Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

SDTM Episode 29: Star Wars Pinball Review with Kaneda

Straight Down the Middle·video·1h 19m·analyzed·Aug 6, 2017
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Star Wars pinball review: fast gameplay cannot overcome mediocre art, confusing rules, and wasted IP potential.

Summary

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast appears as guest on Straight Down the Middle for an in-depth review of Star Wars (Comic Art Premium) by Stern. The discussion centers on widespread disappointment with the game despite the massive Star Wars IP, criticizing mediocre artwork, poor screen utilization, convoluted rule stacking, and lack of cohesive narrative integration. Kaneda emphasizes the game's fast, smooth flow but argues that two years of development time should have yielded higher-quality art and design execution.

Key Claims

  • Star Wars is the biggest theme ever attempted in pinball and more popular than most organized religions with approximately two billion fans

    high confidence · Kaneda discussing Star Wars' cultural significance and franchise scale

  • The game was two years in development but the artwork appears to have been slapped together in just a few weeks

    high confidence · Kaneda criticizing the disconnect between development timeline and final art quality

  • Star Wars playfield artwork is sketching over photographs rather than original hand-drawn concept art, unlike other major licensed properties

    high confidence · Kaneda comparing art approach to how Disney comic book artists and Zen Studios have handled Star Wars IP

  • There is no true wizard mode in Star Wars pinball—only a mini wizard mode after completing victory multiballs and collecting four medals

    high confidence · Waspinator's gameplay walkthrough explaining the medal collection system as prerequisite for wizard mode

  • The game has sixteen main modes and six or seven mini modes with heavy stacking that makes the rule set impenetrable without expert explanation

    high confidence · Waspinator and Kaneda discussing complexity and apron card inadequacy

  • Stern missed major marketing opportunities including Star Wars festival in March, May the 4th, and the 40th anniversary of the original film

    high confidence · Kaneda analyzing missed marketing windows for the game's reveal

  • Disney licensing constraints or Stern cost-cutting resulted in subpar art compared to Star Wars comic books and Zen Studios digital pinball

    medium confidence · Kaneda speculating on causes of art quality, noting he cannot confirm exact Disney constraints

  • The game's narrative is convoluted, combining Ewoks with R2-D2 in opening sequences that don't follow Star Wars story logic or character understanding

    high confidence · Kaneda criticizing rule design and comparing unfavorably to thematic coherence of other licensed games like Lord of the Rings

Notable Quotes

  • “It's Star Wars, right? Star Wars is more popular than most organized religions. I think something like two billion people are Star Wars fans on the planet. It's the biggest theme ever.”

    Kaneda @ ~6:30 — Establishes the exceptional cultural weight Star Wars carries and sets expectations for game quality

  • “We just can't get a great Star Wars pin. It's like the quagmire of pinball. I just don't understand why.”

    Kaneda @ ~7:00 — Core thesis: Star Wars IP repeatedly disappoints in pinball despite its massive potential

  • “The game is really fast. And I was actually playing Dialed In and Star Wars back to back, and it literally made Dialed In feel like it was in slow motion next to Star Wars.”

    Kaneda @ ~17:30 — Acknowledges positive gameplay attribute (speed and flow) while context shows this doesn't redeem other flaws

  • “It plays like a $2,000 toy. It costs 10 times as much.”

    Kaneda @ ~3:45 — Encapsulates frustration with value proposition and quality-to-price ratio

  • “You have to blow this machine away to get to the wizard mode. Every single mode. Plus you have to complete victory multiball. You have to have four medals.”

    Waspinator @ ~36:00 — Reveals the extreme difficulty threshold for reaching true end-game content

  • “I think part of it was probably cost-cutting. I think the disappointing thing for everybody was we were told this game was two years in the making, which is a long time to develop a game. And it looks like the art was sort of slapped together in just a few weeks.”

    Kaneda @ ~15:00 — Direct criticism of resource allocation and execution quality despite extended development time

  • “Pinball machines are works of art, and I think the games should be as exciting to look at when they're off as they are when they're on.”

    Kaneda @ ~44:00 — States design philosophy emphasizing holistic aesthetic importance in pinball

Entities

KanedapersonZach SharpepersonGregpersonWaspinatorpersonRichie KnoxvillepersonJim SullivanpersonCrazy Alex Levyperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Two-year development timeline not reflected in final product quality; art appears rushed despite extended development; suggests possible resource allocation mismanagement or late-stage changes

    high · Kaneda: 'we were told this game was two years in the making...And it looks like the art was sort of slapped together in just a few weeks' and 'I don't see where all that development time went'

  • ?

    community_signal: Expert player (Crazy Alex Levy) required to explain rule set to players; apron card insufficient for rule accessibility; indicates game designed for experienced players but lacks teaching mechanisms

    high · Kaneda: 'Crazy Alex Levy can't be everywhere in America when people play this game' regarding need for tutorial; Waspinator and others note apron card inadequacy for complex ruleset

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Kaneda's measured B-grade for art suggests some acceptance of constraints and execution, but overall review tone remains highly critical of design choices and missed opportunities

    medium · Kaneda rates art package as 'B' (higher than expected) due to back glass quality, but qualifies with extensive criticism of other art elements and design philosophy disagreements

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Star Wars pinball flow/speed ranks among fastest modern games; gameplay smoothness acknowledged as standout positive despite other criticisms

    high · Kaneda playing Dialed In vs. Star Wars: 'it literally made Dialed In feel like it was in slow motion next to Star Wars'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Rule design fails to create coherent Star Wars narrative; opening mode combinations (Ewoks with R2-D2) lack thematic logic; convoluted stacking makes game incomprehensible to casual players without expert guidance

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.239

0:00
The wait is over. A revolution in LED lighting for your pinball is finally here. Fully customizable, full spectrum lighting from Penn Stadium Lights. Order yours now at PennStadium.com.
0:25
Okay, you ready? What's happening, guys? This is Zach and Greg, and before we start this most beautiful review that we're going to do in Star Wars, let's raffle off these t-shirts for the people who bought our t-shirts, our SDTM t-shirts. Extra shirt with a shirt. There are still some available. Get a hold of us. We've got regular logo t-shirts as well as our monster squid octopus t-shirt. But for those of you who ordered early, we're getting ready to ship those, right? Yep, yep, yep. So we are going to, let's first roll who's going to be the winner of the Jersey Jack t-shirt. Go ahead.
1:06
Who do we got? We got Brandon Furman. Brandon Furman, come on down. You are the winner of a Jersey Jack t-shirt. Thank you, sir. Extra large. Hopefully it fits. Yes, thank you for the pre-order. Now we've got a couple of American Pinball t-shirts. Who's going to win those, Greg? These will be shipped with your real t-shirts. We have Jeff Patterson. Jeff Patterson, come on down, pin 2D, and check out This Week in Pinball. Very much so. Hey, yeah, that's a good one. Lucky, lucky bastard. A free plug there, too. And the other American Pinball t-shirt goes to Charles Voigt. Charles Voigt, thanks, man, for ordering a SDTM t-shirt. And for those that didn't win, thank you for the pre-orders. You guys were very, very awesome. They're at the print.
1:58

  • Code was done by Jim Sullivan, layout by Richie Knoxville, but the game's mechanical design lacks standout features

    high confidence · Hosts and Kaneda discussing development credits and mechanical implementation

  • The right drain on Star Wars has no kickback simulation despite other modern games implementing this feature

    high confidence · Waspinator's gameplay walkthrough noting the absence of kickback on right drain

    • “I don't see blue as the color of the Star Wars universe.”

    Kaneda @ ~45:30 — Specific criticism of color palette choices on the machine

  • “If I'm spending $9,000, give me a damn back glass. Like, stop doing that shit. That's ridiculous.”

    Kaneda @ ~47:00 — Criticizes cost-cutting measure of using LCD back glass instead of true back glass art

  • “Crazy Alex Levy can't be everywhere in America when people play this game.”

