[Music] hurry up. What's up everybody? What's everybody? That's an awesome start. Let's reel it back. Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Dirty Pool podcast. I'm Jeff. Uh I'm joined here uh with uh Rob Rob Wrath from the Electric Playground. This is our second episode on mods. I guess to introduce that if you don't know who Rob is, Rob's kind of like Davey, but he's the top, whereas Davey's the bottom. Uh, and what I mean by that is that Rob makes toppers. And, uh, and Davey mostly puts everything else inside the game. What's going on, Rob? Hey, man. It's great to be here. Uh, Hey, man. It's great to be here. Uh, shout out to Davey. Uh, not not my business partner, but a good friend. And in this case, uh, with this beautiful game where we got Sim behind me, we work together. So, looking forward to telling you guys about that. Yeah, let's we'll zoom out. We'll take a look at it. We got a little like sneak sneak peek there. Uh, but we're we're going to dive into what's going on behind you a little bit after we talk about what you are and where you came from. Your company's new and you're like a baby in the in the pinball world. Electric Playground started in 2022, right? right? Yeah. Yeah. We uh my partner and I, Yeah. Yeah. We uh my partner and I, Alec, kicked things off in 2022. We we told the story a few times. I'll tell it real quick. We uh both got our Godzillaas on the same day. It was about 18 months after it had come out and uh we both kind of set on our own path uh to make a topper for our games because we were both like modders basically. And uh I ended up uh wanting to make something out of cut uh laser cut acrylic because I had some experience with that. Uh it's kind of sitting there right behind me. uh based on the side cabinet artwork of the uh based on the side cabinet artwork of Godzilla. Uh I started sharing it with a few Uh I started sharing it with a few people on pin side. People were like, "Hey, I'd love for you to make one." We ended up selling a few kind of under the radar because obviously it was using licensed content uh because it was based on the side of the cabinet, but it really just validated the opportunity for us. Um and then we quickly set off uh in 2022 uh building our first topper, which was Twilight Zone. uh and launched that at at TPF 2023 and been going strong since the rest is history. TPF 2026, so three years later. Yeah. TPF 2026, so three years later. Yeah. I'm guessing I'm guessing you don't have I'm guessing I'm guessing you don't have the Godzilla still since the topper is on the wall. Oh man, it's tough. So So I had it for a Oh man, it's tough. So So I had it for a while. Alex still has his. I got the black and white one, but we're currently in our our third space. Started at my house and then we went to a smaller space and now our bigger space. But like having machines is is a they take up a lot of space even for us uh who need them. Uh, so there's a cycle thing going on. Um, and unfortunately I did I did I I lifted the Oh my god. I lifted the playfield on that more than most and it was it was kind of time. Yeah. Got it. Got it. Uh, so if you don't Got it. Got it. Uh, so if you don't know, uh, and this is to chat, not to you. We do this live and the whole point of it is to have engagement from the people that are hanging out here. So if you have any questions for Rob, you want to you want to throw something, any curve balls, give him some hard questions, I'm happy to throw them out there. Nuclear Black has showed up and uh he is obsessed with this patent for Whitewater, which he did the research, he found the patent. Apparently, there's this white foil like technique for how it's I don't know, man. How does it work? There's some sort of weird patent involved in it. And he found the original patent. So, uh you got to send it you got to send it on. There's two games there's two games that There's two games there's two games that you should not do a tapper for that we both want to do a tapper for. It's Adam's family and Whitewater. Um and yeah, man. I I'd be No. Why are Why is that the nogo? Just cuz they they came with toppers and Just cuz they they came with toppers and everybody has them generally or a lot of people have them. Uh but our but our idea for both of those is to like take them to the next level, right? With with uh with Adams particular uh like turn it into almost like a cuckoo clock where like things are happening in the windows. Upcoming Adams family topper. Spoilers. Upcoming Adams family topper. Spoilers. Not in the works. Not in the works. Not in the works. Not in the works. Don't Don't forget the the amazing high quality topper that comes with Judge Dread. Oh man, let's not forget that that fine piece of quality. I had that game. I had that was my I had that game. I had that was my second game and I I love that topper. Uh no, no, I don't think it's on the list. It's a little chintzy. Farro wants to It's a little chintzy. Farro wants to know if you're doing a topper for Harry Potter. Uh well, we have publicly said we're Uh well, we have publicly said we're looking into it. Um there's some interesting opportunities with it. I got to see it for the first time this last weekend. Uh my dad and I, he works he works with me. Uh we went and checked it out. Um he's actually thinking about picking one up uh specifically for that purpose. Uh it's it definitely is like what's Uh it's it definitely is like what's there feels like it was never finished. It's very lifeless. It's weirdly cheap. Absolutely It's weirdly cheap. Absolutely