third time's a charm okay and welcome to the second episode of the spinner is lit pinball podcast tonight i have a very special guest and he's a professional cabinet maker by trade who's going to talk to us about cabinet repairs and restoration welcome to the show chris bannister Well, thank you, Spencer. Hey, let's start off about pinball. How'd you get into pinball? I got into pinball through my neighbor and a mutual friend of ours. That would be Mr. Eric Neff, also known as Cheddar. We first moved into the neighborhood. Him and his wife had invited us over, and we got to talking about things. And he's like, hey, do you like to play pinball? And I said, sure. As a kid, I played pinball at Pizza Place all the time, but I hadn't played in years. So we went back to the game room, and it didn't take long for me to get really, really bit with the bug. And just a few weeks later, I picked up my first game. Yeah, what was that first game? Black Knight 2000, which, by the way, has the best soundtrack of all of pinball. I tend to agree. And it's a Steve Ritchie game. You can't go wrong. And I played it at your house. And it's awesome. It is a great game. And yeah. And I brought it home and I parked it in my kitchen. Believe it or not, my wife wasn't thrilled. And I parked it in there with the promise that I'd, in a month or two, get to remodeling the kitchen. So she grudgingly agreed. And over the course of a few days, I noticed her starting to play it more and more. and uh then she's like hey you know this pinball thing's pretty good we should get some more of these and uh it's now we have a quite a collection yeah you do man you got an awesome collection and uh i always enjoy coming over and playing it uh so how did you get into cabinet making as a trade um it's got to be a genetic thing to a certain degree uh i grew up with my dad being a cabinet maker for 27 years or so. And I remember being a kid and going to various cabinet shops that he had and playing in the sawdust and hanging out, you know, because my mom and my dad would, you know, both be working there. And when I was a teenager, I got a job at a cabinet shop here in Lodi that my dad worked at. And I started at the very bottom. And that was, well, years ago now and uh now i own my own shop and uh do all kinds of uh fun projects yes some very fun projects um down the road here probably after we do the show i gotta post pictures of your pin bot which uh is the nicest pin bot i have ever seen and you did a you just you you didn't do a new cabinet on that you just uh uh did re-stenciling on that repainting uh yes i i did uh a rather extensive uh bit of structural work to it uh and what could essentially be classified as uh nearly auto body work uh because i i was going for uh the nicest one that anyone had ever seen so uh it's it's an original cabinet it's the original cabinet for the game it's just um it's covered and it's like better than new yes it is yes it is and and you did custom paint on i mean as far as custom colors that match the sides of the game the red and the blue if i recall yeah John Youssi i when i'm when i'm doing a project especially i'm restoring something i want to do something just a little something that gives it uh its own little character you know something that kind of gives it its own little life, sets it apart. Oh, yeah, and that definitely does set it apart. So, yeah, so listeners, check out my Facebook page. After you listen to the show, I'll have some nice photos of the pinball up there you can look at. So if you get a pinball cabinet, you get a pinball game, and the cabinet's got some issues, uh what are the first steps to you know like um you know say you want to re-stencil a cabinet the paints are up on it how do you do this you know for us at home how do we do it well you know the the starting point for any restoration project be it for a pinball machine a car a house it's all the same you all got to start at the same point you got to stop stand back look at it you got to decide what it is that you really want to accomplish with it. You've got to form a plan. Without a plan, you're just going to tear it apart and it's going to set and it's going to set. And eventually you're going to get rid of it and let someone else figure it out. Got to start with a plan. So you get a machine, it's a little rough, you know, open it up, take a look at it, look at the, look at the joints of the head. The heads tend to get from, you know, being moved around, being shaken. They tend to be a little, a little wonky in their weight, uh, the joints loosen up, especially at a pinball machine. Um, you know, uh, the joints on the, uh, the main cabinet will, the leg bolt brackets will loosen up. Uh, the, the bottoms have this tendency to get blown out as well. Um, you know, and it's all normal stuff, but you gotta, you gotta give a real fair assessment as to where you're starting and where you want to end up. So that being said, I mean, if you want to get into, um, The most basic thing I think you can do is to, well, of course, tear it down. You want to get the boards out of it so that you're not dusting the boards, causing any damage to those. Take lots of photos. We all have these wonderful smartphones in our pockets now that hold thousands of photos. Take many, many photos. Give yourself