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The Super Awesome Pinball Show - Year in Review 2023 Part 2

The Super Awesome Pinball Show·podcast_episode·2h 11m·analyzed·Jan 15, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

Spooky Pinball's record 2023: dual themes perfected, QC scaled, and 2024 show season anticipated.

Summary

In this Year in Review 2023 episode, Bug Emory (co-founder/designer at Spooky Pinball) discusses Spooky's record-breaking year, including the simultaneous dual-theme release of Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacre, strong sales driven by Scooby-Doo's launch, and improved quality control efforts. Bug reflects on lessons learned from dual-theme development, upcoming 2024 shows, and plans for future releases while maintaining Spooky's reputation for unconventional playfield designs and aggressive marketing.

Key Claims

  • Spooky had its biggest year ever in 2023 with record game sales, driven by Scooby-Doo launch and subsequent dual-theme releases

    high confidence · Bug directly states 'it was our biggest year yet with uh scooby-doo coming out at the tail end there' and 'Sales-wise, we had literally our best year ever.'

  • Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacre were designed simultaneously from the ground up with both themes in mind, not Texas Chainsaw first with Looney Tunes retrofit

    high confidence · Bug explicitly addresses the rumor: 'when we were designing the layout, we had both themes in mind the entire time, whole way through of all of the development' and 'Rumor dispelled.'

  • Spooky had growth every single year for 10 years and continues steady expansion

    high confidence · Bug states 'For 10 years, we've had very solid, steady growth.'

  • Spooky allocated 18 months maximum for a game build but has consistently finished earlier

    high confidence · Bug: 'So we always allot for a total of 18 months for a build. So we never let a build take longer than 18 months. And to this day, we've never even let one take that long.'

  • Halloween and Ultraman growth created build quality issues due to doubling from 750 to 1,700 units in 12 months

    high confidence · Bug explains: 'we went from 750 Rick and Mortys to spread over 12 months of work to 1,700 Halloweens and Ultramans to spread over 12 months of work, which was just this insane, stupid amount of growth... But that created some build quality issues.'

  • Spooky has scaled back production post-Scooby-Doo to prioritize quality over quantity going forward

    high confidence · Bug states: 'how many fantastic games can we get out the door. And if that means you have to build less a week, that's fine as long as they're good going out.'

  • Charlie Emery has stepped back from public-facing operations but remains involved in consulting and provides feedback on designs

    high confidence · Bug: 'he's definitely taken a step back out of the public eye per se... he's still consulting on everything he always has his eyes on everything'

Notable Quotes

  • “After the next five years are over, people are going to look back and say, wow, Spooky Pinball literally just did the greatest run of themes in history of this hobby.”

    Bug Emory @ ~26:30 — Confident assertion of Spooky's IP/theme selection strategy and future positioning; shows confidence in pipeline despite caution about discussing unannounced titles

  • “Hell no. Because it's so freaking hard. And by the time we get it out, we're always like, God. Oh man, that was rough.”

    Bug Emory @ ~14:45 — Direct statement on whether Spooky will do dual-theme releases again; shows toll of simultaneous development despite acknowledging strategic value

  • “The combination of those things is definitely our biggest success. And Bugs Screamin' stream.”

    Bug Emory @ ~32:00 — Identifies three major 2023 wins: Scooby-Doo launch, selling out TNA remakes, and dual-theme release; highlights streaming as community engagement tool

  • “We're all really young and crazy and just trying our absolute hardest every single day. I mean, we're not joking when we say we're at it seven days a week.”

    Bug Emory @ ~12:30 — Reveals intense work culture and continuous engagement at Spooky during dual-theme development

  • “When you take chances and you're putting something out there in the world of pinball that hasn't been tested for 30 years, the way a lot of products in this hobby are, you're opening yourself up for a lot of risk.”

    Bug Emory @ ~37:00 — Articulates Spooky's design philosophy of unorthodox layouts and the engineering rigor required to make them reliable

  • “We never want to break away from doing unique unorthodox designs, but we just want to make sure they're as robust as possible.”

    Bug Emory @ ~37:15 — Clarifies Spooky's commitment to innovative design without sacrificing reliability; addresses community perception of quality control

  • “So we have to spread it out evenly throughout the year. So we'll be building Looney Tunes TCM throughout all of 2024.”

Entities

Bug EmorypersonSpooky PinballcompanyCharlie EmerypersonSpooky LukepersonBen HeckpersonEric DepkepersonChristopher Franchiperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Spooky Pinball achieved record sales in 2023 with continuous year-over-year growth for 10 consecutive years; four titles simultaneously on production line in early 2024

    high · Bug: 'it was our biggest year yet' and 'For 10 years, we've had very solid, steady growth' and 'we had four different titles on our production line all at once'

  • ?

    community_signal: Spooky implements Bug's Screamin' Stream (weekly Thursday broadcasts) as replacement for 8-year podcast to maintain community interaction, code update showcases, and giveaways

    high · Bug: 'I do them every week... It fills the void of where the podcast used to kind of be for us... a place for us to get some more content out there and interact with everybody'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Spooky positions itself as only modern manufacturer executing dual-theme releases; Stern did Family Guy/Shrek 20+ years ago but has ceased this strategy

    high · Bug: 'we're still the only company out there that offers this... Stern did it back in the day with Family Guy and Shrek. But as of the last, like, 20 years, we're the only company doing this'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Spooky's commitment to unorthodox, untested playfield layouts requires robust engineering rigor; company accepts higher risk in exchange for innovation differentiation vs. industry standard designs

    high · Bug: 'We never want to break away from doing unique unorthodox designs, but we just want to make sure they're as robust as possible' and discussion of triple upper playfield complexity

  • $

    market_signal: Spooky's marketing strategy emphasizes unconventional engagement tactics (sending random game parts/swag to content creators, interactive toppers with giveaways); Bug and Spooky Luke actively scheme on marketing approaches to avoid repetition

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.394

0:00
After a year, the pinball podcasting legends are back again. You know them. You love them. You kiss their heavy metal boots out of respect. Please welcome back Fred G, Dr. Pin, and Jeff Parsons, collectively known as the Super Awesome Pinball Show.
0:59
We're back on track, and we're on the tack. Can't hold us back, no, no. We've been waiting for this, now our time is over.
1:11
We're back, cause nothing's ever done, it's your bad time, yeah. We're back, we're calling to the sky, let it roll, yeah. Yeah, we're back, on the road.
1:29
pinball shows year in review for 2023 as if the second half couldn't be any better than the first half. We've got George Gomez of Stern pinball, Josh Sharp from play mechanics, bug Emory of spooky pinball and Barry Dyson of Dutch pinball all here to grade their company for 2023 and maybe give us a sneak peek into 2024. So sit back and enjoy the show and we'll see you at the end.
1:59
The Super Awesome Pinball Show Year in Review 2023 Spooky Pinball Corwin Emery, better known as Bug, has been a big part of Spooky Pinball since day one. helping his dad Charlie merge their love for pinball and all things Spooky into a successful pinball company. Bug has steadily increased his involvement in the company, manufacturing, license acquisition, streaming, moving from working on game software to now designing his own games. He's got his hands in everything and is now the face of the company. We're happy to have him on to chat about Spooky's big year in 2023 and a little bit more about what's to come in 2024. Thanks for coming on and welcome to the show. Oh, dude, you've got the same shirt. That's what I meant, yeah. I thought you were just excited because I was rocking your swag. No, no, no, we're matching. Christian actually did a wardrobe change. I did. I put my man upstairs and I changed.

  • Spooky is the only modern manufacturer executing dual-theme releases; Stern did it with Family Guy and Shrek but not recently

    high confidence · Bug: 'we're still the only company out there that offers this. I mean, yes, Stern did it back in the day with Family Guy and Shrek. But as of the last, like, 20 years, we're the only company doing this.'

    • Bug Emory @ ~30:00 — Reveals production pipeline strategy and continuous manufacturing commitment to avoid employee layoffs

  • “I live in a 100-year-old funeral home. It's wild over here.”

    Bug Emory @ ~19:30 — Personal insight into Bug's living situation matching Spooky's brand aesthetic; explains company culture and family commitment to horror theme

    • Looney Tunes
    game
    Texas Chainsaw Massacregame
    Scooby-Doogame
    Halloweengame
    Ultramangame
    Rick and Mortygame
    The Super Awesome Pinball Showorganization
    Stern Pinballcompany
    TNA (Total Nuclear Annihilation)game
    Domino's Pizzagame
    Bug's Screamin' Streamevent
    Scooby-Doo Bookcase Topperproduct
    Franchiperson

    high · Bug: 'you sent random swag and game parts to content creators' and 'Spooky Luke and I were always scheming. We're always just trying weird things. And the other thing is that we're both just crazy enough to try things like that'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Charlie Emery (founder) has transitioned to advisory role while Bug Emory (son) assumes primary public-facing and operational leadership; Charlie maintains design review involvement but is no longer driving day-to-day operations

    high · Bug: 'he's definitely taken a step back out of the public eye per se... he's definitely still consulting on everything' and discussion of Christmas break design reviews

  • ?

    announcement: Spooky has multiple unannounced titles in development pipeline; Bug confirms more than two games being designed/developed simultaneously but refuses to specify number or themes

    medium · Bug: 'I probably shouldn't say, like, a specific number or anything, but we always have more than two for sure, like, being designed and developed' and 'I'm trying not to slip and say anything I'm not supposed to say'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Scooby-Doo topper features innovative interactive LCD screen with licensed video content and real-time gameplay integration; Spooky can push code updates to topper post-release

    high · Bug describes topper with 'screen behind there... inspired by opening clips... animated villain portraits... video mode with tons of tons of licensed footage... we can continue to update it and do new features with it in code'

  • ?

    product_concern: Halloween/Ultraman production surge (750 to 1,700 units in 12 months) created build quality issues; Spooky is now deliberately scaling back production post-Scooby-Doo to prioritize quality over quantity

    high · Bug: 'we went from 750 Rick and Mortys... to 1,700 Halloweens and Ultramans... But that created some build quality issues' and 'we've scaled that back so that we can keep a much closer eye on those things'

  • ?

    business_signal: Spooky is deliberately maintaining collector's edition toppers as standard feature going forward; not reducing value proposition of premium tiers despite scaling back overall production

    medium · Bug: 'our collector's edition is always going to come with a topper. And that's not something we're going to take away in the future' and separate announcement of optional Scooby topper add-on