    Kaneda @ ~23:00 — Highlights the problem that rule complexity requires expert interpretation for casual players

    • Star Wars (Comic Art Premium)
    game
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Straight Down the Middle Pinball Showorganization
    Kaneda's Pinball Podcastorganization
    Dialed Ingame
    Lord of the Ringsgame
    Ghostbustersgame
    The Hobbit (Standard Edition)game
    Game of Thrones (Stern AC/DC (Pro Vault Edition))game
    Jack Barevent
    Zen Studioscompany
    Disneycompany
    Pin Stadium Lightscompany
    May the 4thevent
    Star Wars Festivalevent
    X-Mengame

    high · Kaneda: 'when I begin the journey, I should kind of know where that journey begins...it's like, oh, wow, the first thing I'm doing in Star Wars is combining Ewoks with like finding R2-D2. It's like two things that don't go together'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Emphasis on holistic aesthetic importance; pinball machines should be visually exciting when off as well as when on; art should be original concept work, not photographic sketching

    high · Kaneda: 'pinball machines are works of art' and criticism that Star Wars art is 'basically like sketching over a photograph' rather than 'original concepted piece'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Unclear extent of Disney licensing constraints on Stern; speculation that cost-cutting may be masked by licensing excuse; other Star Wars media (comics, Zen Studios) demonstrates superior artistic interpretation available

    medium · Kaneda: 'I don't know what Disney said to them...all I can say is I've seen other people do it much better' and comparison to comic books and digital platform art quality

  • $

    market_signal: Stern missed three major Star Wars marketing windows: March Star Wars Festival, May 4th celebration, and 40th anniversary of original film in late May

    high · Kaneda: 'they really missed the two big dates to hit to be part of sort of the country's Star Wars celebration' and detailed critique of missed May 4th and anniversary timing

  • $

    market_signal: $13,000 price point (LE) perceived as excessive given gameplay/design quality relative to cost; value proposition criticized as poor

    high · Kaneda: 'It plays like a $2,000 toy. It costs 10 times as much' and reference to $9,000 as baseline for game cost with expectation of back glass inclusion

  • ?

    product_concern: Mechanical design criticized as collection of uninspired elements; toys appear cheap (TIE fighter on spring); bumpers lacking depth or creative sculpting compared to other licensed games; artwork on cabinet tells disjointed stories across different sides

    high · Kaneda: 'the TIE fighter on the spring that I think looks really cheap' and criticism of flat Lando face on bumper 'with no depth, nothing' vs. Hobbit barrel examples

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community disappointment with Star Wars pinball despite enormous IP prestige; recurring pattern of Star Wars pinball failures described as 'quagmire'

    high · Kaneda: 'We just can't get a great Star Wars pin. It's like the quagmire of pinball' and references to previous Star Wars pinball disappointments

  • ?

    technology_signal: Screen implementation underutilized despite Spike 3 capabilities; video mode not coded at time of review; LCD back glass used instead of traditional back glass art

    high · Waspinator notes 'video mode is going to be when you spot R, but it's not in there. It's not coded quite yet'; Kaneda criticizes LCD vs. traditional back glass choice

