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Ep 80: Catching Up

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 22m·analyzed·Mar 4, 2022
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Loser Kid reviews Weird Al's P3 announcement and Stern's production delays amid industry capacity strain.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss the Weird Al announcement by Multimorphic, its theme appeal across demographics, marketing execution, pricing communication clarity, and Stern's decision to delay their next cornerstone title. They explore how Weird Al could drive P3 adoption, the platform's long-term viability, and production capacity issues across the industry.

Key Claims

  • Weird Al's Museum of Natural Hilarity sold out all limited editions (227 units)

    high confidence · Josh Roop stated this directly in the episode

  • Stern increased production by 25 percent but still cannot keep up with demand

    medium confidence · Josh Roop citing production constraints discussed at Expo with Rick Nagel

  • Weird Al is the first pinball machine to feature rap songs

    high confidence · Scott Larson made this claim and Josh confirmed it after discussion

  • Weird Al's first song was released in 1976 on Dr. Demento

    medium confidence · Josh Roop stated this but admits uncertainty about the exact song title

  • Multimorphic has released five games: Weird Al, Heist, Cosmic Kart Racing, Lexi Lightspeed, and Cannon Lagoon

    high confidence · Scott Larson enumerated the game kits on Multimorphic's website

  • Led Zeppelin came out 15 months ago (April)

    high confidence · Scott Larson calculated this timeline to explain Stern's production delays

  • Multimorphic's marketing is in the top three among pinball manufacturers

    medium confidence · Josh Roop's opinion after analyzing their announcement strategy

  • George Gomez is now filling the designer role vacated by departing designer at Stern

    medium confidence · Scott Larson stated 'that's what he kind of announced on the last podcast he was on'

Notable Quotes

  • “Weird Al resonates with me because he was like the first album I had bought when I got a CD player... Running with Scissors”

    Josh Roop @ ~middle section — Personal connection to Weird Al and explanation of why the theme resonates with collectors

  • “it's not a marketing guy but maybe have like hey this is the basic machine with maybe generic art or something on the side and then say, by the way, this plus a game module equals this”

    Scott Larson @ ~60% mark — Constructive critique of Multimorphic's pricing page clarity

  • “multimorphic has a hit on their hands i think it's going to move units”

    Josh Roop @ ~65% mark — Positive overall assessment of Weird Al's commercial potential

  • “the demand is – well, just think about it. like we've been sponsored by flipping out for a year and a half, two years now. And, and it used to be, I could call up Zach and say, Hey, what do you have in stock? And he'd give me a list... Now it's, I'm on a wait list for six months.”

    Josh Roop @ ~85% mark — Demonstrates industry-wide capacity constraints and extreme demand

  • “Why in the world would they have put out so much stuff because eventually you do kind of trip over yourself”

    Josh Roop @ ~75% mark — Explanation of why Stern's aggressive release schedule became unsustainable

  • “I don't know a single person so i've mentioned this to a lot of non-pinball people for the last week or whatever it's been announced. And every single person I've talked to about Weird Al knows who Weird Al is.”

    Scott Larson @ ~55% mark — Demonstrates Weird Al's strong mainstream recognizability and mass appeal

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonZach MinneypersonMultimorphiccompanyStern PinballcompanyRick NagelpersonGeorge GomezpersonDennis CreaselpersonWeird Al YankovicpersonColin McCallipineperson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Multimorphic officially announced Weird Al's Museum of Natural Hilarity with teaser and full trailer within 2-3 days

    high · Josh and Scott describe the announcement timeline and marketing execution

  • ?

    product_launch: Weird Al LE version sold out, with 227 units reported

    high · Josh: 'Supposedly, they're all sold out of the LEs. So they've at least sold 227.'

  • $

    market_signal: Industry-wide capacity strain: Stern increased production 25% but still cannot meet demand; distributor wait lists extended to 6 months

    high · Josh cites Rick Nagel's overwork at Expo and his own experience with Flippin' Out inventory transitions

  • ?

    product_strategy: Multimorphic's P3 pricing structure was confusing; base unit ($8,300) plus game kits not clearly delineated on initial marketing

    high · Scott criticizes pricing page clarity; Josh and Zach Minney acknowledged the issue; prices buried in scrollable section

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Stern designer departure (referenced as 'Richie' based on timeline) replaced by George Gomez, who is now designing additional titles

    medium · Scott: 'that's what he kind of announced on the last podcast he was on'; Josh acknowledges Gomez is 'a very busy man'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern delayed their next cornerstone title release, attributed to production capacity and designer workload

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.248

0:00
thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast we are on episode 80 my co-captain with me scott larson and today it's just me and you today buddy yeah you know it's uh sometimes you have to catch up yeah we haven't really talked about the news for a little bit and yeah it's It's been kind of weird. Yeah, I know. It's been a lot of fun. But it's, yeah, there's a few things that we do need to catch up on, which will be nice. And let's start off with our sponsor, though. Josh, who's our sponsor? You know, Flippin' Out Pinball has done an awesome job for us.
0:43
Zach has helped me. I'm actually getting some stuff submitted on warranty for my Jurassic Park. The light has went out on my QR reader for my new internet, or my Stern Connected. And, man, he is right on top of it. And so, like I said, if I've ever had an issue, Zach is taking care of it. I've always been happy with his results. And he keeps me up to date as much as the manufacturers do. And so if you're looking for that next pinball machine, now that Stern's not making some for a little bit, we'll get into that a little bit later. But if you're looking for that Godzilla or the Rush or Mando, they're going to be making all those this year. And so hit him up. He'll get you taken care of. And if he doesn't sell it, he will probably somehow try to find a way to get you one. He'll acquire it. Yep. So he's awesome that way. And, yeah, check out Flippin' Out. Zach and Nicole, many. All right. And, Josh, there's a lot of stuff that we really – We've been a little rush heavy and probably because I'm a huge Rush fan. Probably. But there's a few other things that have happened. I guess most notably Weird Al was announced by P3 or Multimorphic or however you want to call it. So, okay, let's talk. What's your first impression on Weird Al? Let's talk about the theme. When you hear, were you surprised by the theme? I want to ask you first, are you a fan of Weird Al? I don't know anyone who's not a fan of Weird Al because at least there's one song that is – it's fun, right? I mean, it's – there are many of them that are on dad joke level where people will groan a little bit but at the same time think, yeah, that's pretty funny. Well, my son's at 11, and so when he saw this, he got his first MP3 player that's like for Christmas. and it was nothing but aquabats and weird owls all he wanted on his mp3 player and so it was funny because when i showed him this he's like we're gonna buy this right and i was like let me play it first and then we'll decide from there right and uh so he's like i'm going to texas then right oh wow okay he wants to level up i was like uh no yeah that's that's pretty funny It's funny because I feel like I was listening to the pinball show, which they did a fantastic deep dive, or at least a dive of the Weird Al theme and everything. And one of the things that they had said is it feels like everyone was a fan of Weird Al at that pre-teen, teenager boy stage. We all remember the song that made us giggle that we shared with all of our friends. But we've all kind of grown up, and we still have a nostalgia for Weird Al. but it might not be our go-to music. And I feel like that's a perfect metaphor for like pinball. A lot of us enjoyed it as teenagers or preteens. Like we love the arcades. We love pinball. So after I thought about that, I was like, well, kind of where it all is the perfect theme for pinball. Cause they both kind of go hand in hand. I, I think the theme is good. Yes. Um, in that it's certainly recognizable. Yes. It feels very much like a, uh, I don't know, like a Saturday afternoon special or something where it's, you know, it's this is not. Well, I'm going to borrow from Dennis a little bit. Dennis Creasel, when he's talking about this is not an A-list title and that this is not like a huge one that is is culturally touching everybody, such as, you know, like Mandalorian was huge and Stranger Things. All these things that are huge that are relevant at this time. And Weird Al's been around for so long. Really, I remember him way back from the Dr. Demento days, which he would submit these – I think I remember the first song that he did was Yoda.
Bowen Cairnsperson
Jerry (Multimorphic)person
Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
The Pinball Showmedia
Weird Al's Museum of Natural Hilaritygame
Beccaperson
Joel Engelberthperson
Nick Brown (Pinsomniac)person
Ray Dayperson

high · Josh: 'I've got my notes next that Stern has pushed back their cornerstone.' Timeline suggests ~3-month delay based on Gomez availability