    • 3:07
    All right, friends, get into the interview. Come on, we've got to get this going. All right. Mr. Bug, we are going to rapid-fire you some topics. Give us a few quick thoughts on each one and a grade, if you could, for Spooky for the year of 2023. So we'll throw a topic and then you say, oh give us a B plus on that and then tell us why you give that if it's something you think you could do better on say if you could do better on this maybe we didn't try as hard on that or whatever I'm not saying you didn't try hard on anything I'm just saying that's how it goes you say what you want, you fill in the blanks you know that episode of the Simpsons where they hook Homer up to the lie detector test and she explains how the lie detector test works to him and at the end of it she goes do you understand and Homer goes yes and then it blows up in front of him that's where we're at I love it anyway as far as theme and your selection of IPs you've done a lot of themes twice now Halloween Ultraman TCM with Looney Tunes I imagine that's a lot of work to prepare for two completely different rule sets and codes assets art sculpts etc all for one reveal but on the plus side you've now likely doubled the potential market for the game what are the pros and cons of that approach and do you plan to do that moving forward? Yeah, so the pros and cons with how we went ahead and did the Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacre dual theme. So we learned a lot from the experience of doing Halloween and Ultraman together. I mean, we learned every way up and down how you can do it wrong, right, somewhere in the middle. So with Looney Tunes, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, first and foremost, we knew we had to have two development teams on the code side of things on the games. So it would be kind of pointless if the layouts weren't the same to release those two themes together at the same time. So same layout, we designed the game to be both of those layouts together, of course, and then yeah, completely different programmers for each game. We have Ben Heck on Texas Chainsaw Massacre, we have Eric Prepke on Looney Tunes, completely different rule sets, completely different art, animators, sound effects, music, everything completely separate in the games, even down to the inserts on the playfield being different. We knew this would be super important to differentiate the two games because I feel that was something I didn't like as much with Halloween and Ultraman was that the modes, although the assets were different, a lot of the modes were the same. I wanted to really show how much you can change a game just through the code and the rules. The differences in the mode styles of Texas Chainsaw Massacre to Looney Tunes is just insane. It makes you... If you put the two games in a location and put them on the opposite ends of the room, most people would probably go through that location playing the games and not realize or forget that they're playing the same layout between the two games. What was it that made you start doing, you know, basically the same layout with different themes in the first place? The first time around, with Halloween and Ultraman, we wanted to give the option of something that families can have in their home and something that, like, the hardcore horror guys or people who don't have to per se worry about, like, younger kids being in the house playing the games and whatnot could enjoy as well. You know, there's not a whole lot of adult-themed, like, hardcore horror pinball machines out there. And, yeah, there could be an argument that, like, Halloween's really not that graphic or scary, or, like, not scary, that graphic or gory of a movie, so, like, you could kind of get away with that being in the house. But, like, Texas Chainsaw and Looney Tunes is a whole different thing. Like, Texas Chainsaw is a, what would be the best way to put it, it's a grimy, severe... There's blood splatter all over the yard. There's a chainsaw. We pulled zero punches and turned up all the graphicness to 11 on Texas Chainsaw Massacre. So we really did need a counterpart to go with that and for families to have in their home. Because we know not everybody can put a Texas Chainsaw Massacre in their house. And Looney Tunes is very obviously not that. It's very family orientated. It's one of the longest running cartoons in history. It's probably the most recognizable cartoon in history up there with Mickey Mouse. So that's definitely the reason we went with the dual theme, is to hit both of those markets kind of at the same time so nobody feels left out. With Scooby-Doo, I still feel like that hits all of the boxes, that that's a theme for absolutely everybody. Even though it is technically a kid's show, everybody grew up watching it and loving it, and as an adult still enjoys Scooby-Doo, so it checked all the boxes for us. It was family-friendly. It was still spooky. Everybody has nostalgia for it, so it checks all of those major boxes for when you're selecting a theme for your game. And if you have all those same boxes in play now, between Texas Chainsaw and Looney Tunes, we're hitting all of them. Is it challenging to take something like Texas Chainsaw Massacre and make it such a radically different theme? Well, you've got Texas Chainsaw Massacre. You've got the same layout, but with rules and assets and everything, Is that a big challenge to change it into something that is more family-friendly? Or, you know, I guess that's what I'm getting at here. Oh, yeah. No, so, like, I'm not saying that in the sense of, like, we chose Texas Chainsaw Massacre first and then slapped on Looney Tunes later. Like, we went into it saying we're going to do another dual theme. We're going to pick an adult theme and a family theme. And these were the two themes that we selected at that time. I mean, we signed Looney Tunes back when we got Scooby-Doo. So we knew we were going to be getting to a Looney Tunes theme, and we wanted to do another dual theme of horror and family-friendly, but we wanted to lean into it a lot more than we did on the previous round. A lot of people say that, like, oh, it was obvious that Texas Chainsaw Massacre is what this game was designed as because it makes sense to have a meat grinder where the rocket doesn't make as much sense. So a lot of people are implying that you designed a game for Texas Chainsaw Massacre and then made it work for Looney Tunes, but that's not true. you're saying you built the game from the ground up after you had both licenses. Yeah, when we were designing the layout, we had both themes in mind the entire time, whole way through of all of the development, because we knew people were going to say that, and that would be some people's concern. They don't want to get the theme that they feel was less catered to on the design phase or the code phase. No, we wanted to make sure everybody felt like they got the 100% attention that they deserve on their game. Rumor dispelled.
    9:34
    Pinball seems like such a difficult thing to do even one title on, right? Yeah. But just how do you do it simultaneously for both? I know you had different people on different teams working on the games, but it just seems like such a monumental task to do two games at once. It is. I mean, how did you do it? I mean, was it just constant work? I mean, you've done periods of time where you've done just one game, and then you've had periods of time where you've done two at once. So, you know, what differences in terms of your process are there? Yeah, I mean, it's insanely hard. It's always, even having two completely different development teams that are fully dedicated to their specific games the whole way through, it's still insanely hard because at the end of the day, you're launching two titles at the same time. Best answer I have for that is we're all really young and crazy and just trying our absolute hardest every single day. I mean, we're not joking when we say we're at it seven days a week. We're always trying to engage with everybody, get an idea of how people are thinking and feeling, really trying to take care of our customers and give them what they want. And we put our heart and souls into it. We really do. That being said, earlier you asked if we'd ever do a dual theme again. I'll probably say the same thing I said last time, which is hell no. Because it's so freaking hard. And by the time we get it out, we're always like, God. Oh man, that was rough. But I mean, again, like after we did it with Halloween Ultraman, a few months later, we were all like, okay, yeah, that made sense. Like that was the right move. We should probably do that again. But right now, no plans for it. But you know, that can always change. And I would guess it would change based on your theme selection. So if you have a very gritty, very like non-family friendly theme that you really want to make, that would be the time when that door might open again, would be my guess. Yeah, I mean, pinball is always adapting. It's always changing. I mean, what the best thing for your company is this week might not be next week. So you just have to be really ready to pivot at any time with what your plans are. There might be a future down the road where we do just stick to the one hardcore horror thing and not do a dual theme with it and give that a go. Right now, like I said, we have many titles in the works. I think all of them are really kick-ass. I think people are going to love them. Franchi's nodding his head yes.
    11:59
    I swear, of all the pinball manufacturers we've interviewed in this whole session, you are involved in every one of them, Franchi. Yeah, for the most part.
    12:08
    You guys have always been amazing at something that a lot of other companies struggle with, and that's building hype for your new games. This time around, you sent random swag and game parts to content creators. for them to live stream and talk about who's behind these awesome marketing moves. Usually Spooky Luke and myself are behind most all of the weird operations and ideas that you're seeing behind the marketing side of things with Spooky. Luke has an insane amount of good ideas when it comes to how to engage with people. I mean, his primary thing he does is keep an eye on what the customers are enjoying and saying and thinking in the community. And we're always scheming. We're always just trying weird things. And the other thing is that we're both just crazy enough to try things like that, because we don't always want to play it safe. We like a little bit of spice. We don't want to do the same thing over and over every single game launch. There's always really cool ways that you can get people excited about a product, and it helps that we're excited about what we're doing. I mean, this is everything for us. This is all we're focused on 100% of the time. So Spooky Luke and I were always scheming up to crazy shenanigans. I mean, in his game design office today, we were already looking at stuff, trying to figure out what we were going to do for the next one. Very cool. Well, to kind of stick the script a little bit, how would you rate your theme and IP selection, and then your consumer reaction to the IP selection over 2023? Now, Franchi told me not to give myself an A plus on everything, but I'm telling you, Unless you deserve it. After the next five years are over, people are going to look back and say, wow, Spooky Pinball literally just did the greatest run of themes in history of this hobby. Wow. So I'm solid A-plus all the way through. Sorry, Chris. I love it. I mean, you're all the same to the teacher. What we've done coming to Rick and Morty, to Halloween, onto Texas Chainsaw and Looney Tunes. I'm trying not to slip and say anything I'm not supposed to say. I'm telling you, after the next five years are up, people are going to be like, yeah, no, there's no question. Spooky gets the best themes in the industry. I've seen into the crystal ball, and I am pleased.
    14:21
    So, Bug, how many themes, I mean, obviously you're not going to tell us what they are, but how many themes moving forward have you already locked down? I probably shouldn't say, like, a specific number or anything, but we always have more than two for sure, like, being designed and developed. So somewhere between one and 23. Yeah. take a number so as far as 2023 goes for spooky pinball how would you grade the game sales for spooky uh it was our biggest year yet with uh scooby-doo coming out at the tail end there so like here's the thing is what 20 games came out last year and scooby-doo was the first up to bat in that whole spiel like right before march hit and we got four or five games like all in a row it felt like every single week we were getting a new company and a new game uh scooby was right up in front of all that. So sales-wise, we had literally our best year ever. Absolutely phenomenal. And in general, every year at Spooky has just been the biggest year yet. For 10 years, we've had very solid, steady growth. And I'm really excited to hit this show season in 2024 and bring all the different games that we're going to be bringing. I mean, we just posted our production line photo a few weeks ago, and we had four different titles on our production line all at once. So yeah, absolutely phenomenal year for game sales and production. It's funny you say for 10 years you've had growth, but at the same time I liken that to you because we've watched you grow up for the past 10 years.
    15:47
    He's my little boy. I've known him since he was this tall. Well, let's speak to that because I assume that Charlie is still working at Spooky behind the scenes. How would you describe your position and then his involvement in the company at this point? Right, so yeah, I mean, it's no secret that dad's definitely kind of taken a step back out of the public eye per se he's not all over everything the way he was for the whole start of and building of of the company and everything and and he's still around did i call him charlie man that sounded weird no he's too good yeah yeah sound like bart calling him homer anyway more simpsons references tonight uh no he's definitely still consulting on everything he always has his eyes on everything that we're up to but he's definitely been taking a step back and letting us run with it and carry it on. Because, I mean, the truth of the matter is, Dad never wanted to grow a company into doing thousands of units every year. He was cool doing 300, 400 units of Rob Zombie and selling it to mostly friends and other people who just happened to be fans of that particular theme or genre. So he's loved watching us run with it and grow it bigger than what he originally had planned for. That's awesome, and it's good that you can always fall back on his expertise, because I know he built this from the ground up, and he can watch you guys take it and run. Christmas break, Spooky Luke and I were in the game development office every single day, working on different titles and projects and whatnot, and we called him in almost every single day to come look at certain things and get his opinion and feedback on stuff, because when you're as lost in the world of what you're doing as Spooky Luke and I have gotten, you need some outside eyes to look at what you're doing and be like, yeah, you guys are crazy. That sucks. Or, I don't know, that's just really original and cool. Good job. Right. Well, you know, I got to think, when Bug came in and kind of assumed the main role and Charlie was just gone, like just poof, and Bug's always talking about, you know, being out in the middle of nowhere, I think there's a mound of dirt out behind that building. Oh, my God. We haven't actually seen Charlie or heard his voice. He was on the stream recently, I think. I think he showed up. Whenever I stream a game at his house, he usually can't help himself but to come on camera. He still likes to get a taste of it. Yeah, he did because I remember he scared you. You were about to say something. He said something like, go on!
    18:15
    I didn't know you were down here. You're right. I forgot about that. I turned over and he was just standing over there. His basement is so dark and creepy. He's literally got, like, skeletons on the ceiling. And I just, like, looked over, and he was down there. I was like, oh, shit.
    18:27
    Your family is all in on that spooky stuff. I'm in town. We commit to it. It's no secret. Dad's house is crazy. I live in a 100-year-old funeral home. It's wild over here. You're like the male Elvira's over there.
    18:43
