Hey, welcome everyone to Today in the Scene by Indie Arcade Wave. I'm Joe, your host. And here on In the Scene, we dive into what's happening in the arcade space from arcade developers, arcade owners and operators, pinball, and just news in the space in general. I've really been digging into the homebrew stuff lately, and I'm really excited to have another guest on. Before we jump into that, if you're looking to add a stern to your collection, I did partner up with Compulsive Pinball. We've got Sterns for you. We've got indie games, we've got ice cold beers, and a whole bunch of other stuff. So, if you're interested in any of that, just email me at indiearchcadewave@gmail.com and we will get that set up for you. Now, we're going to jump into a game that I've been playing at conventions since 2018. Ghost in the Shell, which is an anime that I really enjoy, and I was really excited to see this one. The It was probably the first homebrew I ever saw at MGC, and that was the first year that we brought Collective Battleground and everything. So, this one goes way back for me. I got to play it more at uh Pinball Expo this year. And I've got Ed Owens with me, who's the designer behind the game. Let's bring him in. How you doing, Ed?
I'm doing good. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, thanks for coming on, man. I'm I'm really excited to chat with you about uh your homebrew as well as Pinball Mayhem, which is your YouTube channel. So, let's just let's just jump right into you, Ed. Like, who is Ed? What do you do?
Uh what do I do as far as Yeah, I've been in the hobby for probably about 25 years. started off uh like a lot of us tinkerers where uh I really enjoyed fixing uh pinball. So I I bought a pinball machine. I learned how to fix it. I learned a lot from my first one which was a solid state hot tip. And it was a disaster. It was holes blown in the boards from transistors and overfusing. And uh the bigger the disaster, the more I learned. And I I uh uh was pretty much on an island watching uh some of I don't know if you remember pin repair or clays. He has some videos. I bought everyone I could. I I absorbed as much knowledge and uh bought, sold, traded, fixed things for other people. Once I once I built up my own skills, then that allowed me to start my first rethe pinball machine. I really wanted to do a homebrew at that time, but the skill uh the the resources weren't there. Uh this is right now. I mean, we're in a world where you can draw up a file, send it out, get it cut and steel. You can draw up a circuit board. You can you can Oh, I'm going to have this partially populated or draw it up and have it made. No, we were doing PF boards. So, I mean, if I needed something at that point, it was a PF board. Point wiring with some solder with some solid uh thin wire. And uh pretty much at that point there was not the resources to get the board made or or uh I did not have that knowledge level as well. But I wanted I wanted something that I could call my own. So I ended up picking up on eBay of all places about two hours from me. There was a uh Big Game by Stern. And this is before Big Game was really worth anything. It had uh no back glass, no legs, uh no keys, missing a circuit board, and uh pretty trash playfield, broken plastics, mech uh flipper mechs were all shot. So I I took it home, took it apart, sanded it down, and turned it into Greyhounds to Race Home. And that was um I was still on an island. And what I mean by that is the longer you're in this hobby, you kind of meet other people. you meet friends, you meet people who like to go to tournaments or or or or shows that you run into and like they're they're your crew. And uh at that point, I was just a guy of my own and uh doing some repairs, buying games for people, finding them. And uh with with part of that, I uh uh ended up going on a big mega run where I bought a game for one person, bought a game for myself, and I needed a ramp for that. And that's where I met one of my friends uh Tom. And uh he happened to have a cabin up by me and it was kind of uh I met him at MGC and in um uh at Sheran. He had a booth. He had a lot of parts. I'm like, "Hey, great." Got a second ramp and got it got it fixed for my uh for my game. And ended up talking more, running into him at some of the local festivals and he's like, you know, do you know this other pinball guy in your area? I'm like, who? I'm like, I I don't know. Maybe I talked to him and then ah we're all going to dinner tonight. So I I went out there even though I already ate. Had some French fries and met a couple other pinball guys I didn't know. And uh that's the funny part. We looked at each other like are you from this city? He's like yeah are you from this city? Yeah. Wait a second. We call each other on each other's ads about every six months trying to get a better price and we never bought each anything from each other. So we we kind of interacted being local pinball guys. Uh and then through him I I