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Episode 116 - Pokémon

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·46m 16s·analyzed·Apr 20, 2026
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Pokémon praised as breakthrough hit balancing new-player appeal with skilled-player depth and operator economics.

Summary

Alan and Alex from Wedgehead A A Pinball Podcast discuss the newly released Stern Pokémon pinball machine, praising its design, accessibility, and commercial viability. They contrast it favorably with other recent releases, highlighting its fast gameplay, appropriate ball times, new-player-friendly layout, successful Pokemon collection mechanic, and ability to sustain high play volumes at their Portland location. The hosts credit the co-design collaboration between Jack Danger and George Gomez as key to the game's success.

Key Claims

  • Pokémon is generating 1,000 plays per week at Wedgehead (roughly 53 minutes of play per hour)

    high confidence · Alan (Wedgehead co-owner/operator), direct experience at their location

  • Pokémon plays in under three minutes on average based on their audits

    high confidence · Alan, citing audits from Wedgehead's machine

  • Pokemon licensing integration for collecting Pokemon is not yet in the Insider Connected app but is baked into the game mechanics

    high confidence · Alan and Alex discussing current game state at time of recording

  • This is the first true co-design credit at Stern (unlike Bond and Deadpool which were restarts after designer departures)

    medium confidence · Alan's analysis comparing to prior Stern collaborations

  • Pokémon's two-flipper layout and friendly design was a deliberate choice to appeal to first-time players and new demographics

    high confidence · Alan and Alex discussing design philosophy and operator needs

  • The game is currently at code version .81 (or similar early version) with significant room for updates

    medium confidence · Alex mentioning watching zero tutorials and the game still evolving

  • Pokémon is likely to become Stern's biggest-selling game, potentially surpassing Godzilla if licensing allows

    medium confidence · Alan and Alex prediction based on theme popularity and early reception

  • Early online criticism predicted Pokémon would be a commercial failure, which proved unfounded

    high confidence · Alan recalling pre-release sentiment and contrasting with post-release reality

Notable Quotes

  • “Pokémon feels like a Pokémon game made to sell to Pokémon people. Harry Potter feels like a Harry Potter game made to try to sell to pinball people.”

    Alan (Wedgehead co-host) — Core criticism distinguishing Pokémon's theme authenticity and accessibility strategy from prior major licensed games

  • “This game is fast as fuck to shoot. The shots are exactly where you want to be. They feel fantastic. I love every shot on the game.”

    Alan — Playfield design praise; addresses Alan's known preference for flow-based play and responsive shot layout

  • “I would rather that this layout is something we hate and is approachable by new players than something that's like a dream game for us that's a punishing, mean game. And they managed to give us a very approachable, new player-friendly layout that I am not bored at.”

    Alan — Demonstrates successful balance between operator/location needs and player satisfaction; key design success metric

  • “When Pokémon came out and it's got two posts and people are like, oh, Alan, are you going to disable the post on this? And you're like, I don't need to. I don't need to because they nailed this.”

    Alan — Contrasts with his Jaws modification; shows Pokémon doesn't require operator tweaks to achieve good flow

  • “It plays short in a way that encourages me to play again. Yes. And I think they really nailed this.”

    Alex — Retention and replayability insight; critical for location machine success

  • “This is a fucking game. Like this feels like proper. It just hooks you in. You want to catch the little Pokémon.”

    Alan — Describes core game loop appeal and addictive design element (Pokemon catching mechanic)

  • “We would get a thousand plays a week on our Pokémon machine. It's insane.”

    Alan — Quantifies unprecedented location success relative to other recent releases

  • “It's not like you're only playing E.M.s and solid states. The main thing is I want a game that I can play as a flow player. I like to play on the fly. I like to combo shots. And if you're going to stop the ball, it better be for a big moment.”

Entities

AlanpersonAlex the WaterboypersonJack DangerpersonGeorge Gomezperson[name withheld pending review]personBrian EddypersonPokémongameStern PinballcompanyWedgeheadvenue

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Pokémon released by Stern Pinball; hosts have had three weeks experience at their location with exceptionally high play volume and consistently positive player feedback

    high · Alan: 'Pokémon right now does that. This game is fast as fuck to shoot.' Alex: 'I fucking love it.' Play data shows 1,000 plays/week at Wedgehead

  • $

    market_signal: Pokémon is commercially performing at unprecedented levels for a new game at a location operator, suggesting strong location-based demand and operator confidence

    high · 1,000 plays/week, sustaining 53 minutes/hour utilization at free-play venue; exceeds all prior new games at Wedgehead

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Pokémon achieves fast average play times (under 3 minutes) without feeling punishing or creating cheap drains; balances new-player approachability with skill-based flow mechanics

    high · Alan: 'The game just plays short. But it doesn't feel like mean in a way.' Alex audits show sub-3-minute average times; no excessive ball saves or long cutscenes

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Pokémon prioritizes new-player friendly mechanics (two-flipper fan layout, simple rule set) while maintaining engagement for skilled players through shot combos and Pokemon collection

    high · Alan: 'It is a fan with the center bash... approachable in the Attack from Mars way.' Two-flipper design deliberate choice for location first-time players

  • ?

    design_innovation: Pokémon features a Pokemon collection system where catching Pokemon triggers hurry-ups and combos; implemented in-game but not yet integrated into Insider Connected app due to licensing complexity

