Welcome to the Great British Pinball Podcast and here are your hosts Scott Rundell and Neil McRae. Welcome everybody, better late than never, it is the fabulous, we know you've missed us, you know you've been wondering, you've been checking your podcasts every day saying Where is the next episode of the Great British Pinball Podcast? I'm joined by my great friend, Scott. Good morning. How are you doing? I'm doing very well, Scott. Been a busy month for both of us in different ways. But welcome to episode 10. Well, actually, kind of, maybe you could argue episode 11, But episode 10, we've made it through. We've got to double figures. We're starting to lose our teeth and starting to think about how cool we look on Instagram because we are at that 10. We don't even have an Instagram site, so that's just made up nonsense. But yeah, no, it's great to get to episode 10. A little bit of feedback. Let me just cover a little bit of feedback on 9. We know it was too long. and that's why we split it up I hope that worked, it seemed to work when we look at views it didn't put too many people off but we just had such a good conversation with the guys we just thought we were thinking about should we trim it let's just put it out there and actually part two, so we are actually going to have a two parter on this as well and part two will be, I'm going to talk about TPF in the main section and then we got some of the guys that came to TPF with us in kind of part two of this and that'll just be a separate thing on its own. I think we kind of cut the podcast in half which I think probably in hindsight was not the best solution but we didn't have a lot of time, we wanted to get it out and thanks for bearing with us and thanks everyone for the positive feedback. I don't know about you Scott but I'm quietly excited about effectively people listening to two guys in a pub. Yeah, it's good. I get a lot of messages both from the forum and privately. Yeah, no, absolutely. I actually had someone ask if we're going to do t-shirts. I said that would start for us to look like that we're serious. So I don't know about that But we might do a few stickers or something Okay We're going to Just a quick highlight We'll do a lot that's going on In Scott and my life And our pinball life We'll cover a little bit about that We'll cover a little bit about what's going on in the pinball world Some new games That'll lead us into my TPF update We're going to talk about The thing that will not be talked about second-hand market and reality versus reality. And then we'll give a few updates on some events that have been happening and coming up. And I'll give a little bit of an update on Pimbal Republic, which I know a few folks are always keen to hear. So, Scott, what's cooking in your pinball world this last, I don't know, what, a month? Five weeks? Yeah, it's probably been about five weeks, isn't it? I don't know. For my sins, I decided it was a great idea to buy a pimple machine that had probably spent the best part of its life. Actually, it was accurately 12 years left turned off in a warehouse, and then for the last year of its life was left for at least a day or so out in the rain and in a puddle to poop. I decided to buy it because it was a good price. It's effectively the equivalent of a barn find in this world. for the UK, I'd say. It was a roadshow, which is Neil's favourite pin, I hear. You bought a barn-fine roadshow. I'm not going to ask how much it was, but I hope it wasn't too much. You say it's too much, whatever number I put on. Probably, for a roadshow. Because given... I mean, if you stripped off the theme, I'd probably like roadshow, but but the freaking country music just boils my blood. I was worried, actually, when we opened it up, there was the best part of a rat's nest in the back of it. Oh, gee. And I was a little bit like, oh, my God, is there a rat's fill in it? Thankfully, there wasn't. But there was, like, I mean, if you ever wanted to look back and find stuff that was, like, original, like, you know, rappers for, like, Hula Hoops, which I think, I'm not sure what they call them in America what's the call them, hula hoops in America you don't have them I don't think they're missing out but the original packet design was in there from like 12 years ago I was like oh wow, and then we had the twirl when they used to do Cadbury's twirl with an orange font, I was like I'm looking back in time here, it's like going basically to the point of around a decade ago where rappers were like obviously marketing's changed it's funny you should say that I was thinking about I can't remember what made me think this But Oh I know what it was I was in Florida on holiday I went to Disneyland And So I've got an iPad That I use for watching movies And stuff on the plane And YouTube's got this cool new feature That I never noticed actually So you can download Stuff and watch it offline But they've got this kind of automatic download stuff and it downloads I love 80s TV I just find it fascinating both from a from a content point of view but also I'm kind of a broadcaster in my kind of day job I kind of was, I'm still kind of involved in it as a consultant but you're always trying to figure out how can I bring a unique touch to a broadcast or a video or something. And I'm not creative enough to really do it, so I make everybody else's ideas. And one of the most, and people laugh about this now, but trust me on this, go back and watch it. One of the most kind of seminal shows in this space is Miami Vice. I don't know if you watched that back in the day. Yeah, I do remember it. So I'm always watching YouTube clips From Miami Vice And it downloaded this one It automatically downloaded this one clip Which I remember Watching, I must have been I don't know 14, 13 or something I don't know, some early teens Because Miami Vice Was kind of Too violent for me So I used to watch it I had this black and white telly on my ZX Spectrum and I would secretly turn it on really quiet and tune in BBC One because everyone at school would be talking about Miami Vice and I'm the geek in the corner that wasn't allowed to watch it so anyway it downloaded this one where anyway I won't go into the story of it but I'll post a link to the video but I was just looking at it thinking my god how life was so different I was on the plane and And, you know, actually there's a quick, a very quick picture of a pinball machine in this clip. And I was just thinking, Craigie, I just feel like I wish I would have been turned on to pinball back then and enjoyed what must have been like new games coming out. okay, there aren't LCDs and LEDs, but I kind of feel like if there was a time machine that would be probably second on my list to It is weird you mention that, because I notice a lot of films now when I'm watching films that I spot a pinball machine in the background and I never would have picked up on them in the past. I probably almost filtered them out. I mean, what's that TV program, I think this was it was either on one of two shows that my wife watches and I kind of like them I'll be on my laptop kind of half tuned into them but it was either elementary or it was this Canadian thing about a guy and his dog I forget it's a crime show my wife watches Alibi TV it's like constantly on in our house I actually kind of like it because it's a bit more thinking rather than the rubbish that's typically on TV but I'm like my wife goes oh there's a pinball machine on this so I was looking up and I was like and I could see the corners and I was like what is it and then it panned it's bloody dragon fist like one of the most rare stern classics of all freaking time and this is a relative program I'm like where the hell did they get that from I actually have picked one up but it's not in the best condition I picked it up with stars For an unbelievably cheap deal But yeah I just thought Back in those Those days Life seemed so simpler It probably wasn't But I kind of just think I feel like going back to old If I could go back and Wake me up Back to the future where he's got He's going I am Darth Vader and do that to young Neil McCreary and tune into his pinball a bit more. I did get there in the later 80s, early 90s, but I think some great moments of pinball probably missed. But yeah, so Roadshow, and I guess it was a rebuild job. Yeah, that's an understatement. I mean, I was afraid to turn it on, so I didn't, because it was basically so heavily rusted the transformer was basically orange not not not it's token kind of grayish black maybe with a tint of fade or or tarnish to it i should say um everything was rusted even the leg plates the braid uh it was there was black mold all over the all over the cabinet it was in a terrible condition there was warpage on the cabinet I've got some video shots that I uploaded as part of my own channel and the base of the cabinet is basically separated from the sides you can move it with your hand it was wobbling so the cabinet was just in terrible condition the backbox was worse but it's recoverable oh I've restored it I've done it it's basically taken me the best part of 5-6 weeks but I've got it done I've basically re- powder coated pretty much anything that was rusted, replaced anything that I couldn't powder coat with brand new parts transformer I just stripped it all down and basically used the vapor rust, it was the only thing I could do to get that thing into a somewhat usable, I was really worried about the coils because anyone who went on doesn't understand what a transformer is but effectively it's a bunch of coils, a huge amount of coils in there that carry different voltages and obviously, for instance, in our country, it'll carry 240 volts in from your circuit. If they are fused, which is the term they use when coils have effectively become joined together, you're out of luck. You'll have a short and a little bang in a big way. The magic smoke is released. Magic smoke and maybe a fire. I was a little bit like when I finally got it all back together because obviously I'd stripped it all down everything was in parts, put it all back together I turned it on and I was just holding my breath thinking is this going to blow up? The only thing that didn't make it at the end was the DMD. It worked for one power on and then after that it went undone. If there was something I was going to think that was going to go it would be the DMD but I guess you've got to call it DMD anyway so I found a spare. Literally, I did a big clear-out before, about two weeks before I turned it on. I had a massive clear-out. I just thought, I'm doing a big house cleanup at the moment, and I decided to get rid of a ton of parts. I made the best part of the grand, just selling my old junk. People, you know, want man's junk as a man's treasure, as they say. So, yeah, I just got rid of a ton of DMD screens. I think I had four. thankfully I kept one spare because I needed it I don't know, it depends, if I keep Roadshow I probably will switch it out to a colour screen I'm just in two minds whether I do or I don't which we'll talk about later about the second hand market and whether or not I want to put significant investment like a colour screen into it so yeah it's come out good, I'm happy enough with it that the real studs, if anyone's ever touched a Roadshow, they'll understand it it's pretty much like the Twilight Zone clock the faces are an absolute sin. Whoever designed those, and I think it must have been Pat Lawler, didn't really think about the maintenance that goes around them in the long term. I mean, and this is the thing. People say, ah, these Williams games of the 90s, they're bulletproof bullshit. It's just nonsense. I've owned them all. And they're all a freaking nightmare. Star Trek, even Indiana Jones is challenging. It's probably the least challenging of them all. but Judge Dredd just lifting that playfield when there's something wrong with it Demoman some of the good games I like them but I could never own one again I own that year I owned Indy 