Episode 1036: "Kaneda Saves The TWIPYS & The Moment Greed Took Over Pinball"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·33m 1s·held·Dec 18, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Kaneda analyzes four-year pinball pricing inflation and critiques Twippies Award category cuts.

Summary

Kaneda discusses pricing inflation in pinball over the past four years, tracing how LE prices surged from ~$12,000 (2020) to $19,999 (2023), attributing the shift to a 'greed' moment starting with Stern's 2023 James Bond 60th Anniversary release. He also critiques the Twippies Awards for removing important categories like Best Artist, Best Animation, and Best Sound Design, argues these omissions were deliberate to affect voting outcomes, and praises Spooky Luke for exceptional customer service. He expresses frustration that passion-driven smaller manufacturers (Spooky, American Pinball) consistently outperform well-financed competitors.

Key Claims

Stern's Limited Edition pricing increased from ~$12,000 in 2020 to $19,999 in January 2023 (James Bond 60th Anniversary), representing a $1,000/year increase
high confidence · Kaneda systematically traces price history: TMNT 2020 (~$12K), Godzilla Elite Sept 2021 ($10.5K), James Bond 60th Jan 2023 ($19,999)
Stern officially priced James Bond 60th Anniversary at $19,999, not dealers as George Stern claims; Stern quickly removed the price from their website
high confidence · Kaneda states: 'It was on Stern's website. They quickly yanked it down.' Kaneda works in communications and disputes Stern's public claims
James Bond 60th Anniversary was the first LE ever priced at $19,999 and was a disappointing game with no real mechs and terrible artwork
high confidence · Kaneda: 'a game that is a single level game with no real mechs in it, terrible artwork, a ridiculous scoring reel' and 'one of the most disappointing LEs ever released'
The Twippies Awards removed Best Artist, Best Animation, and Best Sound categories, which Kaneda views as deliberate to affect voting and possibly related to a dispute with artist Christopher Franchi
medium confidence · Kaneda: 'maybe you had a little thing with Franchi and he upset you, but that doesn't give you the right' and notes they made him ineligible previously
Melvin (context: likely Stern's George Melvin) filed for exclusive patent rights to make a Blade Runner pinball machine after contact from Rutger Hauer's family following the actor's death in 2019
medium confidence · Kaneda: 'Melvin...filed for the exclusive rights or the patent to make a Blade Runner pinball machine...the family of Dutch actor Rutger Hauer came to him' (Note: Rutger Hauer was Dutch, which aligns with reference to 'Alice or one of the Dutch games')
Foo Fighters LE ($13,000 at 1,000 units) was the first LE ever priced at $13,000 and received great response with no blowback due to COVID-era mindset
high confidence · Kaneda: 'The first LE ever to be $13,000 at a thousand units was Foo Fighters...the response was great...there really wasn't much blowback'

Notable Quotes

“This is where the greed began. This is where the greed began. And because remember when Stern did this, this was also the first time ever, ever people were Stern made another version of an L.E. when they said they were never going to do that.”
Kaneda @ ~24:30 — Central thesis: Stern's decision to make multiple Elvira LE versions marked the turning point from value-conscious to greedy pricing strategy
“It's like they started to creep up. The next launch in September, Avengers, $9,199. So remember these games only had 500 LEs... Then the next game, you remember what it was? The most empty LE of all time. Led Zeppelin LE $9,199.”
Kaneda @ ~20:00 — Documents the systematic price increases and market saturation leading to unsold inventory (Led Zeppelin described as 'most empty LE of all time')
“There's more work that goes into what goes on that screen than what even goes into the design and layout of a game... A lot of games, if you turn off that screen and you played it, half of the experience is gone. We're not going to recognize that.”
Kaneda @ ~7:30 — Core argument for why Twippies category removals (Best Animation, Best Sound) are damaging to recognizing animators and sound designers whose work is critical to game experience
“This is it. This is it. This is the reason why everybody loves these dudes. I mean how do you not root for a company like this? Like they listen to all their customers. They freaking make you parts in real time.”
Kaneda @ ~13:00 — Demonstrates Spooky Pinball's customer service excellence as differentiator and explains why players are willing to support the company
“The days are long and the years are short. And when you look at pinball prices like in 2020 right that was just four years ago... in a two and a half year period of $4,000 increase in the price of a Stern L.E.”
Kaneda @ ~18:30 — Emotional framing of price inflation impact—four years feels short but represents massive ($4K) price increases
“Because nothing will ever replace passion and hard work and a drive to get it done right. When you've got all this money and you're going to survive whether or not you succeed or not, that is a recipe for mediocrity.”