    • Little again You had a fling with a fling shot You're rolling out the alley again Hey, what's happening, guys? This is Zach, and this is Greg from straight down the middle of Pinball Show. And you guys see somebody on the screen right now, don't you? Yeah, that's our buddy Chris, also known as Kaneda. What's happening, Chris? Hey, guys, how's it going? Happy Friday. So, first off, we want to thank Kaneda for coming on because it's taken time out of his day, and we've asked a lot from him to coordinate all of this. It's early morning, lots of coffee. Right. You know, Kenan has already been to the damn gym, man.
    2:38
    I'm trying to get the pinball community in shape one day at a time. That's right. I've had Pepsi and you're drinking coffee and he's out here pumping iron. So this week we're going to review Star Wars by Stern. Yes. You guys pumped up for that? Yeah. I've got some thoughts on the game That's right So for those of you Most of you guys know who Kaneda is He's a I would call you a Pinball celebrity If you will Maybe like a polarizing Sort of politician in the world of pinball Something like that I'll take that too So for those of you who don't know Kaneda We want you to check out his podcast it's like my favorite podcast there's upcoming news he gives interviews there's just a lot of stuff that Kaneda does on his podcast it's probably if not the one of the most popular podcasts and for a good reason most informative that's where I get a lot if not most of my news and he just gives really good takes on the industry without fears of pissing off anybody he doesn't care he wants to give a good view of the industry and he kind of works for the hobbyists and the collectors out there so for that chris we do appreciate that i i thank you for that introduction um i'm humbled by it and it's it's enjoyable i love giving weekly updates on what's going on especially to the new inbox collectors out there because they're all kind of crazy right i mean we're buying nine thousand dollar toys so um it's it's fun to do i i don't know i don't know about you but the one behind you doesn't look like a $9,000 toy, buddy. It plays like a $2,000 toy. It costs 10 times as much. It's still broken. I'm trying to get it fixed. One day soon. It's going to get fixed the day after I die. That's my deal.
    4:36
    That's right. All right. So first off, what we wanted to do is we wanted to talk to Kaneda about his experience with Star Wars coming out, unveiling, because I know, Chris, it's really a theme, like many, It's a huge theme for everybody, but tell us a little bit about the Star Wars theme in general or your perception of it or your interpretation of it. Well, I mean, it's Star Wars, right? Star Wars is more popular than most organized religions. I think something like two billion people are Star Wars fans on the planet. It's the biggest theme ever. You know, I hear people debating, is Lord of the Rings bigger than Star Wars? Star Wars is by far the biggest theme that's ever been attempted with pinball. And for some reason, the biggest theme ever, and I love Star Wars. I'm the biggest Star Wars fan. We just can't get a great Star Wars pin. It's like the quagmire of pinball. I just don't understand why. With that subject matter, it's such a good theme, right? And we all grew up with the movies. I don't think there's any trilogy out there where we're so emotionally attached to it. And the iconic scenes from that movie, people can recall the lines 30, 40 years later. So I was super excited when I heard Star Wars was coming out. I think everybody was. So I'm excited to talk about our thoughts on it and our expectations for that pin. Well, you would think it would be easier because of that. Because like you said, there's so many scenes that are iconic. You would think that source material and everything to pull from would be so much easier and that it wouldn't be hard to make a good pin. But everybody struggles with it. Well, I guess the challenge is if there's three movies, let's say roughly six, seven hours of scenes, I think the challenge is like what do you put in and what do you leave out, right? And I think when we look at the game today, it's like, well, they just left everything out. So we'll talk more about that. But I definitely think there's so many scenes there that could be incorporated really nicely in a pinball machine. Yeah, I think so. I think it's got to easily be the number one pinball theme ever or ever will be, I think. It's just theme in general. I mean, what other franchise would Disney buy for $4 billion? That's exactly right. You know, My Little Pony for that. Well, I think that's the difference between Star Wars. I think Star Wars is more lasting than Lord of the Rings. Lord of the Rings has a big following, and it's a great franchise. But I think Star Wars has more staying power. It's stood the test of time. Yeah, already. I think it's going to continue to. Oh, yeah. And look at right now, right? The expanded universe of Star Wars. We can get prequels. We can get new films. Lord of the Rings is over. I mean, it's done. There's nothing left to tell in that story. And then when they tried to do the prequel, they tried to, like, extend it. And look how bad it turned out. So, you know, Star Wars, we're in a whole new era of Star Wars hype, right? Young kids love it. Adults love it. I've never seen a property transcend so many generations. so that's why it's so important for the pinball to be great yeah we're tired of we're tired of people half-assing this theme this thing deserves this thing deserves everything yeah and we just continually come keep coming up short on it so kaneda what were your first impressions so when the release came out uh you probably know about it a little bit beforehand but when you first saw those pictures or got that inside info on the layout, Richie doing it, the code being done by Sullivan. What were your first impressions on how it was released, number one, the marketing behind it, because I know you're a marketing guy, and just the overall look of the art and the layout. What was your thoughts? Well, I know I've shared these opinions a lot, but I never get tired of sharing them. So I think first and foremost, I think everybody was kind of just tired of waiting to see it, Right. I mean, from a marketing standpoint, they really missed the two big dates to hit to be part of sort of the country's Star Wars celebration. So there's the Star Wars festival that takes place every year that they missed. And we know Stern had a booth. So they were planning to show it there. And that was in March sometime. And then May 4th. Right. May the 4th be with you. I think we all were waiting for some Star Wars to be shown then. and we got nothing. And then the 40th anniversary of the film was in the end of May, and they missed that as well. So I think by the time we saw it, there was a little bit of fatigue in terms of our expectations were being pulled all over the place. When we finally saw it, though, you get one chance to make a first impression of your product. And remember we got it in this, like, it was like a video that came from Disney about... Like in a video, yeah. Yeah, it was like this weird like talk show sort of thing for eight minutes where they just showed some clips of the game. And so the first images we got were blurry screen grabs from YouTube video, which doesn't make any sense to me because if you're Stern, why don't you just release the high-res images at the same time as that video, right? So we all had to like squint our eyes and look at it for the first time.
    9:55
    Look, like everybody else, I was underwhelmed by the art. We knew there were going to be restrictions and Disney was going to be tough to work with.
    10:05
    But, and this is a big like but, why is it that wherever I see Star Wars art, whether it's comic books or Zen pinball, it's amazing. And then the Stern version of the art layout just really looks sort of mediocre at best. So that brings up a good point. Do you think they were really stymied or handicapped by Disney itself? Because we see so much Star Wars crap that is interpreted in so many different ways, whether it be lunchboxes or kids or how Family Guy did a spoof on them. They had to allow that. So do you think they were really handicapped, or do you think they were just trying to be efficient and true to the brand? Do you think that's a Stern thing, a Disney thing? I know it's both. but you think they were as handicapped as much as they're saying or alluding to all we can do is speculate right because i i don't know i don't know what disney said to them i don't know what the deal was i don't know what the contract was but all i can say is i've seen other people do it much better and if i were to make a guess i would guess that stern didn't want to spend the money to go get one of these amazing artists and let – because if you go to Disney and say, look, this guy did your comic books. He's amazing. Can he draw our play field for us from the ground up? Because pinball deserves to be drawn from the ground up versus slapping pre-drawn stuff onto the play field. Because if you look at the art on the machine, it's existing. They just drew over photography. They took photographs and they hand-drew over them. It's basically like sketching over a photograph. That's not an original concepted piece of Disney or Star Wars hand-drawn artwork. So I think part of it was probably cost-cutting. I think the disappointing thing for everybody was we were told this game was two years in the making, which is a long time to develop a game. And it looks like the art was sort of slapped together in just a few weeks. That's right. And as much as we'll talk about code here in a minute, but as much as he put in that code, I don't doubt that damn thing. He was probably painstakingly working over, I think, to a deficit, unfortunately. But, yeah, I don't see where all that development time went. So what were your first impressions of the gameplay? You hop up to this machine, you put a handful of games on it, and we're not rating quite yet, but what were your first thoughts when you started playing it? I've played it a bunch of times at Jack Bar in Brooklyn, New York, and it's a richy pin. I mean, it flows nicely. It's fast. The game is really fast. And I was actually playing Dialed In and Star Wars Pro back to back, and it literally made Dialed In feel like it was in slow motion next to Star Wars Pro. So if you enjoy speed, if you enjoy flow, you know, I think the game has like a lot of that going for it. obviously by the time I got up to the machine, I'd already been disappointed by the art, disappointed by the toys. So it's like, oh, there's the TIE fighter on the spring that I think looks really cheap. Now it's in front of me. I didn't sort of get blown away by any of the elements in the game itself. And I think the hardest thing when you step up to the game for the first time is understanding the rule set of the game. I just really get confused by stacking modes and you literally like can't understand what to do in the game by reading the apron card you need someone there to explain it to you and luckily for me crazy levy was there when i played it for the first time and he was giving me a tutorial but crazy levy can't be everywhere in america when people play this game that's that's right and i think that uh just putting an apron card on there is a joke in itself they should just put yeah we can't fit all this shit onto an apron card what's what's what's what's frustrating is we all know the star wars story right so if i walk up to a star wars machine and i know there's a lot of debate about how to tell a narrative through pinball whether you know when dwight did ghostbusters and it was like sequentially how the movie unfolds but if i walk up to star wars i know the story so when i begin the journey i should kind of know where that journey begins because i'm familiar with it in the movies but in this game it's like oh wow the first thing i'm doing in star wars is combining ewoks with like finding r2d2 it's like two things that don't go together and like this doesn't even make any sense so and then it's laid on top of each other and then you've got sounds and music clips from everywhere so yeah it becomes a convoluted and you look at the screen it's like am I in an X-Wing or am I in a lightsaber battle? It's really confusing. I just don't think they understood or understand how to put yourself in a character.
    15:03
