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Pinball Industry News: September 2019 Re-cap

Pinball News & Pinball Magazine Pincast·podcast_episode·1h 45m·analyzed·Oct 1, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Suncoast folds; Elvira revealed with incomplete code; Ghostbusters update delivers big

Summary

This September 2019 industry recap covers three major stories: Suncoast Pinball's Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing and shutdown of pinball operations after Cosmic Carnival underperformed; Stern Pinball's official reveal and early streaming of Elvira's House of Horrors (a long-delayed Dennis Nordman/Greg Ferris design), which received mixed reception due to incomplete code; and Stern's highly praised version 1.16 code update for Ghostbusters, which dramatically improved gameplay and player satisfaction after years of waiting.

Key Claims

  • Suncoast Pinball filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy due to unpaid back rent (~$14,500 initially, escalating to $30,000+ with legal fees and future rent guarantees)

    high confidence · Martin Edmunds reviewed court filings showing back rent suits and Chapter 11 filing; pinball division confirmed shutdown

  • Cosmic Carnival's production was reduced from 250 units to 100 units approximately two months prior to the bankruptcy, signaling poor sales

    high confidence · Hosts confirmed the reduction as a sales indicator before the Chapter 11 filing

  • Elvira's House of Horrors was announced at Texas Pinball Festival 2016 (approximately 2.5 years before September 2019)

    high confidence · Jonathan Houston and Martin Edmunds confirmed the 2016 announcement date

  • Dennis Nordman completed the Elvira playfield design and then left Stern to work for Deep Root Pinball, forcing Stern to complete the game without further designer input

    high confidence · Hosts explain the situation where Stern stopped paying Nordman after design handoff, prompting his departure to Deep Root

  • The Elvira's House of Horrors live stream on Deadflip's Twitch channel revealed incomplete code with limited modes, lack of call-outs, and repetitive mode sequencing

    high confidence · Hosts directly reference the stream and criticize the presentation as lackluster with insufficient humor and effects

  • Elvira's House of Horrors Signature Edition is priced between $15,000-$20,000 with only 50 units produced, while the Limited Edition has 500 units

    high confidence · Hosts confirm pricing and production numbers for all three tiers (Premium unlimited, LE 500, Signature 50)

  • Blurry leaked images of Elvira's House of Horrors appeared before official reveal, sourced from someone guessing the URL on Stern's website

    high confidence · Jonathan Houston explains the leak origin and Stern's takedown requests; notes Pinball News chose not to publish them

  • Ghostbusters pinball version 1.16 code update added wizard modes, music, voice calls, balanced scoring, and a 'God mode' trainer that jumps to pre-wizard modes

Notable Quotes

  • “if you have a good seller on your hands, why would you reduce the numbers?”

    Martin Edmunds @ ~10:45 — Explains the production reduction from 250 to 100 units as a red flag for Cosmic Carnival's poor sales performance

  • “these guys are willing to pay me to design more games for them, I have no obligations to Stern so off he went”

    Jonathan Houston (paraphrasing Dennis Nordman's decision) @ ~33:30 — Captures the tension between Stern's unpaid designer relationship and Deep Root's offer, forcing Stern to finish Elvira without Nordman

  • “it looks like they might still be working on it for quite some time based on the fact that... we've seen a very interesting curve of development”

    Martin Edmunds @ ~40:15 — Skepticism about the game's completion status and the pattern of hype-leak-reveal-disappointment

  • “they got a new game even though they already have it for three years in their house”

    Martin Edmunds (player feedback on Ghostbusters update) @ ~72:30 — Demonstrates the transformative impact of the code update on existing Ghostbusters owners

  • “they came and they kicked ass”

    Martin Edmunds @ ~78:00 — Strong endorsement of Stern's Ghostbusters update effort despite the long wait

  • “to me, I didn't want to run them because I didn't think – well, I thought they were effectively stolen property because Stern didn't want them out there”

    Jonathan Houston @ ~45:45 — Explains Pinball News editorial decision not to publish leaked Elvira images based on IP ethics

  • “It's a sanitary lesson because you would have thought they were a reasonably well-funded startup having a successful arcade company behind them should be able to see them through the first couple of games.”

    Martin Edmunds @ ~25:00 — Reflects on how Suncoast's failure despite arcade company backing illustrates the difficulty of entering pinball manufacturing

Entities

Suncoast PinballcompanySuncoast ArcadecompanyJohn WeaverpersonCosmic CarnivalgameDirty DonnypersonStern PinballcompanyElvira's House of Horrorsgame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Designer contract/payment structure at Stern (post-design handoff payment termination) may have contributed to Nordman's departure and Elvira's completion delays

    medium · Hosts explain Stern's decision to cease payment after design handoff unusual and problematic; incentivized Nordman to take better offer from Deep Root; resulted in designer unavailability during critical completion phase

  • ?

    business_signal: Suncoast Pinball shutdown and bankruptcy filing; pinball division permanently closed while arcade parent company continues

    high · Chapter 11 filing confirmed with back rent lawsuits exceeding $30k; layoffs at pinball operation; Suncoast Arcade announcing new products 4 days after Chapter 11 filing; pinball social media presence eliminated while arcade presence maintained

  • ?

    community_signal: Ghostbusters version 1.16 code update received overwhelmingly positive community feedback after multi-year wait; players describe feeling like 'new game'

    high · Hosts cite universal positive player feedback; described as completely changing gameplay; added music, modes, voice, balanced scoring; rumor of potential Vault Edition follow-up

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Cosmic Carnival demo at Texas Pinball Festival presented as incomplete whitewood with only single-ball play and no scoring, creating negative first impression

    high · Hosts describe rapid disappearance of player interest at demo; ramp design criticized as unplayful (figure-eight shots); later revisions ineffective

  • ?

    leak_detection: Blurry images of Elvira's House of Horrors playfield and cabinet leaked before official reveal; sourced from URL guessing on Stern's website pre-distributor announcement

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.315

0:00
Suncoast Pinball files for Chapter 11. Elvira's House of Horrors revealed. Ghostbusters gets its long-awaited update.
0:17
Hi, my name is Jonathan Houston and welcome to the Pinball Magazine and Pinball News monthly pinball industry news update. And with me is... I'm Martin Edmunds. and together we will be looking back at the wonderful month of September 2019. Right. And there's no exaggeration to say it was an action-packed month. Yeah. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah, absolutely. A very exciting month, although not everything can be considered a highlight, I guess. But, okay, it's pinballs. You have ups and downs, apparently. Absolutely. That's the nature of the business. Not everyone's going to be a runaway success.
1:03
I guess we should probably dive straight into our first story then for September. I guess it's kind of starting on some sad news, really, with the fortunes of a start-up company based in Florida. Right, the Suncoast. Indeed.
1:24
Yeah, being a sort of a division, I would say, of the Suncoast Arcade. Yeah, Suncoast Arcade, who make video games and cabinets. Yes, and so they decided to get into the pinball business as well.
1:43
Their first game was Cosmic Carnival, which had very cool art by Dirty Donny. Indeed. And, interestingly, when the game was first, I guess, revealed, well, it wasn't revealed at Texas. It was already shown at the Houston Arcade Expo prior to that as a whitewood.

high confidence · Hosts detail the comprehensive update and cite universal positive player feedback

Dennis Nordman
person
Greg Ferrisperson
Deep Root Pinballcompany
Whizbang Studioscompany
Ghostbustersgame
Dwight Sullivanperson
Lyman Sheatsperson
Cassandra Petersonperson
Jonathan Houstonperson
Martin Edmundsperson
Pinball Expoevent
Deadflipcompany/media
Jack Dangerperson
Batman 66game
Sacred Stiffgame
Jurassic Parkgame
Pinball Newsmedia

high · Jonathan Houston explains URL-guessing hack origin; Stern sent takedown requests; Pinball News declined publication; comparison to Jurassic Park pre-reveal leaks

  • $

    market_signal: Cosmic Carnival production reduced from 250 to 100 units ~2 months before bankruptcy, indicating poor sales and cash flow problems

    high · Hosts confirm reduction as early warning sign of commercial failure; 4 unfulfilled preorders noted at bankruptcy

  • $

    market_signal: Stern's pattern of leak suppression followed by hype generation across multiple game reveals (Elvira, Jurassic Park); hosts speculate intentional leak orchestration for buzz

    medium · Hosts note Stern sends takedown requests yet still benefits from leak buzz; propose this tactic effective for 2-3 games before community becomes wise to pattern

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Dennis Nordman departed Stern for Deep Root Pinball mid-Elvira's House of Horrors development after Stern stopped paying him post-design-handoff

    high · Hosts explain Stern's decision to cease payment after playfield design handoff; Nordman took Deep Root offer; left Stern unable to contact designer for input during completion phase

