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Episode 57 – Tanio Klyce (Deadpool Software Ninja)

Head2Head Pinball·podcast_episode·2h 17m·analyzed·Aug 20, 2018
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 (batch) · $0.022

TL;DR

Tanio Klyce shares his path from Valve to Stern and technical innovations on Deadpool.

Summary

Tanio Klyce, Stern Pinball lead software programmer on Deadpool, discusses his journey from video game developer (Valve Software) to pinball coder. He recounts discovering pinball through Black Knight in 1981, working on custom machines, and eventually joining Stern in 2011 after impressing Steve Ritchie with a custom Metallica pinball machine. The interview covers his technical contributions to Star Trek (RGB lighting system), his transition to lead programmer on Deadpool, and the unique challenges of real-time hardware programming versus video game development.

Key Claims

  • Tanio Klyce has been working at Stern since approximately 2011, contributing to games including Star Trek, Mustang, Kiss, and serving as lead programmer on Deadpool.

    high confidence · Tanio stated he was hired by George Gomez after being recommended by Steve Ritchie, and worked on Star Trek as his first game, then Mustang, Kiss, and became lead on Deadpool

  • Star Trek was the first Stern pinball machine to have full RGB LEDs on the playfield feature lights.

    high confidence · Tanio stated: 'It was the first one to have, yeah, all the lights on the playfield were, all the feature lights were RGB.' He specified this was different from Tron and AC/AC/DC (Premium) which had light boards but not full RGB LED coverage.

  • Tanio worked at Valve Software before joining Stern, and had approximately 14 years of video game industry experience prior to transitioning to pinball.

    high confidence · Tanio stated: 'The last video game company I worked at was Valve Software' and referenced working in the video game industry for about 14 years before 2008

  • Black Knight (1981) was the first pinball machine that truly engaged Tanio as a player and sparked his initial interest in pinball.

    high confidence · Tanio said: 'The first game that really got me into pinball was Black Knight, the original Black Knight, 1981. It was at the movie theater. I grew up in New Orleans on the West Bank.'

  • AC/DC was a pivotal game for Stern's resurgence and helped the company rebuild after the 2008 recession period.

    high confidence · Tanio stated: 'That success really helped build the company up and they could start building up the team and building up the development team, building up everything.'

  • Tanio created a custom one-of-a-kind Metallica pinball machine (based on Earthshaker) in 2008-2009 that impressed Steve Ritchie and James Hetfield, leading to his hiring at Stern.

    high confidence · Tanio described the project: 'We started in 2008, March 2008, and in 2009 at Pinball Expo we showed it... Steve Ritchie was at that expo, and he played the game and was pretty impressed with how loud it was.'

Notable Quotes

  • “The first game that really got me into pinball was Black Knight, the original Black Knight, 1981. It was at the movie theater... hearing other people playing it, you hear Black Knight, like, taunting people and, you know, Play me, you know, challenge me. Who will challenge me? And for some reason that just really drove me in.”

    Tanio Klyce @ early in interview — Establishes Black Knight as foundational to Klyce's pinball passion and shows thematic/audio design impact

  • “I'd been playing video games and then working on and making video games for a while at that point for about 10 years in 2008. And I'd spent a lot of my career sitting at a computer. So for entertainment, it no longer was interesting to me to sit on a couch and play a console game or sit at a computer at home. And I wanted the social experience that I remember from when I was a kid.”

    Tanio Klyce @ mid-interview — Explains motivation for returning to pinball from video games; reflects broader industry shift toward physical play experiences

  • “In video games it's hard to light things on fire. In pinball, it's not so hard. If you have a bug in your code, it's possible for things to heat up and start smoking.”

    Tanio Klyce @ technical discussion section — Illustrates the fundamental challenge of real-time hardware programming vs. simulated game development

  • “In pinball it's all real and you're dealing with something you don't have control over at all. You've got this ball knocking around... in pinball it's more like a real-time systems problem rather than just a simulation problem.”

    Tanio Klyce @ technical transition section — Core difference between video game and pinball programming; highlights unpredictability and hardware constraints

  • “Steve Ritchie was at that expo, and he played the game and was pretty impressed with how loud it was. And, like, he was really impressed with the sound work that I'd done on it and really in the speaker system and everything. So, to me, that, like, I talked to him before, but after that, I went down in his book as a guy that, you know, had some pinball talent.”

    Tanio Klyce @ career trajectory section — Turning point in his path to Stern; shows Ritchie's role as talent scout and how custom projects can signal capability

Entities

Tanio KlycepersonSteve RitchiepersonGeorge GomezpersonBlack KnightgameDeadpoolgameStar Trekgame

Signals

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Tanio Klyce's recruitment from indie/custom pinball scene to Stern as game programmer (~2011), following successful Metallica custom machine and Steve Ritchie endorsement. Represents investment in technical talent from unconventional backgrounds.

    high · Klyce discussed being hired by George Gomez after Ritchie recommended him post-Expo 2009; followed ~2-year gap between Metallica machine (2009) and Star Trek hiring

  • ?

    design_innovation: Star Trek marked first Stern machine with full RGB LED playfield lighting; Klyce was driving force behind implementing node board system with SAM integration under engineer Andrew Pines

    high · Klyce stated: 'It was the first one to have, yeah, all the lights on the playfield were, all the feature lights were RGB' and described his role implementing RGV lighting and programming light shows

  • ?

    business_signal: AC/DC success post-2008 recession enabled Stern to expand development team and rebuild manufacturing capacity; Klyce specifically cited this as inflection point for company growth

    high · Klyce: 'That success really helped build the company up and they could start building up the team and building up the development team, building up everything.'

  • ?

    product_launch: Deadpool released with positive community sentiment following Deadflip stream event; Klyce expressed anxiety pre-launch but confirmed strong positive response

    high · Klyce: 'I was really anxious running up to the stream... But we had a great time... the response was just awesome. All the comments were very positive, and people seemed really excited about the game.'

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.092

0:00
Music Welcome everybody to the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. This is episode 57 and my name's Martin and with me... It's Ryan C. Marty, last week we said you were going to get everyone on from Deadpool. Are you ready for our first guest? I am absolutely ready. Let's do this. Okay, our next guest is somewhat of a mystery, a mystery man. We've never heard him talk on a podcast before but he's here today to tell his story. So he's been working at CERN as a programmer since 2013 I believe. He's been working on games such as Kiss, Star Trek and Mustang but now he's a software lead on the brand new CERN game, Deadpool. The guy with the coolest name in pinball, Tanyo Klyes. How you going Tanyo? It's Drew. Good. I'm doing well. Thanks a lot for having me on guys.
1:15
Thanks for joining us. So we've now obviously had Deadpool released and we've now had the Deadflip stream. So people have actually now been able to see the game and see what you've been able to do. How do you feel the response has been to the game so far?
1:30
It's been great. I was really anxious running up to the stream, going up to the stream just because I had no idea what the response would be. But we had a great time. We had most of the team in there, lots of the artists and the programmers, and we were having a good time playing it, and the response was just awesome. All the comments were very positive, and people seemed really excited about the game. That's awesome, yeah. We want to talk about Deadpool in detail, because this is why you've kind of been pushing to the spotlight at the moment.
2:05
But let's rewind it back, because as I said, you've never kind of told your story before, And I know it's a cliche to say how did you get into pinball, but I'm not sure if you want to go back as far as that first game on the Black Knight that I saw on this week in pinball. Oh, sure. Yeah, with Steve Ritchie. Or, yeah, take us there. Yeah, sure thing. Yeah, well, when I was a kid in the, I guess in the 70s, I came across some pinball machines like Evel Knievel and Kiss and things like that. But I never was good at it, and so they attracted me, and I walked up to them and played them, and they dinged, and then the ball drained, and that was it. They took my quarter. The first game that really got me into pinball was Black Knight, the original Black Knight, 1981. It was at the movie theater. I grew up in New Orleans on the West Bank. There was a movie theater that me and my friends would go to all the time, and there was an arcade around the corner. But in the movie theater, that's where all the pinball machines were. And Black Knight, it was right around the time when the Conan and the Barbarian was out and Excalibur. And all these movies, you know, and we're all playing D&D and just really into, you know, all that kind of, like, knights and barbarians and all this stuff. And so after coming out of seeing Excalibur, Black Knight is there and, like, hearing other people playing it, you hear Black Knight, like, taunting people and, you know, Play me, you know, challenge me. Who will challenge me? And for some reason that just really drove me in. Back then it was sort of like a robot. It has the sound of horses in it, like the horse galloping towards you. And even though, like back then, it was just, you know, it was very low res. It still just, it just was a very intense experience. And that game, it was the first game that had ramps in an upper play field. And just the speed of it and the fact that he kept on taunting, you know, the Black Knight character keeps taunting you and challenging you just kept me coming back. And I started developing some amount of flipper skills at that point. So that's how it got started. And from there I was playing other games like at the same movie theater. They had Flash Gordon and then they had Black Hole and then they had Haunted House.

Deadpool received very positive community response following the Deadflip stream event.

high confidence · Tanio said: 'All the comments were very positive, and people seemed really excited about the game.'

  • Tanio implemented the mode system for Star Trek and contributed significantly to RGB lighting implementation, working with engineer Andrew Pines on the node board system integration with the SAM system.

    high confidence · Tanio detailed: 'I implemented the mode system and then I implemented several of the modes like Prime Directive... I also implemented the RGV lighting for the LE and premium was a big part of my effort.'

  • “When George started on the game, we pretty much started a new game. So there's not a lot port[ed over]...”

    Tanio Klyce @ end of interview — Indicates Deadpool was built from scratch rather than on an existing engine/codebase; suggests fresh design approach

    • Stern Pinball
    company
    Valve Softwarecompany
    Pacific Pinball Museumvenue
    Wade Kraussperson
    Donny Gillies (Dirty Donny)person
    Michael Sheetsperson
    Metallicaorganization
    James Hetfieldperson
    AC/DCgame
    Andrew Pinesperson
    Lyman F. Sheats Jr.person
    Lonnie D. Roppperson
    Keith Elwinperson
    Zach Sharpeperson
    Tony DeFeoperson
    Mustanggame
    Kissgame
    The Walking Deadgame

    technology_signal: Klyce's transition from Valve game development to Stern pinball required fundamental shift in programming paradigm: from simulated physics/cheating mechanics to real-time hardware control with inherent unpredictability and thermal/power constraints

    high · Klyce articulated key differences: video games allow helper physics and programmer cheating; pinball requires dealing with uncontrollable physical ball behavior, thermal management, power draw, and switch reliability

  • ?

    operational_signal: Stern employs multi-stage testing approach: internal playtesting by sales/non-expert staff during development, beta placement in local arcades, and post-launch data collection from route machines to inform code updates

    medium · Klyce explained: 'If the game's not out on the street yet, then we get as many people as possible. We get our sales guys to play... once the game is released we'll usually get some out in some local arcades and then we can start collecting real life data.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Modern pinball rule design treated as statistical optimization problem: programmers count switch activations, track multiball frequency, and tune for target game time (~3 minutes for 3-ball games) rather than pure gameplay feel intuition

    medium · Klyce: 'we do things like count switches and look at how frequently something happens, like how frequently a multiball starts. And then we tune the rules in order to make sure that the player's having fun, but it's not too easy and not too hard.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Stern shifted Lyman F. Sheats Jr. away from system development (Spike 1/2) to focus on game code; Klyce and Tony DeFeo took on system programming load to free up top game designer talent

    medium · Klyce: 'I took on some of the Spike 1 work... Eventually we hired another fellow named Tony DeFeo who became our dedicated system guy for a while... try to free up his time so he can actually make games since he's so good at it.'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Klyce's realization at Pacific Pinball Museum that electromechanical machines implemented game state via relays/coils/wires rather than computers; influenced his fascination with pinball as engineering/design problem

    high · Klyce: 'I'd been making video games for so long, it kind of blew me away that you can actually make game state and game, you can program a game without having a computer... I'd open up the lid and I'd just look under and, like, oh, my God, that's a game in there?'

  • ?

    community_signal: Metallica custom pinball machine served as both artistic/technical showcase and talent signal to industry insiders; Steve Ritchie's positive response at 2009 Expo led directly to Stern hiring opportunity

    high · Klyce: 'Steve Ritchie was at that expo, and he played the game and was pretty impressed... After that, I went down in his book as a guy that, you know, had some pinball talent. And then once they started working on Metallica here, I guess my name started going around.'

