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Pinball Industry News: January 2020 Re-cap

Pinball News & Pinball Magazine Pincast·podcast_episode·1h 18m·analyzed·Jan 30, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

January 2020 pinball recap: Spooky's free Rick and Morty toppers, Stranger Things EAG debut, Stern investor interview.

Summary

Pinball News and Pinball Magazine editors Jonathan Houston and Martin recap January 2020, highlighting Spooky Pinball's free motorized topper offer for all 750 Rick and Morty buyers, the EAG show in London where Stern exhibited Stranger Things (Pro and Premium models) with early-stage code, and an interview with Stern investor Dave Peterson discussing record 2019 performance and 2020 plans featuring three new cornerstone titles. The episode also covers Stranger Things Premium's projector technology and early fan reactions to the game's layout and music.

Key Claims

  • Spooky Pinball announced all 750 Rick and Morty buyers will receive a free interactive motorized topper with flashes

    high confidence · Jonathan and Martin discussing Rick and Morty announcement at the start of the episode; described as 'very welcome New Year present'

  • Stern's Star Wars topper was priced at $750, making the free Rick and Morty topper a bold statement by comparison

    high confidence · Martin states: 'Star Wars topper was like $750. So that's quite a bold statement to just give a topper away.'

  • Stranger Things was shown at EAG with code version 0.81 dated incorrectly as 8th January 2019 instead of 2020, placing it far down the code update list

    high confidence · Martin details the misdated code release: 'they put it on the website and in the README file as well as being dated as the 8th of January 2019, not 2020'

  • Dave Peterson stated Stern had a record month, quarter, and year in 2019 and expects continued growth in 2020

    high confidence · Dave Peterson in recorded interview: 'We ended December with a record month, a record quarter, and a record year.'

  • Stern plans to bring three cornerstone titles to market in 2020, with Stranger Things as the first

    high confidence · Dave Peterson: 'we'll bring in 2020 we'll bring three new cornerstone titles to the market stranger please uh which is the very first one and then we'll have two others'

  • The Stranger Things Premium model's projector technology allows animated targets on the playfield, functioning as a modern evolution of Pinball 2000

    high confidence · Martin describes projector effects: 'use the projector in order to actually animate targets on the playfield and the entrances of ramps and what have you'

  • George Gomez initially expressed apologies for Stranger Things having a 'fan layout' similar to Attack from Mars, but later seemed to question why players were critical

    medium confidence · Jonathan notes: 'George Gomez...he was sort of apologizing for Stranger Things being a fan layout and that it looks like Attack from Mars' but later 'he was sort of wondering why at that point why people were being critical of it'

Notable Quotes

  • “It's interactive, motorised with flashes, not just some cut-out piece of acrylic that's back or bottom lit.”

    Martin (Pinball News editor) @ ~3:00 — Emphasizes the premium quality of Spooky's free topper offering, highlighting that it's a mechanically sophisticated gift rather than a simple acrylic cutout

  • “We ended December with a record month, a record quarter, and a record year.”

    Dave Peterson (Stern Investor/Manager) @ ~18:00 — Key business performance indicator showing Stern's strong financial trajectory heading into 2020

  • “The number of people that are interested in pinball continues to grow. And what that means is that the overall market is growing at a very healthy pace globally around the world.”

    Dave Peterson @ ~22:00 — Reflects Dave's optimistic view of the broader pinball market and industry growth trajectory

  • “We invested in the community. Yeah, and the thing that made us interested in the company was when we looked at it, we were impressed with how pinball enthusiast collectors, pinball people supported pinball during a very very difficult time which was the Great Recession.”

    Dave Peterson @ ~15:00 — Articulates the investment philosophy behind Stern's 2010 buyout: community loyalty as a hedge against economic downturns

  • “It's almost like a Pinball 2000, but without having the mirror glass, so you actually can see the back part of the playfield. I think it has a big potential.”

    Martin @ ~35:00 — Frames Stern's projector technology as a modernized evolution of classic Pinball 2000 design with added visibility advantages

  • “Stern's version of pinball 2000 which is like 20 years after actual pinball 2000 so it took them 20 years but they finally sort of caught up”

    Jonathan (paraphrasing someone he spoke to) @ ~48:00 — Humorous commentary on Stern's slow adoption of screen/projection technology in pinball machines

  • “I think that mostly has to do with probably the music of the theme I mean it might be very true to Stranger Things as a theme but it's very calm synthesizer 80s sounding music but it's not very exciting”

Entities

Jonathan HoustonpersonMartinpersonDave PetersonpersonGeorge GomezpersonGary SternpersonBrian EddypersonStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Spooky's free motorized topper for Rick and Morty may set expectation for free toppers on future titles, potentially impacting manufacturer revenue streams

    medium · Jonathan: 'you also wonder whether it's going to leave a level of expectation on all future Spooky titles, there will be a free topper added'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Online forum responses to Stranger Things reported as 'not very well received' but attributed to music/theme rather than core design; early code state acknowledged as temporary limitation

    medium · Jonathan: 'I think that mostly has to do with probably the music of the theme...I think that would benefit the game greatly' and 'I think the way the code is going to develop it'll add some more excitement'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Black Knight succeeded as unexpected cornerstone without major IP support (Disney/Lucasfilm/Marvel scale), demonstrating viability of licensed titles without massive marketing campaigns

    high · Dave Peterson: 'Black Knight probably is the one game that falls into the category of surprise' and 'held up as a cornerstone without the benefit of having a big massive title'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: George Gomez initially apologized for Stranger Things 'fan layout' similarity to Attack from Mars but questioned player criticism of this approach when challenged

    medium · Jonathan: 'he was sort of apologizing for Stranger Things being a fan layout...he was sort of wondering why at that point why people were being critical of it'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Stranger Things mentioned as 'streaming title, a Netflix title' without massive Studio/IP marketing support like Star Wars or Star Trek, yet global awareness expected

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.236

0:00
we check out stranger things premium eag show report free toppers for rick and morty buyers hi my name is jonathan houston i'm the editor of pinball magazine and i'm here with martin the editor of pinball news and we're here to look back on the very first month of the year 2020, which is, of course, January. Right, and what an exciting month it has been. Well, actually, it hasn't.
0:36
Mostly no. No, it was a rather quiet month in Pinball, although we did have a, well, just before the month began, Stranger Things was revealed and started chipping immediately, so that's interesting. There were two trade shows where Stern was present and as well with Stranger Things.
1:00
But I think the biggest news came from Spooky Pinball. Well, that is our third headline. So let's jump to that one then straight away and then we'll come back to what's been happening with some of the Stranger Things. Well, just to tease a little bit,
1:21
there was also the EAD show where Stern Pinball had a big presence or the only pinball presence. The only pinball presence, yeah. And I recorded a little interview with Stern Investment Manager or Investor Dave Peterson, who is also in charge of some of the daily operations or at least daily management at Stern. so we have like a 10 to 12 minute interview with him where he's looking back on the year 2019 and he's talking about plans for 2020 and I think we also have George Gomez quickly stopping by so let's not also forget that we are really planning to have our call in guests this time as well we've gone to big efforts to make sure that we're actually going to have Gary on the show this time. I actually instant messaged him last night to make sure that he would be available for this recording and he got back to me and said, yeah, absolutely, he's going to call in during the show. So we've got that to look forward to as well. Hopefully he has some interesting news then. Yeah, I'm sure he will. He always does. So yeah, it's going to be an interesting So it's a slow month, but it still will be an interesting episode. Absolutely, yeah. There's a lot going on. Okay, so let's start things off with Rick and Morty then,

