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Episode 307 - The Creed and the Claw

NYC PinPod·podcast_episode·1h 27m·analyzed·Oct 14, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

NYC PinPod reports league results, reviews Rulo's venue, and discusses skill shot strategy.

Summary

NYC PinPod Episode 307 covers competitive pinball league results across New York City divisions (Left Flipper, Right Flipper, and other tournaments), reviews Rulo's venue in Park Slope as a community-driven bar with strong food offerings and diverse entertainment, and begins a discussion on skill shots using Johnny Mnemonic as an example. The episode includes tournament results, league standings, upcoming matches, and detailed venue analysis with personal anecdotes about notable events at Rulo's.

Key Claims

  • As of October 11, 2024, there are 277 pinball machines in New York City at 85 public locations

    high confidence · Benjamin Furiga citing Pinball Map data

  • Ravi Coltrane (John Coltrane's son) played saxophone live at Rulo's while the speaker was playing James Bond pinball

    high confidence · Eric Sweetland, personal anecdote about an experience at Rulo's

  • The Big Lebowski at Rulo's has had more uptime than any other Big Lebowski installation

    medium confidence · Eric Sweetland, subjective observation about machine reliability

  • X-Men is still too new and needs nerfs, and was not played in Left Flipper Division competition this week

    high confidence · Eric Sweetland commenting on Scrapple Squad vs Butterballers match

  • Bart (owner of Rulo's) provides free food like pasta salad and pulled pork for special events without menu listing

    high confidence · Madeline Lynn describing Bart's practice at tournaments like Rob Wong Invitational

  • Rulo's hosts kids' pinball birthday parties during daytime hours with non-alcoholic drinks

    high confidence · Benjamin Furiga noting advertisements on walls at the venue

  • Johnny Mnemonic has a game-theory-optimal (GTO) strategy of focusing on ramps and spinner shots

    medium confidence · Eric Sweetland discussing competitive strategy on Johnny Mnemonic at Rulo's

  • The claw machine feature on Johnny Mnemonic at Rulo's is turned off in competition mode

    high confidence · Eric Sweetland explaining competitive setup differences on the machine

  • Eric's Association is the only undefeated team halfway through Left Flipper Division season

    high confidence · Eric Sweetland reporting league standings after week 5

Notable Quotes

  • “there's real fucking jazz happening back there”

    Eric Sweetland @ ~48:00 — Captures the unique cultural moment at Rulo's when Ravi Coltrane performed live saxophone while speaker played James Bond pinball

  • “It really ties the room together, man”

    Eric Sweetland @ ~66:00 — Big Lebowski reference about the rug hanging behind that pinball machine at Rulo's

  • “This is the kind of thing that happens”

    Eric Sweetland @ ~47:00 — Concluding thought on Rulo's as a venue where unexpected cultural events and live music occur organically

  • “I'm quite pleased with the Rulo's hot dogs”

    Madeline Lynn @ ~33:00 — Personal reflection connecting grandmother's memory to affordable food at the venue, highlighting venue's accessibility

  • “When it's still that new, it's probably... There's a few things on there that need to be nerfed, and that's probably better for everyone. That's when it's the most fun.”

    Eric Sweetland @ ~24:00 — Commentary on X-Men needing balance adjustments while still in early competitive rotation

  • “I do enjoy the booths with the individual light because it does feel very cozy”

    Madeline Lynn @ ~36:00 — Assessment of Rulo's ambient lighting design and its effect on atmosphere

  • “Don't go down there unless you work there”

    Benjamin Furiga @ ~52:00 — Noting operational spaces down stairs at Rulo's are off-limits to patrons

  • “there are only four shots to hit, because five of the seven shots would matter if the claw mattered. But it doesn't on this one.”

    Eric Sweetland @ ~70:00 — Explaining how competition mode setup changes strategic depth on Johnny Mnemonic

Entities

Benjamin FurigapersonEric SweetlandpersonMadeline LynnpersonRulo'sevent|organizationGreg PavarellipersonMatt FalzonepersonGina KoleckiapersonScott MottpersonZen ZakniakpersonBartpersonNicopersonRavi Coltraneperson

Signals

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Pinball NYC Left and Right Flipper Divisions are past midseason with clear playoff contention emerging. Six teams qualify for playoffs in each division with tight point differentials determining playoff seeding.

    high · Detailed standings reported showing Eric's Association undefeated in Left Flipper, with four teams at 4-1 and multiple at 3-2; Right Flipper showing four teams tied at 4-1 with tight point gaps

  • ?

    product_concern: X-Men pinball machine is too new and requires balance nerfs before full competitive circulation; currently avoided in some league play during its early release phase.

    high · Eric Sweetland: 'When it's still that new, it's probably... There's a few things on there that need to be nerfed, and that's probably better for everyone.' Machine was not played in Left Flipper Division match.

  • ?

    venue_signal: Rulo's is a high-quality, well-maintained pinball venue with strong community programming, diverse food offerings, live entertainment bookings, and kid-friendly daytime activities alongside competitive league play.

    high · Detailed venue review highlighting dark ambient lighting, eight-machine pinball bank, kids' birthday party offerings, drag bingo, trivia, karaoke, and owner Bart's tradition of providing free food at tournaments

  • ?

    machine_intel: Johnny Mnemonic's claw machine feature is disabled in competition mode at Rulo's, reducing the number of viable scoring shots from seven to four, which fundamentally changes game strategy.

    high · Eric Sweetland: 'The claw is turned off on this one. It is set in the sort of competition mode... This is part of why I say there are only four shots to hit, because five of the seven shots would matter if the claw mattered.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.263

0:00
Thank you. Sunday, pinfolk, or whatever day you're listening. This is NYC Pin Pod, in which a panel talks location pinball in New York City and nearby surrounding areas. My name is Benjamin Furiga. My initials are BCF, and I'm... have mixed results as a pinball coach. My name is Eric Sweetland. My initials are HIP, and I'm a pinball tournament director in New York City. Hey, y'all. My name is Madeline Lynn. SheHerHers, my initials are MXL, and I still have not yet played Banzai Run. On this week's pod, we'll run down local competition results. In Ball 2, we'll review Rulos as a pinball venue. And in Ball 3, we'll talk about skill shots in a bit more sweeping discussion than I expected. Let's get started. Let's talk about competitive pinball results in New York City and nearby surrounding areas over the past week. On Sunday, October 8th. at Gebhard's Beer Culture on the Upper West Side. The October Monthly at Geb's was met. Six players gathered, and Matt Falzone won the day.
1:39
Silver Ball Sunday was met also on the 8th at Single Cut Brewery in Long Island City. Nope, we decided that was a story a few weeks ago.
1:50
16 players gathered, and Greg Pavarelli took top honors. Tommy Ortega, tournament director, took second.
2:01
Eric Weselak took third. And Harlan, I'm going to say your last name wrong, Aida Linda. Harlan, I know you. I didn't know your last name before now, and I wouldn't have known how to pronounce it. I apologize if I'm saying it wrong. Harlan Aida Linda got fourth. also that same sunday the wfmu benefit tournament was convened at transmitter brewing in williamsburg 23 players gathered to support this important radio station they did not play finals They played five rounds of IFPA scoring match play. And Gina Koleckia came out with 33 of a possible 35 points.

