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Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Ep 5: It Was A Long Road But We Finally Made It

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·2h 3m·analyzed·Aug 11, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Triple Drain Ep5: Tournament wins, Avengers strategy breakdown, critical first takes on Spooky Halloween/Ultraman reveals.

Summary

Triple Drain Podcast Episode 5 features hosts Joe, Travis, and Tom discussing recent tournament wins (Avengers Infinity Quest launch parties), comparing their competitive strategies on the game, and providing initial impressions of Spooky's newly revealed Halloween and Ultraman pinball machines based on Jack Danger reveal stream. The hosts critique the incomplete code presentation, animation quality, and audio design of both games, with strong preference for Ultraman over Halloween.

Key Claims

  • Both Tom and Travis won Avengers Infinity Quest launch parties at different locations

    high confidence · Tom won at Cool Music Stop Bar and Grill in Harvard, Illinois; Travis won at a separate location where he served as tournament director

  • Spooky sold out Halloween and Ultraman immediately after a 2-hour reveal window with minimal streamed content

    high confidence · Joel states: 'They revealed Halloween and Ultraman. But the reveal was literally a little bit of video footage, a bunch of pictures, and then boom. You either buy it or you miss out within two hours. They all sold out.'

  • Jack Danger streamed the Spooky games on Saturday, which the hosts later watched

    high confidence · Travis notes: 'I saw apparently Jack Danger streamed these games on Saturday. I have no idea how much leeway he gave people. But I missed the live stream, and I waited until late last night for him to upload the video.'

  • Avengers code is considered absurdly complex with multiple viable tournament strategies

    high confidence · Joel states: 'I applaud Keith and Raymond because this code set in this game is absurd... it seems like to me Avengers is a whole different animal. It's got five or six different strategies, and they're all viable.'

  • Tom ranked 51st in WPPR/IFPA rankings; Travis ranked 105th and climbing

    high confidence · Direct exchange: Tom: '51st.' Travis: 'I'm 105th right now. Soon to be dropping.'

  • Halloween's LCD animation quality is poor compared to Ultraman

    high confidence · Tom: 'The LCD did not look good. I'll just come out and say it.' Joel: 'Ultraman was way better. Way better. Yeah, it looks so much better. It blew Halloween out of the water.'

  • Halloween's audio/piano soundtrack is repetitive and monotonous across modes

    high confidence · Tom: 'That soundtrack was playing for three and a half straight minutes and I sat here and I was just wondering what am I doing with my life still having this play. Like, I had to mute it.'

Notable Quotes

  • “I want a company to be able to say, you know what? This code out of box is complete, but we are going to add additional polish to it as we see fit.”

    Joel @ approx 28:15 — Expresses frustration with industry standard of shipping games with incomplete code—a common pet peeve about how pinball differs from video game consumer expectations.

  • “It just seems like to me Avengers is a whole different animal. It's got five or six different strategies, and they're all viable strategies according to what your skill set is.”

    Joel @ approx 16:45 — High praise for Avengers code complexity and design depth, contrasting with typical games that have 1-2 default tournament paths.

  • “When I see it all lit up, like it's almost like a Vegas show with all the lights and everything. It just doesn't strike me as Halloween. It just doesn't.”

    Tom @ approx 35:20 — Theme/aesthetic criticism of Halloween—argues that campy horror tone doesn't translate to the overly bright, Vegas-like LED aesthetic of modern pinball.

  • “Ultraman was way better. Yeah, it looks so much better. It blew Halloween out of the water.”

    Joel/Tom @ approx 34:00 — Direct, clear preference statement establishing Ultraman as significantly superior to Halloween in initial impressions.

  • “I don't really like either of the themes, so I don't know if I can really give either of them justice. But from what I saw gameplay-wise, I just wasn't really excited about either of them.”

    Tom @ approx 30:00 — Acknowledges personal theme bias while attempting objective assessment—important caveat for how he evaluates the games.

  • “It's kind of like I compare it to chess all the time. You know, you know where the pieces move, but then there's different openings. There's different tactics.”

    Travis @ approx 13:30 — Meta-commentary on learning modern pinball rule sets—knowing rules vs. executing strategy are two different skills.

  • “That soundtrack was playing for three and a half straight minutes and I sat here and I was just wondering what am I doing with my life still having this play.”

Entities

Triple Drain Pinball PodcastorganizationJoepersonTravispersonTompersonNeilpersonAvengers Infinity QuestgameHalloweengame

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Triple Drain implementing 'Triple Combo' recurring segment focused on detailed strategy analysis of specific games (planned Avengers episode next); emphasis on rule set learning vs. execution as separate skills

    medium · Joel: 'I'm curious if you had the same strat... I'm so interested... I think the goal is to do Avengers as the triple combo next episode'; Travis: 'That's really the goal overall... It's kind of like I compare it to chess all the time'

  • ?

    event_signal: Multiple Avengers Infinity Quest launch parties held across different locations (Harvard, IL and other sites); tournament scene resuming post-COVID with delayed launches still ongoing

    high · Tom and Travis both won Avengers launch parties; Raymond won Lucky 13 at District 82; hosts note LED Zeppelin and Ninja Turtle launch parties still pending

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Avengers exhibits multiple viable tournament strategies based on skill level, game state, and ball sequencing; players differentiate between opening tactics, mid-game placement, and end-game execution

    high · Travis and Tom describe fundamentally different but equally effective strategies; Tom focuses on Iron Man lock + reality gem stacking; Travis prioritizes portal lock setup via shield grid manipulation

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Spooky's Halloween pinball criticized for poor LCD animation quality, repetitive/monotonous audio design, and aesthetic mismatch (Vegas brightness vs. horror campy tone); theme does not translate effectively to pinball format

    high · Tom: 'LCD did not look good'; 'constant piano' sounds 'exactly like Meteor'; animations 'reminded me of a video that you would see somebody at their house... project up onto their wall'; 'When I see it all lit up, like it's almost like a Vegas show... It just doesn't strike me as Halloween'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.369

0:00
the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right travis you uh you ready yep great tom you ready c all right here we go We're three guys who like to talk and ball. But we came up with a club by our names. We're Joe and Travis down in Suns and Ball. Let's recall ourselves. Triple drink. We're triple.
0:45
Triple drink. Nice sunglasses there, Travis. Holy cow. I'm Steve Ritchie, yo. Oh, okay. All right. Well, hello, everyone. Episode five. We got to our landmark episode. We've been driving headfirst towards this for so long, and we finally made it. Episode five. Yeah. It's an accomplishment. Yeah. I mean, we're fired up. Can't you hear it? Oh, boy. I'm trying to tame myself down because I told myself over these past two weeks that we haven't talked because we don't talk every day or anything like that. that I would try to tone it down and let Tom try to talk a little bit more. That's my goal tonight. That's fair. Okay. Tom, you ready for that?
1:34
Sure. Oh, boy. Good, good, good, good. Hey, Tom. Yes. Butt pretzel. Oh. How about the butt pretzel? I can't wait. This is going to be a great episode. Well, a few little bits of housekeeping. Episode five. First off, a huge apology. I can't see shit with my sunglasses. Let me put those down. All right, go ahead, Joel. A huge apology to Jason Liebel. Here we are saying Jason Liebel. We actually talked for like five minutes before last podcast trying to figure out how to say his name. L-I-E-B-L-E. What is this we? Tom and I did not pronounce the name wrong. We didn't do anything. Why are you throwing us under the bus, Joel? So apparently I was just talking to myself going Liebel, Liebel, Liebel, Liebel. But it's legal. So, Jason, once again, thank you for the jingles. We got plenty more coming your way, basically, that he's made. So I'm excited to share those tonight.
2:31

Ultraman's design and animation approach more closely resembles Batman 66 and Elvira in execution

medium confidence · Tom: 'Ultraman reminded me very much of Batman 66 or Elvira in terms of the way that they incorporated the video clips. You know, they have different graphics, and then... they just have way more video clips and the clips are campy.'

Tom @ approx 38:00 — Visceral, humorous criticism of Halloween's repetitive piano audio—captures frustration with monotonous soundtrack design.

Ultraman
game
Spooky Pinballcompany
Jack Dangerperson
Keithperson
Raymondperson
Cool Music Stop Bar and Grillorganization
District 82organization
Pinball at the Zooevent
Rick and Mortygame
Batman 66game
Elviragame
Mandogame
Pin Clashevent
  • ?

    design_philosophy: Spooky's Ultraman praised for campy video clip integration similar to Batman 66 and Elvira; different graphic sets per mode; animations and audio capture 'campy, comical, fun' tone aligned with pinball hobby aesthetic

    high · Tom: 'Ultraman reminded me very much of Batman 66 or Elvira in terms of the way that they incorporated the video clips... they just have way more video clips and the clips are campy. Like it's, it's comical. It's, they're, they're fun to see.'

  • $

    market_signal: Spooky's 2-hour rapid release with immediate sellout may indicate intentional FOMO/scarcity strategy or capacity constraints; Jack Danger's post-release stream suggests demand for detailed reveal content despite sold-out status

    medium · Joel: 'They all sold out... We were talking, hey, when are they going to stream this? Do they even need to stream it? Is the stream going to help?... You've already sold everything.'; Travis: 'Jack Danger streamed these games... I waited until late last night for him to upload the video'

  • ?

    announcement: Spooky Pinball revealed Halloween and Ultraman via rapid 2-hour sales window with minimal pre-reveal information (photos, brief video clips); both machines sold out immediately; Jack Danger subsequently provided detailed stream coverage

    high · Joel: 'They revealed Halloween and Ultraman. But the reveal was literally a little bit of video footage, a bunch of pictures, and then boom. You either buy it or you miss out within two hours. They all sold out.'; Travis: 'Jack Danger streamed these games on Saturday... I waited until late last night for him to upload the video'

  • ?

    product_concern: Hosts express frustration with industry norm of releasing code marked as 'incomplete' at full $9,000-$10,000+ retail price; comparison to video game industry (Cyberpunk) as negative example; desire for complete out-of-box code with polish as post-sale updates

    high · Joel: 'I can't imagine buying a video game to where they tell me this isn't complete... that pisses a lot of people off in the gaming community and how it doesn't piss people off in the pinball community I have no idea'; 'You're showing me the game. You want me to pay a complete $9,000, $10,000 for it? I would like a complete game.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Ultraman significantly exceeds Halloween in community perception based on initial reveal stream impressions; clear preference established across animation, audio, and thematic fit

    high · Joel: 'It blew Halloween out of the water. Yeah.'; Tom: 'Ultraman was way better. Way better.'; 'It would want an Ultraman over Halloween. Easily. To me, it's a no contest.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Halloween's LCD animation approach using flat graphics with minimal movement criticized as outdated compared to Stern's Avengers approach; audio capture/mixing appears unpolished or incomplete

    medium · Tom: 'The animations, the animation style was very much... Stern used in Avengers. It's taking a flat graphic and it's just moving them'; 'it almost looked, I don't know, it just didn't look right to me'; 'the audio just hasn't been touched' or was poorly captured

