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Episode 88 - Interview with Terry DeZwarte 6-1-15

For Amusement Only EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·53m 50s·analyzed·Jun 7, 2015
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Day One Pinball's Terry DeZwarte on designing & producing the limited-run Scorgasm Master bagatelle remake.

Summary

Terry DeZwarte of Day One Pinball and Pinball Life discusses the design, engineering, and production of Scorgasm Master, a modern reimagining of the 1930s bagatelle game Contact Master. The interview covers the game's hybrid electromechanical/solid-state design, use of 3D printing for small-batch production, collaboration with renowned pinball artist John Yau-Se, and the challenges of manufacturing a limited run of 30 units at $2,000 MSRP. Terry emphasizes the project's focus on fun and learning over profit, open-source design philosophy, and potential future remake of the game Ringer.

Key Claims

  • Scorgasm Master is a modern reimagining of Contact Master, a 1930s bagatelle game originally made by Pamco, converted from battery-operated to solid-state with callouts, artwork, backbox display, and music.

    high confidence · Terry DeZwarte, interview host Nick Baldridge

  • The game contains 22 different 3D printed parts, primarily underneath the playfield, including the ball lift mechanism redesigned for durability and cost-effectiveness.

    high confidence · Terry DeZwarte

  • Day One Pinball manufactured 10 engineering samples and 20 production models for a total of 30 units, with approximately 10 remaining unsold.

    high confidence · Terry DeZwarte

  • Scorgasm Master is priced at $2,000 MSRP and is not being widely marketed or sold through normal retail channels—buyers must contact Terry directly.

    high confidence · Terry DeZwarte

  • The game was designed and produced from concept to completion in approximately six months, from Expo 2014 to MGC Milwaukee show 2015.

    high confidence · Terry DeZwarte

  • John Yau-Se, a renowned pinball artist, was commissioned for the artwork; he lives approximately 3 minutes from Day One Pinball's location.

    high confidence · Terry DeZwarte

  • Day One Pinball is exploring a possible future remake of the game Ringer (also called Penny Pinch or Horseshoes), potentially renamed 'Midget Boss,' targeting a six-month production timeline.

    medium confidence · Terry DeZwarte

  • Scorgasm Master uses a 'Playfield Sandwich' design where all playfield components pull out as one integrated slab, simplifying assembly and maintenance.

    high confidence · Terry DeZwarte

  • The design philosophy emphasizes open-source accessibility: music, callouts, and 3D-printed part files can be modified or re-printed by anyone with access to the STL files and 3D printer.

Notable Quotes

  • “We set out to have fun, learn how to make something from start to finish... We didn't do it for profit. We had set out to make money, but this would not be it.”

    Terry DeZwarte @ ~12:00 — Reveals core business philosophy: hobby-focused, learning-oriented, deliberately avoiding venture-scale growth

  • “Following our business model of build something almost nobody wants and then name it something horrible for even less people. That's the program.”

    Terry DeZwarte @ ~9:00 — Self-aware humor about niche market positioning and the 'Scorgasm Master' branding strategy

  • “I mean, the art and divide by 30, you know, instead of dividing by a thousand... Everything you do kind of kills you.”

    Terry DeZwarte @ ~50:00 — Illustrates the economic challenge of small-batch manufacturing and cost amortization at low volumes

  • “There are 7.2 billion people. Why do I only have to find 11 more?”

    Terry DeZwarte @ ~51:00 — Humorous perspective on the extreme niche nature of the product and minimal market requirement for profitability

  • “Making pinball is hard. Making bag-of-towel pin games is hard. I couldn't even imagine making even a bingo game.”

    Terry DeZwarte @ ~33:00 — Acknowledges broader mechanical complexity across all amusement device categories

  • “We like to quit while it's still fun. And as far as day one pinball goes, hey, that's a real company, it's incorporated, that can be dormant, that can come back to life anytime I feel like it.”

    Terry DeZwarte @ ~48:00 — Core philosophy: preserve team enjoyment and flexibility over aggressive scaling

  • “If you wanted to do this and make 1,000 of them... I would say you could probably sell them for half of that.”

    Terry DeZwarte @ ~51:30 — Economic insight: economies of scale would cut price to ~$1,000, but volume increases overhead and complexity

  • “It's two coils, two separate coils fired by one split.”

Entities

Terry DeZwartepersonDay One PinballcompanyPinball LifecompanyScorgasm MastergameContact MastergameJohn Yau-SepersonNick BaldridgepersonFor Amusement Only EM and Bingo Pinball PodcastorganizationRingergame

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Scorgasm Master production run completed at 30 units total (10 engineering samples + 20 production); approximately 10 units remaining unsold as of June 2015; no ongoing production planned

    high · Terry: 'We made 10 engineering samples... We've made 20 of the production models, which I think I have maybe 10 left... I don't really want to make that... everybody's doing it in their spare time.'

  • ?

    design_innovation: First-time use of 3D printing for bagatelle remake; 22 parts 3D printed; enables small-batch production economically infeasible with traditional tooling

    high · Terry: 'There were some parts that without 3D printing, you could never make 30... The ball mechanism originally was a hot metal device... you'd have 300 bucks in the mechanism. So it was impossible.'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Playfield Sandwich concept: all playfield components integrated into single removable slab for simplified assembly and reduced maintenance complexity

    high · Terry: 'Instead of pulling out all these different pieces, pulls out this one big slab that is the whole playfield... once you get it locked and set... basically, there's almost nothing that can go wrong.'

