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Ep 107: Pulp Fiction with Butch Peel

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·59m 29s·analyzed·Apr 12, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Butch Peel reveals Pulp Fiction development details, team dynamics, and CGC's production strategy post-TPF.

Summary

Butch Peel from Chicago Gaming Company discusses the development and production of Pulp Fiction pinball in depth, covering the collaborative partnership with Play Mechanics, Quentin Tarantino's creative direction, the topper design, David Thiel's role as sound designer, production sequencing, profanity content handling, and CGC's future plans beyond remakes. Strong post-Texas Pinball Festival reception is highlighted.

Key Claims

  • Pulp Fiction is in the top three of everyone's choices at Texas Pinball Festival

    high confidence · Josh Roop reporting feedback from TPF attendees

  • Limited Edition Pulp Fiction units sold out quickly at Texas Pinball Festival

    high confidence · Butch Peel discussing availability; Flippin' Out Pinball inventory notes

  • Quentin Tarantino's initial creative input was directional (rejecting modernized design) rather than granular (moving targets, changing mechanisms)

    high confidence · Butch Peel clarifying misconceptions about Tarantino's role in design process

  • Mark Ritchie originally designed Pulp Fiction as a wide-body with gun-handle ball shooter, LCD screen, and complex toy features before Tarantino redirected toward 1970s-80s aesthetic

    high confidence · Butch Peel describing initial concept presentation shown at Texas Pinball Festival

  • Chicago Gaming Company and Play Mechanics have a collaborative partnership with blurred responsibility lines rather than strict division of labor

    high confidence · Butch Peel explaining production/design breakdown

  • David Thiel transitioned from Deep Root Pinball to serve as sound designer for Pulp Fiction after Butch Peel facilitated negotiations

    high confidence · Butch Peel recounting recruitment story from 2020

  • Pulp Fiction contains 265 F-words and 431 total curse words across 2 hours 34 minutes of film

    high confidence · Josh Roop citing research on Pulp Fiction profanity density

  • Chicago Gaming Company will produce coin-op editions first, followed by Safe Cracker editions, then Limited Editions, with additional coin-ops at the end

    high confidence · Butch Peel describing planned production sequencing

Notable Quotes

  • “When people are able to play and hear the game, it's going to be that much better.”

    Butch Peel @ early segment — Explains the impact of audio/auditory experience on player engagement and feedback collection

  • “Passion breaks through barriers. Passion doesn't take no for an answer. Passion does whatever it takes to make it work.”

    Butch Peel @ mid segment — Articulates team philosophy and development approach; references Atari founding principle

  • “Chicago Gaming Company does toppers the best.”

    Josh Roop @ topper discussion — Community recognition of CGC's topper design competitive advantage

  • “Pulp Fiction is Quentin Tarantino's baby, period. Miramax is a rubber stamp kind of sign off on the thing, but he has veto rights on virtually everything.”

    Butch Peel @ licensing discussion — Clarifies IP control structure and Tarantino's gatekeeping role

  • “He couldn't have put it on table any more than they could have on that concept, right? But when he saw it, he knew it.”

    Butch Peel @ design feedback section — Explains intuitive creative approval process between designer and licensor

  • “There's no stovepipes there where you stay in your lane and, you know, no one was ever told to do any of that.”

    Butch Peel @ partnership structure discussion — Describes flat, collaborative organizational culture during development

  • “If you're going to do that theme, you've got to be able to add that. You don't want to abandon a lot of the things that made Pulp Fiction what it is.”

    Butch Peel @ profanity discussion — Articulates design philosophy balancing theme authenticity with content options

Entities

Butch PeelpersonJosh RooppersonMatt Scott LarsonpersonMark RitchiepersonDavid ThielpersonQuentin TarantinopersonGeorge PetropersonDougpersonZach Minneyperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Pulp Fiction received top-3 community ranking at Texas Pinball Festival with strong player engagement; Limited Edition units sold out quickly

    high · Josh Roop: 'It's easily in the top three of everyone's choices I've heard'; Butch Peel on LE sellout: 'Those things went like hotcakes'

  • ?

    code_update: David Thiel created dual audio track system with bleeps and unbleeped versions of 265+ F-words and 431 total curse words, togglable at runtime with game reset

    high · Butch Peel detailed profanity toggle implementation; Josh Roop cited film curse word count (265 F-words, 431 total in 2h 34m runtime)

  • ?

    design_innovation: Elaborate topper with RGB LEDs choreographed to audio and mode-specific sequences, particularly the 'Overdose' final mode featuring heartbeat light patterns synchronized with dialogue and sound effects

    high · Butch Peel describing George Petro's topper programming: 'lights going in and out and the colors changing' with 'heartbeats and the lights going in and out'; Josh Roop calling CGC's toppers 'the best'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Chicago Gaming Company planned phased production: coin-op editions first (with standard coin door), followed by Safe Cracker run, then Limited Editions, with final coin-op batch

    high · Butch Peel: 'we're going to do it as quickly as we can... coin-op games out there first... then Safe Crackers... then Limited Editions... then more Safe Crackers and coin ops at the end'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Quentin Tarantino holds creative veto authority over all Pulp Fiction machine elements; approval process was aesthetic/directional (rejecting modernization) rather than granular mechanical input

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.178

0:00
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. It is episode 107. With me, my co-pilot, as always, Scott Larson. And I am Josh Roop. And this week, we have a very special guest on. But Scott, before we get to that guest, what else do we want to talk about? Flippin' Out Pinball. If you have that itch and you want to scratch it, please call, contact Zach and Nicole Mani at Flippin' Out Pinball. They have all things pinball and even other stuff. If you want to put a golden tee in your room or, hey, if you want to do one of those raw thrills, Jurassic Park games and just drive that into your basement, they can hook you up. They've always been really good to work with. And so just reach out to them.
0:46
Go to Flippin' Out Pinball. Zach is very responsive through texting and Facebook, but there's also a contact number there for him. So just reach out. They've always been good friends of the show. And it sounds like they've got some Pulp Fiction still available. Not the LEs. Those things weren't like hotcakes. But if you're looking for that classic edition, you can definitely get your hands on them. Definitely worth your money. I heard it was amazing at Texas Pinball Festival. We wanted to get someone on to talk a little bit more about it because there's been some information floating around. And we want some solid answers, right? So we asked our good friend Butch Peel to come back on. It's been a couple years, Butch. How you been doing? I've been doing great. It's nice to be able to talk about what I've been doing.
1:29
What exactly have you been doing with CGC? It's been a couple of years since we last talked to you. Well, you know, you guys brought me on when I first joined up with CGC. And of course, all this stuff was super secret back then. But, you know, when I very first talked to them on the phone and I heard about the project that was undergoing with Mark and doing Pulp Fiction and being in a position to do the manual for Mark's comeback game, that was a really exciting prospect for me. So it's like, yeah, like when they asked Mark if he wanted to do a pinball, I'm like, yeah, I'm on board. Heck, yeah, sure, where? Let's go.
Nicole Mani
person
Jim Thorntonperson
Chicago Gaming Companycompany
Play Mechanicscompany
Deep Root Pinballcompany
The Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
Pulp Fictiongame
Texas Pinball Festivalevent
Pinball Expoevent
LoserKid Pinball Podcastorganization
Miramaxcompany
Ataricompany

