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Wizards & Warriors Episode 10 - Pinburgh Hype w/Preston!

Wizards & Warriors·podcast_episode·2h 47m·analyzed·Jul 23, 2025
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Pinburgh 2024 preview with bank rankings and competitive game strategy discussion.

Summary

Wizards & Warriors Episode 10 is a pre-Pinburgh hype episode featuring hosts and guest Preston Currie ranking and discussing the 25 banks (game lineups) for Pinburgh 2024. The episode covers Pinburgh logistics, tournament format (two days of qualifying and finals), and begins detailed tier rankings of the first two banks, with discussion of game strategy, playfield mechanics, and competitive considerations.

Key Claims

  • Pinburgh 2024 will feature three divisions (A, B, C) with top 70 roughly out of 240 players in A division

    medium confidence · Joe discussing Pinburgh format changes; notes some uncertainty ('I believe', 'I want to say')

  • A full-game tiebreaker will be used this year, replacing last year's single-ball F-14 tiebreaker

    high confidence · Joe explaining 2024 format improvements

  • Practice window added to Wednesday this year (vs. only warm-up strikes tournament last year)

    high confidence · Adi confirming format addition

  • Preston Currie's first tournament was December 2021; he is a 'COVID pinball baby'

    high confidence · Preston self-reporting tournament history

  • Preston commented Attack from Mars/Frontier/Whitewater bank is 'S tier' while Joe ranks it 'A' or lower

    high confidence · Direct tier ranking discussion for Bank 1

  • Bank 1 (AFM/Whitewater/Frontier/Star Pool) lacks any modern game made in the last ~25 years

    high confidence · Adi noting all games are older than recent titles in other banks

  • Roadshow has mechanical issues and left-side danger; multiball scoring is highly variable and upper-flipper dependent

    medium confidence · Joe's competitive analysis of Roadshow; personal observation about mechanical reliability

  • Circus Voltaire is played safely by shooting left ramp repeatedly; complex triple-stack multiball possible via Arc Star/Ringmaster combinations

    medium confidence · Preston explaining advanced Circus Voltaire strategy

  • Pinburgh 2024 will accommodate roughly double the number of players compared to last year

    medium confidence · Adi expressing interest in how venue will handle increased capacity

  • Eric Russell (CNY) hosted Kentucky State Championships last year and does high-quality tournament organization

Notable Quotes

  • “I think we might play Kentucky this year. I played Indiana two years ago and Ohio last year. So I might just start making a Midwest tour of it.”

    Preston Currie @ early — Shows Preston's tournament travel patterns and flexibility in state competition selection

  • “It's kind of jokingly referred to as Pinball Summer Camp... the first year they kind of brought it back post-COVID.”

    Adi (host) @ mid-early — Characterizes Pinburgh's cultural significance to the community and its revival post-pandemic

  • “I was weightless last year as well, but I ended up showing up. I got to commentate on IE Pinball Stream, which was a lot of fun, with Debra Taubman and Chris Stevens.”

    Preston Currie @ mid-early — Indicates Preston's involvement in pinball streaming/commentary at major events

  • “This bank just screams near perfection to me.”

    Adi (host) @ mid — Strong assessment of Bank 1, though disagreed with by co-hosts

  • “I'm going to go I had it at a B. But I think only because of Circus Voltaire and Roadshow. And if we're talking 50%, that's an F.”

    Joe (co-host) @ late — Nuanced tier ranking showing Bank 2 highly dependent on which games you face in the bracket

  • “Attack from Mars, we know. Are you guys going for UFO multiball or the Total Nuclear Annihilation multiball?”

    Adi (host) @ mid — Shows competitive strategy variance on Attack from Mars, a classic competitive machine

  • “I think it embodies the perfect amount of difficulty... but the thing is, it takes so long.”

    Adi (host) @ mid — Captures Circus Voltaire's design appeal balanced against queue time and tournament practicality

  • “If I was playing this in match play, I'd probably have just tried to mode out, honestly, because the multiball is really variable.”

    Preston Currie — Strategic approach to Roadshow showing preference for mode-stacking over multiball reliance

Entities

Preston CurriepersonAdipersonJoepersonEric RussellpersonGregory KennedypersonGalvin MorganpersonDebra TaubmanpersonChris StevenspersonZollerperson

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinburgh 2024 generates significant pre-event hype; format improvements noted (practice window, tiebreaker changes, three divisions vs. two)

    high · Entire episode dedicated to bank rankings and strategy; multiple mentions of looking forward to tournament

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Deep discussion of multiball strategies, stacking options, and mode selection across multiple games (AFM, Circus Voltaire, Roadshow); shows competitive meta complexity

    high · Detailed tactical analysis: Circus Voltaire triple-stack multiball via Arc Star, Roadshow mode-stacking vs. multiball, AFM Total Nuclear Annihilation focus

  • ?

    content_signal: Wizards & Warriors podcast producing extended Pinburgh coverage with tier-ranking format; guest featuring competitive player expertise

    high · Full episode dedicated to 25 bank rankings; guest Preston Currie brought on for competitive analysis

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Pinburgh 2024 introducing format improvements: added practice window, full-game tiebreaker (vs. single-ball), three divisions (vs. two)

    high · Joe detailing specific format changes; Adi confirming practice window is new this year

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Preston Currie positioned as emerging competitive/commentary voice; has commentated major events (IE Pinball Stream at Pinburgh) and participates in podcast guest spots

    medium · Invited as special guest; mentioned commentating with Debra Taubman and Chris Stevens; plays multiple state tournaments

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.504

0:00
Welcome everybody, a special pre-Pinberg hype episode. We'll call this episode 10 of Wizards and Warriors. Of course, I've got my awesome co-host with me.
0:34
Hey, man, Joe. What's going on? Not much. How are you? And we've got a very special guest. Super happy that he's here. I think he's insanely knowledgeable about all things competitive pinball, so it's always a joy to have another voice and brain to kind of pick things about. So welcome, Preston. How are you?
0:56
Good. Thanks for having me. So kind of excited to be here. And, yeah, it's a step down from Zoller last episode, but it's fine. I'll try to make it work. Get yourself on that pedestal. We got Preston Currie. I don't know.
1:10
Where did you last compete? Where did you come from recently? So I just got back last night from Sweeper City Championships in North Canton, Ohio. Okay. So they had an event down there, and it was packed with talent. So it was kind of a fun competing ground for the weekend. Awesome. So is this your first Sweeper City or a second, right? Last year as well, yeah. So the inaugural year as well. So I'm with Gregory Kennedy and Galvin Morgan, who run the event. I'm pretty good friends with both of them. So pretty easy style to just go hang out with a bunch of people for the weekend and play pinball. I know. Are you, do you, do you live near the area?
1:56
No, I'm actually kind of close to Indianapolis. Okay. It's about a four and a half hour drive from here. So that's not too bad. Yeah. Don't dox yourself. I didn't know if you were close to the, close to the venue side or not. Are you close to past times?

high confidence · Preston praising Eric's tournament quality and personal experience

@ late

  • “You don't see Super Orbit everywhere. So I like Circus Voltaire as a tournament game.”

    Joe (co-host) @ mid — Reflects value of variety in tournament lineups and appreciation for less common titles

  • “Yeah, it's funny how the first two moderns are the oldest games in the first two banks.”

    Adi (host) @ late — Observation about Pinburgh 2024 game selection having significant age spread across banks

    • Escher
    person
    Z-Macperson
    Alex Kperson
    Pinburgh 2024event
    Sweeper City Championshipsevent
    Beast (tournament)event
    Northwest Pinball Championships (NWPC)event
    Papa 22event
    Steel City Strikesevent
    Bash at the Burgevent
    Whippedevent
    Resonate (venue)event
    Dirty Pool Pinballperson
    Jeff Teolisperson
    Rolandperson
    Richie Terryperson
    ?

    community_signal: Regional tournament opportunities expanding (Beast in Buffalo, NWPC in Seattle, Papa 22, Sweeper City Championships); players increasingly willing to travel circuit rather than concentrate on single majors

    high · Preston discussing Midwest state tournament tour; hosts listing 4 major tournaments in sequential weeks; regional opportunities reducing concentration at single majors

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Roadshow reassessed downward during discussion due to multiball variability and upper-flipper dependency; initial perception vs. competitive reality diverged

    medium · Adi: 'I think you guys have convinced me to lower this a little'; moved from B to C tier based on strategy analysis

  • ?

    venue_signal: Pinburgh expecting to accommodate roughly double the player count from 2023; venue expansion and logistics planning evident

    medium · Adi: 'I'm interested to see how it's going to hold double the amount of people. We'll see how they set everything up.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Pinburgh 2024 uses 25 sponsored game banks; sponsor diversity (local operators, regional leagues, manufacturers, podcasts) suggests commercial partnership model and community engagement strategy

    high · Banks sponsored by Titan Pinball, Marco Specialties, Final Round Podcast, Pittsburgh Pinball League, Pinball Profile, Pinball Expo, Papa 22, ColorDMD, etc.

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Bank 1 noted as accessible (Attack from Mars/Frontier/Whitewater saucerable/controllable); Bank 2 variability high (Roadshow multiball dependent, King of Diamonds luck-heavy, Super Orbit unfamiliar)

    medium · Preston: Bank 1 'solid A in my mind... two games that are pretty controllable'; Joe on Bank 2: '50%, that's an F'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Preston Currie represents rapid player development trajectory: first tournament Dec 2021 (~3 years ago), now commentating major events and competing in state championships across multiple regions

    high · Self-reported tournament start date; current activity level (Sweeper City, commentary gigs, state tournament circuit planning)

