You know the upper left flipper in Godzilla, right? It's literally like having sex with a limp penis. It's the Patreon fun bag, or whatever we're calling this, here in the green room with Cengiz, myself, Don. How you doing? But also, why do I have a Jamaican accent all of a sudden? also with Enzo and ACDC, Akadaka for some fun times, okay guys, gents please, let's continue oh man, I think this is, when was our last show was that like a month ago or something too long ago and we have got Enzo in here today, it's so cool man welcome Enzo, how I doing my friend yeah good boys, what's going on brothers dude, like this guy's totally slaying it out of nowhere, like you've usurped the loser kids grabbing interviews with everybody as soon as their hot content drops. It should be Enzo's Pinball Flipperama, I mean, if we're being honest, right? Yeah, Enzo's anywhere. You want to know the funny thing is that growing up as a kid, my nickname was actually Gonzo. Because of the size of my nose. Oh, yeah, I was going to make fun of you about that, too. Yeah, but I totally see that. Gonzo with the schnons. I keep having to correct everyone because everyone thinks that I'm Gonzo on the channel because I'm doing so much content. Yeah. Enzo Bagatelli, I think, is your name, right? Actually, at the beginning, when we did shout-outs for when you made some shows, Enzo, so I said, I just want to give a shout-out to Enzo on Gonzo. And people were like, what the heck is that? What's he talking about? Is that something that's just, you know, made up name? No, no. So it's on Gonzo's Flip-O-Rama and Enzo. You're like 50% of the channel, or how is it? No, well, see, the channel belongs to Chris. I was just a big fan. A couple of years ago, I reached out to him just commenting on one of the videos, and we just started talking. We had a lot of common interests. We both like football or soccer, as they call it in the USA. Soccer. And soccer. and I just said, man, I want to, you know, let's, he goes, oh, come on the channel, let's chat and then next minute I'm doing content with him and then about three months ago I said to him, I want to do more and he's like, man, go free reign, just do whatever you want on the channel, just let me know what you're recording when and we won't make sure we're not doubling up or we're not, you know, flooding the market but yeah, I basically do my own thing and, you know, for me, I really love doing the lives and engaging with the community. So that's something that he wasn't doing on his channel. Thank you for doing that, man. More pimple content is always welcome. So you have been interviewing a lot of heavy hitters here lately. How do you? I've done heaps. I've actually lost track between Burrows of Fun with Dave, the boys from Spooky, obviously the team from Star Wars. I've got Jack Danger on the channel soon, I'm waiting for that to drop all that is peanuts compared to the crew from Multimorphic that was the get of the century man I've been trying to land those guys for years and they won't even return my calls although I like your Multimorphic Minute on the channel I'm just trying to highlight the special segment of the industry that they occupy in the Multimorphic Moment yeah so guys this one is a special Patreon episode. On this episode, we're going to talk about what has been going on, where has Donnie been, how was my experience with it, and Don wants to have this on to our Patreon supporters. So let's just jump over to the Patreon cut, and we're going to talk about this awesome thing that Don has been doing. And I feel like I'm also part of it because this is just too good to be true. so let's jump over there are you ready donnie or do you want to say something before we jump over to the patreon is it time for the reveal i mean it's gonna come out anyway might as well hear it from me first yeah let's go yeah it's gonna go out yeah okay so we made a clip here and jumped there over there so enzo i don't know how much donnie has told you oh i like to think uh most of it yeah i think we're close enough friends to uh indulge in our secret love lives don't you i think i think you should just put it out there and say what you have been doing my friend so all right so basically what had happened was um i live here in wisconsin i'm local to chicago local to spooky local to benton i go to all the pinball factories and stuff i meet people and then i kind of ended up vibing with the spooky crew like quite a bit we'd meet it we'd hang out at shows, you know, buy and sell games, swing by the factory. It started to happen a little bit more and more. We got a lot of common interests, and we're all pretty chill peeps, right? Like the vibe level rules, right? And so they were just goofing one day, like, hey, there's a house available in Benton. You should just move down here and just make games with us. And I was like, oh, dude, can you imagine? Like how fun would that be, right? And then like a series of things happened all in a row. So, like, my contract at work was finishing up, so it's just kind of year to year now. So I kind of have an out. I got this new job offer. This house was available. And I was like, you know what? Like, what's really stopping me from doing that? Because that would be kind of incredible. So long story short, I now own a house in Benton. I've been on the factory a bit more frequently now, twisting screws and bolts on prototype games and things, talking design, hashing out concepts and things. and so while it's not anything like official like here you're heading a team and doing design I'm just collaborating there like any other local idiot but it went from like hey don't say nothing but come take a look at this game that's coming out in a couple months and give us some feedback to like hey come take a look at this game that's coming out in three years and give us some feedback and like the whole thing got surreal when I was visiting the site and like they took me into like their locked room their inner sanctum and I'm like dude is this is this even happening is this real you know it's like uh you know if you if you were hanging out after the after the big game or something and like the cheerleader like took you behind the shed or something you're like this isn't real I'm about to get jumped what's happening right the same kind of energy and then all of a sudden it's like there it is like this this this new game that's about to come out um and then I turn and look and like there's another one and then I look and like there's another one and I'm like that's not just you guys messing around with a homebrew like that's going to be a real product and I didn't even have that in the cards, to be honest. What the hell is happening? And so it's just been like super fun since then. Yeah. So like that's the big news. People would joke with me, you know, too. They would say, you know, Don, you buy enough pinball games that fill up your space and budget and then when you do that, you end up buying another house for more games. And I'm like, whatever, whatever. But no, this home is like I can fit twice as many games in there. is pre-wired with multiple circuits to handle that without blowing fuse boxes like I do at home here. So, like, what a crazy evolution this is. Like, it's all happening. Yeah. So, hold on. So, the other day when you were live and you were walking through that cornfield, right? Yes. And you magically appeared at Spooky. Right. Were you traveling from, like, this new house? Yeah, I walked straight up my backyard into the cornfield. and then came out 10 minutes later at Spooky Headquarters. Yeah, I got the cornfield highway. That was straight out the backyard, right into the corn. Oh, cool, man. That was nuts. That reminds me of that horror movie. What was that movie called with Mel Gibson? Signs. Signs? I was going to say Waterworld, but yeah, you're right. That's not Mel Gibson. Oh, man. Tony, first of all, congratulations. I'm so happy. I'm so proud of you. You at Spooky, it's so cool, man. I couldn't be more happier for you. My experience with this, let me share. Don is tired. Just relax, Don. The guy has been working. So, sometimes, Don, he shares everything with me. So, he hits me up and he's like, man, I'm getting closer and closer with Spooky. and fast forward, he's thinking about buying a house over at Spooky's Place from an employee, I think it was, or something like that. And I was like, are you serious, Donnie? And he's like, yeah. So some time passed by and something, something happened and he didn't get that house. So he was bummed out. He called me, I was bummed out. I was like, oh, no, we missed it. But, you know, Team Spooky, they were like, man, we want you over here, Donnie. So they offered him something much, much cooler. So Buck, he says, you know, my dad, Mr. Emery, he wants to move and sell his house so you can buy my dad's house. Isn't it cool? It turned out to be much better. