thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast this is episode 90 i am josh roop with my with me my co-captain as always scott larson and scott you know it's been it's kind of been an interesting year so far in pinball and there is plenty of pinball to be had so if you want to get a hold of a pinball machine how do you do it scott i usually contact zach and nicola flipping out pinball. Definitely. Now, I will say that last time I talked a little bit about my issue with the Rush Opto and Zach actually reached back out to me to say, hey, let's get you taken care of and send that out. So we're just waiting on that. You can always tell a good company by the customer support. And so if you have an issue and they are responding and they're active in it, then that is certainly uh that certainly is the way that i judge a company and um zach and nicole have always been great for me so it's uh they'll do the same for you just reach out uh look on look them up flipping out pinball or just message them on facebook did you see on facebook they caught zach with his pants down on a recent post oh geez yeah what was he doing man that was just awkward yep so all right enough of that let's let's get to our guest we have a man here that has been in the industry for almost a decade now. He started out with Mustang back in 2014, and his library of games that he has worked on are amazing. We've got Godzilla, The Beatles, Ghostbusters. I know you're loving some of these. With us today is Jerry Thompson. How are you doing, sir? I'm great. How are you guys? Doing fantastic. I have to tell you, though, Mustang, I did announce your speech, um david thiel did the sound package on that and a great job so i can't take care of working together with him so yeah yeah well we've been friends since 2008 um he and i are from the same area and uh well well you want to just get right into this would you like to know no absolutely this is what we want to know the origin story so we're just hanging out talking i can i can be when i when i got to cousin brucey's house to record the beatles speech for that game yeah he said uh you know let's get to know each other before before we start recording i made some breakfast for us and so you know it was just so we'll just act like that we're just getting to know each other how about that was that okay first off you can't just leave with that was that a pretty surreal moment by the way being cousin brucey's house and he's like let's make some breakfast and sit down well you know when we that's the only game i've gone into george and said i am the beatles biggest fan please let me do this game and he said okay so that was easy But I told him, I said, you know, Cousin Brucie is on Sirius. He's now back on WABC, but at the time he was on Sirius. And I said, you know, he introduced the Beatles at Shea Stadium in 65. And, you know, he's the only one to me that could be the announcer in the game. And so luckily, he and Joe Kamenkal, you know, said, what are you thinking for the announcer? And I said, well, I have an idea. He goes, what about Cousin Brucie? I go, that was my idea. So he goes, call him. So I got in touch with him and he said, I'm about to leave for vacation and we need to do this pretty soon. So I said, well, I'll come over to New York and we plan to do it at the Sirius Studios. But that morning he called and said, you know, I don't want to run out of time. I want to make sure you get what you want. So why don't you just come over to my house if you have recording stuff? And I always take it with me everywhere I go. So I was like, sure, I'll be right over. And we did it all in his living room. He sat on his sofa and I recorded him. Just the nicest guy. He said, when your wife and you come back to New York, let's all get together for dinner. But then COVID happened, so I haven't seen him since. But he's still on the air every Saturday night on WABC in New York. Okay, so you're going to have to bring me in. I've never heard of Cousin Brucie. So tell me about why he is important to the game. Well, he was one of the biggest radio DJs in New York in the 60s. And then he bought some radio stations and had a syndicated show in the 80s called Cruisin' with Cousin Brucie. And he's written a few books. And, I mean, he has a radio legend in the East Coast. And then if you listen to – I mean, I'm 54. You guys are younger than me, right? So that's one reason you don't know who he is. Yeah. But, yeah, I never thought I'd be the old guy. Back in my day, they had radios. I'm 47, so we're at least in the same wheelhouse. I would say I really enjoy music, so I knew who Cousin Brucey was because I watched the documentaries and stuff on the Beatles. My best friend, one of my best friends was obsessed with the Beatles, so we had to know everything about the Beatles. Radio was my thing before pinball. My oldest brother is 17 years older than me, and I started working full-time, well, when I was in high school. The week before I turned 16, my mom had to drive me to the radio station for the first week before I got my driver's license. And then in my senior year, I worked seven days a week and twice on Sunday. I worked at the local station in the morning from 6 to 8, went to school, came back and worked 3.30 to 6. And then I worked Saturday and then Sunday morning there. And then Sunday afternoon, I'd go over to Shreveport, which is about a 45-minute drive from my hometown and work classic rock in the afternoon. So that was, you know, radio was my thing. So I knew who he was. Eventually, I worked in an oldie station and we ran his syndicated program. So I was a fan. I don't blame you. That's so awesome. I feel like we got the cart a little bit ahead of the horse. So please tell us how, because obviously you haven't been, you've been in pinball for eight, nine years now. How did you even get into it? Well, it's a long story. You got time? Yeah, we got time. We got all podcast. My wife calls it the girl version. And she'll say, do you want the girl version or do you want the short version? So I bought my first game in 1998, and that was Twilight Zone, and I still have it. And you know how they grow like rabbits. I mean, I have a house full now. But there was a guy that I met through a Craigslist ad. You know how you look for a game and the one you really want is in the background. And I wrote him and said, you know, I'm not interested in this, but what about this game? And he said, no, but, you know, come up and we have this get together at a pizza place in Oak Harbor, Washington, once a year. And a lot of people bring their machines. And so I went to that. And then the next year it got bigger, the next year bigger. And so a group of us formed an email group and we'd go over to each other's house and play, you know, you'd rotate through. And so I met a lot of pinball people. And in 2008, we were like, you know, this has gotten so big, maybe we can have a show. And so I was like, well, I went to my first pinball expo in Chicago in 2004, and I met Steve Ritchie. I met him in Texas in 2002 because I lived there. I was working in Houston radio, and I drove up to Dallas. And so my first meeting with Steve was me standing in line with my Translight to get it signed for NextGen. And he goes, you own this game? I said, yeah. He goes, does it work? And I said, yeah, he goes, that's rare. So my next time to see him was in the hallway at Expo in 2004. And I said, hey, I just got my Elvis gold yesterday before I had to leave to come to Expo. And he goes, so his response to that was, wow, I can't believe you bought it. I was like, well, I love Elvis. And, you know, I still have that game, too, you know. Um, but so he was my, my thought to, you know, if we're going to have speakers, we need to get a big name and, and really make it a show. We need to have tournaments, you know, well-rounded show. So I, I reached out to him and he was in California at the time and he's like, yeah, if you'll pay my expenses, you know, I'll drive up. So we had Steve Ritchie and then Steve Weeby from the King of Kong. I don't know if you guys have seen that. Yeah. Um, with Billy Mitchell. He looks up there, doesn't he? Right. Yeah. So he did it, and then Greg Dunlap was one of the organizers of