    • Is it jingles or jangles? I would say jingles. Of course it is. What's jangle? Okay. Is it multi-ball or multi-ball? Marty-ball. That's what it is. Marty-ball. I would say multi-ball. Haven't you heard how the Papa Crew pronounces it? Morty Ball. So that was a big thing on the Slam Tilt podcast.
    2:59
    And as I did on our stream, I was with Ron Hallett. And Ron says, multi-ball. And I guess here in Wisconsin, we say multi-ball. Multi-ball? Yeah. Yeah, I'm definitely a multi-ball. Multi-ball? Yeah. That's how you pronounce it?
    3:23
    Apparently. It's like Jeff Hill is saying about a boot. A boot. Yeah, but that's Canada. Yeah, I mean. Well, I will tell you. Did my video just drop? We are trying to record video here just to see if we can do anything with it. Tom's is already kind of pixelated. Travis' has dropped out. So there may not be any video. We're just going to do a nice audio for that. You know what's funny, Joe? Oh, you're pixelated on my side, too. Okay. All right. Then it's clear that we both suck. All right. So to dive into this, yeah, episode five, we got some fun stuff to talk about. First off, you two nerds, you've won tournaments. Tournaments are back, and you guys have both won. If you guys want to describe that, go for it. Well, you know, it was an awesome feeling, Joel.
    4:17
    Oh, good. My video's back. And Tom, what did you win there, Tom? Is that the Avengers Infinity Quest? Yes, the pinball launch party. Grand champion for Avengers Infinity Quest. But that's what I won.
    4:30
    How did you win that and I won that? Different locations. But I was told we were the only launch party. Nope.
    4:41
    Where did you win that? This was in Harvard, Illinois. Harvard? Harvard, Illinois. Illinois? Correct. What state is that?
    4:52
    Pronounce that again. No way. Pronounce that again. Illinois, Illinois? Illinois. Aren't you from Chicago?
    5:02
    Yes, that's why I pronounce it Illinois. How do you say it, Travis? Illinois. Illinois? Illinois. Illinois? Illinois. I don't know. This is great. We're getting off base. Everybody's sitting in their car questioning how they say every state as well.
    5:20
    So, yeah, you both launch parties. So, as somebody that doesn't play tournaments, like, Avengers came out a long time ago. So, is typically, like, do launch parties typically happen within a month of the game coming out? Is it just a COVID delay here, or is it usually this long after the game? Definitely a COVID thing. Yeah, because we still have, like, Led Zeppelin launch parties to do. I think people are still doing Ninja Turtle launch parties, I think. Oh, wow. And I know – Makes sense. Yeah, I mean, there's a little bit of backup here. I mean, we got – still waiting on the Raza launch party, though. Wow. We'll get to that. Oh, boy. But Avengers launch party. So what does that mean? I mean, you – like, anybody can show up, everybody plays the game, and whoever has the highest score at the end gets the trophy. I mean, is it a tournament? Like, how do you know? How does that work? Well, how did you go, Travis? I want to know how Joel's launch party went. You know, Joel didn't have a launch party. The way he's describing it, he must have had something. I have a launch party for every game I bring to the basement. It's something I don't win them.
    6:29
    You don't even win your own tournament? No, I don't. You're the only one playing in it? No, no trophy, no nothing.
    6:34
    Go ahead, Travis. You talk about your experience, and then I'll talk about mine. At the launch party? C. Okay. Let me give the, you want me to give my version or the Tom version? Whichever you prefer. Alright. My Tom version is One second. Okay.
    6:56
    It was fun. Oh. Oh. Yep. It was a lot of fun. Now, so pretty much all we did, you can do, like, the way the launch parties work, you can pretty much do any type of tournament you want to do. You just have to declare it's like a stern army launch party. I think that's what you have to call it. And you get swag that Stern sends in and all that. And we basically, the way that we did it is I ended up being the tournament director and I gave away prizes in between rounds. And we did a, I think it was a target match play, the 30 points or 13 rounds. Because basically 13 rounds is 100% TGP. And for those that don't know what that means it basically just means your point value for the whole tournament is maxed out so if you win the tournament you get maximum amount of points whatever the value is of each player so that's pretty much what we did just three two one zero scoring so if you win you get three points take second you get two points take third one point take last zero points but always always on avengers always on the no no no no oh so you're just having a tournament this was like this was why our launch party was better but go ahead travis so travis first so what i've learned so far the reason travis won is because he was tournament director that's what i that's what i'm taking away from this second avengers launch party doesn't mean you actually play avengers got it that makes so much sense yeah i actually now i think about it i did not get to play avengers one time at the Avengers launch party.
    8:27
    Now that I think about it. Some people do it to where if there's a finals attached to it, you automatically play whatever machine it is. That's the launch party. I've seen that before. We've done tournaments like that too.
    8:39
    So what was your finals game? It doesn't matter. It was something other than. We didn't even have a finals. It was just 13 rounds. Okay. Yep. That's what we wanted to do. You took the District 82 route, didn't you? I did. We had a classics round and we had a modern round. and I put TNA in the classics round, and I'm not sorry.
    9:00
    Is that a hot point on whether or not TNA counts as modern or classics? Well, my version of classics was just trying to keep everything going at the same speed. So I had to get another fast-paced game, and TNA fit the bill. That's fair. All right. Here we are. So, Tom, I'm ready to be blown away at why the Illinois one is so much better. Yeah, I want to know too, Tom. So, well, first of all, I was at the cool music stop bar and grill. And so quit interrupting me. I was reacting to you. I'm listening, active listening. So our launch party, everybody had three attempts at Avengers. and so we did our three attempts and the top four got to play in the playoffs and we played three games of Avengers, the final four, and basically it was just 7-5-3-1 scoring and I ended up winning. Was this a pro or a... This was an LE.
    10:13
    So it's, okay. So, I mean, you're obviously used to yours. Right. So it's but is that so most most of these launch parties, though, I mean, I'm assuming it's they there are a few weeks after the game comes out. So it's is there like you've had like a year to play your game and perfect this game. Is this is it more like the normal launch parties? It's like, OK, we're all trying to learn this. So it seems more even or no. I mean, no, no. There's people like Travis that as soon as the pins on location, he's there every day for two weeks. and then runs the tournament and wins it. There's those of us out there that know the rule set just by watching one reveal stream, and we figure it out from there. I thought that you had to take the glass off and figure out what every switch does to learn the rule set. Sick burn.
    11:04
    I thought you said that was what you – that's like you've got to do that. Well, yeah, you do, but that's where you piece it all together, though. Ah. You know, it's almost like, what's something I can compare this to? It's like a bunch of musical notes all coming together, and then you make a symphony out of it. Right? Yeah, that's a pretty good description, right? I think. Yeah. I mean, I get it. I understand if you have access to take the glass off and start hitting switches, you're going to learn some stuff. And then if you have the pen in your house and you can play it, I mean, PenQuest, Tom, you've been playing Avengers for, I would guess that's probably the most played pin you have in your collection over the last year.
    11:46
    Just due to Pin Quest, not Pin Quest. Pin Clash. Pin Clash, right? I mean, the hours that you've put on that game.
    11:55
    I don't know, but it's funny. Tom, you actually played in LE. Travis doesn't even play Avengers. It's just, yeah, okay. I mean, that's how it goes sometimes. We all can't have launch parties by ourselves, Joel. Yeah. It was great.
    12:11
    So you still got to play the game. Well, the other part is, too, and this is actually, Joel, you bring up a good point when you're talking about, you know, asking about rule sets and stuff like that. It's almost like the listener's got to remember, if you're new to pinball, it's knowing a rule set and then knowing how to put a rule set together when you're playing is two different things. So it's kind of like you're picking your it's kind of like I compare it to chess all the time. You know, you know where the pieces move, but then there's different openings. There's different tactics. And that's kind of the way these modern rule sets are that you kind of figure out the direction to go, which is a big reason why we even do the triple combo segment that we do. So that's kind of how it is. Well, not to spoil the fun, because I think the goal is to do Avengers as the triple combo next episode. but I am curious. You guys just both played this in a tournament.
    13:06
    What was your, I'm curious if you had the same strat, which strategy, what was your strategy? So, well, Travis, you said you didn't even play it though. You didn't even play the strategy though. Okay. I played in a tournament already. So question number one, does the strategy change if it's a pro versus premium?
    13:26
    Not for me. I don't think it does. No, I've used the same strategy. Okay. I've never been on a pro. So, Tom, we'll have you go first. Sure. Tom, what is your – you step up to the game. First off, you played – it sounds like you played this game a lot. Like, during that tournament, you played it multiple times. One, did your strategy change as the tournament went on? Like, did the coils get hot? Nope. Same thing every time. So what is your go-to – what was your go-to strategy? So my go-to strategy was off the bat going for the Iron Man lock on the drop targets on the side. So I would like that. You know, ball save was on. That strategy might change if I don't have ball save on.
    14:13
    So the computer mode, you're hitting your Iron Man lock. You hit that one time, and it just starts your lock. Otherwise, you have to spell the Iron Man letters, right? correct to get the lock yeah okay yeah and i mean you can do that through the game but i that was my first thing and then it was it was basically getting into a gem quest and then stacking it with a multi-ball which gym uh i usually start with excuse me with uh reality so really that was the goal just get multi-ball locked and loaded get into reality start your multi-ball yep and then that's the main goal yeah yep hit some combos too sometimes and bring bring uh you know uh four combos will get you a portal lock so uh and that'll double your score so and if you can bring another another portal lock in there that's going to triple your score so every time you're starting a gem and you got those portal locks going uh you can really add points. So mainly what I was trying to do was just stack things together.
    15:25
    And even I was looking at the grid sometimes and trying to bring some of those bingos into play. So two questions for that. First off, how successful were you with that? Pretty successful. I put up half a billion on my first qualifying game and I just I didn't play after that I just let everybody else play now that was going to be my second question what by that tactic what so half a billion points that's a good that's a solid score so I'm interested because I saw Travis react it sounds like Travis you did not do that uh well it's kind of similar but see my approach my approach for a high score would be different than my approach in match play.
    16:15
    So we were playing match play. So if I'm playing match play and the game's on competition mode, what I'm doing is I'm waiting for that on the grid. I'm waiting for the upper right-hand grid, which I believe is the shield grid, I believe. Shield bonus 2x. Yeah, shield bonus 2x, yeah. I'm waiting for that to be blinking by the time I plunge, And the reason being is because I want that blinking grid to come down to the middle right-hand side, which is the, I think it's like 2X bonus or something like that. I forget off the top of my head. But I want it there. And the reason being is because if I hit that middle target for my super skill shot, that lights a portal lock immediately. So I want that before anything else. So you want that two times multiplier when you get in your mode. Right. Because then if I'm playing on a pro, right, I can spin the disc, get my portal lock, and also get my mode ready at the same time for my quest. It's like a two-for-one shot. And, again, I would probably still do this even without a ball save because that portal lock is so important because that would have been four combos anyways. So to me it's worth setting up even on ball one. So it's almost like if this is a par five and I'm just taking out my driver and I'm just welling away, I'm just going to go for it. Yeah. and then I'm going to do reality and usually I'll just go ahead and just bring one portal lock into that but I mean I guess if I'm feeling frisky I might bring bring in a second one which is just four combos it just really depends on what my opponents did before me so if I'm I don't know if I'm going first I'm probably going to try to bring two portal locks in just to try to put a lot of pressure on but if nobody really did anything on ball one I'll just use one portal lock and just play my reality gym and even with the uh the 2x going all you have to really do is just do the uh black widow ramp gauntlet ramp and you can just do that back and forth back and forth and it's just eight shots and you'll be finished up pretty quick and then you'll get victory laps and stuff like that that's crazy to me the complexity and the depth of the game I assumed this is me being an idiot apparently but I assumed the goal would be one particular gym get the stone put it on something and then capitalize on that but you're not at all like first off it sounds like Tom is all about stacking with multi-ball Travis you're saying no just capitalize on that two times multiplier maybe three times multiplier get into a get into a gym mode I don't even care about placing it anywhere afterwards it's just capitalize on the points during that mode. I don't know. Yeah, well, I mean, we'll get to placement, but it's kind of like this is your beginning tactic. This is your opener. You know what I mean? And a lot of players, if they're not thinking about their opening tactic, they're going to be behind those of us that are thinking about it. And those that are thinking about it and have the flipper skills behind, they are really hard to beat. So your goal is basically you want to do A, B, and C, right, by the end of the game. And if you can do A, B, and C on ball one, even better. But you're doing certain things to set up different things in the game. So if you've ever played against somebody or if anybody out there has ever played somebody and you're like, wow, this guy or girl or whoever, whoever you're playing, that they always come back on like ball two or ball three. There's a reason why that happens. It's because they're setting everything up. You know, whether it's a mode or whether it's a stack like Tom was talking about, all those things are set up. And that's really your goal is just aligning all the pieces right, and then you're going on the offensive. And that's really the goal overall. And mid-game, then to me on Avengers, mid-game is putting the gym somewhere where you want it. And you're putting it somewhere because you're trying to achieve something else. So, like, for me, I'm putting reality, the reality gym, on the Hulk spinner no matter what because I know then I'm going to either have Iron Man multiball or Thor multiball during my, I believe it's the power gym quest, and I can hit that left spinner at least one time every span to basically make the other shots worth more. And plus I'm going to be gaining on my gamma spins as well. Is that all making sense?
