He plays a real live game sometimes, even though he's willing to trap as well. But the mental side is so powerful, and there's so many things to consider. But the best thing is just knowing yourself, knowing where you slip up, and then finding a way to address it. Boy, I really like hearing that baseball analogy, first of all, too, about making the mental error. Physical errors are going to happen, but the mental error is, you know, did you risk a bad shot? We always talk about what is the safest shot. Keith Elwin always looks for what's the safest shot. I mean, yeah, there are some shots that are going to be more risky and obviously have more reward, but he ideally likes to take the safest shot. If I miss, where is it going to go? So that's maybe part of the mental game that we need as well, too. and you talk about when you miss a shot that can make players go ballistic or get frustrated in poker we call it that goes on tilt and they can't let it go they can't forget the mistake i just recently played in a match a game i had never played before in indie 500 i know it's sad that i've never played it but i never played it and i'm playing against trent and greg pavarelli and john delzoppo never played this game before and it's a playoff and i'm like okay i know how to really get some big points here. I've watched some tutorials. So I'm trying to hit the right orbit. And I think I tried two or three times. Bricked. Got on the other flipper. Okay, let's do what the left orbit does. Bricked, bricked, bricked. So I wasn't finding the shots. But for me, my mental zone is I try something three times in a row. If I miss it, I'm like, I'll come back later. I don't want to miss a fourth time. That'll set me off. And sadly, sometimes you don't have options where other places to go. But that's kind of my mental state is like, if I'm not hitting that shot, I know I'm going to get it eventually, but I'm just not finding it. It's one thing, I guess, if you're consistently early on a shot, you can make that adjustment. But if you're missing early, then missing late, then bricking, I mean, you're all over the place, I get away from it. That's a wise move. You're avoiding a lot of frustration that way and just leading yourself to a better way to score if you just can't nail those shots. You know, another thing, too, you mentioned is play your own game, too. And I remember a year ago being at the Bat City Open at Buffalo Billiards in Austin, Texas, and a guy you know very, very well, a great player in Brian O'Neill. We were playing in a playoff and we're playing Adams Family. And I think every other time I play Adams Family, I'll put the ball in the left flipper, shoot the chair, backhanded into the chair. Brian was so good that day. Brian, as soon as he got the ball on the right flipper, shooting the chair. The harder of the two shots, but making it every single time. So stupid me, come up after Brian, I'm like, oh, if he can do it, I can do it. Never did it once. Hit the right of the chair, out lane, typical Lawler, see you later. The lesson that day was what you just described. Play your own game. And that is so, so important. It is. It is. If you want to experiment, don't experiment in a major tournament against Brian O'Neill or Keith Allen. It's just not the time. They're rare instances where maybe you'll take a slight strategic deviation based on something you learned, or maybe some new code or an angle another player took that you could repeat a certain shot that you can hit safely. But generally, you've got to stay in your comfort zone. And the other danger is there's a famous golfer, I forgot who it was, he said if you spend too much time working on your weaknesses, it could weaken your strength and dilute them. And you definitely need to grow. and expand out as a player in directions that might be uncomfortable with you and take time. But you've got to be true to form as far as this feels good to me. This is me. I'm going to keep this going this way. Here are some really important changes I need to make as a player, and I'm going to make the effort to practice them and see if I can make them a part of my game and come naturally. I'm going to listen to this interview before my next major tournament, which I guess would be at Expo where you're going to be, and we'll talk to that again. because I just think of, again, that Cleveland pinball tournament I was at. I think I've played Ironman, what, easily 500 times in my life and probably 100 in competition. Do you know what I've never, ever done in Ironman? Ever, ever, ever. On the left flipper, I've never shot the left ramp. I've never backhanded it because I like the flow of it. I think I can get it from the right. I think I can get the right ramp from the left flipper. I watched a bunch of people do the backhand up the ramp. I thought, I'm going to try that now. Stupid me. Why, why, why? hey, listen to this interview before my next tournament. And I suggest that to other players as well. We talked about Expo. You're going to be going there. Looking forward to seeing you there at Pinball Expo in just a short time. And you're going to be going in that Power 100. We briefly talked about it. That is the best of the best. You must love this format. First of all, for those that don't know, it is the top 250 players, and it's their record against only the top 250. So the win-loss record, if you are in the top 100 of that, like Andre is, you are invited to this special event at Josh Sharp's house. That is going to be one of the greatest tournaments ever, and I'm glad Jack Danger is going to be streaming part of that. This is going to be something to see. And then there are older games and newer games, and you're going to see the best players in the world and some of the best players in pinball history going at it. So it's a thrilling idea. and it's at IFPA headquarters, which I believe means Josh's house. And so I'm excited to play there. I'm excited to just butt heads with all these great players. You