  • ?

    product_strategy: Elvira's House of Horrors announced at Texas 2016 (~2.5 years before September 2019 reveal), with playfield designed years prior; significant software/completion delays post-announcement

    high · Hosts confirm 2016 announcement; design complete by announcement; playfield demo existed in Greg Ferris' office; extended delay attributed to other titles' prioritization

  • ?

    product_concern: Elvira's House of Horrors live stream revealed incomplete code with limited modes, lack of humor/call-outs, and repetitive mode sequencing for gameplay demonstration

    high · Hosts describe stream as 'lackluster' with low energy presentation; intentional mode repetition indicates limited coded content; criticism of missing humor expected from horror-themed Elvira game

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community sentiment on Elvira's House of Horrors shifted negative post-live stream reveal despite positive initial response to official photos

    high · Hosts describe arc: teaser positive → leaked images negative → official photos positive → live stream gameplay negative; questions about code completion and mode availability

  • ?

    technology_signal: Stern's software development resource constraints limiting code updates on existing titles and delaying completion of new games

    medium · Hosts explain Ghostbusters update delayed due to prioritization of new game code; Lyman Sheats assigned to multiple projects (Batman, Elvira) stretching timeline; pressure on software team with new releases plus legacy support

    • 2:08
    But the game was artwork, I guess, was at the Texas Pinball Festival, but in sort of a demo mode, which actually didn't go very well with the public, if I may say, because usually when there's a new game, there's a line of people playing it.
    2:29
    And here, that line quickly vanished, so to speak, because you couldn't actually play a game. You just pressed the start button and you got a single ball. You could flip it around, but there was no scoring whatsoever. and that was all that was in that demonstration mode that they had at the time.
    2:51
    But I guess that gave people already the feel like there's not much to this game. Yeah, that's true. I don't think it's a very good way of presenting a new game because you get none of the feedback from making the shots, You don't get any sound effects or light effects or anything in the way of inserts or flashes or anything, making it into a fun shot to make. And to be honest, the ramps weren't exactly fun in the first place. They were just, you know, the left ramp fed back to the right. No, the left, left, right ramp fed back to the right. Right. You could just do a figure of eight shots all day long. and yeah, and you couldn't get, it was very difficult to get back all the way up to the top once you went through the top rollover lanes and there was basically no getting back up there.
    3:49
    Yes, although that was addressed a little bit later on with a I think it was a lane that fed back to the shooter lane, so you could get the ball back to the shooter and then launch it but it's not really much of a solution. right and um uh well then then the ramps changed so because they they they listened to feedback and they uh figured that they needed to change uh the ramps i think the outcome was still the same but they looked more interesting and they were less blocking uh the play field um and then i think it It was like two months ago that we reported that the estimated production of 250 units was adjusted and would now be only 100 units, which to me already was an indication that sales weren't that great, because if you have a good seller on your hands, why would you reduce the numbers? This could be more like an attempt to get your hands on something more exclusive. maybe, but I'm afraid we're not even going to see 100 units, because, like you said, the company filed for Chapter 11. Now, you did your homework on that, so can you talk to... Yeah, absolutely. That was what you found out. Okay, well, looking at the court filings,
    5:19
    Suncoast originally started with one unit, when it was the arcade business, and expanded into the unit next door. They were in, I think they were in 204, no, they were in 202 and expanded to 204, which is next door. And that was around the time they started their pinball production, so I guess that was really for the pinball side of things. And then just recently there were some papers filed suing Suncoast Arcade, which is, I guess, I describe them as something like the sister company or it's probably like the parent company or the holding company for Suncoast Arcade and Pinball but they were basically being sued for back rent on both of those units the sum was $7,176 for each of those two which is another ridiculous amount it's not a huge amount, no No, it's basically 14,500 total, which for a company that's solvent and has good turnover, that's not a huge amount and could easily be arranged, you'd think. Well, it's like a brand of three pinball machines.
    6:38
    Yeah, well, we don't know how easy they were to sell, do we? but yeah the wrinkle there was that um the owner of suncoast uh john weaver had personally guaranteed the um the rent and it was therefore he was being sued um as the guarantor for that but not only for that back rent but also for future rent uh on the basis that the company if the company went out of business then that would be lost earnings to the to the landlord so he was being sued for more than 15 the exact figure is not declared, it's just it was more than $15,000 for each of the units so that pushes it up to above $30,000 and that was also legal fees as well taking into account of that so that was several weeks ago I guess that all became public and And at that point, the company did file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which gives them protection against the people they owe money to and gives them the opportunity to try and restructure the business such that they can either try and make it into a profitable business or sell off some parts or one alternative is just close the whole thing down and just liquidate what they have and pay their creditors pennies on the dollar. effectively. Okay. But it looks like the pinball operation is done. They're closing that down. There were people who were laid off at that point. No more pinball manufacturing was taking place.
    8:20
    It's thought that they might be able to make the arcade business profitable and carry on that basis. Maybe, you know, maybe take it back down to one unit and focus all their efforts on doing the arcade stuff which was basically their core business to start with and the pinball and forget about the pinball as a venture which didn't really work out and that would mean that some people who had bought games or were paid for games wouldn't actually get them we understand that the numbers on that are low, around about 4 people but um and there are parts still for for various games that play for right and playfield components cabinets so it's possible that those games could be built still and then they might get them but um it's not looking too positive for that now that so there might be some people who who lose money there um at least some yeah um but it's interesting i mean you spotted this that um that the arcade side actually announced a new product um just around the time that the pinball division was being shut down yeah that was like four days ago i think september 26th um which was after they went into chapter 11 so the the suncoast arcade side is still apparently um uh developing and and uh releasing new products so Suncoast Arcade still exists as a website Suncoast Pinball doesn't Suncoast Arcade has a Facebook presence Suncoast Arcade sorry, Facebook Arcade has a Facebook presence and the Pinball side doesn't have a Facebook account anymore that's been closed by the looks of it seems to have vanished so it looks like that's definitely what they're planning to do to keep the Arcade side going and close and forget completely about the whole Pinball venture. Which is a shame, because they had been talking about games two and three, and the plans they had for those, no details. I think Dirty Donnie had a deal with them for at least three games, or three more games even, something like that.
    10:42
    So, he might be looking for other work, I would say. I'm not sure whether he got paid up front for all three titles or whether that was to be done by the time that he would submit the artwork. And maybe he already did, I don't know.
    11:03
    Yeah, it's a pity. It could have been interesting. Yeah, it's a sanitary lesson because you would have thought they were a reasonably well-funded startup having a successful arcade company behind them. should be able to see them through the first couple of games.
    11:24
    But they went about things in a very different way. Apart from Donnie, they didn't really bring in any well-known pinball people or pinball expertise that we're aware of into their manufacturing and design of the game. So when it was released, it was kind of somewhat lackluster in terms of the reception it received, and I think that obviously followed through in sales.
    11:57
    But I honestly thought they'd last a bit longer, but I guess there were other issues as well in the company that meant they didn't have the free cash flow that they needed in order to continue manufacturing and developing their future titles. Yeah, okay, well, I guess that's all there is to say about this.
    12:18
    It's a pity, but, oh well. It is. I feel sorry for the people who are working on the business down there. Yeah, or the four people that still have a game on order.
    12:29
    Yeah, yeah, okay. So, on to happier news then. Yeah, sort of, I guess. I guess we're going to Stern Pinball, basically teasing, announcing, revealing, and then streaming Elvira's House of Horrors.
    12:51
    Which I really need to be careful how to pronounce it, because you might hear something different. Yes, the third game in the Elvira series after Elvira and Party Monsters and then Scared Stiff. And it picks up a lot of themes from those two games, as well as Elvira's TV appearances as well. Right. So, we have a very colourful playfield design by Dennis Nordman, who designed the previous two Elvira games, with artwork by Greg Ferris. Yeah.
    13:28
    And they were working together as Whizbang Studios, as they did on some earlier games, including the Wonelli being Big Juicy Melons game being their first studio title. Right, which was also picked up by Stern Pimble. And of course, with Greg Ferris being art director at Stern Pimble, it's not that strange that Stern would be picking up titles from Whizbang. Although this is a game with quite a bit of a history. I think this is a game that has been in the making for at least six years or so?
    14:09
    Hmm. There's been several, well, ongoing attempts to actually make it happen, and it was announced, what was it, just over, was it two years ago or three years ago? Texas. Texas 2016.
    14:25