500 and The Shadow and Jackpot predominantly because they're good competition games yeah and they're simple enough that the most complex bit is probably the battlefield on Shadow which has got a funny set of drop targets at the back that can be a pain in the ass but I think the biggest dialing to me on Shadow is probably the drop target that comes at the back because getting that dialing just right it can be a real finicky mechanism in that one. Yeah, actually, in Flint, which, so, yeah, I mean, if I just talk about Drop Target, I forgot Drop Target story in a minute, but, yeah, it's kind of, you know, those games are, people love them because of the, kind of, the toys and the novelty and it's like, you know, these are hard games to keep going, especially on location, so, you know. Oh, yeah. I mean, any game that's on free play, I would, you know what I mean, that accelerates, It's maintenance So to speak Every time we've had We've had Roadshow Next Gen Judge Dredd Those three games in the club And James' effort time On them to keep them going Is probably something like 20 to 1 So if I think of Indy 500 He probably spent 20 times The amount of time on Star Trek as Indy 500 and I used to kind of get a bit frustrated by it because I was like crikey man, these games just need so much effort to keep going and it's the reason... I think this is why Stern do that pro model which is kind of stripped back Oh yeah, that's exactly where I was going with this where there's a discussion on a Discord that I'm on about reliability and basically you know how reliable are Sterlins it's like pros super reliable premiums bit of tweaking and the occasional tweak that you need but you know anything it's simple you know it's mutant almost like anything that's more complicated comes with a price tag of maintenance and you know I think the pinball manufacturers I get the sense that they're trying to balance that a little bit more but sometimes you know I can't remember what it was. I think it's Elvira. That fucking house. Excuse my language. But when there's a problem with that house, Jesus, man, it's so painful to take it apart. I bet. And then put it back together. And it's actually not that complicated a mech, if you want to call it that. But the way that they've built it has clearly been price managed, let's say. not necessarily in a negative way, but a couple of quid more, and how the optos are just would have been simpler, and also the manual, that's one of the things I want to talk about next as well, the manual that shows the picture of it that comes with the game, or you can download it from Stan's website, it's just not, it's such a high-level picture, it's not helpful. I think that's the one thing that's missing right in the old Williams and Ballet era you would have full blown schematics like you could literally rebuild the game from scratch if given that option. And let me just get you an example of how to do it right. So we'll come on to this later on but this is the manual for Pulp Fiction Okay so he's showing it and it's a really you can't see the camera it's a really thick A4 It's like an old yellow page Do you remember? It's a thick book And if you're watching on YouTube You'll see this, but the detail That's a lot of detail Every single component I don't think I've ever seen a modern pin With that kind of manual, that's crazy So the only two companies that have had it But you don't get that with Cactus Canyon, so is that because It was a different company that was working With CGC to make it So actually So you don't get a printed copy With Cactus Canyon But there's a detailer manual On CGC's website So if you've got a CGC game This big beautiful manual So Pulp Fiction Stand out a little bit on this But they have got So there's a guy called Boots Who works for CGC He actually used to work for JGP And JGP used to have Glorious manuals like that Because Butch did And he is This guy If you get a chance to meet him I've met him a couple of times At different shows I'm trying to remember his surname It's gone out of my head But he is the manual genius Butch Peely's name is And he He did like the most Glorious manuals So I've got a dialed-in manual. It's exactly the same in terms of thickness and detail. So his influence is obviously carried across then. Yeah, so I think he's one of these people that loves to do that sort of shit. And I think, I don't think he, I'm going to guess, right, and this is the pure guess, pure speculation on my part, that he does that kind of a little bit in his own time because he likes to do it because the amount of effort that must go into it. and not only that Scott, and this is a thing for mod makers if you download the PDF version of that you can zoom into a point where actually you can get a proper scale so it's not just, so if you wanted to make a plastic part that manual's to scale and that for me is how it should be and I wish I definitely wish Stern would do that No chance they ever will But the thing is There's these little things if you're an operator You know and you've got a lot of games And you're trying to fix them quickly And I'll explain my issue With Elvira I had a Kind of mini tournament here whilst the Pinball Republic were kind of getting together And the kind of Core group of members But actually anyone's invited To the events but it's focused on the club guys because we used to have a Thursday night event and I was getting a stuck ball in Elvira and it turns out that in the garage there's this one way gate and when I took the thing apart the one way gate is only attached on one side, there's nothing attached on the other side so what's happened is it's moved and there's no post holding it and the ball gets stuck because of it and I'm like well, surely they just didn't send it to one post. And if you look down through this other kind of, the bit in the middle of the ball guides, there's like a mark for where a post should be. But you look on them, and then when you go look in the manual, it looks like there is a post there, but I pinged Stern Tech Support, and actually thanks to Kyle who came back pretty quickly on it. even in the design they've got access to all the kind of deep designs, it's not all but anyway I put one in and problem solved but it was really hard whereas on the CGC games you build a lot of detail because there's so much detail there right this is the thing I had with Roadshow you get to the manuals and as you say the faces are it's a very built animatronic mech, it's got little tiny solenoids that are pretty much exclusive to Funhausen Roadshow, I think. And they operate the eyelids, opening and shutting, the eyes going left and right, and the mouth is done by an armature. But the point is that when you look on the manual, it's all blown out. Because I had to look at it, and obviously over its years someone's probably an operator location switched coils around so it should have been a certain coil strength to carry the eyelids going down another one for the eyelids um opening and they'd reverse them and the one because they'd reverse them i think it caused one of the calls to blow out because it was expecting a certain strength and you know knowing the positions of them because i can't question someone who had it previously and i can't go by what's there because it's wrong the manuals is invaluable because I need to understand that no one's going to have a picture online of the breakdown, do you know what I mean? Manuals are very much invaluable for restorations. I mean, this is the thing where forums come into play where you say, hey, can anyone take a picture of this or has anyone got a picture of this or seen it? Because quite often that can help, especially with Elvira. So I posted on the group and there was definitely, some people definitely had a post and some people definitely didn't have a post. It's weird. Yeah, I mean, I thought it was a one-off. Like some bozos forgot to put the poster When they were assembling this Do you think it was maybe like a revision That was done later on maybe So Or the original run had it and then they thought Actually it's not needed and they took it out Yeah no I think So Elvira The original game that came out was the LE The LEs came out first and they had a couple Of things that they didn't get right So there was a Ball guide not missing not right on the house and then the thing that spits the ball out, the VARC that spits the ball out was misaligned. Yeah, like the gargoyle error, I see. But they were all supposed to be fixed in the premium. I've got a premium. But this, I don't know if this is different or either. Life is good, but I mean, honestly manufacturers do not underestimate the value. And actually, if you're listening to this and you truly want to learn more about how pinball stuff works, go look at the manuals on CGC's website, chicaogaming.com. They're all there. You can download them. Honest to God, there is so much information about it. You could build, from the manual, you could build a game. There's no question. That's what you want, right? Absolutely. I go back to having schematics. I mean, I bought a jukebox, as you know, back in January. Oh my God. That was the worst idea about buying that jukebox it would have been an absolute nightmare I didn't try to warn you the transformer on that thing is fused which goes back to what I mentioned with the roadshow and no one has parts so we're now to a position where we're pulling from the schematics and the transformer is going to have to be basically built out separately we'll have one for 30 volt, one for 110 do you know what I mean? We do maybe a switching power supply for a lot of the easy ones like 30 volts, 12 volts and that but there's like a step up where it needs to have 275 volts in it's going to be a pig, it's going to look like an absolute how can I put it, Frankenstein under there when we're done because no one has the transformer for that jukebox anymore it's just 1950s, it's just too old the old school transformers that you get actually and again this is a case in what I'll talk about in a minute but they weigh a ton and they've got a lot of valuable materials in them and everyone goes down a kind of switching route rather than a kind of transformer route now because it's so much cheaper and lighter yeah some people say more kind of more reliability. I'm not sure about that, but you know, it's... I mean, I would say one thing with Transformers, I mean, that one was soaked in water and left off for 12 years and it still works. Oh, that's it. Yeah, they're built like tanks, but at the end of the day, as you said, there's not a lot to go wrong because it's just a heavy amount of coils. Exactly, and this is the point, it's like the rawest of physics. You know, there's no there's no magical electronics in this it's purely physics and actually so my day job is we build these high end internet routers and power is just the biggest challenge getting power to places getting the right voltage to places and it's not just about the right it's like it's about enough because if you send too much voltage things start to get hot we're in data centers where the cooling is a premium it's the whole thermals of it is I didn't really have an understanding of how difficult that is and pinball actually largely got it easy because they got space everywhere. Yeah, it's hard. I think it's genuinely hard for stuff to overheat other than flipper coils. I think we covered that one point before where a flipper fade. So any other new things or comings or goings in your beautiful collection of games? I don't think I've seen it so tidy in my life, by the way, mate. It took a lot of effort to get it to a position where they're all clean, but it's God's law. I get everything clean, and I go to play one, and what happens? It just breaks. It was my cyberpunk as well. The glove motor has given up. So I've rebuilt the gearbox but the actual motors died It makes a clicking noise I like for God sake we have to get motor now So it not the end of the