not a hot take. I don't think um I think not a hot take. I don't think um I think that uh there's definitely an opportunity there. So it's on the list. I mean, we can we may get into licensing on this conversation, but like licensing is always tricky, especially with something like Star Wars or Harry Potter. So, that would be a big part of like how we evaluate it. For sure. So, when you're taking on the For sure. So, when you're taking on the idea of one of these, right? So, I'm assuming you prototype a lot of this stuff. Like, what is like a prototype idea that you would put together for one of your toppers where you were just like, "Fuck this. This is not going to work." Uh I think everything we've started is still like in the the realm of possibility. The [ __ ] this part generally comes down to how complex they are because you are you are seeing now some variation in pricing um on our our toppers and that that is very much directly tied to how many manh hours US manh hours it takes. US man fine a fine metric for US man fine a fine metric for value. Yeah. So, uh, but maybe, hey, value. Yeah. So, uh, but maybe, hey, maybe there's some tax stuff going on with that. We'll see. Um, but, uh, yeah. So, like I think a lot of our stuff that's like sitting on the shelf is like it's just too complex, uh, for what we what we need to do right now as a business. Uh, something that we completely threw away. Um, yeah, man. Nothing nothing comes to mind. I mean, we definitely we definitely spend a lot of time thinking about the ideas. We build 3D models. So, we do a lot of digital work before we actually take the step into the physical side of things. So, I would say maybe there was a couple ideas there. I've got a great ideas for Jaws there. I've got a great ideas for Jaws that's like still in that digital phase where it's like, you know, uh could we really pull this off to the level that it would actually look good? I think the idea is strong, but executing it and making it reliable is another question. Gotcha. And reliability an important Gotcha. And reliability an important part of pinball if people don't people don't know. Uh you talked about cutting your own stuff. Does your shop have all the necessary like mills and whatnot? I know. I've seen a picture of it. I mean when we were on uh you know in before the lock uh which by the way your your studio is both in color and in organization like the polar opposite to Davies. It's like you're like the monochrome crew. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Keeping organized is Yeah. I don't know. Keeping organized is a is a superpower or an annoyance depending on who you ask. Um, we have uh we have quite a bit of equipment. Nothing too crazy, but uh we do have two uh laser beds. So, one is very big. It's like a 60x 40 inch laser bed, so it can fit a very large sheet of acrylic uh for cutting things that we do. And then we have a smaller one here for prototyping. Got lots of tools. Uh we've got seven bamboo uh 3D printers. Now, we don't do a lot with 3D printing that's like visibly uh visible on the outside of the topper, but a lot of the internal components are 3D printed. I mean, we even 3D print some of our washers now. I think washers are easy to come by, but making a washer that's exactly the size you need um has a lot of benefits to it, right? I mean, I think 3D printing used to have a reputation for being of used to have a reputation for being of like temporary quality, but I don't I don't think that's really the case now, right? It's come such a long way. I mean, It's come such a long way. I mean, whether it's like the material itself or the finish that people are able to achieve with it, um it's it's uh come a long way. I mean, I think that um it's only going to continue to become more interesting and it's it's more affordable. Uh there's also a lot of materials to achieve different things. Um the big piece of equipment that we don't have here in house is the the printer. It's a very large piece of equipment. Uh but we have a vendor. We're based in St. Louis, Missouri. Uh we're in the city and we've got a sign maker that used to do signs for a lot of companies, but he's we're one of his few clients now, which is uh pretty cool to have like a dedicated uh resource. Uh so shout out to Tim. Thanks for all your help. Which also means that you're keeping him Which also means that you're keeping him busy uh and definitely in business cuz you're making a lot of toppers. The amount of games that you have had toppers for seems to have exponentially grown over the last like 2 years, it seems. Because like if you look at the release cycle for how your toppers have come out. I didn't even realize you did one for Vicabowski which is bad. You know, do your research, Jeff. But here we are like you've got at least two or three in the works and a re-release uh of Twilight Zone coming out, right? Yeah. Yeah. We've got uh Twilight Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've got uh Twilight Yeah. We're going to be doing we actually have like kind of like a last call coming up uh in a few weeks uh maybe in a month uh where we're going to be taking orders for uh whatever whatever our back catalog people want to be produced in this calendar year. Uh but I think we're up to about seven uh toppers in total uh including our latest Alice one. And um I think our pace right now is about two or three a year and I think that's probably a pretty good spot for us. So, we'll keep that up, especially to keep the quality up especially to keep the