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DPP #175 "We Got WICK!! But at what cost?!?"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·39m 21s·analyzed·Feb 21, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

John Wick accessories overpriced; Evil Dead launches code-complete vs X-Men's slow updates.

Summary

Don reviews John Wick pinball accessories (topper, armor, shooter rod, expression lights, backbox speaker lights) and criticizes pricing—particularly the $1,400 topper and $280 armor. He contrasts Evil Dead's code-complete launch with X-Men's delayed updates, noting X-Men received a .90 code update after weeks of waiting. Don speculates Indiana Jones was cancelled to accelerate John Wick and X-Men releases, and discusses secondary market depreciation risks for X-Men similar to Foo Fighters.

Key Claims

  • X-Men was moved up in the schedule, rumored to be because Indiana Jones (John Borg design) was cancelled

    low confidence · Don speculating on why X-Men received early release; states this is speculation but 'seems like it makes sense'

  • Evil Dead code feels complete at launch with all eight modes finished, contrasting with X-Men

    high confidence · Don directly comparing launch code quality between the two games based on personal gameplay

  • X-Men .90 code update is 'not a revolutionary code update but it's something'

    high confidence · Don played the update at District 1 and describes improvements to Juggernaut mode but limited scope

  • John Wick topper is $1,400; armor is $280; expression lights are $600

    high confidence · Don stating official Stern pricing for all John Wick accessories

  • John Wick LE cabinet aesthetic (stained glass cathedral) clashes with neon noir topper design

    high confidence · Don directly critiquing visual compatibility between topper and LE cabinet art style

  • X-Men has persistent ball jank around sentinel head shot, particularly on right-side ramp entry

    high confidence · Don describing ongoing playfield quality issues from personal gameplay experience

  • Indiana Jones was planned as Raiders of the Lost Ark standalone but failed to get Harrison Ford callouts, would have used sound-alikes with Sallah

    low confidence · Don citing hearsay: 'somebody told me' this was the plan; explicitly marked as unverified

Notable Quotes

  • “Contrast that to where X-Men was at launch...we've been waiting. We've been waiting for essentially yesterday.”

    Don @ ~mid-episode — Expresses frustration over X-Men's slow code update cycle compared to other Stern releases

  • “Evil Dead...feels code complete already. Like every one of the eight modes in there is complete. They're interesting.”

    Don @ ~early episode — Direct contrast between launch code quality of Evil Dead vs X-Men, setting tone for accessory pricing discussion

  • “I think people are still holding on, like, we've got to get some serious 1.0-style code here, or we're all going to be dumping this game.”

    Don @ ~mid-episode — Articulates community sentiment that X-Men secondary market risk mirrors Foo Fighters market flooding

  • “$1,500 for the best topper in pinball...I think I would just be frustrated. I think I would just get out.”

    Don @ ~price discussion — Strong criticism of John Wick topper pricing; suggests owners may sell rather than complete LE

  • “It's like I'm grabbing someone's belt buckle. I bumped into him at a honky-tonk bar...that's what it's going to feel like.”

    Don @ ~shooter rod discussion — Humorous but critical assessment of blood oath token shooter rod ergonomics

  • “The shooter rod, to me, should be something that fits in the hand and makes you happy that you have it whenever you use it.”

    Don @ ~shooter rod section — Establishes Don's design philosophy for accessory quality and user experience

  • “For $1,500, at this point I would just sell my John Wick, take my lumps and go get something else, man.”

    Don @ ~price discussion conclusion — Final stance on topper pricing; signals potential impact on LE owner retention

  • “I still have this...I will mail this thing out to you. You can throw it in there and tell me what you think.”

Entities

DonpersonBugpersonEvil DeadgameX-MengameJohn WickgameStern PinballcompanySpooky Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: X-Men community sentiment remains negative despite .90 code update; players threatening to 'dump this game' and fear secondary market flooding like Foo Fighters.

    high · Don: 'I think people are still holding on, like, we've got to get some serious 1.0-style code here, or we're all going to be dumping this game. And then we're going to see it do what Foo Fighters did and just flood the market, tank the price.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Don producing community alternatives to Stern accessories: custom pencil shooter rod for John Wick (free offer), highlighting Cap Custom European armor as superior third-party option.

    high · Don offering pencil shooter rod free via email; strong endorsement of Cap Custom laser-cut armor at €140 vs Stern's $280, describing Cap Custom products as superior value

  • ?

    competitive_signal: X-Men players defaulting to same strategy loop each session (Wolverine → Juggernaut → Future), indicating limited mode diversity/appeal despite layout quality.

    high · Don: 'every time i play this game i'm essentially playing it the same way do wolverine uh do juggernaut, get to the future, get out of the future, and then kind of see what's next.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: John Wick LE topper aesthetic mismatch: neon noir design clashes with cathedral stained glass LE artwork; suggests two-topper solution (gold for LE, green for others) would have been better.

    high · Don: 'This looks like neon noir city on top of a cathedral with a stained glass window...on the LE...I think it's just going to kind of clash.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Rumored Indiana Jones game reportedly blocked from using Harrison Ford soundalikes, requiring Sallah character callouts instead; suggests IP licensing constraints on dialogue/voice work.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.118