world But we go back to that point you were saying you know, old William and Bally, they ain't bulletproof. No, and, you know, if you've got time to fix it and stuff, it's great, but I just don't have the time for it. I mean, I've literally been, in this room, I've probably spent, I don't know, eight hours in the last two months. The last six weeks, partly because I've been on holiday in the US, but yeah, so let's wind back. What's going on in my world, pinball-wise? I say quite a lot. Not planned, but a few things that kind of came up. So I went to TPF, and I'll talk about that in a minute, but I bought a flash Gordon On the forum It's sitting in Martin's storage unit Somewhere He was going to I told him to deliver it I've got a couple of storage units right now One here in Woking that you've been to actually And one in One in Croydon For when the club reopens And he's gone the wrong way I said no no I don't because I want him to get it home Just check it out because the club's probably shut for another couple of months hopefully less but probably two months away from reopening but so he's got it I'm not worried about it because I've got nowhere to put it so I picked that up which was unexpected I also bought a lethal weapon a Data East lethal weapon wow Yeah so Again on the forum it was a bargain It was like two grand Or something like that Very decent Not mint condition But pretty good condition I've got to go figure out how to pick that up Because actually a guy who lives not that far Away from me that's part of the reason why I did it As well because it was close But again I've bought that kind of thing In about the UK Open Because trying to juggle a few games and then the big one you can probably if you're watching on YouTube you can see it glimmering in the background as Pulp Fiction I cannot believe how lucky I got on Pulp Fiction I'm still amazed you managed to bring it in from the States it's not an easy task well it's not easy, if you've not done it before the hard part is figuring out how to do it, I've done it enough that it doesn't worry me I've been very very very close to also buying Jaws Premium. I was this close to doing it. Not tempted to get anything like the spooky stuff like Looney Tunes or TechMitch. Let me come back to all that and the TPF and the stuff that we saw there. But so I literally walked in to TPF on the Thursday while are set up, this guy wheels in so I've already spoken to the local dealer actually Craig at Fun he's the local dealer for TPF, he brings in an enormous amount of games he's a great guy actually started out one of the guys with Godzilla Topper last minute actually Paul Boucher he managed to get a Godzilla Topper, so I'm hoping that Paul is working on putting his Godzilla in the Godzilla topic because it's got the horrible one from the game but I suppose create a city man if you've got any Pulp Fiction so the genesis of this is I played Pulp Fiction again in the US and I was like I want to get this game and I was kind of knocked so I kind of hassled CGC a little bit on Pinsight and said for God's sake guys, talk to your customers what's happening, when's it happening and you know you'll relate to this through Cactus Canyon and you'll see my Cactus Canyon is in bits I'll come back to why that is in a minute Oh yeah I haven't even noticed that in the background So it's up it's not a problem but I'll talk about it Anyway, I got the best the best I got from CD is that Ellie's will be done this year before the end of the year so in some ways that's a good thing in other ways that's a bad thing because it could come close to me losing our bet if they're made in November they're not going to make it to the UK which is why I said to you February next year January next year but I have faith in CZC that they're not going to let me down and that I'm going to win. The fact that I'm not doesn't show me any confidence, if I'm honest with you. I'd love to be proved wrong. I think there's a lot of detail. I think the Cactus Canyon story is slightly different to like Monster Bash or Attack from Mars. Although actually, Attack from Mars I basically answered the door of Christmas Eve and there was a guy with a tag for Marv's, no notice that it was being delivered That's a Christmas present I was like yay I was like I'm going to have someone to play with this week over Christmas I was both knocked and happy about it which wasn't expecting any so and he didn't have any and I was floating around and basically no one had, I could get one with the black coin door, like the location coin door Which is a standard two slot Coin door that everyone's familiar with From the US I didn't really want that You wanted that traditional 1970s I wanted a silver one There it is It's very iconic isn't it They nailed it on that So I get As I'm turning up there's a guy wheeling one in With a For Sale sign on And I just basically told him I'll take it he's like you don't know how much it is I was like doesn't matter I'll take it and then I suddenly thought maybe I should have got the price before I said that anyway he was basically selling it for a couple of hundred bucks under retail not bad considering so I literally got his PayPal account and paid him and he was like awesome he said do you want me to take it out I was like nah leave it let people play it that's nice of you and so this is the glory of TPF and actually they kind of screwed me last year because they weren't there but there's a company that I've used a few times to ship pins, not always these guys but sometimes they're always at TPF and you can buy a game and they literally at the end of the show they come round with a van, a truck and they take it away for you and they ship it to you. I mean, it's literally like a white glove service. You just say, hey, this is my game. They stick a sticker on it. And then there's a bunch of guys with trolleys that pick them up, wheel them to their depot. They then package them. Then they send them to you, right? And they can deal with international freight as well as domestic. Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. The international bit's a bit trickier for them. And they warn you, like, there's some variability in this because when you're sending something like that, it's kind of like a three-way journey. There's the local part to the airport, there's the airport to the airport, and then there's the airport to the delivery bit, and three different sections that they've got to glue together and price you for, and then you've got customs, et cetera. But these guys just nailed it. I mean, I had the game a week after. How much did this pin worth? Oh, it's two grand. I didn't go, let's say I didn't go that low. I didn't go that low, but let's say I went like, I think I went six and a half. Okay. More because if it was like a Stern game. I always wonder what cost would they see a pinball machine, because they can't see that many. Well, yeah, I mean, it's a tough one, but they can always Google it. That's the problem, right? Yeah, it's true. Yeah, it's not like, yeah. If it'd been, like, a Stern, like, if it'd been something like, I don't know, Iron Man, I would have said two grand because they're easy to find, right? Yeah. And if it breaks, you know, if something got broken, I could probably replace it. But Pulp Fiction, I was like, if this game gets bust or damaged, I'm sure. You're affecting the value, aren't you? So, and actually, I bought this game. it's going to end up in the club because I've still got my BMF order in with Phil and actually I will tell you I probably saved $300 maybe $400 importing it myself I don't think it's about the price is it? No it wasn't getting it now 12 months before everyone else I definitely would not recommend anyone doing what I've done with a brand new game unless you're happy to kiss 10 grand away if anything had happened to this I was screwed basically and there's a different I've imported a couple of new games but they were in boxes so if they're new in box it's probably a lot safer, this was not new in box so they had to wrap it for me and again these guys took care of all that, they did a great job they put it in this big crate which I probably wouldn't do again because it was it was it added a bit, a chunk of cash to the delivery price, not a huge amount but I ended up... So what would you do instead? You just like what, foam pad it and then And actually they did that anyway, so when I took the crate out it was already foam padded and I was like if they just delivered this on a pallet it would have been fine. Yeah, just like yeah, top up on a pallet job done. Yeah, and actually in any other game that's what I would have done just because there's Pulp Fiction and I didn't want to, the chance of finding another one and getting it shipped over was so low because I was trying to, you know, I spoke to about four or five different I was in the US for a while I spoke to about four or five different distributors, I mean some of them were like I love you but I don't want to piss off your local distributor by sending you a game, I was like yeah I get that but send it to my Florida address you know what I mean but look, it's not for for JDP, CGC and probably Spooky this is not a way of saving money and probably likely if something bad happens it's going to cost you a ton of cash so I would not recommend that unless you're crazy desperate like me for a game and you're willing to say 10 grand I'm going to piss up the wall if it goes it goes that's life if it doesn't unfortunately for me it went super well actually the hardest part was getting out of the freaking crate if you go on my YouTube channel yeah I did watch your video it was well built I mean I had the problem of getting rid of that wood because my wife was like she said that's not staying in the garage so I literally ended up giving like $400 worth of cabinet away which was a bit frustrating but anyway that's life but, so yeah the, I mean and that's why I've got the manual and actually so, and that's the thing the I mentioned drop targets and actually I forgot the mech, I think I have so CDC let me just see if I can find this for those of you or maybe not I'll give up, there's too much mess here. Is it the drop target mechanism in the game? Yeah so basically When I started playing the game I noticed that the drop target was Kind of firing and not staying up It was like machine gunning Fidgeting yeah I call it And On the In Pulp Fiction if you know the game On the right hand side That drop target is probably One of the most important shots in the game Because it starts modes And it starts characters And because it wasn't working right I couldn't get to any modes Anyway I was playing, I was streaming it And actually Josh Sharpe Fairplayer Josh, he joined the stream I didn't tell him or anything He just thought so I was on there And he was watching And he pings and he says I just spoke to Mark Rucci And he reckons your drop target Just needs moving back a bit If you just loosen the screws move it back tighten it, it should fix it and I had a quick go at it and it improved it but it was still doing it and then Josh says Doug Duber from CGC he said he'll phone you and take you through fixing it and I was like I'd love to do that but I'm about to this was just before I went on holiday I was like don't worry guys I'm not stressed out about it, it's probably just moved and transferred. Eventually, the day before I flew out on holiday, I was bored, so I went and did it properly. It still does it very occasionally. I think it's just such a busy section of the playfield. It's just really hard to get into. It's working great now. It does it once or twice every Blue Moon. I kind of had that issue with the Star Trek Vengeance, you know that drop target in the ship? That one is really fidgety. You have to have a certain blue spring, which is a different blue spring to all the other bloody blue springs Stern make, but credit to Stern, this ship's making a new spring for it. I'm a little annoyed