Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Ep 24: We Are ALL IN On Galatic Tank Force

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 32m·analyzed·Oct 4, 2022

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Cleapin recap and confused James Bond 60th reveal with pricing concerns.

Summary

Triple Drain Podcast Ep 24 discusses the hosts' experiences at Cleapin (Cleveland Pinball Expo) tournament where Travis finished second, tournament format critiques (particularly random draw tiebreakers vs. earned advantages), and reactions to Stern's chaotic James Bond 007 60th Anniversary game reveal marked by leaks, unclear pricing, and production delays.

Key Claims

Travis finished second at Cleapin, with Carlos winning the tournament, playing outstanding on Attack from Mars
high confidence · Travis competing in tournament finals; Joel and Tom as observers confirming Carlos' victory
Random draw tiebreakers at Cleapin disadvantaged high seeds who earned bus driver position; Neil lost a tiebreaker on Kiss against Shannon Stafford after being picked by random number generator
high confidence · Direct discussion of tournament format with Travis and Joel noting the issue
Free Play Florida tournament format uses reverse order finish (last place pick next game), which incentivizes intentionally losing
high confidence · Competitive players texted the hosts about Free Play Florida format continuing from last year
James Bond 007 60th Anniversary game reveal was chaotic with initial release delayed, multiple leaks, and no official announcement cadence
high confidence · Travis working for distributor noting the reveal was 'bumpy' and discombobulated
Keith Elwin confirmed in chat that leaked mockup image of James Bond game is not 100% accurate, particularly blank start/coin buttons suggesting it's a mockup
high confidence · Joel's stream experience where Keith Elwin appeared in chat and steered them toward realizing the image was inaccurate
James Bond 60th will have mechanical score reels in the backbox, different from standard LCD screen format
medium confidence · Keith Elwin reached out to Joel confirming mechanical score reels, unclear if backbox form factor will change
Elvira 40th Edition secondary market pricing is $20,000-$21,000 new and used, suggesting James Bond 60th could reach $25,000+
medium confidence · Travis referencing Facebook marketplace listings as price floor comparison
Stern Insider podcast confirmed George Gomez mentioned potential Goldfinger LE variant similar to Elvira 40th year-later release model
high confidence · George Gomez statement on podcast about conditional Goldfinger release based on sales

Notable Quotes

“I hate taking second place, though. That's I think the second time this year in the Stern Pro Circuit event. I took second. So I've never won one.”
Travis @ ~20:00 — Reveals frustration with competitive results and motivation to win at higher level
“if you're picking against another, you know, particular opponent, you're probably going to, do you want to pick the game you want or do you want to pick a game? You know, they don't want, and there's way more strategy there than I, than I think I'd ever given you guys credit for.”
Joel @ ~15:00 — Shows understanding of strategic depth in tournament game selection and format design
“I would sell the game for $100,000 if I could. Yeah. I like money, Joel.”
Travis @ ~65:00 — Reveals distributor perspective on premium game pricing and profit motive
“the score reels are mechanical. Like there are going to be score mechanical. So I don't know if that means the entire back box is going to look different or if they're going to stick to the standard form factor”
Keith Elwin (relayed by Joel) @ ~75:00 — Insider confirmation of key mechanical feature difference from standard Stern games
“this is a mock-up... the one photo that's out there that is going around, I know for a fact it's not 100% accurate. And that's straight from Keith Elwin”
Joel @ ~70:00 — First-hand confirmation from designer that leaked image cannot be trusted
“it's been weird. It's been like from, you know, for Tom and I, it's been one thing. Like, how interested in this game? Is this a game that I'd potentially buy? Travis, it's been a whole nother experience now that you work for a distributor.”
Joel @ ~45:00 — Highlights perspective difference between consumers and distributor/industry insiders on product reveals

Entities

Triple Drain Pinball PodcastorganizationTravispersonJoelpersonTompersonCleapineventCarlosperson Neil McCraeperson Keith Elwinperson

