Welcome Welcome everybody to the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. I nearly choked on that. It's been so long. My name's Martin. And my name's Ryan C. Good for you to be choking on it still after all this long money. That was the weekly thing, just choking on it all week long. Choking every week. How are you, man? I'm good. I'm good. I feel like this is the year that I've talked to you the least. It's true. Really looking forward to catching up with you at Hashman's Christmas party. Yep. If anyone doesn't know, there's a guy called Dave. His nickname is Hashman. He streams on a Twitch channel called Shit Pinball because he's very shit at pinball, him and his lovely partner, Ray. And he employs three people at his business, but he always just wants to have the best kind of Christmas work party. So more and more people get invited to his party every year. And I think this year there was, I don't know, I think 70 or 80 people at his house. And it was great. But I arrived while you were leaving. Correct. And because I normally get there late. But my life is very different these days in that I obviously, you know, work a bit. But I start early and I end early. so I had worked on that Saturday and just by the time it was about, I don't know, it was like even like 8.30, it wasn't even late, I was just like, you know what, I just got to go home. I'm just tired. 2022 was a big year. Yeah, I'm ready for a break, I'm ready for a holiday, I'm ready for something, I'm ready for like just the commitments of life as an adult to just pause for two weeks as it does. you know that period between Christmas and New Year's and you just don't know what day it is and you don't give a fuck yeah yeah yeah yeah I love that it's my favourite time of the year where I'm like is it Wednesday is it Saturday I don't have any responsibilities and I love it which was effectively my 2020 that was the year of COVID starting you know it all sort of came crashing down at the same time it was the end of 2019 I quit my job and then quit the podcast at the same time. You're like, fuck this. I kind of quit life. I did. I kind of just went, well, not like, I didn't neck myself, obviously. Oh, Jesus Christ. I'm still here. This went dark very quickly. But I, I wanted to end it all. That obviously didn't sound any better. But I just, I just wanted to get off. Oh, what's happening to me? Shut up. Ryan, it's you. It's like, I can't help it. There's always a double on top. I do have my webcam on and I am topless, so I understand. There you go. I just needed a massive change in my life and that's what happened. And so 2020 was, I was going to bed at like four or five o'clock in the morning every night and getting up whenever I liked. Not any time, whenever I liked. It could have been midday. It could have been two in the afternoon. It could have been nine in the morning. It didn't matter because it just didn't matter. And I fucking enjoyed it. I was off work for a while. No one could have you done that for, though, because that's what everyone desires. And then people say, like, ah, you have to have a purpose and you have to have a thing because, no? Well, yes and no. But don't forget that in 2020, when I wasn't working, I spent that year designing a game for Haggis. So I did have purpose. Designing Fathom or designing the next or something in the future? Something in the future. Okay. so it was it was my my resume i guess i mean you know i'd already been i guess doing some consulting with haggis anyway uh with with greg on some of the rules and choreography and also demo on some of the design ideas not not anything major but i still had been you know shoving my opinion down their throats so this was just a natural how fucking horny are you right i'm not horny i'm fucking drunk you know doesn't go hand in hand no it doesn't no there's another one this week i've gone to i think three christmas parties um and one of them was my my girlfriend's Christmas party money and and she works in HR and I know you've probably got some of these stories because I know in your your previous job you weren't necessarily in HR but you had a managerial role so you probably had to have a lot of HR issues correct yep all the time but two yeah there were two people there that were very senior and they were talking about their their previous jobs and they actually they did mention where they were where they worked um but they were kind of head of HR, these two people, at different places, and it was the end of the night and they were telling their stories like, this is the most fucked up thing that happened in my previous, in all of my work at, in HR over the years. Would you like to hear those two stories really quickly? Of course I would. I think we all want to hear these stories. Alright, rate them, rate them compared to your stories out of ten, not in hilarity, just like how nice and happy they are. So, one of them was there was a manager at a very large retail chain in Australia. And the manager walked into work one day at 8.45 and told everyone that he's got very important managerial stuff to do and he's going to lock himself in his office. And please don't annoy him. Don't come to me unless it's like life or death. I'm in work mode today. and apparently he went into the room and didn't leave until five o'clock. He like bought his own lunch and everything. The next day, the HR person got pinged for an excessive amount of porn being watched on the computer. And this is a very large company so they have policies and procedures so they have to like print out like, here's the ping, like this is a site that the person shouldn't have been on and this is how long they were on the website. and they printed it out on a piece of paper so that it's kind of like they go to the person and say here's the proof 74 porn videos Marty over the 7 and a half hour work day his guy was married and I don't know if he wasn't allowed to watch porn at home but he sat there and browsed 74 different porn videos and then got fired okay that's one of them okay okay am i allowed to comment now sure okay 74 videos you know i mean you've been to porn hub they only go for about you know five minutes uh well i hey did you i i got so bored the other day and someone linked me to it the porn hub like trends of the year and they go into so much detail about people's porn watching trends and the average time on the website is very like from country to country is is like you know like eight and a half minutes to like nine and a half minutes like that's it's it's it's literally like people just there to just like get it off get it and they close they the shame move it on move it on clear your browser history and away you go i could i couldn't believe how like the the it it wasn't like that variable like everyone's just there for us just yeah um yeah five minutes okay so that's that story number one story number two story number two uh oh i'm struggling to remember the finer details of the story but it was it was i think it was the janitor of the like or someone who cleans the office um approached this manager, like, person in HR, and said, hey, I stumbled across this porn video on Pornhub, and I'm pretty sure it takes place in, like, that office over there. And the manager's like, okay, let me have a look. And it was an employee of the company, not censored, like, not like I'm wearing a mask or, like, blurring out my head, like literally just like hey my name is ryan i i'm here masturbating onto the boss's with the company logo in the background and it was sitting there on porn hub for six months before someone stumbled across it and and there's like there's no expert there's no like that's not me it's it was the it was the person it was employee of the company and that was their thing that they liked to do is just, I don't know, and they had to get fired. It was just... The only issue is that the logo's there. They're like, yeah, for the rest of it, we think you did well. You did well. Thank you for cleaning up. But we do need prior approval if you're going to use the company logo. There's style guides and brand guides. I mean, the chances of someone finding some random video. I'm not sure how popular those videos are, but I think it could have been there forever. But it wasn't. Yeah. I don't know whether I'm really going to go into it too much, but what's really interesting about those stories is that you're hearing about somebody else's stories, right? Yes. I have got so many like that where I am the person that's had to deal with it. You're the one cleaning up the jizz. I am the one. Just, just... Give me one, Marty. Come on. Oh, by the way, this podcast is not for kids. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of pressure. Okay. One of my favorite stories is where we... You know, I used to work for a sales and marketing company, and we had, in our sales division, we had... You know, people working at a call centre, but also people out in the field knocking on people's homes, right? Trying to sell them stuff. I don't want to get in trouble for it. And we did get this complaint once from a potential customer or whatever, rang up and said, one of your sales reps came to my property and pissed in my garden. And we're like, oh, sorry. did you see what he looked like? They said, yeah, we saw her and she took a dump in our garden. Did it happen? That's a true story. Oh, no. Have you ever had someone knock on your door, Marty, in a hurry and be like i need to use your toilet no okay it happened it happened to me once um i didn't answer the door it was my my ex and she and the person just was like i need to use i mean i you know like you pretty much couldn't say no rushed into the toilet like we heard it all it was like loud and and then just we just left the front door open and she just let herself out and we didn't go into the room it was the like the guest bathroom for three days we were having arguments like serious arguments about who should be checking it i'm like you let the person in and they're like yes but like you you would have let the person in i put it up to a facebook vote this is very very early on into facebook days where people posted personal stuff versus just memes and and random stories and then everyone said that that they should my partner should to do it and it was yeah it was bad it was it was a number three oh right okay it was yeah so just If someone knocks on your door, I'd rather... It's a blessing that somebody shits on your front lawn. It's better than all over your wall, trust me. So, pinball, Ryan. Yeah, it's a pinball podcast, right? I don't know. Scooby-Doo. James Bond. We did get criticism from last year's podcast that we didn't talk enough about pinball. Ah, okay. Yeah, pinball. It's good. It's growing. And Whoppers are great. and the industry