0:00
Uh-huh. Okay. Keep going, Bug. Red jackpots. Slow down, I'm taking notes. Evil Dead livestream. Brand new code. Now I understand. Alright, Bug. Hang on, Bug. I gotta record the podcast now, Bug. to hide. I'm going to simulcast you, but I'm just going to have to mute your mic here because we're going to hit the drop. Are we ready? Alright, thank you. I love that jacket, by the way. Man, that's fire.
0:36
Don's Pinball Podcast, episode 175, coming at you pre-Trippy. Trippy? Trippy, yeah. Exactly. It's a pre-Trippy episode because I'm going on a trip to the Twippies starting tomorrow. It's Thursday night. I was sitting here watching Bug Screamin' Stream. I just got the Evil Dead update. Got it loaded up in there. I'm playing it simultaneously as he's explaining the new modes and things in there. So fantastic. Fixed one of my concerns, and that was with the skill shot and the cycling of the lights. Now it's much faster. It actually requires skill. Speeds up the game. Thank you, guys. I love this. And this is just like the first of what is to be many code updates for Evil Dead, which compared to some recent releases from, I don't know, Stern Pinball, It seems code complete already Like every one of the eight modes in there is complete They're interesting You know, we got I got to go play the X-Men code That's where I'm getting to here But like if you take the juggernaut mode from X-Men That we've been playing since launch You know, you start it You hit four shots It's done Now there is some semblance of some gameplay to it You know, hit a couple of shots Then you got to get the X-Jet To remove his helmet Then you can go back and finish it So I like that So we'll get into that in a bit here But I've been playing a lot of Evil Dead Probably too much I'm 140 games in on my Evil Dead number 10 that I have here Thank you Spooky Pinball for hooking a brother up Drove in, picked it up Drug it back here, opened it up You guys watched the unboxing, fantastic It's been operating generally without issue Had a little power supply problem And that's got swapped out Totally playing fine now Complete non-issue The topper, once I gave it a haircut is doing fine, and they've added the dawn fix to prevent that from happening again for future down-the-road designs. So we're having fun in the laboratory here, playing a ton of Evil Dead, and it feels code complete compared to what we've been playing. When you play one of these Evil Dead modes, which I hope you do, probably TPF will be the next time that the majority of the pinball-going folk will get the hands on this thing. You pick Evil Dead 1 or 2, and then there's four modes for each one. and each mode has uh you know to clear it you have to do solve whatever it is that you're in generally hit a couple ramps or hit some stand-up targets and go to the cellar or you know follow the green shots through the woods or something then that mode is qualified and you go into the second part of the mode which is like let's cram up some jackpots let's hit these red shots let's do whatever it's asking us to do and see how far we can get in that mode in that little bonus period. So it's like there's stages to it. Some of the modes, and I've exclusively been playing the Evil Dead 1 modes. I haven't even really gotten into the Evil 2 Dead 1s, Evil Dead 2 ones yet. I really want to finish out and really understand the first ones, and then it's going to be like I got a whole new game when I play the other half of the code. But it's fun. One of the modes, you know, if you hit the ramps and do the successful completion of the mode, it then starts a two-ball multi-ball for, like, more added fun. It's like there's layers that they built in here, and I like what they did with that, and I like that Bug's even talking about adding even more to those codes, or to those modes. Yeah, so maybe after the Trippy we can see what else they got. Contrast that to where X-Men was at launch. Now, X-Men was a game, I owned two of them for reasons. I had an LE and a premium and loved the layout, man. You know, I didn't purchase these until I played the game. I weaseled my way into the Stern factory and was able to get into the streaming lounge and I played with this guy, Jack danger something or other over there as he's walking me through the game talking to the waist and the coder and it was just enraptured with like the cool shots and the fun layout and the fact that the sentinel hand would deform that ramp i thought that was super cool and then played the game and you know of course it's brand new we're getting into it super fun shots great layout and then uh you know learning the modes kind of getting through them then i'm settling into like okay every time i play this game i'm essentially playing it the same way do wolverine uh do juggernaut, get to the future, get out of the future, and then kind of see what's next. So where's the code update? And then where's the code update? Okay, give me something else I can do. I'm kind of playing the game the same exact way every single time. I know I'm spoiled. It's in my home. I've got two of them. Between the two, I put three to four hundred games across them in a couple of weeks. Game is fun, but we've been waiting. We've been waiting for essentially yesterday. I think I was live streaming online. Shout out to Perfect Storm Gaming Stream on YouTube Go check that out I was hanging out with those guys for about two hours yesterday Whilst that was going on We got the .9 code update So we took this thing from .89 to .9 Fantastic You know, exactly what we want Bring us some new freaking code So I was over at District 1 Because I've sold both of my X-Men Sold and traded And so I was able to cram myself in there And play some of this new code And I played, of course I had to start with the juggernaut mode That everyone's been talking about this is not a revolutionary code update but it's something and for that we are thankful and from what I'm hearing this is kind of where the target was for the code at the time of launch remember this game got moved up in the schedule rumored to be because of the Indiana Jones game from John Borg getting cancelled, for what reasons I don't know, I know there's a story there I want to hear it at some point George Gomez if you're out there listening let John Borg regale us with what exactly happened with Indiana Jones because I think particularly a Raiders of the Lost Ark standalone machine would be phenomenal given today's technology and platforms and what we have. And I don't know if somebody heard that and is just trying to hurt my feelings, but they told me that that was actually the plan. And then what happened? Couldn't get Harrison Ford, couldn't get the call-outs, it would have been sound-alikes. You would have had Sala as the call-out guy taking you around, whatever. I don't know. I still think the theme would work, but maybe it was a case that we didn't get enough or maybe the layout just wasn't coming together or maybe it was just another iteration of Guardians of the Galaxy Monsters and Metallica thrown together with Indiana Jones and some Shakara stones, that's from Temple of Doom but yeah, you feel me, you feel me for whatever reason it failed and then John Wick and X-Men had to kind of leap forward and get maybe releases earlier than they were otherwise planning all speculation but I mean, it seems like it makes sense to me. Well now at least there's some more interesting code. I didn't notice much else through my playthroughs. I played through a couple of the other modes. I do the hard ones. I usually start with Juggernaut, because come on. It gets me in the game, gets one mode done. And then I do the Magneto one, or the Colossus one. It's fun for me, just because I like chasing around that green shot that moves around the field. I was playing really well. I will say that the machine that I played on location at District 1 was plunging phenomenally well, better than any of my games ever did. So it must have the shooter lane fix in there or it's just a rare unicorn uh but it was fun not having problems with at least the jank of shooter lane issues um i will still say it's frustrating with some of the ball jank that you have around the sentinel head particularly on that right shot i don't know if that's the downtown or the subway or the midtown i know they all have names um but particularly shooting to the right of that sentinel head really just kind of gets you a bunch of jank as it enters that shooter lane to come around to the wire form ramp. And it's like, I feel like I get, if I get 90% up the way, up that ramp, can you at least award me that shot? Because, you know, it takes up like, it feels like 20 seconds when the ball goes up there, rattles around, doesn't make it, pulls back slowly, and finally dribbles its way back. It's like, I've lost a ton of time with my mode. And I feel like I shouldn't have had that shot robbed from me. Yeah, whatever. The shot to the left of the Sentinel, still a little janky, but it's more consistent as far as being able to hit it, you know, finding the spot on the flipper, so I'm not mad at that. But, you know, it kind of brought back those bad feelings of the jankiness around that Sentinel head. I don't know why it had to be that way. Couldn't Metal Ramp have gone back there? I don't know. I'm not a professional pinball designer. I just make them at home for myself and my friends. So I didn't explore much of the future. I only played a couple of games on it, but I did hear some new call-outs. I saw some new graphics, and I like that there's at least something new in X-Men, so it's a win. It's a win for me. Thank you for coming out with some code. It didn't repair the game in everybody's eyes. I think people are still holding on, like, we've got to get some serious 1.0-style code here, or we're all going to be dumping this game. And then we're going to see it do what Foo Fighters did and just flood the market, tank the price, and then these things are going to be like quick pickings. I think the game's going to get there eventually. You know, looking back at some releases, you know, Venom, Mandalorian, Star Wars, Munsters, Stranger Things. I can't see Bond. I can't see anything that really was ever truly ignored. It just feels like that. It feels like that with John Wick up until today. Did you guys see what happened today? Well, we're going to jump ahead of D&D and just go straight to John Wick. We got the accessories, y'all. Accessories for John Wick. I don't even have my air horn queued up, but this is air horn worthy.