Venom at Transmitter Brewing has a glitch where the ball jumps over the playfield and is dispensed twice during lock sequence

high confidence · User 'mayor of now' reporting via Pinball Map machine updates

Pinball NYCorganization
Left Flipper Divisionevent|organization
Right Flipper Divisionevent|organization
WFMU benefit tournamentevent
Long Island Pinball Societyorganization
SSPLorganization
Arcade Brooklyn Pinball Leagueorganization
Johnny Mnemonicgame
X-Mengame
Transmitter Brewingevent
Sunshine Laundromatevent
Buttermilk Barevent
Gebhard's Beer Cultureevent
Pat Lawlerperson
?

gameplay_signal: Johnny Mnemonic exhibits a clear GTO strategy focused on spinner and ramp shots, making it a skill-based competitive game despite limited shot variety, with early/late rotations favoring ramp play.

high · Eric Sweetland detailed GTO: 'ramps all day until the super spinner lights which also means yakuza all day and it's just it's just banging on those two ramps until the spinner is lit'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Multiple Pinball NYC teams successfully integrated new players into league play this week (Scott and James), with new players contributing wins in their debut matches.

    high · Balls of Steel and Pinister Six both fielded new players who won games; Benjamin noted guest player option at Arcade Brooklyn Pinball League for lower-commitment participation

  • ?

    product_concern: Venom at Transmitter Brewing has a significant glitch where the ball jumps over the playfield and is dispensed twice during the lock sequence when lights are off.

    high · User 'mayor of now' report: 'ball feels a little erratic it jumped over the playfield... it also got dispensed twice during the lock sequence when all the lights were off so i think there's a glitch'

  • ?

    event_signal: Three major events scheduled for Sunday, October 20: Avatar Jersey Jack launch party at Sunshine Laundromat, Stern Army Rob Wong Invitational at Rulo's, and Jersey City Women's Open.

    high · Upcoming events announced including new JJP title launch and major invitational tournament

  • ?

    content_signal: NYC PinPod provides comprehensive coverage of local NYC pinball league results, venue reviews, and strategic discussion, serving as primary media outlet for regional competitive pinball community.

    high · Episode 307 structure with Ball 1 (competition results), Ball 2 (venue review), Ball 3 (gameplay analysis) showing consistent format and deep community integration

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Benjamin Furiga publicly acknowledged poor personal performance this week while bragging about coaching last week, showing self-aware community culture where competitive humility is valued.

    high · Benjamin: 'Just as I bragged on my coaching skills last week, I absolutely deserve to be browbeaten for them this week... I caused Captain JLW Ajita at minimum when she was absolutely killing it'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Rulo's hosts live music bookings (documented Ravi Coltrane performance), drag bingo, trivia nights, and karaoke alongside competitive pinball, positioning it as entertainment venue rather than just arcade.

    high · Eric detailed history of live jazz performances at venue and current programming including drag bingo, trivia, karaoke during various weeknights

  • $

    market_signal: NYC pinball ecosystem has reached 277 machines at 85 public locations as of October 11, 2024, indicating growth and density of pinball availability in metropolitan area.

    high · Benjamin Furiga citing Pinball Map official data: 'As of October 11th, 2024, there are 277 pinball machines in New York City at 85 public locations'

