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Episode 797: "One Day, Pinball Sales Will Come"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·32m 38s·analyzed·Apr 28, 2023
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Pinball pricing, manufacturing, and market sustainability under pressure from secondary markets.

Summary

Kaneda discusses pinball market dynamics, manufacturing efficiency (especially Stern's advantages), game quality issues across manufacturers, and the unsustainable pricing/distribution model. Key topics: Foo Fighters manufacturing excellence, James Bond incomplete release, Dutch Pinball's 15-month delivery times, Haggis Pinball's next game (Centaur), American Pinball's Galactic Tank Force delays, Spooky's Scooby-Doo quality concerns, and the need for transparent sales pricing to compete with secondary market undercutting.

Key Claims

  • Foo Fighters LEs and Premiums are arriving simultaneously because Stern manufactures them on the same line, changing only the apron and cabinet at the end—a manufacturing efficiency advantage competitors like Jersey Jack cannot match.

    high confidence · Kaneda explaining Stern's manufacturing strategy for Foo Fighters

  • Big Lebowski buyers report 15-month waits from order to delivery, up from Dutch Pinball's stated 12-month estimate.

    high confidence · Kaneda citing Cointaker distributor claims and owner reports on delivery times

  • Haggis Pinball's next game after Fathom is Centaur (Marty Robbins design), not the long-rumored War of the Worlds.

    medium confidence · Kaneda asserting he previously announced War of the Worlds but now correcting to Centaur as next release

  • American Pinball's Galactic Tank Force has unresolved target-flexing issues and production has slipped from May to June.

    medium confidence · Kaneda reporting David Fix's emails about target bracket fixes and distributor (Mr. Pinball Australia) production timeline changes

  • Scooby-Doo by Spooky Pinball is shipping ~1,969 units, causing secondary market oversupply with machines listed at $1,400–$1,500 that aren't selling.

    high confidence · Kaneda observing marketplace listings and inventory analysis

  • Guns N' Roses LE distributors are sitting on inventory forced to hold $11,000 sticker price while secondary market sells at $8,000, creating unsustainable pricing pressure.

    high confidence · Kaneda describing MAP pricing conflict and distributor inventory challenges

  • Jack Danger streaming Pulp Fiction tonight marks the first proper demonstration of the game's audio and call-outs due to poor previous show/stream quality.

    high confidence · Kaneda previewing Jack Danger's stream at 6 PM CST

  • James Bond playfield says 'attache case' but in-game call-out says 'briefcase'—a discrepancy Kaneda expects Stern to fix after podcast mention.

Notable Quotes

  • “It's the ultimate flex in all of pinball. Think about it. We're going to let you take our designer to help you sell your game, and we won't even care about it because he has sold us so many Foo Fighter machines, it doesn't even matter.”

    Kaneda@ 3:56 — Illustrates Stern's market dominance and the paradox of Jack Danger promoting competitor games while employed by Stern

  • “I think a game should be amazing on the day they take your money. I think a game should be amazing on the day they sell it to you.”

    Kaneda@ 9:09 — Core critique of early-access release model and incomplete games at full price

  • “My premiums bulge is as big as your LE Bulge.”

    Kaneda@ 7:41 — Humorous observation about cabinet leg manufacturing details and merchandise joke

  • “If you're Marty Robbins and you're designing a game at Haggis Pinball, who's walking into the room to help you make that game better? ... Jack Danger walks into Stern Pinball with some design ideas. He walks over and there's Keith Elwin. There's George Gomez. There's Brian Eddy.”

    Kaneda@ 15:49 — Highlights resource disparity between boutique and mega-manufacturer design teams

  • “I feel like all these boutiques that are struggling with manufacturing, they're going to take that new deposit money and they're going to use it to build the fathoms.”

    Kaneda@ 16:54 — Accusation of unsustainable deposit-chaining by smaller manufacturers

  • “They don't. They're being bankrolled by AIMTROM and Mukesh. They know the way the industry works. If you want to get excitement for your game, you're going to have to get the game on the line within the first couple months of the game being revealed.”