the show, and he said, I'll do one. And I was like, on what? Because we didn't really know. We didn't know what each other did. We just loved pinball. To me, that's the cool thing. It's like pinball is kind of like the great equalizer. It doesn't matter what you do or if you have 100 machines or none. You just love pinball. And so everybody's an equal at that point. So he's like, well, I used to work at Williams, and I was there when they shut it down, and I have some video of the offices when everything was closed down. So he did a seminar. And then I had read in Pin Game Journal that David Thiel lived here too, and David did sound at Stern from 2006 to 2016. And so I invited him. So we had a pretty great first-year seminar lineup, including David, and we became friends and started going to concerts together. And so I got to know Lonnie and Greg Freres. Actually, Greg and Dennis I invited out to the show to be speakers in 2010, and they got together, hadn't seen each other in a while. I put them on the plane together, and then they went to a restaurant and decided to make Wonelli while they were here in Seattle. And so they made the four, I think, right? the custom ones. And then 2015, Greg said, Greg called me and said, Stern's going to make Wonelli. And since you were there in the beginning, you should do the sound for it. And so I got to be the DJ in there. And my best friend, Rod, was the crazy guy. And then I found a girl that worked at a radio station in Shreveport that I did voice work for to be Melanie. And so So before that, though, David had let me do some speech. Actually, it goes back to Lonnie. Lonnie called me and he said, hey, I know you were on the radio and we're doing Rolling Stones. And would you like to write some speech lines for the announcer that, you know, were kind of like radio factoid kind of things that you could say over an intro to a song? And I was like, yeah, you know, anything pinball. I mean, when I when I got a game and I have so many games with Tim Kitts rowing them, I thought, wow, man, if I could ever talk in a pinball, that'd be the best thing ever. And so Lonnie said in 2014, he's like, since you didn't get to talk in Rolling Stones, you want to talk in Mustang? And I was like, yep, I'm there. So really, those were the two first things I kind of did. And then after I started working on Wonelli, they needed some help with Game of Thrones. And I had met Dwight also at Expo several times. And so he said, you know, we need some speech processing help on this. And I started working with Dwight. And I knew they were going to do Ghostbusters. And I said, man, I already hear this game in my head. I really want to be the sound guy for Ghostbusters. And, you know, since David had left, I was like, and then, you know, of course, I hadn't done any. So they look at me and they were like, yeah, but you've never done one. And I go, just give me a month, and if it's not working out, get rid of me. But I said, I promise you, I can make this game better than anybody else you have available right now. So he talked to George, and George is like, eh, we'll think about it. So I came home, called my friend Sean that I played with 20 years ago, And he and his wife both have master's in music degrees and sing, play, just great. And so I said, hey, I got this opportunity to do a game, and here's what I want it to sound like, and can you whip up some music for me, you know, like this? So two days later, after I pitched them, I sent them three tracks and said, here's what I think it should sound like. So Dwight called and said, OK, I think we'll give you a shot. So I thank him all the time for giving me and George for giving me a chance. And then I had to get in there and prove myself. But I just worked on my 20th game. So it's worked out. Yeah, it's a pretty impressive run. And now here's the question, though. When you think, what does a pinball machine sound like? Like I would have no idea how to orchestrate that because it is so foreign to me. So walk me through that. Well, I wanted the my the biggest thing to me is immersion, you know, because that's one of the things I love about what Chris Granner did in Lord of the Rings and in Indiana Jones. And just, you know, any game. I don't want to do anything that ever takes anybody out of the game. You know, if there's something that sticks out like a sore thumb, then that's going to take you out of the, you know, out of the whole immersion of the game. So that's my first thing. I wanted Ghostbusters to sound like the 80s. So, you know, those cheesy synth sounds from the 80s. And I've got a Linn drum machine and Simmons drums that were big back then. So all that stuff was, you know, you hear cheesy little keyboard things in Ghostbusters because that's of the era. So it was real important to me that it not be, you know, new sounding instruments. And I tried to do that same thing in Batman and Ghostbusters. I mean, Batman and Munsters. Just be authentic, you know, and Sean is great at that. A lot of people were like, that's not the original Munsters theme. I said, no, it's so short. You know, you can't have that for main play. so sean will give me like a version with a ton of tracks and then i can mix out like one one ball in monsters you may hear a harpsichord lead you know one you may hear piano and just um it's kind of like a you know i have a big palette to to paint with same thing with ghostbusters you know and uh those tracks were just you know they were just great they were perfect i mean i i still love that game to me. It's like, that's a, that's a high watermark that I, that I try to reach every time. You obviously have a lot of eggs in a basket when you're doing sound, I guess, where, where does your job end in the coders begin essentially with sound and implementation of sound? Well, everybody has their, their thought. I mean, I come in with a thought of, of what I think, and then we'll talk it over, whether it's, you know, the designer or the coder. I mean, And Dwight will say to me, oh, I think this sound should sound like this, and then I'll do that. And, you know, Keith will have ideas. Keith has a great ear. He'll say, you know, why don't we do this here? Really, there's no set rule for how teams operate. Everybody's a little different. And so that's one thing, you know, you have to learn how to work with each team and each person in the team. But I must say there's a ton of work that goes into a game before I get to it, because if you don't things you don't even think about, there's so much planning with a team of storylines and storyboards, animations that are before the final animations. And just I mean, there's so even even I, when I did the first one, didn't realize how many sounds are in a game. You have to have a sound for every switch, every button, every target, ramp, and then all the videos now that have come with the newer screen. I mean, they give those to me with no sound on them. So when you see the dinosaurs running and jumping on the fence in Jurassic Park or lightning or the trucks getting off, I mean, I get to do sound to all of those videos, which is really fun. I enjoy that part of it. and things like Mandalorian were nice because they gave us individual breakouts of the speech and of the sound effects in the show. But a thing like Godzilla, you know, there were there's that's there is no breakout. It's, you know, a mixed with music a lot of times. So those scenes I would get to go back and recreate from scratch because we couldn't use it out of the movie. You know, I sometimes think people think, oh, they're just ripping things out of a movie and sticking it in there, but that's not how it works at all. There's a lot of detailed work that goes into making sound for those videos. I love playing games at home because I can hear them. Like location games, that's one thing that feels distant to me is because a lot of times the location games have the volume turned really low or everything's so loud that you can't really appreciate the sound package. So from a sound design standpoint, how do you take that into account? Well, I mean, I try to make it as good as I can for the pro premium speakers. And, you know, I mean, I don't know how to address what you're talking