high · Butch Peel: 'Pulp Fiction is Quentin Tarantino's baby, period... he has veto rights on virtually everything... every single thing in his Pulp Fiction comes right through his desk'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Deliberate balance struck between maintaining Pulp Fiction's profane character and providing content filtering for broader audience; no LCD screen compensated for by players' knowledge of famous film dialogue

    high · Butch Peel: 'You don't want to abandon a lot of the things that made Pulp Fiction what it is... people know what he said there... they recite them constantly'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: David Thiel transitioned from Deep Root Pinball to serve as primary sound designer for Pulp Fiction after Butch Peel facilitated contract release negotiations in 2020

    high · Butch Peel: 'I mentioned to him about the Pulp Fiction thing... he was very happy to contact the guys at Deep Root Pinball and see if they would take him out of his exclusive role'

  • ?

    community_signal: Team members received prototype units and branded 'Bad Mother Flipper' t-shirts; Limited Edition production will include team allocations

    high · Butch Peel: 'I got my prototype Pulp Fiction a couple of weeks before Christmas... every new game, I get one'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Four-day Texas Pinball Festival event generated extensive audit data on shot selection, mode completion rates, multiball frequency, play duration, and difficulty scaling effectiveness

    high · Butch Peel: 'you get a lot of audits on the game... a lot of feedback on what kind of shots are being hit, how many modes are being started, how long, how many people are finishing them'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Chicago Gaming Company signaling intent to develop original licensed titles beyond remake business, contingent on contract renewals with classic game IP holders

    medium · Butch Peel: 'we're still in the remake business... we'll be able to remake some of the remakes again... contractually it's a you know the contracts up for renewal'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong positive sentiment shift post-Texas Pinball Festival with Pulp Fiction ranking top-3 in community preference; initial confusion about partnership structure (76-page Pinside thread) appears resolved through public clarification

    high · Butch Peel: 'the Pulp Fiction hype thread on Pinside, 76 pages... people just seem to be really confused about how the breakdown came about'; subsequent clarification provided during interview

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Extended 'bake time' without firm deadline enabled continuous improvement cycle; Quentin Tarantino's early-stage directional feedback prevented wasted effort on rejected modernized design direction

    high · Butch Peel: 'extra bake time that we had... nobody had a schedule and said you need to do it by this date... Mark, start again. This is more what I had in mind'