    And it's like when I play Lord of the Rings, the reason I love the theme integration, I feel like I'm in those scenes in the movies and I can understand the sequencing of events. Where I play Star Wars, it's just a lot of things happening at once that just don't make sense to me. I completely agree. So what we're going to do now, guys, we're going to go to a gameplay, not really a gameplay video. We're going to go to like an overview of the machine itself. Waspinator is going to help us out with that, show the shots layout, basic rule set. But, again, if we did a rule set on this game, Greg, we'd be here forever. And I don't want to do that because, quite frankly, I'm not a big – I like rules, but I don't like crazy-ass multiplier rules. So I wouldn't even – it would be painstaking for me to have to go through and record that. So, let's go to the gameplay video. Let's learn a little bit and see a little bit more about Star Wars, and then we'll come back. Kaneda, Greg, and I will review this. Hey, what's up, guys? This is Zach from straight down the middle of Pinball Show. I forgot my microphone, so if this is a little low, I apologize. We're here at Waspinators. He's going to show us how in the hell to play this beautiful Star Wars machine. All right, man. So, what do we need to know first off about Star Wars? Whenever we start it, we have four options, right? Yes. Okay, what do we got? So there are four options when you start the game, and you're going to have to pick a character. You've got Luke, you've got R2-D2, you've got Leia, and you've got Han. Okay. Now, in my opinion, the difficulty of the game starts at Han and goes towards Luke as far as easiest to more difficult. Good to know. I prefer Han. Okay. So we've got – do we have Han, Leia? Yes. Yeah, we've got Han, Leia. And what do we do? So from here, you're going to choose your skill shot. So that's kind of randomly picked at the start of each ball. So each character has I think like 25 or so, it may not be that much or maybe more, skill shots that will randomly be picked from, as far as I know it's random anyway, to choose your path. So a lot of the times I'll pick start the Tatooine mode because it's a lot easier to start that way as opposed to shooting for that because it's a difficult shot. But 99% of the time I'll just go straight for Linus K from Boba Fett, not for any other reason other than I really like the mode. Very cool, very cool. So when you plunge the ball, where's it going to end up? It's going to end up with these stand-ups right here? It can. So if you hit these stand-ups here, you're going to get one of these roving multipliers if you hit it correctly. Now, if you don't hit whatever is roving, you're not going to get that multiplier. But if you short plunge, it can come over here to the force targets. That's the Hobbit. That's just like the Hobbit. Yeah. So you can get that skill shot that way. So what do you get if you skill shot these over here? Now, as far as I'm aware, you just get a spotted letter. Okay, as far as I'm aware the spotted letters you need because in order to spot a letter you have to hit that whole bank Down once right and then light F. Yes, and then you hit them all down again that light Oh, yes, and then each letter has its own award every letter Yeah, now one cool thing though like what we got back to talking about characters Luke is strong with the forest But I thought yeah, he starts with a letter already spotted. Okay, so that's why so that helps Yeah, and then once you've knocked down I think is it II you're gonna multiple or something like it E is supposed to start like Saber Duel, which is also known as Jedi Duel on the end of the 12. So that's going to be like one of your qualifiers for Jedi Multiball. Okay. So we've picked our character. We start playing this game. This thing's 100 miles an hour. Yep. So it's hard to keep up with what is going on. But what we do know is that the object of the game is to complete three, three, or four, right? There's four in each. Four, eight, twelve, sixteen? There's sixteen main modes and like six or seven little mini modes. And we know that you can stack these modes. Yes. You can stack a couple multi-balls. And the object is to try to defeat one, two, and three, then the main, we'll call it what, mini wizard mode? Yeah, I mean I call them hot dog modes, but mini wizard mode is... Hot dog modes, I love that, you heard it here. Waspinator calls them hot dog modes. Okay, so then we escape from Hoth, we destroy the Death Star, we escape from Tatooine, and then we battle above Endor, and that should technically bring us to... No, that's still not a wizard mode, is it? No, so once you finish all these, what's going to happen is... Nothing. Nothing's going to happen. Okay. Okay, so the main wizard, at least not yet. Now, once you complete all of these modes, it's going to give you victory laps. Okay. We all know what that is. And if not, it's basically, hey, you completed a mode, shoot a multiball for points, or you can shoot a ball around for points. So you're gonna get those each time you complete one of these. Now if you fail to complete the mode, it's still gonna spot. But you're not gonna get the victory multiball. So with victory multiball, the way the wizard mode in this game works is you know how I told you you had to complete all these right So not only do you have to complete them you have to complete the Victory Multiball also Oh damn Once you complete the Victory Multiball you get a medal Kind of like an achievement You have to have four medals. Okay. So, basically, you have to blow this machine away to get to the wizard mode. Damn. Okay. Very similar to Valinor Multiball. Alright. Now, if we're looking at shots here, we've got drop targets to the left, the force drop targets, right? Uh-huh. We've got our left orbit with the spinner. Uh-huh. Anything in particular, certain shots, like is the left orbit, right orbit, anything in particular? Or is it just shots per mode or shots per hurry up? Right now, that's about it. There's very little reason other than the modes themselves to shoot the spinner or the right orbit. They can go into the pop-upers, but it's at this point an afterthought. So we've got left orbit. We've got the Death Star shot, which acts almost like Magneto in X-Men. It's got that fork that comes up. But the fork comes up if you're taking the right portion of the orbit.
    20:51
    Okay, so, yeah, there's actually another thing back here as well. Oh, okay. So I actually just let off. I think that's not an option, is it? We're pissing it off. Anyways, yeah, so if you come around this way, it's going to lock the ball in behind it. It's going to lock it off. If you come in the other way, too. Okay. Can we turn this off? No, it's fine. Okay, so. Just drain it in the middle. Just drain that guy out. So whether it's the Death Star shot or the Hoth shot, it's going to lock the ball in the same place. Okay. Right behind. It's going to chop your damn finger off, brother. Basically, yes. So it's going to lock. Don't do that at home, kids. That's right. So, and then, you know, you can either start the Death Star shot or Hoth, whichever one. So if that is, if Death Star is blinking, that means your mode's ready. Yes. Gotcha. Okay. And then to the right. So this is an inner horseshoe orbit. Yes. A very fast one at that. To put it mildly, yeah. Yeah, and then you've got to the right of that left horseshoe orbit, you have your ramp shot that goes up and around. You've got your Steve Ritchie special. That's right. So that is green, indicating the indoor shot. And then you've got the right portion of the orbit there, as well as the video mode, which I don't think is coded quite yet. It's not. So video mode is going to be when you spot R, but it's not in there. I see. Okay, good to know. Good to know. All right, then you've got this three stand up bank here, and that's responsible to see if I did my homework right here It is responsible for most players and it can keep them keeping them going as well as TIE fighters Yes, okay, very good, and then I didn't miss this tie fighter right here So that stand up target yeah, it hits and it's got a coil behind it and bobbles it around right yep Very cool, and you hit that whenever you go into and then you'll go into TIE fighter TIE Fighter? TIE Fighter Multi... Well, yeah, TIE Fighter Hurry Up will come first. I think the first one starts at maybe five. So then you have to hit it. Once you hit it, you go into TIE Fighter Assault. Okay. And that's going to be your... You slam the button as much as you can. Now, there was actually a grace period when the clock got to zero, and you could still get TIE Fighters. So if you're on .83 code, you can still do that. But with the newest update, as soon as it hits zero, If you keep slamming the button, all you're really going to be doing is moving your multipliers around. Okay. All right, going to the right of that, we've got the right ramp. Like you said, that Steve Ritchie special goes up and comes back down. It looks just like Star Trek, actually. And then you've got stand-up targets.
    23:25
    Wasp Manator said that they mimic Lannister in Game of Thrones. A lot of that. Then you've got your right orbit. From the gameplay videos I've seen, the orbits look pretty smooth. They are very smooth, yeah. Every shot is smooth. I mean, I know this looks like super ridiculous, and it is super ridiculous and super good to look yeah super ridiculously fast But it's so smooth and satisfying so going to the right here We have a right scoop that's responsible for mystery as well as your tattooing shots And I think that's about it. There's my favorite shot of the game because this is what I'm so good at it's draining So the right drain here But what is good to know if there is an escape so on Star Trek? It's to the left It's like this kickback simulation, right? So to the right, if you have escape lit, then if it drains down there, it's going to kick your ball back. Yeah, that just gets you a new ball. Gets you a new ball. There's no kickback, sadly. It just gives you another ball. I want kickbacks. Me too. Damn. I want some kickbacks. So that's about it. Thanks again, Waspinair, for running us through this game. No problem. And Greg and I are going to review this bad boy now. Thank everybody. Or thank Waspinair. Hey, thank you. All right, guys, so now you got to see what Star Wars is all about. Hopefully at this point in time you guys have been able to see the machine, at least in person, or a lot of high-res photos. We'll show those on the screen here as well. But get your hands on the Star Wars because our reviews are only one thing. We want you guys to play it and tell us more than likely, you know, you're going to tell us we're right. Exactly. Who knows? Maybe you love the game and you think we're complete idiots. That happens quite frequently as well. So, Kaneda, let's start with art, man. We'll kick it off to you. What do you think about the art package? Yeah, I mean, I just think it's mediocre.
    25:11
    I've, you know, I'm probably in this sort of minority group where I consider pinball artwork to be super important. I think pinball machines are works of art, and I think games should be as exciting to look at when they're off as they are to play when they're on. and again because it's Star Wars I think all of our reviews have to go through that filter but it's Star Wars which demands things be the best possible thing I think the art's mediocre I think when I look at it I just, to me the one thing this is like the new Stern that I can't get over look at the pop bumpers on Simpsons Pinball Party, they're the nuclear reactors, there's this sense of Like art is not just on the play field, but art is also the sculpting of the toys and the mechanisms. And on Star Wars, they're just dropping like Lando's face on a pop bumper that's flat with no depth, nothing. And I just feel like when I look at it, I don't get a sense of all the different universes and planets and scenes from the movie coming to life on the artwork itself. It's just a bunch of characters with the Millennium Falcon. I don't know. And there's so much blue. I just don't see blue as the color of the Star Wars universe. That's a good point. I mean, pop bumpers alone, look what Jersey Jack did with the Hobbit with the barrels. Oh, yeah. I mean, just that kind of stuff. Or even Ghostbusters, like we've talked about before. Just putting a damn plastic over those to create that world inside of the box there. And that's just the pop bumpers alone. For me, what screams to me, the play field, it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. No, in person I think it's a lot better than in photos. I'm okay with it. My biggest pet peeve, because the Translight is fine. I like the Translight. For an LA, if I'm spending $9,000, give me a damn back glass. Like, stop doing that shit. That's ridiculous. But the cabinet art, like everybody hails this premium, right? But if you look at it, I hate how, I want the cabinet to tell a story as well. I don't want one half to be part of a movie, and then the other has to be a stark different color combination. So you've got Hoth in one scene with all the snow and everything. Then you're in mid-outer space on the other side of the cabinet. That's why I really like the L.E. cabinet art, because at least it's the Millennium Falcon in action on both sides.