Signals

~
sentiment_shift: Community confusion and frustration with James Bond reveal cadence; customers uncertain about availability, pricing, and delivery timelines; concerns about mimicking problematic Elvira 40th release strategy
high · Travis: 'I firmly believe right now there's a lot of customers out there that are very confused just because it hasn't been the normal reveal' and Joel: 'It's weird though like godzilla godzilla came out and if you hadn't placed an order within the first i don't know 48 hours you're waiting a year plus before you're going to get your game'
?
community_signal: Cleapin (Cleveland Pinball Expo) positioned as significant Stern Pro Circuit tournament with strong competitive field and community infrastructure (streaming by Chuck Wirt crew)
high · Tournament had multiple qualifying rounds, finals, established tiebreaker protocols, professional streaming, and competitive players competing at high skill level
?
leak_detection: Multiple high-resolution images of James Bond 60th leaked via Google search filter manipulation of 007.com/007fans.com; Keith Elwin confirmed mockup is inaccurate with blank buttons
high · Joel: 'Google found it like there's some there's some smart people on Pinside, but they literally messed around with the filters on Google and found a way to like they were basically searching for photos on. I think it's 007.com or it's like 007fans.com' and Keith Elwin confirmation it's a mockup
?
licensing_signal: James Bond artwork sourced directly from Sean Connery era movie posters per David Dennis analysis; authentic to specific film era
medium · Joel: 'David Dennis on and he is actually like a huge James Bond fan. And so he was like, no, this is very, you know, it's very clear. Every bit of art that you're seeing was pulled straight from movie posters'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.277

0:00

the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right i think we're good yeah travis you're pointing you can hear me travis you good please don't act like you can't hear me of course i can hear you joel we just did sound checks before we even hit the button i just i would not put it past you joel i'm writing way dude you're in the comfy too man i'm ready you are i'm ready to go i'm i'm in the zone tonight let's do this wonderful tom you ready i'm cutting you off hell yeah tom i'm glad you're ready man appreciate it um well yeah here we go we we we're three guys who like the talking ball So we came up with a clever name. We're Joel and Travis Downer Talk and Ball. And we call ourselves Triple Drain. We're Triple, Triple Drain.

1:13

Well, you know, I got to give it to us. You know, we've, oh, crap. Travis, what? I see your hands in the air.

1:20

Joel, what is going on? I'm not muted. I know you can hear me. Okay, Tom and I, we are freaking fired up. Tom's brought the soundboard. We danced during the intro. And you're just sitting there with your arms crossed, just like staring daggers at something.