    • 2:09
    So I've been working on the manual now like we have been with the game. The Chicago gaming play mechanics going back and forth, you know, and constantly trying to improve things. We've had a lot of people talk about bake time for this game, a lot of time for it to get, you know, the cream to rise up, the things that we really liked in the games to make sure that we got them tweaked up and working as well as we possibly could. So there's a lot of changes and things. I document stuff and have to go back and change things because we updated and all that. So it's been a long process to get to where we're at, But it's so exciting to be able to see people over the Texas Pinball Festival weekends play and actually enjoy what we've been working so hard on. And Marcus and those guys that play mechanics and CGC especially before I came on board many years, even before I even started. But, man, it's been a great, fun, fun thing to work on. now when you guys go to um when you go to shows and you're you're displaying the game what are you guys looking to bring back from the experience of the show well we get for one thing you've got a lot of audits on the game so the game keeps track um during the all the play during the weekend a heavy you know continuous play that you get a lot of feedback on what kind of shots are being hit, how many modes are being started, how long, how many people are finishing them, how many jackpots they collect, whether they are able to complete the modes. If anybody gets all the way through to some of these mini modes, wizard modes, and whether those are completed and how far they get and how many times that happens, how long the balls last, you know, how long play is, you know, you get a lot of, a lot of feedback for Josh, especially like on his rules and things to see how difficult things were. It seemed like people were kind of progressing in the game a little bit that seemed like everything was stonewalled or, you know, how approachable was the game? How many times can people get multi-ball? I mean, how many games, you know, it took for certain features to be revealed and, you know, a lot of, a lot of good feedback there. And we're also standing there watching people play the games too. And you're just seeing people's reactions and the people that you had two or three people playing and you'd have two of them sitting up there with their ear next to the speaker, listening to the call out so they could hear better. And, you know, just the smile and the joy of, you know, people seeing this game. I knew it when we had video out of the game and people saw that and they got really excited over that. I told Mark, I said, when people are able to play and hear the game, it's going to be that much better. And it really was. So a lot of different angles you pick up. And, of course, you see if things break, you see how things hold up. you get a lot of information when you play a game for three days straight like that, or four of them in this case. Well, and from all the feedback that I've got from Texas Pinball Festival, people are loving this game. It's easily in the top three of everyone's choices I've heard, and the theme integration that you guys went with has been astounding. Someone had mentioned the shot, which I guess is one of the final modes, and just the integration of the lights, you know that scene in pulp fiction when they're trying to revive uma thurman's character and you guys have integrated the light so it's like heartbeats and you're hearing her heartbeat oh yeah i actually was with david theo when he he met the guys that play mechanics for the first time and it was right around expo time last year he came to expo last year we went over to play mechanics he and i and then we went to cgc together and i introduced him to mark for the first time in person they met it was kind of cool but um i saw george show david theil and got to listen and see david had never seen a topper before he was still working with a game without a topper his his development game and to see him look at all of his and he doesn't have rgb leds all these kind of things in his game that that are just really cool in the final and to see how george choreographed to his sound how the lights and everything worked and you're like you say That's one of the, that is the final roll scene mode. That's the last one. You have to complete all the others to get up to it. So, you know, it is really hard to get there. But, man, it was so amazing watching the topper and the lights and everything changing and heart beating and the lights going in and out and the colors changing. And then how he choreographed that with the sounds and the coughing and things that she was doing. It is amazing. It was really amazing.
    6:46
    And to see David's face, you know, he was just crazy excited about it. Well, I want to know, too, you know, there is a lot of emphasis. This is a Chicago gaming company game with play mechanics. What are we looking percentage wise? Is it just kind of Chicago gaming's producing the game? Or have you guys had a lot of input with how the game has been built? Well, that's something I've been working my way through. The Pulp Fiction hype thread on Pinside, 76 pages, is a long way. That's a lot of posts and a lot of repetitive stuff and a lot of, you know, off topic and everything. But trying to trying to go through some of that. And I've seen that the people just seem to be really confused about how how the breakdown came about. What exactly each company is doing. And and, you know, the best way I can describe it, you know, it started as a production and distribution and marketing, you know, that the website and things like that would be on CGC's side of the fence. And then the design and development and all that would be on Play Mechanics. But they really got a lot more blurred than that during the production and development of the game. So, you know, it's really a collaborative partnership. I've had some input with Mark on, you know, some things on the game. that we we Jim Thornton and I got together and and dressed the game all up in that black anodized hardware just you know we had said well would Mark like this and and they they were kind of at CGC they were like I think we were thinking of doing that at the one time and we didn't really like it but Jim and I fixed the game up like that Mark was coming over that afternoon we changed all the hardware out and he looked at it he said I love it I love it I love it so we went with it So things like that just happened. I talked to him about rubber rings at the beginning and replacing some things. We decided to put the passive ball stop in the ball trough to protect all the plastic back panel and all of the beautiful sculptures and things on the game. So, yeah, Doug working with him hand-in-hand with George doing the programming of the topper and the mechanics of the topper. It's really blurred as to who does what. It's a team effort and we really all parts of it, you know, play mechanics help some with the marketing and things, the materials, too, and helps.
    9:13
    Outline what we wanted and wanted to put on the Web site to coincide with the teasers and everything, you know, everything just came together perfectly and fit. So it was really cool. And it's a it's a team effort. It's it's there's no there's no stovepipes there where you stay in your lane and, you know, no one was ever told to do any of that. So it's been really cool. If somebody had an idea, they floated it. If everybody liked it, we went with it. If people didn't like it, they weren't afraid to say, you know, I really don't think that's a good idea. So it was a great team effort. And this has been an amazing team to work with, too. It's just been very fun. This seems to be a game that everybody that was involved was really excited for this theme and really excited for the integration. You can tell when it seems like a team's like, yeah, I got this assignment and I put it together. This seemed like a passion project for everybody. Yeah. You're starting with Quentin Tarantino, I think. All the way down to the guys building him on the line. It's amazing the passion flowing through. I had said in my Texas presentation when me and Mark were up there that, you know, that the guy that started Atari had said when he started he hired passion, and that's what made Atari explode so quickly, you know. And this is a guy that had, you know, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak working for him in his garage, you know, when he started this thing. But it's like passion breaks through barriers. Passion doesn't take no for an answer. Passion does whatever it takes to make it work. They work extra hours. They work to put extra effort into it. And everybody, as George put it to me one time, George Petro, everybody doing everything they can to make the game better. And it's really about the game. It's not about trying to self-promote or anything like that. But it was being proud to be part of something that as a whole, you could say I helped with that. It wasn't something I did by myself, but I was part of that. And it's really cool.
    11:25
