SDTM Episode 42: This Month In Pinside (November 2017)

Straight Down the Middle·video·43m 19s·analyzed·Nov 28, 2017

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

SDTM November 2017: Guardians reveal underwhelming, JJP rumors swirl, Expo coverage.

Summary

Zach Sharp and Greg from Straight Down the Middle discuss November 2017 pinball news, including a holiday giveaway with Pin Stadium lighting as grand prize, reactions to Guardians of the Galaxy reveal at a Florida show, rumors of Toy Story and Willy Wonka machines from Jersey Jack, Star Wars code updates, and impressions from Grand Old Game Room Pinball Expo in Nashville.

Key Claims

Two songs will appear in Guardians of the Galaxy (Cherry Bomb by The Runaways and Hooked on a Feeling)
high confidence · Zach Sharp and Greg discussing Guardians code details after seeing DeadFlip stream
Guardians of the Galaxy premiere video was underwhelming and showed poor presentation quality
high confidence · Greg and Zach's direct reaction to the controlled environment DeadFlip stream
Star Wars code and accessories will be released in December
high confidence · Direct announcement discussion by hosts
Ghostbusters code will follow after Star Wars reaches version 1.0
medium confidence · Hosts discussing Stern's code release timeline
Christopher Franchi confirmed working on next Stern title that is universal/loved by all and not The Beatles
medium confidence · Kaneda's Pinball Podcast interview reference, hosts speculating on IP possibilities
Barry Eisler will design next Highway Pinball title, announcement coming at Texas Pinball Festival 2018
medium confidence · Hosts discussing Highway Pinball's future plans
Star Wars theme integration on the pinball machine is weak and fails to deliver on the Star Wars experience
high confidence · Greg's direct play experience at a show, contrasting gameplay vs. theme execution
American Pinball is responsive to community questions and concerns about Houdini Master of Mystery
medium confidence · Hosts observing American Pinball's engagement approach

Notable Quotes

“I was kind of underwhelmed. Nothing stood out to me to make it seem like a special pin.”
Greg@ 8:57 — Initial reaction to Guardians of the Galaxy reveal stream—sets tone for criticism about game presentation and design
“I never felt Star Wars on that damn thing at any point. And that's what kills it for me.”
Greg@ 18:30 — Core criticism of Star Wars machine: poor theme integration despite decent gameplay mechanics
“If you get Toy Story, if you really get Toy Story, you've knocked it out of the park.”
Greg@ 15:03 — Expression of optimism about rumored Jersey Jack Toy Story machine
“Give me some interviews. Give me some behind-the-scenes. Give me sitting down with Christopher Franchi, she's talking about his inspiration.”
Greg@ 11:01 — Constructive feedback on how Stern should present new machines—request for designer interviews and production documentation
“It's not a theme anyone will have to worry about, and it is universal kind of loved by all.”
Zach (paraphrasing Christopher Franchi)@ 21:43 — Hints at next Stern game IP being universal appeal; constrains speculation possibilities
“Who is to say how much a pin is worth? The thing that I hate hearing is game X is not a $3,000 pin.”
Greg@ 32:54 — Philosophical take on secondary market pricing and value subjectivity

Entities

Zach SharppersonGregperson Christopher Franchiperson John BorgpersonBarry EislerpersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyHighway Pinballcompany

Signals

?
business_signal: Highway Pinball announcing next title while still shipping first machine (Alien); hosts cautious optimism mixed with concern about company stability
medium · Zach: 'Why announce something this soon in the game you're not even shipping Alien yet?' but later acknowledges announcement provides comfort about company's future
?
community_signal: American Pinball demonstrating strong responsiveness to community questions and concerns; building hype through engagement before shipping Houdini
medium · Hosts: 'They are answering questions... addressing concerns... very promptly. I feel like that that's a good thread. I feel like the height is growing.'
~
sentiment_shift: Batman 66 received significant code update that improved reception; minor villains now full-fledged modes; community sentiment improved after update
high · Hosts discussing Batman 66 code update and noting community 'raving about' the game after changes
?
design_philosophy: Star Wars Pinball fails to integrate theme experience despite mechanical features; hosts felt no Star Wars presence during gameplay
high · Greg: 'I never felt Star Wars on that damn thing at any point. And that's what kills it for me.'
?
design_philosophy: Hosts advocate for deeper code complexity without extreme difficulty; prefer balance shown in games like Circus Voltaire over overly complex or overly simple approaches
medium · Greg: 'I like deep code... They could take that and make it just a little bit deeper instead of jumping into the uber deep multiplier'