1:39

Just keep it professional. No, what I was noticing was I looked at the time, and it's 929. We said we were going to record at 930. Somehow the three of us all showed up at 922 with working equipment. We had the shortest pre-show conversation we've ever had. Oh, I get it. I understand now why you're upset. You didn't get to make fun of me for like 15 minutes before we started recording. That's what I did. Tom and I really just want to start recording without you. And now you're showing up on time. You're actually ready to go. I don't know what's going on. But 24 episodes, Travis, I'm glad you finally figured it out. So congrats, man. yep thank you okay all right well um yeah last time we recorded the three of us all recorded in the same room you know um travis was ripping them on my bed um it was it was good it was eating physically eating on your bed yeah yeah crumbs galore no it was a good time cleapin was a good time that what was funny is we recorded everybody left i was still awake i was like i'm going to start editing this. And you know, when you're immediately listening to a conversation you just had, I got about halfway through and I'm like, what am I doing? It's one 30 in the morning. So I stopped, woke up the next day, finished editing it that day, which was a Sunday morning. And I think, um, Zach actually had it uploaded like later that day, which is pretty awesome. So props to Zach for doing that. That was a good time. It was a good time recording in person. Um, the audio quality sucked, but it was, it was still an enjoyable experience. Props to Ray Day for just showing up at the hotel and there we go and giving his two cents and then uh i mean holy crap how long and then monica i forgot i had to hit the button again yeah monica stole the show right at the end um so way to bring her into that there travis so yeah hey that was your mortal enemy apparently last weekend yeah are you gonna congratulate travis well i was just saying this now that that's done you tom that was saturday night i appreciate it that's why you're my favorite one i know hey i'm top three so sunday sunday rolled around and um yeah me and and tom we're just there to be supportive and had a great have a great time uh neil was still in it travis so we're talking about clee clee pin this is the the cleveland pinball expo there was a tournament there uh travis had made finals neil um neil got out what first round i mean uh well yeah so he went in unfortunately yeah he got out what was strange about that is he was actually driving the bus but he was in a tiebreaker with uh shannon stafford hey shane uh but uh But the weird thing is in that tournament is you're basically your tiebreakers. You don't get to pick. It's just random draw. So Kiss got picked. Neil was like, well, okay, but I would have picked something else. And then he ended up losing. Yeah, I remember that. There was a few tiebreakers, and I remember that. Even the day before, there was a tiebreaker, and everybody was surprised. Like, wait, what? You know, not the highest seed. The highest seed isn't picking. It's they literally ran a random number generator. It's fed out a number and they're like, oh, you're playing turtles. So, yeah, I mean, I could I could see that for something where, you know, the tournament is random draw the entire time. But, you know, when you're the bus driver, you should be the bus driver. Yeah. At a herb at a herb event, especially if it's a Stern Pro Circuit event, I would much rather have somebody be the bus driver because they earned it. they they played skillfully the whole time to get there and they deserve to have that advantage so to me yeah i do not like the random number generator but not taking anything away from shannon because he he played amazing you know i'm just saying the the format so just you know that way you don't end up on cosmos people right right right for people considering running tournaments you know it's just something to think about in the future well tom isn't free play Florida, they're still running from my understanding because we had a bunch of competitive players just text us this past weekend or maybe right before this past weekend talking about the Free Play Florida format. Right. So it looks like apparently they're still going to do what they did last year, which is it's reverse ordered finish. So, Joel, what that means is if you take last in your group, you get to pick the game the very next time. try to like even the playing field every round it's just well yeah and it just doesn't make any sense because it encourages you to actually lose like you you might have to actually lose on purpose i've been in a tournament before to where after winning the first game and i had a bad first ball i was just like why is there any point to to playing this out and trying to scratch and claw my way to a second or third place when I could just go ahead and just wait and just get my game pick for game three. And so, I mean, it looks like they're going to do this again. It is. But at the same time, though, the ability to be able to pick your game because you're picking that game because you believe you can win. That's I mean, that's the reason why you're picking it. So it's just kind of one of those things that I'm very surprised that that format is still going to take place again. And so just like Tom and I were talking about a second ago with Cleapin, I mean, it's, if you're the bus driver, let people be the bus driver. But whenever you're in a herb event, I, I personally don't see any value in making it reversed order finish because then it's just, you know, to me, it's just, you, you take away hours upon hours of qualifying. You take away any incentive to be a bus driver. You take away any incentive to really be a high qualifier, you know because there's still incentive to even if you're not the first seed in your group to be the second seed in your group since you usually get to choose you know your position next so i remember we talked about this on a previous episode that i doubt you ever want to be in a tournament where you're deciding whether or not you want to play well or not you know if it's if it's in a if it's in a situation i mean yeah you don't want to see anybody literally throwing their hat like i'm done with this game like i'm purposely sucking at this game so that i have an advantage next game like that just seems kind of counter productive but no i there was a lot that i learned not only participating in the tournament but also watching the tournament and one thing that i've always been impressed by when watching tournament streams was in my mind i'm like how are these guys so good at these games you know they're just they can just step up to these games and they just know the shots that can just play them. What I totally didn't take into account was Travis, you're playing, you're, you're in finals on Sunday. You got there Thursday. So essentially from all day, Thursday, all day, Friday, most of the day, Saturday, you're playing the same nine games over and over and over again. So you guys are learning that game. You're understanding that game. So it's not like you're walking up fresh. I mean, you, you know, that game, uh, you know, over the course of playing it so many times so that when finals comes around, it is very clear you know if carlos carlos was had top seed we know what carlos is going to pick based off of the killer scores that he was putting up on attack from mars while travis you had the number one spot in quicksilver for days so it's like okay if travis actually had the choice to pick a game he's probably going to take quicksilver because he had the number one score that nobody was able to beat until the very end that's a that's a whole nother thing that we can get into but that's something that just from an outside observer, I didn't realize, I didn't realize it is very clear that normally as the days goes on, everybody gravitates towards certain games that they become more comfortable with. You guys know this. So if you're picking against another, you know, particular opponent, you're probably going to, do you want to pick the game you want or do you want to pick a game? You know, they don't want, and there's way more strategy there than I, than