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Episode 60 - Die on This Hill: World Poker Tour

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·56m 8s·analyzed·Dec 9, 2024
Buzzsprout-16194777
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Jeff Hart defends World Poker Tour as underrated 2006 Stern with stellar rules and layout despite poor art.

Summary

In this 'Die on This Hill' episode, Jeff Hart defends World Poker Tour (Stern 2006, first SAM game) against community criticism, arguing it features excellent gameplay, rules depth, and an impressive array of 16 drop targets despite widely acknowledged art package problems. The hosts and guest discuss the game's design pedigree (Steve Ritchie, Keith Johnson, Chris Graner), playfield layout, upper playfield issues, rule complexity, and community sentiment that ranks it #216 on Pinside despite featuring star-level talent.

Key Claims

  • World Poker Tour was the first SAM game, replacing the White Star platform

    high confidence · Alan establishes this as factual introduction to the game

  • Finside lists production run at 3,000 units, though hosts express skepticism about this figure since Stern doesn't release official numbers

    low confidence · Alan notes this seems suspicious and questions the source reliability

  • The game has 16 drop targets, an absurd amount for the era

    high confidence · Repeatedly cited throughout; Jeff calls it 'nuts' and 'awe-inspiring'

  • Keith Johnson's design philosophy favors long, grindy, deep games

    medium confidence · Jeff and Alex reference his pattern across Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party, Wizard of Oz as examples

  • Steve Ritchie invented the upper playfield but isn't particularly good at designing them

    medium confidence · Jeff's assertion; playful but stated as design analysis

  • There's a setting to disable the post that stops the ball on ramps, which would increase flow

    medium confidence · Alan mentions this as a setup option he's heard about but hasn't personally experienced

  • The 2000s era of Stern games will eventually be re-evaluated positively like 1990s Japanese cars

    low confidence · Alan's speculation about future collector/player sentiment

  • Keith Johnson and Lyman Sheets pioneered deep rule sets in pinball

    medium confidence · Discussed as historical trend in rule design evolution

Notable Quotes

  • “It's all killer, no filler.”

    Jeff Hart @ early segment — Opening thesis defending the game's team composition

  • “Steve Ritchie invented the upper playfield and he's not good at them. I'm sorry.”

    Jeff Hart @ upper playfield discussion — Bold design criticism of legendary designer's weakness

  • “You give me that many drop targets like, this is why I love EMs, dude. I'm just like. Yeah, I'm like a simple man.”

    Alex @ drop target discussion — Illustrates defender's philosophy on game enjoyment despite complexity

  • “I have an uncle who does yoga.”

    Jeff Hart @ mental illness reference — Humorous deflection using non-sequitur (Billy Madison reference)

  • “If you think you've played it, it's not for you, that's okay. That's fine. But when Austin Powers and Stern Avengers is above it...”

    Jeff Hart @ Pinside ranking discussion — Challenges Pinside ranking credibility by citing worse-ranked alternatives

  • “Cheap looking that's subjective i think i'll concede that point honestly but repetitive i don't know all pinball is repetitive”

    Jeff Hart @ community review discussion — Addresses fundamental criticism with philosophical counterargument

  • “It's unfortunate that it's not maybe a better looking game. Oh, I thought you were going to say it's unfortunate it's not 17 drops.”

    Jeff Hart / Alan (exchange) @ art discussion — Humor acknowledging both art weakness and drop target obsession

  • “This is like the dark era. It's just fell out of favor hard at the moment.”

    Alan @ era positioning — Describes 2000s Stern as culturally undervalued

Entities

World Poker TourgameSteve RitchiepersonKeith JohnsonpersonChris GranerpersonMark RudepersonDwight SullivanpersonMark GalvezpersonJeff HartpersonAlanperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Podcast series 'Die on This Hill' invites passionate defenders of controversial/poorly-ranked games

    high · Episode format explicitly structured to have guest defend game against community criticism; Pinside rankings cited as baseline of community opinion

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: World Poker Tour is significantly undervalued on community rankings (#216 on Pinside) relative to its design pedigree and mechanical depth

    high · Multiple references to superior designers/programmers (Ritchie, Johnson, Graner) on a poorly-ranked game; comparison to Austin Powers ranked #215 treated as absurd