Topics

Guardians of the Galaxy reveal and receptionprimaryJersey Jack Pinball machine rumors (Toy Story, Willy Wonka)primaryStar Wars Pinball code updates and presentation criticismprimaryGrand Old Game Room Pinball Expo coverage and highlightsprimaryStern Pinball's presentation strategy and marketing approachsecondaryChristopher Franchi's next designer project (universal theme)secondarySecondary market machine pricing and value assessmentsecondaryHighway Pinball's future roadmap and Barry Eisler announcementsecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.45)— Hosts are excited about upcoming releases and community engagement but critical of presentation quality and theme execution on recent Stern releases. Guardians of the Galaxy initially underwhelming, Star Wars lacking theme integration, but optimism about new announcements and smaller manufacturers like American Pinball. Secondary market discussion reflects healthy community engagement.

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

are you ready for your next pinball machine call flipping out now and choose from the newest and hottest pinball machines from jersey jack pinball stern pinball chicago gaming company and american pinball flipping out also offers the Escalera stair climbing hand truck visite now it flip in a pinball calm the wait is over a revolution in and gnarly lighting for your pinball is finally here fully customizable full spectrum lighting from ping stadium lights order yours now at King stadium comm check out pin graphics for the latest and greatest in pinball enhancements power blades blade skins pin blades and even more visit ping graphics calm now to see what's available for your pinball machine let's kick this [ __ ] [Music] you had a fling way the slingshot you roll an iboutlet are gay nice good evening my good morning afternoon couple afternoon haters here actually it is the afternoon this is Zach and Greg from straight down the middle of pinball show we've got another rendition of this month in pin side and we'd like to welcome you to our holiday happy give away holiday happy you said it right nice job dude I always mess that up yeah what is the holiday happy giveaway tell the people so our holiday happy giveaway yeah we're going to be releasing a set of code words a Creed 3 to 3 said well there's there's more words in one of them it's it's a some words and phrases that will be spread across our media platforms it will be frickin holiday spirit too damn Scrooge Grinch outfit right here that's the only Greece you need so um they'll be spread across to our media platforms our first code word will be released on our next YouTube video which will be a tucked in we won't tell you what top loaded abductor no that's wrong it could be right it stopped it it's closed it's somewhere in there you get a watch and then we'll release a code word on our Facebook page yeah and well we will release a code word during one of our twitch streams yeah so but what happened with it so they get all these three things they they submitted to us via Facebook or something like yet what the hell they even get then we will take all those names it's gonna be very similar to blee we did the Pat Lawler okay sign translate for him flipping out pinball no it's gonna be similar to what he rolled this footage oh now it's time for any secret message for you members of The Secret Circle remember kids only members of any Secret Circle can decode any secret message remember is depending on you set your pins to be too here is the messy I was getting closer now the tension was terrible what was it the fate of the planet may hang in the balance [Music] she's almost there I think her flu my mummy was a steel trap every pore vibrated it was almost clear yes drink your Ovaltine Ovaltine Swami commercial so ya Ralphie yeah so they get these three they submit them to us and what do they get and with you for very first place grand prize is a full set of pin stadium oh that's pretty awesome yeah is it just the base set no it's everything it's until they integrate to whatever machine whatever system that you pick whichever machine I want whatever machine you want I'm probably no hell that's the grand property no the world then we're gonna roll into a second-place prize at third place prize of force hey careful careful we're gonna be happy holiday giveaway the pinball Oberon nobody wants whooping Bob we're just giving [ __ ] away you get a prize you get a prize you get a prize in the back we are giving it to everybody so we'll give away some SC TM pinball shirts we're gonna a couple of Marcos remember bit like that memorabilia stuff man oh there's a couple things from ping graphics a couple small things remember yes now the lip and out pin below gave it and cool stuff and I pinball it's gonna don't get us wrong hey guys it's nothing it's cool stuff but there's cool stuffs not like we're reaching deep pockets or some people were very gracious to us and we're passing that along to you we love our sponge we do every one of them and we wanted more than just one promise like we wanted to make it truly the grand prize is the Penn Stadium set with with my friend GI integration and UV plus glow yes of any machine I decided yet how we're gonna structure the other prizes we still got some rolling in but we're gonna try to give these away you'll probably hear all three parts by mid to late December yes we'll give you a week or so to submit your entries for those three parts yes and then we'll draw a lot of the hats a special drawing