Episode 82 - Pinball Shows

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·43m 39s·analyzed·May 12, 2025

Buzzsprout-17095907

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Wedgehead hosts share pinball show tips emphasizing community, respect, and managing expectations.

Summary

Alan and Alex from Wedgehead Pinball Podcast discuss pinball shows—conventions where collectors and enthusiasts gather to play machines, buy/sell, attend seminars, and meet industry figures. They share experiences from multiple shows (Midwest Gaming Classic, Northwest Pinball Arcade Show, Texas Pinball Festival, Chicago Expo, Pintastic) and offer practical tips for maximizing the experience: attend with friends, don't stress about tournaments, respect designers' time, and think twice about long lines for new games.

Key Claims

Pinball shows are heavily influenced by their central organizer's personal taste and collection—if they prefer a certain era, that era dominates the show's atmosphere and guest lineup.
high confidence · Alan notes Rob Burke brings old EM games and books old EM industry speakers because he's into that era; the organizer's taste directly shapes which games and guests appear.
Allentown, Pennsylvania is unique among pinball shows as a huge swap meet and parts market, contrasting with most shows where buying/selling is secondary to gameplay and seeing new releases.
medium confidence · Alex mentions 'I've heard is allentown in pennsylvania supposedly that is a huge swap meet in a place where people buy and sell a lot of games and lots of parts and stuff that's the main focus of that show.'
Yukon (rare Williams EM, ~900 units made) is an underrated, fast-playing game that Alex discovered and fell in love with at Pintastic, despite rarely hearing positive discussion about it.
high confidence · Alan describes playing Yukon at Pintastic: 'this is fun as shit. It's snappy as hell. It's fast as fuck' and notes it has '900 of them' made and 'little two inch flippers.'
Community builder David brought his restored Aztec (EM) from the Adirondacks to Pintastic in pristine playable condition, representing the best of what pinball shows offer when collectors share their machines.
high confidence · Alex praises David's Aztec: 'he went through and rebuilt that whole game and that thing was playing pristine again' and drove 'down from his home in the adirondacks to this show just for people to play it.'
Randy Martinez (Stern artist) was confronted at Northwest Pinball Arcade Show by an attendee demanding to know why guns were removed from John Wick artwork—a negative interaction the hosts view as embarrassing to the hobby.
high confidence · Alex describes the incident: 'a guy run over to the mic...He's like, where are the guns? There's no guns. Where are the guns? Why'd you take the guns off of John Wick?' Randy responded professionally despite the confrontation.
At Texas Pinball Festival, attendees complained to the Munsters design team about long segmented standup targets (vs. individual targets), accusing them of cost-cutting, when the feature was an intentional design choice.

Notable Quotes

“The whole point is how to get the most out of it and i have a very strong memory of drinking uh parking lot beers with an unnamed uh you know another pinball buddy of ours just a middle-aged rapscallion drinking drinking beer smashing bottles in the fucking parking lot and that was a good time”
Alex @ ~15:00 — Illustrates that the best memories at shows often come from social interaction and off-show activities rather than the formal event itself.
“What you'll see at shows is very interesting because sometimes you'll see very very very cosmetically beautiful perfect games that play or like dog shit yeah and then you'll find a game that his aztec was in good looking original shape right because they don't make reproduction play fields for ems”
Alex @ ~22:00 — Points out the aesthetic vs. playability tension at shows; rare EMs like Aztec are valued for originality and playability, not cosmetic perfection.
“it's like we got out there there were like the pops guys we talked to we did have like zoe who's an old friend or whatever someone we knew from here but it just felt like a party like coming out and being like we kind of know each other but now we actually going to hang out and play pinball”
Alex @ ~26:00 — Captures the social magic of pinball shows—online friendships become in-person parties.
“where are the guns? There's no guns. Where are the guns? Why'd you take the guns off of John Wick? And then Randy has to deal with that shit. It's just, it's fucking embarrassing, dude.”
Alex @ ~40:00 — Criticizes confrontational questioning at Q&A sessions; the host views this as disrespectful to designers who made intentional creative choices based on licensing constraints.
“I hope Gary Stern fucking dies so we can get a real person to run the company and give us real games”
Overheard attendee (recounted by Alan) @ ~48:00 — Extreme example of toxic fandom Alan witnessed; an attendee wishing death on Gary Stern over a design choice (standup target layout) on Munsters, which Alan calls absurd and embarrassing.
“Pat Lawler said in an old documentary, I thought it was the best thing. He was just like, listen, we're game designers. We're creatives. We're trying every single time. We're trying to make the most fun game that we possibly can. We don't always hit the mark.”