    • 4:24
    And then they had the Atari Hercules there. Oh, yeah. After that, it sort of ended at that movie theater.
    4:32
    Yeah, that game ruined a lot of things. Ruined Cimball forever. Yeah, just like, you know, like 50 cents, you know, went from 25 to, I don't know if it was Black Knight that was 50 cents for the first time. And that was like, you know, it was a lot, but it was worth it. And then Hercules was a dollar, and so I tried it a couple times, and then it was just, it was, you know, just too big and expensive. That's how you got out of Cimball. I think it was Black Hole was probably the first 50 cent game. Ah, okay. Which was obviously interesting because it is such a brutal game that, you know, you'd put your 50 cents in and game over. Yeah, well I loved that game anyway. For some reason, yeah, I really like the difficult games. I now have Black Hole in my basement as well as Black Knight and Haunted House and Centaur, all that. And I also have some electromechanicals and I have Sterns that I've worked on and I think the only Williams DMD I have is Getaway. You're a Steve Ritchie fan. Yeah. Speaking of which, I think you said you're the first, and I'll do air quotes that you can't see, pinball that you bought was Hyperball. Yeah. Which is questionably whether it's pinball. That's what I figured. Well, I was thinking about that.
    5:48
    I mean, I know some people don't consider it pinball, but I don't know. I'm interested in the whole history of pinball, and before 1942 or 3, there was no flippers on pinball. And so I figured if those machines were pinball, like back to 1931 or 2, then Hyperball is pinball too. It doesn't have flippers, but it's got a gun, you know. But it's just as much pinball as a flipperless, at least in my opinion. But my backup answer to that, if people don't think Hyperball counts, I think the first flippered pinball machine I bought was Gottlieb Big Shot, which is an EM from the 70s. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, so after my early pinball time, I started going around the corner to the video arcade and started playing Robotron and Joust and Centipede a lot. And I eventually ended up, I was in the video game industry for a good period of time, for about 14 years. There's some part around 2008 is when I came back to pinball and it was right at the time where pinball almost went out of the external. They were in trouble and that's right around the recession. But for some reason that's the time at which I caught on to this thing.
    7:00
    Why do you think that is? As I said, you're working in the video game industry. So was it a desire to get into something that was more physical and mechanical versus, you know, were you too deep into the kind of programming and virtual experience? Yeah, yeah, pretty much. Yeah, I'd been playing video games and then working on and making video games for a while at that point for about 10 years in 2008. And I'd spent a lot of my career sitting at a computer. So for entertainment, it no longer was interesting to me to sit on a couch and play a console game or sit at a computer at home. And I wanted the social experience that I remember from when I was a kid. Like we'd go to the arcade and people take turns and it's more than just sitting in the dark or sitting in your office by yourself. And the thing that got me back into it, though, was a video game. I was sick over Christmas in 2007 or so, and I had a Sony PlayStation Portable, and I had Gottlieb Hall of Fame, which is one of the Farsight arcade games. That's really what re-sparked my interest was playing that. And at first I was playing, I think it didn't have Black Hole on it, I don't remember which games it had. I was playing the modern ones, but then I started playing, and it has Big Shot in it, and it also has some wood rails in it. And I played Big Shot for a couple days straight. Then I decided I need to go find one of these things in the real world. That led me to one thing, like finding some guy in Texas selling one that I shipped to California. And then also I discovered that I live right by, like within a couple miles of Lucky Juju, which is in Alameda, California. And it's now called the Pacific Pinball Museum. At that time it was called Lucky Juju. That is a way better name than the Pinball Museum, Lucky Juju. Yeah, and it was just a bad thing. He started out as just one back room that you rented. You'd go in this back alley and there was a neon sign that said Pinball on it and go in there and give him some money at the donation. And then there's room full of pinball machines. He started with – Michael Sheese started that place. I think he started it because he needed a place. He started collecting pinball machines because he was going to re-art them for an art project. And then he realized that they already had art on them that was really pretty cool. And so he wanted to set them up and share them with people and also just get them played so they didn't get rusty and out of order. And that grew into what's now the Pacific Pinball Museum, which is a pretty, very cool place. Now has at least three or four rooms and, or actually, well, it's pretty big. And then they have a really nice collection of wood rails and wedge heads. So when I first went there, it was mostly 70s pinball machines because that's what he was really into. And that was the first time I played an electromechanical machine since I was a kid and since I had better skills now. It was a pretty incredible experience for me because what I was really interested in, I'd been making video games for so long, it kind of blew me away that you can actually make game state and game, you can program a game without having a computer. You have, like, those things have all the logics and relays and switches and motors. And I hadn't seen anything like that before. And they'd open up the lid and I'd just look under and, like, oh, my God, that's a game in there? Like, all the logic that I've been programming for years is, like, you know, one bit of information is stored on this thing that has two coils on it and, like, a bunch of wires on it. So I became fascinated with electromechanical stuff at that point. And then I started collecting and I started hanging out there and volunteering. And I remember pretty quickly into my time at hanging out with the dudes at Lucky Juju, which that's Michael Sheets, Michael Sheets and Dan Fonts and Jem Gruber were the main guys there. I remember telling Michael, like, man, I want to make a pinball machine. And he told me I was crazy. And he was right. So that began my journey. And pretty quickly after that, he put me in touch with Wade Krauss.
    11:21
    Wade Krauss does pinball playfield reproductions. He's licensed with Gottlieb, so if you want a really great Kings and Queens playfield, or you want to sky jump or El Dorado. He makes really great stuff. But he had also done a project with Michael to do a visible pinball machine where they took Surf Champ and took the whole cabinet apart and measured it all out and Wade recut it all in, what is it? I think it's plexiglass or some sort of clear material. So they have this at the museum, a completely clear Surf Champ. Yeah. Yeah, so you can, as you play, you can watch all the motors running and everything, and it's really intriguing. So from that, Wade had gotten in touch with Dirty Donnie. They had done a project called Circus Punks before, which... So when you said you wanted to build a Pinball machine, was it the hardware stuff? Was it the software, because you're a software guy? Or you wanted to do everything? Oh, I wanted to do everything. Yeah, well, yes, I wanted to do the whole thing. I mean, I've been doing software for a long time, but I've also always been sort of an electronics hobbyist. And also I play music, and so it's, you know, sort of multimedia. I guess that's what we call it in the 90s. I've always been interested in making stuff not just out of software, not just out of art, but stuff that's sculpture or that has motion or some sort of, you know, mechanical aspect to it. So I've mostly been software, but I know some amount about electronics. Mechanical stuff I'm all right at, but I usually break things. So before we then go into the pinball, so when you were saying you're doing software, you've actually worked for some very high-profile gaming companies, right? Yeah, yeah, I have. The last video game company I worked at was Valve Software, and they're responsible. You'll know their name from Half-Life 2, Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, and also the whole Steam system, which is the... Which is why they probably don't produce that many games anymore, because they're making the other platform. Yeah, well, they have a lot of people who are making games, but they don't have to deliver them quite as quickly as everybody else, because they have a lot of games. Are you responsible, Tanya? When you left there, Tanya, is that when Half-Life 3 got cancelled?
    13:57
    I can't comment on that. Is that what you're saying, like with Valve sort of moving more to become a distributor network and not necessarily focus on producing their own games, is that kind of where you're sort of in your head you're thinking maybe I need to move on to something different? I guess I've always followed my interests. I mean I really wanted to work and be a pinball programmer since 2008. The opportunities weren't really there at the time. I mean, you know, 2008 was the, the, the, the String Factory was down to bare bones, you know, staff just to keep it alive. And since, and since then, you know, it's, it's grown tremendously.
    14:39
    I was, I got to be friends with Steve Ritchie back when he was, he was in California after, during the, the dark period of, you know, of pinball or at least the, of the 2008 dark period. And I'd met him at shows and he was, yeah, we just got to be friends and talked about pinball a lot. And then at some point he got hired back by Stern. Once Dave Peterson and the Peterson Group came in and brought some new funding and new business strategies and things like that to the company, they were able to start rebuilding it. And Steve went back, and when he went back, he said he was, he told me, like, you know, he tried to get me in here. But once he got back, he forgot about me. Not really. But the opportunity wasn't there. I mean, plus they already had the programmers they needed at the time.
    15:37
    So, I mean, they had Lonnie Ropp and Lyman Cheats, and I guess Waysan Chang was there, and Mike Kisavatt. So they had the staff they needed for the games they were putting out. But I kept on touching base with Steve over the years. And after ACDC was done, Stern, that game is still selling well.
    16:01
    It really helped. That success really helped build the company up and they could start building up the team and building up the development team, building up everything. Well I'm curious to ask that, obviously you've been a Pinball fan as well, do you think, we sort of always say I guess that moment in time was ACDC really was the turning point which put Pinball back into a bit more mainstream and therefore that's what started Stern on their new voyage I guess. What do you think it was? Do you think it was the theme? Do you think it was the layout? Do you think it was the rules? What do you think it was that was special about ACDC that really was this faith in grace? Well, there were a lot of pieces in that game that make it great.
    16:49
    I mean, the bell toy just by itself is pretty darn cool. The music, I think with Steve, it was loud. It's a big Ritchie game, right? Well, it was the loud rock concert, so that part of it was a huge win for it. And then just the whole combination of a good play field and just excellent game code, really funny dot animations. It was an interesting combination of some of the fun animations and awesome sound of Steve Ritchie as the devil.
    17:35
    To me, that brought me back to Black Knight, too. This guy taunted you. It just gets your adrenaline pumping, both the music and the energy of the speech and the whole thing. Yeah, and I guess I wanted to ask that because it is that moment in time, and I may be overstating this, but, you know, maybe without that moment in time, you might not have been working at Stern now. Yeah, that's true, and there was a moment before that in time that I would not have been working at Stern. Well, maybe I would have been, but the thing that kind of clinched the deal for me here was I worked on a custom Metallica game back in 2000. We started in 2008, March 2008, and in 2009 at Pacific Pinball Expo we showed it. I did that project with Wade Krause and Dirty Donnie, and it was a customization of Earthshaker. We took that and Wade stripped it down, sanded it, and then Donnie hand-painted the thing. And I did the electronics. The original game code is intact, but I wired some electronics to it so I could trigger Metallica music and Metallica James Hetfield voiceovers that he recorded. It was a project Donnie had done a bunch of artwork for James Hetfield and the other guys in Metallica. So he already was their favorite guy. And Donnie and Wade did the helicopters custom pin. And when James saw that, he thought it was awesome. So he commissioned this Metallica pinball machine. And it's just one of a kind. It's sitting at James Hetfield's house. It was one of one, but he allowed you to take it to a little pinball expo-style thing to show it off to the community? Is that what happens? Yeah, yeah. We delivered to him in about September of that year, which is 2009, and he let us show it to the public at that Pacific Pinball Expo that year. That might be the only time. It was at the Metallica recording studio for a while, and then he decided to bring it home. Now he has his own Sturm Pinnball machine as well, which is also quite a good Pinnball machine. Yes, it is. Nice, right? Yeah, definitely. Steve Ritchie was at that expo, and he played the game and was pretty impressed with how loud it was.
    20:03
    And, like, he was really impressed with the sound work that I'd done on it and really in the speaker system and everything. So, to me, that, like, I talked to him before, but after that, I went down in his book as a guy that, you know, had some pinball talent. And then once they started working on Metallica here, I guess my name started going around. And I contacted Steve at some point. He's like, hey, so how's it going?
    20:31
    You got anything open? And he was like, yes, yes we do. And so he put me in touch with George. And pretty quickly I flew out here and then I moved out here and here I am. Nice. So the first, when you had that call with George, what was the opening? Was it to be a programmer under the guide of, say, like Lonnie D. Rob working on Star Trek? Is that the first game you worked on? Yeah, Star Trek. Yep, Star Trek was the first game I worked on.
    21:02
    Yeah, I mean, George told me that he was hiring me to be a game programmer, and that usually starts out with you help out on other people's games, and then eventually you move into a lead position. So in my case, though, I was hoping to move into a lead. I came here to make games, but I also came here to help Stern, you know, help bring us into the LCD era pretty quickly after Star Trek. And then I helped on, I was a contributor on Mustang. And then somewhat on Kiss, I helped with, I'm a big Kiss fan, so I helped with helping the theming and the naming of shots and kind of ideas. Are you responsible for the cities, Kenya? What was it that you did for Star Trek? If you can go back just a little bit, what do you remember about what you implemented with Star Trek? Well, I implemented the mode system and then I implemented several of the modes like Prime Directive and I might have been the only one. I kept on going more towards system level things. I also implemented the RGV lighting for the LE and premium was a big part of my effort. We had like an early version of our node board system in place, and I got it to work with the SAM system, so it was communicating. I mean, Andrew Pines, our engineer, did all the hard engineering work, but I was the driving force to help make that happen and program all the light shows. Kind of bring pretty colors into the picture. Well, that was one of the first Stern Pinball machines it had. Or was it the first that had, like, full RGB under the playfield? It was the first one to have, yeah, all the lights on the playfield were, all the feature lights were RGB. Yeah. Before that, I mean, Tron and ACDC Premium LE, they have RGB lights, but this one was the first one to have, like, a full playfield of them. Does Tron have RGB LEDs? Well, it's got light boards, but not RGB LEDs, I think. I guess I'm thinking of the light pipes. Yeah. Yes, okay. Yes. Okay, so how do you go from being a video game developer to doing that? Was that for you an easy step? No, no. Oh.
    23:33
    What did you have to relearn or learn? And let's see, the first thing to learn is if you're going from video games to pinball, the first thing is that in video games it's hard to light things on fire. In pinball, it's not so hard.
    23:49