you can check all the platforms through the news to the news news that's all we know what else news we have guardians of the galaxy that's what pin sides talking about right now everybody's talking about guardians to galaxy this cárdenas galaxy that it's metallica the codes not there here's the dead flip scream here's the song blah blah here's what we need to get into who said there was gonna be two songs we did they didn't know we told you guys are gonna be two songs how many sounds over there there's two adults that's right and they're good ones we got we got it yes we got Cherry Bomb from The Runaways and we also had your uh cachaça a little hooked on a feeling by blue suede but yes they place the songs and some really shitty Porsche and they play so much okay for two songs can we fix that yes let's stop worrying about that okay so where'd the songs need to go so the songs right now go whenever the modes and they start up yes okay which is weird it's a weird let it can be fixed yeah where do they need to go um probably us with two songs I think not necessarily maybe with select modes I wouldn't say wizard modes or anything why not well many ways your mode may be a mini wizard people by getting through those modes yeah I think if you do one mode then feels off-balanced here's my idea yeah I agree with that do like you're doing it now putting them not in mode based places put them Greg whenever you complete a mode now when you start the mode but if you actually complete the mode a good reward now that is to hope you didn't complete it okay but yes it's for the most part it should be easy to at least complete some notes Aerosmith is very much like that so it's hard to complete the modes but there's a couple that are pretty easy you're always gonna hear the music and one two three games you know you get the reward for completing and to get to that final wizard mode you have to complete every mode anyway so give the people a little reward for completing unload let's do that stern okay so dead flip had the stream yes all right what were your initial impressions after seeing that controlled environment stream he had direct video - oh I was kind of underwhelmed I mean I was as well nothing stood out to me to make it seem like a special pin yeah it didn't me - still very beautiful pin and it is still early in code so I try to give it the benefit of the doubt but I will have to say I was I was underwhelmed it killed some of my enthusiasm that's just honesty you know life being constructive here I would like to see from stern is a bigger push for presentation and what I mean by that is just overall just clean it up a little bit if you're gonna if you're gonna let people see this pin out in the wild have something a little bit a little bit better than us exclusively giving cell phone video I mean that was us yeah because this is all we could get but now and the people wanted to see it if it's gonna be in the public we're gonna get it for the people mm-hmm but make it so that doesn't happen make it so we get a nice promo video or we get dead flip and maybe doing the video and then what I would love to see I'd love to see us do it but in general I would love to see somebody do video promos of it then gameplay video of it then just sit down with sit down with John Borg as the gameplay is going yeah and saying tell me a little bit behind dis layout I yeah because we talked about that we said you know it could squash a lot of machine stuff and negative publicity Kazaam be a sport you said you know what was your idea on thinking behind this certain show because people are kind of giving it [ __ ] and if Borg rattles up you know this well you know I thought about this and I tried this I wanted to innovate that I want to do something here then it addresses the concerns of the people already straight out of the gate there's always going to be bitching people little nuggets as to why they want to buy the game exactly it's just seeing it you know stream and at one point they were playing one-handed yeah like as a consumer I want to see the game shine yes II see it shine in the most beautiful light so give me some interviews give me some behind-the-scenes give me sitting down with Christopher France she's talking about his inspiration behind the artwork huh give me a little Lani Rob talking about why he chose this type of ruleset then give me some gameplay then give me some yeah that's what I want cut take human and even it doesn't have to be live it can just be one nicely edited video don't they long been a metaphor at least maybe right before a gameplay but right after a damn play needs yeah so also the accessories for guardians of the galaxy were announced how big of nerds are we Gregory bone if we're talking accessories I know I am because I'm in mod freak I love months all right so we got the topper designed by a one and only Christopher and she the artist it's clean look it was very clean you could have win a lot of ways with that you could win maybe baby Groot in the pot dancing around you could have went walkie-talkie or the Walkman you could have went missin ice and clean it's cohesive nice machines nice to clean this Interactive's RGB yeah that's a plus all proof a proof shoe run baby grew head yeah it's gonna cool I approve I know it took some work to go into it and every beautiful but it is really neat but sixties my tops for that yeah inner are blades I kind of like a man yeah again I think I'm gonna get those more cohesion with the machine I agree there was other what other MO or