was just such a blast for for Joe Cam and Cal to be. He knew him from, you know, working with him with slots and stuff. And to get him at Expo was such a fun thing for everybody, especially since he died nine months later. I mean, I'm glad we got him when we did. Yeah, for sure. So here's this guy getting his flyers signed, now working, putting together these sounds for amazing machines, not just one but several, and now working with incredible voice talent as well. Adam West, we're about the same age, Jerry. So, yeah, we grew up watching Batman. That was our Batman. Right. And I have to imagine, even though you're in it, you still, once in a while, with all the rock stars you've met in radio, you still get a little starstruck once in a while. Well, yeah. I mean, it's kind of weird because, you know, they're coming into work. When Elvira came in to record her stuff, she's just such a great, natural, fun, friendly person. And it was kind of like not, you know what I mean? It's hard to describe, but it's like, hey, we're all working on this one project that we all want to be great. There was not really any of that. And Cousin Brucie for Beatles, I mean, what a great guy. That's what I'm saying. There's so many great people. When George said, you know, we're going to do a Beatles game, that's the only one other than Ghostbusters where I've gone in and said, I'm the world's biggest Beatles fan. I have to do this game. And he said, okay. Luckily, that was easy. But I said, you know, what are you thinking? And he's like, well, we're going to do a radio announcer for the voice of the game. And I was like, well, it has to be Cousin Brucie. I said, you know, he's still on the radio. He was there at Shea Stadium introducing him with Ed Sullivan. And, I mean, to me, it's got to be him. That was your idea? Yeah. Brilliant. I had Cousin Brucie on Pinball Profile. I'm a huge fan. I mean, us longtime radio guys, we all know the importance of what he's done. You used to listen to him all the time, like Dick Clark on weekends, you know. But anyway, so Joe Kamenkow came in, and he's like, so what are you going to do for the radio announcer? I said, well, we haven't decided fully yet. I said, I have an idea. And he goes, what about Cousin Brucie? And I said, that was my idea. And so he's like, well, call him. And so I have a friend who works at Sirius, and I called him and I said, hey, can you ask Cousin Brucie if he would like to be the voice of a Beatles pinball game? And so I got a message back saying, yeah, here's his number. He wants to do it. So I called him and I said, hey, we're coming out with this game. Here's what it's like. And I think you would be the perfect narrator for it. And he said, oh, yeah, I would love to do it, but I'm leaving in less than a week to go to Paris. And I said, oh, well, we got to have the game voice before then because we had to present it to Living Beatles and the Widows for approval. And so he's like, well, you know, when do you want to do it? And I said, I'll come to you. So I got on a plane and flew to New York two days later, and we were going to do it in the Sirius studio. But he's like, you know what? I don't have much time in there and I don't want to be rushed. I want to give you everything you want. And so how about you just come to my house? And I was like, okay. And he's got a full studio? No, I took my portable stuff with me. You know, have microphone, we'll travel. Yeah. So, yeah, he's like, I'll just be here at 10. So I showed up and he's like, yeah, let's not get right to work. He goes, I made some breakfast for you. And so he's like, let's just sit down and get to know each other before we record. And I was like, you know, this is just crazy. I mean, he's the best. I Forrest Gumped my way through life because I end up in these crazy situations. I'm like, we recorded and sat and talked for a while. He showed me his, he does some beautiful photography on his trips. And he's got this really cool jukebox and some other collectibles. And just, he's like, you know, when you come back to town with your wife, you know, let's all go to dinner. And then he's like, if you want me to do any events, you know, you just let me know. So when we had the unveiling at Modern Pinball, I said, hey, how about coming to this? You know, we'll send a car to get you and then I'll meet you there. And so he said, sure. And that was great having him see the game the first time and being there when he played it. He's like, I've been in a movie. I don't know if you know, he was the magician who cut Jennifer Grey in half in Dirty Dancing. And he's like, I've been in a movie, but never been in a pinball machine. This is great. So you suggested Cousin Brucie because think about it. That was a Beatlemania-type pinball machine, that era, that 64. Jerry, what if they came back to you and said, it's Yellow Submarine, the Beatles have found LSD, it's going to be something a little bit different, it's Abbey Road. I knew it was going to be Beatlemania before I reached out to them. I mean, that was already decided. Okay, but they're coming up. You don't even know this yet. I've got inside information. Stern is doing a new Beatles machine. It's the late 60s version. I mean, they're all long-haired, no more mop tops. They're letting George actually