    You talked about game production a little bit. You said you had four games on the line. And it seems like every year you guys get a little bit faster with every release. So how long do you expect it to take to complete your run of Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacre, would you guess? Yeah, so we always allot for a total of 18 months for a build. So we never let a build take longer than 18 months. And to this day, we've never even let one take that long. We've always gotten it done sooner than then. So the thing is, is with our production line, we have to keep it going at all times. We don't want to show up and lay off every single employee who's making games and then tell them, yeah, two months from now, come back when our next game's out and we'll start building again. So we have to spread it out evenly throughout the year. So we'll be building Looney Tunes TCM throughout all of 2024. We still have Scooby-Doos to get through. The last of the TNAs are coming off the line in this upcoming week or so here right now as they're going through their QC checks. I should say also, though, that with our growth every single year, yes, we have always gotten faster at our production. But when we hit Scooby-Doo, we actually did scale it back a little bit more to focus on build quality and quality control in general. Because Halloween Ultraman, it got so big so fast. I mean, we went from 750 Rick and Mortys to spread over 12 months of work to 1,700 Halloweens and Ultramans to spread over 12 months of work, which was just this insane, stupid amount of growth to try and do in that time period. So, I mean, we were trying everything we could to make sure we could build these games in a reasonable time and get them into people's hands because nobody wants to wait that long for their game. But that created some build quality issues. So we've scaled that back so that we can keep a much closer eye on those things. And it's a huge and very important focus to us going forward that we don't focus so much on just how many games can we get out the door. It's how many fantastic games can we get out the door. And if that means you have to build less a week, that's fine as long as they're good going out. Yeah. No, that's a good thing to hear because I know a lot of people have talked about how spooky the games are so amazing they just have to dial them in a little bit when they get them. So if you guys are doing that at the factory, that just takes that away from receiving that game when they get it. Absolutely. We focus on that stuff every single day. We hear every single person that says that. We read every comment online. We really do. And for a solid two years now, every single week, we keep looking at how we can build upon our QC more, how we can add more steps to it, how we can add more checks, how to make it more reliable. In our design phase, too, we look at just making sure that we can make everything as robust as possible. because the thing is, is we don't do super orthodox layouts. We take chances. And when you take chances and you're putting something out there in the world of pinball that hasn't been tested for 30 years, the way a lot of products in this hobby are, you're opening yourself up for a lot of risk. So you have to really, really be careful when you're doing that. And that's something we've considered in our designs very much. We never want to break away from doing unique unorthodox designs, but we just want to make sure they're as robust as possible. That being said, what do you think is your biggest challenge in 2023? Oh, man, 2023, biggest challenge. There's a lot of answers to that question.
    22:00
    There's never a day that it feels totally easy. I mean, yeah. Biggest challenge, working with Franchi.
    22:11
    He calls all the time. Answering Franchi at 9.30 at night. No. Biggest challenge of 2023. Man, that is a really tough question. What's the biggest success for you in 2023? What can we grant you?
    22:28
    I didn't know these were the two questions that were going to kill me tonight. So biggest success, I would say, is kind of a combination of three things. The first one being getting Scooby-Doo onto the production line and out the door, selling out the last of the TNA remakes, because we'd never been selling two titles at the same time before. So that was pretty crazy for us. And then getting the Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacre dual theme out all in one year. The combination of those things is definitely our biggest success. And Bugs Screamin' stream.
    23:08
    You want to hype that and just kind of tell people what that is? Although I'm sure most people listening already know. Yeah, so I started doing live streams probably in like June or July or so. I do them every week. I do them at 7 p.m. Central Time on Thursdays. It's a really good way for me to show off new code updates when we have them out, whether that's like Halloween, Ultraman, Scooby-Doo. Just recently I showed off the topper because we released our Scooby-Doo topper. So I did a whole live stream going over the gameplay and content with that. But then also I love going back and playing our old games that maybe have never had live streams since they even first came out, like Domino's Pizza. And I like hanging out with people, just answering questions. I like to do the Q&A session at the end of it. I like doing giveaways. I like getting people merch. And it's just a cool place to hang out. I love it. It fills the void of where the podcast used to kind of be for us because the podcast was a huge part of us for, I mean, a solid, like, well, the podcast went for 10 years. I think it lasted for eight years of Spooky Pinball being in business before we said, yeah, we don't have time for this anymore. So the other point of the Screamin' Stream is to fill the void of that, a place for us to get some more content out there and interact with everybody. And it's nothing official yet, but we have some new things coming out that aren't even related to me with the Screamin' Stream. It'll be more gameplay videos, but it doesn't even feature me. So we have some pretty cool things coming. I absolutely love it. Everything. I mean, everything that you guys do at Spooky Pinball has got a spooky theme to the title or there's something involved in it. It's all across the board. I love it. That's what growing up with Adam's Family and Tales from the Crypt and Munsters does to a person's brain. I think you're selling your giveaway short because what are you giving away next week? Oh, yeah. So right now we are giving away a Scooby-Doo topper. So we just announced that cool new topper, the bookcase topper, and we're running a contest right now. I've got the first three people entered in for the contest. Next week, I will get another three people. And then the week after that, we will be giving away live on air the topper. I'm literally going to put all the names in a hat, ruffle it up, and draw it live on air. And we're going to give away a Scooby-Doo topper. When I saw this topper, the bookcase slides open, and there's a screen behind there? Yeah, yeah. So there's a screen behind there. So it's kind of inspired by the opening clips of the show when the gang walks by, and that bookcase slides over and the villain creeps his head out. It's inspired directly off of that. And, yeah, there's an LCD screen in there. We included a video mode with it, tons and tons of licensed footage, all sorts of great things. The portraits that surround the bookcase are all the villains in the game, and they are interacting with the gameplay. It's really nice that we did this chopper because we can continue to update it and do new features with it in code. So it's very interactive with what's going on in the game. You've got that mode where you fling Scooby Snacks and try to feed Scooby as he's running back and forth with hitting the action button. Yeah, we wanted to include the iconic hallway chase scene. Everybody knows Scooby-Doo hallway chase scene where everybody's running each which direction. So we have a video mode of that where Scooby's running through the hallways away from Elias Kingston, and you're throwing him Scooby Snacks while he's doing it. And then base gameplay, like you're shooting shots, it also has the characters running across there. It's a really cool topper. It was a ton of work. I'm really happy that people liked it as much as they did. I mean, it's always scary putting out any product because you might spend months working on it and invest a lot of money into it, and you put it out there, and everyone's like, it sucks. That never happens in general. I really liked it. I'm not going to say it means the world to us because Frenchy told me not.
    26:53
    It does mean the world to us. It is also very cool, though, that you guys shipped the machine with a topper, and this is just an add-on. Like, you don't have to necessarily buy this. You already have given people a topper. That is something unique to Spooky that is really appreciated, I think, amongst people who are buying your products. Yeah, our collector's edition is always going to come with a topper. And that's not something we're going to take away in the future. I didn't see too many people worried that we would going forward. But, no, yeah, our collector's editions are still going to be coming with toppers. Very cool. Nice. What are you most looking forward to in 2024 with Spooky Pinball? The shows. I can't wait to get to the shows. I don't know what it is this year, but I'm just, I'm so antsy. I can't wait to get out there. I can't wait to bring TCM and Looney Tunes. I think I'm excited for people to play those games the most. I've been, I'm the most excited about people playing these two because it's, it's just our best shooter. And I think people are really going to take to it. Cause like I said, we've done a lot of weird unorthodox layouts, like triple upper play fields in Halloween where people are, like, you see them at the shows, they're kind of trying to get used to it, like, this is different. It's good, but it's definitely different. I've got to figure it out. Looney Tunes TCM, the shots are just such a maze in between each other, but they all flow so good everywhere across the game, and it's got our best mechanisms that we've ever done, so I'm really, really excited for people to start playing those. Cool. I'm excited just listening to you, so I can't wait to go out there and try them myself. So what do you feel in 2023 was your greatest innovation? Biggest innovation for sure is, I think, perfecting the dual theme release. We're still the only company out there that offers this. I mean, yes, Stern did it. I should say Stern did it back in the day with Family Guy and Shrek. But as of the last, like, 20 years, we're the only company doing this. And we definitely worked out all the kinks, and I think we've really nailed how to do a dual theme launch. So I would say that's for sure our biggest innovation. Just in time to stop doing it. I don't want to do it again.
    28:56
    I honestly can't imagine how much work that was, but you guys really did seem to make it look easy anyway. So, you know, for that, congratulations. You guys are good. Insanely talented people. I mean, Ben Heck is a mad genius.
    29:12
    He's like a real-life Rick from Rick and Morty. And Eric Depke is obviously, he's got some of the best code we've ever played on Riddles. So having those two behind those games is a huge driving factor. And then having the help of a certain artist with Texas Chainsaw Massacre that really takes the life. Let's clear that up because I keep on hearing people say that I did the artwork for that game. I did not. I can't say the gentleman's name because I don't know it, but if you tell me who started that game what's his name? Terry Wolfinger. Okay. He did the back glass, the sides of the back box, the sides of the cabinet, the front of the cabinet, the majority of the play field, probably I'm going to say 90%, and about 80% and about half the plastics. I came in just as an assist at the end, and I did a little bit of work on the play field. I did half the plastics, and I did like that apron thing. That's like it. All the details, all the stickers, too. Yeah, okay. All of the on-screen. well yeah the on screen graphics people don't think of that when they talk about artwork packages they don't include that so just to clear the air yeah I do not take credit for that in fact I told you I said don't put my name on this because I feel that I'm very modest he's very modest I don't want to take credit away from the guy who did most of the work and there's a lot of work you've got 5% in there that's still worth noting I just get a paycheck that's good he brought the playfield to pinball is the thing. What we had with the playfield was a great foundation, but the more we sat with it and looked at it, we were like this just isn't quite a pinball art layout. It's such a specific thing. Cabinets are blank canvases. You can do them in a very traditional horror oil painting style. When you get to the playfield, that's a whole different world. It's a whole different art style. Franchi really brought that to life. Like I said, all of the on-screen assets as well, which are animated to perfection by Mr. Matt Montgomery.
    31:16
    But to the original point, it's not possible without working with such amazing people. And we have amazing, amazing people on these teams. I mean, Luke Peters is a phenomenal code assistant and rules advisor. Like I said, animations-wise, we had Jeff Dixon from Deep Root fame on Looney Tunes in Brandy. Redeeming himself. by crushing the art in the entire Looney Tunes package over there as well as the on-screen and everything. We work with some class acts, and what we do is not possible without working with such top people. That's a great answer and true. I mean, obviously you have some amazing talent over there because you guys have been able to continually pump out great licenses, great games every year. Yeah, it's not possible without these people. They make it happen. I got to say, I love about your business is that it's family owned, you know, family's doing it. You're coming out with great things, even all the way back to America's Most Haunted. I thought that game was fantastic. And that's what kicked you guys off into the business. And now you've just grown and grown and grown. And it's, you know, and you yourself have grown and grown and grown. And it's just great to see that it's still all family owned. And you guys are just kicking ass. I love it. Yeah, that's the best thing is that, you know, knock on wood. You guys have not missed a step. No, absolutely not. And the way you've grown, you've not made any mistakes. In dealing with you guys, it's like all these people are so young, and it's so impressive. I not being an ageist or anything or saying that you young and you should be stupid It just impressive to see you guys light years ahead of companies that you know have all these like you know old hands that you know I've been in pinball for 35 years, you know, and you guys are just like, see you later, you know. Like the Looney Tunes, the little hairpins and stuff spinning, you know, in front of these old guys that are like, well, what'd I miss? Well, Spooky's way up there now.
    33:09
    It's very impressive. Another thing, too, is, and I don't know if anybody's told you this, probably not, but I bet a lot of people have noticed, the way you hold yourself in the pinball public is very impressive because everybody takes shots. And you don't even, it's like, you're like bulletproof. Nothing bugs you. You're always polite. You never lose your shit. And just be like, fuck off.
    33:36
    I want it. Texas Saints on Master Chris Floyd. went and fucking got it. If you don't like it, don't buy it. You know, you're just like, oh, we hate that game. Well, thank you for considering it.
    33:49
    I'm going to steal that. That's a great one. Yeah, I mean, it's just, I'm really impressed, you know, working with you guys. I've found this stuff out, you know, by being a little bit more on the inside and all that. And I really enjoy working with you guys. And I think, you know, everybody there is not only extremely talented at what they do, but they're just generally delightful, polite people to interact with. Great people. So my hat's off to you. And really, I mean, your dad's still there, but you've had to grow up a lot to get this company to where it is, and I just think everyone's just done an outstanding job. Well, I don't know how to reply to all of that.
    34:29
    That was like every nice word ever all combined into a solid two-minute segment. Can I have some more work, please? No, I really can't. I think the best way to phrase it, Chris, is it really means the world to us.
    34:45
    Yes, dude. You came full circle with that, which I really appreciate. Yes. That's the way it's going to be. This whole show has been pile on Frankie.
    34:57
    Every interview. So good. So fantastic. No, really, thank you guys. We do appreciate it a lot. I mean, we take everything to heart. We do take it all personally. I mean, we cry off camera. I was just going to say, people can't see this because it's an audio show, but Bug's crying right now. It's at their moment. Well, thank you so much, Bug, for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. We obviously are in your corner, and we really love what Spooky has done and what you guys are continuing to do in the future. We can't wait to see. So thanks again for coming on, and good luck, man, moving forward with everything. No, I really appreciate it, guys. Thank you for having me on. It's good to be back on this show. Heck, yeah. Things I did not have on my bingo card for 2020.
    35:41
    Being spooky pinball, you have to adopt the Hellraiser line, we have such sights to show you. It's such a hard thing to deal with sometimes because I always hate when companies or brands or whoever is saying, our next thing is the best. It drives me crazy because it's usually bullshit.
    36:04
    It drives me nuts when they do that. But, like, our next stuff is always the best. Like, I can't wait to show everybody what we're working on and how much better everything we're doing is getting. Like, I just can't wait to share it with everyone. I'm an incredibly impatient person. It drives me crazy that it literally takes years to get to. But, yeah, I mean, be sure to keep an eye out for us. Like, we have some really awesome things planned. And, like I said, I think after five years, people are going to look back at Spooky in a very different way. I think they're already looking at you in a different way. because from where you started to where you are now, it's light years apart, and I think it's fantastic. He's been there the whole time. He doesn't realize it. He doesn't see it, but he's already.
    36:46
    It's not enough. We're not done yet, though. It's never felt like we're done yet, so we're going to keep at it. We're going to keep doing our best. It's you and your family's passion for pinball that is keeping this hobby alive. Not the only one, but you've got a big part in it. We love being a part of it. I love that people even pay attention to us. It's cool. Like, I got a photo after the most recent Screamin' stream I did of a family of legit, like, six that was watching us on the TV. And I was just like, that's so crazy to me that in a world where there's Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones, everyone was like, let's sit down and watch. Like, that's really crazy. Well, you know, it means the world to you, you know. It means the world. Well, thank you so much, man. It means the world to us that you came on our show. We were able to share some of Spooky's 2023 info, and the future holds good things. I can't wait. I mean, you hyped us up. And hopefully the rest of our listeners too, what's coming in the future from Spooky. Play mechanics.
    37:54