    Yes. Okay. So, yeah, it was three years ago. No, yeah, no. I think it was two and a half years ago. Yeah. Yeah, about two and a half years ago it was announced. But even at that point, I think all the work had been done on it pretty much, as far as the design goes. The way I understood it, when the game was announced, rumor has it that there was already a flipping white boot in Greg's office, and that Dennis' work on that game was done.
    14:56
    And since the story as I understood it, Dennis handed in the playfield design and Stern needed to figure out the mechanics and so on but they weren't paying him anymore to work on the game which is why when he got an offer from Deep Root it was an easy choice I guess for him to say like hey these guys are willing to pay me to design more games for them, I have no obligations to Stern so off he went and you can't blame him for that. But it does make it a bit more complicated because at the same time, the game, although the play-through design was finished in, I guess, Dennis' eyes, Sternfield had to continue that project without being able to contact Dennis for input if they needed him. And Greg probably didn't have the back-and-forth banter with Dennis that he had in terms of artwork discussions and what have you, game rules and such.
    16:06
    Yeah, it's a very strange situation, really. Yeah. So the game was further developed or finished, so to speak, at Stern Pinball.
    16:14
    And I don't want to make a harsh comment, but it looks like they might still be working on it for quite some time based on the fact that, well, I think we've seen a very interesting curve of development, I would almost say, in how people responded. I mean, we have a situation where, first of all, there was a video teaser where the game was announced to be coming soon, which was actually a part of the video that you actually see on the screen in the game.
    16:52
    And that was nice. So there was a death, that had a family crypt, so the dead would be returning. There was a house.
    17:05
    I think it was a very good teaser. So I think two, three days later after the teaser, blurry images of cabinet art or, well, the game's position in a three-quarter way, I think it's called, leaked, and a blurry picture of the play field.
    17:30
    I don't get how these pictures get so blurry, because why would anybody store them in such a low res on his computer and then leak them unless the plan is to leak them in the first place? But based on those blurry pictures, I'd say the online response was rather negative, I would say. Then we get the official reveal of photos of the game.
    17:59
    Everybody's praising how great the game is, how good it looks. Yes, you could look at it as a cross between medieval madness and scared stiff elements. making it a sort of sketch on steroids I would say and then we get the review stream where people actually see the game being played for two hours and it turns out that the code is far from being completed and that turned down a lot of people yeah I think it was a lackluster as a term when talking about Suncoast and I think it applies to the response to the live stream that was on the Deadflip Twitch channel.
    18:50
    I don't know if everybody was trying to present it in the best possible light but it did seem quite low energy as a presentation and yeah there was a lot that wasn't shown and I don't think it benefited from showing the same mode start because the way it played you played through each of the movies but always started with the same movie yes that was intentionally done for this uh stream uh was explained by uh absolutely yeah jack danger so they uh normally you would be able to uh to select different modes based on how you play the game uh but for the stream uh the modes were all in the same order as goes for the... Yeah, which made it quite repetitive, but also you have to wonder whether that's because there aren't that many modes actually coded. So they couldn't show more than, you know, three or four of them, because that's all that's actually in the code so far. Right. And so... No, we were commenting that there's a lack of call-outs and effects within the game. Humour as well, for a start. Well, I didn't want to say it, but thanks for mentioning that, because I think the game was basically lacking most of the fun and double-entoners that people are expecting from this type of game.
    20:16
    Yeah, I'm sure there'll be a huge number more call-outs put into the game later on, once they've had a chance to really get to work on it. But it was an early version of the code, there's no question about it. And it's, you know, as we've seen before with other games, since you show games too early, you're reliable not to get the reaction that you may be hoping for. Yeah, so we might be looking at another Batman 66 scenario, where, although this game has more code than when Batman 66 was revealed, because when that was revealed, you couldn't even play the game, all it had was an attract mode. that's true yeah it does strike me as a rather strange way of marketing the game because you know going back to what we were talking about before the leak or plant however you want to view it of the low resolution pictures they went out there and then Stern appeared to be going around trying to get people to take them down people were getting emails from Stern saying take these pictures off the website please and you and I didn't publish them because we knew that they weren't legitimately obtained shall we say the main reason for me not to publish them there was nothing to see on them there was something you could see artwork and it wasn't presenting the game in the best light that's for sure and there were more questions than there were answers about how the game would work, so I don't think it helped Stern. But the same kind of thing happened with Jurassic Park. There were leaked pictures before the official reveal. In that case, I think some of them came from the distributor presentation. But these ones for Elvira came out before the distributors were shown the game. So this came from somebody, I believe it was somebody hacking around on the website trying to guess the URL of the page that Stern were going to put up and found some pictures there, and that's where they came from. But, I mean, to me, I didn't want to run them because I didn't think – well, I thought they were effectively stolen property because Stern didn't want them out there.
    22:47
    And given the choice, Stern would not want them out there. I did ask people to take them down. Well, based on the response... Although we don't always follow Stern's wishes. If it's somebody else's property and they have expressed that they don't wish it to be used, I don't think you're on very steady ground in publishing it. Right. At this point, I'm not sure whether Stern wouldn't want them to be published because it's starting to look more and more like with every game we get this sort of leaked images up front everybody starts talking about it, you get the hype and probably it's exactly what Stern wants actually to happen but for the record they need to tell people oh you have to take them down but they still get the buzz that they are probably looking for they can only do that so many times before it gets old and everybody gets wise to what they're up to so they can probably do that for two or three games at most. We'll see whether it happens for the next game as well. Okay, so now about the game.
    23:56
    This is not a Cornerstone title, more as a studio type of title, which has, similar to the Batman 66 model, a premium model, a limited edition, and a signature edition present, of which the signature edition is the most expensive one, reportedly being sold for in between 15,000 and 20,000 US dollars.
    24:27
    So, that's an expensive signature, I think, because... It is. It's pretty much all you get with that, because the play field is exactly the same on all three models. Exactly. The only difference, really, is in the trim and the fact that with the signature one, you get a signed card on the playfield, an apron from Elvira, and a little patch of red material that's supposedly from her sofa or chaise lounge or whatever it is you would describe it as.
    25:04
    I guess it's a sofa. I can't imagine that she's only got one of them. I'm not sure about that. This is going to be the end of her appearing on it. Well, I think the sofa is actually already donated to some sort of Hollywood museum or a museum somewhere near Hollywood or L.A. But I think I read somewhere that the sofa was, I'm not sure, pardon my English, I'm not a native English speaker, but it was completely re…
    25:44
    Upholstered, I guess. Yeah. Thank you for that. Recovered. Yeah. And so in that sense, it would make it possible for them to cut up the old fabric used on the sofa. and um because it's also included in the limited edition of uh one of her books which is a photo book that i uh i bought a couple years ago so it not the first time that they offer this fabric as a part of a sort of limited edition type of thing My guess is they have a ton of fabric laying around and they need to get rid of it.
    26:26
    Yes, and you don't know how many times it's been recovered or reupholstered in the past either. So it may not be the only one. But, yes, it's one of the key benefits of the Signature Edition, that and the card, I think. There are other differences as far as the body armour of the game goes. You get an extra level and you get the kind of glossy embossed side decals that you got with the Batman 66.
    26:59
    Super limited edition. But we haven't seen those yet. or got to get our hands on them, so we don't know quite how embossed they are. Right. But it's, yeah, I'm not going to say it's a lot of money, but it is a lot of money.
    27:16
    But it's a limited edition. It's a super limited edition with only 50 of them being made, as opposed to, I think, 500 of the regular limited edition. Yeah. And the premium unlimited. But as we say, the gameplay is identical on all three models. Right. Similar to the Batman 66 model as well, I suppose.
    27:40
    Which is actually becoming... And also with Beatles, so I guess, generically speaking, the non-Cornerstone type games that Stern is putting out still might have three different models, but those are games that have, on all models, the same playfield and gameplay, while with the Cornerstone titles, you actually get two different playfields, one on the Pro, and then there's the Premium and the LE models, which also have the same playfield. So, oh well.
    28:21
    Yeah, so the promotion of the game now starts in earnest, and Elvira herself, Cassandra Peterson, will be promoting the game. She'll be at Pinball Expo in Wheeling in October, in the middle of October. She'll be there on the Friday and the Saturday, and she'll be there at 7pm on the Friday for the, I think it's the official launch of Elvira's House of Horrors. Right. where they're having a separate launch party in the Botanic Garden Ballroom at the West Inn in Wheeling. And actually, that's running in parallel with another Stern seminar in the seminar hall. So you have to pick and choose which one of those you want to go to. Right. Well... I think Dwight is doing his family feud thing in the main seminar hall. Not sure I know what that is about, but... Well, I think it's part of the Stern-o-rama. I guess it probably is. It's the Stern kind of takeover, which they're doing on the Friday, which was going to be on Saturday. Well, actually, Stern is still quite present on the seminar program on Saturday as well, with Steve Ritchie doing a seminar, and then Keith Elwin also a seminar on Jurassic Park, followed by a seminar with the entire team behind Elvira's House of Horrors, including Cassandra Peterson, but it also features Dennis Nordman, Greg Freres, Tom Cupera, Lyman Shee, Jerry Thompson, Chuck Ernst, Paul Chemnenkit, Lindsay Freres Schupkegel, which is Greg Freres' daughter, and as a special guest moderator, Jonathan Justin of Pinball Magazine.