    • 2:54
    Nice. Matthew Quintanilla, also a Deluxe Horses teammate, came in second. Thomas Kelly Kemple came in third. And Jacob Lewandowski, fourth. on monday october 7th the long island pinball society monthly tournament was convened at round one that's in hicksville new york and there's a note on the match play thing that indicates that the entrance is located in the rear of the mall they played six rounds of match play with ifpa scoring 7531 and scott mott came out on top Daniel DeBobes, whom we have seen a few times come into the city for some weekend tournaments, got second. MJR Balls, with a Z at the end, got third. And Steven Perrillo got fourth. In the left flipper division, on Monday night, October 7th, the Mutants, who were three and one coming in went to commonwealth to face intermission dolores who were two and two the home team put a win on the mutants nine to seven at midway special when lit traveled from rulos to visit balls of steel zen zakniak texted me to say balls of steel one rolling with four players total, including a player new to the league. Scott, who was the new player, won points in their 11-5 win over the visitors. Nice job, Scott. The two-for-oners went 10 blocks uptown, and the two-for-oners came away with an away win, 10-6. The lesser players remain winless on the season, and the two-for-oners pick up their second win. We Colliders went to Rulos to face the aristocrats. I'm going to tell you the end right now. It was 13-3. The home team absolutely trounced us. Oof.
    5:12
    Madeline says oof. Unfortunately, she couldn't join us. As you heard her voice last week, I'm sure that's why you weren't with us, right? I'm glad you're feeling better now, Madeline. Indeed, indeed. Close enough. Welcome back to the living.
    5:28
    For my purposes, I absolutely stunk at Pirates of the Caribbean and was called to contest three points on it. Just as I bragged on my coaching skills last week, I absolutely deserve to be browbeaten for them. This week, I caused Captain JLW Ajita at minimum when she was absolutely killing it on Pirates of the Caribbean.
    5:56
    I came out of the bathroom. She was killing two million point jackpots. I was sure she had a stuck ball and multi ball. And I took her out of her rhythm when I was like, you've got a stuck ball somewhere. You're in multi ball still. She wasn't. She was in a single ball play. All right. In addition to stopping her momentum, I absolutely stunk both times I played it. In the doubles match in the final round, I don't think I got even a million points. It was I was barely flipping pinballs. It was horrifying. Congratulations to the aristocrats, first of all. Nice job. Secondly, Madeline gave us in our team chat some what I'm going to call game theory optimal suggestions about the claw machine and how to pick up a plush toy from it and not just a can. This place we'll talk about later. Spoilers ahead. Warning.
    7:01
    Parliament went from Park Slope up to the Upper West Side, and they were beaten handily at Gebhard's Beer Culture by the home team, Lion Persons.
    7:15
    The Deluxe Horses went to Skylark to visit the Pin Pals. DFW emailed with the subject line, Skylark on the board. I'm going to read this email that DFW sent me verbatim.
    7:33
    He and I discussed it on the streets of Park Slope on Monday night, and I'm pretty sure that there are going to be references in it that I wouldn't recognize. The last sentence will explain what any and all of the references are to.
    7:51
    He starts by saying, Pin Pals greet the horses at home with arms wide open. Horses take Foo Fighters. Pin Pals take Medieval. We split round one and we're thinking. Round two. Pin Pals take three points. Matt Q takes the horses higher with one point on Fishtails. Round three. Pin Pals take three. tie takes a point on paragon horses find themselves in their own prison having to sweep round four to win pin pals take fishtails for the win and celebrate their first win with a team creed sing-along at the bar there are two periods in that entire email i can identify the songs arms wide open and the reference to Matt Q having taken them higher with a win as Creed references therein. If you really knew Creed, I have a feeling that each one of those lines has at least one reference to a Korean song in it. This is like an escape room letter you'd find.
    9:05
    Eric, New York City Flipper Sport Association went to Barcade Brooklyn. what happened we visited our friends on pinball union uh a good number of which are barcade brooklyn pinball league regulars or indeed barcade employees but we had a dominant road win picking it up 13 to 3 after these five weeks we're halfway through there continues to be one undefeated team, Eric's Association.
    9:41
    Nice job. Thank you. There are two teams at 4-1, Balls of Steel and Lion Persons. There are four teams at 3-2, and if you're doing your math right, you would realize that the cutoff, if six teams are going to make the top half of the playoffs, that the cutoff is between two teams at three and two right now. The liminal point is between Intermission Dolores, who have 40 points and are on the good side of that line, and Parliament, who have 38 and are on the bad side of that line. In the second division of the playoffs, in addition to presumably Parliament at the moment, based on score, the Aristocrats, Special Wendlet, the Two for Oners, Pinball Union, and we colliders are in the fold. That said, we colliders have one win and 34 points, and the pin pals, after their creed sing-along the other night, have 28 points. So six points or a win, either way, would get them in front of us. The lesser players are, with zero wins, they are going to need more than a little help, but they have the same number of points as the pin pals. So if they get one win and the pin pals don't get another one next week, they're probably going to be in front of them. On Tuesday, October 8th, also in Pinball NYC, but the right flipper division.
    11:24
    The 0-4 Trolls hosted no quarters for Laundrie, who were 3-1. It was an 8-8 tiebreak win for the home team,
    11:39
    meaning that there are no remaining teams with zero wins in the right flipper. We're halfway through the season. Everybody's got to win. Eric, I think you were keeping up with the troll story Yeah, on Instagram Every week They post about the match And their theme of the week Which was meth related It was a good read from guest composer Monica Weidekamp Check them out on Instagram Let's go, Monica Yeah Yay Neptune's Treasure hosted the Baldrainers At Milo's Yard And they picked up a home win Pinister Six went to Birdies and beat the Pin Babes 12-4. Zen Zokniak sent me a text about this, and he pointed out that something very similar happened on his Tuesday night team, as happened on his Monday night team. Pinister Six won. They rolled in with a total of four players, including a player who was new to the league, and James, who is new to the league, won games for Pinister Six. Nice job, James. He also added that two of the games that Penister 6 won were won on the last player's bonus, meaning that there was some really exciting stuff going on here. And at a 12-4 margin, if both of the times that that happened, that was on doubles games, that means that they were the last bonus count up on two different games from an 8-8 tiebreaker, right? I don't know if Zen didn't tell us if it happened on two-point games or one-point games. He just said the last player. But it's interesting to note that if it happened both times on doubles games, that that's potentially an 8-8 tiebreak instead of a 12-4 win. Rest in Pinball went to Jack Bar to face the Schlubs, and the home teams handled them with grace, 11-5. Kettle's Hand Grenades went to Rulo's to face the replays, and the home team was just too much for them to handle at 12-4. Scrapple Squad hosted the Butterballers at Sunshine. Eric, it says 8-8. I don't think the arrow is pointing in the way that you would probably like for it to have been, but what do you have to say about this one? Yeah, unfortunately not. I wasn't able to make it this week. the one piece of info I do have about the match is that X-Men was not played in competition.
    14:11
    That's probably better for everyone. When it's still that new, it's probably... There's a few things on there that need to be nerfed, and that's probably better for everyone. That's when it's the most fun.
    14:24
    Harlem Globe Flippers went to Buttermilk Bar to face Danger Danger, and in yet another tie-break win in this division, there were three this week, of seven games played. Danger Danger, the home team, picked up the win over the Globe Flippers for Matt the Wallace. If we look at this division, it's a little bit more clear cut. The line between six and seven is the line between three and two and two and three. That's partially because nobody has zero wins here. The top four teams all have four wins. Pinister Six, Danger Danger, Ball Drainers and Neptune's Treasure. Respectively, they have 54, 50, 49, and 47 points. So anywhere in those top four, you could make a jump pretty quickly just by having a win with a lot of points. Five and six, the top six are rounded out by No Quarters for Laundry and Rest in Pinball. There's a big points gap between No Quarters for Laundry at three and two and 50 points and Reston Pinball at 3-2 and 38 points. Big point gap there. Seems like no quarters for Laundrie. Couple of wins, they're probably in these playoffs, in the upper level, in the Orbit playoffs. In the lower half, because nobody has zero wins, once again, the bottom dividing line is 1-4, and it's just a question of points. Kettle's hand grenades are above the line for now in those next six and Trolls and the Pin Babes would be on the outside looking in if the playoffs started today On Wednesday evening Arcade Brooklyn Pinball League met for the second session of our fifth season 15 players came out and the big points winners this time were Neetsan Gabai and Jeff Anderson Congrats to Nitsan I like to hear his name on this He sort of wandered in last night and he's like hey Nitsan you come out to play with us he's like yeah I don't really know I just sort of wanted to come over here he's like okay well you know you could guest in the league you don't have to pay the dues if you're just going to play one time you can join us for the night and then he's like okay I'll do it and sometime around two or three Woody walked over and said here's ten bucks from Nitsan he's going to join the league so we hooked them at Sunshine on that same night Wednesday October 9th 7 players gathered for 5 rounds of IFPA scoring match play Sean Grant won the night on October 10th No Bro Presents Thursday Night Strikes was held at Jack Bar 25 players showed up for this 3 strikes event Alex Kelly outlasted the rest overcoming a late surge from Wes Olfig who came in second. Adam Kane and Ida Kreutzer were tied for third place.
    17:31
    At Gebhardt's on Thursday night, four players gathered for Thursday night at Gebhardt's Beer Culture. They played eight rounds of IFPA scoring match play and Glenn Gilliard won the night. And the finals were held at Buttermilk for SSPL 6, and I'm pleased to say that two of the three panelists were in, one each in A and B. I can tell you what happened in the first four games of A, wherein Robert Wong got first place on the night, Matthew Carlson took second, Thomas Milburn third, and Billy Vazine took fourth for the entire series. There's going to be plenty of whoppers out there. Eric, what happened in B? Yeah, I participated in the eight-player B finals, Papa Style. I made it through to finish up in second in B. Gus Gonzalez got first place in B.