Don @ ~shooter rod alternatives — Don offering free custom pencil shooter rod as alternative to Stern's blood oath token, emphasizing community alternatives

Jack Danger
person
John Borgperson
George Gomezperson
District 1company
Perfect Storm Gamingorganization
Cap Customcompany
Penn Stadiumcompany
Metallicagame
Foo Fightersgame
Stranger Thingsgame
Jawsgame
Star Warsgame
Pinball at the Beach (TPF)event
Indiana Jones / Raiders of the Lost Arkgame

low · Don: 'Couldn't get Harrison Ford, couldn't get the call-outs, it would have been sound-alikes. You would have had Sala as the call-out guy'

  • $

    market_signal: Secondary market risk for X-Men flagged by Don as comparable to Foo Fighters depreciation trajectory; code quality seen as critical to preventing market saturation.

    medium · Don: 'I think the game's going to get there eventually. You know, looking back at some releases...Venom, Mandalorian, Star Wars, Munsters, Stranger Things...I can't see anything that really was ever truly ignored...it just feels like that with John Wick up until today.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: John Borg (designer of cancelled Indiana Jones) timeline unclear; rumored game acceleration may have displaced his project to expedite X-Men and John Wick launches.

    low · Don: 'rumored to be because of the Indiana Jones game from John Borg getting cancelled, for what reasons I don't know, I know there's a story there I want to hear it at some point'

  • $

    market_signal: John Wick accessory pricing perceived as unsustainable: $1,400 topper (+40% vs Metallica), $280 armor (proprietary variant of standard Premium), $600 expression lights. Don suggests owners may dump machines rather than complete LE package.

    high · Don: 'I think I would just be frustrated. I think I would just get out. I think I would just sell the game and not even go down that road.' Multiple price comparisons to Metallica ($1,000), Foo Fighters ($2,000), Stranger Things ($649).