  • On the Stranger Things Pro model at EAG, observers saw few successful Demogorgon toy shots despite many attempts, while the Premium model showed successful shots during most games

    high confidence · Martin: 'I don't think I saw anybody being able to shoot the ball through the Demogorgon toy...While on the premium model, I watched, I think, only two or three games being played and during every game at least somebody was able to shoot the ball through'

  • Stern has no current plans to implement projector technology on other games in development

    medium confidence · Jonathan: 'apparently, what I understood from talking to George Gomez and Gary Stern, they had no plans or no games in development that they were planning on to use a projector as well'

  • Spooky Pinball Fan Club members received mailed packages including colored can cozies, a large poster, keychain, and membership card as part of their 2020 annual membership

    high confidence · Jonathan describes fan club package contents in detail, noting: 'A large poster, a very large poster actually...You get a keychain as well, a Spooky Pinball Fang Club keychain, and a club membership card'

    • Jonathan @ ~44:00 — Identifies a key design weakness in Stranger Things: the subdued soundtrack limiting player excitement despite accurate theme representation

  • “I don't think I saw anybody being able to shoot the ball through the Demogorgon toy. Lots of people were shooting at it. It didn't award almost any points at all, so it was hardly worth it.”

    Martin @ ~12:00 — Documents specific gameplay difficulty on Stranger Things Pro model that contrasts with Premium model performance, suggesting setup/calibration sensitivity

  • “Black Knight probably is the one game that falls into the category of surprise. We've been delighted with the reaction to Stranger Things.”

    Dave Peterson @ ~25:00 — Indicates two successful cornerstone titles that exceeded or matched expectations, showing Stern's ability to predict market demand

  • “Hey everybody This is George Gomez from Stern Pinball and I in London with Jonathan Happy New Year, and hope you like what we're doing.”

    George Gomez (Stern designer) @ ~54:00 — Brief on-air message to listeners, establishing George's presence at EAG and welcoming tone for 2020

    • Spooky Pinball
    company
    Electrocoincompany
    Rick and Mortygame
    Stranger Thingsgame
    Stranger Things Premiumproduct
    EAG International Expoevent
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Black Knightgame
    Elviragame
    Pinball News & Pinball Magazine Pincastorganization
    Attack from Marsgame
    Pinball 2000game
    Spooky Pinball Fan Cluborganization

    medium · Dave Peterson: 'it's a streaming title, a Netflix title. And of course, it's not the kind of title that had a bunch of support in the world from a Disney kind of a release or a Lucasfilm'

  • $

    market_signal: Stern achieved record month, quarter, and year in 2019; expects continued growth in 2020 despite potential future economic slowdown

    high · Dave Peterson: 'We ended December with a record month, a record quarter, and a record year' and 'Our expectation is that there's no reason for that not to continue'

  • ?

    announcement: Pinball Magazine No. 2 reprinted; contains 2013 interview with Dave Peterson discussing investment rationale and early Stern strategy

    high · Jonathan mentions: 'Pimble Magazine No. 2 has been reprinted. Hang on, we'll come back to that a bit later'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stranger Things offered in Pro, Premium (with projector), and LE tiers; Premium projector technology creates significant gameplay difference (successful Demogorgon shots) vs Pro model

    high · Martin observed on Pro: 'I don't think I saw anybody being able to shoot the ball through the Demogorgon toy' vs Premium: 'during every game at least somebody was able to shoot the ball through the Demogorgon toy'

  • ?

    product_concern: Stranger Things demonstrated with incomplete code (v0.81); misdated as 2019 instead of 2020; playfield layout draws unfavorable comparisons to Attack from Mars; music characterized as 'very calm' and 'not very exciting'

    high · Martin: 'it didn't look as if the code had been worked on for that long. It looked like a fairly basic rule set' and Jonathan: 'music...is very calm synthesizer 80s sounding music but it's not very exciting'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern planning three cornerstone titles for 2020 with Stranger Things as first; will supplement with studio models and other titles from back catalog

    high · Dave Peterson: 'we'll bring in 2020 we'll bring three new cornerstone titles to the market stranger please uh which is the very first one and then we'll have two others'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Stern reports no plans to implement projector technology on future games despite acknowledging potential and successfully demonstrating it on Stranger Things

    high · Jonathan: 'what I understood from talking to George Gomez and Gary Stern, they had no plans or no games in development that they were planning on to use a projector as well'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Stern's projector implementation on Stranger Things Premium framed as modern evolution of Pinball 2000 technology circa 20 years later; technology reception will inform future adoption decisions

    medium · Martin: 'It's almost like a Pinball 2000...I think it has a big potential' and discussion that they're waiting to see how projector is received before implementing on other games