    27:37
    When it comes to art package, it translates on a good way. I'm at, where am I at? I'm at a B. So I was higher than I thought I would be on this grade. Just because I love the back glasses. I'm good with the L.A. back glass, actually, because I think you can do a lot behind the back glass itself. If it was a true mirrored back glass, which they should do, again, you guys, this is freaking Star Wars. Right. Star Wars. So you like the L.A. back glass with the characters' backs to you and they're going in at this sort of light speed? I hate it. I'm blown away that he likes it. I like it because it tells a story. At least it tells me a story. I don't have to have all this Photoshop characters everywhere. it's like oh I want the dark characters I want to tell a story and to me that hyperspeed and you've got the main characters right there I think it's so plain I feel like the characters it's like they saw the playfield artwork and they're jumping into lightspeed to get away from the pinball machine as fast as possible I actually think the premium and the pro back glasses are better I think the LE package I do like the Millennium Falcon but that's the thing with this machine is I feel like each version of it has a compromise and the Ellie though should be unanimously like that's the creme de la creme like I think people would say to me Ghostbusters Ellie was like the greatest Ellie in terms of like it looked the part I got why I would spend more on this I don't think Star Wars has that same sort of confidence that this is the creme de la creme version I completely agree Greg and I always say that Star Trek LE was the nicest and the greatest Stern LE and then after that nothing compares so you have a theme like Star Trek which is great it's huge it's no Star Wars so why wouldn't you at minimum do the treatment that you did with Stern Star Trek that I don't know the play field itself the choices I don't think they're great that's why I'm going to be where you are I'm going to C on it I just think it's average It's an okay thing. Where are you at, Canadian? I'm at a C as well.
    29:48
    I think this game will go down as, like, a little bit better than Game of Thrones, a little bit better than – you know, like, we could talk about Richie and artwork too because, like, all of his themes – man, the art is always, like, the afterthought. And it's something that you'll hear over and over again. It's – he'll give you the flow, but he won't give you the visual pop that people want with these themes. Yeah. That's a good point. Do you think that's a Richie thing or do you think it's because he's given the themes that are huge that have the most restrictions?
    30:18
    Yes, because we don't see it from the other designers as much. I think he's the designer. We hear this a lot on the forums lately. It's like who do you blame if a game comes out? And it's not like one person to blame. But at the end of the day, the designer needs to take responsibility because it's his game. and I'll go out on a limb and say the greatest designer that's also the best creative director of all time is John Papaduke like he would never let that game come out looking like that and I think you know I just don't think that's Steve's thing I just don't think he looks at Game of Thrones and says we can't release this we've got to go back if it means delaying the game whatever we can't release a bunch of cogs as the world of Game of Thrones but but he was okay with it on some level but do you think he just gets stuck in gameplay and flow so much that he just misses everything else yeah it almost looks like and people are saying this and i believe it i feel like he designs the whitewood before even knowing what the theme is in a way and you don't put that theme over it acdc is the one where i really feel like he it's it's acdc it's got the bell it's got the cannon it's got like i feel like they really thought that through very nicely. If you put ACDC next to Star Wars and you say, which one did you intimately bring the world of that theme to life?
    31:42
    It's like we're going backwards with a bigger theme. That's very true. Canada's at a C. I'm going to be Greg's at a C. Let's talk about shots and layout. For shots and layout, I'll kick this one off. It is very basic Richie. I can take five Richie design games and I guarantee you I could put a Frankenstein together that is Star Wars. Now, shots and layout, does it shoot good? It does shoot good to me. It's really fast. But is there any shot that is absolutely satisfying? For me, it's the horseshoe orbit. I like that. Otherwise, I've got these same Richie ramps. And ramps are huge to me, I like a good, nice John Papaduke, swirly-ass ramp that's doing something special. So for me, I was at a B. And I was at a B+. But I just like Richie. I like that flow. I like Star Trek, or Star Wars a lot. Or Star Trek a lot. I like Spider-Man. I like a lot of that flow, but at the same time, I think it falls to the whole problem that both of those games fall to, is those shots, while they're satisfying in the beginning, it gets very old, very repetitive, and it gets very boring very quick because you can just keep going you just keep going yeah yeah flow is nice and it's amazing at first and it feels good at first but then it i feel that it kind of loses its luster and to add before we throw it over to canada one of the things i freaking hate about steve richie it's not because it's hard everybody's gonna be like oh it's because it's hard that stand-up drop or it's not even a drop the stand-up targets right in the middle of the play field there is freaking nothing satisfying about that there's just not if you make them into drops or make them into drops that have at least, God forbid, targets behind them or maybe a pass through hole that goes into something. But the biggest part of your multipliers is three stand-up targets that do nothing. There's nothing satisfying about that shot. What do you think, Fernando? Yeah, I think it flows really nice. I think it's fast. I would just say with a caveat, we're talking about the pro, right? So we don't know yet. And we'll see tonight. They're going to show the LE finally, what the hyperdrive, what the shot into the Death Star is. Because I do think the Pro looks really stripped down. And the two main probably fun elements, which are hyperdrive and the shot into the Death Star, aren't available for us to review. But I don't think those are going to add that much. I don't know what they could add. No, because they're not interactive. I agree that the targets right below the LCD screen are really boring to shoot.
    34:23
    I would love to see a lot more happen in terms of what the ball interacts with. And I think the main thing I keep harping on is Star Wars is a story about using the force. And how do you not have magnets force grab the ball? For me, with that missing, I just don't feel like stuff is happening in the game physically. that feels like I'm going through the Star Wars universe. I feel like I'm going through a pinball universe, and pinball flow is happening, and so much of it is about rolling the ball over lights and switches, but it's not dropping me into the world of Endor or Tatooine or Dagobah. That's what I want to feel more on the play field, and I think they relegated so much of that to just the LCD screen, which my belief is Storm doesn't really know how to incorporate LCD yet with properties like this. They're still learning.
    35:18
    Yeah, well, and that's, I think that that's where, like, even though Star Trek was so stripped down and everything, and the play field is actually kind of bland when you look at it, I still felt that it kind of, if you watch those Star Trek films, it still kind of encompassed, in a way, the feeling of Star Trek, in a sense, especially with the warp ramp and the call outs and the sounds sort of match, and it was just that clean play field that kind of fit a clean spaceship Like they had their uniforms, the colors, everything. And so it's still kind of, as bare as what that play field was, it was still integrated a lot better than what. At least you had a third flipper, so you're adding some shots. Yeah. Just on shots and layout on Star Wars, I don't feel like I'm interacting with any shots. Like I know Papa Duke is Papa Duke, but I was playing a theater of magic the other day, right? And there's so much going on that is magical. You don't like just the Vana shot where a simple diverter puts it into like a little scoop or a saucer and it holds it there and then kicks it out when you're not expecting it. That's the kind of stuff that you put into the greatest theme of all time for a pinball. Yeah. I think a good way to think about it is if I'm going to invite someone over that doesn't know pinball and I say I want to show you two magical shots that are going to wow you. Yeah. Even just one magical shot. So like Aerosmith, whenever people see the ball being flung into the toy box, that's freaking cool.
    36:44
    Houdini, when the ball's fired three freaking feet into that lockbox, amazing. What has Star Wars got? Nothing. It's got a TIE fighter on a spring, a bunch of drop targets that are stolen from ACDC, and an LCD screen. So there's like nothing there. For the life of me, I can't understand why there's no like force grabbing of the ball. And that's what's weird because even if you were a location, if you put them out on location, that's the stuff that would grab you and keep you around playing. And it feels like it just solely relied on the theme to pull people in, even if you take collectors aside and everything else and you're talking about routing. I mean, it was beautiful artwork that pulled you in, beautiful back glass or trans light that would pull you there. And then cool, neat shots, gimmicks is what kept you there. That's why the pinballs have them. And this doesn't have anything to keep you there. The problem is real simple. They are designing these games for tournament players who could care less about any of that stuff. They don't like the randomness. I was talking to someone the other day about the EMP mode in Dialed In, which I think is one of the coolest modes in pinball history. It feels like there's eight magnets underneath the Dialed In play field, and the EMP mode, when that fires, it throws the ball all over the place. I love it. Tournament players hate it. They skip it. They don't want it because it might throw the ball down the middle. And I think that's the problem is this machine, Star Wars machine, is made with the code. It's made for tournament players who want to understand how to stack that complex mode set, understand the rules. And look, we're getting people scoring 40 billion points. But what does that even mean, 40 billion relative to like 2 billion? It's just you lose people. And here's the thing. Why would Stern focus on making a tournament game, though? With Star Wars, that is so broad to the masses that— You know why? It's something that's happened over the last few years, and this is just my speculation, is the most vocal people on the forums are the tournament players per se. who, like CrazyLevy, good friend, the feedback they get is incorporated a lot by these developers and these coders. I mean, look at the coders. These guys are in the tournaments. They want to make games that have depth. But I think they want to make more of the depth happen in terms of how to score. See, I just, for a lot of the collectors out there, I enjoy going through the modes and getting to the end of the game. Like, in Totem, I love beating the genie. I don't really, Does anyone really care what your score is when you destroy the ring in Lord of the Rings or get to there and back again? It's not really about the score.
    39:29