  • ?

    product_strategy: X-Men .90 code update includes improved Juggernaut mode with additional shot sequences (X-Jet, helmet removal) and possible plunger/shooter lane fix observed on location machine.

    high · Don: 'the machine that I played on location at District 1 was plunging phenomenally well, better than any of my games ever did. So it must have the shooter lane fix in there'

  • ?

    product_concern: X-Men experiencing persistent ball jank around sentinel head shot despite improvements to other areas; playfield ergonomics/routing issues unresolved by .90 update.

    high · Don: 'I will still say it's frustrating with some of the ball jank that you have around the sentinel head...if I get 90% up the way, up that ramp, can you at least award me that shot?'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Evil Dead code updates planned post-TPF; Bug indicating additional content coming beyond current eight modes.

    high · Don: 'this is just like the first of what is to be many code updates for Evil Dead' and 'I like that Bug's even talking about adding even more to those codes, or to those modes.'

    • 9:45
    So Topper man Let talk about all this stuff Oh gosh So I want to review these things in two ways i want to review them aesthetically on how they look what i think of them as far as a product we're going to ignore price for this first part uh the john wick topper are you honestly surprised did you see this thing okay three layers of plastic you know kind of that edge lit fluorescent green and purple stuff the same stuff you see in the play field i get the aesthetic i get the neon noir. I dig that vibe. I like that. So I don't hate the topper, and it's cool that they have the John Wick name up there, even if it's just for the haters. I love seeing the game's name everywhere. It seems to work with this one. Aesthetically, I dig it. The hourglass is interesting. It's got some motion. I showed a friend of mine today, and he's like, oh, so they took the Deadpool topper, and instead of a thumb plastic, they put in an hourglass. And I'm like, shut up, man. It's awesome. You know, but whatever. So it's okay. It's all right. It's kind of what I expect. You know, looking at the Jaws topper that we got, what else has released from Stern recently that we've seen?
    10:53
    007 topper is just some lights. Foo Fighters had some serious movement to it and some layered plastics. So this seems like, you know, if you put them all in a lineup, you could tell this came from the same company, right? There's no sculpted city in here. There's no destructible buildings. There's no car that comes out drifting across the top of the topper, you know, in something, like, epically awesome. There's no double tap, right? There's no mechanism for marbles rolling around, like we saw from Electric Playground's amazing Twilight Zone. And, you know, hopefully they use that metric again.
    11:27
    So, yeah, it looks fine. I'm sure it's going to look much better in person. I don't hate it as much as I was disappointed with the Metallica topper, all right? So as a product, I think it's all right. I think it's okay. What did you expect, honestly? Like John Wick's face with a ton of guns around it? I mean, it would have been cool.
    11:47
    John Wick jumping out of the way bullet time with his guns blazing like the side of a movie poster. Would have been awesome. But no, we're going to get this because we're not going to have guns.
    11:57
    Problem, though. Okay, this game looks really good on the premium. Because the premium is blues and purples and John Wick and neon and seems to fit. This thing seamlessly integrates with all that art, that whole aesthetic, the play field, the cabinet, everything. but how is this going to look on top of the le with that stained glass window and this doesn't look like a church steeple doesn't look like a top of a cathedral with like you know a battle going on around it and blasting gunshots and action uh this looks like neon noir city on top of a cathedral with a stained glass window and that stained glass on that back glass is the best one the best mirrored back glass i've seen from stern and care it looks amazing the cabinet it with the foil effects and the candles looks amazing on the le which most of like the diehard of us went and bought because it looks so cool you're not going to have a neon noir topper on top of it i think it's just going to kind of clash i gotta see it in person hopefully at tpf they'll have this topper there they did food fighters last year so hopefully they'll have this wick topper up there so we can see you know what we're dealing with here it looks really good on the premium and the premium probably has the my least favorite art of the three it'll look fine on the pro because the pro is dark blues and such but on the le the flagship game i just don't think it's gonna look as good maybe we could see like an iron maiden situation where there was like that egyptian topper that would match the premium artwork and then the aces high topper for everybody else i of course had the aces high topper on my pharaoh's edition of iron maiden premium because he couldn't get that other one anymore and i tried to get it from tilt topper but dude like he said he was gonna send it and he charged me and then he never sent it and then i I got an email weeks later, like, sorry, it went somewhere else, so we marked it shipped, and then they went out of business, and so I'm never going to get it. Never going to get it. But Ace and Sight topper on the Egyptian one, I think you need something special for the Cathedral limited edition version, and I don't think we're going to get it. All right, but the topper, I appreciate that it moves. I already like the aesthetic because I like it on the play field. I like green glowing plastics. Call me crazy. I'm a simple man. but yeah I think it's fine I think it's fine we'll talk about price in a minute side armor I'm going to give you a side eye if you look at that and try to justify that as a product what in the ever loving heck the powder coated armor package on the limited edition John Wick not my favorite flat matte black you know wasn't even an exotic color no sparkle in it and I get okay fine it kind of matches with everything but like I don't feel like I was really elevated by getting just black armor because black armor is what comes with everything else and you know while there was some laser cutting to the side and but was there enough to put that gold emblem on the side like i get it but i would have i would have wanted something better like you look at what we got with the limited versions of elvira uh the limited versions of venom amazing side cut laser armor with some graphics in there uh the the premium armor that came on or is coming on Dungeons and Dragons with the flame effect. It runs the whole length of the armor. That looks really cool, and it's powder-coated red, so you know it's going to stand out.
