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Lloyd Olson - Pinball Expo 2018 - Pinball News

Pinball News (Pinball Expo 2018)·video·1h 31m·analyzed·Oct 22, 2018
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Lloyd Olson shares 60 years of pinball industry experience and perspectives on modern manufacturing and operator challenges at Expo 2018.

Summary

Lloyd Olson, a 60-year veteran of the pinball industry (arcade owner, tech support provider, and Jersey Jack Pinball contractor), conducts a Q&A panel at Pinball Expo 2018. He discusses his extensive career history, current industry quality standards compared to the 1980s-90s, operator challenges with themed arcade venues (barcades), pricing dynamics in arcade operations, and anecdotes about celebrity visitors and notable games. Key themes include manufacturing quality improvements, the difficulty of barcade business models, and reflections on pinball history.

Key Claims

  • Modern pinball manufacturing quality is at an all-time high compared to the 1980s-90s, especially Stern in the mid-2000s

    high confidence · Lloyd's direct experience as test operator for Lieberman Music Company and current work with multiple manufacturers

  • SS Billiards arcade has been operated under single ownership for 46 years since September 1972, likely the oldest continuously operating arcade under single ownership

    high confidence · Lloyd's personal ownership history and claim about oldest operator involvement

  • Black Knight was the first 50-cent pinball machine in 1981

    medium confidence · Lloyd's recollection as arcade operator, but subject to personal memory

  • Barcades tend to fail within 2-3 years due to unsustainable business model (cheap play vs. expensive drinks/food)

    medium confidence · Lloyd's observation of local barcade failures in Detroit area

  • Jersey Jack Pinball's Wizard of Oz was a significant innovation with big monitor, small monitor, and crystal ball features that other manufacturers followed

    medium confidence · Lloyd's industry analysis, though subject to his interpretation

Notable Quotes

  • “I've spent like 60 years in the industry. I started about four years old, standing on a stool scrubbing play fields.”

    Lloyd Olson@ 0:32 — Establishes Lloyd's credibility and lifetime commitment to pinball industry

  • “Stern out of the box is way better than anything Williams ever did.”

    Lloyd Olson@ 3:56 — Positive assessment of modern Stern manufacturing quality vs. historical standards

  • “I think from all the manufacturers, I think our quality is an all-time high. I mean, there's going to be no such thing as a perfect pin.”

    Lloyd Olson@ 4:10 — Industry-wide quality assessment supporting modern manufacturing despite imperfections

  • “You don't realize it. You know, your food goes up 10%. You know, your gas goes up 20%. Your rent goes up 10%. But you're taking it. You don't really see what's happening.”

    Lloyd Olson@ 27:16 — Reflection on pricing and economic pressures operators faced in 1990s-2000s downturn

  • “Gauntlet. You could just keep shoving money into that thing. That thing was gold.”

    Lloyd Olson@ 31:35 — Reference to Gauntlet as most profitable game in his operation history

Entities

Lloyd OlsonpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyChicago GamingcompanyWilliams ElectronicscompanyJaredpersonDave MarstonpersonRob Burkeperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Boutique pinball project failures (Big Bang Bar, Wizard of Oz, Predator, Papa Duke) represent $2-3 million lost to hobby/industry due to extended timelines, inadequate funding, and unfulfilled pre-orders causing customer caution on new projects

    high · Gene announces a Big Bang Bar project... he lost two, three grand easily a unit... Jack came along, he's going to build Wizard of Oz's... Predator comes along and Papadu comes along... And the other side of the coin, too, is, you know, the people that have lost money on some of the other things, you know, that's like $2 million, $3 million easily that went out of the hobby.

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo 2018 was uncertain whether it would happen; shifted timing of Chicago Gaming participation due to Expo uncertainty; event ultimately held successfully

    medium · Expo was up in the air. We weren't even sure if Expo was going to happen. So they decided to do that [Midwest Gaming Classic instead].

  • ?

    industry_signal: Pinball pricing evolution: Black Knight was first 50-cent machine (1981); inflation analysis showed operators should have raised prices to 75 cents by 1991 to maintain buying power; failure to adjust coincided with 1990s-2000s player base decimation and industry contraction

    medium · The first 50 cent pin was Black Knight in 81... you should have gone to 75 cents a game in 1991 to have the same buying power... from, you know, like Adam's family to medieval madness... the player base was decimated... The players were there. The money they were spending was worth half as much.

  • $

    market_signal: Barcades in Detroit and Minneapolis area opened with initial hype but failed within 2-3 years due to unsustainable business model where cheap play cannibalizes expensive drink/food revenue; Insert Coins arcade spent millions but closed after changing format twice

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.273

0:00
You can't go anywhere. They locked the fucking door. So anyway, I've counted, and I think, how many mugs have we got going here? 14 still?
0:19
13. So two people aren't going to get mugs, so we're probably going to be handing out mugs and shirts to the same lucky winners. So anyway, I don't know if anybody doesn't know me. I've spent like 60 years in the industry. I started about four years old, standing on a stool scrubbing play fields.
0:39
My dad ran an arcade on 8th and Hennepin for years, and later 6th Hennepin. My mother bought SS Billiards of My Hope September of 72, which I've been doing that now for 46 years. For about 22 years, I've been helping people online, fix their games and stuff, in Bay Area amusements, I don't know, eight or ten years. which morphed into Planetary Pinball Supply, which also I've been helping Chicago Gaming now for a few years. And also I've been working for Jersey Jack Pinball on TechSport, too, for five and a half years. And I don't know everything. There's nobody that I wouldn't ever be conceited to ever think I know everything. But I've blown enough crap up that I can hopefully save other people the same mistakes I've made. So anyway, we may as well get right into it. Anybody got any really great questions? Yes, sir, what's your name? The reason I'm asking is because sometimes the audio doesn't always go through on these recordings, so I'll probably repeat some of the stuff so we've got good recordings. Yes, sir.
1:36
Jack Guarneri
person
Mark Ritchieperson
Ben Heckendornperson
Jim Seamersperson
Orin Dayperson
Steve Kordekperson
American Pinballcompany
Lieberman Music Companycompany
SS Billiardscompany
Planetary Pinball Supplycompany
Pinball Expoevent

high · Everybody's like, ooh, whoa, pinball's coming back. And then two or three years go by and they feed on themselves and they disappear... Insert Coins in the warehouse district... put in millions of dollars... They changed format twice... they made it two years.

  • ?

    community_signal: Ben Heckendorn stepped back from Bill Paxton pinball project (may have burned out), initially attempted to sell machine, later sold/gave it away; involvement unclear but suggests project fatigue

    medium · When Ben decided I don't know if he burned out or what, but he tried to sell and then he gave away his playfield rotisserie. And then he decided to sell Bill Paxton.

  • ?

    product_concern: Modern Stern manufacturing (mid-2000s onward, e.g., Pirates of the Caribbean) represents significant quality improvement over Williams era; out-of-box quality substantially better, though occasional assembly line errors (missing legs, power cords) occur

    high · Stern out of the box is way better than anything Williams ever did... I think from all the manufacturers, I think our quality is an all-time high... It is unfortunate if you just unbox your game and set it up, and they forget to, like, you got three legs instead of four.

  • ?

    product_concern: Lloyd criticizes Big Lebowski playfield design, citing miniaturized Gottlieb Strikes and Spares pins as difficult to service and gameplay as poor despite theme popularity

    high · I never cared about it... I think people are just overwhelmed like, that's a big Lebowski. I thought the gameplay sucked... if you think the Gottlieb ones were a pain in the ass to work on, wait till you got to replace a pin.

  • ?

    technology_signal: Bill Paxton homebrew pinball machine required CPU reprogramming; original micro USB cord borrowed and lost during programmer's move to Chicago; machine not designed for commercial use and surprising it has lasted

    high · We've got to reprogram the CPU again... he unplugged my micro USB cord that I loaned him... Then he moves to Chicago. Then he can't find it... Ben Heckendorn said, too, he was amazed it's lasted this long. It was not built for commercial use.