    30:17
    Nope, never heard of him. Oh, well. So there's quite a lot of Stern presence on the Saturday afternoon, I would say, as well.
    30:32
    That's all at Pinball expo i look forward uh to this edition and of course moderating this um uh this seminar um it's a lot of people on stage uh and there's only one hour so um it's going to be interesting uh to have everybody talk a little bit about uh their part in the game yeah absolutely so if you want to ask the team members any questions or raise any points for them, then Pinball Expo is the place to be.
    31:08
    You will also get a blatant plug-in for the fact that I will be there video recording all the seminars this year, and they will all be available on the Pinball News YouTube channel after the event. If you actually want to be there and ask questions and interact with the team and maybe get Alvaro to sign things or any other members of the team to sign souvenirs. Pinball experts, where you need to be on Friday and Saturday. And I have it on good info that this might be very likely the only occasion that Dennis Norman is going to be talking about the game in public.
    31:57
    Right. Since he's working for Deep Root, obviously he will have to focus on the games that he will be manufacturing at Deep Root in future promotional appearances and so on. So, any questions asked about Dennis' work on the game should be asked at Expo. and I am trying to get Dennis down for an interview as well, possibly during Pinball Expo.
    32:29
    We'll see how that goes. Yeah, well, part of that, as I said, strange situation we've got at the moment where you can kind of talk about the game, but you can only talk about it for Pinball Expo weekend, and after that everyone goes off and, well, Dennis can't talk about it anymore after that probably, or only in a very limited way. Now he's, as you said, working at Deep Root on his own games for that company. And he'll want to spend his time promoting that or those. But I guess Stern and Greg can still go out there and promote. But I don't know if Cassandra is doing any more appearances for the game. I haven't heard of any. No, and trust me, I'm trying.
    33:15
    Yes. So that's your opportunity. Yeah, I guess. So that's a pretty good wrap-up of Stern's, I guess, and Whizbang's Alvara House of Horror. I don't want to sound like a pessimist, but I guess the overall conclusion on this Alvara game is it's a great-looking game. And basically now, in Lyman, we trust.
    33:46
    Yeah, well, yeah, a game is more than just code and art, and it's where the playfield shots look fun. But, yeah, it needs to be a fun game overall, and I'm sure it will get there in the end, even if it was only hinted at what was possible during the live stream. Right. So our third headline this month was also a Stern title, but a far from new one, one that's been around for a good number of years. So it's interesting that it's made it into our headlines in September 2019. Yeah, well, there's a good reason for that. people who have bought Ghostbusters pinball machines, which is the game that we're talking about, have been asking Stern for a code update for quite some time.
    34:46
    And Stern even indicated for quite some time that they are working on a Ghostbusters update. But other games were prioritized, and you know how things go. So it took a while for Dwight Sullivan and his team to get around to it.
    35:04
    But in this case, I guess you could say it must have been worth the wait. Or what's the expression? No, I think you've said it quite right. It's a really comprehensive update in version 1.16. It long awaited, but I think it was worth the wait, as you said, because it's come out and it's got huge, well, I think you described it to me earlier as completely changing the way the game plays. Yeah, I've seen people come out and people are basically telling them they got a new game even though they already have it for three years in their house.
    35:50
    So they basically added music, they added modes, they added voice calls. the way existing modes are played changed, scoring changed, and it's supposed to be more balanced now. They tried to take out some of the cheat possibilities in the game. The unbalanced scoring opportunities, shall we say. Yeah. And I've seen nothing but positive feedback from people who installed it on their game and were completely blown away with how much fun it is. And so that's a big compliment to Dwight Sullivan and his team.
    36:38
    That's, well, they came and they conquered, I guess. Yeah, they came and they kicked ass. Yeah. Yes, the addition of the wizard modes, pre-wizard modes, and the wizard mode, the We Are Ready to Believe You and the Are You a God final wizard mode, really making a complete game, I think, at last, along with their sort of trainer mode as well, which they put in, which they call the God mode, which allows you to basically jump straight into the we are ready to believe you. Yeah, which is the pre-wizard mode, which is something similar to what we've seen on Safecracker where you could play a different game.
    37:36
    Yeah, Assault Evolved. Yeah, Assault Evolved, multi-ball, you go straight to that. And I think there was another game that also had such a... Twilight Zone had a cheat mode for getting straight into the loss in the zone, so you could just play that finale mode as well, which is a good training mode for those people who will never get to the final mode. Either the game's set up really hard or their skill level's not enough.
    38:07
    Or just for guests, if they just want to see what the game's got to offer when you complete it, rather than having to go through the whole process. And there it is.
    38:18
    Do they either turn it on or press a flipper button code and go straight into it? Right. Which is a nice option to have.
    38:26
    It's not something people are going to use who own the game, I don't think, other than just as a novelty.
    38:33
    But it gives them the opportunity to see what they're aiming for. Right. I think Stern really delivered on this code update, and so we have to applaud them for that, for still catering to a three-year-old game, basically. And immediately, of course, there are rumors that there might be a vault edition coming up now that the game improved so much. Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. We'll see. you know um it's interesting that that that was that that code took a long time and um obviously they have a lot of other responsibilities and pressures on their time at stern to produce code for new games but also that was something which was cited you know going back to our previous stories um cited about a reason that elvira game didn't come out earlier they said The game was basically done hardware-wise, but they hadn't assigned anybody to do the software on it. And that was two years ago. I guess Lyman was assigned to it, but Lyman was working on Batman Code for quite a while and other games that he was involved in.
    39:52
    So it's the pressure that the software guys are under these days with so many different titles. Not just new releases, and also going back and making changes to pre-existing games. Right.
    40:06
    But, no, kudos to Dwight and his team on delivering this. This actually made a lot of people happy. So if you own a Ghostbusters game, make sure you get the update, and you'll be experiencing a completely new game. Yeah, it should be good for those people who are operating the game as well. Once people know there's new software out there, then they'll want to replay it. If they thought they were familiar with it and maybe got bored with the old software, on location they can go and find a game that's got the new stuff and play a whole new game. Yeah, the only thing it doesn't fix is the flipper gap. But, oh well.
    40:50
    There are other ways of doing that. Right. One other thing I noticed with Stern, last month we had Jack Buonieri commenting on or making a statement about playfield issues with clear code not being completely hardened out or whatever you call it.
    41:20
    Pooling or chipping. Yes, exactly. It appears that, well, we know that Stern was having similar problems, and it appears that Stern at least looked into a solution in terms of adding a blank space around stand-up posts on the playfield, where there is no artwork, so that the clear would attach better to the wood. there was a photo circulating on the internet where a jurassic park playfield was shown where there were clearly blank areas around all the stand-up posts on the playfield followed by a big black outline and then the playfield art would continue on the prototype of Elvira. This wasn't the case, but it might very well be the case on the production models if the clear code issues haven't been solved in the meantime.
    42:26
    So I just figured I'd mention that. Not sure if you have any comments. Yeah, it does kind of verify what we were speculating last time, that maybe the issues are with the bonding of the clear to the artwork, and the artwork to the wood. Right. So there's those two joints, effectively.
    42:51
    But Stone presumably thinks that putting the clear coat directly onto the wood resolves that issue, or at least helps heavily in preventing and chipping. Right. And if it chips, then I don't know. Even if it chips, then there's no artwork damaged.
    43:10
    Yes, that's true. It could be filled in again fairly easily, you would think, with a little bit of clear superglue,
    43:19
    a thin superglue like people have done with inserts in the past. So, yes, it could be done. Right. But, yes, it's interesting to see that because I think when Jurassic Park first came out, it didn't have that, those clear areas around the posts. And the current version or the production version does, as you said. So that's something which they've obviously changed. Yeah. And then one last thing related to Stern Pinball,
    43:51
    a project that Jack Danger has been sort of involved in, together with a guy from Finland whose name is currently escaping me.
    44:00