quality up because Yeah, Silver's got a great question. Is that what you're looking at? Yeah, Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead and ceue us up on go ahead. Go ahead and ceue us up on that. Okay. Uh, where do you find the right balance Uh, where do you find the right balance of material choices? Acrylics, 3D printed forms, practical visuals, uh, even the change from the base uh, even the change from the base topper. Yeah. So, uh, we're definitely continuing to expand our our skill set. Um, I think one of the things that I was uncomfortable with initially was like the painting process of acrylics, not just uh working with acrylics. And we're starting to get more help with that. Um, and vendors for painting and stuff like vendors for painting and stuff like that. Yeah. So, we uh for the buildings for Yeah. So, we uh for the buildings for Godzilla, we had done by Sergio Le, who's based in Texas. He's uh known a little bit in the mod space. He's done some really cool stuff. So, he did the buildings for our Godzilla uh topper. Uh we are actually talking with him about doing the front four uh buildings on Godzilla. Hot take uh for you guys out there that have Godzilla. We're looking into that. Uh but then we ended up printing the uh the console that has the screens and painting those. Uh my fiance Margaret actually helps with the painting on that. So like finding the right resource because that's a little bit different skill set than uh the the folks that we have with our team now. So we're going to keep also nice to do it in family because also nice to do it in family because it's cheap. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Um, Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Um, it's also just a a personal taste thing. I mean, I think, um, some stuff I think the full 3D sculpted stuff makes a lot of sense. Um, some stuff I I don't. Uh, in the case of like Alice, which is combining those two elements, like I think that turned out really great. So, uh, we're going to be we're going to be continuing to push the boundary on that because it's something we get asked for a lot. Um, it's just a kind of an evolution of skill set type thing, right? He wants to talk about Alice so right? He wants to talk about Alice so bad. I'm not let I'm not going to let him. We're gonna milk it for another like 20 minutes or so. No one here cares about Alice. No one here cares about Alice. No, we'll get there. Silver I mean I No, we'll get there. Silver I mean I think people would care more about Alice if more Alice has actually made it to the country, but that's a different conversation. So Silver's asking about classics. I think that's a great question. Would you I mean I obviously Twilight Zone I would consider a classic. I don't I don't I think he's talking more system 9 8 11 games and and earlier period, but is there any interest in putting toppers on some of these older games? So, we did do a topper for Captain Fantastic. It is an EM. Uh, we claimed it. Oh, we claimed it was maybe maybe one of the earlier or one one of maybe one of the earlier or one one of the first like official because it was a planetary pinball uh Valley Williams license topper for Captain Fantastic. Uh, that is actually a top 10 selling game uh all time. I think they sold about 16,000 of those. There may be some discrepancies there, but it's a very popular game. Uh we really enjoyed doing it. It was about $700 or $800. Um and I I kind of found like in doing that and I'm learning this with all toppers is like how top of mind a game is uh does directly translate to sales. Like how much are people thinking about the game? Uh because they are being asked to make an investment in an asset that you know already may cost somewhere around that much potentially. Uh, in the case of like Captain Fantastic, I mean, there's a lot of really nice ones out there. Uh, I would assume that's the same for Gorggar. How do you How do you interface with How do you How do you interface with Captain Fantastic? Yeah, Yeah, since our system. since our system. Yeah. So, our system is uh pretty Yeah. So, our system is uh pretty extensible across multiple games. Um, the way it works is that there's a brain in the topper, which is a Arduino based computer system, and there's a board that has outputs. So this computer can basically tell the lights on the board to do lots of different things. It can have single lights. It can have motors or it can have light strips to do light shows. That is connected to a board underneath the game via Cat 5 Ethernet cable. It is a node board. So if you have a Spike 2 system, you're probably familiar with that term. And on that node board uh which is about this big, it's got up to 16 inputs. Uh so those inputs are photo resistors. So they basically look for light to turn on and off and we can monitor multiple lights on and off and actually use that as logic to know if like a certain situation is happening. Um and is this using LOI the Davey's lolly is this using LOI the Davey's lolly board system or is this something is this separate? I don't use that crap. I don't use that crap. Oh Davey shots fired. Oh Davey shots fired. That is what we're using for Alice and That is what we're using for Alice and that's one reason Alice is is cheaper but we'll talk about that later. Uh that's using Davey's existing system. Our system uh is our own homegrown system. It was developed by Alex Oer who's part of our team and it's continued to be built on by other our team members like Nick and uh most of our toppers use that