about, because if you go to any show, you can't hear anything. But headphone kit's awesome. I mean, Keith asked me early on, well, about midway through Godzilla. He's like, have you heard this with headphones? And I said, no, I'll grab a headphone kit. And so Stern sent me a kit and I listened to it. I was like, wow, this is cool. You can hear every cause I do a lot of stereo pans and stuff like that And you get it all in headphones I mean you know when you hit something and what you seeing on the screen is in stereo in your headphones it is really cool And there's a guy that I have not heard Star Wars with headphones on there, but there's a guy that wrote me and said, Star Wars with headphones on is incredible, so I've got to try that sometime. Yeah, I have a friend who actually had a Star Wars LE and he hooked up a base system and a soundbar to it. And it it was amazing. It felt like you were in the theater and the ships were coming over you. I know it was in the sound is really, you know, when when you think of Star Wars, if you watch it without sound, it's laughable. Have you seen that? No. Just Google. Google the final – there's a YouTube video of them walking for the medal ceremony, and it just looks weird. And the fact that they were able to integrate the sound, and it is – when you think of Star Wars, you cannot discount the effect of the sound and also the voice of Darth Vader. because there's also sound of Darth Vader being spoken by, I think his name was David, the actor. Right. It really sounds kind of comical, really. Well, I don't know if there is a solution for making sound cut through more in an arcade. I mean, it's just everything competes with each other. So I don't know how to answer that question. But I'm sorry, but I will say, yeah, the importance of sound. If you go turn your sound off and play your your newer pinball game, it's not the same experience. It's boring. It's quite boring. Yeah. So I don't know if you know Ryan Cass from Head to Head Pinball, the podcast that used to happen about three years. I haven't met him, but I know of him. Yeah. So he is like the sound guy when it comes to pinball for me. And I was like, Ryan, we're having Jerry on. And so he keeps sending me all these questions and they're pretty good. I want to ask you this one. He wants to know why is there so many sounds in new games? Is less more or is more more? Well, I mean, like I said, you got to have sound to match what's going on and on the screen. And then a sound for every element, switches, targets, you know, and you want to have some kind of recognition that you've made a shot. So there's usually like an award sound. So I, you know, I don't know if more is better. I just try to make it. I, I, my thing about radio is I did a lot of cool stuff over the years, but it was all disposable. I mean, I voiced thousands of radio and TV commercials and still do. I mean, I have a lot of clients still, but that all goes away. Whereas pinball is something that, you know, 20 years from now, I'll be able to stand in front of that if I'm still alive, knock on wood, and say, wow, I did that. You know, and my kids, my son was taking a road trip in Arizona and he sent me a picture not long ago. He and his friends walked into this place and there were three games in the front door that I did. So, you know, he was excited because he's like, I told him my dad did sound on those. You know, it's nice when your kids think you're cool every now and then. Yeah, definitely. Okay. I do have an appeal though, since you are doing the sound for all these games, can we please change the knocker sound? Well, I seriously, my first bought my game and I, this is when I was so new to pinball. I bought a Simpsons pinball party and I kept like hearing this really annoying sound. And I even emailed them. I'm like, there's like a really weird sound that's happening when I'm playing the game. Like, is there something broken? And they're like, yeah, that's the knocker. Yeah. So can you have like a trumpet or a da-da-da-da or – We have played around with that, but it's still the same. I don't know. I can't tell you whether it will ever change or not. Okay. I will say that there's two things I do when I boot up a game is I immediately go in and put it on free play, and then I turn off the knocker sound. I turn it on low. I put mine on low. Yeah. I love the authentic one, like the one that actually – the old-school knocker. Yeah. That goes – I love that. But, man, if I could ask one thing, I would definitely change that sound. Well, I usually say when somebody says they have an issue with something, I usually say not my department. But I guess this is kind of my department. That's your department. I'm going to put that off on Mark Guidarelli, you know, systems guy. Let's put that in his category. Okay, seriously, like a fanfare, like, you know, like a trumpet in a medieval castle. That's how I think it should be. so you did something unique with godzilla that i don't think's ever been done before where you did call outs in english and in japanese are the call outs one for one because if you do play in japanese there still is about 10 of it is english and was that pretty hard for you to implement the japanese with that well i tell you you know rick nagel gets all the credit for making things magical, in my opinion. You know, I give him a bunch of stuff. The video guys give him a bunch of stuff and then he puts it all together. So was it difficult? Maybe for him. I mean, it was just my job was to give the script to a couple of Japanese actors and say, cut these lines, label them exactly like you in English, because I have no idea what you're saying and then, you know, give them back. And so, so, you know, Rick then takes that line from them and then puts it on so that it's selectable. Um, so yeah, I, I don't know the, to answer your question. I don't know if it's one for one. Cause we, we did, uh, several sessions with Rick Zieff and added some more things and, uh, man, what a talent he is. He, he just makes the game, right? he's that yeah he's amazing and he was great in iron maiden too oh yeah have you had any any feedback from the japanese market with the sound at all i have not heard yeah i mean i but i don't you know i don't get those emails so i don't know i mean i there might there might be from somebody you know that that gets the stern interior um internal emails you know i don't know i haven't asked george i i will say it's fun because uh my my friend who is also a pinball collector he does speak Japanese. Oh, really? So when we came over, we actually turned on the Japanese mode and he was laughing. Great. When you're going through games, there are different types of games. So you even mentioned Beatles and I want to circle back to that, but you have Beatles and Star Wars, Iron Maiden. They come with a soundtrack to you already. There are things that you are going to incorporate in the games. You also have other things like Deadpool and you have, well, you mentioned monsters, but even Black Knight, you're integrating the new stuff, Jurassic Park. Yes, you have the soundtrack, but everything else you are going to be doing. So how do you approach all these different sound options when you have a lot of assets or little assets? Well, that's the fun part. It's never boring. You know, everything is different. But Beatles, I wanted the fanfares in there to sound kind of like the era, like Ed Sullivan show kind of, or any show of the day, you know. So that one is, that kind of directs itself as how the whole package should sound. And I had EM sounding chime stuff. Yeah, that's pretty much, I mean, like I said, trying to keep it authentic to its period, same way with Ghostbusters. I wanted it to sound like the era, and same with Munsters. So I'm looking at the list of games you've worked on. I mean, just in 2020 alone, you have Ninja Turtles, Heavy Metal and Avengers. Is it hard to keep projects straight when you have so many going on at the same time? Not really. I mean, I did five in 2018. Like you said, you had five. You had Iron Maiden, Supreme, Deadpool, Beatles and Primus all that year. Right. How'd you keep them all straight? And working on Munsters because it came out in January of 2019. And what does Supreme sound like? I love the soundtrack for Supreme. Yeah, I love Supreme. It's old retro, like electronic sounds. And they didn't they didn't want background music on it. But Tanya had a program that emulated old kind of patch synthesizer stuff. And we were playing around with it in his office. And he landed on one. I was like, oh, that's so cool. Can we record that? So we recorded some background stuff that ended up in the game, and I really liked the way Supreme came out. I wish more people could play it. So, Jerry, you have on your collection list, do I see this correctly, 28 games? 