  • $

    market_signal: Intentional niche market strategy: Scorgasm Master targets 30-unit production lifetime with $2,000 MSRP; minimal marketing; direct-to-customer sales model; not pursuing retail distribution

    high · Terry: 'I'm not trying to sell them anywhere... You have to find me to buy one, basically... I haven't bothered to even put it on my own website... I don't really want to make that.'

  • ?

Topics

Design philosophy and product strategy for limited-batch boutique manufacturingprimary3D printing application in small-batch amusement device productionprimaryBagatelle and pre-pinball mechanical games as design inspiration and market nicheprimaryPricing and cost structure in ultra-low-volume manufacturingprimaryOpen-source design philosophy and community-driven modificationsprimaryCollaboration with established pinball artists on indie projectssecondaryElectromechanical vs. solid-state game design evolutionsecondaryEM and vintage pinball parts sourcing and supply marketsecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.82)— Terry DeZwarte is enthusiastic and proud of the Scorgasm Master project, speaks fondly of collaborators (especially John Yau-Se), and expresses genuine enjoyment of the process. Tone is humble, self-deprecating, and humor-filled. No significant criticisms or complaints, though some gentle frustration about manufacturing complexity and consumer perception (math requirement). Strong sense of satisfaction with the final product and team experience.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.161

0:00
Today's episode is an interview episode and there were some audio issues, especially in the beginning of the episode. Stick with it though, it's I think a very interesting look into the Scorgasm Master, which is made by Terry and the folks at Pinball Life and Day One Pinball. The audio starts to clean up at about 16 minutes, so if you're really unhappy with the audio, if you skip to that point, it does start to get better.
0:41
There is a bit of echo beyond that, but I promise I was not talking to Terry from under the ocean or across a baseball field. There were just some issues with the setup that I had. So Terry, if you're listening, sorry for the first 15 or 16 minutes, but I didn't want you to have to repeat the entire interview. So without further ado, here we go.
1:15
What's that sound? It's For Amusement Only, the EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast. Welcome back to For Amusement Only. This is Nick Baldrige and today I have a special guest, Terry DesWart from Pinball Life and Day One Pinball. Hi Terry, how are you? Good. How are you doing? Doing well. Terry and his team over at Day One have recently remade with some modern touches a game from the 30s called Contact Master. It was originally by Pamco.
1:49
Their take is called Scorgasm Master and I wanted to have Terry on to talk about some of the differences between the 30s game and the modern game. Ours is more fun. Fair enough. Interview over. So what makes yours more fun than the 30s version? Well, we took an old, obviously, I guess it's slightly an electro-mechanical game and turned it into a more of a modern solid state game.

high confidence · Terry DeZwarte

  • Day One Pinball intentionally keeps volume low and pricing high to maintain profitability at small scale and avoid debt-financed expansion.

    medium confidence · Terry DeZwarte

    • Terry DeZwarte @ ~38:00 — Technical specification of coil configuration; uses modern off-the-shelf parts rather than replicating original hokey setup

  • “Without 3D printing, you could never make 30. It would just be completely costly... The ball mechanism originally was a hot metal device. Making, tooling that and making 30, I mean, you'd have 300 bucks in the mechanism.”

    Terry DeZwarte @ ~22:00 — Demonstrates how 3D printing technology enabled the Scorgasm Master project to exist; otherwise prohibitively expensive

  • “If it comes out early... there's two progressive scoring holes... there's quite a bit of strategy there, just in when and how you actually trigger that switch.”

    Terry DeZwarte @ ~36:00 — Describes gameplay mechanics and strategic depth inherited from original Contact Master design

    • Steve Young
    person
    Danesi Blaylockperson
    Doug Manleyperson
    Pamcocompany
    Rocky Mountain Pinball Showevent
    MGC Milwaukeeevent
    Pinball Expoevent
    Kevin O'Connorperson
    Gregperson
    Joeperson
    John Popadiuk Jr.person
    Richmond, Virginialocation

    product_strategy: Economic analysis: current $2,000 MSRP reflects high per-unit cost at 30-unit volume; estimated cost could drop to $1,000 at 1,000-unit volume, but Day One Pinball avoids scaling to preserve team enjoyment

    high · Terry: 'If you wanted to do this and make 1,000 of them... you could probably sell them for half of that... Everything you do kind of kills you.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Scorgasm Master released with open-source design philosophy: STL files for 3D-printed parts publicly available; music and callouts user-modifiable; encourages community customization and reproduction

    high · Terry: 'Everything here is open source... you can change the music, the callouts, any prints that anybody wants... anybody can download the file and 3D print another one anytime.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Design process emphasized preserving original Contact Master gameplay and pin layout while adding modern conveniences (audio, backbox); team prioritized learning and fun over profit maximization

    high · Terry: 'We wanted to keep the gameplay the same, but at the same time we wanted everybody to know that it was not from the 1930s... We set out to have fun, learn how to make something from start to finish.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Scorgasm Master developed by multi-disciplinary team (John Yau-Se on art, Doug Manley on accessories, Terry DeZwarte on design/engineering, Danesi Blaylock on playtesting); assembled at Pinball Expo 2014

    high · Terry: 'Between all of us we actually had everybody brought something different to the table... we figured out around expo last year that... we can make a complete product.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Day One Pinball considering remaking Ringer (also called Penny Pinch/Horseshoes) as next project; potential new name 'Midget Boss'; targeting six-month production window; no confirmed timeline

    medium · Terry: 'We're kind of tossing around remaking Ringer... We're going to maybe make that, rename it Midget Boss... I think it's something that you actually could make and get from start to finish in a six-month period.'