    20:33
    Yeah. Yeah, we can. It goes a lot deeper, but yeah. We'll talk a lot more. I applaud Keith and Raymond because this code set in this game is absurd. And I feel like a lot of games out there, there is kind of a default, and we're going to get into this on our current triple combo for today, but I feel like there's kind of normally one or two kind of set paths of tournament play per game. But it just seems like to me Avengers is a whole different animal. It's a whole different animal. It's a lot of fun. And you could have five or six different strategies, and they're all viable strategies according to what your skill set is and how the pin's set up and what the situation is. And that's what makes it a spectacular pin. Awesome. Well, good wins on that. But you won those. And correct me if I'm wrong, you got whoppers for those. Yes or no? Oh, yes. Tasty whoppers are back. So have you seen – are you moving up or down? I'm moving up, Joel. I'm nearly caught up to Tom. He can't talk any trash to me anymore. I only got like 40 more spots to go. Or maybe it's 50. Tom, what are you ranked right now?
    21:48
    51st. Oh, crap. Yeah, I'm 105th right now. Soon to be dropping. What's Neil ranked at? I don't worry about Neil.
    22:00
    For those who are listening, Neil's his kid. No, that's cool. That's all. 51st. Well done. Thank you. Well, that's cool. Was there anything else tournament-wise you guys wanted to elaborate on? No, we're just going to keep plugging away. I mean, all the tournaments are back right now. I mean, unfortunately, Pats, which is pinball at the zoo, it got canceled a couple of days ago or postponed to April. But as far as I know, all the other ones are still a go. Shout out to Raymond for winning the Lucky 13 tournament at District 82 this weekend. Oh, yeah, that was just last night, wasn't it? Yes. Well done. So I'm so tired. That's right. Did you play in it, Tom? I did. I was actually tied for ninth with my son. Oh. And then you let him have it. It was an interesting tournament because the last round involved money.
    22:58
    So if you were the winner in your group in the 13th round, you won something. I won $47, and so did Neil.
    23:11
    Nice. That's big money right there. Yeah, it was pretty cool. If that dentist thing doesn't work out. Yeah, yeah. Professional pinball. Oh, yeah. I'll be raking it in.
    23:24
    Awesome, awesome. Well, a little bit ago, Travis, you said you have the gift that you can watch a reveal stream and immediately know a rule set. So one thing, this kind of was dropped on us last night. I know we talked last podcast about Spooky. They revealed Halloween and Ultraman. But the reveal was literally a little bit of video footage, a bunch of pictures, and then boom. You either buy it or you miss out within two hours. They all sold out. We were talking, hey, when are they going to stream this? Do they even need to stream it? Is the stream going to help? What would it help? You know, they've already sold everything. Well, maybe I missed something, but I noticed I was on vacation last week. I was kind of out in the middle of nowhere. So when I got home late last night, I saw apparently Jack Danger streamed these games on Saturday. I have no idea how much leeway he gave people. But I missed the live stream, and I waited until late last night for him to upload the video. And I think all three of us watched the majority of that video today at some point trying to catch up on these streams. I don't know whoever wants to go first initial thoughts very clear these are initial impressions it's not a review initial impressions some people get very upset about that of the game or the stream yeah well Tom do you want to go first I watched mine like at 2.30 in the morning last night because I was on the road and that's when I got back oh I thought you were about to tell me you watched it on the road no no that would have been bad yeah I don't want to crash because I actually kind of fell asleep watching it. Oh, boy. Well, I was tired. It was 3.30 in the morning, you know. All right, Tom. I was watching it without sound, too, so that was my problem. I mean, to be fair, I don't really like either of the themes, so I don't know if I can really give either of them justice. But from what I saw gameplay-wise, I just wasn't really excited about either of them. But I think that could be due to theme as well.
    25:32
    So just to clarify real quick, do you ever get excited during game reveals? Absolutely. Just check it. All right. So this one, no. How do you like Attack from Mars, Tom?
    25:52
    That was a great game. It's pretty good. Yeah. So, okay. So you're watching it and it's not blowing you away. That's what I'm hearing.
    26:00
    No, I, you know, gameplay wise, it wasn't really blowing me away. LCD screen wise. Yeah, it didn't look good. The LCD did not look good. I'll just come out and say it. I on Halloween. I mean, I'm not an animator or anything like that. And I thought Rick and Morty looked excellent when, you know, in person or online. I think it looks really good. I mean, of course, you know, obviously it's easy to take Rick and Morty because they're using clips from the show. Yeah, right. But seeing what I saw on there, it just, I don't know, it almost looked, I don't know, it just didn't look right to me. I don't know. The Ultraman one looks so much better. Way better. Yeah, it looks so much better. It blew Halloween out of the water. Yeah. I agree. If I'm waking up today and I'm seeing that, I probably, I would want an Ultraman over at Halloween. easily. To me, it's a no contest. Now, it's saying that we don't know how far along this code is. I'm assuming it's not anywhere near finished. Regardless, because I know that they said that a little bit. I know other people are saying that, but this is what they show to the public. I mean, more times than not, and I've heard this from a lot of different companies, they're like, well, the code's incomplete. Well, this is incomplete. Can you imagine a video game that is getting shipped to people and they're showing a reveal stream right and they're saying oh this isn't complete this isn't complete cyberpunk hello does anybody remember that pc game that wasn't complete either and guess what it has dust right now because i don't play it at all so to me this is like one of my biggest pet peeves and yes i'm getting on my soapbox while i'm drinking my beer i just i do not like it when people are like well the code's incomplete. It's like you just sold these pins. You sold out, right? And for thousands of dollars. And it's okay if you still got more to do on the code. That's okay because you always want a game to get updated and all that. But for once, I want a company to be able to say, you know what? This code out of box is complete, but we are going to add additional polish to it as we see fit. I can't imagine buying a video game to where they tell me this isn't complete I can't imagine doing that and that pisses a lot of people off in the gaming community and how it doesn't piss people off in the pinball community I have no idea I'll never understand that and I know it's not an easy thing to do to code when it comes up with role sets it isn't I'm not going to sit here and pretend it's easy but at the same time that's just one of my biggest pet peeves that people just lean back on that And they're like, okay, the game's not complete. It's like, well, you're showing me the game. You want me to pay a complete $9,000, $10,000 for it? I would like a complete game. I mean, that's not too much to ask, right? Absolutely.
    28:58
    Obviously, there's some great games out there that had crappy code when they were revealed. You know, Deadpool, Walking Dead, Batman 66. I mean, like, it happens, and games can improve. So once again, we know this isn't like a review of the game. We're just reviewing what we saw on the stream. And, yes, when you say the code is not complete or we're tweaking it or editing it, but I agree. The animations, the animation style was very much it's the same animation style that Stern used in Avengers. It's taking a flat graphic and it's just moving them. And people went nuts on that. So if they're going to hold stern to that standard, they need to hold spooky to that standard, right? And I get with Halloween, there was video clips sprinkled in, but it's every time a mode started, you were back to, like, just this weird slight movement of the graphic. And then if you hit a shot, maybe you'd see a clip, but then you're back to this graphic.
    29:56
    When I was looking at that, it honestly reminded me of a video that you would see somebody at their house, during Halloween that would project up onto their wall or into their window to where you just see the same thing over and over and over again. I'm just like, I don't know. And I played sound on it earlier today listening to it, and I had to mute it. The sound on it was, it wasn't good. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. And we're talking about Halloween. Ultraman was fine. Ultraman was way better. Yeah.
    30:29
    Honestly, I was getting Meteor vibes. Yeah. It was that bad. It was just constant. I'm just like, I don't know how anybody could stand this. I really don't. Constant piano And then you would hit certain shots and that like and it was just i get that it a key sound in the in the movie but it was it was constant like it was yeah it was it was not appealing and i know the theme just isn't translating to pinball i don't think from what i saw there because when you look at a horror theme right yeah and you look at pinball you want it to be campy. And I know this is probably, I guarantee nearly everybody else is saying the same thing on podcasts, on videos, on reviews. But that's kind of what pinball is. We're kind of in a nerdy hobby. And when you look at Michael Myers, you don't think nerdy. You know what I mean? And it just, I don't know. When I see it all lit up, like it's almost like a Vegas show with all the lights and everything. It just doesn't strike me as Halloween. It just doesn't. So I don't get that vibe. Now on Ultraman, it makes a little bit more sense. Yeah, it looks dope. So it's amazing. It's amazing. Those two things look are completely different, yet they're in the same ecosystem, and it is completely different. 100%. And Ultraman reminded me very much of Batman 66 or Elvira in terms of the way that they incorporated the video clips. You know, they have different graphics, and then I like that every mode has a different graphic, but then they, it seems like really they just have way more video clips and the clips are campy. Like it's, it's comical. It's, they're, they're fun to see. Now I still feel like audio there's, there's maybe it was the way that the audio was captured or the audio just hasn't been touched. But to me, visuals and audio is, is very important in a pen. And I know when I added direct audio to Mando, when I started streaming that, like so many people in chat are like, holy cow, the music is fantastic in this pen and I just don't see anybody getting excited about the music from either Ultraman or Halloween um to the point where it's like I almost don't want direct capture when I'm playing that game because I don't I don't you know listening to that ding piano for two and a half hours straight yeah yeah at one point that soundtrack was playing for three and a half straight minutes and I sat here and I was just wondering what am I doing with my life still having this play. Like, I had to mute it. It just, but it's just, it's one of those weird things that I almost feel like that game, and it's so weird because they're polar opposites. It's like Halloween just takes itself way too serious, and it almost has to because that is the theme itself. But then it's like, when I look at the play field and I see the three Mike Myers just kind of hiding out behind the hedge and just peeking out, I mean, it's like, it's almost unintentional comedy seeing that neck go. Especially during Multiball when they all show up.
    33:32
    This is like a Vegas show with the lights going off and them just flapping back and forth. It works great in Ultraman. That's what I didn't realize. That bad guy apparently, that creature would duplicate himself to confuse Ultraman. So it plays in the story of why there's three of them and why there could be multiple ones. I mean, is there a movie from Halloween which Mike Myers duplicates himself and we just haven't seen that one? No, I mean, I would say art, cabinet art, both games, fantastic, incredible. But just as of right now, and this could all be improved, but as of right now, I don't think any of us are in love with what we're seeing on the LCD screen. and audio, audio and Halloween, but audio and Ultraman was a lot better. I think it could, I hope, I mean, it could improve even further, but I don't know. I mean, those are easy to talk about. Tom, what are your thoughts? Well, what about this? Okay. Well, because we haven't touched base on this, so I would ask Tom the same question. Like, what about how it shoots? We haven't even talked about the design. That's the biggest thing. Why do I always have to answer the tough questions? Hey, if you want to answer the easy one, you know, you want to put a bow up on the music and the LCD, your final thoughts there? Yeah, yeah. I mean, what do you think about the pumpkin on the play field, Tom?
    35:06
    It's a nice light show inside of it. Okay. No, I mean, it's – there's – the ramps, you know, you got the ramp with the diverter in the middle, and, you know, you're either going to the mini play field or back to your left flipper. What I don't understand is when you hit the ball in the scoop, Why does it take so long for the ball to return back to the right flipper? It just seems like it takes forever.
    35:43