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, much, much, much better. And I'm like, Donnie, man, so how close is this house to the spooky factory? And we're talking, and Donnie's like, oh, wait, because when I see the background where Donnie is, it's just a cornfield, just like Enzo said a second ago. So I asked him, how close is it to the spooky factory? And he's like, oh, wait. So he just turns, and then I can see in the background the spooky factory. I'm like, what the heck? You're just at the spot? And he's like, yeah, man. So he gives me the grand tour, Enzo. He walks into this house. He walks into the game room filled with classic games, amazing pinball machines, amazing arcade machines. And Donnie says he needs to redecorate because it's pretty spooky in there. So it's, you know, it has got Enzo. I don't know if Donnie has some videos or something. But it's a dungeon, man. You know, dungeon-looking walls and torches that light the room up and creatures from the Black Lagoon hanging there. All those crazy spooky stuff and film mobility. It's so cool. And a cinema, right, Tony? Absolutely. This is like the home that Elvira, the character, would live in is very much what it is. I mean, across between… With the sex dungeon or without the sex dungeon? I mean, anything's a sex dungeon with enough Carl Weathers. The first thing I said, Tony, make sure he leaves all those pinball machines to you. Did you do that? No, no way. No, no, but I'm glad I didn't have to help move out because that had to have been, there was like 25 to 30 games in that game room, and they were all great. It wasn't just all spooky games either. It was all kinds of Bally Williams things and really good versions of them. So I got my work cut out for me now, but my meager collection is only going to fill up half this room. So, yeah, that was crazy. Like, you know, normally what you do is you save up money for a year or so for the down payment, and then you try to, like, find the best rate and everything, and then you go buy a house. This was like, hey, can we put an offer on a house in this week just out of nowhere? And I'm like, I don't know, maybe if I sold a couple games. And then I happened to mention, like, four games I would consider parting with, and then they all sold. And that and a couple of shifts, and I was like, hey, I think we can pull this off. So there was a house available kind of on that same street, and we tried to go for it. And I put in an offer I could afford, and it wasn't accepted. They ended up getting a full-price offer, so God bless them for taking that. And I was a little bit bummed. And then, like, all of a sudden, this is available, and it's, like, even more tailor-fit for me. And by then, we had a little bit more money, so I was like, yeah, let's get it. Monica is very happy about this also. She is at Team Spooky also. So very good friends with Morgan also. So it's just such a good fit. She's probably more integrated than I am at this point, honestly. I mean, yeah, she's got like her own whole thing going on. That's the luck of like having a partner that's understanding and accepting and into it as well. Because, you know, my experience with this was I knew that something was going on because I kind of figured he's always there. He's really chummy with them. Inevitably, something's going to happen, right? and like me and Don have spoken many times about how cool would it be to work in pinball and just not have to work our normal jobs. Oh, man. And that's the dream. That's the dream, yeah. I'd love to do it. I would, but I'm never going to convince my wife to move to America, but I could start a Haggis 2.0. So he probably still has all those machines he stole out of the factory before the creditors showed up. so yeah so yeah like i was like i wasn't i was surprised but i kind of was like you know it was inevitable in from my you know because i've been you know we've been friends for a while now and i've been following your journey and you know you're always sending cheeky pictures and and i was so happy to hear it because i was like man it's everyone's dream is to be able to do what you love because then you don't work a day in your life and uh you know if you can do you know this full time, then fucking all power to you, mate. Yeah, and that team's spooky also. I mean, come on, right? I mean, yeah, so it's also a group of people that can tolerate my own brand of silly nonsense too. Like, I love the guys at Stern. Everybody there has been super cool to me. I love going over there. But I don't know if they would tolerate me like shooting arrows around the factory, you know, or... Yeah, you're not corporate. You're not corporate, Don. Or just making stupid stuff for fun, you know? It's just such a good fit. You just fit in there with those guys. Absolutely. It should be you people together from the beginning. It's just such a good fit. I'm loving this. What a success story, man. I'm more jealous that you know the next three games. Oh, my God. I mean, that's the curse, right? All of a sudden, it's like this is the coolest thing ever, and you turn around and you're like, I can tell nobody about this, and everybody's going to think I'm an asshole when I don't give them a little teaser. because a little teaser is never going to be enough and you're just going to feel like shitty. I had that a little bit with Predator. We were dealing and obviously Changus was dealing with the boys at Pinball Brothers and I was dealing with them a couple of weeks before it came out and there were things that we knew and that was two weeks. You're dealing three years. And you stingy bastards don't share anything with me. I didn't get any leaks at all. You guys are iron tight, man. No, I just send everything to Kerry. okay okay that's fair but you guys you know how i am i'm just when i when i give my word i give my word i'm so sorry i'm just i'm built like that i'm so sorry you know i like that though because it is fun to get a reveal when the game's available of here's everything you know no potato cams or anything i mean if there's a leak i'm gonna look at it because i can't help myself but like with star wars i was able to avoid even like that day before when things were leaking out but I stayed away from it. So my first visage into the new Star Wars game was in the conference room at Stern when they hit play on the trailer, and it's like, here's our game. It's true, Enzo. It's true because I had everything, and Don, he was like, I don't want to see anything. I'm like, are you sure? And he's like, yeah, I don't want to see anything. I want to see the real trailer. Okay, I respect that. He told me the same thing. He's like, don't send me anything I don't want to know. I was like, and how are you holding this secret for three years? Yeah, I don't know, man. But, yeah, that's the tough thing because, like, you know, I don't want to divulge too much, but, like, I wish they could build 3,000 games a year and just dump everything right now because we all play them. It's all awesome. All three games are, like, playable and everything? I mean, everything's a continuum, right? So the reason you can't do that, it's not that the design takes that long. It's not that you're waiting on the art. It's the coding and the approvals and things. You could turn around and release a game every couple of months, but it wouldn't have any deep code in it. That takes time. You can shoot the shots. You can shoot the hell out of the shots, man. I'm surprised at how quickly just a shootable layout can come together. from concept to reality. When you have the CAD right there and then you're running over and screwing ball guides on a piece of wood, shooting it, going back, changing something, shooting it, and then putting it into production downstairs, get production parts, throw them in, and now you have a game. That whole process is so quick and so efficient. It's fun. It really is. And then getting it into the cabinet. I've been mucking around with Pinball Designer and I want to design a game. and, like, you put stuff in position, it's not as easy as what everyone thinks it is. Like, to get the flow and to get things in the right spot, like, it is a lot of tinkering. Millimeter accurate tinkering. Now, Enzo, honestly, come on. How hard can it be? All you need to do is start a pinball company, sell games for about 12 years, take hits and slings and arrows for about seven of those years, and then you got it, right? Yes. How hard is that? Just do a haggis and just chat GPT some artwork and then tell everyone this is the game. and let's take your deposits. And then move to Jamaica. Dude, that's the saddest... Did he move to Jamaica, really? He's gone. I have no idea. Oh, man. Shenanigans. They didn't even make the helmets and the leather jackets for Centaur, man. That's what I wanted. Screw the game. I'd buy the game and sell it. I wanted the leather jacket. How much was the price with that Centaur with helmet and everything? Was it like $8,000 or something for the super elite helmet jacket? Oh, no. The Orbital Edition or whatever? that thing was like 16 000 australian oh man i think he's in jamaica now then darn it man do they use uh do they use ultra cat or do they use a that program they use for making virtual pinball oh no it's a program do they use it's a legit cad yeah yeah and yeah and the guys are a whiz with it so i would love to learn that skill at some day man because they're just moving stuff around and making stuff like that like coming from you know designing 3d printed parts and just kind of like using a slicer as my cad program to like what they're doing like god that would be such a huge step up but like you know all i wanted to do was just have fun and pinball really and then um you know i started learning how to make parts really rudimentary at first you know just kind of piggybacking off other people's designs then slowly learning you know skills to make more stuff and it's just i've just been making cool stuff here in my basement and Other people enjoy it. They reach out and they want to buy stuff, so I'll do runs for people. And so now this is just like another extension of a way to just have fun and pinball and make cool stuff with like the people that are making the coolest stuff right now, like honestly. Yeah. Yeah. So they have lined up a couple of games already. So are you going to be a supporting designer, go in and finesse those games, or have you been talking about, Donnie, we have got Nightmare on Elm Street, do want to make that game and you will have your own studio design games. What's the plan now? I know it's early. I'm not getting my own studio or nothing. I got a lot to learn. It's just kind of a collaborative process. Let's hang out and make some cool stuff. We're starting with that and we'll see how it goes. Hopefully I can be helpful and useful. I'm willing to push it as far as they'll let me. I want you to play and I think Enzo will agree with this I want you to play a lot of games from the 90s you have 5% of experience with the 90s games they are filled with great shots and toys and we have to modernize all of those great ideas and put them on these new games because I feel like some of these new game releases are so barren I'm sorry So I mean as a design philosophy I think it more about having