    So for the people who are involved in the process to get a game on your own. So how does this work? Do you guys have to go into the same the same network that everybody else has to go through? Do you get like a players, you know, I guess a collaborators edition, something that you guys can get? I'm just curious how this all works. You get a you get a team T-shirt. That's your T-shirt. Yeah. Cool. Everybody was asking about those at Texas. So they're pretty, pretty bad. You know, bad mother flipper on the back. I say, you know, so there's not a lot of people with those around. But, you know, I got my prototype Pulp Fiction a couple of weeks before Christmas. So I've had one for quite a while. And I was one of the last guys to get it. Josh had one for quite a while. They've had them over at Mark and George's place that play mechanics for quite a while. Dave had a development game, but his was an older one. And I, to me, I'd rather have a prototype one than the production ones. But, you know, if Chance gets to get a production one too, that would be cool too. But mine's an LE, so it will have a topper. It doesn't have one yet, but I will have the topper and everything. And it's just really cool. That was part of the first thing. I talked to Doug when I was getting offered the job at CGC. I said, every new game, I get one. Take that as part of my, you know, the component of my pay. Because I'm a fanboy and a pinball collector, first and foremost. And I just love this stuff. So, yeah, it is cool. I mean, when the LEs come out, they'll officially have a group of them, I'm sure that are set aside for the team, you know, the artists that play mechanics, Scott Pekulski and George, and I'm sure everybody over there will get one that worked on the game. It's just a cool thing, something you were very proud of.
    13:22
    Well, and what shocked me is, like, you guys had talked about, I think it was on the featurette, how Doug wanted to make the topper. I don't know many presidents of companies that are like, you know what, I'll be back in like a week with a topper. And this thing is astounding too. I think that's why they sold out so quick is these toppers are like integrated.
    13:44
    Yeah, the topper is great. CGC does toppers the best. Yes. And where did that come from? I mean, that stuff, that's been Doug's kind of niche. He's really gotten involved with those toppers, and he feels like he's got to outdo himself every time. We were talking about it during Cactus Canyon topper days. How are we ever going to make something better than this that measures up to this? I think you did.
    14:12
    And I have a Cactus Canyon. I think that this is more eye-catching. And I guarantee you there's more aspects to Doug Duba than just doing toppers and disappearing for a while. The guy immerses himself in all kinds of things. And you will never meet another guy that runs a company that's like Doug Duba, just on a bunch of different fronts. He's involved with everything. And that's the way he loves it. It's why he does it. Yeah. No, he's doing a great job there. And it's showing, right? And, you know, David Thiel coming in. We were talking about David Thiel earlier and hearing the music and all that It kind of an interesting story the way he came into play Because when I started as soon as I started in 2020 I went out to dinner with Doug the first week that I was up here in Chicago up in Chicago And he said, you know, anybody who does sound, we need a sound guy really bad. And I said, well, you know, one of my best friends, David Thiel, does sound. And he says, well, can you talk to him and see if he's interested in doing it? And I had just talked to him like the week before. And I knew where he was at with the Deep Root stuff. He was still involved with that. He was still under a quote-unquote exclusive contract. But it was kind of ebbing and coming to an end. Things were not doing so well, let's just say that over there. And I knew David's relationship with them was deteriorating. So I mentioned to him, you know, about the Pulp Fiction thing. I couldn't tell him what it was exactly, you know, the title. But I told him, you know, that Play Mechanics and CGC needed a sound guy. And he was very happy to contact the guys at Deep Root and see if they would take him out of his exclusive role there so that he could do some side work. And they did. And, you know, Mark was ready to pass on. He's like, oh, I talked to Dave. He's still under contract with Deep Root. It's not going to work. And, you know, sorry that that didn't work out. I wasn't going to let it. I wasn't going to let that happen. I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute. We can work something out. I'm sure we can. We were able to. And so it's really cool. And I'm I'm really proud to have been able to help make that happen.
    16:20
    Definitely. Well, go ahead, Josh. I was actually now you go ahead, Scott, because I feel like my question. You go again. No, you go ahead. All right. You do it. You, you, you. OK, me. OK, so let's talk about there. I guess there were some mixed messages and I know this is hard with manufacturing to nail down anything. So we know that there is no official manufacturing guideline of we're going to put these out first and then these out. I would I would venture to say that this is more of a collaborative process. You're trying to get some out there so people can see them. And that's a very similar marketing that other manufacturers have been able to do. We know that Stern does that.
    17:10
    What is your approach to these games? Because there's three models, correct? Right. There's a coin-op edition with a standard cabinet mount start button and a standard black powder-coated Suzo Hap dollar bill acceptor ready coin door. that I've been on location. I keep track of a bunch of games for my buddy and down where I live on the weekends, taking care of games, cleaning and repairing a bunch of Stern and JJP and other brand games. And I see people struggling to figure out how to start a game. And our start button on that stainless steel door is very small. It's lit and everything, but I've seen juicy, bright flashing lights that these guys just can't see. So it's nice to have that coin op edition there. I think that's a great idea and we're gonna need dollar bill acceptor Capability so that that's gonna be kind of your first priority, right? You want to get it out to the masses? So that's gonna be the first thing you want to do So we came up with that idea and made a special edition point op edition around that But you know the entire not having a date when you're gonna ship this thing it's kind of a natural flowing culmination of the process of designing and getting this game ready the extra bake time that we had we're only able to do that because nobody had a schedule and said you got to do it by this day it's got to be out everybody was doing their other things and we're doing this too on the side and then it became more and more you know getting closer and closer and we're we're getting it more and more the way we want it but there was really no pressure to have it out at this certain time by this certain date and so we're just when we're asked about when are they going to be shipping it just kind of seems natural to say that you know we're going to do it as quickly as we can like we've done every other part of this process but we're going to do it right and we're going to do it in a certain order we do have a plan and the plan is of course to get coin-op games out there first so we can get some of these coin-op editions out we want to make some se's to get the process down we'd like to have everything you know flowing well and people know how to build things really well we have no surprises by the time you're putting le's out so we'll do a run of sc's and and then we'll do some some the le's after that and run them through all the way and then do more sc's and coin ops at the end that's kind of what the plan will be so when we talked to mark and josh mark had originally said that they come out with a very rough draft of what they want pulp fiction to be and then quentin kind of came in and said, I don't want it as modernized, right? Right.
    19:52
    But we're also hearing some conflicting ideas of that as well. Can you set the record straight with that, Blitch? Well, I put a rendition of the initial concept of the concept of the concept way back when. This is like just your first ideas. And I put a picture of that up at Texas on one of our first slides. And Mark talked a little bit about his first wide-body design. It had a gun handle for the ball shooter. He was going to put ramps and a bash toy in there. He'd have a subway. He was going to have all these ball locks and things. He was going to have an LCD on it, all these things. But when you try and make a visual rendition of that, you're just really getting a very, very rough thing out there to do exactly what we did in this case. Find out if you're on the wrong path early on before you put a lot of effort into it so that you can get on the right path before you start really putting a lot of details in it. So to see people talking about, well, you know, Quentin Tarantino needs to be credited as part of the designer of this game. That really isn't that isn't the way it should go. I mean, he said we were on the wrong path. Mark, start again. This is more what I had in mind. He sent some pictures of things like strikes and spares and, you know, some of these hand drawn artwork and things and said, this is what I'm looking for. I want something that looks like it was from the 70s and 80s. that's what he that's the time period that quentin loves and so you know that's what we were doing and and so back in those days they they they really weren't showing every single thing and he wasn't telling them you know move this target over there you should have you know this shouldn't be a vertical up kicker it should be some kind of eject hole he doesn't have that kind of input into the design that that just didn't happen and for people to say now that that you know thank got he got involved or it wouldn't have it would have been a horrible looking game like this yeah i mean the the concepts are always going to look a little off-handed when you look at the final project and the you know final product definitely well people don't go with their first whitewood i mean that's the whole point of having a whitewood is to set it up and try it out and make changes way before a whitewood this is this concept of what the artwork might look like And they're just using cut and paste images from the film and things like that. There's nothing like the game was going to look. It was just a rough, this is kind of what we're thinking to begin with before we even start heading towards a white wood. And if this isn't what you want, please let us know. And boy, did he let them know.