    15:07
    The premium armor that they're selling for two... We're not going to talk about price. But, okay, here's what you got. If you have a premium John Wick or a premium any of the recent releases from Stern from Jaws on, you already have this armor. What you're missing is a circular hole in the side of the armor and a sticker. Okay? And we're going to get the price, but this is, I mean, you could get a bunch of John Wick, like, launching with his fists and his nunchucks in his hands or something, man, or, like, some graphics up and down the side or something. But, no, it's literally just that wedge premium armor and a Hulk cut in it and a sticker and some paper backing, and that's what you're going to get. And we're going to get the price, and I can't wait. Shooter Rod. Let's talk about the Shooter Rod. So it's the Blood Oath token. I get it. You know, what else are you going to do? So it's the one in the game. Now it's on the shooter rod. I've seen folks, who's the shooter rod guys that are always at the pinball shows? They've had this since the game came out. They have one of these epoxied onto a stick. And, like, I go and I play with it when I go over there, and it doesn't feel good in the hand. It's not fun to have a shooter rod that is just a disc 90 degrees from, like, where your hand goes. I'm sorry. It just doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel good in that form. It doesn't feel good when it's a pocket watch. A round donut doesn't feel good. A shooter rod, to me, should be something that fits in the hand and makes you happy that you have it whenever you use it. The Stranger Things 20-sided die feels great. The glossy Stormtrooper helmet on Star Wars feels great. The white lily rose that I made for Munsters, black and white, premium version, feels really good. The interview microphone that I made, that Mean Gene used when he interviewed the wrestlers for WrestleMania feels really freaking good in your hand and makes me want to reach back and plunge. A lot of thought went into how big is this going to be in my hand? How is it going to fit? How are my fingers going to curl around it? Is it not going to feel awkward? Am I going to be able to control the plunge for skill shots? That's what I want. And with this, it's like here's a silver paper plate. Just grab it and pull it back. I don't like it. It's like I'm grabbing someone's belt buckle. I bumped into him at a honky-tonk bar. I'm sorry, buddy. I didn't mean to grab your belt buckle. I was just doing the Dougie and reaching around. I didn't mean to grab your belt buckle, sir. Like, that's what it's going to feel like. Like, I got my hand in the front of someone's pants, and I'm playing with their buckle when I'm just trying to launch a ball, you know, halfway up to get the skill shot. I don't really dig it. But what else could they have done? Now, we've done pencils, right? My buddy Sterling down down south, pinball and perfect plunge. You know, he made himself a 3D-printed bloody pencil stub to shoot with. I stole his idea and made a comically oversized pencil, like something you give for a teacher you didn't care very much about on Teacher's Day. Here you go. A big number two pencil. Just thought it was fun. Felt good in the hand, though. I'll tell you that. The barrel of the pencil had raised ridges on it, so you had some tactile feedback of where you were throwing it. I still have this. If you've got a John Wick and you want a free pencil shooter rod, email me at donspinballpodcast.gmail.com. I'll mail this thing out to you. You can throw it in there and tell me what you think. Yes, it's oversized. Yes, it's comical. Yes, it's a giant number two pencil, but it feels good in the hand, and I dare you to tell me that you don't enjoy using it. I had it on my John Wick the whole time I used it. It's on its way out to Ohio. Email jeffatmadpinball.com and see where on location he has it, and go try one. Or if you want one for free, I will send it to you. If you email me at donsbillmabagas at gmail.com, and you've got a John Wick, and you want this pencil shooter rod, I will send the damn thing to you. It's ready to go. Plug and play, and then tell me what you think. If you hate it, send it back, and you'll get your money back, which is to say nothing at all minus shipping. You have to cover that. All right. What else did we get? Shooter Rod. We got the armor, which I can't wait to talk about price here. All right. Expression lights. Okay. Price unchanged from Metallica. They're $600 now. They were $499. We'll get to that. But, yeah, you got to have them. Any game that offers expression lights, you got to put them in there. And the whole, I don't know why anybody else isn't making a trough-type light that you can put in a Stern machine and sell them for like $150 and at least have like a light show or sound sensitive or something. I know that Penn Stadium is doing something. I bought them. I hated them, and I sold them for half the cost that I got, that I paid just to get them out of the house. I didn't like them at all. I didn't like how they worked. They didn't sit flush, man. That the whole thing with this The whole reason I hate Penn Stadium is you going to remove them every time you lift the play field So the fact that they could slot into the side of the cabinet was like the whole reason I wanted to get these damn things As a competitor to what Stern's got, and I got the Neo Concert Edition X whatever's, and they still hung up on the playfield every time I raised it and lowered it. There was no way to secure them in there. I emailed the guy. He said, well, you bought them for Foo Fighters, and you have a different cabinet you're trying to put them in. And I'm like, dude, it's the same cabinet. What do you mean? some 3D printed brackets that were supposed to hold it in. They broke right away. They need to be metal. What in the world is going on? Just not a great product, and I don't think he's selling them anymore. Thank God that other people don't have to go through the ownership of these things. But why hasn't anybody else come up with a sound-sensitive lighting bar that you can just flushly put in there? There weren't even screw holes in it. How am I supposed to hold these things in? No magnets? No screw holes? What the heck, man? The only screw hole I got was me when I got screwed buying these things. so