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.139

0:00
No, Kenny! These are my spicy, hot Louisiana baked chicken tenders! No, Kenny! Someday I will collect all the Chimpokomon, then I will fight the evil power that will reveal itself once all the Chimpokomon are collected! Aww! No, Kenny, you can't have these chicken tenders because they are mine and I keep mine to myself! Uh-huh! Be sure to tune in tomorrow for another inexplicable episode of Chimpokomon! Hooray! Hey, kids, do you love Chimpokomon? Yes! Well, now you can buy your very own! I've got to buy Chimpokomon! I've got to buy Chimpokomon! I've got to buy Chimpokomon! I've got inspired, I've got inspired. Now you can collect them all. Furry Cat, Donkey Trunk, Pingin, Shoe, Lamptor. Collect them all and you can become Royal Crown Chimpoko Master. Royal Crown Chimpoko Master, holy s***. All the Chimpoko Man are in stores now. Chimpokomon is super you love toy number one. Got to buy a Chimpokomon.
0:49
Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. My name is Alan. I'm your host of this show and one of the owners of Wedge Head, a pinball bar in Portland, Oregon, for which the podcast is named. Join once again in the basement studio my co-host, Alex the Waterboy. How are you doing today? I'm doing good. I'm doing pretty good because we've got a different episode than we normally do coming up. But before we get into that different episode, I've got to plug the coffee, right? Still do that? We still do that on every episode. That's what people come here for. You go to ko-fi.com slash Wedge Head Podcast. If you like the show, you can throw us a few bucks. If you give us anything, you get an invite to our Discord if you want to come in there and hassle us. If you want to, you know, spew some nonsense, if you disagree with our opinions, we'll entertain it for a little bit. We chop it up in the Discord, all sorts of pinball discussion, all sorts of pinball discussion, which leads us into this week's episode. This is a special episode. This is longtime listeners of the show, meh, picked up on something that we don't normally do that, like the other shows, like to do a lot of. Yeah, we generally try to talk about everything other than new games. And specifically news and rumors and hyping up the new games that have just been released. We don't think there's that much value to that necessarily. We don't need to tell you our thoughts on a new game when you can just go play it yourself. And we think that those topics are covered very well by a whole bunch of other shows. It's basically what most other podcasts exclusively talk about. But most other podcasts aren't necessarily run by people that own locations. There are some, but not all of them. And so, yeah, we thought this was one we wanted to weigh in on ourselves. Yeah, there's a very interesting game that Stern just released at the time of this recording. I'm sure y'all have heard of it. It's the most popular license in the entire world. Yeah, it's Pokemon. Yeah, based on the Japanese anime video game collector card series. Yeah, and literal biggest theme, like biggest license in the entire world, bigger than like all the other ones combined, dude. It's just insane. It's fucking, it's Pokemon. And there was a lot of scuttlebutt when this game was rumored. A lot of the old guard didn't like even the concept that one game would come out from a company that wasn't based on an 80s movie. And despite it still being 30 fucking years old and massively like literally more popular than Star Wars, more popular than Harry Potter, more popular than all of the Marvel IP combined. Even then, some guys were mad about it because it was— It wasn't going to resonate with pinball players, I guess. Yeah, people kind of just, like, project their own feelings onto stuff. We harp on this show a lot about, like, wanting to see younger themes, themes that appeal to people outside of the regular pinball stuff, seeing more approachable games with simpler rule sets, seeing more approachable games with simpler play fields, like, all of this stuff. And it's funny because Pokemon got announced and they did it all. They did it. So we've had Pokemon on the floor at Wedge now for about three weeks at the time of this recording. And so we've both gotten to play it. Lots of regulars have come to play it. And, you know, I wanted to do a break in the structure and kind of do a little bit more of a freeform conversation between Alex and myself, because we haven't stopped talking about this game. I think it's special in the pantheon of new games. I think it's different than the other games. Some people are calling it the 10th best game of all time. Some people are saying that.

Alan — Articulates Alan's game design philosophy and how Pokémon achieves it

Jaws
game
Godzillagame
Harry Pottergame
Deadpoolgame
Foo Fightersgame
Dungeons & Dragonsgame
Attack from Marsgame
The Addams Familygame
Bondgame
Electric Batvenue
Insider Connectedproduct
Spike 3technology
Pinsidecommunity
Ritchieperson
Trudeauperson

high · Alan: 'Collecting Pokemon via a same method as collecting trinkets in D&D... boom, they got that right off the bat.' Currently code v0.81 with licensing delay on app integration

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Pokémon represents the first true co-design credit at Stern between Jack Danger (layout/toys) and George Gomez (architecture), contrasting with prior restarts (Bond, Deadpool) after designer departures

    high · Alan: 'This is an actual collaboration... Gomez didn't really change it that much. He just kind of like changed where the captive ball was.' First collaborative rather than replacement design

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Pre-release skepticism from old-guard community about Pokemon theme appeal has reversed dramatically post-launch based on actual player response and commercial success

    high · Alan: 'There were a lot of guys online that thought this was going to somehow be a dud, which sounds comical to me... Now, after post-release, it sounds even funnier.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Pokémon successfully addresses key operator pain points: play time balance enabling high turnover, lack of cutscene delays, player retention through replayability, and broad demographic appeal beyond core enthusiasts

    high · Alan: 'Games that play too long won't make as much money because they physically can't... When you do make a mistake, it's over. Yeah. And so it's like – it's just an interesting one.' Contrast to Jaws requiring modifications

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Pokémon significantly outperforms other recent Stern releases (Jaws, Godzilla) at Wedgehead in terms of play volume and player satisfaction, despite those games being well-received by enthusiasts

    high · Alan: 'We are getting not only more plays than any other new game we've ever seen. Like not even close.' Contrast to Jaws play-time issues

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Pokemon licensing proves complex; full collection tracking unavailable in Insider Connected app at launch, though core game mechanics implemented independently

    high · Alex: 'The caveat, it's not actually in the Insider Connected app yet because the licensing does seem to be a bitch. But it's baked into the game where Pokemon appear.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Old-guard enthusiast community (referenced as skeptical on Pinside) dismissed Pokemon as not resonating with pinball players; location operators and casual players prove them wrong

    medium · Alan: 'There was a lot of scuttlebutt when this game was rumored. A lot of the old guard didn't like even the concept that one game would come out from a company that wasn't based on an 80s movie.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Pre-release concerns about whether Pokémon would appeal to pinball demographics or if it was a mistake; community consensus now sees it as major success

    high · Alan: 'Some people are calling it the 10th best game of all time... it is just an interesting one that we finally got something that's based off the anime of the Pokemon anime.'