    If you have a bug in your code, it's possible for things to heat up and start smoking. So there's that. The other thing is that in video games you have control over things. You have control over physics. If you have physics in a video game, it's all simulated. So, for example, even the Farsight pinball games, they're a simulation of pinball, but they have helper stuff in there. If you make a shot and it's not quite going to go up a ramp, they'll probably help you go up that ramp by altering the physics a little bit. And in all kinds of games, you kind of have a lot of helper you can cheat as a programmer to make the game more fun because it's not fun to lose. There's no weak flippers on the pinball arcade. There's no weak flippers at all. Yeah, exactly.
    24:37
    But yeah, in pinball it's all real and you're dealing with something you don't have control over at all. You've got this ball knocking around. Like you said, you might have something that made your flippers weak. The game might be set up wrong. A switch might be malfunctioning. So it's more like a real-time systems problem rather than just a simulation problem. It's interesting you say that because I think a lot of people when they think about coders and rules designers, that really it is, it's all about rules. It's about making up modes, it's about light shows, it's about jackpots. People sort of really don't understand that a lot of what you're coding in is the actual mechanical function of the machine and that in fact you can actually do one line of code that can overheat something. And I won't necessarily say blow it up because that's probably a bit of an exaggeration. But it can really cause damage to a machine. So when you are part of a software development team, it's not just the surface, here's how the game presents code-wise. It's actually all the underlying system as well, right? Yeah. We do have sort of a, I mean, we have a system in place that as games, as it gets mature with every game and more mature with every game. And we start having more protection in there so that the game programmer doesn't have to think as much about those issues. But in general, everybody does keep that in mind. I mean, you're balancing all kinds of things. You're balancing heat because if you leave your magnet on too long, it's going to overheat. And then it takes a lot longer for a magnet to cool down than it does to heat up.
    26:22
    You're dealing with power. If you fire all your coils at once, you might draw too much power and reset your board.
    26:33
    So there's all sorts of things. Some of the controls are built into our system and some of them are not. And then the other aspect of it is you just have less control than in a video game. Like in a video game, the player runs across the screen, pushes a button, flips a switch. They accomplish some goal and then you open up to the next level and they go to the next level. And games have gotten a lot more complicated than that with open world games. But pinball, you're more dealing with the balancing of the rules I'm finding is more like statistics.
    27:10
    We do things like count switches and look at how frequently something happens, like how frequently a multiball starts. And then we tune the rules in order to make sure that the player's having fun, but it's not too easy and not too hard. It tries to hit our target of, say, like a three-minute game time, if it's a three-ball game.
    27:35
    How do you guys test that when you're all good at Pinball versus the average Joe out there? Obviously, you're not getting Keefer on and Zach Sharp to test the game. So how do you do that? Do you time their games and then divide it by 10 or something? The math doesn't work quite like that. So what we do is if the game's not out on the street yet, then we get as many people as possible. We get our sales guys to play. There, I said it.
    28:08
    No offense, guys. Yeah, and then it'll go out and then we usually put some, once the game is released we'll usually get some out in some local arcades and then we can start collecting real life data.
    28:25
    And so in a code update we'll start addressing if there's any big imbalances. Some of the guys here who've been doing this such a long time they can tell just by playing what the issues are. Like Keith, for instance, he can play and you can tell you, like, he can, it seems like the really, really top players can scale down, understand how to scale down their skill level to get a good estimate. I'm not up there with Keith and Lyman and Zach Sharp, but, so I'm still collecting data. Okay, so then how do you go from being a part of the software team through Star Trek, Mustang, I'm reading them out, Kiss Game of Thrones, Ghostbusters, to all of a sudden getting your first lead gig? Well, it's not terribly sudden. It was going to be originally, my intention was to, and the intention was for me to be a game lead a lot earlier. However, I was sidetracked by being a system programmer for a while, like after Mustang, and I helped out on Walking Dead also as a support programmer. But after that we were working towards launching the Spike 1 system and it was evident we needed more software engineering help on it and more attention.
    29:46
    And so I started working first on Spike 1 helping get that released and help support the games using it. And then quickly after that we started doing the Spike 2 system so we could get LCD support. How many people were working on that? Because I know Lyman said that he was kind of sidetracked a bit with that as well. So was it you, Lyman, and a couple of other people, or just you two together?
    30:12
    Electronics engineer, Andrew Pines, who did the design of both of those systems, he initially had a group of people he had hired. Eventually, when we started taking on ownership of the thing, I mean, Andrew's been working with us this whole time, But we took on ownership of the system software.
    30:32
    Lyman worked on it a good amount. And then I started helping on that, and I started working on it more so he could focus more on game code. So he could, I mean, he had a lot of catch-up to do. He was sidetracked, you know, he was both, we were both, he was working on Spike 1 stuff and Metallica and then Spike 1 and Walking Dead.
    30:52
    So he really needed to focus on that stuff and really, Ritchie wanted to. And so he did. And so I took on some of the Spike 1 work. Eventually we hired another fellow named Tony DeFeo who became our dedicated system guy for a while, and he helped get our Spike 2 system up and running and launched. So for a while it was – Lemon's always been involved in the system, but, you know, try to free up his time so he can actually make games since he's so good at it. Well, it's funny because it's so important, right, To build a foundation for all the machines that are coming out now and in the future. But at the same time, it's probably more fun to work on a game than to do the back-end stuff that probably doesn't tickle the boxes for you. I'm kind of happy birthday, right? Well, yeah. Truthfully, I enjoy both, and I like to have a balance. But, I mean, the system is definitely, to me, was, well, it was more difficult engineering problems to solve. And so, I mean, I've always liked challenges like that. But then I'm finding being a lead game programmer has its own set of challenges. Like, and it's a lot more squishy challenges. Like, make games fun. You know, like, that's, it turns out, you know, it's not so easy. You know, it takes a lot of work. And it's a lot of, you know, intuition and... Do you do more coding, you think, as someone who's the lead, or is it more managing, or maybe both? Both. I'm doing both. I had a good amount of time when I was pretty much the only programmer on the project, so I had a good amount of time sort of setting up the whole structure of the game, developing what direction it was going to be headed. And in the last kind of the bigger production part of the game where we have artists generating content that needs to go in and sounds that are coming in and voiceover recordings coming in, then we had more coders helping with that stuff. And so, yeah, it got larger in the end and I was spending a good portion of my time drawing up tasks on index cards and tracking things and things like that. But I still try to keep my hands in as much as I can. When you were sort of approached to be the lead developer for Deadpool, did it come as a surprise or was it something that you were sort of really either lobbying for or were in discussions and it was just a matter of time? Well, yeah, it seemed like it was a matter of time. We'd been planning for a while for me to be a lead on a project, so it wasn't a surprise. The project came up. I had been lobbying to become a lead on a project. But the theme itself came along.
    33:43
    I'll sort of broach that, I guess. Have you had to make two versions of code, or was the original code that then got changed with designer, was a lot of that stuff ported over to what you've done now? When George started on the game, we pretty much started a new game. So there's not a lot ported over. There's a lot of, yeah, it's a whole different beast. and I'm very, very happy with the direction that it went, that it's gone. Is that because the layouts were so different that the code wasn't conducive to that, or just wanted to start afresh? Yeah the playfield really has a lot to do with the structure of the game Originally we thought that maybe we be able to save some of them There definitely are pieces that come from game to game that are common between the games And we have a system framework that's shared by all the games and then we have a game framework that's been maturing, like the way modes work and things like that. But as far as the rules of the game, they're all made directly for this play field. And a lot of the theme, I mean Deadpool, the thematic stuff, George had some really great ideas for the direction for Deadpool that I liked a lot. They announced that you guys had scriptwriters, so did they come in more towards the end, or were they there from the start when George took over the project and you decided to start afresh? They came over much later in the development. It's usually best to do it after you've made it. Everything, the play field drives the rules and then the rules drives everything else. And if we had brought in somebody early on, it would probably not have been a good use of time. So they're designing a story around your rules and not the other way around? You're not designing the rules around their story? Well, actually, the story was developed, kind of the structure and everything of the story and what the modes are going to be were all done in-house by myself and George and other team members. And then what we provided to Brian Possein, who kind of gave the voice to the game, was a full structure. Like, here's all the pieces. Like, at this point, we need the ball sitting in the shooter lane, so we need Deadpool to say things. They kind of taunt the player and here Deadpool is going to be running away from a T-Rex. So what does Deadpool say in that situation? We provided that kind of structure to him and then he just filled it out completely.
    36:25
    The script that we got back, we gave him kind of a skeleton and what he gave back was the meat. Yeah. So let's talk about Deadpool rules. So what is the story? You're Deadpool, you're hanging out in your basement with your friends playing his own game, which is quite funny. Sea Witch in the background, is it Flight 2000? What's the other game there in the background next to Colossus? Yeah, we've got Colossus back there. So there's a Flight 2000, there's a Quicksilver. The Colossus is actually playing a Quicksilver. Okay, yeah. You can only see the top corner of it when he's playing it because he's quite big. Yeah. You've got some arcades in there as well. Yeah, we've got Frenzy and Berserk, I believe. Yeah, so he's hanging out in the, that scene is called the Hell House. In the comics, the Hell House is a place where mercenaries hang out, and it's kind of like a clubhouse, and whenever jobs come in for mercenaries to do, they'll go up and take the job and go out and do it. So we turned that into the Hell House Arcade, and he's there hanging out with his buddies, who are Colossus and Wolverine and Dazzler and Domino. And so that's kind of the base of operations when you're in the main play. Before you start any mode, you're hanging out at the Hell House, and that's where you always come back to. You've got to defeat all the villains, and you can get your psychics to help you along the way. Is that where the difference is going? Yeah, team-up. Yeah, so that's a team-up feature.
    38:10
    There's four of those team-up characters, and each one has a shot associated with them. So during main play when you're in the Hell House, you shoot the left orbit. That's the Dazzler shot, and there's a Dazzler spinner, and on the LE Premium there's also a disco ball associated with her. So that shot will collect Dazzler as a team-up character, and then Wolverine is right up the center spinner. Colossus is on a shot that I call the inner loop, the Colossus inner loop. It's underneath the left ramp. It's a little bit difficult to see from above, but it's a pretty neat shot. It's right to the left of the scoop. You shoot in there and it turns back around and hits a target that's kind of back tucked behind by the pop bumpers. And then the right orbit is Domino. So once you shoot each one of those shots a couple times, that will qualify them to be team-up characters. And then when you go into the scoop, which is the Hell House scoop, you go in there and you can start a battle. And if you've collected, say, Wolverine as a team-up, then he'll help you in the battle. Whenever you hit his shot, he'll jump in and do a bunch of damage to whoever you're fighting, and then he also brings an extra ability to the game, to each mode. It's like an advanced way of doing, say, Crank It Up or Away Team, right? It's more points, plus it's adding a different element to the mode as well. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And each character adds a different type of ability, or a different type of kind of like a power-up. Can you qualify your team-ups during the mode? So can you start a mode and then hit a couple of shots associated with the member and they jump in halfway? Or does it have to be qualified before you start the mode? You have to qualify them before you start the mode. Okay. And they only come into the battles.
    39:56
    So there's three battles. Those are the fighting game modes. And you're fighting against Juggernaut, Mystique, and Sabretooth. So when you're not playing those modes and you're in main play, you are qualifying your team-ups to bring into it. So what's the difference then between the modes, so those modes you just talked about, the three, and the time machine ones? The quests. Yeah, the time machine quests. So the way you qualify a battle is you complete the dead targets on the left, and then you go and scoop. That lights battle up the scoop. To qualify the quest, you hit the right orbit a certain number of times, and that shot is also the chimichanga truck shot. Once you hit that shot, it spreads chimichangas all over the playfield, which everything lights up as orange shots. And once you collect enough chimichangas, I think right now we have it set to four. I think if you collect four chimichangas, that will qualify a quest. And that chimichanga truck also doubles as the time machine. So once you go in the scoop, you can choose to go on a quest. And if you do that, then you go on a quest with Cable. He's sending you off into some treacherous situation in the past to collect DNA from one of the prehistoric creatures, either from the Megalodon or from the T-Rex.
    41:19
    And those items that you're collecting are leading up towards you need those in order to get to the Mr. Sinister final wizard mode. Is it refreshing to kind of have this much material to work on versus like, you know, I know this is your first link, but something like KISS which is more broad so there isn't necessarily a story behind KISS besides just kind of completing the modes. Is it refreshing to have this much content to work with, this much freedom? Yes, yeah, it is. It's been a great opportunity. Marvel's been very willing to let us create new ideas, new stories, new stuff within the realm of their comic book universe. So some of the stuff is inspired by their comics. Yeah, they gave us quite a lot of freedom as long as we submitted it to them and they approved it. But, yeah, it's been great because we can have Deadpool talking directly to the player and we can, instead of trying to search through a bunch of, you know, looking for the right line from a movie or from a TV show.
    42:28