is just great. It's so different, Marty, from when we started. Like the industry I was thinking about the other day. When we started podcasting, there was really no one that was, how about this, there was like a bunch of insiders in Pimble. I feel like it was very much a boys club. And there was the outsiders that were really passionate about Pimble. You know, the Zach Sharps and the Keith Owens and all these people that were just obsessed with Pimble. But on the outside, and now we have a lot of people, like yourself, Marty, on the inside. And it's great. It's a great thing for pinball, I think. No, it's shit. No, I agree with you. My thoughts were going to... And if this is really not interesting, Ryan, just either shut me down or you, listener, just turn off the podcast right now if you find this boring. But I'm curious to know what makes them successful because just because you're passionate about pinball doesn't mean you're compatible being a pinball designer or a rules designer or a coder or whatever. You know what I mean? Or that you can fit in with Stern. Yeah. Because I'd also imagine that there are a lot, a lot of pinball people out there that have tried to get in there and have been rejected. Yeah, definitely. I don't think that being passionate about pinball is a success factor to starting your own company or you need the whole package. You need people and support around you that know how to make things and everything. I'm just saying if I had an option of someone like Keith Elwin who has lived and breathed pinball their entire life and has probably had many, many dreams about pinball and fantasized about ramps and rules and spinners and analyzed imbalances in pinball rules, and shot geometry versus someone like Mike from Homepin who clearly liked pinball at one stage but is more of a drink beer at the bar and have a few games with your mates. That's passion in a different way about pinball and I don't think anyone can deny someone like him is passionate about pinball, but there's a difference to me in how that relates to the manufacturing or design of a playful wool set. Yeah, I know what you mean. This stuff has got to consume you, and you've got to be somebody that allows it to consume you. You know what I mean? So you've got to really be obsessed with it in a healthy way because the amount of thought... This is from my own personal experience, and I'm not saying I'm like, certainly I'm not saying I'm in the same league as other designers or whatever, and I haven't been doing it as long. But from my point of view, I mean, I used to dream every night when I was going through the rules design process or, you know, in 2020 when I was designing the game. It wasn't just, you know, 15, 16 hours a day that I was working on it. And as soon as I went to sleep, I was dreaming about it as well, which was good. A lot of creative things came out of that. But that's the level of obsession that I think you need to be able to put out a great product because pinball needs to be magic. I've mentioned this a number of times on Fun Around that the whole idea of it is how do you get somebody to want to hit the start button again, either by putting money in or if it's free play, just the start button. And it's a magic formula. and I think you really need to be obsessed and consumed with pinball to understand that magic and I think that's what the example you're giving is why Mike from Homepin can, you know, there's a game there. It's got flippers and it's got ramps and it's got lights but there's no magic. It's just, it's by numbers. Yeah. Dragging and dropping pop-ups onto playfields. That's my favourite quote from our podcast, I think. back in the day, if you remember that one. Is that what he said? No, it was Joe Kamikow, I think, talking about how easy and quick play field design can be. One thing I can tell you right now, categorically, is our best mate in pinball, Robert Mueller, no wonder people just absolutely caned him for saying pinball is easy. it's it was just a it was offensive i think and b so misguided just just completely the wrong thing to say and completely incorrect because and this is where you know i'm this isn't going to be a big like, you know, Haggis is amazing. But we've been through a lot of challenges and it's the tenacity and it's the ability to push through those problems and not give up that makes it successful. I thought it was stealing money from grannies that makes people successful. Oh, God. Did it fall apart? Did we talk about this last? No, it doesn't really matter. I'm still in complete shock of like how that all unfolded and i haven't been keeping up to date with with that much of of you know the updates but i think we talked about it uh or talked about when all these companies were kind of starting up um and you know there was highway pinball and there was and we were saying well like how like all these i don't think all these companies are going to exist um forever so how does it how does it work like what happens when they can't make pinball machines anymore um and you know when highway pinball kind of collapsed like i i didn't think that people would be getting the aliens um but they are and then when the big wabowski stuff happened i was like well that's it everyone lost their money but lo and behold that's that's happening there was that other company who hired dirty donnie i can't remember what they they've made that symmetrical pinball machine. Oh, yeah, the Suncoast? Suncoast pinball, yeah. I'm not sure if people were left behind dry or if they just kind of realised it very early on they can't afford to do all this stuff. Cosmic Carnival? Yes, that's it. Yeah, I flipped it. Yeah, I flipped it at TPF. It wasn't, do you know what? It wasn't terrible. People that ended up playing a more advanced version of it said it wasn't great. Do you know what? One of the criticisms that people said is that when the ball goes around the ramps, you can see the ramps swaying left and right because they're just so flimsy. It wasn't mountain-y. But, you know, Batman 66 had ramps that moved as well. So, I don't know. Do you know what I played at TPF, Marty? What's that? Kingpin. I played that at TPF too. Where the fuck is Kingpin? What happened to Kingpin? No, I know. And because they were going to do the Pinball Circus as well. This was, what are they called, Circus Maximus? Was that the company? They were going to make, I mean, again, this is what I say. Making pinball is hard. Here are some of the things that we all know. Making a prototype game is vastly different to setting up a production and manufacturing facility to make games ongoing. completely different disciplines. Don't you... No. I'm not saying anyone can make a prototype, but more people can make a prototype than they can set up a pinball manufacturing company. Yeah. I'm not saying anything that's too crazy out there for you. Well, so then how do you think the other companies are going? Like Scooby-Doo, you know, announced a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. So, and I mentioned this on Final Round that I found it quite, I don't know, I was taken aback when Scooby-Doo was announced and that there was so much negativity towards Spooky. and I really probably shouldn't have been that surprised but I guess I just don't follow social media that much and they used to be the darlings of the pinball world and then to have all this negativity and really it's off the back of really Halloween and Ultraman which wasn't received all that well. I think it's weird because I think people not liking a game that they bought kind of with minimal knowledge compounded with them trying to sell it secondhand or before they get it and losing, well, not losing, but their assets depreciating one or two or $3,000. That's the big stinger for it. I mean, I think Toy Story hasn't been super well received as well, but I don't think people think it's a horrible game. It's just not the game that people imagined in their heads when they heard the rumours of Toy Story coming out. And people are kind of losing a bit of money for that, but it's not to the level of Halloween and Ultraman. And I think people just, I don't know, Spooky got a good run for a while of not being able to do anything wrong and getting a lot of support. Back when people used to stern make one mistake, they would be absolutely crucified. and yeah, Spooky could make lots of mistakes and it was okay but I think their run kind of ran out a little bit when there's a bunch of people that left the company and people kind of just said, well, okay, who's making these games? Who's coding these games? What's the roadmap here? Yeah, so my understanding now is really that Charlie Emery has stepped away and really it's his son and Spooky Luke that are running the company and designing the games. And my understanding is Spooky Luke is somehow related, like, is he... Son-in-law or something? Yeah. So it's a family business. I mean, it's always, you know, like advertised as a family business, but it kind of cements that when people that were there for a while or whatnot depart the company and then it's even more family now. I like them at Spooky. There you go. I'm prefacing them by saying I think they're nice people. But I think the main difference is that there was something, there is something about Charlie that's really endearing. You just want him to succeed because he is just such a nice person. Like he's just the loveliest, warmest, nicest person. With him not now being the face of the company, I just don't think you've got that same level of warmth. Is that too harsh for me to say that? I haven't, unfortunately. I know there's a lot of podcasts where I think Bug and possibly Luke have been on in the last couple of weeks, and I haven't listened to it. My last recollection of Bug was him being a little kid on the podcast and whatnot, but I know he's all grown up now. So I couldn't confirm or deny it, but yeah, I mean, Charlie's a likeable guy, and he's the face of the company, just like Jack Guarnieri was. Yep, yep. Say what you will about him, but he's very likeable and very, you know, very endearing and people put a lot of stuff in that Yeah So overall how do you think pinball is going Competition pinball buying pinball machines No, no one gives a shit. Well, I mean, it all feeds from manufacturers, right? Yeah. If they're not pumping in new games, then I don't think there's going to be as much enthusiasm. There's not going to be... Well, there might be the tournaments, But I really think that the companies that are bringing new games out are partially responsible for the enthusiasm overall. And I'm just keen to get your thoughts on how you feel they're all going. Except for Haggis, don't talk about us. I mean, it's hard not to bring it back to the prices and how