    • 2:55
    where Spooky basically surprised everybody in the community, I would say, by announcing that all Rick and Morty buyers, all 750, will get a free motorized topper with their game. Yeah, absolutely. It's interactive, motorised with flashes, not just some cut-out piece of acrylic that's back or bottom lit. So this was a very welcome New Year present for all those 750 lucky buyers of the game. So congratulations to them and a huge kudos to Spooky for pulling that one out of the bag unexpectedly. Right, especially in this day and time and age, if you want to call it, where, well, we discussed it last month, Star Wars topper was like $750.
    3:52
    So that's quite a bold statement to just give a topper away. Yeah, absolutely. And obviously they sold all the games already, so they didn't need to do that in order to drum up sales. That's a totally generous gift from them. We haven't seen the check for it yet. Well, I'm sure that whatever it is, if it's motionless. They could easily charge 200 for it and everybody would still have taken it. Yeah, absolutely. There may still be an option on modding it or upgrading it in some way, but even so,
    4:26
    to get that for nothing is a very welcome New Year present. Right. So that's... And talking of receiving things, in order to buy a Rick and Morty pinball, you had to have signed up to the Spooky Pinball Fan Club. As part of that deal, you also would be getting a number of goodies supplied through the mail, and some of those have been arriving at fan club members' homes now, and they've been showing the package that they've got, which generally seems to be two different coloured can cosies to keep your beer or soft drink cool or at the required temperature. A large poster, a very large poster actually, which is about the Fang Club and Spooky Pinball and the games they've produced so far. You get a keychain as well, a Spooky Pinball Fang Club keychain, and a club membership card. so that's a nice little package of goodies coming through the mail for all those people who have signed up to this Rookie Pinball fan club if you haven't signed up yet you won't be getting that this year if you sign up now you'll be in this year's membership but they won't get their goodies until next year I don't think so it's an annual subscription so those who did sign up will either have got their goodies or we'll be getting them shortly. So congratulations to fan club members. Right, okay. So, yeah, I thought it was quite a bold move by Spooky Pinball. And I haven't seen any responses from other manufacturers to that, but I can imagine that either they would be shaking their heads in disbelief or not approve of such a gesture. But that's just pure speculation on my end. Which show are we talking about? Right.
    6:28
    We're talking about the toppers, aren't we? Sorry? Are we talking about the toppers or the fan club? No, the toppers. Oh, right. Yeah.
    6:36
    Well, that's obviously a big revenue stream for many other, or certainly a big selling point for other pinball manufacturers to obviously make a big thing out of toppers for their games, and Josie Jack Pinball as well do different toppers for different models of theirs as well. And that's a big selling point for getting the collector edition is to get the best, the top of the range topper.
    7:02
    And so the fact that Spooky are then sort of unexpectedly giving it away for free is wonderful news for the buyers. But you also wonder whether it's going to leave a level of expectation on all future Spooky titles, there will be a free topper added.
    7:22
    Yeah, I haven't thought about it like that, but that's a good point. Oh, well. Spooky has at least 18 months before they have to start worrying about that or about... Since, well, they'll be busy building Rick and Morty. And surprisingly, the game has not yet been streamed. on any of the Pimble streaming channels out there.
    7:52
    But that should not take too long, if I may believe what I hear from various people. So we're looking forward to seeing what the Topper looks like and how it interacts with the game, and of course, how the game plays. Yeah, the game's on the line. It's been built. On the Spooky Pinball Facebook page, there's pictures of it on the production line. Yeah, but the game hasn't been shipped yet. I think they're still waiting for a few code updates, and some of the assets still need to be approved. So they are building, but not shipping yet. Okay. Well, that's unusual for us to start with Spooky Pinball. We may have done it last summer, I can't remember, with Rick and Morty. But as we have started with them, let's go back to our show report then, the EHE show, where you flew over. Yes. And I took the Docklands Light Railway to get there. It was a little easier for me to get to the Excel Centre in London, Scotland, where the annual EAG International Expo show, to give it its full name, was being held in halls 1 to 9, halls North 1 to 9. it was about the same size as it was last year I think although as we mentioned earlier there was not a lot of pinball presence other than on the Electrocoin stand Electrocoin are the UK distributors for Stern Pinball and they had now I'm struggling, was it five? five games, yes they had an Iron Maiden Pro Beatles Gold Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro a let me think Deadpool I think wasn't it no it wasn't Deadpool if only somebody had done a report about it no Jurassic Park Pro and Stranger Things Pro obviously Stranger Things was a title that had just been announced a lot of pinball enthusiasts came over to the show to play Stranger Things.
    10:27
    Interestingly, well, first let's add that there also was a premium model of Stranger Things at the show, but that was in an upstairs conference room.
    10:40
    Well, first of all, that's away from all the noise on the show floor, which is a good thing. As the premium model has a projector,
    10:51
    It also allowed the lighting around that room to be less bright than the show floor usually is. But what I also found very interesting,
    11:08
    I've been watching gameplay of Stranger Things for almost two days on the show floor, and I don't think I saw anybody being able to shoot the ball through the Demogorgon toy.
    11:25
    Lots of people were shooting at it. It didn't award almost any points at all, so it was hardly worth it.
    11:32
    But nobody was able to shoot it through. While on the premium model, I watched, I think, only two or three games being played and during every game at least somebody was able to shoot the ball through the Demogorgon toy.
    11:51
    Yes, I think that's true. I think that could well be indicative of the fact that the game is very sensitive to how it is set up and needs to be set up at exactly the right angle and of course as we saw in the premium it needs to be in favourable lighting conditions so to say. You wouldn't want to put it in an incredibly bright lighting situation.
    12:18
    But we also saw when they turned the lights on, the normal office lights on in the conference room where the premium was set up, you could still see all the projector effects quite adequately. Perfect. Good. So it's not, you know, it doesn't have to be in a totally darkened room. In normal lighting conditions, it's fine. but in very bright light it will probably struggle a bit and not be projecting its best appearance shall we say it's a nice effect but it is very carefully to make sure that the game plays and looks its best right so So, yeah, and while speaking of the effect, what the projector adds to the game,
    13:16
    I sense a bit of mixed responses, but having seen the effect in person, I was actually surprised that Stern is not planning to use this technology on future games. because the concept of using the projector in order to actually animate targets on the playfield and the entrances of ramps and what have you, drop targets and the walls of the ramps and so on, I think that it has a very big potential. I mean, it's almost like a Pimble 2000, but without having the mirror glass, so you actually can see the back part of the playfield.
    14:15
    I think it has a big potential. I think that spinner image on the left, which is constantly being animated, even if the spinner isn't spinning, that was a very nice touch. Obviously, they can do that with every element of the play field that's sticking out. So I see lots of potential.
    14:35
    At the same time, I also say that for what we saw on Stranger Things, which still has incomplete code, I'd say the feature is currently underused.
    14:49
    Yes. Of all the games, I think that's probably the game that I would say Stern has brought out with the least complete code, as far as the graphics and probably the rules as well, I think. It was very light. Although, obviously, Brian Eddy has been working on the game for quite a while,
    15:14
    it didn't look as if the code had been worked on for that long. It looked like a fairly basic rule set and a fairly minimal set of animations and sound effects and lighting effects on the game. So there's a long way to go.
    15:30