there goes my Penn Stadium sponsorship probably but man I was like I was really looking forward to these I wanted to get a set for every game they look super cool in the launch trailer and just fell flat so $600 now $100 more than they were you kind of got to have them though or just go buy an LE for $9,000 right now and you don't have to deal with it what else we got $199 for the back box speaker lights I love these now I've heard from folks that have been retrofitting these into their older Spike 2's And the advice I'm getting is Don't bother Now the new games come with all this code And everything, the coded lights It's fantastic, look great on Jaws It's cool on John Wick with the bang bang mode They look good on Star Wars What else do I have them on? Code doesn't come out with Monsters yet Or Black Knight Sword of Rage X-Men is on there So for the newer games There was a ton of code that was put in to control these lights Especially any game that already has expression lights But what I'm hearing is for the older Spike 2 games You know, your Iron Maiden, Deadpool and such Like, don't bother Because there's no code that exists for those And so they have to put that in And then through a code update, get it going And I'm hearing they're just not as impressive Light show wise, you know, like Jurassic Park Before you put them in there Maybe look around and see if anybody's got a YouTube video On what these lights are actually doing during the gameplay Because it may not be much That sonar mode during Jaws Was completely phenomenal, man, I loved it Um, and so while it does look good in star Wars and it looks good in, uh, you know, the other games that it comes with, uh, look great in Metallica. I mean, if you've got a Metallica, get those lights in there. One 99. Don't let, do it before Stern raises the prices. Um, but my God, what else did we get? Knob armor, expression lights, armor, top. Okay. All right. Let's talk about price. $1,500 for topper insanity. It's $1,500 right now for the best topper and pinball, which is the black knight sort of rage topper. if we're talking Stern here. But $1,400, man?
    22:35
    That's what Spooky will give you a Cheryl Topper for that. Speaking of Spooky, how's Bug doing? Let's play the mode, give me back my hand.
    22:44
    Oh, he's in Evil Dead 2, man. All right, I've got to watch his stream some more. All right, Bug, we'll check in with you in a bit. You play through that mode, you sexy human. I saw a photo of Bug as a female, and it's like alternate universe. It was feeling feelings, sorry. notwithstanding sexy bug aside the topper is $1400 and while I'm not surprised I am definitely not enthusiastic about this if I still had my John Wick my LE one of the best looking cabinets a stern pinball has made and I was looking at $1400 for that topper I think I would just be frustrated I think I would just get out I think I would just sell the game and not even go down that road I know people are going to do it and if you got the LE you want it complete and if you got a line of toppers like I do Like, you want the topper, too. But, man, it's just not going to look good on the LE cabinet, I don't think, man. It's frustrating. They should have had a gold version for the LE and then, like, the green version for the other two. I think that would have worked. I don't make decisions at Stern. All right, so I've got a price chart here just for a point of reference. All right, we have a couple of other toppers that have recently come out from Stern Pinball that do things that are interesting. And, like, let's just go with Metallica, right? Metallica was $1,000. And it was strictly lights. It was, you know, I don't know, 50% of the size of the top of the cabinet. I did see it in person at Pinball at the Beach. It does look cool. I do like the light shows that comes with it to get an extra mode and all that business. So I'm not going to fault anybody for that at $1,000. Ten bills, and, you know, it's your game. You do you, especially if you've got some built-in equity. If you've got an LE already, it's already trading higher than the purchase price of it. So, yeah, embellish yourself and have fun. I ain't mad at you. It was $1,000. But this John Wick, what does it have that it's offering? All right, for an extra $500, right, 50% cost increase, 150% of the purchase price of a Metallica topper at $1,000. And for $1,500, what are you getting? Layered plastics, LEDs, and the mech from Deadpool with the thumb going up and down for $1,000. How much was it to get those hourglasses done? I mean, the hourglass is 3D. The hourglass is kind of cool. I appreciate that there's some motion up there. If it was completely static for $1,500, forget it. At least there's some motion up there. But, man, I'm not liking this price for this product. It was $2,000 for the Foo Fighters topper. I think that was probably $600 too much. And I think we're still about $600 or $800 too much on this thing. If this John Wick topper came out at $649, which is what the Stranger Things topper goes for, yeah, I think that would be reasonable. $800 would be a stretch. a thousand would be a reluctant like, let me see if I can pick up an extra shift or something and just make a bad decision. But for $1,500, at this point I would just sell my John Wick, take my lumps and go get something else, man, at this point. I don't like that price at all. You know what else I don't like? I don't like the price on the armor. $280 for this thing, which is okay, if you've got a premium, you already have this armor, by the way. Go find a friend that has a hole saw cut a hole in the side of your armor and put that sticker in the paper backing there and there you go you don't have to powder coat it's got the same black wrinkle powder coat what low effort uh 149 a set i think would be reasonable that's about the same cost as the uh the armor if you just go ahead and purchase them all right so maybe 180 180 but but like 270 man how much was that licensing cost you know just to put the sticker on there and like you know you could have laser cut a cityscape in there or something look at alice's adventures in wonderland look at that side armor that's got that phrase written all the way down it now you know what i'm going to say i'm going to say cab custom where are you say cab custom three times in a mirror and frank will appear with a new purchase for you of amazing armor for 140 euros i'm not sponsored by them i just really love their product and i want to spread the word man These guys will send you laser-cut armor with black wrinkle coat for 140 euros. That will be more impressive than this. Their Jaws armor was more impressive