    Let me try and look that up. I can't access my email right now. Sorry. but so this guy from Finland worked on a project where you could actually play a Batman 66 pinball machine online in the sense that you would actually be playing a real pinball machine online you're not playing a virtual game but no you're actually playing a real game online and you're flipping with the flippers with your keyboard and they made that work with cameras and everything that you need so the game is streamed live and you're looking at it and I'm still wondering how if there is much of a delay causing you not to be accurate that would be the first thing I thought of what is the lag between you pressing the button and the flippers flipping and obviously you wouldn't be able to nudge it yourself you can nudge the keyboard all you want well it may have a space bar might be attached to some kind of solenoid or motor or something which does actually shake the game but it would clearly only be one person at a time who would be able to play the game although it's accessible and viewable by everyone right somehow it's going to have to lock the uh lock the game out so one person at a time is actually in control of it yeah but uh but they are running a tournament on it so uh if you feel like it um um go give it a try it should not be that difficult to uh uh to locate online where to find that and um um my guess is you can win cool prizes well let's hope so and um talk with One more thing, which we were talking about Jurassic Park a little earlier. A new version of the game code came out this month in September, version 0.88 for Jurassic Park, which was actually a big update. I mean, it's still a new game, so there's a lot of changes going on. And I think the changes which have taken place with this new version are, well, quite substantial. There's been lots of new voice calls, display effects, bug fixes, and adjustments to features as well, and the way that they work and the scores that they give. So that game is still developing as well. So if you haven't upgraded your Jurassic Park to 0.88, then get to it because it's definitely a worthwhile update. Right. And speaking of code updates, that's a nice bridge to code updates from other companies. in this case, Jersey Jack Pinball comes to mind, who released a new code update for Dialed In,
    47:07
    as well as the current Willy Wonka game, which is still on the line. Yeah, the Dialed In game, some models or some machines did have a problem with the phone screen going blank or black during the game and basically losing the video signal. It looks like the version 1.73, which they've just brought out,
    47:39
    has fixed that. As far as I've seen, everybody who had that problem hasn't reported seeing it recur. So that's good. They also did a little tweak to the order in which the game does a ball search when it loses track of where the ball is on the playfield. So it does check the QED guy and bet the diversers as well first, rather than leaving those to the end. So those are the key sticking points where a ball might get hung up in the game. So that should speed up the gameplay, which is good.
    48:14
    Willy Wonka, 1.14 latest version. A few bug fixes, and also does a few mechanical changes, mainly with regard to diverter timing. to try and stop instances where the ball would fly around moving really fast and Sylvester wouldn't be able to get there in time to send it to where it's meant to go. But that's hopefully been improved now with the new version for Willy Wonka, which, as you say, is currently on the line. Right. So, moving on to Spooky Pinball.
    48:49
    Yeah, Spooky Pinball. Oh, actually, I should probably just mention, before we leave Jersey Jack completely, although there isn't a new code yet for Pirates of the Caribbean that is still stuck on well I say stuck it's just shy of a production version at 0.99 where it's been since April but Jersey Jack Pinball did confirm that there is an update coming but they couldn't say exactly when it is likewise there was no further statement on the clear coat issue as we were saying earlier but yes, on to Spooky Pinball Yes, sorry, let me stop interrupting you.
    49:25
    Actually, I was going to let you start talking about the passing of Sid Haig. You know more about that than I do.
    49:39
    Yeah, Sid was a well-known actor, film producer, a musician, and appeared in lots of movies, in fact, but in the pinball context was Captain Spaulding in the Rob Zombie films, and so was instrumental in making the Rob Zombie Spook Show International game, doing lots of call-outs for that game, and was very supportive of the whole project and worked closely with the Spooky Pinball team on that, and his passing was announced, I think, about a week ago, which was very sad, obviously, a very well respected and regarded multi-talented guy so sad that he's no longer with us but his work obviously lives on both in his music and films and in the Rob Zombie game right so needless to say that Spooky Pinball responded to this and they were what's the best word sorry to hear about his passing and obviously they had a great relationship with Sid so condolences to Spooky Pinball for this loss and also to Sid Hecht's family and so on absolutely and furthermore on Spooky Pinball news they are currently still building Alice's Cooper Nightmare Castle limited to 500 units and as they announced earlier they expect to finish that production by the end of December there are still a few open spots so if you're interested in a Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle pinball machine and you don't want to wait long then this is probably your chance to get one yeah there aren't a huge number out there with a limited run of 500, but I have to say that everybody who's played one that I've spoken to have been very impressed by the game, and I think having played it, it's led to quite a lot of orders for the game, certainly in the UK.
    51:56
    After the disappearance at the UK Pinfest show, then I think there were several people who bought the game on the basis,
    52:06
    off the back of that, having had a chance to play it, and were thoroughly impressed. So, yeah, but it is limited to 500. So, no matter how impressed you are, if there are no more available, then you'll be kicking yourself. So, get out there and find one and play it and see what you think. Right So I trying to see where we should be Oh yeah music I leave this one to you you the music guy I guess this was announced already last month Scott Neneasy did release the remastered version of his Total Nuclear Annihilation soundtrack album I guess you can call it which includes a bonus track called Scarlet, which is not in the game, although I guess it's up to Scott whether to decide if he wants to do a code update, and he might actually bring that song into the game, which wouldn't matter to me in the sense that I don't get further than three different tunes in the game, because I'm not that good of a player, so I still have to listen to the soundtrack to listen to what else is in the game.
    53:24
    And on this new remastered version Scott brought back the original intro track to the game the tune with the high beep where he actually I think he lowered that specific beep with an octave on the original soundtrack but as people complained about that and they really wanted that beep back he listened to them and brought it back so if you're curious about that the album is available on Spotify and all sorts of streaming services so just search for Total Nuclear Annihilation by Scott Denise and you'll find it there Great okay so let's carry on with companies who are producing pinball games right now rather than ones which are upcoming and move on to American Pinball who have been busy. By the time you're listening to this it will be October and their current game is of course Oktoberfest which is of course not the actual Oktoberfest isn't just about October, it's about September and October. It's a long event but they've been taking advantage of the current Oktoberfest celebrations in order to promote their games, haven't they, Jonathan? Yes, they have. Didn't keep track of all of them, but obviously it makes sense.
    55:02
    They did showcase a couple of new locations where the game is available to play. And there are Oktoberfest events where the game is promoted, like you said. and one of the shows that they will be attending the upcoming month is the Global Gaming Expo in Las Vegas that is held from October 15 to 17 which is interesting because I'm not sure how many pinball companies will actually be representing pinball at this Global Gaming Expo because I think it's more computer game focused, I'd say. But haven't been there yet. That's right up just before Expo, isn't it? Yes.
    55:56
    That'll be the last day of that. Expo starts on the 16th, I think, so the 15th and 17th in Las Vegas. They're going to be doing that, and of course they'll be rushing over to straight afterwards. Right, and speaking of Pinball Expo. There it is again. American Pinball will be doing a seminar and they are, according to the latest seminar program that I have in front of me, they are scheduled to do a seminar on the Thursday at 6.30.
    56:29
    Interestingly, that will be a seminar with speakers Josh Kugler and Joe Schober, but Joe Balser, the playfield designer and operations manager of American Pinball is not listed as a speaker. I'm not sure whether that's an error, because I think he was listed earlier to speak as well, or whether he has other obligations, I don't know. But I just noticed that, and I thought it was interesting to notice, to mention. I don't think American will be launching a new game at Expo, will they? No, well, it's interesting that you bring that up. They might not be launching a new game at Expo, but they might be launching a game still this year. I've been trying on behalf of the Dutch Pinball Open Expo, which is held November 9 and 10 in Zwolle in the Netherlands, to get Joe Balser in particular, or staff from American Pinball, to represent the company, to come over as a special guest to the event, do some seminars and so on. And I was told that due to the game number three, Priorities and Release, nobody was available to attend the event.
    58:02
    So take from that what you think that you can take. But it looks like early November or mid-November or end of November, we might be looking at a third release from American Pitbull. Yeah, I wonder if that would maybe coincide with something like the Houston Arcade Expo. because that will be in November.
    58:29
    And I think they've certainly stated, the Americans have stated their desire to at least have one game released per year.
    58:38
    And given how Expo has been the launchpad for their first two games, it's understandable that they don't want to do it this year with all the Elvira stuff going on there. so a secondary event or a latter event will give them a better launchpad and more time to get themselves ready for the launch of game number 3 which I think we're all interested in exactly what it's going to be because we haven't had any leaks really have we on that one? No, we do have some assumptions, which we discussed in earlier podcasts,
    59:28
    where it could either be Robin Hood or Sherlock Holmes. Yeah. Curious to see if it will be either one of these two, or maybe something completely different.
    59:38
    Yeah, could be, yeah. But we're not going to find out what that is, I don't think, in this coming month anyway. So look out for that in November. but I've mentioned about Youth and Arcade Expo exactly which is going to be if not a launch pad then maybe a sneak peek at exactly what another pinball company Deep Root Pinball have been working on they said that they were going to be presenting several of their Raza that's the Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland games and they will be revealing them at the Houston Arcade Expo in November.