    • Hi, Dave. Everybody say hi, Dave. Hi, Dave. Oh, yeah, my life in times is a lover and a tech support. No, I can't go anywhere without an adventure, and I've often thought of writing down. I had a friend told me in 1994 that, you know, you've forgotten more fun than most people have ever had. I can't go anywhere without, you know, crashing a car, a motorcycle, blowing stuff up. You know, a lot of, I've been fortunate, I've been blessed. I've had a lot of really cool things happen in my life. And also I've often kidded, too, about the chapters to be filled in after I'm gone when the statute of limitations and stuff doesn't matter. but no I've kicked around it's been more of a gag though than actually doing it my main goal when I started when I had web TV on my first thing on Red Games pinball many years ago was just trying to make my little corner of pinball a little bit better and again anything I do always blossoms and blooms and grows and gets way out of hand and that's what it's gotten a life of its own So which would you like, sir? A mug or a shirt? Here, give him a shirt too. Yeah, don't let him see what it says. Yes, sir.
    3:15
    Actually, you know, I don't want to say anything disparaging about any other manufacturers or anything, but I was a test operator, and also besides in my previous history until Williams closed, I was a test operator for Lieberman Music Company for 19 years too. And people today are spoiled. You know, you buy a Williams A-Title pin or whatever nowadays, and by now it's gone through collector's hands. It's been tweaked. It's been fixed. Stuff has been replaced. I never, ever had a game coming out of the box. I didn't spend two, three days, you know, tweaking crap and discovering what was never put in a game and things like that. And honestly, even my experiences with Stern in the mid-2000s, like Pirates of the Caribbean and stuff, Stern out of the box is way better than anything Williams ever did. And my experience with the majority of the manufacturers now, especially when you consider when these things are bounced around the back of a truck, you know, to and fro, I'm surprised there's not more with them. you know, I think from all the manufacturers, I think our quality is an all-time high. I mean, there's going to be no such thing as a perfect pin, you know, and, you know, crap can happen in transit. And even, you know, sometimes, you know, crap can just happen. A new part can fail. And then that's where the manufacturers of the tech support and stuff get you up and running as quick as they can. It is unfortunate if you just unbox your game and set it up, and they forget to, like, you got three legs instead of four, or they didn't send a power cord with. But like I say, you know, the people on the assembly line aren't pinball people. You know, they're assembling and then they go home. But I think, you know, on a whole, I think all the manufacturers today are doing a way better job than they were back in the 90s and 80s.
    4:57
    Do we give him anything? Do you want a shirt or a mug? Yeah, give him a shirt too. Well, I'm not dragging this shit back home. and if nothing else they make really cool cleaning towels hey that's our old friend Dave Marston say hi to Dave is one of the few human beings that's been to Expo every year of course he never goes home either so it's easy hey Dave would you like a mug we better give Dave a mug he's too small for a t-shirt though thank you my friend Thank you for all you've done through Expo and for all the shows and stuff through the years, too. Dave, I don't know if anybody's researched Dave Mars or anything either, but he's done a lot of shows and a lot of things and always been around. I know he's probably one of the few guys that's been at every Expo, outside of Rob Burke, but, you know, he has to be here.
    5:54
    It's like flypaper? What? What'd you say? Did you say it's like flypaper? Flypaper. Wow. Excuse me one second, we had one over here. Yes, sir? . If it fits on there, yeah, look up the motherboard, whatever manufacturer you got, and a processor on there, and whatever's on there, you know, to swap it. And be sure you, you know, ground yourself first. Don't get anything near that CPU or the motherboard with static. Even if you don't feel it, down the road you might have weird stuff. That's why people don't understand what a game ROM is. All of a sudden, a few years go by, you start having some weird problems. Nobody touched the metal plate or anything when they put the change at ROM. It comes back to haunt you.
    6:51
    Would you like a mug or a shirt? Gee, I don't know. That's a tough question. You better give them one of each.
    7:00
    I kind of like when we've got somebody who wants both. Well, besides inventing really cool pinball stuff, Robert's my helper, too. Thank you, Robert.
    7:11
    Thank you. When you put that fan in and you blow the piss out of your game, you want to call 732-364-9900, extension 1222. And don't wait for a voicemail. Just every once in a while try it until you get our service manager, Frank Becker. Talk to him live. Don't blame me.
    7:32
    I told him that after we gave him the shirt. Who's next here, the lady? Yes, ma'am. Well, the guy next to you looks kind of shady, but... I saw him at the circus earlier this year.
    7:54
    The bearded lady. Midwest Gaming Classic? I'm not sure. That's a really tough time of the year. I don't like doing shows in spring. We've still got the crappy weather. It's cold, and my business is really good. And Chicago Gaming sent me to Texas Pinball Festival. And then three weeks later, Doug Skorga, when he was still with Chicago Gaming, called me up and, geez, can you help us out? Because that all came together like a week and a half before. And the way it turned out this year was nice because we had two feet of snow in my area, and I wouldn't have had any business anyway. But it's really a poor time of the year to close for anything. And also, I'm not sure if they're going to do Midwest Gaming Classic next year. I've always loved the show. I was at their last year of Oconomowoc. I was at the first year of Greenfield. And the shows are known for different things. But you walk in there, the gamers had such a level of excitement. You walk in there, there's like electricity in the air. I've always loved that show. It's just a bad time of the year for me. And now Chicago Gaming did that this year because Expo was up in the air. We weren't even sure if Expo was going to happen. So they decided to do that, but I don't know if they're going to go back or not, and then that would also hinge on whether I go back or not. I mean, if I had a choice, I would love to, but I really shouldn't.
    9:13
    You know, because my business is closed when I'm somewhere else, and, you know, it all counts up. Would you like a shirt or a mug?
    9:22
    Yeah, give her a shirt, too. Until we start running out of stuff. Well, I like to let them think they had a choice. Yes, sir.
    9:46
    Kingpin. Kingpin was always my favorite game. I rarely ever get to play. I really suck at playing. People come into my place and think I'm like the world-class tournament player, and I rarely ever play. And when I do, I freely admit it. I suck. On pin side one time, somebody posed, what's your least favorite part of pinball? I was like, gravity. If it's coming at me, it's going away. Multi-ball, yeah, I need a contest to see how quick I can drain more than one ball off the play field. But I have always, always loved playing Mark Ritchie's Capcom Kingpin. I just love that game. And I own part of one years ago, which has gone away a long time ago. But, you know, now that the Circus Maximus group is going to, you know, bring it back so they can fund their pinball circus machine, I was like, score! I still might be able to have one again because like the last one changed hands for 60 grand even if I had money Which I don't but even if I had money that ain't happening But I would love if they do kingpin and I mean there's a lot of great rumor stuff I generally stay out of those though like Doug score when they were starting to remakes told me that they're working on ten titles But he can't tell me what I was like. I don't want to know he's like really well Yeah, if it leaks it wasn't me. I didn't know You know, the same like with Stern, you know, if you work for a competitor or contract for a competitor, they don't want you in the building. But there's two sides to that, too, the same thing. Anything leaks wasn't me. I was never there.
    11:10
    So did you want a shirt or a mug? Oh, okay. We're just going to give them a shirt. We're starting to run out of mugs.
    11:17
    You better give them one of each. Thank you. Well, that's one they've been working on. It is an original. They found an NOS play field. That's what's in there. But you notice it's got the bigger display on it and stuff.
    11:36
    So, yes, sir. I never cared about it. I mean, I know a lot of people love that thing, and they're caught up on the theme, and I hope it gets produced and I hope there's support out there for it so you're not buying a game that as soon as it dies it's a brick. But I've played it a couple times and I think people are just overwhelmed like, that's a big Lebowski. I thought the gameplay sucked. Of course, again, I'm not a great player or anything.
    12:05
    Okay, let's use the Gottlieb Strikes and Spares pins under here but miniaturize them. So if you think the Gottlieb ones were a pain in the ass to work on, wait till you got to replace a pin or something or worked on that goddamn thing. I don't know who invents this shit. But, I mean, the only thing that's got going for it is the, you know, what is it, the black Russian and the bowling alley. I mean, when you get a cool rug, too. Like you can't go to Target and buy a rug.
    12:32
    Especially, you know, the one they had here at Expo, I think it was just like the movie, too. I think somebody peed on it.
    12:40
    Yeah, sorry. And, you know, I hope some way the project comes together. I hope, you know, you get your game. You know, I wouldn't wish anything bad on anybody. I mean, but, see, unfortunately, we had a history of things going on. Gene announces a Big Bang Bar project, and that was totally screwed up just about every inch of the way, but he did get them done, and he lost two, three grand easily a unit. And I think people got caught up in that. And then Jack came along, he's going to build Wizard of Oz's, which again was a trial and tribulation, but he did get it done. And I think a lot of people got caught up in that when these other things, Predator comes along and Papadu comes along. I think a lot of people got caught up in that anybody that says they can do something is going to do it. And, you know, a lot of these people, then they might have the best intentions or the companies might have the best plan and everything else, but, you know, you always run into these little things like, it's going to be two years until we get one out the door and we got, money rolling out of here left and right and stuff. And, you know, it's tough to plan for an industry, and a lot of them just didn't have the backing and stuff. But like I say, I hope whatever they, you know, somebody pulls a project together and does, you know, people get their games, because obviously you like it. I hope you get it. I don't want to see anybody get screwed. And the other side of the coin, too, is, you know, the people that have lost money on some of the other things, you know, that's like $2 million, $3 million easily that went out of the hobby, out of the industry and stuff. That's a big dent in anything in a small niche market. Would you like a mug or a shirt?
    14:11
    Both. Hey, I like when we get both. I was married to one. You don't want to do that. Well, actually, she's half Russian.
    14:23
    Oh, wait one second. There's Jared. Everybody say hi to Jared. Hey, Jared, are you running the Stern thing tomorrow night?
    14:32