met some other pinball guys and and that's how really Pinball Mayhem grew. I am not Pinball Mayhem. I am a part uh of Pinball Mayhem where uh me and another friend uh in this group of us uh Jeremy Eggma he he was um occasionally making a video. Hey look, I figured out how to fix this problem. And I was kind of like hey you know I figured out how to fix this problem. We have different styles, different way of video, making videos. I'm more of a shoot it, it looks okay, let's let's throw it out there because I want to get I want to share my experiences. He really likes to get the editing and he's taken some of my videos and made me look uh made me look good. Uh uh where uh we we and me and Jeremy are not just pinball mayhem either. We are the we call each other our co-hosts, but uh the other guys in in in my crew and other friends we know and we say, "Hey, you're you're you're an expert at this at this one thing in the arcade that I'm learning about rather than just telling me on the phone. Can you do a few videos?" And then they do a few videos and they and they send it over to us. And it's uh it's it's great where it's great content where it's just educational to me but to others. And um Mayhem's been going for quite a while now. But, uh, I'm bouncing all around and hopefully this is okay. Uh,
yeah. No, that's that's great. I mean, it's it's it's very similar to a lot of people's journeys, right? I mean, maybe minus the YouTube side of it. Like, you you find a machine. It's an absolute disaster. It's a nightmare, right? That's your first machine. You learn so much from that one machine. You know what to look out for in the future ones. Don't buy it if this is going bad or if you start to notice this, like maybe get a better price on it. And you you learn so much so fast by failing forward because you have to, right? Like if you don't if you don't just try something, you're never gonna fix this machine. And then you do fix it and it's it's super rewarding. I love the idea of you rethe theming a cabinet. I think that's such a good way to go about it. Like I've told so many people that want to make their own indie arcade game, like just find a shell of a cabinet, find a Pac-Man where the screen's bad and there's a little bit of water damage and stuff like that. Like learn first, right? like get your hands dirty, figure it out from there, and then move forward. And I think that's that's so cool that you met such a good community at these trade shows cuz that's that's where I meet so many people. And it's great to see people again at trade shows. Let's talk about Ghost in the Shell. Like the first show you brought it to was MGC 2018, um, which would be the second year because the the one that you mentioned earlier was 2017.
What was it like bringing the game there? And and why did you pick Ghost in the Shell out of out of everything you could have possibly picked?
Uh, two good questions. Uh, I the journey with Ghost in the Shell did start in 2017. Uh, it was the year Aerosmith was released and that's actually my cabinet was at MGC. It was one of the games that everybody played. Ended up having a warranty issue and I bought it from the gentleman that bought that game there and that's where my lower cabinet comes from. So, uh, there's a I a lot of other catalyst things that happened at the 2017 show that really got me going on this, but, uh, you asked the to not diverge too much, the experience of, uh, bringing the game the first time. I did build it. There's two ways to build a game. you can build it in a vacuum and just show up at a show and you're there, which is, and I I was telling a couple people this last weekend, if you want the most attention at the show, that's the way to do it. But you're doing it in a vacuum, you're doing it on your own, it's much like the pinball 2000 story of episode one versus uh Revenge from Mars where it helps. It's a lot of work, especially on one person. And I decided to share my journey and that's where we already had pinball may going when I started. I would do a video every week and it was just hey this is what I got done this week. This is what I got or the first flip and I could share that excitement with the community and uh hopefully other people can learn. So when I brought it to Pinball X or sorry Midwest Gaming Classic in 2018 first time in the new new venue they were just trying to figure it out. Many people remember that year's first in uh MGC. It was the big snow and um it was also uh Kingpin had the kitty ride mania going on and uh I went dark two weeks before. I had worked with some uh worked on the cabinet art at the at the about a month before and I'm like you know wouldn't it be kind of cool just to everyone's seen the game developed to this point uh but to have it make a splash at the show a little bit. So, my big reveal was I wrapped it super tight with a blanket is I ended up in the two weeks before stripped all the the Aerosmith decals off the cabinet and put all my custom c