that I can't find this mate, because it is... Just so you understand, by the way, there's this podcast, he's now running around his room and trying to look for it, which is why he sounds like he's a 50 miles away. The other thing that I do when things like this happen, because I'm so lazy or lack of time, actually, I just ordered the entire drop target unit from PPS, and it arrived. Oh, okay, so you bought a new Mac. Okay. I bought the entire Mac, not because I need it, but... Well, you wanted to evaluate it versus yours to see what the difference is. Well yeah But I wanted to I just thought if there's anything wrong with it I could just swap it out and it's fixed Yeah But I've lost it so I don't know What the hell is it I'll find it eventually don't worry about it So yeah but I've done this before So my Iron Maiden on my Premium I had this real issue with a ramp, the one in the club. I just thought I placed it and it was fine. And it's not because I don't want to fix it. It's just because I don't have the time to fix it. And actually, this was a time before we had Robin at the club. I said it was Robin before we had James at the club. And, you know, he just gets stuff fixed without any issues. And You know If he was If this was at the club he'd have fixed it in seconds But anyway the game is amazing It's such a great game It is brutally difficult Do you mean it's going to be I don't know Did they do pinball awards For best pin of the year Was that last year's contenders That was last year So this game started shipping this year So it'll be in the line up this year but I just it's you know, I don't know if it's because Josh Shaw was involved in it but it's a game really I mean it's a it's probably the best theme use ever and you know Tarantino was involved in it Yeah I've seen the whole back story it's crazy that he was so like no I want this to look like 1970 I don't like the I remember he even had arguments over the back glass, he was like, I don't like a movie asset it's got to be drawn, do you want my team to draw it I've seen that it's pretty cool that he was so into the building process What a difference it makes you compare this to Led Zeppelin I love Led Zeppelin, a lot of people hate it, but they were like, yeah here's our assets, build a pinball machine we don't really care so what you get, you get a Photoshop game right? yeah, asset drops and you look at the difference like in Bond yeah, Bond as well I had to say it see the thing is people on the art for Bond people have a go at that but for me it's perfect yeah, maybe I want it to look like a Bond themed pin and it does even the font if you want it to look like a collage from your nursery days Neil it's all up to you mate that's exactly what I wanted and and and knowing that it's the fair play to start on the game is outstanding it's one of the best games do you know what though when I played it around your house I'll give you that it plays well it's nice and I to be honest I probably prefer the 60th edition over the normal one if I'm honest yeah the 60th is is I mean the music's better I honestly think the music's better yeah I think I think Jerry did the music For the 60th but not for the normal Game and I think it definitely shows Not that the normal music's bad but No no I just think it's better It could be better But yeah look I mean Pulp Fiction's hilarious It swears like you wouldn't believe It's got a mode you can turn the swearing off but It kind of just bleeps it out And it doesn't take a rocket science To figure out what's being said The game is a tough game There's a bit of depth to it And actually yesterday I had my biggest game on it I managed to roll it finally I've got mine set up I always set my games up hard Actually on this game you probably don't need to do that It's such a challenging game And on my game It's kind of weird Because I've played this On like 3 or 4 different copies Maybe the most In recent memory And all the other copies you can easily Backhand the mode shot On my game you can't Backhand the mode shot So did you do a flipper alignment now? I don't know what a flipper alignment Pitch The fact this is not a prototype I don't know but I mean you can I don't have done it But it's not like On TNA I can hit the lock shot For multiball off the backhand Like clockworks I used to like that In Black Knight where you could backhand Into the shield You cradled the ball You could backhand it time and time again Well I mean Black Knight like Venom The way you play that game You always backhand The minute you hit it For an hand bang bang you're dead Yeah I was going to say If you try and shoot that shield shot from the left flipper You'll probably drain Yeah you're dead And Venom's very Similar to that Did I hear by the way quickly That they're doing a new run of Black Knight Yes pros Very limited in fact two of the dealers I was going to ping Phil And ask him if he gets one And they're as cheap as they are in the US I would take one for the club Only doing pros I heard something like $7,000 or something like that. $7,000, yeah, which is a bargain by today's standards. Absolutely. Unless you're buying a medieval madness. But, yeah, it's, you know, and actually I like the game. So, but if, I'm going to try and catch up with Phil on Monday and see if he's getting any. But I know Coin Taker And Tilt Amusements Have sold out of their allocation Which is kind of weird Interesting isn't it Because Black Knight was just It didn't sell well at all did it But and this is the thing With pinball right Unfortunately themes Become more important than gameplay That's a good Talking subject I do find that even like there's people out there in other podcasts, let's just say, that say licensed themes are the way to go. And I'm like, I don't know. I look at my collection. I don't really have that many licensed themes. I'm like, I mean, bear in mind, my collection is predominantly from the 90s when they were making a lot of unlicensed titles. I think I look at stuff like, probably this is good. Actually, you can move on to things like Barrio, actually. so we can get a bari-gaze barbecue to take away into that but I feel like it's not that unlicensed themes are necessarily bad I just don't think that they've made a good unlicensed theme recently I think the contender for me was Galactic Tank Force, I was really excited for it, I probably was I was 90% certain I was going to buy it then I saw the issues around how the tank was, you shoot it and the ball was airballing over the flippers into the trough. I was like, I don't know, this looks like a bad design to me, less a bad theme. I think for me, I still would be interested in a very unique theme. I look at what maybe will happen with this Dutch pinball company. What are they called now? There's a new wing. Yeah. See what they come up with. Let's see what happens. Alice in Wonderland, I still find it intriguing. I'm not going to lie. I know you were like Oh I'd avoid a lot to play So it's just got such a bad history With John Pappadoux And so many people lost cash It's like Pimble Brothers as well They've still got the stench of What happened with Highway all over them They definitely have that stigma associated still And also from what I understand The actual Pimble Brothers have left the company They're not even part of it anymore No they're not This is what I mean. All the people I speak to, they are literally evangelists of pinball. And even if you've bought a game and you're like a third or fourth owner, they'll still talk to you. They'll still replace a part of you. I mean, that's good, but you know, for me, I don't know, it's a hard one, but there's too many people that were stitched up, you know, lost thousands of pounds and, you know, quite a few of them can't afford that, you know. And anyway, Yeah so anyway Pulp Fiction It's a great game Actually I think Phil Phil's got a demo one He's putting into Retroids Arcade up I think it's in I want to say Near Birmingham Just south of Birmingham Somewhere I would call it North Yes It's in Worchester Is that right? Wooster W-O-R-C-E-S I don't even know how to fucking pronounce that I say Worcester Worcester Yeah it's Yeah They've actually got a great line up of games I keep meaning to get up there sometime But yeah he's going to put I think Pulp Fiction's going in there So it gives you a chance to play on location This one will be in the Pimble Republic which we'll talk about in a minute And move on to another game So, TPF, let me just cover the games quickly in TPF. Well, I want you to focus on, let's start with, like, Barrio. Barrio, so look, Barrio has had so much abuse thrown at it. And I kind of get it, right? Because who the hell is Barrio, right? I know him because it was my favourite game, still is. And it's kind of in the shot there from Super Strikers Killer. I love that game. Yeah. I really love it. And, you know, there's some games of his that I like, some games not so much. But, like, any designer, except Pat Luller, he's never made a great game except that one. But, so... He's going to give you sleep for that. I have to say, I played Barrio... Actually, I played it in Chicago last year. I played the Whitewoods. I was under NDA. I wasn't allowed to say anything. Okay. and I knew it was coming and I knew it was going to be called Barbecue and when I heard it you didn't say something at that point I said well actually I'll be honest with you I kind of thought it might have just been a code name oh okay so I kind of said Barbecue interesting theme choice I left it right because you're in he's such a nice guy he's kind enough to spend time with us take us around the factory where he goes through a whole lot of signing NDAs, stuff he doesn't have to do. He does not have to do any of that, right? No, of course he doesn't, no. And, you know, you don't want to go in his house and piss in it, right? Sure, that makes sense, yeah. But I did kind of think, I mean, there was a few of us looking at each other thinking, really? But then I kind of thought, no, it's got to be a code name. There's, you know, what could barbecue be? I was trying to think of the things that, you know, like... It could relate to. Yeah. Anyway, and then they announced it. I'm like, oh my god. But, I'm going to tell you, I think it shoots really nicely, right? Everyone says that. I tell you what, that's a good contender for a re-theme. Do you know what? If that game goes cheap enough, I find it sometime in the future. I might re-theme it. So it's got a lot of great potential. I think it's got huge potential as a touring game. There was one issue with it that Dave was you know I gave him some feedback on it which was after a while the flippers made it really hard to get this shot where the spinners are this ramp shot you could still hit it but you had to be spot on and I said mate you could do with fixing that and he's like yeah we're going to take a look at it but I thought it was a great game it's got some great mechs in it it's a real I mean if you're a fan of Barry O's it's got a lot of takes on his designs in different games and as a commercial endeavour it's a tough one I think but they're only doing a limited number of them Oh yeah that's true I'm super rare at this point I think it's I kind of hope And actually, I still believe this is GTF. I've got a GTF shot really nicely as well. Yeah, there was some... The issue with the drop targets was they weren't going down. So when you hit them... Oh, that's that thing where they spread because there's too much tension. Yeah, so it just springs up. And again, this annoys me. My Pulp Fiction's done it. I think that why Stern don put drop targets in honestly I think they just use standard targets Basically It got drops in it and it Even my Deadpool You can adjust the springs And you'll fix it, it's like almost instant fit But I look at TNA I never had a brick shot on my TNA Ever because they dialed it in Right, so They are finicky, they really are I also played Scooby-Doo and TCM, Texas Chainsaw Massacre