    60:23
    Since then, there's been a little bit of backpedalling on it, but they will still be there. But they will be presenting two, I think they said,
    60:37
    two of the early prototype Razor games. And by early prototype, they mean that they will not have the final it won't be the final design playfield design, it won't be the final art and it won't be the final code Right, well it's difficult to code a game if playfield isn't done Well you'd think so and this is not a launch this is kind of like a concept preview shall we say, of what it is they're working on Right. So they will only have a minimal presence at the show, just in order to collect user data, which I guess means how the game stands up to being played or being flipped for three days in a row. Right. But the game itself won't be launched until early next year. That's the current timescale on that game. but there was Jeff from This Week in Pinball had an interesting interview with Deep Roots Head, Robert Muller he said carried on about their plans for the Houston Arcade Expo and what they're going to show and how their design systems I should say will be totally different from anything anybody else has ever done.
    62:10
    There are different types of technology they're bringing to the game as far as live rendering and pre-rendered and live action, I think is a term that they use. So exactly what that means, we won't really get to see until Houston in November. But it was a very interesting interview from Jeff and Robert, so congratulations to them. Well, it's certainly interesting to see, at one point, Deepwood is certainly differentiating themselves from other pinball companies as they tend to trash the other companies far more than I've seen other companies do in the past and still not having any product to show for it. Well, that obviously makes it easier to trash other companies who haven't got anything that they can criticize you for.
    63:12
    But Robert was certainly picking up on the playfield issues that other companies have had and was very vocal, or in written terms vocal, about how deep-roots pinball playfields are going to be, are not going to suffer from any of these problems are going to have a 10 year warranty on any playfield damage including dimpling which kind of suggests that they might be using a different technology rather than wood for their playfields. Stone?
    63:47
    No stone I know that when Antonio from Quetzalpimble was looking at finishing the Captain Nemo games he was looking at playfield surfaces but couldn't find one on which the ball rolled in the way in which he wanted which didn't behave significantly different to the way the ball rolls on wood and the spin and the grip that it gets so in the end he did end up going back to a wooden surface but maybe with a whole new system they'll have a different feel Well, Belli experimented with that in the past as well. I do remember seeing a speakeasy playfield, which was basically completely plastic.
    64:42
    But it turned out to be a nightmare in production, as it was very difficult to get the screws in there. That's right. and so that didn't while it looked great and it supposedly would always look great it did have its issues so to speak when it comes to production absolutely but to be fair they were trying to use a manufacturing method based around a wooden playfield to build a game with a plastic playfield using the same tools. If you design the game in the first place, not to use wood, but to be plastic, then you can do a lot of different things with it. That's true, I guess. Just look at what Multimorphic and Jerry's done with the P3, with a plastic playfield. Right. So that shows it can be done. And you still have to wonder, yes, people always tend to say that they like how a ball rolls on wood, but with all these clear-coated wooden playfields, technically the ball is rolling on the clear coat and not on the wood.
    65:57
    Yeah, and people kind of say that they like a mirror-finished clear coat, in which case you say there's no... In that case, you're not even picking up any of the grain of the wood and getting any purchase of the ball on that, so it might as well be a plastic playfield.
    66:16
    Yeah. Or a stone one or whatever. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Maybe slate, yeah. Okay, so that's one thing from, well, a couple of things from Deep Root, but there was some other news as well, which I wasn't expecting. I don't know whether you were. No, I wasn't expecting it either, and I was even put off on, slightly on the wrong foot, I guess. We have to congratulate Barry Osler for getting married.
    66:46
    Yes, congratulations to Barry. Yeah, that came out of left field, as we could see. Yeah, well, I wasn't really paying that much attention to Barry. And interestingly, the pictures of the wedding showed up on my Facebook timeline, and they were posted by someone in attendance of the wedding. And it basically said something like, someone got married, guess who? Something like that, in that kind of order. um obviously it was barry osler um and i guess there were like a dozen photos but it wasn't until the last two pictures that i actually got to see the bride because prior to that i was almost under the assumption that barry was married to uh a man because that man was appearing in all of those pictures um and completely dressed up for uh um for the wedding So, which is, if that would have been the case, it's completely fine with me.
    67:48
    But eventually turned out to be not the case. Although it had me wondering for a second, like, really? I didn't know that. But okay.
    67:57
    But that was quite funny. But I'm very happy for Barry that he married again. Obviously, Barry is a widow, for those who don't know. and I'm happy to see that he found a new love in his life. Yeah, absolutely. Congratulations to him from, I'm sure, all of us in the pinball community. I was a little taken aback initially because it was only probably, I don't know, a week or so earlier that I got a message from Barry saying, my Facebook account's been hacked. Don't click on any links you may have been sent from me or believe any of the posts that might be posted under my name. and then lo and behold, pictures of him being married. But the fact they were pictures, I guess, means it took away any doubts I had. So congratulations to Barry and Kathy. Yeah, and at the wedding, several of Barry's colleagues from Deep Root were present.
    69:02
    I do recall seeing John Papaduic being there and Stephen Bowden, possibly more but I didn't recognize everybody I guess and I don't have them in front of me right now so I can't check yeah well it was their day so congratulations to them and we'll look forward to seeing them I don't know will they both be at Expo but I'm sure Barry will be there I'm not sure whether he will obviously he moved but he's no longer living in Chicago but I'm sure he'll be there There is no Deep Root seminar scheduled as far as I could see at Expo. No, I don't think so.
    69:45
    No, they're keeping their powder dry until Houston. And as we said before, that won't be the launch of any of their games. But maybe Texas next year will be.
    70:01
    Or maybe later. Maybe Midwest. yeah yeah that's a week later so yeah okay yeah well yeah okay moving on yep um so another company which um well not a company i guess so far because i haven't produced any games um and i don't know whether they've sold anything yet but uh um haggis pinball um who are working on their celt game and now that was uh when was that game Was that going to be shown at Expo, Jonathan? Yes. Do you remember? It was. Well, actually, it was supposed to be shown at the Brisbane Masters already, which was in August, I think.
    70:46
    They were going to show it there, and then they reserved already a container to ship like a dozen games to Pinball Expo. and I guess the last thing I saw about it is that it's now scheduled for November. So I guess that sort of indicates that we might not be seeing it at ACFO.
    71:14
    That would be a shame. Although I think it's been delayed before, but I was looking forward to seeing what progress they've made on developing Celts.
    71:29
    whether we'll see anything or not don't know though the I don't think there's a seminar scheduled at Expo for that game no didn't see one no no so no well maybe nothing maybe that'll be Houston as well who knows I'm not sure that it will be at Houston but oh well best of luck with them to them but it is interesting to see that there is so much delay for basically a single level playfield with no ramps. So you might wonder like okay how difficult is it going to be? I mean I can see that adding ramps and working up in height on a playfield might make it more difficult. But apparently even if you don't have those then it's still hard I guess to design a pinball machine and get it into production well it seems like it's a passion project really and it's not a full time well there's no income coming from it at the moment, there's no sales so I'm sure it's something that's being done in spare time and documented online so I'm sure if you want to find out more you can go to the haggis pinball youtube channel and see what their latest update there is but um it's i guess it's i'm not going to say the uh the classic phrase everybody says about how it is not that easy to make a pinball as people think but um it's real life can intervene as well with some of these uh things especially when it's when it's your it's just you or a couple of you working on a project um if something happens in real life and you're unable to devote the amount of time you thought you're going to to it then yeah delays will will appear and uh but you know they haven't uh they haven't got and promised anything so far so well they promised but uh other than that they didn't sell any games and they don't owe anybody any money or something I guess. Yeah. Okay. So talking of maybe companies who do owe people money or a company. Right. My guess is you're going to Dutch Pinball.
    73:51
    Good guess. Yeah. Let's go to that because I'm sure you've got some information about what's been going on with Barry's plans to deal with the parts that he's got from ARA and how production is, or plans for production are going,
    74:13
    wherever all these parts have ended up. Right, okay, well, to start off with the good news, the remaining parts that were still stored at ARA during their summer holiday break has been picked up by Barry.
    74:35
    First they have been put in a temporary storage, and then a few days later he got the keys to his new facility.
    74:45
    And since then he has been moving parts in there, organizing things and working towards setting up production, I guess. Interestingly, I did not speak to Barry the past month, although Barry reached out to me asking me what was up instead of me doing that to him, which is the usual routine, I'd say.
    75:13