Entities

Kanedaperson Spooky Lukeperson Jack Dangerperson Keith Elwinperson Christopher Franchiperson George SternpersonEric Minierperson

Signals

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market_signal: Stern LE prices increased from ~$12,000 (2020) to $19,999 (2023), representing ~$1,000/year increase over four-year period; James Bond 60th Anniversary (2023) now reselling at $13,500-$16,500 despite initial $19,999 ask
high · Kaneda systematically traces: TMNT ~$12K (May 2020), Avengers $9,199 (Sept 2020), Led Zeppelin $9,199 (2020), Godzilla Elite $10,500 (Sept 2021), Foo Fighters $13,000 (2023), James Bond 60th $19,999 (Jan 2023)
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product_concern: Kaneda argues Stern machines at $13,000+ price point lack build quality and aesthetic polish commensurate with cost; sculpts appear cheap despite high pricing
high · Kaneda: 'I still think when I look at a Stern machine...I don't see anywhere near a $13,000 item. The sculpts are not there. They still look cheap.'
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community_signal: Twippies Awards removed categories for Best Artist, Best Animation, Best Sound, and Best Designer; Kaneda argues these removals are deliberate to affect voting outcomes and possibly related to prior disputes
medium · Kaneda: 'I think the reason they're calling it Best Breakthrough...they want to give it to someone who's not new...just so they can get it' and speculates Franchi removal relates to prior conflict
~
sentiment_shift: Rising complaints about pinball prices creating market fatigue; players expressing inability to sustain hobby at current price levels ($45K for 3 JJP CEs requires $90K pre-tax income)
medium · Kaneda: 'It's either going to change or we're all going to have to make a lot more money to sustain all of this' and references James Bond LEs sitting unsold at lower prices
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Transcript