write and sing songs. Now who's going to voice it, Jerry? Wow. I don't know. I'd have to give that some thought. I just like to put me on the spot. I don't know. You know, that's, some people have said, why did you do that? Why didn't you do their whole career? And that's one of the things where somebody will say, oh, you should have done this. Why didn't you do this? Well, you work with a licensor, and they have what they're available to give you or what they want. All the licensors get final approval on their product. So Joe had Christopher Franchi do that art before the game was even pitched, and he took it to them and said, I want to make a Beatles pinball game. Here's what it'll look like. And so they were like, okay, we're interested. Write us a check, which he did. So they said, but no Beatles in it. You can't have any speaking from the Beatles. And so Joe told me that, and I was like, but it wouldn't make such a better game. And he goes, I know. And so he said, why don't you pull some clips, do what you think it should be, and I'll pitch it to them that way and say, here's what we think it should be, and it will make a better game, and maybe we can change their minds. So I did that. He went over and shipped the game over, went over, and once a year, John's widow and George's widow and Paul and Ringo get together to talk about licensing stuff. So they had the game in the room and they liked it and they were like, OK, here's what you can use. So I can use everything that I pulled because they didn't have the rights to that or whatever. So they were like, we will give you what we have that you can use. So that why you see the images you see in the game That why you hear what you hear in the game And so people were like well why didn you use the movie for this Or why didn you use all these tunes There a lot to licensing that you can control And you get what you get with some things. And so luckily, the Beatles stuff worked out. And I'm proud of that game. And Dean and I worked a lot of late nights until like midnight or 3 a.m. on Taco Bell food as we made that game. That was a funny one because I was working on Monsters at the same time, and I didn't want the two games to sound alike, and I had already decided on what some things would sound like on Monsters. So I was like, okay, let's make Drive My Car the orbits on Beatles so I can have beep-beep when you hit the switch. And then I said, let's make one song pop-bumper-oriented because I can do drums for that. So we got down to the bonus sequence, and I was like, man, I'm just stumped. And I kept giving Dean things to try. I was like, let's try this drum. Let's try maybe a cymbal or tambourine, something. And Greg Freres walked up. He's like, what are you working on? I said, I'm trying to get the right bonus sound for this. I just can't get it. And he goes, why don't you just use a single guitar strum for each one? I was like, okay, let's try that. So I emailed my friend Gary McTaggart here in the area, and I said, hey, can you just give me some single guitar strums? So he sent them back that night. We put them in and that's what it turned out to be. So I love those moments of collaboration where somebody will make something better. But yeah, Greg was just walking by. That's so funny because you can spend just as much time in the creative process thinking of something that is going to be so quickly, really a flyby in pinball time. But you'll spend just as much time as that one note versus something that, how's the spinner going to sound? Or what are the pop bumpers going to do? It's got to be perfection. And I always wondered with you, you know, you've done so much radio imaging. That had to help you big time with converting to pinball because radio imaging, for those that don't know, it's filling in the gaps. And by the way, I think you and I should finish this radio conversation with our radio voices. So let me re-ask that question. Okay, hold on, Jerry. I don't know if I do have a radio voice, but I don't. Oh, let's turn on the bullshit here. So you've done a lot of radio imaging, Jerry. And I was just wondering, you know, it's very, very similar to pinball. and you got to extend that last good morning everybody oh i hate that kind of radio it drives me nuts and you know that's boss jock radio from like the late 60s 70s and and it's so funny you say that because there's a bunch of those variety stations and the one weekend announcer just is in love with his voice every time he turns on the microphone and just he when he backsells a song it's just so so full but you know we're gonna tickle you pink with some floyd then go deep with purple this is rock radio it just drives me nuts i'm like oh stop this cornball crowd but you know i mean that that was that was i mean cousin brucey was a lot more energetic if you watch some of those videos from the 60s i mean that's just that's what they did you know yeah yeah i've always been about substance not style yeah i was never you know i care about what you're saying versus how you're saying it right i was not as i said i forest gumped my way into a lot of things I ended up on morning radio in Houston. And I mean, that's a big deal when you're 25 and you're the morning guy for the fourth largest city in the U.S. And but I was not I was not