fucked everything is in Australia at the moment. because I can't objectively say like, oh yeah, like James Bond came out and it looks great and this and that. Well, I mean like it doesn't look that great because the code isn't there and it's super unfinished, but it's like almost unbuyable in Australia. Like the limited edition pinball machine, I think Rush Alley was around $16,500 Australian dollars. Godzilla was about I think $15,500 Australian dollars. So there was a jump there. And then Bond wasn't $17,500 or $18,500 or $19,500. It was $20,650, some fucking shit like that. And it was just like, whoa. Like, it really, when they edge it, like, $500 or $1,000 at a time, your brain is like, okay, just a little bit more. Like, I'm an idiot, but, like, I'm just going to spend a little bit more. But when it's like a, you know, $4,000 jump, it was a real big point for me to be like, this is fucked like this is what like if i buy this i feel like i'm an idiot and um because and i know people will be like well if you like it you know it doesn't really matter how much it costs and blah blah it's a it's a lot of money and i i just feel like um certain pinball machines like toy story and bond are not going to be worth as much as as they were sold and prices have to come down i know there's i know there's there's covert and there's you know shortages of everything and everything's still hard and it's going to be hard for a while and the australian dollar is in the toilet um i know all those things but that that doesn't mean like okay it's okay because of all those things i'm going to i'm going to buy it if i'm signing a pinball machine um i i can't spend eleven and a half thousand dollars at the moment on unless i unless i just get a hundred percent of all the takings um it's not worth it i can't i can't do it anymore okay but bond coming out of twenty thousand dollars did it make you angry no no i i hundred percent understand why it happened like i i understand like we we the company that i work for we raise prices by like thirty percent because all the employees want to get paid thirty percent more or they were going going to go and everyone in our industry got like not held to ransom by employees but like you either pay the people what they want and like or you you're not in business anymore so i 100% understands why the prices had to go up i'm not angry um but i'm i'm not like surprised that people at companies are potentially selling less of pinball machines there's no way that toy story sold anywhere near as much as Guns N' Roses or Willy Wonka. Well, look, again, I think it's possibly a different story, but Scooby-Doo didn't sell out as quickly as Halloween and Ultraman did. In fact, I think it was considerably longer, and I also believe some of the distributors took some of the shortfall as well, which still means they're going to go to a customer. So they did still sell them. But I think that's for a different reason. I think that's the Halloween effect. But I guess my question to you, Ryan, has the bubble burst? Has it burst? Do we think people have now said, okay, all right, I get it. You've had your fun. We've all had a bit of a laugh, you know, but $4,000 price increase, fuck you. Mate, as long as there's like a good Pimble Machine theme, artwork and assets and all that stuff, like that's when people just go. Yeah, Bond's not it. And one of my first thoughts when Bond came out is like, holy shit, like if, I know Venom is a rumor and has been a rumor for a while and I don't know if it's still a thing, but who is going to spend 20 grand on Venom? Like, because you have that conversation in your head, you're like, well, it's James Bond, and it's been around for this many years, and I watched it when I was a kid, and James Bond's cool, and he gets old ladies, and you can make jokes and get away with it. But who has any memories about Venom? Like, there'll be a couple of people that'll buy it. They just have to have really amazing artwork and all the mechs and all that. You need that perfect combination of everything, and that's when it doesn't matter what it costs. Everyone is clamoring over it and has the FOMO. Because Scooby-Doo is an amazing, amazing property to have. Everyone, my kids know who Scooby-Doo is, and I never showed it to them. I'm like, how do you know who Scooby-Doo is? They're like, oh, it was a meme. They're relevant, and they always will be. but Venom doesn't mean anything to a lot of people. Yeah, well, I've never seen a Venom movie and for some reason I think people have said that they're not very good movies. Is that true? I haven't seen it either, mate. There you go. So either they're not good movies or people haven't seen them. Wait a second. No, I did see it. No, I have seen it. I saw the first. I think there's possibly two. someone's going to be screaming at the podcast now. I did see it. It was just very forgettable. People aren't going to be screaming at me because if anybody has been listening to this podcast, they know I don't watch a lot of movies. I didn't watch The Matrix because of you, Marty. You know how you always blame people for like, I was going to watch this movie, but then people talked about it too much and they ruined it and I didn't watch it. I love The Matrix. And yeah, I almost watched Matrix 4. Is that what it's called? Yeah. yeah was it Resurrections or something yeah Resurrections yep and you haven't seen it no okay well I categorically say you're welcome and I mean it and I mean it especially especially if you are somebody that loves The Matrix just don't do it so oh my god do you okay so you know my obsession with Avatar I was just about to ask Marty it came out have you seen it I don't want to know. I don't know. What do you see? Okay. This is being recorded on the 18th. Correct. I don't know. It could be terrible. I don't know. And I don't want to look at reviews. I just... Okay. I need to talk to you about Moby Syndrome. Okay? Moby Dick? Moby the guy, the singer dude? The singer dude. Moby released an album called Play. Fantastic album. Some people are going to say, oh, fucking bullshit. It's not for everybody. But it was an album that had track after track after track. It was just one of those rare albums where just about every track on the album was a brilliant track. You know you get those rare albums? Yes. it was just and it came out of nowhere did they blend into each other by any chance like can you just put the CD like the CD yeah it was a CD back then probably it was yeah yeah just put it on and just does it like just continue on or were they very defined songs very defined songs yeah very defined like it does it chops and changes okay so it was just the best I just couldn't believe how great this album was so then I think it was either a year or a couple of years later he released an album called 18. And it was 18 because it had 18 tracks on it. 92% of Google users like that. I don't know how I know that's that money, but it's 92%. So it must be good. I hope you're about to say that it's very good. What's that? Which one? The 18. No, it's fine, but it is exactly the same as the play album. Oh, okay. So it was just this massive letdown. So I have a real problem ever since that time. I honestly do. I have a real problem with sequels. I feel like you have a problem, Marty, with putting too much stock in things, like overthinking these fucking things that you are not in control of at all. I know. I obsess about... This is the whole thing. And this is about... I know we've had this conversation about people, about music, about movies, about things. I either absolutely fucking love it or I'm ridiculously indifferent to it. That sounds a bit binary, mate. That sounds a bit zero somewhere. It does sound a bit like that, but it's not. It just means that I have energy that I give everything to for things that I think deserve it. So I do. I obsess and I think and it just goes through my mind. And so I'm stressing out at the moment because this Avatar, The Way of Water, has been, what, 13 years later? And it could be this terrible movie. It could be. And I don't know. I don't know. I feel like you need to watch it immediately because then you will know versus thinking about watching it and being in some kind of hyper-stress situation trying to think of if it might be good. Hey, talking about music with a cooking money and Aussie bands, I listened to Dr. John's podcast. Yeah, cool. I'm not sure when a new album is coming out. And he always asks people what their favorite Aussie music artist is. And everyone answers with very, very old songs and people. And there's a lot of great Australian music that is kind of new. There's still Aussies producing content out there. Sure. Do you have anyone in mind that you like at the moment? That is a current Australian artist? Yeah, or just newer than 1970 is what I'm trying to guess. No, I don't. Well, Client Liaison, I think, would be my favourite of recent years. Okay, I don't know. Oh, Ryan. What genre is it? It's kind of It's a bit Funk, a bit pop A bit retro A bit club They've got this Oh my god, look at the photo of them They look hilarious They're not a joke band And it's not a parody But they are sort of paying homage To 80s and 90s Excess money And so all of their film clips Are about office workers. And they even did a song with what's her name? Tina Arena. I've seen them live so many times. They are the client liaison, everybody. What are people going to search for money if they want to listen to an album or a song? Diplomatic Immunity was the album, the first album. You could listen to either album. I couldn't even pick a song to start with. But do you know the band Chromio? No, I don't. Okay. You don't? No. Oh, okay. Well, for our American, North American friends, Chromio would be almost a bit of an equivalent-ish, sort of a bit retro funk. Anyway, client liaison. Look them up. Fantastic. I'll do it after this podcast. Is the question, what would be a good band theme that's an Australian group? Is that the question? Yeah, sure, bring it back to Pinball Monday. But is that the question? Is that why we're asking this question? No, it just came up. I just saw Rufus DeSole the other day. Oh, really? Yeah, and they're great live. They're just as good as listening to them on Spotify or even better. Yeah, great. Yeah, I was just thinking about Dr. John's Pinball podcast and how everyone just mentions people that are not producing music anymore. Yeah, okay. There you go. The end. Is Client Liaison your first pinball machine in the world? Is that the one that you designed back in 2020? The real thing multiball? Unloaded Switch Frenzy? Yeah, yeah. Yeah? Feel the Rhythm something something? Feel the Rhythm. Yeah, Feel the Rhythm. I think that's the one that's got the film clip in the snow. A Foreign Affair is the