a layout that feels good to shoot and doesn really try to reinvent the wheel too much But where you really do a lot of the experimenting and pushing the elements is with theme integration and code and different ways to utilize those mechanisms and shots that are already proven to have worked, right? If you try to come up with some unique shot no one's ever seen before, unless you have a team of engineers back there and, like, hours and hours to troubleshoot that, you're going to have high potential for jank, you know, and nobody wants that. You know, we love orbits to wireforms that come looping back. We like physical ball locks. We like mechanisms where the ball goes in there and does something. Or when you walk up to a machine and you see a layout and you're like, there, I want to get my ball there and do that thing. Now how do I do that and work backwards? So go back and find things that people loved in the past that worked really well for a 90s game and then find a new way to implement that same feel. What I meant by it was let's take a modern game. Stern Star Wars. We have the AT-AT, but you don't hit it. You hit a target, and it crashes. On the other hand, we have got Medieval Madness, where the building crashes in tracks with the ball, right? So if we could take something from the 90s and put some more in there. Now, as the game, the No Good Gophers, what's it called? No Good Gophers, that's it. Yeah, 96 or something. This ramp falls down, and when you hit it, the ball jumps over to the second level and hits the golf cart or something. It's flying air balls. It's so cool. We need to reuse some of those cool, cool stuff. Yeah, the Medieval Madness mech, I mean, it's not just a castle that disappears. I mean, it's got a shot through the castle wall to start locking balls there. It's got a bash toy into the portcullis, and then that gate opens, and now you have a bridge that's worked as a ball diverter, and now you can bash into the castle. And then the castle does this magical thing with the ball locked there, so you can actually take a moment and say, I did this thing, let me watch it happen, and then it goes back into the game. And that's taking one six-square-inch area of the play field and doing all these different cool things with it. So what I've seen from Spooky is, if you look at Evil Dead, everywhere between two ball guides where there's a little wedge where typically somebody would just put a plastic and that's it they put something in there, whether it's a Newton ball to a hidden switch or something instead of just a post, or it's a Vuck that goes into a wire form, or it's a drop into a subway that does something I think I'm part of that reason because I think when I, years back I reviewed the that game with the castle, what's it called? They have a castle at the back. Oh, Alice Cooper. Yeah. Yeah. I was dissecting that game, and I showed with errors, here is a post, here is a post. You just hit this rubber and straight down the middle, rubber. And I watched that video like a month ago or something, and I was like, oh, my God, I was so evil back then. But I think that was part of the reason because after that, nothing like that. they have standoff targets or drop-down targets no dead posts anymore so cool yeah i mean if you have an area do something with it enzo please the floor is yours no no i'm just saying i i'm glad you brought this up because i recently went through this conversation and also this change myself because i was extremely heavy stern uh game wise like just too many sterns and they all started feeling very similar and then i started venturing dipping my toe into like 90s and 80s games and then you start kind of realizing that these 80s 90s like you star trek next generation twilight zone family uh all these games that like they've got so much character and soul yes that you play them johnny mnemonic oh yes he's like a sleeper like that's a game that people I can't believe how many people haven't played that. And that game to me is like, it is, you know, that tells, tells from the crypt. Um, so all these games that have got so much character. Yeah. Shadow. Come on. Shadow's got character for days. My eyes are getting, I love talking about old games. Donnie doesn't talk that much about old games. I'm loving this. I'm going, I'm going the other way. Like I'm wrecking now. I'm like 60, 70% older games. Oh, Oh, I love it. So imagine. Johnny Mennonick is so cheap still. Such a sleeper. Everybody's like, when the hand is broken, the game is trash. We have got Johnny Mennonick on location for like 10, 15 minutes, 15 years. I never repaired that hand. It just works. Such a cool. And it's just such a 90s feeling. I'm making a long-distance phone call. You know, Cyber Matrix, 90s computers. 4 megabytes of data I need 220 megabytes Stargate's another good one Stargate, yeah Which one? Stargate Yeah, Gottlieb I mean, so like, those layouts are incredible Like, you look at Tales from the Crypt and there's wireforms everywhere, how do I get from this one to this one Super fun, but you know, with those games, the code from the 90s is like, this mode is just 30 seconds have hit this target. Now this mode has 30 seconds hit this ramp. Now imagine taking modern code design and modern gameplay and putting it in those kind of layouts. I think we've moved away from those great layouts from the 90s. Shadow had multiple ball diverters, so the same shot up the same ramp could end up at different areas. What's the best thing about the AWPOP playfield of Shadow? It's basically like playing Arkanoid, man. That's awesome. That's scary, man. Love it. But even simple things like the shadow's magnet that would take the ball and then throw it into the hideout. You know, and then we saw that come back again in other games. Looney Tunes and TCM uses that. And when I saw that, I'm like, oh my god, they went to that element of the shadow that was super fun and now they're utilizing it here. Perfect. Isn't that cool? Yes. Isn't that cool? Man, he should have made Dungeons and Dragons should have been the shadow layout. Because if you look at that upper playfield on shadow, that could have been a castle. and that could have been you like or a dungeon or whatever and you could have been using that mech that layout is just there's something about it and that was his first game right that was his first design and you know whereas D&D is just for me it was such a miss the layout is just so clunky I've heard you saying that you're not a you like Stern games but you're just not fan of which did you buy one of them or did you just i had dnd and after four weeks it was like gone which version did you get i had a premium okay yeah we're gonna geometry shots on that are just not right we're gonna everything's about getting the ball to the upper flipper to make those two shots that you can't make from any other flipper there's a lot of stop and starting right The thing that shits me the most about this game is that it's actually the most unique pinball experience that Stern's done in 10 years because it's got extremely great storytelling. It's got captivating characters. The call-outs are fantastic. The travelling is great. The levelling up is great. But then you've made a game that, like, my five-year-old can't shoot. Like, you brick every shot, basically. Like, it is not fun to play. And that's not just me saying it. Carl D'Python Anghelo got rid of his. Jeff from Dirty Pinball hates it. Like, there is just something not right about the fun. It's not fun. If only the game had a shield mechanism that would line up shots for you and that you could strategically utilize. Then it works. This is so odd for me because, Gonzo, you're saying this, and last week when I talked with Donnie, he was like, the game I'm playing the most is Dungeons & Dragons, and I'm loving it. It's just insane. This is confusing for me. No, because it's good. The storytelling is addictive. I want to travel. I want to fuck shit up. I do. But I can't make the shots. It is just so hard to make, especially that little shot that's next to the spinner on the right-hand side, the little U shot that takes you back to the upper flipper. You make that, but it's a fluke if you've made that. You can't aim for that. Is it because the shots are too tight? Is that the reason? What is it? Or is it the layout that's just too hard for you? I think it's geometry issues, personally, but everyone's like, everyone thinks I'm being too critiquey, but, you know, Jeff agrees with me from Dirty Pool. He's like, man, I'm glad you're thinking it, because I'm thinking it too. I will say that the gameplay of that game is the best part. You know, logging in, making every game you play matters, because your progress is saved as far as what you're unlocking. Now, some of those modes, they're really fun, but there's several levels to them, and if you can't get past, like, that second monster before you get to the boss, and it's just playing the same mode every time, getting to the troll and getting your ass handed to you because you can't hit that one shot that the shot's locked on, that's frustrating. Yeah. Oh, I hate when stuff like that happens. When you have this last shot and you cannot get it. Oh! Yeah, and the modes are deep and they're multifaceted. You start off just killing some rats and then you have to shoot to go down a level. Now there's a troll or two, and then once you beat them, then you're going down battling the Crystal Dragons or something. The code's phenomenal. like Dwight Sullivan's a genius but when you've made a game that was designed to bring new people into the hobby and you've made it that hard to shoot it's just a miss for me it is disappointing because it's just a miss but you know look and that's the fun of pinball it's not for everybody I'm sure there's people that love it and are not having the issue like but you know Carl D'Python Anghelo is like top 20 in the world and he got rid of the game for the exact reasons I'm saying it do you know what I mean he's a streamer right called yeah yeah yeah I saw him play Dune a couple of weeks ago wow that video