28 pins, and I've got 15 classic vids, like Pac-Man, Frogger, Galaga, and this pack, and Tempest, and all that kind of stuff. Okay, so I'm not necessarily saying your favorite. What are the top five that you play the most? I could probably give you top five non-stern because I've had those longer. Twilight Zone, Shadow, Indiana Jones. Oh, Banzai Run. I love Banzai Run. Nice. Yeah. Banzai Run's a hard one, especially when you get to the backbox. Yeah. I've had that a long time, too. I'm glad I got one before prices went so crazy. I got a – my Twilight Zone was my first game. I got that for $19.75, and I probably overpaid because it was – eBay was new, and I didn't know to wait until the last second to bid. So I probably could have picked it up cheaper. But, yeah, those were the days. Yeah, I've heard of those days when people would be like, well, it's $500. Well, okay, I'll buy it. Right. Oh, I mean, I have a day to East Jurassic Park right now. I paid $800 for that one years ago. $900 for my Gilligan, I think. So, you know, I'm... Kate, Gilligan's Island always fascinates me because they made a lot of these. Like 4,000, you know, according to the website, 4,100. Yeah, you wouldn't believe how many people have said, why do you own a Gilligan? Okay, but I've never seen one. Really? That's like 4,000 games. That's still a high-production game. Like, I've never seen one. Well, I grew up on the show. I mean, I've seen every episode probably 10 times, and the game is fun to me. It plays like kind of a System 11 to me, and it's challenging. I mean, you have to get all five of the island shots in a certain amount of time to get your 50 million, and I'm not a great player. I mean, we were making Godzilla, and I watched Keith play it, and I'm just like, wow, I can never do that. You know, I play for fun and I think I frustrate Dwight cause you know, I'm not, I don't usually read rules. I just play. And you know, he's like, well, I'm doing this with the rules. I want you to know all of it. And I go, my brain doesn't work like yours. You know, you're, I don't, I can't grasp all that, you know? So, uh, um, but yeah, I mean, to me, it's just Gilligan is fun. I mean, it's not, you know, it's not super deep, but it's fun. and uh i can i tell you my marianne story absolutely so she was here in town in 2016 she went to u-dub um and i think she was miss university of washington back when she went to school but she she was here uh doing an appearance in 2016 and so i went and i had my my you know charter uh minnow charters t-shirt on you know my gilligan shirt and and uh i was having her sign actually an apron card for my game. And she's like, so this is your childhood, huh? And I said, yeah, I've seen probably every one 10 times. And she goes, I'm old enough to be your mother. And I said, yeah, I would still date you. And she immediately goes, what are you doing tonight? I mean, she was so quick. But yeah, she was great. My favorite about Gilligan's Island, though, is that forever it was like, I know they didn't have that many seasons. They had like, what, three seasons? Yeah, three seasons. Okay, I always thought it was hilarious where they had at the very end, they named all of them except for the Professor and Marianne. Well, that was the first season. They did and the rest, which blew me away. Yeah, first season, but they changed it for second and third. Yeah. No, it's just kind of funny, and the rest. So what's your favorite game? Right now, I would have to say Godzilla. I am so blown away. That game is so good. I find something new in it every time I play it, and it's just so good. So the games that I alternate between, Beatles, because I love the classic feel. And when you're saying that you wanted to capture the era, it does for me. And I love playing that. Iron Maiden, I grew up on Iron Maiden, so I'm actually a big fan of the music. I know that a lot of people counted as a negative on the game, but actually it's a huge positive for me. So that's a great package. And, you know, tonight I helped my friend update his update, his Mandalorian code. And we had a blast playing that. So I. Yeah, I mean, that I had a good year last year, Mando and then Godzilla to two great ones in the same year. I'm happy with both how both of those turned out sound wise. Yeah, and Godzilla I play a lot too. They are in my new collection, so I alternate between all of those. But that's what I tend to play the most. If I want to come down and just have a quicker game, then I tend to play the stern parts of the Caribbean or I play Deadpool. Nice. What about you? About me? You have more? Yeah. He listed a lot. It fills my face. It fills a lot of faces. I know. I could just list off my whole collection. You know, it's funny because I have a better appreciation for sound now. Between the new stuff, I just picked up a Whitewater, and I didn't realize how much of the sound does actually make a game because it just links something in your brain to moments. Yeah. Especially with, like, Vacation Jackpot, all the sounds and everything coming at you, just blowing up that game. I don't know. You know, it's funny because we always talk about these games. It's like, what makes a game so excellent? And when I think of, like, great-sounding games, I also think of, like, the jackpot sound in Getaway 2. Right. Or, you know, jackpot in Adam's Family or Twilight Zone. It's just something like, I'm doing something awesome in this game. All three of those are Chris Granner, right? Yeah. Yeah, Chris Granner did, I think, all four because he did Whitewater as well. Right, right. Oh, I forgot. Yeah, yeah. And so, I don't know. I guess one of my favorites of all time is World Cup soccer, and it's because it's been in my collection the longest, but everyone loves it. It's just a good game for beginner. It's a good game for novice and whatnot, and the sounds on it are just great. Yeah, I mean, Chris Granter, Dan Forden, Brian Schmidt, David Thiel. I mean, I have big shoes to fill to do sound. That was the crazy thing, you know, that I went in there and luckily I had David to call when I got the Ghostbusters gig. You know, there were several times where I called him and goes, okay, how do I do this? You know, code-wise stuff, because I've never done code stuff. And I have to, you know, do files and mix the game and all that stuff. And so he was very nice to answer my calls and answer my questions a few times. Um, but I, you know, I'm a big fan of all those guys and I, well, a fan of Paul Heiss too. You know, you don't really, you don't hear much from him or Vince Pontarelli. Um, although George had him do some stuff in Deadpool, but I'd love to hear you guys should reach out to him. I'd love to hear Paul Heiss because I've got three of his games, Creature, Judge Dredd, and, uh, um, he did, uh, Bram Stoker's Dracula too. And I love the, the Dracula sound package, you know, with the pitched, uh, pop bumpers and just the whole atmosphere of that game. Oh, yeah, that sound package is amazing. It makes that game. You know, so I told Dwight, and he's like, you can stop telling me that. You've been here over seven years. He's like, you know, he's my work wife. Everybody goes, man, you guys, we just hit it off, and I love him, and I loved Lyman, and the fact that those two guys treated me respectfully. And, I mean, you know, I didn't know a thing. Didn't have any back catalog. Now I can say, here's my greatest hits. But back then, you know, they could have been just like, I'm not working with this guy. Or, you know, just – but both of them were very nice. And, I mean, I learned a lot about how to make a great game from Dwight on