Drinks with Jack* (Featuring Rebecca Hinsdale and Jody Dankberg) - Ep 7 Brian Eddy & Dwight Sullivan

Stern Pinball·video·9m 3s·analyzed·Nov 4, 2022

Analysis

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TL;DR

Brian Eddy & Dwight Sullivan discuss Mandalorian design process, tech evolution, and upcoming best-shooting game.

Summary

Brian Eddy and Dwight Sullivan discuss their collaborative design process on The Mandalorian pinball, including the development of its innovative hologram topper and how they approach game design with broad structural planning followed by iterative refinement. They reflect on returning to pinball after extended absences in other gaming sectors, the impact of LED technology and internet feedback on modern design, and their philosophy around signature design elements like flow, toys, and modern tech integration.

Key Claims

The Mandalorian topper hologram was designed to recreate the Razor Crest cockpit from the game, with Disney requiring authenticity including specific control panel details
high confidence · Brian Eddy and Dwight Sullivan discussing topper development; Disney's involvement explicitly mentioned
Dwight Sullivan worked in pinball for ~20 years before leaving to work at Williams (slot machines), then returned to Stern after George Gomez recruited him
high confidence · Dwight Sullivan direct quote about his career trajectory
Brian Eddy worked in pinball for ~10 years in the 1990s, then spent 20 years away working on video games (consoles, Facebook, mobile) before returning for Stranger Things
high confidence · Brian Eddy direct quote about his career path
LED lighting is cited as the biggest technology shift since they left pinball, making older incandescent games look 'like they had jaundice'
high confidence · Dwight Sullivan comparing Star Trek LE (LED) to Star Trek: The Next Generation (incandescent)
The design process at Stern now relies on global internet feedback for refinement and rule updates, fundamentally different from the pre-internet era when only internal company playtesters provided input
high confidence · Conversation about internet feedback's blessing/curse nature and ability to update games post-release
Brian Eddy and Dwight Sullivan have a collaborative design process where they discuss broad structure early (missions, multiballs, encounters), iterate extensively, and sometimes override each other's ideas
high confidence · Conversation about workflow: 'he throws them out the window and then does whatever he wants'
Jack Danger claims he has seen what Eddy and Sullivan are working on and describes it as 'the best shooting game you've ever made since you've been back at Stern'
high confidence · Jack Danger's direct statement near end of interview; both designers express agreement

Notable Quotes

“We really kind of set out right from the beginning. Both Dwight and I said we wanted to make the best, most incredible topper that Stern has ever made.”
Brian Eddy @ Early section — Establishes design ambition and collaborative intent for Mandalorian topper
“They gave me a test and stuff. And then they said, 'You're never going to be a designer.' And then just after that, George comes and says, 'Dwight, we want you back at Stern.' And I said, 'Yes, please'”
Dwight Sullivan @ Career return section — Reveals Sullivan's recruitment back to Stern by George Gomez and his departure from Williams
“20 years, I never stopped thinking about pinball, right? So I had tons of ideas just piling up. And the chance to come back to it was amazing for me.”
Brian Eddy @ Return to pinball section — Shows sustained passion for pinball design despite 20-year hiatus from the industry
“The LED lights is the biggest change. So, um, Tanya Klyce owned a Star Trek LE, and he loaned it to me, and I put it in my basement next to my Star Trek: The Next Generation. And the Star Trek: The Next Generation looked like it had jaundice, right?”
Dwight Sullivan @ Technology changes section — Illustrates dramatic visual improvement of LED technology over incandescent lighting in pinball
“I come through the forums, and I, and every once in a while there's a nugget of gold there. There's like, you know, somebody will say, 'This sucks, and this is why,' and I'll go, 'He's right!'”
Jack Danger @ Internet feedback section — Demonstrates designers' engagement with online community feedback and willingness to incorporate critical insights
“We still aim at what we think is going to be the absolute best game ever on day one, right? And then we're wrong. And then we think, 'Not too wrong,' right?”
Dwight Sullivan @ Design philosophy section — Reveals iterative approach and acceptance of imperfection given ability to update post-release
“Generally, I just do whatever Dwight wants, in that sense. Is that how this works? Right, whatever Dwight wants, Dwight gets?”