    Kaneda@ 19:11 — Critique of American Pinball's slow production timeline despite financial backing

Entities

KanedapersonJack DangerpersonSpooky LukepersonBarrypersonMarty RobbinspersonDavid FixpersonJerryperson

Signals

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern's ability to manufacture Foo Fighters LE and Premium on identical lines, changing only apron/cabinet at line-end, demonstrating manufacturing advantage over competitors like Jersey Jack

    high · Kaneda's detailed explanation of Stern's single-line strategy vs JJP's separate LE/CE lines for Godfather

  • ?

    product_concern: Spooky Pinball's Scooby-Doo experiencing quality issues despite being their best shooting game; pattern of Spooky quality problems acknowledged

    high · Kaneda noting Pinside complaints, Spooky Luke engagement in thread, acknowledgment of 5 machines with issues out of few hundred made

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Dutch Pinball Big Lebowski experiencing 15-month actual delivery times (vs 12-month stated), with no clear production cap or end date in sight

    high · Cointaker distributor claiming 12 months; actual owners reporting 15 months; Kaneda's concern about perpetual manufacturing

  • $

    market_signal: New in-box games (GNR LE $11k sticker vs $8k used; Scooby-Doo $1400–$1500 listed with no sales) unable to compete with secondary market pricing despite MAP enforcement

    high · Multiple game examples showing $2–4k secondary market discounts; Kaneda's core thesis on unsustainable pricing

  • ?

    code_update: James Bond receiving consecutive code updates increasing fan satisfaction and excitement; perceived as incomplete at launch but improving through patches

    high · Kaneda noting 'every code update, James Bond fans are getting more excited' and his broader critique of incomplete releases

Topics

Manufacturing efficiency and economies of scaleprimaryPricing, MAP enforcement, and secondary market competitionprimaryGame completion and incomplete releases at full priceprimaryDelivery times and production bottlenecks at boutique manufacturersprimaryQuality control and customer service expectationsprimaryDistributor inventory management and marginssecondaryDesign team resources and competitive advantagesecondaryDeposit model sustainability and refund policiessecondary

Sentiment

mixed(-0.15)— Kaneda praises Stern's manufacturing prowess and Spooky's theme integration but is deeply critical of unsustainable pricing models, incomplete releases, boutique manufacturer delays, and industry-wide business practices. Frustration dominates the second half regarding secondary market undercutting and distributor/manufacturer misalignment.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.098

0:00
I'll be coming for you anyway. Take on me. Take me on.
0:30
600 mark and win that $100. I really hope you stick around next month when you get hit with that huge $5 bill on Monday. But everybody, thank you for being here. Here's what we're going to do on this episode of Canada's Pinball Podcast. We're going to talk about will pinball machines go the way of the automobile? We love a good cargument. But I want to talk about how long can a pinball machine stay at the same price when it becomes a year old, two years old, and how can these distributors move games that are selling for thousands less on the secondhand market.
1:04
Like imagine if you're sitting on a Guns N' Roses LE and you're trying to sell it for $11,000 firm. And meanwhile, the secondhand market is selling it for $8,000. We're going to talk about that. But before we do that, I'm going to end the show with that kind of discussion. I'm going to go around the pinball horn. We're going to talk about all the news going on in the pinball world. You're not going to have to pay any extra for these. But I do want to say I do applaud everybody getting into the Patreon ring. I think it's great. I think the one hard part is going to be when you ask people to pay money to hear just the scoops.
1:36
Because the problem is after like three weeks, you run out of scoops. You got to just give them their own separate Patreon show like this. So let's start out with this. Let's start out with the fact that Jack Danger is going to be streaming tonight. Freaking Pulp Fiction. The game with maybe the biggest hype other than Foo Fighters coming out of the March Madness. We're going to see Deadflip. I think he's going over to Chicago Gaming Company or he's going to stream it in his studio. But he's going to stream for the world today at 6 o'clock Central Standard Time.

high confidence · Kaneda identifying specific text mismatch in James Bond and expressing confidence in correction

  • Mezel Mod rocket upgrade for James Bond is smaller in diameter than stock Stern rocket, reducing switch registration effectiveness.

    medium confidence · Kaneda citing Pinside thread reports from owner who installed the mod

  • Jersey Jack has not placed a Godfather machine in New York City despite the game's theme, and distributor feedback on sales is contradictory across regions.

    medium confidence · Kaneda reporting outreach to three distributors with conflicting sales assessments

    • “I don't know who to believe about how well Godfather machines are doing... I reached out to one distributor and he said it's not selling. I reached out to a distributor in Europe and he said all Godfather sales have stopped. And then I reached out to a distributor in the US and they said sales are great.”

    Kaneda@ 24:33 — Reveals conflicting sales intel across regions and distributor incentive misalignment

  • “Who in their right mind would ever walk into a distributor and give them $11,000 for a GNR when they could easily find one in great condition for $8,000?”