Ghostbusters. And yeah I just always be forever grateful to him and to George I mean you know George has got a good team there And I mean it cool that he putting together a whole team for the future of pinball of people that love pinball. You know, it's not just a job. And so, yeah, I mean, I got to make two games with Lyman and, you know, miss him. That was that was I had dinner with Penny and him and my wife and I had dinner at Expo last year. And and he and I were texting back and forth with each other just a few days before he was gone. I mean, we we had a love of do-si-dos Girl Scout cookies. And he sent me a picture of his and was making fun because he got his before I got mine. And, you know, I just never thought that things would turn out that way. I laughed more with him than, you know, just about anybody. He would pick me up at seven in the morning from the hotel and then we'd go work. And then but just I mean, go to lunch and just laugh. I told him all the time, you know, you could have been a stand up comedian because he was just hilarious. It's funny because I think a lot of us think of when we see Lyman, he's quite very quiet and reserve, you know, at least for my impression. besides the interviews and stuff he did, but it always seemed like when they talked to him, he didn't really want to talk about himself. You'd rather. Yeah. Very shy. I mean, he just, you know, I mean, he, um, he was private guy and, uh, but, but then you've seen the, the giant laugh. I mean, I love, but it made me tear up seeing that clip that they played from the cactus Canyon thing where he's laughing so big. Cause that's what I remember about him. You know, we, uh, I, I forgot, I didn't write them down. I had like a, my top five list of things that he said that were hilarious because he didn't intend to. Well, I'll tell you one. We were looking at a CAD drawing on the wall of a game that didn't get produced, a play field that someone had designed. And I said, what do you think? He goes, I think I've already played it in my mind and walked away. You walked away on ball one. Right. So, yeah, and, you know, he was very funny. And, you know, we had lots of laughs. And, you know, on vacation, he would text me pictures of his Mai Tai and, you know, always call and say happy birthday or Merry Christmas or what, you know. And it meant a lot to me that he told me when he left. He's like, you know, I consider you a real friend and not just a work friend. And I hope, you know, we get to do a game together again sometime. And, I mean, that meant a lot to me because, like I said, you know, I mean, he's worked with the best of the best and he's considered one of the best. And so I really, you know, I will always be thankful to Dwight and Lyman and the way they treated me working with me on my first game with each of them. It certainly does make a difference. Well, a couple of takeaways, I guess. I think it shows that we don't really know what's going on inside people's heads. Right. Yeah. No, I'm just saying we don't know what they're going through. So they could even be putting on a brave face. I mean, to be I've never really talked about this before. My my brother in law committed suicide about 10 years ago. And we like we had no idea. We had no idea that he was dealing with this deep anxiety, depression, and eventually it just overwhelmed him. And, you know, it's it's it's such a shock. And it reminds me that, you know what, it's. You want to try to leave people with a positive vibe because that that really could be the last time that you see them. Yeah. Well, and I told my wife, I said, you know, we were texting a couple of days ago and I wish I had called him and, you know, maybe. And she goes, you can't can't live with the maybe she goes, you know, there's nothing you could do. And I said, well, I just wish I could have talked to him one more time, you know. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I I so admire Penny for putting that out there and helping. I think that helped a lot of people that struggle and, you know, because you look at this guy and he's laughing all the time and he's great at his job and you think everything's perfect and, you know, you never know. So that's a good point you make. So, you know, I would that's why I'm talking about it, because I think she did such a service to help somebody struggling. I mean, I think we've all been down at one time or another and and, you know, and may have thought that even. But it's it's you know, I hope that if somebody listening to this is going through that, that you'll talk to somebody or or not go all the way. I would say it's a moment. It's a moment that we can recognize his greatness. And the bottom line is he's not summarized by his by his struggle with depression. Yeah. Like he's summarized by all the people he touched, how he welcomed you to Stern and everybody. I've never heard anybody say a negative thing about him. And so the legacy is much greater than the tragic end. And yes, it's and I also I also applaud Penny for being up front with this because a lot of people I'm glad that we're able to talk about mental health nowadays. Yeah, because there are there's still a stigma with it. But I think it's it's getting lower where people are like, you know what, if if there's something wrong, I really do. I should reach out and I should talk with someone. Yeah. Well, and, you know, he was very shy, private, didn't want to be, you know, he didn't want people coming up to him and saying, oh, you're great. Because, you know, he just liked to, he would talk to one person, but he didn't like talking to groups. But his main thing was, I want to make a great game. I don't know, maybe that's when we got along, because I said the same thing. I said, you know, I don't care how long it takes or how much work it is. I just want to make a great game. And, you know, when we were making Elvira, he would tell Greg, I just want to make a great game for you, Greg, you know, because of that team, of the Greg and Dennis, it gave me a chance to see the creative genius of that team is Greg. I mean, Greg came up with the characters and the script and, you know, he Elvira was a lot of Greg's creation. You know, I think he he could have kept, you know, supplying ideas for months to come if we had had time to put them in. But yeah, and you will not find a nicer person than Greg Freres. I mean, he's he is a great, great guy. There's a lot of great people there, man. You know, I love I love a lot of them. And Mike Vinikour is one, you know, we you guys maybe you could have him on. He's he's got interesting stories. I didn't know until a couple of months ago because we were talking about the crazy thing that, you know, how your life could be different with one or two different moments. And he's like, yeah, I happen to have a game T-shirt on from a game I loved at a bar. And this guy's like, oh, you like that game? And he said, yeah, it's my favorite game. And he's like, you know, I work in gaming. I work at that company. And Mike ended up having a chance to go over there, talk to him, and get in gaming because he was at a bar with a certain T-shirt on one night. I mean, crazy life moments. Yeah. Well, and I think that you touched on it a little bit ago. I think people that are in pinball right now love pinball, and that's what's making such a great product. I look at the games that are being produced now, and every single game feels like it is a passion project on some level. And it's because all these people love pinball, and they want to put their heart into it. And the end product is really showing that. And I think we're at a really great time in pinball because of that, because the game has been so elevated to a level that we've never seen before because of it. Yeah, I mean, I still love the classics, but I you know, it is it is nice to have all the new elements in pinball that you get. I mean, and I like I'm for I'm updating, updating four or five games right now, you know, through Insider Connected auto updates in my game room. That's a nice feature, too. i i updated okay okay here's my question are they updating fast for you because i basically my rush kept timing out and i don't know if it was my connection so i had to download