    And it's worth mentioning also that they just brought out a new, not just earlier this month, earlier in January, there was a code for Stranger Things update, which was version 0.81,
    15:47
    which you might struggle to find, actually, on Stern's website, which is a bit bizarre. It doesn't come up in the list of new code, and that's because they put it on the website and in the README file as well as being dated as the 8th of January 2019, not 2020. so it's pushed way down the bottom of the list of code updates but it definitely is there. If you go to the Stranger Things page then you'll find it directly but if you go to the Code Updates page you won't.
    16:19
    But it does do a lot of bug fixes. Not huge on new features or new modes but there's a lot of stuff in there which you generally expect to be ironed out before the game is shown and it does all that so but only 0.81, so it's a long way to go until it reaches version 1.0, which will be the production complete version. Right.
    16:50
    While seeing the game at the show, I got the impression that the code that was running on the premium model was further along than the code on the pro game, but that could just also be my interpretation.
    17:06
    So, I don't know. Anyway, as I mentioned, we also, or at least I talked to Dave Peterson, who is the head of the investment group that invested in Stern Pinball in 2010. and basically we discussed the year 2019 and the plans for 2020. Now, obviously we recorded this at the show floor, so there is a little bit of noise. I tried to reduce it a bit, but okay. Let's listen to what Dave had to say, okay? So we're here at EAG, Dave Peterson, and basically the main finance guy at CERN. So you started twice. So you got in around 2010 I think? We invested in the company at the end of 2009 and beginning of 2010. Right, and if you want to read all of our days, there's just a reprint of FinBull Max number 2 out, which has an interview with Dave from 2013 where he explained how and why he invested in Stern Pinto. We were doing a little pre-call, but what I found very interesting was that you said that you invested in the community. Yeah, and the thing that made us interested in the company was when we looked at it, we were impressed with how pinball enthusiast collectors, pinball people supported pinball during a very very difficult time which was the Great Recession. And because of that,
    18:56
    that gave us some comfort that the business wasn't going to go away, that there was interest in pinball and that if we could grow the community and create products that were the kind of products that the community would buy and be interested in supporting that in-bar interlock for a very long time.
    19:22
    So we're now in 2020, so basically you had your first decade of investing in people. Right, yeah exactly. I can't believe it's been 10 years, but we really invested twice because we invested in the beginning of 2010 and then we basically more than doubled down in 2013 And the other thing that happened in 2013 was I became more active from a management perspective as part of that investment deal. And we also really looked at the business and looked at what we could do in order to continue to expand Sindal and better serve the community. So that's what led to all of the different models that we have today, how we do different games for different types of buyers, different price points, the reasons that we got into the accessory business and into the merchandise business. We're getting more and more into the aftermarket parts business and all of that stuff will continue. And ultimately what we're trying to do is to better serve the community. Right, okay. I mentioned to you in a little pre-call, we're at the EAD show in London in January 2020. You just told me that you had another record year. We did. We ended December with a record month, a record quarter, and a record year. And it continues a very strong low pattern. Our expectation is that there's no reason for that not to continue.
    21:11
    Of course, everybody is concerned about whether there's an economic slowdown in the future. which there will be coming again. Recessions and economic downturns happen, but that might cause us to slow down our growth rate, but we think we can continue to grow at a reasonable pace over the next several years. What can we expect from here in 2020? Yeah, the cadence of the business, what we call the cadence, is pretty set now. I mean, we uh we'll basically we'll bring in 2020 we'll bring three new cornerstone titles to the market
    21:55
    stranger please uh which is the very first one and then we'll have two others and then we'll supplement that as we as we usually do with either studio models or we'll bring out some other games from the ball. And so we have plans to do that in the future as well. But we're going to basically continue on the course that we've been on for the last several years, which is where the three corners come from. So you'll see the same thing in the next class. Right. So if you're looking back at a year, obviously, you're a finance guy. go by the number. How does that work? How do you review how the game did or how the model did? Yeah, every year when we sit down we do a very extensive operating plan. Gary would joke it's
    23:00
    75 pages long and it is. It's actually got fed in depth. But we look at what we're planning for the year and we basically provide our best estimate of what we think games are likely to do in terms of value. And we're always wrong, as we talked about earlier, we're either wrong because we underestimate it or we overestimate it. It's very rare that we get the actual numbers. But we've been able to continue to grow in part because the number of people that are interested in pinball continues to grow. And what that means is that the overall market is growing at a very healthy pace globally around the world. And that's making the world better for pinball. And so every year inevitably there will be some games that do better than we thought they would do and there will be games that didn't do as well as we thought they would do. But the pattern that we've had for the last several years is that overall we continue to grow at a very very healthy pace. And at the end of the year, like, you had total units combined that you expected to do this many times again. Maybe a key test, or is it really based on a title by title thing, that you're like, okay, this fighter didn't do so well, others did better, but in general, we're still doing better than the year before or the year before that? Yeah, no, that's exactly what we do. I mean, you know, what's nice is that we have a number of games, obviously, prepared 10 years ago when the company would have maybe a couple games in the market. At this point, we have lots of games in the market.
    25:02
    But again, we also have expectations for how they'll be received and what the demand will be for the games. But overall what we're trying to do is to make sure that we hit the overall goal for our convenience revenue because all of that is what we use in order to decide how much we're going to spend. Right. So if we can make sure that we have a break for any price titles, that'd be better than What do you think you expected?
    26:07
    folks know Black Knight. And so we were trying to decide whether to make that a studio game, which is usually a game that's targeted at the pinball world, people who really know pinball, or to make it a cornerstone. We decided to make it a cornerstone because we thought It had enough awareness and we knew we'd get support from the pinball community.
    26:37
    And the game did well. It held up as a cornerstone without the benefit of having a big massive title like Star Wars or Stranger Things or Star Trek or any of those things associated with it. So we were very pleased by that.
    26:58
    But that was a bit of a risk, but we were happy with how that turned out. And then other games that were, I would say that was, Black Knight probably is the one game that falls into the category of surprise.
    27:20