my uh custom decals on which are still holding up today. Uh the game goes from show to show so they get a little road rash. Uh and that was uh I kind of have been working with Dan. I knew Dan a little bit, but I'm like and some of the organizers once again through networking uh where they recognized me and I said, "Hey, look, this game is really special. I think I want it on the end." So, I ended up putting it on the end cap where was on the main aisle right across from all the kitty rides from uh Kingpin. And uh that first year there was a another homebrew gentleman I met and he brought his uh Jeremy he brought his um hot rod game and uh that was right next to mine and that was it. That was all of us for homebrew, I think. I I don't know if I'm forgetting some of it. That was just the two of us. And maybe there was a third one that was a rethe. I didn't bring Greyhounds that year, but I had brought in Greyhounds previous years. So, uh that was kind of it was us right there on the end. And uh that was a it was really kind of cool because it was the first time seeing designers get to see it, seeing because and Midwest Gaming Classic being so close to Chicago does attract Stern and it attracts a lot of designers there. So I actually got about I think 350 plays and for at that point for Midwest Gaming Classic that was a lot that that was a pretty good amount and uh a lot of positive influence. There's a lot of people um a lot of makers, a lot of people involved in in uh the uh industry and the designers and you know they they they took a look at it like hey yeah this shot's kind of hard or or hey you know this is really fun or hey that's a good idea and it was kind of kind of cool to um to be part of that community and be able to get feedback directly from players and I I was by my game most of the time kind of helicoptering not as much expo was actually worse for that for me but it was allowed me to to really get some good positive influence. And um at that point the the playfield was just a leftover plywood from building my house. It was a 7/16 construction grade uh sheeting and uh that same playfield lasted for a few shows. So uh along with that first show um question at expo was just about the same thing. I lobbyed that year. uh Burke, I didn't even know him, but I was like, "Hey, you know, there's a couple of us now. There's like three or four. We want to go, but we want our own space." So, we got in the second room and set up a space. I think there was probably about four of us. Uh I did bring two games. I brought Greyhounds and Ghost in the Shell. There was uh Nightmare Before Christmas. Mark brought his game. Um I think Hot Rod was there. I I can't remember all the games that were there. I have to look back at pictures. That was a few years ago. And uh that was also one of those where me and Mark were saying we had the same experience. You turn your game on at the start of the show. You take one step, you talk, you take one step, talk, you take one step. It's 1:30, 2:00 already. And just time flew at both the shows where it was so great having that positive influence from a not really well-known part of the the um not big part of the community yet. Yeah, I think that's that's interesting that you talk about how how small it all started and and how just a couple of you, you know, had games, three, four, five people to the point of now where I don't even remember how many there were in the booth this year, like 40, 50, like
about 40 apparently there.
It was it was big.
And and don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming to be the founder, a foundation member. I built my game and my experience on the shoulders of giants. So, you had uh uh prior to me some of my inspiration to do it other than doing the custom game and being pretty much heavily influenced and and told by like Scott Danesi, hey, if you want to do it, do it. There's community now. And um uh there was Epic Geek with um I I don't remember his actual name, but that that's a screen name. Uh he had uh uh Doom, and I absolutely love that game. Uh there were some tiki games. There were some other games that were available before that actually um Archer of course is is one of those well-known ones that was at the expo that first year. Uh so Archer uh those were all games that kind of were the the first the foundation uh that that I built on and um and and learned from. And as I was saying when I did my rethe there wasn't there was some challenges and I laid them out. What are my challenges I can't do is the hardware system. I'm stuck to the hardware. Um software learning a learnable software there was not that was not available at that time. Cabinet was a hard challenge and after 2017 I really did made the decision to do it. I'm like these are the three challenges I need to or my main challenges. The rest of it I can figure out on my own and uh that ended up coming together with help of friends and u well new friends and meeting people and networking.