    Running it? Well, I know you're a big part of Stern. and I love all the things you do. But I know a couple... I'm glad someone does. Yeah. And a couple years ago, you know, the epic event and stuff, I know it was a lot of your doing. And that's why I was just hoping tomorrow night's get-together had your finger on it somewhere. Yeah, no, no, no. It's just unfortunate.
    14:53
    Yeah, we're going to, you know, we're going to kick it down and have a little bit of a party. But it'll be fun. There'll be a lot of cool stuff. And the way it's day, it's sort of sorted out the schedule so you'll have sort of a series of certain seminars. Yeah, that I liked. Hello. Everybody say hello. Hi. Glad he could make it. Anyway, excuse me, Jared. Yeah, so it's cool. I mean, sort of like, we just got a banquet this year. Sort of like, we still got a party going. Are you still, what was your title? Like social marketing director or something? Same title. Okay. Social media. Yeah, if anybody ever wants any info or anything on Stern, Jared's your man. He is really cool. Not to mention the world's largest Nerf battles and all these other great things he does.
    16:03
    Thank you, Jared. Do you want a mug or a shirt? Well, the shirts are 2XL. Well, no. No, but you're big in the shoulders. I don't know if a 2XL.
    16:22
    Yeah. Because I've always loved Jared, and I love all the stuff he does. He's a great man. when you're eventually, you know, it's one of the oldest, have you talked about this, it's one of the oldest continue operating arcades in the world. I think it was the oldest in 1970. Well, yeah, the strip mall was completed in November of 70 and that was one of the original tenants. My involvement is from September of 72, which I'm sure there's an older arcade or two throughout the world, but I'm probably... Yeah, well, and also I'm probably the oldest under single ownership. You know, it's just over 46 years now. Oh, there goes the people coming to visit. Thanks, Jared.
    17:18
    Just a second. We had a couple more over here, too. Anyway, Jared, thank you. Thank you for all you do, especially being directly involved with Stern. I really love that.
    17:34
    Yeah. actually growing and getting stronger. There's information I can't share with you, but if you trust me when I say it, it's very strong. It's very strong, and I'm excited about it. Thank you, Jared.
    18:16
    Let's see, we had, I'm forgetting, was it, yes, sir? Speaking of your arcade, what do you guys have more problems with, full players or pinball?
    18:27
    You know, not really. Now, I've never really had the problem, pinball players. I mean, like during the video fad days, you know, we had a fair amount of idiots. And about the only bad thing with pool, like when the Color of Money movie came out, I went through more fluorescent lights that year than, oh, I would just love to, you know, give Tom Cruise a wedgie and kick him in the nuts. You know, because every moron that cannot shoot one or two balls in at a time can spin a pool cue. So, but I, and of course I'm too old to babysit people. I often laugh when people come in, have you ever been held up? Hey, you've seen how I treat people I like.
    19:09
    What do you think is going to happen? You know, and I have been not there working for my dad and stuff. I have had guns pulled on me. I have been shot at. It didn't impress me.
    19:18
    You know, so you come in and my place think you're going to fuck around. You've got another thing coming.
    19:23
    Did you want to, we've got to watch it. We've got enough left here. Uh-oh, we only got four mugs. And plus we've got a couple more questions that way. Did you want a mug or a shirt?
    19:32
    Mug. Better give them a mug in case if we start running out of stuff. Let's see. I'm not sure who was next. I don't want to do this out of order. I don't want to piss anybody off. Do you have a preference?
    19:46
    Animal, sheep, mineral? I mean, sheep can't yell rape. Sheep cannot say no. Well, I guess you're it. What's your question, sir?
    20:06
    Well, my own personal opinion, again, I'm not a great player. You know, I love the way the industry's gone. You know, pinball never had a fad. Video games did have a fad. Pinball rode with. All of a sudden, 50,000 arcades opened up in one year, extra arcades. and they couldn't all get the latest Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man, asteroids, whatever. And pinballs went along with that because they'd take up the space to video games. So operators would buy a pinball machine or two, and then as soon as they could get the video game they wanted, the pinballs would go out. But pinballs always grown by leaps and bounds. It was mechanical. Then they put a battery in there. Then they put a power cord on it. Then they put a back box on it. You know, then you had little numbers that light up, 10, 5, 10, 20, 30, whatever the hell. And, you know, and then you had pop bumpers. Then you had pop bumpers that actually worked. You know, you had flippers. You had, thanks to the great Steve Kordek, you had flippers put in the right place. You know, you had score reels. You had all the dummy score reels. You had all the fake scoring. You know, eventually you had little Dixie Narco tubes. You know, eventually we were starting to put. And my greatest thing when they're going solid state, that's going to cut down on maintenance. I was like, right, it's still a pinball machine. You're just sneaking a board in there. You're creating more problems. But then we eventually, you know, we got into the, you know, numeric, the alphanumeric, the multi-level play fields, DMDs. You know, pinball never had a fad, but it's always grown by leaps. And I think Jersey Jack Pinball, Jack Guarneri, I think, you know, is probably one of the ones with the Wizard of Oz. All of a sudden we've got a big monitor and a little one and a crystal ball and things like that. That was a big leap. And I think a lot of the companies have followed suit with that. You know, Stern has done great things with their displays and stuff. You know, the American Pinball is doing it. I mean, you know, pinball has to grow. And I think it's gone in a lot of great directions. And I think it's still growing. I think it's still evolving, but I really like where it's come from.
    22:15
    Do you like a mug or a shirt? I don't know if we're going to have enough, so I've got to slow down on that. If we've got any left over, you can grab something off the table that's left.
    22:26
    Uh-oh, give him a mug. And then we had this nice gentleman over there. Yes, sir. Sir? I'm sorry, I heard the most famous person.
    22:39
    I didn't catch the rest of that. Who the most There been a lot Todd McCulloch been in there Ed from Bare Naked Ladies Rhodey from Aerosmith
    22:52
    I mean, I don't know if I've ever, you know, because everybody's the same to me. You behave yourself, whether you spend a quarter, you spend a hundred bucks, you know, everybody's the same to me. So I can't say that I've really kept track of, you know, stars or anything. The only reason I meet some of them, like Ed when he was up here, you know, we went out to, My Internet provider was there, and we went out and had, where did we go, Perkins or something, had dinner. Then I took him back to his hotel and stuff. I'm typically noon to midnight every day. But traveling people are an important part of my business. And if they need to get in early, if they need to get in late, if they need to be picked up at the airport, if they need to be hauled back to a hotel, I usually try to figure something out. But, you know, I have had, you know, famous people in there. And, you know, we had one guy that went over and held up a grocery store and shot a guy to death. I had that guy. One of my old time personal favorites, I probably shouldn't mention names, but our eight time convicted felon, I always liked him. He was great though when he'd help on my internet provider move games. He had a low cube truck that we had to back a video game up to and this guy would stand in there, pick him up and pull him in. Hey, that's like 325 pounds and this guy, and he apologized to me, I think I've got a hernia, I've been moving a little slow tonight.
    24:08
    Okay, you're picking up 300-pound things and throwing them around, and I'm always going to be polite to you.
    24:15
    Would you like a mug or a shirt? Uh-oh. Two more. Just one second. Excuse me, I want to catch Dave since he's on the front row here. Yes? So, I've seen a couple mentioned in the past year of a new barcade opening in your city. There's been a couple. Well, you know, this was going on in Detroit like a decade ago. Everybody's like, ooh, whoa, pinball's coming back. And then two or three years go by and they feed on themselves and they disappear and nobody says anything. Can you make it more of a pinball mecca that they can go there and go to Eskimo? Well, it's two different crowds. It is a barcade. Not everybody's into the bar scene. And a lot of people see where they usually feed on themselves. A lot of people go there because you can play for cheap. But then when you start adding up what you blow on the expensive drinks, expensive food, you had to park three, four blocks away. All of a sudden, oh, Lloyd, don't seem so bad.
    25:09
    So it's a, you know, and I like to see pinball growing. I wouldn't wish them anything bad. I hope they thrive and stuff. It's just, well, there was Insert Coins in the warehouse district a few years ago, and they put in millions of dollars. I don't believe they had pinball, but they had like 30 classic arcade games and all the new high-tech where you wear the goggles, 3-D bowling. I mean, it's just a multimillion-dollar operation. And they changed format twice. Yeah, they made it two years. Because, you know, your people that are playing for cheap ain't drinking, and your people that are drinking are subsidizing the gameplay. And that usually feeds on itself. I hope not. Like I say, I wouldn't even wish an enemy a bad time. You never screw with how a guy makes a living. But, you know, barcades, you know, they've been around in different areas, and they get hot for a while, and they usually disappear.
    25:55
    You already got a mug, so sorry. Anyway, and I missed a guy. Oh, back there with a hat. Yes, sir. I didn't know it was broke. Or is it running right now? Yeah, it's been on the floor for years. You know, back in the mid-2000s when everything went to hell and I was selling equipment trying to stay open. And hindsight is 20-20. I should have raised my price per play sooner. But, you know, when I started running out of equipment, he's been on the floor ever since. It wasn't that he's broke. I used to just bring him in for special events. But, like I say, the first 50 cent pin was Black Knight in 81. And when I did finally, which was funny in itself, I had been thinking of raising prices for some time, but when I finally did it, my Internet provider, he loves to scrounge up information. He found a U.S. Government Cost of Living Index year by year by year by year. He said, you know, you should have gone to 75 cents a game in 1991 to have the same buying power. I was like, see, I always thought, you know, like from, you know, like Adam's family to medieval madness, some of the greatest pinball machines ever made were there, but the player base was decimated. And I was wrong. The players were there. The money they were spending was worth half as much. And you don't realize it. You know, your food goes up 10%. You know, your gas goes up 20%. Your rent goes up 10%. But you're taking it. You don't really see what's happening. In hindsight, it's always 20-20. And I knew I was losing ground. Well, all the operators were. Now they're slowing down buying equipment. Distributors are slowing down ordering. Manufacturers are coming back in production. Well, by 95, 96, we're on a roller coaster to hell. And there's just no putting the brakes on then.
    27:42
    Do we get you a mug or a hat? Uh-oh. We got two mugs left? Okay, just excuse me one second here. Did you want a mug or a shirt?
