And that's when I was like, oh, I should know John Crutch's name. Again, we we keep saying this, man. We need to do episodes on all these guys, but it's like John Crutch might be the single most pivotal and influential person in pinball history that zero people talk about. Yeah. You know, Pat's the guy that pushed for these giant interactive mechs and toys in pinball. That's why they're here in pinball. Like, it is all Pat's fingerprints and pushing for it. But Crutch was the guy that actually engineered everything and made all of Pat ideas actually work It like almost not to downplay it too much but it like a Steve Jobs Wozniak situation where you like this dude's actually making this crazy shit happen. Crazy shit work. Survive in a commercial pinball machine, which is an entirely different talent. And you know, like Pat was a very skilled, you know, I don't think he was a classically trained engineer, but he was able to build things in his own garage. And I think that's what made him such a good designer is he was sort of multi-talented in a lot of different aspects. That's why he was so good as like an auteur type of designer. That's how he's known as a person that kind of has literally his hands in every process. But he also clearly picks his teams and then he works with the same people over and over and over again. I think he gets the best out of them. And I think if anyone's going to recognize talent, it's going to be Pat. And when I got to meet him at Expo, you know, I got to speak with him briefly. And I basically was just like, I want to talk about John Crutch. And then so we just talked about John Crutch. And so that was very cool. But, yeah, it's something we should probably highlight more of. But again, speaking of Pat identifying talent, there's one other name associated with this project that fans of the show know very well. And that is, of course, the great up-and-coming at the time programmer, Greg Dunlap, who was assisting with software in DOTS. Greg's been a regular guest. He's a really good asset for the show. He's good at corroborating, like, what we think of as rumor, whatever you can tell us. No, that's not what actually happened at Bally Williams. He really has been a very good addition to the show. Yeah, he gives lots of insights from his days working in the industry, but he's so far removed from the industry that he can tell stories a little bit more freely and kind of discuss what went on and just is a fun. You know, if you're not in the discord, it's worth the price of entry just to see what Greg will post in there, like you said, because I think Greg is really good at also not just the industry stuff and the insight from the business side and what it was like back then. But he's also really good at the old school tournament guy thing where they will super nonchalantly dismiss a great game with some sort of half real, half imagined fatal flaw of a game. Usually it's something like only shoot this one shot all day and don't even dare try and shoot anything else. So if you want to find out why your favorite game actually sucks, Greg is sort of like the Discord's personal encyclopedia of arcane rules knowledge. yeah he'll he has identified more like scoring exploits than most have ever noticed he is like an encyclopedia and he's he knows how every game is actually only one shot deep and he's ready to tell you about it yep yeah okay so obviously this game has an insane amount of talent behind it but as anybody that knows pinball credits there's a lot of games a lot of talent behind them that turn out mid so what makes this game unique why are we doing this episode about it why do i like it so much and what makes it noteworthy. And for me, the big thing about NASCAR is it's all about the playfield design and specifically that iconic track that surrounds the entire game. If you've never played the game before, you launch balls into a circular track that uses magnets to send the ball around multiple times before it enters the playfield. It's like a giant version of Steve Ritchie's getaway supercharger, but it feels more like a Hot Wheels track because of the size. The game physically moves. it'll sway on its legs because of the what balls like whizzing around because they're like really fucking moving in there at a glance the track serves no functional purpose it exists mostly for spectacle and is used liberally throughout gameplay a lot of people will critique the game by being like you're just spending the whole time just watching balls rip around that track where you don't even you don't shoot that track that doesn't do anything like people really will like downplay oh really because of that yep that's a lot of the negative reviews will be like yeah You're just waiting for that fucking track. And even if you take that at that shallow face value, it's still instantly memorable to casual players and conveys the speed of the game. It feels like, so the ball takes two laps, and then it's delivered to the playfield via a diverter since crashing into the test car in the middle. And it just kind of, like, you're in the game. It's like a big boom, and then you're, it's like the ball is just kind of bouncing wild immediately. It is not a safe delivery at all. There's a lot of ways they could have delivered the ball safely from the track, and they chose to just throw it in there at the bash toy and like get you right in there which i love it's just interesting to me because modern pinball designers need to be extremely careful with what they're spending their money on every game has a bill of materials or bom bomb that's what we always say when we're just when we're talking about like the budget of a game pinball guys always just call it the bomb the bill of materials it's the itemized list of parts it'll take to build the game how much everything