Entities

WedgeheadorganizationAlanpersonAlex the WaterboypersonPintasticevent Rob Burkeperson Texas Pinball FestivaleventChicago Pinball ExpoeventNorthwest Pinball Arcade Showevent

Signals

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community_signal: Toxic fan behavior at shows includes confronting designers over perceived slights, with examples of extreme criticism (wishing death on Gary Stern) and entitled demands about design choices.
high · Multiple incidents: John Wick guns confrontation with Randy Martinez; Munsters standup target complaints; Gary Stern death wish; Ghostbusters complaints to Dwight Sullivan.
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community_signal: Wedgehead hosts actively attend and participate in major pinball shows; using listener donations to fund travel and attending Pintastic demonstrates strong community integration.
high · Alan mentions 'That trip was primarily funded by the listeners' for Pintastic; previous trip to Boston was also listener-funded via Ko-fi coffee fundraiser.
?
event_signal: Major pinball shows (Pintastic, Texas Pinball Festival, Chicago Expo) serve as social hubs where online friendships become in-person communities; 'Pops crew' and other listener groups gather.
high · Alex describes Pintastic as feeling 'like a party' with online friends; mentions meeting 'the Pops crew' and 'Mitch' and other 'friendly fans we've met.'
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sentiment_shift: Significant tension between respectful fans and entitled critics at shows; hosts express frustration with toxic behavior during Q&A sessions (John Wick guns incident, Ghostbusters complaints, Munsters standup target criticism).
high · Randy Martinez forced to defend design choice; attendee wished death on Gary Stern over a minor design detail; multiple examples of fans confronting designers disrespectfully.
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design_philosophy: Designer decision-making at shows often misinterpreted by fans as cost-cutting; hosts advocate for trusting designer intent and respecting creative choices.

Topics

Pinball show culture and communityprimarySocial dynamics and etiquette at pinball eventsprimaryRare and vintage EM machines (Yukon, Aztec)secondaryDesigner-fan interactions and respectprimaryTournament vs. casual play at showssecondaryIndustry seminars and Q&A sessionssecondaryTravel and trip planning for showssecondaryToxic fandom and entitled criticismsecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.78)— Hosts express genuine love for pinball shows and the community, with enthusiasm for shared experiences. However, significant frustration with entitled, disrespectful fans who confront designers—particularly the standup target complaint and the John Wick guns incident. Overall tone is warm and encouraging toward newer attendees, with strong emphasis on respect and community building. Minor negativity around crowds and logistical hassles at large shows.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.131

0:00

Thank you very much. Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. My name is Alan, your host of this show, as always, one of the owners of Wedgehead, a pinball bar in Portland, Oregon. Joining the basement studio of my trusty co-host, Alex the Waterboy. How are you? I'm doing pretty good. You know, I'm always doing good, but I'm doing especially good because it's my turn to plug our coffee fundraiser on coffee.com slash Wedgehead podcast. Link in the show notes. If you like the show, you'd like to support us, throw us a few bones, support our upcoming trip to Colorado. we're going to visit our previous guest AJ his rad spot in Pueblo the famous Lions Arcade whatever else we can find in between maybe that crazy nickel arcade that has all the games outdoors in Manitou Springs have you ever seen that place? No It's fucking insane the pins are mostly inside but it has just like Street Fighter 2 it's just like sitting out in the rain it's insane we really appreciate the support for the show you guys have been awesome you got us over to Boston that's going to kind of come up in this episode Alan works really hard on lining up guests writing outlines editing this show so you have a fresh episode every Monday. And I work very hard on these introductions.