    • 4:33
    Yeah, but it really it is a very notable release. I think it's just truly I mean, it's like when you finally get a license like this made. It's like when Harry Potter came out from J.J.P., but this is massively more popular than Harry Potter and also a demographic that hasn't been. We haven't seen any other Japanese IPs other than Godzilla, which is a very Americanized theme at this point. Yeah, he's not even gray anymore. On this side of the pond, he's gray. Yeah, we've changed the color of Godzilla. And Ultraman, I guess I gotta say Ultraman. I just try to pretend that game doesn't exist.
    5:12
    And so it is just an interesting one that we finally got something that's based off the anime of the Pokemon anime. So there were a lot of people that were worried about it not doing well. People thought there were a lot of guys online that thought this was going to somehow be a dud, which sounds comical to me. It sounded funny at the time. Now, after post-release, it sounds even funnier. But you're like, there were a lot of guys that thought it was going to be a dud. Do you think it's a dud? Fuck no, dude. This is going to be the biggest game. Like, Stern has a massive hit in Godzilla. Godzilla, they've talked about how it might end up passing the Addams Family all time, and it probably will. Yeah. Great game. Yeah. People love it. They're making it forever. That's the one thing that's the caveat that this might not pass Godzilla if they can only, depending on the licensing deal. We'll see. But it will absolutely pass it if it gets the chance. Yeah. Because it's not only is it a theme that has resonated, it's still resonating. It's resonating to different generations. I mean, I was the perfect age when Pokemon came out. What was it in 96? Yeah, maybe later in the US, I think like 97, 98. So it's like, you know, I was, you know, nine or 10 years old. Yeah. Like I played the card game. I collected the cards. I've had all the Game Boy games. I watched the anime. You know, I'm going to be 40 next year. Right. So it's like, well, again, this feels like a fresh license, but really it's still in that. It's hitting the spending demographic. Yes. In a way that I don't think a lot of the old guys on like Pinside and stuff understand that you're like, no, this isn't quite the like baby theme you think it is. But it does still appeal to. It is. That's the crazy part about Pokemon is that it's still actively growing in a way that like nothing else, like it hasn't begun to peak. And Nintendo is really trying super hard to grow their media outside of just video games for a long time. Nintendo and Pokemon is kind of its own thing. It's the Pokemon company. It's managed differently than the rest of Nintendo and it's always had TV shows and other media associated with it. But Nintendo is trying very hard right now to grow everything. That's why they're doing theme parks. They're doing the Mario movies. They're trying to expand outside of video games. And it's like those efforts are working greatly. Their company is just getting more and more and more successful. Pokemon is part of that. They've got a Pokemon theme park opening in Japan now. It just keeps going bigger and bigger. So you're like, yeah, man, this thing's got a little bit of a fan base behind it. Well, and we talk a lot about on the show where it's like we need to expand pinball. Pinball needs to be on location. It needs to be in more locations. It needs to appeal to not just the people that are already into it. And so the old guard needs to make room for new stuff that'll bring in new people. And that means themes that appeal to women, themes that appeal to younger people under 50. Yeah. You know, like lots of those things need to happen. And what Stern did with this, I think they deserve a lot of credit for because I think Stern gets a lot of heat from a lot of hardcore enthusiasts or some people that like to make. They're angrier shows to draw attention, and they like to point out the flaws of— It's easy to hate on stuff. It's easy to hate on the execution of a theme or a little manufacturing defect or just how they—you know, like a playfield design or whatever. It's really easy to try to pick apart other people's work, and it's interesting to me because I'm like—none of that seems to—it kind of just, like, bounces off me when it comes to Pokémon, because I'm like, no, man. And they kind of like crushed this in every way. It's fun as hell to shoot. Yeah. So the theme to me is just like, I mean, it is the it's again, it's comical that people didn't think this would hit because there was no way it wouldn't. Everyone could tell you like anyone that's not just completely living in La La Land would be like, no, of course, the biggest license of all time is going to be successful in that regard. But then game and execution wise. Yeah, I think they just we talked about this a lot in our private discord. I know we don't normally do episodes like this on the show. So you and I didn't banter on the show about what we thought a Pokemon game should be or whatever. But we did do that in our discord, which is another reason to join the discord. Yeah, because we have a growing membership group of, you know, cool people from across the world. And we all chop it up in there. And we talk about this stuff of like, and I was very clear on what I thought if I was making a Pokemon game, what it needed to be. Yeah. And I thought it needed to be not what Harry Potter was. I was very clear about that because when I played Harry Potter and I'm not like a Potterhead or anything like that, like I'm not a fan of whatever the theme, but I recognize that it's super big. It's very popular, and people do really like that game. That game is very successful, and I have heard from operators that it does earn very well on location. So, I'm not saying it's not a successful game. They made a Harry Potter game, they sold it to things, but I played that game, and I was like, what the fuck is going on here? Harry Potter feels like a Harry Potter game made to try to sell to pinball people, and Pokemon feels like a Pokemon game made to sell to Pokemon people. Yeah. And they did. And using Insider. Yep. It was like, I think there were a lot of people that wanted to, you know, I want to build a party and train my Pokemon and then fight them in battles. And they're literally describing the gameplay of, like, the mainline Pokemon games. And to me, I was like, that's pie in the sky. You not going to like build a party on your phone and play through an entire Game Boy game via the Pinball machine That was out of that always felt completely outlandish But collecting Pokemon the way you could collect say the trinkets in Dungeons Dragons coincidentally added three months before Pokemon came out or whatever But collecting Pokemon via a same method as collecting trinkets in D&D, that was what I was dreaming for. And I was like, I don't know if they'll be able to do it because I know the Pokemon licensing's a bitch. But that was it. And it's like, boom, they got that right off the bat. With the caveat, it's not actually in the Insider Connected app yet because the licensing does seem to be a bitch. It does seem like, but it's baked into the game where Pokemon appear. Yep. It starts a combo and they're on hurry up so you have to catch the