I think I'd ever given you guys credit for. So that was pretty cool. But hey, I got to give it to you, Travis. Come Sunday, you know, Tom, myself, Neil, we're all just observers. Monica, we're all rooting you on watching. And yeah, you made it really far. So I don't know if you want to kind of, I don't know, talk about that. But yeah, your Sunday experience. I mean, it was fun in general. I hate taking second place, though. That's I think the second time this year in the Stern Pro Circuit event. It took second. So I've never won one. That's like in the feels, Joel, totally in the feels like I really want to win very badly. But, you know, the reality is, is Carlos, he just played outstanding. I mean, yeah, it's like when you walk up and you are at like eight billion on ball three on attack from Mars and you're in third place. Yeah. At the time, it's like, OK, you know, everybody there can play at that point. anybody that makes finals can play but especially just like you were talking about before when everybody has the opportunity to play the same games over and over and over again you get dialed in to the bounces to the tilts to understanding where all the shots are i mean it it makes for a very fun and competitive environment it makes it a lot more fun knowing that you have to blow up a game more times than not in order to survive that format because yeah if you're playing a match play tournaments, random draw, everything, you may not have to blow something up because then oftentimes people are going in cold. They may not know the balances, what have you. But when you're dealing with tournaments like this, and you could even see this if you watch the UK Open, and I think this even happened at a pinball at the lab, which was interesting because that wasn't a herb, but at the same time, they've got to play those games. And so you get to know the balances. You get to figure out what you want to do. And so, yeah, it just makes for a much more fun finals, in my opinion. And I like that. I like the atmosphere of knowing, OK, this player's picking this game because they believe they can win at that game. And the rest of us got to try to play catch up. And, you know, that's that's what's fun about it. That's what makes competitive pinball a lot of fun. Well, what I thought was fun was come Saturday when you're like, I've got to get in, all of a sudden you shifted to Corvette. You were just focused on Corvette. You were like, I got to get that up. So all of a sudden you just are playing Corvette and you blew it up. Like you blew it up and you're like, done. I'm done. Let's go to dinner. I'm good. So I thought it was funny that come the next day, it was like, you just dominated on Corvette. Anytime that you guys played Corvette, you just blew it up. And it was just one of those like, okay, don't mess with Travis on Corvette. Got it. Just like Lowe's was blowing up Attack from Mars. You know, everybody starts really honing in on certain games, which is pretty incredible. It's one of those things, too. And Tom can attest to this, that qualifying, you realize that you have space to make mistakes. Like it's OK. You can requeue. And I myself, I made a crazy tactical mistake all weekend long playing the way that I did in qualifying. I talked to some other people about this, about the choices I was making and just basically how my approach was. I decided to change it up a little bit. Now I'm going to go back to the way I did things originally because it cost me. It cost me getting into classics. And then it cost me a great position in Maine to where I was down towards the bottom. So I don't want to do that anymore. But Tom can attest to this, that after qualifying, when you get into finals, then that's when you have to turn it on. Because you got no more recues, you got no more voids, you have to put up a score, and you have to be strategic, you have to be skillful, and you have to understand where you want to go with the game. You understand what the game's going to give you at that point, and so you know what your plan of attack is going into there. And oftentimes it might shift, too. If somebody puts up a crazy ball one, yeah, it might shift a little bit. But yeah, that's what all goes into it. that your mindset just changes and you want to get the win. Well, I mean, now that I'm a tournament player, I totally understand what you're saying. I can really relate to you. And, I mean, my tournament experience, yes, it is me versus all the other people, but it really just felt like it was me versus the game. And every time that I finished, I was just like, I can do better. And so you want to buy another ticket, you want to try again. And, sure, I was comparing numbers, specifically against Monica. I just picked one name that I knew that was on the list that I felt like I could pass. and it was I mean it was a lot of fun but I'll be very curious next time I have a chance to play a tournament and actually go head-to-head because for you to have an amazing you know ball two on Corvette now every now all of a sudden everybody is changing and trying to adapt to try to and it's you are I mean it's you versus the game but it's it is very much you versus the other people so congrats on the second finish I think it is funny Monica had finished third the night before so I know we were joking around it's like he better he better finish third or above or it's going to be a weird ride home so i mean wait well done sir well done yeah yeah thank you kind sir i appreciate it he did a fist pump yeah for all the for all the listeners no i was tipping my cap oh that's an aggressive tip i don't you know i'm an aggressive guy joel you know this i i apologies to all the uh white knights out there for joel rogan i was not meaning any violence towards him just now or just oh no we're still worried about yeah we're still so okay we've had a lot of conversations about that the reality is we enjoy poking fun at each other we understand though that we should let the other person finish what they're saying before we interrupt with our hilarious quip you know because i know we're all so witty no no you for all those out there keeping score at home i know some of y'all don't realize this but read the titles to our podcast yeah they're all they're all hilarious yeah most of them might be at your expense but they're all hilarious exactly you guys you know typically what happens is i edit the podcast and i'm like i want this done i want it out and i take all of about 10 seconds to think of an episode name so if you the two of you want to you know submit a thought you know towards the episode title i'll listen i may not type it in but i'll listen thank you i appreciate it so there we go So, Kleepin, it was an amazing tournament experience. I, you know, congrats to Carlos. I mean, he blew it up. He had a great weekend. It was a lot of fun. Really cool seeing those people. And shout out to Chuck Wirt and his crew streaming the thing. It was fantastic. So, all around good time. We got to mention this weekend was the UK Pinball Open. And what a freaking amazing tournament Neil McRae put on in London. and we're going to give them some applause right now. There we go. Unfortunately, I had not had a chance to watch that, but that will be something I will have on the third monitor this week as I work. But it should be a good time. So moving right along to number two, James Bond, the Bond 007. We still don't know the official. I don't think we know the official name of the game, but it was officially announced. So I know we discussed this when we were at Cleapin. It was announced that that Thursday, the Thursday later. And basically what the announcement involved was a bunch of high res photos and a pro feature, a premium feature at an L.E. feature. And that's it. We don't have any other you know, we don't have anything else from Stern. No announcement on on when the game will be streamed. There was a Stern Insider podcast. That was a good time. Listen to that. Highly encourage that. But yeah, it's been weird. It's been like from, you know, for Tom and I, it's been one thing. Like, how interested in this game? Is this a game that I'd potentially buy? Travis, it's been a whole nother experience now that you work for a distributor.