    And it's like when you play Mario Brothers on Nintendo, just beating Bowser is so rewarding. No one's like, oh, but I scored this. So it's a juggling act. And right now I think Stern is doing too much to emphasize scoring and code and not enough to emphasize the magic on the play field itself and that why I thought at least Ghostbusters it was kind of a twofold in a sense because you still had a really good journey had very good modes, but also you could kind of blow up the scoring on it. If you focused on that or they kind of went hand in hand. But it wasn't, it wasn't 40. No, no, no. Max is going to be what? Six times playfield. Yeah. Star Wars. We're dealing with fricking 40 times. Well, that's what I'm saying. Ghostbusters was kind of a double-edged sword. You could either go for points if you wanted to. Yeah, it was kind of a two-fold thing. The audience knows that Greg and I are both big Ghostbusters fans. I think that that game in itself, people rip it. I get it. I get why they rip it. But for me, it's one of the greatest games ever made because it is – the theme is 100%. It hits 100%. The gameplay is linear. It tells me a story. There's wizard modes, albeit they suck. There are wizard modes to obtain. and you get the art package, you get the different call outs. They did it there. So I don't – Ghostbusters is what pinball used to be. In five minutes, you're loving it. Yeah. And look, if they could have not had the flipper gap and the cheap drains and the outlines, there's a couple of things that I think make that game – it's like so fun and so frustrating at the same time. It could have been the perfect Stern pinball machine of all time. but I just still thought that Ghostbusters would be the new benchmark for them and that we'd keep improving upon that kind of game and again I look at Star Wars as a huge step back from what Stern gave us with Ghostbusters there's nobody that could argue that it isn't that's just a fact look at the string of games you had with Ghostbusters you had Walking Dead they released some of the Metallica, yeah you released some of the best games that there were and it's like you said now they're almost going back to when you had Harley Davidson and Big Buff Hunter and that sort of stuff.
    41:43
    I think those may be a little better. CSI makes Star Wars look barren. There's at least fun stuff to do in CSI. A rotating microscope. There's more innovation in that than the TIE fighter in the spring. That's right. So, Kaneda, when we're talking about shots and layout, what kind of grade do you think it is? I mean, on the pro right now, I mean, I would give shot layout, I would give it a B- just because of the lack of interaction with the ball with toys and mechs.
    42:14
    Now, we know that the premium Ellie is going to have that gimmick shot. Let's just hope, whenever we see the gameplay of it, that it's not just one ball going around and that's it. Let's hope, because I'll tell you what, with the getaway, he did have a shot in that supercharger that changed the game. Whenever I have people walk up to that machine whenever I had one, I had people – I made sure they got to that supercharger because their faces lit up. That was the magical moment. If he can pull that off with this and it's not just some – just one lap around and that's it, or if you can't get them all going at once, I think he's failed in that gimmick. That's the big question is will it be a ball lock or not?
    43:00
    Yeah. We'll find out tonight. We will. Everything we've heard so far that it is not a ball lock at all. So you're to be mad.
    43:11
    We've already kind of touched on this, but rules. Go ahead. What do you think? Rules? Yeah, what do you think? Oh, man, my rules, I had to give it a C. I thought it was very mean. And it was just because of the multipliers and everything. I don't really care for that. It's a deep game, but then I also don't like being able to run everything at one time. It's confusing and it's odd. I, again, like just more of a straight set path. Or just something easier to follow. Understand. Yeah. I'm just confused. You played the shit out of it. I don't want to think about it so hard. I want to have fun. What are you thinking? Where are you at on rules? Yeah. I don't understand them. It's sort of like asking me to review a movie that's in another language. What I do know is I've been reading a lot of really good players say, This game's gone too far with multipliers. The stacking of scenes from the movie makes absolutely no sense. It feels like I get it in Game of Thrones because Game of Thrones is a story about houses uniting and forming allegiances. And it made sense. That makes no sense in Star Wars. And I think Dwight – I mean Stern's been doing this a lot, right? Like just completely copying and pasting the framework of a code from one game to another. we saw it with Kiss and Aerosmith right where like even in the code itself it was saying Kiss when it was an Aerosmith game at the very early stages so I would give the code right now again because I think the code could be so much better I would give it a C for confusing I love that what I would say about the code I'm a little bit nicer I'm going to B plus and I'll tell you why.
    45:01
    Because I want to give... All the bitching he's done about it is a B+. Hear me out here. We can't say it's not deep. Pinball players want deep... I want deep code. I just don't need it to be stacked. I'm giving a B+, because the work that Dwight Sullivan did put into it, you can tell he was trying to make this thing. Oh, yeah. He put his heart into it. He did. You can't knock that. There are multiple modes. There are multiple mini wizard modes. There's a grand, large wizard mode. There are multi-balls. The code itself, it's hard for me to go anywhere below a B+, because of how much work he put into it.
    45:42
    The difference is it would have been an A-plus code. All he would have had to do, he could still do this, is stop stacking the modes. Make me, and it's going to be a tougher game, make me get through each mode independently, like Lord of the Rings getting to Valinor or something. It should be hard to do. I shouldn't be able to, that's what I like about Simpsons pinball parties, you stack all the damn things, you don't know what's going on. Spread them apart, lower the multipliers to maybe two, three times most. Let me go through this story, even if it's not sequential, like Ghostbusters linearity between Ghostbusters. You can start different modes because we all know the story of Star Wars, but I can't go below B+, just because there's a lot of work, and I think Dwight Sullivan has raised his game over the last five years when it comes to coding. Game of Thrones was pretty good code. I think that Ghostbusters, for me personally, it was a really good code. It still needs to be tweaked a little bit. The wizard modes suck and it's got glitches, but I'm going to B-plus for the rules. Let me ask you a question about code because obviously there's a checklist of things that people want when they play pinball, wizard modes, multiballs, all that stuff. But what separates good code from great code is emotion. like what do you feel like the coder brought you into the world right we hear it all the time with horde mode and walking dead and how that one mode like transports you to a special place same way with like there and back again and that's what's missing for me right now i mean caveat being this is only code what like 0.87 so there's more code to come um but i do feel a lack of emotional sort of grip in the way the code is right now. And I think the stacking makes it hard. The multipliers make it hard. And the way the code is unfolding right now just is a little sort of sterile, if I can use a word like that. Well, let's not kid ourselves. I know we're saying it's .87 and all, but, Kenan, we know that this isn't going to go. Look at their history over it. It may never get done. he's not going to add anything significant enough like these large wizard modes or that's not going to happen but you just said you would love it to be you know less stacking we all know they're not going to do any of that so that's why I think we you know we always bring our expectations to how they could polish but they just they rarely polish like Lyman polishes but that takes like forever and a day yeah that's right I think the last great coded game was The Walking Dead, and I don't think anybody's going to put that much effort because of how many machines are being cranked out. Gomez wants three cornerstones, he wants a remake, and he wants a boutique every single year. I like that they're bringing more games out, but at the same time I feel like it's hindering them. Yeah. Why not just make two great games a year versus four games that take forever to finish? Either that or, man, I don't care if you make ten damn games. Hire some more freaking coders. It's so special about these guys that they can't oversee or supervise a group of coders that they just freelance in. I don't care what it takes. They don't pay these guys much. All the good coders are making mobile games and video games. Those guys are making ducats. I think people honestly don't understand how little Steve Ritchie makes.
    49:04
    It's like these guys aren't making a ton of money. And Stern is – they're all about the margins these days. and there's great coders out there, but not for $85,000 or not. You said it great on one of your podcasts, and you said that – I don't want to, you know, mis-term you, but you said that most of the people in the hobby that have these large collections make a lot more money than the designers themselves that are designing the games. Yeah. I mean, I hang out with a bunch of dudes that are wealthier than Gary Stern and George Gomez. I mean, the margins in pinball are not great. I mean, per machine sold, I would be surprised if Stern makes maybe $1,000 a game. Oh, come on, Kenneth. You think it's only that? Maybe $1,500. I mean, see, here's the thing, though. Delays eat away at it. Everything eats away at the profit. So maybe $2,000. I mean, look, now that they're charging $9,000, yes. Yeah. And for Batman Super LE, they just, like, Gary was laughing to the bank on that game. Wow. Laughing all the way. But as I said on a couple of podcasts ago, when you look at Star Wars L.A. over the premium, it's literally like you're giving Stern a million dollars and they're not giving you anything else. So that's where the profit lies with them. It's the alcohol and the dessert of a restaurant where they make all the money. Yeah, very true. That's a good analogy. So moving on into Poison Innovations, which, again, we've kind of touched on and it's kind of an even more stripped down mess, I guess. Yeah. Where are you at, Kaneda, with your toys and innovations on it? Can I give a D to a game? Yeah, you can give a D to a game. I'm giving it a D. The reason why is they've got three movies of the most amazing things to bring to life. And the fact that there's no Han Solo in Carbonite, there's no raising the X-Wing in Dagobah, there's no force training, there's no physical lightsabers clashing in the game. There's nothing. The hyperdrive is – you don't even see the hyperdrive in the movie.
    51:09
    And it's not a pivotal moment of the film. Yes, they're always trying to escape into light speed. But man, that's just like the stopgap moments of those films. It's not like the iconic emotional moments. So I just think with everything they had to work with, if Steve Ritchie walked into my office and I'm George Gomez and he's like, you know, the main feature is going to be a hyperdrive. I'm going to be like, no, it's not. it's going to be the emperor's chamber it's going to be Luke and Darth Vader are going to have lightsaber battles no it's not, go back to the drawing board yeah mine on toys and innovation was the C- I wouldn't far off from you there was just nothing there the TIE fighter was a little better in person than what I thought it was going to be but it's still just a toy on a spring it's literally a bobble head on my dashboard that just kind of drives me crazy that you would stick that in there. And then, like you said, the hyperdrop, like that's, yeah. Why doesn't the Death Star laser, like, fire out? Yeah. Like, it's just lights. Yeah. Lasers are cheap. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. And that's what, like, what I don't get is people complained about when the Jetsons come out, about how that there just wasn't anything going on on the Jetsons and toys and stuff. And they ended up, Spooky went back in, and they added more toys than what Star Wars has. That's true. All on there, honestly. At least they took the critique and said, you know, we've got to populate the play field with a couple little toys and visuals at least, and there's nothing on this game. Yeah. For me, I'm at a C.
    52:46