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community sentiment on Weird Al shifted from surprise to enthusiasm; theme recognizability universally appreciated

    high · Scott: 'every single person I've talked to about Weird Al knows who Weird Al is'; widespread non-pinball consumer recognition

  • ?

    content_signal: The Pinball Show released detailed analysis of Weird Al theme and pricing structure, complementing official announcement

    high · Josh references Pinball Show's 'fantastic deep dive' and 'fantastic dive of the Weird Al theme'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Weird Al licensing deal represents Multimorphic's first major cultural IP outside of original IP; suggests expanded licensing strategy

    medium · First Multimorphic game with recognizable external theme; previously Heist, Lexi Lightspeed, Cosmic Kart Racing were original IP

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Multimorphic positioned Weird Al as family-friendly, tablet-like game experience distinct from traditional pinball; first rap songs in pinball category

    high · Josh and Scott describe it as 'kid's party' music experience; Scott confirms no other pinball has rap content

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: New title announcements causing order cancellations due to FOMO; example: Mandalorian buyers canceling for Godzilla, leaving distributors with revenue loss

    high · Josh describes distributor vulnerability when Godzilla announced 6 months after Mandalorian; no deposits model amplifies impact

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern designer Rick Nagel working without days off for 2+ years; production bottleneck cannot be solved by capacity increases alone

    high · Josh cites Rick Nagel's workload from Expo conversation; notes 25% production increase insufficient to meet demand