    27:58
    Oh, hey, Rob, get back here. Yeah, put that mug back. And bear in mind, too, I don't know everything in the known planet. Most of my, whatever I talk about, you know, from my own personal experience, other people have got different ones. Anyway, guy in a red shirt, what's your question?
    28:21
    Wait, how old are you? Oh, man, I don't think you can be in here. you sure as heck can't have a shirt or a mug anyway what's your question sir what's your name Bill how did you end up with the Bill Paxton pinball machine not in the right place at the right time when we were doing that refresh Chris that ran that he had done some voice work for Ben Heckendorn so we kind of had a foot in the door when that project when Ben decided I don't know if he burned out or what, but he tried to sell and then he gave away his playfield rotisserie. And then he decided to sell Bill Paxton, which, like I say, I think we're just at the right place at the right time. And unfortunately now, more recently, we're here about half a year ago. No, it was probably about four months ago. We've got to reprogram the CPU again. Well, the first time when we had that, my friend Jim Seamers did that for me. He was on the phone with Ben Heckendorn and got the software, and we reprogrammed it. Everything's all hunky dory. Well, we've got to do that again. Well, the time when Jim did that, he unplugged my micro USB cord that I loaned him. And there's a little green board on the processor went with. And we didn't realize at the time he had that. Then he moves to Chicago. Then he can't find it, because in moving, everything got. But now, I just talked to him today, and he did find it. But he might not be at the show tomorrow. But if he doesn't come back, he's going to come back to Minnesota at some point and reprogram it. I've also thought of just putting in a storage for right now because it's kind of lost the wall factor. And Ben Heckendorn said, too, he was amazed it's lasted this long. It was not built for commercial use.
    30:01
    So anyway, that's how we ended up with Bill. Would you like a shirt or a hat, a mug? Uh-oh. Yeah, don't let them see this side.
    30:16
    Well, originally I was going to have a separate mug. I survived the LTG show and then that, but I didn't have the budget this year to do separate mugs. And we don't have enough to go around, so that's where we're at.
    30:29
    Uh-oh, last mug. Thank you for helping, Martin. Yes, sir. What's your name? Oren. Oh, Oren Day. Everybody underground now.
    30:43
    Sorry, I didn't, you know, looking down at this perspective, I forgot. Orin has been in the pinball industry forever. Wasn't your claim to fame Twister? One of them.
    30:54
    Orin's worked for some of the Sega. Sega, Day-D, Stern, what's the difference? Orin's been around forever. He's really a great guy. You ever want to meet somebody who's well worth the time, really cool to talk to? Yes, sir. So I have a positive question, and you can follow up with a negative response if you want. I would never do that. But, I mean, your last girlfriend was so fat that she was invaded by a militia, and now she's known as the Republic of your girlfriend.
    31:25
    Okay, now we've got that out of the way. What's your question? So what game have you operated over your illustrious career that has been the most pleasant earnings surprise? Gauntlet. You could just keep shoving money into that thing. That thing was gold. Most people paid for their gauntlets in, like, seven days. and what was your surefire success game that you loved and bought and it didn't make any money at all? Well, you know, a lot of these games, you know, I was a test operator for Lieberman Music Company for 19 years, but I always bought the game, you know, because I thought, you know, I'm getting the game for free and then give it back. It's not a fair test. You know, if I told you a game was good, you know, it was good, and if I told you it sucked, it sucked. One that I thought really had potential, and, of course, again, I'm not, you know, a great video game player. There was only two I could ever play, Wizard of War and Pole Position. But one I thought would, maybe not the next Pac-Man or anything, but I thought, you know, Midway's War Gods I thought was pretty good. That one didn't even become what I would refer to as the 30-day wonder. That thing was dead in the water before it started. And of all the things, I'm not sure who designed that game, but his mother and another lady stopped into my business, and she asked me, you know, hey, how's that game doing? I said, it sucks. I said, that thing's the worst piece of shit that was ever made. And, well, maybe you don't have it in the right location. I was like, lady, this room's 1,800 square feet. Where would you advise I moved a fucking thing?
    32:53
    But there's been some lemons through the years. I mean, because testing, I often got games, I took them whether I liked them or not. And for me, too, I'm not passionate about this. No matter how much I think a game is great or how much I love it or anything else, it's always going to come down to the cash box for me. So how about pinballs? How about pinballs for that question? Well, you know, I did not buy every pinball machine. You know, because when I buy a video game back when things were, times were good, when I buy a video game, my gross goes up. You buy a pinball machine, your gross don't move. You're just moving money around the room. So I can't say that I ever really had a dog or anything. You know, I did test a lot of pinball machines. But, you know, without the gross going up or down, it was just kind of hard to tell if I ever had a... I mean, there's some I didn't buy for reasons.
    33:40
    One of my least favorite things to work on was Rudy's head, and Roadshow had two of them, and you've got to take Ted out to get to Red. I thought, I don't care if that's the greatest game in the world. I ain't touching it. And then I was supposed to test Gilligan's Island, and when I went out to pick it up, they had it plugged in, and that little buddy, little buddy, little buddy. I thought, man, if I hear this fucking thing, I'm going to be killing people by 5 o'clock.
    34:04
    That one stayed at the distributor. That one did not come home. And then there's been some, too, like at the height of the Pac-Man craze, when Pac-Man was the greatest.
    34:14
    I had a cocktail table one, and at the height of Pac-Man, I didn't have any. I noticed a problem with that. Somebody would come in, they'd get two bucks for the quarters, they'd put $1.75 on a glass, they'd be playing a game. People would walk in, oh, somebody's playing it, we won't get on it. They'd leave. And I thought, damn, that thing's costing me money. So as an experiment, I put it in the trunk of my car, and I hauled it home for a few days. And then people would come in, oh, they don't have Pac-Man. Oh, what else have they got? They'd stay and spend money.
    34:45
    Pac-Man went in. And, of course, at the beginning, you cannot get Pac-Man. You know, the distributors were way behind on orders and everything else, and especially a cocktail table one. That thing was gold. They were happier than hell to have that come walking back in. So, I mean, there's been different surprises through the years, too, things that worked out, things that didn't. Did you want a mug or a shirt? I'll take a mug. Our last mug. We might have to give IOUs. I still have a few I was saving for tomorrow, but they're not here. We only have one shirt left. Hey, Robert, you want to run up to my room and grab some more mugs? I'm sorry?
    35:35
    Uh-oh. Hey, we can sit here and tell dirty stories when Robert can go get some more mugs. Is everybody okay with that?
    35:44
    Pardon? Or not? What the fuck are you babbling back there? Oh, I thought you meant whether Robert went up and got mugs or not. I thought, what the fuck?
    36:07
    I'm doing a fine job, sir. You notice I'm the one with the microphone? Do they give a shit? Yeah, and it's cut open. Probably grab a whole layer.
    36:36
    Nine more? I think that should be about able. We can do some more questions and answers since somebody's opposed to my telling any more stories.
    36:48
    Hey, Lloyd, what do you think about the punch-out and the super punch-out back in the 80s? I don't think I ever had a super punch out. I love punch out. I had the two monitor one. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Damn good game. That's a damn good. Yep, good earner, a lot of fun.
    37:06
    Had a good following. The only thing of that that kind of didn't do good, Sega had that real heavy duty one that was like on six casters, and you had those big handles, and you had a literally box. That was a great idea. I sold more pop in those weeks than ever before. But you literally had to take the circuit board out of there and re-solder everything on it like once a week. So that only made it about six weeks in my arcade. But that thing hauled in money, and my pop sales went through the roof.
    37:37
    Yeah, I never got. I usually stayed away from the kits and the conversions and stuff up until about the time when we were having like Mortal Kombat 4 and Killer Instinct 2. And they were pooping out games so quick. and I called them 30 Day Wonders and they made a great game for conversion like I put a police trainer kit in my Killer Instinct 2 and that game was in my top 5 for almost a decade and I had the head of Sega stop by one time that was right before Jurassic Park was shipping the sit down Jurassic Park and he was asking about games and stuff and I asked him because they had come out with what was it they had just come out with I think it was House of the Dead or something that they made. And I might be wrong on the title, but it was like too expensive. I said, you know, you've got a Virtua Fighter board in there, you've got a generic power supply and a monitor, and you've got a $2,000 cabinet, and there's no way in hell to justify the price on this. I said...
    38:44
    Yeah. Well, and also, like Sega, you know, when I got that Sit-Down Virtua Racer that was originally supposed to be in a Formula One body. I get this big, huge fiberglass thing that's the size of a pool table, and they put a Sonic the Hedgehog decal on it, charged 10 grand extra. Yeah, I love that one. But anyway, I was telling a guy from Sega, why don't you make me a cheap kit? Police trainer was like, 1,300 bucks, and it's in my top five all the time. If you make me a cheap kit that I can make money on, I can afford to buy your high-price shit. Well, we made a kit, nobody bought it. Well, yeah, a soccer kit. That was real popular in America back then. and it was a $5,000 kit. I said, did you see a problem with that? Yeah, and this clown, the Liebermans had their fall show and I was playing to sit down at Jurassic Park. He comes in, sits down, tells me all what to do and everything and their Tyrannosaurus Rex is chasing us in the Jeep and it grabs his guy and hauls him off and eats him and he's like, shoot him, shoot him. I'm like, why? I don't like you.
    39:39
    And then I pointed a gun at him too. Bing, bing, bing. You know, this don't work. I need a better gun. Yeah, the manufacturers always love me. I like panhandling them too. I had the head of Midway comes in, or one of the guys from Williams, wasn't Midway, it was Williams. And I had my donation jar on the counter. I always had some scam running, the Muffy Fund, the bigger speaker fund, something. And I asked him, you know, did you know your contributions to the fund are tax deductible? So he digs around, he's going to give me a couple of quarters. I was like, well, the guy from Sega gave me a dollar. So he digs out his wallet, puts a fine in. And then my sales rep from the distributor is with, and he's just ready to crawl under the table. He's like, oh, my God, I've got to go back and listen to this now. Why did you bring him to see me to begin with?
    40:27