    22:25
    He was not shy about it one bit, huh? Yeah. I mean, he had an idea in his mind what it was going to look like. But he couldn't have put it on paper any more than they could have on that concept, right? But when he saw it, he knew it. And when they hit the mark, that was when it was like, okay, we have an approved artwork. We have an approved look to the play field. Everything looks okay to him. Characters are right the way he wants it because it's got to be him.
    22:51
    Pulp Fiction is Quentin Tarantino's baby, period. Miramax is a rubber stamp kind of sign off on the thing, but he has veto rights on virtually everything. And every single thing in his Pulp Fiction comes right through his desk. And he says yes or no to every single thing. That's how important it was to him. Wow. That's that's cool, actually. That license. Yeah. I mean, it just means that much to him. He's that proud of it and doesn't want anything to bend or twist or reshape that image that he's got in his head of what it should be.
    23:23
    So tell me about this theme can be controversial. It's it's it's not going to go into Chuck E. Cheese. I'll put it that way. this is an exclusive we're going to do flip in the script on autism again and we're going to be putting one of these in a children's hospital yes what again adult version yes exactly I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you there are bridges in Brooklyn okay so how do you walk that line of trying to figure out okay so we are we're trying to maximize the audience while being true to Pulp Fiction because Pulp Fiction is, is a movie not for everybody. Pulp Fiction is a vulgar movie. I mean, that's all there is to it. There's a lot of vulgarity in it. And if you're going to do that theme, you've got to be able to add that. You don't want to abandon a lot of the things that made Pulp Fiction what it is. And you can't, you can kind of clean them up a little bit, you know, right off the bat, you got to do something with the vulgarity, the, you know, the profanity is just, it's there, it's everywhere. And then you're going to do all the call-outs. People that are wanting this theme, that love this theme, are in it to a good degree because of Samuel L. Jackson and those words that he uses all the time. And you're going to, you know right off the bat, you've got to make some way to turn that on and off in a game so that you can kind of clean it up. I mean, but you know also that you're not going to be able to completely clean it up. And, of course, the problems with Josh's kid, you know, When he's got a development game in his basement and sometimes the code comes through and it hasn't, David hasn't bleeped out things yet. He has to, literally what goes on with the game, when you switch from profanity to non-profanity, he has to load an entire series of, the entire series of call outs goes back into the game. It actually resets the game when you do that in settings. You go in and tell it profanity or clean and it'll reset the game if you've been playing it one way and you want to switch it to the other. because it has to load all of those sayings up in there. And David has done every single one of those and cleaned them all up and set them all up and, and put them in there to call out. But he's, he's made a set of them with bleeps and he's made a set of them with the real words in there that they use. So it was a lot of added complexity, but you just, you just can't abandon the customers that love Pulp Fiction for what it is. And being profane is a huge part of what makes that, that film so popular. But we always quoting each other. We're laughing about those lines all the time. And we need that anymore these days, people. We need people with a sense of humor again. Don't take everything so literally. You know, step back a little bit. Smile. Take it as it was intended. You know, it doesn't have to be so serious all the time. Well, in David's defense, I mean, Pulp Fiction has 265 F-words in it. Wow, I know that. With a grand total of 431. This is at 265 times, that's all.
    26:32
    That's true. With a great total of 431 curse words in the total of Pulp Fiction. So there's a couple that he had to. That's pretty dense. How long is the movie? The movie's like, what, an hour and 40 minutes?
    26:46
    If so, then that's what? If it's three swears per minute, yeah. And people will still watch it from beginning to end, you know? They don't turn the volume down and do subtitles and things like that. Pulp Fiction is two hours and 34 minutes. So still, that's about two hours or two squares a minute. Okay, here's an idea, though. For Family Mode, what you need to do is hire Christopher Walken to read the lines and self-edit those. Yeah. So you can have Christopher Walken, you know? Does he look like it? yeah exactly i think that would work really well oh yeah well you know having the callouts themselves was a huge part of getting the license and yeah you get you got to use that material and you've got to you've got to also you have a you have to uh oblige to to make it where you can take some of that out also so do you think you could have done this game without the call it's because you don't have a display screen. I mean, they're almost crucial. I don't know if you could get away with it.
    27:57
    And I've seen people say it a lot too, and it's absolutely true that even with the bleeps in there, your mind fills in the bleeps for you. If you're that big of a fan of that scene, you know what's said there, and you're almost saying it in your head. And it takes you to the scene itself. You see what happened in those scenes. You don't really need an LCD screen to have that back. So I think that's part of it too, that you know people know what he said there.
    28:24
    These classic lines, if people know them, I mean, they recite them constantly. Yeah. What mode is your favorite to play?
    28:34
    You know, I really like to start the twist contest. I just think that's really cool. I love the way that that music starts and trying to get the ball up into the pop bumpers. There's a couple of sneaky ways to get them in on the side, but then trying to make the orbit shots, which are my personal green kryptonite. I can't shoot orbit shots very well, but I love that music and the way it all comes together. I just think it sounds really cool. And then you put the topper with it, and it's just like over the top, so to speak.
    29:06
    I don't know if you can speak to this, Butch, but this is your guys' first venture outside of Vacation America or whatever. This is your first venture into pinball that isn't a remake. are we going to be seeing more titles that are drifting away from remakes are you still going to be making remakes can you can you talk to any of that we're still we're still in the remake business we i believe we'll be able to remake some of the remakes again in the future you know run another medieval madness and attack from mars and monster bash i think we still able to do that um contractually It a you know the the contracts up for renewal We can do some certain things They in negotiations with that That's a Doug Duba question. I know they're involved. I know that there's remakes we want to do. I personally am trying to talk Doug into more. I think there's a lot of great games out there that people would love. that he's seeing is not that feasible or not that sellable. I think a lot of those games in those remix era will work. Are we going to do more of this? I mean, if you play mechanics and you say you want to go into this and do a game of your own, why would you stop if your first game was a huge success? I mean, this seems like a test case, a test case to see if, hey, can we do this and can we still make money at it? Because the bottom line is, you know, pinball is they're selling pinball machines. It reminds me of the the Steve Ritchie in the seminars. The first thing he says is, hi, I'm Steve Ritchie and I sell pinball machines. And that's the whole point is that you have to you have to make a profit and make something so they're not losing money on it, at least. so I think this is an excellent test case that could maybe whet their appetite for the next potential future opportunity out there well let me put it this way that I know some of the numbers that were tossed around for what would be considered a success of a play mechanic design and we surpassed those numbers on the first day probably by factors yeah like by factors And that's the other thing about people like the run raw thrills that run play mechanics. Those guys love doing things. That's cool. You know, these these this is a cool game. This is you. You've shown that out of nowhere you can flash like a bolt of lightning here and and really take the market by surprise and by storm. They never even saw it coming. I mean, why would you not want to do another one? I mean, it seems to me like a good recipe for moving forward and doing more. But, you know, that's that's way above my pay grade. I just write manuals, you know.