song with Tina Arena. Do it. It's great. It's all about travelling on airplanes. People machines these days, Marty, I think, I feel, we always knew this, but people that play have an ego. No, no, stop it. You lie. Most people are sensitive in that if they don't feel like they're doing well, they take their ball and take it home and they don't want to play and this pinball machine sucks because you know it's too hard or i mean too easy is also like you know that was that was kind of the the toy story thing like hey this is too easy too easy is bad too hard is bad but there's like a sweet spot in the middle there's godzilla which is the longest fucking playing game ever um and for Lord of the Rings it was like a bad thing but for Godzilla like people will say it but like yeah but it's but it's amazing like it's Godzilla if you want to play a game you might be playing for 45 minutes um but good good stuff happens it's not it's you know it's more evolved than Lord of the Rings but just I don't know Marty if you've had one of those long games yet on on Godzilla I'm I'm not sure if you've had heaps of time on it, but it's a long game. It's my only thing with it that I avoid playing it because I don't know how much time I have sometimes. I'm like, I want to have a little break from work. I want to play Metallica where I know I'm just going to kick my ass and I'm still going to have fun. Whereas Godzilla, you need a good half an hour. Yeah. What would you like me to say about that? There was a couple of questions in there. I just kept on talking after the question. Just start with one of the questions. What was the first question? Hey, Marty, have you played much Godzilla lately? No, I avoid it. I went to Hashman's. It was there. I went, no, I just don't want to play it. I did mention it today on the Final Round podcast that I finally got to play Led Zeppelin. Oh, okay. Ends. I mean, I know people probably already listened to Final Round. I don't know. I don't know whether there is a Venn diagram with the two things in the middle. Anyway, I said today, and I'm still drunk, but I'm a little bit sober compared to what I was. I think it's possibly Stern's worst game they've ever made. No, there's big butt-hunts around here. Nope, nope. Fucking. nope better game I said today the most offensive thing I could say about Led Zeppelin is I would rather play Rolling Stones I would can I tell you why without knowing any more details than that the best thing about Led Zeppelin is the rule nuances but in classical stern of late fashion most stern games you need to read the rule They're not going to magically make sense like a... Lazy. Lazy. Have inserts, have call-outs, have light shows, have it on the display. What kind of call-out tells you how to get the multiplier up to 270 times because you hit this ramp five times in the musical note? There's no call-out that's going to explain maths. It's not possible. I did say a light show or something on the screen. so the light show blinks 270 times which means you're on 270 times no but there's something on the screen that could tell you that yeah i look i i feel i had this again i had this conversation i had to defend my my view uh about godzilla once more at hashman and and i i say i think you just it there's too much with godzilla with godzilla godzilla i've not read one bit of rules I had one rule explained to me by Ryan Wenger, which is an amazing thing, that you can choose your perk, the 2x or the add a ball, you can choose it before you shoot it into the scoop. I'm like, ah, I never would have figured that out on my own. I don't know why, but I never would have figured it out. But everything else I've learned from playing the game. Godzilla makes sense if you play the game. That's fine. That's great. Are you saying that Led Zeppelin doesn't make sense even if you play the game? No, it doesn't. I've played enough games on it, and I refuse to read the rules, and I don't care enough about competition pinball. If someone beats me because they know more rules on Led Zeppelin, then that's me being lazy. Rush, I know, has a lot of stuff to it as well, but I understand it enough to play. But that also has a bunch of... I mean, I can't complain about it because this is what pinball has come to. If you bring out a pinball machine that is code complete when it comes out and people can figure it out easily, then your pinball machine will be flooded on the second-hand market before you can sell all your pinball machines. the way to sell the most pinball machines i believe and this is coming from someone that is not in the pinball industry is to have complicated rule sets to stage the code releases over the manufacturing periods and then once it once you're not making any more like who who really cares if it's on the secondhand market but if people are getting bored of it or seeing the end and seeing everything and there's no promise of anything else is coming if you're like hey this is complete like buy a buy a machine it's code complete that might spur on sales but it's going to leave people being like okay well like guns and roses yeah well guns and roses doesn't even have no guns and roses is sold is flooded on the secondhand market because they sold an absolute cunt load of them and it a lot of people that bought it were new into pimble. I think more pimble people than I ever know that got into the hobby got through Guns N' Roses as their first machine. But I don't think that Guns N' Roses has a wizard mode yet, Marty. I'm not sure if you... No, but a lot that... When it came out there was a lot already there. There wasn't that much they had to add later. It was still pretty fully fleshed out. So, that's my point. Somehow we're talking about complex rule sets. Yeah, Led Zeppelin, I don't know. I still haven't played the premium in there. I didn't even care about the rules. It felt shit. None of the shots felt satisfying, and also none of the shots that I made felt like I was doing anything. It's so weird. Yeah, you're right. It's just progressed the song a little bit more. As I said, the fun of that game is in the insane rule knowledge that you need. I've seen Eric Stone just get some ridiculous score, and I'm like, okay, that makes sense. It makes sense if you know a shot's going to be worth X billion because you hit 75 shots before it to get to that point. But someone who's flipping the ball around is not going to get that satisfaction. No, and this is the real dilemma that I have, and I'm sure all the other designers as well have. me throwing myself in with all the designers but it it's the game itself being enjoyable and then there's the scoring side of it which also needs to be enjoyable and you've got to somehow put those things together because like you're just saying like oh my god what was that dickhead's name what was it what'd you say mike from home pin no no the one that just did the billion shot on led zeppelin eric's yeah sure um it's like oh my god he did the amazing thing where he got this score couldn't give a fuck did he get to the wizard mode did he do a really cool mode did some fucking amazing multiball or light show happen or did some really funny call out happen points how is it that a point has become the reward I don't know shouldn't it be for me one of the best gaming moments in pinball is the start of multiball in Adam's family there you go I've said it and then multiball happens and it's fun but it's multiball it's also the score as well but it's the challenge of getting greed and then starting that multiball. That's the reward, starting multiball. Isn't that? Yeah, it's not maths. And I think Avengers was the first game that totally zapped me out of, I love, this game shoots better than I think any game I've ever played before. I love hitting combos and I love, but like it was soulless in its like reward system of letting you know you're doing well and i did it like was the opposite of what my brain enjoys in in pinball um and because i because i played all the 90s games and for some reason the 90s games were like designed to whatever goes on in my brain i don't know what fucking goes on marty but the reward system for letting me know i've hit a jackpot in in multiball in like 90 of the ballywee and games that came out does something to me it releases like dopamine and it works and for some reason avengers did the opposite of all that like i didn't have fun except for the the satisfaction of hitting the shots but it needs to be more than that it needs to be you know everything served up to me yeah and i think you and i i think well you and I did have a conversation about Avengers. Behind the scenes, we did get, actually, do you know where it was? It was last year when we did our Christmas episode last year and we bagged the shit out of Avengers. And then we had this behind the scenes conversation where someone was like, but hey, you get millions of points. It's like, yeah, but people, most people playing pinball that that 20 million points that you're giving them that's not the reward it's the light show it's the call it's the the vibration of the the what do you call it dildo sorry about james bond i was gonna say rumble but i've been playing playstation all day But, you know, the... Shake and moot, huh? Thank you. Oh, God, mate. How drunk are you? I'm really drunk. I recorded the podcast today with Jeff at about, I don't know, I think maybe one o'clock. And that was six hours ago. And I was drunk then. So, quite a lot. Anyway, the point I'm making is, as you're saying is, no one's really got the magic bullet that knows exactly what going to work and I think that because you got a company like Stern that can have a massive hit on its hands with Godzilla And I've categorically said this, that I don't think Godzilla is a bad game at all. I think it's a freaking amazing game. It's just not me. It's not compatible with me. That's okay. You can be the employer. Yeah. Well, more and more people are coming over to my side. But anyway. It's one of those weird things in Pinball Mighty where people, like when stuff comes out, sometimes 99% of people will say it's amazing. One person will say it's shit. Or the other way around, you know, and then. And then it settles. And then more people will shift one side to the other and people will be like, ah, ah, I told you so. I told you Stranger Things was a good game. I told you everyone was shitting on it, but I believed it. It's like, nah. It's like Stranger Things is good, but it's not amazing. It's just when a game comes out and it's lacking codes and, you know, like it's not that great. It's not that great. And then what happens is it doesn't sell well. So there's not many around. So then it's scarce and then people want it. And then that's the cycle that brings it up. It's nothing to do with like it being