system. Um and it's just a way to kind of in a kind of old school uh ones and zeros way know if know if something's on and and of course that works with EMS. Yep. Yep. Easy logic switch on and off. So you Easy logic switch on and off. So you just clip on a kind of photo sensor, I'm guessing, to specific strobes or whatever elements you want. Depending on where it is, it may be zip Depending on where it is, it may be zip tied or we may build a 3D mount. So in the case of like Labowski and and I know some of our Labowski owners will uh will will sympathize with the difficulty of sliding this large 3D printed object underneath the center board where it tracks the five characters and the five bowling balls. And that's effectively a a pre-built kind of array of photo resistors that allow the topper of photo resistors that allow the topper to know what's happening. Would you say that zip ties are kind of Would you say that zip ties are kind of like the MacGyver tool of like duct tape for pinball people? Like is is a zip tie the equivalent to duct tape duct tape? Oh, for sure. I mean, we I use zip ties Oh, for sure. I mean, we I use zip ties in my home now, like way more than I did before, cuz it's like once you start to to learn how to use them, they become a solution for rigging up. Totally, man. I I put my marriage back Totally, man. I I put my marriage back together with zip ties, it's working great. So, you talked about different cost value for a lot of your toppers. So, like the the Double Tap, which is probably one of your I would say I guess that and the the Godzilla one since it's got so many [ __ ] monitors in it, but the Double Tap one is is one of your more expensive toppers and it has a lot of [ __ ] going on in it. Um, when you're Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. pricing. pricing. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I'm just I'm both curious one and Well, I'm just I'm both curious one and how you determine your pricing so that you so that it isn't uh prohibitively expensive for whoever is going to actually purchase it for the game. And then second, like, yeah, I don't know. The value is really yeah, I don't know. The value is really kind of the most primary thing on that I'm curious about. You someone who's buying a CGC game like that, it's new and boxed, it's obviously going to be an expensive game. Do you factor in like, well, now they Do you factor in like, well, now they don't have any more money or now like they definitely want to make this like a a part of their collection forever. That something has to go into the thought process of how you kind of target the people that are going to buy it. You mentioned you want to pick a game that's in the spotlight. It's weird that you're picking Alice. We are going to get to that. But but let's talk uh Pulp Fiction because Pulp Fiction is a great game. I love Pulp Fiction a lot. I think it's a a super fun game and I think that your topper has so much [ __ ] going on. Well, Pulp Fiction was Pulp Fiction was Well, Pulp Fiction was Pulp Fiction was more in the spotlight until it wasn't. I mean, you can argue it's not so much in the spotlight anymore, but we had we had a ton of the success with Labowski. Uh very low volume game. I think there was about 1,200 at the time as reported. And we had it that one was limited to 100. Um I think we launched that in like November 2024 and we sold a hundred of them in like three days. It was it was pretty amazing. And just from like a percentage perspective like you know 10% of the entire market you know bought it. Um, we felt like uh that we were starting to understand that that we were starting to understand that like people that really like, you know, have an affinity for the game you know, have an affinity for the game as a collector or just as it being a unique item or it being rare would equate to them wanting to invest, you know, more in in upgrades for it. Uh, so we saw that with uh Labowski. Now, now Pulp Fiction did have a pretty amazing topper, but that topper was uh exclusive to a certain edition. So, if they would have sold that topper just like to anybody that bought either versions of the game, we wouldn't have done that topper. But, we felt like there's a lot of people that missed out on that and they really had a strong passion for that game. Uh ultimately what we saw was like right around the time we started to sell the topper, a lot of people were flipping that game and the value was kind of falling out on it a little bit and so we didn't see necessarily as strong as sales as we projected on it. But at the end of the day um pricing wise um there's a lot of labor that goes into that one. Uh we ended up incorporating way more complex lighting in it than Twilight Zone. Uh we incorporated speakers into it. Uh but also we had already done a lot of the work. I mean it's it's largely a rehash of the Twilight Zone on Topper. So there was cost savings from that perspective. Uh the original Twilight Zone Topper, the metal ramps cost like $150 a piece because of how uh bespoke that they were. But then over the time of Twilight Zone, we reduced the cost of that. Uh there there is more coating involved in uh uh pulp, so we had to recoup that. But there's no screen. So there's a bunch of different offsets with it. I mean, that one's 1,500 whereas, uh, Twilight Zone is, I think, 1630. Um, but there's a couple different reasons there, but the end of the day, I mean, it's like that's just what we have to charge for that's just what we have to charge for that. I