Yeah. I love that you talk about like the hurdles and the couple things that you had to to deal with and figure out to to make this dream come to reality. And I just spoke with Kyle last week about, you know, the couple of things about him him delegating as to, you know, what his his strong points are and what his weaknesses are and bringing an artist in to help him with this and and all and getting the playfield cut and all things like that. It's it's crazy how far just talk just hearing from your experience like what it was like in 2017 to make a homebrew compared to today with um with Marcos having the homebrew kits and having this huge community on a discord and all these people that can talk and share information and you know artists that are working for Stern helping home brewers. Like it's so cool to see this community come together. Um I guess I I kind of want to hear your opinion on that. like what has it been like watching the community grow to this extent and seeing all of these games at Expo? Because if if you talk to anybody really in the space that went to Pinball Expo, like homebrew kind of stole the show. Like it was kind of one of the coolest things there. So tell me what it's been like to watch the space grow so much.
Uh so uh the the I'm going to touch on the second part first with with the home room stealing the show. I've had reservations about bringing my game year after year. Last few years I had a career uh change that uh I haven't changed my game much. Uh so why do I bring it? It's nothing special, nothing new. But then I think that one reason why I think homebrew stole the show is it uh it's the only place you're going to get to play that game. It's is it's a unique game and so if I have someone who's a family, if you love Adam's family, you're going to find one to play. If you like Ghost in the Shell, you like uh Tony Hawk, you better hope that's going to the show to play it. Um so, uh now going back to your other question, how watching the community grow? That's been uh and it has been a close-knit community. Uh, so it's been it's been really fun watching the starting when I started um being very green and then realizing that maybe I know a little bit more than I think I do. I I I know how to work with metal. I know how to weld. I know how to I I have some skills and I have some some basis of woodworking skills, too. I'm not a master carpenter. I'm not a master fabricator, but I I can make stuff. So at that point there was discussions like someone comes up with a hey this playfield looks good how how did you do that and you know it's it's talking about the different glues the different clear coats and now it's to the point where there was nobody uh I mean first five years I was doing this that would uh maybe maybe not that long but there there wasn't anybody publicly saying oh I can just make you a play field just give me the CAD file throw the inserts in throw art on clear it that that concept and I was talking to multiple people this year where there there's people that can do that. That concept of being able to to make your files become a reality. Back then it wasn't as easy. Uh you uh there's a couple people with CNC's that maybe could do work. Uh I know um someone with a CNC that could do half a playfield, then move it, do the other half. Hopefully you you uh did it straight. uh where it would take uh all day to cut a playfield uh that we get it cut, let's glue some stuff. And I called around, I found a cabinet maker uh who's also a pinball guy who cut my playfield that's in there right now. He did it up north. And it was it was that it was really a networking who has a CNC big enough, who has the skills to be able to do it. the shooter lane program to get that shooter lane that that groove that that tapers. There has been a lot of discussion on just making the shooter lane groove and and now once people figure it out, they start sharing their CNC code. Now it's just something you take for granted. So kind of like the the spoon switch uh invention for the pop bumper. We all take it for granted. At one point it wasn't there. And uh uh I I'm not saying I I did this. I was just there observing it and being able to benefit, throw some information out there. And that's where if I if I thought something, hey, this is unique to me. This is something that uh uh I think I figured out that I can share with the community. I make a video. I threw it out there. Like uh you need to make a plastic quickly for your game. You don't need to CNC it. You don't need to draw it up. Just just do it in cardboard. Cut it out. Belt sand it smooth. Drill some holes. You got something for the show. uh how to make ball guides where you don't really not sure how you're do where it's going to end up so you don't can't c it yet. I I did a video on making ball guides and things like that just to I I like to rapid prototype. I like to just get my hands dirty and build and where um you know I I contribute where I can but I I definitely benefited everyone else's contri contributions. Another uh gentleman that really and uh really speaks out is there was a gentleman called Wolf Marsh. He created Space Balls and um he was very active in the community helping out with code, helping out with design ideas and uh uh one of those other people that I really wish I would have gotten a chance to to meet. And same for his game. Not being able to uh play his game until after he tragically uh uh or suddenly passed is uh was special to play his game. And it was one of those things where the community was tight and uh even someone you never met hurt when they're not around anymore.