all the help you can. Clear out the play field. Clear out the electronics. Um, and basically for a lot of machines, you're going to have scratches, dance, ding, stuff like that. But, uh, mostly the, the original plywood of the box is going to be in reasonably good shape unless it's been exposed to a lot of moisture, which is another topic altogether. Yeah. A project I have going right now is a, um, a Gottlieb genie that, uh, I, I don't know if someone used it as a boat or what, but it's, It is the worst cabinet I've ever seen, and every time I touch it, a part falls off. I've made a new box for that. Basically, you want to sand that old paint off. Paint, after 25, 30, or 40 years, tends to chalk up. The grain of the plywood tends to open up. You've got to sand it. You don't need a lot of specialty tools for that. various grits of sandpaper and a sanding block and some time. You can do a great job of sanding it down, but you want to get all the loose paint off of it. Then you can do basic filling of dents and dings, stuff like that. You can use wood putty. You can use Bondo, the actual Bondo that you use on cars But it all depends on how much you want to get into it and what your final picture is So if I was going to use Bondo, there'd be a little bit more work than sand or wood putty? Absolutely. Bondo is a much, much harder product. And another thing to keep in mind, too, is that pinball machines, the older ones, they were all, you know, paint sprayed over plywood. Well, over time, the grain of the plywood opens up, you know, so you have that nice wood grain on there. Now, depending on the picture you want to see, anywhere that you fill with either wood putty or Bondo, you're not going to have wood grain. It's going to be, you know, a spot. So if you're not planning on veneering over the entire cabinet, you're planning on just kind of sanding it down and giving it a paint job, you've got to keep that in mind, too, is that you don't want to spread wood putty on large portions of things because you'll fill the grain in spots. And then when you paint it, you'll see these smooth spots and then the wood grain spots. Got it. Got it. Wow, that's a good tip. Okay. So then say we've got it all puttied and sanded smooth down in the bare wood. Where do we go from there? We have, I guess, a base coat. Like I know when I had my pin bot, you could see it was planking real bad on one side. So if I was going to do that, if I still owned that game. So before I stencil, I would just do a black, basically like a gloss black. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it all depends on the color scheme for your machine. Um, you know, uh, as far as, as mixing up colors, I, I kind of like to leave the, the main body color, uh, original and, and then kind of play around with the other two or three, uh, you know, accent colors a little bit. Um, but yeah, you definitely want to, uh, you want to put a good undercoater on it. Now, living in California, we've got a lot of restrictions as far as the type of paint that we can get here and restrictions on usage and stuff like that. So pretty much we're sort of – all that we have at our disposal is acrylics here, which is okay because they've done a lot with acrylic paint over the last handful of years. But you want to coat it with a good undercoater primer, something that's a heavy build. and the nice thing is with the primer you're going to be sanding it so if you don't have access to your really nice spray equipment you can roll it on you know with a paint roller yeah with a paint roller exactly okay okay good to know see i had no idea about any of this stuff so this is good probably the best way to go with that would be a uh a foam uh roller they're inexpensive you know and they are disposable and like i said with your primer with your base coat it's a high build sort of stuff so you want it to build you want to get a couple good coats on there and you want to sand in between your coats it'll help smooth and fill things a little uh it'll give you a nice um you know a nice clean canvas to paint on now if your body color is say like on pin bot is black you can help yourself out by uh you go to the paint store and you're getting primer have them throw some black tin in it you know uh give your primer some some color uh you know conversely if you have a light colored machine uh you just leave it white okay so yeah you can always tint your uh undercoater to to be closer to your final color It'll help you. You'll require fewer coats of your color coat that way. Yeah, no, that totally makes sense, and I had no idea. I never would have thought about that, of tinting the primer. But see that right there, a perfect tip for anybody who's never done this before and is going to jump in and get in the garage and do it the first time. So that's awesome. Okay, so now right now you're building a whole new cabinet for Genie, if I recall correctly. Yes, I am. Okay, cool. When I bought it, it came encased, as I said, in a cabinet that, like I said, I think someone used it as a rowboat. I'm really not certain. I've seen the pictures, but I haven't actually seen the game yet. But I saw some pictures you posted. It looks pretty – I think there was actually some moss growing in one place. So the display door, being MDF and getting very, very