Ooh. Um, I'm going to give a broad answer. Magnetic nut drivers with a hollow shaft. Super useful. Nice. That's very specific. Uh, Roller Nice. That's very specific. Uh, Roller Coaster says Totan is overrated. That's funny you say that, man. That's Carl's least favorite uh Papa Duke game as well. Uh, which is crazy. I don't know what's going on there. I I think you can separate like I to me I I think you can separate like I to me like with some of those games you have to separate it from like tournament player like like and hate versus like what is the experience because the choreography in Tales of the Arabian Knights is amazing no matter how much like tournament players may have disdain for the way or how you're supposed to play it like you know what I mean? Does that make sense? Totally it does. And I have a I have an Totally it does. And I have a I have an interesting thought question for you. This is you as a pinball lover unrelated to uh Stern, right? Something that I'm frustrated about, right? And Keith Owen has set the standard for games that are in so insanely deep that they're like 45 hour long minute journeys. They're [ __ ] tournament games for a lot of like people, you know, but then you have games like, you know, Denise's like TNA, right, where it's just like Fast and Furious and you're out of it in like 5 or 10 minutes. I feel like there's a trend in pinball right now to try to make games that are incredibly long playing because of the success of Keith's games and other games like that. But is there do you think like are we done with games that are just like short quick interesting concepts? Is that only a homebrew thing now or or is that just where the market is? No. So, okay, to answer that question, No. So, okay, to answer that question, but I have a another thing to bring up. No, I don't think so because uh go play John Wick. I love Oh, I hate John Wick. I've played it. Oh, I hate John Wick. I've played it. I love John Wick. I love the playfield I love John Wick. I love the playfield of John Wick so much because it is mean. And I really like a game that fights back in the same reason why I love TNA, which is I have over there off camera. It's one of my favorite games ever because the machine fights back and I feel like John Wick does that. so incredibly well. I have a feeling and I kind of have a theory and it's probably true, but you also have to think like, you know, now that a massive majority of all pinball games, not just like what Stern Pinball makes, but every pinball manufacturer makes, most of them go into homes, they don't go into an arcade. I feel like the experience of pinball has it it changed and had to adapt to its new environment. There was a thing that's very true. That's an excellent that's very true. That's an excellent statement. When I was working at a um with Chris When I was working at a um with Chris Coun, the pinball pirate, we were a repair place, but we sold games to Stern Dealer, JJP dealer, and we sold refurbished games. But, you know, you have people that come in and be like, "I want a Captain Fantastic or I want a Black Knight." Uh, because that's the game I had in my student union when I was in college, right? And it's like you kind of have to like creatively tell those people, "No, you actually do not want that game because you are going to buy that game and you are going to get so incredibly good at it and so incredibly bored of it because there's not much skin in the game. Those games were absolutely designed to be played a quarter at a time. um not consistently on free play until you get absolutely bored of it. Um Brian Eddie has kind of circumvented Brian Eddie has kind of circumvented that with the concept of being able to come back to your play where it's saved like with D and D and you know Venom to a certain degree. And I think that those are really interesting concepts that personally I do enjoy because it gives a player like me who's not like absolutely excellent an opportunity to see the end of a game. And also something I enjoy about Dn D um is is there's something like that I've talked to people about and I know that you have um criticisms of D and D and I like listening to them, but I certainly have talked about D and D a I certainly have talked about D and D a lot. That's very true. The indie offers like a different way for people to play pinball as well. If you a lot of owners and people that I talk to about that game, they play it, they have played it just to see and interact with the story as opposed to see it and interacting to like get a good score. Sure. Sure. For the record, my complaints about Dn D For the record, my complaints about Dn D have never been about its mode progression and uh kind of safe state stuff. I think that's a necessary evolution of pinball for people that aren't good and do want to be able to experience a wizard mode and not have to just use it as a challenge mode or something for the record. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think it's it's Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think it's it's an interesting experiment and I think it's neat how it's been implemented. I like that. Um but yeah, just like I I kind of like the different way to play the game, I guess, is what I'm saying. I mean, same kind of like TNA also has something similar if you take it down to it. Am I playing the game to like destroy all the reactors as many as I can? Or am I actually trying to like am I am I playing for score? Am I going to try to manipulate it to get the biggest score? I don't know. Which is great. I like that a game that Which is great. I like that a game that is short and quick like that has options as well cuz usually you have to have a game with tons and things to do long playing in order to have those options. So for those to be available on a play field that's much simpler, I appreciate that. Let's reel it back though. I still want to talk about John Wick. I'm not done with Wick yet because I hear you. My collection is is brutal games. Almost all the games that I have are very hard because I think home owning homeowner games should be difficult. They should challenge you, right? Um, you know, like I've Ghostbusters is a good example of a game that's brutal. People generally don't like it because of of things that are uh unfairly difficult. And to your point with John Wick, you like a to your point with John Wick, you like a game that fights back. In in my opinion, I think a design philosophy should be that the player should have an opportunity to fight back against the fighting back. And I think that John Wick's rejection shots are just they don't provide that. And I like the way that the playfield's laid out. I think that the, you know, they fixed the scoring. The criticism that I would give, other than the fact that it fights back too quick and you don't have an opportunity, is that with the recent updates, it seems like the solution is to just increase ball save time. And that happened again on D&D. And I don't those are band-aids. Those aren't solutions to to design. I don't want to call them problems, but like it's a quick fix for something that's a little bit deeper in my opinion. Sure. Yeah. I think that I mean that's Sure. Yeah. I think that I mean that's 100% valid. Um I think it's like you know I think the the joke and what it 100% comes back to though is there is a a person in pinball land named Steve Richie. And if you told any of this him if you told him any of this, he would say play better. I'm just kidding. No, I I play better. I'm just kidding. No, I I do I agree. I there's there's things that I definitely agree with you there. And I think but I think that's also the fun thing about pinball, right? Is like when you blow like a newbie's mind and you blow their mind that like pinball actually has rules, right? And you're not just flailing and doing things, every game plays so different. Um, there's like there's like, you know, there's people that like I only like Steve Richie games. I only like Pat Lawler games, you know? It's like there's always that fight, right, between those two guys. I like the flow or I really like sniping and stuff like that where it's like, I don't know, there's a game for everyone, right? That's kind of the fun thing about pinball is that there is a game for everyone. we all have totally different likes and dislikes when it comes to like how a game plays and how it's set up. Um, and there's a lot of games out there, right? So, yeah, that's kind of like another funny thing that's kind of like another funny thing I see when people are like they don't like a new game that's released and they haven't played it and they, you know, kind of trash talk it online and it's like if you don't like it, don't don't play that one. Just play another one. There's a lot of other just shut the [ __ ] up if you don't like just shut the [ __ ] up if you don't like a game and you haven't played it yet. Like don't spread that information. Like you can't like who the hell talks [ __ ] about something that they haven't touched. It's just wild to me. Uh so I do want to remind chat please Uh so I do want to remind chat please fire away. This is an opportunity. The one of the reasons that we do this live is for questions. Alan Anonymous has put an absolute banger of a question here and I'm going to read this. This is fantastic. Alanmus said by the way anonymous is like one of the OG streamers. He's like an an old-timer for streaming. Uh, so he says with stern game modes that are held behind insider in exclusivity. So he's talking about, for example, the Jaws 8-bit mode, he's talking 30 years from now. Oh man, stop talking. I got to keep scrolling up now. 30 years from now, if you ever have a chance that STM isn't around, the game mode's now lost, right? So he's talking about the idea that, you know, you look at kind of games now, the content is forever, right? But now we're we're locking it behind a piece of technology that may not function in the future and is now dependent on people for reverse engineering it or something in order for it to be usable past our generation. And you know, I would like to hope that games like whatever Deadpool behind you. I'm just using as example. I know you've got uh Frankenstein, King Kong next to you, that those games are going to be played in 50 60 years, you know? I mean, I have a Lord of the Rings that's not incredibly old, you know, but my Twilight Zone is a is a is fairly old and still kicking, but all the stuff that is involved in that game is fully accessible no