know, and also a little fearful. I think it's a six-fair-strike tournament, meaning you could be out after playing three games and you're done with the Power 100. But, yeah, that's a unique event, and I always get excited about new formats. And in this case, this is one that's going to challenge me and everyone there just with the level of play. And I suspect Josh is not going to have especially the modern game set up too easily. Otherwise, we're going to be playing endless multi-balls and balls. So it's a very special event and just an honor to have qualified for it. And also another local player, Zach Woolens, will be there. So I'm excited to have a little companionship from the Bay Area to kind of go through this together because it sure will be a test. And I'm just thrilled to be involved with it. There'll be no ball saves, that's for sure, Josh. That's something you can count on, absolutely. Now, it's neat that you're going to this event because most of your play is in California and, of course, in Pennsylvania for Pinberg and Papa when it's on. But you really don't travel that much, or at least maybe not as much recently. And I know you're very modest, but I personally believe that if you traveled more and were able to make more tournaments, you'd be ranked even higher than you already are. Is that fair to say? Yeah, Jeff, you're absolutely right. I absolutely will travel for Papa and Pinberg no matter what. Most IFPA tournaments, including a few in Europe that I've done, I did skip the two that were in Sweden. and I think in Sweden it becomes a matter of vacation time available to me And I really have to decide through the course of the year what I want to prioritize beyond the obvious stuff that I do the local stuff the Papa When there is Papa I miss Papa. I'd definitely be there if there were Papa this year. So in the end, I do compete and travel minimally. There are a couple exceptions. 2014, I really wanted to get into that circuit final and I played extra events I normally would and when I say extra events I went to my first in-disc down in Southern California and my first and only trip to Portland for an event because they're circuit events and the ultimate result was you know built up my points and and I accomplished what I wanted to but what you're talking about too beyond hitting more events and getting more points I'd expect to get bigger points at bigger tournaments assuming I do well that year of 2014 was exceptional for me, and I think because I played sharper that year, because I was competing more in these heavy-duty tournaments with heavy-duty players. And so my game was at a heightened awareness level and a heightened skill level because these other players in big events I was playing brought my skill level up in a consistent way versus play local things for four months and then hit a big tournament, play local things for six months and then hit a big tournament. That's not too often, although I hit the biggest of the big tournaments. There are way more opportunities out there for me to play, and I really haven't taken advantage of them. I've only been to two IndyS ever, and I think everyone who knows pinball tournaments, and especially has been there, knows it's a phenomenal time, very competitive in a great place with great players and people running it. But I've only been twice, which is a real shame. And it's in your state now. Now, I realize there's a big difference between Northern California and Southern California, but it's right there. And, you know, you don't have to take the coast to get there. You can go a little faster if you want to get there. I hope to see you at Indisc again because that is a great tournament for sure. But let's talk about California pinball. There are so many other states that we commonly talk about. Stiff competition, Washington, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New York, Texas. But California, even without Keith Elwin there anymore, still a tough, tough state to win. and the local competitions are probably just as difficult. Yeah, and as a player, I've been lucky that way. First off, they're great players to compete and get better against, but also California, northern California, around the Bay Area, has become better and better as far as having games available to play. And so we're lucky that way. Also, when we have a larger mid-sized tournament, You know, especially the circuit events like California Extreme and City Champ in the Bay Area. These become national events, you know, even though they're held out here. But a lot of West Coasters, and I'm talking all the way from, you know, Vancouver, Canada, all the way to San Diego where Keith Allen was coming from, will come to these events as well. We're kind of, you know, in the center of the coast relatively. And there's so many great players along the coast as well. So I appreciate our scene, especially in Northern California. It's been built up over the last, I'm going to say, 10 years or so by various people putting on events, various locations just cropping up like Free Gold Watch in 2012. And then, I don't know, the interest builds and more people get into pinball, and then some of these people start getting really good all of a sudden. Or some people used to be good and used to play a lot and come back to the game after many years. And so it's such a hotbed. And if you look at some of the best competitors, some who are more established from Northern California, like Per Schwarzenberger, who runs the league, who started the league, the SFPD, San Francisco Pinball Department, as well as the City Champ Tournament, which is extraordinary. You know, he established himself a while back. Or Tim Hansen, who's phenomenal but doesn't get out to tournaments much because he's a family guy. And then just in the last couple of years, these men and women, many of whom play in the San Francisco Pinball Department League, are exceptional. Very competitive. They test me. They challenge me. So although I'm not playing