    Josh Sharp was born into pinball royalty as Roger Sharp's son, and he has certainly carried on the legacy. He's a president of the IFPA, overseeing all the competitive pinball scene. He's the CFO of a massive arcade game business, Raw Thrills, and in all of his free time, he dabbles in pinball game creation, recently doing rules redesign for the Cactus Canyon remake, and was the lead on Game Rules for one of the most exciting games of 2023, Pulp Fiction. Today, we're going to focus on his time working on that game, and we'll throw a few other questions his way as well. Thanks for coming on, and welcome to the show, Josh Sharp. You've got to think about this like a report card. Like, the first thing we have is theme slash IP selection. Obviously, there's only one game to talk about. So this year, your theme was Pulp Fiction. How do you feel about that overall in terms of if you could have chosen any IP, where does this rank amongst the list that you would come up with? I mean, if I could, if anybody else in the design team could, I mean, I think everyone has sort of their different interests. I will say from like an objective standpoint of a theme that works for the existing pinball demographic, certainly the purchasing demographic, it was a home run theme for that demographic. I don't think anybody on the team denied, you know, the power of what that license and the songs that accompanied the movie, just the kind of package that you were able to make with it made for creating pinball moments much easier than some other themes, I would imagine. To quickly follow up on that, when you are sitting down discussing, hey, we're making a game, we need to come up with an IP or a theme.
    39:30
    Our story is so not that, right? I think I still follow along our summer camp game story. Didn't he come to you and ask you to make this game? Wasn't that kind of how this all came about? He came and asked us to make a game, and we pitched them a video game, because we're a video game company. And he said, no, I want a pinball game. And George went and asked Mark Ritchie, like, do you want to make a pinball game? And he's like, yeah, I always want to make a pinball game. I mean, I've been here 20 years, and I love it. It's great. But the answer to it, I feel like it's, you know, I'd buy a Keith Allen game about Golden Girls. Mark Ritchie would design a game about Golden Girls. He was giving the opportunity. I would love that. It hasn't been good forever. So, you know, were we actively looking to make a pinball machine? Absolutely not. So it was sort of circumstance that this opportunity presented itself to our company, and we have the talent to be able to pull something like this off and the interest to do it and obviously the time to do it since it started seven years ago, but yes. I don't think you can ask for a stronger license to enter the market with. In a sea which is getting pretty flooded, it's almost like the water around the Titanic with all these companies popping up everywhere. To get a license like that to enter the marketplaces was just fantastic. I totally agree. I think when it comes to the video side, we're more stern pinball on the video side. So the access we have to licenses are of equal level of power and interest from the other side of these big studios coming to us for video stuff. So they obviously knew we were in the space of gaming to have reached out to us in the first place, but obviously had no idea we were not doing pinball when they asked. I mean, Josh, that's a huge power to have, like to have the pedigree of making such amazing video games and having those established relationships with these big licenses. I mean, if you wanted to more heavily delve into the pinball scene, you would be a player because you would have access to licenses that a lot of people might not necessarily be able to get. Yeah, but then we'd be competing more with our brothers and sisters and starting to like them too much. And is that something you would ever want to do? Is that a raw thrills thing that you guys are like, hey, we've done it? Really, I think, really, I don't know if this game would have even gotten done if it wasn't for COVID. Like, the pinball business boomed during COVID. Like, our business literally went to zero. So we not only stopped selling anything new, but had to, like, buy back distributor inventory because they weren't selling anything. And we wanted to make sure if these distributors were going to go bankrupt that they didn't have our games in their inventory that, like, were going to be ripped away from us. So, you know, during the lull period is when Pulp really got most of the meat and potatoes of the game done. But we are fortunate now that 2022 was Raw Thrills' best year ever, and 2023 was our third best year ever. We were down a bit from last year. There's opportunity cost, right? We have a staff of people, and the money that we're able to generate for our shareholders, there's just way too much of it in video right now. and to be able to pull people off and have pinball become a bigger, important thing to the enterprise. It isn't in the cards right now, maybe someday, but I hope not, because the video game stuff is pretty awesome in and of itself. That's impressive for a guy who is so deeply into pinball to say that you wouldn't want more of that. You know, is it one of those things where, like, if it becomes your job, something changes with it? You've actually asked my brother. Has his affinity for pinball changed at all? He literally has to work in it every day. I don't know. I've been able to do the fun part of it, and we've been able to do it at a pace that's just not leisurely is the wrong word because it sounds like we're not taking it seriously, but we've been able to take so much time to craft this thing to make it. It's like you get 80% of the way there, and it's usually not worth pounding the remaining 20% because it takes you just as long. And for us, we're just like, every little percent we can just play and keep whittling away that wood until it's like so precise. You know, man, and you can tell. I mean, that game, it's the difference between playing a game on a PlayStation that was made by kind of an unknown company and then playing a god of war. You know, it's like the level of polish and the level of just, you can see it. And you guys clearly have spent that time to take it from an A to an A+. And you can definitely tell. And the reaction, I think, amongst the pinball enthusiasts was nothing but positive when this game came out. I mean, there were a lot of questions about whether or not a single-level play field would work and whether or not the dots would work and just the old displays for the score and that sort of thing. No video screen, but you guys proved everyone, all the doubters, wrong. We were just as skeptical going in about, like, you know, I mean, there's a chance this thing goes nowhere because people like ramps on games. The end. And it's like, it happens. But for us, because it wasn't like a life or death business thing, you know, it's like, let's give it a shot. And if it sucks, it sucks. We'll move on and do something else, and we'll all have a fun game in our basement. Okay. Sounds good. I love it. And to see the reception, it was really heartwarming for everyone on the team to see just how much people liked it. We were really surprised. Well, that's funny because that's our next topic is a consumer reaction to your IP selection. which you basically pretty much just answered. Yeah, we touched on that. I mean, the reaction was amazing. The other thing we want to ask about was obviously a hot-button topic for you, and you probably can't even really speak to this because this isn't Raw Thrills, but game production and the schedule of actually creating these games has been something that people have been harping on. And I know CTC is taking the reins there, but how are things going with that? How would you say that that has gone in 2023? Is it as expected? Is it more than expected? Give it an F. that's honest we are just as frustrated as the people that are out there i think i was listening to don's podcast while i was flying today and it was like he had expected to get his pulp fiction six months ago and i'm like six months ago they weren't supposed to start building until two months ago and so like the timeline is weird because we were put in a position where we had to announce earlier than we wanted to based on some contract stuff. But more importantly, I think, thinking about it more, even without the contract stuff, CGC really believes in field testing games, and they really don't believe in having their customers be guinea pigs. So back in the day, you put a game in a hidden location that nobody would know about because there wasn't the Internet or whatever, and these days you can't do that. You can't do that within five minutes. Someone will find something. So at that point, you kind of have to announce it or else you're leaving the world to fill in the blanks with whatever they want. So CGC's strategy of getting a healthy amount of field tests and show tests to make sure the design is solid and trying to help pull out any issues, I think leads to this longer introductory period, if you want to say, were like, man, this company had 700 games shipping the day after. And it's like, that's awesome for them, and maybe they were testing in various places and doing whatever. But I can tell you, I played the game all the time. But even me playing in my basement every day, you know, is not a lick of testing compared to, like, a weekend at Texas or three months at a bar in Chicago where it's outside at night. And the game is so much better for that time. the lack of appreciation of the public waiting on a game that they're excited about, which is awesome, good for them that they're very excited to get something. It is incredibly frustrating to be sitting there and waiting for something that is not coming. And even with what the schedule was supposed to be, we ended up kind of waiting for Cactus to finish its current run before Pulp. CGC was building the second line, and originally they were going to build the second line for Pulp. And at some point from Doug's side, it made more sense for them to mess around with this second line for their own shit. And that's the line that works well with the labor force that they have that works well and builds the quality level of games that everyone has appreciated. That when they do eventually receive a Chicago Gaming product, they're usually pretty satisfied with it. So the Cactus run recently ended. I have seen a picture of Pulp Fiction on the line. So we are getting close. But even with that, there will be a lot of Pulp Fictions built this year, I believe. Yes. Thousands, plural, I believe, will be built this year. And, you know, when your order is in with your dealer, please stop texting me. I don't know where your order is. Like, it's going to come when it's going to come. And, you know, the way I've looked at it is, and I hope, it's the, I mean, for a lot of the market, it's games come in, games go out. For me, this game is going to be something, when I get a production one, It's going to be a game that I know I'm going to have for 30 years. And if it means I have it for 29 instead of 30, but the quality is going to just be that Chicago gaming exquisite level of quality, I'll take the 29. I think most people know that they're going to wait for a CGC game, but when they get it, it will be bulletproof. And there's something to be said for that. But I can certainly sympathize with the frustration. And our meetings with them, they haven't seen a deadline. they can't blow by. Like, it's just going to stop inside the school zone. The challenge. Dude, fucking kindergartners walking across like they moved. It's fine. Just blow it. So, assuming that this is probably not your last foray into pinball, just basically based on what you're saying there, your relationship with CGC is going to be intact in the future with future games? I mean, I can't confirm or deny if we're working on anything else after Pulp Fiction and the pinball space. Right. But if you do... I do know that we also, we do games with ICE in the video space, video redemption space. We're competitors with ICE. We do games with ICE. We're competitors with Namco. We do games with Namco. I think we are always open to, and Stern knows this, we've had conversations with them. I've had talks with Mr. Gomez. Mr. Petro's had talks with Mr. Gomez. If there's something that they think we at Rothwell's Plane Mechanics could do for them to help their business and help our business, we're always listening to things. If Doug Duva wants to get back on the rodeo and present to us something that we can do to help his business help our business, we're answering that phone call as well. We're not exclusive with anyone. We're willing to dance with anyone that puts a proposal in front of us that gets us excited. To that end, why has there never been a Raw Thrills kick-ass pinball video mode that you could just incorporate into the pinball machine and have it be a Raw Thrills done video mode with the assets and like the, just like any. Why is that, George? Okay. The game is on the play field. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. No more Ms. Pac-Man's or the. Nah, man. You're not looking at when you're playing anyway. Keep your head down. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. It's not a Roth Realty video mode in the future, unfortunately. Nah. All right. So how about your biggest challenge this year in 2023 and your biggest success in 2023? I mean, you can take this however you want, whether it's pinball-related or otherwise. Yeah, we can stay on topic. But, Pulp, I was just picking up new code for M-Disc for Pulp, and I was grabbing it from George yesterday, and he was joking about how he has no idea how the games at Texas made it through so flawlessly for the whole weekend based on the number of plays that it had. He was about as, he's not a nervous person, but he was, like, scared shitless for the game to finally be out and be played by someone other than, like, me, him, and Mark. That was probably the highlight of the year was that, you know, the reception was way warmer than we thought it was going to be. And, you know, they never had to take the glass off to start fixing stuff because, oh, my God, this is what happens when you put the game in the real world for five minutes or whatever. That was definitely the highlight. And the low light is not getting any games out the door. There's no way to sugarcoat that, you know, regardless of the excuses. It's close to inexcusable. Is there any projection as to when box number one is heading out the door? It's already out, right? October was the... Our meeting was four and a half hours ago. It could have been today. I don't know. I mean, I know there's at least one out there because October was their deadline, and they had at least one inbox that they, I think, shipped in October, at least according to... Nothing ships enough. No. Okay. Those two ship. All right. So if nothing has shipped, there goes your Twippy eligibility. I know. From the pinball manufacturing and development side, I think I'm supposed to just talk about how our game is the greatest ever and we don't do anything wrong.
    53:03
    No, we didn't do anything. We shipped shit, Christian. Nothing. Zero. Nothing. We're editing all of this out. this is a pinball enthusiast podcast so no one is going to uh believe it if you say that you know you shipped a million games we all know we all know better so it's it's all honesty here which i appreciate we're turning the tables now though we're going to give you a chance to shine let's forget about the boxes that didn't go out greatest innovation for 2023 greatest innovation
    53:36
    I don't know. Specific to, like, pulp? Well, it would have to be, I think. Yeah, it would have to be. So Doug Duba was tasked with, when we knew we couldn't do a screen, and we knew it was going to have to be, like, segment displays, everything we've done, we're like, we waste so much time and effort trying to, you know, get things to, like, A-plus crazy level that he spent so much time trying to make the game look like that classic Bally 80s orange so specifically that like when he finally got there and was like super excited to show us and I remember taking like a picture of it the first time and like you know in those old games you take a picture because of the gas plasma like the score doesn't come up because it's never it was like it didn't come up and he's just like it is like on the nose and he's like you can't see it but just imagine it he was going to like nail that somebody was messaging me this week, actually, about why we didn't do... Our scoring can get higher because it does have modern rules in the game. And they didn't understand why we didn't do eight digits because couldn't we just do whatever we wanted? And it's like, part of what we wanted to do, the package of what we were presenting, it's almost more important what the game looks off than what it looks on. And there's... Like, those games in the 80s, you know, they had six digits or eventually seven. None of that had eight. It would look like an alien. So, you know, for us, I think that was probably the innovation of trying to capture such an old look and all of the nostalgia of that era, but with, like, modern technology, modern quality, modern ability for it to, like, last. I think that's the thing I'm most proud of on this game in terms of innovation. All right, Josh, so what are you most looking forward to in 2024 from a pinball and play mechanics slash rawthrill standpoint? People are super excited to get the game, and that's awesome. And however excited they are, we are more excited for them to get the game and experience the game. So for me, I think, you know, I'm fortunate with two out on test in Chicago, and Chicago being a decently sized city, you know, over the last, whatever, it's been on test for nine months now. Like, people coming in for business, for pleasure, or whatever, like a lot of people have had a chance to play it but there is a really large world out there of people that have still not gotten a chance to play it and i think you know for us our biggest fear was people never giving the game a chance at first blush we knew we have a bunch of game guys at work so like our thumb in the air you know is this fun meter is pretty good at our place and so we knew we had something that was pretty fucking fun but right we also didn't know if there was a market that would be willing to even, like, you know, it's a vegetable, kids, but it tastes really good. And it's like, not... Like, for the people that are willing to eat it, though, like, I feel like they will have a positive interaction with the game. So for us, we're most excited about people getting their games, being happier than they even could have imagined having gotten it, and then hopefully any enthusiast friends that they know, you know, the ability for even the first 500, 300, 200 games to get out there and for all of the friends of those people to be able to have their first taste in it. You know, we're really excited about that. That's cool. I imagine that you worrying about the barrier of entry of people actually being interested enough to try it, being obliterated by everyone saying, you know, I can't wait to play this, it looks amazing, must be a real nice, you know, relief to you guys. And then when people actually get their hands on it, all the feedback I've heard is positive. So that's awesome. Hopefully 2024 you guys will be able to see that and really, I don't know, just kind of lavishing the feedback, the good feedback. If they're presenting a profitable pinball studio to Eugene by the end of 2024, it would be a good place to be. Before this last question, I have to say, I feel that Christian, when he waves his hand around and he has the pen in his hand, he looks like a far more professional podcaster than I do. I'm a little jealous. Wait until you see me spin it. Oh, shit. I quit.