    We've been delighted with the reaction to Stranger Things. Stranger Things is another game, another title that's a bit unusual because it's a streaming title, a Netflix title. And of course, it's not the kind of title that had a bunch of support in the world from a Disney kind of a release or a Lucasfilm or a Marvel kind of release where there's a lot of publicity that supports the title. But again, only the cases are that that game is very well known globally, which is what we are expecting. And the reaction to the game is that we're very pleased with that. Last season you did one premium specific edition and feature-edition game called Elvira. Yes. Any plans for such a game for 2020? So Elvira fits into that category that we call studio games. And studio games complement our former store offering. And the idea there is that it's the kind of game where we know there's interest, or there should be interest, if we do a good job of developing the game and obviously executing against the plan and we make a good game. And so we'll be doing more studios in the future, the same way we've done them in the past. Whether we'll introduce a studio game in 19, depends. I'm sorry, we introduced one in 19. Sorry about that. So, on a totally non-related note, we're here at the EAD, which is a trade show, but you brought the entire family. I did, yes. I came along with my two of my daughters and one of my boyfriends with us. And my wife's here. And because they love London, and so anytime they have an opportunity to come to London, they're going to do it. Although this is the first time for my three kids, if you will. So they're very excited to be here. Alright. So, I mean, you're going to be here today and tomorrow you'll be in town? I will, yeah, I'll be at the show today and tomorrow. And then they have all sorts of, well, we went to Harry Potter yesterday. We went out to the Warner Brothers studios so they could see the making of Harry Potter's, you know, that show, if you will. That was really entertaining. And then we have a bunch of things planned for the remainder of the week. We'll go back on Sunday. and that's it for the interview that i did with dave peterson of stern pinball and um well i don't want to get all excited or you know but the fact that dave peterson is taking his family to warner brothers and and harry potter uh uh studio could that be an indication of maybe something yes, indication they wanted to go and see the Harry Potter tour at Warner Studios but yeah that was a nice little teaser to leave hanging there and I think is there a Harry Potter connection in the offing and well you make your own mind up on that one I know that they were staying there for almost a week so who knows what other business related meetings have been scheduled in the meantime and it's interesting that Dave mentioned that he would be on the show floor on the Tuesday and Wednesday but on the Wednesday I actually didn't see him so maybe his plans changed. Well Stern did have a lot of meetings going on at that show that they had distributor meetings being held up in the conference room where the premium machine was. They were pretty busy, I think, throughout that show. They weren't just there to meet and greet players, although they did spend some time down on the show floor talking to players, explaining all about the games. George Gomez in particular and Gary Stern were down there. Yeah. Quite a bit, I think. But, yeah, it was definitely a working trip for the Stern pinball crew at the EAG show. Yeah, one of the things that really surprised me, and I'm not sure whether I mentioned it, but George Gomez, who we'll hear in a bit as well, he has a short message for our listeners. I caught him a couple of times well caught isn't the right word where he was sort of apologizing for Stranger Things being a fan layout and that it looks like Attack from Mars I mean if it looks like Attack from Mars that's not something to apologize for when I spoke to him briefly in the conference room he was sort of wondering why at that point why people were being critical of it for being a fan layout. So maybe his opinion of it changed a bit when enough people told him that that wasn't a problem.
    33:00
    Because, yeah, I think any two-flipper game is going to be largely a fan layout. What else can you do? What else would you want to do? There's no point putting shots in places that you can't reach with two flippers. Well, unless you put in other mechanisms that can direct the ball in those areas. But still, the funny thing is I found playing Stranger Things, certain shots really reminded me of other games, like the left orbit shot that goes up the ramp, that really feels almost similar as the getaway when the ramp is down and you can lock a ball. same movement there is a shot on the left side of the Demogorgon under the ramp where the ball is held up with a post which clearly reminded me of Revenge for Mars there's other elements of games in there I think the layout of the game is actually good, I would say.
    34:20
    But I've also seen that the response online, on various forums, the game is not received very well, I would say. But I think that mostly has to do with probably the music of the theme I mean it might be very true to Stranger Things as a theme but it's very calm synthesizer 80s sounding music but it's not very exciting and I think that's what's causing people to not be as enthusiastic about the game yet but maybe they can change the music and I think that would benefit the game greatly yeah I think the way the code is going to develop it'll add some more excitement to the gameplay with effects and lighting effects as well it's early code obviously what we saw was anyway although it is interesting to see that the limited edition is actually on the production line now so that game is will be shipping very soon but what version of code it's going to have on it, we don't know. It was fairly, I wouldn't say it was minimal, but it lacked a lot of polish that you would have come to expect from a production game. So hopefully that's coming. And that will, I think also the projector thing adds a lot of excitement to it as well, and can add even more if they really work on the animations, the dynamism of the spinning targets, the drop targets, the ramp animations in particular, which were pretty placeholder when we saw them. And also on the premium, the stand-up targets, which they project onto, which we were just basically counting down, five, four, three, two, one, but not really... In a loop, yeah, there was no interaction with... It wasn't related to the timer or the mode or the number of hits you had to get. It was just a sort of demo mode. almost. Just showing what's capable, what the game is capable of doing what the possibilities are, but they hadn't implemented them at that stage. So I think that added a lot more to it as well.
    36:47
    But it will be interesting to see what will happen with that and it's probably not fair to say but earlier today I spoke to someone who sort of compared it as Stern's version of pinball 2000 which is like 20 years after actual pinball 2000 so it took them 20 years but they finally sort of caught up um i guess you could sort of see it like that although uh pinball 2000 had um was able to cover a bigger range i would say uh than the projector can but still um i i I can see the possibilities with this projector.
    37:40
    My reasoning was, once you've figured out how to use that projector properly, then it would be a pity to only use it on one game.
    37:49
    I agree. And who's to say that they won't use it on more games? Well, apparently, what I understood from talking to George Gomez and Gary Stern, they had no plans or no games in development that they were planning on to use a projector as well.
    38:07
    Well, maybe they're waiting for the technology and the power of the LED illuminating the image on the projector to increase such that... I mean, you talk about the thing called 2000, of course, bear in mind that had a unique cabinet or back box design, which kind of shielded the playfield area where the projector was or the projection was, reflection in this case, a pinball 2000. So it was a lot more controllable as far as the lighting conditions go. And CERN's design doesn't allow for that unless they redesign their back box and cabinet. I don't think they're about to do that just to add a projector to the game. So they're probably going to see how this particular projector effect is received by players and buyers and operators as well, for those who go for the upper models, the premium and the LE.
    39:03
    Right. Oh, well. So I ran into George Gomez a couple of times, actually, at the show. So I asked him to give us a brief message and I know it the end of January but still here George Gomez Hey everybody This is George Gomez from Stern Pinball and I in London with Jonathan Happy New Year, and hope you like what we're doing. Well, we'll see what George and his team are going to be developing and bringing out later this year. but we have high hopes as always and yeah one new thing I have brought out so far this year is some new code for the Jurassic Park game almost at version 1.0, version 0.97.0 which adds quite a lot of new stuff, it does seem that Jurassic Park is getting every new version that comes out adds or adjusts an awful lot of the gameplay and the features and the modes. And this 0.97 is no different.
    40:20
    Lots of tweaks to the rules, some extra rules for various modes, as well as adding in a few bug fixes. But it also introduces, and I have to admit, I don't know the Stern Spike 2 system well enough to know whether this is something which other games have got, but it adds a whole bunch of graphic equalizer adjustments into the setup menus and the configuration menus. for the sound of the game, which allows you to basically do a multiband graphic equalizer on the sound, which seems like a great idea.
    40:57