    Yeah. Did you get that when you were watching footage? Yeah, absolutely. So it's the elevator, and they have talked about maybe, because apparently the way the elevator mech works is while it's raising, because somebody had that, is there any way while it's raising if another ball comes that it would break something? And they said, no, there's some sort of flap. and somebody said, yes, if they feel like that time was too long, that they could technically stage a ball. You could somehow, like I don't know how they do it, but if you could stage a ball, then it would speed that up because the moment it registers in the scoop, it would start kicking it up. Well, didn't they do that in Rick and Morty? Yeah, they had a ball staged right there. And that was my big complaint when I did a YouTube video, that how long it was taking. And some people are like, well, the same thing was done in Rick and Morty. and I was just thinking to myself, no. I mean, once you hit that portal, the ball is almost coming right back out. And when I was first playing the pin, when I was first playing Rick and Morty, I'd almost forget about that, and I would lose the ball because it was happening so fast. Yeah. Which is the goal, right? Right, right. Yeah. So I don't know if they're, you know, is that intentional? Is that the mechanism? I, that I don't know, but. No, I think it's 100% intentional because of the way that they do the light show. Yeah. And, you know, doing the sounds and doing the pulse of the lights. And even then, I mean, even Jack was missing that a couple of times. I mean, we were, I was talking about that too, that there was people on the, on the videos that were taking them at shows. They were missing that. And everybody's like, well, you know, it's, we'll get to, used to it eventually, but let's not kid ourselves. Jack is the pinball streamer for Stern and for everybody else. So it's not like this is his first time to play a pinball machine, and he was still missing those cues. So I'm thinking to myself, what is a casual going to do with this on location? And how frustrating could that get? That's what Bug and Luke said, though, is the whole reason they're doing this mech is they feel for novice and casual players, when you hit a scoop, that ball comes back so fast that you don't have time to react. So that's why they like this idea with the subway system. So in their mind, this subway elevator system is actually going to be easier for people. But what I saw in the videos is the plastics are, they have like faces. The plastics are so large that they cover the in lanes. So you really don't even see the ball until it's, they give you a little warning with the light, but you don't see that ball until it's really close to your flipper. So there's no visual, I mean, they're cueing it with the light, but really not. Like you don't see the speed of the ball. So would you get used to it? Yes. But would you get used to it if you owned it? Yes. But would a novice who steps up to it to play? Like, that's the thing in my mind. If my wife stepped up to that game and hits the scoop, I don't care. Like, there's no way she's going to realize those blinky lights are indicating to her that a ball is about to come out. No. Like, I'll be real with you. I think I will miss it, even with the blinky lights, because there's so much other stuff going on, because the same thing happens even during a multi-ball. And the problem is, again, people are comparing this to Rick and Morty. Well, Rick and Morty, you can visually see the ball coming out of the scooper or out of the hole real quick down the end line. Like, you can see it. This you cannot see, and you have to get that timing down. The problem is the only way you can get that timing down is if you have a considerable amount of time on this pen. So, of course, everybody from Spooky was going to make it look easy because they designed it. Like, they know it's there. But, yeah, I think just in practicality, I don't see how that benefits anybody really when you can't actually see the ball. And it's just suddenly there. I mean, you have to react to it. Yeah. I mean, maybe they can stage a ball. Maybe they can make it better. I mean, maybe that can be tweaked. Maybe it can be improved. But I feel like that is a unique mech. And I feel like they did it purposely trying to make it easier. And I don't necessarily know, at least visually, I don't know if they've achieved that.
    39:51
    That's kind of a wait and see situation. And we'll have to wait for an owner who has access to it a lot to really tell you whether or not they like it or they hate it. Because it almost seems I feel like there were times in the streams that I saw somebody, you know how we're so when we play, we're almost impatient because we just out of habit now flip through animations. Yeah. And I feel like Jack or somebody during the stream, like just instinctually, like the ball's gone. Where is it? Flip through the like. They're like flipping through the animations trying to get the thing going, and you're waiting for the balls to spit out. Yeah, I mean, it's one of those things, too. Design-wise, it's okay to have stops, too. Sure. And I think what's kind of happened here is Spooky has kind of put it out there that this pen has flow. Like, they are the ones that put it out there. Yeah. And, you know, we talked about it before, the last podcast, that we were trying to figure out how exactly this pen would have flow. and after watching it, I'm still trying to figure out exactly how this pin has flow with the way that they were describing it. When you say it has flow like the Mississippi, you know, I take it to mean you're going to have something like an Elwin pin where you're going to have all these different combos. You're going to have everything. Or a Rewind pin. Yeah, exactly. And to me, I mean, even like a Pat Lawler pin, like Pat Lawler is a perfect example of somebody that can have flow but have the proper stop and go as well. like his games that are notorious for that. But when I look at this, it's just kind of like there's, what, maybe three shots that legitimately come back to the flipper that aren't subway-based, I think. Maybe four. I might be missing one. I'm looking at it right now, and most shots stop or get you in the subway. I mean, if their idea of flow is I hit a shot and it eventually gets to my flipper, then, yeah, most of their things do that. but flow is in, I'm going to hit this shot, and it's going to zip around and pick up speed and combo into my next shot. Not so much. One of their modes was combo-based, and we didn't see anybody ripping combos with that at all. The most combos I probably saw was like three shots, if that. Iron Maiden has a six-way combo that's like mint. You know what I mean? This will not have that, and that is okay. It's okay for a pin not to be super flowy. It's okay for it to be stop and go. It's okay for some of the shots just to be lightning fast, and then some of your other things slow it down. That's okay. But the problem is it wasn't exactly advertised as that. So when we see what we see, it's just, I don't know. It's like it's just different. Like I think if you listen to the way that they described it and then you watch this, you might be thinking you're looking at a completely different pin than what was described, in my opinion. I don't know. Maybe I'm way out there. Well, they said it's their flowiest game. So do you feel that it's more flowier? Do you feel it's flowier than Rick and Morty? I mean, do you feel it's flowier than – that's not the right – there's no way that's the right word – than TNA? Or, I mean, maybe they are right if they feel the ball is just back at you compared to their other games. Compared to TNA, yeah. I mean, TNA is another one. I wouldn't say it has flow because it's just two orbits. I mean, you can get going nuts with it if you want to. I mean, like we talked about a second ago, technically all pens could have flow. But I think that this is a buzzword in pinball that's used, probably overused, as much as World Under Glass, as much as talking about all these assets and all that. I think it's just a buzzword that's just overused, And I think this is one of the situations where we might have got a little carried away with it. And it's okay. If this pin does not have flow, that's still okay. It still doesn't make it a bad pin. But when I look at this and I see the shots, I visually do not see that looking at this play field. And when I'm trying to think about how I'm going to approach it, what shots I'm going to take, what I'm going to try to exploit, it's not combinations. I'll tell you that right now. Yeah. Yeah, I will. So to harp back to the elevators, I can think of multiple examples where. So, like, first off, Jurassic Park, Jurassic Park, it has that up post in the flip in the in lane to stop a ball and then drops it down to your flipper. Right. So it's like you see it. It's stopped. It delivers it to the flipper in a time like you can react to that. There's other games that have magnets up, you know, roller games has a magnet above the upper flipper will stop the ball. you see it, it can kind of tee it up for you. So I don't know. There's other games that do things like that, to tee up a ball to a flipper in a very nice presentable way. And, yeah, I think it could be done, but I don't know. I don't necessarily know if these elevators were the way to go. But we'll see. We'll have to – we need to play. All three of us need to play to know that. What do you guys think about the ramps? Because I do have an issue with one of the ramps. I was talking to you guys about it earlier. Correct. There were some rejects. There were a decent number of rejects that I saw that I was surprised by, and I think that's what you're hinting at. Yeah, on that center ramp. Yeah. I guess I don't know if they call it the right ramp or the center ramp, but it's the ramp behind the drop targets.
    45:22
    And I was really surprised by that because doesn't that have a diverter? It does. And until we see what the mech is, I don't want to blame it on a diverter that's malfunctioning or doing something weird that's keeping the ball. But it seemed like there were shots that looked clean that came back. And the last thing you want is for that to be on your center ramp because if it's coming back, there's a chance it could be straight down the middle. Oh, yeah. Well, that center ramp is just, I mean, what do you think, Tom, with the drop targets and all that? Yeah, I mean, it could just be like a timing issue in the code or something. But it did that on both pens. It did that on both Halloween and Ultraman. Yeah, I mean, that's true. So, I mean, it could just be the mechanism, you know, some with the positioning of the diverter.
    46:16
    Maybe the gap back there is not, maybe it's really tight, and that's why if you don't hit the curve just right, it rejects back.
    46:27
    Good point. Yeah. It could be that. I mean, we'll say the left ramp. The left ramp looks like it's butter. Like, you could hit it all day long. It's the massive opening. I mean, it takes about three and a half, four seconds for it to return back to the left flipper. So, you've got plenty of time to react. I mean. And that 180 ramp. The 180 ramp that spits it right up into that lower plate, the middle play field. That one, one, I didn't realize. I don't think anybody realized that was there. What? Because you, well, you saw that in pictures? I didn't see that in pictures. Yeah, I pointed it out. Well, I didn't see it in pictures, but I pointed it out that there's a 180 ramp. Oh, well, that ramp, that looks fun. Like that looks quick. It looks smooth. And just, boom, you're up in that play field and you're immediately playing. You've got to react to that shot. I mean, I applaud that. That's a good-looking shot. That looks fun. And they mentioned in that play field there's four different ways that you can exit that play field. Or maybe it's three, but you basically could. And there's only one flipper. It's like you can drain out to the left, you can hit up to the right, and it drains out. You could hit it back down the 180 ramp. And then I'm assuming lower right as well. Yep, back to the shooter lane. That one I don't get, though. Like, why is that one there? Is there something in the code for that? Because it looked like every time it dropped back to the shooter lane, like, it would just get plunged back in. And nothing was lit after that. I didn't really notice anything about that. So I'm not quite understanding that. I don't know. But I'll applaud that. And maybe that's a good idea. Real quick, you know, we can be critical, but maybe we should go around and just, what's something we liked, you know? Tom, what did get you going? What were you excited about? The pumpkin.
    48:12
    The butt pretzel. Just because it's called the butt pretzel or you actually liked the way it was? That's what they called it. I know. But did you enjoy the way it shot? I mean, yeah, what did you like about it?
    48:24
    Yeah. Tom, what do you like about butt pretzels? uh they're buttery smooth i don't know i mean i can i can help you a long time i'll say what i like about it and then you can follow up okay sounds great i'll butter up your butt pretzel here we'll get going so one of the things i did see that i actually really did like was that i think this was off the plunge so it's like a skill shot to where you could lock the ball directly to the right yes behind that drop target and then it acts not as a multi-ball but as an extra ball in play so that i did like that i like the idea of a skill shot leading to something like that and allowing you to have that access early on i think that's a really cool idea and i like how that's implemented but bug did say as of right now if you lock a ball in that little nook as of right now if you drain, it spits out that ball. Right. So it's acting like a ball save. Right, which they should keep that because he did mention that they were deciding whether or not to have that. They should keep that because if you're going to have that be a skill shot and you've earned that, do not take that away because that's a fun skill shot to hit. It is, but it's also, I mean, that's just like if they keep that, that will be absolute. I mean, why would, from a tournament or any, why would you not make that your priority immediately? Like, get your ball, I mean, so many games, right, tournament-wise, you guys are all about hitting certain targets to light your ball save or outline ball save or something, you know, building some security. But if you can stick a ball there that guarantees, hey, if you drain, you immediately get your ball back, like, I would assume that will become a priority. But, like, to me, I look at that as if you don't just spit it out when you drain, You could make that like a lock stealing opportunity, which is something I enjoy.
    50:17
    You would, wouldn't you? I would. You savage. But I'm not a tournament player. You just like shun him. But you could, right? I mean, in tournament mode, fine. You don't have that. But you could also make it where it's a you have to, if you lock it, great, but then you have to hit the shot to actually get it to use it, right? All right. theoretically, if you have a launch party with Halloween at your house, you can go ahead and do lock stealing in your one-man tournament. I freaking love lock stealing, man. Like lock stealing and taxi is so great. TNA is so great. It's awesome. I mean, it's cool. Yeah, it's fine. It's just the only reason why I wouldn't do it at this point, and I'd like to hear Tom's opinion on this, is just because to me this type of lock is if you earn it off the steal shot. And I think the way to create the proper risk-reward ratio to this is that you don't have a ball save on. If there's no ball save, then you've got to decide if you want to really take that shot on the fly because it's on a timer then. Like, that's the way I would do it. And I wouldn't have it be lock-stealing. I think you said something about it. I 100% agree, Travis. I like that idea. So you're saying you just have to hit it. You got whatever. You got three seconds off the plunge. You hit that shot. Otherwise, I think the way it's coded right now is if you hit it multiple times, eventually five. Hit it five times, eventually it'll catch your ball. And then after it's caught your ball, though, theoretically, any other time you hit that drop target, it's going to spit that ball out. Yeah, I think it's five times the start of multi-ball that's there, the way that I understood it. Oh, I thought it was always – I didn't think there – I mean, maybe I'm totally wrong. I didn't know that there was a mode or anything based around that. I thought it was just the little storage unit for you. Yeah, I thought that's what I heard him say. But, again, I was muting the stream due to the music. So I might have misinterpreted that as well. But, I mean, I like the idea of that. I mean, Tom, what would you do with that type of shot? If you didn't have a ball save on and that shot you could lock a ball in there for an immediate multi-ball or a multi-ball to hit down with the target, what would you do? Or a ball save? I liked your idea of not having the ball saved, but probably locking a ball and hitting the target.
    52:39