    Kaneda@ 27:15 — Core market problem: MAP pricing unable to compete with secondary market underselling

  • “Going radio silent, not sharing any information, that's a sign that things are not well in your institution.”

    Kaneda@ 24:08 — Commentary on manufacturing transparency as a health indicator for pinball companies

  • “I think we're going to see games go on sale. I would love it if these sale prices could be more transparent.”

    Kaneda@ 29:53 — Prediction and call for industry-wide pricing transparency and holiday sales model adoption

    • Keith Elwin
    person
    George Gomezperson
    Brian Eddyperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Dutch Pinballcompany
    Haggis Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Multimorphiccompany
    Foo Fightersgame
    James Bondgame
    Pulp Fictiongame
    Scooby-Doogame
    Big Lebowskigame
    Godfathergame
    Galactic Tank Forcegame
  • ?

    product_concern: James Bond playfield text/call-out mismatch (attache case vs briefcase) and Mezel Mod rocket smaller diameter reducing switch registration; Kaneda expects Stern fix post-podcast

    high · Specific text discrepancy identified; Mezel Mod thread reports; Kaneda's confidence in correction

  • ?

    product_launch: American Pinball's Galactic Tank Force production moved from May to June; target issues unresolved after 2–3 year development; distributors uncertain of on-line date

    high · David Fix emails mentioning target bracket fixes; Mr. Pinball Australia now saying June vs May; Kaneda's observation of distributor confusion

  • ?

    business_signal: Haggis Pinball series ticket holders locked into non-refundable deposits for 4–5 future games; Kaneda speculates new game deposits may fund existing production rather than new development

    medium · Kaneda's caution against ordering Centaur before Fathom complete; pattern of boutique manufacturers using next-gen deposits for current-gen fulfillment

  • ?

    collector_signal: Scooby-Doo ~1,969 units creating marketplace oversupply; used units at $1400–$1500 not selling; early depositors facing $1k+ losses as supply exceeds demand

    high · Kaneda's detailed analysis of Scooby-Doo listings, lack of movement, and depositor regret on Pinside

  • ?

    content_signal: Jack Danger streaming Pulp Fiction tonight (6 PM CST) on Deadflip; first professional-quality demonstration of game's audio/call-outs; expected to drive visibility and sales

    high · Kaneda's excitement about stream quality, noting previous poor demo conditions at shows

  • ?

    industry_signal: Stern's elite design team (Keith Elwin, George Gomez, Brian Eddy) contrasted with boutique designers like Marty Robbins lacking similar peer support; major resource disparity

    medium · Kaneda's comparison of design support environments at Stern vs Haggis Pinball

  • $

    market_signal: MAP pricing enforcement hiding true distributor discounts (e.g., James Bond 60th for $16.5k not advertised); industry moving toward 'call for price' opacity instead of transparent sales

    high · Kaneda's observation of deleted price comments, 'call for price' listings, and contrast with auto industry's transparent holiday sales model