    And for me, the C comes from just the idea of, I know we're rating the pro, but the hyperspace, regardless of how it works, It is still there. I do like Stern's use of LCD now, like in Aerosmith and Star Wars. Now, for me personally, I like the videos that end up showing up in the LCD. I just think they're crowded because of the stacking. But I even like, kill me, but I like the small LCD screen. Oh, I like that. I like it. I don't think it's integrated well. No, it's not used at all. And it's not used at all. Let me ask you guys a question. The quality, though, right, when those movie clips play compared to the quality of movie clips when The Hobbit plays scenes, it's like I don't understand. It's like Stern is like it's not even – it doesn't even look like HD. No, I think Jersey Jack machines when it comes to LCD is art. I think this is more just a toy. Well, yeah, and do you even consider that a toy? To me, it's just display. I don't – other than the small display on the thing, I don't – It's innovation. Yeah, it's innovation. That's true. It's innovation to me. And if we're talking about innovation, the sound we'll talk about here in a little bit, but just the package is good as well. There are drop targets. I'm going to see. But can you even consider it innovation just because Jersey Jack came out with it before? I mean, that's like when you bought a Lexus 10 years ago, you had Keyless start and everything else. Now, Kia has it. So are you going to go to Kia and be like, damn, they're innovative? No, they just finally upgraded. But for Kia, they are. Yeah, but it's still not innovation. But I would argue too that LCD on the play field is indicative of a lack of innovation and creativity. Like it is like we're just dropping a screen here. Like it's not even framed. It's not even like it's – it has no point other than to just put stuff that could either be on the screen in the back box area. and that to me that takes up real estate where there could have been a physical mechanism without a doubt that whole that area with the pop bumpers and them stand-ups i'm like damn that could have been a cool interactive toy right there out of everything wrong with the machine the toys and innovations is what depresses me and hurts me the most but that's richie right richie doesn't he'd never if you look at most of his games toys and anything that slows down the action to him, I think is contrarian to how he likes to design. And it's not like a knock against him. I mean, some people, you know, if you have three games in your collection, you might want to have an Iron Man next to a Totem, and then you're happy because you've got the best of both worlds.
    55:23
    That's right, but do you think they missed it choosing Richie for this theme? I just don't see... Everyone would have loved Borg or Trudeau to take a swing at Star Wars. And if we're honest, I would have preferred Jersey Jack make this game. Yeah, I mean, and I hate that that's the default now, how everybody's just like, I'd rather have Jersey Jack make the good things because they make a better machine. I hate that because I do like Stern Pinball. I know you like Stern Pinball as well, but it's true.
    56:00
    $9,000 versus $9,000. I mean, I've said it many times. I was telling you guys before. I think Stern makes the world's best $6,000 machines and the world's worst $9,000 machines. And if I can go get dialed in for the same price, I mean, you've got to be smoking some stuff to think dialed in doesn't have more value. That's completely right. So we're at season Ds on Toys and Innovation. Let's talk about music and call-outs. I'll kick this one off. So for me, music, you guys are going to butcher me on this one. I've got an A. I think music and call-outs. First off, when I hear John Williams' score start, and that's probably about the only time it starts is the beginning of the game. But there is nothing more satisfying than hearing that score. There's not enough of it in the game. Yeah. That's why it's not an A-plus for me. But it is there. I do have some call-outs. I've got some video that has the call-outs from Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. It's enough for me. When I played the game, I thought, this sounds very pleasing to me. Yeah, and I gave a little bit less, but I gave it a B-plus just for those exact same reasons. But that was it. But there was nothing unique. I don't know. I wanted some unique call-outs or something that was – Yeah, but what are they going to do? Do you think they're really going to get Mark Hamill to do call-outs for this? You never know. He does a lot of work.
    57:21
    Look, he comes at a price, so he probably wouldn't do it if you paid him. I would give it a B-plus because I think, look, John Williams is an A-plus. Like it's the greatest score of all time in terms of movies. And, you know, so Stern didn't have anything to do with that. So it's amazing. The call-outs, look, I think call-outs also come as code develops. There's definitely stuff in there now. But not getting original call-outs I think has always hurt these big franchises because some of Stern's previous titles had actors from the movies provide some amazing call-outs. And so, you know, look, I think Mark Hamill would have done it if Stern ponied up the dollars, but he's probably super expensive right now. But, you know, look, the music's great, and I agree. Like, when that theme song's playing, there's no better way to attract someone to a machine than that. You can find somebody on Star Wars. I mean, they got the Hound for Game of Thrones. They got, what was the doctor character on Star Wars? Yeah, they got Ernie Hudson for Ghostbusters, you know. Those were good enough. So you're at a B+, I'm at an A, Greg's at a B+, from using callouts. Let's move on to theme. So this is a little caveat here, Kaneda. When we rank themes on this show, we do the theme itself of the pinball machine. That is dialed in as a theme. Star Wars as a theme. Not so much the integration, because we can all agree the integration sucks. We'll talk about that. But with the purposes here, we're for themes. Greg and I are both at an A-plus for the theme of Star Wars itself. Talk about that for yourself. Yeah, I need to know what you guys gave full throttle for us before I answer this question. We haven't reviewed full throttle yet. Full throttle theme-wise. Can we go to an F on this scale? I'd go to a D. Yeah, this is an A-plus for sure. This is the biggest theme in the history of themes. and obviously integration, we have different feelings on that, but A-plus for sure. Okay, so let's talk about the integration. You've said it numerous times, I've said it numerous times on video. This is literally a Steve Ritchie game, and then they put a skin on it that was of Star Wars. There's no real integration into the game itself. It like Kaneda said about the emotion It lacks that emotion It seems like that it was just I want to make this deep tough game or not even maybe tough but I just want to make this deep game And it seems like all the passion went into that with the integration of the theme as very much of an afterthought. Right. If you look at like the data-y Star Wars, and again, I think with a pinball machine and integration, when a machine is off, I want to be able to look down and be like, oh, man, I can't wait to shoot that. I can't wait to see what the ball does when it goes there. I don't think the game has any of that. And that's a shame. I think they had so much to work with, you know, whether it's lower playfields, upper playfields, magnets, something. And it just really is coming up short for me on theme integration. It's just all pinball shots. It's just all a pinball machine. there's nothing that seems specific to Star Wars it's just beautiful flowy shots with a lot of speed and there's just nothing that says Star Wars it's a pinball machine it's like an overlay so as we're looking at let's talk about value so the grading system is over we'll talk about composites here in a minute but value can you find what can you find pro price we got 5200 for a pro Yeah, like $53,000, $52,000. Then the premium is, what, $73,000-ish? Yeah, we're doing $73,000. $8,500 street price for the LE. Yeah. So is there value there, Kaneda?
    61:18
    You know, it's a good question. I wouldn't buy one on any trim level just because it doesn't excite me. And these things are all getting really expensive. And I think if I were to buy one, I would buy the premium. I think the premium is the way to go because I do think the pro is really stripped down. I do think the Hyperdrive and Death Star shots will at least add something more because it needs more. I would get so bored with the pro so quickly. I'm shocked at the amount of people buying the pro. It's weird to me that people have like $5,300 but not like $7,300 for such an unnecessary item. It's weird. It's like buying a $100,000 car and then not getting the headrest upgrade for $500. It's weird. I just think go with the one that has all the features if you can get it at the best price. I think the LE value is laughable. The fact that they took out the shaker, no back glass, no topper. Because here's what Stern is going to do now.
    62:24
    You're going to be able to get the topper for an extra $500. They're going to sell a kit for the LE that makes the lights in the back box look like it's going to hyperdrive. That will be another few hundred bucks. The railing on the sides don't light up the way Star Trek did. You just go down a list of what you used to get is now removed, but the price has gone up. And it's hard to support a company doing that. And then we were talking about dialed in. And again, both games are available new in box right now today. I don't know how you would choose Star Wars over Dialed In in terms of value. No, and just like they're making this new glass, right? This non-reflective glass. For the love of everything pinball, put the damn cheap – you know they're getting that glass cheap. Put the damn – yeah, I know. Put it in the – look, I don't see how anybody can buy a Stern. This is bold, but I apologize. I don't see how anybody can buy a Stern LE going forward without limited edition features. A topper is a must. A shaker is a must. Armor is a must. That damn glass that they just created is a freaking must and a back glass. That is an LE. Steve Ritchie is not even signing the play field now. It's a cheap piece of paper that they're sticking on the apron. To me, it's the little things. It's the little things that collapse empires. and that to me is like leaking water. How can you get that lazy? Because the whole point is I want to know that the artist signed the actual thing. They could have just mailed Richie 800 pieces of paper and he could have signed those things in like the Philippines for all I know and then mailed them back.
    64:09
    You're not going to take a play field to Richie. It's just cheap. It's cheap. Look, I've been calling him out on it. And look, the fact that Star Wars LEs are still available to buy from a distributor says all we need to know about Stern went too far this time with removing value from the game. But hold up. I don't think it's just this time, Kenny. I think it's progressively getting worse. It's not just a this time thing because the last damn game we had, what, Aerosmith? That was lacking features. That didn't have a shaker, did it? Did Aerosmith have a shaker? I don't think so it's a real back class it certainly didn't come with a topper like Jersey Jacks do and it certainly didn't come with that damn reflective glass but this was even worse because at least on some things like Ghostbusters things and Aerosmith you had a decent jump between a pro and a premium whereas this there's just not a jump between all three of them that's worth very much and that's what makes the LE even more lackluster.
    65:14
    And tonight's going to be interesting because to me, the hyperdrive is going to either satiate people or everyone's going to bail. It's going to be a very fun night because if it's lackluster, my hunch is it's not that great and that's why they haven't shown any footage yet because they don't want everyone to bail on their LE orders because a lot of people have passed the point of refunds from distributors because they were told, you know, after this date, the money's locked in. And Stern's never had a grade A title that's sort of, you know, people have wanted to get out the 11th hour like this, like Star Wars, like Batman sold out, Ghostbusters sold out. They've got 800 LEs they need to sell, not 240, not 400. but if we're talking about what's going to come in the le in that gimmick at the end of the day i don't care if that damn gimmick is the coolest thing you've ever seen you still go with the premium yeah they're still right yeah no totally so what do you think let me let me ask you this what do you think stern will do if they do not sell those le's and they're still gonna sell them Do you think they'll sell them? Yeah, because the other side of the hobby is the pinball buyer, which has proven time and time again to be dumber than Stern because they buy before even seeing something. They buy before they even like – the fear of missing out. I've never seen a hobby like this where people go all in and they don't even know what their cards are. Imagine playing poker. I haven't even given you three cards yet or five cards, and you go all in every time. And that's the way a lot of these new inbox collectors are. But I'll say this. People are running out of room, and they're running out of money. And I can feel the pivot happening. People are starting to realize it's not worth it. Plenty of competition too. Right. I mean look at Attack from Mars remake. How much is that LE? What is it, like seven grand? Yeah, about eight, close to eight. Eight, close to eight? I mean that pin has proven to be great. They've improved it on every level. And you get a unique topper. That topper is amazing. You can't buy that aftermarket. You're buying that LE, and that's the only way you're getting that damn topper. Otherwise, you don't get one. That's an LE. Well, and compared to that, if Stern made a topper that interactive and that detailed, it would be $1,000. Oh, yeah. That's exactly right. Which people would easily pay. So is it Stern's fault? I mean, is Stern working for the hobbyist? At this point, unfortunately, I don't think that's the case. No. But are they still getting the money that they need to get by nickel and diamond everybody because they know their market is going to buy the shit anyway? I think so.
