We Are Pinball #14 "All the Stern Themes!"

We Are Pinball (WAP)·podcast_episode·1h 15m·analyzed·Nov 4, 2024

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

WAP hosts critique Stern survey themes: Pokemon/GTA/RoboCop as winners, sports/niche IPs as losers.

Summary

Don and Genghis from We Are Pinball review Stern's survey of ~75 potential pinball game themes, discussing commercial viability, home vs. location appeal, and designer fit for themes ranging from Pokemon and Grand Theft Auto to Nirvana, RoboCop, and Fast & Furious. They debate which IPs would work as pinball machines based on modern relevance, audience breadth, and gameplay potential.

Key Claims

American Pinball stated that nobody was buying games because it's an election year
medium confidence · Don references this as second-hand claim about market dynamics
Fast & Furious arcade machines on location make 30 times more money than Guardians of the Galaxy or Iron Maiden pinball
medium confidence · Genghis reports this from his location operator experience
Stern is actively listening to fan feedback and incorporating their ideas into the survey
low confidence · Don speculates that his previously mentioned game ideas appearing on survey suggests Stern is listening
King Kong pinball is rumored to be in development by Stern with Keith Elwin as designer
medium confidence · Don states 'rumors are saying that they're making this game and it's Keith Elwin'
Sports themes don't work in modern pinball due to narrow appeal beyond older demographics
medium confidence · Don repeatedly criticizes NHL, college sports, FIFA as '60-year-old bald old man stuff'
Younger generations (teens/20s) are unfamiliar with classic IP like E.T. and Terminator
medium confidence · Genghis describes teenagers at party not knowing what Terminator or Arnold Schwarzenegger are
Niche themes (Miyazaki, Happy Gilmore, indie games) won't succeed unless they have mainstream appeal
medium confidence · Consensus discussion that Stern needs broad audience, not niche collector interest
Friday the 13th pinball licensing is too complex (multiple rights holders) to make commercially viable
high confidence · Don: 'so many different license holders. It's just there's no way it could really work'
Pokemon would be the ultimate Spike 3 game with features like trading and competitive play
low confidence · Hosts speculate on gameplay mechanics and platform integration potential

Notable Quotes

“I think what they did is they probably had about 10 themes they're really working on, and they're like, we can't just put this out because people are going to know our next 10 games. So I need people to give me some ideas of just some crap we can throw in here.”
Don @ ~2:30 — Explains Stern's strategy behind the expansive survey—padding with decoys to obscure actual pipeline
“Pokemon is the ultimate Spike 3 system game with YouTube. What is this? Insider connected everything so we could connect. We could trade Pokemons. We could battle against your friends.”
Genghis @ ~8:00 — Articulates how Pokemon's game mechanics align perfectly with Spike 3's connected features
“Fast and Furious is making 30 times more money than those two pinball machines [Guardians of the Galaxy, Iron Maiden]”
Genghis @ ~58:00 — Data point on location operator preferences; signals market demand for action franchises over niche IP
“Rumors are saying that they're making this game and it's Keith Elwin.”
Don @ ~32:00 — Rumor of King Kong with Keith Elwin as designer; potential leak from survey
“You don't make 15 films if you're not making money every time. It's probably the same people going out to see it every time, but so what? It's the same people going to be going to the arcade, putting money in it.”
Genghis @ ~59:00 — Market logic for Fast & Furious viability despite personal disinterest
“I love the idea of taking the Foo Fighters and turning it into an adventure game like Scooby get in the van let go fight the aliens and stuff and make it silly. That absolutely worked, and absolutely would be the wrong way to go with Nirvana.”
Don @ ~44:00 — Design philosophy distinction: concept-driven Foo Fighters vs. mood-driven Nirvana
“All right. Nirvana should be just a concert in the box, take me back to 1994, and that's what it should be.”
Genghis @ ~45:00 — Clear design brief for music IP: nostalgia and atmosphere over mechanical complexity