    And also I think allows you to, whether or not you want to apply any of that stuff to the line out, which people can use to plug into their own hi-fi or amplified system, or of course for streaming as well. So, you know, you might want to tweak the sounds of the game to suit your particular environment. But also, if you're streaming it, then the output from the game can be nice and clean and not adjusted at all for the stream. So that's a new code version 0.97 for Jurassic Park. Okay. And I think that wraps it up for Stern Pinball. I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah, and, well, there's lots of little bits of news that I suggest that were… Expectations. Well, not only that, but one of the other top stories, if I may add, for January was that Pimble Magazine No. 2 has been reprinted. Hang on, we'll come back to that a bit later. Oh, yes, look, right at the moment, my phone is ringing. Can you hear that? Yeah, I can hear that. So who's interrupting you now? I heard my message earlier, and he's calling in right at this particular moment. Okay, so it's been two years in the making, almost literally. And finally, we're going to have Gary Flower on the show. Okay, let's listen to Gary. just as Gary on the display, obviously it's my phone not yours so don't get the music, just as Gary so let's put Gary live, hello Gary hello, hello guys hi Gary, hi Jonathan oh my goodness, Gary Stern, I was expecting a different Gary very interesting how generous of you to call I just called, I wish you a happy 2020, it's good seeing you at the show in London a little earlier and I hope you loved Stranger Things Well, who could not? Well, thank you for calling in so much If you would have known you would have called we would have prepared some questions Oh my goodness Well, what a break I've got to go to a meeting now anyways Bye guys Oh, okay So he's off into a meeting To message the wrong Gary Oh dear I just went to my phone book and found Gary and checked to see if he was free and he was But it was indeed nice to see him at the EAG show and it was very nice of him to actually respond to your requests. Oh, well, thanks, Gary. Sorry it wasn't to give you the build-up that you are owed, but there you go. You never quite know how these podcasts are going to turn out, so next time, or maybe Mr. Flower will call in as well. Right. Stop ruling anything out. Oh, exactly. So, in other news, Pinball Magazine number two has been reprinted and is available in the Pinball Magazine webshop.
    44:08
    Wow. And obviously that issue has been solved out for, I think, over two years now. And so it's available.
    44:18
    The content is... Yeah, give us a quick reminder of all those wonderful people who were covered in that magazine. Well, the cover story is on the career of pinball designer Dennis Nordman. Yeah, apart from them. Greg Ferris chiming in on the games that he did together with Dennis Nordman. And there's also quite a large article on Pinball News. Ah, right, yes. Not sure if you heard of that. That's a British website that's covering all the latest developments in pinball and so on. But anyway, if you're missing Pinball Magazine number two in your collection of issues of Pinball Magazine, then now is your chance to complete your collection. And then hopefully later this year, issue six will also become available once I start working on it. What do you mean start working on it? Well, restart working on it, I should say. Right, that's what I can. Right. So to order Pinball Magazine No. 2, people go to pinball-magazine.com, yes? Yes, exactly. And thank you for the blatant plug, but let's not forget. Well, if I hadn't done it, I'm sure you would.
    45:33
    Let's not forget, and people might not realize that it's out there, but you did a year-end review for 2019, which is up on pinballnews.com, which is quite an interesting read I have to say you really did well you really outdid yourself I'd say on the details that you put in this hearing review I did kind of thank you that's very kind I did kind of go a bit overboard this time because it's one of those things once you start going into it in depth and you start looking at all the stuff that's happened with Stern then you really need to start doing all that for every other company and as you will see if you if you read the the article on pinballnews.com website that we're actually looking at the fortunes of 15 different either current potential or in some in one case past pinball manufacturers to see how their fortunes fared in 2019 and everything they got up to as far as we can report. So, yeah, it became quite lengthy. And I would just add also as a blatant plug, not for Pinball Magazine No. 2, which you can get on the webshop, but on the Pinball News website in that end-of-year review article, 2019, gives you the chance to vote for your favourite game of the year. so voting is well underway and runs through until the 1st of March so if you would care to vote for that just go to pinballnews.com click on the 2019 Year in Pinball article and right at the bottom is a voting form where you can just pick your favourite game of the year and we will present the winning games team or designer or company with the award probably at the Texas show or at the Midwest Gaming Classic if they're not in Texas. Right, which brings me to, yes, we will be at both shows just mentioned, Texas Pinball Festival and the Midwest Gaming Classic. And in case you're attending these shows, please note that we're on both shows doing our popular quiz where you can win fabulous prizes. Yeah, your phone obviously agrees with you. I can hear that in the background. So, yeah, come along to our So You Think You Know Pinball quizzes in Frisco and in Milwaukee. We have a huge selection of wonderful prizes to give away. It's absolutely free to enter. We want to leave after our quiz with no prizes left on the table and lots of people with armfuls of prizes walking away having had a good time. You don't need to know anything about pinball. You can guess.
    48:35
    It helps to know. Then you're all in with a better chance. But the important thing is to have some fun. And it's not confirmed yet, but I think our appearance at the Texas show is probably going to be 6 o'clock on Saturday evening. Which is contrary to previous year where we were the opening seminar on the Friday. but now we are basically the in-between entertainment before the Twippy start. Yeah, with the warm-up act. So along to our prime time slot. Can we still suggest a best warm-up category for the Twippies?
    49:21
    It might be a little bit late to vote for it but we can do an ad hoc one and see how that goes down at the show. Right. Or maybe just gatecrash the awards.
    49:31
    Right. Oh, well, we'll see. And speaking of the Twippies, that sort of links to pinball media, there is more news coming from other pinball manufacturers, but this is an easy bridge, I'd say. There is some news regarding some other podcasts of fellow friends and what have you who are streaming or podcasting.
    49:59
    It appears that they have been combining forces, first announcing that they would be quitting, and then it appears there is the pinball network, as it is called, that will be hosting all these various podcasts in some form or capacity.
    50:23
    As I understand it, it would be sort of a one-stop website address where you can go for all these various podcasts. I'm not sure whether it's a portal or whether you can combine it with that. It seems to be a mix, doesn't it? It's partly a portal linked to other sites or other hosts who are streaming or doing podcasts, but also will have a schedule of either audio and or video where you'll be ready to pick up certain podcasters or vloggers or whatever at certain times of the day according to a schedule. So that's almost like a linear broadcast network, but I'm sure all this stuff will be available on demand as well.
    51:21
    Yes, and, well, I haven't had my invitation yet. You? I'm sure it's in the post. I'm sure we'll be invited to join at any moment. But the Pinball Network does launch on February the 10th, I believe. Yes, they still have time.
    51:42
    And, well, it will be interesting. I think it's partly the same group of people that already at Pinball Expo had a sort of booth for podcasters and so on. So, obviously, it's a group of friends, people that know each other already. So, oh, well, best of luck to them. And we look forward to our invitation.
    52:10
    And, oh, well, moving on. Like I said, there was still some news from various manufacturers. Let's start with Jersey Jack Pinball, who released the manual for Willy Wonka. Yep, version 1.0, which if it was code, you might think it would be the finished product, but it's not. It's still being worked on, and there are sections which are incomplete at the moment, but you can download it all as it is in version 1.0 from the Jersey Jack pinball site right now. printed manuals are also available even though Section D I think still needs some work doing and maybe that will come as an addendum but obviously a lot of work goes into Jersey Jack Pinball manuals and Butch and the others who work on that put in a huge amount of effort so it's great to see that Willy Wonka is now getting a manual that's worthy of the game Right so I think that's probably all the news from Jersey Jack at the moment that we can share.
    53:26
    Yeah, we're not expecting their next game, game number six, to be announced any time soon, but you never quite know.
    53:38