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Art package is widely criticized as 'some of the worst pinball art ever made' despite excellent game rules and mechanics

    high · Jeff concedes Mark Rude's art is poor; hosts discuss potential rushing or executive pressure; alternate translites are more common on WPT than other games due to original being so bad

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Steve Ritchie is legendary designer with notable weakness in upper playfield design

    medium · Jeff's assertion that Ritchie 'invented the upper playfield and he's not good at them'; acknowledgment of this as counterintuitive given his design legacy

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Keith Johnson's design signature: deep rule sets, long gameplay, grindy progression, unobtainable wizard modes

    high · Consistent pattern cited across LoTR, Simpsons, Wizard of Oz; hosts note WPT follows this pattern; referenced as 'Keith Johnson's thing'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.168

0:00
You signed your real name? Of course I did. If you believe in something, you sign your name to it. Alright, I'm gonna tell you right now. I ain't crazy.
0:08
This is the ground you'll die on. Are you sure? Oh my god, are you serious? Son, people can see you. I don't tell you what to do with your money. Don't fucking tell me what to do with mine, okay? I'm not as dumb as you think I am. I will defend myself. He means it, sweetheart. Well, that's because you're an idiot. I will fight and win because I am the most intelligent. You sure about that? I got something I want to say. Well, you motherfuckers think you know who Teddy Powers is. Well, I'm here today to tell you all you don't know shit. Oh, I give up. You're going to get yourself killed, and this time I won't be able to save you. I make you laugh. I'm a clown. I amuse you. I'm here to fucking amuse you. Come on, don't bullshit me. Go ahead and go, but I'm not going to stop yelling, because then that'll mean I lost the fight. So, please leave a T under the mat. I love y'all very much. Peace out.
1:10
Serenity now! Serenity now! What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Okay, a simple wrong would have done just fine, but this makes no sense.
1:41
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. My name is Alan, your host of this podcast and one of the owners of Wedgehead, a pinball bar in Portland, Oregon. Joined with my co-host Alex, the water boy in the basement studio. How are you doing, Alex? I'm doing great, Alan. How about you? Doing fantastic. We can see each other for maybe the first time. The listener doesn't know this, but we used to hide behind shields to try to get better audio. But now we can see each other, and I don't know if we're going to make it through these without laughing. Yeah, the direct eye contact during the intro. But we are also joined by our good friend, Jeff Hart, who recently joined us for the Death Saves episode. How you doing, Jeff? I'm doing great, but I need to pause here. It's just so funny to me that you guys have like a privacy veil in between yourselves. Yeah, very much. Like a sheet where you couldn't see each other. Yeah, well, I just watched Shogun, and there's the guy with leprosy, and they make him eat his food behind the sheet. It was kind of like that. Yeah.
Alex
person
Lyman Sheetsperson
Pat Lawlorperson
Greg Dunlapperson
John Borgperson
Pinsideorganization
Wedgeheadorganization
Stern Pinballcompany
Lord of the Ringsgame
Simpsons Pinball Partygame
Wizard of Ozgame
Austin Powersgame
  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Configurable ramp post can be disabled for improved flow; factory default slows gameplay with animation delays

    medium · Alan mentions setting exists but hasn't personally experienced it; suggests this modification could make game 'a screamer'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: 2000s Stern era games may experience rehabilitation as 'dark era' viewed positively by next generation of players

    medium · Alan predicts WPT will be re-evaluated like 1990s Japanese cars; acknowledges he got into pinball playing 2000s Sterns and found them fun despite dismissive community sentiment