matter what. No hacks or anything to get to it through some sort of weird technology issue. Look, I don't think that I think that Look, I don't think that I think that this issue doesn't this issue is not just something about pinball though, right? Because when I look at my Steam library of hundreds and hundreds of pieces of software that I own. own. Yeah. Yeah. Through Through a service of Steam, right? So what if next week uh Valve declares for bankruptcy they are dissolved and everyone is fired and the servers are shut down. Where are my games? Yeah, I I I totally hear what you're saying I I I totally hear what you're saying and I I think that's an interesting thing to ponder in a way. But do you know what I mean? Like No, I do. The example for video games is No, I do. The example for video games is perfect. Think about games that have DRM in it, right? The only reason a lot of games from the like mid90s, uh, Arma's a good example, right? So, Arma has this uh uh feature where if the game is identified as pirated, it gets progressively harder without you knowing it. And without that being known, right? So, there was a rip of this game from back when I was much younger where the game just gets ridiculously hard and you don't know, right? So, it takes the community to reverse engineer these games and kind of break that DRM in order for it to exist in a format where it is accessible. We could also talk about um the Witcher companies uh what they bought GOG, right? So GOG is a kind of archivist company that provides software that doesn't have DRM or any of that [ __ ] in it and is also trying to withhold the legacy of of DOSs and CGA, VGA games, all that [ __ ] This is harder to do with pinball because a pinball machine is itself a physical object, right? But it is also now a piece of software. Yes. And that that's an interesting Yes. And that that's an interesting thing to bring into that discussion, right, of um buying is owning the whole save the save this game um thing that was happening like in the EU, etc. I it's an interesting thought. Um I guess like I don't want to think about it because uh Stern Pinball's never going to go out of business because uh you know, pinball is beloved and we're just going to keep making games until the sun crashes into the earth. I don't know. All praise. you know All praise. you know um but I yeah I think but it is it is a really really interesting it is an it is a interesting discussion to have in this era of gaming discussion to have in this era of gaming whether that is video gaming um in our instance of like physical um gaming and combined with software right um you know times are changing and you know it's just that's just the way things are now I don't own physical data sets of any video game that I've played for the last 20 years, maybe. I mean, 15 years, I don't know. It's movie movies are like this, too. Now, movie movies are like this, too. Now, you don't buy movies. You buy the uh right to own a digital version of it that can be removed at any time. A bunch of PlayStation owners had a bunch of their content ripped when games suddenly servers shut down. I mean, there's all sorts of issues with the world. Yeah. S3 has a really great question, too. He says, "Kyle, would you ever be able to do a Stern School deep dive on Spike 2 like the presentation you did with Chris uh a month or so ago? one more structured and edited with clearer audio I think would be really helpful for a lot of people uh to understand how to debug spike 2 systems. There you go. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'd love to do Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'd love to do that and that's something that I can bring up to the marketing people um when we talk about doing another um tech school thing. I um I actually uh just got sent up to here here another hat, right? I just got sent up to Toronto um to go to Player One Amusements, our big Canadian distributor. They're fantastic people. Um, but I gave all of their route texts um throughout the entirety of the province. Um, a a seminar on Spike 2 and how it works and things that you should know about operating a Spike 2 game and stuff like that. I would love to do that. Um, here's the thing though is like I am not an engineer. I am not like super high level. I can't explain things in a super super detailed level. But I think it's like what people have told me over the years from streaming and talking about tech stuff is they like it that I can explain it in a simple way and not in the like super heavy way. So like I'd be happy to consider that. Um I'd love to do it. So I'm even actually thinking about bringing up streaming again. Um this basement is pretty dark, but I would love to do more tech streams um on my free time. So I Lights Lights are great. and the tube I Lights Lights are great. and the tube lights. I highly recommend these ones. Um the uh who's who what legend over there pushed through the idea of getting an actual like map of the game for switches and other things with the new UI that came into uh Spike 2. So that's something that like I know So that's something that like I know that like companywide they've wanted to do since we introduced the LCD screen with um Batman or Aerosmith, whichever the first Spike 