what other mods get the the rails things so you get the laser-cut rails yeah I like those and then come in at a decent price other thing too [Music] yeah so even if they're 250 if you're gonna get a powder coat and stuff so the accessories overall I think it's a great little package all right so I Abba happened yeah I up and down in Orlando Florida that's an amazing looking show we learned a lot about that tree Charles Thomas one of our big fans a CT man like I'm friends with him on Facebook Stefan like virtual reality raft everything's B or wooden yeah it's so crazy so it actually felt really kick-ass so essentially Jersey Jack showed up in stern showed up Jersey Jack came with Pirates of the Caribbean to play and Stern came with it's not just the pinball show it's a full-on Arkady's bender it's like little to do with pinball those guys there to represent so we were we had nice enough and an anonymous correspondent anonymous SD team's correspondent brought you guys some exclusive videos so we want to say thank you thank you thank you to that and anybody else going to different shows and stuff like hell I'm Greg and I can't go to everything but we want you to be a part of the team to help out yeah show things for the people so get a hold of us if you're going to a show and you can show us something that was a big show with with guardians kind of yet fully being unveiled and being able to play it so there's really we had some people we couldn't get schedules coordinated but we had some people that we're gonna help us out with getting down there and stuff yeah yeah they were very gracious couldn't yeah you know who you are we freaking love you we freakin love you so they showed Guardians yeah just overall basic show the next I don't know what the next big show is though and then free play happen oh yeah I was thinking about that too there's a couple I think there's a few small ones before mobile and stuff but next big one I guess but technically be tech you know what else happened during this ayah by us Co what's a little bit of a title leak it's a rumor people think the toy stores coming up but then after that Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory excited about that oh my god whoa I cannot tell you it's so creepy Jersey Jack you're finally getting these things down if you nail down listen to me just me and you jack or whoever this development stuff if you get Toy Story if you really get Toy Story you've knocked it out of the park if you really get Willy Wonka this is true then you'll have taken a step backwards please don't listen this guy he is so wrong really Wonka I liked Roy's story or a plus choice story is gonna be phenomenal regardless whatever is done like that all is doing it that pin is going to look get out your purse Bridge stealing some purses but we will no SDTM does not condone your stealing purses till that pin comes out until that thing comes out alright so please just check let's let's make that true I hope so hey we really don't condone theft especially around Lilly walk is not gonna happen for a year or two yeah if that even were a mere 66 got a code update and everybody loves it now still do yeah that's been a game that has steadily grown on me steadily I've enjoyed that game okay I would buy that game if I had the money okay I don't know much about the code update but if I liked it I'm gonna like it even more now I'm not gonna botch it so go on pin side or go to the Facebook updates stern pinball comm they'll give you all of the details on the update but it was pretty significant over the last week's here was it I've heard it made a big difference it's added the minor villains to actually be full-fledged modes and people are raving about Batman 66 right now whatever what's a look anybody who's gonna argue that to me I'm gonna go oh I'm always gonna go back to what's your favorite shot on that game exactly I like that right right dude please tell me you're joking no there's nothing to those ramps yeah but I like them why I don't know it's just a cohesive it's it's it's all the game it's not one finish you're not one satisfied you just enjoy it no there's not I damn crap cuz I'm gonna actually I'm wrong there's one satisfying shots through that spinner on that mech yeah and it goes past they're elected a it's grown on him to it will not game will never be good Star Wars codes coming out to here in December they said uh certainly unions that Star Wars code will be released in December as well as the accessories hopefully hopefully accessories we don't know be an improvement we need to see the Star Wars topper we need to see the accessories we need to see code I don't know if code is that no act low no I don't think it's that bad of a code necessarily it's just the game comes out yeah yeah it's just we played it at we'll get to it here in a minute but Greenough gamer makes Bo we played it and streamed the premium there you listen out brought what nineteen yes a ton of free Star Wars but yeah we played the hell out of that game there and it just did it did you leave thinking you know what I'd like to own one of these no I don't know it's fun though like yes I believe they're wanting to own one but in a different sense then I want it to be a part of my collection I wanted to own one because I just want to thoroughly go through it and buy in a home setting I don't think that it's going to grow on me I wouldn't want to own it just because again the theme integration is just not there it's just not happening like no matter how much I never