than what Stern came out with. So, you know, they're free from the burden of licensing. They operate in this nebulous gray area, you know, whatever's whatever. But I will say, like, for, you know, dollars to donuts, for my money, I think I'd be calling Cap Custom, those guys over there. Check them out on Facebook is how you get to them. They don't have a website because they run a little bit underground. But, like, Stern, Don here, you got the premium armor blades. You already have them there. Get them laser cut with, like, some, you know, some quotes from the movie down the side. Put them in, you know, put some fluorescent green plastics behind there or something, or at least, like, reflective paper, you know, and then put some cool laser cut in that handguard area, you know, something like the King Ghidorah from the armor that came with Godzilla. That looks fine. you know and then 250 would be probably pushing it but if you're gonna do 270 give me that don't just give me a whole cut out and a sticker maybe that's all you could get from the licensor i understand the frustrations of of you know having to cater to licensor and like having great ideas and not being able to implement them because of reasons and so corporates are gonna corporate and that's what you get but but then 280 man how much was the licensing and then you gotta make money and I know it's not hard to make money and pinball's not easy but oh man I can't at this price are you selling that many of them are you going to sell them I don't think so I think if this product was $1.99 and had a little bit of extra effort put into it in the form of the CNC laser I think you'd probably sell more and even though the margin is smaller I think the revenues would have been higher correct me if I'm wrong I know you can't But, you know, if you could, let me know psychically if I'm kind of on the right thinking on this. All right, you know what I think about the shooter rod? The shooter rod is $200.
    28:40
    Expensive. Now, maybe that's movie replica, one for one size. Does it open? I don't think it does. I think they're like $99 or $109 at the pinball shows for like the literal exact same thing. There is a little bit more of a mounting plastic behind that I noticed, like little ergonomics built in there. But the Blood Elves token is just kind of big to grab. I just don't think I would like playing with this thing. Come play with my pencil, somebody. Email me, donspinballpodcastgmail.com. So $200 for this knob. All right, the Jaws knob, which is absolutely theme on point, number one. Absolutely number two fits great in the hand.
    29:18
    It's the yellow barrel from the show. $149. $149, man. And what do you get? You get a Juan John Wick token for Dear listener they are on Amazon and Timu and Sheen if you can still get them to deliver to you Wish has these things I seen them cheaper You can get the gold one if you want. Like the Middle Eastern Blood Oath token, the gold one from the film. Man, that would look good on the LE. They should have done an LE version, a silver version, or somebody get on that, man. They're $20 on Amazon. Less if you can find them, sometimes $15. I have a drawer full of them. Dude, if you need a John Wick Blood Oath token, email Don at pinsball.com. I'll hook you up with one, man. I'll make sure everybody. I got a whole drawer full of these things. I was going crazy buying them. I got, like, so many damn John Wick Blood Oath tokens, regular ones. I got the gold ones, like, you know, whatever you want. I got one signed by Elliot Eisman here somewhere. But, yeah, $200 seems, I think the word is egregious. The Avengers Egg. The Avengers Egg that lit up, $179. What else do I have here? I can't even read my own handwriting. Tweedledum. Twilight?
    30:31
    Twisted Sister? What the, hey, where the hell are my glasses? What did I write? Some other shooter rod here is $129. Two pounds? Oh, Turtles! Turtles is a whole katana! $129 is still, like, the MSRP for that. $130 for a katana long enough to, like, grab your hip when you walk by the game and, like, nudge it. man. A shooter rod that'll set off your tilt sensor for $129. And this thing's $200? Let's add it up. $200 for the shooter rod. Side armor, $280. All right. Expression lights, $600.
    31:05
    Cabinet lights, $200. So that's $2, $8, $10, $12, $1,500 or something, plus another $15 for the topper. $3,000 to dress out your game. $3,000, half the cost of a pro to get that done. That three grand, instead of buying a premium MSRP, you could have, even without a discount, took that three grand and got yourself an LE. Then all you would have to do is, well, you still need a shooter rod, because the LEs didn't come with shooter rods. Jaws did, but this one didn't. What the heck? And then you'd have to get a top or two, but then it wouldn't even match the LE. So what do you do? Throw the whole thing away. Life goes on. We saw the John Wick accessories. We're looking around. Where's Venom? Guys, Venom's going to come out, and it's going to be layered plastic, and there may be some motion in there, you know, of like a Venom tongue swirling around, and that's probably what we're going to get. It's probably going to be $8.99, and it's probably just going to be like a mea culpa to the community at that point. I don't think they're going to come out with no $2,000 Venom topper.
    32:03
    $2,000 will almost get you a Venom, probably two Venom Pros in new unboxers to get them out of a warehouse somewhere. My goodness, man, what is going on in pinball? What a fun day! We got new products released. I spent some time on D&D today. I was at District 1, hanging out with my homie. and yeah, the game is fun I'm going to check back in with Bug yes you are sir this code is 10 years old and it was $40 try again, haters alright, if you don't listen to Bug scream and stream you definitely need to, especially like the last half hour to 40 minutes when he's like done playing pinball and just like talking nonsense, whatever the community wants to talk about and you can like live stream chat him in there, it's super fun man he's going to be so mad at me when I poached him for this podcast Thank you for being an awesome co-host. And this jacket he is wearing is phenomenal. He needs to give it back to my grandma, though. She's going to want that back. But it looks like it's at least warm. So I was over at District 1, Stevens Point, Wisconsin, and they've got a D&D Pro on site. Now, I still am without a D&D. I don't have the Worf Dragon, and I really, really, really want it. So I'm going to play on the location. They got a code update. Now, I haven't played enough D&D to even be able to