an absolute amazing game. And so what's going to happen to Godzilla is it's selling like hotcakes. and then eventually, when a new game comes out, people will be selling Godzilla. And people will be like, yeah, it's not that great. No, it is. It's just there's a lot of them, okay? There's a lot of Godzillas because it's fucking amazing. Because it was a hit, as I said. It was a hit. And that's why I say, objectively, it is a great game. I know it is. It's just not for me. But what I'm saying is that you can have a company like Stern who's just on a roll release Led Zeppelin. Yeah. and get it really wrong? They stopped making it ready, didn't they, Marty? I don't know. But how could a company release Godzilla and Led Zeppelin? By hiring Keith Elwin and by keeping on the payroll Steve Ritchie. Like, it's the person designing the game. Like, one of them has exhausted a lot of their ideas and is probably just a bit over it. Well, I mean, let's see what happens at JGP. And the other one is Keith Elwin, who has a backlog of ideas in his head that will probably last him many decades. Marty, can I just give you, can I just drop off Godzilla to your house? Because it's unfair that you don't like this game. You can have it. Okay, I'll drop it off for free in the next couple of days, and you can play it during your break. And then you don't have to be like, ah, I like it because I paid $16,000 for it. You can just say, yeah, it's shit. It's confirmed it's shit. Absolutely. I mean, do I have to give you anything, like a handy J or a BJ? A reach around. A reach around. Yeah. Okay. I'm up for any of that. Absolutely. You know the only problem is, I don't think you've been to my new house, have you? I'm not carrying it up any stairs. Okay. Well, we've got a problem. You can park your car in the street for a couple of weeks, might you? Why would I park my car in the street? So you can have the pinball machine in the garage and then... I don't have a garage. You don't have a garage? I haven't been to your house, money. You haven't been to my house. We're not even friends anymore. I've seen you twice this year. Possibly three times. Wow. Okay. Anyway, but I would, first of all, greatly appreciate that because I do want to like it. and I do I probably do just need more time with it but those fucking flop flippers oh my god you can I'll fix the flop flippers for you Marty I'll put the flippers in any I'll put it in a in a boner position if you want like any anyone you want yeah yep okay okay so alright cool Dixie and Pinball Marty so James Bond has a dildo yep Scooby Doo has two knobs on the apron yeah yes That move as well. Quicksilver has them all over it. What a great year for pinball. The dildo in Bond moves and shakes. James Bond's the two... Sorry, James Bond. Scooby-Doo, the two dicks move and off the ball. With airy balls, yeah. Yeah, and Rush was probably the best game this year, and there's no dicks there. What's this trend? Dicks in pinball. In summary, dicks in pinball. It's back, baby. It's back. So what do you think was... I think we did this last year as well. Predictions for trippies. What do you reckon is going to get Game of the Year? It's got to be Rush. I mean, like a thing that no one really cared about. But I love, love, love, love the way that game shoots. Same. It's everything that Turtles fucked up, and it's the same designer. I love Turtles. I just think, I've never said a game is too fast, but Turtles is too fast. The upper slipper has great shots that I can't hit because my brain can't adjust, whereas other games like Tron, which John Borg designed, and Rush, there's something about the geometry of the way the rails are bent that the ball slows down and you can hit the shot whereas on turtles even with the game it's not like fresh out of the box you know the game's like too bouncy because everything's too good it's like even after thousands of plays turtles just i can't do it see that's what i liked about it i liked about the fact that it was it's one of these games where you cannot play turtles casually. You can't. You can't sit there being relaxed. You've got to get the Ryan stance. You know the one where your leg's down, your butt's up in the air, you know, you've got a finger up there. Someone filmed me this year, Marty. He's like, you know you have a twitch when you play competitive pinball. I'm like, what is it? And he's like, play your next ball and I'll show you. and he filmed me playing like in the final four. So I was like, you know, under pressure and he showed me and I was horrified. I'm like, I look like I have all the neurological, you know, extremities just I'm on all the spectrums and I'm somehow like just I was like fucking. I know you're talking to me like I haven't seen this. I've never seen it, Marty. And people like. No, everyone's seen it. Yeah, and they laugh. But I'm just like, I thought they laughed because I'm like. Oh, no, we've been laughing behind your back for years. Yeah, I don't like it. But the point I'm saying is, you know that where you've got to be ever ready. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles by Stern is the most defensive game they've ever made. I don't think you've played Black Knight, Sword of Rage, No, no, no, I have. A lot. I kind of really warmed to Black Knight for some reason. I don't know. I think it's the rules. I think what I like about the rules are not complicated, not easy, just right in the middle. Nice. Thank you. Yep. Great. And lots of feedback, which I like. But with turtles, the ball is so fast, you are just constantly having to defend the ball from going out. Because it's just any shot comes back. Watch out. Here it comes. So I like that. I like that. I think that would make you a better player. Have you ever played, Marty, an ACDC Premium that is as fast as an ACDC Pro? No. I feel like the other day when I was playing an ACDC Pro and I was backhanding the left ramp on the fly, as in trying to get to jam multiball and you don't even try and trap up. You just go bang, bang, bang. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've never ever been able to do that on a Premium and it's got nothing to do with the stand-ups. I don't think it's got anything to do with how the game is set up. I feel like there's something in that game that the pro has a stronger flipper power than the premium. I would love for someone who has done some testing or knows something about the game. I heard something on a similar podcast about a pro and a premium being different in some other way. But I'm wondering if that's a thing or if I'm dreaming it. Okay. Whilst people are out there researching that and, I don't know, have we still got an email? Head2HeadPinball at gmail.com? Yeah. Or just message me on Facebook, Ryan Kaz. Because I played somebody's ACDC vault. And I'm telling you now, the flippers on that game felt really light, almost like toy flippers. And do you know what? It was one of the criticisms that I had. Sorry. It was one of the pieces of feedback I had about Spinal Tap. company Ryan Policky yeah the flippers felt like they were hollow there was nothing inside them so you would you know flip the flippers and you wouldn't feel any sort of feedback from the flippers that's how light they were is that a mechanical feedback i don't understand what people say this about that new that metallic flipper thing and like it feels different and so hard to get used to and i don't i don't know what that feeling feels like because i don't know what people are talking about okay are you like dead inside no i'm not dead inside i just don't feel like i've ever besides like the sound and like the like you can feel a little dick like you know when you hit it like there's mechanical things happening yeah we just connected to the chassis where you're holding the hands your hands on the pinball machine so you can potentially feel that correct is that what you're talking about yes correct every game every time you flip you get feedback through the flipper buttons on every game. And they all feel different. But if you've got a really light flipper bat, you still get the same sort of speed, but you just won't get that same sort of thud. And so the reason I'm saying, I'm just piggybacking on the back of your question, saying if anybody knows whether the ACDC vaults that were made, I don't know, probably about two, three years ago. For some reason, the flippers feel really, really light. Surely it's just got something to do with my two White Star games that I own, Lord of the Rings and Simpsons. I don't know what it is, if it's not soundproof the same, but when you clack the flippers, when you press the flippers, it is so loud. The sound goes out of the pinball machine. so is that is that a heavy pinball feel because you can feel it and hear it more or is are you talking about something else i still don't know if i get it no because sometimes no it's actually more of a weight thing um yeah you can sort of feel it when you when you let go of the flipper you know okay it's as subtle as this right when you are pushing in a flipper button you are firing off a coil which makes the flipper go up right so a mechanical thing happens and then when you let go the spring pulls it back right that that that's as technical as i'm ever going to get so that mechanical motion has a feeling right so whether whether you've got the playfield you've taken off the glass and you've got the playfield up whether there's no playfield glass or whether there's glass there every time you flip a mechanical thing happens which sends a vibration through the game so I would say you can even put your hand on the glass and hit the flipper with one hand and you'd be able to feel it through the glass right? Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Have you not felt that before? Are your fingers numb? I felt it Right, so I mean that and that flipper feel that you get is really important particularly when it comes to competitive play because people use that as timing for when you can hit your shot Right? It also can sometimes give you an indication of how the flippers are going to feel because each manufacturer is different all that kind of stuff What's the point of this? What are we saying? ACDC doesn't have that for some reason No, it just feels really light and so you don't get as much feedback with it and I'm just curious to know if anybody has that same experience with that game, it's really noticeable if I went to this person's place, which you've been to and said, okay, go and play this game and tell me about the flippers, you'd go jeez, that feels weird, I'm like, yeah Compared to like a new Stern game? Any other Stern game. So even the new ones you think... Even the new Stern games. It's just this one game. It just feels really weird. Okay. Yeah. So there you go. Great. Message Marty for ACDC Premium Staff Vault. Actually, there is a Pro Vault, but I don't think anyone bought that Pro Vault. And message me for ACDC Pro Flipper Strength. Why is it... I love ACDC Pro. I don't know why. I've got a premium, but I always... You talk about being on the edge of your seat. I love how freaking hard that game is. I love the fact that if you send the ball sideways to go for a jackpot, you're most likely going to lose your ball, so you better make sure it's a good song jackpot. It's got to be worth it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it did take me a while to fully appreciate how good ACDC is, but it's also one of those games where if it's not set up right, Particularly if the flippers aren't that strong. If you can't make the ramps solidly, it's just not fun. It's really weird, Marty, because I've played so many ACDCs now, and even the one I play at Rubix is an ACDC Premium, and it's hardly had any plays on it. And if you're the second player and you're on ball two and trying to backhand the right ramp, it's got to be so exact. Right, yeah. So I'm not sure if it's a premium thing with the flippers. I said I'd never have an issue on the Pro. But, yeah, it's not a fun game when it's set up shallow, but you want to backhand the ramp, so you kind of need the flippers to be good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They've got to be really strong, otherwise... I mean, how satisfying is it doing the jam ramp, just backhanding that left ramp over and over again? Yeah, on the fly. I mean, if I was a good enough player, I could hit the ramps left and right. That's another thing that I love about Keith Elwin games. It's pretty much like, I'm going to move the posts of the slingshots so you're going to really struggle to post-pass because I'm going to make my ramp so easy that you should shoot a ramp to get the ball on the other side. And I wish other games were like that because it's been how many years of I would rather shoot this shot from this flip-up so I'm just going to post it to the other side and there's pretty much no risk after you reach a certain... And that's just clever design to be able to make that happen. Yeah, yeah. He's very good. Hashtag I love Keith still. Hashtag Keith. Funny. So I don't know how much his James Bond is unless it's been released in the next six days before this podcast gets released. Yeah, it will be. I heard that it was mid-December is when it's getting revealed. This is going to be really interesting because, as we've already talked about, the Ellie coming out at $20,000 here. What was it in US dollars? I can't remember. $13,000 or $14,000 or something? No, not that much. Possibly $12,000 or $11,500. I'm not sure. So are we expecting this one to be more expensive? Do you want me to repeat the conversation I had with the Australian distributor when I got called about my Bond Ellie that I didn't buy? Yes, please. Hey, Ryan, got a Bondelli for you. Hey, you want it? I'm like, ah, I haven't really, like, seen much. And can you confirm the price? Oh, it's $20,650, right? I'm like, oh, jeez. And I can explain to you why the price went up if you want. You know, it's like, no, you don't need to. You don't need to. I understand. Like, you don't really set the price. Like, that's fine. So, yeah, are you in or are you out? I'm like, well, like, if you look back at the email that I sent you over a year ago, I did say, hey, Mr. Distributor Man, can you please put my name down as a very interested in a Bondalee when it comes out? Or an SLE, whatever the best version is, I want dibs on that. It's like, okay, well, we don't know the price on the thing. All I know is there's going to be a scoring reel and this, this, and that. But let me tell you one thing, Ryan. This is the best part. Let me tell you one thing, Ryan. if you can't stomach $20,600 you're not going to buy this. Say again? What did he say? If you can't stomach $20,600 then I'm pretty much going to remove you off this list because it's going to be a lot more than that. Right, okay. I mean, I might still be on the list but that was the other thing about Bond being that expensive. like being that expensive and knowing that you're getting the second best version potentially but are you well we don't know it's it's like it's why i couldn't buy cactus canyon out you know limited edition it's just like he you know it's going to cost x amount of dollars and it's really expensive in australia uh and and it's also going to be more when you want the extra content but we're not going to tell you how much it is like nah fuck that like yeah tell me how much it's gonna cost i want to know i want to know the details before i make a purchase like don't fucking hide information from me and get me to to you know i don't want to miss out i don't want to be a pleb no i'll let everyone else do that and then i'll buy it second hand once it's good or i won't buy it once it's confirmed that it's shit so who is the best designer in the world at the moment uh i think i've made it very obvious that it's Keith Elwin yep cool i like a long shot okay okay okay the reason why i asked that pacifically is because this is going to be a real test sorry to put the pressure on keith because we know you listen to this show this is now this is real pressure he's already designed the machine man he's just letting you No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is now the value associated with his name. Yeah. That's all it is. Are people going to stomach $25,000, $30,000 for a single level play field because it's Keith Elwin and it's got some unique shots? But do you think Keith Elwin is the one in the meeting room saying like, hey, I will design this machine for you guys, Stern, but like you got to sell it for $30,000. Like don't. he has probably absolutely nothing to do with the cast. He just said, hey, Keith, do you want to design a single-level game? No, I know that. What I'm saying is that as a brand, as a sub-brand of Stern, hashtag Elwynn is a brand within a brand. That brand now needs to sell these single-level playfield games for more than $20,000. so this is going to be a real test of how good a designer he really is i feel like he's probably got it but i mean i know this is nothing to do with the twenty thousand dollar thing but i mean he loves old school games he loves old school sort of electronic games he's talked on podcasts like the slam top podcast about how like things that he likes and things that he doesn't like like he he will have or probably several playfield designs like ready to go for single level playfields in his in his head of what like you know imagine if a single level playfield does this and that um i think he might show companies like what amazing things can be done without two ramps or a single ramp or three ramps or a side flipper i mean we've had tna come out in the last five years and that was great fun did it use the entire playfield the best that it could let's see it's going to be a very different game than that but I feel like you can make amazing single level games well obviously I'm going to agree with that Kelts but Fathom hello my favourite era of games still is early 80s and early 80s Gottlieb, Williams, Bally. Is Keith Elwin going to elevate it to the next level? I didn't say Stern, that was the point of what I was just saying there. I love those arguments. Stars, great game. I want to hear that bell. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Oh, and how does the other bell sound? Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. That's when you know you've got the 100k, Marty. Dong, dong, dong, dong, dong. The bell, the chime is just sitting there, just waiting to be used for that one shot. It's great. oh look I yeah stars yeah when you don't want to spend 40 minutes playing Godzilla money I'll drop over stars and Godzilla and you tell me what you like funny no I get the appeal of stars I think it's just been a little bit overhyped like every like every other game talked about in the podcast in the last couple years yeah I know I know so what else do you think is coming out soon Ryan? what do you know? nah I know nothing I'm very very much out of the loop and I'm glad to be I'm not in the inner circle of trust and I don't have to keep any secrets anymore I don't have to be called Marty in the middle of a work day and be accused of leaking information that I didn't leak I don't need to be messaged by pinball people and say that I'm manipulating people. I don't need that. And I don't, yeah, it's great. Yep. Yep. Yeah. No, I completely understand all of what you just said because I was side by side with you through most of it. Especially that, oh, okay, we won't give names, but it was that time when you and I were both shown something in the space of, let's say 24 hours, but it was overnight. Whilst we were asleep, somebody else that had that same information leaked it. Overnight, we woke up the next morning to this barrage of somebody saying, how dare you leak this information? We're both like, fuck, we didn't. You've only just told us and we've been asleep all night. It couldn't have been us. I remember you messaged me and was like, hey, did you leak it to anyone? and I'm like, ah, I showed it to my wife. I don't think she knows that's all I showed her. There's the leak. And I went and asked her. I was like, hey, did you like, and she's like, what? No, like, who the fuck do I know? I'm like, okay, just making sure. Good times. No, it wasn't good times because we felt shit. I felt shit. That wasn't the worst one. The worst one was the other one that I got accused of all these things and being mixed with another podcaster and it was enough to make me feel. No, I know. I went out of this thing. And then the person went on a podcast and said it was you. Ah, that was the funniest thing. They did. They did. They were like, yeah, something about Marty Robbins. And I was listening to it. I'm like, holy shit. It must have been really important to not even know who. Anyway. The good thing is, it's better to put my name because I couldn't give a fuck. I just don't care. So, you know, that's the whole thing. Like, come for me. come for me as much as you want i don't care is that is that i said come for me i didn't say come on me hey marty i have a i have a fitness strap that i i wear now and it's a really hardcore fitness strap and i'm not that hardcore into fitness but it's to improve my sleep because i value sleep i I have very poor sleep and it's improved since I wear it. It's called a whoop strap. I'm not sure if you've heard of it. And what it does is it measures all these things, your heart rate, your skin temperature, your heart rate variability, and how many calories you burn. And you need to use it to become a better athlete And I