felt Star Wars on that damn thing at any point and that's what kills it for me to own it but I did just want to play it to try to have more fun on it as a game and see everything I wouldn't mind owning a premium maybe for a month or so just yeah yeah I agree agree the left rant that everybody's talking about it's true it's hard to hit that's clunky at the wrap-around nascar effect this is one ball it's pretty cool that's neat but it's pretty good it's nothing it's just one we didn't see the death store open up now we're not that good now we barely saw the damn track today I'm still confused when I play that yeah so it was just it's whatever I don't think give me a good at that I like deep code man but and here lately I've been playing circus Voltaire and I've fallen in love with circus Voltaire but that is very basic like it they could take that and make it just a little bit deeper instead of jumping into the uber deep multiplier being wet like I like deep games to like it Keith P. Johnson you mean Keith P. Johnson 30 months yeah I like that give me wizard modes don't give me money I don't mind it maybe with Star Wars it'll open up to me if I want it but okay they said ghostbusters code was to follow after the Star Wars is complete our Star Wars gets to 1.0 are they gonna do the little library I'm a wizard final wizard no I'm just looking for something oh great guess what I sold my my beloved ghostbusters yeah so you guys I wiped out my entire collection I sold my Tron hey man I sold my shadow with controversy they're pretty machines oh I feel so bad for her I got a Guardians galaxy you guys are gonna see stream here shortly and Houdini's coming and we're gonna review an alien coming up here aren't we buddy yeah round off my face intriguing okay that's something special next on our list Christopher and she was interviewed here on Kennedy's pinball podcast so a week or two ago but a week ago and terrific interview you guys need to go check it out I still like that guy Frankie how do you - yeah seems like a really cool guy any straight-up mm-hmm [ __ ] you know check out the interview he he does a really good job of kind of talking about the inspiration behind his our package working with Marvel then again that's the sort of stuff we were talking about that that needs to be on like that somebody like Franchi said explain your artwork explain the colors explain where you come and guess what it doesn't have to be informational just have fun with it yeah just literally speak woman speak yeah what's from the heart yeah just say and then edited a little bit so that looks like a good product package just oh but anyway what he said on there is that he kind of confirmed that he was working with Kapil on next title and of course Chris was doing his damnedest to get the theme you know he knew better but he's gonna try access what he does and Bravo to him for that but he said Franchi said that it is not a theme anyone will have to worry about and it is universal kind of loved by all Wow Wow what does that mean we know it's not the Beatles why nobody likes the Beatles no I think yeah universal Beatles jaws is universal I mean there's a lot of ways to go it could be it is pretty cool but back to the future mr. fancy that would be cool the bones eyes oh man so I'm looking forward to that American pinball update there are the makers of Houdini yeah I loved how they keep low-key they do keep low-key but they're they have time though guys it's time to start because they are answering questions is Loki's there their answer questions they look like addressing concerns and things very very promptly I feel like that that's a good thread I feel like the height is growing little by little I agree there was massive highs yeah hide down a little bit of height died down but now I think it's a it's a slow boil slow burn it is it's it's coming a slow burn and I think that that that I would love to go up there and get some video of this yeah some good video for people right so hopefully hopefully American pinball releases some video or has somebody do some video for it yeah that's what they need right before they start shipping these agreed that way that there's that massive that real closing of hype and in there because I know they're getting people's doors it's not what American pinball's gonna be stuck with is people like me streaming it which I'd like to think my stream sir pretty awesome but if not there could be just any Joe Blow stream and this thing and it might not put the best light on it that's very true so they are on the ones that happen they're online they're gonna trickle out because they're not a big manufacturer yet but they'll get there okay highway pinball aliens are shipping yes steal something some shoes here and there but of significant note barry eisler supposed to be doing the next title for highway pinball and they said they're gonna announce what it is at TPF or Texas pinball Festival 2018 and with this being if this is true I think that this is somewhat of a comforting it's like a warm blanket ain't gonna solve and you drop it on me for making but it's good ology for a table but it's gonna feel good warm blanket it's gonna feel good it's gonna make you it's gonna summon your stress I hate to tell you but right now Houdini or Naju teeny Highway pinball I hate to tell you but the only blanket I'm getting from them his old woolly scratchy bastard I don't want to sleep with but it was nothing just felt good from that company this is the warm woolly scratchy blanket because plainly