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0:00

Good morning everybody, welcome to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Isn't it crazy how a good song is actually just as good as a $15,000 pinball machine? We're going to talk about what's happening in the world of pinball as we all head to Christmas in just one week. Have any of you bought a pinball machine for Christmas? Have any of you seen how expensive the world has become? We're going to talk about what's going on. We're near the end of the year and this is a moment in Welcome to the Bladerunner Podcast. This is the first time in which I think everyone reflects on the year that came before us and what is ahead of us. Now look, there's a lot of rumored titles that we're looking at down the road. Stuff like Back to the Future, stuff like now Bladerunner. I want to give you a little bit of an update on this Bladerunner game, right? So Melvin, he filed for the exclusive rights or the patent to make a Bladerunner pinball machine. And yes, he did do that. Now what people don't know is all he did was file for the rights to make a Blade Runner game. The reason he did that, I believe the family of Dutch actor Rutger Hauer came to him and I guess maybe they saw Alice or one of the Dutch games at a show and they're just interested in making a game that will honor the movie that their relative was in because he passed away in 2019. Now that does not mean that you're going to get Blade Runner with Harrison Ford anytime soon because Harrison Ford is super expensive. But yes, absolutely. I think if you were to ask people would you rather have Blade Runner or John Wick, Blade Runner or Venom, Blade Runner or let's see Halloween or Looney Tunes or Ultraman, of course we'd rather have Blade Runner over Cuphead, Blade Runner over almost a lot of these new games. But we're reaching a point in pinball now where I think people are just getting tired of waiting for those amazing themes around the corner. Goonies is supposed to come out. I know we're excited about that. Harry Potter by Eric Minier. We got Matrix by Steve Ritchie. We got King Kong by Keith Elwin. Maybe Pokemon by Jack Danger. Lots of stuff, right? Lots of stuff in the rumor mill. Maybe Predator by the Pinball Brothers. And with all these themes I'm going to tell you a little funny story before I do this. I got a notification from Patreon yesterday that they are giving me the ability to give a discount on tiers for Kaneda's Pinball Podcast that you can lower the price for a limited time to enter Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Now what I don't do on this show and I hope you all appreciate this, what I don't do is I don't really follow the Patreon model. I don't offer different things for different tiers. I simply give everybody the best possible show I can do every single week and I don't hold back. I don't say like, well, if you spend $30 bucks you get this. If you spend $100 you get a polo shirt and some exclusive information. I'm going to share with you photos of Christopher Franchi's next game. No, I don't have those photos so don't ask me for them. I don't do that. I give everybody the best show possible and all I ask in return is that you give what you can give and that's it. I'm never raising my prices but I'm not going to reduce the $5 price. That's not going to happen. So I want to give a shout out and we used to do this, the Raise the Roof Club. I want to give a shout out to everyone who's raised the roof since December 1st and I'm here to tell you right now, out of 700 and something of you, I get it, it's an expensive time of year. There's been four members I want to give a shout out to. I want to give a shout out to SRT2H, S-R-E-T-O-O-H. They edited their pledge from $5 to $30. Thank you so much. A shout out to CMG996. They edited their pledge to 1450 Canadian. I think that's like $10 US. Danny Hughes, thank you so much for editing your pledge to $10. And I also want to thank Ted Hauser who edited his pledge to 15 bucks. So if you want to raise the roof people, that's all you got to do to get a great shout out from Kaneda. I really do appreciate it. On the next episode, I'll give a shout out to everybody in the 10, 50 and $30 club. You guys are going to get a shout Hi, Rich Kemp, David Welcome. Thanks, Fred.