    68:06
    I do feel like there's finally some competition. For the last few years, I mean let's be honest, nothing really came out that was supposed to. Lebowski never came out. Alien never came out. Even Hobbit. Hobbit didn't really come out. Medieval Madness was delayed for forever. You know, there really wasn't – I've got $10,000 here. Where can I go get a pinball machine in a box? You know, spooky games are still sort of trying to get to a good level. I think people aren't super impressed just yet. I think there's good stuff to come.
    68:41
    But right now, there's competition for Stern. And I guarantee you Star Wars will not sell as well as they projected a year ago. Oh, of course not. Yeah, of course not. But I'll tell you what, something like what's really intriguing me, tell me what you think about American Pinball's Houdini because I've played it and it's a pretty awesome game. Right now, if I wanted to buy a brand new game, I don't really want to pay nine grand for the dialed in. It's just a little bit over the budget that I'd like to spend, but at $7,000 for a Houdini or $7,000 in a Star Wars premium, I don't think there's another game out there that I'd like to buy. As long as that game comes out and it works and it's proven. I've played it and it works. In a long term, as long as it comes out and there's no major problems with it. I think, in my opinion, it's going to be a success. It's going to be that next notch that's going to hurt Stern even more because there's another manufacturer. In Chicago. Like Spooky, like JJP. With money. They have money. Yeah. Right. But I would say this. And this is where we fall into this trap as fans of pinball.
    69:52
    Manufacturing is the hurdle. And American Pinball, last time I've seen photos inside there, looks nothing like Jersey Jack. It looks nothing like the big factory that Andrew Highway tried to build. How many games can they make and in what volumes? Stern makes 50 games like a week, maybe more, right? Like it's – their assembly line is humongous. They've always got games rolling out. They're still making like Metallica. They're still making Batman's, Ghostbusters. Like they've got eight titles that they're shipping at any one time. So I hope American Pinball can get production down. And that's what it's going to come down to because if people get frustrated waiting, they're not going to wait because there's just so much new stuff. and come October Stern's going to show Guardians of the Galaxy or Deadpool I mean by the time Houdini comes out that's my only concern is that they showed it too early you know as a marketer you never show your product like nine months ahead like why it's hard to do shit hype is hype you need like look at McGregor Mayweather like they're just hyping it like fight's going to suck but you hype it right before you know so that I go spend the $80 like you hype the game right before it comes out that's what I feel JJP finally got right with Dialed In at least was that there wasn't a gigantic wait like the Hobbit and everything yeah and same thing hopefully Spooky gets you know Alice Cooper out quick they show their games up quick yeah and it ought to be out quick so yeah it is a very important lesson there's too many games coming out there are more games for this than I feel like there are Nintendo Switch titles and there's millions of Nintendo Switch owners Because that is the one thing that Stern gets right, other than this game being delayed and delayed and delayed a little bit. But it was still a brief delay in the scheme of things. But, I mean, you look at Aerosmith when it got leaked and everything, and then by the time that it was starting to ship and everything. Like, that is one thing that at least Stern seems to have down, is that we show a game or we leak a few things, and then two months later it's shipping. So you're still kind of on the hype. Right. I think, look, Stern has manufacturing down. All Stern needs to do, all they need to do is get some new young designers in there, up the quality of some of their materials, and they would put everybody out of business. Everybody. Overnight. There's no way anyone can compete with the volume and the manufacturing and the themes they have locked up. But because they don't do those things, the opportunity is open for competition. That's right. We could probably talk about this forever. If we're talking about our composites, Greg's score came out for Star Wars to be a B-. That's fair. My score came out to be a B. I'm going to 3.22, you're 2.72. I'll have to check on that. Then Kaneda's came out as a C+, a 2.5. What do you think about that? C+, are you good with that? Yeah.
    73:00
    I don't like the game. So C++ is – it sounds even like too nice. But yeah, I'll take that. The message we talked about our ratings is they're all weighted the same. The theme is weighted the same as rules. And there's pros and cons to that, but we always found like this is probably the best way to do a comparison at the end of the day. Yeah, but you can't knock theme as it being weighed wrong because, I mean, you take – there's going to be so many people that buy it because it is Star Wars. Yeah, but my point is who's to say that art equals as much as rules or something like that? I would argue, you take away John Williams' music, which bumped all of us way up, and the fact that Star Wars is an A-plus theme, the game is really lower than all of our scores. Yeah, very much so. That's exactly right. So it's hard to get a rating system. But I bought games just on theme. Yeah. I'm telling you guys, I don't want to spend $5,000 for the Star Wars Pro because I don't like it. But, damn it, it's hard not to buy and have a Star Wars machine in your collection. Get it in a year for like $1,500 to $2,000 less. I mean, it doesn't happen. You're going to be close to the daddy Star Wars price by that point. That's exactly right. So, in closing, do a little housekeeping here.
    74:15
    Everybody should check out Kaneda's pinball podcast. You can find it on iTunes. And Chris, where else can we find Kaneda? On SoundCloud as well. Yeah. I can't tout this enough, and this is no bullshit. It's because I look forward to the episodes. They come up. Chris has usually got at least one a week, if not two, three. Yeah, usually two to three a week. Sometimes, man, you have four. You're going on a roll with that. I know. Got a life. I was loving that. But he's got guests on. You've got to check out Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. And make sure you follow him on that as well. Also, we want a big shout-out to Larry at Flippin' Out Pinball, who's a sponsor of ours for all of your Jersey Jack machines, Chicago Gaming Company machines, American pinball machines, as well as the Escalera, a hand truck, as well as different mods for the Hobbit, coin doors, et cetera, et cetera. And Penn Stadium. Penn Stadium is our newest sponsor who's offering state-of-the-art lighting for your pinball machine, fully customizable, app-controlled, flasher integration, GI integration. They're just badass. You've got to check them out at Penn Stadium. And then for all of you that ordered shirts, I talked to the printers. Those should be wrapped up at the very first of next week. So hopefully they will be shipped by midweek. As soon as I get them, I'm ready to ship. I've got all packaging materials. And we're going to do a drawing. We're going to do a drawing for the free t-shirts. Yes. And I got a treat for you guys. Check this out. So this is our newest contest. What we're going to do is we're going to give keywords throughout our streams, throughout our Facebook page, and throughout our YouTube videos. What you're going to have to do as a viewer to get this fabulous prize is you're going to have to get each one of those words and you're going to have to message us all three of those words within the next couple weeks and you're going to be into a list and we're going to draw randomly to get this prize. I'm going to show you what this prize is. Kaneda, you're going to love this, man. Let me see it.
    76:06
    This is a dialed in signed translate by Pat Lawler. Yeah. Look at that. Seem more impressed, Kaneda. Come on. Beautiful. Actually, I have one of those. What? You know who sent those out? Anyone who's in on a collector's edition. Joe from Pinball Star mailed us all one of those. That's really nice. Yeah, so these are compliments of Flippin' Out Pinball. Larry. Larry at Flippin' Out Pinball. He gave us two of them. So we're going to give away two of them, and they do have Pat Lawler's signature on there. He's not always the easiest guy to get to sign stuff. if he's not in the signature line, expo and stuff like that. So we're really excited to be able to give that out. So listen for those words. Again, one word is going to be released on our Facebook page. One word is going to be released on Gregor Eye's stream, and one word is going to be released on an upcoming – This is like an Easter egg hunt. I love it. I need to start incorporating some giveaways. We're making it tougher because we really wanted to keep those.
    77:07
    This moral bone in our body had to speak out and say, we're going to give those away because we wanted them. Yeah. So anything else you want to touch on, Greg? No, man. I think that's it. Check us out on Facebook. Check us out on YouTube. We started on Twitch. We're on Twitch now, guys. Yeah, we have Waspinator streaming for us at 8 o'clock on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. I haven't locked down a day yet. I'd like to do Fridays, but sometimes my Fridays are kind of hectic. So I'm going to lock down a day, but I'm still streaming multiple times a week at random times. So just check your notifications. Go to our Twitch page. Yeah. If you subscribe, follow us. email will come up and it'll say, is Greg streaming? Am I streaming? Et cetera. I'm going to do more of the late night stuff. The nice thing about my streams, I have literally, I go through games weekly, unfortunately. I've always got something new to play. I'm trying to get it dialed in right now to really stream. I'm going to get hopefully one of the first American Pinball Houdini's as well. That's it. Kennedy, you want to add anything? Did we miss anything for you, bud? No, I just want to say I love your show and I really think doing a vlog of pinball is the way to go when you're talking about these machines because it's always hard to showcase on a podcast what's going on with these machines so I think it's awesome seeing you guys up there on YouTube all the time talking about pinball and anyone who takes time out of their day to make pinball content is a winner in my book because we were talking about it people don't realize the hours that go in behind the scenes to doing these things and I really appreciate all you guys do for the hobby I look forward to hanging out at a show soon. So thanks for having me We'll grab a beer man. Thanks Kaneda. See you guys later. Check out our next video on YouTube and watch us on stream. All right
    79:07
    About the air drop in your toilet Really? I'm trying to think what was nastier, that comment or that gas that you just emitted? Yeah. Where did you get this little V-neck? I had it on. I had it on the whole time. I didn't like it. We both got V-necks. What does that say about us? I always have V-necks. You always rip on me for being this certain person. It's only because I wear V-necks. Looks like you're turning into me. I got a long neck. It fits better. I got a long... What are you, a giraffe? A little bit.