    Yeah. Yeah, that might be the way to go. Well, theoretically, right, like Guardians of the Galaxy has the orb shot. I mean, Deadpool has the drops. I mean, there are other games that could do something like this, like, hey, if you sneak a ball in quick, we'll just keep it there. And then you can, I mean, And obviously this is not the first game to have a drop target that's going to hold the ball. But the place where it is, I got to give props. And this is something we talked about. I got to give props. There's some good ideas. There are some good ideas in this pen. I think that is one of them. Well, you could code a lot of things around that too. You could have your super jackpots based out of there. You could have some type of play field multiplier based out of there, like some type of hurry up based out of there. I mean, you could do a lot of things with that type of shot. So I do like that that's there, and I do like the right orbit shot that's right there as well. I like that combination of things together. Sure. Did you see where it fed, like when it's holding there and it just drops the target down, where that ball trickles out into?
    53:44
    I didn't see that. I thought I saw it just kind of go off the right swing once. Okay. I'm trying to remember. But, I mean, I do like that. I like the idea of the drop targets as well. I just don't like where they're placed. I mean, obviously, where they're placed at. Oh, you're talking in the middle, the middle back towards the camera. Oh, yeah, and they realized it as soon as they put it on there. That's why they have the airball deflector on there. Yeah. Like, it's guaranteed you're going to get airballs all day long just because of that geometry alone. But I like the idea of it. I just don't like the location of it. Tom, you were. no well going back to the travis was talking about the right orbit you know hitting that right orbit and then hitting the uh the area with the drop target would be cool but i i remember from the stream that uh they they did like a skill shot where the target dropped and you could hit it up there i think jack hit it but the middle target yeah the middle target yeah and the three three bank of drop targets. That's a pretty cool idea. I mean, there's some good things to the game. It's just putting it all together, I guess.
    54:58
    Now that you talk about it, that could be really neat, where it's like, okay, if you hit the right orbit, it'll drop, like, it would drop the drop target automatically or something. Like, you could combo something, or, like, if you hit this certain combo, so instead of having to hit that five times, if you do this combo and this combo, it'll automatically drop the target and then you can sneak it in or like you could do some cool stuff there but i i agree the thread the needle shot so the three drop targets in the back there's a there's a deal right now in the code you have to hit those drop targets down and you have to hit that ramp every time you hit the center ramp it goes to the left after you've hit the center ramp five times it spits it up to the highest upper play field but what they were saying right now in the code is if you hit the middle drop target down and then you hit the ball through those without hitting the other drop targets and it goes up the center ramp it'll automatically go so there's a way to sneak up to that upper upper play field which is neat i mean that's a great idea and there's there's a ton of games deadpool once again that have three drop targets that you could get creative with where if you hit one and sneak things by you get rewarded extra for that i mean there's i like it i think that's i think that's a great idea yeah that's a that's pretty good nuance to have on it I mean, that right there is pretty good. I think I didn't really notice. I might have looked over it. I didn't really notice too many modes that were based off the drop targets, though.
    56:21
    Did you guys see anything like that? I might have missed it. Maybe there was something in there. But I would have to think that you could do something with those three drop targets and with the drop target to the right and even with your scoops to the left to make a mode based off that. Oh, go ahead. No, I remember one of the interviews that Charlie said that I think all the drop targets are RGB, and they were talking about color coding in them, and so there's got to be some kind of mode.
    56:53
    Yeah, and I saw that on Ultraman, and it looked pretty dope. The lighting is great. Yeah, that looked really cool. I did like that touch. But I feel like the lighting works really well on Ultraman because, once again, it's campy. It's, like, fun. like give me all the bright colors while like halloween i don't need i don't know it's they want to give you a lot of light but at the same time theme wise you can't go rainbow you know with halloween you gotta keep to some a lot of orange yeah i think if like i said if you got a halloween and you're thinking about trying to flip it i would do it sooner rather than later because i got a feeling the more that these get out i don't think it's going to be near as popular there's Ultraman. Just don't. I assume you will. I think, and maybe, unless there's anything else you guys want to talk, my only other little things that I, I saw the big knife. I never saw the big knife that covers the shooter lane.
    57:48
    And it's basically like a mirror blade. Like, that's a really cool touch. I think bells and whistles, they threw a lot in there. One mode that I thought was very creative that Bug mentioned was he said one mode, it lights three shots that are green. And if you hit one of the shots, it becomes red. And if you hit, if you get enough red shots, the mode's over. So, like, red shots are bad, but you have to hit all three green shots. And then after you do that, it'll light three different shots green. Same thing. And I think once you do that, like, three times or complete three sets, you win. But that idea of, like, I have to hit this shot, but then if I accidentally hit that shot again, it's actually bad. yeah and but they did mention something in there that one of the multi balls actually it it kind of covers that up as well to where a shot that you need for multi ball will end up being a bad shot in the mode and i wasn't a fan of that as soon as he mentioned that i was like oh you know because you want your you want your stuff to go together i'm going to botch this word but i'm going to try to go for it anyways but you want it to go send what how do you pronounce this I can't even say it. Stack. No.
    59:00
    Synergy. I can't pronounce that word right now. Synergy. Synergy was the word you were struggling with? Well, I don't know. Synergy. Yeah, see? That's a tough word right now. You want them to go together well. I get you. I mean, that's the thing. If you have a multiball, you have a mode, you want them to complement each other. And then the information he was giving is that this multiball and this mode wouldn't complement each other because you could hit a shot for multiball that you're supposed to hit to progress in there, but now you're getting penalized in the mode. And I'm like, I'm sorry. To me, you shouldn't be coding games like that. Rulesets should not penalize you for taking something and stacking it on together. I think they should always go well together. So if you want that mode to work as intended, just lock out multiball, kind of like a Boba Fett in Star Wars. It's almost like its own little thing. I think something like that would work well to where all of a sudden you're trying to hunt Michael Myers or you're trying to do something, you know, to where you can't bring a multiball into it. So that part I didn't really understand, I guess. But, again, I mean, that's just – maybe that's just different philosophies and how a rule set should be, you know. I'm not going to say that I'm right and that he's wrong. I mean, it's just how it is.
    60:17
    Well. What about upper play still, Joel? We haven't talked about that yet. The upper, upper play field. They look fun. I mean, that second one looks fun to shoot. I mean, it goes quick. It returns to the flipper quick.
    60:34
    You know, to be honest, like Mando, there are times that I get in that play field that it's just like I'm not the best at it. I hit a shot and it's gone or I completely whiff. I mean, you want to get to an upper play field that's fun to shoot. And I think it is neat. I think it looks fun to shoot. um so i mean even like the scoop shots on the left like okay picking out some of those to jason like i bet those could be fun um i i have no doubt i think i would enjoy i think i could enjoy shooting this pin but i think i'd mute it i think i'd shut it down i want i would i would leave the sound on for ultraman you know i i would have fun shooting the second upper play field i don't think I could say that I'd ever have fun shooting the left side of this game into the scoops and the targets I don know Tom would you have fun shooting those No No Yeah He was so much in thought too Yeah, I really thought he would be like, I mean, maybe. No, he's just, no. No. Why not, Tom? I was just kidding. He would have a lot of, okay, Tom, tell us how much fun you would have shooting those three scoops and those three targets. Oh, loads. Loads of fun. No, I mean, you know, without playing it, it's just so hard to, I mean, we're watching gameplay footage. I will speak up for you, Tom, because you have so many games. You are a high-ranked player. You've played thousands upon thousands of games. And this is what I try to talk to people about, that when you have a database to go from, from years and years of experience across all eras of pens, you know instinctively what's going to shoot well because everything is similar. You know what I mean? Like everything is pretty similar. This is definitely different, though, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I like that they're trying something different, you know, and not necessarily going with the norm.
    62:45
    So which part's the different part? Well, the saucers on the left-hand side. And how fun are those to shoot? I don't know. I've never shot them. What pins have you – okay, you have, like, 40 pins behind you. Yeah. What pins out of there are you excited to just shoot at the scoop?
    63:04
    Let me think about that. Exactly. Shadow. Yeah, there's two scoops. Right. So? Any other game? I'm excited. I mean, scoops can be fun. Twilight Zone. Yeah. There's two scoops. Yeah. Right. But why is that scoop fun on Twilight Zone? That's a good example. Because it starts modes and I get points when I do that. Right. And how does that upper scoop? How do you got to hit it?
    63:37
    You got to hit a ramp or, yeah, you got to hit a ramp. You got to hit a combo and a smaller flipper. Yep. And you've got to thread the needle. That's what makes it fun. So depending on how your play field layout is, you have to make that shot fun. Like the shot on its own as just a scoop isn't necessarily fun. It's like me. Like I love Guardians of the Galaxy. Sure. But I'm not going to sit here and blow smoke up your guys' asses either and tell you that that scoop right there is just awesome to hit. You know what I mean? Yeah, sure. You've got to give reason for it. And that's the only thing is I think the shots on their own on the left-hand side wouldn't be fun to shoot, just in my opinion. But like you said, depending on how it's coded, that's where the code and the rule set has to make it fun. You have to give reasons to explore that side of the play field. Absolutely.
    64:30
    Absolutely. I mean, without question. But in saying that, they could code it in a fun way, and it might be fun.
    64:40
    yeah yeah look at look tom is you're giving me a question that i mean come on what about you joel how much do you enjoy shooting scoops really i mean oh okay so to be like when i own the world cup soccer and you need to get multi-ball going that scoop is brutal but then when you hit it it feels great tna tna there are times that like just give me the scoop and then You hit it, and it feels great. I understand Metallica, Guardians of the Galaxy. You got all this stuff lined up, and it's like, just hit the freaking scoop. Deadpool, knockout blow. You got the heartbeat. Hit the scoop. But I understand a lot of times the scoop is start a mode or finish a mode or it's an ending shot. But the weirdest thing to me in the scoops that I'm seeing in the Spooky game, it's like I'm just so used to you hit the ball, you hit the shot, and it gets rocketed back at you, and you don't get that. You don't get that with the spooky game. And when the whole left side is scoops, I get it. I scoops me. Well, that's my fear of it is, like, every scoop shot, and I can't believe we're getting deep into scoop shots of pinball, but here we are. But every shot that you just described right there, Joel, has something surrounding it that makes it worth something, that makes you care about that shot. And when you start caring about that shot, that's what makes it fun. And my fear is you have so many of those here, it's like, I don't know. You can hit certain ramps, and they're fun to hit, even if they're not scoring anything. It's just fun to see the ball zip around, whether it's doing a loop-de-loop. You know what I mean? But with a scoop, it has to do something other than just the ball going in there.
    66:29
    I get it. And once again, this is all just us judging from the stream. Maybe it feels great. Maybe, I don't know. I get what you're saying, and maybe that's, we've gone on about this for a while, so maybe we need to wrap it up on Spooky. Yeah, we need a two-hour podcast about Scoops. Nobody else is going to go this deep. Yeah, let's, we'll get Keith on for that, because doesn't Keith hate Scoops, Keith Owen? Because it, like, slows the game down? Yeah. He probably has a lot of opinions. I'm willing to bet Halloween's probably his favorite design pen. He loves those Scoops, but. Well, I will say that the middle upper play field, I think it does look really good. I really do like how they did that. I like the combinations on there, and I like the finishing shot along that little catwalk or whatever it is to go across. I guess they're calling it the third upper play field, but I think that's well done. Is there a banging up there too? Because when the ball goes over it, it just stops. I mean, it looks cool. I think that looks pretty cool. There's some really cool, and that's the good part, is if there are some really cool things with the right amount of code,
    67:32
    you could do some really cool stuff with what's here. And the same thing about the assets or the art or the LCD that we're talking about or the music, you know, personally, I would feel that these are all things that they could improve on. And maybe we're just, you know, maybe we'll all be biting our tongues a year from now, you know. I don't know. I mean, it still scoops. I have to make one comment about the stream, and I'm not trying to be critical of Jack. Let me throw my sunglasses for Joel here. Oh, boy. Watching the stream, I mean, I stream pinball as well, and I am no Jack Danger. I get that. And I understand doing a reveal stream, the pressure behind a reveal stream has to be insane. I know Fliptronic, when they revealed Raza, talking to them afterwards and before, I mean, just crazy stressful. But what I will tell you is I've only been streaming a year, and the amount of technology that you can get to make streaming easier and more consistent is there. And it just bothered me as a streamer to see his cameras dropping out, to see his audio dropping out. And I understand technology. You can't control everything. But there are things that he could do that he could make his life so much easier. and I just don't know why he doesn't do them. And even Tom, Tom streams, and I'm telling you right now, the capture card that Tom uses and that I use is reliable and consistent. It's the same one Carl D'Angelo uses. It's the same one Neil deGray uses. Why he hasn't gone that route, I don't know, and maybe there is something there. But it just sucks when you're watching a review stream and you actually run into those technical difficulties. I feel for the guy, but at the same time, he could make his life easier.
    69:24