    32:03
    Well, you're doing really good at your job. I'll tell you, tell you one thing about the cool thing is, you know, Quentin Tarantino thought having a Pulp Fiction pinball was going to be cool. And he didn't I don't think he cared one bit about how many pinsiders thought that was just the baddest ass idea. I guarantee he has no idea what pinside is. He doesn't even care. And so to see this kind of reaction to that from something that we did and all started because he said, no, that's not what I want. I want something retro, and that will be cool. You guys, you'll see. Retro can be cool. And just the whole fact that the pinball is cool. We are we we are our livelihood now, you know, our our hobby, our collection, all that stuff. We are just so fortunate that other people think pinball is cool. People like Quentin Tarantino, people like some of these parts manufacturers, you know, have COVID and things the way that the struggles that some of these places have made. And, you know, we are very people ought to understand that you're a very small user of these parts manufacturers and their facilities. Pinball numbers, you make a few thousand of these. These people are used to making metal parts in the hundreds of thousands, plastic in the tens and hundreds of thousands. And we're just a small piece of that. But a lot of those manufacturers of parts do what they do for us and help us get to, you know, prototypes and onesies and twosies of really expensive, normally things. It's because pinball is cool. They're like, you guys are building a pinball machine? Oh, that's really cool. Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll make 50 of those and we'll make 500 of those. And we'll do that before we do this other order we have for a million parts, you know. But you can't demand that of them, right? So it's really cool that they think it's cool. And, I mean, be honest. I mean, you tell people that you've got a pinball collection. There's nobody that says, well, that's nice. I'm sitting next to people on an airplane all the time. They're like, where are you going? And they're like, oh, I'm going such and such to see my sister or something. They ask you, where are you going? I'm going to Ohio for a pinball show. And they'll just do like a double take. Like, that is so cool. And all of a sudden, they just get this big smile on their face. That is the neatest thing. So you build pinball. You get to work on a pinball machine. You're around people. Pinball is your job? That's just the coolest thing. And I've had people stop me when I'm coming through the airport security. And the guy's like, the line's backing up behind me while he's asking me. They still make those? And what do you do? You work for New Jersey or you live there? And I'm like, I got to get my bag and get on the plane. But it's just so cool to them that it's just something they don't hear often. And it's really neat. we're very fortunate that what we do and what we love is so cool to other people.
    35:01
    Well, and I've got to toot your horn for a second, Butch, because you, one of the things that I don't think I've ever heard from any other pinball release is everyone said how amazing the manual was and how the walkthrough was, how to play this game. Like they were just blown away by looking at the PDF on your guys' website and how easy everything's laid out and how just straightforward it is for anyone to understand. And then you know how many people reached out and was like, this is what we need more in pinball. Like this is perfect. So Mark comes to me. One of the first things Mark says is, can you help me with the rules? Can you help me illustrate the rules? And, you know, they used to do shot maps in the Williams days. Can you help me do shot maps and explain the rules? And I said, heck, yeah, I've done that a lot already. And so he says, well, that'll be great. When I'm ready, you know, I'll send you the rough rules and you can kind of draw them up and show me. So he sends me the rules and I start working on how I would illustrate that and put arrows on the play field. I've done you know, I spend months and months making a drawing of the play field, an illustration of the play field, top and bottom, looking at it directly from above, looking at it directly from below. So I can use the one from above as shop maps because that looks you know, it's got a lot more detail in it than any of the shop maps Williams ever had in the front of their manuals. And so then I can just start adding graphics to the top of that and I can do something that looks pretty cool. And it's and it's all to scale and everything works. So I did that and I was real proud of myself. It's kind of like what I'd done before. But like everything, what I'm doing with the Pulp Fiction manual, I'm trying to make the work that I did previously look like like I was an amateur. So I really stepped everything up quite a bit. I think if people like the other manuals I've done, the Pulp Fiction manual is still going to knock you out of your chair because I put that much more time and effort into it. but Mark looks at these and he comes back and just completely deflates me by saying, well, I think I'm going to need to see artwork and then, you know, the insert labels and things. I don't think this is going to work for me. I'll check. I'll, I'll figure something else out. And I'm like, well, no, no, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I can do better. I can do better. Okay. So that wasn't good enough. Okay. All right. Well, check this out. So I can take the artwork files and I can superimpose them right over the top of the playfield drawing that I have. And you still have all the other parts. I can make the parts invisible that are, you know, this or that. I can take things that are in three dimensions that are above the play field. I can make them translucent so you can see through them. And I can take the plastics artwork and I can put that in. I can put decals in. I can do all these things. I can make your signs and put them off the sign. And so I showed him. And then when I did all that, I'm like, holy cow, I can't see a red line on here showing me where to shoot anymore at all. It's way too busy. so I tried to think of some way that I could show that again and highlight what I'm trying to highlight so I came up with this opaque white complete playfield mask that I put on and then I cut holes in the mask to show little areas of the playfield I wanted to highlight with shots and arrows and and highlighting the inserts that we're going to light and things like that and he just loved it when he saw it and then Josh Sharp started going through it and helping me fix up the areas you know where i had things worded a little wrong or things like that so we went through this iterative process back and forth and then the the play mechanics guys got the idea that they wanted to do a rules manual and put it out and i thought that was a great idea so it was the actual rules manual is just a small excerpt from the the big manual that i've written for pulp fiction it's showing the rules so that worked out really well people really appreciated that and that's really cool too when you do things that haven't been done before and it's like it It seems like a simple kind of thing, you know, put out the rules to the game. Or the other companies I've worked for before, they wanted the rules kept top secret. You know, you couldn't show them that. We want them to discover it themselves. So the next thing you know, somebody's playing it on a Twitch stream and showing everything to everybody. And I had more people come at me to shows and say, you know, where do I start? What do I do? What's my goal? What should I be trying for first? What am I looking at? Why is this all lit? Well, I could explain it to you, but the guys that made the game don't want me to. But now I'm able to, so it's kind of nice. It is nice.
    39:15
    So tell me about the ball locks on the play field. You were talking about the mechanics being slightly different that you were working on.
    39:23
    So this game, everybody likes to call it a street level or single level game, but it really isn't. I mean, you consider the back panel a level of its own. It's up above the play field and things are elevated back there, but you just can't see it. You've got a subway underneath that's below the play field, again, that you can't see. And there's a four-ball lock in each one. And there's four balls in the game. So that means either one of those locks is capable of holding all four balls in the game during any type of mode that you want to stop everything and do something special.
    39:53