  • ?

    content_signal: For Amusement Only EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast Episode 88 (June 1, 2015) features in-depth interview with Scorgasm Master designer; podcast focuses on EM and vintage pinball machines; note: early episode audio quality issues

    high · Episode title and host introduction: 'Episode 88 - Interview with Terry DeZwarte 6-1-15... For Amusement Only, the EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast.'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Interview reveals renewed interest in pre-pinball bagatelle mechanics (Contact Master, Ringer) as design inspiration for modern hobbyist manufacturers; represents connection to pinball's historical roots (1930s era)

    medium · Discussion of Contact Master (1930s Pamco bagatelle) as source material; Terry's appreciation for 1930s mechanical innovation; plans to remake Ringer (another classic bagatelle)

    • 2:27
    We had the original battery operated, two coils, a buzzer. We stayed with the integrity of the game. We didn't want to change it into something that it's not. We're not, it isn't older amusement device. And, but we wanted to add things like call outs and we wanted to add, you know, full arc, something that was probably a lot harder to do than, you know, this has got arc, full
    2:58
    art on the playfield, full art on the cabinet. We added a back box. We wanted to add not only a subwoofer, but we wanted to add features up the back box Just a little display there. It's a static display, but just something to give it a little height in the back. We gave the shape of it, it's more the shape of a modern pinball cabinet. Smaller, but you know those old bagatelles were, they were very thin. Yes. You can use them up and down. But it just looks a little slight.
    3:33
    We gave it a little more modern feel that way. We also added a bunch of original music items because, again, even if you're playing something like that, people are used to playing with a musical background. It's been a long time since it was. Really it was 99.9% silent. Yes. What you can't do without the silence of your mind. The silence of your mind is deafening. And then you know, we obviously we wanted to keep the gameplay the same, but at the
    4:12
    same time we wanted everybody to know that it was not from the 1930s. That it was something that was being made now. So, following our business model of build something almost nobody wants and then name it something horrible for even less people. That's the program. So, when you keep the market very, very thin, you don't have to build very much. Well, yeah, I mean, I guess that is one approach.
    4:44
    So, we're not, we didn't do it for profit. We had set out to make money, but this would not be it. We set out to have fun, learn how to make something from start to finish, although I've made tons of parts and assemblies and I mean you name it metal, rubber, plastic, and you know, the 12, 15 years I've been doing this, we've never done one thing from beginning to end. You know, the concept, drawing it all out, just making, you know, making a complete for sale amusement device.
    5:19
    And if we were going to do something like that, A, I wanted to be able to actually do it, design it forever, run out a month, ask people for money, you know, then, you know, which as we've seen recently, you know, kind of, you know, eventual failure. Like we wanted to keep it in some sort of zone where look if I lost every penny I invested I'd still be okay. Which means obviously I'm not going to be spending millions of dollars. And you know there was a bunch of us we just sort of figured out around expo last year that wow
    5:53
    between all of us we actually had every everybody brought something different to the table and we We can make a complete product. Why make a cheap sort of home-made pinball machine when you can make something that really, in my opinion, is a lot cooler when you're talking about a lower market, lower dollar high market. This is, you know, this isn't, you know, and no offense to this, they made a really fun pinball machine, but we didn't even think it felt like that then. And nobody was in game during the hell.
    6:25
    Obviously that might not be the case, but it was a unique choice. And we love playing these little games. I mean, you know, I've never played a bingo. But I've played lots of them back in hell. Obviously they're friendly majoring devices. Paul Schrum,
    7:00
    212Comeupp Way цикл τ RAMSAY antibiotic This is your receptions clip from Writeme To all of us who were involved in something that was appealing, something that we wanted to make. It all started with Bagatelle. That's right, home amusements. So I was refreshing my memory today on the Day One Pinball blog on WordPress and I noticed some of the mechanisms that you use are 3D printed.
    7:32
    For example, the ball lift motor and the tilt, is that correct? Not motor, ball lift. The mechanism, yeah, there's 22 different 3D printed parts on this. We used, you know, we fabbed a lot of metal parts, a lot of it's wood, obviously. There were some parts that without 3D printing, you could never make 30. It would just be completely costly. The ball mechanism originally was a hot metal device.
    8:09
    Making, tooling that and making 30, I mean, you'd have 300 bucks in the mechanism. So it was impossible. And when we found out, we could redesign it, we could make it stronger, which it was, made out of copper. So we've had really no issues. A couple of fun stories, but once we found a weak spot to redesign the recliner, we came out with a rock solid. So yeah, how you would do without 3D printing in such small numbers, you tell me.
    8:43
    Now, remember, you're not going to walk up to it and say, most of the 3D printed parts are underneath the playfield. The Ball Lift The mechanism that you're sleeping, you know, the buck mechanism that launches the ball moving around the playfield, that's all standard pinball parts made out of metal. That's the stuff that you're playing with.
    9:15