    18:46
    And it looks to me like Caitlin Reese and Taylor Connolly tied for third. I think there was a tiebreak that would have put Taylor in front. Very good. At the very end. Very good. Taylor was the top seed on the night, or was Gus the top seed on the night?
    19:02
    Gus was top seed. Taylor was number two. He was driving my bus in the first round. Taylor was. Right. And then he and I moved into the finals with Gus and Caitlin from the other group. Coming up, we are more than halfway, folks. More than halfway there. Pigeon on a Stare on Monday. Monday, Monday. We have Intermission Dolores playing against the New York City Flipper Sport Association at the Wallace. Colliders, my favorite team, versus the Mutants at Solid State over in Queens. Pinball Union versus Pin Pals at Skylark. Lesser Players versus Parliament at Owl Farm. Sounds like a hoot. Aristocrats versus Two for One at McKenna's Pub. Balls of Steel vs. the Deluxe Horses at Barcade Brooklyn Lion Persons vs. Special When Lit at Rulo's Tuesday, Tuesday, Tuesday Pay for the whole seat but you'll only need the edge Trolls vs. Harlem Globe Flippers at The Wallace Rest in Pinball, R.I.P. vs. No Quarters for Laundry at Solid State Danger Danger vs. Scrapples Squad over at Sunshine Laundromat Pin Babes vs. Kettles Hand Grenades at Kettle of Fish schlubbs with a z versus pinister six at boat bar neptune's treasure versus butter ballers at buttermilk bar and the replays versus ball drainers at jack bar upcoming we also have several double and triple headers a lot of fun things happening this week wednesday the 16th we have a double header sunshine fall league number three at sunshine laundromat and we have arcade brooklyn pinball league both on wednesday the 16th thursday the 17th we have no bro presents thursday night strikes at Jack Bar. And on Sunday the 20th, we have a triple header event. We've got the Avatar Jersey Jack launch party at Sunshine Laundromat, the Stern Army Rob Wong Invitational at Rulo's, and the Jersey City Women's Open.
    20:49
    As of October 11th, 2024, there are 277 pinball machines in New York City at 85 public locations. Thanks to the creators and users of Pinball Map for this data, here are machine updates from the past week on sunday the 6th of october user mayor of now stopped by transmitter brewing and played their venom they said ball feels a little erratic it jumped over the playfield more often than i expected it also got dispensed twice during the lock sequence when all the lights were off so i think there's a glitch in the game On Tuesday, the 8th of October, Attack from Mars rejoined the lineup at Sunshine Laundromat. User DanTastic says, newly refurbished.
    21:38
    Also on Tuesday, user RadialHead stopped by the gutter lower east side and said of the getaway, one supercharger magnet is out and makes the ball fall out of the supercharger occasionally Playing nice otherwise Let talk about Rulo located at 565th Avenue in South Slope in Brooklyn
    22:01
    Your closest train is going to be the R at Prospect Avenue, but you could also take the FRG to 4th Avenue, 9th Street nearby. The B63 bus runs up and down 5th Avenue also. Madeline, I know you're not a drinker, and I think the first time that you came to Rulo's, I remember thinking, oh, you actually got the hot dogs. How'd that go? Oh, yes. I'm an enormous fan of their hot dogs and hot dogs in general. Brief aside, my grandmother, my mother's mother, when she moved to the U.S. with my grandfather, they were living in somewhere downtown New Jersey. And they were so poor when my grandfather went out to go for work that my grandmother just sit in the window all day. And then when she would look out the window, there'd be this hot dog cart. but they were so poor that they couldn't even buy a freaking hot dog from the cart. And so that smell would waft up and just like tempt her, but they couldn't even afford it. However, soon my grandfather found work and things ended up working out pretty well. And when my grandmother finally retired to Ithaca, every week the rest home would take a van to the mall. And while other people would go shopping or go for walks, my grandmother would go to the Target cafe at the time and every week she would order a hot dog. So part of me is just enjoying cheap, salty food. And part of me is also thinking of my grandmother every time. But I'm quite pleased with the Rulo's hot dogs. You've got a lot of things going with them. Obviously, you've got a good price. You've also got a couple different options for your toppings. I really quite enjoy how there is warm food at the bar. There's options in addition to just alcohol. I'm always pleased to see variety on the menu. There is something that happens when you go in and there's football on early on a Sunday or there's a pinball tournament happening at Rulo's and that's that Bart brings in a big pile of something. He will bring in, I think last time it was pasta salad, that he brought in a giant plate of pasta salad. He'll bring in a crock pot full of pulled pork or something like that a lot of the time when there is some kind of special event around. And so it doesn't show up on the menu, but sometimes the guy who owns the place, he's just going to cook for you, and you don't have to pay anything for it. That's kind of Bart. Always for the Rob Wong Invitational. Yeah, always for the RWI. So if Bart's the owner, who is Rulo?
    24:30
    That's a fine question. I don't know. Yeah, no, not sure. This is a question that may go down in infamy. I was smart enough when I was there last night, Thursday night, to ask Nico, the bartender, how to pronounce the name of it because it has been at question. And he assured me that it was Rulo's, but I was not smart enough to ask who's Rulo.
    24:57
    I really like the decor here, and I feel like, Madeline, you and I might disagree on this one because I like it because it's dark. Because it is... It has a light over every booth and the lights coming off the pinball games and the claw machine up front, which I think we should talk about at least a little bit, and a few other lights over the bar and whatnot. But these are all hanging chandeliers with shades so that there's not a lot of random light spill in this place.
    25:33
    The footpaths are dark. the overall ambience is dark. There are a few sconces on the wall in the back, but it is not a bright place. But I really like the ambient lighting here. How do you feel about it, Madeline? I think it is definitely a vibe, and I have seen it with more of the lights on prior to sunset hours, in which case it's a little easier to see. I do enjoy the booths with the individual light because it does feel very cozy. Even though it's a relatively tall ceiling space, it does seem to make a lot of nice alcoves for conversation, whether in the courtyard in the back or the booths at the front.
    26:19
    Eric, it does seem to me like this might be right up your alley if a little bit too clean. I think you're picking up on the kind of bars I like. Yeah, it is very much that and it tends on the clean side. I've never thought it was a particularly dark place, but maybe that's because I like the very darker places.
    26:45
    When you walk in, just on the right is a claw machine that I think we should spend a little bit of time on in a moment. But let's just briefly talk about the layout. There's also a booth right up front with frontage on Fifth Avenue on the left. Booths on the left lining the wall about the length of the bar, which is on the right. I haven't seen since the claw machine went in, but on both walls at the front, also crokinole boards. That's right. Crokinole boards. That's right. Two crokinole boards. and maybe one that has pegs and one that doesn't this is me being ignorant of crokinole is this two different things do we think i think they're both i think they're both pegs but one of them is like a hex shape and one's a full circle oh and one one's a little nicer than the other i think maybe i see now is crokinole is that like carom it it has some similarities you you flick little discs with your fingers and croconel yeah so maybe this is a circular carom if you will probably so the bar in the booths they go what 30 feet from the front door toward the back on both sides five or six booths on the left several stools at the bar on the right often during the hours between five and midnight, the hours that I'd be likeliest to be there, there are a comfortable assemblage of regulars sitting around in those spots up front. As you pass the bar, the right-hand side becomes one-lined bench, small tables, stools and chairs around to be able to sort of create your own space farther back on the right and on the left my goodness there are pinball machines eight in a bank right there and then a dartboard hanging in a place that might seem precarious because it it is used in two different formats, you might be sitting at a table eating or drinking something or you might move those tables out of the way and be using the dartboard. Please don't do both simultaneously. Unless you're really brave. Very brave. Or really good at darts. Maybe both. Maybe let's have both.
    29:29
    Just past that dartboard, there are two single-seat gender-neutral restrooms on the left. There is a very small brass-ish top bar next to a staircase leading down to the operational spaces of the space. These are not public spaces. Don't go down there unless you work there. And just past that, on the right-hand side, in a place that has an incredibly useful but annoying ramp that my right foot has to stand on is a Pirates of the Caribbean in the back. There's a patio out back with the kind of hours that you might expect, given that they have residential neighbors quite literally next door at the same level. but a nice patio out there what do y'all think of the decor in general the stippling on the ceiling and the textures and such are pretty fun to look at especially with the varying directions of shadows i think those are always quite interesting to observe in addition to the uh pinball happenings that's that's one of the things about that lighting too is that those those chandeliers have these strange have have holes in them that just project out little beams of light little rectangular beams of light and it's it lights the the rest of the space interestingly and as you point out you give that a little bit of texture such as oh i don't know for instance the entire brick wall exposed brick wall on the left hand side or a stippling ceiling as you point out It creates a really interesting effect. I like that a lot of the artwork that is hung around the space are nods to independent music from the 90s and a lot of which I recognize and like. And so obviously whoever picked those out shares a musical taste with me. You don't see a lot of reigning sound paintings hung up. So, yeah, I feel like there is a very specific musical thing that happens at Rulo's. And I'm going to tell you a story. This is anecdotal, but absolutely no shit. This happened to me.
    32:07
    Very shortly after James Bond 007 was put in there, which is very shortly after it was released, I went there with Ben H. of Collider's fame. to play this James Bond, this new pinball machine. The two of us often will go play a game together the first few times to try to help each other see the rules as a secondary set of eyes. And I was there playing this James Bond,