I'd say I really like Looney Tunes I'd say I really like Looney Tunes except and there's a video of this on my YouTube channel I'm playing it and I'm really enjoying it and the ball drains and the game loses its state and I'm it crashed it didn't crash it just got totally confused and I pinged one of the spooky guys and he just oh yeah, turn it off and on I'm like hmm, that's why I don't buy spooky games so we had this touch wood right, my Rick and Morty code wise is flawless see Rick and Morty for me is a Scott Dinesky game, not a spooky game yeah I can agree with that they might have built it But he designed it The Spooky Games I mean It's such a beautiful looking Pinball machine Looney Tunes It looks awesome I like the artwork There is the comedy factor in it as well Yeah And I would buy it But I'm not going to spend forever Fucking about with it To make sure it works Alice Cooper Honest to god man If Alice Cooper had come into the Pinball club I would have shot him For the amount of effort That we had to put in to keep that game running I wanted competition on it With 84 million That I'm convinced was a malfunction I even said it I said guys I don't know what I did to hit that But I'm not sure It was me playing I think something triggered Like a switch hit fire It was weird right and I'm like, I mean I was happy I've got no idea how to play this game but I got 80 million which is a big score on that game I just don't want to, and this is the thing like with Astana or GDP or Pulp or CUC and actually the thing that's amazing on Cactus Canyon is the menu system Oh yeah, diagnostics Diagnostics, you can actually they've actually got a timer on when you hit the flipper and when the EOS hits, it's like they time it and there's like a little graph so you can hear one flipper to another you can dial it in like what? because I had an issue with one of the flippers on my cactus was a bit lower and it was taking longer you could feel it when you were flipping, it wasn't lower what was wrong with it? it was an easy fix, it was something Stuck in it There's some, I think it was a bit of a cable tie Which had got wedged in it I pulled that in, it was fixed, but Just being able to see that on the screen I was trying to get Honestly, I mean, sadly Pulp Fiction and the Labyrinth didn't have a screen But it's got all the other diagnostics That you can see, because it's a CGC Architected game But I was impressed with that, but With spooky games, they just don't have diagnostics them, even Scott Dinesi ones he's put some stuff in but if you're trying to find a stuck on switch in a spooky game it's a freaking nightmare you've literally got to go whereas on a Stern or even a Williams game you can kind of see it I still find it really weird actually when you look at a Stern and they have that kind of era that is still like a DMD menu and they're slowly moving away from that, but I'm kind of, to some extent I'm kind of with them on it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Oh no, it's fine. It's just, you can definitely tell it's the only interface. It is weird when you see it. It still looks like a DMD on a massive LCD screen. And then you've got JGP where you literally get pictures of the playfield. The entire playfield, yeah. It actually highlights you when you're running a spinner and it will go into colour to say this is the switch. It's crazy detail It's very good I kind of wish they'd do less of that And finish their games Yeah well I was listening to the Buffalo Pinball podcast He was talking about His number one game, Pirates And I was just like I couldn't disagree with you Any further if I tried Nick and Kevin They're great guys I know them well I haven't seen them for a while Actually since Covid But actually Nick was over here He came to one of our tournaments Great guys But on Pirates I agree with you I don't know where their love is They did the original Unlaunching stream I think that's what it is Those rose-tinted goggles for me They've got that nostalgia Kevin's a big JGP fan He doesn't play his stand games Whereas Nick's a bit more balanced both great players as well, I used to see them at Pinbog and yeah, I mean I went on and said I posted on I popped the tail end of it and I posted that I couldn't disagree more this is a terrible game, not finished built quality, terrible and boring ruleset from Kiefer but not to mention I know people don't really talk about it but there's no actors in the assets because they couldn't get signed off from Disney so it's kind of like all you've got Is it a picture of somebody opening a door? Or a picture of a boat? It's not that they couldn't get sign-off, it's that they didn't want to pay for it. That's the difference. And also, in pinball, why do you want to get a menu of 50 characters that you can choose? They're a crazy player selection. It's like, what? They should have kept it to the big captains and that's it. Do you know what I mean? Like Barbossa, The main players The ten main players, that's all you needed, right? I would say it's too much But Like Turtles, should have just had four or six Something like that So, loved Looney Tunes Shame about the build quality Liked Barrios Played more Elton John, that's just such a good game JGP have nailed it, finally Everyone keeps saying it, yeah, I think that's probably their best game, right? I think if you So the guys, I'll let them speak for themselves But I think We went out for lunch On the Sunday before we all started to head home And I think the Takeaway game from the show was Definitely Elton John They were kind of surprised Also Venom They were pretty positive about Venom I played it around yours, I think Venom gets a Real hard rap I think it's a great game I think Is it you know I saw some Post like oh Venom's the most Stripped down game I've ever seen Like okay what about the gameplay And this goes back to the theme thing Right theme and what You see When you're ordering a game You know oh well I don't see anything On this so Why am I paying all this money and the theme You know I love it or I hate it And then so you end up like with a game Like Barry O's, could be a great player But no one will touch it Because it doesn't have a theme And when I look at it I don't know what's there So for me My decision is ball and flippers Like I'm playing this game Do I like playing it? Do I want to come back? If I was on location would I be sticking my dollar bills Into this game right? And if that's the case Then it's a game for me I mean it's where of these days that I play it by a game that I haven't played. You're lucky though, I mean you can travel to these places where you can try them. I think for the majority of people in this country, at least in the UK, it's more like I'm going to take a punt on this. That's what the majority of the reality is. I mean that's what Paul was and Colin was saying in the last one, is they were going to there'd be a TPF a year after the big release and they hadn't played any of the games that had come out yet. They hadn't played Pulp Fiction, they hadn't played Venom, At Jaws as well by the way You know this is going to cause Chaos for some people The premium is the game to buy I know it's more money but honestly It's such a much better game Is that because of the upper playfield? The upper playfield makes all the difference To this game Anyone who says otherwise is talking utter nonsense I'm sorry but And again I predict this is something that comes up When we get the guys on The difference is just insane It just changes Like Bloodzilla, PM Pro Whatever, the games aren't that different Right, you've got this building That's cool But the gameplay is almost identical Jaws, nah It's almost a totally different game And the game is so much better And the shark doesn't eat the ball But no one cares So you know, that was great. The other thing, it was there from Star and they had the Foo Fighters topper, which I've now got. They didn't have them at the show, annoyingly. They just had pro-taps. How much was that topper? It was a lot of money. I think, yeah, look, Neil, you're definitely not the type of person that would shy away from buying an expensive toy, but holy crap, man, I'm fairly certain that's an expensive topper. It's too much money. No, no, you're right. It is. It's stupid money, but it's basically, and also a lot of it's a reuse of the Black Knight topper, the head moving around. Oh, so it's the animatronics from the head. Okay. Yeah, and actually they've added a lot more to it. Is it two grand's worth? Hell no. No, if they could, you know, as you say, back in the day there was a Black Knight topper for 500. Well, that's it. My Black Knight, actually. I was going to ask you this. I completely forgot. did you fill in the question F that came from Stern? Did you get asked to fill it in? I don't think I got asked for it but I get so many It took me an hour and a half It was so long Yeah there's so many questions so many questions but it's intriguing to see what well I'll tell you the stuff they asked which is really interesting. It's all about subscription models what would you want to pay if you basically were paying a monthly fee and what would you want to get as part of that monthly fee? They were talking about having elements where you could actually do your own content creation and help with assisting with the game code design, stuff like that. There was stuff and questions around what features would you want to see as part of the ongoing lifecycle of the game. It's a bit almost like they're doing games for PC, well, video games, let's call it, where it's like live service, I think they use the phrase, and they pay a monthly fee and they keep adding to it I honestly think Stern is trying to do that given by what I had to answer in that questionnaire, they are looking at a method to say if you pay a subscription, you will get these features unlocked So they're dead let me tell you, they're dead unless it's things that you don't already get so if they make charges for stuff that you've already already been getting they're dead and disney right now is seeing you look at disney subscriptions disney plus plus yeah you look actually you look at all those subscription services they are all nose diving um people aren't seeing the value if if stern um and this is a business that i've been in mobile phone business where it's all about subscriptions when minute customers do not perceive value, you're screwed I mean it's literally like you're drinking champagne and you're buying Rolexes because your business is doing so well and then the day that you realise there's no value you're literally on eBay trying to sell everything for 10 pence because your wallet is that brutal and if Stern go down this path which I actually don't believe they'll ever do. That's my take. I think... It was a long survey. I suppose they'll get the feedback that they need from... I mean, it's good that they're asking rather than just doing, first off. Yeah. I think they would be absolutely freaking crazy to do it because for two reasons. One, the negativity on pinball pricing right now is on another level from when it's ever been. I mean everyone the only things people talk about constantly is the price I mean all through TPS It was mentioned in the questionnaire they ask about your they ask a lot of stuff actually they ask about what you earn in living for your family if you buy a new game what makes you make those decisions to buy that game and how many new box games have you got, stuff like that it's very much driven around your purchasing basically I mean there's another company that's tried to go down this path, BMW they'd fully spec a car, you didn't pay for it but if you wanted like heat seats you paid three quid a month and there's a mode well they've done it I know it's still crazy I would blame Tesla for that but there is one thing I'd say about that though, in fleets I think that's a valuable thing because if you get a company car, quite often you don't get a choice on