8:48

It's not going to win game of the year, I still think he deserves an award for best layout and design because it is. It really is. And I would argue that game of the year is probably going to be right now as it stands, Jaws. Jaws will be game of the year. But they didn't do that. And I think they're going to do that because I've been talking to Jamie. And I've been talking to Colin and they know they need to do that. You gotta recognize the men and women who work really hard on these games. There's too much recognition happening right now as the Twippy stand. Too many categories for content creators. Too many categories for like mods. You don't need a a Twippy for mod that interacts with the ball And Ma that doesn't interact with the ball. That is absolutely ridiculous. That's like giving car awards. A car that turns left the best and car that turns right the best. Absolutely silly. And if they want to make the Twippies fun and engaging, you got to keep it on the games because people want to vote for those things first and foremost. When you start to get the stuff like best member of the pinball community, what are we doing now? Like that's like I think that's the most woke Award you could possibly give. Just do Best Pinball Podcaster, Best Pinball Streamer, Best Pinball Website, maybe Best Pinball News Outlet so Knapp's Arcade can get recognized and then move on. And then maybe Best New, right? Best New is fine, but just call it Best New. You know what they're calling it? Best Breakthrough. That's a little confusing. I work in communications for a living. You know what? I think the reason they're calling it Best Breakthrough to me doesn't mean Best New. It just means you broke through. Like you could have a breakthrough year and it not be your rookie year. I know it can stand for your first year, but it doesn't always mean that. And why make it confusing? Just Best New Podcaster. That's it. Best New Podcaster. And I think the reason they're calling it Best Breakthrough, you know why, because You know they want to give it to someone who's not new, who doesn't shake hands, and so you've made some ambiguous title now just so they can get it. I get it everybody. And the reason why you probably left out artist is maybe you had a little thing with Franchi and he upset you, but that doesn't give you the right. They started to slip down that slope the same way they made Kaneda ineligible like a year ago or you I'm going to be the one who said it was because of me. It was because of me. They weren't changing this. Nobody was saying anything about this because nobody pays attention to the twippies more than Kaneda because I do think it's a great moment to recognize all the hardworking men Kazu CN defubs by seening Ug.com Most people don't have access to that stuff, but they have access to artwork, their eyes work, they have access to music, their ears work, they have access to podcasts and streamers because they can just go on and listen to everything. Everything is out there. I want to give a huge shout out to Spooky Luke. Did you see what happened yesterday? If you didn't, you're not on my Patreon chat. You should be on the Patreon chat. So one of our guys on the chat, Jaeger, he's all over the chat every day. Like I wake up and it's Bond and it's Jaeger and it's Dave Sanders and it's a bunch of you guys, Donk, you know who you are. There's like 20 of you guys that don't stop talking. There's Robert and Europe. I mean you guys just keep going. I love it. I wake up and I'm never alone because that thing is going and I can jump in and just say, hey guys, Guns N' Roses is great. And you're like, shut up Kaneda. The game is four years old and you're not wrong. Well, Jaeger had an issue with one of his spooky machines. I believe it was the TNA Speaker Grill. It wasn't fitting right. There was a little bit of a gap and clearly when it was machine cut, it was a little bit off, just a little bit off. And he was doing all this stuff to try to solve the problem. I believe this is what happened and Spooky Luke is like, dude, I'll just cut you a new one right now and make it a little bit bigger and fill the gap. As I'm reading this chat, like a few minutes later, Spooky Luke shows a picture of the new speaker grills he just cut for this guy live in real time on Kaneda's Pinball Podcast Patreon chat and I'm like this is it. This is it. This is the reason why everybody loves these dudes. I mean how do you not root for a company like this? Like they listen to all their customers. They freaking make you parts in real time. You can't even get half these companies on the horn and here we are. Oh man the moment these guys, I mean it, the moment these guys I'm buying499 of them. The moment they make a theme I really want, I'm in on it. I just want to support these guys. I feel like a lot of people now, Spooky Pinball, we want to give you our money. We just need a theme that indicates that we've been laid in the last 20 years. If you can do that for us, I mean it, if you can do that for us, if you can make me a theme I'm going to open up a theme that indicates I've had sexual relations with a woman and know that theme is not Evil Dead, it's not Looney Tunes, it's not Halloween. Give me something that says, hey, this is a cool dude. He grew up normally. He grew up normally. Like he was in the cars, he was in the women, he was in the action movies. What men of my age grew up who actually developed into sexually active beings. I know they know this. I know they know this. And one day they're going to deliver and I'm going to open up a theme that indicates I've had sexual relations with a woman. I'm going to go ahead and get my wallet. Alright, so