Quick Alice thoughts

Don's Pinball Podcast (patreon feed)·podcast_episode·8m 6s·analyzed·Oct 7, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.024

TL;DR

Don passes on Alice's Adventures in Wonderland despite praising Dutch Pinball quality and design details.

Summary

Don reflects on Dutch Pinball's Alice's Adventures in Wonderland reveal, declining to purchase due to the $13,000 price, 10-year development cycle, and design he feels is dated (originally designed in the 1990s). He praises Dutch Pinball's build quality, analyzes the artwork as potentially controversial for US audiences, dissects the sculpts and playfield layout, and speculates about the game's desirability and secondary market potential.

Key Claims

Dutch Pinball took 10 years to release their last game before Alice
high confidence · Don discussing Alice reveal, referencing company's development timeline
Only 300 units of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland are coming to the US
medium confidence · Don stating availability constraint during initial impressions
Alice was designed in the 1990s (original design from back then)
high confidence · Don analyzing game's visual design and layout philosophy
Dutch Pinball Big Lebowski had exceptional cabinet build quality comparable to CGC-level furniture craftsmanship
high confidence · Don referencing his personal experience owning a Big Lebowski machine
Big Lebowski delays were due to legal/licensing issues, not production problems
medium confidence · Don speculating on reasons for Big Lebowski delays during Alice analysis
Artwork was initially done by Zombietti (Zombie Yeti) with payment/credit issues
medium confidence · Don mentioning art credit controversies without detailed engagement
A fully dressed Lior sculpt package costs $1500-$1600
medium confidence · Don discussing aftermarket customization pricing for similar games
Alice's Adventures in Wonderland uses magnet flippers similar to Twilight Zone
medium confidence · Don analyzing playfield layout and flipper mechanics from reveal
Jersey Jack's team that worked on Magic Girl may be involved with Alice project under DPX label
low confidence · Don speculating about team composition and partnership structure
DPX (Dutch Pinball Exclusives) is a separate boutique side-label venture from Dutch Pinball
medium confidence · Don theorizing about business structure and 500-unit production target for the label

Notable Quotes

“Hard to justify this purchase without seeing a reveal. And for a game like this, and if it's popular, you need to right this hour be putting down a $1500 deposit from a company that took 10 years to release their last game.”
Don @ early — Core justification for declining to purchase Alice despite its desirability
“For me myself, it looks like a game designed in the 90s, because it was.”
Don @ mid — Key criticism of game's design philosophy and visual approach
“I had a Big Lebowski, it was phenomenal, man... CGC level I would put it directly at that as far as like cabinet build quality of a piece of furniture and just like art of wood it's fantastic”
Don @ mid — Establishes Don's high regard for Dutch Pinball's manufacturing quality standards
“I've noticed a trend in the US with comic books and with comic art and the depiction of females as scantily clad has really been kind of in a bit of recession now... seems like a bit more racy than I would expect for a pinball machine.”
Don @ mid — Identifies emerging US cultural shift away from sexualized artwork, contrasts with European standards
“I love that idea of having kind of like a smaller boutique label put these things out there keeping the numbers low we keep it special This isn't a game that's going to be everywhere”
Don @ late-mid — Endorsement of DPX's limited-edition business model and scarcity strategy
“I'm glad that I'm not 100% in on it because I need the money, man.”
Don @ late — Personal financial reasoning for passing on the $13,000 purchase
“It's not the game for me and that's okay. Not every game has to be for me.”
Don @ closing — Philosophical stance on collector positioning and selective purchasing

Entities

Donperson Alice's Adventures in Wonderlandgame Dutch PinballcompanyDPXorganizationJersey Jack Pinballcompany Big Lebowskigame Magic Girlgame