    • 4:49
    And it was – it's funny, but you're just like, yeah, that's kind of a funny thing. But it's like Saturday Night Live. Yes. Saturday Night Live, it's a parody of something else. and yes it's funny but is it enough to carry a theme but uh i i think weird al is certainly enough to carry a slot machine or something like that and this feels a little bit like in that realm where hey it's it's interesting enough and quirky enough that maybe it'll be fun um well and what's funny is when it was announced so we hadn't seen anything yet it was just essentially weird al's museum of hilarity right um we were in a chat with some of the people at work at P3 and they're not giving us anything. They're just, they keep saying more soon, more soon. And, and one of them asked, well, what's your first impression? Just, just from the title and from, and I said, it reminds me of Alice Cooper's nightmare castle. And they're like, how so? And I'm like, well, think like Alice Cooper was all about going through his nightmare castle. Like it was progressing through rooms and stuff like that, just off of the name alone. and so it makes me think that you're going to progress through a museum like you'd uh with weird al and whether the rooms correlate to whatever it you know they're different themed and he's like you got all that just off the name and i said yeah that's that's how else would you take that because it's weird al's museum of hilarity and and they said that's interesting that i'd said that and then like a couple days later when they did a full announcement it's kind of similar like you you hit the orbits to go through different rooms The thing that kind of bugs me Like I know people keep saying There's like 17 fully featured songs No They're not I get that like The hamster songs in there For probably one of the modes I can't remember if it's like a hamster multi-ball or whatever But Harvey the Wonder Hamster Is a 27 second long song There are Gum commercials with longer music You know Yeah, this is different than Rush's 16 songs. Yes, very different. And most of those – three of those songs alone in Rush are pushing 20 minutes. Yes. So if you're looking at – that's an hour on three songs. And I know it's a completely different genre. I get that. but there is something about well okay so um do you remember back in the day when you buy a um you could buy a cd that has um like um oh what am i thinking like uh
    7:32
    sitcom intro songs right yes you know you did like the cheers intro song or the golden girls intro song or something like that so this is a little bit past your age but the used an album called in love and death and they had a lot of intros and outros from each song that was like carnival music or right different like stuff that like sound like a bomb ticking and then you realize it's alarm clock stuff like that right but it kind of feels like you're listening to it but it's if you put it all together it's probably about 40 minutes total of music and it feels like hey this is it's kind of a a cd uh that you would put on at a kid's party yeah right and so now that's not bad by the way i mean arcades were built on amusing kids really and how many how many people have that intro stories like how did you get into whatever into pinball and they're like well my parents were in a bowling league so they took me to the bowling thing and they gave me some money and i went to the arcade and really and that's basically what it was so i i think this is kind of a a new version of that uh so the theme i would say was confusing when i first thought about it yes but it felt hey this could work given especially multimorphic the only people that can actually do this would be multimorphic because it's a little bit more of a um i guess a light-hearted thing i think of like heist think of all those things where they're a they're a little bit bridging that gap of like the ipad game yeah or or one of a couple of those things that typically have like fun animations and are geared more toward kids yeah so i this is uh if you're gonna do weird al then this is the platform for it i agree and i think honestly it is a great theme i think it's funny that like a lot of people have complained like dad rock dad rock and like the first thing that came up with weird al was dad rock i'm like if anything it's kind of the furthest from it like it's dad jokes well okay but it's it's the dad era so when people talk about dad era okay fine but who's buying these things yeah but like half the songs are from 2000s and later Okay, but still. Dads are buying these things. Correct. You don't get – you probably, when you're selling games, you probably sell four games to someone in the 35 to 55-year-old age group than you do in anybody in the 15 to 30 age group. But can we at least acknowledge this is probably the very first pinball machine to have a rap song in it? And not just one. It's got multiple.
    10:26
    Is there any other pinball machine that has rap in it? Well, apparently, no. No. But that's my point. It's like, so we're, I know it's a parody. Like, I get that it's not the original song by Charmeleon or by Coolio. Yeah.
    10:43
    Amish Paradise is the first rap song in a pinball. Oh, and I love it. But that's the thing, though, is like, I see the same, and Weird Al resonates with me because he was like the first album I had bought when I got a CD player. My parents gave me my CD player. I got the Jurassic Park soundtrack, and I got the Space Jam soundtrack, and then I went to Walmart and the first CD I bought was Weird Al's Running With Scissors. You rebel. Rebel. As soon as they announced this, I did a lot of digging because what concerned me the most is when I saw the song list, is me being someone that actually enjoyed Weird Al and downloaded his songs as I was growing up and stuff like that, or bought his CDs. I didn't recognize a lot of these songs. But you recognize Weird Al, though. Correct. So I'm not super worried about that, because if someone, yes, I know there are some of the big songs out there. Yeah. But Weird Al is one of those guys that is probably personally bigger than any of his songs. Probably. If you look at the reverse, most of the time it's like the one-hit wonders where they're known for the one song. You think of Flock of Seagulls, I Ran So Far. That's the only song that really comes to mind. You can't think of anything. If you think of Weird Al, you're thinking he's almost more of a comedian than anything. Yes, exactly. And so he's going to make you laugh with whatever he's going to do. Well, it's impressive that he's spanned 40-plus years. His first song that he released was in 1976. I don't know if everyone realizes that. I mean, that's crazy. Was that My Bologna? No. What was his first one? I'd have to look it up. It was one for Dr. Demento, and it was something like My Station Wagon Car or whatever or something like that. Yeah, he would record it with some handheld radio thing when he was singing into it. I mean, man. Okay, talk about – I want Weird Al's level of confidence. Yes. Because there is zero chance that I would dare to be stupid. Taking a page from Weird Al. He really pushes the envelope of, I don't care how far I'm going to push this, I'm going to make you laugh. Well, what makes me chuckle, too, is there's almost two different eras of Weird Al. There's a starting out Weird Al up to early 90s, is what I'm going to say. Where it was almost a lot of commentary on the current pop culture or whatever it was. and so like a lot some of these songs haven't aged well because um they're making references to stuff that happened in the 80s that yeah i mean some a lot of people might remember some don't um but his newer stuff everything kind of from the 90s onward was more of a commentary on uh stuff stuff that you would like word crimes is a great example people being almost illiterate with their writing and stuff like that that's that's kind of timeless where where uh i don't i can't think of a song like like a surgeon it's still a good one and i want to say it's kind of timeless but um it does have a lot of references in the 80s yeah and so some of it falls flat but um overall i'm excited where it all is it's funny because you and i it looks fun that that's absolutely the thing it looks like a blast and i can't wait to play it well what makes me chuckle we did not know this was coming no and someone had pointed out to me you guys realize that you've mentioned weird al on every episode for like the last five episodes but like were you trying to drop hints and i was like no we did not know this was coming legitimately yeah my first like i said my first cd was running with scissors and on that cd is jerry springer which is a cover of one week by the Barenaked Ladies. So we brought that up with Ed. And then we know Ray Day is a huge Weird Al fan. He's great. So we at least had to have one Weird Al reference in that episode. I mean... It's totally random. Yeah, there is some serendipity about that. So, okay, here's the question, though. I think this looks fun. You think this looks fun. Yes. Will this sell Multimorphic Games?
    14:58
    Supposedly, they're all sold out of the LEs. So they've at least sold 227. Okay, but this is one of those things where if you adopt this platform,
    15:08
    and it is kind of a no-brainer that you're already – you like this version of pinball. Yes. And it really is a no-brainer to say, well, it's like buying a Nintendo. Like, oh, I can buy a new cartridge for it. So, yes, that is the brilliance of this is that anybody who has a game will probably buy the module.
    15:32
    Now, the question is, do you think that they have new people buying off this game? I want to say yes. I think I know you and I had this discussion with Joel Engelberth and Nick Brown, Pinsomniac, while we were traveling to and from Pinball Olympics at Expo. and the complication with Multimorphic has been it's a cool system, but I haven't felt like there's anything that just draws me in enough to take the plunge for the price. Right. And so I think a lot of people thought, wait, they're excited by the technology,
    16:12
    but Heist just doesn't do it for them, or Lexi Lightspeed just doesn't do it for them. and so like we'll wait till everyone's been hearing about this license themed rumor for how long now at least a year now and so like well may that's when i'll take the dive because some people want a cabinet that's recognizable and obviously this cabinet really is it looks really cool with the weird out the uh the we're going to call it the pro or the standard uh it's got the the colors exploding off of it out of the museum with weird al just blaring into the microphone and then the limited edition is like bright yellow orange and he's just uh still on kicking out of the side of the cabinet yeah with references to all the songs on his body you know and so i think people that have wanted a multi-morphic uh with good artwork this is what you're getting and that's a recognizable theme i don't know a single person so i've mentioned this to a lot of non-pinball people for the last week or whatever it's been announced. And every single person I've talked to about Weird Al knows who Weird Al is. So it's easily identifiable by everyone. That's including my wife, who as soon as I told her, she's like, well, does it have white and nerdy? Because that's her Weird Al jam. You know what I'm saying? And so she's not like, wasn't like, we're buying one, right? But it was still like, I know the theme interested right yes and it it peaked and so I think it's a very smart decision um the thing I think that hurt them in all of this um I want I do want to make one parallel really quick before I go to the hurt is I felt like they they almost mirrored what Stern does to a tee they did a teaser trailer which does a teaser trailer right Stern's now been waiting about a week before they actually drop a full trailer they waited about two days two three days um but you you still got a pretty good trailer uh giving you pretty much the features the toys that are the standouts um even the black backdrop with a person playing the pinball machine which was becca from fliptronic that was pretty awesome um just like the way that they've been announcing all this like the teasers and everything like that i feel like it's a very stern-esque So Stern has proven that their marketing works. So why not copycat them? And I think they did a great job of that. Sure. The only thing I think that hurt them was when the pricing came out, it was kind of convoluted. And even me, that's... Yeah, it was a little hard to understand. And even Zach and Dennis brought this up. Yeah.