but that's like 11 gigabytes that i had to download well i've been in here um talking so i don't know i'll have to go back down and check on them but uh yeah like iron maiden updated um and godzilla updated but But like Mandalorian, I just had to do it. And Rush, that was just too much. So I still have to do Deadpool, Jurassic Park, Led Zeppelin, and Infinity Quest. Nice. I love Avengers, the way it shoots. I think that might be my favorite Keith shooter, really. Yeah, it's an awesome game. um yeah and i and i finally got the fix for the captain marvel shot so that makes that so much better but it's one of the coolest ones just because the ball moves fluidly in so many ways in that game i love that power shot too where it holds it you know oh it's so great and and the the drop that you hit uh i don't know what is it that eggplant ramp or whatever it's called that one that you can hit from anywhere. It's such a fun, repeatable shot. Yeah, I mean, I'm so lucky getting to work on all four of his games. I mean, that's the thing. I'm just grateful still. Somebody said to me recently, a guy who's been in pinball, and I knew. And see, I've known people from meeting them at Expo. I went to my first one in 2004, and I was the guy every year hauling tons of junk through the autograph line, getting it signed. And, you know, I was looking for a picture the other night and I found one from 2007 with George and John Yowsey and me. And I just sent it to George and said, you know, never would have thought a few years later I'd be working with you. And, you know, thanks for giving me a chance. It's just I it's crazy because I had I feel so blessed. I had a great radio career. Um, and I, you know, I got to do mornings and I, my, my last on-air job was mornings in Houston. And, uh, then I started doing production and voice work. And so I still have a lot of, uh, clients that I have to this day. Um, one for over 30 years, I, I, I started on a, uh, voicing a TV station in Mobile, Alabama when I was 19 and I'm still on retainer with him and I'm 54 now. So it's been a while, but, um, yeah, I've been Houston three Ford. I mean, I've been on 20 years on, on those. Um, but, uh, so then, you know, I, I was working at home and, and, and just, I, that's why I was like, I'm so grateful. This is a, a second great career that I never expected. And, and, you know, I, it's still a privilege to, to walk out into the factory and go, wow, I work here. You know, I mean, if you love pinball, it's like the, you know, the, how can you not be grateful and, and, and in awe of walking through the factory at night thinking, man, I used to go through the autograph line and here I am working here. How long does it take to make a sound package? I'm usually working. I mean, not all day, every day, but I'm on call for as things develop probably about a year. Okay. And since you're working on multiple at a time, then you haven't spaced out. You're not working on the same project every day. You're kind of flopping back and forth. Sometimes, you know, depending on how many. But I love that. I mean, I don't, you know, I love shifting gears and I love to be busy all the time. I mean, I look back at 2018. Now I got I did five games, took a two week European vacation and got married. And I'm like, how did I do all that in one year? but you know, I enjoy that. I enjoy working all the time. So I, I, uh, right now I'm getting to do, um, a little bit of, of things with several people. Um, and that's fun. I'm getting to work, uh, some with Lonnie now and some with Mark Panaccio, which, you know, he, he introduced himself. I was like, man, I got your name on games in my house. I love fish tails and, and Elvira and the party monsters he did, you know? So, uh, um, that's fun. I, I, I like, I like doing whatever. I'm the whatever guy. Anything they ask me to do, I'll do. And I'll stay there as long as they want me to be there. I know one day there'll be some new kid who did what I did and says, hey, give me a shot. And I'm okay with that. If it ends tomorrow, I've had a great time there, and I've made some stuff that I'll still get to play a few years from now and that that maybe people will remember. I've got to ask, you've got a few games under your belt that have been previously made before. Not like remade, but like Elvirus got two games previous to House of Horrors. You've got a Ninja Turtles game that was made with Data East and Jurassic Park. Did any of those games kind of influence your sound, or did you go back to them to kind of dig up some sounds that may be good to reuse in the newer games? No. I mean, I have not played the original Turtles. I own a Data East Jurassic Park. And for the Elvira games, Greg and Lyman owned a Scared Stiff, and he said, you know, I kind of want some of that feel to it. And, of course, we got Tim Kittrow back. I mean, you know, can't get any better than Kittrow and Rick Z for voiceovers. Those two guys are, you know, just fun, fun sessions and amazing. When you think how much Tim Kittsrow did in Elvira, you know, House of Horrors, I mean, he's so many voices, including the trailer at the end, and those are hilarious. You know, that's another Greg idea, you know, the trailers at the end. Yeah, I love those. That whole package is great, too. It's just. Well, that was a fun one because there's so many different kinds of music in there. You know, Greg said we want to do Jump, Drive and Wail and Shout. And, you know, you've got the the music that sounds like the old movies. And then you've got the tiki music, you know, and it's just it's a lot. It's kind of well, kind of like Deadpool, a lot of different styles in Deadpool. And I I kind of had the originally that that attitude rock kind of feel. and then it started morphing into something funny and more fun. And so I turned in the Katana Rama song, the Polka song, and George was like, this is so funny. And he kind of, he's like, you know, he called me one night driving home. He's like, let's do songs with lyrics. And I was like, okay, what do you have in mind? He's like, let's do a country, a rap, and a metal, and like, you know, an R&B. And so I called Sean and actually Christy, his wife, she does the country song. And then I call this rapper guy that's, he's actually, it's funny, he's actually a real estate agent. My wife's a realtor. And so this guy is a real estate agent, but he does rap shows too. So he did the Boom song, which is awesome. And then there's another friend that I saw playing drums and he ended up doing the metal song. I thought he was just going to drum on it, but he did the vocals on it, too. And George is like, I just want that one to be, you know, all just like pinball things, like flipper, bumpers. And so it doesn't really make any sense. And then so I woke up one Saturday morning, and I had this little rhythm track. And I started, because when George says R&B, I'm thinking Barry White, you know. So I came down, and I was just like making up stuff that sounded dirty. You know, so I was like, I got six balls for you, baby. And so I sent that to George and Tanya. I go, is this a thing or not? Should I? And they're like, yeah, that's funny. Is that you? And I was like, yeah. So I did some more. And then I had Christy sing, you know, the Deadpool. And then Tanya was like, I think she should sing everything, like repeat everything that I'm saying, you know, like multiball, Deadpool all night, all that kind of stuff. And he's like, sax. It needs some sax, too. So I said, can you give me some sacks? And I put it all together, and it turned out funny, I hope. I hope people like all those. But, I mean, George is so creative, and I knew that. I watched that Tilt making of the Pinball 2000 video, and just all the innovations they did in such a short time about cabinet redesign and all the things that are different from a normal pinball game, and George is still that way. I mean, he's probably the most creative guy I've ever seen. And if there's an issue, he's like, you know, let's not get upset about it. Let's fix it. I mean, he's the perfect person for that job, you know. Yeah. Well, I will say Revenge from Mars is still – it's a hilarious game. My friend still has it. It's a mint condition. So I play it, and I'm