mean, some people say, "Hey, it's just a bunch of flat plastic," but, it does a lot. Um, and everyone that has it is like really thrilled with it. So, that's that's exciting. The development and prototyping. I mean The development and prototyping. I mean there's a lot of I think development that goes into any kind of physical prototype item that ends up getting manufactured that people don't really kind of take into consideration. It's like yeah it is fantastic but it's like well there's yeah final rendition recouped kind of over final rendition recouped kind of over the over the timeline of the sales and um yeah so it's factored in. So, when you take on one thing that I really love and we've mentioned Davey's name a few times, so I just to clarify, Dave is a Stumbler Mods, uh, if you're not familiar with that, but I you and I talked about in our like pre-show kind of chitchat that like I don't like toppers personally. And a I don't like toppers personally. And a lot of that had to do with the fact that like a lot of early toppers and a lot of early mods weren't adding anything to the game and they weren't making the game like more of a cohesive package. But that's like changed now. And I think that you and and Davey are two of the kind of top mod people that have really kind of pushed the envelope of what these are to like more of like an artistic level where they do feel like they're part of the game, which you know, proven by the fact that you have a collaboration with Dutch Pinball here right behind you that is now like an official kind of part of the game. So, I mean, I think um there's a Yeah, there's a I think um there's a Yeah, there's a couple things that I think are similar for Davey and I and that we want our stuff to feel like it would have come from the factory. Um that's a that's a tough thing to achieve and it also takes a specific, you know, creative direction uh from the early onset to get there. Uh, the thing that we focus on, which I think a lot of Dave stuff does too, but it's easier with a topper, is we like to do what pinball machines attempt to do, which is offer pinball moments. And we like to do that with our toppers. So, right, right, as we evaluate new games coming out or as we evaluate new games coming out or past games, like we want to see as many like wow moments or pinball moments or just interesting things to like if someone brand new is talking over our shoulder, like what would you be telling them why you think this game is cool or what would you be challenging them to execute in the game to make the cool thing happen? Medieval Madness being the most obvious example uh of that with the castle exploding. I mean, telling a 5-year-old, 10-year-old, 20-year-old, 70-year-old to make that castle shake is just pure joy and purely doable for all of them, uh, with a bit of effort. And we want to do that with our toppers. So, we like to have at least one pinball moment, um, in any topper that we make, um, whether that be movement or surprise or a light show or whatever it is. And I think that's where our bar is for it really. And that's why we it's very difficult for us to make a $500 topper or whatever because like building that into the early criteria of the design plan never pans out because of the labor involved of pulling that off. Sure. I mean, I think that's a really Sure. I mean, I think that's a really smart kind of like design approach to have, you know, every topper needs to provide this particular moment so that there's that kind of like value and that you know what you're getting when you get, you know, a t and it's different. I mean, with t and it's different. I mean, with Labowski, there's no moment, but it's a work of art. Like, if you ever get a chance to see it in person, I I hear it over and over again. people open it up. It's It's heavy as all hell. Uh it has so many pieces. It is a work of art. And ultimately, we only sold the hundred, but we ended up selling a lot of uh wall arts uh too because people just wanted it for their wall and and there's somebody that made a conversion kit to turn it into a topper. So, that was really cool to see as well. That's super neat. That's super neat. Um but yeah, the craft Um but yeah, the craft mod people modding mods. mod people modding mods. Yeah, Yeah, totally. We It's a whole thing. Yep. Uh, totally. We It's a whole thing. Yep. Uh, so GTP Prague definitely agrees with you. He says he has 48 toppers all in his machines. He says pinball art is important. I agree, man. Pinball pinball is art. It is a collaboration of so many different avenues of creativity into one physical freaking game. Um, but yeah, going I mean just to go back but yeah, going I mean just to go back to your comment about not being a Topper guy because we talked about this as a pre-show. I think it really comes down to like you have this thing and it represents something usually a story that you are passionate about. Uh even if you're not particularly passionate about the story yourself, you know, you you appreciate that it exists because of that. And it it can be the best version of itself. And there's a lot of mods out there. And the question you ask yourself is like, does this mod make it a better version of itself on the level that matters to me? And uh in the case of you know just to throw it out there it sounds like you're thinking about Twilight Zone with us because obviously it must do that for you on some level right? Yeah absolutely. My Twilight Zone is a absolutely. My Twilight Zone is a special game to me for a lot of reasons and I