the spec and all of a sudden wait a minute, I can subscribe to this and I've suddenly got this thing that I couldn't have got because I get given a car so there's a mode of operation for that that I think works unfortunately BMW I think that's more down to the I suppose as you say one car owners to move into a subscription model where they don't even own the car anymore Well, I think, yeah, I mean, it's like transport as a service is what, you know, I call it. But this subscription model thing, I think there's a, because the stock market loves it. Oh, yeah, it's recurring revenue, isn't it? There's like a panic to get into that model. But look, let me tell you, right, BMW owners typically buy a car. if you kind of dig into it, and I'm an ashamed BMW owner, we buy a new car every four or five years. So the recurring revenue is there. And most of the time, most people will finance it. So they're making good money on interest, way more than they're going to make on a proposal subscription service. It's low risk for them because if you don't pay the credit, they just take the car off you, and they can sell the car and recover the credit. So, you know, I kind of question the thinking of some of these organizations. But, look, I think experimentation, you've got to experiment. You've got to try new shit, for sure. But, Stern, if you're planning to put people so that they have to subscribe to stuff that they're already used to getting, forget it. Don't get me wrong. There will be a novelty period where people like it. But over time, they'll think, well, wait a minute, I can watch Doctor Who on BBC for nothing. You know, I can watch all this stuff on ITV for nothing. And if you look at what's been happening in TV, there is definitely a resurgence of people who are watching subscription-based stuff versus people who've gone back to kind of linear stuff. because actually the one good thing that Netflix and those guys have done is they've made these lazy people in the big TV companies get off their ass and create proper TV shows again because there was a bit of, oh, let's do Love Island Series 400, right? Yeah, it's just the same iteration, isn't it? It's just absolute cheap nonsense TV, right? So in some ways that's good But let's finish up On TPF There's one big section on TPF I'll just introduce it here and we'll talk more about it With the guys But the best part about TPF The homebrew section By a mile, right? Yeah, everyone talks about that Crazy good homebrew as well So there's so many great games Motorhead, amazing game I love playing it I would buy that game 8 ball beyond we've seen before But I had a chance to properly play it Last time you just couldn't get near it It is An amazing game I managed to play it before the show opened So you can actually hear it The music and the audio We were talking about audio before It is fantastic I would buy that game Right away I would buy that game Friday the 13th I would buy that Saw It was interesting But you could tell It was a bit of a whirlwind remake As soon as I I didn't initially notice it But as soon as I did all I could see was whirlwind But the concepts and some of the things They had on it were really cool There was a bunch of other You know Sorry homebrew games I mean honestly Scott The thing that I was amazed by was if you weren't a pinball person, like you just were bozo off the street you'd never know that these weren't made by manufacturers, they were so good, you know it wasn't like a white what was your view on that MechWarrior game where they had a guy playing with a control pad and another one playing single player so they could play co-op so look, I'm a MechWarrior fan from winter I loved MechWarrior as a kid by the way I absolutely bloody loved that I had a good play, I didn't play it this year because I played it a lot last year I was impressed by it, I thought the guys did a great job, I'll be honest with you though the software in that game was a bit finicky it wasn't clean, it was definitely better this year I think but again as a home game, I can't see it doing well on location but as a home game I can see that definitely working But Yeah I'm always a bit Nervous with homebrew games In fact I had a bit of a Disagree with a guy on Pinside Where you know So there's certain IPs that Really value actually ABBA which we'll talk about Shortly I'm a massive ABBA fan I love disco My wife's been to See the ABBA show about 100 times Yet You know And when I hear someone's doing it on a pinball machine It freaks me out because I'm like Oh they're going to fuck this up right Are they going to give it The kind of effort that's required Are they going to pulp fiction it Or are they going to Try to leave a terrible Or are they going to Stranger things it right You know don't get me wrong Stranger things is a great game I was going to say I like Stranger things Oh it's a great game but in terms of use of IP It's terrible right I'll give you that Yeah actually it's the Star Wars right So Are they going to do Pulp Fiction where it's like Just such a great use of the theme Are they going to do Star Wars where it's shit Right and again the Star Wars game Is not a bad game But the use of the theme as a Star Wars fan Is abysmally shocking in my view And You know as a fan I get frustrated with shit like that It would be quite easy for me to do Star Wars game, one word, magnets. Yeah. The force. You know what I mean? It's just like, oh my god, it's so obvious. Yeah, people don't really do it. Mandalorian's the best Star Wars game. What do they use? They use a couple of magnets in it. You know, simple things like that. The, the, I don't know, the, um, so, with ABBA, you know, I just looked at it and thought, my god. I was disappointed that Sorry, Pimble Brothers had gone From a music pin That hadn't sold well To another music pin I was just like I was hoping to god it really wasn't Because I looked at that helicopter And I was like, I saw what it could be And I thought, mash Yeah, I was great When I saw the helicopter, being an ABBA fan I was pretty convinced that They were doing ABBA at that stage I'm not that much into ABBA so I didn't really understand why the helicopter was so symbolic, I know it's on the album art but I didn't know it was like something else unless you're an ABBA fan you'd never have got it so I've got, we've got the original don't get me wrong, the mech's impressive I mean that's a new mech and it looks good I thought they'd done alright on it but I looked at the game and I was like I was like well there's a big helicopter in the middle of the game and what else Not a lot I don't know 100% I compare it to Elton John I think they're really up against it It's the worst time to release a music pin When you've got Elton John taking the limelight Not only that This is the thing In some ways they're lucky Because these are two well known European Elton John's a bit more global But ABBA's not super global They're not massive in the US Much bigger in Europe than I'd say in America Huge They're doing 800 They're only doing 800 And I'm like How do they put all the effort in designing a game like that 800 I'm like what So Look I've watched videos of it It looks underwhelming to me And I kind of I look at the state Of Pinball Brothers with Lots of changes and I kind of think it's a brave person that buys that game I have to say it's and there's a couple of fans on Pinball Info that are super excited about it of course when your title comes out Yeah, if it's your Holy Grail theme Let me take Mandalorian I was super excited about that but it's not a great game No, I can tell in the resale market because it struggles if one were the fact it was Mandalorian I would have sold my LE if it was like if that was like I don't know you know little dwarf pinball it would have gone it just isn't a good enough game I like it it's fun but it's again for an IP of that level they've blown it basically so in terms of what I expect as a great game. It just doesn't do well enough. I'm conscious of time. Let's kind of drive through. So we'll do more on TPF in the second part of this. The second hand market, reality versus reality. I just kind of I don't know really where to go on this, but Well, for me, like, coming from perspective for somebody joining pinball during the height of covid um i definitely feel prices are coming down a lot i know you feel like the bottom is not there yet for me i'm just surprised to see so many nice looking titles as in good condition may not be like popular ones but in in our country at least we're getting titles through like champion pub at 4k which it's a rare game, it's WPC95 I'm glad I didn't see it because I was busy in the garden otherwise I probably would have parked it with some money I saw it too late it's probably more accurate but the other one I think I saw recently was a Junkyard and again it was a good condition game the pictures were really nice and no one's touching it and I'm like back in Covid that would have been snapped up because it's a really good example of that game But I've noticed now If the game isn't a good title It doesn't really matter what the price is People aren't buying Yeah I mean Junkyard and Champion Pub Probably two of the worst WPC games Yeah they're the For me they're three grand games They've been three grand forever Yeah Covid they were going for stupid money But I think anyone buying I mean four grand you know worst case you lose 500 quid maybe on it maybe a bit more but those games just they're just not worth it basically and you know there's unfortunately there's a bunch of people who bought games at the peak either through either through the forum or through some dealers who think I've got a lot they're gonna dealers that think oh yeah I'm gonna sell this game, I bought it for four grand, I'm going to sell it for eight. They think they're making money, and here's what they're doing. They're killing the market. And they need to tread carefully. Oh yeah, I've made money now, but the fact is, is everyone gets so turned off by how expensive it is, I'm not going to buy anything, right? And I know that was one of the themes from the guys at TPF. Pretty much all of them were out of buying you box because you buy a game you know a pro for 8 grand and you're lucky if you get 6 back for it premium and but you know there's still this you know Luke folks if you buy a new game I'm just going to make these numbers up so you buy a Deadpool for 7500 new from Phil right I think he was doing them for 7500 right maybe The chance of you getting 7500 for that game No matter what you do to it Even if you got Deadpool himself to piss on it You're not going to get 7500 when you're going to sell it And you know If you're buying a new game In fact if you're buying any game Folks for the love of god Plan to lose money on it And if you don't want to lose that money Don't buy the fucking game Don't buy new box yeah I mean, I learned that the hard way. I lost, like, what was it, three grand on Elvira? And I see these people putting up their, like, premiums, and I'm, like, putting up for, like, a 500 loss. I'll be honest with you. I'm amazed anybody wants to pay 500 pounds less versus a new box. Exactly, exactly. And they don't. That's what happens. Unless, I mean, Elvira's maybe a title that's all about timing, but for me, Elvira now, there's so many of them. you know if you just wait you'll get one at the price you want yeah that's what I'm doing now it's like I'm not doing what I used to do which was impulse buy yeah you impulse buy in pinball you're gonna you're gonna thing yourself if you're after pinball machines right make a list and also make sure you've played those games because I see people like and you're a great example Cactus Canyon get it, you buy it and you get it you think this game sucks and then you sell it right and that is an expensive thing to do make sure you really have played a game and when I say played a game it not like two games you got to have played it 10 or 15 times and again if