    That's really cool in and of itself. As a matter of fact, I brought up that this was a four-ball game at Texas and then, you know, thought I had explained myself. And I go back and I see on Pinside people are saying, oh, well, that means that you don't play three balls. You play four balls during a game now. I'm like, no. I mean, you could set it that way. You can set it from three to five balls, right? It's an adjustment. But when I say a four-ball game, I mean, that's the max you'll ever see on the play field at one time is four balls. That's what you put in the trough to start it up. Because Williams used to put that, right, at the beginning of their manual. This is Theater of Magic as a four-ball game or something like that. And they put that up in the top one of the pages. So I thought it was kind of self-explanatory, but I needed a little more explaining, I guess. I know what you mean. I like on the old stickers too, you know, the old stickers say install however many balls. I think they still do on every new pinball machine, you know? Yeah. So you got subways, you've got, you've got, uh, uh, basically an inclined ramp across the back panel back behind there that, that can hold four balls in succession and keep track of them, how many are in each location. So that's, that's, that's really a cool thing. And it's a physical ball lock. You know, remember back in the days when we had physical ball locks, You didn't just shoot forever trying to get the ball in that hole and have it say, okay, ball one lock and spit it right back out at you again. I put that up. You see how much work I put that in there? Now you're just kicking it back out. No, I'm going to hold it and I'm going to launch you another ball and you start all over again. And with the saucer and everything up there, that makes it great. So you get to try and get another character and collect and all that. It's fun. Can you switch it to virtual ball locks if you prefer that?
    41:31
    I think you can probably shut those off, yeah. I know sometimes tournament players Prefer the virtual option Yeah They can flip or something like that I'm sure Josh Sharp understanding those rules Will do it Yeah I think of it more from a maintenance standpoint You know if something were to break back there You could disable it Still play Even then I'm not sure The way these work that if any of your optos didn't work or how you would disable it, if a ball got shot up in there, I guess you could kick the thing and let it just come back out. That's something we will look into, I'm sure. Yeah, definitely.
    42:14
    So, Butch, there's a lot of information floating around about Pulp Fiction. We've covered a lot tonight. Is there anything that you just feel like we haven't touched on that you just need to know? Yeah, a couple of things that I wanted to hit on that I've seen some confusion about. The center post, people are saying, you know, oh, that's not going to come in the game. It's an optional. So they said it's optional. It won't be in the game. The center post will be in the game shipped from the factory. It will be manufactured with the center post in place. In the coin box, you will have a goodies bag, and part of that goodies bag will be a plastic plug if you want to take it out of there. And we've gone to great, you know, CGC with making play fields and all that. We know what can happen if you try and pound a post out of the play field and it's in too tight. It can take some of the clear. It can tear up the, you know, cause the veneer to come loose. It can cause all kinds of problems. So it's been specially made, specially screened around there and routed out so that that post will come out fairly easily and be able to put back in. And then you could just take the plastic plug and put it in if you don't want anything. And the game will be brutal at that point. and we saw some people saying, well, why would you put a post in like that during the show when you want to shorten ball times? And I'm like, who said we wanted to shorten ball times? You know, we did. You're going to stand in line for 45 minutes. You want to play your ball too. You don't want to get up there to find out a game. How can I show you what I've done in this game or what this team has put together with a two-ball game and, you know, with the outlanes completely open and all that? That's not the way it's going to play in your home. Why would I want to introduce you to you? Like we have people complaining about the ball times and the length of games and things like that. Somebody was telling me, you guys ought to outlaw four player games. I'm like, so you'd rather stand there and watch four people play one at a time rather than a four. That will take a little bit longer. But, you know, so pinball is a social game. I want to play with other players. I want to I want to compete with someone, three other people. That's what's great about it. So, you know, people are standing in line. Sometimes you get some of those people that one person stands in line and the three guys come up and join them right when they get to the game. That kind of a bummer that people do that But welcome to society I guess Yeah right Then the other thing I wanted to talk about was the sound Texas Pinball Play Festival was like super super loud We had a pin sound booth next to us that had like eight games facing straight at us. I was telling people, you know, when we were raising our volume, their volume would go up. And in between our two booths, I was calling it the kill zone. I mean, you couldn't talk in there. It physically hurt my ears to stand in there. And I I'm a social guy myself and pinball is a social game. I like to stand there and talk to people while they're playing. And I just couldn't do it in Texas. It was too loud. In fact, the last day I went in with earplugs, I couldn't stand it anymore. It was hurting too bad. And, you know, damaged your ears as cumulative. That stuff, it doesn't get better. Your ears don't heal. They just get worse. So, yeah, it was unfortunate the way that the layout was there that we couldn't they couldn't hear things a little bit better. But, you know, it's a it's a loud floor out there. Some of these smaller shows that we'll have the games at, you'll get a better, better feel for for what it sounds like. And it was cool that we were able to put the profanity on for a while after hours and things like that. So that's a thing we'll try and do with the other shows, too. So so we can kind of please both sides of the fence there. But it's tightrope.
    45:55
    Well, I know one question that we have not covered tonight that I think a lot of people are asking, and I don't know if you can give us a straight answer, Butch, but when are we going to start seeing these games? When are they going to start shipping out and getting people's homes?
    46:09
    Yeah, that's a good question. Me, working for CGC like I do, I don't like to talk about specific dates for sure, but we're doing things the right way. We're doing things in our own speed, and they're going to be done when they're done, and when they ship, they ship. And I know that's a horrible answer. If I order, I wouldn't want to hear that. Just know that, you know, I was going to get a prototype game a lot longer previous to when I got my game than I did. But I waited for it, and it was worth the wait. and I hate telling people that, but there's no reason to believe that CGC is going to drag their feet, that Play Mechanics is going to, you know, just kick back now while we've got everybody beaten to a froth and just say, well, now let's see how long this lasts if we don't ship games. We're going to try and get them out just as quickly as we can. We're going to do everything we can to get them in people's hands, to get them on location where people can play them and the games are going to be great. We had a lot of bake time on this And as such, we're going to be careful in the final steps, which is production and actually getting them into your hands. We want to know how they're going to work and how how well they're going to survive. For instance, the drop targets on this game. We I said in Texas last year, the Cactus Canyon finishing Cactus Canyon seminar that, you know, we've worked on all these drop targets for Cactus Canyon when, in fact, we really kind of worked on them for Pulp Fiction. They were being fixed up and readied for Pulp Fiction. So we were doing work even during Cactus Canyon development on the drop targets so that they wouldn't brick and they would stay up. And you can see in the Pulp Fiction application of those same targets that, you know, that a lot of the things that we did are working very well. And, you know, it took a lot longer to get Pulp Fiction and Cactus Canyon out because of that. But both games are better for it.
    48:11
    I'll say it again. There's like three things. You can have it fast. You can have it good quality. You can have it cheap.
    48:19
    The fast one is just not going to be the choice. You can have two or three. We're going to put the third place, the time, all the time. That's just the way it's going to work. We're going to give you a good quality product, and people have been raving about the price. We're trying to keep these games as cheap as we can. I think we're doing a really good job of it, and I think we're still building them really good too. It just takes a little longer to do.
    48:45
    I've heard third quarter. I'll put a number out there like everybody else is hoping for. I'm hoping as much as anybody, and I know the rest of the team is as well.
    48:56