2:00

Equal parts effort. Yeah, this is an equal partnership. So anyway, yeah, coffee.com slash Wedgehead podcast. It's a link in the show notes. We really appreciate it, genuinely. With that out of the way, today's topic is pinball shows. We recently made a trip to the East Coast and attended Pintastic. That trip was primarily funded by the listeners, and we had a great time, right? Did you have a good time? Very good time. Yeah. I've had a lot of people already ask if we're going to do an episode about a trip, about the trip, you know, because, like, everybody kind of paid for us to go on this trip. And everyone's like, how was it? What do you do an episode? And the answer is no, because we don't want to do an episode that's only interesting to people that know us personally. Our goal with this podcast is for every episode, maybe with the exception of the anniversary Q&A, we want them to stand on its own merits. In that spirit, we're instead going to focus on the more broad and widely interesting topic of pinball shows themselves, specifically how to get the most out of a pinball show. If you do want to hear specifics from that Boston trip, donate to our Ko-fi account, join the Discord where we bullshit and give all of our honest feedback on stuff. You know, we'll get into all the details in there. Unfiltered, uncut, raw and uncut. Oh, yeah. Waterboy after dark, dude, in the Discord. In the Discord. The Discord's been pretty fun lately, honestly. It has been very fun. It's like full of people. It's a little too distracting. First things first, what the hell is a pinball show? Some of you listening may not realize pinball shows are a thing or you've never experienced one. Alan, you want to explain what a pinball show is? Certainly, Waterboy, I'd be happy to. A pinball show, convention, or simply con, is exactly what all niche and super dork hobbies have in common. It's a gathering from all the nerds in the region, and sometimes way outside the region, like us going to Pintastic, to come in and completely take over a corporate chain hotel in the far-reaching suburbs of a city, typically over a long weekend. Collectors and vendors will bring machines to the show for everyone to play, and folks will be there selling their junk mods and stuff there too. At the big shows, there will be typically a long tournament or series of tournaments, as well as guest speakers giving seminars throughout. Most often, these are old industry folks telling their stories from making these games. it's a great place to either play a lot of pinball or spend a lot of time waiting in line to play a very small amount of pinball sort of choose your own adventure there you can do either at a pinball show you know a lot of these shows are held up by some very one big collector you know like expo rob burke the guy that runs the show brings a ton of games yeah that's what i kind of noticed just like thinking about the shows is that a lot of them have like one central figure that started and is kind of the glue and will really flesh out the lineup there with his personal collection. And that person, whoever is kind of the backbone of the show, really influences the feel and vibe of the show. I mean, significantly. Like, if they're into one era of games, you're going to see that era of games, like, in the spotlight. Those guests from that era of games, like Rob Burke, does a good job getting, like, old EM guys to talk at Expo. Because he's into old EMs. Yeah. Oh, totally. It's funny because, like, when I got into the hobby and I heard about pinball shows, I was immediately like, oh, yeah, that makes sense because my dad's a model railroader and model railroaders have their own shows all the time everywhere. The concept not foreign to me at all. The one thing that's different about the other conventions like video game shows, model railroad shows, whatever else I've attended in the past, is that buying and selling is present at pinball shows. But it's not the emphasis. The emphasis for a lot of people anyway is really coming to like the important part is coming to see new games. that's not like other hobbies right i think the exception that i've heard is allentown in pennsylvania supposedly that is a huge swap meet in a place where people buy and sell a lot of games and lots of parts and stuff that's the main focus of that show neither one of us has been to the allentown show yeah sounds rad but unfortunately we live across the country so even if we went we couldn't really bring that much home we'd have to drive back and be like let's yeah like let's bring a toyota sienna and we're bringing a game back that'd be sick that's when we should maybe we should raise a coffee fundraiser for that send us to allentown we'll buy a game dude that'd be rad and then we get a road trip back that'd be pretty that'd be there's a concept there that's what we're doing next year i know allentown's coming up soon so it's like we would need to plan this that'd be pretty hilarious we could hit some spots on the way back yeah that'd be pretty rad legs there anyway let's uh let's first of all you know establish some credibility here and talk about what shows we've attended and what our quick impressions of them are. My first show that I went to was Midwest Gaming Classic, actually. I happen to be in town for work at the time. It's in Milwaukee. And I caught the last day just kind of by accident. I'm going to say, like, coming into that blind, just walking in the last day, it is overwhelming. Like, there's a lot of shit there. That one specifically, it's on multiple floors of Convention Center. There's all kinds of classic games. There's, like, a huge buy-sell trade area. And then there's pinball in its own room and everything so it's a lot to come into i spent the bulk of my time at that one was the first time being at a show so first time seeing homebrews and most of the day i was there i was just playing the homebrews because i was just enamored with like sonic spinball and there was an undertale game it was rad and like talking to ryan mcquade there that was very very cool i also remember distinctly it was right after jack dangerous first stern came out his home pin jurassic park which you obviously can't play on location anywhere so it was a chance to play that it was It was cool. It was definitely made a good first impression, but I remember being like, well, this is like a lot. Like I would want more time than half a day at one for sure. After that, I attended the Northwest Pinball Arcade Show. That's our local show. Yeah, it's up in Tacoma. Yeah, it's the Pacific Northwest Show. Yeah, I went with a friend, my buddy Jay. We got a hotel. I started to understand that it's less about the games, more about the people you see at the show. and that's we're going to talk about this a little bit more into the episode because the whole point is how to get the most out of it and i have a very strong memory of drinking uh parking lot beers with an unnamed uh you know another pinball buddy of ours just a middle-aged rapscallion drinking beer smashing bottles in the fucking parking lot and that was a good time that was it was again it was like i don't even really remember too much of the show that year i just remember like the shit we got into after the show closed and you know bumming around Tacoma and going and play pinball there another one that's just kind of worth shouting out is Portland Retro Gaming Show it's primarily retro video games they do have a growing pinball presence last year they actually had Jack Danger come out to show off X-Men which was brand new at the time I think we were the first show to get those yeah yeah it was like the Portland Retro which was wild first public first time the game was in public yeah and it's not a pinball show so it was very cool that they had that presence there it's not a huge pinball show but it is the local local show right that's in town and i want to