you haven played a game a lot right, there's a chance, a very strong chance, even though it's your dream theme, right? Oh my god, I've been waiting for Foo Fighters forever! There's a very good chance, if you haven't played it, that you might not like it as a game. You like the music, you like the theme, this game's shit, man. It's too hard. Pulp Fiction I think is going to be one that might have that because it's a tough game. But plan for that eventuality. Again, if you can't if you're in a situation where I can't take a spank of three grand don't fucking buy the game. Just don't. It's the joyous thing about pinball. There are so many amazing games out there. You've got a choice. Be patient. think before you spend and you've got these people that rush out and try and grab onto shit ah there's a Ghostbusters it's up for 8 grand, it's a fucking 6 grand game and it's not even a great game yeah it's got the theme and it's got this man has no business I think that would be the thing right, they get it and they're like yeah I've chased it, I've gone after my holy grail and then they play it and it's straight down the middle straight down the middle, straight down the middle and then they'll get to a position where they'll be like okay I've actually lost the love for that game because it's frustrating. I mean, Ghostbusters is the first new in-box that I bought and after originally playing it and then after I played it and this is the thing, I thought I knew the game because I played it a handful of times in Chief Coffee, big shout out to Sam who runs Chief Coffee in London I thought I played that game enough to know it and I hadn't, basically. And then they promised this code update Which they delivered eventually But at the end of the day The ball and flipper game was the same game Okay the DMD Did different stuff and different modes And they fixed a load of shit But it was Still the same ball and flippers But straight down the middle And basically a thousand ball saves Because the kick outs were so bad That they all went down the middle It just wasn't a great game So Do you think that this will apply pressure to anybody in the new inbox. So we're talking like the manufacturers. When they're seeing a downward spiral in the second-hand market, are we going to see a price adjustment in the new sales as well? It must be affecting sales. It's hard to see that happening. I mean, for me, the signal for that was Labyrinth. Right. So Labyrinth comes out and an easy way that they could have sold tons of them was to price it at like 9 grand and they priced it at 10 and a half right and the minute I saw that 10 and a half price my take was actually their cost base is in a position where they have to sell it at that price and I don't see enough happening in the cost base to warrant manufacturers reducing prices and I tell you what I don't want is them taking stuff out taking any more out of games yeah it's getting to a point if the cost price keeps going up it's going to get to a position where people just as you say will put off because the price of new boxes is too high well then I think you know Luke I'm going to be that spells the end of pinball no absolutely absolutely this is why Luke Does a price change have to come along at some point in time? Absolutely. It's hard to see next year, you know, in January, where we get the emails saying Stern have put the prices up. I think that'll just be red rag to a bull, basically. Actually, I've got a plan on, you know, I think part in the UK, where we have the channel that we get to, particularly on Stern Games, is not price friendly for us. and I think there's a correction that needs to happen now and you know again you see I can't remember what the price for Pulp Fiction was but I think it was nine and a half the original price for an AC I can't remember let's have a look I mean I know for a fact that the margins people make in the country for reselling pinball machines is at a position where it's easier just to do a couple of days work on call outs than it is to sell one pinball machine margins are thin margins are thin and you can see Phil's been selling games at literally a cost price from sale I think he's taking probably I guess volume over profit the thing is he's running around like a headless chicken for no money it's like Phil are you minting exactly it goes back to as you say the R conditions are different because we've got effectively a middle man. But, I don't know. I don't feel confident that Nguyen Box keeps going up. I don't think he's got a future in this country. I mean, I think end of this year we'll be telling because you know, you hear Zach on his pinball podcast. He says it's been the best year yet. in terms of sales. And the question is, okay, that was last year. Is that sustainable through this year, where the prices have gone up even more? I mean, Pulp Fiction is the thing, right? You can get a Pulp Fiction for the same price as a Stern Pro. Yeah. There's no doubt. That's a different build. A different build game. And even, you know, the early price, but 8295 for a completely different level of quality I'm not going to go to stern by saying that but it's the reality right and then you've got Labyrinth which again is pretty decent I think they've still got probably a little set of improvements to make for the same price as a premium you know and in my mind you know they all you know I'll be honest with you 10 grand is a real psychological marker especially when you're selling second hand no absolutely I felt I sound like a broken record but for me that was if I sold Elvira for trying to sell it say for a grand less than I bought it or two grand less than I bought it it was still 11k at two grand less So people in the ads are going, that's a lot of money for a second-hand game. Yeah. I mean, you've got Halloween for eight and a half. Oh, that's a terrible game. Don't buy it. Sorry, Phil. Looney Tunes, I mean, this is the thing, right? So Looney Tunes, you know, the standard is nine and a half. I mean, as much as you might disagree with it, I think, to be honest with you, the best value proposition recently was the Ripley edition from Pinball Brothers. Yeah, but, I mean, you've got to bear in mind, right, they had zero cost of putting that game together. In what way? In the way that they got the whole game for nothing. Because of Highway. Highway did all the work on it. Oh, I see what you mean. Research and development, then. Yeah, okay. But yeah, they're still paying for licensing. They've still got the bill of materials for actual parts and everything like that. I still think it's a hard thing to compare. I mean, look at Abba now. They're selling it for more than 10 grand. Yeah, wow. Yeah, I'll give you that. So I kind of feel that that's a one-off. But look, the Bloodsucker Edition, so the LE of Looney Tunes is 10, 10 and a half grand. You know, when I look at the pricing now, I mean, the only one that's over the top for sure is J.J.P. I mean, they've totally lost the plot on pricing, if you ask me. the people that started the whole price hike in the first place. But, again, why... I mean, back then, Pirates, I know we both agree it's not a great game, but Metacore is holy crap. That's impressive. The shit, super impressive. They add a lot in it. They do pack their games. I just think where they fail is on their code and on their music and on their assets in terms of videos. Godfather, 13 grand. No one's paying that for Godfather. You'd have to be insane to buy a Godfather. TNA is £10,000. Mine's cost £6,000. Yeah. I don't really understand why a TNA rerun costs more as well. When the cost is that you say, they're sunk at that point. I mean, the price of timber just for the cabinet is like almost two and a half times what it was. So there's definitely some inflationary pressure. I think the question is how do they go out and challenge their cost base the supply into their cost base so that the materials aren't as expensive, how do they make their staff more efficient because they're obviously pretty sure over the last two years of inflation they've all had a pay rise right people say this is greed and cash grabs Yeah, there's definitely, they've done cash grabs. Standard Bond. That thing that you bought up there. I'm pointing at your top there. It's a cash grab. No one needs to buy any of that, though, right? I think the majority of people don't know. You're right. The Rolex buyers, as I call them. Oh, you're right. Although Rolex, you've got more chance of getting your money back. True. So, Luke, folks, if you can't afford it, it's almost like gambling, right? If you can't afford to lose the money, don't make the bet. Yeah. And also, if you put your game up, if I see someone who's put a game up that's ridiculously overpriced, I'm calling it out. And I'm doing that... You would if you weren't banned. Well, I do it whenever I can. I do it whenever I can. 10 grand medieval madness. I pity the fool that bought that. Genuinely. Do you know what, Lola? I know you like Kirk and everything, and I think it's Steve Padgett, right? Yeah. Whose games it was. I'm sorry, but whatever sucker bought that bloody medieval madness, oh my God, that playing field was absolutely wrecked. Right. Like, that was roached wrecked. Like, you're going to have to spend the best part of three grand getting that looking right, and you are absolutely going to have to combine that for ten and you can get a new inbox from Chicago maybe this year, maybe next year as a remake of everything brand new. Yeah, I mean, this is the thing, right? In some ways, for a while, the remakes, Medieval Madness helped with mad pricing, because there was a time when 10 grand was the standard price for Medieval. I was like, what? They did help with that, but now they've a victim of their own success in that they've built such great games, no one wants to sell their Medieval Madness remake. And actually, Chris, I mean, Chris Broome put one up for sale. Again, I think a ridiculous price. Sorry, Chris, but that game cost six. Well, the original LEs cost six grand, six and a half grand when they came out. He's better off doing what supposedly Kirk did, which is stick it on eBay and let some guys. And that's the thing, right? I'll be honest with you. If you are trying to get cash out of your game, probably eBay is the best place to do it believe it or not. Yeah, I agree. Because there's a lot more stupid people there. There's a lot more suckers. Yeah. Uneducated. They're like, oh I quite fancy a pinball machine. Buy it now. Boom. I'm off. Well yeah, there'll be like of that demographic that probably goes, I remember seeing that game when I used to play in the arcades and I really liked it. I mean you never see it come up. 10 grand, that seems like a bargain. I looked it up on Pinside and it's going for like 14 or something. Some crazy guy selling, I can't remember what it was, but he was selling like seven grand for a Williams WPC. And I'm like, it wasn't a good one. And I was like, mate, are you joking? And, you know, if I can call it out, I'm calling it out. No, I did the thing. I was good. I didn't say everything on the forum post. If I can go on, you can say it. I won't say it. Because, yeah, I can. It's my platform. It's my platform. It's mental if you buy this. but I mean look someone's bought it so I don't know supposedly I mean look I'm not going to put any doubt in people's mind when someone says oh it's gone I've seen people do that before and then marketer says it's up three months later because they go oh the deal fell through or the guy's selling it for less money there's a in my mind a pretty expensive theatre magic up for sale right now I think it was a couple of them Yeah Four grand game guys Sorry Even though I've put tons of money In my theater magic And my wife bought me it So I can't sell it Otherwise I'd be shot If I was to sell it, I'd be selling it for four grand Because that's what it's worth And everyone's like, but Neil you spent all this money I was like, yeah