    There's a bit of a crush when it comes to new game announcements around the Texas show in March, so other companies are going to be those who haven't announced they're going to be revealing their next title there are going to have to try and work out whether it would be better for them to try and preempt all that or to give all those announcements at Texas a bit of clear air so they're not sort of overshadowed by everything that's going to be happening with other companies I think that whole February March April time and also the MGC show as well, not to forget, that where Stern had in the past traditionally launched a new game.
    54:22
    That whole February, March, April window is kind of difficult for any other companies to get much publicity from if they wanted to launch their games then. Right, and I happened to talk to Jack Warnieri of Jersey Jack Pinball yesterday, and I got the impression that whenever they are ready to announce game number six basically they want to be ready for production they don't want to be like announce a game and then it will take a couple of more months before it's actually in production no, they want to announce the game and being able to deliver it straight away well that's certainly been Jack's long-term aim, as I think probably true for most other manufacturers as well. And so far only Sterner actually managed to do that, I think, with Stranger Things.
    55:17
    Yes, correct. So, then, okay, moving on to Deep Root Pinball, who are still, well, preparing for their big launch at the Texas Pinball Festival, which is at the end of March. And it appeared that, as you may know, DeepRoot has hired John Poppaduik, who is the owner of Zitware, a company that sold or pre-sold several yet-to-be-designed pinball machines.
    55:54
    And as part of taking on John Poppaduik, Deep Root also offered claimants of Zitware games compensation, either in the form of a financial sum of money or a future gain. And it appeared that Deep Root has invited Zitware customers to the Texas Pinball Festival and including the provision of flights and accommodations.
    56:37
    Yeah, that's very generous. I don't think anybody was expecting that at all. But I think it's for those people who, probably those who didn't take the cash settlement but who are awaiting a deep-root game. That should be Retro-Tronics on the Adventureland, I guess. Yes, they will be able to come to the Texas show and have VIP access to the Deep Root. The Deep Root, I think, will have a separate suite or room which will be limited access, and those customers will be invited to come along to that room. Right. Surprisingly, those customers have not been invited to the Deep Root event in San Antonio. Yes, not specifically. They certainly haven't had an offer of flights and accommodation for that, which takes place about a few days before the Texas show.
    57:42
    So I think, I'm guessing here, or I'm trying to interpret Deep Roots' plans, which is never a good idea, but I think Deep Roots certainly seem to want to make the 25th launch event at their facility in San Antonio a press launch.
    58:02
    And then the Texas show will be the public launch. So that will be much more for people who want to buy the games, whereas the San Antonio event is to answer questions from the press and those who have a huge number of questions to ask Robert and the rest of the team about what they've been doing, how they've been doing it. whereas the Texas show is all about launching the games rather than the company.
    58:32
    That's my interpretation of it anyway. Right. Oh, well. So we'll see. So we're at least expecting Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland to be presented at the Texas show. And who knows what other games we'll have to wait and see. Yeah, Raz is the only one that's been mentioned in any pre-event publicity. on the Deep Group website there is a full schedule for the launch event and that the launch of the company not the launch of any particular game So that takes place on the 25th in san antonio they will be streaming they say portions of that launch event but on a delayed basis i don quite know what the delayed thing is maybe they don't want to be taking questions or inviting comments from online viewers. So it'll be limited to people who are actually there to ask the questions rather than getting tweets and comments from Pinside and other places which they would then be expected to respond to.
    59:40
    So if you're not able to attend the event on the 25th in San Antonio, you will be able to see portions of it streamed. delayed, and of course you and I will be there, and we'll both be providing full reports on what goes down there. Yeah, absolutely. So, and well, to finish off other manufacturers, and no pun intended, by the way,
    60:11
    HomePin, our Australian China-based pinball manufacturer, has shared some new images of the cabinet of their upcoming game China Zombies, but it didn't share any Playfield images yet. I was lucky enough to actually see some video of the game, which I am not allowed to share, so I won't, but I have to say that the Playfield has quite a few mechanisms and I think it's an interesting layout from what I can see with the mechanisms interacting with gameplay. It's still a rather simple game, but it's not it's completely different than the Thunderbirds game that we've seen earlier. I think a lot of people will be pleased about that. Right, but obviously with the Chinese New Year about this time of year that means that basically the factory is closed for a month if not for longer so I don't expect any news from Hongping anytime soon I think they will start building the games once everybody is back from their Chinese New Year's holidays yes which may be extended a bit, I don't know, depending on the situation with the particular coronavirus that's going on down there. But hopefully that's not impacting on anything that's happening with the European or any of their suppliers. Right, and then speaking of that part of the world and tragedies, if you want to call the coronavirus a tragedy, if we move to Australia,
    62:09
    well, we have high-cost people working on Celts. Interestingly, there were actually some flyers for Celts distributed at the EAG Expo in London. I think you got one, I got one, and so that was interesting. But you noticed that while Damien was vlogging daily about the progress on KELTS.
    62:41
    He stopped doing that January 17th. Yeah, I think that was a bit weird because I've been following those updates and he did say he was going to be doing them every single day and now it's almost two weeks at the time of this recording since the last one and it makes me wonder what's happened and there haven't been any updates on the Facebook page I don't think it's been on Instagram either no explanation of why things have stopped so I hope everything's alright with Damien and the development of the game and I haven't been impacted by the fires that have been going on in Australia or any other misfortune so hopefully everything will be back to normal and we'll be getting updates from Agus Pimble about the development of Celts fairly soon the last one he was cutting acrylics and redesigning the speaker the cabinet speaker subwoofer to make sure it didn't prevent the playfield from pivoting up so that was that seems like it's still quite a long way to go before the game is anywhere near production ready but it's interesting to see every step of the way all the development and all the things that... All the hurdles along the way as well, I'd say. Yeah, I would say exactly how hard, we always say making pinball is hard, but it is hard and these are all the steps that people have to go through, especially if you're doing this as effectively like a one-man band and producing the game all by yourself. You have to deal with every single aspect of it and this is a long time before we even got to the point where production and shipping had to become involved. So, yeah, it's a way to go yet, but hopefully Damon, Haggis, and Pimble will be back with their updates fairly soon. Right, okay. Then, I suppose congratulations are in order for ColorDMD, or maybe not, depending on how you look at it, in the sense that they completed, their latest release was NBA Fastbreak, Fastbreak and with that they completed the complete line of Bally Williams Top Matrix games.
    65:05
    Yeah, that's a huge achievement. As you say, congratulations to Randy and all those who have developed the Chris. Yeah, Randy and Chris, of course. And everybody who's worked on the colourisation of those games. It's been a long journey and I'm sure it's not over yet. I'm sure they'll be looking for more titles to do. But yeah, to have got the entire Bally Williams lineup of DMD games covered is a great achievement. Yeah, absolutely. So congrats to them. And I have to say, I really like their product.
    65:44
    And also the display that they have for the replacement color dot matrix displays really add to the game. I'm a big fan of those. Probably should put them in my own games as well at some point.
    66:05