Entities

Brian Eddyperson Dwight Sullivanperson The Mandaloriangame Jack Dangerperson George GomezpersonStern PinballcompanyDisneycompany

Signals

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community_signal: Designers actively monitor internet forums and community feedback, incorporating useful criticism and praise into game refinements post-release; internet feedback described as both blessing and curse
high · Jack Danger & Dwight Sullivan discussion of forum monitoring and rule updates based on community input
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design_philosophy: Modern pinball design process involves Disney-level IP authenticity requirements; The Mandalorian topper required Disney approval of specific technical details (cockpit controls, panel design)
high · Brian Eddy: 'And working with Disney too, right? They wanted to make sure it was authentic, and it is. If you look at the real cockpit, the number controls on each side and the panels and what they look like, they were very particular.'
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design_philosophy: Brian Eddy emphasizes flow and toys (unique interactive elements) as signature design priorities; values creating something new and different leveraging modern technology
high · Brian Eddy: 'I would say for me, two things I like are flow in a game and toys—something unique, something that you haven't seen before'
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personnel_signal: George Gomez played direct role in recruiting Dwight Sullivan back to Stern Pinball after Sullivan's departure to Williams; demonstrates Gomez's authority in talent acquisition
high · Dwight Sullivan: 'And then just after that, George comes and says, Dwight, we want you back at Stern.'
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announcement: Jack Danger references an unreleased shooting game in development by Brian Eddy and Dwight Sullivan, describing it as 'the best shooting game you've ever made since you've been back at Stern'

Topics

Game Design Process & PhilosophyprimaryThe Mandalorian Pinball DevelopmentprimaryTechnology Evolution in Pinball (LED, Projectors, UV)primaryCareer Trajectories & Return to PinballprimaryInternet Feedback & Community Input on DesignprimaryCollaborative Design MethodologysecondarySignature Design Elements (Flow, Toys, Modern Tech)secondaryUpcoming Unreleased Gamessecondary

Sentiment

positive(0.85)— Enthusiastic discussion of game design, collaborative pride in work, positive reflection on technology advancement and community engagement. Some self-deprecating humor about design failures during iteration (sucked, threw it out), but framed constructively. No criticism or conflict detected; warm interpersonal dynamic between speakers.