it at least says that it at least says that they are potentially going to continue and grow as a company with the announcement of another game I'm not taking it as to heart I'm not taking it as their word okay and stone I'm just saying that that at least that that can help ease some fears that they're not easy it's still like an ease but it helps it just helps it just helps it's just small no it does there's things worse why when did they get your hopes up saline was coming up or like when do they announce they're gonna make a pinball machine called alien yeah but there was a lobby there was a lot of problems hopefully things are why announce something this soon in the game you're not even shipping alien yet I think that they just get a thousand machines out and then tell us what the day of next game we want to help ease those fears no all right we went to the grand old game room Expo in Nashville Tennessee we've got a walkthrough that you guys can check out on our youtube channel partner yeah I loved it there's quite a bit more games than when I thought I never sewed nicely - I did like the layout really clusters sir grant you know you didn't have to wait too much for games like the center stage was lariat flipping out flipping out pinball and Marko specialties teamed up and they brought the ultimate stern booth complete with banners and Star Wars and Aerosmith Batman 66 that was a cool Batman that was really neat I was I was happy to be a part of that Tiger he's fun and then somebody I think Jay Gentry sorry it was a jade yeah I think so he brought he unboxed a TA yeah and brought it which was the head of the show dude thank you yeah unbelievable it's like what kind of a guy are you dealing with it I'm boxes a team a there to play with I don't want talk too much about it because I want to review it oh we're about to review yeah so I don't want to give her hands on one because there's not a hole there so yeah we do picture also didn't it some of it did it's fast really fast thanks again man for the TNA yeah it kind of helped make the show that didn't sound right thanks again man for the TNA appreciate I'll call you next week yeah alright what were your favorite game or games at grand old game room TNA was up there TNA he's always a favor yeah so Tina yeah you did you were you were saying you know what I like that old TNA yeah I enjoyed it quite a bit man 66 I had a good time on its a penguin mode like I've heard about this GD penguin mode every time we talk about this game on the phone he brings up penguin penguin mode didn't get out and then I I beat the penguin mode yeah and then somehow like a minute later I'm back in the penguin mode is this still like out on the code guys where you can open up a mode you defeated if so stupid your problem but I know I didn't know that maybe this all just keeps it and it did that his hands apart mm the penguin tournament players compete one mode I don't want to play the people that will be here show me something besides the penguin my favorite games I love the mousing around there I really want to find our house and around was fantastic and it had the Bally flippers on it which I wasn't crazy about or not the bat the older-style Bally flipper whitewater wasn't gorgeous oh it was kudos to you've not the best game in the world but at2 was there that was beautiful one of the most beautiful there was some mousing around was that's a system living I'd like to well I did not play a messing around people loved it like so many people were telling us that it was pretty so those are two titles I'm looking for now hmm that's why I like shows it puts things on my radar that would help whitewater made me want one God that was gorgeous the powder coated everything I was just pretty alright so let's go on to anything else anything else I think that about sums it up a little controversy on my shadow basically short the short story is I had it listed at first let me get rid of it but I knew I needed to so I had listed high ball 2 ha you kept busting my balls about it and it was like dude you're like 402 hot yeah brass police yeah Oh God they were there were squads coming after that was on their side I felt like a fugitive with the price police on this time so and then for those of you there sticking up for me thank you so much the truth is that's not [ __ ] it was easily a $4,500 shadow with stuff that I had on it the condition everybody the sanctum where what shadow doesn't have to thinking where this one at the decal I don't know what was underneath it yadda yadda yadda a color DMZ I think I think 43 was good good but I agree because okay I sell the damn thing 438 here's the only reason that I would ever defend Zak on that is I'm not a big mod person obviously we know this and I don't think mods add a lot of values oh used to say mods don't add any value well but this is what I'm gonna do okay certain things like a color DMV yeah that's that's that's your brain yeah uh uh you know things like those pin stadiums on there that's that's not the all right pack like you yeah artifact you have to have yeah yeah you kind of gotta have it it's it's nice a lot of money it's better to have it you're gonna buy one anyway it's gonna cost you a lot of money exactly exactly so so certain things like that that are on there I feel hold their value to it you know yeah uh at least 60% value yeah just take the thing off buy it and then take it off and sell it if you to make you some of you might that but but I think those things actually hold some value we go to the