thinking, this is amazing. This is, what, 25 years old technology or 23 years old technology? And when you consider how fast it was developed and how much different it is from a normal pinball game up until then, it's amazing. Yeah. I have one. I love it, too. It's fun. Yeah. I need to find another It one of the ones that got me into pinball The night that I actually got introduced to pinball that the one i ended on and was like holy crap like this is yeah so how you guys get into pinball uh my wife cousin we we had to go stay with them out in saratoga springs which is south of salt lake um but west of me about locked 20 minutes yeah so so we kind of got locked into his house he's like dead bolted from both sides and i need to go get some stuff and then i'm walking through this house of a guy i barely know and i was like um where do i go and i'm hearing noises from the basements i'm like well i guess i'll work my way down there and see if i can find him so i open i get down there knock on the door he says come in i open the door and he had uh i want to say about 15 to 20 pinball machines in this room and i'm like what the heck is this and he's like what do you need and i tell him and he's like I'm like but I want to come back and try this all out and he's like okay so um I go get my stuff drop it off to my wife our son was like two or three at the time he was really young and I'm like I'm gonna go downstairs and hang out with Sean and anywho the first game I play Circus Voltaire and I was hooked and then he just started one after another Simpsons pinball party Whitewater uh Adam's Family Twilight Zone I mean it was like greatest hits and this was back in uh this is 2011, 2012, somewhere around there. So, I mean, it was right around the time that was was getting ready to come out because he was talking about, yeah, there's a new company. They've, they've, they've got the license for wizard of Oz and all that stuff. So to kind of gauge a timeline, but yeah, we ended on revenge for Mars. I just thought that was the coolest game with the holographics and everything. It's just such a unique game. And I wish we would have saw more. I wish there would have been, I wish it would have not ended with those two games, but it is. Yeah, that's great too. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. My wife just don't take the secretary. Mine was just dumb luck. I was doing a man cave and I was looking for, hey, it'd be fun to – because I grew up on Silver Spoons, right? Yeah. And, you know, everybody thought that was the coolest thing in the world that this guy had an arcade game in his house. And so I was like, you know, that would be kind of cool. So I was looking for – there was a local guy here that sold arcade games. His daughter is a nurse who I work with, and so she just sent me to him. So I went over to check out some games he had, and he had just barely picked up three home-use-only games from a house. And he just said, well, what about a pinball machine? So I just said, well, there were three of them. One of them was Corvette. One of them, I can't remember what that was. It was an old game. And one of them was Simpsons Pinball Party. And my wife said, well, let's go to the Simpsons. Nice. And I never played pinball even before that. So my first real experience playing pinball was buying one. Me too. Yeah, I love Twilight Zone, the TV show. And then I was, my girlfriend at the time in 94, they had this giving tree at the Super K Mart. I don't know if you remember those where you go pick a name off there and buy a present and stuff. She wanted to do that. So we stopped in the Super K Mart there in Houston, I think on Westheimer. I remember going to the customer service department, and there was a Twilight Zone there. And I was like, wow. I mean, I hadn't seen pinball, didn't know. I was like, I got to get one of these someday. And so when eBay came around, you know, I found one, bought it, got it shipped to me, and I had to call the guy. I go, how do I put the balls in this thing? He's like, oh, you undo the lock down bar and slide the glass off. And, I mean, I knew nothing. And then I was like, man, first arcade game I remember playing was like a cocktail Pac-Man and Tempest. And he's like, oh, yeah, I got both of those. And so I was like, send those too. So I had like three games in no time. And then you know what happens after that, you know. Yeah, they do multiply. My childhood was Gilligan and the Universal Monsters. And so the next thing I got was Creature. And then after that, I went to buy some tickets at Ticketmaster at this supermarket called Fiesta around the corner from my house. And they had an Addams Family. And I had never played it, never seen it. And so I dropped some money in that while I was waiting for Ticketmaster to open. And the hand came out and the magnets threw the ball around. And I was like, oh, got to get one of these. So that was my third. so I mean didn't know anything at the time but I just knew I loved this immediately well it's funny that you said that about like the calling to even figure out how to get the balls in I remember when I was first in the hobby I had sold off my data east change me to turtles and the people called me they drove three hours they picked it up they took it back and they played it and it was working fine and so when they get it home and the ball's not getting ejecting out into the the trough like you sold us a faulty game i'm like is the game level and they're like hold on and so they went and leveled it and like oh it's working great never mind but i learned how to work on them because you know and and you had to i i yeah right and i love i love working on them as much as playing them i mean i've done several playfield swaps and i just finished a evil kenevil was the was the big thing of my youth and six million dollar man but like, you know, in 77, I think it was for Christmas. I got the evil Knievel bike and, you know, I had all the toys. And, uh, um, so I just finished doing a play field swap, a cabinet paint and a restore on an evil Knievel I just got. So that's, uh, that's my newest. I've never owned a ballet and I've never owned anything, you know, past, I don't know, what's my oldest space shuttles, my oldest before that. So, um, so yeah, I'm, uh, I'm looking forward to playing that. But I learned that I like working on them and I don't mind board work, but the cabinet part is not my favorite to do a cabinet. I'm no Chris Hutchins or Brian Kelly. My mind does not look as good as their jobs. But, you know, I don't plan on selling it. Yeah. Yeah. Now, you also just took a big trip, didn't you? I heard you were in Robert Englunds and you dropped by our friend Mark's house. I was, yeah. Well, you know, the Beatles are my favorite band. Rolling Stones are my second favorite. And so they announced their 60th tour in March, I think. And I told my wife, I said, oh, man, the Stones are playing in Liverpool on my birthday. How cool would that be to go? And she's like, well, you should do it. And I was like, no, I saw them last year, and I don't need to go. And I was like, you know, no, no, no. So I forgot about it. I didn't forget about it, but I was just denying myself. And so, because it's not practical to flag, you know, to go see a concert. So a couple of days before the pit ticket sold out and I was like, well, I don't want to go unless I can be close. And so that solved that. So a couple of days before I saw a video of their first, Liverpool was their third night of the tour. So I saw a video from the first night and I was like, man, I wish I'd gone. So I looked and they had opened up a few more pit tickets. So I told her, I was like, they just opened pit tickets. She's like, buy it and book the next flight out and go. And I was like, really? And she's like, just do it. So I did. I got the last seat on the next flight out and she took me to the airport. And I went on Tuesday, got to London the next afternoon. And well, I called Marc Silk right after I bought it. And I said, so I'm going to be in your neighborhood tomorrow afternoon. And he's like, well, you got to come over. So I stayed at his house the first night in Birmingham and then took the train up to Liverpool, saw the show. It was the