changed my mind completely about Dune I don't know if you watched his gameplay video I think D&D is the type of game that if you're a cool cat who's like really relaxed which is Donnie right and he doesn't get rage quitting I rage quit like if a game pisses me off It pisses me off and then I can't play for two days. Throw it off the window. Take it personal. I flipped that 180 kilo table. Whereas like, I've noticed that the people that say that D&D is like they like it are the cats that are cool, calm and collective and just really laid back, right? Whereas if you just take each ball that gets bricked too personally, like me and probably Jeff and probably Carl, right? So then it's not the game for you, right? It's that Italian blood in your intro. It's that Italian blood that's boiling inside of you. Apparently. You know, we can probably roll reverse on something like James Bond, though, like a game that I just can't get myself quite into, and everybody just loves the hell out of it, like irrationally so. I can make the shots. It's just that I'm not having a ton of fun. I'd rather play something else, you know. Deadpool kind of does that to me, too. Like, this is a theme that I should absolutely jump into. Juvenile humor, 16-bit graphics. Like, that's super fun. Oh, come on. Deadpool is amazing, man. I just must not be the right type of player. And so what do you think about Deadpool? Oh, yeah, look, Deadpool is probably one of my top five stands. Oh, yes. Donnie, you have to play it some more. But play the LE. I haven't played the other versions. I only played the LE. The stupid metal ramp thing that goes from the shooter lane after the orbit back to an in lane, that's stupid. Why is that a thing? Why is that a feature on the premium LE? Oh, I got the premium LE. I get the disco ball is cool. I like the disco ball. The pro still has a locking sword, but they made this little, it's like you're in traffic on a detour. It's like, oh, here, a little flap. And then we're going to put your ball in the in lane for you. It was just going to be in the shooter lane anyway. Let me just shoot it again. What's going on? But have you seen the glitter and everything on the Ellie, on armor? That red powder coat with gold inside. Come on. It is better with the drop targets and the stand-ups for sure. Yeah, when you play the mech, is it called mech shoot? Mech shoot multiple, yeah. Yeah. Also his mode, you have to hit those drop-down targets, eight drop-down targets. And the game is different when it's stand-up targets. It accelerates the ball the wrong way. Drop-down tires are just much more. But back then, we paid like $7,500 for the LE. So it was a cheap game, you know. Good old days. It's satisfying. That Deadpool shot when you hit the ramp to lock the ball in the samurai sword. Oh, that swing shot. That's great. I love that. I love that. I do love that. I wish James Bond had some of that, you know. James Bond kind of has like those bricky shots. The whole Vuck with the underwater scene, I don't like that whole area because there's no point to being there. And then the Vuck just kind of shoots up into either the stand-up target or the two pop bumpers, which are both running off the same coil, which bugs me for some reason. The best shot is the spinner shot, the left orbit to the ramp. I love that every time. That's a cool shot. You can just hear the spinner spinning until the ball comes all the way back to you. Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. I think that Bond is one of Stern's top three games ever made. Do you like the theme? I do, of course. Yeah, I love the theme. Donnie, do you like the theme? I do. I do like the theme. And when I play it now that the code's more complete, I get that it's deep and there's a lot of fun stuff to do in there. I'm having more fun with it now than I did when it came out. You could trickle the ball in at the left. What's it called, the diver on the left? What's that shot called? Diver shot or what is it? Yeah, I think it's just the underwater scoop diver. Underwater shot, yeah. The ball just falls in there, and the newest code, they're using that area. A lot of modes want you to hit that place. So when the ball just trickles in there, sometimes it just falls in there, it shoots the ball up, and it falls in the same place again. So you get two shots in there. So cool. They're utilizing it now. Now look at, like Dungeons & Dragons has a similar setup there with Fismo shot under the mimic, right? Where it goes in and then the ball kicks out across the play field. But then most of the time it's grabbed by a magnet, fed to a flipper, and then you can access those shots. And James Bond, when I do get that shot, which is kind of an up under flipper shot, because the upper flipper, you've got to move it out of the way to kind of kick in there. It's where you get your extra ball. But then your reward for that is just here's the ball back into chaos. I love that mod that the Australian dude came up with where instead of kicking out, it kicks up into a wire form and feeds back to the flipper for like a controlled shot. Then I feel like I'm getting rewarded for making that kind of tricky shot rather than just more chaos. But I have issue with stuff like that because you change the designer's idea of the game. I think it's more like you're completing their work, really. You know what? I think the biggest problem with Bond, I love the theme. I really like the game. I think the biggest problem is, I think you two guys, you're right-handed, right? Yeah, I'm right-handed also. Most people are right-handed. If they just mirrored that layout so the upper left flipper was on the right side, so you shoot with the right hand with all those awesome ram shots, that game would be top 10 on pin side. Oh, man. Yeah. Think about it when you design a game, upper right flipper. never upper left do it the upper right just think about what i'm saying here yeah i can see it in your eyes playing something because i'm thinking i'm thinking elton john i'm thinking star trek i'm thinking other star trek yeah whirlwind with that right shot yeah satisfying and then family right upper right flipper oh satisfying and then what's what's the left upper flip oh teenage ninja turtles yeah up on the left yeah yeah that's on the left yeah i think you got something there buddy Twilight Zone has a tiny left flipper on Twilight Zone yeah Godzilla though Godzilla though Godzilla though has a left flipper upper flipper yes and it sucks it sucks that upper left flipper is so unsatisfying that magnet that magnet that feeds the upper left it's just so bad man you know the upper left flipper in Godzilla right it's literally like having sex with a limp penis oh I'm going to have to take your word for that, sir. Because any penis I'm playing with is always fully erect. Wait a minute. That's the start of this show. That's Enzo's intro. But, you know, if your Godzilla is not, you know, in perfect position, that magnet holds the ball, and it just lets it go, and you flip with that upper left flipper, and it hits just at the end point and doesn't make the whole shot. It doesn't work. So, Donnie, all the games at Spooky, when you go in there tomorrow, you're like, guys, all the upper flippers to the right side. Now, talking flippers and talking Spooky, right, that sling flipper on Evil Dead is extremely satisfying. How fun was that? When you hit that left orbit, right, that sling flipper, when you hit that left orbit and it goes into the pop bumpers is fantastic. Sometimes that left, that sling flipper can be really powerful and send your ball into like space. Like sometimes you get a few air balls off it, but when it, when it works 90% of the time, it is a satisfying flipper. And I hope we see more of that type of, you know, stuff from them. This is the kind of the kind of serendipity stuff. Cause that wasn't something where they, they had gotten down into, you know, meetings that were hashing out ideas and they're like, someone pitched this everybody engineer it this was like everybody was at lunch except for one dude and he's like you know what i'm gonna swap this fling out for his flipper just for fun and see what happens and then it was like awesome you know just one of those like let's just try this because we can it didn't have to go to a committee and get approved it didn't have you didn't have to submit designs and make a powerpoint and then sit there and be like here's what i want to try can i have permission to go do this it was just like some guy just screwed that in there and was goofing on themselves when everybody came back from lunch. As I remember, Buck was... He had to go to the bathroom or something, so Spooky Luke was alone with this game, and he's like, oh, this could be cool, so he put this little mini-flipper at the right slingshot, and when Buck came back, he was like, what the heck is that? Check this out, man, and they were just looking. Okay, that's cool. Yeah, so the problem now is Spooky Luke's not alone now, so there's going to be two weirdos and they're goofing around making weird stuff. That's what I'm excited about. On top of this type of design process, they have you included in that also. I'm so happy. And you're going to share everything with me and I'm going to say, yes, yes, yes. No, not that, not that. Remove that. I've always said, like, why slings? Why can't we have two pop bumpers instead? Oh, my God. We had one on the morning. You're talking about that same exact conversation. I was just in it a couple of days ago. What do you guys think about the Ghostbusters premium LE slings with magnets on them? Yeah, not a fan. Have you tried the magnet slings? Yeah, not a ton, but yeah. What do you think? You don't like it? How about you, Enzo? yeah like i think the magnets tend to like really mess with the ball like a pop bumper will just send a ball and you can still save it whereas the magnet is coming at you and then all of a sudden does a 180 and goes the opposite direction right and that's just like no that's bullshit i had that saved and then all of a sudden it's just drained whereas at least a