    32:36
    and I was playing a really good game, and people started loading in music behind me. A drum kit came in the door while I was playing a really good game of James Bond.
    32:49
    And I was playing this game and I just trapped up at some point because there was this great jazz sax playing behind me. And I trapped up and I looked at Ben H. and I said, there's real fucking jazz happening back there. And then I continued playing my game.
    33:09
    And Ravi Coltrane was playing saxophone just four feet behind me. as a part of what was happening at Rolos that night. And he didn't, no one asked me to stop playing pinball right then. We went up, there were other games up front then. We stayed away from where the music was played after that. But John Coltrane's son was playing saxophone behind me just because I was playing pinball at Rolos one random weeknight.
    33:40
    This is the kind of thing that happens. that drag bingo once a week i think right they do drag bingo once a week they do trivia some nights it there are karaoke karaoke they want to bring your children in during the day not to give them beer but to do kids pinball parties which is really sweet yeah like i said this place, it doesn't open until 5 o'clock. There are advertisements on the walls that say that they want to give your kids Shirley Temples for their birthday party to come play these nine pinball machines.
    34:22
    This is, there's a lot going on here, and I feel like all of it is community building and community driven and awesome. Clippers and flippers, train them early.
    34:35
    Front to back, Red and Ted's Roadshow. anybody have anything to say about that other than it's Pat Lawler and it might not be his best but it's still Pat Lawler I was going to say it's a pinball machine correct the eyelids on one of the heads close only halfway and from the bottom I am more than in the middle of the uncanny valley and more than just a little unnerved when I look at it But I do like how there's, you know, two heads are better than one, I guess. Every time we're recording, Friday, it's quitting time. Always pops into my head. See, 530 is when we usually record on Friday nights. It's just time for Red to tell us all about it. The Big Lebowski, just to the right of Red and Ted's.
    35:28
    What do we think about the Big Lebowski? It has a do not disturb or you might call it an out of order sign on it right now. It's hard to keep one of those running, but it's remarkable when it is. This one has had more uptime than any other Big Lebowski I have ever seen. I want to say that in no uncertain terms. It also has the collector's edition or whatever rug hung on the wall behind it. That is worth noting. A nice touch. Yeah, it really ties the room together, man.
    36:04
    Yeah. I set some up. You knock some down. Pulp Fiction is just to the right of the Big Lebowski. It's the new darling. It's not my favorite one. I like the new retro feel, if you will. Yeah, me too. I think that's kind of fun. It's a new take on an old thing. directly to the right of pulp fiction is james bond 007 it's a solid modern stern it's a neat layout by gomez the rules have evolved to a point where it's uh yeah it's a good challenge it's it's no longer completely boring yeah i always like to select that at rulos because it's the most illuminated of all the tables and i can see the ball still don't know how to play it yet but i can see the ball so that's a start directly to the right of dr no is johnny mnemonic i i have the opinion that the gto strategy on this is boring as hell but what else do we think what is gto game theory optimal if i worked out strategy you and i agree on what the right strategy on this game is we've talked about it uh specifically though ramps all day until the super spinner lights which also means yakuza all day and it's just it's just banging on those two ramps until the spinner is lit and then continuing to bang on those two ramps you know spinner until the ball's over then ramps ramps ramps ramps ramps uh it matches the video tutorials i've watched about how to play this table that that is the game theory optimal version of scoring on this game as far as i'm concerned uh someone could probably who actually knows the underlying theories of game theory optimal could tell me more about that but i that's that's which it makes for a good competitive pinball game?
    38:08
    Well, I mean, it does, kind of. Skills, fast reactions on Johnny DeMonaco's famously fast table. And only really four shots to hit. There are only four of the eight shots that matter on the game, or seven shots that matter on the game, right?
    38:26
    There's a fun video mode in there. There's tic-tac-toe in there. There's a snarf. Claw machine, if you will, light in there. Some magnets in there. Some retro futurism, if you will, in there? To be fair, the claw is turned off on this one. It is set in the sort of competition mode of you just hit the... This is part of why I say there are only four shots to hit, because five of the seven shots would matter if the claw mattered. But it doesn't on this one. My favorite fun fact about this table is that the laser whip, or the mono wire in the movie, if you have the color DMD of the table, they color it white. But that's not the correct color. It should be orange. Somebody needs to fix the colors on the color DMD for Johnny Mnemonic to make the laser whip orange. Just to the right of Johnny Mnemonic is John Wick. I've played this one a few times. I mean, it feels a lot like James Bond when it first came out sort of bare in terms of code there's a rules thing on it that i think is going to be exciting eventually how do we feel about the enemies the idea that there are a variable number of people that might be blocking your ability to collect a value on a shot which is i believe the theory behind the enemies on any given shot i think it's i think it's interesting i think that's an interesting twist also as you collect the enemies you're progressing towards your boss battles, which are a separate system than the modes. So that's interesting, but it has yet to gel. I am a novice at best. Do I need the car multiball or the Winston multiball more? I couldn't tell you. Pick your favorite, Benjamin. I think the car feels easier to get to.
    40:25
    Just because the locks for Winston on the center ramp is hard from either flipper. Yeah, true. Especially if it's rolling, I don't think you can make it. I think you've got to hit the center from a trap.
    40:40
    Trap on the left, at least on this one. Maybe not on all of them, but it feels like it has to be on the left. That tracks. Just to the right of John Wick, at which it turns out we're all novice, is Star Trek The Next Generation. It's hard to see the... Classic clunker? Yes. Yeah. Classic Clunker's right. Hard to See the Ball is right. I am drastically more interested in it. Now that the ROMs have been updated to have a randomized video mode. Ooh.
    41:15
    That, I think I have understood, has happened on effectively all of the Star Trek The Next Generations in the city or the greater metro area. and that feels like it's...
    41:30
    I have more choices at the beginning of the game. I find it curious. I've been watching competitive players playing Next Gen on the various copies in the city, all of which have this ROM, and I am watching a good number of them playing video mode more often now. Huh. Do you think you're watching a good number of them score more points?
    41:59
    No. Far fewer points. That's what I thought. But they're doing it again and again. They're going back for this incredibly non-lucrative random video mode.
    42:15
    I really like starting Warp 4. Yeah. so I think I'm seeing it sort of evolve into two camps there's people who are starting to go for warp ramps for warps and the warp ramp and getting to warp 9 mode and then as a mere subset people are doing a ski pass from right to left instead of from left to right and when they're on the left they're shooting the orbit or the right ramp and that is qualifying their video mode and is qualifying their multi-ball. I do like how you can do the fire the phasers, similar to the Terminator 2. I think that's kind of fun. I think in both games, I still don't know how to aim either of them, but I like the concept. I think that's pretty cool. Just to the right of Star Trek The Next Generation is my absolute favorite game that is on location anywhere in the greater metro area right now, Bonsai Run. The bank is flanked by two Pat Lawlers. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. The bank is flanked. I like it.
    43:27
    My goodness, this game. How they let a designer put an entire pinball game in a back glass in what I think was his first design as the designer of record. I don know how they saw his genius they believed in a genius And I can be more thankful for what happened in the career that followed Brilliant game.
    44:00
    Right back there in the corner, where my right foot has to be on a ramp that must be there. The whole way in the back, next to the patio, is Pirates of the Caribbean, the stern version. It's a sentimental favorite of mine. It's real clunky. It's not real deep, but I just, boy, I really enjoy playing it. You have to put your right foot on the ramp so you feel more like a pirate. You have to play peg-legged. Oh, maybe I've been thinking about it wrong. You've got to be the pirate. I've been thinking about it wrong.
    44:37
    You've got to get in the mindset, Benjamin. You've got to think like a pirate to play the pirate game. well i don't i don't i have not looked at what uh games will be holes in the park sloth pin golf tomorrow but if that's one of them uh let me just say i do appreciate how with the pirates and with the godzilla there's options for language uh i kind of wish in general there was more accessibility from that respect sure uh for fun i always like picking the alternate language i can read lots of spanish i know spanish pretty well i don't know any japanese i'll still set godzilla japanese suggest for fun. Sure. You get yourself a yellow card if you set that to Spanish on a tournament game, though. Wait, really? Because the first player determines it for the whole group. Oh. And so you're giving a language disadvantage to the rest of the players by doing it. I just think it's funny it's in Spanish and Japanese. Yeah.
    45:34
    Yeah. Okay, that's worth the yellow card for me. I mean, not the... I mean, If you weren't aware, of course. Well, thank you for letting me know in case I somehow already accumulate a yellow card. Just be a warning, you know.
    45:53
    You're a real troublemaker, Madeline. I just think it's funny. It's hilarious. It's just in Spanish.
    46:00
    It is. If Spanish were my first language and I were playing against people whom it wasn't, I also feel like there's a real argument for that shouldn't be. a yellow card in that particular scenario although if if benjamin does it because i don't speak a lick of spanish if i said it that way it couldn't be for anything but spite oh wait y'all before we go to ball three we have to talk about we have to talk about the claw machine not just the pinball machine the claw machine at the very front uh two mondays ago when we were playing at buttermilk and the other team was deciding outside because usually if we're the home team at buttermilk we'll be right in the middle and then the visiting team will either be in the back by the bathrooms or outside. That will be one of the two places where they'll be considering their next move. The team outside with the sheet, they were thinking real hard about their strategy. And I was thinking real hard about how hungry I was. So I decided to see if I could go to Rulo's from Buttermilk, order a hot dog and come back before the other team had finished deciding what they're going to choose for the next round. To be clear, there's a hot dog roller inside Rulo's. So this is a place where you could reasonably do that. This is the reasonable expectation, sometimes at least.