    57:50
    You're like one of those kids in class. I quit. Dude, in med school, this is all I did. I just sat there and zoned out when it was really boring. All right, one last question. This is the last of the group of questions we ask everybody, and then Fishing's got some tournament questions he's just got to ask. Here we go. If your office was on fire and you could only grab the contract for one license for an upcoming pin in 2024 or beyond, and the rest goes up in flames, which one would you pick? Like any license, a contract we have that the world doesn't know about because it's in my office? It was a trick question to try and fool you, but Christian is letting a goddamn cat out of the bag. Dude, Josh is the king of cannot confirm or deny. The contract I have in my office is Paul Fischer. If you would have accidentally said something, we most certainly wouldn't have broadcast it. it's sort of a joke question of course then he's like well no let me ask a few questions here not you already ruined it dude he's impenetrable like if anyone is not going to devolve secrets it's josh sharp once no can you tell us what that was my dad so he used to have this i mean i've been at this as a son of someone in licensing for a very long time so my dad on his home computer back, it might have been pre-internet, but he had this thing called the Roger Report, which was this monthly, weekly, I don't know, but something he would pass around to the different design teams periodically about, you know, movies, the pitches that were coming from the other side versus the pitches that maybe a design team was going to my dad and trying to go get. So, in that document that wasn't password protected because it was just a Word document on a desktop. But Zach and I could just go on the computer and, like, once we learned what that was, it had, like, current projects in development, the stuff that he was going after and for what designers, the stuff, it was just, like, it would be like a pin-side, like, nuclear bomb of candy. Pandora's box, baby. Pinball Pandora's box. You opened it. I mean, as you know, you're so many years ahead on the design cycle of trying to get these contracts. stuff and and uh i think i told someone once oh oh the one i should have had got in trouble that was one time did they leak it they no i mean it wasn't it wasn't crazy enough for it to be like there was no public forum back then but like yeah i heard from someone who had heard from someone that's like that sounds like that that came from that person that i told probably How often did you and Zach peek in on that document? You'd have to ask Zach, but I was definitely a monthly kind of guy.
    60:44
    I think when Mortal Kombat pinball made it down for some portion of a list, I was just like, oh my god, it's going to be so cool, and then it went nowhere. But at some point it had made it to a different subset of feeds or whatever way back in the day. So I'm impressed that that's the only thing you've ever let slip, considering that you've lived within, like, a freaking rumor mill for your entire life. And your dad probably was the same as you. He probably didn't speak about it. He didn't? Would be my guess. No, you know what? When you do it long enough, it becomes quite normal. It is not a big deal anymore. When did he find out that you were peeking at your, or has he ever? No, I'm sure he knows. I don't know if he ever caught me, like, on his computer doing it, but, like, at some point I had told him. Let's be honest. That's a Roger report at some point, like, you know, years later. Let's be honest for a moment, Josh. Has your father ever hit you? Yeah. The company wouldn't have. That was his goat. It sat next to the fireplace. Really? That sounds like a fraternity. Yeah? You got the paddle. Right. And now I know why you won't tell anyone anything, because you're afraid of the paddle. You'd be conditioned. He can pull it out. My dad had this shellacked paddle that said the Board of Education on it, It had such a gloss on it, man. When that made contact with your naked ass, whoo!
    62:04
    I guess. In fact, he kept it, like, kind of available in the family room. Like, I probably wasn't the greatest kid now looking back on it, but.
    62:13
    We can grab that paddle and beat our dads with it. Gotcha! All right, Josh, since you are the president of the IFPA, we have to at least touch on some competitive pinball stuff, even though Franchi will pull his hair out. Cut! Damn it. It drinks money in here. Boring. You were on our show previously. We talked about the death of Pinnberg. And now, just recently, we found out that Pinnberg is rising from the ashes. So what are your thoughts on that? And where do you see this going in the future? My thoughts are, when I found out the news and had to tell my wife, who was planning for a family trip to Hilton Head, that time frame, I had to wait for it. It's like, I always run into the, do I wait until she's already pissed at me about something else and just create a really shitty experience or do I wait until she's really happy with me knowing that I'm ruining the moment? You have some buffer there. I feel like I've done both and neither work well, but I'm super excited. For me, it's an instant. I had to go tell her we can't go that weekend. This is one of those things when we met when we were 20 years old. It was on the list. It wasn't even on the list when I was 20. But she knows the things that I believe are important enough in the competitive space to make the list. And she has asked me since having kids to make some sacrifices on what makes the list. And I have. And there are certain things that will not be removed from the list. And pinball is a permanent hall pass on the list. That's at the top of the pinball prenup is what you're saying. It's on it. It's on it for sure. pinball prenup.
    63:57
    It is part of our prenup. So what do you think about the future? Do you think this will build back up to where it used to be? I mean, where it used to be. Like, a thousand people and four hundred games? Probably not. But I've had enough conversations with those guys and sort of their roadmap of where they're going and I'm very excited where they're going and as I told them, like, extremely appreciative that they are taking things in logical steps of growth rather than because to them it's about like maintaining that quality player experience and it'd be so easy to just try to make it fit as many people as you can and sacrifice on the experience and i think they are doing it the right way so they will grow as they can grow and they will not sacrifice on the experience at the expense of that, and I think it is a beautiful thing. And I think the first big pinbird I played in was 170 people anyway, so I don't think when that year started, if anybody asked that team, like, you think you'll get to 1,000 players? They'd all just be laughing at you. So let's see where the world goes, and I trust this group to make the right call at every opportunity. I love it, man. Great answer. And thank you so much for coming on, man. We really appreciate your thoughts, your time. I know that you're pulled in a lot of directions these days, so thank you for spending a little time with us and giving us your thoughts on 2023 and beyond. My pleasure, gentlemen. Dutch Pinball. Very Jason has done what a lot of pinball startups could not, overcome setbacks and slowly build up to a successful business. The Big Lebowski pinball machine is considered one of the best machines made today, and a master class of integrating a license into a world under glass. With only one full-fledged pinball machine in their wheelhouse, Dutch has managed to become the company to watch, with many anxiously awaiting the next title. Today, we're lucky to have Barry with us to reflect on Dutch's year in 2023, and what's to come in 2024. Welcome to the show, Barry Dreesen of Dutch Pinball. Hey, Barry. All right, Barry. Thank you.
    66:23
    so Barry we're going to rapid fire some topics at you and just give us a few quick thoughts on each of them in regards to Dutch Pinball's year in 2023 okay so I know that it's been quite a while since you chose an IP and that you're actively producing so what do you think about your IP choice even though it wasn't really made in 2023 in the big Lebowski well I'm glad we took a classic movie for our first game because it took a while actually I saw on my calendar on 27th of December It was 10 years ago we took the first order. Wow. So, yeah, it's been a while. But, so, yeah, luckily we did Lebowski because it's an all-time classic, of course. And we chose it because it's basically one of my favorite movies. And it's funny, you know, it would translate well into a machine. And, well, obviously you did. So, you know. Preparature, man, is a beverage. So much quotes. I think we have like 600 or 700 quotes cut out of the movie, which you can hear randomly everywhere. I mean, even when I test games today, you know, after so many years, and I hear the quotes, I still laugh.
    67:30
    What's the beauty of that choice? If you get stuck for 10 years with something, it was a great choice because it's the IP that keeps giving, you know? It's not something that faded out for three years and, you know, you were screwed. So, yeah, it worked out perfectly. What was your reaction to the consumer's reaction to your selection of Big Lebowski? The first reaction on the game. overwhelming of course i remember that we went to i think we did first teaser at expo 2013 or 2014 and the year after that we had the games there i think three games and we put them on the show floor and of course we also did had them in our presidential suite and then in the western hotel and the former expo building it was very enjoyable to see everybody lining up to play the game and also, you know, there weren't that many big manufacturers then. I think Jersey Jack also just started and, of course, Stern was there. But also their reaction to the game was pretty impressive. At our parties in the presidential suite, we did it three nights and it started like 8 p.m. and I think each day was like 4 or 5 a.m. until we stopped. And we had everyone there, even Steve Ritchie and some of the coders. I don't know all the names, but Bowen Curran. He actually vacuumed the hotel room after the parties.
    68:55
    Very nice photo of that. Nice. It was overwhelming. I think we had the presidential suite with three games. Two were playable. And I think the presidential suite could fit like maybe 30, 40 people. And there were like 100 people.
    69:12
    Oh, jeez. Yeah. You said Steve Ritchie was there. Did he say anything about the game to you? What he thought? He laughed. And now every time when I see him also at the last expo, he still says the same thing to me. He says, you stole my shots.
    69:25
    Ah, nice. Yeah, he loved it. He loved it. I think it was so bright. And he was there. Yeah. A lot of famous pinball people were there. And it was quite amazing. That's cool. Well, it has been 10 years. A lot of people got their orders in when the game first came out. But how are sales these days? Are they consistent? Yeah, very consistent. Actually, we now have an order stop because we have the license up until the end of this year. And we already have all the orders filled we can build in this year. So right now we're wrapping up final orders with the distributors. And hopefully we manage to build them all this year. That kind of brings up a point in that there was discussion, and I know that this has become public knowledge, to maybe make another version of this game. Frangie had done a complete art package and you had talked to some of the licensors and unfortunately it didn't pan out do you ever see yourself going back to the well and maybe rerunning this in the future? Not with that artwork I don't know I mean I think for us it's also good to do something else for a change but yeah I never say never I mean I don't know I think with the upcoming projects we will have work for the next three to four years and I don't think Lebowski will fit in there. I think with the things we have planned, we also hired a second building now across the street. I think our goal is to go up to maybe 20 games a week, so like 1,000 per year. I think that's the maximum we want to build. You have now pretty much set off the FOMO sequence of events because when you say that a game is no longer being made, that's when it starts to really skyrocket in popularity. so people are on Pinsight right now searching for Lebowskis well that's good for this year we still build Lebowskis and hopefully we fill up all the orders, the original orders are also almost done, we have 10 here one of the last 10 here ready now to go out this week with another badge for the US and after that I think it's only 12 left so that will be built in the next couple of weeks congratulations for getting through all of those games, I know it's been a long road Yeah, wow. Yeah, it was, you know, when we did the deal back then with ARA, the former company, when we settled the lawsuit, I think it was 2019, I think, 2019, it was in summer. And then we thought, okay, now we got this. What else could happen? What else could go wrong?
    72:03
    And of course, then COVID. Ask and you shall receive. Yes. So I'm never saying anything like that again.
    72:12
    So we've been asking everybody what their biggest success was for 2023. And I'm guessing it's probably, you know, finishing up the Lebowski run. But we also saw that the official grand opening of your production facility in the Netherlands was completed in May. And Pinball Magazine did a really nice write-up of that. So what would you say? Like, overall, what was your highlight of 2023? I think the opening party was in 2022, actually. So there was none in 2023. Well, yeah, I think, like you already said, I think the biggest accomplishment right now is that we are super close to getting all the old orders finished. And that's basically what we worked for the last couple of years. And it was super hard to do. I mean, it cost a lot of money, a lot of extra money, new money. But I'm proud that we managed to do so. And the finish line is really inside. How do you say that? So what are you looking forward to most in 2024 for Dutch Pinball? Expanding our production capability, getting a little bit better at production in general. I mean, everybody says pinball is hard, but it actually really is, especially with the amounts of parts and supplies you have. It's really very hard, even after three, four years of experience now, to get everything in place on time and build games and not have to stop production because something is not in stock. And of course, I look forward to showing new projects finally. So that will happen this year. Mentioning new projects, are we? Yeah, we touch on that.
    73:48
    There have been a lot of heavily speculated titles coming from you guys. The one that was the biggest that we've heard for a long time now is that there are rumors you're working on one of the most anticipated games for a lot of people out there in a Back to the Future remake or, I guess, a new take on the Back to the Future franchise. So are there any comments you can make one way or another in terms of whether that is true? I'm aware of the rumors, of course. I mean, I'm getting a lot of emails, and people are calling me about this. Well, I can't comment on it. It's as simple as that. People will see what's next. This is serious.
    74:30
    I'm going to mark that down as a yes. There's a heartbeat to that one. So, all right, well, in addition to that one, in the last few weeks, we've heard that with 100% certainty from some people out there, that J-Pop's Alice in Wonderland is getting made into an actual functional game and that you're the company working on it. Can you comment on that?
    74:51