biggest problem that was the complaint here and you know I don't know if I should bring this up but I'm gonna bring it up the time and so the sanctum where nobody's was clean but it was disfigured that's what was wrong with this thing I wouldn't dare do and all burned up sort of reconfigured sanctum an Augmented sanctum yes and so this sanctum you're like augmented know while it did not photograph well damn thing when it was turned off but that's my that's what I was talking to Zack I said you know what and I said I'm guilty of this I would be a sanctum looker no I looked at it when I bought it I thought yeah silly poor don't link yes but when you really take that the whole entire play field was immaculate it was beautiful and you got that one spot in the back basically hidden yeah you really even with the piece yeah you did not you didn't know I don't care it should it should reflect their cost I agree with it I do a girl when some people were hopping on their old chairs a $2,500 kid because of the sanctum get the hell out of here shadows a $2,500 pic yeah yeah it's just one of those things that I think that have slowly got the bigger point is cuz I don't give a [ __ ] I sold the damn thing for 3,800 to one of our fans he was one of her fans like dude you know wow that's a hell of a deal thanks for the support watching her show here you go it was a colored DMD is a pretty game so take that [ __ ] off there's like a $3,000 nine so yeah so shadow but the bigger point is who is to say how much a pin is worth well the thing that I hate hearing is game X is not a $3,000 pin mm-hmm who's to say yeah but who's to say what an $8,000 pin is because there's there $78,000 pins that are not $17,000 worth of game to me there's two factors yes two factors ones market yes market fluctuates yes what I bought twelve paper for today is not the same as I buy told picked for twenty years ago I don't think but it's not it's you don't I mean it's that number one point number 1 points market fluctuates you'll see some pins take a high take a look yeah Hobbit took a low but now if you watch watch what happens if snarky comeback it's gonna bleed up a little bit and it's gonna go up a little bit the other the other words desire you're always gonna have that guy looking for a nice one and if demand is there supplies not there they might spend a little bit more for one yeah so if you combine market and desire there's no right or wrong here now if I listed the damn channel for $6,000 I expect price police to come and say what the hell is your problem people set the market yeah like it's it's set by it by whatever somebody is we'll look at the WWE I got for sale the damn thing is that $3,300 it's a new pin it doesn't sell yeah that's a market it's worth that I'm gonna give my opinion based sort of on my feelings I think that the number one problem of why people get pissed off oh this is gonna be controversial careful there it will be controversial obviously the way I feel and I think that if people took a step back and they really looked at what's going on it's a lot of that too okay why would you go pace what's what's a uh Elvira and the party monsters going for Elvira's party monster clothes for three a little bit more now okay you take that pin compared to the shadow of God why is it why is it why is it worth that it okay because of the theme because they okay exactly so my problem is is that I feel that the reason most people are so priced policie mmm-hmm and so upset is because it pushes a pin out that they like another pin out of their price range out of their reach because if I got money I don't give I don't give a [ __ ] what your your shadows priced that I'll give you five grand for that son of a [ __ ] if I've got money yeah but if I don't have a lot of money I'm like oh my god dude no no that's a $3,000 pin because I wanna buy it I want those pins to stay in that reach because now that's another pin that has been elevated to a price point that I can't touch and I caught myself doing that that's the only reason that the thought has come up is if I finds a gap in something like know your PIN is not worth that [ __ ] I get frustrated wait and that's cuz I can't afford it and we're kind of newer into the hobby yeah so I I imagine it would be tough for some of you guys out there who have been in the hobby ten fifteen years and you just see the price sorry that does suck now would I go so far as to jump on somebody's thread and no that's just not me and I don't like when people do it to me I don't mind I'd want to yeah I want to - I do but I hold back I don't mind when they jump on line but when I felt like that that's that's that's why that I've come to the conclusion that I feel there cuz I stepped back and I'm squad hell because it doesn't matter I think this guy can price it if he doesn't sell cuz I have to soar it off that okay I was like well has people jumping this guy's ahead not you but just anybody's asking you about these Pitts like it's their pin to sell so what if you don't like it skip over the thread don't buy the son of a [ __ ] but I found myself getting shitty and feeling very angry at some of these people but it's always an option for people if you list your things for sale and you don't want to hear some of the feedback then you don't don't let it in like when people are like don't dog this guy talking about me I'm no like that's what this is for like you can say whatever the hell you want to say I can lead a you know a renaissance against me I don't care yeah if the pin is