in these national events, you know, I end up playing in a tournament or a league night. And, wow, I'm playing the number one woman in the world and, you know, two of the top 100 in the world. And this is just a regular old weeknight league night. So it's good competitively and location-wise. I'm having trouble keeping track of all the places that are opening up with machines. I haven't visited two or three places that have opened up of late that I really want to check out with many machines. So I'm really lucky to be in this area. It's quite an explosion. And, of course, when you talk about California, those Southern California folks are great, with some special locations and banning and some of the toughest players on the planet, But Jim Belzito, Johnny Modica, Carl D'Angelo come to mind first and foremost. There are so many great players there. You mentioned Free Gold Watch and City Champ. An event coming up in December sells out immediately. And unfortunately, because of the size limitations, they can't take as many as they certainly would like. I know I'd love to be there one day too. So that will happen someday. But I think of just California alone. I mean, Eka Schneider starting bells and chimes in Oakland there. Robin Lassonde, one of the world's greatest pinball players, one of the top female players almost every single year. She's right there, and you probably play a lot against Robin. So it's just incredible how many people in California alone really come out to pinball. And there are lots of locations, not just Free Gold Watch, but a place you need to tell me about because I've never been there. Tell me about the Pacific Pinball Museum. Oh, yeah. Well, everyone knows about Free Gold Watch. I know top-ranked national players and international players have come by. but the Pacific Pinball Museum is really exceptional. I first went there in 2006 and it was just the juju and it was just a couple rooms, one with the M's and then they just added one with solid states and still a great place, especially at the time since there wasn't a lot of location play for pinball with places with that many machines but this is in Alameda, California and all it's done in the last few years since I first went in 06 is expand and expand and expand. And basically, I don't know, keeps taking over different businesses nearby, you know, as they closed or, you know, went out of business or leases ran out. And so it's this massive place. It's dedicated to pinball in that it's a playable pinball museum. You can play just about any of the games, except for some of these old-timey ones that are more like baguettels, real historical ones. And they also push the science and the history and the art of pinball I went there once, and they have school groups come in, and they use them to learn about pinball and design and angles and geometry and a lot about science as well. And so it's a special place in a lot of ways for me and so many of us. What we appreciate best is the great number of games from all eras, very old and very new, and some really nice people who really keep the museum going. So it's a wonderful place. And, yeah, I hope they showcase it more often. Until 2012, they had the Pacific Pinball Expo. And that was a great event, but it was so much work for them to put on. And although it helped the museum and nonprofit, they basically gave all their energy to it. And I guess it just wasn't energy and time effective for them to run this wonderful expo with hundreds of games and super rare old stuff, like Mermaid, that you're not going to see just about anywhere else. So Pacific Pinball Museum in Alameda is definitely worth the visit as well as Freeville Watch if you're ever in the Bay Area, plus a ton of other places you can find on the pinball map. There are shows like Expo that comes up, Texas Pinball Festival, where they have people flock to come play these games, and the vendors really make it possible, and the people that are donating the games. But permanent fixtures, like you mentioned, at the Pacific Pinball Museum, like the Old Papa facility, those are so rare and so special and also something like replay and this year for you it had to be so so rewarding i know it didn't turn out the way you wanted to but again to be on the final stage final four with a chance to win it on the last game against keith elwynn who by the way you have two second places in majors and i don't need to tell you this both second to keith elwynn so it It was a chance for revenge this year, but, I mean, you have to just tip your cap when you saw what Keith did on Harlem Globetrotters. That being said, you know getting to play it after what he did, there's still a chance. You know, a great thing about pinball is you always have a chance until you lose that last ball. And in that game with Jim and Chris and Keith rolling over Harlem Globetrotters, I did have a chance on that last ball. I think the game played well in that the spinner turned well. Once all the drop targets are down, you could hit that spinner tons and tons of points at 2,000 a spin. Unfortunately, Keith was so far ahead of me. You know, what would it take? Maybe 10, 15 full shots to that loaded spinner with all the points on it to pass him. And honestly, I have rolled Harlem Cloak Trotters, but I don't think I've ever rolled one that did not have an extra ball active on it and that did not have the bonus carryover. And this Pinberg game was tougher than most location games in that way. So it was a great second place. If someone told me before Pinberg that I would take second to Keith, I would say, I'll accept that. The harder part now that I did take second there is knowing how close I was and a couple of instances, a few points here, a few points there on Star Pool and Pin Bot, I might have been in the running more. And so when you're that close, it hurts a little more than when you're far away from taking first. Have you talked to Josh Sharp about how to accept second place? He's a pro at it. Oh, man.