    Also, I can't comment on that. Okay. No. We're staying up right now. And we're done. All right. Yeah, you know what? But, you know, it's always hard, you know, with new projects and new themes. And, you know, nobody can talk about it until the official release. So, sorry. We didn't expect an answer. Totally understandable. But we had to ask. Yes, of course. Well, let's talk about this, Barry. Now, you know, Christian and I were at American Pinball. Was that about a year ago? Yeah, about. Before Galactic Tank Force came out. And there were, like, four different Whitewoods laying around, games that they have coming in the future. I've got to think with you having streamlined your production line to get your big Lebowski's out the door, you yourself and your development team have had to have been sitting around and you must have all kinds of stuff laying around that you're just ready to work on once big Lebowski's out the door. Have you developed a whole bunch of new stuff? At least can you say that? You don't have to say what it is, but just say you've got a graveyard of whitewoods laying around in your building. I don't think, no, not Whitewoods, but we have a lot of stuff. Also, you know, I don't know, not only the actual play field or stuff like that, but a bunch of other stuff that we are working on that will be shown in the new game. Okay. When do you hope to release a new game? Not yet. We're still, some stuff is still in development. And I hope, like I said, we're working on two projects right now. I hope one of them will release at least this year, and the other one will be by the end of this year or beginning of 2025. Are you guys going to be at TPF or Expo?
    76:32
    TPF, no. Expo, probably, yeah. Okay. All right. Maybe another show in between, but then we'll just have to see how the timeline is. But, yeah, we will be in the U.S. this year for sure. Cool. So many people really appreciate the way you translated the Big Lebowski movie to a machine with Bally Williams' level of magic. You've got a lot of people hoping that Dutch makes their dream theme. How does that make you feel about people that are just excited for what is coming from Dutch Pitball, and is it going to be the one that they love? Thanks for the compliment on the Balski.
    77:04
    I'm sure we will and try to make the same kind of magic for the new theme as we did for the Balski. Our goal is to put in full stuff and toys and really cool magic stuff to shoot at or, you know, to look at. And it will be something special. Just like Lebowski, we are going for a full team integration, and we will do everything we can to make it as special as possible. That's magic to a lot of people's ears, Barry. We're really excited to see what's next. If it comes anywhere close to Lebowski, you've got a hit on your hands. Thanks, thanks. Should we try and trap him by asking if he also has to get a license for the DeLorean car?
    77:45
    No comment. Well, thank you for joining us and letting us kind of barrage some questions your way. You did great, and we really appreciate you coming on. It's been long overdue. We've wanted to have you on the show for a long time, so we're glad we can make it happen. Looking very forward to what you've got coming. I can't wait. Okay, thanks. Thanks, guys. Bye-bye. Stern Pinball.
    78:18
    George Gomez is a pinball legend. If there's something in the works now or in the distant future at Stern Pinball, as the Executive Vice President of Game Development and Chief Creative Officer, George is directly involved in making it happen. Hot off the release of Stern's new release, Jaws Pinball, it's great to have him back on the show today to chat about Stern's 2023 and maybe a little bit about what's in store for us this year. Welcome back to the super awesome pinball show year-in-review special, George Gomez. All right. Good to be back. Good to have you. Can we call this take two?
    79:03
    You can tell the audience that we basically accidentally did a dry run yesterday. I think George deleted it because he enjoys coming out with us so much. He's like, I want to do it tomorrow. Well, you know the drill. We did this yesterday and we got some great answers. So we are ready for those again. Let's reflect on Stern's pinball year in 2023. So we're going to kind of rapid fire through some topics and just give us a few quick thoughts about Stern's 2023 year and maybe elaborate on anything you want to. So let's start off with the theme and IP selection for 2023. How do you think Stern did? You know, I'd give us a B, mostly because, so when we select licenses, there's a lot of thought that goes into not just that specific license, but like what's in front of it, what's behind it, what does the stern year look like? It also takes into account, you know, like what we did the previous year and sort of what we're going to do the year after. And for obvious reasons, right, you don't want two Marvel titles back to back, you don't want two music titles back to back, you want to mix things up. I think that the other consideration that always goes through mind is we try to appeal to everybody. So, now, that's not to say that we don't occasionally do something that is niche or more focused. We do that. You guys know we do. You know, when we did Deadpool, I don't know that the majority of the audience knew who Deadpool was. Now, it turned out it was a fun game, and then people adopted it, and now it's a staple. But going into it, we were, like, a little iffy. You know, is Deadpool a known character? You know, Deadpool's certainly not Spider-Man. You know, he's not the Avengers, right? So when you do characters like that, you're basically rolling the dice. I think we rolled the dice on Venom, and a lot of people maybe don't necessarily relate to that character. Now, that being said, Venom is an amazing game, and I don't know if you guys have any time to spend playing it, but, you know, the other cool thing about Insider Connected is that now I have insight into game performance, and it's not anecdotal, right? It's like I can actually see the numbers. And I'll tell you this right now. I'll tell you that Venom is one of the highest earning games on the street today. And in addition to that, I think that when I look at the overall play numbers on Venom, they're as good, if not better than other stuff. And so across the board, like people are playing it a lot in their homes, etc. The ones that are there are getting played a lot. I think that I know we're going to talk about innovation a little bit, but you really can't mention Venom without the mention of the innovations that are in it, such as, you know, leveling up characters, maintaining your progress, all those kinds of things which are staples in the video game world, but they're new to us. And, you know, that's all Dwight and Brian, and I think that stuff is pretty cool, right? I mean, that's the game, I think those rapid-fire locks. Interesting thing about the rapid-fire locks on Venom, right, is it's like you have to stand in front of the game to experience them, right? Right. It's like they don't read in any video I've seen. No one understands. It just looks like, you know, it just looks like, oh, yeah, it's a lock. It's returning pinballs. It's when you have to make the shot and that thing is firing stuff at you and you have to respond to that, that those things are truly fun, right? The other thing that doesn't come across on video is this is a play field that literally transforms the architecture of the play field. Where the ball goes, that thing changes up on the fly as you play, depending on what you're doing, what characters, all that stuff, right? And, again, doesn't read on video. And so I think, you know, when you talk about what could we have done better, we could have done a much better job of showing off those features and talking about those features, right? Because that set of three things that I just talked about, none of those come across in a video presentation. And it's just, you know, it's just the nature of the beast, right? So we should have spent more time showing that stuff off and getting people engaged. All that said, I think that a year from now, the Venom conversations will be all different. because as people discover it, all of a sudden it's like, you know, I don't know what anybody's talking about. This is great. And I've seen that before, right? We had a soft launch on Stranger Things, and now try to get a Stranger Things. So even Deadpool. Deadpool went out, and it wasn't, you know, people looked at my play field and said, yeah, there's nothing here. You know, stand in front of it and play it. Now it's a different, you got a different feeling coming off the game. So I believe, I think a year from now, Venom will be a non-controversy, if you will. And as you said, I mean, maybe people are figuring that out now because if the game is being played and doing so well in location, you know, people might be using that feature of coming back and starting from where they left off and, you know, really using the insider connected features that are really highlighted in that game. You talk about titles and licenses in 23, and I just rambled on about that. The big story in 23 is really the fact that we moved the factory, right? That's a huge undertaking. I can't tell you enough what it took to do that. And my hat's off to people like Ray Tanzer, who drove that project, and all of the support people that helped him, you know, the folks in the factory. I mean, you're talking about redesigning the assembly lines, the process of material in and out of the building, the coordinating, the construction, the build-out. You know, you got helicopters dropping air conditioning units down the ceiling and all this stuff. I mean, if you haven't seen the video, you should see the video. And the video doesn't tell the tale. So you got this company. You got to accomplish this giant move of a factory. And you have to minimize the time you do this because in our business, how we make our money is we manufacture pinball games and ship them out the door and sell them. And that's how we make our money. So those assembly lines running every available production day, every workable day of the year is really significant to us. So we had scheduled about a two-week period to pull it off, and we did. And that is amazing. And then think about the development teams. The development teams had to continue developing games. Salespeople had to continue to sell the games. You know, manufacturing people had to make games right up until the day that we shut them down and said, okay, you know, we had to stage what we could in the new building to pull this off. I mean, it's like moving the U.S. Army across the continent. It's unbelievable. Two buildings, right? Because you guys have seen the big manufacturing building, but nobody has seen the wood production building, right? We used to have two giant CNC machines that cut play fields two up every time the machine is cutting two play fields simultaneously. and we now have four so we have two more machines and we had to go through all the regulatory stuff you're generating a bunch of saw to us the city of Elk Grove wants to make sure the facility is safe that you know we're complying with all the EPA stuff everything all that stuff has to happen so yeah I mean it was a massive effort that is the success story that and the fact that hey we had another record year so we had a record year and we shut the factory down for two weeks and we moved it. So I don't know what else we could have done in 23. We're going to slow George down in one answer. He's hitting every one of these. That's great. He already knows who we're going to ask. So I mean, you know, we were going to ask you about your greatest success and greatest challenge. And you clearly just covered both of those. I mean, I feel like what a challenge and the fact that you pulled it off. That's a huge success. Yeah. I'm curious. Did you build a second set of production lines and then people just made the jump over or did you have to actually move the production lines over and then bring the people in a little bit of both some stuff is brand new in the build in the new building because it's a lot bigger so lines that didn't exist in the old building had to be built the build out you know this building that we're in used to be a bonded warehouse, meaning that, you know, a shipping company owned it. It was a secure location. So when freight comes in from another country, it's monitored and controlled very tightly until it's approved to go to its destination. And that's what this building used to do. So as a giant warehouse, it didn't have, you know, the lighting, the air, the power, the, you know, all the things that it takes to service assembly lines. So, you know, we had to do that. And then, you know, the other thing is, our business is very strange, right? You could take, you can take a sales team, a marketing team, a tech support team, you can put them in a cubicle office farm, but what do you do about a whitewood lab? That doesn't exist. You got to build it out. And what do you do about a product development studio? Our needs are a little bit different. And because it's a different kind of interaction with, you know, physical things and all that, you know, electronics labs and mechanical engineering labs and test engineering and all this kind of stuff had to be built out. I don't know if, Chris, did you make it to the building for the tour? In all honesty, I was reading the website for Expo and I saw the tour and I'm like, oh, I got to see the new tour. And then I was reading. Yeah, you're working for a competitor. I was reading the details. Yeah, I forgot. And I'm like, oh, I've been shut out. Yeah, shut out, yeah.
    88:18
    You know, you mentioned that, the Expo thing, and it's a courtesy that dates back to Williams Day, the East Days, Gottlieb Days, Valley Days. I mean, it's just a courtesy, right? It's like, you know, there's proprietary stuff in those buildings. But anyway, you know, I hope someday you guys get to see it. It's an amazing facility. I had a lot of fun. I've got these giant super graphics everywhere of enormous play fields, like 40-foot high play fields and stuff. We had a lot of fun with that stuff. I live in there a little bit because my Guardians of the Galaxy is in there, in the design room. A bunch of stuff is there. Beatles, there's a bunch of your stuff. Oh, really? Yeah. In the video, I just saw them putting up the Guardians one. Yeah, there's a bunch. That's cool. I think that should shoo me in for not only that, but the fact that I've been there before and there ain't nothing I'm going to see that I haven't seen before should allow me to come back in. Because nobody gets to see anything good anyway. I mean, like, you know, here's what we're working on. Me or anyone else. So what's to see? Hey, Jack, you know what I saw in this?
    89:29
    They've got bathrooms. What is the capability of the new factory versus the old factory? What scale have you guys moved up to? It's probably more than twice, to tell you the truth. That doesn't mean that we're taking advantage of it, right? The notion of manufacturing is it's an ecosystem, right? So there's a certain amount of demand in the marketplace. You have to get product through the sales channel, and you build to satisfy that demand. So the good news is that we can have more parallel efforts, right? So before, yes, we could parallel two lines, but there was a lot of constraints relative to the things that allowed us to do that. And so now we can parallel more efforts. And so you could theoretically have a lot of different product moving simultaneously. What are you looking most forward to in 2024? I mean, already 2024 started out with JAWS being released, and that's a big deal for you guys. And John, it's kind of early in the year. Are you now going to work back towards the three cornerstone gains a year? Is that your goal? What are you looking for at 2024? Yeah, so that's a great question because there's been a lot of confusion since some of the webinars that we did with some of our customers and meeting our dealer distributor network about what our future plans look like. So, yes, we're back to the cadence of three cornerstones a year, and it gives you an opportunity to clear up a couple of things, right? So in the past, we haven't given a lot of thought to the notion of how we produce LEs. Like a lot of times we get a request from a licensor and a licensor says, hey, we've got an anniversary coming. And, you know, we look at it. Oh, that's an opportunity to put more games in the marketplace. It's an opportunity for people. And honestly, it's like for all the grief we get about, you know, everybody thinks we're like diabolical in this. We're not that volatile. Here's the deal. If LEs are limited number games, our thinking had been if you didn't get the limited edition of that, here's a small run of 500 additional limited editions that are different. You can make choices. You could sell the one you have and buy the new one if you're in love with it, or you can just let someone else that didn't get a chance at the first batch of LEs have at it. And we haven't had any trouble selling those limited editions. So it's not like, you know, they've sat around. So a licensor calls and says, hey, you know, we're doing this or we're doing that. Can you guys create something to celebrate and commemorate it? And we have. But there's been a lot of concern from the people that basically they're buying an LE because they want the Uber model. They want the exclusivity. They want the best of everything. So to respect that, we're going to turn the dial back on just throwing LEs at anniversaries and all kinds of things. So we are going to do every cornerstone. We'll have a limited edition. It will be the uber best, as loaded up as we can make it for the price point that we sell it at. And things like anniversaries will be handled as premiums. That means a new ARC package on a premium. Now, the other thing that was touched on in the webinars and I want to talk about is the notion of remakes on DMDs. And, you know, everybody right away, like I get, I bet you I get a request for a Lord of the Rings or a Tron like once a week in my inbox from somebody. That's me, just under different names. Yeah.
    93:01
    And there's people, you know, there's so. Frisker Cranchy. there's a guy there's a guy that uh talks to me he goes by the name uh joseph franchi is that is i don't even know if that's his real name or if that's a guy messing with you no that's a real guy that he's a pinball dude but yeah not not related to chris okay all right so because i thought i said is franchi like reinventing himself in different places so that One of me is too much.
    93:32
    But I think this Joe guy needs to be aware of the Franchetti. Yeah, yeah. One of my favorite Italian restaurants, Franchetti's.
    93:42