just say there's like there's no show like your local show because you go there and you're just stumbling into all your buddies you don't have to plan anything you don't have to get a hotel room if you have one in your area regardless of what it's like you really should go if it's like in your go once at least 100 get down there it helps your local scene if you can volunteer if you can volunteer a game if you can volunteer effort so yeah that's just something to keep in mind and then most recently fantastic which we're going to kind of get into in a little bit what have you been to alan uh i've also been to the northwestern arcade show i've only been once to the tacoma show that was 2011 i remember that because tron legacy was the brand new release that's old as hell dude i hadn't graduated high school i know dude i told you i've been playing football a long time that's crazy i didn't realize you went to the show that for tron legacy i I remember they were raffling off a brand new Tron Legacy. Like you could buy raffle tickets, you know, for like whatever, like 100 bucks a piece or whatever it was. Took my now wife. We had an atrocious visit to Seattle for the first time. The first time we had ever been to Seattle. And now I've been a bunch of times since and have many, many great times. So, okay. But that first one was just disaster. You know, like every restaurant we went to sucked. Everything we did sucked. we just ran in bad luck you know like that's because you're spending your time in seattle and not in god's country tacoma dude fair enough well that was that was funny because it was actually in seattle that time oh i didn't realize it's migrated okay it was in seattle in 2011 and the reason why i know that is my wife and i caught the train up there we were up there we were checking in the hotel and we were both early 20s so maybe like 21 22 we were checking the hotel everyone we ran into like oh are you guys here for the u2 concert like the fuck you too you're like dude look at us do we look like we here for you too yeah we here for cool stuff like pinball come on you haven heard john borg just put out a new game Tron Legacy We cool youths Like listen to fucking U2 But then I also went with Roadsy as our first business trip We went in 2019 as Wedgehead. We went to the Texas Pinball Fest, which was the biggest show at the time. I think it's changed a little bit in the last couple years I've heard. Yeah, I'm not sure. The guy running it is no longer running it, or the guy that started it. Whatever. but I'm sure it's still a very large show. It's one of the ones that people talk about. You wrote in my notes for me that I hated it. I didn't hate it. I had a good time, but it's, it's a lot. And we'll talk about it more in the episode. I went to Chicago pinball expo this last year, gave a seminar. You also wrote, hated it a little bit less because of Johnny crap. And my friend, Isaac, I loved hanging out with Johnny crap and Isaac always. Yeah. So we had a good time. We had a great time in Chicago because that's out again. Way out in the suburbs. Yeah. So we had to drive to Schaumburg and back because we stayed in Chicago. And we had a shitload of fun in Chicago. And then we were out at the show. And then you're like, oh, I got to get on the bus and get out to this, like, suburb. We jumped in our rental Jeep Wrangler. Oh, nice. Yeah, like, it was, again, the trip is the fun part. All the extra stuff is fun, too. So it's not just at the show, the pinball events that are fun. And then we were just at Pintastic. Again, you wrote, hated it maybe even less because of the Pops crew and Mitch and all the friendly fans we've met. Yeah, we had a great time at Pentastic. Yeah. I think we should probably talk just a little bit about it in this episode. Well, it's kind of sprinkled throughout because we're going to get into some hot Alex top tips, you know? Oh, yeah. Top tips are back. Yeah, the listeners love Alex's top tips. And so I decided that this is what we're going to build the episode around is my top tips on how to enjoy a pinball show. Oh, it's a registered trademark. copyright got the copyright symbol on there no i don't want another podcast being like oh these are fucking like these are our top Daniel's top tips go fuck yourself these are top Alex's top tips dude often imitate and never replicated top tip number one have friends oh shit yeah that's aggressive that's a good tip though right you want to make plans to attend with a friend if you can experiencing everything good and bad with a buddy makes it much more enjoyable Sharing your finds with someone is great. What's a good example of this? Pintastic in particular, I fell in love with a game called Yukon. It's a rare Williams EM. It's a single player, right? It's a little narrowhead Williams. They only made like, I think like 900 of them. It's a game I've never heard anyone talk about, or at least not positively. Because it's got in lanes, it's got slings, but it's got little two inch flippers. It's got some reels in the... There's another game called Klondike that has similar art, but it's not the same layout. Klondike's not good. In Klondike, there's way more Klondikes than there are Yukons. So we were playing this Yukon game, and I walked up to it, and I was immediately like, this is fun as shit. It's snappy as hell. It's fast as fuck. Like, it was so fast. I just had a blast. I was like, I just want to play that game over and over and over again. And I kept meeting some fans at the show, and they were like, you want to go play some games? And it was in the Bells and Chimes room. and we i was like have you played the yukon in the bells room like let's go play that yukon because that game rips the other game i remember specifically was another fan and listener of the show david brought his aztec that aztec was sick that aztec was sick he went through and rebuilt that whole game and that thing was playing pristine again one of those things where what you'll see at shows is very interesting because sometimes you'll see very very very cosmetically beautiful perfect games that play or like dog shit yeah and then you'll find a game that his aztec was in good looking original shape right because they don't make reproduction play fields for ems and stuff so it was in good cosmetic shape but it wasn't like this candy covered bullshit like yeah yeah and it was rad though because you it's a survivor dude and you stepped up to it and like he put a lot of love into this game and then he drove it down from his home in the adirondacks to this show just for people to play it and he did a hell of a job that's the best part of pinball shows is when guys do that when people do that when people bring their best that's the best part of shows oh for sure going back to the top tip of having friends i love going off and exploring and finding stuff and then getting like share that with other people it feels like a little treasure hunt yeah it's definitely more fun to me than if you're by yourself you still get that treasure hunt by yourself but it's sick like sharing that enthusiasm with someone else and being like dude did you play this Yukon like you probably didn't because it's shoved in some little corner it doesn't look great or whatever yeah but you gotta play this thing and so I love that part of like having buddies there with you another thing I wanted to say specifically on the subject of friends and having them that online friends can be cool as hell this is something I was exposed to throughout my life again through my dad because he would meet up with his car forum friends regularly you know guys that he just knew because of a common interest or whatever back in the early 2000s and every time you get together with like online friends if it's someone you've been chatting with online when you get together it just like feels like a party that was very much how pintastic felt it's like we got