    He set up, he posted pictures on Facebook. He had cameras set up on both machines. So instead of putting together a mobile rig and just wheeling it over to, I just punched my mic, just wheeling it over to the other game. I don't know. It's just, it's obvious there were bandwidth issues. That's getting really technical, but I just, I would love to encourage the guy. There are people that will gladly help him technically that could improve his stream if he asks. But I understand he is the number one pinball streamer, so maybe he doesn't feel he needs to. Maybe. I don't know. It sounds like I think Shroud is about to be the number one pinball streamer pretty soon. Maybe. So I don't – once again, I'm not here to just crap on Jack Danger, but it's just – yes, I understand. I take pride in my stream. So does Tom. there are people in this hobby that would happily help him. See, notice he doesn't name my stuff because mine is all over the place. You stream? I can't stream. I don't know how you guys do it. Like, I've tried to stream pinball before, and I'm just like, I can't do it. Well, I keep him there with my jokes. I will give one thing to Jack. I mean, he is certainly probably the most entertaining pinball streamer. I mean, he's got all the personality in the world. Absolutely. Yep. You know, I mean. Man, you hear that, Mr. Scoot? Tom just shit all over you. Yeah.
    70:52
    Well, yeah. He's got Tom absolutely, or sorry, Jack absolutely, his personality is wide. I just got myself kicked off the pinball network right there. Yeah, yeah. But that's okay. So is that like a technology thing or is it an internet thing? Because I honestly don't know because I don't stream it. The camera cutting out is a bandwidth issue. He is using USB capture devices because he's using a laptop. And I had those problems, too, when I was using just cam links and stuff. Yes. You had it. Your camera has dropped out multiple times in this podcast. Well, that's because I'm not using USB. It's because I got a power saver on it, and I'm too lazy to turn it off. Okay, so it's just traps. It sucks. But, no, anybody who streams that initially went down the route of USB, you have issues. It is a problem. And Carl D'Angelo has been amazing. Like, I have had personal messages with him. And it's like, hey, which one of these do you recommend? And he goes, I ditched USB years ago, and I'm telling you, you should do it. Did you just hear Joel just name drop right there? Oh, I will. Carl D'Angelo is a saint. Carl is the man when it comes to streaming. George, don't panic flip. Manu, MPT3K, there are people out there that know the technology. Jordan, Electronic, they know the technology. I don't even know what I'm asking you. Have you seen their streams? Of course you have. Their streams are, like, clean. They're absurdly good. Both of you guys have clean streams, too. I know we're getting off base, but, my God. As me as a viewer, if I'm watching pinball, you know, honestly, I have a hard time watching certain people if they're not.
    72:38
    Oh, Tom. Fine, fine. Either way, Trove. I was going to say, okay, I have a hard time watching some people play pinball if they're not very good. So if you're not very good, which is fine. That's perfectly fine. Like me. Yeah, I get it. Well, it's kind of like I'm not going to go to a men's slow pitch league and sit on the bleachers and watch them play. You know what I mean? That's fair, yeah. So it's like if I'm going to sit there and watch your stream, you either need to be really, really good because I'm interested to see excellent play. Look at Tom. Oh, Tom.
    73:16
    You're cracking me up. You either need to be able to play really, really good or your stream needs to be super clean and you're entertaining to talk to or to listen to. And that's the things that you both have. I enjoy watching Tom play because he has so much unintended humor. It's awesome. And he plays well. He's a good player. Yeah, yeah. And then, Joel, I enjoy watching you because you interact. And you're actually, your skills have increased so much over the year. I mean, because you're playing and you're applying and stuff like that. I'm interested in seeing. Now, if I watch a stream and it's kind of in and out and then they're not really talking much and then there's kind of flipping around. It's like I could go down to my local arcade and stand right behind somebody and watch that. I don't want to sit on my couch and watch that. So, I mean, it's tough. Streaming is tough. It's not easy. Streaming is very tough. That's the thing. I understand, and Jack says that during his reveal streams, that he's like, you can tell all he cares about is the quality. Like, that is his focus. And normally he says that. Like, his level of play drops drastically because he's just – he wants to make sure the stream is good. but that's what I'm telling him. There's, I don't know. There are some things that he could do in my opinion that could make his life way easier. And, and I'm just surprised that he hasn't, he hasn't tried that, but he probably doesn't run into those issues though. That is HQ. Of course, I don't watch any of the streams, so I don't know. I'm not, I'm not sure. Yeah. There goes his camera. All right. Well, we've, we've talked a lot about, so spooky talk. That was our, that was our main meat and potatoes. So let's roll through these real short, real quick. What's up? Did you hear about Deep Root? Yeah, exactly. Is that where we're going? Deep Root.
    75:04
    You know what? I don't want to say anything. Tom, what do you think about Deep Root? Or what have you noticed? Or what have you seen?
    75:13
    It looks like they're done. I mean, Robert Mueller took down his Facebook account and the Deep Root Facebook account is gone. And it's just not looking promising. I mean, why would you take that stuff down?
    75:38
    You know, nobody that has a business. I have a business. you know, I wouldn't take it down unless something really bad was happening. I mean, if you, but that's the thing. At this point, if it was an accident, if something happened, it's very easy to put out any bit of media to say, like, don't worry, guys, the website's down because we're doing maintenance, you know. But it has been nothing. We have had, there is nothing. So it's just such a bizarre saga because it's it's almost like satire at this point that we expect any type of correspondence to come our way to kick the can down the road. And then Robert not only kicks the can down the road, he picks it up, puts it in his car and drives it across the freaking county and just drops it off. Well, and to come out so arrogant to all the other companies and how they were going to trash them and, you know, and come out with nothing is just, it's sad. It's a shame. At the end of the day, I mean, I feel really bad for the people who are working for them, you know. I mean, we will say as of this podcast, it's not 100% confirmed. No, it's not. We don't know. But, like Tom said, if you're – The signs are pointing that way. Yeah, if you're taking down everything, if you're saying, hey, you know, we can't talk about our pen that you guys have all prepaid for that was supposed to be out months ago, like that doesn't look good. That's not a good look. And I feel for everybody that works there or that's still working there, but at the same time, it's like you've taken people's money now. Yeah. They're waiting to see something. But at the same time, I was shocked that people even gave their money. back in, what was it, December, I think, when it was? Yeah. It's funny. Unless you're buying a game through a distributor or it's an established company, don't throw your money at these startup companies to try to get a game that may or may not be built. Why does that keep happening in pinball over and over and over again? It keeps happening. I think people are trying to reach for something. different and and just magical and that's why people do that i people love pinball yeah yeah i played that rosa houston in 2019 and magical would not be the word i would use to describe my experience on there i don't know it didn't but it did look better on the fliptronic stream from what my understanding was, at least the ramp, like the ramp shot. Because you experienced the ramp, and it wasn't from – It was the most fun I ever had, Tom Graff playing pinball. Oh, I could tell. It was awesome. My trip to Houston was well worth it just for that.
    78:46
    Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what – there's really nothing else to say. I mean, well, it's a wait-and-see situation, and it is – We could dive deep into, you know, I don't, I mean, I'm all for more pinball and I'd love more startup. Like I'd love companies to try to do it. I mean, I applaud Spooky. I applaud Haggis. And I get it. Somebody has to risk a little bit to let these people flourish. I mean, look at Dr. John on TPN. He bought Keltz number one just because he wants to see Haggis grow.
    79:18
    And I don't know. I mean, I get it, but, man, there were so many signs. There were so many signs for so long.
    79:27
    I understand the mindset, and I've heard some people talking about Spooky in that way, that they just want to buy to support. You know what I mean? But at the same time, we're talking about thousands of dollars, too. You know what I mean? Like, I can't look at my wife and say, I'm going to drop $9,000 on this startup or even if it's 1,500 deposit because I want to support this person. You know, I mean, it just I don't know. A lot of this stuff, it doesn't make sense. And obviously, there's a lot of people out there that can justify why they're doing what they're doing. And that's how they want to experience pinball. And I'm not going to get in their way of that. But at the same time, I know for me, that's just it's a little too rich for my blood. The only pinball companies I'm going to buy from is ones that I know have a track record of putting games out. I can never see myself ever putting a dime towards something that they've never put one pin out. I just, I can't do it. Yeah, I think the only challenge or the only, like, when Jersey Jack came out, they released Waz. And, like, that is a license that people are like, I'm in just because that, I want that license. And, I mean, like, I had no temptation for Deep Root because it's a license I don't care about. Even Haggis, Kiltz, it's a license I don't care about. spooky america's most haunted i don't care but if if somebody came to like pen number one is a license that oh god like that is my dream like i don't know i mean maybe those are the only time but it's it it would be tempting in that scenario but it still is a risk and i i get it i even then there's so much that has to go right i mean we've all owned sterns and think about how much goes wrong with that out of box yeah you know and that's established that's a monster manufacturer there. So pinball is not easy. It's not. Despite what Deep Root said, it is not. Things fail on pinball machines all the time. Oh yeah. You stare at a pin, it'll break down. This is how it is. Mechanical nature of it. What I always thought was weird about Deep Root is that they released all those themes and titles on their website that they were going to do, like the Who and Food Truck and, you know, like all these things, the Fire and Brimstone.
    81:53
    Who does that? You know, people that want to convince you that they're a lot further along than what they really are. Yeah, they had 13 titles or something in the works. Hey, let me tell you guys about my pinball company. We've got 32. Got 32 titles on the way. We don't have any designers yet. Well, they have designers, supposedly. They had so much talent, but unfortunately they don't have George Gomez. They don't have a leader that can, like, make it happen.
    82:26
    It's like coming up with the ideas is the easy part. The hard part is actually manufacturing. Like, anybody that's been around it knows that, knows that product development, it's not easy to do. Otherwise, we would all be overnight millionaires because we would just develop a product instantly and sell it to the masses. You're not writing an iPhone app. You know, this is, yeah.
    82:50
    I get it. All right. Well, Deep Root, we will wait and see any official anything. But it was a shame. That's my only thought when I saw it. I was like, it's a shame. It's a shame, and I feel for anybody that's lost money. Joel is pissed off he's not getting a food truck. That's what it is. Yeah, yeah. The reality is I was intrigued by a lot of the technology, and I wanted a chance to play it. And now it doesn't. I mean, the pin bar, though, like why? I was intrigued by it. I don't know. I get it. But why did pinball need that, though? It doesn't. Well, I think you're trying to push something that is technologically something that's newer in this era and not something that's necessarily been done so many times since, you know, 1980, 90, whatever. It was new, and that's what I was – I think that's what I'm excited about. You know, I think that's what people are craving. They want something different.
    83:52
    And, you know, I mean, P3 is out there. Are they, though? I mean, you just said it right there. P3 is out there. It's out there. You can get one. You can order one. I think the demand for P3 is going up. I mean, it's a three-month wait time right now, and if the next game is killer, P3 could. It could. How many are they putting up per week? I don't know. I don't know those numbers. I get what you're saying, Travis. I mean, they're not exactly exploding out the door, but what I'm saying is they have a different technology. If people want innovation, they can look towards that. He's offering that. But the problem is, here's my take on it. I'm glad we're having this discussion because we're actually having a serious discussion right now. I can't believe it. You're doing excellent, fellas. But don't you think, basically, like the people that want innovation, if they want innovation that bad, why did Raza only sell like a little over 100?
    84:52
    Like why wasn't people – why hasn't any other pinball company put out like hellacious innovation? Why isn't P3 the number three or number two pinball company out there? I think people throw around innovation so much, and they say they want that, but look at what sells. The meat and potatoes of pinball is what sells, and I think your innovation has to come incrementally that adds to the game, like the LCD screens behind you, Joel. Yeah, but didn't Waz sell really well? I mean, RGB LED, huge monitor. I mean, when that was revealed, it sold. Yeah, that was a step up. But, again, it's like we're talking about just an LCD screen, though. You know what I mean? Like where does pinball go for innovation from here? I mean, my friends can summon their cars to themselves and be their key. You know what I mean? Like where does pinball really go innovation-wise? underneath that glass or on the... Right. Yeah, go ahead. What do you think, Tom? Well, I was just thinking about, you know, the past and, you know, games like Caveman and some of these other games where they tried, you know, mixing arcade with pinball. It just never worked. Like Granny and the Gators. You know, that stuff just, you know, it didn't take off. you know and i i applaud for somebody trying something new but i mean the innovation has happened without people really even taking a step back and realizing for it i mean yeah yeah it's like look at the light shows that are out now yeah yeah guns and roses is awesome but look at everything else too true compared to just 10 years ago that's completely different i look at my The Walking Dead, it came out in, what, 2014? It doesn't hold a candle to what Avengers Infinity Quest is. Nobody talks about that light show. And then you look at how deep the rule sets have gotten. Oh, my God. Yeah.
    87:02