James Bond 007 60th Anniversary

Elvira 40th Editiongame

Free Play Floridaevent

UK Pinball Openevent

Zach (Flipping Out)person

Shannon Staffordperson

market_signal: Stern's James Bond reveal lacks cohesive marketing strategy: no clear streaming date announced, multiple uncontrolled leaks, delayed production timeline messaging from leadership

high · Joel: 'We still don't know the official name of the game... We don't have any other you know, we don't have anything else from Stern. No announcement on on when the game will be streamed' and Travis calling the reveal 'bumpy' and 'discombobulated'

market_signal: James Bond 60th pricing expected to exceed $20,000 based on Elvira 40th secondary market comps; Travis speculates potentially $25,000+

medium · Joel: 'I saw right now on Facebook, right now there's two new in-box Elvires that are set at like $20,000 plus, $20,000. So you're $20,000, $21,000, even used. So if that's a bar, I mean, I think there's chances Elwynn game is going to be $25,000.'

product_strategy: James Bond 60th Anniversary reveal experienced multiple delays, leaked images, and inconsistent production timeline messaging (April homebuyer delivery pushed back to unclear date)

high · Travis: 'initial release getting delayed and then all these leaks getting out and then you know not really having it doesn't feel like we've had an official i guess an official reveal' and 'so when you're trying to market this game to people outside the industry, it's kind of I don't know. It's kind of strange because, you know, it's like, hey, here's the game. It's been revealed. But, hey, the game's not going to be available for you for a few months from now.'

product_strategy: James Bond 60th features mechanical score reels in backbox instead of standard LCD screen format; Keith Elwin confirmed this feature but unclear if full backbox form factor will change

medium · Keith Elwin (via Joel): 'the score reels are mechanical. Like there are going to be score mechanical. So I don't know if that means the entire back box is going to look different or if they're going to stick to the standard form factor, but instead of having an LCD monitor, they'll have something else physically in that same spot'

business_signal: Stern potentially replicating Elvira 40th multi-release model with James Bond: George Gomez hinted at conditional Goldfinger LE variant if initial sales strong

medium · Joel: 'george basically was like well depending on sales the maybe maybe gold gold finger would happen so everybody's hearing that they're like all right they're gonna do just like alvira 40th edition where a year down the road boom here's another le version that's gold gold it's like are they and so the people are already annoyed or upset about that even the concept of the potential of something like that'

competitive_signal: Free Play Florida and Cleapin using tournament formats (reverse order finish, random draw tiebreakers) that undermine competitive integrity by removing incentives for skilled play or earned advantages

high · Travis: 'you take away hours upon hours of qualifying. You take away any incentive to be a bus driver. You take away any incentive to really be a high qualifier' and Joel: 'you don't want to see anybody literally throwing their hat like i'm done with this game like i'm purposely sucking at this game so that i have an advantage next game'