2 game was. Um but the person the the legend he is actually a legend is Mark Pinacho. Um he pushed that through and did almost the entirety. Um well I won't say almost the entirety. He did so much of the work and was like the orchestrator for that whole program. Um Mark Pinacho um is a name you might not know but Mark Ponacho has worked on so many games you love. He was the main coder for fish tales. He designed all the rules in that game. He did a lot of rule design and programming on late8s Williams games. He's worked at He started working at Williams I think in 1986 1985. He interviewed Dwight Sullivan and gave him his job. Um Mark Pinacho is an awesome awesome smart amazing person. That's one personal thank you to Mark for doing that because it is making operators and owner homeowners around the [ __ ] globe uh you know not pull their hair out wondering where the hell XYZ number switch is. I know MXV did a lot of help with Mark. I know MXV did a lot of help with Mark. Um I was lucky enough to be asked to kind of help him or like give him some suggestions here and there. I mean then all of the game teams right for all the games that it's been implemented in has also done a ton of work right uh to get those things up to date. It's a lot and a lot of I'm surprised to not see that in the 1.0 I'm surprised to not see that in the 1.0 version of Jaws. Is there any timeline? I realize that this isn't your job, but is there an idea on when it might be coming for some other games that are pretty are fan favorites currently? I don't know. I don't I can't tell you I don't know. I don't I can't tell you anything specific, but I mean the company line is that it will be implemented in every single LCD game eventually. Um I think the Jaws stuff eventually. Um I think the Jaws stuff was mostly to like just get all that content finalized. Um, you know, Rick is working on um King Kong. He's working on New Game. He just like, you know, he just pushed the last of Jaws through. So, I'm sure it's uh it's coming through soon. So, cool. Uh cool. Uh S says he'd like to see Kyler Jack pull stuff out from the Stern archives and document more of the history of past. I mean, that would be amazing, but as a business, I just feel like that's a lot of effort to to do. they would need to have like a actual community. Uh I mean I guess Jack could potentially do that. By the way, this is an un unstructured plug, but tomorrow or the day after is Comic- Con. And if you don't know already know, Jack is going to be streaming down there and should absolutely be watched. I'm super looking forward to it personally. But uh yeah, if you didn't know that, you should. And now you do. It's going to be awesome. It's going to It's going to be awesome. It's going to be great to see Jack streaming again. I'm super excited. um he has invited me to come and stream with him and I am absolutely going to do that. It's going to be a lot of fun. But to be honest, like that's actually a really fantastic idea. I would love to we should do that. Um Keith has a torpedo alley that was in the office for a while and we moved it out. We have a um laser. The only game Ian owns by the way. The only game Ian owns by the way. Sorry, what? Sorry, what? Which what? Torpedo Alley is the only Which what? Torpedo Alley is the only game that Ian owns from Nudge Mag. Oh, because he's in a man of impeccable Oh, because he's in a man of impeccable taste. Except actually he's not. I take that back. Yeah, I know he isn't. Yeah, I know he isn't. Ian does not like Bone Busters. And that Ian does not like Bone Busters. And that is a Ray Tanzer masterpiece. One of the best games of all time. Um, we're probably going to fight about it at Expo, but it will end in a big hug. So, everybody loves hugs. everybody loves hugs. No, going back to that though, I would No, going back to that though, I would love to talk more and show some of those early games. It's it's a really interesting bit of history and time and you know telling the story of Data East and Sega. It's it's that's a really really really un less documented right kind of pinball history bit. So and pinball history is important man. and pinball history is important man. History shapes what the future of games is. So um all right one well I'm going to ask this roller coasters question and I I think we should probably wrap it up a little bit. We're almost at two hours. Thank you again for dedicating so much of your evening to this. I super appreciate it, Kyle. I'll go for another two hours. I just I'll go for another two hours. I just need to go get another beer. That's all. Same. If somebody's watching that may Same. If somebody's watching that may potentially be in the house, don't you dare bring me a pickle beer. I hope somebody's listening. Uh, so I hope somebody's listening. Uh, so Roller Coaster is asking, "How do you how does Stern, not you, how does Stern feel about mods?" Uh, and he's referring to Pin Monk. I mean, I can't help but also drop Davey, who's been on the stream before, and Rob from the Electric Playground, who is coming to be on the stream soon with his topper for uh Alice in Wonderland. If you if anybody watching is curious about that, there's a little quick self-plug for myself. But yeah, what is Stern's position on modding?