    And my name on Twitch. So, Chris, whenever I walk in there, I ask for you. Is Chris in tonight? Is there really a place called Franchetti's? No. Oh, I'm just making that up. Oh, I thought you were making it up. But then when you said that, I'm like, hey, is that real? That came from Capco, didn't it? How's that French City guy working it out?
    94:04
    Exactly. So let's talk about DMD games. So, look, porting a DMD game out of a very old system, the first challenge you have is you have to go out and re-get this license. And then you have to look at the marketplace and say, how many of these things are we going to sell? Is it worth this enormous effort that it's going to take us to make this thing? We've got to get the license. there's a huge engineering effort in porting one of those old games to one of the new systems because we would never make it on the old systems. You know, I mean, those parts are end of life in a lot of cases, and they're just not available, not practical for us either. I mean, we've done everything we can to standardize our platform for the, you know, for the sake of manufacturing and cost efficiencies. and so to introduce one of those old platforms into the mix is just a disaster. So that means that whatever video assets, audio assets, all that stuff would have to be regenerated in some way to fit one of the new systems. So, I mean, there's a lot of guys freaking out about, you know, is my Metallica, is my Lord of the Rings, is my Spider-Man going to lose value because they're going to remake it? I can't answer that question. And I can tell you that it's not like we're going to do, you know, three of those a year or anything like that. And we're going to be very selective in which ones we pick. And honestly, when, you know, we just got done talking about the LEs and stuff, I'm not promising you that those games will get LEs. But if you have a game that's in super high demand and you have a customer base that's saying, build this for me, we might build, you know, we might build a Tron LE or something like that. It's not going to be a thing that becomes a regular cadence, right? And when you think about a game like Tron, right, huge demand for this game in the aftermarket. People call me and ask me about it all the time, right? And you say, okay, so if we were going to do this, how do we do it? It's like, as it is, all of our vaults, anytime you buy a vault from us, I guarantee you it's a better game than the original. The Spider-Man vault is a better game than the original. And why is that? because one of the very first things we do is we call Pat Powers in tech service and say, hey, Pat, what broke? Because in good conscience, if I know the web slingers self-destruct, am I going to remake self-destructing web slingers? I'm not. I'm going to say, no, I'm going to make them out of stainless steel. They were plastic last time. I'm going to make them out of stainless steel. So Pat Powers says to me, we're replacing those things left and right. We've got a lot of calls on them, blah, blah, blah. And so an Iron Man vault is a better game than the original Iron Man because things like, you know, the magnet that used to wear a hole in the play field, well, you know, I invented that stainless steel ring around it, and we got a patent on it. And now when the ball, you know, goes back and forth, it doesn't basically sand your play fields to nothingness like everybody else's play fields in the business, right? So I can tell you that anniversaries are going to be premiums. I can tell you that we're going to make LEs almost exclusively as cornerstones. and we're going to watch demand on DMD games. And at a minimum, DMD games may be a premium.
    97:21
    And even that's up in the air right now. Can I just touch on that really quick, though? Because I think that is something people are going to want to know more about. So you said if there's an anniversary edition of a game, that is going to be premium only. There's no LEs that are going to touch that. But with these DMD remakes, there's a possibility that you might go back to the LE world. There's no guarantee there either. And there's no guarantee there. that it's not going to be just a premium. We have to look at it and say, okay, so... And by the way, our licensor base is very used to pro-premium melody. And sometimes it's a licensor that says, you must build this. And I'll tell you, I'll give you an example of that. The Bond 60th was a licensor request. You've heard me say that before. You've heard Ellen say that before. Bond 60th was a licensor request. And sometimes if something like that is tied to the deal, then it's tied to the deal, right? And, you know, you have to look at it from the licensor's standpoint. It's a point of revenue. So they may make it a conditional license They may say if you want to do this I need this X amount of revenue and I want that skew and you can do it And so these things are way more complicated, but I'll tell you that, you know, anniversaries are going to be premiums. This is a premium level game. People have asked me, you know, does that mean black armor? Yes, it means black armor. Does it mean none of the fancy stuff that goes into an LE? Yes, It means none of the fancy stuff that's going to go into an LE is going to make it into an anniversary edition. So an anniversary edition is essentially going to be an art package on a premium game. Let me ask you something about Tron, George. Now that the second part, the one that the game was based on, has come and gone, the original has stood the test of time, whereas the one the game was based on is kind of floating around there. Would it be possible for you guys to take your Tron game and repackage it as the original Tron? You know, I'll tell you that we were talking about Tron because the community has asked for it. And internally, we've discussed it. But the discussions haven't gone much further than what we are talking about here today. I don't know that, you know, I would love some element of it to be the original Tron that I worked on when I was 26. I think that would be a great sort of full circle moment for me personally in my career. I don't, you know, and of course, I'm going to respect, you know, I mean, it's, Look, it's John Borg's game. It's not mine. So, you know, we're going to work in the constructs of his game because that's what the community loves and wants. But to your point, Chris, if we were doing that, would we dress one like the 1982 Tron and one like the more recent Tron? Maybe. I don't know. Would we use video footage from the current, you know, the current films? Probably. You know, I don't know. You know, again, when you start going down that path, things get complicated fast, right? Because you say, oh, so I got a whole new, this isn't like calling the licensor and saying, I'm remaking the game we made in whatever it is that we made Tron. I'm essentially creating a new product. They're going to want approvals on all the new stuff. So you got to think about that too. You got to say, is this worth it? Or do I just figure out a way to emulate the DMD and call it a day and just make more of them? I don't know. I really don't know what the answer is, and I don't think anyone in the company does, because the conversation, as I'm telling you, is like, we've talked about it only because the audience continues to ask us about it, but we haven't done anything like that, and there's nothing like that in the works, I guarantee you. So, it's complex. You've got a licensing problem. You've got an engineering problem. You have a, what are the numbers on a DMD remake? Are they, you know, do they approach a corner store? I don't think so. Okay, so what do you do with the price? You know, you've got to amortize this engineering effort. You've got to amortize this licensing cost. You've got to do, you know, so it's complex. It's not a slam dunk turnkey thing in any way. Let me do one last question, Chris, for the DMD stuff before we move on, because I do think people will want to know this. And this will kind of put a nail in the Lord of the Rings coffin to a certain extent, but Lord of the Rings is White Star, and then you have the Spike system after that. I think you're trying to explain this on. Well, you have Sam. You have Sam. That's right. So what games would be eligible? So the easiest game to do would probably, and even then there are a lot of work, anything close to Spike. And certainly anything in Spike, you know, I think Ghostbuster was Ghostbuster Spike, I think it was. Yes. And Ghostbuster Spike. So if you wanted to start somewhere and minimize the engineering effort and all that stuff, you'd probably start there. But if you went, you know, like I said, you want to go back to White Star? Oh, my God. You know, we've got some work to do. And the other thing is, too, is, like, are you going to be happy with a Lord of the Rings without the action figures? Because no way we're getting all those action figures. You know, that's, like, impossible. That's, like, those were back in the days when we used to do a deal with the toy company that made the toys. And we bought those toys and we put them on the game. I think there were, when I did that game, I think there were two custom molded parts, the ball rod and the tower in the corner. Everything else came from the toy company. All those little guys, all the little Lord of the Rings guys, the guy on the horse in the back, all that stuff came from the toy company. So that's tough. And, you know, I mean, these are the things that nobody thinks about, but they're real. Well, it's good to know that there are some really good reasons why that may not happen and that people can just heal now. They can move forward and go through the stages of grief. Will you, Christian? Will you? Yes.
    103:20
    Well, George, what do you feel Stern's biggest, greatest innovation for 2023 has been? I think it's the stuff that we did with Insider Connected. So Insider Connected launched a couple of years ago, as you know. When we first launched it, you know that effort, Insider Connected was an effort that was a silo engineering project separate from anything the game teams were doing. In order to keep the game teams on track to deliver their games and focus on their games, the game teams had almost nothing to do with Insider Connected as it was being developed. other than being informed about some of the things we were doing. And there was a bunch of guys in Guido's team on the system side that were very focused on making sure that the first set of features that launched with Insider would be integrated seamlessly into that batch of games with minimal pain from the design teams. So the design teams participated, like, for example, and one of the first things at launch was achievements, right? And the design teams participated in the design of their achievements for the game. And they worked inside of a construct that basically I created saying, you know, these are the rules of XP. This is how this works. This is what I want you to do. You can have, you know, you can have 50 achievements, you can have 35 achievements, but you have this maximum number of XP. I conveyed the concept of, you know, verified, non-verified, all that stuff. And from the designers and the lead developers, I got the achievements, requirements for each of the games. The systems team, you know, specifically guys like Mark Panaccio and Mark Guidarelli, they focused very much on integrating that and making sure that the teams were distracted to a minimum. But that was the first year, and the first year was, you know, there's a bunch of tech in support of Insider Connected. And Insider Connected has been incredibly well received in terms of adoption. We've doubled the number of subscriptions this year from what we hit last year. We continue to grow. It continues to grow at a tremendous rate. And so I think that in 23, the teams began to wrap their heads around, oh, here's all this cool stuff that we could do. And then you get things like the leveling up system and the persistent data on Venom. that comes from Brian and Dwight, and those guys start thinking about, hey, wouldn't it be cool if... Now, every time a team dreams something up, and they're dreaming it up now on a regular basis, guys are coming to see me about, you know, I want to do this, I want to do that. We have to create the engineering, the technology that supports that concept. And every time we evolve the system by creating that package of technology that allows you to do whatever, in the case of Brian and Dwight, It was a persistent data and, you know, let's create a persistent world. I play Venom today. When I come back tomorrow, it knows where I left off, what I did, et cetera. Every time we do that, it takes us some amount of support engineering on the system side, on the IC side to create that game feature. So even though teams are inventing stuff all the time, the rollout for that stuff is done in bits and pieces. It's planned, and we work on executing it. If I can wave my hand and say, what do I want? I want more IC development resources. I don't have enough to satisfy all the things I promised, all the things that I want to do, and this influx of new ideas that's coming to me because the teams are understanding what we do. One of my challenges from the exec team was we're all about growing the community. we feel that growing the community is about engaging people in the games. And not just people that we have in the community, but we want those people to bring their friends, invite people, expose them to the hobby, etc. And so the way to do that is to get people playing more pinball. So one of my goals was to get, you know, increased pinball play. And you saw the Questapalooza thing that I, you know, generated in December with a bunch of different quests. And it did exactly what it was designed to do, right? Play went through the roof. Now, we specifically talked about, you know, December because, you know, people are home, people are enjoying the holidays, and we wanted very much, and I just saw the numbers the other day, and I was blown away by how much we bumped play with all that stuff, right? We got all these guys, like, losing their minds. They don't want to see Godzilla for three weeks because they were, like, chasing that crazy thing, you know? But I guess what I'm telling you is that we'll continue to support IC with any tech that's already been done, like quests or achievements, things like that. You know, that stuff's available and will continue. Every month you're going to see something. New tech will fall in as the games are released, right? You saw in Jaws, we have a new sort of a career system, you know, where you collect shark teeth and, you know, you move up ranks and stuff like that. You know, that's a new piece of the system that's being introduced with the game, right? And then the other thing is, once the tech is built, any team can use anything. So you might see a persistent world system or an XP-dependent system in another game that is dressed or presented to you in the context of that game, as opposed to, you know, maybe it's a copy or whatever, but sometimes it might look a lot different to you. George, do you see, you know how we have modes like Escape Nublar, special modes like co-op modes in games. Do you feel like there will be one day a setting that utilizes Insider Connected where you can say, okay, now I want this to be an XP version of the game where I can level up and save my progress? Absolutely. That's cool. Absolutely. You know, the power of IC to pull stuff like that off is amazing, right? You know, never a lot of conversation about all access, right? All Access is a subscription-based IC. And my feeling is that we haven't done it justice. We took the old loyalty program and rebranded it in Cider Connected All Access, but we didn't really do much with it. We haven't done much with it. So I think this coming year you're going to see a bunch of features added to that so that you're getting some value for your subscription. And let's talk about everybody always asks me, everybody's really afraid of microtransactions. and, you know, am I going to charge you for the multiball? No, I'm not going to charge you for the multiball. You have to think about this. The audience for the companies that work, that operate in those environments are in the millions. And now someday, I hope if I do my job right, that our audience will be in the millions and the conversation will be different. But today, the conversation, it's not that. So what revenue am I interested in from Insider Connected? I'll tell you specifically. If I give you home leaderboards, my server costs go up because I am now hosting potentially hundreds of thousands of home leaderboards. So I might take home leaderboards and put them in All Access just so that the All Access subscriptions helps to fund that. So there are features like that that I have to pay for. There's another thing we don't talk about, which is we deliver what we feel are the state-of-the-art games. And we're consistent with it. They are the most played games in the world. And I'm not bragging. That's just a fact. And the technology that supports that, the technology that extends that, it's something that we are covering, right? It's like, so when we get to 1.0 and we continue to extend the game or we introduce new challenge modes or we create an event in IC that people participate in, that's technology that we're funding. And it is part of, I mean, we believe in it because our core business is not to nickel and dime you with microtransactions or whatever. Our core business is to manufacture and sell pinball machines. And we don't pretend to be anything else. Now, that said, I would be an idiot if I didn't tell you that I want to live in 2024 with my technology, with my stuff. I want to extend the game of pinball. I want to create an Xbox Live for pinball, which is where I started with this whole insider connected thing. That's where I'm going. There will always be a free IC subscription that looks a lot like the IC subscription you have today. You'll have access to quests. You'll have access to achievements. You'll have access to events. You may have access to more stuff. But there are some things like, you know, I may take home leaderboards, which require a bunch of server money to support them because that becomes exponentially overnight. It could be 100,000 houses with all leaderboards. And by the