    • 2:39
    The man behind the curtain a lot of the time here. That's how we recorded the show before. It's very bizarre now being able to see each other. But listeners, hopefully that, you know, the more intimate connection between us comes through to the listeners. But we're doing a special series, our Die on the Hill series, and Jeff is here to defend World Poker Tour. World Poker Tour was a pinball machine released by Stern Pinball in 2006 and was the first Sam game, which was the board and software set that replaced their previous White Star platform. It was based upon the, at the time, extremely popular World Poker Tour, which is now being televised constantly and was designed by Steve Ritchie, with Keith Johnson as the lead programmer, assisted by Dwight Sullivan. Pinball sound GOAT, Chris Graners credited on the sound and music, Mark Galvez on animations, and Mark Rude gets the credit slash blame as the artist for this game, which will probably come up in some of these reviews, I imagine. Finside lists the production run at 3,000 units. Seems kind of massive for this dead time of pinball. That's suspicious. I don't buy it. And I'm not sure how they got that number since Stern doesn't release those numbers. But it's one of those loaded Sterns from this era before the games became noticeably stripped down just a few years later. It's got four flippers, a clear upper playfield, lots of metal ramps and habit trails, two DMD screens, and 16 drop targets. Absurd amount of drop targets. It's insane. But as you may know, if you've listened to the show before, especially on these Die on the Hill episodes, it's not quite everybody's cup of tea. It is currently ranked number 216 on the Pinside list, but it is our guest cup of tea. And today we welcome back a previous guest on the show, an unapologetic pinball cheater. You may know from our episode on guest saves, it's Mr. Jeff Art. How you doing, Jeff? Thank you. I am doing great, and I'm so excited to be here talking about this game because it's amazing. I mean, with that list of names, it's kind of interesting. Most of the time we do these down in the hills, and there might be, like, one name. So I guess, thinking back, we've actually done quite a few that have notable designers and stuff. But a lot of the time, it's people that your casual pinball fan won't recognize. This is, like, all of the best of everyone. Yeah, this is star-studded. This is, like, everyone. There was no—it was a huge license at the time, which is comical. It's got, like, the best programmer they had at the time, the best designer they have at the time, inarguably. Steve Ritchie, the best designer of all time, probably. And, like, with Chris Granner, what happened, man? What happened on this thing? It's all killer, no filler. No. What do you mean what happened? They crushed it. I don't know. What do you mean what happened? They knocked it out of the park is what happened.
    5:20
    Okay, good. We need you to, yeah. We need this energy. So, Jeff, plead your case, man. Tell us why, in the listener, why World Poker Tour actually rips. Let me start here. I want you guys to understand I'm a realist about this, right? That I understand it's not perfect in all aspects. Primarily, I love it for the gameplay, the rules, the flow, the shots, all of those things. The art package, the theme, a little bit more questionable.
    5:51
    How so? What do you mean? What? This is hard because I'm cognizant that actual people worked on this and I hate to like trash anybody's hard work. totally i think this is probably some of the worst pinball art that's ever been made it's it's not good it's not like the back glass is it's not good we'll just have to assume it was uh mark rude we'll have to assume he was rushed yeah maybe he didn't have enough time absolutely i mean i i give people all the grace in the world or like you know execs from on high saying you know we got to have like these dudes in suits behind this uh woman who i'm not sure how she's associated with poker but you know it just gets the guys going it's a good good you know poker lady out front i do remember that this show when it was on tv did have sexy women for no reason like around like just in the same way that like ufc fights or boxing matches have like ring girls they know how to get the views yeah i mean it was stern was just copying that i mean it was a different time but it's also not that different because they still do that shit today it's interesting because it's like the world poker tours i've seen out in the wild i think i've seen more of them with alternate translates than the originals and there's two ways you can go with the alternate translate from what i've seen there's the there's the classy move of uh like just it being like generic poker themed where it's like high res photos of guys hands holding cards and stuff or you can just lean into the scumbag side of the world poker tour theme and just have like just make it slutty yeah yeah yeah just kind of like classless like near nude women it's weird how this is the one that seems to get that translate job more than any other game i've ever seen i think it's probably because the original one's so bad yeah you kind of have to have an alternate one and then there's just like weird dudes who are like let's make it naked girls if this if i owned a world poker tour and maybe i will after you're done convincing me And if anyone else is listening to this and has one and you're