    47:17
    I mean, you can walk into anywhere and ask if they have hot dogs, but you'll be more successful at Rulo's than maybe at Buttermilk or Domino's, perhaps. But anyways, there were no hot dogs that evening, but I saw the claw machine, and so I spent six ones into the claw machine to try and see if I could figure out the strong and weak grab frequency of the claw machine. every time I did one pull I'd poke my head out to see if the other team was still deciding or not and if they were and I put another dollar into the claw machine can we talk about the strong weak grab frequency uh yes and what that means is that is this a known quantifiable thing that you're talking about yes so what's interesting and I think about this a lot especially as a teacher when you have a lot of things that children interact with, right? You have the addictivity of the loot boxes that are much more easier to access nowadays since children are playing Fortnite and such on their mobile phone, whereas before you needed a whole rig, and that was a cost barrier, therefore an age correlation, yada, yada. There are a lot of Western arcade games that are essentially gambling, where there's very little skill involved. It's pretty much all chance, and sometimes the skill games will mask the the chance games will masquerade as a skill game and that makes me especially sad because again you think you're getting better at something but you're not in a claw machine you can change how much voltage is applied to closing the claw depending uh on how often you'd like the claw to close so if you want your claw to close strong only once out of every $100, you can set that. That's easy to set. Yes. So you might think it's all about just setting the XY of the claw and dropping it, but no matter how well you position it, if you're not on the next strong grab, you're not going to get the prize most likely. So what I was doing is I was trying to see, is it every $3, is it every $5, is it every $10, et cetera? Did you figure it out? It's at least $6. Right. It's at least six. What's a normal number?
    49:26
    The inputs for most of those OSs are anywhere between zero and 999. So it's kind of hard to find. It depends on the venue and needs of the venue. Given that the prize is one free beer, which is $8, that tells me maybe it's set at about $12. I'm guessing. And the koozie. Yes, you get the koozie. So it's hard to tell. But anyways, this isn't to say that a business owner is shady or not. It's simply you're setting the level of challenge as well as something that's sustainable for your business. Similar to the replay score at a pinball table. It just depends on which competitors are using the claw machine. There's a couple other strategies as well. There's the double tap. You don't have to wait for the claw to hit the bottom before it grabs automatically. You can push the button a second time and it will grab as soon as you push the button a second time. So if you want to adjust the Z height at which the claw is grabbing, you also have control over that. And then the comment I put earlier in our colliders chat, there was a pink squid plushie that was outside of the XY range of the claw. And you might think, oh, well, if I can't get the claw all the way to the left, I just can't get the squid plushie. There is another strategy where you rock the claw back and forth like a chandelier. And as the claw is perhaps horizontal, then you drop the claw. So it lands horizontal, grabs the plushie, and then moves it maybe six inches into range, into XY range of the claw. And even if you're on a weak grab, at least you've moved it a couple inches over closer towards the prize hole. Yeah. And there is a third strategy. Oh, we seem to have lost Eric down the prize hole as well. That's not a euphemism. However, for those listening at home, Eric has been kicked out of the Zoom. but the third strategy also you don't have to pick up the thing all the way have it go all the way back up and then drop it down some people are able to drag the prize over to the prize hole without the prize going all the way up all the way over and then all the way down however on this machine the prize divider between the pile of prizes and the hole is quite high so this strategy will not work here. If you're interested in the rabbit hole that is claw machines, and claw machines are far more luck than they are skill, and I'd say pinball, it's mostly skill with a little bit of luck. I highly recommend going to Anime Claw, either in Chinatown, Manhattan, or in Flushing. They have locations in both. You have a wide range of different kinds of claw machines. There's kinds where you pick up ping pong balls, you have to drop them in a certain hole. There's kinds where you pick up dice and you have to roll a die. There's kinds where you have to poke the plushie through a wire mesh in a certain direction. That's crazy. Yes. And they also have the employer, the Suri Matsen, where they will actually assist you with the prize. A lot of claw machines are set up to be like in the Walmart parking lot or something, and they're unattended. But properly interactive claw machines, you can actually swap out prizes. So you can actually go to the staff and say, hey, I won this green prize. Can I swap it out at the same machine for a blue one and they will do that. Or you're like, hey, I accidentally knocked the prize over in the wrong direction. Can you reset it for me? And they will literally open the machine and reset it for you. So that's why I recommend going to Anime Claw out of all the possible claw locations in either Flushing or Manhattan Chinatown if you wish to pursue this further. This is much more expensive than pinball. Your dollars will go by much faster than pinball, even if you're very good at the hobby. But I'm most pleased to see that Bart has a variety of events and activities in this venue. It's not just one thing. No matter who you are, whether you like sports, whether you like the debate, whether you want to play bingo, croquenole, I'm glad to see there's a lot of different on-ramps or doors to this tent that is the Rulo's venue. Yeah, yeah, I'm with that. And to be fair, Bart, the owner of the bar, a big shout out to Bart DeCourcy he is the vision I think behind the Rob Wong Invitational I think Jess is executing it Jess is the back and the muscle and the brains in almost all Jess is everything but that vision at the beginning of it but I think it was his idea to say like, you know, this one person has a high score on every single game here. I'll buy a t-shirt for anyone who can, in a tournament setting, beat one of those high scores. That's a pretty cool idea. And, and my, look, a t-shirt isn't going to bring me anywhere because I wear collars, thank you. But it is, you know. We have to get a collared shirt for the next one, Benjamin. Well, maybe that would work.
    54:28
    We'll sew one on for you. Yeah, a patch that I can sew onto my blazer would be perfect. That's it. I really, really enjoy Rulo's. I enjoyed it when it was Club Car, which was its previous iteration. It was a restaurant. I enjoy it now. I enjoyed it when there were two pinball games up front and when there were two to five pinball games in total. And I fucking love it now that there are nine.
    55:04
    Really love this place. It is certainly not the very first place that I go just because I could throw something and hit buttermilk from where I am. But it's really comforting to me to know that if I just didn't want to be at Buttermilk anymore, that this is the place that's closest or vice versa. That's really awesome. These two places right next to each other and almost as a venue of themselves for tournaments because they are the backup venue to each other for tournaments really increases the value of this place to me too.
    55:45
    It's better together. More pinball venues means everyone wins. Well then, ball three. Let's talk about skill shots. Even though claw machines are mostly locked with a little bit of skill, the name skill shot would imply that it's all about skill here. However, whenever I approach a table with a so-called skill shot, I'm often perplexed by the intentions of the designer about this so-called skill shot, or what I might just call a gimmick. Am I supposed to practice hours of my time learning a timing or a certain series of flashing lights? Am I supposed to figure out the exact number of millimeters I'm supposed to pull this spring? Am I supposed to figure out which outlaying goes to which ball that goes to which spring, depending on how far I pull the plunger? Does it even matter? Do I even get enough points? Should I forgo the skill shot entirely and go for something else and keep my ball safe? I'm not always sure. And that's why today we should talk about skill shots. I think it's a really interesting question. I consider myself a student of skill shots. Every new machine that comes out, I'm trying to find out how to do it, how to reproduce it in competition setting to get the most points. It's one more weapon in my arsenal as we go along.
    57:10
    Benjamin, I'm interested to hear how you approach a timing-based skill shot, such as on The Walking Dead.
    57:18
    So, to me, and this is interesting because I actually pitched this segment initially thinking it would be about timed stuff. And a lot of skill shots are timed, but The Walking Dead is a really specific example. And it's not the only one, but it's a compound skill shot insofar as you have both the ability to roll over two star rollover lanes when they're lit. And also go past them through a gate and collect a top lane that you can select. So you need both the timing of letting go at the right time to roll over the two roll over lanes, which, by the way, once you've got the first one, it gets faster. And once you've got the second one, it gets faster again.
    58:13
    Mm hmm. and also you have to choose with your flippers which of the rollover lanes which is a little you know that's a lot of skill shots are as simple as just i have taken the flipper and hit it a certain number of times before i pulled the plunger there there's a different kind of compound skill shot though and there's one on a game which i know you are a student of eric that i think is worth discussing, Ghostbusters has a really interesting compound skill shot. It also has an exploitive, I believe, timing-based pseudo skill shot. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. I'd call it the juggling skill shot, where you launch the ball partway up the shooter lane, but not so far as to enter the play field. Let it roll back down towards the plunger. and then hit it full force exactly as it comes back, such that it barely has time to sit on the switch at the bottom of the plunger lane, so that it's not recognized.
    59:26