Pokemon. And that's kind of happening independently of the rest of the game. Yes. And it's super fun the way they did that. And it's also like right now the game, I don't even know what it's at, like .81 or whatever. Yeah. I have watched zero tutorials. I watched zero gameplay. That's how I always do this type of thing. I know you're a little bit different than I in that regard. I'll watch some of the official gameplay videos. I don't do any of that. And I walked up and I was like, I get this. You can figure it out. I figured it out. And more importantly, it was fun while I was figuring it out. And Alex and I talk about a lot in this episode, and I've had regulars come in and they ask me, like they always do, they go, Alan, what do you think of New Game? And my response is usually, I played it a few times. This is kind of cool or whatever. Go play it. Tell me what you think. Then we usually chat about the new games or whatever. And it's no secret if you listen to the show for a long time, I'm not the biggest fan of most new games or at least not long term. I don't you won't catch me at wedge playing a lot of the brand new games. Yeah, they're not generally your cup of tea. And they're typically because what are my big complaints there? They play too long. Yeah, it's basically they play too long, which is a multitude of factors, that they're spoon-feeding you too many multi-balls, they're slowing you down for big cutscenes, they're giving you lots of ball saves, too many ball saves. Yeah. That's generally it, and then an overly friendly layout. Overly friendly, and also... It's interesting that the layout matters so much less than, like, their choices in software. For sure. For ball time. For sure. And that's one thing about this game, I don't think there's a layout particularly punishing, but the current code, it doesn't play that. What's great about this game, speaking from an operator and as the player that just wants to play shorter games of pinball in general, again, not saying anything groundbreaking for people that listen to the show, but in case this is the first episode you're listening to, that's sort of how I stand on it. Alex is pretty close, but also likes the new game, has a higher tolerance than I do for that type of shit than I do typically. So when the regulars that come in were asking me, they're like, Alan, what do you feel about Pokemon? I go, I fucking love it. And they're like, I'm surprised. It seems a little bit easy. I have a reputation that I like want get like I just you want games to be like massacistically hard. And you're like, I don't think like a game needs to be because that's the thing. You like a lot of Valley Williams games. It's not like you're only playing E.M.s and solid states. No, I play a lot of games, and I think the main thing is I want a game that I can play as a flow player. I like to play on the fly. I like to combo shots. And if you're going to stop the ball, it better be for a big moment. Yeah. And you better make it special. And Pokemon right now does that. This game is fast as fuck to shoot. Yeah. And it feels great. Get a shot. The shots are exactly where you want to be. They feel fantastic. I love every shot on the game. They all feel good. And people will say, it's just a fan layout. Fan layouts are fucking fun. Yeah, man. When they're done well. You go back, you look at the top 10 best games of all time. There's a lot of fans on that layout. There's a lot of fans. There's a lot of fan layouts on that list. And to make sure, to make a Pokemon game that you know is going to go on location, that you know first time players, the first game of pinball they're going to be playing is this game. You make it a two flipper game. Good call. That was a good call. I didn't finish my thought earlier, but we were saying in the discord the the code was a big one. We wanted to collect Pokemon. They nailed it. The next one that kept coming up with me and you, and I think both of us said this multiple times, was we would rather that this layout is something we hate and is approachable by new players than something that's like a dream game for us. That's like a punishing, mean game. And they managed to give us a very approachable, new player-friendly layout that I am not bored at. Like, I really enjoy shooting it. It's a fun—it's, like, approachable in the good way. It's approachable in, like, the Attack from Mars way. This is a very attack-y layout. You know, it is because it is a fan with the center bash, and it's like—but it works so well. It's so much fun. You don't feel like – it's like when I drain, it's because I made a bad mistake. Nothing ever – like you don't get punished for – It's not cheap. It's not cheap drains, but it doesn't play that long. Yeah. Because they're not giving you that many ball saves, so when you do make a mistake, it's over. Yeah. And so it's like – it's just an interesting one because it was like, oh, shit. They did better. I couldn't have hoped. I really couldn't have hoped for better. And it also, to me, just as a pinball nerd, when the first images leaked, I was immediately like, oh, shit. It's full of like little references to stuff. The fucking – because it's got the big game crossover jump ramp. It's got the little – or the game show. Game show. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Game show. Crossover jump ramp. It's got the Judge Dread, captive balls, cascading into the junkyard middle. Just all the little shit. It's cool. It's got the whirlpool from Creature. Yep. Yeah. It's all just – it's kind of like full of like little like nods that you can tell Pinball Player made it. It looks kind of basic, but it's a blast to shoot. And it also feels dynamic with the center bash toy. It's got a center shot, which you know how I harp on center shots, and the bash toy will raise up the Meowth balloon. It doesn't really look like a balloon. That's one thing. They're like, it's the Meowth blimp, and you're like, it's a Meowth bash toy with a little thing hanging under it. I don't think you'd ever show me that. I'd be like, that's a hot air balloon. I don't know. But that raises up out of the way, and there's a shot behind it. But that shot's so far back there that it's not that easy to hit. It's like fairly, it's like especially if you're playing in a multiball and you're trying to get control, you're like they made this game like somewhat difficult. The thing is, is in the right ways, it's good. As an operator, I think they like it feels like Pokemon. It looks like Pokemon. It sounds like Pokemon. All that shit's great. The sculpts in it are great. Oh, the sculpts are top notch. Like they're very good.
    18:44