will cost and modern companies to be extremely careful and maximize this bomb to provide players with a memorable, fun pinball experience while maintaining profitability. But in 2005, Spectacle was worth whatever this cost. It was an insane use of the bill of materials. It required a massive amount of re-engineering what would otherwise be standard pinball parts with the double trough and the subway system. Everything on this fucking launch lane, everything on this game was impacted by the choice to put in this track. And it is primarily for spectacle, and that's kind of like a beautiful thing that we don't see in modern pinball, because that's something that a home buyer gets sick of that quick. But in an arcade, it's crazy, and it makes you remember the game, and it makes you want to play it. It's hilarious and awesome at the same time. I really genuinely think the track is funny, and that's what makes it good. Yeah, NASCAR really is like an insane game. I mean, not only is this like clearly a very expensive game to build, but it's such a big tooling departure from the norm. Like during a time when Gary was still struggling to keep the lights on. And he's always been kind of famously trying to streamline manufacturing costs in general. So we had Greg talking about how they wouldn't let him spec. They wouldn't let Pat spec different colored rubbers because that would cost too much. It would be too much variability. And yet they were allowed to make this shit. Yeah, I know. Which is why, you know, Gary had to see it. He was like, oh, that's cool as hell. That's worth it. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. And I think they had just come off a couple big hits in the company. Right. Like Lord of the Rings had come out. Yeah. And Simpson. So they were selling some units. Post 9-11, dude. Pinball is American. It was money at this point in time. And Pat himself is a huge fan of the sport of NASCAR. But I also find it interesting how this game really feels kind of like a Steve Ritchie cover band design. You know, obviously the oval track was first done in High Speed to the Getaway. But this is also the only fan layout that Pat ever did. And it's the only two flipper game he ever did either. Yeah, that's kind of insane. It's also his fastest playing design as a result. And it's probably most similar to his very first game, Bonsai Run, if you ignore the vertical play field in the back box. Like it's fast like that. Yeah, I can kind of see that. It's got quite a bit of variability, but it is like it. That is the most like simplistic, basic play field he did. Right. Because, yeah, that game's not a two flipper game because there's flippers up in the back box. But the basic. Oh, no, there is a third. There is a third flipper even on that. This is literally the only time he ever did a two flipper game. The only time he ever did a fan layout, which you want to know where our fan layouts go listen to our episode of fan layouts, you know? Yeah. Why we love them and why everyone else should love them, too. But that track that I'm talking about, the big spectacle track, it does also serve a different purpose, and it gives the game a place to park balls other than a trough where players won't forget about them, which is a unique function. Because you know how we like physical ball locks, and it functions like a bizarre – it functions in a way as a physical ball lock, even though that's not where you're actually locking the balls. But if you're in a two-ball, multi-ball, and you have the option to add a third, the third will just start whizzing around the track, waiting for you to hit the hurry-up shot to bring it in. It adds tension in a way unlike other games. It's very cool how they use that. The biggest single thing the track does to impact the game, though, and a big part of why I like it so much, and what you kind of touched on a little bit, is that it takes up a lot of space. And this effectively compresses the rest of the play field, which leads to one of the fastest games Pat ever designed. Wide bodies are generally critiqued. The normal thing you see people bring up when they bring up, well, I don't like wide bodies. It's because they're floaty and they're slow. And that's usually due to long side-to-side bounces and too much available real estate. Not all wide bodies are like that, but that's the critique. Like, you go play a paragon that's not steep, and you're watching the ball go side-to-side. It's miserable. And this is the fucking opposite of that. This is effectively a narrow body, much like— Not even a standard body, like a narrower body. Yeah, it's like a narrow, narrow body. And it plays like it. It plays snappy and fast. It's also kind of notable because Pat did design a little game in the past, Safecracker, which has a third flipper. It also has undersized little flippers. The whole thing is too far from a normal pinball machine to really play like a normal pinball machine. I do think Safecracker is a fun game. It is a fun game. The rules are bizarro. I always have to have somebody explain to me what's going on when I play it because I haven't played it enough. It's time-based and it's, yeah. It's got too much different, and this is just enough different. For me, it's like, it's clearly pinball, it doesn't play that crazy, but it's like, you start playing it and you're like, this is just a basic little fan layout, there's not that many shots, and you're like, my god, it's fast. Some quick playfield thoughts, just for us to discuss. There's a state-changing center bash toy, which is not something you see on a ton of pack games up to this point, but you did see... It's true. You do see state-changing bash toys, but not center bash toys, not available from the lower flippers. one game you did see that on would be roadshow though kind