pop bumper that's you it's coming and you know it's coming and you can fucking save that thing yeah so give me two pop bumpers where slings are. A sling will give you repeatability. You know as a player what to expect with it based on the trajectory of the balls coming in You know how it going to behave A pop bumper is just chaos It a chaos dome Awesome On And so like on Rick and Morty when you put it in there and you just get that randomness in there like it works for that game Would it work for every game? What would two pop bumpers feel like as slings? Well, I'll probably make it and see what happens. But, yeah, I don't know. Should they be player-controlled? You know, we've seen that before. Well, I saw that before. Somebody made a custom homebrew Slayer game where instead of flippers, You had controllable pop bumpers, and it was nuts. It was fun to try out. It's a pinball Olympics if you're going to the Chicago region. Man, talking about homebrew, this morning I watched a video with Walt. What's his name? Walt Wood. Yes, Walt Wood. I love that guy. Do you like that guy? That guy's got some hot takes, man. But he showed a horror game, Saw. I think it's his last video YouTube video he showed Saw and he was pretty frustrated about it was I'm not sure but it looked like it was just Whirlwind with another art on oh ok so it's not ok so it's another art on top ok ok he showed that game so they took Whirlwind and make it to Saw yeah but hold on so Walt purposely went to that video because the guy that made the Saw video game, the Saw re-theme, right? Yeah. Had criticized and shat on Walt. He was at Walt. He was at a tournament and he called him out. He said, oh, you're just a junkie or whatever. He made some real negative comments to Walt. So Walt was like, he's like, I'm going to criticize your game. If you're going to be a jerk, I'm going to. And so he purposely shat on that game. You know, he made some valid points. like you know some integration probably could do with a little bit of work I guess but he did it on purpose it was more like a if you're going to call me out and point your finger at me I'm going to do the same to you but yeah that Saw is just a re-theme of Whirlwind so is Predator though yeah well okay fair fair the difference with Saw and why it was so cool is like a whole team got together they used that layout of course but the code itself is completely brand new just to that layout and things. So it's not like the same Whirlwind rules switched over with a theme swap. I mean, they really created a new game but used the same existing layout. Is it a real game when you use another man's layout? Is it? Is it a homebrew game or is it just a re-theme? This is kind of like a new category, right? Because, yeah, I would still consider this a re-theme, although it is one hell of a re-theme. The Greatest Showman. I think that's a better name for it. Yeah, yeah. Because if you've taken it and you've, of course, put your own theme on it, we've seen that before. I like, if I'm making a homebrew, my layout may not be as good as, you know, something that was proven before. But I'm kind of, I'm having fun just making my unique thing and seeing how my ideas play out and where that leads, you know. So, like, you know, when I build a game. I didn't mind the Saw game. I just think, like, if you're going to re-theme, then you have to really, like if you're not spending time designing and making a play field um you know not saying that there's not a lot of work going into i'm sure it's still a lot of work to to modify the game but you're then your code and your lighting and your call outs should be spectacular because you need to be different and i think that saw game needs a little bit more i really like it so far um you know i don't know if what if it's true what he said about walt or whatever who cares I'm not getting involved in the politics, but I think the game has heaps of potential. It's a really good theme. Yeah. A really good theme for pinball. I mean, really, for that project, you were taking Saw and making it fit Whirlwind, whereas imagine if they took Saw and designed a layout that really spoke specifically to that, where everything can be purpose-built just for Saw, rather than how do we use these Whirlwind discs for Saw? How do we use this shot for Saw? How do we use the basement for Saw? As an example, at your background, Donnie, you have Star Wars. That Star Wars layout back in 2017 wasn't made for Star Wars when he designed the game. Oh, this was Jurassic Park, right? Yeah, it was made. That Hyperloop, that's for the Raptor run cage something. So it was made for that and then rethemed to Star Wars. I don't know why, but, yeah, that happened. So I'm all into when you design a game, design it around that theme. When I saw Looney Tunes, Texas Tanks on Massacre, which theme was this game designed for, you know? Right. They've never come out and said for sure, but sure seems like it was built for TCM. That would be my guess. It still works for Looney Tunes on that. I play Looney Tunes every time I get the chance. I love it. The code is really good on this game. You've got to play TCM because you're familiar with the layout from Looney Tunes and the mechanisms, but the way the code uses it is so different on TCM. I'm not a big horror fan, horror guy. I have heard Enzo saying this. He's not a horror guy. But, Enzo, you bought Evil Dead, right? Yeah, well, I did because Don told me to. When he went to Pinball at the Beach, he's like, dude, you need to buy Evil Dead because it's going to sell out tomorrow. you're welcome um and uh so i did but but you know again it's a testament to if the theme the overall theme integration and experience is there it will pull new people into that genre i mean even bug said on my interview with him that he reckons a good half of the people that bought the evil deads aren't even into evil dead they just really like the theme integration you know how funny how funny those call outs too you know and like ripping that spinner to get her head off and hitting the stand-up targets, the chopped body parts. My favorite is Bruce Campbell homage to Batman 89, where he's like, have you ever danced with the devil in the moonlight? Because that's what Jack Nicholson says to Batman. I mean, so fun, yeah. And some people was angry about the call-out. Some people were saying it feels like he's sleeping when he gives the call-outs, but it's his thing. He talks like that in the movies. I love it they just don't get it that's it at launch code there was just a whole lot of call outs they put everything in there and I think as the code revisions have come out they're more fine tuning it so now it's not as constant as it was when it first came out because I didn't hear that criticism this game is knocking too much they still go for like $15,000 out there $16,000 especially if you manage to get a butter cabinet and the topper you gotta have the topper Man, they sold 888 games and they sold like 850 toppers or something stupid like that. Evil Dead is the perfect testament to if the overall total package hits every box. So you're talking artwork, best artwork in pinball. Franchi is the Leonardo da Vinci of pinball art, right? You've got that. You've got the light show. You've got the code. You've got the modes. You've got the call-outs. You've got the mechs and toys, right? that all masks the fact that it is just a fan layout game it's not it's not as cool as looney tunes in texas in relation to the layout like the layout in looney tunes in texas the ball does far more interesting things and there's four flippers right so in theory evil dead being a fan layout now fan layouts are much faster games which makes them harder right the slower uh smaller shorter board times i should say but you you know everyone criticizes fan layout games venom gets a bad rap for it uh getting a bad fan for it you know so there are you know that but evil dead masks that because of its tick tick tick tick of everything else right there's a total package you can get away with it right whereas i think with venom and you know that suffered because i think the game just didn't have the art and the call-outs and the modes and the lighting and the theme integration. Some people think it does. I think it could do with more. But it doesn't mask the fact that it's a fan layout. That's just, you know. For me, I still think Texas is, as of today, I still think Texas is Spooky's best layout game. Oh, for sure. Yeah, so you forgot two things I just want to say about Evil Dead. all that you said was right but on top of all of that it's a white body game and the last thing, it's under 10,000 MSRP, wow we have to put that in, let me chill and to expound upon like the fan layout, there's a fan layout and then there's a fan layout you know, Star Wars is a fan layout Venom was essentially a fan Evil Dead, I get what you're saying but look at what those shots do and what else they can do, because that's what what parts are missing the right ramp on evil dead right you can shoot that up and then it returns to the sling flipper that's super fun it also has a a lift on it so you can shoot under it to start modes so that changes so you can do two things with that same shot and then you also have the troll mech that can pop up and act as a bash toy and then drop and then you can shoot past him so there's three ways that that that shot can transform so even though they're still the same you know fan layout of seven to eight shots the shots can do different things you know the shot straight up the play field, you'll have those stand-up targets that'll pop up. Then you'll have a scoop that pops up to access the lower play field. You've got the other troll mech on the left-hand side. So there's things that are changing, too. And I love when one shot can be multiple things. Look at the building on Godzilla. When it drops a level, and then all of a sudden, now your wire forms are backwards, as far as where they return. That's so fun. That physically changed everything. What do people rave about with Harry Potter? Is this the spinning staircase? just