Signals

?
product_concern: Don critiques Alice's design as feeling like a game designed in the 1990s, suggesting the playfield and shot layout approach feels nostalgic rather than contemporary.
high · For me myself, it looks like a game designed in the 90s, because it was.
$
market_signal: 300 units allocated to US market creates constrained supply; Don speculates secondary market could see $4,000+ mark-ups if game proves highly desirable.
high · Only 300 of them coming to the US... maybe I'm misreading it, and this is gonna be so highly desirable that people are gonna be flipping their deposits for $4,000
?
business_signal: Dutch Pinball's 10-year cycle between releases (Big Lebowski to Alice) presents financial and delivery risk for pre-order customers putting down $1,500 deposits.
high · Hard to justify this purchase without seeing a reveal... a company that took 10 years to release their last game. So, a bit of a risk.
~
sentiment_shift: Emerging US cultural trend away from sexualized female depictions in art; Don notes Alice's artwork will trigger household display concerns similar to Elvira but with stronger contemporary pushback.
medium · I've noticed a trend in the US with comic books... the depiction of females as scantily clad has really been kind of in a bit of recession... I've already seen some comments regarding that little pushback
?
design_innovation: Alice features comprehensive sculpting across entire playfield rather than mixed plastic/sculpt approach, with Jabberwocky as moving mechanical element with action mechanics.

Topics

Alice's Adventures in Wonderland reveal and initial impressionsprimaryDutch Pinball business practices, development timelines, and manufacturing qualityprimaryPricing and value proposition for limited-edition boutique pinball machinesprimaryGame design philosophy and aesthetic choices (1990s design sensibility)primaryArtwork and artistic presentation, cultural shifts in sexualized depictionssecondaryPlayfield sculpts and aftermarket customization optionssecondaryPlayfield mechanics and flipper technology (magnet flippers)secondarySecondary market speculation and collector FOMO dynamicssecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.55)— Don expresses genuine appreciation for Dutch Pinball's craftsmanship, finds the game's design interesting but dated, and appreciates its existence as a limited boutique release. However, he declines purchase due to price, company risk profile, and personal financial constraints. Skepticism about design philosophy balances enthusiasm for manufacturing quality. Supportive tone toward buyers while remaining personally detached.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.024