here's the thing too. I was just thinking about, I was just thinking about something as I was looking on Pinside and I saw this like James Bond new in box LE for $9,995. I mean that's the new thing people. There's these games and they're there. You know they're there. These LEs that were once $13,000 are sitting in a box somewhere and everybody with an I'm going to be talking about the new Unbox Unmolested game. And I just started thinking about like how long has this really been going on? Right? How long have we really been taking these hits? And when you look at the dates, you start to realize that it hasn't been as long as we think, but it's been painful. It kind of like having kids Like the days are long and the years are short And when you look at pinball you know when you look at pinball prices like in 2020 right that was just four years ago That when Guns and Roses came out That when Guns and Roses won game of the year And GNRCE was 12 If you look at 2020 four years ago we all can remember that What was the price of an LE You know four years ago the price of an LE we had Ninja Turtles and it was That is what Ninja Turtles was in May And then Stern started to do what Stern does It's like they started to creep up. The next launch in September, Avengers, $9,199. I see what you did there Stern. You added $100. Okay, all right, all right, I see. So remember these games only had 500 LEs. Now Ninja Turtles was not hard to get the LE of, neither was Avengers. Then the next game, you remember what it was? The most empty LE of all time. Led Zeppelin LE $9,199. All right. So then we head into 2021. Mandalorian kept the price the same $9,199. They did up the amount of Mandos. I forgot about this. I'm going to start to make more. All right, then they do the big jump, right? They got the big game, the big designer, the big monster, Godzilla, Ellie, a thousand of them. Wow. This is the first time ever. This is a milestone. This is the first time ever Stern made a thousand Ellie's. They had never made a thousand Ellie's before. Even when they made Star Wars back in the day, the Steve Ritchie abomination to Star Wars, it was only like 800 units. So okay, so we got a thousand Godzillas and then they took the price up again and they didn't just get a little bit sneaky here people. It went from $9,200 all the way up to $10,500, a big leap in September three years ago. It was just like three years ago they did this. Alright, but it was Godzilla, right? It was like if you're ever gonna pick a game to jump the price up and justify it, Godzilla, not a bad game to do it on. Okay, then this is where the greed happens. And I mean it. It only takes one feeding frenzy moment to think you can apply that to everything. We saw it with Jersey Jack and Guns N' Roses CE, right? All the moves that Jersey Jack made after GNR were reflective of the feeding frenzy The problem is they didn't have a game as good as GNR since GNR, and then you start to raise prices on products that don't deliver on the same level. So what happened next at Stern Pinball remember this? I remember it. They then released the 40th anniversary of Elvira, and remember what they did on that game when everything was hot, right? You couldn't keep anything in stock. It was called for price. They didn't even have the guts to tell us what they thought the game was worth. They let the dealers set the price. And there are many dealers out there that charged and got $25,000 for Elvira 40th Anniversary Editions. I'm going to go on Pinside Marketplace right now. I'm going to go on Pinside right now and tell you what you can get an Elvira 40th for. Here's one new in box. New in box, it hasn't even been opened for $15,995. An opened one is $14,800. Another one new in box for $16,000. Another one open for $16,000 or best offer. Another open one for $15,000. So just looking at that game, most people when they got into it spent $20,000. So but this is where the greed began. This is where the greed began. And because remember when Stern did this, this was also the first time ever, ever people were Stern made another version of an L.E. when they said they were never going to do that. Remember before the 40th, Elvira already had in L.E. a signature edition game that people spent a lot of money on that was very limited. You know, they started to move the goalposts. And then we get to 2023, the period in which greed takes over. I know COVID is going on. I know the world's gone a little crazy. But this is where I think we're going to look back years from now and wonder where the beginnings of the pinball market collapse begin. Where did the greed really take over? And it was in 2023, January of 2023. Nothing like starting a new year. I'm here by releasing a 60th anniversary of James Bond, a game that is a single level game with no real mechs in it, terrible artwork, a ridiculous scoring reel that makes no sense, and they made 500 of them and they priced them at $19,999. And even to this day, every time I sit down with George, he says, we didn't price it, the dealers did. That's not truthful. It was on Stern's website. They quickly yanked it down. And if you look at this game now, let's see, one just sold for $12.50. One's in a box for $16.30. Another open for $16.50, $13.50. Here's the thing about this game is like, how are you trying to sell one for $16.50 when there's one right next to it for $13.50? And that's it, this delusion. And this game is not that good. It really is not that good. It was one of the most dance The first LE ever to be $13,000 at a thousand units was Foo Fighters. Now I was there when FooFighter LE came out and the response was great. It was Jack Danger's first game. We love Jack. They