    And I always loved when these guys would come visit, like when they have a Williams Pinball School one night. I had an obnoxious drunk come in the last thing, and he was complaining about high scores on games, accusing me of setting them. Yeah, after I'm done for the day, I sit here, take the glass off, and play with a play field for an hour to put up a high score. Really? You really think that I do this?
    40:48
    And, you know, I get up early the next morning and run out to the distributor because I'm supposed to go to the damn operator school. And, you know, usually there's always screwed up. The game wouldn't be there. The manual wouldn't be there. There's always some kind of hell going on. And finally the instructor shows up hungover. It was that moron. God, you just get me to shut up.
    41:09
    Anyway, I had another question. Yes, sir. Can we turn off the lights so that we scare Roger when he comes back? Roger who? I mean, Robert, sorry.
    41:20
    Yeah, everybody left. And then we all hop up and yell, surprise, happy birthday. Yes. Nah. All right. You know, he's young and he's a good guy, and I've already been pretty hard on him. So there's lots of discussions out there about the arcade one-up. which are the little tiny ones you can buy at Walmart, Best Buy. Oh, okay. Yeah, I've seen them. I've not played them or anything. Do you feel that that will be a positive?
    41:45
    It doesn't matter anymore. The thing that really fucked us right up the ass was when video games were coming out. Earmuffs, buddy.
    41:54
    Well, I told him he didn't belong in here. Is that your kid? He's good. Yes. He's my helper. That's like child endangerment or something. He could be arrested. I like to think I'm broadening his horizons.
    42:07
    Go home and tell your mom about how broad your horizon is now. Don't do that. But so many times, and we were begging for a time frame. A video game would come out, and a month later you could play it at home. And like Sega's Michael Jackson Moonwalker was available on the home market first. It's like, we can't swallow this crap. We're paying for the development. We can't swallow this crap this fast.
    42:33
    but not like i say now and now i don't think it matters i mean the coin op industry is gone you know half the golden tea lives do good half don't buck hunters have died touch screens are dead you know the you know e-tunes or whatever is not doing good hey that can do we get you a mug or a shirt i'm good no you but the other other guy oh he's good too oh my room key
    43:03
    You guys missed it before when I had that sex offender here that I didn't know was a sex offender. This guy was into pandas. And, yeah, that was my seminar, I think, was on Thursday night then. I'm not sure. But anyway, I hadn't slept for two days, drove here, did the stuff all day. About midnight I go up and I try to get some sleep. And he went to stay with somebody else that night. supposedly relatives in the area, I hope. But anyway, I wake up about 1.15. I just got a killer headache, and I didn't turn the light on. I'm debating if I try to lay back down or if I need an Advil. Then I'm sitting there in a bed, and I'm looking over in the dimly lit room, and there's nine pandas lined up staring at me.
    43:53
    Jesus Christ. Then, of course, I did not know this clown's history. And, you know, I was like, oh, my God, two years I've crossed state lines with a registered sex offender, if we get pulled over for a traffic ticket, you could be coming to my arcade and seeing this red tag on there, no children allowed or something. I mean, you did not think of letting me know this crap, but thankfully now he is locked up for life, so we'll probably never see him again. And I mean, I never, I had a pedophile come into my business in the early 70s, and he went out quicker than he came in. Of course, I had his attorney wanted to sue me and all kinds of stuff. But that guy fit all the classic, everything I'd ever learned about pedophiles, because you come into my business, I keep an eye out for your safety. But this guy, I thought at best he was a cross-dresser or a big kook. He did not fit any of the normal stuff I've ever seen or heard or read.
    44:44
    I was just like, holy God. Yeah, even our eight-time convicted felon that I like, he was helping a friend. I mean, the guy is just like a human forklift. He's helping a friend of mine doing a heating, air conditioning install up on a business building. When Terry got over there, he didn't realize that, oh, my God, this is a bank. You know, I am a convicted felon. They might not want me in here. It's like, well, we're outside. It's okay. But, I mean, here's our eight-time convicted felon who had the integrity to warn Marlo that if this is a problem, you know, we've got to get you somebody else. And here I got this other clown who didn't even think to tell me little things like, hey, I could destroy your business and get us arrested if we get pulled over. You know, God, that was amazing times.
    45:28
    Anyway we got more mugs now We got any more questions Come on be brave I don bite Yeah. Oren's got a question. Yes, sir. So have you seen any uptick in business since you got your new sign? Well, see, everything, it's just been strange. I mean, every time, like in the last 14 years or something, every time I see light at the end of the tunnel, It's like a train coming at me. And last year I had the freeway east of me closed for 10 months. So people would have trouble getting in or couldn't get in because of traffic patterns and stuff. You know, I lose a customer. It's tough replacing them. And kind of got through that okay. I mean, it was not pretty. Right after that, the landlord, after 47 years or something, decides to tear off all the wood shingles and put up all new signage because I had a nice sign. But when you got down to the other end of the building, They look like ghetto signs, hand-painted and everything else. It all looks real pretty and stuff. I can't say that I've really seen an uptick because of that freeway closing. And I had a mediocre winter. It was okay, but not where it should have been. I had kind of a good summer, but now October is just, you know, well, for cold and rainy, it hasn't been nowhere where it should be. So, I mean, it's just all over the map right now, so I can't really honestly say if the new signage helped or not. I mean, just, you know, the facelift on the front after all these years and get rid of all the ghetto signs and stuff. Sure as heck didn't hurt anything.
    46:56
    Where we got him? Uh-oh. There's Gary Flower. Everybody say hi, Gary. Hi, Gary. Okay, sit down and shut up.
    47:05
    Yes, sir. Thank you. Yes, sir. Nobody likes Gary. I was just kind of curious. I mean, through your years, would you say... Hey, Gary, get back here. We've got to give you a prize.
    47:19
    Come on, Gary. Come on, you're okay. Did you have a question? Oh, just one second. I thought you were just kidding around over there. Just let me get this guy. I'm sorry, Gary. We'll get you a mug. Yes, sir. With the advancements in pinball and definitely its growth, would you say the demographic, the age demographic of your clientele now is going down? Younger people? See, here's a problem, too. I could not give you a worldwide view of that because, No, but I mean, I've been here so many years, I get a big age spread on people.
    47:55
    I get people come in that have been coming in here since before I had the place. I get people older than me. I get people younger. Generally, you don't see the younger kids. They're all texting. When I was growing up, there's toy trains and dolls. Kids that grew up in the video fad days are into the arcade games and game rooms in their basement. Kids today are texting and stuff. It's not that they're not into pinball. It's just not what they're into. So I typically don't get the afternoon, you know, after school crowd or anything. Usually when you see younger people, they're coming in with parents. So the people playing the pinball machines, you don't find, you know, it's mostly us old pin side RGP people? Pretty much, at least my experience for me. Now, some results might be different, but my experience has been generally a little bit older crowd, you know, probably mid to late 20s and higher.
    48:44
    Did you want a mug or a shirt? You gave me a mug already, I appreciate it. Oh, darn. Gary. Hi there. Hi, Gary. Everybody say hi, Gary. Gary, you're still with Stern, aren't you? Yeah, that's right. Okay, everybody say hi, Gary. Hi, it's Gary Flower. I love giving him crap, but he's really a great guy. Back in, I don't know, eight years ago, when I moderated at the first Jersey Jack fireside chat, someone afterwards went over to Jersey Jack and asked, why did they let me moderate when I worked for Stern? And kind of all hell broke loose, because of course I don't work for Stern. I live in England. It's a hell of a journey into work every day from there. So I just thought I'd share that with you. It's one of the stories about my appearances at Expo over the last 34 years.
    49:42
    Yeah, I'm not in charge of Expo. I don't know why you got picked as moderator. I remember at the time, I don't remember the exact. I don't even think I went to the seminar.
    49:52
    I'm trying to think. But I know afterwards there was some flack. And I know the next year Mike had approached, maybe it was Rob Burke. Well, Mike approached me and tried to throw me out of the show because I hadn't told him that I worked for Stern. Yeah, and I think everything was kind of okay, but I remember there was some flack. Hey, everybody say hi, Joe. Hi, Joe. I remember there was some flack, and then the next year,
    50:18
    I think it was Mike sent Jack an email, wanting to know if he wanted Gary Flowers moderator again. He said, I want Lloyd. So I was moderator that year, which was kind of fun. And then the second year, the next year, he wanted me as moderator again, And I gave the introduction, gave him the microphone. I never had anything to say the rest of the time. Yeah, yeah. I think ever since then he's done the job himself. Yeah. And I always like to try to be honest up front. Like on Pennside, you know, I've got the JJP on my thing because I don't have room for CJC and PPS and stuff on there. But I always like to let people know where my, you know, thinking, posting, opinion, anything, where it's coming from. And now whether anybody – and I remember at the time there was some flack about it. But, again, I just wasn't, you know, firsthand privy knowledge to it or anything. And, you know, anything that didn't go as planned, I am sorry because you are a great guy. You're great in the industry. You've got a big history in the industry. I love giving you shit, but, you know, you've been around forever because, like, same with the multimorphic thing when you were over in that seminar down in Texas here a couple, what, two, three years ago. But, no, you've been around for forever, and, you know, people weren't happy. I don't know what happened or whatever, but I am sorry because you surely deserve better than that. but well it would have been nice if someone asked me if there was any truth in it that's all i just i'd never really give a shit either way you know because like i say it uh i don't even remember if i remember like right after there was some flack i think i was not talking to maskello at that time i don't even think i was at that seminar but uh i remember there was some scuttlebutt briefly after but i just didn't pay that much attention to it good or bad but anyway you're a tremendous asset to pinball and everything else and me on i'm sorry if anything bad bet as are you i'm sorry as are you
    52:07