great. Like, I mean, I was not a Howard Stern or I knew that I was never going to be in New York or L.A. I got a job offer right around the time I took the Houston room to do mornings in Washington, D.C. And I was like, no, I'm a native Texan. I took this job. I'm going to stay here, which I was glad I did. But as Clint Eastwood said in one of those movies, I forget which one, a man's got to know his limitations. Yes, we do. Yes, we do. But I was saying about radio imaging, very similar to pinball, you're filling in those gaps. Right. Well, imaging, like, you know, it's a big responsibility when the station says, okay, you decide how our overall station sounds. So, yeah, that played a big role in how I approached pinball stuff, because whether it's country or rock or soft AC, adult contemporary, I had to say, OK, what should this radio station sound like? And all those little things that go between the records or contests and promotions, I made all those. And that's what I did. Eventually, I got tired of being on the radio. I loved it. I didn't like the pressure, especially being in a morning drive, because, you know, ratings, it's all about ratings. and one bad ratings book or one focus group or a format change, you could be the top of your game. It doesn't matter. You're gone. You're blown out the next time. So I get why you made the switch. You want to be your own boss. Well, yeah, and I found I liked being in the production room better than being an on-air guy. And I did not enjoy – I mean, I'm kind of a – I really like being in my little room with no windows. So the jail cell. Being on the air, you have to go out and do public events and remotes and meet people and shake hands I mean, I like going to pinball convention and meeting people, but I don't want to do that every weekend for a radio job. And so being in the production studio, I found was better for me. And so when I moved to Seattle in 2003, I decided just to work for myself. I'd always had voice work and production work on the side. And I just thought, well, I'm going to try it. And I had a successful, you know, first year and it just continued. So I've been doing that since 2003. That is so funny that you say about going out in public and remotes and stuff, because at Expo, you came up to me and I was thrilled to see you and you introduced yourself. I knew who you were. And I'm ready to talk to you about pinball and sounds and everything. And within a second, you go, and this is Kevin O'Connor. And I'm like, oh, okay, I guess. So I was, it's great to talk to Kevin. I really wanted to talk to you as well. So, well, I'm glad we're finally getting to do this. I did not know that. Yeah, absolutely. But I did happen to have a KISS Translate, so it did work out very well. It's signed on my wall right now. How cool is that that he did both KISS games? And Gene Simmons asked for him to do the Stern KISS game. I mean, that's pretty cool. They're like, hey, we'd like to get that same guy. And they're like, well, happens to work for us. No kidding. Gene's never looked better. I mean, he's got muscles on muscles. That watch for it. I mean, it's pretty funny, but he does great work for sure. Kevin's a master, and you're fortunate to work with so many great people in the industry. And that's the thing. I mean, I love working on pinball and I love all the people I work with. But, you know, think about it coming in from my perspective. A few years earlier, I'm going through the line on Saturday afternoon, having them sign a million trans lights. And I come in just just the fact that they gave me a chance is a big deal to me because they didn't look at me like, oh, you're just a fan. You can't do this. and so the fact that I'm working with these guys who made the games we love, I mean, that's a thrill. It's still a thrill to walk through the factory at night when everybody's gone and go, man, I make pinball machines. How cool is that? It is extremely cool and a nice keepsake. We always talk about what we leave behind and legacies and whatnot. Boy, you've got a lot. I honestly did think about that, too, because when I did the voice work in a game in Mustang, Mustang, and David took that part and he put it in the loop for the multiball so it goes Mustang so I thought well this is at least something most of my life has been disposable stuff that I've made it's either live on the air set and gone or it runs for a few weeks and then it's gone but I thought well this is something you know my kids can say when I'm gone that's my dad in there yep the fact that I get to make these things and it's doing something that will last because I know I'm a fan of pinball games from 50 years ago. So maybe in 50 years, somebody will say, oh, that Jerry did some good work. Some great work, though, I will say, for sure. The licensing is obviously what everything is about. It's a staple at Stern. It is so important with the manufacturing. But I can only imagine, I'm thinking of you and your job, and you come up with all these different assets, some created, some you're supplied, whether it's Star Wars, you get from Batman 66, let's say, but you've got all these assets, and then you have to turn over to the licensor, and they have to, I assume, play the game. But some of those games are pretty deep. How do they