Entities

DonpersonGenghispersonStern PinballcompanyJack Dangerperson John Borgperson Keith ElwinpersonSteve RichiepersonGeorge Gomezperson

Signals

~
sentiment_shift: Strong consensus that Pokemon would be universal winner and 'no-brainer' for Spike 3 platform with connected/trading features
high · Hosts agree uniformly on Pokemon viability with connected gameplay; 'this is a no-brainer'
?
competitive_signal: Fast & Furious franchise maintains strong commercial appeal despite franchise saturation (15 films) due to consistent box office and repeat audience
medium · Genghis: 'You don't make 15 films if you're not making money every time. It's probably the same people going out to see it'
?
design_philosophy: Music IP requires mood-driven nostalgia approach (Nirvana concert-in-box) vs. adventure/concept-driven approach (Foo Fighters redesign as Scooby adventure)
medium · Genghis on Nirvana: 'concert in the box, take me back to 1994' vs. Don on Foo Fighters: 'turning it into an adventure game like Scooby'
?
leak_detection: King Kong pinball rumored in development by Stern with Keith Elwin as designer
medium · Don: 'rumors are saying that they're making this game and it's Keith Elwin'
?
licensing_signal: Friday the 13th pinball blocked by licensing fragmentation (multiple rights holders); homebrew available as alternative
high · Don: 'so many different license holders... There's no way it could really work' but 'we got a good homebrew out of it'
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Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.227

0:00

That way we have some bonus episode stuff. Are you ready for this, Genghis? Let's do this just before the election. Oh, man, it's election time. After the election, people are going to start buying pinball machines again because that's what American pinball told us, that nobody was buying games because it's an election year. All right, I'm going to hit it. Some people tell me that I need help. Some people can fuck off and go to hell. Oh, laugh is coming back. Gatchi number 14, we are pinball. Don and Jeng is. Your homies from other mothers. Join together once again for a very special episode where we will cover the Stern survey that was sent out. That has like... Oh man, I'm vibing on Cypress Hill right now. Me too, me too.

0:51

Who wants to start a Cypress Hill podcast? We can just... Who should make a Cypress Hill pinball machine, Donnie? Should we have it? Is it on the survey? Sadly, no, for some reason. What the heck? Where's our Cypress heads at? So who do I want to make it? So we got a list of like 75 different themes. I think what they did is they probably had about 10 themes they're really working on, and they're like, we can't just put this out because people are going to know our next 10 games. So I need people to give me some ideas of just some crap we can throw in here. And there's so much crap in here. that was just dumped in but you know what else i noticed reading through this list which is compiled now is that a lot of the ideas like that i had kicking around they showed up on here too and i want to hope that those are actually because stern is thinking about making them it's so cool they're listening to donnie so welcome everybody show number 14 we are pinball i mean we are it's this is so cool i'm just so happy every time we make this the response is awesome the listeners are awesome so already show number 14 we're gonna talk about the stern survey they send out these mails with a lot of games themes to get some feedback should we work on this should we make these games or should we just completely ignore it on this episode number 14 don and i we're gonna discuss is this a good idea bad idea good for location good for homeowners what's good what's bad let's just hit it tony all right game is number one well number one in my heart also is muppets what do you think do you even know what a muppet is do you know what a muppet is i know what it is but that theme is just nothing for me no one should make that game what do you think about it i love it someone should make it there's so many ways to tackle it don't do the recent movies do classic muppet show just make it spooky pinball get at me let's do this thing all right fine let's jump to the next one tool the band yeah i should have had some tool music queued up man that would have been awesome i'm stupid i have never heard about tools i don't know so a thing with tool like the music's awesome but early on they really balked at streaming they want to still sell records so a lot of people like a whole generation missed out on tool and now they're like yeah that was a bad idea so people are discovering tool again it's coming around again they're dope and people i know that are into music are really into tool um but yeah i don't know if they got enough appeal we'll see how about this should they make it should they make it i mean i'd play it but it's not the top of my list but i mean i dig tool but you know all right how about this one how about this one universally i think this is the one that people want pokemon oh heck yeah that should be on top of the list i think it should be a jack danger game Pokemon, a lot of collectors would buy it, homeowners would buy it and on location it will be a killer theme oh my god I see this as a Brian Eddy theme man, personally I'm just kidding I'm just playing I'm just trying to think of someone not Jack Danger I'm just being contrary so we all want Pokemon, we're all going to buy it collecting these animals or whatever and increasing your experience points, unlocking stuff. That's what the whole game is. That was the best parts of Venom. So, yeah, dude, bring it with a lot. Yeah, of course. Of course. Pokemon is the ultimate Spike 3 system game with YouTube. What is this? Insider connected everything so we could connect. We could trade Pokemons. We could battle against your friends. Come on. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. This is a no-brainer. Download the content. Yeah, I think this was like, yeah, how many people are really into Pokemon? I think that's just what they were looking for. Next up, a theme nobody cares about, National Hockey League. I'm looking at my National Predator fans. Yeah, like a hockey league. Dude, sports? Pinball and sports does not compute. Excuse me. This is 60-year-old, bald, old man stuff. Have you been in a four-player competition on Flipper Football? No. Because I will tell you that, holy crap, that absolutely slaps. But it's funny not because of the sport. It's funny because of all the antics and all that stuff. So National Hockey League, no. Mutant Hockey League, yes.