    18:57
    Okay, I'll use the car analogy, right? Yeah. If you go in to buy a car, what do you want? What's the one thing you want? You want the out-the-door price, right? Yeah. You're like, I go in and it's like, okay, if I'm buying this car and if I bring in a bucket of cash, how much do I have to do it? Yeah. And they could have done a little better about just saying, hey, buy the whole package. Hit this button.
    19:24
    Well, and it's like me, though. I've been heating and air conditioning for 15 plus years now. I have learned with a customer, I never go in there and say, okay, this system is going to cost you $3,000. Yeah. And then they're like, perfect. Go ahead and install it. So I start installing it, and then when I'm all done, I'm like, okay, now it's $5,400. Whoa, where did $2,400 come from? Well, the $3,000 was just for the furnace. But if you wanted it installed. If you want me to actually put it together for you. Yeah. There's going to be another $2,400. Yeah. See, that's what they should have done the upfront price of. Right. They should have went in with the assumption of this is we're all appealing to new people that are getting into the system for the first time. Yeah. Like I really agreed with Zach and Dennis and they cover this a little more. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Go listen to it. Go listen to the pinball show and they'll cover it more in depth. But that was one thing that I think was definitely something they needed. But that being said, I think that's more of a marketing thing. Yeah. And granted, the dust has settled. It's all worked out now. Yes. It a hiccup It a learning curve They did great I think Multimorphic handling this really well Yeah However I did just click on it and it said it is slightly confusing still I would argue because you click on it says P3 pinball machine You click on it and it has the LE version of Weird Al. Yeah. And you click down and it says it does say for the base only. but if you do that i don't know i still would think that if you go to stern and you click on it and you see a picture of an le machine that's what you're buying yeah so i i don't i'm not a marketing guy but maybe have like hey this is the basic machine with maybe generic art or something on the side and then say, by the way, this plus a game module equals this. Yeah. Cause you can actually see that visually. So that, that may be something that would make it a little less. Now, if you go, if you just click down just a little bit, it says the, the price for the base P three machine with no game kit is 8,300. Prices vary for game kits. And so, And it does specifically say price as shown in image above is $13,100. Yeah. So that is fair, but you have to scroll down a little bit to see that. So this is – it looks like the fifth game. Am I counting that right? Because I see their game kits. I see Weird Al. I see Heist, Cosmic Kart Racing, Lexi Lightspeed, and Cannon Lagoon. And then you have some other smaller ones. You have Sorcerer's Apprentice, which uses Cannon Lagoon.
    22:21
    Then you also – that uses Cannon Lagoon, right? No, it uses – No, Cosmic Cart Racing. Sorry. Cosmic Cart, yeah. It uses Cosmic Cart Racing. I knew it was wrong when I said it. Scoop and Shoot, Lexi. So you have all these other ones for smaller amounts. Yep. But, you know, hey, they're getting to have enough options that, you know what? if you have limited space and you want something that is pinball adjacent, um, then this is good. It's, it is different than a standard pinball machine, but I still feel that it is a fun experience.
    22:58
    Well, and I think, yes, the upfront cost is a little steeper than most pinball machines, but I think the longterm costs, like if this is a system that you're interested in and it has a lot of depth already to, it's only been out for five years and they've had how many games like cornerstones quote unquote cornerstones there's at least been one a year yeah so you know they're at least going to put out product and uh and even in between that product they're having different rule sets they're having different games that that correlate with the modules you already own they're legitimately putting out as many games as other companies like jjp and spooky i mean really this is their fifth game.
    23:41
    Yeah. So they're actually putting... Now, I don't know how many people have the problem. I'd be curious to find out how many people actually have it. And here's something I want. If you own a P3, reach out to us and tell us what your thoughts are and what your thoughts on the long-term last ability of the system. the one thing that I'm concerned with is this reminds me a little bit like a game system so and game systems have lifespans they do but I think that I think the hardware on these are upgradable because there are upgrading the hardware which is something that I think is is huge I know they've actually you know they have like the extra flipper that you can buy and the better you know the you know those type of things so there are ways of doing it but that would be one concern that i had about the long-term thing if you like truly hey you only have to have one of these because i don't know if you're going to have two of these things yeah i don't i don't but maybe if you want to if you want to cover cosmic cart racing against each other yeah no but i i think that it would be more of like i have multiple machines because most people when they buy one pinball machine what's the next thing that happens yeah another pinball machine because they realize wow it's not as fun if there's only one person who's able to play at once i think my overall takeaway from all of this uh multimorphic has a hit on their hands i think it's going to move units um in the marketing department excluding the pricing in the marketing apartment i think that multimorphic is a top three company when it comes to their presentation okay i think they've shown that they can do it better than some of the other traditional pinball companies yeah um the only ones i think that have done it better is jjp and stern at this point um and if you disagree with me let us know but honestly i'm gonna have to have examples because all i can think of cgc and how they released cactus canyon because that was not fantastic yeah that wasn't ready uh they yeah i we're not going to go back into that but that certainly was i i i basically was was sitting there and i almost turned to jeff t ellison like what was that like yeah like really so but overall congratulations jerry and company we're excited colin mccallipine our friend that's been on our show a couple times he's doing rules for the game So that's going to be exciting. Yeah. And Bowen Cairns also. Bowen Cairns, a top-level player who helped advise on Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle. So we're excited. Yeah. I certainly want to play it, and we will definitely return and report. Yeah, same. I agree. And it is March. I'm so stoked. This month is going to be so good. So good. You know, I still haven't bought my ticket. Can I just tell you how stupid the price – like the one flight that is perfect coming back to Utah, they want $750 for a round-trip ticket. Dang. So unless I want like some really random thing. That's why I told my son no because it was like $800. I was like, no, dude. To put it in perspective, I just bought round-trip tickets for my entire family to go to Florida in April. And the total amount of tickets for five people were like $2,000.
    27:22
    Well, my wife and I were thinking of taking the kids to California in May. Round-trip was going to be $1,300. I know. It's crazy. That's flying directly out of my city. which is impressive in my opinion. Yeah. I've got my notes next that Stern has pushed back their cornerstone.
    27:41
    Yeah. You know what? I, okay. Did anybody, did this surprise anybody? No, I, I actually, I, I was kind of wondering like, what are you doing? Like, why, why didn't you do this sooner?
    27:56
    It just felt like they were, They had such an aggressive schedule that it was hard. Yeah. Look at Elwin. He's consecutive. He's put out a game once a year almost on the dot. Yeah. And these people usually do take about 13 months, if not just a little bit more. Yeah. And here we're pushing. Like, when we talked to them at Expo, Rick Nagel had not had, like, a day off in, like, two years. Yeah. Because he's coding around the clock. Like, give these people – they need a break. Well, actually the issue is they can't keep up with production, and that's the bottom line. They can't keep up with demand. And they've increased their production by 25 percent, and they still can't keep up. They still can't. So right now it is so red hot that they are – I know I'm going way back in the weeds, but when Lionel Richie hit it big, they actually – he put out two albums. like back to back and ironically like he had two singles from the second album and then there was a single from the first album that that leapfrogged it and it's just one of those things where like why in the world would they have put out so much stuff because eventually you you do kind of trip over yourself yep and it feels like they were going so fast in there hey we always release these things we we have this machine but the demand increased exponentially and they just couldn't keep up well let's be honest they they've lost a designer they've gained a new designer yep um if if we do the math led zeppelin came out 15 months ago yeah in april and so i i could almost guarantee the next one was supposed to be richie and if everyone got bumped up three months that's really stepping on toes so and gomez gomez said he was designing one and so we can only assume right we can only assume that he that he's filling that niche that's that richie left well that's what i've been told i've been told that's what that's what he kind of announced on the last podcast he was on yeah that would make logical sense to say hey he's designing a game because that's basically how we got deadpool yeah so that's the problem too is gomez is a very busy man he's over a lot of things yeah and so it's hard to have i'm running a