get to hear all the sounds? How do they get to hear? You had 3,000-something for Batman. How do they get to hear all those sounds, play all the different modes and everything else to give the final approval? Well, I mean, they're given, hey, here's what the game does. Here's how to get there. And, you know, I'm not sure how. I will tell you, I was on the Columbia Pictures, which is now what, Sony. But in front of Dan Aykroyd has an office there. It's a big logo, Ghost Corps. And across from it are the Ghostbusters mobile and several other movie cars. And I looked in the window and there's a Ghostbusters pinball machine right there at the front desk of his office. And I was like, how cool is that? Nice. But I didn't really answer your question. How do they get to hear everything or see everything in a pinball game? They get a game and they check it out. And I mean, through the process, some of them will ask to hear the assets. I would have to send Lucas the music and speech calls we recorded and everything for them to approve. And sometimes they would say, no, take this triangle out of this song or remix this and use only this part. I mean, they were very specific. Sometimes they'll listen to the whole package. Another licensor will listen to the whole thing together and go, yeah, that sounds great. I mean, everybody's different in how they work, but just like all the programmers are different, what a joy to get to work with so many different personalities and people. And so, I mean, in the fact that I'm following the footsteps of such great people, I never take it lightly. I mean, look at the work Dan Forden did on Star Trek Next Generation and Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars, and then look at Granner's work on Twilight Zone and Lord of the Rings and all those Lawler games he did. And then, you know, David did three in a row, amazing work, Family Guy and Spider-Man and Pirates of the Caribbean and Brian Schmidt, all those great Data East games. I mean, I don't take it lightly the fact that they not only let me do it but accepted me and gave me a chance. I mean, it's really great. I mean, these guys have high expectations because they've been working with greatness for 30 years. And so I consider myself very fortunate. I mean, I've had three cool careers, you know, starting with radio and then imaging and voice work and then this. And I told my wife we were at Pinball Expo, and I had been there in 2004, and I ran into Steve Ritchie. It was so funny. I saw Steve Ritchie in the hall in 2004, and I was like, hey, I just got my Elvis Gold game yesterday. And his first response was, I can't believe you bought it. you never know what you're going to hear from steve um but so my wife and i walked in the in the stern room at expo in 2018 and i looked around and every game that stern had on display was a game that i did sound on and wow it was an oh and i wrote george and said thank you for giving me this opportunity this is a real oh wow moment and at the start of this interview you said you would do this for free so george is thanking you because wait till you see your next paycheck well as i said it's a lot of work it's fun work but it is a lot of work and i would assume the order of operations the designer is coming up with the play field then the art is applied to it and then the coding and then that where you come in with the sound because all that other stuff kind of has to be done before you get in there Is that correct Not necessarily the coding I mean I work usually nine months to a year on a game I work alongside the coder or game developer because I don't want to call them the wrong thing. So side by side, right? Yeah, because I get lots of feedback and great ideas from them. You know, Dwight, I'll come in with an idea of how I think something's going to be. And Dwight's like, well, I think this should be this. And we have kind of a good language together. I mean, he got so frustrated with me on Star Wars. He was like, I want this to have a thrum. And I gave him a sound, and he's like, no, not a whatever, not a thud, a thrum. So we still laugh about that. But we work well together. And, I mean, Lyman is such an artist. You know, he'll take stuff and just like a painting. You know, like, I'm going to put this here and see how that works. And it always works. You know, so I love interacting with them and it always makes the game better. It makes me better. You know, I mean, and Dwight, well, he will say, hey, is that your best work? And I'll go, let me let me listen to it again. And then and I'll go, OK, you're right. So they always make me better. So the coder, programmer, whatever they'd like to be called, they kind of have the say of where those sound assets go. But then there are other things, too, where you kind of come up with ideas. And I think of Deadpool multiball. Yeah, boy, Deadpool was a fun one. And that really, I mean, I knew George Gomez had worked for Marvin Glass and Associates. And I believe if I'm saying the right name of the business, I'm pretty sure that was the idea think tank. And so, you know, he worked with a bunch of people who got paid to have ideas. And so, I mean, this guy, he's so creative and he can draw every. You know, he draws everything that he thinks of, and it's great. But I