Deadpool 3 with Wolverine made $1 billion as an R-rated film, indicating strong franchise appeal

high confidence · Don cites box office fact directly

“If Joe Pesci is in it, it would make a good pinball machine. Prove me wrong. Prove me wrong.”

Don @ ~50:00 — Actor/personality as design driver for film IP viability

“Irrelevant. Is Cheers irrelevant? No. G.I. Joe? Barely.”

Don @ ~42:30 — Core decision criterion: Is the IP still culturally relevant to modern players?

“People seem to want it. I don't know. I'm okay on it. I would want it about as much as a Daft Punk machine.”

Genghis @ ~12:00 — Dismissal of Beastie Boys despite community interest; personal preference vs. market demand tension

Spooky Pinballcompany

Grand Theft Auto 6game

We Are Pinballorganization

market_signal: Sports themes (NHL, NCAA, FIFA, etc.) universally rejected as commercially unviable for pinball due to narrow demographic appeal and irrelevance to modern/younger audiences

high · Consensus dismissal across multiple sports IPs; Don: 'Pinball and sports does not compute... 60-year-old, bald, old man stuff'

market_signal: Location operators see Fast & Furious arcade significantly outperforming pinball releases (30:1 revenue ratio), indicating action franchise preference

high · Genghis: 'we have Fast and Furious, and next to it we have Guardians of the Galaxy pinball... Fast and Furious is making 30 times more money'

community_signal: Theme evaluation driven by cross-cutting criteria: cultural relevance, location vs. home viability, designer-IP fit, and modern audience familiarity

high · Hosts systematically apply 'Is this irrelevant today?' test to every theme and debate location/home split appeal

product_strategy: Stern balancing decoy themes in survey to obscure actual 10-game pipeline while gathering genuine market feedback

medium · Don's speculation on survey strategy to include filler themes

product_strategy: Stern conducting large-scale theme survey (75 IPs) with strategy to pad list with decoys to obscure actual pipeline games

high · Don: 'I think what they did is they probably had about 10 themes they're really working on, and they're like, we can't just put this out because people are going to know our next 10 games'

sentiment_shift: Generational gap in IP recognition: younger audiences unfamiliar with 1980s/90s classics (E.T., Terminator, Arnold Schwarzenegger)

medium · Genghis: teenagers at party 'didn't know what Terminator was' and 'what's Arnold?'

licensing_signal: Stern likely to pursue public domain King Kong (1933) over licensed versions (1986, 2005) to reduce licensing cost

medium · Genghis speculation: 'if Stern does this, it's going to be 1930s King Kong because that's probably public domain'