    martin keeps every time i try and get the microphone he pulls it back he's he's a big tease i've heard him before i did not say arsehole what do you mean i'm an asshole I know that you don't have to tell everybody no I've just I've always been trying to be low key and underplay things like I said I just want to make my little corner of pinball better this is like late night with Letterman because you know nobody lives forever there's going to be a day where I'm gone and I just like if anybody at some point that I helped you fix a machine or figured out where you could get information to fix a game or a game of my I just hope that whatever I left a little just a little tiny bit, pinball is a little bit better because I'd gone before. I'm not looking to be a hero or a fan. Like the LTG and stuff, I mean, anything I do always blossoms and blooms and gets out of hand quick, and I never wanted that. I just wanted to make a little bit of pinball a little bit better.
    53:07
    So, Gary, would you like a mug or a shirt? I'll go with the shirt. Oh, no, our last shirt. Well, I'm not sure. See, me and Mike had something worked out in case we ever got in trouble. Thank you, Gary. Thanks for all you do. No, me and Mike had something worked out because we weren't supposed to have beer here, and I don't know if Rob Burke, I didn't even ask him. But, see, if we ever got in trouble, you know, Mike would come storming in. You know, what the hell are you doing tonight? You know, with the hotel people in tow. And I'd be, it was a private party. I didn't know.
    53:44
    And, of course, three hours later we'd be laughing about it. But, see, I don't know if Rob Burke could do that or not. And then last year, you know, I did remember beer, but I didn't get ice. But I was thinking this year we better wait and see how things go. I don't want to get me in trouble, especially if I get thrown under the bus or anything, because I don't know if Rob Burke's got Mike's personality for yelling and screaming and not meaning it easily. I mean, sometimes he means it, sometimes he don't. But, I mean, we had that worked out ahead of time in case we ever got in trouble so he wouldn't get one of them $1,000 fines or something.
    54:18
    Oh, that's why I brought the garbage bags and stuff so I could sneak it in here. Uh-oh. Let's see. Have you made plans what's going to happen to SS Billiards when you decide to hang up your Q-stick? It's gone. I'm there until I die. License is probably not transferable. Lease is probably not transferable. It's gone. That's why I was at – there's one of these – I think it's more of a video game convention. And they're like me two, three times a year. And they were in Minneapolis a few years ago. And they wanted me down there as a speaker because they started adding pinball to it. But they raised like a million and a half dollars for charity with these contests and stuff that are going on. And somebody had asked that same thing. And they said, well, that's too bad. And I was like, too bad? I'm going to be fucking dead. What the hell do I care about too bad? I'm not going to be here. So that was my one and only time there. But it was fun. They want me to talk for 20 minutes. Of course, an hour and a half later, we're still telling dirty jokes, having a great time.
    55:23
    Anyway, would you like a mug, sir, because we're out of shirts? Pardon? I'm good. I know you're good. I mean, I've heard the rumors. You know, women are talking out in the hall and everything. But do you want a mug?
    55:37
    You don't want one? But look. See, you see this side. You haven't seen the other side. well this is the one that you can show people it says I officially got mugged
    55:52
    sold they're five bucks each it's getting pretty good when I can't even give shit away I still like some years ago on my seminars somebody sent their little girl up there don't you have anything better get the hell out of here Jesus.
    56:15
    That was when I had translates also. We had a lot of neat stuff donated that year. And they said, don't you have something better? Yes, sir. Has it ever gotten so bad that you consider shutting down the industry?
    56:29
    About twice a day. No, during the mid-2000s stuff, I was selling everything. It wasn't nailed down. It's pretty much, I mean, I left the house going and everything because the business is where I get food. That comes first. I mean, if I was younger and had money and could go do anything else, believe me, I would have done that 15 years ago, 20 years ago. And I never dreamt of being there so many years. You know, the average life of a gamer then was a year and a half, two years, which was the guy that had opened it was going to sell it or close it at the end of his lease. I never dreamt of being there five years, 10 years, 20 years.
    57:03
    But, yeah, well, and also, too, I never wanted to get into redemption. That's kiddie gambling. It's dirty money. but like in 2005, 2006, I don't know how many times I'm sitting there thinking that how many redemption games I could get with the clothes getting its pinballs out of here. So, you know, we had different things through the years. You know, air hockey was big, football was big, the little video fad thing, then the video fad, and we have not had something new for too long. And I always keep hoping to stick out until that something new comes along, but coin op is dead. I think, you know, like at one time in Minneapolis, there's over 300 operators alone in the city of Minneapolis near me. There's like 30 operators in the state right now. I mean, I don't think there's anything new coming along anymore.
    57:49
    Did you want a mugger? Oh, we can't give him a shirt. We got this really cool cardboard thing so you can hang on your wall or you can have a mug.
    57:58
    Ooh, another mug customer. I will have my trusty helper, Robert, deliver that for you. You can't have the one I'm spinning in.
    58:10
    Oren got that one. Uh-oh. Oh, I thought we were going to do it for the book and the chapters that can't be put in until later.
    58:25
    Oh, there's been... I've done some stupid things through the years and I've always been the kind of person, And I don't get even. I get ahead. And I've been chastised about this through the years. In fact, Jack, when I was out in New Jersey for training, had brought up a few things he heard of. And I was like, you know, you wave that cape in front of the bull three, four times, eventually that son of a bitch charges. And I will, myself personally, I will put up with a lot of stuff. You don't fuck with a friend of mine. And if you screw with how I'm making a living, man, you are fair game. I got no problem putting you in the ground.
    59:00
    Oh, we had another question? Is there a story behind the LTG and the duck symbol on your pin side? That's a goose. If you want to win quality prizes here, get this shit right. No, again, any time I do shit, it gets out of hand. You know, many years ago, mid-'70s, the first video games, they didn't have battery backup to keep high scores. And right about that time, one time I had made up T-shirts with, you know, somebody accused me of having my own army, so I had Lloyd's Army on the back of the shirt. It's really cool. So, well, when I would unplug a game and fix it, repair it, or whatever, when you turn the games on in the morning, all the scores would be zero.
    59:39
    And so when I would, you know, fix a joystick or do this or do that, turn the game off, go in there. Because like a good person, I don't work on stuff when it's turned on. But anyway, well, then I'd play a game on it to see if I fixed it. Why don't I automatically get a high score? Whee! And, of course, Helen Keller could come in and play it next and beat me. And somewhere along the line I started putting in LTG, because at that time it was pre-internet and people couldn't do the research and stuff like they do now. I go to work with money, I leave with money, I don't want people knowing my last name, I don't want people knowing where I live, I never go the same way home twice, things like that. And I didn't want them knowing my last name and I started using LTG for Lloyd the Great. And it was a huge gag for years. People look at that, what's your middle name? all. And then when I got my Web TV thing, when I discovered Rec Games Pinball, people were signing. They'd have their cute little signature lines, like the cheap-ass Rec Game Pinball bastards would have their thing, and different guys would have initials and different stuff. And I started using the LTG, and a little smiley, because a lot of days are not great days, and I hope whoever's reading this has a better day than And of course, again, it gets a life of its own. And in the winter of 2000, 2001, every once in a while I'd come up on Rec Games Pinball, people would be, what does the OTG mean? And there'd be 30 to 40, you know, lost the game, loves Thai girls, little tiny gonads. I mean, it'd just go on and on and on. Well, in the winter, that winter, I had some older pool shooters used to come in. I don't know what the hell they were doing one day, but they were shooting pool. And all of a sudden, across the room, they're screaming, let loose the dogs.
    61:22
    God, what the hell? Well, this was the same second that David Jurczyk posted on one of these things on Red Games Pinball. It stands for Launch Those Geese.
    61:33
    I thought, shit, that ain't bad. And my first pinball party in March 2, 2001, was the Launch Those Geese pinball party.
    61:42
    And like I say, anything I do just gets out of hand. I look for KISS updates. I end up in Kyiv. I mean, I've learned through the years I don't ask why, I don't question it, I just go with it. But anyway, that's where that all came from. And Martin's got a write-up on Pinside on, I think when I made my 50,000th post on Rec Games Pinball, Martin's got an article on there, and I think that's covered in there. Which also, too, that was not quite accurate because I'd been posting from a couple different e-mail addresses prior to that, so I'd already hit the 50,000 mark. Did you want a mug or a mug?
    62:20
    I guess that guy wants a mug. Yes, sir. Not really. The only thing I've really got in storage right now, there was a gentleman, I don't know how many years ago, His name was Curtis Prowse, I think, Prewse. And he worked for an operator in the mid-'70s.
    62:49
    He went to a technical college. He did a three-year electronics course or something in two years. Guy was a genius.
    62:58
    And if you research his name, I'm probably getting it wrong. I'd have to look it up again. But if you research his name, he invented a lot of stuff that IBM in Rochester, Minnesota, patented and stuff. And he had took a ship ahoy and converted it to solid state two years ahead of Bally's Flickr. Bally had a whole company working on this. This guy did it himself. And it ended up, I don't know, he died young.
    63:26
    Geez, I've had that thing over a decade. It was basically, I think he'd probably gotten sick and it was down in the basement of his house. And after he passed, somebody had sold off the contents of the house. and Kevin Pankratz, somebody had called him, you know anything, you want this pinball machine? So he right away wanted to find it a good home and I thought, you know, geez, that'd be kind of cool if we could get it running and use it for one of the events. And it does need a lot of work. The side art on a cabinet was just rotted and gone. Playfield's in similar shape. But, you know, this guy had taken out all the mechanical stuff and made, you know, I've got a folder with all the programming and stuff. He made, like I say, two years ahead of Bally's Flickr. This guy was amazing and it needs a lot of work. All the Jones plugs got to be replaced, all kinds of stuff. But for one of the events, we did have it fired up and we had it running for three, four hours. And that thing read switches and stuff just like a modern day pinball. You know, Bally put the capacitors on there and stuff so it would read the switches quicker. This thing played like a new game. And it had a, you know, he had a hand painted back glass with the pirate girls on there. Well, originally they were nude, but his mother disapproved of that's they ended up with bikinis on them but it's it's really a neat unique piece and again if it hadn't been that you know this lady whoever is cleaning the house out new Kevin otherwise this thing would have been in the dumpster nobody had ever even known this guy lived and it kind of makes me wonder geez how many of the others lone wolves are out there that you know it built something or design something or you know that you know we'll just never know of even like right now I know at one point there's two different guys working on Capcom books as far as I know those projects are dead and you know day by these guys are getting older and dying off we're losing just tons of stories and information and so do you want a mug or a mug another mug customer we got how many we got left who we got at least five more questions before we get desperate yeah while you're out there grab one that somebody ain't watching Come on, the night's young. We've got to have some stimulating... Yes, sir? Have you ever had a machine literally just fall apart?