    You can make it up. Yeah, exactly. So it's, and we've done a lot of making up of stuff on this game. It's been a, like everybody, there's been a lot of people involved, a lot of ideas coming from lots of places. Have there been any pushback on any of the stuff? Yeah, there's been pushback. There has been, but once we've kind of gotten the zone and figured out what the constraints were, there was quite a lot of freedom within those constraints. They've been pretty happy with the content that we've been generating. Was Little Deadpool part of the whole Deadpool thing, or is that something that's introduced here? I'm not that familiar with the comics. Little Deadpool shows up in the comics as, especially in the, I'm not sure when he started, but around, I know in 2012 is when Brian Posehn started writing for the Deadpool comic. And in those comics, he's on like the first page of the comic, there's Little Deadpool and he's introducing, or he's giving you a synopsis of what happened last time in the last comic. So we glommed on to him just as our centralized character toy. I mean, sort of as the – we've got Deadpool as the guy who's the smart mouth, and he's a little bit antagonizing. Sometimes he's your buddy, and sometimes he's insulting you. And then Little Deadpool is more of just a friendly cheerleader kind of character and cute and funny and sometimes raunchy but not too much. But in the process of flushing out his character, I think Marvel, they picked the voice for him. It's sort of like the first time that this character has been given a voice in the Marvel universe, which is kind of neat. Yeah, that's cool. You touched on the word raunchy before, so the question on a lot of people's lips, obviously because Deadpool has been pushed into the spotlight after the movie. I mean, it existed for a while, and I'm sure in the comic universe it's very popular, but I guess it was only until Ryan Reynolds released his character, and it was one of the first R-rated Marvel movies, I think. Yep. Yep, and it did really well, and people have been on the forums saying, I hope there's an R-rated mode. And is that something that exists at Stern or got put on the table or is what's in there and the kind of the general skill that we got from the stream, is that the direction that the machine's going in? Yeah, the direction the machine's going in is what you saw on the stream. We did discuss that. Marvel really wanted us to make something that was family friendly. And we also wanted to do something that people can put in their basements and play with their kids and can reach out to a young audience as well as the older audience. So we pushed the boundaries a bit, but not like Ryan Reynolds did. I mean, I've never read a Deadpool comic, so is he that kind of in your face and already in the comics, or is that just something that Ryan Reynolds pulled out for the movie? You know, if I go back in the comics and look for, you know, the comics can be pretty raunchy, but they're not as far as the movie. It's probably more tongue-in-cheek stuff than actually talking about his penis shrinking down and masturbating and stuff like that. Why? Why? It's part of the movie. I was just saying, okay, sure.
    45:58
    Yeah, I'll have to get back to you on that and do some research. I mean, they show him like, you know, he's in different situations. He's on the toilet a lot more in the comic books than in the movie, I think. But, yeah, no, the movie's a lot raunchier than the comic, but the comic is raunchier than our game. So where the code is right now and what you do. So game release, I'm curious to know whether the pace at which you need to work is the same post, I guess, release. or whether it actually has to ramp up because it's getting into people's hands. You've now got the time ticking when you have to do enhancements or bug fixes, etc. Or is it still just the same pace for you? Well, the pace getting to the stream was pretty, what do you call, aggressive.
    46:51
    I mean, I've had a lot of time on this project, but the artists didn't. So we ended up getting a lot of, like, we were prepared for it all with storyboards and script and everything, but it ended up where all the content, a lot of content actually generated in the later months of the project. So it's been pretty hectic getting all that stuff in there. So leading up to the stream was hectic, and I'll probably get some sleep this weekend, but, you know, I know there's also games probably going to be hitting the streets very soon, so I know I've got a lot more work to do. So it's kind of a balance that, you know. And how far along the code do you think it is? I've got more to do. I think that's one of those questions that always gets me in trouble if I answer. Yeah, I understand. But I guess I do have lots of, you know, sleepless nights over the next couple of weeks, or can you still just sort of pace yourself? Well, over the past month or so, it has been pretty sleepless. I'm hoping to get some sleep, and then we'll see how this, you know, once it's out there. Usually there's a pretty tumultuous period after the game gets out, like people find things that we didn't notice. I definitely, I mean, I think it's got a good amount in there to keep people entertained for, you know, for a while. But there's definitely lots left to do. There's lots of things that need to be polished that need to be polished, and there's some things that need to be added that are on the plan. So, I mean, I'll be working on it until it's done, and I'll be working hard. How long have you been working on it, like, overall, do you think? You know, it's all a blur at the moment. But it's a leading question to when you first said, right, they come and said, right, you're a lead programmer, this is what it's going to look like to what it is now. Do you think you've actually delivered on what you thought you were going to deliver when you first took on the program? Or has it had to take quite a few pivots and detours? Well, I had a lot to learn on this project. So there was lots of ideas that came and went. And we tried a lot of, or we tried lots of things. I'm happy with the idea of the fighting game aspect of it for the battles. We came up with that pretty early on, and that was a lot more challenging to actually implement than I had assumed. I've worked on many video games in my life but never made a fighting game from scratch. And this is sort of an adaptation of a – it's not exactly a fighting game. It looks like a fighting game, but it's actually a pinball game that drives these characters. So that was a pretty big, it was more of a challenge than I thought it was going to be. But I'm happy with how it turned out. It was a lot more of a challenge along the way than I thought it was going to be. Is there a video mode in here? I'm guessing possibly not because there's no insert for it and there seems to be one programmer pushing that at the moment. But there are video games in the story and they're in an arcade so is there a plan for it? It's ironic isn't it? Yeah.
    49:52
    I currently don't plan to put a video game, a video mode in. You're almost simulating one with the Katana Rama one right? It's kind of like a bit like Fruit Ninja and that's almost like a mini video game but you're playing it with the ball right? You can say that yeah. And also, I mean, the fighting game is a bit of a video game, too. You actually are making shots to make Deadpool attack the character. So I think there's, yeah, to me there's plenty of video, you know, the game doesn't cry out for more video mode content. I don't like video modes.
    50:26
    I'm just asking for the people that are curious out there, so you don't need to convince me. No, no, no. We're fine without them, thank you. I'll be happy to put some in if I have some free time. Which doesn't sound like you do. The question that I really want to ask, which I guess you didn't do the hardware for it, but you're programming it. The disco modes. We saw the disco modes on the stream with the pro, but obviously for the premium and the alley it's going to be a little bit different because the disco ball is there and it'll spin around. Where is the light being projected from to hit the disco ball? And are you dimming all the lights? So what's that going to be like? Hopefully you guys will be able to see. I'm not sure why I'm showing videos of that, but there are some pretty cool spotlights that are just single small LEDs.
    51:22
    This is the first time we were using them. And one of them is hidden behind Wolverine and the other one is hidden behind Dazzler. They're tiny and they're very directional and they do a really good job of projecting the light.
    51:36
    And then, yes, I'm dimming the GI and the playfield lights a bit so you can see the projection, but I'm pretty happy with the effect. I can't wait to see what it looks like. Yeah, I mean, if your room isn't like fully bright, you'll see some disco lighting on your walls and stuff coming out of the playfield. It's pretty impressive. I mean, you know, it helps turn all the lights off in the room to really get the full effect, but even with lights on, you can see the disco lighting going around. It's pretty cool. And then on the LE Premium, you also have the left orbit turns into a whole loop shot. On the Pro, there's a passive gate, so you can never make a left loop shot, and it goes up with the pop bumpers. But on the Alien Premium, it opens up that gate and then it comes down to there's a ramp that will go down and divert the ball back to the flipper. And so there's like a disco loops mode coming in the Premium Alien.
    52:37
    Yeah, exclusive mode. And it's got disco lights, it's got disco music. Talking about music, you worked with Jerry Thompson on this one and he's gone all out with the different types of sounds. On ACDC you get ACDC music, Metallica you get Metallica music. On Deadpool you get everything, right? You get R&B, hip hop, country and western, disco, what else? Dumb Steph. Yeah, we got rock, we got all kinds of stuff. So what plays when you first go up to the game and you press start? Is it a random track that's playing?
    53:19
    Let's see, we've got a couple of things that we'll play randomly selected when you're just sitting in the shooter groove. And then once you plunge, there's a set of different songs that play during main play. And we have a lot to choose from, thanks to Jerry. You'll hear different songs during main play, and then each battle has its own song, each quest has its own song. The disco modes have several different disco songs. And then also the little Deadpool bash toy has music associated with him as well. Is he the dubstep one? Because when you hit Deadpool, that's when he starts going doof, doof, doof, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly, yep.
    53:57
    He's one of the dubstep ones. There's some lighter dubstep that happens like in just the main play. You'll get some dubstep every once in a while. Have you balanced out? Have you done that yet? Have you balanced out? I didn't watch the entire stream. A little Deadpool multiball because George Gomez said he wanted to make a really accessible multiball. Hit the targets down, hit the bash toy, the targets go up, and then hit any of the three targets and you're in a two-ball multiball. Is that accurate? That's accurate. Yeah, that's accurate for the first time. Do you have to get all three targets down or can you hit, say, the middle one and then squeeze a shot through? Oh yeah, yeah, you can squeeze the shot through, yeah. Okay. Yeah, and I'm planning on putting, right now you get the same amount of points no matter how you do it, but I'm planning on making it so that if you can get the bash toy target with just one target down, you'll get a lot more points. Oh wow, that's cool. It's almost like the anti, I know Simpsons had that kind of rule where on the first Itchy and Scratchy, You can kind of squeeze a ball in there and it'll give it to you. But then after that, if you manage to get into the score star without getting all, you know, you've only left one target up, it'll kick the ball out and reject it and you have to start again. So it's almost the opposite of that because it will require more skill to get it in there and hit that target, right, with the target still standing up. Yeah, it won't be a requirement, but yeah, you'll have the opportunity to use skill to get a lot more points, definitely. Right now I'm going to need to rebalance a little bit because the second time is still probably too easy to get him so probably make some changes to that rule so that he, right now, I think Jack Danger was exploiting him a little bit on the screen.
    55:48
    He got a tap on the shoulder. Yeah, he was sold to Drain his balls because I think he was going to uncover some secret stuff.
    55:55
    No comment. I just assumed that he was getting close to maybe something that wasn't either quite coded in or wasn't quite functional. That was just my assumption. Well, it could also be they don't want to show up because it's so cool and there needs to be mystery money. Yeah, fair enough. I can't assume.
    56:13
    So what are the rules, sorry, of Little Deadpools? Because, you know, I saw people building up a Super Jackpot, but I'm not sure if I saw anyone cash it in. So what's the objective of the Little Deadpool multiple? You pretty much nailed it. Currently, there's three stages to it. First, you hit them several times. The second one is you build up a jackpot by hitting them that you can collect on the ramps. And then the third one is still under construction, which is going to be spinner related. Okay, cool. And Ninja Multiball, every time you hit the pop bumpers, I think a Ninja will come down and then you hit a shot to defeat the Ninja and that adds to your Ninja Multiball jackpots. Then once you're in Ninja Multiball, what are the rules for that? You're just hitting certain shots to get jackpots? Yeah, in Ninja Multiball, yeah, exactly. So the pop bumpers during main play are Ninja Pops, and so you get past a certain number of pop hits and Ninjas spawn, and they're blue shots. And once you hit those, then you're collecting Ninjas and you're building up your Ninja jackpot, as you said. All the shots are lit to start, and they're all jackpots, except for the right ramp shot, the right shot katana that crosses over to the super jackpot shot. So you can shoot that at any time, but the more jackpots you collect, the bigger that super jackpot's going to be. So you've got two different skill shots. You've got the skill shot where you plunge all the way around and you try and hit the katana ramp. But you've also got the hands-free skill shot up the top where I think you choose which lane you want and you plunge and you can't alter, you know, you can't just move the shuttle around because that would be too easy. Kind of like Ghostbusters and we also saw it on Total Nuclear Annihilation. So what I didn't see on the stream, what's the payoff for that since there's four lanes, probably pretty hard to hit that shot. What does that start? That's a points award currently. So it's a, yeah.
    58:26
    Okay. I heard currently. Currently it's points, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Triple Spooky Jackpot. This is where everybody's going to pop up. The boom button.
    58:39
    You know, some people don't like buttons on Pinball machines. I like them because it adds different elements to the game. And right now you spot the inlanes in the middle, sorry, down the bottom to spell boom. That lights the boom button. Boom will spot you a shot when you're in a mode, is that right? Boom button. So, yeah, the rule is you complete the bottom lanes which are to spell boom. Each time you do that, you collect a bomb, and that lights the boom button. And so the first three times you collect it, you get a small bomb, but if you hold off and you get four of them, then you get a super bomb. If you hit the boom button with just one of the smaller bombs, then you get a single shot. You get a signal to war, the most valuable thing on the playfield.
    59:26
    Playtime just does everything. Please tell me that's the way you guys are doing it. That is where I'm going, yes. Yes. Superbomb does everything. That's so good.
    59:37
    We're balancing it some. Initially, a small bomb could give you a super jackpot and ninja multiball, which was just way too powerful. So we're doing some balancing and trickery and stuff. But yeah, the super bomb will give you everything.
    59:54
    That puts a smile on my face. That's really cool. That's the risk-reward, right? Do you use the bombs that you currently have or do you save it to get a bigger payoff? That's cool. Okay, the multiplier. There's 2x, 3x, 4x, and 5x. From my understanding, the only way to get this is to hit that stand-up target and get it to go up the ninja ramp. Am I right in saying that? Yeah, that's called the snicked target. Okay. Yeah, you make a snicked shot and that'll increase your playfield multiplier. And is that available during, like, multiball and everything, or is that locked into normal mode play? Still working that out. But right now it's available all the time. Okay. So, like, I mean, you talked about before about kind of like video games versus Pinball and statistics and stuff. So, I mean, like to program that in, you have to guess, I guess, set a timer from one switch hit to another. And, you know, it can't be like three seconds or something. It has to be like within a certain amount of milliseconds. That means that you've made that shot because there's no camera. The Pinball doesn't know except for the timing of the shot, right? Right, yeah, exactly. We put a timer, you hit that target, and then you set a timer going for half a second or so, and then you see there's a ramp opto right up the ramp. So if you hit that within that time period, then you've made that shot. Yeah, okay. It's a pretty cool shot, too. It doesn't seem like it's going to... It's a makeable shot, which is pretty cool. It's not easy, but... Well, before the stream, I thought it was just maybe a payoff for if that shot rejected, because it might look like a hard shot, it would kind of hit that and award you something. I didn't think of it as a bankable shot.