wet, it expanded so that it actually swelled around the light bulbs. And it grew a rather impressive amount of mold. But the important thing is, with this machine, is I got it at a very good price. The play field is in fantastic shape. The boards are all in fantastic shape. And I think I'm going to have a winner once I get the cabinet finished up. So you're building this cabinet from the ground up from scratch. Ground up from scratch, brand new materials. What I'm doing, though, is I'm duplicating essentially materials for the most part and also construction techniques. So I'm using the same joinery that the factory used. I'm using, I think, a slightly better grade of plywood. I'm sort of picky when it comes to lumber just by habit so I'm using a better veneered grade of plywood but all the construction techniques are exactly the same and in reality it made for a sturdy box that thing is 40 years old or nearly 40 years old and it's still holding together even with you know being very very wet that's amazing and that's kind of a testament to the the quality of godly you know i mean they were known in that era still it's the kind of lack of pinball and uh it shows because a lot of those old games are still in really good condition i mean yeah you know never never restored unrestored games okay so so now you have a whole cabinet shop at your disposal that i do yeah and that does make things a little easier Okay, so for a guy like me, I've got a garage. I've got woodworking tools. I've got some electric and cordless hand saws. I've got a worm gear saw, and I always call it a steel saw, a circular saw. I've got a couple of sawzalls. I've got a drill press. I've got some saw horses. what else might I need if I was going to say, you know, I got to just blow it out cabin and I want to just build a new one. Could I do that in my garage? Absolutely. The one the one item that you will definitely need and very much appreciate is a good router. You can pick up a good router for one hundred and fifty dollars. You can get a reasonably good router for less. But, I mean, if it's something that you really want to get into doing, go buy the portacable router. Just a couple of router bits that you need, just rabbiting bits. Because the joinery on most all pinball machines is straightforward enough. They're all box joints. They're box glue joints. It's like a mortise and tenon at the corner. And some of them have a 45 degree but that not something we worrying too much about But essentially all you doing is you taking two three thick pieces of wood where they only have three of an inch contact and you're routing a mortise and a tenon, one on each side, and you're increasing the gluing surface. And really the reality is it's a gluing surface. It's a glue that's going to hold everything together. Nails are great. Screws are not. one thing that kills me when I see older machines that have gapping cabinet seams is somebody will go and run a couple of three inch screws through it which is the worst thing you can do because it's plywood and you're running a rather large chunk of steel into that plywood and all you're doing is separating it you know never ever run screws through a pinball machine right exactly and I've seen people do that so to do repairs especially around where the leg bolts going that's a notorious spot for that so um i would also need i actually have a decent router um i uh obviously we'd also need clamps you know clamps are good um the bar clamps especially you can you can pick up like 36 inch um bar clamps uh fairly inexpensively um actually garage sales i found to be a great place to get uh bar clamps a lot of the bar clamps that i have And I have them in all different sizes or just old, old ones that I picked up at garage sales for, you know, five bucks. Wow. No, that's a great tip. Love garage sales. So does my wife. Well, you know, my wife, Rusty. I actually, the last couple I bought, I did the 30-inchers. I actually bought it at Harbor Freight, you know, because I was there. Well, you know, the thing with Harbor Freight. Now, I have two ways of thinking about this. from my professional point of view, I'm like, oh, Harbor Freight tools, you know, generally not something that I'm going to buy. Why? Because I have to, you know, I have a shop, I have production, I have big, heavy equipment and heavy machinery. When I buy tools, I need them to be able to take a huge amount of abuse for a long time. The other side of that is if I'm just at home working on the garage on a project, it's really hard to beat some of the Harbor Freight tools, you know? Right, right. And for stuff like that, for, you know, hand tools, non-electrical, you know, I get stuff for my job all the time there because I can just burn through it and it pays for itself. But yeah, I've had good luck with stuff like clamps and things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And listen, you can never have too many clamps. Clamps are a wonderful, wonderful thing. So now talking about glue, what, I mean, obviously a wood glue, but is there, Is there a type you recommend? Personally, I would use a very particular brand. It's Tye Bond. It's an old brand that's been around forever. Tye Bond 2 or 3. Tye Bond 3 is an actually nearly waterproof type of glue. Its drying time is different. Its