out there there were like the pops guys we talked to we did have like zoe who's an old friend or whatever someone we knew from here but it just felt like a party like coming out and being like we kind of know each other but now we actually going to hang out and play pinball. So it's great to try to establish like some sort of plan like that with long distance friends beforehand. If you bump into somebody you kind of know and it's awkward, just hop on a game together. That's the nice part about pinball. You're standing next to a pinball machine probably just press start. Yeah. They're all on free play. So just press start. Just fucking go talk while you're playing. It'll immediately make it less awkward if you kind of know the person and you'll immediately kind of like get a better idea of what they're about don't do the like oh hey how's it going like okay see you later kind of thing you get a lot of interactions like that when you like run into people you kind of know but that doesn't really like build relationships at all it's okay yeah if you're like if you have any reason to talk to this person just go hit start on a game like everybody knows i wrote it in here the real high scores are the friends we make along the way right alan that's true tip number two you like this one you want to read it yeah don't stress tournaments i mean if tournaments are your jam and you love competing you know with fresh blood from all over by all means sign up you are already going to sign up this is an advice for you yeah like if you're a tournament player absolutely go to a show because you can get a lot of whopper points playing at that tournament because it's going to be worth a shitload of points but don't let it ruin your weekend if you eat shit in the first round and if you're just attending the show for fun and you don't normally compete don't feel compelled to sign up just because you're there and you can yeah you don't have to tournaments that shows can end up really dominating the whole weekend yep if you're a tournament player you're already gonna do it you don't even need to hear this but if like you kind of play in leagues sometimes you're like maybe i'll play in this big tournament that could take your whole weekend yeah i've seen buddies that it's like they play tournaments every once in a while in portland and then they go to the northwest show and they play that tournament and it just takes them the entire weekend and you're like if that's really what you want to do if all your other buddies play tournaments too or whatever and you're okay standing around by that bank of games for two full days that's cool but just don't feel like you have to just because it's there yeah you're not missing the show experience you're actually getting a much different experience yeah the other thing you say is like check the seminar schedule the seminars could be very educational and worthwhile if they're covering a topic you're interested in like pinball history or homebrew advice or whatever it's also just a nice chance to get away from the crowds and the noise and get off your feet for a minute the talks for me what I love most about the shows is because I'm a nerd it's like the talks from the old industry guys where they always tell funny stories and you can ask them questions you get little tidbits about the development of your favorite games or whatever that's the best I mean that's what we do on the show when we get the industry people right it's like excited about for on the podcast and you're like that's the coolest part about shows is getting to hear those old guys like tell the stories and you get to ask them like oh like if there's something that's been bugging you about a game you can bring it up and what's cool is they'll walk around the show floors if they're at the show they'll walk around the show floors and be like, oh shit, that's Steve Ritchie. Yeah. Oh shit, that's Pat Lawler. You know, like that's pretty fucking cool. Like that's cool in and of itself. You can also, especially if you're really deep into this shit and you recognize all the new programmers and like all the mechanical engineers and shit, a lot of the time those guys will be out too. And it's sweet being able to like go and talk to them just like off on their own. Yeah, I remember I got to meet Dennis Nordman at the Texas Pinball Show that we went to. and it was just cool because i got to tell him for probably the millionth time ever he got a frothing uh whitewater fan i was just like man that's my favorite game of all time i think it's perfect he's like man if i had a nickel every time someone told me that he's like i'd have at least 10 cents but i appreciate it you know like it was just cool to be like i love this game and pick his brain for a little bit and i think they enjoy it too i think it's fun for them to be a celebrity for a weekend because they're just guys like us dude they're just like just working like a job that's what It's got to be kind of a goofy situation for them, especially the ones that are new to it, to suddenly be like thrust into like this celebrity spotlight. Yeah, totally. And kind of related to this subject, if you do attend something with a Q&A session, don't use this as a chance to try and like confront the design team with some stupid internet bullshit. I saw a guy when so at last year's Northwest show, I saw a guy run over to the mic as soon as they asked if anyone had any questions. This guy's fucking knocking chairs over, getting to the mic to ask Stern's artist, Randy Martinez, a question about John Wick that had just come out. And it was this whole thing where he's like, isn't something missing? Is something missing? And Randy's a professional and he's like, um, no, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Even though at this point it was a well, you know, fucking everybody had their YouTube rants already up and everything. And the guy blurts out, he's like, where are the guns? There's no guns. Where are the guns? Why'd you take the guns off of John Wick? And then Randy has to deal with that shit. It's just, it's fucking embarrassing, dude. It's embarrassing to have people like that in the hobby. Please keep it on the internet if you're going to be one of those guys. I mean, better yet, keep it to yourself. Nobody needs to hear your, like, little trivial complaints about, like, the licensor not wanting Keanu Reeves holding guns and artwork. Whatever, man. Yeah. This is not the place to try to get some sick slam dunk on, like, the people that are working for months on these projects. Be nice to the people that design these games. whether or not the newest game or whatever speaks to you. There are other games that do. I always focus on when I talking to the designers and artists and programmers and engineers I always like I want to talk about the games I like I not there to be like hey you made this one game that i thought wasn that good what the fuck dude like why would you do that why would you do that what do you think is going to like you're just making everybody's day worse and it's again just embarrassing to be associated with people like that so don't be one of those guys i definitely saw somebody do that to dwight sullivan at the texas pinball festival that i went to they came up and they had bones to pick about Ghostbusters. And so they were like, we have stuff we want to talk to you, Dwight. And Dwight was very gracious, which was weird. Dude, that's the thing. If I was in his shoes, I would not be. Yeah, it was fucking pound sand, dude. I don't care. Get the fuck out of here. I was like... Yeah. And he's like, I'm going to go back to my computer and I'm going to make it worse. Like, for you. Like, fuck you, dude. Like, you spent a lot of time working on that game. That's what their goal probably is with Insider Connected. They can flag those accounts when you beep in with that account. It loads the shitty rules.