looking for an alternate translate idea, just go boot up Windows XP, pull up fucking Solitaire, take a screen cap, print that as a translate. Everyone will love it. I like the Solitaire victory screen with all the cards bouncing around. Dude, people would be like, this is it. They made Microsoft Solitaire into a pinball machine. That's actually a genius. That's my idea. All right, Jeff. So tell us about this layout. tell us about how it shoots because it it's actually like pretty loaded tell us why you like playing this game okay why i like playing this game is you set it off the top 14 drop targets like 16 don't skip those last two excuse me how could i it's actually the amount of drop it seems excessive and it is but it's like there are times when you'll shoot one bank huge bank on the left bank up the center and then a bank on the right kind of like acdc but like way more it'll be like you shoot like the left bank and then you can ricochet off the top and then go over and hit the right like it's so satisfying to like a bank shot triple yeah drop target it feels so good it's like volley the wedgehead they've got on the floor at wedgehead right now bouncing balls off of drop banks is fun the main bank on the left side reminds me of like Atlantis, the Gottlieb Atlantis, with like a long row of drops. Well, it's an eight bank, which is fucking huge by modern standards. It's awesome to see, to be honest. It's awe-inspiring. It's like looking at the fucking Grand Canyon when you see the amount of drop targets on this thing. It's worthy of shedding tears. Like Ron Swanson would allow that. The majesty of it. Crying, acceptable at funerals and the Grand Canyon. But before we get too deep into like the minutiae of, oh, it's got drops, the shots are fun, the rules, whatever. I just want to take a step back. And one of the reasons I love this is because poker is a classic pinball theme, right? They've made tens of machines, like so many poker machines as the theme, right? Card games. Oh, yeah. All the way back to, you know, EMs, solid state. I mean, every era has had just tons of this type of machine, right? Of this exact theme. And I feel like it's poker and pool. Yeah. Poker and billiards are like the classic pinball themes. So this is classic pinball theme with all of the dials turned up to 11. It's like, how many drop targets can we fit in this fucker? Like how complicated can we make the rules? If you look at the play field and just look at how many inserts there are, there's like 40. There's just like so many inserts. It's crazy. It's stupid. It is the king of the card games, I would say. And I don't know if we're going to get another card game. so it's like this might be the king forever but people hate it too that's the problem that's why it's on the show oh no it's good let me talk more let me talk more about it okay so drop targets there's too many of them but in the best way the thing is wide open is the other thing the play field is wide open yeah there's not a bunch of stuff that's like killing your flow or like oh you should you hit you shoot a shot and then it's like post straight down the center or something Like, it's kind of, everything is really far back. It's pretty safe. Pretty safe. That does kind of tend to lead to games where it can play a little bit long. We've had this conversation, I guess, last time I was here about, I kind of like longer playing grindier games. Yeah. So this can tend towards that a little bit. We'll speak about Keith Johnson. He loves long playing really grindy games. Deep games, yeah. Deep games. Keith Johnson, for the listener, he did the rules. Probably best known for Lord of the Rings. And Simpsons Pinball Party. And like those games have so much shit to do. And World Poker Tour. The big three. Who could forget?
    11:42
    They also did Wizard of Oz. Yeah. He's done a bunch of Jersey Jack games. I don't know offhand which ones are his, but. I only brought up Lord of the, I was only bringing up Lord of the Rings because it's like an example. He did Hobbit, I imagine. I think he did. Yeah. Anyway, it's a good example of like people like this stuff. You know, you should like it on World Poker Tour too.
    12:02
    Yeah. Don't be a hypocrite. I think the rules, in some ways, it's kind of classic Keith Johnson, right? They're like overcooked in a lot of respects. There's kind of too much going on, a lot of minutiae. But they're pretty accessible if you're just like, how do I start a multi-ball? How do I start a mode, right? That part is pretty simple. There's modes on this game? You didn't think there were modes? Yes, sir. I mean, aren't you just supposedly collecting hands of cards? Oh, no, no. I think it's called the poker corner. That's where you start your modes. There's a little scoop back there. There's six different modes that you can play. You can stack them in with your multiballs. There's some stuff going on, man. Okay. I'm just shooting drops, dude. You give me drop targets, I'm like... How many inserts are on this thing, Alan? There's some modes, buddy. Also, we haven't even talked about that there's an upper play field on this thing. That's where it comes off the rails, in my opinion. So what goes on up there? Okay. So there's two flippers, pretty wide gap between them. And then there's a little hole where you can shoot a ball in there. And these two bars come down and lock the ball behind the bars. Then you have to shoot the ball that you've locked to start a multi-ball. Other than that, there's really nothing up there to do in the upper play field. It's kind of, it is a bit of a flow killer. I will say, yeah, it kind of goes off the rails. I agree a little bit with that. But I don't hate it as much as some of the upper play fields. Like Game of Thrones, like premium upper play field. I don't like that at all. Like there's a lot of upper play fields that I could just do without this one. I kind of give it some grace maybe just because I like this game. I don't know. If it had a pro version without it, do you think it'd be better? Probably. Steve Ritchie invented the upper play field and he's not good at them.