    61:45
    There's also Xs on each one of the lanes. I just noticed that now. I'm not sure if that was explained on the stream. I might have missed it.
    61:54
    Are they shot multipliers for certain shots? No, they're actually, yeah, those are weapon targets, so they're not really, they're X-shaped, but they're not Xs, they're not traditional shaman pliers. Okay, that makes sense. They're little swords, aren't they? So those are weapon shots, and they work as a combo type rule, in that you hit one shot, and then the combo-able weapon lights will light up, and then you hit those. And once you hit one of them that's lit, your weapon jackpot gets lit at the scoop.
    62:32
    So you can go collect that weapon jackpot, but the more of those combo shots that you make, the bigger your jackpot's going to be. So that's another round. Is that kind of like the end of the line on Tron, where you've got the jackpot that kind of builds up at the scoop, and it kind of stays there all the time? There's no timer or anything at the scoop. It's just kind of him. Right. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. The jackpot doesn't, yeah, it's there for you to collect. It doesn't go away. Maybe it goes away after you drain the ball. That's TBD.
    63:08
    There's a lot of rules here. There's a lot of rules here, Tanya. Oh, ugh. And for what you've seen with people playing it now, are people playing the game and going through the game with its rules in the way that you set out or are you being surprised by how people are playing it? We didn't really plan out a certain order or anything. We set it up more like there's different ways to play it or different things to focus on. Like if you can focus on going through battles and going up to completing the battles and then doing Saren multiball, or you can focus on locking balls for Ninja multiball, or you can focus on shooting Dazzler to start Disco multiball. So there's different kind of like mini modes around the play field associated with different shots. And then there's also modes that are, you know, qualified mode, go in the scoop. So the goal is to have it so that people can, you know, pick which directions they want to go. And they have lots of kind of strategic choices to make or some of them have strategic choices to make to maximize their points. But also that a casual player can walk up to it and get something cool out of it. The little Deadpool backstory is there for casual players to be able to get a multi-ball and have something fun to interact with. And then the challenge there is also making that something really cool for pro players too.
    64:36
    Is there any strategy, you talk about strategy with the modes, besides fighting a different battle, is there any differentiation? Would I choose to fight Juggernaut over Sabertooth? Is there an advantage to that? Are shots easier or harder? Yeah, they will have. Right now, the way it's balanced, I'd say Mystique's the hardest and Juggernaut is the next hardest and then Sabertooth is currently the easiest one to complete. Shooting, each one has a different flavor to it. In Sabertooth, you're hitting the two orbit shots and the center spinner shot a lot. But Juggernaut, there's several phases. You start out by hitting the drop targets on the Deadpool targets to get them into a stun state, and then you're hitting shots. And then Mystique, it's more a different set of shots. But, yeah, as far as point strategy, that kind of stuff is sort of still under development. But, yeah, the goal is to have strategic choices like what team-up characters you want to bring into each mode and then what order you play it in, whether you decide to play battles or you decide to play multi-balls and that kind of stuff. Well, it's like you said, it's a balancing act after the game comes out because you don't know, you know, you're a decent Pinball player but you're not Keefe Elwin, you're not Jack Danger so you have to watch them and balance it out. And would you also be getting a lot of feedback, now that Stern's got so many great players as part of the team, are you getting sort of feedback from them around points and scoring? Oh, definitely, definitely. Yeah, actually, yeah. Well, Tim Sexton recently joined, and he's a really good player, and he's been helping, he's been programming on the game and helping with rules quite a bit. So we've got him, and then Keith's been playing, and Mike Vinicor is our primary play tester, and Zach. So they all give feedback, and they all give suggestions. So I would say that I'm not the strongest rules guy in the house for sure. And so I've definitely tapped the vast amount of talent that we have in this house, in this place. You have to put both hats on, right? You have to put the programming hat on to also, you know, Mr. Manager.
    66:54
    There's lots of hats to wear, yeah. Yeah, I mean, this project, since we wrote a pretty large script and we have created a bunch of art assets that were pretty original, it was a pretty large project. Lots of people contributed to it. So, yeah, I've been wearing a lot of hats and I've also been relying on a lot of the other talented people here. All right. So since you're the lead on this, does that mean that you're not involved with any other project while that's going on? Because, you know, you said you worked on KISS and when we get the CERN Union updates, you know, it says, yes, KISS code is coming and that.
    67:35
    Do you ever take a break from Deadpool to work on little code updates here and there or is that more for other people that aren't the lead on the new project? Yeah, when you have a game come in to hit the line and hit the streets and stuff, yeah, my focus is completely on Deadpool, and it has been for this whole year and a little bit longer. Each lead sort of takes turn of being in the hot seat, and then while I'm doing this, other people have had time to work on code updates, And we're in a good place now where we have a really pretty full staff of software engineers, which like we were playing catch up for a while there and now we're getting pretty far along. At the same time we were playing catch up on games, we're also developing these new systems, which is really hard. That's another thing I wanted to ask you about. I mean, like Spike 1, Spike 2, you know, the LCD, is there, you know, you work at Steam, you know, Video games is on a different level than Pinball and Pinball doesn necessarily need to be anywhere near that level because it more a mechanical thing but do you see the social side of video games right now with people playing you know Minecraft and any game You know there hardly any single games Do you see Pinball as a platform that, you know, with the technology that you have now with the Spike system, you know, online leaderboards and things like that, do you see that in the realm of possibility at CERN? Or is that still not in the picture because of the catch-up you've had to do with getting code done on the other machines and LCD, etc.? Yeah, I don't know if I can talk about what we have planned for the future, but we have big plans for the future.
    69:30
    My question was 10 times longer than your answer. Yeah, I mean, getting to the point where we have an LCD screen and a whole tool set where we can play video and create content in different packages like Flash and animation tools and things and then choreograph it all on the screen has taken a lot of effort to get to this point. And not only, unlike the video game industry, we not only developed like sort of our own engine for doing this stuff, but also we developed the hardware for doing it, which is a little bit more like, you know, well, it's a little bit more like in the video game world. That would be Sony and Nintendo and Microsoft developing a new game system. So it's been a lot of work.
    70:18
    Yeah. But it's been pretty cool. I mean, I'm really happy with how our system has come out and with how our games are coming out. I feel like we have a really good momentum now. That's the word on the street now. So everyone's saying Stern's kind of finally hit this, right? And I know it sounds horrible, but, you know, the game that you were the lead on was meant to be, you know, the game after Iron Maiden. And I know it sounds negative, but it's not that anymore. It has its own identity. Yeah, pretty cool. It's never going to be at the stage where, yes, the code is 100% complete, but the foundation of the game, in my opinion, is solid, and it's the solid foundation for you to build on. And, you know, I guess from now on in you just have to keep on polishing, polishing, polishing until you're satisfied with the end result, right? But what's there is great already, and it looked like a lot of fun. It was very entertaining, and there's a lot in there. There's actually a lot in there already. Is there a name for this? Is it the Super Boom? What's the boom called, the 4X boom, whatever it's called?
    71:50
    Huh, that's a good question. Ultra boom. Yeah, it's called ultra boom. Done. Boom apocalypse. Quadra boom. I haven't thought of that yet. Quad assembly boom. Octa boom.
    72:10
    Big boom. That's a good question. I haven't thought of that yet. We've been calling it the Super Bomb, but, you know, the Super Boom. But I kind of like Nick Ultra. We have Nolan North to say, can you please say this is on the tank.
    72:26
    Exactly. Yeah, we're keeping a list of those things. Well, thanks for coming on the show. Unless you have another story to tell us about all the hidden gems that are coming in the book machine. We thank you for coming on. As I said, it's the first time you've ever been on a podcast, a pinball podcast, I believe. So thank you for sharing your story and congratulations for what we've seen so far and good luck.
    72:53
    Yeah, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, it's really good to be here. I mean, I was going through in preparation for this, I was going through like, when was it I started like, you know, wanting to make a pinball machine? It was 2008, so it's been 10 years.
    73:11
    And making pinball at that time, it seemed like it was going to be a lot easier. A lot of people do. These are the kinds of conversations that we have all the time with people where they think it's actually easier than it is. And I don't think that's black and white. They think, oh, geez, it's really easy. But I don't think there really is appreciation. And that's why I was bringing up that part before. When you're doing code, you're actually talking about the mechanics of the machine and keeping it running safe as well. The complexity of making these things is potentially lost on us because we just want to make sure that it shoots good, it sounds good, and it's got rewarding rules, right? Yeah. Sorry, last question. I know I've already liked to thank you and everything, but how many balls does Deadpool have in the trough? Oh, in the trough? Six. Thanks. It's almost like the Stern standard now, right? Six balls in there just for... Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, yeah. It's just, when I watch the stream, it's such a frantic game, like there's just so much going on and so many sounds all at once, kind of like Ion Maiden.
    74:16
    And, you know, it took me a while while playing Ion Maiden to really kind of hone in what's going on, because I can usually tell what's going on in the Pinball machine from the sounds. But there's so many kind of new sounds and using like the, you know, firepower sounds and, you know, like a retro-esque sound. So was that your direction that you wanted to go in, or was that Jerry or George? Like, who pulled the string on that one? Firepower is my personal favorite game, and the sounds from the Williams games of that era are just, they're kind of embedded in my brain. You know, they just make me happy when I hear them. But George really kind of drove it. I don't know, maybe it was a combination of George and I, but really George was like, yeah, we've got to have 80 sounds in this game. And I was like, of course we do. Yeah, let's totally do that.
    75:02
    And like let's put 80s games in there. And then some of it just kind of blossomed. A lot of people on our team, like Chuck Ernst, who's our animation director, he's totally into retro games too. And then we have some of the artists who are young whippersnappers. They're into like the kids these days are drawing pixel art and stuff.
    75:24
    So everybody was excited about it. So it just kind of grew out of a team thing. It's been a lot of fun, man. And I want to give a shout out to Tim Sexton. He's really put a lot of energy into this game too. There's lots of great people on this project. He also did a great job on the stream introducing the Pinball Maiden and going through the rules. That was actually the first time I went, hey, Timbal, that's you. You're actually now out there. It was really cool. Yeah, he did a great job.
    75:58
    He's good at that stuff. I didn't really stutter a lot or whatever, but Tim's good. He brought a lot of cool energy to the whole company too. It's been really neat with Keith coming in and Zach Sharp and Tim and some of the new artists and stuff like that. It's neat to see a mixture of new folks and older folks and people in the middle and stuff. It's a really exciting place to be, I've got to say. And I'm proud to be part of it.
    76:32
    I really am. Every Stern employee says it and it must be true. I don't think you guys are saying it. It's up to your employees. When Jerry Thompson was on, he was just saying he really enjoys his job because people are passionate and it's very easy for someone to say that CERN or a different company is more passionate than CERN because they're a smaller team. But that doesn't really hold true, right? I mean, you guys are just as passionate as everyone else because you guys are producing machines, right? And you're not working a nine-to-five job and clocking out and going out with your mates. You're probably putting in like crazy hours at the moment because this is your base, right? Yeah, exactly. I also want to say thanks to Steve Ritchie. I'm probably here because of him, I guess, because it was Black Knight and then because we became friends and then he recommended me. I've heard people say, never meet your heroes. I'll tell you, I'm happy to have met my hero, Steve Ritchie. He is a very passionate man about pinball. He's a lot of fun to work with. He's hilarious. He's quite a force of nature, man.
    77:48
    So it's really exciting to work with him and with George Gomez and with all the folks here. Awesome. All right, Tanya. Thank you so much for coming on, man. Yeah. Next thing you lead on, open invitation to come on the show. Oh, thank you so much.
    78:04
    All right, mate. Have fun. Take care. Bye. So there we go, Ryan. That was Tanya Klaas. It just doesn't sound the same, but you can just say what did we learn?
    78:18
    What did we learn, Ryan? Ah, he's a cool guy. He's been waiting a long time to do this, so I hope we can deliver on what his vision of the Pinball Machine is going to be. So, I enjoyed watching the stream. I haven't watched it from the start to finish. I've watched some little bits. Marty, did you notice that an increasingly common thing is that they all wear really cool T-shirts with hidden funny messages. Have you noticed that, Marty? There was a lot of T-shirts. Well, there was a lot of people there and a lot of T-shirts. So, you know, there was Josh Sharp with the Stern Pro Circuit. There was some guy, sorry, I don't know his name, with the Straight Down the Middle T-shirt. You know, pretty easy to know. Josh is a fan of Stern Pro Circuit. Straight Down the Middle guys is a fan. of Greg and Zach.
    79:07
    What else can we deduce from these shirts? Well, Jack Danger was wearing a Deadpool costume. Yeah, yeah. I think he wanted to show off his pecs and his package down below. Well. Yep, in tight clothes. That's right, absolutely. There was a guy wearing a Rick and Morty T-shirt, Marty. What do you think that means? Well, it means Rick and Morty confirmed. Okay, yep, yep, for sure. They got Jack Dangers dressed up as Deadpool, but they also got a full-on ninja to come as well. I'm not sure who that guy was, I'm sorry, but there was a ninja there working for Stern, I think.
    79:46
    So, Tanyo, Keith and Tim, they were in Deadpool t-shirts and hats. Yeah, yeah, and they're fans, obviously, yeah.
    79:57
    And Zombie Yeti had a Cuphead t-shirt, was it? Yeah, I think that means that Stern's going to announce soon a new collaboration with Microsoft Studios and they're going to make it insanely hard and impossible to beat the normal machine.
    80:11
    That sounds like Cuphead, right? Yeah. Mike Vinical was wearing a Cobra T-shirt. I don't think it was Cobra Kai, but what can we deduce from that money?
    80:21