company by the way i also make pinball machines so exactly why not you know and so it makes sense not only because everyone's like well it makes sense that they're they're they're doing it right now i'm like it's because i think it's because they lost richie they've had a lot going on between insider connected new platforms working on spike three i mean they confirmed that at expo um i mean there's been There's a lot of irons in the fire right now. It feels appropriate. Yeah, it feels great. Yeah, I don't know if anyone's like, oh, come on. There's like, yeah. Yeah, why not? And someone had pointed out, too, this does not stop from vaults coming out or if a Kapow title comes out. Yeah, it does leave some openings for that. But do you really think that's going to happen? Because I don't. I can see a vault coming out. I think this is a catch-up because the vault is – the whole point of the vault is to keep the line running. Guess what? They have so much to keep the line running. They have people who are waiting. George Gomez is waiting for his Deadpool. The designer is waiting for the Deadpool. That tells you – Well, he doesn't work at the place that has a Deadpool there. I totally get it, but that tells you how red hot the demand is. Yes. No, the demand is – well, just think about it. like we've been sponsored by flipping out for a year and a half, two years now. And, and it used to be, I could call up Zach and say, Hey, what do you have in stock? And he'd give me a list and I'd say, send it to me this week. Yeah. Now it's, I'm on the wait list for six months. Well, and I will say, thankfully I, I've told Zach that I, I get almost every game. Yeah. And so I'm just like, just tell me what's available. And that's how I, you know, cause I, I want to, I want Zach to make sure that he's able to do his full-time job, which is taking care of you guys. And I'm totally fine with waiting because I don't – so I just got my Mandalorian.
    32:16
    And I also – guess what? I just got my Iron Maiden at the end of last year. So three months ago, I got Iron Maiden that I ordered about a year ago. yeah so and honestly out of everyone that i feel the worst about for all this like the distributors were are really the ones that get the worst yeah and the reason being i'm going to explain this really quick is um i knew a new title's announced so mandalorian let's take mandalorian uh mandalorian was announced and then it took six months for the second run to even happen yeah so that first run sold out people are getting their games within the first two months well six months later L1's Godzilla gets announced. How many people went this game looks so much better than Mandalorian. I still don't have a time or a date on when Mandalorian shows up. I will cancel my order with Mandalorian and then buy Godzilla. How many distributors just lost? Because a lot of them don't take deposits.
    33:15
    And so they lost all that Mando money right there on the spot and their buying window just got pushed back another four months or whatever so a lot of these distributors i mean there's there's still people buying so yeah they're still buying and i will argue that i mandalorian is it's still a great game it's a it's a different game than godzilla absolutely and we we all recognize how great godzilla was because it was awarded game of the year by the pinball industry awards yes um and i agree with that i i voted for it as the game of the year uh but i i think mandalorian is really fun yeah it's it's a different it's a different style game though so it's really fun i don't know honestly if personally i would ever own it i was in on one and then i went and played it a handful times and i i hate to say this but i'm kind of getting to the point where l1's the standard and if it can't meet l1 i i just feel like for what i'm paying for a pinball machine now sure it has to match that price yeah and so and i know that people are like well if you buy it you can turn around and sell it you're not losing money well that's not the whole point of the story it's like my my basement i mean obviously i could add more to this basement uh but typically one of my machines have to go out for a machine to come in right there there's only so much to so much purchasing power that the average pinball collector has correct and they're still expensive i look at my pinball machines i'm like do i want to lose one of these games for a game that i'm gonna somewhat like that's probably just gonna be turned on and sold the next time and now one comes out or something that that i really want you know so that's kind of where we're at at least for me yeah i i am i'm still i have been so busy i had mandalorian delivered and i still i still it's been so cold outside and we are about to start a remodel on our house. So I'm nice. So I'm nervous about that. And so basically my garage is doubling as a, as a, an accessory game room and it's just been so cold that I haven't been able to go out there and unbox it. Yeah. But yeah, it's I, I'm still excited enough about it. The, I, I'm, I want to definitely play cause I think it'll be fun, but yes, certainly something that's different. They need to slow it down. They need to be able to release more. You certainly don't want to out-punt your coverage. And if people are waiting so long for a game, then they are fickle. They will move on. Yes. So I think this is a brilliant move, and there's two reasons. We've been talking to Travis Murie of Marvloco slash TripleDrain, and really Stern only had two options. This is what he said to us. It was either a pushback cornerstone and catch up on your backlog or be cancel everything that's been order right now and start fresh right now. And yeah, you're not going to do that. That would be that would be a dumpster fire.
    36:30
    Because really, when you order, you're not locked into a price. I paid more for my Iron Maiden than when I ordered it. And I get it. That's how a business is. but well and that's the other thing too it's like i kind of get nervous because i'm like i'd rather i want a new pinball machine in my house before the price goes up again i mean this is becoming a yearly thing this is not well this was a big jump godzilla was a big jump a big jump um the every other title was like yeah we're raising 100 bucks which i mean 100 bucks okay i'm not discounting 100 bucks but it's not gonna kill your purchase 800 bucks and may kill your purchase so but everything's increased i just went got a haircut yesterday yeah my haircut increased 50 within the last two months just because they realized they were losing money they just inflation's killing us all i pay so much on haircuts i know you do so as my hairdresser's like oh josh you just got thick luscious hair yeah yeah but i think this is a family-friendly podcast but i'm going to tell you to go something yourself so but the nice part is when we talk to go as an expo they are doing other things to make sure that they can start produce even more than what they're producing right now because they they see that they're not keeping up with demand and this pushing a cornerstone back is a temporary fix yeah once they start saying more new cornerstones the orders are going to come flooding back in again. So they've got to be, um, when we talked to him, they said they're going to do two new CNC machines so they can keep up with, with play fields and, and all their wood cutting stuff. So Stern's on it. Like they're, they're adapting for the future. And it sounds like business is good for them right now, even with price increases and with product delays. So.
    38:28
    Okay. So, uh, so I did open rush. Do you want to talk about that? Uh, yeah, let's go for it. Dun, dun, dun, dun. So I didn't have much time. It was freezing outside. The people who usually come – my buddies who come over to help me open, they couldn't come over. So I actually just opened the machine myself, which is kind of interesting to try to open a machine yourself. I do it all the time, dude. Okay. Well, all right. Well, the last three I've bought. Yeah. But trying to lower it down, then raise it up. So you can do it. Yeah. But two things that happened. One of my drop targets wasn't working. And the funny thing is. Oh, that was funny. You said the video. It's like. And it just breaks right off there. And the funny thing is, Raymond, you know, one of the coders, one of the co-coders with Tim Sexton, he had messaged me. He's like, hey, have you loaded .89 yet? I said, no, I'm about to. I'm going to do it tonight. He's like, okay. So I want you to look and see if there are things that are interesting or confusing about it. Because and I actually texted him. I was like, so the drop targets, do you have to activate the drop targets? Because one of them isn't going down. And he's like, what are you talking about? So I sent him a picture and I nailed this target and it just goes nowhere. And he's like, yeah, that's that's not good. Take your finger in the video and you're pushing it and refuses to go now. Yeah, and I'm pushing it. So so my friend came over and we lifted it up last night. and I was like, yeah, I need to work on this drop target. We looked and this is an amazing easy fix. One, the spring that pulls down the drop target had fallen off. Oh, nice. So that was actually a total easy fix. You've put it back on and it was good to go. So you're telling me when the drop target stay is standing for too long to consult your local physician? Yes, yes, exactly. Well, he wasn't anesthesiologist. Yeah. So, uh, so yes, that, that's how that worked. Uh, that was able to do it. Now, another thing I just want to know anybody else who has rush the, when I launched the ball, it rattles a little bit in the shooter lane. So I don't know if that's, if that's my game specifically or now in fairness, it, it's not fully leveled correctly because it's in my garage. And so I haven't really had time to set it up. So it could just be a leveling thing, but I'm just wondering if anyone else is having that issue.
    40:55
    A couple other things that this was more of a revelation. I'm going to share it with you, my friends, because I had no idea that this even existed.
    41:05
    I was asking, I am not a great code guy just because I'm not a tournament guy. I just don't have time for it. But I love playing him at home So I was asking Raymond about hey some of the rules Hey does this work Does this work And he said well have you looked at the PDF of the rules
    41:25
    And I said, what? So if, yeah, I had no idea that this even existed. So perhaps you guys know this and I'm late to the party. But if you actually go to the Stern website and just click on a game and all the way back to Turtles, if you click on it, I'm actually on their site right now, and I clicked Rush, and it goes down, shows the Pro Premium LE, and then you keep cycling all the way to the bottom, and it actually has all the PDFs, the feature matrix, then it has the trailers, blah, blah, blah. At the very bottom, there's something that's called Rush Rule Sheet.
    42:07