enjoy when I go on hikes or bike rides it usually automatically it a 50 for me picks up my heart rate, figures out my hand movements and knows what I'm doing. It's like, hey, you were playing basketball between this hour and that hour. But for some reason, for hiking and bike riding, which is my main exercise, it doesn't work that well. But twice this year, Marty, while I was, after I finished the finals of two pinball comps, I looked at my phone and said, hey, like, we can't figure out what activity this was, but for two hours, you had an elevated heart rate of, like, between 110 and 130 BPM, and it was like, what are you doing? And obviously, there's no pinball, but it's, I didn't realize how, I mean, when your heart rate is elevated, and you're not doing something. It's like it's a level of stress. But pinball puts my body under that level of fucking stress that this fitness strap thinks that I'm doing exercise. I'm not surprised by that. I think what we've got to remember is that layering over the top of that is this enjoyment that we are playing pinball and having fun. But it is still a physical game. It's still a mental game. And it's still a stressful game. Yeah. I've enjoyed playing pinball this year in comps. It was our conversation on the Final Round Pinball podcast that opened up the gates to another pinball venue. A listener called Dylan, who runs a business in the city, allowed us to start running comps. And we donate all the money to charity. Here's a funny conversation, Marty. during the first comp at Rubik's Dylan was like hey instead of us giving a couple of dollars to the winner and me taking some to maintain more machines, why don't we show of hands who wants to donate the money to Royal Children's Hospital and we'll buy them a bit more machine if they want one and everyone was like yeah let's do that and I'm like okay Toy Story is going to probably come out at the end of the year and it's going to be 12 and a half grand for the standard so it's going to take us two years to raise the money um maybe we'll figure something out um yeah and then it came out and the cheapest version was eighteen and a half thousand dollars and we're like all right fuck that next term pro that's family friendly yeah oh guys so you've had a big year for tournaments yeah yeah it's been great it's been the the resurrection year of trying to get things back to to where they were before it's just again it's so funny that i know we've mentioned this before how our lives have just reversed roles changed so i i i as i said i did do one tournament this year yeah which was at your house really great to see you there man i actually enjoyed it but every other time i think about the tournament i go doing the tournament i don't know it's almost like i get like an allergic reaction like this all this feeling of disgust it's like i couldn't possibly put myself through that kind of stress i've already got enough stress in my life i feel like marty you have flipper skills and game knowledge for some games that you could easily be the best player in in melbourne but what you're lacking is practice of like i i feel like people really underestimate the ability to perform under pressure is something that you can not be in tune with and come to the first tournament and win and we've talked about it then you get this perceived pressure which really doesn't exist and the best players have all these flipper skills and knowledge and recovery skills but they also have the ability to like stick to the plan and not have the elevated heart rate and be like keith alvin who's like the duck who's calm and frantically swimming under the water and looks like he doesn't give a shit but he does it's it's an important skill which I still feel like I haven't learned I've learned it in in tournaments that aren't important when it comes to something that I really want to win or a big tournament or Brisbane Masters or something I like I haven't figured out how to to do it yet I agree with you I I can be either really calm or I can be really fired up. What I need to be is calm and fired up. Yeah. Not don't care, but care enough to play well. Correct. Correct. Yeah. I mean, I won more tournaments this year than anyone else leading into the Victorian state finals, the VFPA one that we run for fun, and I had a five-strike lead in the final. I was watching. I had strike leads and I fucked it up. Everyone was like, congratulations, you came third. It's a massive achievement. And I'm like, eh, if I'm not... You're going to be just replaying all the stuff. No, I knew I just... I also won more games, I think, than anyone on the day. I won seven out of how many games he played. And Stu won five, I think, and won the tournament. It's just when he lost, he came second or third. whereas when I lost I came last and got the double strike. Okay. So yeah, maybe in 2023 my resolution is to not suck in big tournaments but it's hard, man. It's a hard thing to do. Yeah, they said the tournament scene is great. The WAPA changes next year will bring a lot of changes. I have been brainstorming with a bunch of people in the community what are we going to do next year so that our tournaments are fun but also worth something because we've talked about it many times before, Marty. It's a balance between you don't want to just cram everything in there but at the same time there's people like Simon Peel who is potentially going to go to Germany now because he's the second best player in Australia. But if I don't run tournaments that are worth anything, then he can't go. I know that sounds like I'm making myself sound really important but I like that feeling of running tournaments where people can raise their rank up and go places and feel good about that. Next year is going to be a challenge. How do you run weekly tournaments that are worth anything with Foot Frenzy being nerfed and with the multi-match play thing being nerfed as well? So we'll have to figure something out. yeah i mean how many how many tournaments do you run at the moment that are flip frenzies um we i mean we were running once every every month it i think it's just the fact that when i run a pinball tournament on a weekday i'm leaving work or my house or working from home at like five o'clock i'm taking a pinball machine with me to to moon dog world for example i'm setting all the games up i've got people helping me and and then i get and finish that around 11 you know So it's six hours, and then I drive home, and I'm wired, and I get to sleep, and I feel like it's a big investment of time. But I'm like, okay, well, that was a tournament that was worth like 88% TGP or something like that. So, you know, it means something. Whereas now, if I do that, it's going to be worth, like, because I don't have the multi-match play thing up my sleeve, it might be worth like 50%. And someone might win, and then it's not good enough to get on their card. and then I feel like I'm doing it for nothing. So there has to be something there where how much... I feel like six hours of my time is enough for a tournament to be worth something, but because people are doing these crazy weekend tournaments where it's like a whole day of, you know, like your Melbourne Silver Bowl League, that surely should be worth more than a weekly tournament. And it will be if you run one in the future, but it's the kind of nerfing of the things that I was doing that affects me. Are you still sort of obsessed with whoppers and how you're going to get maximum TGP and all that kind of stuff? I have a... It'll be called an exploit, but I think I know what I'm going to do. That will help maximise stuff, but I'm not going to mention it now because they have to publish the whopper thing and it has to be enacted on January 1st and then I'll start doing it and then I'll nerf it the next year. time cool hi josh up i love you josh so ryan you may have heard on a podcast this year me talking about uh gpt chat gpt well gpt in general gpt is the ai language but it's been used for many things It's like you can create art or you can – they've got chatbots that are now really good. So you've got a choice. I'm going to give you a choice. You can either have something that we both do or something that you do for me. What would you prefer? What? What's the context? There is no context. you just have to make a choice. Is it something that we do together or something that you do for me? Let me ask chat GPT because I have the window open now. I've been using it for work, Marty. I'm now AI enhanced. Do... No, I won't write it. Let's do something together, Marty. Let's do something together. Okay. Marty, before you do it, can I just let you know that you're an incredible person with a kind heart and a positive attitude and your dedication to this podcast and hard work is truly admirable and you go above beyond to help those around you and you're a valuable asset to my team and this project that we do. That was such an embarrassing thing. And it's a pleasure to work with you, and I hope this compliment helps brighten your day, Marty. And that was written by me and definitely not ChatGPT when I said, please give a compliment to Marty. Okay. All right. Okay, here we go. This is a Christmas song. So you'll need to read out the lines that start with your name, and then I'll do the chorus. okay so we're going to put some nice mood music behind this am i ready to go yep it's that time of the year again the snow is falling down the twinkling lights are shining bright all over town i'm feeling oh so grateful for all that we've been through but for most of all i'm thankful for the love that I share with you. Ryan, my love, you mean the world to me. You make my life complete. You set me free. I'll spend this Christmas by your side, wrapped up in your love I'll never hide. Marty, we'll sit by the fire and drink some cocoa sweet. We'll sing Christmas carols and dance to the beat. We'll exchange gifts and watch the tree light up. We'll make new memories And fill our cups Our cups And again this is the chorus So Ryan my love You mean the world to me You make my life complete You set me free I'll spend this Christmas by your side Wrapped up in your love I'll never hide Marty my love My joy my light In this dark and snowy night, you are the star that guides me home, and you fill my heart with love and hope. Oh Marty, my dearest one, you... What did you feed it to give it? You just write a song from Ryan to Marty about Christmas. Do you give it any more context and make it really... Oh Marty, my dearest one, you are the Christmas love I've won. Your touch, your kiss, your tender embrace. I think yes they bring you to this place as you sit by the fire and guzzle each other's cum shoot loads into each other's eyes we're very thankful for the time we've spent together the love and magic