    That they've got a Karate Kid. Yep, Copper Kai. Karate Kid's 1980s, Copper Kai is the new in-thing, so Copper Kai confirmed. And one of the most noticeable ones, Marty, that kind of stood out was there's a guy there, Chuck, was wearing a Godzilla t-shirt, Marty. What do you think that might mean, Marty? Well, it means that they are maybe, you know, saying loud, saying it proud. They've got the Godzilla license and it's coming out. Yeah, Godzilla confirms, yeah.
    80:57
    I thought the one that was really interesting was Zach Sharp with a, you know, one of the Golden Girls, Bea Arthur, on his shirt. So, if that's no confirmation. Yeah, I've heard kind of rumors of this kind of going around for a while. I thought that it might be a joke, but I guess this just really confirms that Zach Sharp is massively into guilt. He's just, that's his thing, man. Don't look at his computer. Zach Sharp is into guilt. Yep, there it is. Confirmed. That T-shirt alone. So I look forward to the next stream and we'll run this. This is our new segment. Just try and figure out what all these Zen employees mean with the T-shirts that they're wearing. Absolutely. So anyway, so the stream itself, I probably watched about an hour and a half of it. Yep. That was probably enough just to watch one ball of Jack Dangers before he was a total.
    81:50
    It's so weird. Is it a quick game or is it a hard game? Because the people that weren't very good at pinball, their game was over instantly. I don't think anyone really had long balls. I tuned in at one moment and the ball times were tense. As soon as the ball save was gone, the ball had drained. I was on the phone already to AMD and I was like, I'll order 10, please. I'm going to be a millionaire. And then everyone started playing really good. So I'm confused as to where it's a lot of players. It's funny because when the stream first started, you sent me a message saying, oh my God, this machine's really tough. And then I think 15 minutes later, it was like, oh wait, maybe not. Yeah. So I don't know. I guess balancing out with the outlines and software and stuff like that. But I mean, there's a ridiculously easy multiple to get into. Oh yeah, for sure. I'm sure they'll nerf the scoring of that because that's literally just, or maybe it should go into it twice or something. I don't know, people were getting into it before the ball sucks was up.
    82:53
    So, yeah, no, it looks good. It looks chaotic. It does. It reminds me of Iron Maiten a little bit in the sense that there's so many sounds going on, you probably need a lot of games to kind of hone your ear into what's actually going on, sound-wise. But it looks fun. Yeah, look, my takeaway from it was that, yes, it looks fun, but it's very busy. It's very packed. There's a lot of sounds coming at you. The ball was really fast.
    83:25
    Obviously, there's light. There's art. There is just a lot going on at once. I think that the layout is good in the sense that it didn't seem like there were many kind of frustrating shots. When people miss shots, it's still kind of like a ball didn't do nothing and come back and kind of like still hit something else or still went through some kind of like all-voted little spinner.
    83:50
    That shot that we're kind of worried about didn't seem to have much issues and obviously there's two ways of getting up there, right? So we talked about it with Tanya in the podcast interview. You can hit that kind of like that 45-degree angle target and it will go up that ramp. So it's a hard shot, but yeah. I mean, George Gomez did say the machine likes to get jacked up and it's a, you know, like to be a fast player and this, this and that. I'm not sure how much they modified that machine and what angle it was at, but it was pretty damn fast, my name. Yeah, it was really fast. Particularly that left ramp. When that was absolutely nailed, bang, it was back to the left lipper already. Yeah. It almost felt like one of those 180 degree ramps like the one we were playing yesterday on Pirates of the Caribbean. It wasn't, yeah. I guess one little bit of criticism of something that I don't care about at all is the animations on the screen. They introduced, I think, like six people on art and after watching the animations, you could tell it was six different people because they were very different. It wasn't this one complete package like let's say you get dialed in or almost. No, I know what you mean but I don't think it was meant to be. I think they intentionally set out to have sort of different styles coming through on the LCD. Yes. I don't expect everything to be pixel art but I'm talking about say like scores, like a score flashed up on the screen for Little Deadpool. and Little Deadpool has like different animation, different, I don't know, you want something to be different. No, I know what you mean, it has been all the way through, right? Yeah, I get what you mean, but I actually, of all of it, the thing I was actually most impressed was the animations on the screen. So we're obviously looking at different things with different lenses, but no, I actually really liked that. I liked the call-outs, I liked the gameplay, I actually liked the rules. So as we sort of said at the tail end of the interview, Tim Sexton introduced the game and took the glass off and went through all the rules. That was very cool. I thought there was a lot going on there. And back to, I guess what we've been saying in the last couple of weeks, or me in particular, I've been saying the last couple of weeks is that, We thought that this might have been a bit of a filler title. It's not. It's got everything in it. Yeah. It's got the retro bonus countdown as well. Yeah. Even more than Iron Maiten. I did laugh out loud, I think, twice at the call-outs. One was when someone said something like, who do you think you are, Keith Elwin? I'm not sure if that was a jackpot call-out or what it was. And the other one was the Super Jackpot call out where he said, oh, it's just another jackpot. Oh, wait, no, it's a Super Jackpot. That made me laugh. And as I said, humor in Pinball to make people laugh kind of over and over again.
    86:57
    There's no way of knowing that. I laughed the first time. I'm not sure if I'll laugh the hundredth time I hear it, but I'm not saying that in a bad way. No, well, I think if ongoing you can get a smile, then you've done your job. Yeah. So, anyway, we've done enough, now we've got to play the thing, and, you know. In two months time.
    87:21
    I'm not buying one, but one thing we actually never mentioned, but really I actually got my Iron Maiden home after Deadpool was announced, so that's how long it took for me to actually get my Iron Maiden. Wow, I mean that includes three weeks of the issue overseas. Three weeks, yeah, but they do take a while to get here.
    87:38
    If only we could fly one down, Marty. If only we could fly them. Not going to happen though, Ryan. As hard as you may try.
    87:50
    I've got some news for you. I've got an update on my Kickstarter. Which one, Marty? Which Kickstarter are we talking about today?
    88:01
    I've only got three on the go. Two with a chance of actually being fulfilled. Really one. Is this that book which will solve all of your coffee needs? Correct. Like you know what, in the morning when I wake up and I brew the most amazing coffee. It is just the aroma and I sit down to drink my coffee and that first sip, just empty. It just feels empty because I just don't have a copy book worthy of a great coffee. And how long have you felt this empty feeling, Marty?
    88:44
    About a year and a half? How long has it been? I honestly can't remember how long it's been. So dumb. So anyway, so we've got an update. Here's what the update said. There has been a lot going on with keeping the ball alive in the last month. First we're hiring an intern to help us do some Photoshop work to help speed up the process.
    89:07
    We now have a layout with all chapters in games and we're tweaking the flow of the graphic design. Still a lot of work to do but we feel good about the progress that's been made.
    89:16
    It's funny that people in Pinball have lost so much money that no one gives a shit about it. How much was it? About a hundred bucks the book? Depends on which version you got, right? Yeah, I didn't get the Povo version.
    89:30
    So, I honestly cannot remember. You got the Super L.A. with the zombie Yeti art? Yeah, I think so. Something like that. That's his shit art as well. That was him two years ago. And he improves his work all the time. So, wow, I wonder if he's going to redraw that. Okay, here we go. Oh, yes, I did. I did get the limited edition book plus Zombie Yeti. Yes. Signed and numbered print designed for the project. It was $225.
    90:03
    Cool. Yeah. Dumb. Wait, so I'll just end up for a second. How much did you say? $225. Correct. Fuck me, Marty.
    90:13
    You could just get some guy in the US to just scan the pages for you. It'd be free, Marty. I know. I could just go around to... You know, I could have just taken all the photos at all the different events that I've been to and made my own book. Yeah. But, um... You know who doesn't screw you around? Todd Sucky. He's got some books coming out, matey. Yeah, he does. Yes. Todd Sucky. Yep. He's the man. Anyway, so there's more or all that kind of stuff, but, you know, they say thank you for your patience. I know it's been difficult, but good things are happening. Should we make a bet on when you think you're going to get it? I don't think it's going to be this year. Okay, well you just put a date on it and then I'll put a date on it and I'll price it right here. Okay, I'm going to say April 13.
    91:01
    The 13th of April 2019. 19, yep. Okay, I will say the 20th of August 2019. Okay. One year. Right. They haven't even fucking started money.
    91:14
    Well, you know. Greg Fres won't even take pictures of all the art shrinkers that he has. That was part of the letter as well, right? Yeah, something like that. This is super interesting stuff, man. Let's go on to the next. Anyway, so the next piece of news is about Jersey Jack. What's happened in the world of Jersey Jack? Jack has almost broken his hip doing a cartwheel. Three attempts at a cartwheel. It's going to happen one day. It's going to be like 70 years old when they release their 20th game or something. I know. He's just going to do it right here. It was funny because, I mean, I couldn't really hear it, but I kind of felt like if you had overdubbed the sound of bone cracking, it would have hit. And then when he went to do the third one, I'm like, oh no, don't do it, don't do it, you're going to do yourself an injury, please don't. So, what is so significant about the Jack Winari cartwheel, Ryan? Yeah, it means that they're shipping games. So Pirates of the Caribbean, the JDP version. We haven't played it enough to call it the good version and, you know, Stern the shit version, but I'm pretty sure in due time it'll be the good version.
    92:23
    Yeah, it's now shipping. So hooray to the people that stuck to their pre-orders and are getting it. I have no idea when the Australian versions are coming down. I don't have any friends that are getting one money, so I don't know when I'm going to get to play this game. Yeah, I don't know either, but we'll find out soon enough, I'm sure. Yep. Some other news, Ryan, some very special news. Yep, I'm listed now in the pinball credits of a pinball machine. Are you though? Well, I am, but my name is Striped Out Marty. But I'm still there, my name is still there.
    92:58
    So we mentioned a couple of weeks ago that there was going to be an update for Houdini coming out, and we said it was going to completely change the game and make it a much more enjoyable experience. Why was that, Ryan?
    93:12
    Well, there's an English guy in the Houdini Pinball machine who talks to you, and there's also an Aussie guy, except they got the English guy to do both the Aussie and English accents, but this guy didn't know how to do the Aussie accents because he's not Australian. So, you know, they wanted a better world on the glass sound effects, so who did they contact? The only Aussies they knew. That's right.
    93:40
    So there are call-outs now in Houdini from, let's call it, the head-to-head pinball crew. 0% Ryan, 100% Marden.
    93:56
    It's a cocktail, it's a cocktail, it's called the head-to-head crew. You add 0% Ryan, 100% Marden, and you get good call-outs. And the joke is that they wanted us both to kind of, you know, try out kind of thing. And you did yours first, Marty. I said, yep, that's it. Like, you nailed it, Marty. You're like, I'm not going to bother. And you're like, no, come on. Do it, Marty. Do it, Ryan. Do it. Fucking sat there for two hours doing all the call-outs. I'm like, yep, we're going to go with Marty. And I'm like, fuck.
    94:27
    Hey, at least my name is striked out on the credits. I'll take that as a win. Hey, people want to be immortalizing Pimball machines forever, Marty. Right. You've done it already. And you know what? And we've actually had, so Dr Pinn from Mrs Pinn's Pinball Podcast fame was playing it over the weekend. And so we didn't actually even know that it had been released. And he messaged us and said, it's absolutely your voice, unmistakable, and then sent us through a clip. So, very funny. I am in a pinball machine. It's hilarious. How does it feel, Marty? Is everyone just going, like, you know, you talked about all the autographs you signed at Pinball. I'm walking down the street now having to just push people away. They're all coming around, wanting to take selfies with me going, oh my god, aren't you the guy in Houdini? Yeah. Anyway, there's a bit of fun, so why not? So is your pre-order down for Houdini? I'm so tempted. I am so tempted. If I wasn't having to buy a whole crap load of AV gear, I would be in on it. Or if you didn't have all your money tied up in stupid Kickstarter. You make a valid point. Yeah. Okay.
    95:46
    All right. Yeah. Sorry. That's my news, mate. Zombie Yeti was also on This Week in Pinball, This Week in Pinball's podcast, I think that's what it's called. Yeah. He did an interview with Jeff, the Jeff, one of the Jeffs. I think he's ranked. Oh, there's too many Jeffs. Yeah, three out of five, I think. I can't remember which rank he's currently at, but he's climbing.
    96:09
    Yep, go listen to that interview. Zombie Yeti talks about the process of doing Deadpool art. And I'm a bit upset that Zombie Yeti went on the show because we gave the list of all the people we've got to get on the show, Marty, and George Gomez has already done an interview with someone else, Zombie Yeti. So if we mentioned you on the list, please hold up for us, including Tim Sexton and his many girlfriends.
    96:34
    And jump up at it. You know, come on. Anyway. What else? So there's been some tournaments announced this week, Ryan. Okay. So we mentioned a few weeks ago that Flip Out 2018, it's back on. So this is the event in Melbourne where I think we had probably about 40 machines last year and Jersey Jack came out. Well, he's coming back out again.
    97:02
    Sweet. This time, I think it's December 1st and 2nd. People in the US don't laugh at us saying 40 machines. That's a big answer for us. That's massive. That's huge.
    97:12
    That's like their worst event is like 100 machines. We're growing. We're working on it. They literally trip over and 10 pinball machines fall out of their pocket. That's how plentiful it is out there. Anyway, so Jersie Jack's coming out again. Obviously, we're going to talk. We'll have production.
    97:35
    Pires of the Caribbean is there. But I'm going to be running tournaments there. Yes. What kind of tournament are you going to do, Manny? I'm going to do a pump and dump.
    97:46
    Okay. I don't know why it's such an emphasis on the Ps, but I just thought I'd accentuate them. Has there been a pump and dump in Australia before? Well, there's actually been a couple. So the first one that I ever went in was actually at Australia's first and only pinball expo. Ah, yes, it was okay. Yes, it was a Pumper Dump. It was a Pumper Dump. How long ago was that? Was that four years ago? I was in that tournament too, Marty. Were you? Yes, go and look at your IPA results. It was free entry. So when I played, I was so confused because it was... Circus Voltaire was in there and I was like, I'd never play Circus Voltaire and not get at least 40, 50 million and I didn't understand the whole concept of adjusting out lanes and I was extreme noob back then. Okay, well and so when I went to Canberra for the ACT Pinball Championships that was also a pump and dump as well, well, Herbs are. Yep.
    98:46
    And, you know, so I'm trying to take a bit of a, you know, the California flavour and bring it back here. So it really is the in-disc format. So as many... Are you going to be using Carl D'Angelo's Neverdrain software? Well, I've got to sort of reach out to him and ask him. Ask him now, he listens. Yeah, Carl, can I use your software, mate? So, do you know, the only thing is, like, what if I'm in the middle of the day and something goes wrong and it's like 4 o'clock in the morning? Carl D'Angelo will stay up for you. I'm pretty sure 23-hour support comes free with his free software. Well, you know what? I did watch the Buffalo Pinball Summer Open and they were using the software and there was a bit of a glitch. They just rang him up and said, hey, and within five seconds it was all fixed. That's how good he is. Oh, okay. So it does need... Well, just make sure the finals are kind of like on at a certain time that you can... Oh, I have to have backups. But the really good thing about his software is that it manages registration, payment, entries, scoring, The whole lot and then you can sort of link it to your stream as well so you can have live scores. So, you know, we'll see how we go.