    • 2:11
    Myself? No. Yeah. Okay. I thought for some reason I thought you were near that area. Cause I know they have mega match plays and it's, it's pretty awesome. Yeah. No, actually, the only time I've been to past times was for the Ohio State Championships. Okay. Cool. What state do you normally try to compete for as far as states, NACS? I've talked all over the place, honestly. So I think I might play Kentucky this year. I played Indiana two years ago and Ohio last year. So I might just start making a Midwest tour of it. You heard what you see on the coast. So Kentucky looked really fun last year I know Eric Wartberger's house Hosted it last year He's the state rep as well down there So I like all of his tournaments I mean, Cincinnati, NKY, all that stuff So I'm always happy to be at an Eric tournament Yeah, Chuck Wart, Eric does an amazing job And he had a local radio station come by And kind of do a spotlight on his place He just had the Northern Kentucky Open, and I went to Cincinnati last year. He does a really good job, and you know you're going to get a good tourney if he's running it. Have you TD'd before? Like, is this your big event that you TD'd?
    3:35
    Yeah, I also had a local event like a couple times when I've been just kind of tasked. I have not been TDing or anything like that. I purely play. I don't really organize, and so I sympathize with all the organizers. It looks like a really hard job, but I appreciate it. I just kind of show up. And, you know, once in a while with people I know, like, I'll give a helping hand here and there on stuff, but I'm definitely not on the technical side, like, not a big fixer of games or anything like that. So I purely like playing for the most part. Hey, what up, Roland? We haven't ranked anything yet. We're just talking. Thank you for the follow. I appreciate you. This is my Airbnb buddy. I'm staying with Roland this time.
    4:19
    So how did you and Joe meet? Because I know you two have played before together and talked. Yeah. How did we meet? I think it was through Lowe's stream. When we actually met in person, I think we were in the same group on Flintstones at D82.
    4:39
    I think that's the first time. I think I ran into you again in Cleveland 2023 maybe you were there okay yeah and then I don't know it just became like a thing from there you were traveling a lot I feel like in 2023 because I feel like you were at Expo too or something like that yeah so we just kept dating and I was like yeah this guy is I mean he does all the restaurant spots so I'm like it's good in my book hey Dirty Pool Pinball, thank you so much for the raid. Appreciate you. This scene normally would have a little shout-out widget that says thank you for the raid. But this is a scene where I turned off all our alerts because I don't want people going crazy with channel points. But thank you so much, Dirty Pool Pinball. Please make sure you check him out. He's got some awesome interviews, awesome streams, really high-value production, high quality. So thank you again for bringing all your friends. We are talking with my co-host Jay Langeau and Preston Curry, Pete Kerr, 27. We're about to go through all of the Pinberg banks and kind of rank them S through F, like fighting game tiers, and we're just getting started. So appreciate you bringing some pinball lovers. Thank you, thank you again.
    5:59
    Yeah, we're stoked for Papa in September. We're stoked for – there's a lot of tournaments coming. We've got Pinberg this week starting Wednesday, essentially, with practice and the Steel City Strikes. We've got the Beast in upstate New York, Buffalo, Jeff Teolis' tournament, right after, the week after. Then two weeks later, two and a half, we've got Northwest Pinball Championships, MWPC in Seattle. And then two weeks after that is Papa 22, right? I believe it's Papa 22. But thank you again. Appreciate all of you. If you are going to any of those tournaments Make sure you come Say hi if you want to You don't really have to Just say hi We always enjoy talking to other people About pinball Competitive pinball And all the things that are going on So we're talking with Preston here and Joe They just discussed Let us know how they met And we are going to go through The Pinberg Banks for this year's extravaganza. So give me both of you. Feel free to choose whoever goes first. Your experience at Pinberg last year, then I'll go.
    7:16
    Yeah, I can start. So I played in Maine with you, Adi. Did you play in the – there's a warm-up strikes tournament as well, which last year was the only – I got knocked out right away. I think I did too. It was the only opportunity to practice. So thankfully this year they're adding, I believe, a practice window on Wednesday. So definitely looking forward to taking advantage of that.
    7:42
    But, no, I had a great time. It's, I guess, kind of jokingly referred to as Pinball Summer Camp. You know, last year was the first year they kind of brought it back post-COVID. So they're kind of, you know, trying to get it to grow to the place where it once was. But I think they did a great job. You know, Resonate is very accommodating, and the location, you know, the game is quite relatively fine.
    8:13
    I'm sure we can talk about that more, too. But looking forward to, you know, this weekend. Yeah, 100% agree. Thank you, Berg Bookie. Excuse me. Yeah, Wizards and Warriors was a great NES game. So it worked perfectly for this podcast. And thank you for helping set up all the games. I know we talked last year. We got to meet, and it is really well done, just the location itself. I'm interested to see how it's going to hold double the amount of people. We'll see how they set everything up. But, Preston, what were your thoughts last year on Pinball?
    8:52
    Yeah, so I was weightless last year as well, but I ended up showing up. I got to commentate on IE Pinball Stream, which was a lot of fun, with Debra Taubman and Chris Stevens, which was a good time. It was really the first time I'd met Chris before, so that was really awesome. And I played Badger the Berg, tough games, so I got a little taste of what the Pinberg games felt like. I think I was on stream and had like a 4.5 billion attack from Mars and then like an hour and a half later I'm on the brink of being eliminated and put up like 1.5 million on Adam's family so a little bit of both worlds with that one but I had a great time honestly like it was really fun hanging out and it was nice because like playing a night tournament like that there's not as much pressure and so I got to kind of soak in the experience and just hang out with a lot of the pinball friends I have and everything. So, yeah, really good time. And, I mean, I'm coming back this year and not playing again. So I just really like, I guess, being at majors and just getting to experience it firsthand. I get to root on a bunch of people that are in the field, which is always fun.
    10:12
    Yeah, I 100% agree. Was last year both of your first pinbergs? It was for me. So, yeah. Yeah. When did you get involved in pinball, Preston? When did you start? My first tournament was December of 2021. Nice. Okay. So you're a COVID pinball baby like a lot of us. Yeah, pretty much. I was, like, in the market for a new hobby and discovered pinball. It snowballed very quickly, so. Yeah, much to the chagrin of my wallet. but I kind of wish I'd never discovered it. But it is what it is. It's a lot of fun, and, you know, you're paying for entry into a very kinetically satisfying hobby that we can still, at least I can still do at my age. So I agree with both of you. Pinberg, just last year, I know coming from, hearing from people that went to the older ones, it was just this magical sea of pinball, thousand, thousand people. And I'm happy to get a taste last year. And I can't wait for this next chance at some really large amount of whoppers, but also to see everybody. Because everybody kind of converges on a couple of the bigger tournaments. You've got, obviously, Worlds, Indisc, which to me is the biggest one still, and now Pinberg. And then now that the majors are back, we were talking to El Rocco a couple episodes ago, and I asked her what you think has been the best thing you've seen about the evolution of pinball. I still think it's the fact that there are more regional opportunities to score a lot of whoppers versus having to fly into one location to get a chance at moving up in the ranks. So a lot of fun to be had. A lot of us are getting on flights tomorrow. But with all of that said now, let's start discussing the banks. That's what we're here for. We're going to take you on a journey through our thoughts on the Pinberg banks. Either of you feel free to discuss the format on exactly what Pinberg is Yeah, go ahead You got it, you got it This is your level, right? Yeah, so it's two days of pinball, right? Day one is five rounds of four games per round kind of qualifying, right? So this is kind of where you get placed into divisions. Last year, there were two divisions, A and B division, which is the upper 50% of the field, the lower 50% of the field. And then this year, it is three divisions. I believe it's A, B, and C division, which does have a numeric kind of cutoff. I believe it's top 70, I want to say, out of the roughly 240 players. around there. They're not like inky-inky-inky yet? Is it like that? I mean, that's what I would assume they did, but I don't know. Be fair. Yeah.
    13:20
    Maybe there was a way to find out. So after the fifth session, you'll get placed in divisions. There will be a full-game tiebreaker this year, if necessary. Last year, there was a single-ball tiebreaker on What was it? F-14, I believe. Yeah. It was fun if you weren't involved in that. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Right?
    13:49
    And then on the second day, you are playing an additional five rounds of four games per round with the hopes to make the finals.
    14:00
    Yeah. We're basically doing match play for the first day to qualify for the push for the playoffs on the second day. and after that, man, if you make the playoffs, you're sitting pretty as far as whoppers. Did you, and then you have Bash at the Berg, which is a phenomenal side tournament, and I'm really happy that there's a mix of tournaments you can do. So I've been to tournaments where it's been like three main tournaments, but they were all card. I've been to tournaments where it's just match play And maybe Just match play And then I've been to ones that are All pump and dump, herb style So I really like when there's A main that you can focus on A side tournament before, like a little prep Where you can get your hands on the pins Beforehand And then also like a pump and dump I love the idea of being able to Get out my anger on what I just did In match play or on a card On a pump and dump So Bash at the Berg is the side tournament where you will be able to play as many entries as you can. And it's what, top eight scores? I forgot what it is. Your best eight classics or best something like that. And then they rank you based on everybody else's scores for that pin. So if you get the top score, it's like 200. And then it keeps going down 195, 190. So something around that. But it's nice to have the side tournament running while the main is going on. And then also you have the women's at Pinberg, Whip It, where they will have – is all their qualifying and play on Sunday? Is that correct? Yes, I understand it. Okay. I think it's Whipped. Whipped, sorry. Yeah, I know. I said Whip It last year and someone corrected me. So let me do it again, Whipped. I'm going to try. I just go W-I-P-P-E-R-Y-E-T. Play it safe. So anyways, now that we've gotten the sort of logistics out of the way, We're going to get to the part that we're here for, which is ranking the 25 banks at Kinberg for the main. Thank you. Appreciate you, Dirty Pool. Thank you again for the raid for the main match play. So in each bank, you have to have a DMD or later. You can see that right up here. An EM, a late solid state or DMD through 1994, and then early solid state. So your DMD or laters are going to include your modern LCDs, your Sterns, you see them down here. Your EMs are obviously electromechanical. And then you've got kind of, I feel like this is the darling for a lot of people, this third category, because I see a lot of pins here that I enjoy. And then the early solid states with some of your more classics and, you know, tournament darlings, such as Harlem, Frontier, maybe Flash Gordon for some, and Paragon, of course. So I'm going to go through this list, just list them off in case you're listening on audio and you're not watching the video. But you should be watching the video because the footage that we do on these episodes is really helpful for you to play along. So the first bank is sponsored by Titan Pinball. You have Attack from Mars, Star Pool, Whitewater and Frontier. Then you've got Bank 2, sponsored by Yopsicle, Circus Voltaire, King of Diamonds Roadshow, Super Orbit Bank 3, Marco Specialties sponsored Transformers, the LE, Old Chicago Lethal Weapon 3, Incredible Hulk Bank 4 Reclaim Arcade, Sopranos High Hand, Hollywood Heat, Black Knight Holy crap Bank 5 PGA Pinball Dungeons and Dragons Pro Go by Stern, Freak Out, Taxi, Matahari. Bank six, Skill Shot Pinball Repair, Spider-Man, Blue Chip, Pinbot, Paragon. Bank seven, Replay Foundation, Star Wars, Pro, Jack in the Box, Adams Family, Harlem Globetrotters. Bank eight, Pittsburgh Pinball League, sponsored Family Guy, Aquarius, High Speed, and Quicksilver. Bank nine, The Beast, Cactus Canyon Remake, Target Pool, Doctor Who, Alien Poker. Bank 10 from Turner Pinball is Ninja Eclipse Which is going to be interesting Because not a lot of people still have got their hands on it Spanish Eye, Swords of Fury, Dragon by Gottlieb Bank 11, the Final Round Pinball Podcast Is Brought, King Kong Pro, Mini Zag, Robocop, and Mystic And when I say brought, it means they're just sponsoring the bank I'm sure they're providing some sort of sponsorship as well Bank 12, Not the Bees Podcast Mandalorian Pro, Lady Luck, Mousing Around Barracora Bank 13, Spill City Pinball, ACDC Premium, Avali, Laser War, Mars God of War. Bank 14, Resonene Esports Sponsored, Willy Wonka, Surf Champ, Indy 500, and Stars. Bank 15, Pittsburgh Pinball Dojo, Rush Pro. 2001, Genesis and Gorgar. Bank 16, Vellum Fermentation, sponsoring Avatar by Stern. Ideal, Black Rose Flight 2000. Bank 17, Bride of PPL Women's League Is sponsoring Avengers Infinity Quest Pro Which was an amazing Pin to watch on last year's Main finals Between all the young kids Zoller, Escher, Zmack And Alex K I believe Aladdin's Castle, Star Wars Data East, Big Game You've got the West Virginia Pinball League Doing number 18, it's John Wick Premium Little Chief, Transporter, Power Play Bank 19 The Pinball Profile sponsoring Foo Fighters Pro, Bank of Ball, The Getaway High Speed 2, Flash Gordon, Pinball Expo for Bank 20, Labyrinth, Snow Derby, Victory, and 8-Ball, Bank 21, Jockton, Pinch Shades and Pin Steps, 007 Pro, World Fair, Tommy, and Firepower, The Sanctum sponsoring Deadpool Pro, Monaco, Roller Games, Black Hole, Three Left, The PAC, Pittsburgh Arcade Collectors sponsoring Venom Pro, Drop a card, F14 Tomcat And Sea Witch Papa22 sponsoring Doom CE Which is probably going to throw a lot of people So I hope all of you get there early and get your hands on it To give it a test run Centigrade37, Funhaus, JokerPoker And then TheLastBank Sponsored by ColorDMD Ironman, Doodlebug Terminator 2 and Stellar Wars Sorry I had to read that out I just want to get it out in case anybody was taking notes For whatever reason All right, so how do you guys want to talk about these banks? Do you want to start at the top and then rank them, or do you want to go to one right away that caught your eye?
    20:37
    I think we just start from the top, Adi. Okay, sounds good. All right, so Bank One. We'll go landmines as we go down. So Bank One is this. We've got Attack from Mars, Starpool, Whitewater, and Frontier. I think there's a phenomenal bank. I don't know a lot about Star Pool, but I feel like I've had a good enough experience and play time with all of these to sort of merit understanding what I need to do to hopefully get a not a challenge token, but at least a solid enough score to advance or at least get a decent placement. Attack from Mars, we know.
    21:21
    Are you guys going for, what are you going for in Attack from Mars? UFO multiball or the total annihilation multiball?
    21:33
    I'm like going to say first. I kind of want to see what he says. If the saucers are friendly, I mean, saucer all day is not bad. I know billion point hurry ups are a cool thing to try if the shots are, you know, flowing. But I'm a saucer all day kind of guy.
    21:52
    I'm total annihilation. Yeah, ramping out. I think all those shots feed a flipper, and it's hard to say no. And that multi-ball is, I think, by far the best one. Is there any difference on tournament settings with activating multi-ball? Is it just shooting it into that inner left loop to lock your ball, or you have to hit it a couple times, do you know?
    22:19
    They probably will set it where you have to hit it once and it goes around and then hit it, and you have to do that. It's basically a six-shot multi-ball. Okay. So you have to qualify each lock, I would assume. Okay. That's how it was in Bash at the Berg last year at least. Okay. Yeah, that's right. It was in the bank for Bash at the Berg. So I'll get the – It was a tough game. Okay. I'll get the Star Pool last because it's the one I know the least. Whitewater. That pulls a classic, like, EM where your bonus builds and then there's no points, basically. Like, if you get a max double bonus, it's like hocus-pocus, but even less scoring. Oh, God, no. Yeah, yeah. But so it's one of those, like, don't have, like, you don't want to have bad balls. You want every ball to be, like, easily consistent, at least. Okay. There's a big center in the middle, too, right? Yeah, yeah.
    23:16
    It's pretty gross, but it's an EM, so, like, as far as EMs go, like, you have full-size flippers. So that's a positive.
    23:26
    It says it has it all. Competitive appeal. It's great. All right. So Frontier, just an absolute classic with the crickets. You're hitting your inlines and then lighting the spinner, ripping it up, and trying to fill this grid out up here. getting your bonus, you know, your multiplier, I believe on the drops, or is it these drops or these drops? What do these drops do on the right? That's your, like, natural bonus. Okay. I think the left one is the den bonus, and it qualifies the thing up top that it goes into. Right here. Yeah. And you can hit that twice, correct? Like, it comes in once, and then, like, you hit a drop again, and then you can shoot it again. Okay. I think usually. Yeah. And then Whitewater, you know, if you can get the ultimate stack of what, 5X in the multiball or 5X in the – there's another mode, the Whirlpool Award, I think. But you want the 5X – You can't do that one because that's not in the Boulder Awards. Gotcha. So it's the main multiball. That's it, the main multiball. Okay, cool. Yeah, I don't know. This bank just screams near perfection to me. What are your guys' thoughts on it? I mean, after seeing all the banks, I think it's F tier, man. F tier?