hadn't gotten a chance to really work with him on all those little details. And Deadpool was my first chance to do that. And, man, I mean, talk about bringing a lot to the game. I delivered the Katana Rama multiball song. Yes. I thought it was so goofy, but it was so fun. And so he called me. He's like, that's hilarious. And I was like, okay, I didn't know how you would feel about it. He's like, no, no, let's make it. The funnier, the better, you know, keep it coming. And so a few days later, he called me and he's like, hey, I'm just driving home and let's make some songs with vocals. And I was like, OK. He's like, let's do a rap song, you know, like rattles the windows and a country song and a rock song. He goes just with him screaming like flippers, bats, you know, just all pinball stuff. And he said, let's make a you know, let's make a an R&B type song. I'm thinking like, you know, maybe shaft. And I said, okay, let me get to work on it with my guys. And so one Saturday morning I woke up and my voice was deeper than normal for some reason. And I had this rhythm track. And so I just sat down and started saying stuff that I thought sounded dirty, but it wasn't because it was pinball stuff. You know, like, hey, baby, I got six balls for you. You know, like Barry, I had Barry White in mind. Sure. And so I made it and I sent it to Tanya and George and I said, is there something here? And Tanya wrote back and said, is that you? And I said, yeah. And they're like, it's funny. But Tanya was like, it needs a saxophone. Got to have a saxophone. So I sent the rhythm track to my musical partner, Sean, and said, hey, can you give me a saxophone piece for this that I can just lay in where I want? And so he gave me the sax and a guitar part. And then I just took the track and mixed it all together. and I had had the background girl singing some repeat and Tanya was like, no, more of that. They need to repeat every, they had a repeating multiball. He's like, have them say everything back. So there's like layered female vocals with them repeating. I never would imagine that I would get to, cause I can't sing. So I never thought I'd be on a vinyl record, but George is like, let's make an album out of this. And you know, Vince Pontarelli did such great work on Monster Bash and he's still friends with George. And so George is like, Hey, let's get Vince to do some And then it's like, hey, let's get Tim Kittsrow to do the vampire. So it was so much fun. I mean, and there's so much stuff in that game. Another part of your legacy, Jerry, for sure. And I think of the games today and some of the new features that we're seeing. People can control the volume. You see players, competitive players, wear headphones, maybe not even hear the game. Or something that you can do on a lot of games. And I think of Elvira, House of Horrors, and those great video assets and all the sound that you put in there. You do a double flip and it's all gone. That must be heartbreaking for you. Well, my buddy Rod got his Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles LE Friday night. And I went over to see him and unbox it. And he had a few people over and they did that. They would like double flip and I was like, oh, you're missing all the great animation and sound. Don't do that. With that being said, I would imagine you, when you're coming up with these ideas, there's a rule in radio and there's a rule I think everybody goes by, keep it simple, stupid, right? So in this sense, maybe the quicker you can get that sound effect off, the better chance it will be heard as opposed to something that's grandiose and you just know that someone's going to double flip and it's gone. Well, I mean, you know, I got to do whatever the video directs me to do. I mean, like on the extra ball where they're screeching around the corner and firing balls, and the sound has to match the video. So, yeah, there's nothing really. If you blow it off, then you're just back into gameplay. One thing I have noticed, though, with COVID-19, when people are playing games at home, they're exploring the games a lot more than they ever have. So they're maybe playing a different way. So maybe they will get to be exposed to some of these great sounds and assets. Yeah, I mean, there's so much stuff in Elvira and Turtles, you know, The animation team did such a great job on Turtles and Black Knight. I mean, Joshua Clay and Chuck Ernst and the team. There's so many. I can't name them all, but Mike Kisvet and Tom Kisvet did some great voice work in Turtles. And they're just, you know, I knew they could do it. I did not know how great they would be because Dwight's like, hey, what about Mike and Tom? I was like, sure, let's record them. So Mike did Shredder and Krang is Tom. and Krang we sent to Nickelodeon, and they're like, yep, that's Krang. I mean, no changes. So that was fun getting to do all those voices and having those guys, and they helped write the script. I mean, they are big fans of comic books and stuff, so that team, Tom's on the animation team, and then Mike does programming. And so the fact that we have such talent in the building is amazing. And, of course, Marc Silk, who was on Pinball Profile earlier, he did all those great voices, and he enjoyed working with you. just as much too. So yeah, I met