    Is there any information on where this facility is? Yeah. Or is that public knowledge? I'm not sure whether it's public knowledge but it's apparently I think he's living maybe two or three blocks away from it to put it in American phrases so it's rather close to his home which is probably best I mean the ARA facility was a one and a half hour drive away for Barry so that wasn't very convenient and now it's basically walking distance I would say so that's a good thing I don't know whether production actually already started I haven't seen the signs of that but there was an interesting newsletter published I have to do this from the top of my head since my computer crashed in the meantime and I turn it off so but in the newsletter in short early achievers who were who felt left out when the the recent the sale of the existing games that were stock stored at ARA that were sold through coin taker some early achievers felt left out because they felt like they have would have wanted to be prioritized in the sense that they would have wanted to be able to buy such a game for twelve and a half thousand dollars um so that they basically would have a game ready to play and one on order but by the time the one on order would get built they could either decide to sell it or uh do whatever something else with it now so very received multiple requests which made him decide to send out a newsletter offering to early achievers which are the people who already prepaid for a game and are basically owed a game at this point that they could buy a $12,500 game which would then be one of the first games to be manufactured in the new facility and ship to them and then they can still choose what to do with the original order the original game that they have on order so um i haven't watched whether there were any comments or how the how the response was to that but since this was sort of initiated by some of the people who are actually owed a game um i guess okay if they feel like um uh buying such a game sure okay why not I'm on the list of getting a game as well but I didn't feel like I should buy another game to get going so I'll just wait in line until my number is up and hopefully I will get there soon well one of the key things I think about the deal was that if you did pay you know, the $12,500 now, and or when the game is ready not prepaid you pay it when it built okay and you one of the first ones to get one of the new games Of course, by paying that money, you give working capital to Dutch Pinball to carry on and build all the other games, or help do that.
    79:02
    Anyway, when your early achiever model, which you would have got eventually, is ready, you will then have the option to get a full refund as well. and you didn't have to take the delivery of the game and then try and sell it to someone. You could just say, I don't want the game. Sell it and I'll take my money back, please, at that point. But that's how it works. If it gets to that point, it means that that game, that 12,500 you put up at the start would be refunded, so you'd still have a game and that wouldn't cost you any more than your initial payment. Right, okay. So, I guess that's the news on Dutch Pinball. I do hope they get into production really quickly.
    79:52
    Yeah, I think everybody does. Yeah, and I guess it's not too buried to gather a team of people who can assemble these games. And hopefully we'll be able to get started on building them soon. yeah and we'll of course keep you updated with all this progress and uh who knows we might even get him back on for another interview uh before right or too long he can tell you all about it himself sure well that would be fun so um maybe we could do something like that uh with our podcast for next month we'll see depends on what the news is of uh of the coming month yeah um although So my guess is the year. It's going to be a busy time, I think, for us, isn't it, the coming month? Yeah, well, it's People Expo month. So, yes, that's going to be a busy month. I look forward to going there, although I won't be there the entire time, unlike previous times. But I do have a conflicting dance music event in Amsterdam. but I was able to well I figured like okay I could do two days of this event and then hop on a plane go to Expo and arrive Friday late in the evening and still be part of Expo for at least another 24 to 36 hours and see a lot of people and so on yeah there's a lot of show so even a couple of days gets you great value I hope so I will be there of course for the entire duration including a couple of days before and a good few days afterwards as well after which I shall be downtown in Chicago with my good friend Dan and I think another friend of ours Mike's joining us this time and we'll be touring the many arcades and barcades in Chicago and checking out what they have to offer I will be hanging around until Tuesday, so I might actually catch up with you on Monday or something like that. Absolutely. If you would like me to.
    82:07
    We will arrange that, I'm sure, in due course. It'll happen, I'm sure. Now, speaking of Pinball Expo, this is the 35th edition,
    82:24
    making it, well, it was already the longest-running pinball show on an annual basis and basically sort of the mother of all pinball shows you could call it.
    82:38
    And I actually I rang Rob Berg and asked him why we should, why everybody should be attending Expo. So let's take a listen to what Rob had to say. On the on the and all the unusual things we were offering this year.
    82:59
    Did you happen to see that yet? I saw something about some sort of Halloween kind of hunt or something. That was one thing, but there's also one called Firmless Pinball. There was Pinquest. There was Pachinko Fever.
    83:21
    Of course, Alvaro. Right. Seminars as usual? A little longer hours. And there's going to be a stress having there in Alabama this year on Friday. Right. And then I guess the news is Saturday, Marco has got a party going on. they're calling it a private party but it's starting at 10pm which could run all night there'll be tickets that get offered at the expo to get into it I believe on the Marcos personal website there's more information about their party for Saturday night any special activities because it's the 35th edition well I'm bringing in a load of games from Spain never before seen in America so that would be interesting I guess Pinball is coming from Australia which I think will be their first time coming Dino Gasparri is coming as a vendor from Canada he'll be there for the first time your buddy Giacomo is coming as a vendor from London England I'm a Pinball creative now I tell you one thing that I'm kind of excited about is on Saturday at 6pm we're going to have this talk with all the ballet artists and designers. Right. So the idea, it's almost like a fireside chat in a way. So I think it'd be kind of fun to have all these balletites all together under one room. Right. Just to share some special times together. The schedule is so full again. It just, you know, you can hardly move.
    85:11
    And as you see, we have the Hall of Fame on Thursday night. You just couldn't find the space to put it any other place. And then I'll be speaking about kind of like a slide presentation or a PowerPoint presentation of some highlights of the first 24 years. Right, yeah. And then, Jonathan, we're having that pinball auction Saturday. I'm not sure if you caught that or not. Well, I did see that. I was wondering, so are you auctioning off games of yourself or is a third-party company doing that? Yeah, it'll be a third-party company. They'll have about 50 games there.
    85:54
    And the auction is going to start Saturday morning at 10 a.m., but it's going to be an online auction. Okay.
    86:02
    So the games will be on the floor, and people can play them throughout the whole week of Expo. But then I think starting at 6 o'clock is when they start closing the auction down.
    86:16
    So if no one places a bid, then I believe it should be every two minutes. It'll end at 6 o'clock, and if no one places a bid, then 6.02, the next machine will be up for bid. Right. And they keep going back and forth until the bidding stops for that, for two minutes, and then the next, if everyone goes, though. Right. It'll probably go until, I'm guessing, 9 o'clock or so.
    86:43
    Okay. Okay, so yeah, obviously that's simultaneously with seminars in another room, I assume. Right, but let's face it, as long as you've got your phone, you can place your bid just right off your phone. Right, right, so you don't have to be present in the room. Correct.
    87:02
    Okay, that could be interesting. so speaking of games at Expo last year you already expanded quite a bit on the amount of games the number of games present at the show how will that be this year?
    87:18
    well my goal is to hit 500 time will tell but I'm bringing over 100 games myself so I just want to be a very special event for everybody it's ambitious we've got to shoot high but we've a lot of people making commitments, so as long as they come through, we should be in good shape. Right, okay. So any comments about the vendor hall?
    87:41
    It's going to be packed again. You know, we just about sold out, so if anyone were to want to get in at this point in time, we couldn't even get them in. The first time we sold out the vendor hall is the first time we sold out the hotel.
    87:57
    So anyone that wants to come to the show, they've got to go to an alternate hotel. all. Hmm, okay. Because of the concern of overflow of parking needs, we're actually, we've been arranging to have a parking facility. It's very close to the hotel, and they'll have shuttles back and forth for any overflow of parking.
    88:19
    And also something new this year is, you know, typically we have one design of shirt that we offer for attendees, you know, we sell. Right. This year we got three different designs. Okay. Are these designs made by anybody that we might know from the pinball industry? Yeah. Yeah, Chris Franke. Yeah. And then John Yossi is creating a design for us.
    88:48
    And another fellow out of Pennsylvania, Flyland Designs. So he's created a very, very unique and very colorful design. So we're going to have all three designs available with the show, so it should be a lot of fun. Okay, interesting. Now, Merco, our friends Merco from Germany, will not be coming to the show, but I've made arrangements for them that they're going to ship their playfields to the show, and my staff will be selling them with the show. Okay.
    89:22
    We'll also be selling playfield glass, playfield glass with the show, and we'll also be selling playfield dollies. or not, but pinball dollies. Okay.
    89:33
    Interesting. So you sort of have your own space in the vendor role, I guess? Exactly. I mean, I did last year too, but this year it's more to sell supplies from Merco and some other general supplies for the pinball community.
    89:55
    Right. Okay. And then, Jonathan, we're getting We're getting a lot of support from the local media, so we're going to, both radio and TV will be covering the expo.
    90:11
    So that will be a first for us as well, expanded coverage. Right. So you might actually have a lot of locals pulling in as well.