good it will sell if the pin is not priced well I know I know we're coming close on time here but let's go into this cuz this sort of and this has got to do app inside one thing go for this one of the haters I have to one of the haters that was bashing me on the price yeah actually offered me more than it sold for I think again it's sort of that thing about what you want it to stay in an affordable price yeah but here's a problem that I have and I ran it this is a current problem on inside and again we don't like to announce things or direct attention right at certain people I do you do but I ran into this sort of with my x-files when I had my project x-files why in the pink community is a bidding war not acceptable why is it not acceptable to raise a price on a pin when you have been flooded with Presta cos when I had that that that my x-files yeah I thought that I really like gave it as it's not eBay that's why yeah not an overly be up at a house you take a house your house ain't on eBay I'm bidding more if I listed my house bird for $300,000 and somebody came in at a three hundred and ten thousand dollar bid everyone accepts the three hundred ten thousand dollar bid it's nothing well somebody came in at three hundred and they were the very first people through the door no you're gonna take the truck it's fine I cannot part pin culture no it doesn't really happen no you it's shame you get beat down yes I know it happens because I wanted to raise the / I got so many calls people want to drive we got a ridiculous distances for that shitty x-files that was a project I was very upfront with it I told everybody everything that I knew about the thing yeah but then I felt I priced it too low and I probably could have was another 200 bucks out of it or more now what pen side doesn't like to do doesn't like to do is she did this the other day he just got he got drove over he said yeah best offer and he got shut down real quick cuz you can't do it but I don't think that without a price yeah ya know what's a starting point that's but no yeah I think that's ridiculous but but you know it is a weird thing I think that I'm legit just didn't know how much they went for yeah didn't want to screw himself he didn't ask too much oh yeah there's a reason behind it he's a smart guy it's just that he just yeah but you know what I'm saying like why do you not bid like like why is that not accept but it's just not it's frowned upon I go with it I go with it obviously how do you feel about people who list things cheap take him down and then list them higher well that's what I'm saying yeah like I feel it's the same basically the same thing I know it's a little worse yeah I would be pissed but if a guy said listen I got this game listed for 5 grand I just had a guy for me 5200 M hmm do you can you match that or go over it you were my first person I'd be like you know what if I really want this game is still a fair price I tell you baby no that's what I'm saying though but you're you're an advocate for it you just said oh it's fine to do before but if you confirm with the person it's just all etiquette man if somebody calls me and say dude you won $5,000 for your pain I'll give you $5,000 and if I say so and somebody calls me and says I'll give you fifty five hundred but that's what you you can't do it I agree I slice I stick with it I still agree yeah but in any other pics out there to do it though but in any other kind of market it's someone acceptable to take that that higher bid again it it goes to it's a first come first serve it goes down to conversation you and I have had with some other podcast as well as other people in general just be a decent human being yeah just be a decent human being in all those and capitalism human being and if you're not that's fine but you're gonna get a bad name nobody's gonna mess with you yeah we're gonna create a circle of decent human beings I'm somewhat mixed on and we're gonna play in our own little sandbox the decent human being sandbox mmm are you decent we need a rare rulebook we do the guide to pinball etiquette buy sell and play and yeah pinball etiquette SDT and pinball yeah that'll work on that or let me let me rephrase it I'll work on that let's do a coffee table book I'll shoot all of it all the pictures okay that's gonna be it this week you guys I'm Zack this is Greg check us out on Facebook check us out on twitch this guy's streaming our big bad boy Chuck work or favor guy ever rules boy god Chuck where we love that dude he's representing SDTM on his streams I'm streaming as well hopefully get some fresh machines and not a stream whenever I want to play a game I just say you know what i'ma turn on this computer on my turn on some cameras and I'm gonna show you what I wanna do with that sweater long stand up show on the sweater I wanted to review the lost world in this shirt because this is my favorite sweater you want to know how much of an 80s 90s kidz I am here staying back up you know that reminds me of Reptar offer the three wise tea breaks they can barely hold the gifts with yellow hands it's a struggle but all right guys check us out on there check out the code worse that you can win that happy holiday holiday happy kid away yeah see you next week you get it [Music] you had a plane way the slingshot you roll an iboutlet are gay no smell the pizza a chance over here get to go on it'll be like a marathon people are gonna love it [ __ ] dig asaurus rex it's fitting christmas is so fitting to Jurassic Park really that what you're going with