    Right. And I was noticing that in the ball lift you have a what looks like a standard plunger with a rubber tip that's pushing on the 3D printed portion of the mechanism. Do you have concerns about durability there? Not at all. I mean, we have, uh, we have, how many balls have we shot and lifted in this game? I mean, thousands and thousands and thousands. We've taken one show game to three different shows and had eight year old kids like beat their crap.
    9:55
    Yeah. I don't know what it is about little kids in this game. Maybe they can see it, they're tall enough, but man, they just come over and just turn the pitch over, let me tell ya. If they can survive that, they can survive anything. I mean, that's... I should have videotaped some of these shows if they were available. Pretty shocking. But, you know, we'll get to a show and see if it'll, if it'll make it. That was... we kind of want to knock that one off.
    10:25
    At the same time, you're like, well, we'll see if this will keep. And, you know, again, we did design a couple of them, and once we did, I have no issues wearing the other thing. Look, it's a, it's a, it's just a, it's a STL file. I mean, anybody can just, you can re-3D print another one anytime. Anybody can download the file and 3D printers get more common and just down, and just make their own if they ever did.
    10:58
    I mean, everything here is open source, from you can change the music, the callouts, any prints that anybody wants. Absolutely more than happy to keep that stuff out forever. That's really cool. You know, that'll keep the game going forever. So, that's quite exciting. Now, as far as the artwork, it was John Yau-Se, the renowned pinball artist. And so how did you get involved with him?
    11:32
    Well, I did not know John. I have always liked his art and I thought, you know, it's a new company, it's a strange beast that we're making, it's an awkward name to say the least. Let's give it some legitimacy by, you know, getting a real, See if we can get a real pinball artist on board. And you know, for me that's a very short list. You know, Kevin O'Connor, you know, Greg, but you know, he's over at Stern and you know,
    12:07
    although, you know, I consider Greg a friend of mine, I would never want to ask him to do it with his obligations at Stern. He's, you know, he's working for Stern right now. I'm sure that's a conflict of interest. John, I didn't know. I looked him up on the internet. John Popadiuk Jr.:
    12:52
    I think I can throw a rock through his window from here. That's how close he lives. I mean, three minutes with traffic. Cool. That ended up being very convenient, very accessible, and you know, we just ended up, you know, we just hit it off. And he just, I think he just thought it was a kooky enough idea that, you know, we could do it. John Popadiuk Bob Betor Knapp Arcade Raydaypinball Deeproot Tanyo Klyce St Louis Bay Area And you know he was such a professional Like you know without him I mean the art wouldn have been the same wouldn have got done in the manner it did
    13:33
    I mean, he does everything right the first time. I can't say enough good things about him. And I love the way it came out. It was exactly what we were looking for. We wanted something, you know, I know the name's a little racy, I guess. I mean, I don't think it is, but obviously I'm wrong. There's plenty of people who yelled at me about it. I mean, this country is so tight that half of the word orgasm offends them. I mean, I think we've run out of real problems. That's a good point.
    14:03
    Don't even say gab them, for goodness sakes. So being that the name was there to, it was there to get the attention. We don't have, this isn't a trance, this isn't a banter. This is non-licensed. We wanted something that would grab you, like a license card. But at the same time, if you want to make a racist, you want to be classy at the same time.
    14:37
    John's idea was to make sort of the 40-degree style. You notice the art. I guess we need to hooray. Fun times. So, you know, did his thing, did it well, zero complaints, nothing to compliment for the guy. It was a pleasure working with him.
    15:07
    I think at the end of the day it really did add a nice bit of clout to the game that we had him working for. And somewhat unseasoned, it actually made us normal a bit as well. We had a lot of him dial up on the cabinet. A guy who's been known to do a few things that you're doing and he's like, you know what, don't ruin it, do it this way. And those guys in the home kind of makes me think they're all wrong.
    15:37
    If you're going to put a leg on it, Dennis was like, you've got to put nice wood legs on yours. And he was right. It looks terrible with metal legs. It's just that it was easy. We already have it. Yeah, but sometimes what's easy is not right. So, my answer is really long, sorry. No, that's fine. That's exactly, you know, why I wanted you to come on, is get you to talk in a bit more detail than what we've seen.
    16:12
    Next I wanted to talk about how it's assembled. So, on the blog it's very fascinating to look at the way that you have the playfield assemblies in this. You have the baffle underneath, of course. And then are there two additional pieces of playfield? Well, it takes more length to make playfield. You have what we call the paperclip. It's like a paperclip, and that basically makes the border of the playfield. The main kind of playfield you get from the border, usually a pinball machine,
    16:46
    is either a metal rail or a little piece of wood they just put there. This is like a whole sort of gutted piece of three-quarter burrs that you cut it out and you have left where the ball hangs. That is attached to the playfield. And then the very bottom part is where the ball rolls back to the trough to get in the queue for the lifter.
    17:16
    Live stream from Meg Pon Olympics傍ayn Francis, Presses nekoyen, Will Smith, Mr. Pine, Reggie 1 0 The mechanisms, the playfield, the baffle board, how it all operated, we ended up with this thing we ended up calling Playfield Sandwich, which the whole thing, instead of pulling out all these different pieces, pulls out this one big slab that is the whole playfield.
    18:03