    65:39
    No, I had one. I could not fall apart. My Mach 3, I had the laser deck rebuilt. It was like $1,200, and usually they warranty them for 90 days and usually get about a year out of it. Well, 33 days it died. So I take it in, I get it repaired under warranty. Oh, we only warranty them for 30 days now.
    65:59
    Thanks for telling me. I'm not going to put $1,200 into something for 30 days. And this thing was double sheathed. It was a sit-down, well, it was Gottlieb, Milestar, Premier, whatever. I think it was Milestar then. Double sheathed, three-quarter-inch plywood, glued, screwed, nailed. I mean, this thing, I was debating hauling it on the freeway to see if somebody had run into it. I was in there with a sledgehammer pounding on this thing for half an hour. I knocked some trim off in front of where the monitor sat. And I finally got a 10-inch commercial-grade 10-inch handsaw.
    66:37
    Cut it into chunks small enough I could lug them out and throw them in a dumpster. So I haven't had one fall apart, but that one really needed some help going bye-bye. You already got a mug, didn't you? No, you already got a mug.
    66:53
    Any more questions? How about that lady in the green? well you're back there talking to that guy what are you talking about I was wondering if you still have your dog oh yeah Prada is staying with Jonathan and Liz this weekend they've babysat her off and on through the years their little dog I even sadly passed quite some time ago and they stopped in a couple months ago that we're empty nesters now if you ever need anybody watching a dog we'd love to watch there are two people that if something happened to me I'd want them to have Prada they would take better care of them than I can And they're really sweethearts. And Ivan was a great dog, too. The only problem they ever had with Ivan one day, they'd left, they'd gone somewhere, and they had the Roomba running around, and Ivan got scared and pooped, and the Roomba dragged it all over the house.
    67:39
    And I still laugh. They don't think it was funny, but this is always great when it happened to somebody else.
    67:46
    Did you want a mug? Yeah, that's all we got left is mugs. Yep, better give her a mug. Hey, did you want to talk about pinports some more?
    67:55
    Who's our next sacrificial lamb? Jared. Have you ever been inducted into the Pimble Hall of Fame? I've got to think, what did I get inducted into last year?
    68:13
    I got that major award I don know if that was the Pimble Hall of Fame though I think it was sales and service Yeah it was for service Or support Yeah that was funny too You know last year the Saturday when I had the banquet it rained all day So I'm at the big lunch at the restaurant over here with Joe Harper and all the big wheels from Jersey Jack Pinball and stuff. We're all talking. And all of a sudden my cell phone goes off, and it was my buddy, Bob May. Him and Robert had already flown out. He's like, God, go up and reserve me a room again. The flights are getting canceled. And if everybody comes back, you might not be able to get a room. So I run up, and I got their room and went back. What the hell? How did this start? What were you asking? Oh, if I got it. Oh, anyway, earlier in the day, Mike Pasek, he asked me, do you have a banquet ticket? And I found a person that had an extra, and I was like, yeah, I got a banquet ticket. He didn't say anything about wanting me there or anything. He just wanted to be sure I had a banquet ticket. Because, you know, when they were like $80, I'm not having an $80 meal. I'm sorry. I mean, you know, a lot of people love the banquet and everything else. It's not something I can normally afford. But Ross Simpson had two tickets, and him and his wife weren't going, so he gave me one of his tickets, so I got to go. But anyway, because of all the flights getting canceled and stuff, Bob wants to go over to the restaurant. We're having a nice dinner. And I thought, well, that beats the hell out of the banquet buffet. So I'm over there. All of a sudden, Steve Zamanoski comes in. He said, man, you've got to get up to the banquet. it. You're getting a major award. And I'm like, I'm getting a leg lamp. I'm like, cool. And, uh,
    69:47
    uh, you know, uh, they couldn't find me. Mike called Jack. Jack was already back in New Jersey. So Jack called, uh, Steve to come find me. So I go running up there and then I got to sit for an hour and then I get called up for the major award. And again, I'm saying, I thought I was getting a leg lamp and I get this plaque for years of service or something. And I mean, which was really cool and I appreciate it. Plus, the last year of Expo with Rob Burke and Mike signing and stuff. I got it in my display case right now. It was really cool, but I didn't even think about the Pimple Hall of Fame.
    70:18
    Yeah, I don't deserve to be in there. No, but I'm thinking of all the great names, the Steve Kordeks, the Alvin Gottliebs, those people belong there. In the whole scheme of things, I'm a pimple on the face of the earth.
    70:35
    Yeah, but see, I've always tried to avoid that. I didn't want people knowing who I was or the fame or the glory. And, of course, some of this is funny, too. Like a few years ago down in Texas, when Texas Pinball Festival, and you've got 400 games going, you can't hear anything. My cell phone had rang, but I didn't hear it. Well, they had a stuck ball on Wizard of Oz. Well, Butch Peel happened. He was just there, and he had a key, so he unsticks it. Well, there's a guy and lady waiting until he unsticks the ball, and he closes it up, and they're like, wow this is this guy is just amazing this guy has helped more people he's just like and butch is just oh my god i didn't notice anybody noticed me and this guy's just well known he's respected and going on and butch is just getting more and more and more and they said this is ltg and butch was like and then of course the rest of texas i was calling him lloyd but no i just i don't want the fame i don't want the glory i mean if i'd known you know when i made my first post on uh rec games pinball, you know, 1996 or something, if I'd known how this was going to go, I probably wouldn't have done it.
    71:41
    I just wanted to make my little corner of pinball a little bit better. And years later, somebody's, you know, my game's working. Lloyd helped me. That's cool. But I don't want the fame and glory. I mean, I appreciate the kind words. I think people, I really appreciate that people think I belong here and stuff, but there's just more important people at Blogner than me.
    72:06
    Please. Where's Total Recall? Who has it? I know you know who has it. Tell me who has it, boy, I need to know. Where is it? It's someone in Chicago.
    72:16
    Where is it? Who's house is it at? What the hell is Total Recall? Oh. Oh, oh, oh. No, no, I forgot. Yeah, that was the one that they got in trouble with and all kinds of stuff, and potentially one of them got sold and it was to a guy on Pinside and he deleted his account.
    72:35
    Yeah, and yeah, I've never cared. I never dug. I never asked. I don't even remember what that guy's name was.
    72:47
    It was a game that Well, you probably know more than I do because I just didn't follow along that much until it all blew up. There's a prototype called Total Recall from 1993. A Data East prototype, Oren might know about it. Oh wait, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Has two conjoined pinball machines that share an upper playfield. So you have two totally separate playfields, a left player and a right player, that could play simultaneously, sort of joust style, but instead of head to head, it's side by side. And so imagine sort of two pinball machines configured in a V configuration, that had a special type of glass on it that allowed the top of the playfield of the two machines to be shared. and each player had a way to knock balls down to the other player. And it was called Total Recall. The back glass artwork and some other artwork was finished. It had Arnold Schwarzenegger. He was popular in pinball machines back then. And the machine, of course, was very complex, very odd. And they decided to never make it. So for years it sat at Data East and Sega. And one day it just disappeared. and no one there, not Gary, not nobody, not Shelly Sachs, nobody knows exactly who took it, where it went, or what's up with that. And then the last confirmed sighting we have of the game was actually here at the Pinball Expo some maybe eight or nine years ago. But again, and this is pretty recent, eight or nine years, but no one remembers who brought it, whose truck it came out of, whose truck it went into, or if the guy who brought it was the owner or if it left with a different guy, and no one's ever seen it since. There's no high-resolution photos of it. There's virtually no video of it and almost no one knows anything about it. And it might be one of the rarest pinball machines in the world and I want to know where the heck it's at. Yeah, Jared, I apologize. I have no idea. I mean, beyond a couple of the like line drawings or something I've seen, when you were first asking about that, I was confusing it with the first Predator prototype that should not have been sold and was. And I don't know how that ever all ended up, but I was thinking of that. I do apologize. I've got no idea on total. So if you guys don't know, there's a black market or I should say a gray market. for prototypes and super high-end pinball collectors who don't want you to know who they are or that they exist or what they have or where their house is. I went to a warehouse in Anaheim once. I probably shouldn't even say that, but I went there, and there was probably 250 machines in this unmarked warehouse. And it isn't a guy you'd ever see or know or would have ever heard of, but there they were right there on the side of the road right there in a warehouse. And he had prototypes and all kinds of stuff in there like you wouldn't believe, and he's probably a member of a global network of super high-end rare collectors like this. And they're right under your nose. They might even be walking in this building, but they'll never tell you what they have. One is here. Huh? One is here at Expo. Okay, probably in this room, I bet. Not in this room, but here at Expo. But these guys, they don't want you to know. They don't want you to know what they have or what's going on, and they trade all this stuff under the table. So you hear about a game like Mad Pinball, or you hear about these Predator prototypes, or some of these other different prototypes, whitewoods, playfields, stuff like that. All that stuff gets traded and just disappears. And it's wacky and weird, but it's real. And I am particularly interested in total recall, and I need to find it. I will find it. If I ever hear anything, Jared, I'll tell you. You have some info?
    76:14
    Okay. Really? That was only five years ago. No, it would have already been gone by then. You're telling me you put that prototype in a dumpster. You saw it yourself.
    76:50