    • 2:08
    Pulp Fiction Pinball with all of his great cameras and his audio. And here's why I'm really excited about this stream. I think everyone's forgotten. No one has seen this pinball machine streamed properly ever. We've got that great 20-minute sizzle reel video that Straight Down the Middle did, which made everybody want to buy one. They brought this game to a few pinball shows in which nobody could hear a damn thing. And so this is going to be the first time where we are really going to hear in the best possible way
    2:40
    and see the game in the best possible light. We're going to see if Pulp Fiction, after an hour or two, can keep everybody's interest. Because the part that I'm curious about is, will the call-outs get old? Do they have enough call-outs? Because remember, there's no real original call-outs in this game. Rick and Morty was like all original pinball call-outs combined with all of the different call-outs from the show. We know they have five licensed songs in the game.
    3:10
    I think people are forgetting. Guns N' Roses has 22 licensed songs in the game itself. So will these five songs and will these call outs, and I hope they put this game in R-rated mode, and hopefully Twitch doesn't shut down the stream. But I'm really excited. It's also funny to me that Jack Danger, once again, is going over and helping a competitor sell its product. Now, if you don't know the history, Stern and Churchill cabinets had a falling out.
    3:41
    Churchill used to make all the cabinets and playfield for Stern Pinball, and that changed during Ghostbusters, and that's why the Ghostbusters playfields were horrible, and the cabinets started splitting. It's such an indicator of how powerful Stern is. It's the ultimate flex in all of pinball. Think about it. We're going to let you take our designer to help you sell your game, and we won't even care about it because he has sold us so many Foo Fighter machines, it doesn't even matter. They will let Jack Danger sell everybody else's product.
    4:13
    That's the ultimate flex happening in all of pinball. And I know some of you are like, well, you know, he's going to stream it anyway. Yes, of course. Deadflip is a great stream and Jack has built a huge audience for pinball. And I still think he is the greatest ambassador in all of pinball right now. I think he does great streams. I think he's very funny. He's very personable. And also he's the only man that's almost as handsome as Kaneda. All right. So that's tonight. So mark your calendars. I will be in that stream watching it with all of you. All right, so what's going on in pinball? Let's go around the horn.
    4:44
    So Stern Pinball, so Foo Fighter LEs are arriving, but I've also noticed this. There are people that are upset who ordered a Foo Fighter LE. Do you know why they're upset? Because some people are getting their premium machines before they got their LE. Now look, this is like, whoa, what's going on here, right? It's usually Stern makes the pro, then they make all the LEs, and then they make the premium. And I tend to look at this not like a bad thing. I think what's happening is simply this. Both LEs and premiums are arriving, wait for it, at the same time.
    5:18
    And this is why Stern is the master of manufacturing. Because what's the commonality between Foo Fighter LE and Foo Fighter Premium when the game is on the line? It's the exact same game. There is nothing they need to change. The play field is exactly the same on both. all the toys all the mechs all the art everything is the same so stern pinball can just have a country mile of foo fighters being built and all they have to do is change the apron and put them
    5:50
    into a different cabinet and that takes place at the end of the line and then they're putting foo fighters with all of its features in both le and premium cabinets and they're getting them out the door. Super smart. You know, you got to think about Jersey Jack with Godfather because they changed the artwork. They can't run them on the same line. They've got to like do an LE line and they've got to do a separate CE line. Stern Pinball is so smart. They realize that the efficiencies in manufacturing is where all of the pinball battleground is taking place. I don't
    6:25
    think it's a negative thing at all. And I think it's fun to see all of these Foo Fighters get out to people. This game right now is going to be the game of the year. I mean, all of the feedback on it is tremendous. All of the good energy and vibes around this game are incredible. I'm really not hearing people say much negative stuff about the game. The upper play field does not slow down the game itself. This game is really a great game. And if it wasn't a great game, we know that we would hear from more people on pin side the issues with the game. So well done, Stern Pinball. You
    6:58
    are once again crushing it. Another thing I saw in the Foo Fighters thread, this is going to be a weird thing. I'm going to talk about pinball and the bulge. So Stern pinball has two types of legs and they have legs where the bolts go into it are a little bit flatter and then legs where there's a bulge where the washer actually sits more flush with the main bolt. Now traditionally Stern has given the nicer legs with the big bulge to the LE machines and they've given the more subtle bulge to the premium machines.
    7:29
    I can't even believe I'm using this terminology, but now we're seeing premiums with the LE Bulge. I have no idea why this even matters. I think I need to make a T-shirt. My premiums bulge is as big as your LE Bulge, and I think I should sell that T-shirt. All right, the other thing happening with Foo Fighters, and if you have one coming, I think a lot of people are tinkering with the sound and the equalizer in the game itself. And so if you have one coming, I would check out the Foo Fighters thread. There are people that are posting the best settings to
    8:02