    13:52
    I'm sorry. You guys are never getting, it's like so many people on this show. He never coming on this show Oh you can come on I mean he was a bad I just said earlier in the episode he literally the best designer of all time He just not good at designing upper play fields And I that my my biggest gripe on this thing is that it got two feeds because it has a Vuck that feeds up there, vertical up kicker, and it also has a ramp that feeds up there. And so it's like, if you're just kind of like flipping around and you don't know what you're doing on this thing, you kind of keep ending up up there. And then, like you mentioned, there's not a lot of progress to be made except for locking a ball in that little fang lock and then getting into a two ball multi ball. And that's just when I've played this thing, it just feels like endless two ball, multi-ball or whatever that one is. That was my complaint. But I feel like that's a setup issue. How do you play this when you play it, Jeff? Like what's your strat? If somebody's going to go out and play this game and the rule sets, we're going to read a lot of reviews where people are like, I have no idea what the hell's going on, man. Like what would you give somebody to go play this on location for the first time and have a good time? Like what would you recommend doing? I think you can play two ball multi-ball and have a good time because you can work towards your other multi-balls while you're in that. I don't think that there's nothing necessarily anything wrong with it. If you're like, well, there's no points on this thing. I would suggest that you need to stack modes with multi-balls. You have to start a mode before you start the two ball multi-ball. Like if you just start the two ball multi-ball naked, it's not worth very many points. How do you start a mode? Like, do you have to qualify it? I believe it starts qualified, but after the first one, you have to finish hands. So if you shoot the ramps, each ramp has an insert, flop, turn, river. I don't want to get too deep in the weeds here, but basically you shoot any combination of ramps three times. That finishes a poker hand. Okay. And once you have finished a poker hand, it relights the modes. And the hands are what drops you've hit before you finish the hands? But you're getting too deep in the weeds for me here. I don't know. Okay, see?
    15:45
    This is the problem. No, it's no problem. It's still fun. There's not a problem here. Or, like, shoot the flop turn river inserts and then just start shooting the flashing drops, I assume. Okay. That seems like I can handle that. And see, I didn't really, like, realize, like, the last time I played this, I did not know what the hell I was doing at all. I didn't either. I never have when I played this game. I enjoy it. You give me that many drop targets. Like, this is why I love EMs, dude. I'm just like. Yeah, I'm like a simple man. Like, you give me a drop target game where I'm having to clear drops, I'm happy. Like, that's fun. Usually I'm content with four, maybe eight drops. You tell me there's fucking 16 drops on this? 16 drops is nuts, dude.
    16:29
    It is nuts. It's unfortunate that it's not maybe a better looking game. Oh, I thought you were going to say it's unfortunate it's not 17 drops. Yeah, well, you know. Can you imagine? This one goes to 17? I'm pretty sure Joker Poker, which is probably the second best poker-related game of all time. I'm pretty sure that one has 15. I can't remember. It has a lot also, maybe 14, 15. So they had to make sure World Poker Tour was just a little bit better. That's the hate mail you can direct to Alex himself. I'm not going to say that this is better than Joker Poker. There's no way I'm saying that. On principle, I never say anything that another person is obviously trying to get me to say. Yeah, before we get into reviews, there's one more thing that I do want to bring up, which is there's a second, like, DMD screen that is built into the playfield itself, which is something that I haven't seen before or since. There have been, like, I guess, LCD screens now. Yeah. And did they, like, didn't Monopoly have one? Or is it, it's above, it has one of these big, the fat DMDs like this, but it's above the playfield, isn't it? I don't remember Monopoly off the top of my head. Oh, you don't know that Pat Lawler masterpiece? No, I've played it. I mean, it's a Greg Dunlap special. Of course I know it. Greg Dunlap, greatest pinball programmer in history. Yeah. Everyone knows that. He was too good. They had to push him out of the industry. That was the problem. Too much heat, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it is interesting that it has, like, a full-size DMD. I mean, I guess it's not really a DMD because it's, like, the little grid of individual letters, kind