    24:48
    What do you think, Preston? This isn't, like, a solid A in my mind. Maybe with, like, Pinbird, it might be an S, honestly, but it's weird. I don't think it has a natural modern. I think, actually, like, Whitewater plays more like a modern than Attack does.
    25:04
    So it kind of, like, hybrids in that way, which is a good thing, because you have two games that are pretty controllable. So it's like if you guys both think S, like I'm actually cool with that. I probably have it as an A because there's no game made in the last like 25 years. Yeah. Well, I'm looking at them now. You're absolutely right. Is it the oldest modern? I'm trying to look. I think there's – well. Might be. Yeah. I mean, you have Circus Voltaire. Was this before? Yeah. That would be the question, I think. I don't see anything. I think everything else has been made after 2000. Yeah, I think Circus Voltaire and AFM are your – thank you for the follow, Marday. Appreciate you. What up, Conrad? So I think I'm going to – here's what we'll do. Let's put it in S, and then when we get to the end, we can drop it if it's not truly S tier. All right. Here's the thing, I say A, but I don't know if I would have, like, an S anyway. So the fact that EMs exist, like, in every bank, I don't know if I would ever just, like, be like, oh, yeah, an S. All right, so next we've got Bank 2, sponsored by Yopsicle, Circus Voltaire, King of Diamonds, Roadshow, and Super Orbit. So why don't you guys tell me your glaring, which one, let's say you have all four and you have to throw one out. Which is the one you would throw out of this? Bank.
    26:41
    I'm saying King of Diamonds, just because I don't... Super Orbit? I mean, it's got to be one of those two. I kind of figured. What is Super Orbit? Is that a reskin, or is that truly its own...
    26:54
    Oh, gosh. Richie Terry. Like, we need him in chat. I know, right? Like, I don't... I looked at the play field, and I just said, no. Like, I'm good. When I was reading Solid State, we went Frontier and then we went to this but like, oh, opposite ends of the spectrum.
    27:13
    It's the Solid State remaster of Orbit. Thank you. And I don't know what that is either. You want Super Orbit or you want a mini-games?
    27:26
    I think you're right to know Joe is really good too because King of Diamonds is awful. So what is your objective on King of Diamonds for those that have never played it. You want to get every card, I'm pretty sure.
    27:39
    Yeah, I should be missing it. Yeah, and it's been an Expo Classic for the last two years, so I've been paying $3.30 to play that one game at a time.
    27:50
    It's not awesome. I think there's like a thousand bonus if you get all the cards. Gotcha. But, like, you can't skillfully get the ace, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure it's, like, in the middle top of the play field. Right up there? Yeah, it has to hit that So you have to have the pop bumper pop to the other pop bumper That hits that or something like that So it's really bad I'm probably Yeah, I'm probably throwing out King of Diamonds I'll keep Super Orbit and just cross my fingers Fair enough You know, try a new game type of thing Right? You don't see Super Orbit everywhere So I like Circus Voltaire as a tournament game I've played it at Papa, no, The Beast, and InDisc. That's where I remember playing it most recently. I like it really well, too. Yeah, I love it because I think it embodies the perfect amount of difficulty.
    28:52
    And it almost feels like sometimes you're safe when it's roaming around the play field because it doesn't have the traditional exit lanes on the left and right. But that stupid little balloon will send it off into the left, and you have to make a good move in order to preemptively prevent it from going down that left outline into whatever the boom award is. I love the mech of the ringkeeper, whatever his name is. But the thing is, it takes so long. So, like, the cues, if it's ever in, like, a card tournament cue, it takes forever because everybody always gets to the first ring leader. And then you're hoping to get to that third one for the multiball. And then it's got a traditional multiball at the left ramp. It's always tough, and I always feel decent with the score at least above 25,000,030 if we're in a card format or any sort of other format. So I'm interested to see how this one plays. What are your thoughts on Circus, both of you? it's fine.
    29:59
    It's a fine game. You don't like it? Quite a bit, though. The problem is, like, it's not a problem, I guess, but I remember D82s was really difficult, like, really tight.
    30:12
    The thing that is really safe on this game is to just shoot the left ramp for Arc Star, because a lot of times you'll come to a trap on your right flipper and you can just continually shoot it. And so if you combine that into your second ringmaster is, I think, a hurry-up multi-ball, that's good. You can also do a step where you get high wire as well, which are, it's kind of like the strings of things, like targets in terms of lighting that lock on the same left ramp. So if you, like, lock your third ball when you start Arc Star, you actually can do, like, a triple stack multi-ball. So that's pretty cool. I don't like the speed from the juggler sometimes Because when you hit it off the left I was going to say This game does have Like the juggler catch is pretty bad When it comes kind of out of that middle area Yeah Some of that kills you and also like catching off the orbits In this game I find to be a little bit Awkward So in terms of like having control In a modern it's not You know The easiest modern to control But I do think it's a really good game overall Yeah, it's funny how the first two moderns Are the oldest games in the first two banks Roadshow, you know We're probably not seeing anybody get to the The wizard mode there Because it's insane I love Roadshow I've always wanted to own one I just think it's the perfect amount of camp But for competition Or for competitive pinball I can see why some people There tends to be a lot of mechanical issues That I've seen with the thing in front of Ted and just overall. However, I know we had it like TPF. Everyone would get the skill shot on the short plunge because they forgot to remove something and would always feed into it. So I was like, all right, free.
    32:04
    But I enjoy it. I like bashing it, just like AFM bashing the saucer. I like bashing the middle. And you can have some really solid games on it without, I mean, that left side is obviously super dangerous. Are you guys... What's the phrase? I'm going to forget. I'm going to scratch what I was going to ask. What are your thoughts on Roadshow?
    32:32
    I think it's a good game. I think it's maybe my favorite game in this bank. Okay. Yeah, no, it's good. Solid.
    32:44
    It's fine. I don't know. I have issues with Roadshow just because you're not progressing anything when you're doing multi-ball things in this for the most part. It's really just multi-ball. It's a good thing to do early on.
    33:02
    If I was playing this in match play, I'd probably have just tried to mode out, honestly, because the multi-ball is really variable.
    33:12
    It's very upper-flipper dependent because your first jackpot is obviously 10, but your second one's red. And I find that side shot to be pretty difficult on a lot of copies. And so you're only getting, like, one jackpot in a multi-baller if you're averaging somewhere around there. It's 45 mil. And I feel like I can get more points in the modes. And the ramps, like, feed the in-lanes, obviously, right? And when you feed an in-lane, if you hit the other ramp, you get bonus acts as well. so I just find that like on hard playing road shows I think that's probably a safer strategy especially in like a match play like this obviously if you're playing minor probably different but yeah I don't know the game's fine but it definitely lends a lot of variability because like you could be working toward the multiple the whole time and then you come out of it with, like, 70 mil. Yeah, exactly. You're still on last. How are you qualifying each city?
    34:20
    You're just, like, shooting ramps. So, like, you're getting miles as you shoot. And, like, if it falls in, like, a scoop and stuff like that, like, you get miles there.
    34:29
    So I find that to be, like, it's Lawler, right? So, like, it's just, like, shoot some ramps and then shoot the scoop.
    34:39
    So it's... Classic Lawler. It's fine. But I think the modes are, like, actually, you know, they're decent. So a lot of them are, like, shoot ramps as you get, like, deeper into it. And, again, that's a controllable part of this game.
    34:55
    I think you guys have convinced me to lower this a little as far as my ranking. So where are you putting bank number two on your tier? I'll let you two go first. I like to wait for Joe I'll say I feel like You're making it sound like you rank it high I'm going to go I had it at a B But I think Only because of Circus Voltaire And Roadshow And if we're talking 50% That's an F But I don't think it's worth an F I had a B in my head There's a word's next.
    35:41
    So I think a C is a fair assessment here. I just think if you are rolling Super Orbit King of Diamonds back to back, and now you're leaning into Circus and you're trying to survive a plunge, you're just like, this makes sense. What am I doing? Is this the plunge of Death Group?
    36:06
    All right, let's go. There's probably worse ones to be done. You play Roadshow where you can't hit a ramp.
    36:14
    Or you're hitting ramps through pops, right? Yeah. Yeah, Roadshow you can at least short punch. All right. On to the next thing. You can kind of unhouse that. Group three presented by Marco's Specialties. We've got Transformers LE, our first somewhat modern. Old Chicago, Lethal Weapon 3, and Incredible Hulk. You see Old Chicago everywhere. Transformers, I did play it last year in Pinburg. I thought it played fair. I didn't think it was insane. Lethal Weapon 3, you know, I played that at the UK Open. I liked the way they had it set up. And then the Incredible Hulk, I think I've seen it once. So I truly have no clue what to do on Incredible Hulk. Let me get your thoughts on the EM in this group, Old Chicago.
    37:01
    That's a good EM, I think, at least. Yeah. As far as EMs go, like, I'm good with all of Chicago. Yeah, I mean, it's simple.
    37:12
    I'm pretty sure, like, ZMAC and the other ones, and I'm like, ouch. Like, I'll take the diamonds, actually. It's fine. I'm curious how the saucer kick out is. Otherwise, yeah, we'll see how it is. Yeah, I mean, there's always going to be variability with that, right? And I think if we get into EMs, like, we're going to see a couple good ones, But, like, in terms of the full 25 list, like, I'll take this one. That's fine. This is above the bell curve as far as EMs, you're saying?
    37:39
    On my list, yeah. So do you guys like EMs with a mid-game double bonus? Like, only on ball three and ball five. Do you prefer that, or is that sort of, you know, I'll take what I can get?
    37:56
    You think this will give me such a five ball? I hope it is. Yeah, 100%. That's fine. I think it's worse when it's double bonus on last ball or double triple, something like that. I think what is that game called? Target something? I think it's single double triple on that or something really ridiculous. Single single double isn't as variable. And you get cash outs, right? So you can actually take away some of the variability by being able to cash at the scoop. Okay, I think I'm agreeing with you on Old Chicago. Let's talk about Lethal Weapon 3. Thoughts on this being included in the Pinberg Banks?
    38:42
    Lethal Weapon 3 is cool. I'm assuming the ROM where you can't just ramp out will be on. I played it actually this past weekend at a local tournament.
    38:52
    Again, that sausage account from the left is going to be one to look for. Even the copy that I played locally, it was a little squirrely where it almost just barely hit the tip of the right flippers. You would have to just react to that accordingly. But yeah, basically you're shooting one, two, threes, you know, going through. Where's the saucer on this? On the left? It's on the left, yeah. Oh, okay. Is that your... Is one there? It's the feed one, yeah. Right, but the left one is the one that kind of kicks it out, like, directly to the flippers. Is this one where you can get a pity multiball on ball three, or am I mistaken?
    39:31
    I think there's... You still have to qualify normally, right? I think you can set that up like Catholic playing. I don't think they'll have that for tournament. Gotcha. All right. Well, yeah, I like Lethal Weapon 3. It's nice when you can have C&C Music Factory playing while you're sweating and anxious. All right. Before we talk about Incredible Hulk, Transformers LE. I feel like this is one of the more brutal pins from Pinberg last year. Did either of you get to play it? I did, yeah.
    40:16
    That's right. Sorry. Sorry, Preston. It was tough. It played super fast. That's what I remember from it Are you Autobot or Decepticon? Which one are you picking?
    40:33
    I know there's a right answer and I don't remember what Isn't it Autobot? I feel like the What do you know about it Preston? Maybe you can help us I think it is This is so This like kind of mid-2000s Stern era Not my forte of like rules knowledge I try to learn what I can Before I go to stuff I know they're in But I think You're right I don't Know I know there is a right pick I think Transformers is An abomination of a modern Do it based on vibes And then Incredible Hulk I think I've Played it once I'm assuming I'm just going to get up to it and See there's no picture Of the play field there it just says incredible action Incredible sound incredible Reliability have you guys played this I'm pretty sure they had A villain It's fine My only real memory of it is not playing it But watching the Papa video With Steven I don't think Teal has had to have that Fantastic On this Not my favorite game Where are you guys ranking this bank? I have a strong feeling I know where I want to rank it But I'll let you guys go and then we'll figure it out.
    41:53
    S A B C or F I think this is one of my Fs despite old Chicago being an OK Yeah Whatever you see, I'm OK with it. I'm not a Lethal Weapon 3 fan either, so. What about you, Joe? Top one for me. It's C, F. If there was a D category, still I'd put a D, but it's toeing the line between C and F for me. Yeah, I'm dropping this to an F just because of Incredible Hulk.
    42:27
    Old Chicago is really the saving grace for me on this because I really like Old Chicago. Which is crazy. Yeah.
    42:34
    This bank just doesn't scream like, yes, I can't wait to play it. I don't think the EM can move the bank a full tier in my mind.
    42:44
    So I just, yeah, I don't know. That's a really brutal solid state It's a very awkward play field You need a lot of luck On the game honestly It just feels very unfamiliar And I don't like the idea of Not knowing anything I mean it's my own fault right there For not knowing anything about it But also I just don't have this desire Or urge to go and play these casually. Like, if I see them, maybe, if, you know, as a novelty. But Old Chicago would be the one I'd play probably more casually. As for skill issue, got it. See you for Chicago. What's up, Freshmaker? We're going to go on to the next... Like, a little bit of a momentum day. Like, if your momentum's going, like, really poorly and you get put on this bank, you get slaughtered. But if your momentum's going really well, like, I think you probably destroy your group on this bank. Give me a top tier player on that bank actually Yeah Alright Next bank Group 4 by Reclaim Arcade Sopranos High Hand Hollywood Heat Black Knight Joe what are your thoughts on the Sopranos We'll start with that one I like Sopranos It's one of my favorite It's Gomez right I think so yeah it's a cool game it's one of the games that i kind of played when i first started playing um so a little bit of sentimental value obviously great theme um yeah it's cool i'm good with sopranos i remember that d82 they take out the plunger right or they do something so you can't um i forgot what the the cheat is or the exploit and that's like a you can short plunge and not qualify your play field, shoot the drop for the multi-ball thing, and just wrench repeat. You can start multi-balls without ever qualifying your play field, basically. Do they put fat rubbers on the multi-ball drop target or around it? I feel like I saw that, too. I saw like a fat green rubber. Yeah, like near it. There's like a post near it so it's harder to shoot. It was somewhere on the play field. That's all I remember about the District 82 one. Preston, what do you like about or don't like about Sopranos?
    45:11
    I think because if you said Sopranos is too easy, it plays forever. And so I think they'll kind of pendulum swing and make it really, really hard. And I think you'll be too hard of a modern, honestly. I think this is kind of a bank that flies by. Or not flies by, because there's actually weirdly some controllable older games. kind of.
    45:38
    Sopranos, it feels like one of those games that should go well and you have qualified your lockball three and you're at two mil or something.
    45:49
    It shoots okay. I'm not the biggest fan. It's kind of a fun game to shoot around in tournament. I'm not thrilled by it, especially the tight swings and the outlanes can be pretty brutal if they set it up hard. Yeah, I know people love it. It's one of the older titles that actually sells at a good value compared to everything else in the market right now, just because it's not as common. It's also a single danger game, which is, I think, typically that era was.
    46:24
    I think sometimes you can set, like, I remember Monopoly was like the one or three in terms the tilt warnings. I think there might have been fixes where you could have two on it, but if this is like a one warning modem, that's pretty brutal to deal with as well. Then we got high hand.
    46:42
    Yeah, I mean, there's not a lot to say about high hand. Do you have any interesting thoughts you want to say about it?
    46:50
    I mean, tilt lenders, I mean, things to shoot at. You want outlanes, which is pretty frustrating, and you want a saucer that you can't really shoot directly, but I don't hate it. Yeah, not the worst.