    And, you know, once you get it locked and set and everything is lined up through it all together, it basically, there's almost nothing that can go wrong. It basically works into infinity at that point. It's very impressive to see. That's, yeah, we spent a lot, that ended up in the engineering, prototyping side of things. We spent a lot of time, everything you do affects something else, and then you change things and it affects something else.
    18:38
    You know, you're thinking, when you first walk up to the game, how complicated could it be? You put some balls in a hole and they roll back down and you put some more balls in the hole. But ultimately, I cannot believe people make pinball games. That's insane. I can see why there's a lot of failure. It is hard, I think, as we all experience. Making pinball is hard. Making bag-of-towel pin games is hard. I couldn't even imagine making even a bingo game.
    19:17
    You look in those games, they're very complicated. I've never played one, but I have actually looked inside one. Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi.
    19:54
    Yeah, it's true. So, you know, I love those tabletop games from the 30s that run off the dry cell batteries. I just think it's, there's an amazing amount of innovation that happened in that decade. Oh, the mechanicalization is unbelievable in the game. It's fascinating, actually. I mean, how they accomplished so much movement, so many different story options with these mechanical devices, moving balls where they needed to be, showing action, you know, the fleet, the valley fleet.
    20:37
    www.willywonka.com
    21:07
    With respect to Soy as savvy, kevin bet on either boring update on what happens to the handsh Instead of Oser,цы In akes villa 이젠 Which I think you mentioned that it uses bolts to actually make the connection?
    21:38
    What they did was they had a speeder totter system on top of the Stern lower playfield. And to get the electric up there, they just basically put a bolt through the wood, put a wall on it, and that's how they did it. Then they'd bring it back down the other side that way. Really, the design, first of all, replicating would have been needlessly expensive.
    22:09
    And it wasn't a good design anyway. I mean, you know, we took, you know, just because we saw the overall design. And then added, I believe, and boy, I do not have an electronic background. There are smarter people involved in this to get that done. But what I believe we did was we added a capacitor there as well. I believe the switch can't just be that instant that it rolls over a roll over switch. When it fires that solenoid, it has to stay up for a second or so.
    22:45
    That makes sure that the ball moves out of the hole and rolls down the playfield. And so adding a capacitor then, you know, made it so that although it's just a rollover switch, it acts a little different. Right. And yeah, without having switches in the holes, in the trap holes, that would be very difficult to do. Because you're not sensing with the matrix, you know, every single hole that everything is trapped in. So yeah, buffering with a capacitor makes...
    23:18
    Yes, you have to add the score up at the end. Yeah, which, I mean, that's how you did it. That seemed to be the most perplexing and downside for just about everybody who played it. Their lives are so easy. They cannot believe that they were going to have to add 2,000 plus 1,000 plus 500 plus 4,500 plus 100. Like, that's the deal breaker for them.
    23:48
    This game was great until I had to do math. It helps you score with the lady. But, uh, you know, it... There's a little math at the end. That's what makes it a bag of tell. Otherwise, in my opinion, you've got... if it keeps score for you, and the balls end up down at the bottom of the playfield in some sort of trough system, And to me, that's the next step. That's Flip N Out Pinball. Yep. I would agree. That would be all the 12.
    24:20
    Yep. So once you move away from marbles and into steel balls, I mean, that's kind of what you're talking about. Right. Now, I've seen pictures of this game, and you do have a separately colored ball, and that one scores double, I presume? That one scores double, so there ends up being a lot of strategy. It's going to come up randomly when you play. Okay. And when you reset the game, you know, all the balls fall through the holes, that game's over.
    24:53
    All the balls now are going to randomly queue up in the trough. But you don't know when the red ball is going to come out. So depending on when it comes out, you know, there's... You might want to, if it comes out early, you know, or if you've got one of the two really, you know, there's two progressive scoring holes. I don't know if you've ever played the original Contactmaster or not. Only seen pictures. You know, there's a switch with that very top hole, the scorgasm hole, for lack of a better,
    25:26
    I mean that's what it is, it's the main hole there, the contact hole. We can get up to 50 soccer games in
    25:58
    If they're already full, then you definitely want to go for the contact switch. Because every time you go to the contact, any ball that goes to the contact switch, you get that ball back. That comes, you know, goes over the rollover switch, comes back down to the trough, it's still in your game. Wow, okay. Only, you know, in the game you've got to have ten balls on top of the playfield. I'm going to go through the contact hole. That's going to move any balls forward that are in the buck position.
    26:31
    But that ball now is getting back in line for the same game. Wow, okay. Yeah, so I can see that there'd be quite a bit of strategy there, just in when and how you actually trigger that switch. Yes, and they were genius at how they... We kept the pin positions and all those exactly as original because we just couldn find a flaw They really somebody but Thousands of hours of play and figure out you know how you can you get you get pretty darn good at bouncing balls
    27:08
    On top of pins and rolling them down. They're all kind of in this V shape and the bigger points are in the middle and the you be surprised you get Pretty good at nudging them and hitting that ball to go where you want. Obviously the tilt, there is a tilt on the game, but it's by design a little looser than like tournament play and pinball or probably even most people's how they set it up. Because if you can't give it a good nudge, I mean you can't