    And so you can click on it, and it actually goes through and tells you, hey, the song selection, the skill shot, the song modes, and then tells you about each mode and then tells you about everything you do in the mode. And then you have, oh, time machine multiball. So this is brilliant, by the way. Like for them to actually put this out, shout out to the stern gods for figuring out that this is what modern machines need. Because the rules are way too complicated to, again, I just don't have the time to figure it out on my own. So this is the best thing. So if you have one of those new sterns from Turtles On, then you can actually just go look at the rules on their website. Yep. So, Josh, did you know this was a thing, or am I the only one who's late to the party? No, I've used it for turtles. Okay. So you did know. So you just didn't share. I just – I guess I assumed. But you know what assumed means. Assumed everybody knows. Yeah. So that was a revelation to me. So I do really appreciate that. And that will definitely level up my abilities. I would love it, by the way, if they want to go back and do it for all the other games. Like Jurassic Park would be perfect on that. And Iron Maiden would be great on that, too. So, yeah. No, I agree. Deadpool, at least it's straightforward enough that even a simple game player like me can figure that out. But it's great. So my question is, have you put up a high score on Rush yet? Yes. Okay, so if you put up a high score, you've obviously seen a good chunk of the game. Or you've seen, not a good chunk, but you've been able to play it to get... Enough, yes. Yes. So I want to know, what are your thoughts on Rush? Try to put your bias aside. Okay. It is definitely a Borg game. Yes. in that it's not impossible. However, it will beat you up if you don't hit a shot.
    44:14
    So the shots are findable. That is one thing that is great about this. I felt that Turtles was a little hard to find the shots. So I was a little nervous. And again, that's more of a declaration on my playing ability more than Borg's layout. but um i found these shots i can hit them and i can find them there are there are two scoops in this and so the scoops do slow down play for a minute now that can be okay really in a board game because board games are so fast and they can be fast and brutal that it does give you a moment to pause yep um the uh it it is fun that the wire forms are fun to watch and they come really high i'm surprised at how high they are in the game that uh they overlap i have the le so there's the third wire form that goes to the right flipper yeah um it feels like it can if you are on and you're hitting the shots and it's and you are locked in it can be a very long playing smooth shooting game if you are off a little bit though man that thing just if you brick it it goes right down the middle or right out and it is it is unforgiving um so this will be a great game to level up your skills and also i am so excited to get the deep dive into these rules because having a tim and raymond on it are it's it's it will be an amazing rule set and we are looking for those deep rules to keep our interest right so i think that it was very wise to put tim and uh ray day on this on this game and i think um a lot of people that can be concerned with code's going in a good direction now. There's still some shortcomings, but I feel like this is a great showing by Tim and Rayday of rules knowledge, nostalgia to throwback rules.
    46:32
    I think they've done a great job. And even hearing, because a lot of people kind of groaned when it first came out, and it was like, oh, we got two really high players. That's going to be nothing about, it's all going to be about the the code itself like it's going to be just like tournament rules and and some people like we want to experience the game and i've been talking to more and more people and they're like wow the the nuance and the throwbacks and the stuff that's tied in with the game yet shows other games is just amazing yeah and so i've heard nothing but good from it We are seeing the emergence of the next generation of great pinball coders.
    47:17
    And I know that we're early a little bit because this is Tim's third game. Raymond came on to Stern a little bit after Tim. He's helped out on a few other games.
    47:32
    They're kind of co-pilots on this one with Tim taking the lead. But, wow, I am really impressed with the thought and care that has gone into this rule set. And I know that it will only get deeper. Yep. And the presentation is great. Like, if you get this game, you have to get the expression like kids. Yeah. Because, and I have said, after I got Led Zeppelin, this needs to be standard on any rock game. and so you know what Mike Vinnikor did with that is great um it feels very theme appropriate yep so I I do like what they've done so yes it's a fun game it will definitely stick around for a long time I am super excited to get the topper I I've heard it's I I have no idea what the topper is but i've heard it's really cool so um it's a great package and uh yeah i i understand people who are like yeah it's rush isn't my favorite music well i don't know how many people loved iron maiden i don't know how many people loved metallica i it's it's very pinball friendly music which that was one thing that concerned me about rush because it seems a departure from typical pinball music but it really works personally me i don't know if i'll ever own a rush um i still need to come out and play your le i've played it pro i've enjoyed it i said i'm just kind of at the point where i don't want to keep moving pinball machines in and out of the house yeah yeah no and i get it and i i think that it's it is great to uh it's great to have music pins that are a little different and really this is a this is kind of a departure from your typical uh you know your acdc your aerosmith the metallica yeah this is a little it aside from primus i guess but they this is uh this is a little bit more of a mature music option speaking of aerosmith uh really quick side tangent that i don't have on our notes we got a shout out on instagram um i i couldn't find the post once i went back to look for it um the lady's name was julie uh she gave us a shout out and thanked us for reminding her how awesome pinball could be i don't know how she got onto our podcast i don't know if it was ed robertson or what but she lives out in salt lake and she went out they had a night of theater because after listening to us, you talk about theater and us talk about pinball. They went and found some pinball and they played and they loved it. And she's like, I want them to play, get some Mom Rock pinball machine. Okay. So I'm pretty sure this is actually one of the nurses at my hospital. Nice. Yeah.
    50:28
    But one of the Mom Rocks she said was Aerosmith. And I said, well, you're in luck because they do have an Aerosmith pinball machine. Yeah. And so she actually after she played that, she messaged me. She's like, is there a Guns N' Roses pinball machine around here? I'm like, well, my friend has one. Nice. So shout out to Julie. She's a great sedation nurse. So awesome. See, spreading the joy of pinball. Spreading the joy. Now, if she really wants a pinball machine, she wants a Brene Brown pinball machine. So you can get your therapy on while you're playing pinball. Nice. So nice. I really just I want to mention this really quick we've lost a lot of legends in the hobby and since we last spoke we lost Barry Alsler if you can please help out his family I know that people want to make a commentary on the health system but we do want to remind you Scott especially that Barry did work for Deep Root and they have mentioned that a lot of their life savings was kind of eaten up by working for Robert Mueller. And we just want to help them out. And the lack of coverage that that offered when Deep Root went sideways. Well, and Barry's had Counselor for a while now. I mean, it's been pretty rough. And so if you can help out, I think the fund is still open.
    51:53
    Go ahead, help. You know, Barry's one of those figures that you could argue and say that actually helped save pinball during the 80s. It was his design space shuttle that re-indicorated pinball in the arcades.
    52:08
    He was a really nice guy. I don't know anyone that ever talked to him and said that he was too busy for him or whatnot. He always wanted to talk pinball.
    52:18
    Barry was a great guy. And so Teal listed a great job. If you haven't listened to his most recent pinball profile, I think we all agree we're done with doing retrospectives. And it's not because we don't want to do them. It's just we've had too many in the last couple of years. And Jeff does a better job than we do. Yes. Jeff knows these people on a personal level. And like he said, between losing Mark with Marco, Lyman Sheets, and now Barry Osler. And this has all been within, what, four months? A couple months. Yeah. And so, you know, my favorite Barry Osler game is Junkyard. I know it's kind of kooky. I know it's kind of random. I don't know what it is. I've always connected with that game ever since I got into the hobby. I just made shooting toast at a dog chasing a woman that got out of a bathtub. I don't know. It's just, it's a, it's a really fun kooky game. And I think that kind of sums up a lot of Barry's games. They were really fun. They had really good shots. Um, and they're all almost different from each other. You know, if you got the brutality of Dracula, the goofiness of, uh, junkyard, uh, the fun filled carnivals, of hurricane um i mean pinball how iconic is it pinball and jackpot um it just it stinks because it feels like a lot of people were excited after hearing barry go to highway and then moving on to deep root and then finally making a break at a company that's made a pinball machine that proves that they can do the things that they've they've said they're going to do and then we sadly lose him after a couple weeks of his announcement of being an American pinball. And so you will be missed, Barry.
    54:04
    Yep. Yeah, it continues to be rough. So hopefully we're on the tail end of all these issues. But hopefully we can get back to normal life and get back to the... I'm looking forward to Texas because it seems like it's going to be one of the first ones that feels like it's a post-COVID show. And I know that COVID is still going on, but it seems like this will be the first one that it'll feel like it's closer to what life used to be. I agree. So I am looking forward to that. Josh and I are going to be there. We're still, like everybody else, we're still a little backlogged on our swag.
    54:50
    I've got a little bit coming. We will have a little bit for Texas. I have stickers for everybody. So whoever wants a sticker, come up and hit me up, and I'll give you a few. I have a funny T-shirt idea that I'm going to kick to you after the show, Scott. Okay, this will be interesting. If I can get some of them done before Texas. If not, oh well.
    55:11