throwing balls all over the place. Works so good. You're right. I think there is an element of when a shot can be the same shot, but then you put a stand-up target in front of it. So you've got to hit the stand-up twice to drop it. Then it becomes a third shot, which goes into that ramp. It's a bit like the Jabba shot on Star Wars, right? You've got, basically, you've got to hit it. So you use that one shot, but it becomes three shots. And with Evil Dead, it's like with the shotgun, where you've got to load one, load the second, and then hit them both at the same time, right? That's three shots. But can we call Evil Dead a fan layout? Because every pinball content creator always says, if it has got more than two flippers, a third flipper, that choose from the right to the left drop-down targets, then it's not a fan layout. Isn't it true? It's a support Cengiz here. you got that whole stack of stand-up targets on the left and then that moving hand and its own little area over there. Yeah. It masks it very well because there is fan layout elements, maybe 90%, but there are things that kind of, you know, you break the claws just because it's got a sling flipper. Yeah, and it's not a fan layout. I mean, if we have to be totally dorky about it. I'll get dorky. I'm a fan of this layout. all right mic up on jam over there he's unplugged his mic um yeah look i think it does it really well like i said it masks the fact that it is a simple layout right where those particular main shots are simple like they're traditional but then they're masked by you got to hit some of them three times uh what they're a little bit tight then you got the hand and the mex the lower play field the what's not really an upper play field it's just a house that locks balls but it's all pinball moment stuff right and that's what it distracts you from being not their most intuitive layout and that's okay there's nothing wrong with that yeah i mean the game is great and they didn't go over complicated and overthink the layout right because you start with a fan and then like dress it up finish it don't just fan and forget right yeah hashtag fan and forget it's It's probably not the right theme to have ball paths like Foo Fighters or X-Men because being horror, it's got to be fast. It's got to be brutal. You can't watch a ball do loop-de-loops and then come to your flipper eventually. Do you know what I mean? I think it probably suits the theme really well, whereas with Looney Tunes, that layout for Looney Tunes, it suits the characters. Looney. Especially the one in the back that goes behind the flipper and then goes into the drop-down targets. Yeah. Right? You know, or he does the 360. Oh, man. Yeah. That suits. It's like, imagine if Richie is doing Sonic the Hedgehog, right? And he doesn't have loot-de-loots and he doesn't have, I want to see, like, what's the game that was Top Gun, but it was Gold Wings. Okay. Gold Wings in the back left-hand corner has the 360 ramp. Right? Like, if Sonic doesn't have that type of stuff. Sonic Moss had those loop one this is Steve Ritchie we're going to see No Fear rethemed into Sonic basically probably we saw Star Trek become Elton John we're going to see No Fear become Sonic it's got that repeatable loop ramp up top off the flipper I mean honestly I don't know for sure but that's what I would I wouldn't be surprised it's a valid point but then like I just think you can get away with it on certain themes you know and I think with Evil Dead you can get away with it and you know yeah I mean look at Galactic Tank Force I'm a big ambassador of that game I think that game is a sleeper and you know stay asleep I want to say something about that we are distros for that company we ordered the game first day we still haven't received it yet Where's our game? That's a long time ago As a distro, we didn't get that game What the heck Look, I love mine I think it's extremely captivating Do we have the tank version? No, I don't know Because at the time, the tank version was extremely expensive It costs 7,000 today I think I think that game was probably better It was probably better in its first iteration Called Big Bang Bar and then when they turned it into Galactic Tank Force. It is a very similar layout. Right? It's like 90% the same. Now, I think Galactic Tank Force is like two or three small changes away from being pretty good. You know, like imagine a set of the stand-up targets in front of the tank if those were drop targets, and you could hit them, drop them, and then shoot through the tank or into the tank to blow it up or something. Yeah, it's like from Mars. And then it wouldn't be such a bastard all the time coming back with you, to the point that you try to avoid it. And I think if there was one more wire form that was in there, everything wasn't just only one ramp with the verter. If there was something else, another element. I mean, I dig the cow. I'm glad they put it in there. That's goofy. I like the pop bumpers where they're at. I love the lighting they put in there. How about light show? I like the light show of the game. Yeah. I like the bass. I don't mind the dubstep. And it's just like... 90s videos like Command and Conga Red Alert type videos. Yeah. I like them. So 90s games. I keep telling people that if you've only ever played it at a show, you need to get one at home. Just buy one and get it at home. Does it hold up or does it crash often? How is the quality? Well, the guys at Pinfest in the UK had a Galactic Tank Force there for three days and they didn't miss a beat once. Wow. Right? So once you iron out the issues, like replace that shitty Chinese power supply with the Taiwanese power supply, then the game doesn't miss a beat. Get an issue to run. Capacitors and that power supply that were causing problems for people, right? So the flippers were kind of cutting in and out. The whole game would shut down for milliseconds on end. It is honestly like it is a sleeper of a game. It is a game that's fun. it allows you to not take it seriously and you can play it and smile like i play that game and i smiled all the time if the if the if the tone of the game had a little bit more of an edge to it wasn't just so slapstick silly i think that would have helped too like like if those cut scenes were played more serious like like an over the top like in red alert you know like because they were they were ridiculous but they were played as if they were you know serious like in the world's and he's taking over the planet. You know, I want to fear Annoy a little bit more than just see, you know, I don't know, like, it's like you go over to your girlfriend's house and her mom is over there smoking cigarettes drunk in the afternoon. You're like, oh, God, there she is again. That's what it felt like every time she popped up. And, Joe, we have got a spooky insider guy. So to our Patreon supporters, let's ask three, four, five questions, okay? How many flippers does the upcoming game have? Not all the other upcoming, but this one that comes next month. I lost my ears here. You blew my wig back with that question. I wasn't anticipating that. I'm pretty sure Luke had answered this, hasn't he? Yes, because I'm not going to get myself fired my first week of work. Luke was here. I think on our Patreon part of the interview, Luke already told this. Yeah. Three flippers, right? Sure. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Upper, under playfields? Yeah, I don't know that I can comment to that. Come on, Donny. What would you want to see? Do you like upper playfields? Do you like upper play field? No. Right. Yeah, yeah. If I should choose between an upper play field and an under play field, I want the upper play field. Okay. So tell me three games that have got great underplay fields except Congo. Congo has great underplay field, but anything else? Congo has like the simplest underplay field. So, yeah, I mean I don't want to be too self-serving, but the Evil Dead underplay field I like because it uses a full-size pinball. I don't like the lower playfields that use the mini pinballs because I don't feel like I have as much control. It feels too much like a flimsy game. I like the weight that I'm used to, the physics that I'm used to, Okay, well, I haven't played Evil Dead, so I don't know about that one. So whether it's a lower play field or an upper play field, I like when I can do multiple shots and have a bit of control. I think Foo Fighters did this pretty well. Foo Fighters. Evil Dead does it well, where you've got a couple of shots there, and then as the ball is coming down the ball guide on the right, there's a little rubber there that will bounce it back to your flipper, so you can then catch it, get control, and then go for a stand-up target. You get control again, go for a couple of loops, right? How about Twilight Zone upper play field? So that one. Yeah, I'll lock it. Yeah, with the magnetic slings that's up there. You should not just shoot it at the top. You should shoot the switches on the side and, you know, collect all those millions. And two seconds before timeout, then you shoot the ball to the exit. It's so well done. Everything about it is so cool. Another upper play field that I like is on Whitewater, if you guys love that. That is fun, yeah. That's a cool upper play field, right? Yeah, we've seen them done totally different ways. Scooby-Doo had an upper play field that was basically its own game up there. I mean, you could just stay and play up there. Yeah, yeah. I thought that was fun. For that game, because it was a wide body, there was enough else in there, it was fun. And Captain Cutler, man, who doesn't love that? My conspiracy theory is that they did Scooby-Doo, fan layer, then Looney Tunes Texas, not fan layer, and then Evil Dead fan layer. So the next one has to be a completely different line. I mean, that makes perfect sense to me. You've got me convinced. The other thing I've seen, though, is like a trend to take the concept of an upper play field, like a confined area, but just having that on the play field, like we saw in the Danger Room, for instance. You shoot in there, and it's