Yeah. I mean that's that's heavy. And I I love that the community is is that tightly knit that you know everybody still rallies around it. And I I did see Space Balls at the show, so someone's still bringing it there, carrying his legacy along, reminding everybody, you know, what he's contributed to the space and and I love that. I I think that's that's incredible.
His uh his uh I talked to Ernie. Ernie is one who uh brought his game for for him and uh uh it was one of his dreams to always go to Expo with with Space Balls just never worked out for him. And the fact that they were to bring it bring it uh on in his honor and uh hand out moon pies, which was his thing. Yeah, it it got there and I'm I'm glad that it did. Um, let's let's talk about, you know, if someone is interested in making their own homebrew and somebody wants to build their first pinball, say they have a little bit of knowledge, they, you know, they've worked on some games, they picked some stuff, what's some advice that you would give to someone who just wanted to jump in um alongside like buy a buy a homebrew kit from uh from Marcos and and start there? Like what what other advice would you give someone that wants to jump into that? Well, um you got Marco Pinball has the homebrew kit has a lot of random ramps and stuff to help you out. Uh you have uh Trident Pinball. That's Ernie. He makes uh he he provides uh Whitewood Playfields with the Italian lower. And if you're going to get started, it's really nice to have your lower geometry, right? So, he'll make a play field and just the lower third, uh, your inlay, your outlet, your switches, your, uh, apron mounts, your, um, ball shooter guide, all that is in there. Uh, and you can start putting wood on it, put it in a cabinet, and make it flip. Um, I would say consider that it's not a short project. It is a long haul. Is not cheaper than buying a new game. Sometimes it is it is it is a project. So, make sure you have uh uh the constitution to go the long distance. Uh involve your friends. Um even if it's just uh like me, I had my friends Russ and Scott and Jeremy or I said, "Hey, I'm doing this. I'm going to want need advice." So, I I had them come over and play it or flip it or say, you know, "What do you think about this?" And they're like, "I would move that." I'm like, "Well, I can't, but thank you for the advice." or uh or uh uh get opinions on shots or what do you think about that? Uh just just to even be uh cheerleaders uh but also help with you know moving the game and all all those gentlemen have have helped me out where uh uh my flipper bases are all Williams flippers and uh the base plates and everything all came from one of our games. So, if I needed some weird mechanism like, "Hey, did I didn't have one in my game yet, but uh does anybody have a gotly kicking standup target?" You know, I like to try that out. So, that really build uh not just a network or cheerleadering to help you build the game, but having a cheerleading squad or or people behind you to to help pushing you when you do get get struggled. Uh the other thing I can say is um build a team. Uh, on top of that, now I I've done most of what I did myself. I had had some friends help out, outsource a few things and some audio stuff. I gave friend uh link to my copy of Ghost in the Shell Stand Complexes. watched the first few episodes clip a whole bunch of sound clips for me where where uh I had another friend do help me out with all my 3D printing uh modeling and and and so I would have if I would have had more team I would have been farther ahead. So, if you can say, "Hey, you know, you're artistic or you're programming. Do you want to be part of this officially?" And uh and and be able to uh you know, give me 10% of the project that's going to really help you move forward as long as you all have the same vision. Uh one question that you did ask that I did not answer yet was you asked about why Ghost in the Shell and this actually rolls into what you had just asked uh about getting started. Uh so uh while I was getting started with uh with homebrew, I noticed that I was picking up my theme uh there was a homebrew document and on penside for Batman 66 and the guy had gone very far on that homebrew and um was was starting to construct but he did a lot of things virtually and um uh I think he had a cabinet built was working on the playfield. Not sure how far he got, but then the stern Batman 66 came out. You could just tell by the progress in the thread that his heart broke where it's just like, okay, this theme is being done professionally and now I'm I'm u I'm building something that's always going to be compared to the to the final version and or to the stern version. And when I was I was picking out my theme, I I really liked Cowboy Bebop. I like uh Ghost and Shell. I have I have a