way, you know, if you do something like that, it's like play at your buddy's house. Everybody doesn't need it. All that's the subscription, right? Whoever's hosting the leaderboard is the guy that needs to do it. But anybody else that he wants participating in it is not. You know, it's not a requirement to do that. And, you know, all that said, I'm sensitive to the notion of, you know, what things cost. and I don't want to raise prices on anything if I don't have to. I want to keep it just the way it is. Yeah, no, I think it's reassuring that you're always going to have a base-free model of Insider Connected without, you know, if there are additional bells and whistles added in the future, that may be behind the paywall of sorts, but you've had all access for a long time now. And I think the people who are going to do all access are probably already doing it, but that would incentivize them maybe to buy in more. Most people are going to get it. Like one day they're going to wake up and they're going to go, what's this cool new feature in all access? What is that? And they will have already paid for it because we'll grandfather it in for anybody who's got it. But there's a bunch of different things that we're planning that may require, you know, and some of it is simply, it may only require engineering. But the reality is that we're trying to add value for your, you know, whatever you're spending on all access. We're trying to add value to that so that I don't get guys saying, you know, I mean, I read the forums, I read the stuff. And I see guys saying, you know, I only do this so that I have access to the whatever, this 50, you know, the small bucket of LEs that the company sells direct. And think about that, right? Do you think that's a money grab? Honest to God, it's like to sell 50 games direct, that's a PR thing more than anything else. We don't, you know, it's like really, you know, it's like that revenue is not like going to generate significant dollars to the company. So you do that primarily as a benefit to the all-access people. It's not really a... Yeah, it's just another thing. You can call your dealer and you can try to get, you know, you get one wherever you get one. Look, they move, right? The jaws are gone. They're gone. So, and, you know, it's really just about that. So with COVID, inflation, part shortages, increased demand, And that's all caused pricing for certain games and pinballs in general to increase over the last few years. I know this isn't a George Gomez decision, but do you see any changes to game prices? And I think you've pretty much talked a little bit about this, maybe quite a bit, either going up or down in the coming year. Well, I'll tell you that Seth and I have talked about how do we figure out a way to drop them.
    114:57
    I'd love to figure out a way to do that. I don't know that we can, but at the same time, we're trying to hold them. We are trying very hard to hold them. We are absolutely aware of the sensitivities in the world. We also have to deal with the fact that we pay for material. I don't control what someone sells me something for. And so if the plywood vendor has decided that his pricing is coming back down to pre-COVID pricing, that's great. But if he hasn't, I don't have a lot. I mean, I can call him on it. I can say, hey, why is this? And now he's going to tell me, well, you know what, you guys are using Russian birch. There's a war over there. And so, you know, I'm like, oh, yeah, I forgot about that. So there's different things that can affect the world we live in. I would suggest to you, look in your personal lives, how much of the stuff that you buy on a regular basis has significantly dropped prices to pre-COVID levels. And I would, based on my own experience, I don't see a lot of that. I think I can get a punny factory game for a lot less these days.
    116:09
    I don't think George is going to comment on that. I'll take all the details. George, one thing we didn't ask you about, though, is demand. Obviously, it's down from COVID levels, I have to imagine, but have you caught up with the demand that you had? You've always had a very significant backlog. So where would you say you are with that? So we've caught up with a lot of the backlog. There's still a backlog. Every company, I think it's a part of business planning to always have a little bit of a backlog. And so we have, you know, what we've seen is that the world, like, just like, you know, now you're going out to restaurants again and you're, you know, doing things normally. You're working out at the gym and doing all the normal things you used to do before COVID. The world is normalized to some extent. So, the COVID demand of, you know, I'm stuck in my house, I'm not taking the family on vacation, so I'm going to buy a $10,000 pinball machine, that's stopped. That's gone. But it's a normalization, right? That didn't exist. That demand didn't exist pre-COVID. So, we're just seeing, I mean, we've had, you know, we had another record year. You know, I don't know what 24 holds, but I know that in 23, considering we shut the factory down for two weeks to move, that's significant. And record year means it was bigger than 22. I hear stuff's moving differently through dealers and slowing down and stuff like that. I have heard this, and that's reality. I think it'll level out. I really do. And I think, you know, I'll tell you what, I don't know, this past Friday, that it didn't seem to be the case. That things had slowed down because, you know, the jaws made a big splash. Hey-oh! you're going to need a bigger basement uh what else what else we heard here hook line and sinker uh yeah play with your chums right well that's good so jaws you saw a lot of positive movement with jaws and people were very excited about super excited yeah absolutely super excited and you know ellies and i mean just Throughout the product line, there's been demand. People reaching out to me. I ordered a pro. I ordered a premium. You know, I didn't get an LE. You know, so, I mean, very excited about that. And you're going to see there's a bunch of people at CES. You're going to see all three models, I think. But if you're on the floor at CES, stop by the Stern booth and flip the game. It's an amazing game. And it's one of those games that, you know, cool things begot cool things. Right? And it's not a thing you can plan. I've been on those teams. I've been on, you know, my Monster Bash team, my Lord of the Rings team, my Batman team, my Deadpool team, right? Those are products where, you know, one cool thing yields another cool thing, yields another cool thing, yields another cool thing, and it's that kind of game. And so, you know, very exciting. Cool. Cannot wait to play it. It looks really awesome. I got one last question. Yeah. Well, first of all, since we were talking about puns earlier, I've got a marketing slogan for your Jaws game. Jaws, Stern's barrels of fun for your game room. It's totally Jaws-some.
    119:27
    You're going to need a bigger game room. I'll plant the seed, you water it. You guys will get a kick out of this. I, you know, Greg Ferris and I go way back, right? And I give him a hard time about that, you know, every time I turn around, there's another Elvira. I can't keep him straight.
    119:49
    You know, the other day I was texting with Greg and I said, you know what, you're going to be 90 years old. You'd be telling these guys, Sonny, I remember when we built that first Elvira. And so we were riffing on names. I was like, well, you haven't done the corpse edition yet.
    120:09
    You haven't done the graveyard edition, the coffin edition, the, you know, bats in the belfry edition.
    120:18
    It's got to have some sort of double entendre, though. It has to. Throw it in the Munsters LE cabinet and do a coffin edition.
    120:27
    Oh, my goodness. Well, listen, we have talked, and rightfully so, about a lot of what's going on good with Stern, what's going on great with Stern. So I would ask you, because I can't pick anything, but you oversee everything. What do you think at Stern requires the most effort to maybe elevate? I'll give you an answer that you're not going to believe. I think everything. I don't think that you can sit around and count your successes. I think that you always have to say, how can we be better? And, you know, when you see us respond to the fact that people think that we're devaluing LEs, it's because we say, you know, we could be better. We could make sure that these people, the LEs, aren't devalued. We are constantly concerned by quality, right? I look at the forums, and you do have to put that stuff in context. We make thousands of games. And so even if you went to social media and counted complaints of bad stuff, it's not a number I like, but it's, you know, we make thousands of games. So I think we could be better in everything. We could be more efficient in product development. We could be more attuned to what the community wants. I mean, everything in our world, you know, the manufacturing guys and the mechanical engineers talk about the notion of constant improvement, right? It's part of the Toyota method. And so I'll tell you that I'm a fan, right? It's like, you know, just because we're this good today, nothing guarantees that we're going to be that good tomorrow if we don't keep pushing. And honestly, I've driven the studio that way for the 12 years I've been doing it with this company. And I've said, I'm going to build a studio. I always wanted. I'm going to try to eliminate the things I didn't like in all the studios I worked at. And I'm going to try to make amazing shit. And that's what that. And I think, you know, it doesn't come from sitting around going on the best. It comes from saying I could be better. And I truly believe that. I think it's why Stern is the market leader, right? I mean, you're always trying to improve and you're making things better every day. That's great. You know, every time we screw something up, you can't sit around and go, oh, I'm the market leader. I get to screw up. No, you don't. You don't get to screw up because you're the market leader.
    122:41
    You get to be better. You shouldn't be screwing up. The other guys should be screwing up. You know, they're smaller. They have fewer resources. Their challenges are different. You're building 10 games a day. Your problems are way different than, you know, We built hundreds of games a day. So, you know. Yeah. I think in particular, Mr. Zombie Yeti needs to step it up. He needs to try a little bit harder, I think. Love you, Jerry Boy. Dial back on that guy. You know, you got to dial back on that guy. Yeah. What happens is everybody raises their hands and everybody says, Oh, it's Zombie Yeti. It didn't help when the licensors discovered him. It didn't help. I was like, oh, man. Now I've got the licensor calling asking for the artist. Wow. Now, do you ever get people from outside of Stern who want him for non-pinball-related products that they want to outsource him for? I think so. I think that, you know, I think if it's not pinball-related, he's allowed to do it. So I don't know. You know, I think he's got gig poster relationships with a lot of the bands and stuff. Well, you guys do those cool stuff with NECA, those little sort of gift boxes with the turtles and Elvira. They leverage his artwork. We've done some fun stuff a couple of times with that relationship, right, with the NECA relationship. Thank you so much, George. We really appreciate you coming on. We only do this once a year, so thank you for doing this. Yes. I love you guys. I have a fun time when I talk to you, and I think you guys ask intelligent questions. And, you know, I try really hard to take the hard ones along with the softballs.
    124:20
    We appreciate your honesty. I hope people understand. And I want the best for the community, and I want the best for the company. And we bust our ass to do that. We really do. Yeah, absolutely. And don't be surprised if we talk to you more than once a year. Just call me. I mean, right? Just reach out, and we'll do it whenever you want. I start Franchi's Pinball Dinner Party. It's a one-on-one conversation, no editing, and it really doesn't even have to be about pinball. Does it take place at Franchetti's? order Pianti, nice rigatoni vodka a nice Pianti classical over at Franchetti's some garlic bread you know, am I making you hungry yet? yes, look at me, it doesn't take much George, I hope you feel better man you need to grow back the Gomez flow I need the hockey hair back you know, it's funny so my sister, one of my sisters found some actual photographs. Oh, it's going to be good. Like this, right? So she finds this and she sends it to me. I don't know if you guys can see this. Oh my gosh. Look at the hair. There's the flow. That is amazing, George.
    125:34
    I mean, you were pretty badass in that picture. I need to put that on the show. I was going to take a picture. Look at his hair. Oh, wow.
    125:46
    I feel like you should have a guitar in the passenger seat. something. Well, thank you so much, George. Thanks, George. Been fun. Have a good day. All right. You too, buddy. Thanks.
    126:00
    Another great interview with George Gomez. He is always a great person to have on the show. This was awesome, guys. It was a full year's worth of interviews into one giant podcast. I love catching up with everyone and meeting some new friends of the show like David Van Ness and Barry Dreesen. Thanks to guys like Jason Knapp and Colin Alzheimer who report on Pinball every day and have shown us and our show so much love. Thanks to the listeners for supporting the show and giving us such great feedback. We love that you come and hang out with us for a few hours this year, and of course, you know, hopefully we'll be back in 2025 to do this all again. And a special thank you to all of the guests who came on and gave us such candid interviews. Yes, guests like the wonderful Jack Guarneri of Jersey Jack Pinball, George Gomez of Stern Pinball, David Van Ness of Barrels of Fun, David Fix of American Pinball, Bug Emery of Spooky Pinball, Barry Dreesen of Dutch Pinball, and Josh Sharp of Play Mechanics. Thanks so much for making this show so special and being so candid. This has been great, guys. And seeing you guys, even though it's on camera, is fantastic. I know people listening can't see him, but you probably wouldn't want to anyway.
    127:03
    It's just so great getting the gang back together and doing this again. I miss you guys at Pentastic, and this is the next best thing. So, you know, if you ever want to decide, you're like, hey, let's flip one in there before 2025. I'll be around. You know the ticket, right, to doing another show before the end of this year? You make me edit. No.
    127:20
    It goes something like this. Um, Mrs. Payne, can we marry your husband? Listen, how do you like that? All right, we'll see you next time. You know it.
    127:32
    No, you've got a lovely family there. You've got to spend time with them. I'm excited to listen to Franchise Dinner Party and actually not have to write a long thesis of questions and, you know, not make my kids game because we have to podcast. But I definitely am excited to hear some Franchise Magic in the coming weeks with your show. So tell us more about it. What's coming? Yeah, I'm starting Franchise Pinball Dinner Party, which is a conversational podcast. It's not an interview. It's more of a chat. Getting to know different pinball people. It could be a maker. It could be a tournament player. And you'll enjoy my first guest, actually. My first guest is a doozy. I know he's one of your favorites, Christian. Mr. Joe Camenco. No! Joe Camenco. That's right. Joey K is coming on and Joe has no filters he's a lot like me but instead of me just like throwing out dick and fart jokes he throws out secret pinball info that he wants to share with the world so we're going to see what he wants to share with me so that should be fun that's guest number one I need you to throw in a Harry Potter reference somehow just get him going on Harry Potter and let's see where that goes I can do that and we'll sniff around the back of the future back door as well and see what's going on there but uh yeah so i'm excited about that it doesn't have you guys in it but uh it's the next best thing i guess but uh yeah this has been a blast and thanks to all you guys for coming out and uh giving us a listen after a year appreciate it and uh to all you podcasters out there who are keeping the torch lit we listen to you guys all the time we know what's involved in doing this thing on a regular basis and we had to bail we had to bail because we couldn't do it but bless you guys for doing it. We listen to you all and we appreciate what you guys do. We appreciate your efforts. It's a big job and we really do appreciate all the shows out there that are doing such an awesome job at keeping us all informed and entertaining. And also, I did want to say, we couldn't get everyone we wanted on the show. There's still plenty of pinball companies out there. We're lucky to be in a time right now where there are a million of them. So we can't wait to see what's coming from Pedretti, from Multimorphic this year, Turner Pinball. Yeah, hopefully in 2025 we might be able to get some of those guys on as well. Pinball is in such a good place right now. Yeah, absolutely. Pinball Brothers. Yeah, just reach out to us, guys. I don't have contacts for everybody, so if you want to be on the next show and you remember, come December 2024, you're like, hey, I want to get on a year end, reach out to us, and we will be happy to have you on. So that's going to do it for us at the super awesome Pinball Studios. On behalf of my podcast brothers, Christian Lionel, also known as Dr. Penn, and Jeff Parsons, also known as Jeff Parsons, my name is Mr. Franchi. We'll see you guys later. See you guys. Bye-bye.
    130:34
    Oh, really good show. You forgot the most important thing about the last year. It's that you peckerheads gave our ears a rest. Thanks a lot, stupid asshole pinball show. It's a real treat once again to hear Christopher Sucky jerk Parsons and that son of a bitch who keeps Mrs. Pinn hostage. How could you, Dr. Prick? Now if you three would do what you do best and fuck off.
    131:02
    Pinball's cool.