    Doing everything we can to get them as quick as we can. I'm just going to give a quick shout-out. Where are you this week? We're recording April 11th, but where are you this week? And I want to make sure that people know, like, hey, these events are out there. So what do you promote? I am at my good friend Keith Campanelli's house. This is his spare bedroom where he puts me up. And I am here for Pin Brew, which will be starting, Pin Brew Ohio, which will be starting up in Girard, Ohio, on Thursday. That would be Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. And this is, you know, craft breweries getting together. They're going to have eight different breweries coming, bringing their crafts in. And, yeah, they'll be playing pinball and drinking beer all weekend. And I don't drink myself, but I'll be playing the pinball part and have a Diet Coke with me. So, yeah, it's great. It's a great show. It's the second one I've been to. It's the third one overall. I think Keith was actually on you guys' show promoting the first COVID. Yeah, it was the first show after basically when people started opening up after the COVID lockdowns. So it was interesting to talk about him trying to, okay, we want to do a show, but how do we do it responsibly? But people still were itching for that social aspect, which is why the value of pinball machines skyrocketed because people wanted that experience. They crave that experience. And if they couldn't go to a bar or an arcade, then they wanted that in the home.
    50:33
    Yeah, I see over Josh's shoulder all these pinball machines back there. If you had four or five people there, they'd be playing, you know, and you'd be playing with them. You know, when you're all by yourself, your machines are just beautiful. You know, you don't seem to get much time to play them. But it's a social thing, you know. Get out there and come to these shows. They're great. These people are putting a lot of effort into making these places available to people, like-minded people to get there and enjoy each other's company and a passion, share the passion together and, you know, drink some beer, have some fun, make some new friends. Drink a Diet Coke. What's that? I'll drink a Diet Mountain Dew. So I'll drink my Fresca. I like my peach Fresca. That's good stuff.
    51:16
    Whatever fits your horn right there. Yeah. Drink it. Thank you so much, guys. I really think, honestly, CGC should make you the spokesperson because you put our concerns to rest. You're always a great spokesman whenever I hear you at Texas, whenever I hear you at Expo. You believe in this product, and you're right. I can't remember. We sat down at breakfast at Texas last year, and you said no one remembers how long it took the game to get out. They always remember the problems that they have with the game when they have it. Once they have the game, if it's quality and it's amazing, they're going to love the game for the rest of their life and not have an issue with it. And that's what they're going to remember is the love of the game, right? So if it takes a couple more months, then so be it. Because you don't want to put out a bad product and then it'll leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Doug Dubas says it best. You know, they'll forgive late, but they won't forgive wrong. Yeah, that's very true. I will say from my perspective, the number of CGC games I have purchased is three. The amount that I have sold is zero.
    52:28
    They're staying. They're not going anywhere. They're amazing games, and they've retained their value. I mean, no one really talks about that, and that's what shocks me. Any other company outside maybe Stern, everyone else's product just deflates. But CGCs CGC does not They're bulletproof I've had people come up to me And tell me I go work on this guy's collection And he has all the CGC games At the beginning of one line And he says you don't need to mess with those there All these other ones are broken You don't need to mess with those CGC games They're like tanks If you can get me a line On a Monster bash with a topper let me know we'll see what we can do say all your prayers and eat your vegetables and be a good boy you know and maybe maybe it'll be one of your christmas are you santa claus now you're santa claus yeah yeah that would be a great job too i think i got the greatest job in the world i tell people that all the time and i my passion i can't hide it i'm sorry but you know just as part of i told jack granary when he first started talking to me and i told him i said i put my passion for pinball up against anybody's anybody's yep i said i just love this stuff and and i can't hide it so thank you guys speaking of your company and and working for you if you're looking for a job they are hiring right now for a pin tech uh you do have to live in the chicagoland area but if you want to send your resume in talk to kathy there at cgc you can find the phone number they're on their website go it's a wonderful company to work for if you want to work with butch you've heard him for almost an hour now and this man bleeds passion you wouldn't you'd want to be around this every day i mean it's amazing so great company i like you said scott they're just quality product i have no complaints to the build quality and the the amazingness that is a CGC product. Yep, completely agree. Looking forward to more of them. Always. You guys aren't going anywhere, right? Not that I know of. I don't plan on going anywhere. I'm having a blast. We're good. It's great to see people enjoying our stuff and being able to play it.
    54:49
    There's no greater thank you that we could get from the pinball community than the reception we've received with Pulp Fiction. If you're in Ohio this weekend, go ahead and go to Pinbrew and hang out with Butch and play the game. Not with Butch. Mark Ritchie's going to be here too. Come hang out with him. Play with Mark. We interviewed Mark last. Yeah.
    55:13
    If you want a cheap date, apparently take Butch because all you got to do is buy him some Diet Coke. Diet Coke, yeah, you can buy those. Two Pulp Fictions to play here at Pinbrew, so come play. Nice. Scott, you got anything else for us that we can think of?
    55:27
    You know what? I'm just man, this last month has been crazy for pinball. It's been so much fun to get the excitement because there's, there was a lot of anticipation and I would say this is one of the few times where the hype was justified for all the games. I'm truly excited for, for all the games that are coming out and it's, it's a great time to be alive. Yep. And I'm going to plug our product right now. I am currently wearing the Keith Elwin shirt. I know you haven't been able to see it. Mike's kind of in the way.
    56:05
    But if you want to get a hold of this or other sweet swag, we've had a lot of people get the shoes. A lot of people got the shoes. I actually still need to get my shoes. You got the shoes. Did you like them? I got the shoes. My son has the shoes. I have not given them to him yet.
    56:22
    But I did get my shoes. I love them. And they are true to fit size. So I wear a size 12. and 12 came in and they were perfect. I mean, they feel comfortable. I'm the kind of guy that has, I'm a firm believer in orthotics. I'm only 35, but I'm always on my feet all day. And so if you're worried about the comfortableness of the shoe, buy some orthotics. I do the FP insoles that I found. Those are amazing. Those are the best ones. But seriously, silverballswag.com slash collections slash Loser Kid Pinball. That's where you can get it. Loser Kid Pinball, Silver Ball. You'll get it. And there's a ton of product there. Shoes, shirts, backpacks, tumblers. I mean, coffee mugs with the original logo. We've got plenty of original logo. We've got Keith Allen. We've got the print. The Brad Albright, yeah. Yeah, the Brad Albright print. And we went with this print because, you know, Brad actually had suggested that we do something that's more iconic imagery to pinball. So that way you want to wear it. It's not all inside joke stuff. And you know what? I think he was right. I appreciate all the input Brad gave us. And he was like a third team member on this. So we'll have to get Butch something. We'll have to, maybe he wants the sweet shoes or something. Fruit and size shoes, huh?
    57:43
    They're awesome. I'm almost 60. And yeah, I believe in orthotics too. I've come to believe. I don't have to be on my feet all day for them to hurt. Exactly. Well, if you're in a pinball tournament, especially at the Sanctum or something like that, you're on your feet for 24 hours, you're definitely going to want them, right? Yeah. If they want to get a hold of you, Butch, how do they get a hold of you? I am Butch at Chicago-Gaming.com. So it's Chicago-Gaming.com. Butch at Chicago-Gaming.com. Awesome. And if they want to get a hold of you, Scott, how do they do that? you know Facebook's the easiest way just get him some shoes yeah you can always drop an email to us that goes to Josh but he lets us know if there's something I need to see correct and if you want to get hold of us then hit us at Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com all the socials so Facebook, Twitter, Twitch Instagram, YouTube all at Loser Kid Pinball I think we even have a TikTok now and I don't know what we're going to do with it I do want to give a shout out to Jen Rupert, though, with no coin drop required. She's doing some amazing stuff. She got her shoes, and she pulled out some sweet videos with her shoes. And thank you so much, Jen, for everything you do for us. And you guys, get out from under those headphones and get out to a show every once in a while. We need to see more of you. Come on. I will definitely be at Chicago. I have a pretty busy schedule until then. But definitely reserve me a breakfast there. Pinbrew next year you still owe Keith one yeah I do owe Keith okay thanks buddy thank you so much guys alright see you in two weeks you bet