    That right there, when you're talking about a home environment, you're talking about tournaments, you're talking about people just getting more replays off of it. I mean, that right there, to me, the co-op stuff. Yeah. You know, with Scott Denise on TNA, and now it came over on Ninja Turtles. Now it's on Mandalorian. I mean, stuff like that. There's innovation all around us that I don't think the vast majority of pinball people are really taking a step back and realizing it's right there in front of them. Like, everybody's thinking it's going to be that one mech. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But at the same time, I think. The world's under glass. Yeah, and it's like, I mean, you've played theater or magic plenty of times, Tom. And Joel, you and I have talked about this before. It's like you can only do the same thing so much with a mech before it gets boring after a while. But I had this conversation with a few people at District 82.
    88:00
    Imagine taking some of these 90-belly Williams games and adding the rules from today. Yeah. know yeah and making them different and deeper i mean that could be something in the future as well taking an older title and really expanding on it you know i think it would be hard to do for like a really classic game like maybe attack from mars but you know some other games fathom right it's Now there's Fathom 2.0. We were talking about police force because it's at District 82, and, I mean, really all that game is is just shooting the center ramp.
    88:46
    I mean, you can go to the right ramp and spell police and get a bonus, top cap bonus, but, I mean, if you want to score on that game, you just hit the center ramp over and over again. It takes everything else in that game away. you know so i think too do you think people like here's the reason why rule sets had to evolve the way that they evolved because they don't have the same mechs that a bally williams did back in the day you know what i mean like there's still stuff there some people argue there are no mechs in the games anymore which yeah i mean yeah well yeah i've heard people say that about avengers and And then I'm like, I play it and, you know, I see a tower catching a ball and it's magnetized up there for a jackpot. And then I can hit another ball up there and that gets magnetized for a double super jackpot. And it's like, I think there's still mechs all around. I just think people want to see something that reminds them of the 80s and 90s. And I don't think you're ever going to see something like that again because why wouldn't these new companies go ahead and do that already? If that's the way to go about it. You know what I mean? It's like when you look at a Bally Williams on location, if there's a stern next to it, the stern is going to earn more no matter what. Yeah. It just will. I mean, I can tell you up front right now, like we have a Cactus Canyon, a Monster Bash, and an Attack from Mars on location. Of course, Monster Bash and Attack from Mars gets a little bit of attention, but that Cactus Canyon does not hardly get any attention.
    90:29
    So it is what it is. Yeah. All right. Joel, we need to get the triple combo. Joel's, like, giving me the wrap it up. Let's do it. No, Tom's, like, my bedtime was five minutes from now. I'm good now. I'm awake now. Oh, he's awake. He's revved up. So you had said earlier, you said the word craving, and I can tell you right now. People are really craving triple combo. And to be all serious, we all got multiple messages. We've only done one take at this. Triple combo seems to be well received. so let's uh yeah let's keep it going and uh I'll tell you right now Jason Liebel he does great work so here we go the new triple combo intro Jason Liebel you're the man here it is welcome to triple burger how can I help you yeah can I get the combo please did you want the single the double or the triple I think I'll have the Triple Campbell.
    91:32
    Yeah. Are you done? Yep. Pull ahead, please. It's so good. Travis, have you heard that before that? What's that part? Oh, it's so good. Yeah. I'll put you out. Campbell. Yeah. The reason why I'm laughing is because that's exactly how Tom orders a food. Oh, yeah? When I'm up there in Wisconsin. Are you done? Feedback is order. Like I said, it just goes. Yep. That's so good. I lost it. I lost it when I heard that. Best part was I was in line at Chick-fil-A, did a seven-hour drive yesterday, had to drop my sister off was picking up food on the way home I saw the email I was like got to to it in the in the fast food line i heard that and lost it oh jason weevil you are the man thank you for that intro uh so yeah so on tonight's triple combo we are going to talk about turtles so stern cmnt um and if you're new to this we've only done one of them but if you're new to this we're going to break down the game three different ways so we're going to break it down as a novice Like, what are the fun, quick, easy, enjoyable things to do in Turtles? Then we're going to break it down as wizard mode. How do you get deep into it? And then we're going to break it down into tournament, the tournament strat. So did the two of you guys fight over who does tournament strat? I think Tom's doing it this time. I'm doing the wizard mode. Correct. Okay. All right. Okay. Well, I will stick with novice. So novice, what are the fun, quick, easy things? So friends and family are coming over. They're stepping up to Turtles, and they go, what do I do? This is what I recommend. What do you do in Turtles? There's a bunch. There's a bunch you can do for novice, and that's why I'm a fan of Turtles.
    93:13
    Thing number one, you pick your Turtle. So if you're a novice player, pick Donatello. Donatello, you hit the right ramp one time. One time multiball. That's all you got to do. So you can get somebody to step up, pick Donatello, hit that ramp one time.
    93:30
    After that, if they want to see another multiball, which is a really cool multiball because it uses the pizza spinner. There's a magnet involved. You show them, you point to the turtle van and you say, hit that shot three times. They do that, boom, they get to experience the second multi-ball. That alone is enough for somebody to enjoy the game, just to give them that. If they're not going to pick Donatello, Michelangelo is a great novice pick because it lights your outlaying ball save. So it extends the game a little further. If they want to see an episode, you can pick Raphael. Then you only have to hit the turtle van one time and you're in an episode. So there's a bunch of different ways that you can just – it's basically like Donatello training wheels. Here you go. Hit Donatello one time. Boom, you're in a multi-ball. You get to experience something fun. Other fun things to do in Turtles, co-op mode. Co-op mode is built into the game. You hold both flipper buttons down before you hit start.
    94:25
    You can go over to co-op mode. You can select that. Boom, co-op mode. You can play with other people. That way you're all playing together. Super fun. And the last really fun, easy thing to do is Half Shell Challenge. Half Shell Challenge is like a speed run built into the game. Hold the flipper buttons down. Scroll over to Half Shell Challenge. Start that instead.
    94:47
    There's a whole video on it. It's posted on the Flippin' Out channel that Zach put together of me playing Half Shell Challenge and explaining it. It's an awesome thing. Like, when friends and family come over, I love stepping up to Turtles with them. I show them Half Shell Challenge. endless ball save, try to talk them through hitting different shots. Otherwise,
    95:06
    just say, go down a till and hit the ramp and have a good time. So, that to me, super simple, easy, accessible game if you try to do those three things. So, did I miss anything there? I think I covered it, but I think that, from a novice standpoint, that is how I would attack turtles to have a good time.
    95:27
    Wizard mode. Good job, Joel. Oh, thank you. Tournament strategy, right? Or is it wizard mode ducks no we do wizard mode tom go deeper i just i'm just dipping the toe in the pool cannibal you don't want to do that for the tournament strategy i'll tell you that yeah let's do tournament strategy first you're right go for it tom all right so tournament strategy uh i would say go for rafael because rafael will give you your mission lit right away and also you can train up your turtle and get a lot of play field multiplier by doing that the the first one is the crank 2x but the second one is that extra play field multiplier and if you continue to hit those layered targets you can light your 2x target and you can get some massive scoring going that way. You do want to get into the multi-balls,
    96:30
    but taking your episodes and stacking them with the multi-balls as much as possible is going to be the way to score on the game.
    96:41
    What about toppings? Every time I stream Turtles and they're like, what toppings do I pick? So in competition mode, I know you can't get the gummies, correct, Travis? I mean, I've noticed that. Correct. What do the gummies give you? Talking like me, you know. What's that? More balls. Yes. Oh, okay. So you can only have three balls in your pizza parlor multi-ball, But the toppings are pepperoni, squid, fudge, and sardines or whatever they are.
    97:22
    Anchovies. There's a bunch. There's a bunch of toppings. Well, there's a bunch of them, but I know some of them are out of the competition, I believe. Oh. Travis would know. Well, do you know off the top of your head, like, which ones you want? Squid is my most popular one because you can rip the spinner for a lot of points.
    97:45
    Pepperoni, I believe, is also good. And I'm going to let Travis take it from here because he's just, like, biting his tongue right now. How do you get the squid topping?
    98:01
    Is that what you asked me? Are you sure there's a squid topping in the game? Yeah, I believe so, or is it octopus?
    98:10
    Octopus. Oh, wow. Squid octopus. It's the same to me, but I won't eat either of them. No, Tom is exactly right. Octopus, because all switches start at, I think it's a base value of 3,000, and then it goes up, I think, by 1,000 every 10 switches. So you just want to crush the right spinner And that's legitimately the whole game You could pretty much If you get 2x rolling with Octopus You can pretty much kill it And Fudge works too Because Fudge gives you plus one foot kills too And you get so many foot kills You can collect a super jackpot A lot sooner What's a foot kill? That's like the jackpot right?
    98:59
    Well on the insert They show each foot kill According to what shot you're hitting so it just adds additional foot kill, and you have to get, I think it's like six. Yes. If I remember right. That's right. It's been a hot minute since I played it, but, yeah, I think that's the basic part of it. So to recap my novice brain here, go Raphael. To change pizza toppings, don't you hit the pizza target and it just scrolls through them? And then every time you lock a ball, it locks in those toppings. So you're basically saying shoot for octopus.
    99:31
    What was pepperoni? Do you agree with pepperoni or no, Travis? I think it adds to your jackpot value. Yeah, it adds $250,000. That can be good as well. So you're not being religious on your toppings. You're just shooting for octopus and potentially. I think it starts with octopus as some of your main, because it starts with the same toppings each time. I just forget what it is. It's been a while since I've seen it. The stand-up targets is what changes them, and then once you lock a ball, it locks in some of the toppings. But if you start with Raphael, that means when you lock your ball, you just started your first mode. So you're basically saying you're going to start a mode with Raphael. You have ball one lock. You're going to immediately try to block ball two. You're going to immediately try to start that multi-ball. And then, hopefully, if you got Octopus going, if you can get two times going and then rip Spinner, I mean, that's it. Like, that's the goal? And just keep multi-ball going and keep ripping? More or less. I want to play some of the missions out. You know, depending on which mission, I might want to carry a multi-ball into that.
    100:37
    Okay. You know, some of the missions are easier than others, so I might want to bring a multi-ball into a harder one just where it has more shots. Do you agree with that, Travis? No, you're right. I mean, everything you said is dead on. I guarantee when this pen is at Expo or somewhere like that, everybody is going to be choosing Raphael. There's absolutely zero reason to choose any other turtle in competition, just because your mission's already lit, and you can get upwards to an additional X on your play field. So imagine Joel doing the octopus frenzy with three X. So you can max out your spinner at 35,000 times three. You can get a lot of points quick. Yeah, but leveling up your character is not quick. That's the thing. And it's not easy either. no it's not easy either but even just 2x it's still fine you'll win if you pick Raphael you will probably win I guarantee equity or whatever is in your favor or whatever is EV expected value is in your favor you'll win the majority of your games if somebody else picks a different turtle which is funny because like Guardians right so many people pick Star Lord just because it's an instant multiball and they can feel out the game and hit some certain things. I feel like that was a pretty common strat, at least that I saw. So initially I was like, well, is Donatello going to be like the go-to tournament strat? Because it's one shot and you're in a multi-ball, and you're basically saying no. No. The points are in that multi-ball. That multi-ball is not worth that much. It's not worth anything. Yeah, anytime – if somebody picks Donatello ahead of us, we're like, yes. Good job. Yeah. Kind of goes to the – well, Joel, just an off-the-beat question. And which character would you pick in the Stern Star Wars pin when you start?
    102:34
    I don't know that answer, to be honest, because I've never had Star Wars and I'm not a tournament player. We'll talk about that on another podcast. Play it on another one? All right. Another Dwight special. Sounds good. Star Wars. I think we're good tournament-wise. I think you killed it, Tom. Well, thank you. Yeah. You got all the points. Tom destroyed it. Yeah. Well, also, too, the Episode 4 is pretty good, or Mission 4 on there. If you bring Mission 4 into a multiball, that's really good, because that lights both stand-up targets with the April and the Lair targets as well. So bringing that into a multiball, you're basically guaranteed to finish it. You can change that based on the targets to the left and right of the left ramp. You can change your mission.
    103:20
    Bingo. Good job, fellas. Tom, well played. Thank you. Well done. All right, Wizard. Mr. Wizard, how do you beat all of the game, Travis?
    103:30
    You just never drain, and you do all the things. Which is not easy on that game. No, it's really difficult.
    103:40