22:45

Dude, it's just funny because, like, man, Pat Lawler said in an old documentary, I thought it was the best thing. He was just like, listen, we're game designers. We're creatives. We're trying every single time. We're trying to make the most fun game that we possibly can. We don't always hit the mark. You know, obviously, like, it comes out and then it has a life of its own. Every game I was making, I was trying to make the best game ever. No one's going and trying to make something bad to like upset you. So it's just like, just remember that. I also remember this is the last thing I'll say on the subject is there's a horrible time where we went to a seminar at Texas Pinball Festival. The newest game was the Munsters. And we sat through a seminar with the design team of the Munsters. And they asked a question about the long standup target instead of being individual targets, long paddle targets. We just, you know, those shots are hard. And like you hit it a couple of times. We just thought it was cool that way. That was our design decision. These guys thought it was like this cost-cutting, like screw-them-over decision, so they wanted to address it. And then they were walking out, and I hear them behind me. Rhodes goes to the bathroom, and they go, did you hear that about the stand-up targets? I can't believe this. I hope Gary Stern fucking dies so we can get a real person to run the company and give us real games. and I turned around and I was like, you're wishing death on an old man who saved pinball and who made a pinball machine, which you don't A, have to buy or play ever if you don't like it, and you're wishing death on an old man over individual segmented stand-up targets or one large stand-up target? Has anyone ever been like, oh, I care passionately about the stand-ups in a row on Toronto? Who gives a shit? My God, dude. Of all the things, cost cut away, man. That's not going to bug me. one bit it was insane so don't be these people because if we're at a show i'm going to remember these interactions forever and i'm going to make fun of you to my friends and now on this podcast it's embarrassing on the subject of respect that brings us to tip number four which is about tagging on to people and respecting their time this isn't really advice on how to enjoy the show more just advice on social awareness in general but the pinball pin or the pinball company employees are typically very friendly like we've been saying they're very polite and they will chat with you But don't glom onto them. Don't like force an awkward like I have to go now by type situation. It's not my place to tell you like like I'm not trying to give you a script or anything to read. But just don't be that person that is like, oh, you're a celebrity. I'm going to just like follow you around. It's just not fun to be in their shoes. At Expo, Johnny Crap and I spent pretty much the whole show together and we were just playing awesome games. And I had the best time and I know he's listening. We love you, Johnny. we can't wait to see you at the Northwest show this year and to get you down to Portland. But it was fun to just play old weird games and talk about art and hang out with him. But I repeatedly told him multiple times because he's a very nice, polite French Canadian. And I was like, hey, man, I'm not here to take up all your time. Like we get split up. Like I did that repeatedly over. And he was like, no, man, I'm having a good time. I was like, OK, I have a strong personality sometimes. So it's like I want to be like this. You know, like I'm excited. and like you're like oh yeah i'll play some of these old spanish ems with alan and then just be like oh now he won't stop he's just making me play all these got leaf games oh god no he's like why are we doing this he's making me play another got leaf yeah so it's like be aware like try to be self-aware yeah give people the out it's really easy to be like overly enthused and all of these guys are very friendly so just give them an out every once in a while is all i'll say i suppose okay tip number five you want this one it's something near and dear to your heart okay this is think twice about the long line. So the other big thing you're going to see at pinball shows, what happens a lot is for a lot of people, the big appeal of pinball shows is the opportunity to play the newest releases before they might otherwise get a chance to like in their local scene. Like they might be from a smallish town. Maybe there's only one pinball spot. Maybe they don't buy every new game or whatever. So a lot of times they take off time to go on a trip and they want to be at a show so they can play all these games. But sometimes those lines are long. Like you might stand an hour line long to play, say, King Kong, a game that your local arcade probably will have on the floor in like four weeks. Right. So it's like, what are you doing at that point? You know, like some things are worth it. Some things are not. This is truly your only opportunity to play a game. And it's something that you're like interested in buying, especially like if you live in a small town, I get waiting in line to play, you know, a Cornerstone Stern release because you're not probably going to have another chance, especially if you're thinking about buying it in the near future. but even like when you start getting into like boutique stuff is it worth spending like a couple hours or whatever because these lines do get absurdly long when they only bring one copy of a game to a show or even if they have three copies but they're set up flat they're set up easy people wait in line people are talking yeah man it's like i said in my intro to this episode you can either go to a pinball show and play a lot of pinball all the time till your heart's content in the main free play room with a bunch of games released from the last 50 or 60 years, or you can wait in line to play very, very small amounts of pinball, and kind of the choice is yours. Right. You know, it's up to you. Like, do you really, really, really want to play? And we waited in line at Pintastic. We waited in line to play Ninja Eclipse because we wanted to put some time on it. Yeah, and I don't know the next time or any time I'll see a Ninja Eclipse. And you know what? Worth it. We waited in line again. It was fun. in we did now to be fair this wasn't a massive line but we waited probably 15 minutes at least a couple times to play ninja eclipse yeah and so some things are worth it like if you see that like tony hawk homebrew and it's got a big line it's probably worth it because when the fuck else are you literally one of one you got to play some of those you see people lining up like six deep to play a jaws le and you're like what are you doing man this is your weekend why would you do this it plays the same as a premium which you know you probably can find one somewhere else that's always crazy to me because a lot of the time it's like you could just drive even if you live in a small town you could just be visiting an arcade in a large town on a random weekend and play a lot more of those games yeah just without the huge lines so just think critically about that is all i'll say and even some of the rare ones you want to wait in line to play abba okay yeah you might wait in line and be disappointed. Yeah, perhaps with ABBA you might be disappointed.