bunch of sketches for what I would have done for Cowboy Bebop. And uh I was thinking like, you know what, Ghost and Shell is is great. There's a lot of media to pick and Cowboy Bebop is great. Awesome soundtrack. I was going to really do that, but then I thought, uh I want to do something that something wouldn't have been done. And uh I'm not a huge over-the-top anime fan. I like I like a few of the the greatest hits. Um, but Ghost in the Shell really stuck with me. I like the depth, the intelligence in it, and uh, Cowboy Bbop as well has has some really great undertones. Both of them are great series in my my opinion, but I really think that Cowboy Bebop will eventually get made as a as a professional title. And because of that, I did not pick it because I don't want to ever have the situation where I'm twothirds of the way done and then all of a sudden like, hey, guess what? Here's a spooky cowboy bbop. Oh, shoot. Uh so so another piece of advice and source why I picked it is pick something that has media has resources has a fan base but also think it's something that you are really enjoy and love but also be prepared if you pick something that's so popular that it might get done professionally and then then you you might have uh you might have an emotional problem there where it's going to be hard to bring it to the final the final on stages, bring it to the show. If all of a sudden uh uh uh Stern or Jersey Jack or Barrels or something like that comes out with that thing,
I think that's great advice. You know, not a lot of people would would think about that. I mean, that's that's so true that I mean, Cowboy Bebop is a classic. Everybody, you know, loves Cowboy Bebop and it got the live action adaptation by Netflix now. So, it's just going to get bigger and bigger and bigger from there. So, that definitely is an IP that that could get picked up someday. You never know. And, you know, with the rumors that are floating around like anime might be a thing in the future, right? A lot of these companies might be kind of digging into that pool because eventually those people are going to have money to buy pinballs. And it's it's it's an area that they could move into. Um, I think that's that's awesome that that's that's what you chose. It's it's a fantastic anime. It caught my eye immediately when I saw it. Um, and it's it's a really cool theme to to go forward with. Um, I think that's excellent advice to give to give home brewers and and delegate things out the way that they need to be delegated so that they can they can build their machines. And um, I just I want to say thanks Ed for coming on here and kind of chatting about the homebrew section and and what it's grown to, how long you've seen it come from, you know, 2017 to now. Um, I just want you to shout out like social medias and stuff so that people can follow along with your journey as as you continue going and I mean, right, Pinball Mayhem.
Yeah. Uh, our our biggest involvement or biggest way you can follow me is Pinball Mayhem on uh YouTube. Uh, that's that's where where our primary content are. So, occasionally I'll I think I have Pinball Mayhem Jukebox. Uh, I drop some jukebox stuff on TikTok, but it that's like once every month and a half. uh as we uh we're on a few other Facebook. I think we have Pinball Mayhem. That's a lot of our routing. Uh we we have a uh a brewery whereas curus has some games that that's pretty much pinball Mayhem on YouTube is is where you're going to you're going to find us and and be able to follow along. It's been a uh we're starting to kind of ramp up and do more videos now, especially now this winter going to see more and I've been uh doing more jukebox stuff as well uh because uh I am uh with uh Victory Glass uh now which is a restoration parts for juke boxes and so I I'm involved uh I'm working there. That's my career change has taken up a lot of my time and therefore I'm uh exposed to more juke boxes and can provide more repair assistant or repair videos for that and that's really uh exciting. I got a got a few interesting things here.
That's that's great. I mean I love to hear it. I think that's that's awesome that you're going to be putting out more content in YouTube and the Jbox stuff is is cool. I mean I love to see the old ones restored and and in their former glory. For anyone that's still watching, don't forget to uh like, share, and subscribe. It helps us a ton. The wave will continue to grow. We can all ride it together. If you're interested in adding any games to your collection, whether that be a new Stern, an indie game, ice cold beer, anything like that. You can email me at indiearchcadewavegmail.com and we'll get that figured out for you. And again, Ed, thank you so much for coming on and talking about making Ghost in the Shell. And until next time, peace.
Thank you.