    99:57
    But if you are interested we'll send a link in the, we'll put a link in the show notes but effectively mrpinball.com.au is where you can get tickets at the moment and the all access pass is up. Okay, and there's going to be a flip frenzy as well? There's also going to be a flip frenzy. So, on the Saturday we're going to do qualifying, Sunday will be finals for B Division and A Division. And on the Saturday night, the whole place will be a lockdown and it'll be a flip frenzy for three hours. So that'll be fun. Sweet. So, I don't know how I'm going to go. They're sort of bigger tournaments than I've run in the past, so it should be lots of fun. You see the Buffalo Pinball Open, there was three, there was the Classics, Classics 2 and the Main. Yes. It was won by three Canadians. I know, I know. They should just rename it to the Buffalo Canadian Open. I know, and you could just see the look on Jeff G. Oleson's face. He knew he was rubbing it in.
    100:52
    Except he didn't win anything, but you know. Well, he came third in the Classics, the Classics 2 or something, so he did pretty well. Yeah, fair enough. He got his offers. Yeah.
    101:02
    This week in Pinball Money? No, Slam the Top 100. Yes, Slam the Top 100. It's time, it's time, it's time. Okay, yes, I told you last week I'm going to smash you with World Cup sucker, regardless of your argument, and that is true. Yeah. I got, I don't know, what's the percentage? 79% of the vote. Yeah. That's a decent amount. If I get a good D1 machine, I'm just going to do what you did last time and just say nothing and see if I can win. I really feel now that the argument has absolutely nothing to do with it. Well, what you've got here obviously is World Cup soccer, a game that people have played or seen versus Safecracker, which nobody's played. Do you really think that's it, Manny? Well, yeah, probably. I reckon I even had the better gif. So, yeah. Well, do you get why I did that gif? Because, like, it's a board game. Yes. I totally got it.
    101:59
    Please generate a number from 0 to 100. Alright. 61. You've got 500? You've got 500. We haven't done that, have we? I don't think we've done that. There you go. Good. I'll take it. Please generate a number from 0 to 100. Fuck you.
    102:22
    Please generate a number from 0 to 100. Okay. 84. Oh, yeah. Big number. Diner. Yep. Done. Yep. Awesome.
    102:39
    Straight into it. Indy 500. A Dennis Norman classic. It's sold like shit, but that doesn't mean that it's not a bad game. It's fun. It's fun as soon as you plunge the ball, going for souvenirs. Who doesn't want souvenirs?
    102:54
    Two awesome ramps that represent the jackpots. It's really fun in multiball. The orbits represent overtaking cars. The entire game is a race, and the object is for you to do enough laps, I think it's like 200 or something, or 200 million, I can't remember, enough laps to get you through. and the position you in matters so the strategy involves The Turbo what an awesome little toy and you keep on building up the jackpot and hitting that That shot isn easy but it oh so satisfying There's a bit of risk reward as well with the mystery award where you have to kind of, you flick through and you choose your mystery award, but you've got like five seconds. So if you flick past too far and you end up on like 10 points, you're getting 10 points. So risk reward back in 1995.
    103:39
    Indy 500, great backing back Pinball machine. Tell me about Dynamite. Try. Try and beat Indy 500 money. Try. Well, it's going to be somewhat hard because I think people probably know Indy 500 quite well.
    103:54
    Okay, I'm going to do my usual thing. Everyone's going to say, oh, you know, it's a better version of Taxi, but blah, blah, blah, it's practically the same as Taxi. It's not. It is a new and improved version of Taxi, right? And you know what? Who doesn't like racial stereotypes? We love them. And this game has got them absolutely in spades. Just really offensive.
    104:23
    So, you know what, if you like your pinball loud and red and offensive, then Dino is where you can go.
    104:34
    Was that a four against funny? Okay, all I'm going to say about Dying Pinball Machine is when people were sitting down and discussing what theme should we do, okay, someone puts their hand up and they say, hey, we should do about like the Indy 500. People watch it on TV when they're a kid, it's great, there's cars, we can do crashing, we can do this, we can do a turbo. Yeah, let's do it. Okay, that was the conversation then. And then there's another conversation, we said, hey, fuck, we're running out of ideas, what should we do? So, ah, do you know how we go to lunch every day? We go to that shitty diner around the corner and we get free coffee and we have to tip these shitty waitresses that hate their fucking life. Let's do that. Let's make a pinball machine about a diner. And someone should have put their hand up and said, ah, no. But it went through and they made a pinball machine about a diner.
    105:24
    So, do you know what's really good about Indy 500? Multiball. You told Dennis Newman it's your favourite Dennis Newman pinball machine lady. Dreadpool is really, really good on Indy 500. Yes. You can never get it because that lock doesn't work and you even had the gall to mention it in front of its designer. You also think you've never experienced it before, Marty. I'm just talking about you. You said. Okay. So, you know, it's great when you can get it, but it is so broken that you can never get it. I'm not crushing that. Nah, I'm not. But what I will finish with is the marketing slogans for Dinah, which I'm reading from IPDB. The rush is on. Yeah. A full menu of features. You know what? Get it while it's hot.
    106:20
    Do you want a pinball machine that looks like a fucking cloth? It's fast. A red. People saying that Deadpool is too red? This game is really cooking.
    106:32
    And my favourite, serving up the finest earnings. You guys need to vote for me just for that last one. Serving up the finest earnings. There you go. Vote for me. Vote for justice.
    106:53
    Vote for Mark Ritchie. You know what it is? Vote for Mark Ritchie because if we win this, he may come back and design pinballs again. Mark Ritchie, Mark Ritchie, Mark Ritchie. Arguably the better Ritchie.
    107:06
    I actually want people to vote for you, Marty, because that was some good effort. That's the first time I've ever heard you do a chant, Mark Ritchie. Oh, shit.
    107:18
    Dennis North. Mark Ritchie sounds better when you chants it out. Dennis, Dennis, Dennis, yeah.
    107:25
    Anyway, we'll put that up on Facebook. You guys can vote for Ryan. So winning class in a row. This week in Pimball, what did you get up to, Marty, this week?
    107:36
    Well, I did my usual Iron Maiden stream. Yeah, went pretty good. Mentioning a sock in the show notes, Marty, you can get another three clicks. Yep, absolutely. Yep, love it. Fantastic.
    107:48
    But really, the big stream of the week was the stream that you and I did. Yes, we went to an undisclosed location and there was 31 pinball machines there. At someone's house. At someone's house in which they actually built a house and part of the design was I want this massive room so I can put lots of pinballs in it. What a legend. Yeah, the hilarious thing is that, yes, that happened, and he probably said, you know, I want room for, I think it was like 26 pinball machines or whatever it was, and thought that would be enough. You know, that was like, that's too much, you know, but let's just add some extra space anyway. And now he has 31 and thinking of kind of extending that room and doing this, doing that, I'm like, fuck, man. Wasn't there like in the middle, there was like a ping pong table, a foosball table or something, or one of those coffee things and a pool table? Everyone's like, yeah, probably don't need those anymore to fit more machines. You've got arcade games there that are like switched off and pushed into the corner and it was the best. And it was literally the who's who of awesome pinball machines.
    108:55
    Yes. So Indy 500 wasn't there, was it? Well, neither was any game from like the, you know, pre-1990s. So these guys very much into the 90s, Duggan games and starting to get more into the Stearns. And that's his issue, he's got all the good games from the 90s, but there's a lot of good games that came out after the 2000s that he's just kind of getting into. So, yeah, we're not going to go through and name all the games. I did a little Facebook video, you can have a look. But you streamed Pirates of the Caribbean. Yes. On JGP1, obviously.
    109:30
    Man of the Madness remake. Attack from Mars remake. Correct. Every single time I see Attack from Mars, every single time, I'm like, oh, wow. That is a lot nicer than I remember it in my head because every time I remember it I'm like it's just a remake it's just like.
    109:43
    And someone asked me on the stream they said so what do you think about the remakes and this is what I said and I've probably said this before but Medieval Madness remake is a really really good replica of the original game.
    109:59
    Attack from Mars is an enhancement of the original game. Yeah. I mean, after last night I was kind of thinking, you know, I can't remember, I think somebody messaged me when they bought a remake and they didn't like it for whatever reason and they said, do you want to swap? They're like, no, no way. But now I'm like, huh, maybe I should go and find that email or that PM or that message. I can't remember who it was. Well, I remember all that carry-on we went on about with the flippers and the randomness and not being able to pick a shot. Yeah, I didn't play enough yesterday. I couldn't pick my shots. Could not. You're going to be sure? Yeah, okay. I couldn't pick my shots. Yeah. Consecutively.
    110:39
    Yeah, you put me into all the games on the stream and I didn't really want to play because I was playing all the other games. I've played Demolition Man and I've got my Demolition Man set up so hard that I've never progressed far enough to the game. I didn't know that once you finish all four multiples, it lights like a super-duper jackpot up the right ramp And you cash in, I think, all of the totals from all your multiples.
    111:04
    So I got like that almost $3 billion on Hit Demoman and I love that game. But yeah, he's got awesome games. I know that means there's nothing to people that are listening, but I was like a little kid.
    111:18
    If he's got 31 games there, you would say 25 of them would be in the top 30 on Pinside. Really? Lucky Way had a lot of them. Yeah, sure. Well, here we go.
    111:36
    Did he have Medieval Madness? Yes. Attack from Mars? Yes. Not Iron Maiden. Monster Bash? No, but is it in a remake? Twilight Zone? Yes. Lord of the Rings? Yes.
    111:47
    Dialed In? Yes. Adam and the Family. Indiana Jones Pinball Adventure. Star Trek. Star Trek Next Gen. Tales of the Arabian Nights. Dane's in Hatsune. Theatre of Magic. Whitewater. Yeah. Sins and Tipper Party. So in the end we are going to name all these two movies. Yeah. Pretty much. Pricades, Gunt. Yeah. Shadow. Yep. So. Okay. Pretty much just great, great collection.
    112:17
    Didn't have any 500 though because it's not a great game. So you didn't have Diner either. Hey, I played Doctor, what was it? Party Zone. Yes.
    112:27
    They're good games to shoot. I'm not sure about the software. I mean the software. I have no idea what's going on. No. So the problem with that and sort of, you know, games, I guess of that era is that one just becomes shoot the left ramp.
    112:43
    The ozone ramp? Yeah. It's a very easy shot because it's an orbit slash ramp. So you can miss the ramp but hit the orbit and then it'll go up anyway. Yep. So what you do, you hit the ramp, it comes back to the left flipper, bounce it over and then ramp again.
    113:00
    That's what you do all day? That's what you can do all day. It's a very safe strategy, but it's not a fun strategy.
    113:07
    So what they do with it, they actually break the ramp so it doesn't come back to the flipper. It actually sort of goes into the middle of the game, so you're never safe. So that's what you have to do. They break the ramp, as in like they put a diverter on it. Yes. Really? Wow. Yeah. Or if you just not include it in your game. Yeah, pretty much. In your game tournament. But yeah, for me, okay. Anything else, Manny? No, that's it. How was your week?
    113:32
    Pretty good. I had a... No Good Gophers is gone. Hooray. Yeah. I was kind of happy when that left. The funny thing is, is that that was my only reference for No Good Gophers, and then yesterday, Eric had No Good Gophers, and I was playing his, and I still don't like it deep down inside, but it does shoot a lot better. The issue with the one that I had was that when the ball hits the little circulating disc, it would kind of bounce up a little bit, hit the bottom of the jump ramp, and that sucks most of the momentum out of the ball, so the ramps were very hard to hit. Whereas Aeris just had a playful protector on it or something, and the ball was just gliding across. Anyway, another pinball machine got dropped off. We're not going to play the guess the pinball game, because I know you didn't like editing that. It's Dirty Harry. So I know how to have a Dirty Harry. Oh, you've watched Dirty Harry. No, I didn't buy it. It's free. Oh, okay, cool. It's a drop-off. Okay. It's a drop-off. It's a fun game.
    114:29
    It is cool. It's very weird because I've hardly ever played it. I didn't want to play the one at Dermall Paradise not in as good condition as the home-use one.
    114:40
    It's... I don't know. It doesn't feel like a belly-wing-stimble machine, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I think? And for me, the thing that's different about it is pretty much the lower, let's say, the bottom quarter of the machine. It doesn't have outlanes and sort of leading trajectory into the outlanes like other machines.
    115:03
    I'll have to have a look at it. It just makes it feel a little bit different. And I guess the shots aren't necessarily where you would expect them to be. Well, even like the mode start, the mode start is a whole. Like, I'm not sure any other Bally Williams game from the 90s that has, instead of a scoop, like Pat Lord does his scoops, his mode scoops, it's a circle.
    115:27
    I'm not sure, I'm sure there's someone that's got an email in and say, oh. Yeah, but I just, it looks weird. I feel like I'm playing some hybrid between a Data Reast and a Bally Williams film machine, but I learned the rules that I've never played before. There's a lot on there, Marty. There's a trapdoor that, you know, like there's a trapdoor in the shooter lane that literally just is so it diverts the ball to the gun. Yep.
    115:57
    There's like nothing to them back then, but now that's like the only feature Pinball machine could afford to have, right?
    116:04
    They've got the magnet, they've got diverters like all over the place, they've got sculpted warehouses. The Sculptured Warehouse is like a game these days from certain manufacturers just be a piece of plastic, right?
    116:17
    I don't know. It's crazy to think how much that game is and it's still fairly cheap. I reckon you'll have fun playing that. It's a good game. Yeah. The call-outs are very dry for me. Oh my gosh, so dry. I know.
    116:32
    Like it makes Alice Cooper feel like he's really putting a lot of depth in it. I know. They are really dry. Yeah. You know, it's the same call out every time. I've only played a couple of games, but when you finish that mode and it's like, call the garbage delivery, there's garbage on the street, something like that. You're like, oh, fuck. Stick of it after the first time. Anyway, I'll block my ears, listen to some Deadpool music or something, and enjoy playing that. So I'll be selling that in a couple of weeks or a month or whenever I get sick of it. So I'm going to pump it up, my ears. The best game ever. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You know what's funny, Marnie? When I got that thing, everything was working. There was no errors except the right control gate that's meant to make the ball stay up there in the pop-up area wasn't working. I'm like, fuck, like, you know, how do I fix this thing? I'm kind of bothered to fix Pimball machines right now. So what did I do, Marnie? What do you think I do when I don't know how to fix Pimball machines?
    117:28