    get the best sound from the machine It feels like when you buy a new TV and you wondering like what the best picture Like what do I do And then you go on the internet and people tell you here what you need to have the brightness and the contrast and the sharpness And I think that is happening with this game. All right, moving on from Foo Fighters, let's talk a little bit about James Bond. Now, James Bond is a game where every code update, James Bond fans are getting more excited. And I want to just say for the record, I hope every single one of you who has a James Bond, who is a
    8:34
    James Bond fan, I hope each and every one of you are super happy in the end. I think there's this misconception that because I call out Stern Pinball for selling you a game that is incomplete because I've jumped on a James Bond when it's incomplete and I don't have a lot of fun playing an incomplete game. And so I say that. And then you get this weird response from people who have bought the game. They're like, he's going to be wrong. And in the end, everyone's going to eat crow
    9:05
    and this game is amazing. And my whole thing is this. I think a game should be amazing on the day they take your money. I think a game should be amazing on the day they sell it to you. And if more of these early adopters would stop buying everything before the game is complete, guess what Stern Pinball would have to do? They would have to release the game when it is complete. If people just simply closed their wallets on these incompleted games and they sat and nobody was buying them, it would make Stern learn a lesson.
    9:37
    It's weird that we're always on the side of the manufacturer. Like we're helping them keep their line moving. We're helping them fulfill their contractual obligation to the license holder at the expense of our very own experience with the machine. and it's just a really weird thing. In no other hobby would this happen. All right, a couple more things about James Bond that are interesting. So on the play field itself, it has the insert or it says attache case, right?
    10:09
    James Bond was a fancy spy. It says attache case. That's when you know you're baller, right? Ballers, they have attache cases and they don't order filet mignon. on. A baller like James Bond orders Chateaubriand, right? It's just a more fancy way to say the same thing. But here's what's interesting. On the play field, it says attache case. Now, when the call out in the game happens, it says briefcase. I'm just asking you, wouldn't that annoy you? Do you
    10:40
    think Stern's going to fix this? Do you think the call out should actually reflect what's written on the play field? I think so. And I think they might address it after hearing Canada's pinball podcast. I want this to be one of the things I correct. He got them to say attache case. All right. Another thing I've been reading in the James Bond thread, and I hope you find a lot more interesting tidbits in this podcast because I did spend a lot of time going through Pinside. As painful as it is, Canada has extracted things you are just not going to see anywhere else. All right. So here's the thing. If you bought the Mezel Mod rocket upgrade for James Bond,
    11:15
    Be careful because an owner who put it into their machine was realizing the rocket wasn't registering as well as the stock stern rocket. And here's why. The mesomod rocket is a little bit smaller than the stern stock rocket. And because it's smaller, the diameter of the rocket is smaller. It's not hitting those switches as well as the stock stern rocket. So just be careful. If you're going to put that mod into your machine, read the thread.
    11:47
    I think you're going to have to increase the diameter of that mod so it works as well as the Stern one does. All right. That's what's going on over there. All right. Let's talk quickly about Dutch Pinball. So we're all really waiting for the game after the Big Lebowski. Like, that's true. Everyone wants to see what Barry's got next. It's a sci-fi movie game. But here's what I've been reading about. People are wondering, when I order a Big Lebowski today, how long is it going to take for me to get my machine? Now, the answer from Cointaker, who is the exclusive distributor of this game, is that it will take 12 months for you to get your The Big Lebowski.
    12:23
    Now, from owners, if you hear their stories, actual buyers are saying it's more like 15 months from the date they ordered their machine to the date they get their machine. It's a long wait. It's a really long wait. It's also crazy that this game has been part of the pinball community now for the last 10 years. 10 years into this game's production cycle, and if you order one today, it's almost a year and a half wait to get it. Can you imagine if 10 years from now you wanted a Foo Fighters pinball machine, it would take you over a year to get it.
    12:59
    and if it was the only game Stern had been making for 10 years. Now, we know Dutch has had issues with manufacturing, but here's what makes me nervous about getting to their next game. If a big Lebowski is over a year and a half away from getting it or over a year from getting your game, how are they ever going to just be done with Lebowski purchases? How are they ever going to just finish Lebowski manufacturing? One of the things everyone needs to be reminded of, They've never set what the limit of games they will make.
    13:30
    Here's what I think Barry needs to do. He needs to just cap this thing. We have to make this many new games to then make all of the EA guys who bought their games whole. And then he needs to cap it, like whether it's 2,000 units or 1,500 or 1,000. I don't know what it is, but I just think it's like this weird thing now where I wouldn't even order a new one. And I'll tell you why I wouldn't get a new one. Here's why I would just get a used one. The new ones are going to have the new Mirko playfields that have the art removed around the post.
    14:01