intertwine oh Marty my dearest one Marty you are the reason I love this season and all of its charms with you by my side I know that I can Carl Weathers any storm I don't even know storms just charms no so gpt's got a bit of work ahead of it i i the only thing that fucked up the other day was like give me a 2700 calorie diet and it gave me with like all these little snacks i'm like okay give me a 2700 calorie diet with no snacks and it gave me this like breakfast lunch and dinner it's like this is 101 700 calories which is a bit less than 2700 and that was it and like all right I just shouldn't trust this AI. Okay, Marty. Yes. What is your opinion on koalas? They are not as cute as people think they are, and they're also really smelly. What else do you know about them? They get stoned on eucalyptus. They've got very strong arms that can rip your face off. What else? Have I answered what you wanted to know? I'm going to get you to read. And they also get chlamydia, apparently. Yeah. Yeah. So people will come to Australia for, you know, I mean, the smallest thing can send you overseas. Like, I want to see this beach. I want to get a photo of this on this Instagram of a place. I want to pet a koala or a kangaroo. So I just want to ruin, like, koalas for some people just in case it would have been enough to send them to Australia. There are other reasons to come here. But Marty, you read that for me, please. Okay. Koala. This is not me, everybody. I'm reading this out. Although there may be some crossover. This is just something that I found online somewhere. Someone posted it. Koalas are fucking horrible animals. They have one of the smallest brain-to-body ratios of any mammal. Additionally, their brains are smooth. A brain is folded to increase the surface area for neurons. If you present a koala with leaves plucked from a branch laid on a flat surface, the koala will not recognize it as food. They are too thick to adapt their feeding behavior to cope with change. In a room full of potential food, they can literally starve to death. This is not the token of an animal that is winning at life. Speaking of stupidity and food, one of the likely reasons for their primitive brains is the fact that additionally to being poisonous, eucalyptus leaves the only ones they eat have almost no nutritional value they can't afford the extra energy to think they sleep more than 80 of their fucking lives when they are awake all they do is eat shit and occasionally scream like fucking satan because eucalyptus leaves hold such little nutritional value koalas have to ferment the leaves in their guts for days on end unlike their brains they have the largest hind gut to body ratio of any mammal many herbivore herbivorous mammals have adaptations to cope with harsh plant life taking its toll on their teeth. Rodents for example have teeth that never stop growing some animals only have teeth on the lower jaw grinding plant matter on bony plates in the tops of their mouths, others have enlarged molars that distribute the wear and break down plant matter more efficiently koalas are no exception when their teeth erode down to nothing they resolve the situation by starving to death because they're fucking terrible animals. Being mammals, koalas raise their joeys on milk, admittedly one of the lowest milk yields to body ratio. There's a trend here. When the young joey needs to transition from rich, nourishing substances like milk to eucalyptus, a plant that seems to be making it abundantly clear that it doesn't want to be eaten, it finds it does not have the necessary gut flora to digest the leaves. To remedy this, the young joey begins nuzzling its mother's anus until she licks a little diarrhea, actually fecal pap slightly less digested, which he then proceeds to slurp on. This partially digested plant matter gives him just what he needs to start developing his digestive system. Of course, he may not even have needed to bother nuzzling his mother. She may have been suffering from incontinence. Why? Because koalas are riddled with chlamydia. See, I told you. In some areas, the infection rate is 80% or higher. This statistic isn't helped by the fact that one of the few other activities koalas will spend their precious energy on is rape. Despite being seasonal breeders, males seem to either not know or care and will simply overpower a female regardless of whether she's ovulating. If she fights back, he may drag them both out of the tree, which brings us full circle back to the brain. Koalas have a higher than average quantity of cerebrospinal fluid in their brains. This is to protect their brains from injury, should they fall from a tree. An animal so thick that it has its own little built-in special ed helmet. I fucking hate them. The too-long-didn't-read version. Koalas are stupid, leaky, STI-riddled sex offenders, but hey, they look cute if you ignore the terrifying snake eyes and terrifying feet. I love that so there you go koalas come to Australia we have koalas we have koalas that that whole leaking diarrhea into their mouth no that was a bit I didn't know and that's pretty bad yeah so there's a movie about that um what's that movie where the the ass to mouth one where they South Park parodied it about not reading the iPhone in terms of conditions. Why can't I think of the name of the movie? I don't know. The horror movie where the guy sews people's mouths. Oh, the human centipede. I haven't watched that. I'm not sure if you've watched that. No, I don't think I will ever watch that either. But you would have heard on the last Final Round podcast that I did get to watch everything everywhere all at once. Which you had, the only thing I knew about it was something to do with dildos. Did I? The butt plugs. Yes, that was one of the best things. Did I tell you about that movie, Marty? No, I knew about this movie and I'd been meaning to watch it for a long time but you saying something about butt plugs, I was like, ah, okay, this is going to be a quirky film. It's not like I went, oh, hey, butt plugs, I've definitely got to watch this. I've got enough videos on that it's a great I've got to watch it again you say you watched it twice I think you alluded to you watched it twice in a row yep yeah because when you when you rent it on which I should have just bought it but when you rent it on Apple TV you get it for two nights yeah okay I've got to watch it again and it was it was just as good the second time there's an amazing mural of it in what's that place in Carlton that plays the art house-y films the cinema Cinemanova in the popcorn area there's someone's painted an amazing mural of the main character what were you doing at Cinemanova Ryan I was watching The Room with a fellow pinball friend and it was hilarious I'm very late to this trend of watching The Room have you ever seen it Manny is that the wait wait wait what was it oh I'm trying I'm trying to remember what I feel is the most famous line the first can you give me the first word of it well no I know the second bit is where he goes oh hi Mark that's it oh you wouldn't know the thing I didn't I did not what was it I did not oh hi Mark so I've never I've never watched The Room I've only watched bits of the disaster artist but what I've watched is a side by side of the original movie with the scenes that they recreated in the disaster artist and they are very close so I think I've watched The Room twice before I saw it at the cinema and the reason why they play it at the cinema is because people really enjoy watching it and it's almost like there's a whole bunch of amateur comedians in the crowd marty that like like know what to say to make people laugh during certain scenes there's certain scenes that people like yell at the same things like they you know every time there's a like they're by the staircase it looks like they're in prison people like yell at alcatraz it's a it's a thing but then there's people that'll just yell out really funny comments to like dialogue that and it makes you think it doesn't make sense. And these people must have watched the movie 50 or 60 times. It's an experience. I had so much fun that night. I want to do it again. I know some people have been doing it for 10 years and they think it's lame now, but I'm late to this trend. And I'm going to do it again. Do you know what? I would. I would, actually. Over your face. Okay. still got it i'm gonna tap one more story and i'm gonna stop this no no i can't tell no i can't tell it there's no segue i can't tell it i'll tell it to you after we finish recording fuck it i'm gonna tell it and you can beep it out i was my my youngest daughter is seven and she still says hilarious stuff she still has no filter she still doesn't understand like the consequence of things she says and I love it because she's my youngest kid and and there's gonna be a time where that goes away I'm not gonna have any more kids and it's kind of like I feel like it's lost forever they're just memories and today I went to to pick up my kids from my ex-wife's house and I'm like how great's the Carl Weathers today she's like yeah I'll do some sunbaking and uh my youngest kid said uh mommy likes to sunbake naked and I'm like yep I remember that and she's like yep and she's like i saw her the other day her vagina looks like cooked bacon I couldn't stop laughing. Oh my god. Head to head Christmas episode. Cooked bacon. It's cooked bacon. You and this are going to have to get right to the end of this episode to understand why we've called this episode Cooked Bacon. What was it last year? Prolapse. Christmas prolapse. Keeping it classy. and no one saw that there was actually a picture of a prolapsed asshole in the picture what are you going to put money in this well well I think we all know ah alright on that note we'll see have a merry Christmas guys and girls yeah absolutely everybody thank you for a fantastic 2022 it was a year it was a great year enjoy pinball any way that you can if it's watching pinball streamers stream pinball, if it's playing pinball on occasion, if it's buying every pinball machine and not playing it, don't let anyone fucking tell you how you're allowed to enjoy pinball. If you fucking make videos on Pornhub of you masturbating onto pinball machines with the company logo on the background, that's also fine. Just do whatever the fuck you want. As long as you're not harming someone else or trying to detract from their fun from pinball, just keep on going at it. Yeah, sadly. yeah no people like that but yes for the most part good people yeah alright see ya I feel like there's a story you're going to tell me after we stop recording there's this one cunt who was trying to take you out and hang a spin ball Jesus Christ you have no idea what we had to go through well thanks everybody see ya everyone bye have a good Christmas