think that that's one reason that I want to make it unique and you know there's a difference between people that make mods and top like you look at car culture right like car mods are pretty good I would say like analog to like pinball mods. You know there's people that put spinny rims on their car. No. And then there's people that put like actual like things that that are that look like they belong. If you put spinny rims on your car and If you put spinny rims on your car and you're down with it, that's cool, man. I don't know. No judgment. They spin. It's cool. You know, great investment. great investment. Uh, all right. Enough enough [ __ ] Uh, all right. Enough enough [ __ ] teasing. We can talk about Let's talk about Alice. Uh, Joe wants to know if the Dutch pinball uh if they're using the topper for DLC modes in the code. So, he's making a joke. That's a stab at Stern for having locked content behind it. Obviously not. Uh let's take a look at this thing because it is very cool. So this is the design challenge here I want to say is unique because part of the topper existed already, right? Cuz you're kind of like this is like an expansion topper more than anything. Uh Uh very much. Yes. very much. Yes. So this is this is the original topper So this is this is the original topper without any modification. Um, and you said before in our other chat on uh in Before the Drain, which by the way, that's that's Rob and Davey's podcast. You should go check it out. Um, that the before the lock. before the lock. In Before the Lock. Yes. Not In before In Before the Lock. Yes. Not In before the drain. That's when I'm that's when I'm just regularly playing pinball is me draining. Uh, so there's there's LCD screens inside of the eyes of the uh of the Cheshire Cat. And that and that the metal behind it is actually a mirror, which is kind of neat. Um, but this is what your mod adds to it. And uh why don't you go ahead and talk talk us through the the text, the trees, everything that's going on here. Sure. Yeah. Um Sure. Yeah. Um well, I got to I I'll pull up a different camera uh just to kind of give you guys a little bit of background on this if you'd like to hear that first. Sure. Uh we also have the Do you want to Sure. Uh we also have the Do you want to play the promo? Do you want to talk over the promo video first in case people haven't seen that? Sure. So, this launched today. Uh we've Sure. So, this launched today. Uh we've been kind of letting people know we've had a wait list for actually like three or four months. We've been working on it for a while, but it did launch today. Uh we were waiting for me to receive my game. Uh they're they're admittedly pretty far behind on it. But yeah, so this is the video. Uh it is an official collaboration with Melvin with DPX and Dutch Pinball and Davey with Stumbler. Stumbler actually built a mod board that allows light customization to exist for any mod, which I believe is a first of its kind in the industry. And uh that was a big thing for us about why we chose to do this because we wanted to be a part of that story and and it's something that we hope a lot of manufacturers start doing is providing you know more direct access to data and lighting and power um than they are currently today uh to allow people in this industry to make cooler stuff and make these better versions of themselves. Um so this is a three-piece uh uh expansion. Uh it's a left tree, right tree, and center arch. And uh it's designed of course to to integrate directly with the design of the existing topper. So I' I've paused it here. Are you So I' I've paused it here. Are you ready? Are you ready for a quick fire round? Yeah. Yeah. So 10 10 plus swappable phrases for the So 10 10 plus swappable phrases for the sign. What are the 10 swappable phrases? Well crap. I think it's only nine now Well crap. I think it's only nine now that I think about it. Um so it comes with two. Uh that that piece of plastic that's there on the front is very easy to swap out. Uh it comes with one that says uh not all who wonder are lost, which is a famous phrase from the book. Another is we're all mad here, which everyone certainly knows from the movies. Uh oh, wow. You want me to read them off? Go. How many you got from your memory? Go. How many you got from your memory? No cheating. No cheating. Stop it, dude. I'm already done. Uh oh, Jesus. dude. I'm already done. Uh oh, Jesus. Uh, curious or curiouser. Curiouser. That's one of them. Uh, beware of the Jabberwocky or the Jabberwock. Uh I man dude I don't know that's pretty good. That's 50%. We didn't know we didn't know what the We didn't know we didn't know what the uptake was going to be on this. Uh the extra arches are 30 bucks. Uh you can get three of them for 80 which probably does seem like a lot but there's a lot of like admin and and work to do and sending off specific arches to the printer changing the boxes like getting it all in a day. It's like there's just a ton of admin work with it. So that's what they cost. Um, and we've we've sold a bunch of them. Like the most you can buy is a three-pack. We the most you can buy is a three-pack. We didn't offer a 10 pack and like everybody's buying the three-pack. So, thank you. It will add up and and we appreciate that. But, uh, yeah, I think uh, we got an app here, too. How does the we got an app here, too. How does the app interface with the the topper? Yeah. Do you want me to I can get into Yeah. Do you want me to I can get into that for sure. Um, do you want to pull it up on your own do you want to pull