    So that's not going to look as good. It might hold up better. But the original Big Lebowski's, like, those playfields were great. It had artwork under the post. And that's because Europe changed its laws on the formula for, like, clear coats. And now Mirko games have been falling apart ever since. And sure, you could remove the art from around the post. But come on, what's up with that? Like, how is that the only solution? and also you could go get a big Lebowski now and maybe pay 500 or a thousand over sticker for one
    14:31
    and then have the game right we all think we're gonna live forever we all think we're gonna have the next 12 to 15 months you might not you might not make it there and I don't know about you but waiting 15 months for a game that's been out 10 years I would just go grab a used one because I want to see Dutch get to their next game you know and that's that all right speaking of next game so haggis pinball so i am hearing and i'm telling you right now their next game is centaur marty robbins's game is war of the world i think everyone has forgotten that i told you that he
    15:04
    is working on the war of the worlds probably the orson welles radio address war of the worlds it is open ip i don't think they're really ever going to get to marty robbins's game i don't i think for this company to stay around they're going to have to sell stuff where they know people want to buy it. And I don't know what Marty's design skills are like. Do you think he's on par with a guy like Jack Danger? I doubt it. And also this, think about it. If you're Marty Robbins and you're designing a game at Haggis Pinball, who's walking into the room to help you make that game better?
    15:39
    Think about it. Who's going to help you from a design standpoint, make that game better? He's got his design. He's got his whitewood right there. He looks over and he sees the design geniuses that made the game Celts. You're like, what? Celts? Meanwhile, Jack Danger walks into Stern Pinball with some design ideas. He walks over and there's Keith Elwin. There's George Gomez. There's Brian Eddy. Hey guys, what do you think of this? He's got the most talented people in the history of pinball by his side to make sure the game amazing And that why Foo Fighters is amazing It not just all jack Stern Pinball has the most talented people helping make these games amazing And so look I don think we gonna get Marty War of the Worlds
    16:23
    And the next game is Centaur. Now here's the big question. Do you think they're gonna try to take early deposits on Centaur, Centaur or Centaur, before they make all of the fathoms? Because we both know that they've still got a lot of fathoms to make. They probably have a few more hundred fathoms. So I think if they announce game two and ask for a deposit, I wouldn't do it. And I'll tell you why I wouldn't do it. We've seen this before.
    16:54
    I feel like all these boutiques that are struggling with manufacturing, they're going to take that new deposit money and they're going to use it to build the fathoms. I want to see Haggis Pinball show us. They don't need the next game's deposit to finish this game's run. So we will see what happens, but I would just be cautious if I were you, and I feel bad for those guys that bought that series ticket deposit where they already gave a deposit that's non-refundable for the next four to five games from Haggis.
    17:26
    Wow. I mean, that's the biggest leap of faith in the history of pinball deposits. All right, let's go on to American Pinball next. American Pinball. So David Fix is emailing people. He's emailing distributors and saying we are working on a wait for it a fix of galactic tank force He is telling people that they are going to fix those targets. They are going to create a bracket to fix those targets I don't think there's anything they can do people when you think about how a target works how a leaf switch works
    17:56
    How are you going to make a bracket? That stops that leaf switch and that target from bending in every single pinball game a target will move a target will bend. That is why nobody puts targets that close to the flippers. Nobody puts five targets in a row straight up the middle of the game where it's going to get pummeled. They've been working on this game for two to three years, two to three years, and they never figured this out in any of the testing, none of the whitewood stage of this game. And so he's
    18:31
    saying we're going to fix it. All right, well, we'll see what they do. Here's the other part. Nobody knows when this game is going on the line. I saw Mr. Pinball Australia is taking orders on this game and telling everybody production begins in June. Okay, I thought it was May. Now it's June. And I have a real problem with this whole thing about like, why are these distributors bombarding people, spamming everybody with for sale ads, and none of them know when the game's actually going to be on the line. None of them. It just annoys me. I will never celebrate a company like American Pinball
    19:02
    who doesn't need to do it this way. They don't. They're being bankrolled by AIMTROM and Mukesh. They know the way the industry works. If you want to get excitement for your game, you're going to have to get the game on the line within the first couple months of the game being revealed, and they're not doing it. I don't like the way CGC is handling Pulp Fiction. I don't like the way American Pinball is handling Galactic Tank Force. All right, let's go to Spooky Pinball now real quick. So Spooky Pinball. So what's it like in the spooky thread these days? So I've been reading it and it's a combination of two things.
    19:36
    The Scooby-Doo thread can be summarized like this. Some people are loving the game. They love Scooby-Doo. And some people are having some quality issues with the game. Now we know that quality issues have followed Spooky Pinball for a very long time. The good news is this. They are in the thread. They are responding to people. I saw that Spooky Luke himself said he listens to Kaneda. Luke, thank you for being here, brother. I want to say this. Does this game have some quality issues?