appreciate what code update they did get, But I like this. I think D&D came out at the right time. I think John Wick was rushed. I think X-Men was rushed to fill in the void from Indiana Jones. I think we're caught back up now because D&D came out. The LEs still haven't completely left the factory, yet we have that first code update, some bug corrections and some other things. That's the cadence that we're kind of used to, and so it looks like we're going to see that going forward. So I'm not going to judge Wick or X-Men too harshly, although I would have liked some more communication on what exactly is going on and what to expect. But yeah, yeah, that's all right. Isn't it weird we got an X-Men code update, but we got the WIC accessories? I think if X-Men was still cooking and they dropped WIC accessories and WIC code and new WIC mode with a topper, I think it put everybody in a little bit more of a favorable John Wick kind of mood. But that's not what we got. We'll see what has to come from the future. Dungeons & Dragons, really like this game. I like this game from the jump. I think the shots feel better than the shots do on something like Stranger Things. I think the dragon is fun. I think being able to implement the dragon into modes will be interesting. But what I like doing is just getting a set of enemies up there on the screen. John Wick, are you listening? Getting a set of enemies on the screen and then hitting shots and watching me deplete their energy as a progress bar. And when I have all four of my party with me, we're doing bigger attacks. and as time goes on and the enemy's attacking and I'm losing allies, we're able to attack with less and less ferocity. I like that. I like that there's a timed element to it. Attack this guy, but let's be skillful with it. So it's kind of like a push and pull, a risk and a reward. I dig that, man. I dig that at this game. And John Wick, that's exactly what's missing. You're in a mode with John Wick you have no idea when it ends. Does it end? Does it time out? Who knows? Does Pepperidge Farm remember? Is there a progress bar on the screen I can see? none of that man can fix this freaking code what's going on uh but dnd doesn't suffer from that problem it's got dwight it's got elizabeth it's got brian eddy's design it's got lieutenant wharf right there in dragon form like i love this man the klingon dragon is right there i would love to see and i'll put this out to the ether as a little tangent i would like to see star trek the next generation reimagined with modern code modern technology modern pinball machine not a remaster of the original game that came out, but just a brand new take on Star Trek The Next Generation, digging into all the lore, all the Borg, all the Locutus, right? All the space babies that Deanna Troi had. I'm re-watching the series again now, and I think that would be a hit, man, more than some other lesser-known films from the 80s would be. Guys, the trip's coming up. The Twippy Trip. The Twizzler? What did I call it when I started this show? Oh, my God. I'm going tomorrow to Chicago, grabbing a flight down to Houston. I'll be hanging out there in the evening with the This Week in Pinball crew somewhere. There's some kind of barcade or something. We're going to be hanging out tomorrow night. And then, barrels of fun, Saturday morning, we're going to be on site, NDAs in hand, to go see some new product from the people down there. Now, you know, integrity part of me wants to say F the NDA. I just want to say everything that I see. but then the pinball fan part of me says if I sign this I get to play something early yes please I will do that so that's what I'm going to be doing so that's going to mean that Saturday after I play this thing or try on this thing maybe it's a pair of sweatpants maybe it's a velour tracksuit I don't know what's going on but whatever it is I'm not going to be able to say this is what it is, this is how it plays this is what it costs, this is when it comes out this is what's innovative, this is what's rehashed I'm not going to be able to speak to that I'm going to try to do what I've done with some other NDAs that I've signed. And while I cannot give specifics on theme, title, or any of that, I can give general impressions on, am I excited about this? Do I want to play this again? I'm currently under the same restrictions with Atomic Playland. No, American Pinball. I believe they still exist in some form there. And I was allowed to say what my impressions were. And I'm honestly excited to see their product come out. and I like to see other people play it and then give me feedback like, do you think it's as cool as I think it is? I think it's really fun. I want to play it again. I want people to see it. I want to talk about it. I can't wait to talk about it. I hope I can do the same sort of impressions with my Barrels of Fun visit where I can say I can't tell you what it is, when it is, how big it is, but I can tell you it's exciting. Or I can tell you, you know what, you've already played this. Let it go, Elsa. Let it go.
    37:55
    So I would like to give impressions if I can. and you'll know. So I can either go ahead and do that or I can say you know what, I can't comment anything now but let's wait and see. And so you'll know as soon as I see whatever. Patreon people will be updated of course first and I hope those Patreon folks are enjoying being in the club and getting to hear those things before they enter into regular rotation out here. I'm going to jump back on Evil Dead. Let's check in with Bug one more time. Bug, how you doing? Well, you can shoot into the cellar during that time, but it's not going to do anything. It's not going to immediately put you in the lower or anything like that. We know.
    38:33
    So talking to the guys, I have been able to hear a little bit about some concepts for the future for Evil Dead. Very excited about what's going on. This game is doing awesome. It's surviving on location, guys. Game's fun, man. I'm going to go jump into this new code and play it. You guys be good to yourself and others. Have I done my outro music in a while?
    38:54
    Don's Pinball Podcast at gmail.com is how you get at me. Patreon patreon.com backslash Don Pizzol podcast, how you get in to get stuff early. Giveaways, we've got to give away a Translight. Let me go down on this Twippy trip and see what kind of swag I can come back with to spice up the giveaway for this month. John Wick accessories are out there, man. If you're married to this theme and married to this game, deck her out, man. Make her look like a Hollywood princess that she is. Be back when there's more muck to rake. Later.