of interesting huh fun game i like state changing bash toys because i like it that you can't just fall into the scoop all the time yeah and then it's like it pops up so there's a test car in the middle and you got to bash it and it pops up and then the scoops available and to stand up target so it it kind of makes it just adds a little bit of variability there and it keeps the two flipper game from feeling stale ever like you said it is just a basic two flipper uh ramp bash ramp layout from pat and it's the only one i could think of i didn't actually do like a thorough check i made sure i checked because i was like safecracker is the one that i was like shit does that have and it does have a little third that hits that spinning disc on the left yep this is the only one and then i made sure i went through each one and i was like pat loves to do three four five flipper games like pat is the king of putting little extra flippers everywhere and really like a lot of his design philosophy except for this game would be almost an antithesis of a fan layout he's like the opposite of making a fan layout game yeah is a pat lawler game you know when people ask what a fan layout is it's kind of one of those things that's really hard to describe and people argue about but what i will say is it's not hard to argue that pat lawler didn't make fan layouts and this is the only one he ever did yeah it is kind of funny and that's why it feels so unique it looks really basic like i just had a glance when you compare it to other pinball machines maybe but it's very very unique in pat's lineup in pat's games have their own flavor even in this more vanilla packaging is what i would say one part of that flavor is delivered via a shocking amount of diverters jammed into this thing like you said this was an expensive fucking game to make and they spared no expense when it came to diverters the track has two diverters on it that allow there's one in the bottom right there's one in the upper left that can get balls into the play field from the track it also has two different post diverters for the ball lock yeah i don't know why it seems like you could accomplish this with one when i'm thinking about it but now because it has to hold the ball but it also has to be able to deliver the ball two different directions then it also has the big windmill which is maybe the funniest part of the game is that there's like a really crudely constructed truck in the back with like a windmill function in it which is a little everything about this game is a little comical but it works well functions as a diverter because it'll stop the cars which sends the balls instead of going up the ramp they'll send to the left it also has the timing tower diverter on the ramp which is like a standard like yeah all return diverter so can go to the left or right flipper and it has your standard gary up post behind the pops yeah even though even though it doesn't serve the function of a launch it's there for like the infield party so it can divert into the three pops hidden behind the bash the bash toy which is just like fucking absurd when i started listing it out i was like oh yeah it's got a lot and then i'm like oh it's got that one too and then it's got that one too and you're like holy shit that's a lot of diverters it's pretty funny another just quick thought for me is that it has one of the fastest orbits uh in in a pinball machine it almost feels like the no fear u-turn or something it's so fucking quick it's good the speed of this game is like man it's it's wild i mean it feels like a steve richie game not only because steve did a lot of fans steve has done two flipper games steve makes fast orbits like this steve famously did the the getaway yep magnet spinning in the supercharger like yeah it does really feel like a little homage to Steve and I say little literally because it's like a tight little package it's like a Steve jr and you know what I know Pat has spoken repeatedly about how he respects Steve Ritchie a lot even though I think when the time when they were both at the top they were both it was kind of like a magic and bird scenario Like it like they both wanted to be the best and be considered the best And their main competition was with each other. But I think that, you know, now they see each other and really respect what what each other has done. And that's not to say that this still doesn't feel like a pat game. Yeah, because it absolutely does. All the like little goofy touches are like that's what makes it a pat game. Yep. But at first glance. Yeah, you can see where some inspiration was pulled. Yeah, for sure. The next thing to talk about the theme, the elephant in the room when it comes to this game. And I think a big part of its bad reputation. I'm admittedly a quote unquote car guy as my buddy Ty was out here visiting us. And he's like, well, yeah, you like NASCAR. Of course, you're a car guy. But I want to point out, I've never watched a NASCAR race in my life. I'm very much into the opposite side of the car spectrum with little motors and big turbos, and this is very much not that. You're too scared of loud and proud, good old American horse purse. That's the problem. Too much of a sissy boy. Well, that might be true. It might be true. But I do think, yeah, like Vin Diesel in Fast and Furious 1, before he's too scared of the Charger or whatever. Oh, yeah. But I do think this game serves on a serious note. I think this game serves well as a post 9-11 American patriotism time capsule. And I like it for that in the same way that I love no fear for being unabashedly 90s. This thing feels like post 9-11 America. It feels like Bush standing in front of a Mission Accomplished banner on the deck of an aircraft carrier. Or Michael Phelps at the 2004 Olympics before he got caught with the bong.