    It was also never picked up by the people who clean up the dumpsters. Orin knows stuff Orin knows secrets he knows all kinds of stuff this is great No, no, no, no. It's an interesting part. It's nice it's brought up. I don't know.
    77:41
    Well, it's amazing how much this stuff pops up. I know one guy out in California, he invited me out to his place, not the normal one everybody thinks of. This is a lone wolf. And he's got a beach house. He said, you ever come out here? You can stay there. We never use it anymore. On the Pacific Ocean. But he was sending me pictures of his setup one time, and best I could tell from the pictures, it's like a square city block, two stories tall. The main floor, he's got a full-size ballroom, a soda fountain shop, and probably 90 to 100 of the old mechanical driving games, shooting games, fighting games stuff. Upstairs, he's got like 200 to 300 pinball machines. . No. And the nicest guy in the world, too. And I don't begrudge him anything, but when I first saw him in pictures, I was like, I want a job like that guy's got.
    78:40
    It is amazing, however, once while I got a guy out east, got in an argument with some people on Red Games Pinball, but he sent me a couple pictures one time, and he had arcade games and pinball machines, and he had well over 500 or 600 games in a building. And they were all up and running in nice shape, and I was like, nobody knows this. And then the sad part, you know, I wish, you know, I don't blame a guy for being a lone wolf. I don't blame, you know, it's his stuff. He can do whatever he wants. I don't blame him for being secret or being paranoid about it. But I always worry too, what if something happens to it? What happens to this? I remember I've always been in the trains and there was a guy in the late 50s, early 1960s, had a trap rock company in, I think it was in Alabama. And when the railroads were converting to diesel, he ended up owning about 30 railroad steam engines. And he had a lot of them where a railroad had to have a certain class of engine, and they'd scrap them all, but one, he'd have the one. Most of the engines he had were the last of that class. And he used to give people rides on the land and stuff. Well, then somebody stole the builder plate, and he didn't let people out there for a few years. But then he started relenting and would let people tour it, and he'd give a few rides. Guy drops dead young. And this was before the days of the Internet and instant communication and everything else. Relatives sold it all for scrap. It was all cut up and gone in less than a month. Museums weren't given a chance to buy it or anything. About a cent and a half a pound.
    80:13
    And that's why I always worry that some of these lone wolves and stuff out here that have some of this rare stuff that nobody knows about, like that ship Hawaii I had that just happened to one person in the right place at the right time, that thing would have been in a dumpster. So I wish there would be a way of getting more out, but, you know, it's just, it's their stuff, and I wish they'd, you know, leave a map or notes or leave it to somebody that appreciates. Well, like my goose sign, my neon goose sign, you know, and I'm dead and gone. I hope somebody gets it and appreciates it, not that it ends up in a dump somewhere. You know, like I got the video, video.
    80:52
    There's no guarantee. anything it's sign or rights that somebody's gonna use against you I mean you could try to will it to somebody but there's no guarantee and I'm not gonna be here to do anything about it but like on my back wall I got that big neon pinball pinball sign that come from video video New Jersey Ron Salney's place and when that closed that went into storage and we just happen to be talking about names for arcades and stuff at that time and I always thought it'd be cool to you know because a lot of these people you all day when they wanted you know open an arcade or something and call it tilt or lost ball I mean, Joe averaged most of the stuff. People wouldn't know what it is. But he always thought Pinball Pinball would be a cool name, and I did too, because, you know, it clearly spells out you've got Pinball. And he emailed me and said, well, I've got that sign if you want it. The only thing, he didn't want to ship it, because even the guys that know how to ship neon, they've got like a 50% breakage rate. But he said, if you can find a way to pick it up, you can have it. Well, somebody brought it to Expo, and then Andrew Barney brought it to me in Twin Cities. and the next day I cleaned off the back wall, mounted on the wall, and sent Ron a picture of it. But the same thing, and I got a little plaque on the wall of where it was and hung and stuff. The memorial, at one time for about a decade, was a really great place to play pinball.
    82:04
    Do we have any more questions? Hey, there's guys talking back there. Hey, we're losing people. Where are you going?
    82:14
    Hey, you guys talking back there. What's your question? Don't be bashful. You're sitting there talking. I'm sorry? Oh, it's Joe Esposito. Hey, we got a mug left? We got three. Give Joe... Yeah, this is Joe Esposito. I call him the Guinea from Joisey, but he's really from Philly. He's like he's right out of the cast of The Sopranos. He's the greatest guy you're ever going to meet. Yeah, we got to give him a Yeah, one of my tournaments one time, he wanted to come over and play in a May Day tournament, the worst way, and he had relatives at the house and kids and everything, and he couldn't get out, and he's finally, I want to play fucking pinball, I'm going to play fucking pinball, and he comes, well, it's too late to enter or anything. And my front row of pins, he just starts lining up strangers, you know, I come to play fucking pinball, we're playing pinball. He started his own tournament while I had a tournament going on. That was one of the funniest, and that was for years I had the Crazy Joe Esposito tournament during the pinball circus and stuff, and that's Joe right there. Everybody say hi, Joe. Hi, Joe. He's one of the greatest guys. He's been around forever, but he's hilarious. He's a really funny guy.
    83:42
    Yeah, Brian Kelly, everybody. He just started lining people up, started his own tournaments. One of the greatest things that ever happened. I mean, that's right. You know, I go with stuff. These guys had a blast. We'll do that.
    83:58
    What do we got? Two mugs left? Three mugs. We need three questions. Jared, how would you like? Oh, hey, did you still want a mug for your buddy in Australia?
    84:09
    Five bucks. Give him a mug for his friend in Australia that couldn't be here. You look like you're going to burst, Jared. Did you have another question? I don't know. I think that it's being recorded. Oh, Martin, could you turn that off for a few minutes? Well, he does work for a manufacturer, and I've said some bad things to Jared through the years that he probably wants to kill me. And there's some things that probably shouldn't be recorded, so could you turn that off briefly, Well, you look like you're going to burst. I thought you had a question. Now you've got to be hooked on that. I'm going to be researching that tonight.
    84:55
    Really? Get two people looking for it. We'll try it half the time. Yeah, we've just got to ask Oren which dumpster.
    85:06
    Yes, sir. I think it's like all things. All people are different. Some of these guys do open up their places to strangers or friends or family, and some of them you wouldn't know for the love of God. I mean, I don't know that it's always paranoia. It's just that people are people. Some people are used to having people around, having big parties, family get togethers and some people just don't like being around people like my buddy Marshall he just hates people you know every year the the apartments they rent they got like a home theater type thing set up and you can reserve it every year he reserves it for the Super Bowl so that he's the only one sitting in there watching the Super Bowl this is not paranoia he just don't like people and he's a great guy he's huge too he's got an extra vertebrae so he's like really big but he just don't like people likes me i don't know but i'm a people person everybody likes me except for the guys that don't like me but see some of these there are clues see pinballs don't really leave clues like i know i've had guys that collect cars and stuff they're forever driving around the country on the weekends looking for, you know, like tire tracks going back to an old decrepit building or something, and they'll go peek in a window and see if a car got abandoned there and stuff. And see, there's no really telltale. Now, I have, like when people were looking for Lionel trains and stuff, they even went as far as researching the Lionel archives for things that had been sent for service and sent back, and they'd have names and addresses. And a lot of times people are looking for these stashes of operators. Well, like during the video fed, there was one operator in our Red Wing. the game broke, he just threw it in the warehouse, put another one out. He didn't even have time to fix them. He's hauling in so much money. Well, then all of a sudden, 20 years goes by, and this stuff is gold. Unfortunately, he then discovered that, and he started to sell for more money. But like I told people, you know, find your phone books from the 70s and the early 80s. Look for, under amusement devices, arcades, you know, known words, and you know, call some of the old ones up. You might find a relative, yeah, geez, I got 30 of them things in the garage. I want them out of here. It would be nice if nothing else to rescue some of this stuff.
    87:33
    And every time you see a picture of a metal building in a backyard, rusted out and the roof collapsed and all the games trashed, it would be nice if they could find a home of somebody to appreciate them. I mean, I realize we can't save everything, but it does hurt when you see it. Well, same if you see a rusted car somewhere.
    87:51
    It's a shame that somebody didn't get a hold of that when it could have been used. we got two more two more mugs two more questions who didn't get a mug gary you didn't get a mug oh how the hell did we manage that i remember something about that him on a shirt you better give gary a mug because we do love gary you know when i was giving you a crap too i do apologize because I didn't mean to stir up old things. It had nothing to do with that. I just love giving you crap.
    88:36
    Thanks, Gary. We got one mug left. Who didn't get a mug? What's your question? We've got all night. There's got to be something you want to know.
    88:52
    Even a personal question. The meaning of life? Well, it's pretty simple. It's always going to come down to big tits or a big dick. Nothing else matters.
    89:09
    Okay, that guy earned a mug. Anybody else want some answers? Otherwise, you better come up with some questions. otherwise I think we've dragged this about as far as we can this year and I do I do want to thank everybody for coming I do want to thank you for all the nice thoughts and words and especially for you know like Jared and Dave Marston and Gary and Orin and stuff some of the guys have done so much and Martin for always helping and recording and you know thank you and I hope we still got a little bit Expo left and we got all tomorrow left I hope you have a really great Expo and I forgot about that too because this is like the 35th year of Expo even though there are changes and hopefully in a positive fashion and you know we all came together and i hope we're all leaving as friends and i hope you have a really great ex oh i'm sorry i couldn't hear you gary
    90:18
    So this is the 33rd year? 34th. Okay. So we're in the 34th year. Okay. I suck at math. I'm sorry. I pretty much suck at everything. Now we know math. But anyway, I mean, it's had a long run. Hopefully it's on the upswing again and gets back to the glory days. And like I say, we're all parting as friends. I hope you have a great rest of Expo. Thank you.