    47:04
    Okay, then we got Josh Sharp in a nice jacket here at Hollywood Heat. I don't know. I've seen this reskin so many times. There's one near us that's changed Hollywood to the city near me.
    47:20
    You know, it's there. It's fine. Thoughts on Hollywood Heat. I don't have amazing insight about it. I just know that I like, of this era, I like Genesis. So this is going to be below that for me. It is not Genesis, unfortunately.
    47:43
    I think this pairing right here, this bottom two, is by far the worst pairing of these two eras. Black Knight is incredibly boring in my mind. And Hollywood Heat has a weird, I mean, I want to say upper play field. It's not really an upper play field. It's not the same, like, dab here. But, like, when you get to the bottom play field, like, you need to be on the left flipper. There's nothing to shoot with the right flipper. Like, absolutely nothing. And transferring the ball is also very frustrating. There's this ridiculous jump ramp on the left that no one shoots for because there's this wide open out lane by it. So if you miss, like, it just goes in the out lane. And there's, like, a gate, like, right next to the flipper on the left, so, like, she has to just pound into the gate, basically.
    48:33
    And, like, the ramp to start the multiball in the game is, like, I know, like, it's, like, razor thin, kind of, and, like, really bad to shoot at. It's, like, I think it's an abomination in the game. I don't envy anyone's mistake. Would you have put If Flash Gordon was here Would that have been a better substitute Than Black Knight I feel like Flash Gordon would have Elevated this I mean Elevated this There's a Hollywood Heat for sale In chat Oh yeah I know people like that People who love Hollywood Heat And we had one in the area And like I first started like competing And like headed in Like it's just one of those Games that like from the moment I've played it I've just hated everything about the game So There's dozens of them dude dozens Note to self pick Hollywood Heat if we ever get to play Um alright where are we putting this I'm assuming this is F Yeah for me it's F Black Knight, too, like, you can, if, like, with the feed that comes out, like, I remember at a Mega Match Play playoffs, like, all I would do is shoot the lock for 5, 8 over and over again without ever qualifying. Like, my goal is to just never go into the bottom play field. So, it's not my favorite game either, because basically I just sat there shooting the same thing forever for not many points.
    50:15
    All right. Bank 5. Joe, you got an F on that, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. It does it yet. I mean, we've got to have some Fs. I'm sorry. Not every bank is going to be a decent or a winner. So, all right. Group five, we've got the Pittsburgh PGA pinball, PGH pinball, excuse me, Pittsburgh pinball, group five. We got Dungeons & Dragons Pro, Freakout, Taxi, and Mata Hari. Three of the four I love. Joe reminded me that this was there last week. It's a reskin. Freakout's a reskin of something. So let's just talk about Dungeons & Dragons Pro because I know the code has been changing recently, and I feel like the last code I saw was the Dragon multiball was hard to start, and then they reverted it. So what do you think about this as the modern for the bank in this year's Pinberg? I didn't think, I mean, I know that they always pick recent pins to add to these big tournaments because they're newer. People now have some play on them. For some reason, I just thought this wasn't going to be part of this year's Pinberg. I can see why it is. You're going to have people that obviously know it, have played it on location, or have it in their own house because it's a great IP or a big IP. I don't mind it, but I don't know. You don't have the largest bank of moderns to work with as well Hence why we have Attack from Mars and Circus But what are your thoughts on dungeons being included in Pinberg this year?
    51:57
    I know I've heard a lot of conversation with And even playing it recently with Scout Pilgrim in chat Saying that it could be a one-shot game if you want it to be I mean, it's not my favorite of the new Stern pieces Carlos is saying it's fine How many eyes though? If it's a lot of eyes that means it's not fine So here's my thing with this game We assume that every game off the factory floor at Stern is tournament styled and can just be played in the tournament Venom was actually like that way where it's a progress game but it has I think actually decent tournament code at this point Dungeons and Dragons I don't think is that at all I don't think it was ever meant to be in tournaments and I think that's completely okay I like that they're trying this kind of thing with Stern having three releases a year if we get like two games that are kind of tournament games and one game that's not and like kind of this alternate pinball I would say. I think that's totally cool. We just have to realize that we probably shouldn't put it in because it's not really meant to be played competitively.
    53:24
    There's always a balance for them to do the story mode for the home owner and then make it flowy and competitive enough for the tournament scene. Because they have people that work there that are highly ranked competitive players. And I think this, I agree 100% with what you just said This is really more focused on progression And advancing this RPG mechanic That they're really trying to sell Because that feeds into Insider Connected And it might feed into a new revenue stream for them So this one, as far as including it in a tournament I think it's way too over the line For the way it was made And who it's intended for to be a strong tournament candidate. I mean, you only have so many to choose from for a 25-bank major like this. But, yeah, I completely agree. I think it will do an effective job of hiding itself because of how many banks there are. As long as they just don't put it in finals, I think it will probably go okay.
    54:30
    We're going to see a lot of grits and repeat, I think, left orbit to play the cube, multiple. I think there's a dog mode early on that you can play that is pretty decent points, but everything else you can start to play is not, so as long as you know where you're going on the map or whatever,
    54:54
    I don't know. It's not even a game I've bothered to learn because I'm like, it's just not a tournament game in my mind. So, we'll see how it holds up. Maybe with new code down line. It can become one in the future, but I just, like, this game feels 95% story to me, and I think that's really cool, and it's just, it doesn't feel like a tournament game, though, so.
    55:21
    Yeah, I agree. Well, we'll see how it holds up in this tournament, and I'm really interested to see what the scores are, just based after the first day, see kind of where they level out on the bell curve. Then we have Taxi, System 11 Darling. I love this. I think it's an absolute banger, as the kids would say, for a tournament. There's so many ways you can make it difficult, giant rubbers,
    55:52
    tinkering with the little diner cup up top on the right. What do you love about Taxi? Just kidding. Yeah, I promise I'm not all negative.
    56:06
    Taxi's great, I think. So it's, you know, pick up your passengers, lock the balls, play your 300K like A and B, and try to get a jackpot. And I think it works really well in tournament. I see it a lot of times. What do you think about taxi, Joe?
    56:25
    Yeah, I'm cool with taxi. I'm curious how strong that right flipper's going to be to make it up that left ramp. Yeah, that's huge because sometimes it has to come down the in lane with enough momentum because you can't make it up through a cradle. Mata Hari is interesting because I remember playing various copies and there are some where shooting up the middle wasn't really advised. I remember I feel like the feed from the District 82 one just kept coming straight down the middle. So then you had to switch your strategy. I like it, though. I think Mata Hari is a perfectly serviceable tournament game, tournament pin. Any thoughts on Mata Hari before we talk about the reskin of Doozy up here?
    57:11
    Mata Hari is fine. All right. Recoil. Yeah, I actually like it. And I think shooting the Orbit is probably the most ideal. If you don't know how it plays, I think that's probably the best strategy to go with. Thank you for the follow, Jason. Appreciate you. Thank you again for coming on our last episode.
    57:29
    Zoller's in chat. Yeah. Appreciate that follow, man. And thank you again for doing our episode. Got a lot of good feedback. So kudos and all the kind words to you. All right, Freak Out. I didn't play this. I don't know what it is. I just see five pop bumpers up there. Did any of you played Doozy or Freak Out?
    57:50
    I played this copy last year. Okay. Yeah, a bit of a luck box. But, I mean, Bergbook you mentioned, it is a beautiful re-theme. The game's gorgeous in person. Okay.
    58:03
    One thing to note that someone, I forgot who it was pointed out. I think it might have been, actually, I don't know. The plastics above the swings extend way over the rubber's do. So, just got to be mindful of that. Oh, so there's not as much protection up here. Oh, yeah. Oh, interesting. Okay, cool. You know, this isn't the worst bank. I think the inclusion of, oddly enough, D&D hurts it the most. I am going to give my grade of a C. What do you guys think?
    58:41
    I think C's good. Yeah, I think that's good. I would have it as a B. And I think I do like more base down the line as I saw them. So I'm a little worried we're like bottom heavy, but I think that's still correct right now. I think if D&D was something else, a different modern for me, if it was like even this is just me. If it was Circus Voltaire, I'd probably put it at a B just because I really like Taxi and Mata Hari. But I think C is a fair grade here. So we've got one S, Group 1. And again, Group 1 is this bank. It's got Attack from Mars, Starpool, Whitewater, and Frontier. And then we've got two Fs, the Transformers and Sopranos Bank, and two Cs, the Circus Voltaire and Dungeons & Dragons Pro Bank. So we've got a lot to go through, so we're going to keep going.
    59:32
    This one, Group 6, presented by Skillshot Repair. We have Spider-Man by Stern with a conveniently placed tournament play. Topper and the advertisement Blue Chip And then you've got Pinbot and Paragon Joe, which one do you want to talk about first?
    59:54
    Oh You talking about Spider-Man? I guess we're getting to the top left Clockwise, like we've been going I mean, just looking at it I mean, this is a top five game for me So this is automatically going S tier For me at this bank I mean, Paragon also is a great game I think for tournament I also played the Paragon It was in the Transformers, so the Paragon played fine.
    60:18
    And then, I mean, Pinbot's fine. But, I mean, if you want to start with Spider-Man, Spider-Man's, yeah.
    60:24
    Steve Ritchie, and I love that game. So good. Yeah, Paragon was the one that prevented me from getting to the A Division because I tried to tap pass on ball three, and I only needed a little more, and I blew it, and then it fluttered all the way to the left outlet, and I'm like, God damn it, I was so close. But yeah so So you didn't decide to prop up the cleverness Like you both did Yeah it was literally That's okay And you know what's funny There was a guy watching and he's like You were trying to tap pass I go yep All I had to do was literally hit the tap pass Send it up top and I would have got the point to advance to A but would have could have should have Spider-Man I agree with I think it's an absolutely amazing Pin I love when I see it in a tournament They can do funny things with the Doc Ock Shot I believe As far as making it harder to shoot I know we discussed this on our Last two episodes ago It has one of the toughest wizard modes Again just briefly discussing Obviously in tournaments like this you're not getting to the wizard mode Unless you're having the game Game of your life but I think it's got so many different avenues to try and pick up points, and I don't feel it's unfair getting to that. I know on tournament settings, it'll be harder to activate your black suit multi-ball lock, but other than that, the shots and options for you, which I think for me, now that I'm getting more into the competitive scene, the options are such a big factor in whether or not I like what I see when a pin is making its appearance in the tournament. Preston, your thoughts on Spider-Man?
    62:13
    I think what the game is, it's a little grindy in terms of tournament strategy, but that's okay. I think it's a controllable game. I think the shot flow is fun. The fact that your best value is typically shooting the left targets as well as Sandman in multi-ball. I mean, that part's a little, yeah, but overall well, it's like fine modern for sure. All right. What are your thoughts on the rest of the group? Feel free to start with any of the remaining three.
    62:49
    Yeah, I would say with Pinbot, that's also like kind of a grindy game a little bit. As long as they keep the solar value thing aggressive, I think there's something sort of wrong for that. There is. I think this is, yeah, I think this is strong. I'd rather see, like, Jackpot here, obviously. But, um... No, like, Pinpot's totally fine. Like, I actually don't really have a complaint about this bank overall. Like, I think I actually like Blue Chip as well. So, um... That game was in Indus this past year, Classics. Um, kind of a spinner game, uh, for the most part. Uh, in Paragon, like, you know, you feel like you have, like, a semblance of control, at least. And there's a lot of, like, skill things you can do with the game.
    63:41
    Building bonus can be a bit frustrating, but, like, I think, like, really strong tournament game. And there's a reason it's been in so many tournaments forever. I always feel a sense of accomplishment when you've actually done something on Paragon. Because I feel like I earned it. Like, I didn't get a few lucky rebounds or anything like that. So I really like this bank. I remember Blue Chip from prior tournaments, but Pinbot, just another great System 11 for me. I agree with wanting it to be Jackbot, but I do love the addition. I think this is a really well put together bank. Where are you putting it grade-wise, Joe?
    64:24
    Yeah, I mentioned, I mean, with Spider-Man being in the bank, it's going S tier for me. Okay. How about you, Preston? I'll continue with this one, I think. Yeah, I'm going to agree on an A. I think it could be an A. It could be a strong A. Yeah, I mean, it's almost not.
    64:43
    I'm going to tell you, I understand why you put it at S. I feel like there's maybe one or two banks that are just a little bit better, maybe a better EM if you can choose that. I do think Pinbot could be replaced by something a little better, but Paragon and Spider-Man are such strong pins. I get the S inclusion. So let's go to the next one.
    65:09
    Bank 7 from the Replay Foundation. We got Star Wars Pro, Jack in the Box, Adam's Family, and Harlem Globetrotters. So, Preston, give me your impressions of this bank.
    65:27
    This bank feels really traditional, I would say. like Harlem and Adams have been mainstays in tournaments forever. I think Star Wars, I think that's a good game for people who know Star Wars and are used to it because of the shot multiplier function in that game. And there's certain people who know the paths really well with that and are used to kind of maneuvering that.
    65:55
    Overall, I'd be happy to be on this bank, even though I find Adams to be incredibly boring. But it is, well, I think the one last year was really tough. But that's the only place I'm finding, like, a little bit of complaint, I guess, with this thing. I think Harlem is fantastic.
    66:16
    It played awesome last year when it was brought into finals. Yep. And Jack in the Box is very whatever. It's DEM, though. So, you know, like, I just can't rail against EMs like that much. Like, there's definitely EMs I really like, but most EMs I'm just not going to like. That's another one. I'm just, yeah, like, good luck and have fun. Good luck, have fun. Yeah, I remember Adams in the Bash at the Bird Bank.
    66:47
    100% agree with Harlem. We saw Escher destroy it, I think, in the last game. and then Star Wars, you really have to know basic meta on that. Joe, what do you think about this bank?
    67:02
    Yeah, I think I'd mostly agree. I mean, Harlem, like Preston said, is a strong tournament game. Same with Adams.
    67:14
    Jack in the Box I did play last year. Again, yeah, it's kind of a pretty blah, exactly. Whatever, Richie. Yeah, pretty. Star Wars is okay.
    67:29
    Worst plunge in pinball, but if you can survive the plunge and possibly. You have to see him put, like, a small ball save on it, to be honest. That would be cool. Two seconds would be good. You know, I never thought about that, the worst plunge. And, man, Star Wars is definitely up there.
    67:48
    Wow, yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, The Darling for Me is Harlem. It's one of my favorite tournament games, but it's not enough to save this bank. I'm telling you right now, because of Harlem, I'm giving it a C. I don't think it's an F.
    68:03
    Wow, you're really dumb on this. Well, yeah. I was going to go strong B. Okay. What do you think, Preston?
    68:10
    I'm, like, middle of the road on this B. Like, not strong, not a weak. Like, I'm happy to play this bank at the same time. It's like, okay. Like, it's decent. Yeah, I just don't have, I like Adam's family, but I don't like it in tournaments as much. I like watching people blow it up. I've done well on it a couple times, but I just, I don't know. Star Wars to me is, it's just there. Of all the moderns, it's one of the lower valued ones for me. Maybe it's just that plunge itself. But Harlem I put on a pedestal That's why I was giving it a C But I'm happy to put it as a B This is a democracy So let's go to the next one Group 8 by the Pittsburgh Pinball League This is Family Guy, Aquarius High Speed and Quicksilver I have fallen in love with Quicksilver The more I played it at Yegpin The Beast And I think it's fantastic I love the way it shoots For such an older title I think The approach on it I've seen people Gasp to activate one of the spinners And then go from there or building up their bonus I played In Yagpin with a group of guys Two of them owned one They each owned one I was like oh awesome And they just mauled me I think they got close to 2 million points on it Which if you played this is pretty solid High speed I truly enjoy Even though Getaway I feel is the better model The low points for me here I just never have a good time on Family Guy I find it super boring I don't appreciate the mini playfield I think it's a lame sort of gimmick And there's so much to me you have to do to make this fun for tournaments That I just never have fun On your island, Joe Stevie's handball is usually disabled for tournaments but go ahead and give me I'll probably have the captive thing where it goes back and forth Give me your thoughts, because those are my thoughts that's why I wanted to go first I mean, I kind of was on the same boat with Family Guy and then I played it recently at like a local we had a mega match play and I was in the bank and kind of grew to enjoy playing it.