    27:42
    interact with the ball. I mean basically nudging is your flippers instead. And so if you're not I'm not allowed to do that. Nobody, it's not fun. Right. It's there to prevent basically abuse, moving the game across the floor. Mm-hmm. But yeah, it's, uh, did I answer your question? I don't remember what it was. Uh, if you didn't answer that one, then you answered a different one. So yes. So, um, what's, uh, what's the highest score that you've gotten on it?
    28:13
    The highest score possible, first of all, is 27,000. Okay. I think my highest score is about 15,000. Very good. And so do you have ringers there at Pinball Life that play and can best that score easily? Danesi Blaylock is not only a good pinball player, but I guess he's a good amusement device player because he's definitely the guy to beat in our circle.
    28:46
    He's the guy who owned the original Contact Master. Definitely, you know it's not all luck because he can pretty consistently beat other people. So that's, you know, he's got the touch. That's good. So as far as the coils involved, do you have multiple coils or is it just a single solenoid with an armature?
    29:20
    It's two coils, two separate coils fired by one split. Okay. Modern, again, the original coils, quite the kind of hokey setup. We use, obviously, no need to recreate that. Wasn't going to start with. None of those parts are available. We wanted to use readily accessible parts, off the shelf sort of parts that we manufacture, that we have here, that we make
    29:56
    I LabTeak
    30:26
    It's really pretty big. Is it? I've never seen a counter, and I haven't seen it all, and you've seen way more than me, Nick, so I might be being naive here, but I don't know if you've played like the original Ballyhoo, Bagatelle. So it's about that size? Pop size. Like the little table top size. This is, uh, this is, uh, we actually did the math, it's 87% the size of the one we used to play. Oh, okay, okay. Okay. So it's a playfield being basically 22 by... our width is I think 18 or 19.
    31:05
    Okay. So it's, you know, it's smaller, definitely. I would say it's kind of safe cracker size. Okay. All right. Yeah, that puts it in a ballpark in my head there. That's a lot bigger than I had thought. I know that's maybe misleading you a little bit because Safecracker's got the you know got a full-size head on it. Well yeah. You know so it doesn't look you know when you when you actually it doesn't look as big as a Safecracker but when you measure it it's very close.
    31:41
    Wow. Boxed up it's 20 by 25 by 48 believe me. Okay. New in box, that size. Yeah, that's quite a bit bigger than I thought. But sure, we'll sell it without the legs. We don't care. And it uses wooden legs, as you mentioned. And I hear there's custom cup holders that you can get, pin gulps.
    32:12
    There are. It comes with a custom key fob, Rob and you can get a custom pinball if you would like that's an add-on it's a mod that's what it will be initially we were gonna have the back box be an add-on too but then I just sounded it looks so good with it that we just decided that nobody should not have it that way yeah so yeah that's definitely a Doug Manley does all the
    32:48
    There's my phone. Did they did a great job? Although the circle art is taken from the stuff that John did. So Are there any Well, how many more do you have to sell through? I know the initial run was going to be very limited. Well, we made 10 engineering samples
    33:18
    We've made 20 of the production models, which I think I have maybe 10 left. I'm not trying to sell them anywhere. Try to buy one. You can't. You have to find me to buy one, basically, at this point. I must enjoy owning them. You like having the boxes stacked up? I'm like, yeah, because, you know, I've got a couple of UK distributors that are wanting me to, you know, send them some and a couple other sort of, you know, home game room places that are interested.
    34:00
    You know, we've only got 30. And I'll be honest with you, I don't really want to make that. I know that sounds terrible, but it's like, you know, everybody's doing it in their spare time. And it was it was a lot of work. We like to quit while it's still fun. And as far as day one pinball goes, hey, that's a, it's a real company, it's incorporated, that can be dormant, that can come back to life anytime I feel like it. Maybe next year we might, again, given our business model, make something nobody wants
    34:36
    and then name it something that even less people will want. We're kind of tossing around remaking Ringer. I don't know if you've ever played that game. That's, uh, I think so. Is that one of the ones that's kind of a figure eight design? We're playing Horseshoes. Uh, Penny Pinch is called as well sometimes. Oh, yes! Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we're going to maybe make that, rename it Midget Boss. Oh, that, uh, that sounds good.
    35:08
    Peggy O'Reilly, 14егда yes
    35:38
    I think it's something that you actually could make and get from start to finish in a six-month period, which was our goal, by the way. We started at Expo. We wanted to have this done by MGC in Milwaukee, which is, I think, one week shy of six months. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that's crazy. We even saw three in the morning a few times that last week, let me tell you. I believe it. Wow, that, you know, we, if it goes beyond that, and again, everybody's doing it for fun, they're doing it in their spare time, and if it isn't, you know, when it stops being fun, people stop showing up.
    36:18
    They just won't be still. You know, if we're gonna, if it ever got to some other alternative universe and people wanted hundreds of orgasms, the business model would have to completely change. I mean, I don't even have a, I'll be honest, I don't have a plan for that. I, you know, I'm, why they're not even for sale? They are, call me, I can sell you one, but I haven't bothered to even put it on my own website. I was going to ask about that, yeah, because I had looked for one.
    36:52