    Teaser? I had a funny, funny idea. Okay. Let's talk TPF. We're definitely going to be there. we've been asked to present an award for the Twippies so that'll be cool this is our second time doing that we did the topper two years ago right yeah I think so yeah topper's perfect so we've put our request in for which one we would like to present if it happens awesome if not well we'll still be there to help the award for the best rush pinball machine exactly yeah that's it like I said I gave my list to a person the other day of what I want to do at TPF. Really? It's just meet people. Yeah. I'm not going to play in the tournament. I'm actually – I am there to experience the show. So if you see me and if you want to grab a drink or get a bite to eat or something like that, we are happy to spend time with anybody who's interested. Well, I half wonder if this is going to be a quick show because Expo is four days long. Yeah. We're flying in Friday. So starting Friday night and then we are, I'm flying out Saturday. Well, I still haven't bought my ticket just because I've been hoping that prices drop a little bit. Um, but, uh, I'll be flying out Sunday afternoon. So basically 48 hours. That's it. Yep. So we're excited, uh, be excited to finally meet like people like Ed Van Der Veen for the first time. Yeah. You know, he used to be the cohost of super awesome pinball show. Love Ed. He's a cool dude. get to finally meet the guys Travis Meary from Triple Drain we got to meet Tom and Joel at Expo Zach Menny's actually not going to be doing his flipping out stuff down there so if you see him you get to hang out with him so there's going to be a lot of people there sounds like RB France is coming all the way over from overseas oh nice they'll be there so a lot of cool people are going to be there I'm stoked The nice part is we actually got A room opened up in the MDC suite So we'll be staying in the hotel In the convention center But definitely if you are around Please message us And we'd love to catch up At least say hi, take a picture, shake hands And if we have time we'd love to go and grab Some meat or play a game or two Definitely I'm excited for TPF I'm excited for Weird Al to play there I was excited for Toy Story, but now the rumor is Toy Story is not going to be at TPO. I don't know what to say.
    57:54
    Or sorry, Jersey Jacks game number five? Okay, sure, but like we they can't say, oh yeah, it's totally going to be announced. That's not how anything works anymore. So, you know, I was wondering about Cactus Canyon getting revealed about Expo, and then I was like, yeah, I guess it's probably not going to. And then it was. So, you know, it's okay.
    58:20
    It'll be fun to see it, but really, I'm actually more interested to play Weird Al. I'm more interested to play Weird Al than I am to play Toy Story. So I want to do some trivia with you really quick. Okay, go ahead. So let's go through the rumors of what we know of Toy Story for right now. It's Pat Lawler's last game. Supposedly he's retiring after this one. We don't know if that's 100% true, but that is what we're hearing. At least retiring as a designer. correct right um this game is uh obviously toy story is what we're hearing i haven't heard any other rumor for a theme other than toy story and it's been one of those ones that was announced like two or three years ago yeah it's i mean it's like guns and roses it's the it's the worst kept secret and correct um there was if i remember correctly there was like a disgruntled employee when they left, they kind of leaked some misinformation.
    59:15
    Anywho, the interesting trivia part I was going to say to you is I can almost guarantee this game will at least have three flippers. I know that's kind of like a whoop-de-doo thing, but we know it's not going to be a typical fan layout. And you know the reason I can almost guarantee that? What? Do you know how many two-flipper games Pat Lawley has made in his 30-plus year career?
    59:40
    people sitting at home scott's thinking right now if you know it start screaming it at your phone at whatever it may be or if you don't know start thinking about the pat lawler games you know obviously it's not adam's family that one has three twilight zone has them four like has he ever has he ever done a two flipper that is a great question i went through the list before we started recording okay he has one two flipper game in his 30 plus year career and it's one you never gonna guess because i didn't even realize he made this game huh you ready for this csi oh geez yeah oh man that used to be at lagoon i think and that was his last game he made for stern yeah there's yeah it's it was not a memorable one but that was also the dark days of stern That was 2005 to 2010. So, no, those were the life support years. I don't think CSI is a bad game. It's not like it doesn't stand out. Nobody's looking for a CSI. It's like 24. Nobody's looking for a 24. Maybe I bring home a CSI to my wife, and that's what gets her into pinball. Yeah, no.
    60:59
    But, no, so I can – how many games has he made over his career? I can 95% guarantee that Pat Lawler is going to have at least a 3-4 flipper game. That's just his style. He'll want to go out with a bang. Yep.
    61:16
    It's time for another upper play field, so he'll be probably doing that, is my guess. Okay. The signature, this is a signature Borg and a signature Pat Lawler. I don't know who did it first. I think Pat Lawler did it first, but the five lanes at the bottom, you've got the two in lanes with the out lane on one side with an in lane and out lane on the other you know i okay if there's one thing in pinball that i i hate it's the double in lane because i am a i am a wizard when it comes to hitting that middle post and having it bounce to the out lane yep like every time i can do that like when when i was playing turtles it would bounce like every time it came out of the lair it would bounce on that thing and go out yep and that i kind of feel the same way i like let kind of get rid of the double in lane i think we've exhausted that option yeah unless if there's like a unless if it's used in a cool way and that's usually in a standard body a wide body is a little more i think a lot of space anyway um but seriously standard body guys let's i don't know if it's your signature i guess whatever but i'm just not a huge fan of that unless if there's specific feeds to those in lanes okay so here's another question i have okay what is on the pin side top 100 without looking okay what is one through five uh one is medieval madness okay two is godzilla okay three is jurassic park four is i don't know four four is guns and roses and five is attack from mars okay actually i was pretty i was really impressed you didn't get the you didn't get the order right but you got four out of the five oh dang so i i was i yeah you actually did better than i would you won the last time i looked to the top 500 of Pinside? Yeah, I don't know. Months ago. Okay, so I actually haven't done either. So this was interesting. And usually when a game comes out, it shoots to number one because there's like 10 people. Then it slowly creeps down. So Godzilla is number one. Oh, wow. Godzilla is number one with 519. So that's actually a pretty solid rating. Yeah. uh medieval madness number two attack from mars number three jurassic park number four deadpool number five oh wow that yeah i've never guessed that surprised me that deadpool jumped up so much so you take out gnr for me put in deadpool i would have had yeah yeah exactly so again that's pretty solid so if you look at um okay so the four elwynn games all four of them are in the top 15 yep so you have really what's what what is l1's worst game at this point you know what it's according to the ratings i know it's objective but avengers infinity quest what do you feel like you own all four of his games what is his weakest um you know i'd probably agree with that even though i was thinking because i was i was wondering at some point i need to sell an l1 and i was wondering the other day about what game would i sell and i thought you know what maybe avengers and then i went and played it and i'm like dang this is fun to shoot it is a wonderful shooter it's funny because i was feeling the same way i was like if i have to get rid of a premium yeah at some point in time which premium's going out the door yeah and and i'm like well i haven't played avengers in forever and i i logged in to my insider connected and i started flipping dang this feels good yeah i need every shot feels good the one thing i need though is i need to fix i need to get the captain marvel shot fix though oh next time i come over i'll do it for you dude you don't have to buy anything fancy i'll show you how to do it yeah because like mine works probably about 70 of the time which is still pretty good yeah but it's just enough that it just yeah if you hit that shot solidly and it gets jammed and like goes screaming down the middle it just frustrates me so um when i had colin mccall point over i had done the carlo carl d'angelo the bend it back yeah and he was hitting it like butter every time so then i thought well maybe it's just me and my shootings yeah but yeah if i i usually Colin was hitting 9 out of 10 on mine, too, but he's also a top player. I bet mine back, and it does great now.
    66:16
    So long as I had to hit it on the fly, usually. I've got to hit a Black Widow and then hit it on the fly for me to actually do it. But no, and that's the funny part. So his weakest game is Avengers, and it's number 15. It's number 15. Yeah, so wow. I mean, that's really what's the weakest. What's the weakest part about Avengers? Is it some people complain it's too easy to shoot?
    66:39
    Yeah. And it just depends on how much your outlanes are. So if you really want if you want to make Avengers hard, you can open up the outlanes and it will be brutal. So I think I think the shortcoming with Avengers and it's not for me because I actually like this about Avengers is the complexness of the rule set. when you start adding in where gems go you know working up your combos to get your your balls locked so you can have your portal locks to then progress all the way through to get your your victory laps per gem you know which gems help you get through which other gems i think a lot of people go look at that and they go that's just way too much information for me to deal with because you look at drastic park was his number one until godzilla was released and the thing about jurassic park that i've come to learn over the years is there is a simplicity to it there's like an elegant simplicity but a lot of depth there yeah and i know it sounds like an oxymoronic statement but what i mean by that is is when you play jurassic park um it's you start a paddock on you know the basic of it if i'm teaching this to a new person you start a paddock once you start that paddock you're rescuing people you have giant flashing orange shots to say rescue once you've done that enough you can then set the trap once you set the trap you go for the dinosaur and as you go further into the game it progresses and adds just a little more to that you gotta do one more thing to capture the dinosaur and I think that's what people love about Jurassic Park there's an elegant simplicity but then the depth comes from control room comes from the t-rex events and you can stack those interchangeably um one at a time essentially and i think that's what people love about dracet park yeah and i would argue that deadpool what has made it so great is it's actually if you want a simple rule set get Deadpool it really is not that complex of a rule set but they were really smart and saying hey you want you want to do the battle go ahead I mean there's you have the you know you have the three battles and then you have the boss battles and then yeah you can go on and move on but really if you want to but each battle if you want to make it more interesting do the team-ups Like try to get Dazzler, try to get Colossus, try to get Wolverine. And so it really does step up. One thing I found and I totally forgot about this because I just barely bought the upgrade stuff for it. So I put the Ninja Star Pop cap bumpers on. And I opened it up because I was going to put the shaker motor in. And the look down, I totally forgot that it has a cassette in the bag. Oh, yeah. I totally forgot that. So I actually need to pull up my cassette player, which I still have. Nice. Anyway, I don't know. I just found that interesting, just pulling that up.