    70:44
    But I mean, it is, I think, relatively simple and can get a little monotonous with the shots especially.
    70:51
    But I think it's a good game. I'm sure it'll be adjusted accordingly for a tournament play. And Aquarius, yeah.
    71:02
    Richie mentioned it's a shitty luck box category, and I think I would agree. Preston, before we go, I'm looking at the list of moderns and I feel like this is for me, I'm looking at all of them I feel like Family Guy is the worst modern well, Avatar is the best Mando Pro is the best I think Avatar is good, to be honest I've come around on that one Avatar is weird, they play Spider-Man But he really is So if you play it like Spider-Man When we watch Oroco play it at Yagpin I can see why people Kind of can get into it I played it last year At Pinburn And it was just brutal But yeah So I'm just trying to see all these moderns And I feel like for me Family Guy is The one I like the least But that's just given my little take there. What is your take on Group 8? Or at least Family Guy, Preston. Yeah, I mean, I think you could definitely make the argument to me about the Family Guy thing. I think the thing that Family Guy is really bad at is the pretty large multi-ball, which I'm actually assuming is on. I think that rules really, really bad for competitive play.
    72:34
    I personally don't like shooting this game as well. But I see some of the merit to the game overall. I think this game was actually playable last year based on some of the scores I saw when I saw groups on it.
    72:53
    So, but yeah, as a modern, like, it's not what I'm looking for at all. So I think that definitely drops this bank down. especially like Aquarius is like one of the worst DMs from people who I very much trust that told me this but I think the bottom two games to your point are good. I actually prefer this version of High Speed over Getaway and what was the other game? They are High Speed or Quicksilver. Yeah, I'm a fan of Quicksilver as well this was in Batch of the Berg last year it was I think decently playable so So I think that's kind of a fun game to shoot, and with all the flipper skill stuff you can do on it, I think it's a pretty strong contender there.
    73:40
    So this is another one where the bottom two games I'm a big fan of, and the top two I very much could leave.
    73:48
    Yeah, exactly. The only worry I have is high speed gets held back if it's too steep or the flippers aren't strong enough, so it can't make left orbits around through the upper flipper. So it could be variable that way, and I just hope it's set up in a way that everything functions, I guess, as intended. What is your strategy if it's set up that way?
    74:16
    Probably to shat and shoot freeways. Gotcha. Yeah. Chat. Lois, yeah, strap in. This is going 48 hours.
    74:28
    We have Richie there. What up, Rod? Or Ryan? And what's up, Rocco? So, okay. This bank, I don't, I mean, other than Quicksilver, it's like that's the shining star for me. I'm going to give you my grade of F. I don't like this. Wow. Yeah. I don't like this bank. What? But, Quicksilver is not, not. I just really don't like Family Guy in tournaments. I've started to really hate seeing it, and I used to love walking up to it because I was like, oh, it's a nice break. It's got some... It's got personality, but it's so boring to me. And I hate shooting it. I hate the way it's set up sometimes. I had it in Yagpin in my last round, and I was like, well, this is a fine way to go out. It's been a shitty second day. Might as well fucking play Family Guy. That's a mom and dad game again Yeah When it's all going bad Of course it's going to go bad on Family Guy It's an awful punch game By the way Give me your grade on group 8 And again if you haven't seen it This is group 8 Family Guy, Aquarius, High Speed, and Quicksilver I'm giving it an F What are you two giving it?
    75:49
    Oh thank you Game Time Television for that sub Appreciate you I mean, I think it's got three, like, okay games and then one shitter. So I don't think it's, like, F tier. I would say – I would put it at least in C tier. Okay. Yeah, I'm C as well with this one. All right. I'll give you guys the C there again. You can put it at the back of C, though, if you want. It's, like, leaning into the F category. Right here? Yeah. Or is it here? It's like that. Is it here or is it – Yeah. I just think it's like high speed sort of well though Like high speed and heavy is your I think are a fun combo Alright let's go to bank nine Alright Presented by the beast Jeff Teolis Make sure you go and check out Coverage of the beast And I believe Is Tom streaming Pinberg or is Tom is streaming both Pinberg and beast Check out Fox City's Pinball for all the awesome coverage and he'll be covering the Beast 2 which is now bigger. I can't wait to go see the new place. We've got Cactus Canyon Remake, Target Pool.
    77:00
    I think Debra Tallman and St. Hura Zoe had a really good game of Target Pool last year. Doctor Who and Alien Poker. Joe, give me your impression of Cactus Canyon in tournaments.
    77:16
    Thank you for calling, Anvil. I think Cactus is okay in tournaments. I find it a little boring to play.
    77:29
    But, yeah, I'm kind of meh on the game. Yeah. What about Cactus? I would never play it for fun. What's the star of this group for you?
    77:42
    It might be Target Pool, honestly. Target Pool is a banner of a game. It's got many flippers, but you can job catch on pass It's great Alright, Preston, what is your star of this group?
    77:58
    I would say the group that is one of the better EMs I think Alien Poker is the star of the group And why do you say that?
    78:08
    There's a lot of things you can do on it Based on how it's set up you get three flippers and like it's I'm going to say semi-controllable for that era of games and I think there's a lot of skill involved with that game and I think you usually drain off of your own mistakes for the most part. 100% agree. I feel like it gives you a good return feed from a lot of the shots to the right side. This is where I learned scissored stage flipping. stage scissor from Travis. Why don't you guys is there something wrong with Doctor Who here? I thought everybody loved Doctor Who. I really enjoy it because of the loops. I just feel like if you get in a groove, you've really earned those 50 or 60 loops.
    79:02
    Yeah, I mean, I think it's fine. I've just played so many Doctor Whos where the setup is so variable that, like, I have no idea what this is. Like, I played one of Worlds with full flippers. I have no idea how to shoot that with full flippers. It just, it doesn't even make sense with my brain at all.
    79:22
    So, it's really about, like, finding, the thing is, like, you're not practicing these games, right, outside of, like, Steel City Springs. Like, you don't get 30 seconds before you play them.
    79:32
    So, if you get thrown on this bank and, like, you're just trying to get used to Doctor Who, that could take you, like, a whole game. So that's the only part that, like, I get a little worried about. But I think it is, like, still a good, what do they call it, like, late solid state or whatever. What about you, Joe?
    79:53
    Yeah, I can agree with that. Like Preston mentioned, the variability. And that's going to be, I think, kind of the deciding factor for most of the games we're talking about tonight, right? Yeah. You know the meta, like, you know, shooting loops, getting sonic booms. but it's like where is that side ramp shot going to be?
    80:13
    Generally on Doctor Who's I don't know, I try to do instead of just straight side ramp. Unless I see someone side ramp really easily, I'll just do instead. I feel like I've played versions where the video mode hasn't been nerfed, and I'm like, okay, I'll take a few eight-digit scores. Thank you for the follow, Joe Bear. I like this bank a lot, Cactus Canyon. I don't know. It's, yeah, not my favorite modern. Target pool. She said that the upper flipper at world was, and it's bleeped out of my screen. I love alien poker. I think that's one of my favorites of this era, and I really enjoy Doctor Who. Cactus Canyon, you know, I could take it or leave it, but it's not the worst modern. And Target pool, I drew an affinity towards last year after playing it and also watching it. And now that I have some experience with it, I look forward to actually playing it. So what grade are you giving this, Joe, this bank? I think this is a strong eight-year bank, if not knocking on the door of S. Yeah. What about you, Preston?
    81:24
    I'm really shocked. I'm just, like, agreeing with Joe on a lot of this. I actually do think this is an A. I don't think there's a bad game in the bank. So Look, am I having a ton of fun playing this thing? No, but in terms of Playing competitively I'll take the bet for sure This feels very fair to me Like I have a shot on every single one And if I mess up It's on me Especially with Cactus Canyon and Alien Poker I'm in agreement I think this is an A I wouldn't put it as strong I'd put it right here towards us Not here But I think this is definitely an A. Did I screw up?
    82:07
    No. Oh, yeah. So it's an A. Did we have group seven and B? Yeah, that was Star Wars, Harlem, Addams, and Jack in the Box. Okay. All right. Next group. Let's go to Bank 10. Almost halfway there. Presented by Turner Pinball. This is Ninja Eclipse, Spanish Eyes, Swords of Fury, and Dragon. So I was able to play when Ninja Eclipse was released. They brought a copy for us for the 2024 Titan Pinmasters F for tournament play. And it wasn't bad. Like, I was really digging some of the little new mechanics they were trying. The code was super early, so we weren't, like, getting the best of what it could offer. There's Spanish Eyes, Swords of Fury, and Dragon.
    83:04
    Preston, what do you think about this bank right here? Hey. Hello? I'm here. So, first of all, like, props to Turner. I'm going to like a first game and everything. and I am not going to talk really badly I just not a game I want to play competitively to be fair I do think they did a good job and it showed that they sold out and everything so I'm not going to shit on the game I guess I don't know it that well or anything so not only would I have to learn the game if I was playing that would be kind of frustrating because it's a modern and so there's a lot going on Like, it's just not something I want to be on. And the bank as a whole I think is kind of an abomination I think Swords is one of the worst games ever made I hate Spanish Eyes and I have no idea what Dragon is It feels like a game that, like, Richie's gonna tell me is good or something like that, and I'll be like, is it? Like, really? Yeah.
    84:11
    Looks like you're shooting cops in that game. Yeah, this is not a bank I ever want to be. I saw the Swords thing, too. They put, like, obviously you have to make it large somehow, But, like, they put, like, a post, like, a, like, lock thing. I'm just like, yeah, like, what are we doing? I mean, this is. I played the Swords last year, and I thought it was fine, but I also. Did it play, like, a normal length of time or something like that? It played a normal length of time. I played it with Alec and Adam Lefkoff.
    84:42
    There was a bit of a minor malfunction game that benefited me. I started a multi-ball with two balls in the lock.
    84:50
    and ended up stealing some blocks, which is nice. Scouts in the chat, they removed the upper playfield post, so you can't trap up on the upper playfield. It looks like it's going to be the same.
    85:06
    Otherwise, yeah, it's left orbit all day. Okay, Scouts saying that I played Proud of the Princess this weekend and that Dragon is somewhat the same, so I take back everything I said. Dragon's cursed.
    85:18
    And this is still an F in my mind. What is the approach on Spanish eyes? I forgot. I played this against Los in District 82. I completely forgot. Yeah, this is very much a geometry game. So the inner horseshoe-type loop is 5K. The saucer is dependent on how many stars you have, which if you look at the upper right and upper left, those two stars, two stars, and then there's two or one on each side near the flippers to the left and right, and that increases your saucer value.
    86:03
    Yeah, like, just not a game. Some people are, like, really good at the game. The reason I don't like it is because I'm actually, like, I feel like I'm very bad at the game, and yeah, I mean, it's definitely not the worst EM, But I don't like playing it at all I think it's one of those games where it's like Very fun to play casually But when you have to play it in competition You're just like, oh god Yeah I agree on most of these points I've only seen Swords of Fury once In a tournament setup I've seen it on location And I enjoy the campiness of it But for tournaments I don't think it's a strong choice Ninja Eclipse I don't have anything bad to say about it I understand the hesitation and trepidation on having it because of, you know, it's their first effort. Spanish Eyes, I don't remember liking it, but I was just trying to remember what the approach was and why I didn't like it. I've never played Dragon, so I'm not going to give an opinion. Let's give it a grade. I am firmly in the F category but I can see bumping it to a C because I do think Ninja Eclipse is stronger than maybe other people would give it credit for what about you guys?
    87:22
    I can put it in F I don't know I'm just going off of if I drew this bank how would I feel I think I would feel an F Yeah See the thing is if I learn ninja Books I could see Liking it in some form But in current State of what I know about the game and everything Like It's not a modern I know And that's typically where I try to have Advantages so for me also an F With everything else in the bank I don't think this is a I'll be honest I don't think this is a knock against Turner I just think the rest of the bank is so pool. Right. That's what I'm trying to emphasize. Like, I just have not gotten, like, I've played a really old, like, first code one, and that's the only time I've ever played it. So, like, I just don't want to see the bank. I think it fits the theme of the rest of our F. So, I think it's a fair assessment. We'll go on to the next one. Bank 11, presented by Final Round Pinball Podcast. We've got the latest from Keith Elwin, King Kong Pro, so no gong shenanigans here. Mini Zag, Robocop, and Mystic. I love Mystic. I think it's one of my favorites of this era to play in a tournament. I love getting some lucky bounces and completing a row and tic-tac-toe, getting that super bonus, then bashing that captive ball or ripping a spinner. I don't think the spinners are always automatic. I think the angle on that shot is always not different, but it's always something you have to get used to. But, man, it's so satisfying when you rip it. RoboCop has always kicked my ass. It kicked my ass at Indisc three years ago. And Ice Fakes, it kicked my ass last year at Pinberg. But I love having it in a tournament because I feel one day I'm going to get a hold of this. And that's, for me, that chase is so important. Ping Kong Pro I've streamed it a couple times I've played it I love the shot flow On some of the Some of the paths up top I think the code is Getting there for sure Mini Zag I don't remember Playing a lot Joe give me your impressions Or What not about Bank 11 uh Spank Rules yeah King Kong is great I've been enjoying it a lot since it's come out uh Robocop I think it's a great game um great music uh I'm a little traumatized I think from that was in Cleapon I believe it was two years ago my gosh I'm not sure is it nevermind you know take it back nevermind dude what the hell is it these are the games from Pittsburgh for Clay Pitt. I completely forgot about that. Yeah.
    90:30
    Well, uh, the outlay has that, like, oh my gosh. It's hammered down. Is that what it was? It was, like, hammered down into the play field. It's just like a pit. Like, the thing is like pit. God. Okay.
    90:46
    Well, that really changes things. I mean, no, Mystics Great, Mini Zag, I just looked it up. It's like a mini-flipper game, which I'm sure is going to be just fine, luck-boxy.
    90:58
    But I mean, that bounces out with Kong. I guess we'll see how Robocop is. I'll have scouts here to provide some insight.
    91:06
    Yeah, that copy was... That copy was hellish. Go ahead, Preston. Yeah, I'm a huge... I'm a European-born mystic. I'm actually a huge mystic fan. I think there's a lot of skill in filling out your grid properly and diverting when you want to divert. I actually was putting it on, like, every single card I had this past weekend at Sweeper. Despite, like, I wasn't playing certain games that I would probably more expect myself to play, but Mystic, like, it felt really good. The Beast one last year I thought played incredible, so I've been a fan of the game. I do think RoboCop is one of the toughest, like, late solid states to put in, especially because I think you have to shoot the targets to qualify, like, your spinner amounts that are going there. And, like, shooting the targets, like, that game is so fast. Like, I don't know how to react to the ball coming back, like, when it inevitably, like, fires off the target, hits it, and, like, it's just not a game that, like, I think it's a cool game. to be honest like there's a lot of uh fun things to pull out of it but it has a lot of malfunction issues we've seen in a tons of tournaments i hope it doesn't have that but uh like i wouldn't blame like the pinberg snap at all if it did like it's just it's like notorious for it and uh and i think with the in lanes up top or the lanes up top not spotting like your spinner lights I think that makes the game incredibly harder to find the points basically you have to survive a lot of dangerous things so overall, I don't think the EM drags it too much so I'm a big fan of Kong and Mystic and RoboCop I'm not incredibly thrilled to be playing, but yeah, it is what it is Yeah, I think I remember Mystic always being my game 5 on my Indus card a long time ago for classics, and it would either give me a decent amount or I'd just, like, get crushed on it. But it's, like, one of those ones I could step up, know what I need to do on it, and it doesn't always work the way I want it to, but I still love giving it a try. It reminds me of Paragon, where I feel a good score is well-earned and well-deserved. This bank, I really like this bank. I don't know Mini Zag enough. It's such a good bank, though. I feel like the three good ones, Robocop, Mystic, and King Kong, are just so strong. This is S tier for me. What about you two?