    And the sculpts are all in the pro. Yeah. OK, that's what we'll get to that in a second. And they do, they just do all that great. Two flipper games, simple. The rule set's simple, but it allows a skilled player like me or like Alex, we can play this game and just have a blast hit ripping combos. And they each have like on the pro, there's a stop post on each ramp and there's well and then it turns into sort of like a lift ramp catch on the left side on the premium. So it has a stop for when you make the catch of a Pokemon. But other than the one time it starts the Pikachu multiball and for catching a Pokemon, the rest of the time the ball never stops on the ramps. Yeah. Which, again, I'm going to bring up a game that I talk about kind of a lot, and it's a game that a lot of people really love, and it's Jaws. Now at Wedge, I famously made a mod to our Jaws, where I disabled the up post in the in lanes. Because on Jaws, Jaws is a fucking fun game to shoot. All the shots chained to each other, it's another fan layout. It's a friendly Elwynn layout. It is a really fun game to shoot. And all the but the problem with that game is plays fucking forever and it stops the ball all the goddamn time. So instead of being able to rip shot, shot, shot, shot, shot. Yeah, you hit a shot. Stop. Stop. And you hit a shot and then you maybe combo one and then it stops. And it stops. And it shows you a cut scene and everyone's like, oh, you can skip this cut scene. Not really. You kind of you're kind of like chimp flipping to try to get it to cut. Click, click, click, click. It's just lagging. It's done. But it's like at that point, you're kind of like out of the moment. You're like ripping shots with like a one second break in between them is a lot different than ripping them back to back. Dude, I wish it was one second. Like when you actually play that game, yes, it allows you to skip the 10 second clip, but it only allows you to skip five seconds of the clip. Yeah. Like it's it's a lot. It's a lot of that. And that's a great game. It's cinematic. I'm not going to say that people love it, but it's not what I'm excited to play. And it's weird because you're like when Pokemon came out and it's got two posts and people are like, oh, Alan, are you going to disable the post on this? And you're like, I don't need to. I don't need to because they nailed this. And I'm going to say this not only to me as a player that just prefers to give me the fucking ball. I want to play the game like I'm here to play pinball. I like to see the ball move fast. I like to see it whip around these shots. But also as an operator, I am concerned about a new game going on the floor. It needs to play fast enough that people can play the fucking game. Yeah, it needs to turn over. It needs to turn over. There needs to be a ride capacity per hour for the new game. Some games fail at this. Some popular enthusiast games that people buy for their home fail at this miserably. Yeah. And so then you try to buy these games and put them on location and you're like, hey, people like it or whatever. And it's new, but I spent a bunch of money on this in three months. It's the shine's going to wear off. It's going to start dipping in its earnings. So I need to make hay when it's fucking time to make hay. You want games to I mean, it's just it's pretty simple that games that play too long won't make as much money because they physically can't inflating and inflating ball times with with watching TV clips certainly doesn't help anything. And the other big thing is when you have new players, if they're playing pinball, they don't look up at the screen at all, and they're totally confused when the ball stops. And they're like, what's going on? What's going on? I just had my brother here recently, and he was playing Stern Godzilla, and he shot the building, gets stuck by the Magna Grabber or whatever. And he's just sitting there clicking away, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, as fast as he can. And he's like, what's it doing? What's it doing? And I'm like, oh, if you look at the screen, it'll get him to tell you. And then it looks at the screen, and it's like rattling off some bonus counter. And he's like, I don't, he's like, why is it not giving it back? Yes. And you're like, that's like indicative, that's a, for reference, a 37-year-old man, this isn't like a 14-year-old kid. Yeah. You're like, no, this is like an adult reaction to the ball being out of your hands. And this is what, this is what I want to talk about is when I look at the audience on our game, we're getting not only more plays than any other new game we've ever seen. Yeah. Like not even close Like not even close We are a free play location We are open seven days a week but we not open super long hours You know we not somewhere like the Electric Bat where they open like 20 hours a day We open like seven to 12 hours a day 12 hours only on the weekends you know seven hours a day We were getting a thousand plays a week on our Pokemon machine.
    23:30
    It's insane. Someone did the math in our Discord and we're like, oh, it's getting played 53 minutes out of every hour to meet those numbers. And the thing about this game is it can get played that much. Jaws cannot. And so that's the difference. And the thing is, when people walk away from Jaws, they have a good time because they don't feel like they got it. There's no cheap drains in Jaws. There's no cheap drains in Pokemon. Yeah, I don't think people feel gypped. No. Despite the playtime being shorter. No, because what it does is it doesn't feel mean, but it doesn't overstay its welcome. Yeah. And that's what makes it fucking great. It also feels like you can do better. Yes. At least for me. Every time I play it, I'm like, oh, God, that wasn't very good. And then I realized, oh, the game's actually playing. Like when I my first day playing this thing, I just kind of thought I was having like I was just like, I'm not playing that good today. Like I should be doing better. I should be like being able to like beat this. Like I'm a decent player. I play a lot of pinball. And then after seeing the audits in your audits were less than three minutes. Yeah. And I was like, OK, I'm like I'm on track. Like I'm not out. You know, it's not like just me struggling. You're like everybody's kind of like you're like the game just plays short. But it doesn't it doesn't feel like mean in a way. It doesn't play short in a way that discourages me. It plays way in a way that it plays short in a way that encourages me to play again. Yes. And I think they really nailed this. I think Gomez stepping in to help this design. I just want to say I like Jack Danger's game for his first two games a lot. His first two Cornerstone games. I actually like his home edition game a lot. It's a lot like his home game. Like a very fun. So I'm a big Jack Danger fan. I know you are as well. Yep. They have a little, they got some character to them. They got some interesting stuff. They got some flavor. And they require a little, they require a fine setup sometimes. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta mess with the setup and especially. And things take a little getting used to. It might take 10 games for me. If I haven't played Foo Fighters in a while, your food just hit the floor again. And I used to crush that game. I don't know if you'll, I don't know if you'll remember when it was new, I was genuinely good at Foo Fighters. I think I got the score of the month on it. And now I'm like, I can't find the fucking They're kind of like goofy. And that's why I like that. Like personally, I'm like, I like that challenge. That's not encouraging for new people, though. Yeah. In this game, it's got Jack Danger flavor. I think he understood the assignment from what I've heard from Gomez. He didn't really change it that much. He just kind of like changed where the captive ball was. But you can tell it got the once over from Gomez. I think they give each other co-design credits. I personally, and I love a lot of Gomez games, but also like I would love to see this happen again. Yeah, I would love to see Gomez and Jack as a team. I think it's interesting seeing the first co-design credit that we have because there's been other games at Stern. Bond was one that Ritchie started and then he left midway through development and it was a clean slate. Gomez just started from scratch. Likewise, Deadpool, when Trudeau went to prison, they just threw away the old design. And Gomez just started from scratch. And this is not like that. This was an actual collaboration. And it kicks ass, dude. It makes me I'm like, now I want to see like an Elwyn Borg collaboration or something. Yeah, I would like I don't think we're likely to see anything like that. No, it does make me think I'm like, because this one kind of hits. I think in particular, Jack being a big fan of Deadpool. He always says that's his favorite game. Yeah, I'm as working there. It's like Gomez is running the whole company. I get like some kind of feeling that Jack gets like a kickback from every Deadpool they sell. The way he fucking promotes Deadpool, I think he's getting – they're like, we'll give you five bucks for every Deadpool you sell, and he's got – I'm going to sell 20,000 of them.
    27:20
    But I think that George is so responsible for so much of the company that it doesn't make sense for him to be a full-time designer or to do it that often. And I think in this – He's got bigger shit to do. In the same way that, like, Jack wanted to focus on a different role, something where he could stream more often and create more content, video content, all that stuff that he's so good at. He's good at? Yeah. But it's like, God damn, you guys are both, you guys bring such interesting ideas and you make such interesting games. And then this one where it's kind of like they collabed more, I was like, dude, this is so fucking good. It's fun. It's so much fun. Which is the most important thing a pinball machine has to be is fun. Yeah, lately I've been going on about how some games feel gamier than others, and this feels like a game. It's like, I think Brian Eddy, fuck it, I think he gets that. I think Brian Eddy gets just game design in general. I think Brian has proven that because he designed successful arcade games, he designed successful video games, and he's designed very successful pinball machines. Some of them are the best games in the world, best games of all time. But and I think this is like one of those ones where you're like, this is a fucking game. Like this feels like proper. Like it feels like you're not I don't know. It just something about it like hooks you in. You want to catch the little pokey men. Yeah, you want to catch the little dudes, the little dudes. They're running around. You don't like I'll drop everything I'm doing just to try to catch them. It's very addicting in a way that not all pinball machines are. And I think the combination of these two guys was just perfect on it. You know, I just wanted to do an episode where we talked about this. And like I said, I know we're a free play location and we get a lot of plays on your games anyway. It's also worth noting your free play location that is co-owned by a guy that runs a route. Yeah. So you have a vested interest in games doing well on route too. Yeah. Because Rhodes still runs a route and he has three Pokemon right now. I'm sure he'll end up with fucking five of them. Dude, because if I was an operator, I think every location I had games, I would be getting a Pokemon right now. And I'm going to say the same thing. And what we're saying with this episode is we're an unsponsored podcast. We didn't go to the media day. Yeah, we don't really do this. We don't. I'm not shilling for a game. Yeah, we don't get kickbacks like like fucking like dead flip like Jack Danger gets when he sells.
    29:36
    We don't talk about that kind of stuff. And I want to keep our show like free of that kind of stuff. This is not something we're going to do a lot. But I do feel like when you live through a historical moment. Yeah, you see one. This was them making a location game and doing it full effort. This was like there were no concessions made to appease the home buyers. This is a location game, and it's going to kill. It's crushing on location. And if the demand for it is killing, like it's just – this is – I talk to people that work in Stern, and it's selling well. Yeah. And it's doing extraordinarily well with every operator I've ever talked to. That's the funny part. We haven't seen one yet because even with like big, big earners, other games, you can usually find one in our Discord. We have quite a few operators in there that are like, oh, that doesn't actually do that well for me. Like we got somebody in there that they've got a Godzilla and it doesn't really do particularly well for them. It's OK, but it's not like notable. Yeah. And then it's like, but everyone with a Pokemon is like, oh, geez, this is by, you know, it's different. Yeah, it's different. And we feel that, and I wanted to be, since we have a platform, and it feels like a historical moment, and I wanted to talk about it. And I just wanted to give Stern kind of kudos for it, because not even that long ago, maybe, I don't know, like two months ago, I recorded a podcast when you were out sick with another operator where we're like, hey man, we're not really getting games with us in mind. Yeah. And then we knew Pokemon was coming and I'd hope that this it would come out like this. But this exceeded my expectations. It would have been so easy for this to turn into another, you know, Harry Potter, another home collector game. Yeah. And it would have sold well and it would have still done well on location. But I think we've got something here that actually has a chance at like helping the hobby. Yes, I think it's going to grow the hobby. Obviously I've noticed that we're seeing people that I've never seen before. Dude, I'm seeing like we were there for League or my team was there for League the other night and there was like a big crowd of like young folks, which makes me feel really old. But people clearly younger than me, people in their early 20s or whatever that show up and they're like, whoa, shit, I didn't know there was a Pokemon game. And they're like waiting for like the Pokemon game. There's like four of them all waiting for the Pokemon game to open up so they can get on that. And you're like, that's rad. It's different. And in a market like Portland where there's 30 Godzillas on route, there's like 25 Jaws. We have so much pinball and so much location pinball. We don't get to see lines for new games even when they come out. And they are popular because there's so many around town. It'll be popular. It'll get a boost. But it's just different than I think a lot of listeners in their local spots with smaller scenes. Like, they don't have 1,200 machines on location, like in Portland, right? Yeah, we're kind of seeing this, like... We're seeing this in the most saturated pinball market in the world, and it's still happening. Yeah. Like, there's... Operators are buying as many Pokemon as are available, and the demand is still crazy. Yeah. You know, and that's... It's getting people into operating. Yes. People popping up in our Discord that are, like, I'm