    And then, if successfully hit it full force out, will give you the right orbit skill shot. Oh, dang. And that then necessarily, though, also surpasses any attempt at the compound part of the skill shot, because you've already gone past the top lanes, correct? Yeah, it'll have to go past the top lanes in order to do it. But in the new code, with this compound top lane plus selectable shot, skill shot,
    60:01
    until you hit a wrong top lane, you can still collect the correct top lane as a skill shot. Ah. That's fun. I think maybe those turn off after a wrong bottom skill shot, too. I don't remember. Yeah, that's interesting. I thought I had missed it after I got a bottom. I've managed to get back up to the top lanes and have it go through the one I had previously selected and still get it, having done business on the bottom of the play field before. Uh-huh. Doubly exploitative.
    60:36
    Yeah. So, Madeline, I think you bring up a really interesting question about effectively the, if I can put it in economic terms, the value proposition of the skill shot. because there are games in which it just isn't worth it. Game of Thrones, I think of. Oh, Game of Thrones. Well, I never want a skill shot in Game of Thrones. I never want to qualify the play field until I have taken my first shot. And if I missed my first shot, ideally also my second shot on Game of Thrones.
    61:12
    Soft plunge it like it's an industrial toilet. similarly there are super skill shots there are times that the value proposition is do I hold down a flipper in full plunge so that I can do a thing or do I do look there are some outliers here Congo for instance and Iron Maiden have a you know plunge to the outlane thing I'm sure there are a few other games that have something similar and that's a real outlier to this conversation because in order for you to plunge directly to the out lane there has to be a giant reward right it has it feels like a giant risk so it there should be a giant reward it's a false sense of a giant risk because your ball save is usually extended by it instead of depleted by it but there it feels like a high risk yes right those those are outsized i think is there anything else that's outsized that y'all can think of in terms of skill shots is there any time that like it's a no-brainer you must go for the skill shot those are the two that come to mind for me i'm not sure i can think of one where you should definitely go for it but i can kind of see the skill shot being useful in general where if you're a new player and you're just told to aim for a flashing light, oh, well, there's a big friendly flashing light right in your plunge lane. This might help get you started in aiming for other flashing lights with the flipper. I think it's pretty important to have a feel for the plunger strength every time a ball is served to the plunger lane on total nuclear annihilation. I don't want that thing shooting out at full strength. I'm trying to put it up onto the top.
    63:05
    That's a good point. Even in the middle of locking balls and stuff, and it's going to auto-plunge, but I want to be there in front of it to put it out the strength that I would like it to come out.
    63:19
    Yeah, that's true. I like the skill shot on that one because with that, at least you've got a little bit of the rails for the plunge lane if you wanted to tap or nudge it a bit. With the out-lane plunges for some of those other tables, I feel like I'm really shooting in the dark here, and my skill is just kind of guessing how strong the spring is. A jackpot just occurred to me as another one that I probably never want to actually hit a qualify the play field on the plunge. I would never ever want to. That's an excellent example. It's interesting when the shooter lane serves it up mid play field, which is the necessary condition of an out lane possibility, right? You can't serve something up top playfield and then have an outlane skill shot. That's crazy. That's a good point. I think there's an interesting geometry involved in something that has an outlane skill shot. Whirlwind has something similar, I guess, too, right? And Foo Fighters, I suppose. Star Wars has a very challenging compound timing skill shot where you want to bank off the TIE fighter targets when the right one is lit and have it go into the force targets when the right one is lit. Yeah, when the F or the O is lit. And then not, you know, just immediately drain every time you plunge. Yeah, yeah. It's sort of the skill shot on Star Trek. Yeah, Star Wars, yeah. Star Wars. Yeah, yeah. It's the perfect. Same thing. Yeah, I'm old enough for those to be fighting words, but they're not.
    65:00
    That one's really interesting, too, because every skill shot on the game, and this is going to maybe lead us into another interesting question about skill shots. Every skill shot on the game starts by you selecting an award that you are going to get. and the very game starts by you selecting a character.
    65:24
    One of those characters plays very well with Spelling Force, Luke. If you start with Luke and you get that skill shot three times, you are effectively at a lightsaber duel on ball three guaranteed Now lightsaber duel is kind of a jail mode but it also kind of fun so there more paths perhaps when you have the skill shot worked in i still hung up on the skill part i mean i can look up ahead of time the paths to take for the uh video mode of star trek tng i can look up ahead of time i should pick luke and aim for force but what what am i getting better at i'm getting better at counting lights or pulling the spring a certain amount and i'm skeptical of that because that skill doesn't have any transfer to the learning the timing of how do i angle my shots or how do i bounce the ball from one flipper to another and i feel weird because you could be really good at the plunger part or the timing part but that doesn't necessarily make you better at the flipper part. There's about four physical interactions you can have with a pinball machine. You've got two flippers, most of them have a plunger, and then you've got the body of the machine, which is available for you to move about to a degree that the operator will tell you. I would like to qualify what you've said and say there are two flipper buttons, and there may be multiple flippers that are actuated by them, but I agree with what you're saying in principle. A quarter of your physical impact is coming through the plunger spring.
    67:08
    That's a good point. A quarter of the multitude of possibilities of your interactions, whether or not a quarter in quantity.
    67:18
    True. But, you know, I just make it standard practice to show up to tournaments early, and I'm trying all the plungers I can. Yeah. Yeah, plungers are important. So how do we feel about, I know how I feel about them, but I want to hear about how you two feel about skill shots wherein one simply chooses an award. this is this is a common thing in data east games of the mid to late 90s this happens i just called out star wars as a place that you literally at the beginning of every single ball choose what award you're going to get for plunging the ball how do we feel about this you didn't choose a path you chose an award it's not skill it's a misnomer i think that's a holdover it's from bagatelle i I think that's a crossover more into the, I had to look this up, The Simpsons Kooky Carnival made by Stern in 2006 or Ticket Tacto made by Williams in 96. These arcade timing-based, mostly for fun redemption type things. I see it as an artifact of that more so than the name skill implies. I do think they are fun and I think they are a way to interact with the table. But if you're just choosing what you get and it doesn't matter what it is, it's just a shot. I want to ever so briefly. And I hate using this phrase because it's not exactly what I'm doing. But I want to ever so briefly play devil's advocate on it, on this idea that choosing an award is nothing. Insofar as if I chose the right awards in sequence over three balls, I might have made a real impact on my overall score. that is the that's the only way i think i i think we're talking about something that happens inside your brain we're not talking about something that happens on flippers when you say the skill but i don't i guess it's a question of whether or not knowledge is skill at that point right yeah knowledge is skill knowing all the little bits about every pinball game i don't know I've invested deeply in this right right right that's the thing no other paradigm can be true because of how much what did I have in this one seriously this is my whole world Benjamin so I mean is it like what do you have let me ask the question a different way do you have prescriptive sequences, balls one to three, of choose your own adventure skill shots. I'm going to call those the choose your own adventure skill shots. There's no, you've just chosen the adventure. All you're doing is turning to page 52 because it says turn to page 52. But when you have three times in the game, do you have prescriptive sequences on certain games of the chosen awards for skill shots?
    70:46
    Yeah, in general, I do. I mean, I think a lot of, you know, how I approach games strategically is from the idea of a script that I have in my head. These are the things that I want to make happen as it goes along, and skill shots play a big part into that. And, you know, sometimes maybe you make an, you know, you have to adapt in the middle of a game and you flip the script. But, yeah, I'm following a storyline. I don't care for football, but the West Coast offense was script the first five plays.
    71:24
    And the West Coast offense changed the NFL. And I often try to think of that when I am thinking about pinball. If I'm smart enough, when I'm trapped up, my question is, what are the next five shots? It's not, what's the next shot? It's one of the next five.
    71:47
    It doesn't happen. I'm not that smart that often in the middle of a pinball game. It's very hard to actually maintain that kind of cool and be that smart in the moment. See, the way I was trained, there's knowledge, understanding, and skill, and those are in three different domains. That's from a pedagogical lens. On the other hand, you could say a Hadouken is down, diagonal, forward, A, and anybody can know that, but you got to practice the timing to get the skill down sure you also have to have the understanding that informs the skill even though i know that's not your your i understand where you're that understanding is the synthesis right of the knowledge and the skill is that where you're coming from there i think what my professor said a long time ago and this is the other issue that none of the lingo is very standardized and there's a lot of synonyms but knowledge is a a thing that is only true in one aspect like this is the fact that only works here understanding is a bigger idea where that idea can be universal different situations and the skill is being able to do that's cool last night during the south slope finals b finals the final game of the final round was Ghostbusters. I was player three. I have a script I follow on Ghostbusters.
    73:09