    So now the price point that you were selling, are they still $2,000 MSRP? Yes. It is really, really hard to make something again in that small amount. Everything you do kind of kills you. Even like John, who gave us great friend prices. But when you're only making 30, you take the art and divide by 30, you know, instead of dividing by a thousand.
    37:25
    Right. Or even a hundred. You know, it's, you know, all the prototyping which we made, we made a proof of concept, we made a prototype here, we made a production prototype, you know, it's like all that work that you do and then you're really just going to get a, you know, you're just going to We're going to make a few games today, which is fine, but saying that you can do it cheap, $2,000 is cheap. Yeah, I would agree, and I hope you don't take that as criticism. I was just making
    37:57
    sure that that was the price. I'll tell you, if you wanted to do this and make 1,000 of them, say the world flipped on a 10 or 1,000, I would say you could probably sell them for half of that. I don't know what The Economy is a scale, but they're working against you.
    38:28
    I think that's a pretty good deal. There's 7.2 billion people. Why do I only have to find 11 more? Seems reasonable. It's a really beautiful product, at least from pictures. I really hope to see one one day. I took the pictures, so, you know, we didn't spend any money on a studio. And I did the best I could, but I, you know, I still don't think I've seen a picture that
    38:58
    really does it justice. Maybe that's the only post, I don't know. But just about everybody who sees it, wow, looks better in person. And I don't think the pictures look bad. I just don't know how to really make it look, you know, better than I have. Well, unfortunately I have no photography insight for you. Where are you located? Where do you feel from? I'm from Richmond, Virginia.
    39:31
    So... My buddy Joe from Laserific is taking a sorghase over to the Rocky Mountain show. So, that's a plug for that, I guess. But it's going the wrong way for you. Yeah, yeah. I do have a friend who is probably going to attend, though, so I'll have him check it out. He's going to take a better picture than me. I'll see what I can do.
    40:02
    So now if you were to manufacture a new ringer would that mean that Pinball Life might carry score reels and other associated accoutrements If we you know ringer did use a score reel obviously If we did it it would probably be a digital display Oh well You know re a score reel and making you know I think it's a TwinTix 2, so, you know, make it 30, 60. It's just...
    40:34
    Maybe by, if you use a stepper motor system, kind of like Lonelli's using, kind of like, uh, didn't, uh, That was the name of that thing that Fabulous Fantasies did. Yeah, the remake of King of Diamonds. King of Diamonds, there you go, yeah. Didn't they use sort of a stepper motor, which is more real type of thing? Yup, and midway in the 60s... I've never looked at what that would cost. I bet it would be expensive.
    41:05
    And so little happens as far as scoring in Ringer. I mean, you know, a score of 9 to 4, you know, it's, you know, that's, I don't know if people are looking at the score reel for a visual on that. It is different than a pinball machine, which has kind of the whole constant scoring and the clinging and the clanging of the score reels going around, you know, is part of the attraction, definitely. In Ringer, I'd have to say probably not so much. So I don't know if it would be worth the investment, but I guess we'll see.
    41:40
    Well, hey, yeah, who knows what the future holds, right? So as far as pinball life, you know, I focus primarily on EMs and bingos and older games. There's not a huge selection of anything that's outside of, of course, the modern, and I'm sure that's because there's not a huge demand for it. I don't think there is. I mean, you tell me. Is there, do you think there's something that really needs to be made? I mean, I'm always open to suggestions, but I, you know, I'll show my stupidity here.
    42:22
    We're all here. I'm with you, I'm here. If there was things that really needed to be made that nobody was making, I mean, I would look at it. I do believe, I'm not sure, but you know, I think Steve Young from Pinball Resource, doesn't he carry the biggest supply of that sort of stuff? I mean, that's something you tell me. Absolutely. And he does a lot as far as making parts which are no longer available. So in that sort of market, which I would say, I might be missing it, but I would say it's Steve's already supplying that market and he's doing a good job, which I assume he is.
    42:59
    I don't really see a need for anybody else to step in because I don't think you can split that market in two and both would be happy. So you need another guy selling EM parts? I don't know. You tell me. I don't necessarily think so. But then again, you know... I mean we have the capabilities to make just about anything and that's a conversation for another time but I'm always open to any ideas on different things.
    43:36
    Well, over the years there are many things that are no longer available but I haven't had those conversations with Steve either. I'm sure if he's not making them, there might be a reason why, too. Yeah, he'll forget more about pinball than I'll ever know. Oh, yeah, ditto. So, but yeah, so anything else, Scorgasm Master, that you'd like to
    44:07
    talk about? I'd kind of like to talk a little bit about the tilt mechanism, if you've got it... Another thing they call the pedestal style tilt mechanism. I think this was only the second game it was ever used in and I believe it's been a while since I read my history. You know, Harry Williams designed this game. Before, obviously, Williams, he was just selling his designs. I believe that's one of the patents sold for this game, but I might be speaking out of turn there.
    44:40
    But it's a pedestal style of tilt mechanism that I've never seen anywhere beyond like probably 1935 or 6. But very, very effective. I mean in a payout system like what this would originally been. I mean the ball's sitting up on a little pedestal. If you push it too hard, it falls off the pedestal. And if you go try to get paid out for your great score, you know, the bartender points at the ball not on the pedestal and says, John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, INDISC, Data East, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi.