throwing a Pokemon on Route as my first game. Yeah, and that's the best game you could choose. Dude, it's like it's the one where it actually feels worth it. And it really ties together Insider Connected. It ties together all the shit that they want you to do on every game. Yeah, this is like that's what I was saying. This is the first game that if I had one, I would put one of those Insider Connector toppers on top. Maybe D&D also, because I'm like people play this game should know it'll be better if you log in. If you draw a custom one in MS Paint, I'll put it out. I do that. Yeah, we could get a Plexiglas one cut. With a floopy. Yeah, with a little fat Pikachu floopy. Yeah, and cargo shorts. Pikachu wearing cargo shorts, I could do that. But yeah, there's a demand, and even myself, who's someone that, you know, doesn't love all the modern games, I want to play it. Roads, he wants to play it all the time. He couldn't even remember the name of the game he was trying to order because he's so, like, disconnected. Disconnected. And then he was playing it and was ready to hate it. He was so ready to hate it so bad. And then he fucking loves it, dude. And I love it, too. And the regulars like, I can't believe you like it so much. I was like, it's fun as hell. What are you talking about? You get a combo shots. And that's all at the end of the day. I think a simpletons just want to like combo ramps in their fun ramps to combo. Isn it funny how it feels like it just like we had forgotten like the core tenets of like what makes pinball like super fun and then it like when you start shaving it down and this feels quote unquote basic and you like yeah but it feels good like it feels good to combo both ramps It weird that we can all accept that like Medieval Madness is the best game of all time right And that not just me being a joke That a pretty easy to accept thing But then when people make a game that similar to that they like whoa whoa whoa this thing looks like garbage And you're like, you mean it looks like the best game of all time? So you're discounting it? Yeah, it's weird. And we all like seeing new novel stuff. I like seeing crazy shit too. Well, and we just did a whole episode on Gottlieb System ADA, and we talked about how goofy all those games are, and it tickles our little nerd fancy to play all the weird shit. I love seeing all of the stuff, but when you get a theme like Pokemon, that's not where you go weird. Yeah, that's true. That's the thing. You're like, you play this one safe, you make it fun, and they did. And I don't know. They played it safe, but it's still fucking fun. They played it safe in the right way. Yeah. Because it doesn't, I don't know, man. I just love the exposed pop in the center, how you hit that. Yeah, you can hit it either side. It's the same as how they did that on Tron, how you can hit that pop on Tron that's behind the stand-up. So fucking good. Everyone needs to be doing shit like that with pop bumpers. If you have a pop bumper and all it can do is just be in a little cluster that has a safe feed out of it, you should really think about that pop bumper. Pop bumpers should be doing more for you. And I will say that we are seeing more innovative uses of, not innovative, but at least more interesting uses of pop bumpers again in the modern era. Guys are realizing. He's using them, more exposed. Scott Denise, he was kind of leading the charge on that. Yep. You know, and it's. I love it. It's funny because a pop cluster is not an interesting thing for me at all. I understand the function. I like it. I like a good Switch frenzy hit and then throw it in the pops because it's kind of like a randomizer of like, is this going to be good? You could, like, nudge it, keep it in there and stuff. But other than that, pop clusters kind of are a waste of bomb, I always thought. Yeah. And now I'm kind of like, no, I'm waiting for people to do shit like this where I, like, stuff like this gets me really excited. That's the level of pinball nerd I am where I'm like, ooh, having the side of that pop bumper exposed up there, I'm like, that's some good stuff. But you're getting some side-to-side action. Yeah, and it was free. And so I just, dude. Oh, but yeah, the pro, we got to talk about another thing for the operators, the pro kicks ass. Pro kicks ass. Absolutely kicks ass. It got the big sculpts. They're not animated. It doesn't really hurt the game because when they are making the noise and shit, you're like, it doesn't hurt the game much. You can just tell this is one.
    37:05
    It's made to sell pros. Yeah. And they did a fucking good job with it. The premium is very cute. I love the rocking Pokeball. Yeah. Shaking back and forth. Really dumb little thing, but I just think that's cute. I don't think the premium is a bad way to go by any means, but I'm just like, it's just another thing that you're like, man, it's sure nice that they just made it so the pro kicks ass. They really just did a great job on this game, and, you know, I don't want to go on and on. This is sort of an off-the-cuff episode that we did. I wanted to talk about this game. Normally our episodes are more structured, a lot more research and outlines. Yeah, we decided to take it easy for once to do what all the other shows do and just fucking talk. Just chat it up. And, yeah, it turns out we both like Pokemon quite a bit, and we think they killed it. And good job, Stern. Keep it up. Yeah, this is just, I want to say this directly to George Gomez, who was kind enough to come on our show beforehand. You nailed this. I want you guys to hear not only the whining about an outlane rail that was easily solved by me in 10 minutes the first day I got it, or whatever all that bullshit is, or is this theme good, or is it too simple, or whatever. You guys nailed this. People are loving it on location. It's earning like crazy. I absolutely crushed this game, and even for me, who's someone that's like, I'd rather play older games, I fucking love playing this game right now. Yeah. I'm like addicted to playing this game. So you really nailed this. You should know that. And I just want to put some positive energy out into the pinball universe with new games and like the future of pinball. And like, I want to see more games like this. I know that there's no other theme in the world that's as popular as this. Yeah. So I know that we can't get. We can't just get a Pokemon every year. Unless they want to just make a new version of Pokemon every year like the real games. Yeah, like Star Wars. But, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's not just the theme, although I think the theme was absolutely, thank God they went with a theme that they thought wasn't safe. Yeah. You know, that wasn't the safe Pinsider guy pick. Yeah, if this was Goonies, it would be 20% as interesting to me. But I think that there are... But it would still be a good game. There are other themes out there that can do a similar thing. You know, Barbie, Taylor Swift. Like, we've talked about a few of them. But they also, I think, need to be a game like this. Yeah. Give us a game. Make a Goonies. Make a Back to the Future for the old guys in the hobby. Do your crazy shit there. Don't pull a Rick and Morty where they got a really, like, trendy, accessible theme, and then they gave it to Scott Denisi and made a game that, like, I'm the only one that truly wanted that theme and loves the execution. You know, like Rick and Morty should have had like if Rick and Morty was like this and Stern made it, it would have been a massive success. I want to see a game like this come out once a year. Yeah, I want a game like this. I want a simpler rule set of the people for the people to be put on location for a person walking up for the first time to have fun. Fote is arguably comparable to this. I think it's comparable, but I think when you play them both next to each other, it stands out. Sorry to. Yeah, sorry. I love John Borg. I've said it before. John Borg. I love John Borg. I mean, Iron Man is my favorite Stern game that they've ever made. But I'm like, this one is just more fun. But this one's, well, I like this one better than. There's no center ramp, dude. There's no center ramp. What's the center jump?