    But I've been questioning whether it's the right strategic approach for me. Maybe I should be changing it up. And last night I watched the first two players step up and do nothing in particular. And I decided at that point I had one point from the first two games in a 4-2-1-0 scoring. and so was looking pretty bad in going into game three. I was like, okay, well, now's the time to change it up. So for ball one, I stepped up and I changed my skill shot. Normally, I would be prioritizing collecting ghosts to progress towards my locks to get to multiball. Two players hadn't done much, and I was like, well, maybe this will be one of those games where, you know, I don't need to get to multiball. I should just grind out some simple little mode points. I tried the juggle skill shot and it failed, it did not register and I wound up missing my skill shot and then my ball did not go great, it was over pretty quickly just like everyone else's continued on to ball two, instead of trying the juggle skill shot I just set up start a mode skill shot again on the new strategy idea of let's get some little mode points and try to just eek past and played a little bit and uh it was sort of middle of the pack no one had done too much but then on ball three uh players wanted to put up some bigger scores and i'm like well i'm not going to get there uh on on this mode thing it's not paying off and i switched back to going for collecting ghosts even though at this point now i'm you know two skill shots behind two skill shots where I haven't been collecting ghosts to light my locks I got the ghost skill shot I had already coincidentally locked a ball during the first two balls from banging on the captive ball and lighting the lock so this skill shot got me enough to light my second lock and I put it in, banged on the captive ball to light the third, started my multi-ball and I came away with a win on that Ghostbusters after getting my multi-ball and it was enough to get me second place in B the story of the skill shots Hmm. Should I start the script of how I play my game from the standpoint of the special condition of the skill shot? It's a special condition. The game rules change as soon as the skill shot is no longer eligible. As soon as you can't get the skill shot, as soon as you've either collected it or not collected it in whatever demonstrable way, the rules of the game change. And so, as Madeline points out, it's a value prop question. When is it valuable enough that I am actually switching the mode that I play this game for the amount of time that it takes until it switches back to the other mode, until it switches into the normal mode? Do I actually start a script from a place that is outside the bounds of normal reality? When you were saying before you're thinking five shots ahead. Yeah. I'm not sure if I know how many shots ahead I am thinking. But when I do step up to the machine, I'm thinking several. And the skill shot's one of them. And taking into account the fact that the rules of the game are going to change. is an important part of that. Is that right? Yes. Would you agree with that? That you are thinking about, I'm going to hit skill shot X, and if it happens, and then there is a two-prong pass. I'm in Robert Frost's world here. But in the poem, it doesn't really matter which one you take. A lot of games, it doesn't matter either. My second shot is determined whether or not I make the skill shot. sometimes if you make the skill shot, yeah, it changes what the next shot is. If I don't get my gear in Jaws, well, I got to go to the shack and then get my gear. And that does add an extra step into what I'm thinking about. Although ironically for me, you can think ahead as much as I can think ahead as much as I want. But unlike in chess, whether or not I actually am able to do the thing I want to do is far less likely. So my strategy is usually just, let's go with whatever's the most likely shot to happen. Then we'll plan off the next most likely shot after that. Everyone's got to play until they get punched in the mouth. You have to be able to flip that switch.
    78:03
    To be able to and if you are going to hit a skill shot and you are going to have a plan for your ball that isn't you know, just keep the ball on the play field.
    78:15
    You have to walk into it knowing what both of those things are. And I think that might be the most important thing about the skill shot although madeline your your value prop question is really interesting because there are it's five seconds of the game right but you know what the difference between i don't have the number in front of me i didn't look it up the difference between hitting the skill shot that on the walking dead on all three balls in such a way that you collect all three segments of it versus hitting it on all three balls where you only collect the top lane is like three million points.
    79:00
    That's roughly, that's a rough number off the top of my head, but I think it's about that much difference over the three balls.
    79:07
    And that's, like, on that game, which is a feast or famine game, that could be the difference between you know one place and the next easily and so I think that thinking about the timing of something like that and feeling like you've got that on lockdown at least if you're a competitive player is really worth trying to take the time and figure that shit out well I'll be a devil for a minute Ben sometimes I get irked if the spring is not what I think it is. Or if I've learned the timing for one table, I go to my janky Ithaca table for the same thing. And I realized the timing that I learned previously and all the counting I did has no value anymore. But then I guess that leads to the adaptability. Well, if on ball one, your skill shot timing was X, then you have to adjust it for ball two. Most of the time, when I walk up to a strength-based skill shot for the first time, I don't look at the meter. I feel it. Oh, I never look at the meter. And then, after I have felt it, and if I determine, like, no, I'm just, I'm not going to get there, then I'll start looking at the meter. But I think that just pulling back and letting go and feeling that spring, as you say, like, well, the spring isn't like that, But I know the difference between a tight spring and a loose spring. I know you do too. And I feel like understanding that element of physics and the way that the pull on your fingers of that spring is one of the things that makes a skill shot a skill shot. I concur most certainly there.
    81:02
    I have a fun idea for a skill shot. there's this great arcade game by Taito that came out in 2019 called Omatsuri Quest Hipare Q. O-M-A-T-S-U-R-I space quest space H-I-P-P-A-R-E dash Q. If you look this up right now, you will immediately see the connection I am making between this arcade game and skill shots. This game is similar to Bishy Bashy that you'll see in various arcade locations, but instead of a set of buttons, it's just one giant plunger. And you can move the plunger in and out. You can also rotate it. There's different mini games based on the frequency of moving the plunger, how much you rotate it. I think it would be very interesting, if not very difficult, to implement this into a pinball machine, but this could make a very novel, if not also skill-based, skill shot. A redemption game I didn't mention in the report earlier was basically just a plunger, and it would shoot a ball up this long chute, and you wanted to drop it into one spot that was about, I don't know, seven-eighths of the way up, but not all the way up. And man, I put a lot of dollars into that thing. I eventually did win it, and I was very proud. So that's a Totan type. So I will correct myself then. I do like the Totan still shot, because that also reminds me of the Arcade Redemption type. Yeah. No, it has... The Totan is very much... It gives you the randomization of one of these is worth more, and you have to choose among the three different speeds that you can put the ball onto the play field, that's great. Yeah, that's a really good example. I really like that one. That has something in common with World Cup soccer also, which is also a Gottlieb. What's that Gottlieb table that's exactly the same? Whatever, it doesn't matter. But, yeah. The other one. That one. Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about. That one. Tom Pompadour games always have an interesting way for the ball to enter the playfield, not a traditional plunge usually. I guess Totan, the exception, that one is a midfield plunge, but most of the rest of them come to the right flipper. Theater, World Cup. Sorry, you said Totan. You mean circus. I meant circus. You mean Circus Voltaire. Circus Voltaire is a mid-playfield plunge. Mid-playfield. Totan comes to the right flipper. Yeah. I would love to see, following that theme, of inspiration from arcade games i quite like the williams indiana jones we have to tilt the ball down the uh side i think that could be a fun thing as a skill shot because that's like a alternate yes that's like an alternate uh gimmick if you will similar to what you might find in arcade coin rolling game and maybe that would also fit well at the beginning of your game not just I can't think of anything that puts it that takes the special condition of the skill shot and puts it in the special condition of the special play field outside of. And this will bring us right back to Rulo's and maybe right back to the question of the categorically necessary skill shot. bonsai run if you can shoot the ball so that it goes into that hole that the little biker would come down and drop it on the upper play field as the next shot it will light the next racer and it will put the ball immediately on that upper play field so that you will have the opportunity to double your score up there and also put the ball up on that jump shot, which is 50,000 points increasing by 25,000 every time you hit it. And you can double it each time. So that is... It's 100K the first time you do it. It's one of the more challenging strength-based skill shots, but I would say that is definitely one that you go for. Is it also, you say it's 100K the first time you do it, it also doubles and triples, right? So that if you get it on the third ball, if you get it on all three balls, you have scored 600,000 points via skill shot on Banzai Run, which only has a one million digit on your scorecard on the back. So you are halfway to filling up the scorecard. You're not halfway to rolling it. you're 5% of the way to rolling it, but you are halfway to filling up the score display. Right? I think that's right. Making seven digits. Yeah, right.
    86:05
    That's worth it then. It leads to everything. Everything about that game is lighting everything on the back glass. And if you can do it on a skill shot that also has a really high value because it's also really difficult. It's not easy. to hit that skill shot. But if you can do it, you know, every time, boy, you can score a lot of points on that game. Well then, to all our loyal and lovely listeners out there, if you have any hot takes, hard truths, or helpful hints about skill shots, leave us a comment down below. If you enjoyed this topic and want to hear more, let us know. And if you didn't, also feel free to let us know. Leave a like, hit subscribe, and ring that bell. Thank you very much, and we'll see you next week.
    86:50
    That's all for this week's pod. I'd like to thank DFW and Zen Zokniak for sending us information about their Monday and Tuesday night pinball matches. In particular, I would like to thank DFW for his clever screed full of creed.
    87:06
    Join us next week when we will run down local competition results. In Ball 2, I believe we will review Jack Bar as a pinball venue. And in Ball 3, we will speak with Alex Kelly of Nightlight Pinball.
    87:24
    Whatever you're doing, between now and then, go get them, pinpo.