Transcript

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our friend Jack doesn't feel well no he's not feeling very good so his jacket and I'm Jack and we're going to talk to some really cool people Brian Eddy and Dwight Sullivan so let's bring them up right now come on guys oh so I've worked with you guys for a long time and I know you guys begrudgingly work with me but we have a lot of fun and we've made some really cool games together the last thing that you guys worked together on was the Mandalorian and you made a really cool topper and uh I just want you guys to tell tell us a little bit about how that topper came about we really kind of set out right from the beginning both Dwight and I said we wanted to make the best most incredible topper that Stern has ever made and kind of going back and forth trying to find elements within Mandalorian that were different or cool than what's on the game and the Hologram was just something that's been part of Star Wars it was part of the razor Crest in the the game and we thought that would be really cool if we could recreate that somehow on top of the game it looks like the cockpit I mean when it lights I think what's neat about it is the Hologram is really cool and it reminds you of the classic Star Wars blue Holograms right but what I thought was really neat and when I saw it in person is the lighting effects that happen in the cockpit we weren't sure if we could actually make it look like the cockpit either because it's a small space it has to fit on top uh so we went through a number of iterations of just trying to get that feel and working with Disney too right they wanted to make sure it was authentic and it is if you look at the real cockpit the number controls on each side and the panels and what they look like they were very particular but but uh but it looks great and I think it's been received very well so congratulations guys one of the coolest Toppers out there uh tell us a little bit more about Mandalorian and what made that such a cool thing to work on and what that was like to work on a big Star Wars property that wasn't just classic it was current current we are so excited to do it to be part of it that you know we jumped on and signed up to to get it done to me it's like it's part of the Star Wars lore but it's I think the First new series that really took off and really resonated with fans and to be part of that just the first season pulled you in so wow yeah so we right we started mapping out you know well this episode is going to be a mission and this episode is going to be part of a multiball and this could be a wizard mode and I wonder what the second season is going to bring and we gotta we had to leave room for the second season it was fun because it was like a space Western so there was cool Adventures to go on and stuff like that when you approach a game like this you know what what's your process like do you set up like the broad brush Strokes is it trial and error is it do you have an idea of how you want the whole thing to be and then you just slowly build towards that even before we have a play field that we're work you know we're kicking around we're deciding with a what the bone structure is going to be what the overall flow of the game is going to be we decide you know like early on we decided there'll be missions there'll be multiballs there'll be encounters stuff like that we didn't know what they were called sometimes the names changed and then we start putting stuff in and we start figuring and then we start iterating right so you you make something you put it in and you play it and you go oh wow that sucked so then you throw it out and you put something else there and whose idea was it to have this sort of the mini play upper playfields elements yeah I guess that was mine generally I just do whatever Dwight wants in that sense is that how this works right whatever Dwight wants Dwight gets yeah pretty much Brian and I work really well together um um we we talk about everything like each of us come with with cool ideas I try to help him with you know with layout and and toys and he throws the window and then does whatever he wants and then and he comes up with you know rule ideas and you know and I throw them out the window and do whatever I want it works really well right both of you are away for pinball for a little bit what what was the inspiration that brought you both back to pinball you guys recently came back you know yeah so I I worked in pinball for 20 years you know almost and then I went back to Psy games you know I went back to Williams and worked for made slot machines I asked them to be a designer and they and they they let me audition to be a designer they gave me a test and stuff and then they said you're never going to be designer and then just after that George comes and says Dwight we want you back at Stern and I said yes please because you are a great rule designer you're one of the greatest rule designers of all time I failed to communicate that to them I don't think that it's their fault Brian what was it that brought you back yeah my path was a little bit different um I was in pinball for about 10 years as people know in the 90s and pinball as most people know kind of had a bit of a downturn there for a while so I went off and did all sorts of other things a bunch of video games on the consoles and Facebook games mobile games and then pinball started having this resurgence so when I had the opportunity for it to come back to it it's 20 years since I had done my last pin before I did stranger things so it was I couldn't pass that up what was it like to come back did it feel like there was a lot of pressure did you feel did you have a bunch of ideas in your brain that you you know hey I have 12 things that I wanted to work on it was it was awesome to come back I mean 20 years I never stopped thinking about pinball right so I had tons of ideas just piling up and the chance to come back to it was amazing for me yeah um it was like I never left was there any technology shifts since when you left when you came back that were much different that you had to deal with the LED lights is the biggest change so um Tanyo Klyce owned a Star Trek Le and he loaned it to me and I put it in my basement next to my Star Trek next Generation and the Star Trek next Generation looked like it had jaundice right it was all yellow and dark another huge change is is the way is the internet how much do you listen to the internet how because because that's it quite a bit I feel like it's a blessing and a curse you know you hear all the great things but then you hear all of the criticism from people I come through the forums and I and every once in a while there's a nugget of gold there there's like you know somebody will say this sucks and this is why and I'll go he's right yeah and and or this is great and I'll be like cool he found that or he thought that was great and I did too and you've changed man though a few times and yeah rules just to adapt to that and yeah I think it's great and like we can't think of absolutely everything so do you think that the design process is different because of the fact that you know that you're able to update and and adapt to the game as it as it sort of Ages it gets more refined I think than it used to right we relied upon our skills and the people within the company playing the game and giving us feedback now we have the whole world we still like so we still aim at what we think is going to be the absolute best game ever on day one right and then we're wrong and and then we think not too wrong right no right but then we fix it and we you know yeah we learn from it do you guys have like a favorite aspects of Designing a game like sort of a signature item that you put in in each game I would say for me two things I like are flow in a game and toys something unique something that you haven't seen before something you can interact with so those are the two things I try to pull from whatever license we have and out some some major toys in a lot of your games do you have a favorite toy I have a favorite Brian you do what's your favorite the projector I think is one of the coolest toys ever invented in pinball yeah yeah absolutely and and that and then with the mapping the projector is super awesome and then also the uh the UV oh my God yeah it's icing yeah that game had a couple neat like modern technology advances how did you take advantage of those Brian yeah I think it's just trying to do something new and different right that you haven't seen before and since there's more technology than there was back in the 90s we can just do more that was a fun license I think maybe we'll maybe get to do more with that in the future what do you guys think yeah I hope so yeah I think so too is there something you're working on or something you guys might work together in the future is that something we'll see in the future just look forward for more games for us yeah I think we're excited about it yeah yeah I I can tell you I have seen what you guys are working on and I would say it's since you've been at Stern I've told you this before it's the best shooting game you've ever made since you've been back at Stern I would agree yeah and it's it's really neat can't wait for everybody to see it and um thanks for joining us this has been drinks with Jack this is Jack I'm Jack and we've been brought to you by Logan Arcade and Goose Island beer all right thanks everyone we walking