Mark. He said, uh, you know, I do voice work. Here's my, my demo card. And you know, I do a lot of this stuff and if I can ever be in a pinball machine, I would like to. And so Dwight, I know he had talked to Dwight too. And Dwight's like, well, we should try Mark out. So Mark auditioned for a lot of characters and ended up being a lot of characters because he was great at all of them. So yeah, I mean, I was looking forward to getting back over to Robert Englunds and visiting him. But who knows when that'll happen? Probably for a little while, unfortunately, but fingers crossed. That's the thing about the world today. I find news quite depressing, obviously. But if I avoid the news and all the feeds, I just go to your Facebook page and I can find out, oh, look, Charlie Daniels just died because Jerry's got a picture of him and Charlie and all these rock stars that you've met. You've met a few. Yeah. I started playing the drums when I was 12, I told my parents, I said, if you'll get me a set of drums, I know I can play them. And they thought I was crazy, but I would play along with records in my room. Turns out I could. And so my oldest brother is 17 years older than me and he was in radio. So I would go to visit him sometimes and he'd let me go to the radio station. And I was like, okay, well, I either want to be a drummer or maybe that radio thing. I don't know. And so I got to go to the recording studio when I was 14 and I learned that I would never be a studio drummer because I'm pretty good live, but I was not great with a click track and you know, I, you have to be perfect. And so I was like, okay, I better look into the radio thing. And so I got a job at my hometown station the week before I turned 16. I couldn't, I didn't have a driver's license yet, obviously. So my mom had to drive me to work the first week. And, uh, and then I was like, okay, I can do this radio thing. And I just, I met a lot of people. I, I got to tell you one story. Here's what a crazy, And my parents raised me to think if you work hard enough, you can do anything. And so I didn't think a thing about it. Like the radio station I was working for when I was 18 in high school, I'd work 6 in the morning until 8, go to school, and then work 3.30 to 6. But they were doing football coverage. And, you know, local high school football and college football is huge in Texas. And so I thought, man, I grew up watching Ernie Anderson or hearing Ernie Anderson on ABC. He was the voice, you know, MacGyver, that guy, you know. Yep. And I wanted, that's all I wanted to be. And so I thought, wow, it would be cool to have him do a football promo that we could use all football season. So I, being, you know, naive, call ABC in Los Angeles and I say, can I speak to Ernie Anderson? Not knowing that a lot of VO guys are not always there. And so they put me through to the audio booth and he answered. Wow. And so, you know, I was like, hey, I just was, like, interested in having you do a promo. And he's like, oh, yeah, babe. You know, call my agent Rita. Yeah. You know, it's just like but I just you know, I was kind of like never shy. And I just I ended up meeting people and having friendships. I mean, Hal Blaine, the drummer, was a cherished friend for 25 years. He passed away last year. And Greg Freres is also a drummer. And and I said to him in 2015, I said, hey, I just saw Hal. And I said, it sure would be cool to do some art and put it on T-shirts and stuff and sell it on a website. I said, would you do a piece of art? And Greg said, yeah, yeah, I would love it. Oh, I'm a huge Hal Blaine fan. So he finished it in 2016. And so I sent him a plane ticket and I said, okay, I'll meet you in Los Angeles and we're going to drive over to Palm Desert and show it to Hal and get him to sign some stuff. And so that was a great experience. But just like you said, met several people, met Charlie Daniels because when I was 12, they called it the R2D2 program. I don't remember what that was for. And it was an accelerated English class, and each student had to pick someone to interview, set it up, have the class organize questions from each class member. And so Devil Went Down to Georgia was huge, and I played it over and over and over. And so I contacted Charlie Daniels Management. They said yes, surprisingly, for a 12-year-old. I know. And so we did that, and I still have the cassette tape of the interview. I need to transfer it to digital and listen to it again. But he did the interview, sent everybody in the class an autographed picture, personalized. I mean, just what a great guy. And then he's like, you know, next time I'm around, call and, you know, I'll give you backstage passes, which I did. So I got to see him then. And then I saw him the next time he was through. But, yeah, just a great guy. I mean, so many nice people I've met. I mean, you know, Hal Blaine played on thousands of records and like the TV theme to Three's Company, you know, and Dallas and Scooby Doo. And I was writing with him one time in L.A. and we were listening to a Sunday morning Sinatra thing on the way to breakfast. And he's like, is that me playing drums on there? And I go, sounds like you. He goes, yeah, but it's hard to tell. I mean, I'm thinking, how am I friends with this guy? And then we went to his 90th birthday.