workability is a little different. I like Tye Bond 2. It's kind of a good general purpose. make wood stick together, not come apart kind of glue. And again, that's something you can get at Lowe's or Home Depot, and it's not very expensive, but definitely wood glue. And when you're using glue, don't be afraid to use the glue. Squeeze out is a good thing. When you clamp a joint together and you have glue squeeze out of the joint, that means you have put enough glue in the joint. um you know and tie bond uh you know cleans up with a wet rag so it's it's not a nice yeah yeah never be afraid to put glue in the joint okay so i have glue coming over i can just wipe it off and that's a good thing that's a good thing yes you you want to have squeeze out when you're joining wood together you know okay so um so we've got the cat say we've got the cabinet built and where uh we've got the paint you know the base coat the primer the base coat now we're going to stencil it oh man or decals let's go stenciling let's talk about decals after that all right stenciling stenciling's fun um the first time i did stencils i was complete um nervous wreck you know and and i i i completely overthought it and overworked it And it came out all right, but I just made a mess of my own nerves. As far as stencils go, I really, really, myself, like the stencils from Pinball Pimp. I think the quality of the stencils is spot on. They cut everything to order, so it hasn't been sitting around for a while. So it flattens out easily. The material itself is fresh, so it sticks down well, doesn't fight with you. And he's got on his website actually a link to their own instructional video, which he makes it look so easy. And then once I watch that video, and it's like, man, no, it really is easy. It's all about the registration. It's all about where you start. You pick a corner, or sometimes the stencils will tell you which corner of the cabinet to start on. You line it up at the corner, and you stick it down. And it's only as hard as you make it. So basically everything we've talked about so far, anybody with a basic knowledge of tools and a little patience and a notepad to write out a game plan could do this at home. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's within the grasp of most people. But just like with any restoration, it has to be something that you are into and you're into seeing through to the end. A lot of restorations, especially with things like cars, have this tendency to start off real gung-ho and then sort of stall out and then set. If you have a game that you're thinking about starting a restoration on, you've got to commit to it because it's going to take you some time. Okay. But if you spend the time on it and you put the passion into it, when you're done, you're going to have something really, really wonderful that you can say, yeah, I did that. That was my work. Oh, yeah. No, definitely. Definitely. Well, again, I've seen your pin bot, man. And it is just – I mean everybody has seen it. Everybody has played it. It all agrees. It looks better than new and plays better than new. So, of course, you've got a new play field, new play field plastics. I know you've got LEDs in it, but the cabinet is just – I mean it looks like it just rolled off the assembly line. Actually better. Now clear coat. I want to talk about clear coat for a minute. What do you use for clear coat, like that thing that shines? What did you use? Actually, Pidbot is not clear coated. Oh, really? It's not? No, it's not. Okay. No, it looks like it is, and it's got a cool effect going to it because there's two different sheens going on. Now, the base color is black, of course, and it is satin. That's the other thing to remember, too. You can do a lot, not only with color, but also with varying the sheen of a paint. And this is more for customizing. Stock factory paint jobs I think are more towards flat for a variety of reasons paint cheaper it easier to work with you know stock factory paint jobs I think are more towards flat um for a variety of reasons paints cheaper it easier to work with Um you know it it it hides mistakes better um stuff like that But, uh, Pinmont got, um, satin black on the cabinet and then for the, what was originally red and yellow turned out to be a red and yellow, blue and yellow and green and orange. So all those are gloss, and what that does is it allows all the art color to really pop off that black. So there's virtually no clear color at all. It's just the gloss colors, and then the black is a satin. Correct. Wow. Well, as I'm going forward, because I'm always trying new things and always trying to look for a way to do whatever I'm doing a little better, I'm actually working now on clear coating. And the cabinets that I have in the shop now, when I finally get all the color done on them, I will be clear coating them just for an extra layer of protection and just give them a nice sheen, a nice even sheen and things like that. But, you know, it's like I said, it's an interesting thing being in California and having not having access to, you know, all the paints that manufacturers can make and sell in other places. So you have to be you have to be willing to do research and and, you know, buy samples and test things to to find stuff that works. And I've been successful that end. Oh, definitely, definitely. I'm really excited to see how Jeannie comes out. GD is going to be a pretty nice looking game. Well, I mean, when that one left the factory, it was a pretty nice looking game. The art on that machine is fantastic. The color scheme is great. It really is. Yeah, yeah. No, it's going to be very exciting to see that. I don't think that one's going to make it to Pinnagogo this year, is it? I don't think it is. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of project. But if I somehow do manage to get all the painting done and get it reassembled and working, then I'm going to try to bring it. But it's iffy at this point. We're getting pretty close, and I have a number of responsibilities for the show, too. Yeah, yeah, you and me both. And we're going to discuss that in a later episode on the Spinner's Lip Pinball podcast. just not right now because tonight we're talking to you about cabinet restoration and repair tips. Did you have anything else you'd like to add just for the listeners out there that are maybe thinking about this and have never done it? Don't be afraid to try stuff. I wouldn't – if someone out there listening has a particularly rare machine that could use a paid job or, uh, you know, could use some, some structural work. Um, I wouldn't start with that, you know, be realistic with yourself. You don't have a background in doing these sorts of things. Be realistic with yourself. You, you know, you, you're going to, it's going to be some trial and error and you're going to learn some things as you go. Um, but, uh, like the first cabinet that I restored, um, was a, a exceptionally beat up, uh, comet that I bought from another friend of ours um i remember the comment and he uh because i didn't mean to interrupt you but i remember the comment because it was like when when seth got it it was uh wasn't it like like left out and like like just like out on a back porch in the rain for like six months it had that look it definitely had that look to it yeah so it looked like that was You've been drugged by a truck on the freeway for half an hour. It was pretty rough. I got it home, and my wife's like, why did you buy this? I said, because I am going to learn things with this machine. And I did, not only with restoring the cabinet, but also electronics and finer points of the mech and wiring and all the other fun stuff. Because it had some unhappy spots in it. Yeah, on the requirements. It was good. It was beautiful. It looked like, again, it looked like the cabinet and the playfield, everything looked like it had just rolled off the assembly line when you were done with it. Well, I could stand there and point out every single flaw with it. But as I said, it was my first machine that I wanted to restore, and I pick it up for the learning experience. And you've got to – anyone who wants to start restoring anything, I mean, like I said, there's going to be a learning curve. um you're going to make mistakes you're going to learn um and you're going to get better each time so um so you know but it's a beat-up comet and start with that yes i'm sure you can find a beat-up comet somewhere or maybe just any any you know older early solid state or em game um you know because if you mess it up you can just shove it in the corner and nobody will see that sign Yeah, well, the nice thing about paint, too, is if you mess it up, you can sand it and paint it again. There you go. And it does happen. Well, right on. These are some wonderful tips. For me, I've never painted a cabinet. I've used some wood putty. I've never even used Bondo, but I've used wood putty on things before. So these are some wonderful tips for the listeners and the pinball people who maybe they've done a play field swap out or rewired, done a whole wiring harness or other things. But maybe they've just never done any woodworking and got to a cavity yet. So your tips and tricks tonight have been really cool. And I've learned a lot just talking with you for the last little bit here. I think that's pretty much all we have unless you have anything else to add to that. No, just if you want to get into it, be patient with yourself and enjoy it too. Part of the allure of restoration for me is that you get to bring life back to something. And I do it – I don't restore pinball cabinets or work on pinball machines for anything work-related. It's only hobby for me. It's my fun decompression thing. And, you know, it's like today I spend most of my workday looking forward to coming home and working on pinball parties, you know, because I'm passionate about restoration. I like bringing old things back to life, you know, and you got to keep that in mind. You're giving life back to something. right and and again because i've seen your work and i've played your work i know how good it is so i think we'll leave off there uh again uh ladies and gentlemen fellow listeners and pinheads this has been chris bannister a professional cabin maker and a hobbyist pinball restorer chris thank you so much for being on the show uh that's our show for tonight uh if you'd like a comment, you can reach me at thespinnerislit at gmail.com. This has been episode two of the Spinner's Lit Pinball Podcast. Thank you for listening. We'll see you around the corner. Play pinball. Keep America strong.