    90:21
    Well, that's what I'm really, really planning on. So anyone who's going to be a vendor there is going to see a lot of people inside there. It's going to be really wall-to-wall people. Right. Okay. Cool. So obviously for you, well, this is 35 or 34 years in the making, so to speak.
    90:44
    How excited are you, aside from exhaust and all the organizing? Yeah, I think it won't really hit me until the first day of the hall opens up because, you know, you can't concentrate on the end result until you do all the initial work needed to put this thing together, but it's getting closer and closer. So I know my wife's under a lot of stress because she's been doing a lot of work to make it proper for everybody and to make it an event to believe, saying that this was a very special time. Yeah, everything I've done is over the top this year. It's just about every possible thing we could do and ask for. It's all coming together. Well, so straight from the horse's heart, so to speak, Rob Burr from Pinball Expo, on an event that you absolutely cannot afford to miss. So make sure that you head out to Wheeling, Illinois, October 16th to the 20th. And it's funny enough you should mention that, because my phone is ringing right now, and it's somebody who's been to every single one of those. 34 so far, and we'll be at the 35th Expo. It's our good friend Gary. Gary, Gary Stern.
    92:00
    Yes, Gary's been at every... No, not Gary Stern. Gary Flower. Yes, Gary Flower. Yes. Yes, right there from the beginnings, the origins of the show, and I'm sure he's going to tell us all about... Well, tell us what it was like in the very early days of a pinball expo, and how the show has moved on since... Oh.
    92:22
    What? He's kind of hung up. What? I was just about to... I was just giving a big build-up and... Oh, he's so impatient. He does it every time.
    92:36
    Well, if you want to hear all the stories about the early days of Pinball Expo, you probably have to go to Pinball Expo and catch Gary there. And he will also be presenting some seminars, so you'll be able to catch him and ask him about that and everything else in pinball. Right. Because he, I'm sure, can tell you everything you need to know. Yeah. So one of the seminars that Gary will be moderating is actually a very interesting one, I think. Personally, I look forward to that. I know which one you mean. That's the Belly reunion seminar, which is being held on Saturday evening, currently scheduled at 6 p.m., although I would suggest, with the Elvira seminar being prior to that, that they move it to 6.30 and move LTG to later in the evening, which is after that seminar. But it's a reunion of belly pimple from people like Margaret Hudson, Dennis Norman, Greg Ferris, Dave Christensen, Greg Meek, Tom Neiman is going to be there. It's an all-star cast. Yeah, exactly. So that's one of the seminars that I'm really, really looking forward to. Yeah, I think more and more people are signing up for that almost on a daily basis. It started out as about four or five people, and it seems to have grown to more than a dozen people now and with more expected. Right. So, yeah, and with so many people on stage, you might need a little bit more time, and I'm sure they all have great stories to tell. At least that's what I hope, because that's the stuff we all want to hear about. So that's one of the seminars that I'm really looking forward to. do you have any favorites on your agenda that you're like, oh, I really would like to see how that's going down?
    94:36
    You are absolutely putting me on the spot here because I haven't looked at the seminar schedule for about two weeks now since it all changed. But I think I'm going to have to plump for the Elvira one because, I mean, she's always such great value. wherever she appears she was marvellous when she was at Texas and I'm sure she will be this time with and this time she'll have the entire the crew there from the game and the game itself so what's not to like about that so I think that's going to be my must see plus of course you know got a shout out for LTG as well the evening session always good fun with I think the suitably rowdy end to the day, which is always fun and a bit raucous, I'd say, rather than rowdy. Interestingly, at the current seminar schedule, it's not scheduled at the end of the day, which you would expect. Yeah.
    95:38
    I'm wondering whether this is going to change, because Well, I'm actually hoping it's going to change, first of all, because it's sort of traditional for LTG to close off the day. and second it would allow the Elvira seminar and the ballet seminar to run a little late both or give them a little bit more time because with so many people on stage an hour is probably not enough. I did notice there were a couple of seminars there where I thought really is that all the time they've been given? I'm sure they will overrun or if not they will have to continue out in the corridor or in a side room somewhere because I can't imagine all the questions are going to be asked for all the people in the time allotted at the moment. So keep an eye on the schedule for the seminar because I have a feeling things will be changing there and be a little bit fluid. Right. In the days and weeks leading up to it. Well, it will be days because it's not many weeks now. Right. So, yeah, it's going to be fun no matter what happens. Right. So then there is a little bit of news from Pinball Magazine. I'm not sure if you heard of that magazine. It's a publication that's more like a book.
    96:57
    Oh, yes. I may have heard of that. Right. Okay. So they have been – they had an issue. The second issue that they published was the issue that focused on the career of Dennis Nordman. and Greg Frayer has also chimed in, Cassandra Peterson had an interview in there and lots of interesting stuff on the career of Dennis Nordman. That issue has been sold out for over two years now. There is slightly good news in the sense that, as I'm the editor of Pinball Magazine, in case people forgot about that, I am looking into doing a reprint of that issue. there is one catch in order to do such a reprint to make it economically feasible I will have to add additional advertisements and I send out a mailing to potential advertisers offering them the chance to advertise in this reprint for a very affordable, I think, affordable advertising rate, which is two-thirds of a normal ad in a regular print run of Pinball Magazine, based on the fact that this print run will also be like half to two-thirds of a traditional print run. but for those who are missing Pinball Magazine No. 2 in their collection and there's quite a few people out there who have been requesting to reprint Pinball Magazine No. 2 there is this in the works so hopefully by let's say mid to end November if all goes well Pinball Magazine No. 2 should be available again good news there then and I think will there be any updates to any of the features in there the current changes in the past two years well it's interesting that you ask the magazine itself will keep its original content although some typos that have been spotted That will be corrected.
    99:35
    But as an editor, of course, let's say that I would do an interview with Cassandra Peterson right now and replace the original interview. That might upset the people that bought the original print or magazine when it was out. So instead, the idea is to do the reprint and do a... I'm trying to work out whether I can do a separate supplement with interviews with Dennis Norgman and Greg Ferris and hopefully Cassandra Peterson as well on the newest Elvira game, but also have Dennis talk about his current work at Deep Root as far as he can and such. the problem right now is that everybody involved in the Elvira game at Stern has been told that they can't do any interviews on the game until after Pinball Expo so I was hoping to have that supplement ready by Expo well that will not be the case so that will be at a later time but the idea is that once the supplement would be available, it's probably going to be a relatively cheap supplement to order. It will be in print. And for those ordering, Pimple Magazine number two will automatically get that supplement with it as well, if that all happens and if all these people are willing to contribute to such supplement. but I am working on something like that so thank you for asking that and allowing me to bring that in no no it's important I think I haven't got anything else to raise for this month have you well I'm looking at a black screen so I really couldn't be able to tell I guess that means we've covered everything I think we did we talked about a number of shows let me just put in a blatant plug quite a lot of these shows especially the ones that are held at hotels they often sell out their rooms very early on I know the Texas show sells out incredibly quickly it's in the same kind of speed at which Pinberg sells out so you really need to keep an eye on when these shows are and get in early with your bookings if you want to be guaranteed a room in the facility itself So I will plug and say check out the Pinball News Diary, which puts in all the shows that we know about or are told about. And at the moment that's going all the way up to November next year. Wow. Yes. So we mentioned the UK Pinfest show, for instance.
    102:46
    The dates for next year's show, that was August, the dates for next year's show are already in. And you can ring up and get the hotel booked now for that at the show rate. I know because I've done it.
    102:58
    And like Southern Fry, the game room and replay effects, all that, all in there. Pintastic, you know, Rocky Mountain, Ann Arbor shows, they're all there for next year. So check that out. And if you're going to those shows, make sure you get your bookings in nice and early. And if they're not there, please feel free to drop me an email at editor at pinballnews.com, and I will chase up the details for you and make sure they go on site as soon as possible. And with that latent plug, I think we can bring this podcast covering the exciting month of September 2019 to a close. thank you to Jonathan for co-hosting today you're very welcome thank you Martin as well and we look forward to greeting you for next month when we look back at all the events that have taken place and I'm sure there will be lots of them given everything that's happening in October and if you happen to be at Pinball Expo we always appreciate it if you see us and you want to say hi, please come over and say hi.
    104:16
    Absolutely. And if you've got any suggestions for things we could do that we're not doing or tell us the things that you like that we are doing, that's always helpful and good, useful feedback. Right. And for those people wondering, is Gary Fowler actually real? Yes, he will be at Expo, and we'd love to point him out to you so you can ask him yourself all the questions you have been dying to ask him.
    104:39
    Absolutely. So with that, we'll wrap up this podcast, and thank you very much for listening. And so from myself, Martin Erb, and from Jonathan Jewson of Pimple Magazine, that's him, we will wish you a very good bye. Okay. Thanks, and bye-bye.