    69:58
    So it'll be – the good news is for all of you who are counting, the top ten, which used to be completely dominated by Bally Williams of the 90s. okay i'm gonna i'm gonna list off um the top 15 godzilla medieval madness attack from mars jurassic park deadpool monster bash uh iron maiden l virus house of horrors twilight zone guns and roses metallica pirates of the caribbean lord of the rings stranger things avengers affinity quest so the only ones that are on the list from that era are Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars, Monster Bash, and Twilight Zone.
    70:42
    So 11 of the top 15 are new games. So that just confirms how great of an era of pinball we're living in. I totally agree. And I want to point something else out too is 1 through 5, all, whether it be Williams, whether it be Stern, I feel like they've hit on the cylinders of, like they're starting to recreate that williams magic from the 90s that we talk about that's why i brought the simplicity of jurassic park i think godzilla is that same way too you have a elegant simplicity to the rule set that has a lot more depth as you dig into it and it's fun it's fun it's funny it's funny yeah comedic gold on something like jurassic park obviously doesn't have the comedic gold like the other four do it's still they're still funny like i i still laugh about some things like when you see keith running from the dinosaur i laugh about that deadpool is hilarious yep and godzilla kicking his kicking his son back in the rubber suit so obviously we're doing something right yeah uh i i think like i said i don't know maybe we do kiss keith ellen's butt i don't think so i think we give the man the respect that he deserves i think he's come into an industry and has revamped it into a way that he has now become the standard and everyone's trying to play catch up. And, but I think we're starting to see that with new coders. We're starting to see that with different design angles. I mean, it's funny cause we joked about, you know, we talked about word out the first of the podcast and I'm looking at this and I'm like, the first thing I thought of was like the butt pretzel. Cause you see the shot where you shoot it through. And if you hold the flipper up, it keeps on going. I mean, that's just something that was recently created within the last i doubt they were hanging out at spooky and saw that one's like we're just going to add that into our game you know uh there were some elements from octoberfest in word l i mean there's these concepts that we're starting to see that people are starting to grasp onto and love and there's nothing wrong with that like when something's good we want to we've really re-experienced it in a game and so uh i think the future is still as bright and maybe we've just hit the peak of it and we're starting to dig down because pinball wasn't thriving for almost a decade. And then we kind of hit Wizard of Oz and ACDC and Metallica and these games started pumping back in what pinball could be, not only for location, but the beauty of what it could be at home. And now we're starting to really dig deep into what it can be at home. And so it's wonderful. Pinball's in a great place right now. Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to Texas. I think we'll be able to squeeze another episode in before Texas. Definitely. But that's pretty much what I have today. And I'm excited. And I'm excited to see where all the companies are going.
    73:50
    I think they're all in a decent direction. I think the trajectory is a little different for each company.
    73:58
    But I still feel that they're all on a positive upslope, the major companies. Well, and my argument is the weakest outing that's out there right now, whatever your mind just went to, think of that game. And compare it to almost any 2000s game except for Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party, Tron. Yeah, well, Tron was later. I thought it was 2008. Was it 2010? It might have been 2010. But my point being is that 2000 to 2009 range kind of leaves you wandering. Life support. Yeah. so that game you just thought of that was just released in the last two years or whatever from company XYZ would you prefer you might not be a fan of that game but would you prefer to play that game versus 2011 promise 2011 there's really four games in that entire decade that I would be willing to own what four are they besides Lord of the Rings and Simpsons since Pinball Party um i spider-man's actually still a fun game it's a big spider-man yes and pirates of the caribbean and i own i own three of them the only one i don't own is lord of the rings you own the greatest hits of 2000 yeah and isn't that crazy like i don't even i you can't even like the last two years i can't uh you can't encapsulate those in two years in four games so would you rather own XYZ versus Austin Powers. I will never own an Austin Powers.
    75:43
    Which is sad because I really do love those movies. The first movie I thought was really fun. The other one's not so much. Which is funny because my favorite's Goldmember. I just can't stand the cross jokes. It's just too over the top. The first one was funny. Now I can see you're nuts. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know.
    76:05
    So anyway, hey, I also got I randomly stumbled into a speaking of CGC. I randomly stumbled into an arcade, an ultimate arcade two plus. Yes. So now if anyone knows how to get an expansion pack for it, let me know. But I was able to buy that. And so that was a lot of fun. My kids finally coming out to the arcade now. So anyway, good times. And, you know, I know that people said that we've been hitting on all cylinders for interviews lately. Thank you for the nice comments. It's awesome. We've had a lot more interaction this last four months with the community than we have for a while. And I don't know if it's because of the interviews we're doing or whatever, but we've had a lot of people reach out. Thanks for that. Thanks for Tealos for mentioning on final round. Dude, seriously, Tealos is like the interview champion. He's the nicest guy in the world, by the way. Like, genuinely. yes he might he might seem like uh uh your favorite c word from australia towards martin but yeah but he's genuinely a nice dude and uh and dude his interviews have been fantastic if you haven't listened to the josh sharp the two two two two two day oh yeah uh fantastic interview and there was a lot of hidden nuggets in there.
    77:29
    Like I said, go check out Pinball Profile. Go check out Final Round. You know what? Oh, I almost forgot. Okay. We have not congratulated the Pinball Show. Oh, yeah. Welcome to the club, guys. Congratulations to your Pinball Industry Award. And I – For excellence in podcasting. I actually voted for them. Full declaration, I was like, they earned it. And certainly check them out. They're certainly awesome. So I got to harp on one thing just really quick. Okay, go ahead. You guys have to be a little bit more transparent with the rules. And maybe you have been, but it was really funny because someone reached out to us after the fact. And they're like, man, it just sucks that you guys couldn't win again this year. Like, I would have voted for you, but you wouldn't have won because that's against the rules. And I was like, wait, what? Is it? uh is it like a hall of fame so we're the hall of fame baby the hall of fame portion is so any of the games and the pinball machines that are there right yeah yeah put in the hall of fame that cannot be but the problem is is i guess some of the people that was on the committee did not know that and so we got almost no votes because they thought we couldn't win it anyway so oh my gosh i had no idea on that that is hilarious but anyway hey we still love doing this and no it's good i I just thought it was hilarious because, like I said, no, it's very well-deserved to the pinball show. I did not vote for you guys. Sorry. But I voted final round. Seriously, that reach round. Again, final round is great too. But they made it into the – they were nominated.
    79:09
    Backbox Pinball Podcast, awesome show, Lauren and Becca. You guys do a great job every time. It was awesome to see you guys nominated. I mean there's a lot of fantastic pinball podcasts out there. And it's great to see them being recognized. a lot of us do this out of the kindness of our hearts. I don't know what you want to call it. We do it for fun. We do it because it's a great break. It's a great break. It was funny because I talked to someone and I can't remember exactly what got brought up and they're like, oh, there's just too many pinball podcasts out there. I was like, what? Maybe you know something I don't know, but they've kind of fallen off this last six months. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Um, so I don't know. And then they proceeded to say, there's not that many streamers. And I'm like, Whoa. Yeah. I felt like we have an abundance of streamers. It's like, it's like we moved from podcasts to streamers. So, yeah. Uh, anywho, long story short, we're excited for TPF. Yeah. Congratulations. We're looking forward to it. And so seriously hit us up. We'd love to see it. And so we'll have to, we'll have to take our crystal so that way we can have it with. Yeah, exactly. I'm just going to wear it around my neck. Yeah. Flava Flav.
    80:27
    Why not? So. Cool, man. I guess if that wraps it up. Yeah, I think so. Okay. All right. Well, if you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. If you would like to get a hold of us on the socials, we are at Loser Kid Pinball on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, all your favorite sites. we're not on tiktok because i really don't have a face for i have a face for podcasting okay yeah uh no thank you everyone that that reaches out i'm sorry i've been a little bit more quiet i did have a couple people reach out i was like i haven't heard from you in a while and you haven't talked very much honestly scott knows what's going on in my life it's been an interesting two months yeah it really has no but you know what we're we're here for each for everybody and again reach out to people it's hard for everybody and we just want to make sure that um this is a break for everybody including us so we we appreciate anybody who is willing to listen to us so definitely and so appreciate those that reached out um honestly i probably won't tell you what's going on anyway if you do reach out but i will appreciate you can reach out so like i said the only only two people know outside of my family i think scott and exact to be entirely honest yeah So, well, yeah.
    81:47
    Yeah. If I were to choose one other person to talk to, it'd be him. Yeah. Isn't he like a psychologist? Yeah. He's a licensed clinical psychologist. Yeah. So he's heard it all. Yeah. Anyway. Hey, seriously, we love you guys. Thanks for listening. And we'll talk to you in two weeks. Talk to you in two weeks.
    82:14
    Thank you.