it up on your own here? Let's watch Let's watch the rest of the uh, promo video before we switch over to that. Okay, cool. I will talk. Okay, cool. I will talk. Rob's so excited about this. How long Rob's so excited about this. How long how long have you been working on the development of this? Uh, so we met Melvin on in before the Uh, so we met Melvin on in before the lock before they showed the game and then I met him in person at Expo when they had the game at Expo. So that would have been October 2025 and I kind of soft pitched him on the idea of like, hey, let's take this thing to the next level. And curious enough, he was like, yeah, we kind of wanted to do that, but we just kind of ran out of time or whatever. So, uh, we started concepting pretty early on. I would say we really got into it in February, so it's been, you know, four or five months. That's cool. That must be a fun That's cool. That must be a fun conversation to walk up to a pinball manufacturer and just be like, "Hey, uh, so I have an idea how to make the thing that you're doing better." Like, how do you even start a conversation like that? Actually, I soft pitched his Rens as Actually, I soft pitched his Rens as main support guy on it because I was like I was just getting to know Melvin and he's uh, you know, he's done some really cool stuff. Uh he's a he's a big collector in the hobby and is doing something really cool. Let's put it that way. And I didn't want to offend him, but he was very open to it early on. Yeah, that's nice. I mean, you got to you you that's nice. I mean, you got to you you there's no denying the fact that this looks like it's part of the game from the get- go here. It really is adds to the experience and really just kind of like naturally carries up the art style from the from the back glass. As someone who's probably never going to own an Alice and hopefully forgets to play one, uh I think it looks great. But, you know, yeah, I mean, Melvin himself was like, yeah, I mean, Melvin himself was like, I'm never going to be able to see this game without this this topper hat on. He bought five of them uh for his friends that have games. Uh he's going to be putting in the Dutch Pinball Museum soon. But it's it's really I mean, he gave me some artwork for it. Maria Keller, uh who did a all the artwork on this, she got some artwork from him to get started Dutch Pinball Museum soon. But it's it's really I mean, he gave me some artwork for it. Pinball Museum soon. But it's it's really I mean he gave me some artwork for it. Uh Maria Keller uh who did a all the artwork on this, she got some artwork from him to get started. But it is uh it is truly um just takes the game to the next level. So I'm very very proud of it. Let's put it that way. I'm going to I'm going to save the I'm going to I'm going to save the manufacturing behind the scenes stuff until after. Why don't you if you wanted to show off how the app integrates with everything. Uh let's do that running around like a crazy person. Uh running around like a crazy person. Uh but shout out to the team and Nick too. I mean like Nick uh was integral in working with uh Melvin and particularly Davey and getting the lighting to an amazing place. Uh he really pushed the boundary on the light show. So can let's talk Nick Nick who you're talking let's talk Nick Nick who you're talking about by the way for the people who don't know he did uh he did Tony Hawk uh and you met him at Chicago Pinball uh and you met him at Chicago Pinball Expo and then and then brought him in the beginning of this year right? Uh so Nick is based in St. Louis. Um, Uh so Nick is based in St. Louis. Um, and I started to see some posts on uh on Instagram where like this guy was like thanking people for giving him like empty cabinets and parts and all this type of stuff. And I was like, "Hey, what's going on here?" Like this guy's like people are giving him free stuff for this project he's working on. Um, are we still live? Yeah. Okay. I'm getting a text from somebody that died, but I think we're good now. I noticed it did say that the viewership I noticed it did say that the viewership dropped to zero, but everybody's still here, so I don't know. Twitch doing Twitch things. If you got Twitch doing Twitch things. If you got dropped, welcome back. I don't know what's going on with that. Welcome back. Welcome back. Uh, so Nick Welcome back. Welcome back. Uh, so Nick Nick uh was planning this launch at Expo and I started kind of just like trying to help him out with creative feedback. He was very tight with the idea uh for good reason. And not too many people knew about it. So I was kind of like a bit of a a muse for him, I guess you could say. And ultimately I invited him to be in And ultimately I invited him to be in our booth at Expo. uh and he he came and brought his game and showed it off there for the first time, but also we started to talk about him getting involved with working with us. He he comes from the aerospace industry and had a ton of experience with electronics and was getting into pinball on a crazy level beyond where I was. So like I I would say I think by January, which is about 3 months later, he came on fulltime with us. Cool. Uh Joe, when did we drop out? This Cool. Uh Joe, when did we drop out? This is a Reream issue for sure. I'm looking forward to dumping reream as soon as I can, which uh as soon as we get uh approved for the [ __ ] 2K beta or whatever. We're going to we're going to dump this cuz I don't know. Enough of this inconsistent [ __ ] with Reream. Anyways, welcome