    93:52
    I would put it, I think, A, B, meaning A. Okay. Preston? Probably, I think Mini-Zag is actually a bad EM. Is it? so I think I would be B but I'm willing to bomb because I do think Kong has enough code where like it's a great 10 to 15 minute game right now and like you're not going to play 10 to 15 minutes anyway on it so I think like it's actually like fully coded out in terms of like tournament play at like hard settings so like I can see I think A is probably a fair destination. I just don't think that Robocop, like, man, that's a tough place, I'll say. It's just so difficult. I think the average for it, since I'm an S, let's say Joe, let's just say you're a B, and let's say Preston's A, let's put it in A for now. And if we need to, based on what else is in A, let's think about bumping it down. I don't think we'll bump it up because I have an implicit bias on just how much I love Mystic and Robocop. King Kong is phenomenal too, But I don't know enough about mini Zags So let's leave S for the truly S tier ones that we can kind of all Agree on so bank 12 From not the bees A Nicholas Page Podcast We got Mando Pro, Lady Lock, Mousin Around, Barakora, Preston, start us off Um It's interesting Like I want to be playing Mando in tournaments while I still recognize that I don't think it's a very good game.
    95:37
    I like the fact that getting to 3x feels very attainable because you can qualify your scope pretty quickly. And when you start, like, your first multi-ball, you can just shoot the two side targets to bring in your other X.
    95:56
    And so you can do that with Ice Fighters. Like, it's a great scoring opportunity, especially when you implement the flamethrower. so I recognize it's not a great game but at the same time I'm thrilled to be playing it Lady Luck I think is one of the best EMs for sure in the banks it's kind of been an indisciple for it is the game I'm thinking of right? it is not, hold up what is that? what is that waste? I'm thinking of I don't know what that is Yeah, I don't think this is something else. This is a Macell, I think.
    96:37
    Okay, well, if you're doing all that, I don't like that. Barrett Core is, like, notorious, right? But, like, at least it's really controllable, and I assume it'll be a little bit harder this year. I can't stand mousing, personally, so I think this is kind of, like, it's probably a little bit higher on my list, but I think, like, for me, like, this is, like, middle of the road, like, kind of bank overall. On Ice Spiders with the Flamethrower, are you popping it at the beginning or near the end? I do pop it at the beginning I think there's enough shots that it's still viable I haven't done the math or anything behind it But I don't like to assume that I'm getting the supers with pin-burk ball saves on multi-balls Yeah, Joe Bank 12 Yeah I'm pretty meh on the bank As well I did have a pretty memorable game on Mousin last year With ZMAC I think It was a pretty nutty game It was like 7 million But it shot really well So I just remember that distinctly How is the feed coming around to the left flipper fast like the 82? It was pretty fast. I don't know if it was that fast, but I mean it was definitely hold your flipper up fast, I think. Yeah, I'm kind of in agreement with you guys. I love mousing around just because I think it's, difficulty wise, it kind of hits the sweet spot for me. Barakora was a grind last year, but watching top tier skill level players absolutely own it. It never gets old to me. Mando, I don't think it's one of the stronger moderns. Lady Luck, I don't think I've ever played.
    98:35
    I don't think this is an F. Give me your grades, Joe. I'm comfortable putting in B, but I understand if he doesn't want to put in C tier. I wouldn't be mad if I got that B. I think it's a B for me playing, but a C, like, truly If that makes sense I'm happy to play it, but I don't think it's good Yeah, it's not the worst, I think a C is fair for this We good? Yeah Alright, next one, number 13, over halfway We got ACDC Premium from Steel City Pinball League Volley, Laser War, and Mars, God of War Joe, are you going to be playing $5 volley on this?
    99:22
    Maybe. This bank looks fine, I think. I don't really have a lot of time on Mars God of War. I think I've maybe played it once casually. But I played Laser War that I think was, if I recall correctly, fine. I played it at Delaware Pinball Collective. And then And, you know, Volley obviously is, I think, one of the top tier EMs in this game bank. Yep. Hands down. And then, yeah, ACDC, I believe I played last year. I mean, it was pretty mean, but fair. The tilt was very tight, but, I mean, shots were makeable. Flippers were, I think, plenty strong. What songs are you guys choosing for ACDC? I don't remember the volleyball practice is rough I guess not knowing where the plunge is but hopefully we can find it in Wednesday which one is it the one that highlights the ramps or I think I play the ramps mode but I know those stand up rock and roll train I play yeah Yeah, that's going to be pretty popular.
    100:40
    I followed the crowd on that one, and I never changed the song. Nice. All right, Preston, looking at these four, what are you thinking?
    100:52
    Very strong modern here. I think this is the best EM ever made except for Grand Prix. That's obviously just my opinion, but I think Volley is an incredible game. and I think Mars God of War is not good from what I remember. Yeah, it's like a weird four-flipper game. It's kind of like a shrug is what it is. I do like Laser War. It can be scary, but that is a game that was something I had in my area and I somewhat gravitated toward. I actually do think it's one of the stronger Dead East of that kind of area.
    101:37
    So I'm happy to play that. Overall, I think it's a pretty good bank, and I think it's one of the strongest moderns and one of the strongest EM, or the strongest EM that is in any of the 25. Yeah, I've watched them play this at California Extreme this past weekend for ACDC. It's just a good time to see good players really expose it for how good it is and what you can do with it. I agree with you on Volley. I think Grand Prix is one of the best EMs as well.
    102:13
    Volley is just a phenomenal choice for an EM. You could add Volley to a lot of banks and automatically push them to S-tier for how strong it is. God of War, I don't see it a lot, and Laser War I think is fun. So let's give this a grade. Joe, where are you putting, what's your grade for bank 13?
    102:38
    I'm thinking a strong A on this bank. Preston? Same here. Yeah, I'll agree with you. I think A, just ACDC and Volley alone bump it to high B, and then the other two, we can ignore. We've ignored ZigZag here for group 11. You know, group 9 is a really strong A I guess we could say we ignore Cactus Canyon And then group 6 We're ignoring, what's this one? Blue Chip I think it belongs in A Let's go to number 14 We are at Resnene Esports Sponsored Bank We got Willy Wonka, Surf Champ Indy 500 and Stars Holy crap I see three that I love Preston I'm sure you were going there I couldn't tell Oh wow this is not Starz's EM though So what do you What do you think of Preston on Willy Wonka I think it's like The pop bumper thing is nerfed Which it's supposed to be I believe I actually do think It's like a pretty solid tournament game. It's definitely, like, not the top tier modern I'm looking for, but I don't think it's the weakest either. I always worry about flipper strength with a game like that because typically it's head up steep, and earlier Jersey Jack flippers weren't as good of technology as we've seen now. Yeah, I'm wrong. But I do think the game's pretty strong overall. so I'm kind of middle of the road as like in terms of just the modern Joe what do you think about Willy Wonka?
    104:30
    Somebody used the same copy from last year it played pretty tough it was I was in I did play it in my last round last year and I believe I won with like less than a hundred thousand points like it was crazy against like really good players you know like everyone really struck you know, kind of getting control on the ball. Yeah.
    104:55
    This was, it was such a tough wonka. I think my first ball I had like 500 points. It was insane. I just I don't remember liking this in tournaments. I think it's solely dependent on how, like, many of these but really those flippers like, they can go out very fast and become dead weight. What are your guys' thoughts on Earth Champ. Have you played it a lot?
    105:24
    I played it recently in a mega match play. I think it's I would say pretty good EM compared to the ones we've been seeing.
    105:35
    You know, it's one of those games where you go over the rollovers in the middle of the play field and then there's a saucer in the top right to collect bonus. There's also a spinner in the middle of the play field and then I want to say it's a left orbit shot. if you want to send it back up top.
    105:50
    Kind of in orbit, I guess. It's very tight. Yep, very tight. I remember this was in the free play area, and I loved it. I think this is one that I've been looking for to own. I think when I first started getting into pinball, I was like, dude, I love this one. Because I played the virtual version, and I just really enjoyed it. What about you, Preston?
    106:11
    I think Surf Camp is a strong EM. for as far as EMs go. I'm happy to play this for sure. And then Indy 500, do you guys have any thoughts you want to give? We just watched Zoller and Vigo have a really good match on it.
    106:31
    I'm sure there were many other great matches on it. I think it's a fantastic, fantastic tournament. Anything you guys want to say about that or SCAR? I don't really need to praise Stars more than I already would. It's hands down a top five pin of its era for me. Yeah, so Stars is weird because Stars is now, like, in this solid state, which I think is much worse, and I think it'll be three ball, which I also think is much worse. Yeah, I agree. I actually think it's almost like, I don't want to call it a week early. Like, I think the game's incredible, just to be clear. But in terms of that not being the oldest game in the bank, or the oldest game, I guess, by destination in this bank, like that I don't love. Indy 500, I don't want to face any European ever on the game. But I think it might be the best 90s game ever made, honestly. Like, I love the game. I really do. So I think they basically took scared stiff, and they said, actually, you can't just repeat the rant. like the whole time, we're going to drop the ball over here, and I think that was like an incredible change, and the game works just so well.
    107:48
    It'll be set to one player only. Yeah, they'll probably play one player, which probably makes sense. Yeah.
    107:56
    Yeah. It's such a great game, though. Yeah, Indy 500 is great. I'm curious how fast that ball is going to be screaming around the orbit hit that side lock shot. It's a fun game. I do enjoy playing. I would be happy to draw this bank.
    108:17
    I mean, Stars is very brutal. Notorious is brutal in tournaments, but it's one that thankfully I'm familiar with.
    108:25
    Surf Champ is, like you said, a strong EM, and then Willy Wonka would probably be the scariest game for me, I think.
    108:34
    100%. Very comfortable on it as it is. and knowing last year how it was set up, it was very difficult. My placement, I'll put this in A. What do you guys think?
    108:49
    I would put this in the B category. Preston? I really didn't want to be the decider here. Here's the thing about this bank. I think when it's set up hard, it's a really, really tough bank, honestly, because Indy 500 can also be incredibly difficult, when it's really fast, which I expect this to be. In Stars 3-ball, I think, like, if it was Stars 5-ball, like, I'm excited. In Stars 3-ball, it's brutal. I think I'm closer to B, but it's a very strong B.
    109:22
    And I think, like, in terms of, like, B titles, it's probably an A or even, like, a really strong A. But in terms of, like, how I think it will play at Timber, I think it's B. Yeah. All right. Let's do a B for it. We need more.
    109:38
    I think I completely agree with how you like I could see it on paper. It's just like I know like playing it might be a different experience. Yeah.
    109:48
    After a bad round on this, I would I might drop it. But Wonka, Wonka is supposed to You just got 70k on Starz and now you're moving to Willy Wonka and your first plunge goes into the pop star down the middle. Yeah, I Wonka scares me so much. But, you know, we'll see what happens when we get there in a couple days. By 15, presented by Pittsburgh Pinball Dojo.
    110:16
    Rush Pro, 2001 Genesis and Gorgar. Joe, tell me what you think. I don't know if you guys remember that rush from last year. I do. Let's just hope that the physical alterations are not as extreme. yeah no I think this bank is fine I think I played both the rush and the Gorgar you could not shats I could not shats the lanes I should say I'm glad you like brought that up because I like waiting Gorgar is so hard unless you know how it's set up right yeah so you kind of had to play it I don't know a different way than just shatsing and Genesis I don't remember if it was in last year but I do enjoy playing it and 2001 so don't know yeah that's the four colors and drops there's ink on each side right okay yes yeah that game's fine I think that's fine for a mini flipper game there are worse EMs But, you know, there's obviously better ones, too. So I think this bank is decent, depending on, I don't know, that rush can be very variable. Yeah, it definitely can.
    111:45
    Yeah, I mean, rush is my second favorite, maybe third favorite game in general, I think, of all time. I would encourage them to take the post off the time machine and also bring down the time machine multi-ball to four hits. I think the game with tight swings and open out lanes operates how it's intended to. Like if you just did that on the game, like the game will still happen quickly.
    112:18
    It's a modern that people worry about, But people, like, I think a lot of people are not, like, I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I don't think people are very good at Rocks, like the shop path and stuff like that. I think a lot of people struggle with it.
    112:35
    And I think the game naturally plays hard for people. And so I don't think you need to do as much as you think you need to do with the game, typically.
    112:45
    So that's where I'm at with that. I think Genesis is a good game overall. GoreGar, I actually kind of like playing with a non-chats type GoreGar. I think some of the guard, like lighting pops and stuff is actually really valuable, which you do with the guard targets.
    113:01
    It has the weird spin of 1,000 between bonus 10 and 19 or whatever that is. I don't love that. And 2001 I like as an EM.
    113:13
    This was one of those banks I saw and I'm like, I'm probably higher on this bank than other people are, and that's just full-on bias on my end. Yeah, I love Rush in tournaments now that I've gotten used to it more. I've slowly figured out, okay, you know, it's not as dangerous if you just take this path and this path. I love Genesis. I think it's one of my favorite Gottliebs, and not just because it's got an amazing pass, but I love the – I played it so much at the UK Open. I was like, maybe I should buy Galvin, who I just listed.
    113:48
    Gorgar. Yeah, the mechanic of having a lit spinner only between certain bonus values is kind of intriguing to me. I have no experience that I can remember on 2001. Where are we ranking this one? Preston, you go first.
    114:07
    Personally, I have this as an A, but I can definitely be talked down, Especially because I know how hard this game is How hard this bank truly is I think this is actually one of the Lessest banks I would guess In terms of total time on the bank I do hope The time machine isn't Insanely tough to get I feel it's already hard enough Like what you said earlier Please make it not 50 shots to start the multiballer Joe Yeah I mean I did play I mentioned I played the Rush and the Gorgar last year I mean a little bit of bias too I think because I did win that game of Rush so I felt a little accomplished playing on that copy but I'm not really mad at any games in this bank I would say A is not out of the question but strong B to white A yeah I don't think it's A yet. I can see why, though. If the rush is set up nicely, I would put this in A. But I think I'm going to pick B here. Yeah, again, I don't have to play. So I get to be the, like, yeah, this is a great pick, and they're telling me that, like, seven bills winning on rush. I'm like, that's tough.
    115:34
    We're getting closer and closer. Thank you guys again for hanging out I wanted to talk about this on such short notice. Group 16, Vellum Fermentation, is presenting Avatar, High Deal, Black Rose, and Flight 2000. I'll go first.
    115:51
    Avatar, people are slowly coming around to it. I played this last year. It was insanely tough. Just trying to survive that plunge to get your skill shot and get some points, and then coming out from the pots was nuts. Black Rose I played a few times at District 82 I enjoy it I can see why I like Flight 2000 I know it's not everybody's cup of tea I really like I love that Satisfying spinner When you can figure where it is On that left flipper And get it moving And then High Deal Yes, High Deal is the one game where I prevented Escher from getting a perfect round. I remember it was our first round, and I got first, he got second. But the reason I remember it, too, is because I learned about it at District 82, and I definitely enjoy me some high. So you just bump it up. I mean, preventing Escher getting that.
    116:55
    That's worth points. Automatically. Yeah. I think of the EMs that we've seen, other than the clear stars like Valdi, and some of the other ones. This high deal is up there for me. I actually think of all the pins on this list. Saturn is the weakest link. What is the weakest link here? That's good. Did you mean to do a pun on that? I didn't, but I'm glad I did. Okay.
    117:24
    For me, I don't know. I actually think this is a pretty strong bank. I think I had to play Avatar twice last year, and thankfully I was able to get control of it putting up relatively decent scores so I'm not particularly too scared of the avatar and I'm hoping that's not like a dare to anyone listening for having to play the game I mean it did play very neat still but I found it to be relatively controllable if you just don't miss.