31:33

This is also part of why I say think twice about that line. A show environment is a very poor place to judge a game. But you know what has simple rules, Alan? You know what has a sound package that cuts through even the noisiest of crowds? Ball times that allow for quick games of friends and never has a line to play it? The entire EM section. Here it is. here it is ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ems which for any new listeners means an electromechanical game games made prior to like 1976 ems absolutely thrive in a show setting and they go underappreciated by the vast vast majority of showgoers you can hop on multiplayer games with friends or strangers you're not stuck waiting 10 minutes between balls if someone goes on a heater if you don't know what to do you can read the four line rule card or better yet just read the play field, it'll say 500 or 5,000 if lit. It's awesome. Very self-explanatory. You'll be getting virtually the same experience playing an EM at a show as you would playing it at home So this is an awesome opportunity to play as many EMs as you can and start making a list of which games to try to find for sale in the future and i mean that like honestly when you play like like i got my grand prix here and i play the shit out of this game it not like a em is a bad game to have at home it's just if you play a grand prix at the show assuming it's playing snappy playing quick or whatever you're getting the same experience as you would playing it in my basement yes like that game will be just as fun in a crowded hall full of people as it will be in home whereas if you play let's say evil dead for example i've heard that evil dead has really good call outs performed by bruce campbell i played three games of evil dead at pentastic i couldn't hear shit dude and hear shit all i could think about was how it shot which that so you're only judging how it shoots i don't need to get into that it's but i'm just saying you're losing out on a lot of that game's experience by playing in that environment yeah you don't know the rule set going in i mean i have no fucking idea what to do and so you're just shooting blinky lights you're not getting a lot of feedback because you can't hear the awesome sound calls and the games are typically set very flat very easy because i think the show organizers are like they're waiting in line so the game's got to be easy because they can't wait in line and then it goes gets over fast but the problem is well then it just makes a longer line you know because the line takes longer one good player up there with the game set at five degrees in no till and they're going to be playing that thing for 45 minutes again be careful what you're doing we both played evil dead i i waited in line to play two games of it i'm withholding my judgment on evil dead until i can play it in a different environment where i can hear the game the game could be set up faster maybe a little bit meaner maybe i could see the modes i'm a big evil dead the franchise fan i really want to love this game and even bringing that into it it was still like this experience was confusing and weird we played i played a few games of evil dead did not make a strong impression on me one way or the other i played a few games of yukon i want to buy a yukon i know yeah dude that's the thing you're like and so really anybody listening to this if you're going to a pinball show for the love of god go spend time in that em section just hop down the line you can play them all quick so you can try everything but eventually you'll find something if you like you're drawn to classic games at all you'll find something that suddenly clicks and you go holy shit that's the best game of all time then you'll look up the pin side average price you go holy shit this thing's only worth 700 and then you'll begin the two-year process of trying to find trying to find one for sale and then you're part of the country but that being said it's a blast it's genuinely the best part of every pinball show is playing the ems it's kind of like the key to the fucking the wardrobe and then you open it up and you don't realize that past the fucking close is the door to fucking narnia like sometimes Yeah, you're sitting there, you're looking at the fur coats, dude. You don't realize that EMs aren't just dusty old fur coats full of mothballs. You're like, oh, there's a whole world of wonder behind them. And, like, it takes one EM and a great chance to do that. Is that a show? Because EMs are not common to see on location. And a lot of these EM, the EM guys that are different from the other guys is that a lot of EM guys, when they bring their game out, a lot of the EM guys bring a pretty good example of an EM most of the time. Part of this tip is understanding that setup and maintenance can greatly affect how games play. We've done a whole episode about setup specifically. But a sleepy copy of a game will very rarely be fun. If you play something that's floaty or it's got real weak flippers or just dead pops or whatever, tired rubber, a shitty game is not going to be fun. So if your first and only time playing a game is at a show and you don't like it, try not to judge it too negatively. That's what we're doing with Evil Dead right now. Because it didn't make a strong positive impression on either of us at the show. But both of us are excited to play it again, I know. Yeah, don't judge a game too negatively based off an experience at a show. And if you're bringing a game to a show, please consider a flipper rebuild if you can't remember the last time you did one. Please, God, for the love of God. Bringing a poor playing field. Wax your game. Clean your play field. Like, make that game fast as possible because it's going to get hammered over the weekend. Bringing a bad example of a game or, worse yet, a broken copy of a game to a show does not help the hobby. it just convinces people that old games suck when they definitely do not yes so again if you're bringing a game to the show just make sure it's working right alex is saying this because unfortunately this is an all too common occurrence at shows because typically if you bring a game to the