back everybody. We got about 50 pinball lovers hanging out here uh watching all this new [ __ ] that we're doing or that you're doing with Alice in Wonderland. So, go ahead. Let's see let's take let's take a look at the app. Cool. Okay. So, let's see how my little Cool. Okay. So, let's see how my little share situation goes. Give me a second. Got my own technical difficulties now. That's okay. This is your chance. So, That's okay. This is your chance. So, when Davey did his tour uh for his entire floor, we did it silent. That was the uh that was Davey's technical glitch. So, now you got to either one up him or one less him at this point. I heard it was it was And you guys just I heard it was it was And you guys just went on and on. No one even knew, right? I mean, I I tried to to narrate for the experience, but without being able to hear anything, it was it was pretty funny. I think I turned into Arnold Schwarzenegger for a second. I figured since Predator didn't put it in their pinball machine that I would I would try to contribute. Zing. Just kidding. I think that game's Zing. Just kidding. I think that game's going to be great. By the way, shout out. I wasn't paying attention. Something I wasn't paying attention. Something else. That's okay. I wasn't paying attention That's okay. I wasn't paying attention either. So, can you hit me on the full screen? So, can you hit me on the full screen? Uh, kind of. Uh, kind of. You asked me to. You asked me to. Yeah, this is full screen. We're good. Yeah, this is full screen. We're good. you when we were there. Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. Okay, cool. So, um, Okay, cool. So, um, so there is a specific module in the cabinet. Uh, it's Davey's LOI board system built out to a different level. It was specifically for built for this game. Um, and what it does is it controls the side rails of the game, which are an innovative feature, I think, a first of its kind. uh where you have animated lighting on the side of the game and there's also a a light strip in the shooter lane. Uh each of those have their own kind of settings uh for the game. Uh and then also the Jabberwock uh arm is controlled by the app as well. Um but what what's cool about that is it looks great from the outside, but there's not a lot of lighting like inside the game that's affected by the system, but the system does allow it to do custom lighting for modes and even for targets. Um, so this is uh this is a closeup of the topper obviously. Uh, so for those that don't know, the so for those that don't know, the Jabberwocki, the interactive portion is kind of a peekaboo solenoid uh or something on the side there that kind of sticks out. Yep. Yep. So I'll show that. So I've got Yep. Yep. So I'll show that. So I've got his app open. This is running on my phone iOS and Android app. And you'll see some light shows. So it's currently running in, I believe, the attract mode light show. But if I click um on this uh little icon on the left, I can go into rails. And now I can select from different like preconfigured light shows four different modes. So just like the light strip in your kids' bedroom or at your bar where you kind of can say like I wanted to do like chase or whatever, but that's just for that one light set. Basically like each mode is effectively its own like light set rule. So if I click on say like queen of hearts, then you'll see here there's a bunch of settings. And if I click this test icon, um, it's got to reconnect. Give it a second here. I didn't have this. I'm assuming there's synergy to the I'm assuming there's synergy to the color and whatnot that's going on the actual game modes down below. It is. And that's that's the presets. It is. And that's that's the presets. So, but you can customize it to whatever you want ultimately. Uh, it's in the case of Queen of Hearts, I think it's like a red mode that's going on on the game. So, the light show uh specifically for that. Um, we'll give it a second to load. Red. You've also got uh custom settings for the the shooter lane, which in the case of the topper is the arch. So, there's a rainbow uh light show that goes whenever the ball's sitting in the shooter lane, and you'll get a uh you'll get that same exact light show on the topper as well. So, as far for the topper, um I think there may be a little bit of a compatibility issue between me kind of running this on my phone. We'll see what happens. But basically, you can use the app to test all of the light shows. Um, and then once you're happy with where it's at, you can effectively then save it and then whenever that event happens in the game again, whether it's a target or a mode, that'll be replicated uh on the topper. So, a lot of Davey's stuff was meant for mods within the game to like really show and shine. And of course, in this case, this is a mod that just sits on top of the game. You've got little mod sections inside of You've got little mod sections inside of the topper. Exactly. Exactly. Um and and and and Exactly. Exactly. Um and and and and frankly like you know you're buying that tech whenever you buy the gain it comes included. So that's one reason that we were able to offer this at a 6 or $700 price point whereas our typical topper is somewhere between 12 and 12 and 1600. Um all right let's see if we can at least give you guys a quick example of this. So and I'm going to go to queen of heart and click test. So now you can see kind of what happens. Um, I will go to the shooter lane and say whenever the ball's in the shooter lane, which is