    118:05
    Flight 2000, I do enjoy playing. I rip the spinners, or if I can, rip the spinners all day. It's a good, solid state, I think, relatively speaking.
    118:21
    Black Rose, I am curious how it will be set up. I also haven't played a Black Rose in a long time. I may need some convincing there. And then, yeah, Hydeal. Hydeal was in, I think it was one of the battles last year, and then maybe ended up getting moved in, but I just remember a free play area. So it's fine. It was also, I believe it was also in Papa, right? Yeah. Maybe Papa Classics.
    118:51
    Was it? I don't know. Oh, maybe it was. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah, you're right, you're right. Yeah. If you shot the right orb, it came straight back. Yeah. Like it never went through. Right. Exactly. And let's not forget, as pointed out in the this has the most erotic back glass apparently because this lady in her lady dress for Flight 2000. Preston, your thoughts on the bank?
    119:16
    Yeah, overall, I'd say decent bank. I actually am not a Black Rose fan. I don't like the ball path near the flipper because of the compass or whatever that thing is.
    119:33
    So that's a very personal one to me because there are other people who love Black Rose. I'm just not one. You can't ask for much more on Flight 2000. It's like a one-shot or two-shot game depending on kind of what you're going for. And I'm happy to have that as an early solid state. High Deal I think is one of the strongest just EMs, for sure. I think it's very difficult to light your spinner in general, so I do think that can be overpowered when people get to it, but it's difficult to do, so it is what it is. But for EMs, like, there's always unfair things happening. Aquarius exists.
    120:17
    And Avatars, like, I'm trying to admit, it's, you know, pretty decent modern, in my mind. Like I said, it's like, I would call it like, worse Spider-Man.
    120:29
    So. Yeah, all right. Let's get some grades on this. Joe, what do you think on Group 16? I'm feeling a strong B, if not light A. All right.
    120:46
    Yeah, I'm, like, middle of the road B on this. Yeah. High C, but I think it belongs in the... I think High Deal and Light 2000 actually make like review it a little more but I think a good place to put it Group 17 Zoller's Favorite Modern we've got I'm assuming this is was Group 17 it was The Bride of PPL Women's League so let's take a look at this one Avengers Infinity Castle Aladdin's Castle Data East Star Wars I love Avengers I think people don't think I think people give it a hard time because of the rule set I know some people don't like the shots, the Captain Marvel but I think when you have one that's completely dialed in like anything, almost anything I think Avengers is one of his strongest Strongest Entries I have a little bit of a bias obviously because I own it I really like Aladdin's Castle I saw you playing it at Sleeper City And it's just It's frustrating when you've got so many Right orbit shots And then it doesn't land in the one stupid Roll over lane that you need it to Or it just doesn't go all the way It was a good game, 100% I'm not awesome at that Yeah, I was amazed at how many people played it. I thought some people were really good at that game, so I was pretty impressed by how good, how controllable they made the EM look.
    122:28
    I never liked it being included just because of what you have to do to kind of prevent it from being the one-trick pump. Obviously, I think it's the custom ROM, and it's fun to watch, but I don't know. I don't enjoy it. And big game is great. I think three strong pins here. Preston, bank 17 Yeah, I think there's three strong pins here and then big game exists I am not so strong as I'll say, I don't think it's a good game, just to be clear, but I think the fact that the multiball is worth so much, like I'm totally cool with, like it doesn't even give you almost an option to go for anything else and it's just like, okay, it's the game you turn off your brain and just go for what you're going for. I thought they did a really good job with the Avengers Pro last year with how it was set up from what I saw on stream. Again, like I'm not playing, so it's hard for me to just like say that, but from what I could see and like how the best players were playing it, I thought the game was set up incredibly fair. I know they changed it a little bit before finals, but I thought the finals version of it was very good. Aladdin's Castle I think is a strong EM big game like I don't think the rules are necessarily awful I don't think they're good but I just don't think there's something with the flipper mechs where I don't think aiming on most of them is I don't know consistent I would say like it's weird I just think the game is all over the place in terms of trying to hit that left spinner.
    124:15
    It seems like I can miss by 30 feet on shots that I feel like are good. So I don't like playing it. There's a lot of nostalgia for people with that game, so I never blame anyone who says they like big game. Just not a game for me, personally. Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with the big game hate here.
    124:38
    Not a fanboy. I tried, Eric. You just wait for the spitter and it slows it down. Sorry, Eric. On my desk and I got this. I don't know if you can even see that. It's a big game freaking desk toy. Oh, yeah, there it is.
    124:59
    That's pretty cool. No, I'm not a fan of playing it in competition. Yeah, that's a very astute observation, I think, about just aiming. It just feels so weird. Maybe it's because it's like the two flippers are like, I don't know. It just, it does seem very off.
    125:17
    Star Wars Data East, I think is, yeah, like you said, you're just going for multi-ball because it's the most valuable thing in the game. AIQ Pro, I did play last year. Like you said, I think it played very fair.
    125:31
    And then Aladdin's Castle, I mean, after seeing you guys tear it up at Super City, I'm excited to play it. I haven't really played it very often. Yeah. it was a I played it a first round against Sean Irby and a couple guys yes I really enjoyed my time on it all right I gonna go first Avengers I going to go A on this You guys tell me what you think.
    126:06
    Look at the other banks. Let's see, that's as far as I can zoom. Yeah, I mean, this one's tough for me because like I just I mean I don't like Dead East Star Wars and like I played it so much at D82 so I'm like kind of scarred by the whole thing but like I'm happy to be on this bank I think this is like a B bank of games but like maybe an A bank of like playing like it's the opposite of what I said like a few banks ago so I'm kind of in between probably on there
    126:48
    I'm leaning more B for me, but I think that might just be because I don't think I would really want to be drawn to this. I mean, it wouldn't be the worst.
    126:59
    I just wouldn't, like you said, I wouldn't enjoy playing the games, I think. Yeah, let's put it in there. I feel good with A, actually. Like, loving me. Yeah. Like, I feel like I'm on your side here for this because I don't feel like there's any game in that bank where I just feel like I don't have a chance, you know? There's a lot you can do with those games Three of the four I think I have a strong chance Star Wars I've never been able to get a hold of I mean I really played it at District 82 When everything was happening there So it's just a really good tournament game to me Aladdin's Castle has a strong EM And I understand the frustration on big games with the shots not kind of going where the geometry kind of says it should. But I think there's enough in big game where it's a good equalizer for everybody. I think if Scott was going to be close to an S for me. However, I think let's put it A. If we put it B, we've got a good bell curve. Yes, right. Let's put it in A. It's such a weird spot with this thing because I think in terms of, like, Enjoyability I'm like really low On it but like I feel like Pinbird sets up Like those are the types of games I feel like It sets up like really well so that's That's why I'm like kind of like Higher on it I don't know I'm confused Well it's Getting late don't worry we're getting through We've got seven more We've got group 18 The West Virginia Pinball League we've got John Wick Premium Little Chief and Bobby Orr's power play. Joe, what do you think of this quad right here? This might be close to an S to your bank. Yeah, right?
    128:51
    Just based on what we've seen. Wait, what letter did you just say? S, S. S? Sierra. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'm very comfortable on WIC. I don't think it was in last year, so I'm curious how it's going to be set up, But maybe I'll, you know, have different opinions after playing it. I think Little Chief is a relatively strong EM.
    129:16
    What are the other two games? Transporter and Power Play. Yeah, Transporter I think is a fine solid-state game.
    129:25
    Or was it System 11? Yep. And, I mean, I like God of Yore. I like Power Play. Yeah. Preston? This is an F for me.
    129:40
    The first polarizing. I know. I like that. It's hard to do in front. I'm a power play hater, personally. I think I never enjoyed that game. I don't like the rollover rules of where they're located on the play field. And I think it breaks a lot off the targets, and the targets are worth a lot. I think the saucer can be, like, way too random as well. Transport, to be fair, I haven't played, and I think, like, the game looks cool. That's more of, like, a I don't have experience on it, and I know it's, like, seemingly difficult, so I'm not thrilled to play it. John Wick is one of my least favorite releases by Stern ever, pretty much. and like with new code and everything like you know have fun like you know I've I don't want to learn like new code stuff because I feel like they've like 180'd on the game of like how it plays which is really odd and I know people like the flow of that game I personally am not the biggest fan of the shot layout of that game and I think with it probably being set up steep that shooting the middle ramp on the fly will be close to impossible, and I don't like that. I actually think Lilliputian is one of the weakest EMs as well. I have had to play that game a lot, and it's not a game that I've ever looked forward to personally. So this is very much like they basically took all the games that I have differing opinions from a lot of people on and put it all into one bank. I think modern wise The 180 on John Wick code is just Frustrating I know it's now The meta is like get 10 enemies and get to Ares As far as your Mini boss And obviously still the Yellow mode which I think is Fascination A transporter I did get in my Draw last year I think it's phenomenal Bobby or power plays one of my favorite solid states. I just love the format, the way it's laid out. Very simple and it's just a classic for me. Give or take.
    132:06
    I'm going to go trying to move through. The thing I really don't like about Powerplay, I feel like the slings are all hovering over the flippers.
    132:15
    I don't feel like I have any room for the flippers. Yeah, I can see that. Let's give it a go I'll spare you guys I think this is a high C Maybe Preston Half Joe I was thinking of a different game When I saw Little Chief So I can bump it down But I still would feel pretty happy If I drew this bank So I'm going to give it an A Okay we've got an A C and an F. I'm going to round that up to a B I think, well, if we all played it, we'd probably all do decent, so I'm going to audit. I will leave it here. This may be one that's in sort of disagreement. Just putting it right in the middle is kind of fair.
    133:17
    And, oh boy, oh boy. Pinball profile. You got a winner in my book. Foo Fighters Pro, Banker Ball, High Speed 2, and Flash Gordon. Yeah, I don't have any qualms with this. Maybe Banker Ball. I'm looking at it and trying to remember it. I would say Foo's great. It's one of the better, I think, modern sterns.
    133:43
    In a way, it did play last year. I think it played fine. Flash Gordon also enjoyed playing in competition. great tournament game and um bankable i'm struggling to remember the last time i played it but i know maybe some people have opinions about that game uh it does have mini flippers so there's that uh but it looks i guess okay uh maybe on the weaker side for ems but i'm not strongly opinionated um so bank 19 what grade are we giving it we have um who fighters pro bankable High Speed 2 and Flash Gordon. I think this is an insanely strong bank. Preston, what do you think?
    134:27
    Probably closer to a B, but I know I'm probably low on it in comparison to other people's grants, for sure. What about you, Joe?
    134:38
    I can see B, but it's a strong B, if not low A. Yeah, I think I'm going to bump us up to an A here. Yeah, I think that's totally fair Just because of comparing it to other ones I think we've got a good contender here for an A I know you have some thoughts on Ice Speed too But I think Proof Fighters, Flash Gordon I know I'm in the minority on that game, so no worries Alright, so now we're going to go to Bank 20, just six left We've got Group 20 sponsored by Pinball Expo 25 in Chicago, Illinois. Labyrinth Snow Derby. Wow, I've never seen Snow Derby. Victory and 8-Ball. Shout-out to Conrad for hooking me up with strategies on Victory at InDisc. Joe, what do you think about Group 20?
    135:36
    Group 20. So Labyrinth Was in last year And Did they take it out? I don't believe it They didn't make it Because I think when people would tilt out It would freeze the game So I understand It's been kind of addressed already In code But I mean Labyrinth I think is fine I do enjoy playing it yeah, taken out their software bugs. Yep, those have been fixed. Thanks, Scout. Yeah, I think it's fine. I do enjoy the game.
    136:16
    So you get to see it played at a high level. There were no issues. Snow Derby, I'm not very familiar with.
    136:24
    Looks cool. It's Brickville Hills, if you've played that one. Oh, okay. Okay, yeah. There's that Expo Little Classics one here. I feel like I saw it. Yeah, it's fine, I guess.
    136:40
    Victory we saw at Indisc also in Indisc Classics. I wish I knew the shots better, but it seems very... Is it like checkpoints, right? And then 8-Ball. I mean, I do like 8-Ball. I think it's a fine bank. Saw some really good games of 8-Ball at Sweeper City, right? Pretty sure. Yeah, I feel like I saw that. Yeah, that was pretty cool.
    137:11
    I did scorekeeping for like two hours. The amount of scores with like 25K or lower was a lot. It was definitely not easy. Yeah, this is a bank that in terms of titles, I'm actually a pretty big fan of. I am a huge proponent of victory. So I think the rules on that game are very good. I think the checkpoint feature is, like, just playing hurry-ups the entire game. I like playing fast in general, so, like, being able to just continually play hurry-ups is pretty fun, in my mind.
    137:51
    BM is fine. 8-Ball and its surface, like, 8-Ball and Labrador's surface, like, I'm fans of the game. I just think that this is a bank that, again, is going to be very difficult. It's a very drainy bank. I remember the Labyrinth last year was incredibly difficult.
    138:09
    I almost hope they kind of pull back on that a little bit, because I think Labyrinth is actually a very, very strong tournament game. So, hoping to see that. But overall, I'm a fan of the bank, but at the same time, I think this bank is going to eat up a lot of people. Yeah, this looks like a very tough bank. I think victory, for me, victory and 8-Bow are the clear stars here. I'm going to give this a C just because of my personal distaste for how Labyrinth has played in tournaments for me. I don't know anything about, what was it called, Snow Derby. But victory and 8-Bow I like a lot. I just don't think it's enough of a B for me. Preston, where are you putting this?
    138:59
    In terms of just, like, base value of the games, I'm an A, but probably on, like, playability, a B. Joe?
    139:06
    I like B for this thing. I would not be mad if I drew this one. Yeah, we'll put it in B. I can see why you guys have. We still only have one S tier. I can see what is being dropped to F for people every weekend. We still only have one S tier. Yeah. We only have one S tier still, but we got a lot of As, and a lot of Bs, which I think is pretty fair. So let's continue on. We have five more banks. Group 21, presented by Pinshades and Pinsteps, elevate your game. 007 Pro, World's Fair, The Who's Tommy, and Firepower. Preston, impressions, thoughts?
    139:44
    World's Fair might be one of the worst games ever made. But it's the EM, so it is what it is. Tommy I think is a strong game I've come around on that one a lot Firepower I also like also playing Jason on that like I played a multiball or I played more like a spinner strat on that and got the multiball and still lost the game I had no idea it was like triple counting in lanes and stuff for the right shots yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because his score went up, like, really, really quickly. I'm like, what happened? I do like Firepower as a game. At 007, I've been...
    140:30
    It's one of those games where, like, I go through phases, and right now I've been like, yeah, like, super grindy game, like, not really feeling it. But I think it is a very kinetically satisfactory game that has good tournament rules. so happy to see that as my modern if I'm playing overall I think the bank is really strong World's Fair is just I don't know if they're like yeah these three games are great so like throw that World's Fair into this bank so yeah What do you think Joe?
    141:06
    Yeah I think I have to agree with that I did play the Bond last year I thought I played Super Fair I don't think I played the other two I don't remember if whose time he was in. I think it was.
    141:20
    Yeah, it was a bank I played four times. Oh, okay. You must think of it. World Fair, yeah, I agree. It sucks.
    141:33
    Total Luck Box. And then, yeah, Firepower's fine. Yeah, it was fun to watch on the last episode. That's all we talked about it.
    141:43
    That chat stretch is really interesting. I hope we get some practice timeline because I want to see if it's viable on this copy. Tommy. Tommy's Tommy. It played very well. I don't think it was unfair at all. And I played Bond, too. I thought that was very fair.
    141:59
    Joe, what's your grade on this bank? Where are you putting it here? I like B. I think B is good. I feel like World Fair kind of pulls it down a little bit. What about you, Preston? It's a fine.