Hey, just real quick fam, pin fam, what's going on? I just watched the reveal, still going on, carry hardest things, had some quick impressions now that we've seen and can talk about Alice's Adventures in Wonderland from Dutch Pinball. What am I thinking? Don, are you getting one? Well, first off, well, no. And that was my position earlier. Hard to justify this purchase without seeing a reveal. And for a game like this, and if it's popular, you need to right this hour be putting down a $1500 deposit from a company that took 10 years to release their last game. So, a bit of a risk. With only 300 of them coming to the US though, I mean, you know, it's not like it's an open edition or there's gonna be 5000 of them or something. So, if you're getting one and you're happy about it, I'm happy for you dude. That's totally cool. For me myself, it looks like a game designed in the 90s, because it was. You know, I have to dissect all the shots and everything, but I've seen the art, I've seen the cabinets, I've seen the layouts, we kind of had an idea what the layout was going to be before. I will say this, regarding the price of this thing, this is a Dutch Pinball machine, and they've got great build quality. I had a Big Lebowski, it was phenomenal, man. I'm a little man had that lower playfield with the bowling alley like it was something special so the cabinet quality is probably gonna be top shelf because my god taking that Lebowski apart like taking the glass off lifting the playfield and looking at like the build of the cabinet is obscenely awesome like CGC level I would put it directly at that as far as like cabinet build quality of a piece of furniture and just like art of wood it's fantastic so if you were to take a Dutch Pinball machine and then if you were to go out and purchase I think that price is on point from that perspective. Now what if you just wanted to get the game way too much. Too much too much. So, I don't know. Maybe this is gonna, maybe I'm misreading it, and this is gonna be so highly desirable that people are gonna be flipping their deposits for $4,000 here in the next three months. I don't know. If so, fantastic. Art wise, man, I don't know. Like, I'm definitely not a prude or anything. I mean, I enjoy my Elviras. I enjoy boobs as much as the next guy. But, um, and this may be, you know, kind of a European perspective. But I've noticed a trend in the US with comic books and with comic art and the depiction of females as scantily clad has really been kind of in a bit of recession now. And I guess I haven't realized that as much, but like when I see it, I'm all of a sudden struck like, oh, seems like a bit more racy than I would expect for a pinball machine. And I'm like, what the hell is wrong with me? I'm a prude all of a sudden, right? But I think people are legitimately going to see this and be like, there's absolutely no way I can bring that into my house. Now I'm not at that point. You know, if I happen to cross one of these in a trade or something, I wouldn't have a problem bringing it home. You know, I've got a home full of women, you know, even most of my dogs are women, but most of my women are not dogs. Not making that comparison. No, they're, they're great. They're fantastic. But you know, we enjoy Elvira and stuff, but sometimes when we have people over, my wife I'm not sure if we'll kind of maybe hide the back glass in Elvira a little bit if they're a little, you know, more kind of conservative. So I could see this maybe causing, causing the same kind of issues. I've already seen some comments regarding that little pushback, you know, regarding how racy the art is. Now, this doesn't take into account that if, was this art, who did this art? I know Zombietti did it initially and then maybe it wasn't paid for it and then did they take it without crediting him. I'm not getting into any of that. I'm sure we'll hear a full expose from people that are angry about it. I don't really have a dog in that fight. Art I think it looks cool. I mean with the red powder coat the RGB lighting and the armor I wish that the armor would come down just enough to cover the buttons though because like I hate the idea of grubby fingers on the art print I love having you know either lollipop rails or you know curved metal rails or laser cut rails that come down and protect the buttons I dig that because I like that feel of that powder coat. I don't want to feel like my greasy nacho hands are just like scuffing up and getting body oils all over my art on the side there. I'm just me, you know, but for 13,000, we shouldn't be, you know, adding extra things to it or anything. The sculpts look like out of control. Everything is sculpted. Every top of where there would be a plastic looks sculpted. It looks like there's a whole sculpt in the back with the brickwork around the Jabberwock there. And isn't it funny that we're having another toy with like a kung-fu grip action? We just saw that with the McFarlane sculpt in Avatar where that mech raises his hand, and like the Tarzan motion, right? And now like Jabberwocky's doing the same thing. All right, let's get the next video here. Let me just get forward. There we go. All right, we're not gonna listen to that anymore. It's just funny. So like if I bought this game and it was just, you know, normal plastics and stuff, maybe I'd pick up a couple of Lior sculpts, but I don't know if I would dress the whole game. This game comes fully dressed, so if that's something you were into, you know, a fully dressed sculpt package from Lior can be like $1500–$1600, right? So if the game was 10 base and you put that in there and got a couple of stumbler mods in the topper, there you go. There you go, man. Um, you know, I think the edition size makes sense. You know, to me, this was a guy that's really hard on for Jay Popaduk's work with all the work that they put into Magic Girl. I think this is the same team. And so it seems like they approached Dutch Pinball and they're like, we need to do this next. And Dutch maybe being a little trepidatious is like or you know not willing to let a partner into the official business started this new side business project and was like you know there some room across the street open up over there we help you we we shoot for 500 just so we can sell it out and then you move on to something else and we release it under the DPX label. I love that idea of having kind of like a smaller boutique label put these things out there keeping the numbers low we keep it special. This isn't a game that's going to be everywhere, but time will tell. You know, hopefully this game will be out within a year. I think they got everything sorted. I think a lot of the issues with the delays with Big Lebowski wasn't due to production issues, but it was due to the legal issues because like the license wasn't fully secured and had to go through an entire international court process. Alright, so they seem to be cranking games out now. I'm glad there's another game that's out there. And I'm glad that I'm not 100% in on it because I need the money, man. I need the money to keep going. So those are some initial impressions. We haven't seen any gameplay yet. I'm at work so it's hard for me to follow along. I don't know if like that's already dropped on the Dutch side. I guess we'll find out. But I want to jump on and just give some first impressions. Shots and layout, there's some things that I like. The shot through the pops to the right orbit to that plastic ramp looks nice. I want to shoot that. I don't know how the magnet flippers will feel. I'll just have to play that to see. I know it is a frustrating part of WWE because there is a complete lack of any accuracy. And when you're wrestling in a ring, it kind of makes sense for that game, you know? And then when you do put the ball in and pin your opponent, it like really feels like something special because it's not something you can just trap up and then hit every time. And that had controllable slings. This has the magnet thing from Twilight Zone. So I'll have to see how it plays. I'm sure they've play tested it and it's probably just fine. We'll get to play this at Expo. I'm excited for that. I'm excited for you. I'm just excited in general to be doing something besides just work. Let me put this out there real quick and then we'll see what happens with the rest of the release. And then I'll do a full podcast, break it down, kind of everything. But those are my thoughts. Are you getting one? Congrats, man. Super happy for you. Please invite me over to come play it. I hope you think it's awesome. I think it looks great. I think the art, you know, it works for what it is. Layout works for what it is. I, it's not the game for me and that's okay. Not every game has to be for me. More to come as it comes. Later everybody.