    Yeah, it's actually, this Wizard mode is actually pretty difficult to do. It's probably, yeah, it's pretty difficult, because it's one of those things that you'll know on ball one whether or not you're going to get there or not, because the way that the rule set is, it's awfully hard to come back around to some of these things. So you have to complete certain things. So the things that you have to do in order to qualify at Cowabunga, which is your final wizard mode, you have to do triple mondo jackpot. I don't know why I'm trying to guess. I have the sheet right here in front of me. So let me bring it up. Triple mondo jackpot, jackpot o grande, one, two, three foot combo, weapon hurry up, collect five April Hurry Ups, and collect a Max Crane combo, and play Final Battle. That's a lot of stuff you got to do. It is. Yeah, that's a whole lot of stuff. So, you know, what I like to do, I've done it a couple of times before, and what I focus on early on is I do not use Raphael for this. I use Donatello for this, and the reason being is because your Turtle Power Multiball is automatically lit on the right ramp. So for getting to wizard mode, we're not concerned about the points at all. We're just concerned about progression at this point. That's what we're concerned about. So you need Donatello because you can get into your Turtle Power multiball pretty quick. And I'm trying to remember which one that leads to, which jackpot that leads to. I think it's the Mondo jackpot. Yeah, it is the Mondo jackpot. Yeah. So, yeah, you basically have to hit a lot of shots in that mode. and eventually just collect the triple mondo jackpot, which, again, it's – gosh, Joel, this has been like six months since I've had to do this. I think it's where you have to collect everything, and then that's where you have to hit that crane loop to collect the double, and then I think you have to do it again for the triple. That's the problem. It's not just hitting the shot one time. It's hitting it three times. Yeah. It's pretty difficult to do. Yeah. Yep. So I would always say clear that first because that's the tough one to get to. And you might as well pick Donatello just so you can just take one shot that right ramp to do something like that. And, you know, one, two, three foot combo, I think you pretty much, again, you go over an in lane, hit a light, and you've got to hit ramps, basically, and you've got to do it all in sequential order. You can do that in three shots. Like it's not – it's doable. Yep, yep. That's something to clear out pretty quick. Like the Jack Pato Grande, you know, that one is actually pretty tough, too, because that layer shot is not easy to do. It's easy to brick a lot. But pretty much you have to, I think that, I want to say that one is available in both multi-balls, though. I think that's available in both Hurdle Power and Ninja Pizza. Yes. So, yep. So you'll have to light that, collect that as well. And you only have to hit that shot once, right? Once, yeah. That one's just one time. You have to get it lit, but once it's lit, you have to hit the layer shot during a multi-ball. Yep. And I really don't have any particular order to get to that. It's basically just hitting lit shots until you get there. And you can get to that one fairly quick. But the only thing is, is, again, you have to, when it comes to the, I guess it's the turtle van or the ninja pizza multi-ball, you can only do that one time before your team-up, which is four episodes. So that's why you have to take advantage of it, because you're only going to get this two times within the ecosystem of the first part of the game, leading up to final battle. So hopefully that makes sense. It's kind of hard to explain without the play field right in front of me. And then collective weapon hurry up. That's actually pretty easy to do. It's just going over the end lane, hitting an orbit, and collecting at the ramp, and you'll be fine on that. And then so complete the five April hurry ups. yeah this this one is actually yeah this one's sneaky hard so what i like to do i i kind of like to use this and the max crane combo together in the sense that with the max crane combo you have to hit that combo i think three times in a row to max it out and then another time to complete it if i remember right yep is that correct fellas yeah okay and so again we're Three inner loops, and it's on a timer, so you don't have to, like, pop, pop, pop. You could hit one or two. If you can cradle up and get back up there, you can add to it. The three inner loops, and then you have to hit the ramp. Yep. And that's a little bit of a grind as well. But, again, I would recommend doing all this with the backdrop being your missions or your episodes.
    108:27
    And whenever you do get into an episode, I wouldn't worry about completing it because all you have to do is just get through it in order to get the final battle. You just have to get through all of them. And I think there's, how many is there, eight total?
    108:40
    So, yeah, I usually just use the missions as a backdrop. And typically with the April hurry-ups, I would try to do those as early as possible as well, because those are a grind. If you don't have those complete and you're on ball three, you're pretty much in trouble. So the April hurry-up is the April target. You hit the target five times. It lights your outlanes. Yeah, and then battle again. It'll lighten your right ramp.
    109:10
    No, I thought the first time is battle again. First time is battle again. So that's five shots, and then you have to do five more shots. Now you have a hurry-up on the right ramp. You hit the right ramp. You've done it one time.
    109:24
    So if battle again is still lit, is it only five more shots to get to the next area? I thought you had to play a mission to relight that target. Yes. Oh, Lord. Yeah, that's the one that I think the best I've ever done. It's the same thing for the layer on the other side. Yep. That's the grind part. So what you want to do for the April hurry-ups as well, do not aim to the north side of those targets. You want to aim as low as possible. The reason being, if you aim too high up on those targets, you're going to ricochet it off the right ramp post, and then that ball's probably going to drain out to the left side. That's why you see a lot of people complaining about the left side, how many drains there are there, not only because you're going to get borg'd, but a lot of people are shooting that April target high up, and it hits off that post, and there's nowhere for it to go. It's like no man's land over there on the left-hand side. So you want to really try to aim around the I and the L, somewhere right around that area. That way you won't hit off that post. But, yep, that's everything you have to do. And honestly. Oh, and then all eight missions. Yep. That's why you got to do these missions as a backdrop. So your key is really is using the extra balls strategically as well. So after two episodes, you'll get an extra ball. You can get them via the PictoPops also, which is in the pops themselves. It's almost like a slot machine type thing you'll see on the LCD to where you got to hit it up there. It'll keep going through. and if it matches two, it'll lock those two in, and then you can complete the final third one. So you can get a random award that way, or if you do enough pizza targets with the pizza eating contest, you'll get enough. And I think that's around like 50 or 60, somewhere right in there. So that typically helps you as well, but it is an absolute grind. It's hard to do. I would say this is probably the most difficult wizard mode to attain, in my opinion, that's came out in the past couple of years.
    111:28
    Sounds like a Carl challenge coming up. Exactly. It sounds like a Carl challenge. But that's one reason I enjoy the game as a home game because I'm not Travis. I have not gotten to it multiple times. This is like, you know, in my mind, it's like I just want to get the final battle. Like the best I've done, and this is me cheating, I play like a two-player or three-player co-op game. so I'm actually cheating with like six balls or nine balls and like the best I've done is in that amount of time I get through final battle I may get two maybe three April hurry ups I probably grab the crane combo but there's so much more to do like that's the thing that this game is is a there's a lot and that's what's crazy is there's more in the game that that Dwight put you know layer upgrading that the the neutrino pizza party like there are other things in the game that he has not included and i'm glad he hasn't because it's just there's a ton there's a ton in this game and there's a lot you got to do to get to cowabunga so um yeah nice job travis explaining that anything else for triple combo on turtles i think that's i think that's about it well that was Oh, what a great. Oh, so good. All right. Well, I know that's a great segment by far, but we have another segment coming up here that I know people are really excited about. This is what we hear the most feedback on. This is what people are craving. That's why we save it for the end. You know, speaking of feedback, this is Episode 5, guys. This is something we were supposed to celebrate. We're getting really excited about. We were just flooded with with so many messages, so many audio clips, you know, people just congratulating us left and right. I have to admit, I made a mistake. I tried to transfer all of those clips, try to get them into the show. It probably would have made this show at least another 30, 40 minutes, you know, playing them all. Something happened, you know, and I lost. so I'm sorry but to the listener we're just flooded with praise and most of it all revolved around this one segment Tom are you excited? This is your time to shine. Are you ready for Tom Talks? Not really Perfect, here we go
    114:01
    Tom Talks I got nothing. All right, Tom. On this episode, I actually lied to you. We did actually get a submission that is all about this. And so this is a submission from our dear friend Glenn. I would love for you to listen to this, and then we'll discuss it. All right, here we go. Sounds good. What's up, fellas? This is Glenn Wechter, and I would like to send a massive that-a-boy to the Triple Drain Podcast for five top-notch pinball podcasts. The early days were rough, but you stuck it out and really showed that you can polish a turd.
    114:48
    Having said that, Jason Liebly. Yeah. Do you know who I am? Let me introduce myself. I've been making audio skits, segment intros, podcast theme songs, and pinball parodies for all sorts of pinball podcasts for months before you walked in on my turf. I reached out to Joel and said, hey, I'd like to make the definitive intro to Tom Talks. You know what he told me? He said, we've already got it covered. What D-bag has it covered? You know what? Ed Robertson opened up for Glenn at the reach-arounds, not Jason the hillbilly.
    115:29
    Everyone in the world knows the last segment of a pinball podcast is the canvas for Glenn to share his art with the world.
    115:37
    The poor men, the final round, Jesse Jay, the pinball show, they've all been blessed by Glenn's craftwork and creativity. Now, you may be a worthy adversary, Jason, but this is my arena, and you will soon see how I can go bigger, higher, faster, louder, and stronger with more musical prowess than you could have ever mustered in a lifetime.
    116:03
    Everyone, and I mean everyone, will soon see who really has nothing. Get used to hearing this, buddy. It's time for Tom to talk.
    116:15
    So, Tom. So, Glenn. Glenn is throwing down a challenge. Okay. So, if you're not aware, your segment, specifically your segment intro, has become a battlegrounds for people. I mean, this segment is blown up. Okay. I'm glad two guys are fighting over me. No, this is legitimately my wife's favorite segment. Yeah. So any podcast Glenn said he is going to take Jason's intro and do it bigger and better. So I just want. So the question here, Tom, is are you prepared for this segment and you're talking to grow with this jingle? You know, if this is going bigger, are you ready to go bigger? I mean, how are you feeling? How are you feeling knowing that that this segment is becoming what it is? Feel free. Tell us all your thoughts.
    117:17
    All right. I got nothing. Yeah. Okay. I love that there are two guys that are going to spend hours of their life building up this, and you're going to follow it up with.
    117:34
    I've got nothing. I'm just flabbergasted right now. I just I'm speechless well everybody now I know how Elwynn feels oh so we just real quick we just compared Tom Talk to Keith Elwynn the goat apparently that's in the same category alright I'm glad we all alright let's wrap that up with this
    118:11
    Tom Talks. I got nothing. Yeah, and if you didn't notice, that is a second version, a past tense version of the Tom Talks intro. And so if Tom Talks, it's Tom Talked. So thank you, Jason, once again for that contribution. And, oh, boy, I did not expect. Thanks, Glenn, too. Yeah, I can't wait to see what Glenn produces. But, I mean, we got the Keith Ellwin of segments, apparently. Jeez, what a comparison.
    118:44
    Did you notice after Tom was on final round, all of a sudden they get all the big names. Like Tom just opened up the floodgates. They get Roger Sharp. Now they got Keith Elwin coming on. I mean, wow. We get them every week. We're spoiled. You guys are damn lucky. well to wrap this all up one thing i will say is we have merch we have merch and we put it out and the best part is we've sold it did you hear that david dennis we sold our merch i don't know if you've experienced that but we have sold ours so i cannot believe how many t-shirts we have yeah we have sold merch so feel free to check out silver ball chronicles and i don't even think Travis and Joel have even bought it. I've been waiting. I need my wife to pick one out and be like, which one of these do you want to see me wear? Because I'm going to wear it all the time. Tom, you have one. It is soft. It fits you well. It's very soft. I've seen you guys. That's the best part is we've shipped a lot to Wisconsin. Let me tell you.
    119:50
    Seeing some of these District 82, you know, trophy ceremonies, it's awesome to see. Not one, but like two Triple Drain shirts. So feel free to check out our merch.
    120:00
    And, yeah, I think that's it. Two-hour podcast, guys. Obviously, Episode 5, got to go big. I think we had some good conversation. Yeah, I called it. Yeah. Tom was like, I'm going to be done at 10. Yeah, Tom's still awake. Yeah, look at that. Tom's still awake.
    120:16
    I'm just calling into work tomorrow. You work for yourself. No, you call it. You're your boss. Yeah.
    120:23
    That's what you think. All right, let's do some quick plugs. Tom, go ahead. I'm going to plug my pinball stuff Fox City's Pinball, you can find me on Twitch YouTube, Instagram and Facebook, just look up Fox City's Pinball, you can also email me at foxcityspinball at gmail.com oh good, man he really livens up towards the end he does, he's all revved up and ready to go Yeah. Travis, go ahead, man. You can find me on YouTube at Marv Loco, or you can find me on Facebook at Travis Fury. Yeah. And believe it or not, I had to find your email. I didn't realize your email is a pinball podcast at gmail.com.
    121:14
    Oh, yeah. There's somebody else. I don't think it's you. Marv Loco at gmail.com, I don't think is you. Could be wrong. No, that's not me. If you're sending to marvloko at gmail.com, you'll probably get a bunch of spam texts afterwards. The avatar was like an evil clown. I'm like, I don't think that's Marv. No, that's not me. No, no. Sorry. Sorry, guys. Well, I'm Joel. I do Just Another Pinball podcast, Just Another Pinball stream. If you need me, justanotherpinball at gmail.com.
    121:46
    Yeah, anything I can do for you, let me know. But, guys, appreciate it. Five episodes. Killed it. Woo-hoo! Episode six. I think we will get an extra ball. Maybe they'll rope us in a little bit.
    121:58
    But, yeah, great time. I would assume we'll record again in, I don't know, three-ish weeks. Yeah. I'm ready for that Lifetime Achievement Award that TPN gives out. What is that? What loser could win? Well, that's just excellent. Oh, crap. We can't be nominated for that, can we? I don't think so. PIAs are coming up, and I don't know. As long as we're not on the committee, we might have a shot. I don't know. We had no TPN anything last year. I mean, I'm not going to lie. The only reason why I do this is for the awards, not to hang out with you. Very true.
    122:30
    Yeah, I just know we get Tom every week, and Tom Talks is the Keith Ellin of pinball segments. So, I mean, come on.
    122:41
    All right. Well, appreciate all the listeners. Yeah, if you need to get a hold of us, triple trade, triple trade at gmail.com. And until next time, see you later. Goodbye.