but it's like I could buy a Mini I could put a turbocharger on it And super tires I could paint it gold stripes It's still a fucking mini And it's got a price There's a thing There's this aura around it It's one of those That means it's at this price point And it doesn't matter if you polished it With your favourite Pampers nappy I think that's right Every game has a pretty fine ceiling You probably undersell it If you put it at 4 I think you probably get 5, 6 Maybe 6 I'd say It's a fucking game A player's condition I'll give you that It's a fucking game It doesn't matter what condition it is No I disagree there Condition absolutely makes a difference It's a 500 quid difference Otherwise like I would be happy to buy a medieval madness At 10k if the playfield Didn't look like it just came out of a can You're right That's a fair challenge If you've got a fucked playfield That takes a big dollar out If you've got a good playfield Because the other stuff's Cosmetic, you can fix that, right? A lot of people don't care about cabinet I do, but not everybody A big playfield is a heavy lift That's why I get you to do mine I get Keith To do my sterns, he's doing my meteor Right now But that's A couple of grand that's why I always think of it as a foreground game sure you know I know that irritates the fuck out of people because I paid six for mine and it's worth eight no it's four the thing is if you're patient and this is the key thing right look there's games that I've paid more than they're worth everyone's done it right I bought Stargazer And I probably paid a grand more Than it was really worth Because it's a rare game And this one was actually in pretty good shape And it was an easy transaction But If you're And it's kind of a grail game for me The Stern Classics, I'm a bit of a mug for them I'll pay probably more than anything else Right, daily is charged But if you're just Buying a game It's not I want to get Foo Fighters for a while right you're not going to get the same money you paid for a Foo Fighters it's just not realistic you're in la la land if you think that's the case you're going to buy you're at least going to lose 500 quid and if you don't think that honestly just stop buying stuff because you're going to be disappointed and if you look at the forum right now well it's the same thing with Stranger Things right I want to have a strange things, but people want 7 grand for a pro, I'm like with all due respect you can buy a new inbox for that kind of money, I'm just like I don't want to be spending 7 grand on a used pro, I just don't want to do it but this is the thing, if you wait like, there was like a couple of Mandalorians that were on the forum for like 10 grand that finally went at 8 I bought another one that wasn't on the forum I think it was for 7, 7 right, and that was an If you wait, right, these prices, they will come to you. The prices will come to you. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I was offered eight and a half two months ago. I was like, yeah, you should have fucking taken it then. You should have taken it then, yeah, absolutely. And look, no one wants people to lose money, right? But, you know, there's this reality distortion. And this is the thing, right? oh okay I won't buy your um you know your Deadpool for 8 grand I'm just going to import the one from Europe that's 6,000 euros I'm going to import the one from the US that's 6 grand dollars I'm actually seeing do you know that's an interesting thing you pointed out I'm seeing a lot of price drops in Europe Europe is in the toilet right now I mean it is I was seeing I saw it like like things like you know a creature for €4,000 and I was like God, I haven't seen a creature for that kind of money for a while. It costs you €500 to import it. Yeah. I must have bought 20 games from Europe recently and they're all cheaper. There's some people still living in Laos and in Europe as well. But it's you know genuinely right. I don't want to lose any money if you're selling a game that's over the price I'm going to call it out because all you're doing is passing that pain on to someone else I'm going to tell that person wait, buy it at the right price don't get me wrong if you buy it from a dealer and they're charging more money you're not getting ripped off people think you've been ripped off by this guy or this guy no, these guys as businesses are there to make money right and if you buy a you know a Ghostbusters for 10 grand because that's what ex dealers are selling it for also dealers don't forget they're working with that VAT they're working with yeah so for Americans that's basically tax staff you know and they want more overheads than somebody selling it from their garage put it that way but also hold them to account if they said that they've done this 42 check and the first thing you notice on the glass is a big scratch down it I bought a game second hand actually my wife bought it for me and there was this 42 point check honestly not a single one of them had been done and I went ballistic at them because they'd ripped my wife off there's no question about it there are some shady dealers out there fortunately the market's big enough now that they don't really get away with it anymore But I think that five or six years ago It was a bit easier for them to rip people off Yeah when there was demand Sometimes they've got a game that you want And they're going to warranty it So make sure you hold them to account On it Basically I'm going to move on from that I'm just going to Share a few things very quickly Because we're way over time As per usual As always So Pinball Republic quick update where um things are moving ahead slowly but they are moving um our our lawyers and the new venue lawyers are doing the thing on contracts i'm hoping that that gets signed like in the next two weeks then we've probably got a month of fitting out so probably end of may begin the june i hate giving out dates now because it feels like it just gets further and further but Things are moving I am moving it as quickly as we can But The rest of the club went The rest of the people who run the club went to see the venue They were all super impressed by it So Yeah life is looking good A couple of other things There's obviously We're getting close to show season So there's Favesy Pinball show That's coming up It's in Cambridge shows. It's like a really kind of cool chilled out weekend. I've been meaning to go out for years and never made it. I actually made it there last year. It's on the 30th of June. If you want to play Pulp Fiction, my game will be there. I'm taking it with me to Swasey. And then the other one I want to shout out for is UK Pin Fest. Yes. And in particular You know These shows happen because people Bring games to them And You know so I don't know if it's the date change but Pymfest A week earlier it's August 16th 17th and 18th Which is the week before it normally is So it's normally on the bank holiday weekend There's less At the moment Phil's a bit nervous because He hasn't had the kind of Pym donation so what's interesting is the hotel's sold out so people are clearly the hotel's sold out like literally the day the hotel bookings were announced so if you are going and you're normally a pindenator please or you don't want to do it let Phil know why he's pretty good at looking after folks so I'm bringing my cyberpunk and I don't know what else I'm going to bring because there's one other game I'm going to bring, I'll figure out what the hell that is closer to the day, but I'm committed to I'm bringing Pulp Fiction and I'm bringing James Bond 60th they're both, I think, going to be in this tournament I think so yeah, please you know, show up to those shows because they're great Yeah, and donate, I think we're somewhere around for the main lobby area we're sitting around 67 titles and we're normally at 100 at this point I can bring more games if need be but I'll be honest with you the thing I hate is I hate driving a fucking van yeah I do too I try to keep myself for transit if I have to go into looting territory I'm only going to be doing that when I have to move I'm not doing that So if I get a few games in the transit That'll be it But yeah I mean that's it It just takes a couple of the key people From the UK community Just to kind of say I'll bring two It'll quickly add up Yeah absolutely If you bring a game I think you get free entry And your transport costs are covered It's not like you don't get anything out of it And then finally There was an event playing pinball for CAS which was held at Medway Mike and Tony down there raised two grand for cancer research so well done and CAS was Mike's partner who sadly passed away with cancer cancer such as one in two people so it was good that they ran that event and I think they did a ladies event as well that went pretty well so well done, get down to Medway they're in Kent and again this other thing, if you've got a venue near you, go and visit them and give them some cash because it's not easy running these venues I can tell you from horrible experience, so look we're going to end kind of part one here I think Scott and part two will be will be the guys some of the guys that came to TPF I mean obviously it was about, I don't know what five or six of us, it was a good laugh there was some all I'm going to say is Revolver Dave Bishop and scary moments if that doesn't get you into watching the next Episode I do not know what will But it was It was a great gig We ate loads of Barbecue drank loads of beer and Shot the shit out of a few things so And Including pinball but Yeah all Lots to hear about from that it was A great week and actually You know The guys there was a debate about going to Chicago I'm definitely going to TPF next year I definitely recommend everyone to go to TPF it's such a good gig and we had a right laugh so just I think on that note first of all sorry we took a bit longer to get together just a lot going on both my life I was on holiday for two weeks with my grandkids in Florida Scott's got a lot going on in his space and we'll be We've got part two out as soon as we can We'll get this up in part two We'll follow in the next week or so Hopefully And then we'll be back Sometime in May So look enjoy your pinball folks Be sensible about it Don't buy it if you can't afford it And Because This thing's a bit Of a monster the more you feed it The hungrier it gets it's like an air balloon You can just keep blowing air and air and it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger, right? And, you know, it's called inflation for a reason, but we're kind of driving madflation is what I would call it. And it's, you know, people think, ah, it's 10,000, 10 grand because everyone's been selling pins for 10 grand. I don't believe that at all. I believe that they're doing, the manufacturers are selling because they've had some real inflation challenges. I'm in manufacturing, I've seen it in what I build and what they're doing seems to make sense to some extent but I think we're all feeling it in that a 15 grand a pinball machine market is probably not a market that's got a lot of life in it for the long term so let's be sensible and there's lots of great pinball machines out there, I just bought a Flash Gordon for just over two grand and it's one of the best games of all time so there's bargains out there if you go look at it it's simple to operate, it's simple to keep going it's the simplest game ever and it will keep you happy for years, so look for those bargains, classic Bally's classic Stern's, classic Williams they're there to be found and they're glorious games anything to add Scott? No not really I'd say like you know from my perspective I think as they will wait for part two where we can actually get into the shenanigans that you guys got to go in Texas it'll be an interesting treat Yes so there's definitely some amusement to be had it was it was a fun weekend and we'll see you guys on the next show and speak to you then bye folks bye bye