    40:29
    That's why it's pretty good. I just think that there's like some tight or kind of some clunk in. In foat. Yeah, you got a couple dead end shots and shit that I don't love. And then this is like fast and flowy. This is the good shit. Like, I'm a simple man. I just want to rip combos. I think if you give me a modern game, you're like, I love old games without ramps. I always am advocating for ramps to nowhere. If you're going to give me ramps that feed back to the flippers, let me rip some combos. Because it's like, let me go full Steve Ritchie. And this feels almost like a Ritchie, like, level of fan where you're just like, poof, poof, poof. The last time we got a game like this was John Wick. This game reminds me of John Wick. And in the same reason, John Wick fucking rules, dude. And people are starting to come around on John Wick. Yeah. People are starting to realize what we knew from the beginning, which is John Wick fucking rips. Yeah. And I remember me, you and Casey day one all being like, this game's actually really fun. Yeah, this game's fun as hell. Like, and then everyone's like, everyone's like, we hate this game. And I made sure that I told Elliot when I saw him at Expo, just like I'm doing now, this game fucking rips. I know you're getting heat for it. Who cares? There will always, I don't know. They're wrong. This game rips. They're wrong. As always, our podcast is correct. That's true. John Wick rules. Pokemon rules. Please keep making games like this. Allow me to combo shots. Allow me to play Fast and Furious. Allow me to just hit a shot a couple times and then I'm into an interesting mode. But then the lights are lit for what I need to do. And the colors make sense. And it's all just kind of fucking simple. And what's great, there's not too much stacking bullshit on this. Oh, dude, it's pretty nice. It's all kind of independent. It's a good, there's a lot to like about it. I love this game. I like the simplicity. I hope it doesn't get overbaked with code in the future. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. You know, maybe we'll have to do a redacted episode when this game gets too confusing. In six months, we'll be like, oh, Pokemon's bad now. But I kind of have faith seeing what they have built in right now. I really trust this team and I'm excited to see where the game goes from here code wise. But even if it just stayed here forever, I'm pretty content. Yeah, go out and play this game. It's going to be everywhere. That's the beautiful part. Alex always says this, and I think it's true, but the best thing about however you feel about Stern as a company, because it runs the gamut, but however you feel about Stern as a company, what's exciting about a new Stern game is it's for the people. That's what you always say. They're actually for—it's beautiful. That's really the best part about Stern is that when a new Stern game releases, everybody actually gets to play it. If you live in any kind of decent-sized city or you can travel to anywhere to go—if you go anywhere that's like a real location, you're going to be able to play a new Stern. So a Stern release day very much is for the people. A Stern release day is for the hobby. The boutique releases are for 500 guys' basements. The excitement is not even comparable. They're two different things to me, and that's, I just, nothing, nothing gets me going. When a boutique game releases, the Discord talks about it for about two hours, we all move on. Because at the end of the day, unless it's something one person's really excited about buying, none of us really care that much. Whereas like a Stern Day, it's like, we're talking about the game for three months, till the next one comes out. And we know we're going to get to go play it, and that's the kind of thing, it's like. It's nice, dude. It's awesome, and it's awesome when they make a game for the people, and it comes out, and there's so much to love. So we want you to go out, use the Pinball map, find a location near you. With a Pokemon, go get in line. Go get in line and play some fucking Pokemon, man. Catch some Pokemon, catch some little dudes. I assume the game's just going to get better from here, but I love it. If it stopped tomorrow, I love it. Dude, I'd play it. I'd still keep playing it, dude. It's fun as hell.
    44:23
    I don't know. They really nailed this, and I want to thank you for listening to another episode of the WetJet Pinball Podcast, even though this was a slight departure. It's a fake episode. So don't get used to it, folks. Yeah, we're not going to do this all the time. Only if we really like stuff. Only if we feel like something stands out. I think that's fair. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Go out and play some Pinball on location. Support your local operators. Play some Pokemon. Vote with your quarters. Let Stern know we want to see some more shit like this in the future. And until next time, good luck. Don't suck. My homeboy who actually told me about Tinder. What's up, Ray Ray? He told me to get this like Pokemans app right here. So I went and got it and they got these cool little characters like dinosaurs and ducks and shit, you know. Then this guy shows up and he starts calling the Pokemon by the wrong names. I don't know, just on purpose to patronize me, making fun of me. I don't know what his deal was. He called Bulbasaur. That's Onion Turtle. Geodude. Punchy Rock. Meowth. That cat with them long ass arms. Ekans. Purple shit. He called Diglett. That's floor shit right there. And Dub Trio. That's three floor shit. He knew Pikachu, but everybody knows Pikachu. Oh yeah, that's Pikachu right there. He called Weepin' Bell. Oh, that's almost a pair. Weedle. Party Wiener. Beedrill. Everybody know that's Big Dick Bee. Bees don't even have dicks. It's a stinger.
    45:41
    Mom! Mom! Mom! The toy store, Mom! Now, let's go! Toy store! Eric, calm down. The toy store, Mom! Must go! Must buy! What is it, Eric? Ma'am, I've only just heard. They're making some Pokemon dolls, Mom. You can collect them all. You can collect them all, Mom. Quick, we must get to the toy store. I'm making us some lunch right now, Eric.
    46:00
    But, ma'am, I have to get some Pokemon doll before everybody else does, cause then I'll be cute. Can't it wait till tomorrow, hon?
    46:09
    But, ma'am, I have to get the first one and people won't think I'm cute. All right, let's go. Sweet.