show you get free admission to that show yep so sometimes guys will do this out of bad faith they'll bring a known unworking old crappy game and just plop it on its legs and turn it on there she is like they haven't played it at home in six months but now it's just on free play at the whole show because they wanted the you know 150 ticket for free and that's a bummer man don't do that it's bad i will say to your em point our buddy miggy was there uh local super into pinball that guy was got to be a junkie all weekend and just play from when they opened at 10 a.m until when they closed it to 2 a.m and just played all these games of pinball and he said that that show was even though he comes into wet chat even though we have ems he's like i never really played those i didn't see how they would be fun he got into ems at the show dude he's like he's like oh ems are fun and we're like yeah dude the best part man that was like the raddest part of the northwest show is i can't remember who what collector it is that brings a huge collection of wood rails out but like if you go to the tacoma show there will be a really solid lineup of very nice wood rails that are playing great there. And you're like, you don't have an opportunity to play these things ever. There's copies of the games there. That's true rarity. It's crazy because people will line up to play a Jaws LE that plays the exact same as the premium that there's, you know, five of on location in Portland or whatever. They'll be lining up for that. But there will be a wood rail there that's a survivor that's 60 years old and is just an immaculate shape playing beautifully. And there will maybe be one person playing it that you have to wait for. Half the time those games are empty. So again, please, please, please spend time in the EM section of the show. That's the number one top tip. You heard it here. Alex, top tip. The biggest one is to not miss the EM section if you go to a show. I do think that it's weird because you're in a situation. It's similar to like a mega location, right? You go to a show. They're going to have a big free play for. They're going to have lots of games. It's the same thing when you go to a mega location that has 100, 200, 300 pinball machines in one spot. It's overwhelming. You have so many choices. It's hard. Some games, like the modern games they're making, and I would say modern being like even from the 90s, like 90s through today, it starts to get – those games are best appreciated when you have time and you can hear them and you can kind of get into the rule set and you can play them multiple times. You can play through the modes, try to get wizard mode. When you walk up cold, especially if you walk up cold and then wait in line and then you play one game and you can't hear it and the game's flat, that's not the time to play this. you know like i mean still go give it a try but like dude every time i play a new game at a show i always leave flat like i always leave just underwhelming experience and uh i don't think it's because the games are bad it's just sort of like it's a bad environment it's a bad environment the the difference is is if you already know you love a game and you've played it a bunch before and then you find it at a show and it's playing well then you can have a good time because you're bringing in that knowledge yeah but the brand new games it's hard to bring that knowledge with you i mean you could watch a stream beforehand but damn you're like yeah it's hard man you kind of have to sell yourself on them whereas the ems they sell themselves yeah dude especially the ems that have cool little gimmicks like that apollo or whatever you're trying to get all games all the captain balls over so many good ones there yeah no for sure yeah that's it for alex's top tips i really do think that the biggest two of all that list is the ems and making sure you spend time with friends if you can. Oh, go with the friends. The best part of our trip was coming out to New England and meeting all of you, all the great listeners. You guys have a fantastic scene in Boston in particular. I want to thank you to Ty of Pops, who's been on the show multiple times, and Daniel. Ty picked us up from the airport, catered us around, and took us to the show. I was only going to die a few times in the back of the jet. You guys have a great scene out there, and everyone that plays at their local scenes. I hope you guys know how special your seen as in Boston. Truly, my favorite part of the show was getting to go to the locations afterwards in Boston and actually play location pinball, which is what I always care about. My favorite part was meeting the people, but I guess that's the difference between us. Hey, man, I like being the people, but it was a good time to play pinball with the people. And you can do that at the show, but you can also do that on location, which is the number one goal of this show. We are a location pinball podcast. But in the spirit of this episode, if you haven't been to a pinball show, look around. There's probably one pretty close to you, probably in your state. Probably within driving distance. And you should plan a trip to one because it's a good time. They are fun if you make them fun. They are shitty if you want them to be shitty. Yeah, it's like anything. It's what you make it. It is what you make it. So go out and have a good time. We want to thank you to the patrons again for bringing us to that show. We had an awesome time. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you want to hear more about our trip or you want to judge us or whatever, all you patrons, you should have a link to the Discord. If you haven't joined up already, if you donated and you didn't get a link, just contact us. We'll give you a link to the Discord. We'd love to talk about our experience there. For all the listeners out there, go find a local show, buy some tickets, plan a trip, take some days off of work, or go on the weekend. Enjoy yourself. Play some pinball. Play some EMs. Yeah, dude. Hell yeah. And as always, can I close this one off because it's an Alex episode? Nice, nice. So, yeah, until next time, good luck. Don't suck. Hit the tagline.