    20:08
    Yes. Is this Spooky Pinball's best shooting game to date? Yes. Is it their best theme integrated pin to date? I would say after Rick and Morty. But here's the thing about quality. They've made a few hundred games. If five people's games are having quality issues, You are going to hear from those five people on Pinside over and over and over again. I will say it never ceases to amaze me that when someone has an issue with the game, it seems like they go to Pinside first and complain there and share their problem as if Pinside
    20:44
    will be able to fix their problem better than the company itself. I think the fair thing to do is if you have a pinball problem, at least give the pinball company 48 hours to get back to you and help you before you run to Pinside with your pitchfork. Now, the reason why people like to go to Pinside, it's therapeutic, right? When something happens to you that you feel you've been wronged, it's nice to go to a place where people are going to rally around your complaints. And that is what Pinside is great for. My favorite is when someone
    21:17
    gets a new stern and it's like a Sunday at noon and it's like, I've got an issue and man, I'm going to go here right now and just scream at the clouds. And it's like, bro, it's Sunday. Wait till Monday. Reach out to Stern during normal business hours. Turn off your machine that's having an issue and just be patient. But none of us in pinball can be patient. I've been there. When something breaks in your game, you want it fixed in like 30 seconds or you want to raise cane. The other thing I'm seeing in the spooky thread is this.
    21:49
    and people are starting to realize this and they should have taken my advice. A lot of people are saying, look, I'm seeing there are some quality issues. My game is like 1,200. I've got a year to wait to get it. I wanna let go of my spot. I should have waited and saw what the game was like. And now that I'm seeing these quality issues, I wanna back out. Now look, all those deposits, non-refundable. I'm starting to see more and more people realize and say this, that this is the last time I will ever give a non-refundable deposit on a game,
    22:23
    especially a game that's never going to be hard to get. They're making 1969 of these machines. There will be so many Scooby-Doos available, it won't even be funny. And then when you go to the marketplace, now it's a race to like losing at least $1,000 on your deposit because there are so many Scooby-Doos available to buy for like $1,400, $1,500, and none of them are selling. Remember that none of these are selling, which means that's not even close to the price someone's
    22:53
    willing to give you. None of them are moving. If you want to get out of your Scooby-Doo right now, I think you take a $1,000 loss and you get out of it and you learn a lesson. And think about how crazy it is, how these guys will lose $1,000 and get nothing for it. Yet, Canadian Pinball Podcast is $60 a year for most people. And I've been telling everybody not to rush in. If they had just given Kaneda 60 bucks, they would have saved themselves $940
    23:24
    if they just took my advice. What's going on at Multimorphic? Nothing much over than the fact that Jerry shared a picture of people making his product, which is great. We saw the assembly line. We saw the people inside Multimorphic. He highlighted three women who were like critical to the manufacturing of the platform. And I just want to say this. I just want to see more of this. I love seeing the men and women who make these games. I love seeing Stern's factory tour. If you're a pinball company, it will only benefit you to open up your factory and show
    24:02
    your customers who these people are, how they are working hard, what it looks like behind the scenes. Going radio silent, not sharing any information, that's a sign that things are not well in your institution. What else is happening in pinball? Who have I left out? Godfather. I haven talked about Godfather today All I going to say about Godfather before I talk about pinball prices being on sale is this I don know who to believe about how well Godfather machines are
    24:33
    doing. I'm not going to name names, but I reached out to one distributor and he said it's not selling. I reached out to a distributor in Europe and he said all Godfather sales have stopped. And then I reached out to a distributor in the US and they said sales are great. So I don't know who to believe. We will see. I don't see a ton of unboxings. I think everyone's waiting to see these collector's editions get out the door. And I'm excited to just play the freaking game. There is still not a single Godfather in New York City. Until this game gets to where the actual
    25:07
    movie takes place, I don't know what to do. I don't even know how to feel about this game. I can't review it for you. I can't do anything. I'm not traveling hours to play the game. Jersey Jack, set up a freaking godfather in New York City. Thank you. All right, so let's end this show talking about how long can this relationship between distributors and manufacturers last where manufacturers require a distributor not to sell the product below a certain price.
    25:40
    I think it's called like map pricing. Now look, now that there's nine pinball companies selling games to everybody, now that these companies are making thousands of each game, and now that there are so many marketplaces to go buy used pinball machines, right? Like nobody buys a game on eBay, but Facebook marketplace is great. And with almost every game out there, if you want to get one, you've got two options, right? They might still be making this game new in box. So you could either buy the game new in box or you could buy it used.
    26:13