    45:10
    John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Keith Elwin, Laser Los, Bowen Kerins, Lyman F. Sheats Jr., ketoscian.com, digitalcompanysystems.com, mathematician, Yeah, that mechanism is very simple, effective. And, you know, you just look at it simplicity. It's beautiful how, like, somebody came up with this, like, really simple, very effective
    45:47
    way of, you know, telling you how hard you could hit a machine and whether the game had been pushed past that point during the game. And it's, I mean, I'm sure you're familiar with them, but I really wasn't. I think that's the first one I'd ever seen. You tell me how many games were they used on? A lot? I know they were used on more than Contact Monster. Yeah, Pamco used them, but I'm not sure how far they carried or if they carried into Williams after that.
    46:22
    So, I don't know. I like that tilt mechanism that was used, I forget who used it, but it was a little needle. The That would go from okay over to tilt. Tilt, yep. That's a cool one too. Yeah, it's like a kind of an iconic representation because you know you see that in cartoons and so forth as well. But yeah. So I also wanted to ask about the baffle reset.
    46:54
    So you have another plunger which acts as the baffle pusher Baffle pusher. And was there ever a thought to put a coin slide in? Well, no, not really, because honestly, who's going to operate this thing? Good point. Come on, kid, get your nickels. Yep. And you know what? This was for fun. I didn't want to be perceived in any way, shape, or form as trying to actually be any
    47:25
    I was a little bit of a competitor to manufacturers that I respect and not looking to get into that field. So we made the decision to go with non-coin off. Certainly it could very easily be coin off. I mean basically the knob, the lever that resets the playfield, that was where the, you know, just the, they still make that mechanism. Oh yeah. All that does is, you know how they work, they put the nickel in and it allows the thing to be pushed all the way in for the reset. Without the nickel it won't push all the way in. Ours just pushes all the way in every time.
    48:06
    Right. I would say if you wanted to really be industrious it wouldn't be too hard to convert. I was thinking that. But for our uses, and I also don't know, and you know, we've never done anything like this, I didn't really look into it. I wanted, I feel like if it's for commercial use, there might be other sorts of hoops that you have to jump through. I'm not sure. I was wondering if that might have been the reason. All our electronic components are UL listed. Off the shelf power supplies, amplifiers, you know, so, you know,
    48:44
    So we're all set there, but I honestly don't really know the process and wasn't interested in learning it. So we decided to keep it non-coin op. And I understand that coin op is part of what makes these games collectible. But I only got to sell 30. Ours is... Right. So you only need 30 people again. So yeah. Yeah, that does make it a little easier.
    49:15
    So, have you put any thought into making some kind of modern trade stimulator? A what? Some kind of modern trade stimulator, like in bars they used to have these roll down games or... Like mini slot machines? www.willywonka.com
    50:04
    Those things are huge. I don't know if you, you know, that's way bigger than a pinball machine. Oh yeah. So we opted out for now. But what a great game. I mean, love that game. Roll downs are a blast. So I wouldn't rule it out in the future, someday, maybe, I guess that's 2017, maybe. But yeah, we want to... the things that we redo, I think, moving forward, definitely are going to be that sort of, part of that eclectic mix off the kind of beaten path.
    50:45
    Things that you would just... when you hear somebody remaking it, you just can't believe anybody would do that to you. That's the thing we want to remake. Gotcha. Yeah. You could sell them to bars, but again, if you're not trying to enter into that market. What? A trade? What? So, trade stimulators are, again, like little tiny slot machines or something. There's small coin operated amusements and by small, I mean really small, like maybe 12 by 12.
    51:19
    What do they do? Well, most of the time you put in a coin and they spin something. And when it stops spinning, depending on the position of the thing that was spinning, you would get a free whiskey or something like that. It doesn't sound all that fun. It doesn't have to be fun. It's free whiskey. Whiskey sounds fun, but the game itself doesn't really sound all that fun. Yeah.
    51:50
    And I would agree with that. Again, I'm thinking more of a marketing plan, so that's not very helpful. You'd have to send me a link to one of those. I am not familiar with that product. Sure, yeah. I'm happy to do so. And Terry, if you're ever in Richmond, let me know. Be happy to have you over and play a bingo or two. How many do you have? I got three at the moment. Awesome. And I've got a countertop game from the 30s.
    52:21
    Thanks for having me. This was fun. I enjoy your podcast. Very good. Thank you very much. I hope to talk to you again soon. I'll shoot you a link to some pictures of trade simulators here. Thanks. All right. Thanks, Terry. I want to thank my guest Terry from Pinball Life and Day One Pinball.
    52:54
    You can buy pinball related merchandise and pinball mechanisms and so forth from pinballlife.com And you can also read about the Day One Pinball progress on dayonepinball.wordpress.com. If you would like to purchase a Scorgasm Master, contact Terry at Pinball Life. You can actually email him at terry, T-E-R-R-Y, at pinballlife.com.
    53:30
    So thank you again for listening. My name again is Nick Baldrige. You can reach me at 4amusementonlypodcast at gmail.com. You can listen to us on iTunes, Stitcher, Pocket Cast via RSS, on Facebook, on Twitter, and on our website which is 4amusementonly.libsyn.com. Thanks very much for listening and I'll talk to you next time.