like it plays like an upper play field would, but it's on the same field. It its own little area So I like to see that maybe utilized more So maybe you can get the same gameplay elements without necessarily having to shoot to an upper play field or get trapped in a lower play field that you just want to end Yeah the Danger Room works really well I mean, I'm a huge ambassador for X-Men. I love X-Men. And that Danger Room is awesome. I love X-Men. I just don't want to have the Danger Room down there. but everything else I don't get the hate that game is getting I think it's such a cool game I only have experience on the LE wow absolutely wow I was blown away man my son likes that danger area but I drained too much down there yeah I like I gotta remind myself to stay calm and just you know use your shots and use your logic and you can get out of there you know so it's fun I like that it gives me a chance to try to save my ball um i think with x-men uh some of the shots around the sentinel head if a good shot up there wouldn't reject you know 30 of the time i'd have a lot more fun with it and if the code was more like a mixture of venom and dnd i'd be all about it because i you know i want to pick my x-man that i want to play for that game and i want to level them up and add powers and bonuses and then unlock future ones like that i love that in venom that was so much fun, and Venom had a much more simple layout. But it was the code and the gameplay that made that fun. It definitely wasn't the video mode. Get out of here with that. I only played the pro version of the Venom. You've seen my video. I don't know if you watched my unboxing video. You had to assemble your own game. It was 80% assembled. Cengiz, did you get an apron credit for finishing assembly for Final Assembly of Venom? Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, Stern. Your flipper assembly was, like, hanging off. Like, it wasn't even, like, I don't even know if the screws were there. How about when I lifted up that backbox, nothing was assembled. Everything just dropped down on me. I was like, no! That's a good segue talking about unboxing. So my mate Shannon in Perth, sorry, in Australia, he's in Melbourne, yesterday unboxed his Predator. Whoa! Whoa. All right. There's some holes in this house. Oh, my God. That's awesome. Someone's got to learn. What does he think about it? He FaceTimed me straight away, and he's like, man, this game is really good. He's like the artwork in person is like really, really good. Like not Frenchy good, but it's good, right? And the green powder coating is really good. He said it doesn't feel floaty. it's very similar to Alien he said it's probably a better shooter than Alien but Alien's theme integration is better because there's no Arnold obviously but he said the game especially when the ball you hit that scoop and the ball then goes into the gun and you have that pinball moment where the lights are flickering and the machine guns going off he actually said it's a really great he's really happy with it and it feels really well built. He said it doesn't feel flimsy like Funhaus and the other Pedretti games. It feels they really stepped up the notch, and it worked straight out of the box. He didn't have to do any dialing in, nothing. Do you miss Arnold? Yeah, you miss Arnold, but he's like, you kind of forget about it because it's so captivating with the sound effects and the call-outs and the explosions and everything. So you kind of, you know, if you tell yourself you're playing as Arnold, you probably forget about it but you know here's the thing right so this license finishes in december for them right for whatever reason nobody's going to know the actual reason why but if they open the source that code and then people can do their own shit on that game and i can put my own arnold like that's a sleeper hit like i would put like don dressed up as arnold or like sexy fix in the game as like one of the sergeants or something. My mind is going now. Can you imagine like we can go out and record scenes for our own custom predator code? I can picture you with the Don in your cornfield with your freaking paint on your cheeks. Like fucking... Jenkins could do the voices. Get to the spooky building. Get to the spooky building now. Run. Run. Get to the cornfield. You have no idea how many people have mailed me just saying, you need to make a RETROCENGO version of the Arnold Callouts. Come on. We don't want a Ripley edition. We want a Cengiz edition. Yeah, I mean, honestly. But what are they doing? They're sending games to Australia, USA, but not me one hour from them. I don't know what they're doing. We have ordered the game, but still nothing. You obviously upset them. Yeah. How? I made a video where I said, don't be mean to Pinball Brothers. That's the only thing I did. Yeah, look, as soon as the launch happened, they went completely quiet. Yeah. Don't you reckon? Yeah, but something happened. But when they launched the game, like 90% of Pinball Media just shit on them. they're really harsh on them I mean you made a great interview but I mean people were out just slashing that company like crazy I mean it can't be that good of a feeling for them you know so maybe that's the reason I don't know what happened my interview was diplomatic and it was you know a safe space and I've always been really friendly with them via email and giving them like feedback and helping and where i could and to just cut off all of a sudden once the game's out it's like they don't need you anymore and i was like look let's get a game here let's shoot some video i'll stream it let's show the world that this game is actually really good yeah and then it went quiet and then it took three months before we saw that young kid play it and i talked with them multiple times a day i i made all this promotion for them for free nothing there and when the game came out, I'm like, woo, congratulations. Don and I are going to make a show. What do you want us to include? They didn't get back. They cut me off also. They just cut everybody off. I don't know why. I wonder if around that same time, they had the dealer or whatever leak that video that had the Arnold assets that didn't get approved. I wonder if they got some blowback or they're like, we need to lay low. We don't want to upset the licensor. Maybe they were just being overly cautious too. That could have been part of it. That happened right at the same time. They also have some very negative thing from other media people I cannot say here. But, yeah, not everybody is kind towards Pinball Brothers. Yeah, and I'm not a pinball marketer, but I'd say, hey, here's my new game. It's out now. I want everybody to have a chance to play it. Who's got a show coming out? Maybe I can see we can expedite you your game. If anybody wants to come out and visit the factory, it's here to be played. You know, stuff like that. That's what we didn't see. I think I agree with you. I think what's happened is the licensed guy saw what happened with the leaked footage and basically gagged them from speaking to anybody. Because you have not seen one interview since then. That would explain it, yeah. Because they didn't even, they just shut down. They could talk to me. I was under NDA. No, I'm talking about after So the game came out A week later, the footage leaked Arnold being in the game And from that moment, everyone got cut off No one had spoken to Daniel For all we know, people that represent Arnold and his likeness could have just Been sending all kinds of cease and desist Letters and stuff just immediately And so Look, they probably got in trouble And that explains why they've had the license terminated And it ends in December Termination That's gonna be the shortest Oh my god Okay then think about this scenario The game is at Expo right now I think we've got pictures of two games Over there right now right And Expo is like two weeks from now or something Yeah yeah 18th Think about this people play the game And they go apeshit And everyone wants to buy the game And the production is What a month ago they said there were like 100 games left or something And December the license is over and everybody wants the game, do you think that will happen? So it will cost $15,000, $20,000 in the secondary hand, maybe? I don't know. If the demand is there, they can go back to the licensee and say, look, there's a demand there, can we work something out? But I think it's too far gone now. I think no doubt they're definitely going to get sales after Expo. I think people that are interested in it know it's going to be there to be played. And I think once you walk up to this thing and you're putting your hands around a wide-body game that's full of all those ramps and shots and things. Layout feels familiar. There's Predator stuff going on. Yeah, the Gatling gun's going to be cool. I think that'll cause people that are 90% of the way there to go ahead and put it in. It may sell out at the show. In the video he sent me yesterday, the moment you start hearing the clicking from the Predator, you get goosebumps. Are you going to visit Shane Visit Shane and make some video, make some content. Yeah, well, I'm going to be there in a couple of weeks. We've got our Melbourne Expo in the end of October. So I'll go there and see that. But, you know, just hearing the clicking, the Predator clicking, is enough to get your nostalgia. You know, if the game's good, I still think it will. And Shannon, my friend Shannon, is pretty critical of games. So for him to say that it's good, it must be pretty good. Did you order Predator? No. Okay. Don, did you? No, no. Wouldn't that be the greatest thing? This game got sandbagged so hard. There's only 100 left. They're cutting production. And then it turns out that the game's actually decent, and we just haven't had a way to really verify that this whole time. What a kick in the nuts that is. I'm still positive, but I still don't understand why they don't send me the game that we have bought. It's not a free game or nothing. is a paid game, you know? I mean, you're across the bridge, man. You can