    I mean, those are your two options, really. I think this industry is long overdue for something called a sale. And we saw it with the Pinball Brothers and Alien. I don't think I've ever seen another pinball company announce a reduction in the price of the game. And they gave, what, $426 off. Not a lot off. That's not enough. I mean, no one's like, now I'm going to get one, right? Who says, hey, honey, I can save $426. The only thing I got to do is now write a check for $11,000.
    26:44
    Because we're not seeing discounts of $400 or $500, people. We're seeing games go for $3,000 or $4,000 less sometimes. Let's take Guns N' Roses LE. There are distributors sitting on those games, new in box. And they're being told by Jersey Jack Pinball, you have to sell this game for $11,000 firm. Now, there are distributors that will do backdoor deals. They will take cash on the table and they will get the game out the door and they will sell below the map price.
    27:15
    But who in their right mind would ever walk into a distributor and give them $11,000 for a GNR when they could easily find one in great condition for $8,000? Most of these games are really well maintained. It's actually, I always think, better when someone has set the game up. they fixed all the issues and you can probably get a game where someone's maybe installed the cliffies they might have soldered some things that have broken and you get a game that's been played a little bit right because it's like a new car it's like that break-in period when you open
    27:48
    a new pinball machine and you play it 500 times certain things that are going to get loose will get loose certain things that might break will break and it's great to have the original owner deal with all those headaches and then buy the game and have a game that's actually probably more bulletproof than a brand new game. The only thing you won't have is a perfect play field, but who cares, right? We got to get over that. Like you're going to have some dimples on your game. But I think we're going to get to a point now where like, if you want to buy a new in box GNR, they've got to sell that game for a thousand off. Like it's last year's model. It's not even
    28:21
    last year's model. It's like two years ago. If you want to buy a Toy Story LE, no way you're going to sell them for sticker price. And the same is true with Stern pinball machines as well. if you want to buy a premium of Rush, who's going to go in and buy a Rush premium for the new premium price of like $10,000 when I'm seeing Rush LEs now sell for $10,000? And then I'm seeing Stern is going to continue to make more and more Godzilla premiums,
    28:53
    Mandalorian premiums, and all of those premiums are $10,000 new in box. I don't know how they're going to do it. I really don't know how they're going to maintain this whole system. I think the real pressure is going to be on the distros. I think these guys are going to start having a ton of inventory. Some of this stuff is going to move like hotcakes, but the stuff that doesn't move like hotcakes that just sits there for a while, it's going to eat away at all of their profits. If you're a distro, you ideally want to have as little as you can,
    29:25
    I would assume, in the factory. Every time a game comes from a manufacturer to you, it's immediately on a truck to its new owner. And I heard that a lot of distros just drop ship the games from the manufacturer. The game doesn't even go to the distro. It goes right from Stern or Jersey Jack to the customer. That would be the ideal situation. What you don't wanna do if you're a distro is look down and see 10 Toy Story CEs or 20 Guns N' Roses LEs. So I don't know. I think we're gonna see games go on sale.
    29:55
    I would love it if these sale prices could be more transparent. I know that distros were selling people James Bond 60th for $16,500. Stern would not allow that distro to advertise that price. That's why you see all the call for price, call for price, call for price. I think the call for price stuff is bogus. So let's say I call for price and you tell me $16,500. And then I post it on your own page. Like people ask, like how much? You know, they delete your comments. Like we got to live in this like pretend vacuum where we're not allowed to share the price.
    30:28
    You know, then you look at the auto industry and all they do is run sale prices around holidays, Memorial Day sale, Labor Day sale, holiday sale. And I think pinball is going to come to that. I think a distro that's sitting on like six, seven figures in inventory is going to have like the freaking coin taker holiday sale. Every game $500 off. Why can't they say that? Why can't they do that just to move inventory? There's too much power by the manufacturers. and like, look, let's put the pressure on the distros
    31:01
    to go to the manufacturers and say, hey, you can't do this anymore. You can't tell us I can't sell your product below a certain price. I need to be able to. Even if they have to lose money on some games, they have to get it out the door because ultimately it comes down to this. Wouldn't a distro rather just break even on a game he's been sitting on for a year and sell it at cost? Some distros want to sell James Bond 60th at $15,000. You know why? Because they cut Stern a check for $15,000 and they don't want it to sit there for another
    31:36
    six months. Just let me get my money back. It's clear I'm not going to make the kind of profit I thought I was on the game. It's not worth my energy. I could take that $15,000 that's stuck in this James Bond 60th. I could go order with that money a Stern LE that I could sell much easier. everybody thank you for being a member of canada's pinball podcast enjoy your friday and we will talk to you real soon tune in tomorrow for the saturday morning spectacular it's going to be a lot of fun it's a lot of fun having you here i hope you're entertained i still think this is the best pinball
    32:09
    podcast and the numbers don't lie we've got the most subscribers later everybody you