    So, and well, speaking of sort of customization of pinball games, there was an announcement by Classic Playfield Productions that they are now offering a custom reseaming shop, which basically means that if you have, I don't know, let's say an old Dolly Parton game and you want to re-seam that into something else, then they can basically, you provide them with the artwork for the play field and they can print it for you. You provide them with the artwork for the side art and the back glass and so on and they can print that for you. So all you have to do is then either re-seam any software if necessary or add to it. But when it comes to the printing part, they can help out a lot. And that's a service that they have now started to offer. So I thought it was interesting to briefly mention. Yeah. Is that on new playfields or do you supply a playfield and they reprint it? I think you can either choose. For most of the play fields, they are likely to have files in stock, so they can cut a new play field for you if you want that, but you can also send in your own play field, which will then be sent down and then it prints on top of that.
    67:36
    Right, and no minimum numbers. You can just do one-offs. I think this could be like if you want to do a one-off, yes, that's possible. I think we'll be seeing a lot of custom games coming out then using that service and last but not least two code updates which I thought were interesting to mention as well the first coming out being Alien 1.3 beta not officially approved by the Pinball Brothers but they agreed to have it allowed to be distributed. So I haven't seen any gameplay footage or whatever about it, but maybe you know something more about it. As far as I understand it, this version 1.3 beta from Brian Domini, who was obviously involved and led the development of the original game code. It's not a sort of it's not a revolutionary upgrade for the game. It's more of a fixes a few bugs and tweaks a few niggles, things which have been annoying to Brian and maybe some other owners of the game who've asked for those things to be adjusted. So it's a nice to have, but I don't think it's vital, but it's given the way that you can upgrade the software in the game fairly easily.
    69:16
    To have to go back and burn EEPROMs or anything like that, it would make sense to implement it. And obviously give your feedback and thanks to Brian, who's spent all his own time unpaid in order to bring this new version 1.3 out. So thanks to Brian. Right. And the other code update, if you want to call it that, although this goes a little further, is something that I read about yesterday. And that happens to be a completely rewritten update for no-good-govers that includes an LCD instead of a dot matrix speaker panel. you have to get a P-Work set yourself, and then basically you're still using the No Good Gophers playthrough, but code-wise it's a completely different game. Yes, I was reading about it as well earlier this week, and it's from James Cardona, and it's called No Good Gophers 2.0, as is the standard naming convention for the first alternative version of an existing game, like Bride of the Bot 2.0 and others as well. So Nogu Gophers 2.0, it changes the rules and the storyline somewhat. Obviously, it's still based around golfing, but it introduces different characters. there's still one gopher but there's also a bear who wanders onto the golf course as part of the storyline for this game and if I remember correctly he gets hit by a golf ball and thinks he is a gopher so the two of them then kind of team up in order to drive the golfers off the golf course there's a lot of 3D animation on the LCD display which all looks very good. I personally, working in the graphics business, I was really kind of irked by the text and the sort of user interface of it. I think it needs a lot of work in order to make it more legible and more coherent. But that's not to take away at all from the huge amount of work that's gone into developing the game, the modes, there's two different approaches to the game you can work through all the modes or you can work through all the holes all 18 holes in order to get to the wizard mode at the end and I think some of the 3D stuff they've done looks really nice but it's not going to be it's not a free upgrade this is being sold I think the cost is around just short of $1000 for the code and it includes a speaker panel as well, but it doesn't include the P-Rock board. You have to buy that separately from Multimorphic. So this is a P-Rock customization of No Good Gophers. It doesn't include it should say, any of the original code so it's not a license from Planetary Pinball or Williams. This is an entirely new take on the game using the existing playfield and playfield mechanisms so you can imagine the kind of amount of work that has to go into that if you have to recreate or create your own new soundtracks, sound effects, voice calls animations lighting effects, everything for the game has to be built from scratch so it's not surprising that there's a charge involved in upgrading to or implementing version 2.0 but it looks very nice work still to be done but it's a testament to the amount of work that's gone into it just how far James has got with version 2.0 and I think everybody should have a look and check out, see all the work he has been doing well I'm interested, not that I have that game but I'm certainly curious to see what they turn it into Yeah, it's quite something.
    73:52
    And I think it'll get better with more input from reviewers and potential buyers. Right, okay. If I'm not mistaken, we're almost through all the topics. I think we are. Yeah. All the other companies, I think, like American Pinball, Chicago Gaming, Monty Moore pick I think we're all expecting them to be revealing things at the Texas show it's not guaranteed and you and I were talking to Ed Van Der Veen yesterday and he's not entirely sure who's going to be there and showing what, well he knows who's going to be there but he's not sure what they're going to be showing and all this is liable to change up to the last minute as well anything can come in and interrupt a launch and cause it to be delayed for one reason or another. But that certainly is looking to be a big launch pad for a number of companies. Right, so, well, we're looking forward to that. I do have a bit of news which is completely not pinball related, but since I have the platform, why not shamelessly plug... That's right. We can always edit it out later. well okay so here's the thing uh february 14th yes that's valentine's day um as many of you know i dj and i also produce music and um i will be releasing a uh the new single by remix the remix on my unigroove label and that will be available worldwide on all streaming platforms like spotify and what have you. And that song will be called Diamond in the Night. And the reason I got this, people have really been telling me this is probably the best production that I ever put out yet. So I encourage everybody to check it out February 14th or after that on Spotify and other channels. And this is music that you've created, is it? Yes. It's a cover of a song from 1983, but the production is entirely in my hands. I found an American singer who did the vocals.
    76:09
    And, well, things are looking, like I said, we're looking at a release for February 14th, although I also got an offer from a record company who already showed interest to licensing the track for the entire world. I'm not sure whether I want to do that. But for now, let's continue with the idea that it will launch February 14th on my own label. right well don't forget us small people when you're up there giving your acceptance speech to the Grammys next year and give us a shout out that would be very nice I'll make a note of that and I'll put you at the top of the list thank you very much so I guess that wraps it up for January 2020 and we're looking forward to being back with a new episode of the Pinball News and Pimple Magazine podcast at the end of February, obviously looking back at February 2020, and hopefully we will get Gary on the phone then, the right Gary. Not that the other Gary was not the right Gary, but... I'll rescue you from digging yourself into this hole. And, yes, we will make our best endeavours to get Mr. Flower on the show, But bearing in mind that he will be with us definitely in March, won't he? He'll be with us at the Texas show. We know that much. Right. Also at the Midwest Gaming Classic. Right. And in between those two shows, we are traveling together. That is right. And that should be around the recording of a new show. So in theory, we might have a special episode with special guest Gary Flower. Yeah. Actually, you know, perhaps we do it in the car, I don't know, or in the hotel room, or we do it somewhere anyway, on the road, and bring you all the latest from Texas and Deep Root and everything else that's happened in March. But we will be back, as Jonathan said, at the end of February, looking back at all the events from that month. Right. And, well, you can find us on where you found us now, but who knows, we might be on the Bimbo Network.
    78:27
    Stranger things have happened. so alright that's it for me bye bye for now and until next time we'll see you then ok bye bye