    142:16
    Yeah, I'm just not going to punish her for the EM, I guess Even though it is really bad, I just expect the EM to be bad in most cases So I'll say low A, I guess I think I'm going to agree with Joe and put it in the B I don't think it's stronger than some of the A titles we have, A groups So I think it's right here World's Fair is pretty bad And I'm not as high on Tanya As others may be It played okay Maybe because I played it four times Out of ten Groups And I kind of got sick of it So let's leave it at that It's exciting when You give your pity multiball at the end You still have to hit the shot But I don't know I just I don't look forward to it The Sanctum, group 22 Look at this group. Deadpool Pro, Monaco, Roller Games, and Black Hole. Joe, what are your first thoughts looking at this one?
    143:23
    I don't know. I mean, Deadpool is good. I don't think he was in last year, so I'm curious how it's going to be set up.
    143:38
    Assuming Snicked is unhittable or turned off. So I just kind of have to play the game without that. Roller Games, I believe, was in, but I don't think I played it. I maybe played it in the Strikes tournament, I think, and then I played it that one time and then didn't play it again.
    143:59
    I'm not the biggest Black Hole fan. I mean, it is a really cool game. I just don't enjoy playing it.
    144:09
    And then Monaco, I think I did play Monaco last year. I think it was in the Willy Wonka Bank, if I recall correctly. On the back wall, yep. Yeah, or maybe it was the TNA Bank, but I did play it, and it played great.
    144:26
    Preston. Yeah, I agree. Monaco's actually really cool from what I played, and the spinner was absolutely insane on it, I remember. So I'm cool with that game. The rest of the bank leaves a lot to be desired, I would say. I'm not as high on Deadpool as a lot of people are, especially if the SNIC rules are on. I think the Playfield X rules on Deadpool are very weak, I will say, and overpowered.
    145:02
    Especially, like, the more you hit that, the less it becomes viable for other people in your group, technically, Which is just odd to me So if it's off It's a fine modern I would say But if it's on I'm not a fan at all Black Hole and Sorry what was their game? It's Monaco and Roller Games yeah Black Hole and Roller Games yeah I'm a big time hater Of both of those games to be honest I know that people really like Roller Games So I'm sorry But that is not a game that I look forward to playing at all.
    145:43
    Yeah, I, you know, when this bank got revealed in the discords, people were like, wow, this is the bank. But honestly, the strongest, I remember when it got, I think it was in Ray Day's discord, people were loving it. But I got to tell you, the strongest one here is Monaco for me. I had such a good time. Completely agree. And this was No, this wasn't I got this bank twice But man, I love Mesa Monaco Black Hole, I don't know, it's fine Roller Games is fun, I enjoy Roller Games I enjoy Deadpool, but I think the thing with Deadpool Is what is turned on and what is turned off I really hope there's a small ball save Because it can get brutal I think this is for me I'm going to give it a C Preston what do you think? C Joe?
    146:44
    I like C too I was surprised at the love this bank got When it was announced I get the Deadpool But really it's just Monaco for me I know there's Roller Game Roller Game's love out there in chat And you know I get it But it's not one I'm like Anxious to play On this list we've got so many other Stronger titles So Bank 23 Pittsburgh Arcade Collective We got Venom Pro Drop a card F14 and see which Being a Venom owner You can see it right there behind me A little bias I love Venom I understand The Plums about it especially the pro, when the tagline is choose your host, change the game, and you can't do it on the pro. But it's very fast, and I think it's a brutal tournament pin and a good one to add only because of how hard it makes or how much faster it might make the average play time. So I'm glad to see it there just because also I know it more. Drop a card I enjoy I've said that word too many times Drop a card is fine F14 Tomcap is a quintessential tournament pin for me Just like in the vein of Harlem I love the options there It'll be interesting to see what rules are active As far as the right orbit Whether or not it's going to spot a letter And see which is the better version of this layout Over Beatles I get a kick out of watching people blow up Sea Witch. And if I get a lucky enough or good enough game on it, I feel solid about myself. So, Joe, thoughts on Group 23?
    148:50
    Yeah. I don't know if Jabba Card's that good, dude. I think it might be on the lower end of the EMs yeah I don't know I can't remember the last time I played that game but looking at the play field it doesn't look great mini flippers and then only swings on the sides Venom I know it's one of your kind of favorite games but for tournaments I mean I guess it's fine for tournaments I'm personally not a fan. I feel like you need to kind of do the thing and execute it, like, very well in order to have a good score. And if you fuck it up, then. Yeah. There's very little room for error on it. Yeah, it's not good.
    149:43
    And then the other two games, F-14 Tomcat's great. Classic. And then Sea Witch is good, too. good for a solid state in this bank but I'm not the biggest fan of the other two games Preston your face kind of dropped though when you said that Beatles was the worst layout so I thought you might find him on that but I just think Venom has now that I've gotten like a lot more time with it I used to be like the very notorious like Venom hater but I think as a tournament game I think there's a lot of, like, diverting you can do, like, ball-to-ball that's pretty interesting. Obviously, like, you want, like, the perfect stack.
    150:31
    But I think there are some unique, like, strategies you can play based on setup and everything like that. So I actually do think it's a solid modern in terms of, I guess, modern to general. F-14 is actually my least favorite game in this bank. I'm not the biggest fan. I know it's a one-shot game. I've just never been comfortable on it, so it's very much a me thing. I actually think the game's fine, but I don't like playing it. Sea Witch, I think, is a really strong older solid state, though, so I think that's, like, way more controllable than a lot of the games we've seen in that category, so I'm a big fan of that. Strap of Cards is right in the middle for me. So overall, like, the game's fine, and, like, if F-14 is my biggest worry, then so be it. I'll take that. Awesome. So let's give some grades here. Preston, I'll let you go first.
    151:29
    This is like high B to me, I think. Joe? This might just be personal opinion. It would be a C for me, but I can see a B grade being okay. Yeah, I think the inclusion of F-14 and see which make it a B for me. Trying to get – I think you're spot on, Joe. If you don't do the things perfectly on Venom, you're just getting punished. It's so side to side. And there is, you know, six shots to get your little mini – first row on the mini grid complete. And then you're also, you know, are you choosing Eddie to get the two free locks Or are you going with Agent Venom to get the Atta Ball Because you know you're going to get into Multiball It's brutal I'm going to give it a B Let's give it a B I'll let my bias overrule this one But I can see why it's a C Just because the only two really strong titles for me are F-14 and Sea Witch I can see compared to the other ones Why it might be a C Especially looking at like Group 12 With Mousin Around and Barricora being strong versus Mando and Lady Luck. It kind of reminds me of that. All right, two left. Let's get to bank 24.
    152:50
    Dune CE, Centigrade 37, Funhaus and Joker Poker, sponsored by Papa. 22, the lovely interium location.
    153:01
    Joe, looking at this, what do you see? You know, I would say I wish I had played Dune before. And I've never played it, so I think it's pretty cool, I guess, that they've added a new, you know, barrels of fun game here.
    153:21
    But I think the rest of the bank is very strong. You know, Joker Poker, I think, is a great game, has a really good rule set. Funhouse is another kind of classic, you know, classic tournament game layout.
    153:37
    I think I enjoy playing it. Senegal 37, you know, it's got that waterfall on the side. It's fine for an EM, I think.
    153:48
    And then Dune, I mean, I did watch, you know, Carl's last gameplay video from like two weeks ago, just kind of to familiarize myself with it. But I'm going to either make time to find one. I know Vellum Fermentation has one on the, maybe 20, 30 minutes away from the Resonine.
    154:09
    And so hopefully we can get some time in on that, if not the one. Oh, they don't have one. Okay, never mind.
    154:19
    Thanks, Scott. I'm sure there's one on location. Oh, wow. Okay. That's the one, huh? All right. Preston, what are you thinking?
    154:31
    I agree with, like, everything that was said almost. So Funhouse and Joker Poker, I think. I'm very happy to see those. I think Joker Pokers are really, really good. I think Funhouse is pretty good. So, like, very happy if I were to get drawn on that. Centigroup 37 actually I think is one of the best EMs in terms of, like, the 25 that are listed.
    154:55
    I think you can control that game decently well, and you can kind of shat back over from the right flipper and just keep shooting toward, I guess, that waterfall and everything, obviously trying to hit the saucer. so I actually would be totally fine with that being the EM that I have.
    155:16
    I'm always going to have a problem, and again, like I said, I'm a big fan of Labyrinth, so this is no shot at a pair of a fun. I'm always going to have a problem with a game that is very recently released being in high-stakes tournaments like this, so I don't like Dune's inclusion, personally. I think XS should be considered almost sometimes with this kind of thing, like they're just rolling off the line and we don't even know what problems might exist yet so not a fan of that, I think there's a lot of moderns that you can pick to put in its place and I think that would have been fine and Labyrinth could be a star this year honestly with how good that code is now. Yeah, 100% agree. I don't think there's a lot to disagree with there. I think including Dune is a great novelty, but it's too new, and there's very, very little access. I think maybe the thought is not everybody has access, so it's fair for everybody, but what, 100 have gone off the line, so maybe there's a few people that are going to have that inherent advantage, but you could say that I guess about any pin that people haven't played before, but with the newer ones, it's more pronounced.
    156:38
    Preston, what do you think for second to last group? Yeah, I'm going to target this one. Probably a B, just because I think the modern breaks it down a lot. So I think if it was a different modern, it had the upward trajectory of being, even in S, if it was a really good modern. Yeah.
    156:57
    Joe? Yeah, I think I agree. I mean, the three other games are very strong. Yeah. But Dune is such a wild card that it's hard to kind of put in the A tier, not knowing how it's going to perform. I feel like this is a C for me, but I don't think that's fair to it. I think I agree. B is the move for this one. There's our bell curve. That's hilarious. I was going to say, we're doing pretty well.
    157:30
    I'm sure it's a fun pin. This is a world major. Again, I understand the reason For include you got 25 banks And you gotta have moderns But when you're pulling from like AFM and Circus Voltaire In my head Maybe people will disagree pull Medieval Madness Put it in In its place but Let's finish with this last one Color DMD group 25 Iron Man Doodle Bug The lovable lovable Doodle Bug Terminator 2 Stellar Wars Preston I will let you lead this one I think this is maybe it's definitely in the bottom four banks of the 25 I would say so you could probably already guess my grade I think Iron Man is a good game it is a very very difficult game though and so like having that if you're modern is already rough DotaBug is I mean Did you just get scarred?
    158:41
    No, I mean, I just get the novelty, but playing in a tournament is just a whole other thing, and it's miserable, if I'm being honest, in my opinion.
    158:53
    And I've seen a lot of misery just walking through. It hasn't been just me. Like Pinball at the Lab, I remember, a couple years back, I think. I didn't look like anyone was having fun on it. T2 is also just kind of a rough game I don't like the rules on that game I think it's a very bare pin with a bad layout I've always been more of a hater of T2 than of, you know, Republic I'm sorry and if it's still like I talked about last year I'm not going to lie I have good rules at all, like you can't choose the upper lanes, they matter a lot It takes forever to light this finish because it's like the three drops three times.
    159:39
    I just, like, good luck if you get this bank. I'm sorry. I imagine this could be incredibly difficult. So, yeah. This is a tough thing, Joe. What are your thoughts on its difficulty?
    159:54
    Yeah, I'm going to agree. I remember playing this copy of Star Wars last year. A nightmare. Um, the, I mean, not because it was, like, particularly set up difficult, but it just, it is a difficult game, I think. Uh, and maybe it was set up difficult as well. I think, I remember the outlings being very hungry. The way that the outlings are positioned is, like, kind of like, you know, a slope of a triangle just going outwards into the outlands. Yeah. Um, yeah.
    160:26
    Iron Man, obviously, yeah, is very difficult already. Doodle Bug I did play, and someone I think got the 10k doodle going and rolled it.
    160:36
    What? Yeah, it was nutty. I don't think anyone else Smithed 50,000 points. And then, yeah, Terminator, I think I agree too. It's a pretty brutal tournament game. Yeah, I like TP anymore, just to give you an idea of how much I don't like teaching. Yeah. I gotta tell you, I love me some Iron Man, but it's not enough to save this bank. Joe, what are you grading this? I'm putting this in the F tier. If I get this game once, I'll cry. If I get it more than once, that's like... I might ruin my business. I think it's not completely fair to the games in the bank. I think at face value they're slightly better than F, but in terms of tournament setup, F on F.
    161:36
    F it is. I was going to give it a C, but your two Fs will override that. I think Iron Man is strong enough to carry it. I think it's up there with, for me, with quintessential tournament pins as far as a good balance of difficulty versus fairness. I think of Paragon, Harlem, all that stuff. But I can see why you guys gave it a death. This bank would be able to move in my charge if I, like, tried out the games and, like, they played easier than I thought they would. So what I'm going to do now, thank you guys for sticking with me and going through all 25. We're going to read off from bottom to top our rankings. So if you want to, if you're listening to this, thank you for skipping ahead to the end. For our F tiers, we've got Group 3, Group 4, Group 10, and Group 25. That's Transformers, Old Chicago, Lethal Weapon 3, and Incredible Hulk for Group 3. Group 4 is Sopranos, High Hand, Hollywood Heat, Black Knight Group 10 is Ninja Eclipse, Spanish Eyes, Swords of Fury, Dragon Group 25, Iron Man, Doodle Blug, Terminator 2, and Stellar Wars RC tier groups Group 2, Circus Voltaire, King of Diamonds, Roadshow, Super Orbit Group 5, Dungeons and Dragons Pro, Freak Out, Taxi, Mata Hari Group 8, Family Guy, Aquarius, High Speed, Quicksilver Group 12, Mando Pro, Lady Luck Mousin Around, Barakora Group 22, Deadpool Pro, Monaco Roller Games, and Black Hole Going a little higher Our B tier, Star Wars Group 7, Star Wars Pro, Jack in the Box Addams Family Harlem Globetrotters Group 14 Is Willy Wonka, Surf Champ Indy 500 Stars, Group 15 Rush Pro, 2001 Genesis And Gorgar, Group 16 Avatar, High Deal, Black Rose, Flight 2000, Group 18, John Wick Premium, Little Chief, Transporter, Power Play, Group 20, Labyrinth, Snow Derby, Victory, 8-Ball, Group 21, 007 Pro, World Fair, The Who's Tommy, Firepower, Group 23, Venom Pro, Drop a Card, F-14, Tomcat, and Sea Witch, Group 24, Dune CE, Centigrade 37, Funhouse, and Joker Poker. And then we have our Near, excuse me, next to or near perfect A tier Group 6 Spider-Man, Blue Chip, Pinbot, Paragon Group 9, Cactus Canyon Remake, Target Pool, Doctor Who, Alien Poker, Group 11 King Kong Pro, Mini Zag, Robocop And Mystic Group 13, ACDC Premium, Volley Laser War, Mars God of War Group 17, Avengers Infinity Quest Pro Star Wars Aladdin's Castle Big Game Group 19 Foo Fighters Pro, Bank of All, High Speed 2 And Flash Gordon And our 1-8-S tier group Is group number 1 Which consists of Let's give it the big winner It is Attack from Mars, Starpool, Whitewater And Frontier Are there any Banks now that we've gone through this That you would want to move Or are you kind of good with where they're at
    164:58
    I dropped the 1S to an A personally, but I don't understand. It definitely didn't blow me away when I heard it again. I'm like, eh. Are there any of the A's you would move to S?
    165:13
    No. So we have no S. I might agree. I might agree with Preston. I don't know if that – I mean, it is a good bank, but I don't know that it stands above the rest. I don't know. I mean, are you two saying drop it to A? And there's just no S tier banks You can have that It's always possibly a thing You know Alright Every bank does have an EM And it's not like volleys with three perfect games Yeah that's true I'm going to leave it there I think a strong argument could be made to To put it in The I'm expecting that perfect round When he gets here Watch me get four For last place But thank you Thank you all for Listening and watching Sorry for the technical difficulties earlier OBS just kind of quit Preston thank you so much for joining us This was a blast Appreciate your knowledge I'm a big fan of the podcast I thought having a competitive Pinball podcast was Definitely needed in this space So I definitely enjoyed what you guys have done here and was thrilled to be on. So thank you. You're always welcome, Joe. Thank you again. And as far as that's concerned, we'll see everybody at Pinberg. Thank you to everybody helping out, volunteering, scorekeeping, commentating, TDing, and repairs. It's going to be an awesome, awesome weekend. Don't forget the beast after that, NWPC, Papa 22. And as always, play more pinball. Peace, love, and pinball. Peace, love, and pinball, everybody. See you later. Bye.
    167:23
    We'll see you next time.