most amazing birthday. And I never, you know, my pictures look like, you know, Mick is 10 feet away. I mean, it's just the whole thing was great. Next morning, I got up and went to a couple Beatles museums and got to the end of one of them. And they had the Beatles game that I did sound on in the Beatles museum. And I was like, okay, this is surreal. my favorite band and and uh and then so i took the train down went to see billy eilish and then the next day i went to back to the future the musical and that was amazing it comes to broadway next year and i i mean if you get a chance to go it it was just the production values were better than anything i've ever seen and it was the actors were great and it's well worth it so then i ended up getting upgraded on the way back so i was like okay this birthday could not have been better but yes luckily i had miles i didn't have to pay you know i flew on miles i would not have bought a a an international ticket uh round trip ticket a day before and spent that kind of money but so i was fortunate that sounds like the perfect birthday man that's it was i mean it was just i mean not everything was great and so i have to thank my wife jennifer who who made made me go in quotes. She twisted your arm. Yes. Yeah. But so I, one of my Uber drivers there, he's like, are you here by yourself? And I said, yeah, my wife told me, go have a fun birthday adventure. And he said, wow, my wife would not have said that. I said, yeah, I really lucked out with her. She's awesome. Nice. Um, I have one more question before we wrap this up. Uh, maybe, maybe two. Um, The one question is, Mandalorian was kind of a tight time schedule from the time that you guys got the licensed actual product coming out. Was that one different from the other ones that you did? Was it kind of weird being trickled out and watching the show as you're doing the game kind of thing? Probably not for me as much as the guys like Brian and Dwight who were coming up with what storylines they wanted to use in the game. I mean, by the time it came to my part, that was all decided, you know. And so we they gave us the episodes as they came out for, you know, for the second season. And so, yeah, probably like I say, there's so many people involved in making a pinball game that you never even think about. And all those creative minds that come up with the modes and the planning and all that, that take so much time, you know, don't get a lot of credit. It's kind of like a movie, you know. There's a handful of us who get the starring role, and then there's that long list of credits that roll after that. There's a lot of people that do a great job that you never hear about. So, yeah, I, you know, I can't I can't say how thankful I am to be a part of the team. And, you know, it's it's the team's choice. I mean, I'm a contractor, so they can choose to use me or not. And so I'm really thankful that that a lot of people, including Keith, for four times and all of Dwight's games since 2016, I've gotten to do. OK, my last question, and if we need to cut this out, we can. I was sent this sound clip. Okay, can you tell what that was? I can't, no. Ah, son of a gun. What is that? Is it Wheel of Fortune or what is that? It kind of sounds like Wheel of Fortune. It's supposed to be like a roulette from Vegas, I guess. Anywho. Is it a – well, it's those standard orchestra hits from the 90s. I mean, it sounds like some bonus stuff I did in a game. Yeah, he's going to say, did you still – were you walking through Vegas when you stole the sounds for Godzilla – or not Godzilla, Ghostbusters? That is – well, you know, that was the sound on those records in the late 80s, early 90s, those orc hits. um and yeah i mean they that was era appropriate so those were in there but so is that from a some kind of game and in vegas yeah he was actually was in melbourne he was working he was walking past as one of those giant uh roulette wheels and so i guess it's a it's a digital roulette roulette wheel that was spinning and then every time you know the ball would flop yeah because i mean they're just pitched orchestra hits like you know yeah i've used those kind of same kind of things for bonus um and uh you know count ups yeah that's funny though that is i mean when you when you played it i was like yeah i've heard that kind of sound before yeah but he was probably walking through like where's ghostbusters at like where's right right well you got anything else for scott no we uh we're just um really thankful that jerry came on uh want to get you a hat uh we just ordered some so hopefully we'll get them in stock and so we'll get that information and we'll be able to send one out oh yeah i'll see you guys at expo okay okay i'm planning on being there unless something changed i'm trying to make it i i booked um i put in my request but right now i'm on the wait list for vacation time oh okay yeah he's always he's always vacationing so So no, it's right now we're super short staffed. And so we can only let four people off at a time. So it's really tight. Well, I that's one fortunate thing for me because I really can work anywhere. I mean, I did stuff on Godzilla from the hotel room in in Liverpool. You know, as long as I have a computer and a microphone, I mean, I have my travel bag ready to go all the time. And and I can work a little in the room, go have fun at night. So, I mean, it's I'm I'm very grateful for what I get to do, you know, so I hope I hope this came off OK for you guys. Oh, came out. No, it was great. Loved it. All right. Well, thank you guys. Definitely. Well, we appreciate you coming on and joining us. If tell us a little bit more about the Seattle show, you still work with that, right? yeah we um after 2008 the first one uh we saw it was going to be successful because we didn't know if anyone would show up and we had over a thousand people and so i said to the two guys who who started it and put the money in i said you know we either have to probably make no money or all of us should get some money because there were a lot of there you know eight to twelve volunteers that worked really hard. And he said, why don't we just make it and nobody makes any money. So they registered as an official 501C. And since 2009 up until now, nobody has taken a dime from the show, including board members, organizers, and whatever extra money there is every year is put back into the show and to scholarships. Usually 5,000 or sometimes 10,000 if we have enough money, didn't do any of this last year because, you know, or this year rather, because of being off for two years of COVID, we didn't know what to expect. And so we want to make sure we had enough money to put on the show next year. But yeah, it's, it's great group of people that still, still some of the same people from 2008 that have been there every year since the beginning that put it on. And we had just under 500 games this last time at the show. And, and I can't remember how many it was several maybe 3 000 um so good number yeah um but yeah you guys hopefully can make it out sometime it's a it's great seattle is great in the summertime definitely yeah i would love to come out and do that so if if people want to get a hold of you or if you don't want to be bothered at all jerry uh how do they get a hold of you or just or just tell them now go away um well uh jerry.thompson at sternpinball.com um is my email address okay well we thank you again for jerry for coming on and uh if you want to get a hold of us we are loser kid pinball podcast uh you can get a hold of us at gmail.com or on the socials at loser kid pinball that's facebook instagram twitter twitch um or just scott or josh on facebook that's probably the easiest way to get ahold of us. Don't forget, we do have Flippin' the Script coming up here at Expo. We're excited for it, and we want to thank everyone that has pitched in to help us with the charity for kids with autism, and we are so excited to be doing this to help those that are affected by autism. You got anything else for us, Scott? Nope, just have a great rest of the summer where our kids are going back to school in a week, and I can't Same here. Two weeks for us. And we'll see you in two weeks. Shut up and sit down. We'll be right back.