    You called Bruce. Yes. Well, the funny thing was I called Bruce and he didn't answer and then he called me and I didn't answer and he left a voice message and maybe I'll send you the voice message so you can play at the end of the show. It was just him playing Demolition Man and I got a hold of him and he had a dirty hair at the bar and I didn't know that. But I was like, where does this go? Because it's not hooking up right. Yeah, and he just took some pictures and we're doing FaceTime and yeah, solved in 10 minutes thanks to Bruce. The greatest Pimball tech in all of Rochester.
    118:12
    So just the one machine this week? Just the one machine. The other machine's going to take a while to get here, which is good.
    118:19
    And how's your search for my fourth machine going? I messaged you today with a time warp. I know. $1,200. $1,200 for a time warp that just looked terrible. Did you read the description? Nah.
    118:40
    It was... Just a fuse. Yeah, just a fuse. Doesn't work, pretty sure it's just a fuse. Take a gamble, Marty. Yeah, you just wouldn't. And I probably wouldn't because it's Time Warp.
    118:59
    If I had a collection of 50 machines, absolutely I'd go with Time Warp and I would keep the banana flippers.
    119:08
    If I had 50 machines. But for my fourth machine, that's a bit of a one game only sort of venture there so I wouldn't do it. How about you grab my Quicksilver money and you fix it all for me and then when it's fixed you give it back? Do you trust me fixing your machine? You couldn't fuck it up more than it's actually bad. You couldn't put it in a worse state. It's funny because people come coming over and they're like, oh hey, I heard you got a Quicksilver and stuff, can I check it out? I'm like, oh it's in the garage. So we walk outside, open the garage and look at it like, ah, okay, so you've done like nothing. I'm like, yep, I've done nothing. So is it not working electronically?
    119:48
    It is. It's turning on. The displays work. It's wired wrong. So when you hit certain switches, stuff doesn't work. The drop targets don't go up. They don't go down. I'm confident I can get it working. It's just my care factor about getting it working right now is very low. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it does look pretty rough, but I reckon it could clean up well. I don't want to do it. Yeah. Yeah, no. I've got a Quicksilver. That's like, you know, like, they don't come up. Yeah. So I was going to buy it no matter what condition it was in and then I'll fix it and I'll have a Quicksilver. Yep. Versus saying, oh, no, I'll pass on that and wait another 10 years to get a Quicksilver. Okay. Fair enough. So have you found me a fourth machine? That's what I'm sort of getting at. I don't know. Is there a punchline to this thing? No, I just don't think you're working hard enough to find me my fourth machine. But I think you start. Do you want one of my machines money? Is that what you want? No. My only issue is if I give you one of my machines, I'll want to sell it as soon as I get it back. That's what's happened both times. For some reason, I just don't want the machine after watching you stream it a thousand times. Well, if there's a game you're thinking, oh, I'm a little bit attached to, but really it's worth a lot of money, send it my way. As in, okay, I use it as a, okay, yeah, yeah. No, not at the moment.
    121:17
    Star Trek, my Star Trek LA. I'm getting a bit sick of that. Do you want that? Yeah, probably good. I could do some heads-up tournaments at my place.
    121:26
    I feel like there's something else this week that I've missed out on, but anyway, that's my Ryan C, Pimball. I had my tournament this week for those in Melbourne. I was worried last time about the 120 people that RSVP'd and luckily not everyone came. Only 12 people have RSVP'd.
    121:43
    It's the opposite feeling, no. I'm pretty sure it's just all the Pimball people will come now and it'll be good. So this Wednesday, Pimball Paradise, 22nd of August, come down, Progressive Strikes, Keefer Strikes or Bear Strikes. Ozzy Strikes. Ozzy Strikes, there's three names now. Yep. And we're going to stream it. Why not? Ah, yeah. Or if you come, yeah. Yeah, if I could be bothered.
    122:09
    Just do a room stream and everyone will be like, hey, what's going on? I can't see you in the Dimmel machine. That'll be... You should be here. Great, yeah. Yeah.
    122:18
    Shall we go to the mailbag? Ah, yes. Two weeks worth of mail. Well, we do. The first one was a nice little reminder from Goodfriend. And I'm getting confused now. I don't know whether it's Rob Peck or Dave Peck. It's both. And he's from Australia and New Zealand. Dave Peck. Just a reminder, Southern Hemisphere Pinball Championships are coming up. So if you haven't registered, register now. It's October 19, I believe, in New Zealand.
    122:52
    I was thinking that maybe I should have that conversation with my wife. I planted a seed today and yeah, it's a maybe. Yeah, I'm also tempted because, I don't know, you know, there's a meet happening this weekend up in Sydney which is really tempting. I kind of couldn't really justify it. Had there been a tournament there, maybe I would have. Yeah. So, yeah. That's the barn meet. I think I've talked about it before where Lee's opening up his barn. With, I think, over 100 Pinball machines.
    123:28
    So there's some big collections in Australia, but it's going to be basically like a gathering for everyone in Australia to meet somewhere in New South Wales. So just, it's a massive piss-up with a bonfire. It is. I read it, it does sound awesome, but not this time.
    123:45
    We got two emails, Marty, about that issue with Iron Maiden and how to fix it. And it's on two different websites. I'm not sure if it's the same product. It looks like the same product. And I believe the one was in Germany and I think the second one's from Pinball Life. Yep. So I did go to the German one first.
    124:05
    Guess what, Ryan? It shipped already? You got it already? No, it was in German. So I couldn't really work out what I was doing. So I'm going to order for the Pinball Life one. Okay.
    124:18
    I'm pretty sure it'd probably have like a convert to English button. Or if you're in Google Chrome, you can just click Translate and it does it automatically. Yeah, maybe. I thought you were a techie guy, Marty. Yeah, I am a techie guy. I don't speak German. Nor do I read it.
    124:38
    Okay. October 1st might help you with that. It might be hidden tools to teach you how to speak a different language.
    124:47
    We've got an email from Paulie Balls. He got his T-shirt, Marty. He's pretty happy about it. Yeah, so Pauly Balls is the guy that designed our t-shirt, so... We will never tell you his real name, Pauly. We didn't even get to see his face. No, I know. Yeah, because he's a mysterious guy. Who is he? Who knows? It's Dirty Johnny. He has aliases. Pauly Balls is his real name. Funny. We're friends email. So we did have a couple of emails. We asked a couple of weeks ago about certain toys or mechs in games that had been used again that were either better or worse.
    125:34
    That's where we're heading with this. And the first email we got from Steve, and he said, You were right that the pop-up targets were executed well on Cactus Canyon. It perfectly replicated an old West Quickdraw and Reinforcer theme. Other mechs used, better or worse. The Ferris Wheel. So on Cyclone it was fun and reinforced the theme. On Cyclone it was good but then when you give it a double Ferris Wheel on Hurricane it was terrible because you had to wait. And not only did you have to wait, sometimes it didn't work. Yeah.
    126:13
    And better, it says on fishtails, the ball lock is essentially the same mech, but it spins much faster so the delay is gone. Theme-wise, it also looks great as a reel on a fishing rod.
    126:25
    Do they have it on Lexi as well? Lexi Lightspeed? Yeah, it is. 841. Yeah, that's exactly right. Is that what the Ferris wheel is? Is that what it looks like? Because I haven't played Cycloan, so... No. No, they're different. No. Okay.
    126:40
    Another one he talked about was spinning discs and this was covered recently I think on Eclectic Gamers Podcasts are talking about games that had spinning discs. It says on Whirlwind I find it fits the Tornado theme and they spin in a way that's still playable. On Stern's NBA that disc is a pain. It always seems to be in the way, doesn't fit the theme and most I've seen the rubber surface got chewed up and mucked all over the playfield. Yeah.
    127:08
    That's about right. There's so many spinning discs, right? So, Tron, for example, I think that spinning disc works really well.
    127:18
    Yeah, and you can change the rubber on that to make it just, it's almost like a kickback, it just throws it like crazy and I'm afraid to do that so I'm keeping mine as it is. Yep.
    127:27
    Got an email also from Axel. Yes. And he says that I put forward that Rudy in Funhouse as the original example of something that works well, but his cousins in Roadshow Red and Ted. Similar toys, nothing mastery in the terms of his handsome and some would say creepy looks and attitude.
    127:50
    Having said that, Red's hair, Red's hair head comes pretty close in terms of creepiness. But yeah, it kind of didn't work. You can't make lightning strike twice in those two things, right? Like putting the ball in Rudy's mouth versus Ted for multiball. Yeah, it kind of, it did feel, it was kind of like, yeah, you did it once, you haven't got any new ideas. Which is really strange because Red and Ted Roadhouse is actually jam-packed with lots of great shots, so it probably wasn't needed, but it did kind of fit in with the theme, maybe. I don't know. Back then it was operator heavy so it was like hey, funhouse sold well, one head, we give you two. Like double the sales.
    128:41
    Who knows but yeah. Every time you hear an interview back in the day with designers it was very much not like the home market non-existent so they wouldn't say Oh yeah, we really wanted to make a really deep code to please those people so they wouldn't flip the game, this, this and that. Like that's not in their conversation at all. It was all about pleasing big distributors so they can push their product as much as they could because that was all their sales, right? And earnings on location. Yeah, exactly. So here's a question without notice, Ryan. Yeah. What would you say would be one of your favourite sort of toys or mechs in a game? And what's your worst? And I'll phrase that by saying one of the worst is one that we played last night.
    129:29
    I know what you're making. You're talking about the Johnny Mnemonic gloves. Yep. It was hilarious because I played one game and you were streaming so I was playing it on my own and I didn't know, I'd never seen even a stream of Johnny Mnemonic so I was trying to lock the balls and I was travelling so slowly and I'm like, what's the point of that extra bit, you know, to the top? You just move it left and right and I looked and there was extra flipper buttons there that I didn't even notice. I'm sure the screen was flashing and telling me but it's just too slow. You can't make people wait in the machine strike. And it's really noticeable on that game because it is a fast flow game and so it's shot, shot, ramp, ramp, loop, loop, glove, glove, glove, glove, glove. Yeah. You know what really made me laugh in that demo machine for like no reason at all? The spinner was a 320 gig hard disk drive. It was circular instead of a, yeah, I don't know why that made me laugh. It really did, I was there when you saw that. And so the other one I think is just not that great is the claw on Demoman.
    130:44
    Yep. Yep, I mean, I guess they couldn't think of anything else to put in there. I mean, they weren't going to put the seashells in there or anything, so a massive gun, I don't know. But I mean, as I said, Sern, I mean, what's the best toy on Deadpool?
    131:02
    Exactly. What's the best toy on Iron Maiden? I mean, the meaning of Amanda's Castle is the A-plus example that everyone gives. It's pretty good. Yeah, I think straight after that is the, people say the Stern, Pirates of the Caribbean ship, but I say the Doctor Who play Phil because I think it's just fun. That's also really good. But I think for a toy that actually doesn't do much as far as interact, that ship on Pirates of the Caribbean, Stern version, is fantastic. Fantastic.
    131:41
    Yeah, but never really... Yeah, I don't know. It's kind of... I don't think the codes complement it well enough. You know? You can only hit it in one area. That's the difference between Mini-Bull Madness where you can hit it, it changes, you hit it again. You can go through. The ball goes through the castle. Yeah. The ball goes through the sides. There's a moat around it versus... Yeah, pretty much either you hit it or you hit through.
    132:11
    But for the wow factor, it's pretty impressive. Yeah, I think it's hard though. I mean, it can be hit and miss and you can almost ruin your Pimmel machine if you're over-ambitious with one singular mech that you think is going to be the wow factor and it turns out not to be. Like the glove, like the claw, etc. So I think making a Pinnball machine that shoots better is a safer and also a cheaper route to go down. I think that's kind of what Stern's aiming for at the moment. Or who knows? I mean, you could see the monsters with some insane neck that, like, oh my gosh, I haven't seen that before. Yeah. And the reason why I mentioned Iron Maiden before, and we've talked about it, is that it doesn't need toys for it to be an amazing game. It's got to be a well-integrated toy that in a way doesn't feel like it's just being put in there for cheap drills. Does that make sense? And so people write in and tell us what your favourite toy or mech is on a pinball machine and also write in and tell us what your, I guess, worst or most overrated mech or toy on a pinball machine is. Yeah. You know what I was thinking of when they introduced all those people, the six people for the Deadpool Pinball machine, the animations? Yes. I thought, fuck, that's a lot of money.
    133:36
    That's how much they're investing these days, and that's just one team. I absolutely didn't think that LCD required that much, and I'm like, take it out, go back to DMD, give me a cheaper Pinball machine, or, you know, more stuff in there. Well, and I guess it comes back to, you know, when we're talking about, you know, mechs and toys and it's return on investment, you know. Is the LCD screen that you see in the back, you know, giving you that much of an experience? When done well, I think it does. I just want the LCD to convey enough information that I don't need to hold down the flipper and cycle through to know what I'm up to or what I need to do.
    134:25
    I mean, I complain sometimes about certain coders and flashing lights and things like that. Dwight Sullivan is the king, I think, of the payoff. You get the super jackpot in Getaway, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, makes you feel good like you're a hero, right? It stages the ball. What Deadpool is missing at the moment is any sort of, you know, like you get Ninja Multiball and I'm not sure if this is like a plan to put in there, so the code hasn't been completed yet, it's not at 1.0, I think it's at 0.85 or something.
    135:03
    It's just like, oh, I hate ninjas, Ninja Multiball and the balls come out. You know, it's the same sword-locking mechanism as... No, I know what you mean, it's the choreography, but that'll come. That's actually the easy part, is doing the choreography. How do you know? How do you know? You reckon? Well, I asked Tim Sexton. That's what he did for Iron Maiden. So, wasn't the light shows, wasn't it, what he was doing? I think Super Sling was him. Probably, probably like that. But, no, I know what you mean. A bit of light and shade, a bit of contrast is required. Everything was happening all at once. But, you know, that'll just happen with Cope.
    135:37
    Yeah. Okay. Are we done? Sure. All right. I'm in deep thought about Ion Maiten as well and if it has those moments because it has, because mummy multiball you knock the ball out and it doesn't know, it has a switch when the ball returns so it doesn't know when the ball's out unless it doesn't go back and hit that switch within like a second or two seconds so it doesn't really know as soon as it's in multiball that's why you get that weird start to mummy multiball. Yeah, it just happens. It just, yeah, it just kind of happens and then it's like, okay, the ball didn't come back so now I'll dim the lights and everything.
    136:13
    The start of Trooper is quite good. But there's no staging or anything for the Super Jackpot. Like, it could put, you know, hold the ball there on the post and then kind of like Twilight Zone, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Go for the Super Jackpot shot.
    136:30
    Yeah. Anyway, I'm just, I'm just in deep salt. Everybody, this is the mind of Ryan. This is now, you're going to be thinking about this for 24 hours now. I'm going to get a music first thing in the morning. I'm going to watch Ryan Maiden. I'll report back on, I'll give my movie review next week. Okay, you know, in advance, what a crap movie.
    136:53
    Alright everybody, we'll speak to you next week. See ya. Bye. Ryan C, Knight. Thank you.