go... Yeah, why the heck? You know why? Because they don't want you to do videos on it. That's why. That's why. You're going to get it last. Oh, man. But Enzo, if it's a great game and I film it, their sales will go up. It will explode. I sold so many aliens for them. I think if they have had a cease and desist because of the media situation and what happened, that they're going to avoid giving the media creators that have bought a game one until the very last minute. That doesn't serve them because Jenkins has a showroom where customers can come and play the game there and then play it before they buy it. That should be outweighed by the sales perspective, I would think. Games are so expensive now, so our customers over here, they want to try before buy. same happened with JJP nobody wanted to buy Harry Potter before they could try it and this is a game that's being built in the EU too so it doesn't even have to leave your free trade area I mean there was tariffs on the pinball life parts or whatever we still have 25% VAT yeah but yeah I think Enzo is onto something there yeah alright guys I want to in Don's Discord server, and he just wrote, he wrote, when's the party at Don's new house? So that's, all right, so there's another little thing I've been working on. There's never been, to my knowledge, a pinball machine midnight release party like you have with like a new video game. So I'm thinking, how fun would this be if, just because it's absurd, to do for their next title release, a midnight release, right, where we all kind of hang out, and we party, and then we march over to the factory, at like 11 p.m., show up in their driveway, hang out there, bullshit or whatever, and then at midnight the doors roll up, there's the game ready to play, there's the cash register ready for deposits, and if you go ahead and put your deposit in that night, you get a special badge on your game that says it was the midnight edition because you were there. Let me show you something. Come on, how cool would that be? And purposeless. I think it's a great idea. Yeah. I was a huge ambassador of midnight release video games and 6 a.m. in the morning video release. We'd be camped out all night on the curb, right? We all did it. Yeah. Can you see what game it is? Diablo 2, yeah. Diablo 2. It was cold, cold winter, midnight, 12 o'clock at night. We were like 500 people at the store waiting for this game. I will never get rid of this box. Never. It was just magical, man. You earned it. It was such a cool experience, right? It was such a cool experience. And we were all, some people were dressed up and elf ears and all that shit because back then Lord of the Rings was really on its high also. So it was such a magical experience. Shut up. Yeah. Donnie, I've got a better idea. Yeah. Right? So you said this roller door goes up and the game's there. Yeah. Right? I reckon this roll-a-dough goes up and there's no game. Oh. Right? You then say, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, and the game appears. Oh, man. How fun. Is the game Beetlejuice? I don't know for sure, man. I mean, it could be anything. It could completely subvert expectations, you know? Everyone knows and thinks it's Beetlejuice, right? But how cool would it be, and I said it to you today, right, and a few other people have said it, that if it is Beetlejuice, that a good way to turn the game on would be to say, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, and the game turns on. How fun would that be? You know, I was doing a little thought experiment. I was thinking, you know, for a Beetlejuice license, like, if a, like, how, because that's a big mechanism in the movie, right, how you summon Beetlejuice, the bio-exorcist. So, like, how would each different company implement that in their game? And if Stern Pinball made a Beetlejuice, I would expect you to hit a drop-down target, then you would shoot into a Vuck and then you would get one Beetlejuice that would be for the Beetlejuice ball lock and then you'd have to hit it again, get the second one and then the third one would be Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice multiball, that's probably how they would implement it right? Jersey Jack would probably have some other system similar to Harry Potter and putting the balls on the some kind of Zagnut or something up in the air how this boo can do it? yeah I mean, we'll have to wait and see I hope you're right man, because that sounds like a dynamite license man yeah yeah um you know if it's just about to say it there ends up if it's talladega nights people are gonna be disappointed so for me here's this right michael keaton might be expensive to get i don't know right if i will be happy if it's a like a michael keaton similar voice it doesn't matter although something i thought about was like how cool would it be if it was winona rider because winona rider is not making any films you could easily get her to do call-outs. Stranger things. She'd probably do it for a Diet Coke, to be honest. I would. So she could do call-outs. Michael Keaton, you probably wouldn't get him to do call-outs, but there's a lot of people that do voice-over of Michael Keaton. I honestly think, and yeah, it's going to automatically sell out because of the hype behind Evil Dead. So every list I know of has got more names on it than that distro can get games. It's 999, right? Yeah, it will sell out in like 10 minutes. Yeah, so I mean no one really will know until the reveal and everything, except for me because I've played it. But yeah, I was pretty much on a list before I knew what it was, and after seeing it and playing it and just like where it's going, like my name is cemented so firmly on that list. I'm allowed to share my impressions. You know, Luke reckons that this topper is next level. Yeah. I mean, yeah. They're definitely going to get your supporters. Just hit up Matt Pinball, Jeff in there, and get on the list today. This is what I would do. Yeah, I would definitely get on at least a couple of distributors' lists. And then, you know, you can go ahead and try to buy direct during day of sales. If this thing does go fast, the website may crash. And if you're not able to get in on there, at least you have a distributor you can use. So, for sure. Why the hell, when you're an insider guy now, why don't we just take some of the games and say, WAP, Patreon supporters, these are for you if you're interested, and let them get first pick. Why don't we do that? We should do that. People are supporting us. This title has a lot of eyes on it, right? And so for sure there's people that are like, I'll just go in and I'll put down 10 deposits, and then if I sell four of them for $15,000, then I've made money, and then they can just walk away from the other deposits if they don't sell. So they don't want a situation like that. So it may be that you're really limited at least that first day or so to like one purchase per person or something just so everybody has like an equal chance. Yeah, yeah. So no one's going in there and like I'm going to buy 25 of them and just hoard them and then make cash at the end. With Stern, before they cost $13,000, when we could get, you know, So what they would say, Eastern, LE for 7,500. People bought three, four, five of them and just hit them for six months. And six months later, I was opening, you know, bam, brand new, whatever, LE, 12,000. What the heck? I'm going to buy that. Because they got sold out day one. So, yeah, it's good with that limitation, one per person. I think we could do something for our Patreon supporters. Just have, you know, 10 games. Write that down. Just talk with the guys. And the thing is with Stern, you know, you buy a game, you're essentially, you know, paying for the whole game, right? You know, Spooky still does the pre-order deposit. You know, they take that deposit money, and then when your game's ready to be into production, that's when you pay the balance, right? So there's less risk for a speculator with Spooky because you can just go in and just buy deposits, and then, you know, you're not out $100,000 on 10 games. You know, you're out 10. Exactly. Yeah. But with Stern, it was like, I want five. Here's money for five, and next week you have five, right? Yeah. So a week or so into it, once initial sales have gone, then I think you could go in and scoop up as many as you want. But I think they're going to be gone fairly quick. Yeah. Let's see. Okay, Donnie. Congratulations again, buddy. This is beautiful. I love it. Congratulations, man. And Enzo, thank you for joining us. I think this is the second or third time. I don't even remember. And this one's taken too long. We were meant to do it six months ago, but let's make sure it doesn't go so far again. We talked about at some game release, I hit you up. I was like, Enzo, you have to be in the show. I don't even know. What was it? Harry Potter? It was Harry Potter. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Don't wait. Not six months again. Okay. You have to join. I'll get you guys onto Gonzo's channel. Let's do it. We'll do a live Q&A with the public. We should just be able to come in and hang out anytime, and that's what Patreon's for. And then, yeah, we'll do some WAP episodes and stuff in the future too. But this was fun, man. This was cool, right? Absolutely. Just friendly talk. Beautiful. Beautiful. Let's do it again. Hopefully you didn't give anything away, Don. Yeah. Enzo, how do people contact you? Through Gonzo's channel? Well, Gonzo's foot drama. I'm not Gonzo, but I'm half of Gonzo, Well, maybe not even half because technically, you know, I'm a quarter. But Gonzo Swipperama, I am on Instagram under Gonzo Swipperama Enzo. So I do have my own little Instagram thing. Hit me up, like and subscribe. Obviously, yeah, we'll see you on the flip side. Cool. Come back anytime, man. Patreon people, you know where we're at. Email us at wearepinball69 at gmail.com. Or just hang out or post comments and stuff. All right, I'm out. I'm going to get some food. I'll see you guys later. Yeah, yeah. See you, buddy. See you later, buddy. Bye. Later. My bad.