nailed it. The game is great. The animations were incredible. And again, there really wasn't much blowback. And I think a lot of this had to do with the surround sound effect of what was happening in the world. No Cove, it was hitting. We all were like in a weird mindset. We are witnessing all this stuff happening culturally because I think the context of how a pinball company can make a move in just a few years. And remember, now we're talking. These games are $4000 more in 2023 than they were in 2020 in a two and a half year period of $4000 increase in the price of a Stern L.E.. Shuk Fuk Hayek, Thank you for watching. I hope you enjoyed this video. If you did, please subscribe to my YouTube channel, and I'll see you in the next one. Bye! Timeается.com, and check out our website, www.t белue�들ue Otto.com, or www. Phantom racing.WPPR.com. So Steven I having so much fun with your presentation today TiX Story that A fan wrote damaging marriage N Knappacer wanted to invite me to one piece of text you are prevented with Doctor Abel doctor at D Necrop drama pat deliberation Hey, guys! We're back with another episode of the Winner's Guide. We're going to take a look at the game that came out just a little over a year and a half ago. A little bit less than two years ago. And now you're losing $3,000 or more on every single one. And then, after that, right? How'd they follow up Foo Fighters? Venom LE, $13,000. That game is worth about like $9,000 maybe $8,500 opened up. Okay? Venom. And then they got greedy again. They re-ran Jurassic Park LEs. More Jurassic Park LEs. Hello everybody and welcome to one of my best content. Godzilla Anniversary Ready to Go as Another LE for $13,000. They were just going to keep doing this, you know, and that concludes 2023. So the last year for Stern Pinball, you had Jaws, right? Keith Elwin game pretty successful for them. I would argue pretty successful game for them. You can't find a Jaws LE. Those games are going to hold value nicely. But again, it's like Keith Elwin. Unless we do a Keith Elwin game or we do a remake or an anniversary game, We've got nothing! Like nothing else is popping! John Wick was after Jaws, that flop, those games are worth nothing now. Then you brought out Godzilla Black and White Premium, you know they wanted that to be a $13,000 anniversary game. Then you've got the Costco Jurassicparkhome for $5,000. And this part makes no sense. The Jurassicparkhome at Costco is $5,000, but if you buy it on the Stern website, it's $6,000. It's almost like they're just doing I'm doing that on purpose because they're trying to drive people to Costco so they feel like they're getting a deal. And then we have X-Men LE. They start to pull back the number of LEs, 811 at 13,000. We know what's been going on with that game. And then we finally get back to 500 again. Oh, it's exhausting, right? And this is always what fascinates me about pinball people is when you go back and you look at the actual dates and you look at the numbers and you look at the The JerseyJack platform is the nicest looking pinball machine in the history of pinball. Tim topsliamoid weeds.com So, we're gonna see that in 2025. I think that's why 2025 is very exciting. You know, it's interesting when you think about Elwyn, and can he keep doing it? Can he keep doing it? Put their sandbags. You just might get it the. Ready. In the toys and Mechs department, I mean that because there's only so much you can do with layout. There really is. Like you really need to get more creative with the mechs and the toys and the world under glass. And I still think when I look at a Stern machine, I mean this. I don't see anywhere near a $13,000 item. The sculpts are not there. They still look cheap. I mean that. Like when I look down at Jaws, it just looks so cheap. And even when you Look over to avatar even though the damn thing is empty it still just looks so much nicer and again if Stern wants to charge this much it just should look better and I think a lot of these companies have become lazy and they're just like relying on the mod community to fill in the stuff that they don't want to do and it's not the way it should be so everybody you know as we get to the end of this year just remember it hasn't been that long just like four Now, if you think about it like that, Stern has increased the price of their LEs $1,000 a year over the last four years. They doubled the amount of games, Jersey Jack games. Now, three Jersey Jack CEs will set you back $45,000. You have to make $90,000 basically before It's either going to change or we're all going to have to make a lot more money to sustain all of this. I love pinball. You know why I love this hobby? Because the majority of these companies don't even need to be successful. Someday 1-0 I'm going to be talking about the top games in pinball that are still dominated by the companies that had to make great pinball. The companies that have all the money, the companies that have been financed by other things like CGC and JJP, you know, an American pinball with Ametron financing them, there's There's a reason why they're not at the top. Because nothing will ever replace passion and hard work and a drive to get it done right. When you've got all this money and you're going to survive whether or not you succeed or not, that is a recipe for mediocrity. And that's not the kind of environment that cranks out the best pinball. And I'm glad to see that our hobby still, and hopefully the trippies will too, still will recognize and reward those who are Those who put the most passion in and those who have the most heart and soul in our beloved hobby. Everybody have a great Wednesday. I'll talk to you soon.