of. It's interesting, though. It's pretty cool. you know overall i think the playfield art actually looks like as good as this era of a poker game could possibly look if you grade it on a curve of like the time period and we are yes you have to look at it's a feature you know it's a product it's time the translate is genuinely bad in my there's not really much redemption i can't say much about the translate but the playfield in the cabinet art actually look like i'm like this is good it looks like a 2000s game i like it the same way i like no fear whereas like no fear is like peak 90s and i'm like this is like peak 2000s poker play field it's got like lightning and like the money just raining down the outlanes and stuff it looks good it's pretty cool i have a soft spot for this era of sterns because getting into pinball was i got into pinball in the 2000s playing around portland so these games were new and i remember that there was a strong feeling of like all of these games are bad you shouldn't play them you should only play these old bally williams games and i remember playing them and having fun and being like what's wrong with it and like i get that you can be like yeah it's not as good looking as some of the older games and yeah maybe they're not quite as good but they are like this game in particular is loaded i mean it's you still get steve rich you still get chris granar on sound you get keith johnson doing a rule set like shit to do and i think this is one of those games that i would love to play one that's set up to my preference like i'd love to play this thing with some lightning flippers and like real rubber in a tight tilt and then see if i'm still complaining about it being easy. Yeah, yeah. It'd be fun to set up a little bit harder, maybe. Speaking of the Steve Ritchie thing, it is counterintuitive when you play this game, because it doesn't necessarily have the speed of what you associate Steve Ritchie with. One of the things that I think is holding it back in that respect is that when you shoot the ramps, there's a little post that pops up to stop the ball, and then it gives you a little animation on the DMD saying like, oh, here's the flop. Here's the card you got. And it really slows the game down. I believe that there's a setting that you can change to disable that post from stopping the ball. Interesting. So there's more flow when you hit the ramp. So it's like, boom. I've never played one set up that way, but I would love to play one. We got to get one of these at Wedge. Yeah, I still like it without that. But I think if you disable that post where it stops it every single time you hit a ramp, which really slows it down, I think this thing could be a screamer. Yeah, I mean, I love Steve Ritchie, so it's really hard for me, because even when I was playing Elvis, which was another game from this time, and it's a Steve Ritchie game, I was playing it, and I was like, this game's kind of fun. Yeah, like CSI? CSI, and that's a Pat Lawler game. Oh, no, I'm sorry, not CSI, 24. 24? I'm like, these games are fun. Like, is it his best work? Maybe not, but like, is it still fun to play? Yes. I feel like this really is like the dark era. It's just fell out of favor hard at the moment. And it's going to be like, like coming from like the car world, it's like nineties cars forever. We're just kind of like disposable cheap. No one really cared about them. And then suddenly the people that grew up with them, like now is going apeshit for all the nineties, you know, Japanese. It's like how you're always on the hunt for a nice NASCAR because it's from this era. You love that game. It's one, it's the game that got you into pinball. I'm not hunting too hard, but I do think this era of games will come back in a little bit. And we're all going to be like, these games are because they're fun. They they're fun. And they also have like the depth. If you like deep rules like the modern rule sets, the that stuff starts popping up in the 90s Bally Williams games like you can tell the modes, obviously. But the deep stuff comes in this era. Yeah. In the 2000s, Keith Johnson does it. I mean, he should get credit for that because he's the guy that sort of really made the rule sets deep like this. Him and Lyman Sheets and Keith, I think sort of better for better or worse, better for worse. obviously a lot of people love it and that's i i think there's like something to be said be like yeah this is like the budget buy i mean where else are you gonna get this combo of names it's true absolutely i also love the um the unobtainable wizard modes that keith johnson does because there's always something to shoot for on like yeah the rings i think that game will probably more than any other pinball machine i've never even gotten close to valinor like it's not even something that i think i could do if i didn't own the machine that's because it's not for us mortals you know what you need to try you should try learning a death save jeff it would really open that up man i tell you what like all right because then if it goes down the right out lane first of all you can't even train down the left out lane in that game at all yeah and then you can just kind of cheat the ball back into play and you play longer that's crazy you should check it out i'll look into that don't let anyone know about it you know it's it's a little bit of a gray area boy move yeah we're gonna see jeff he's gonna start wearing a leather jacket around and sunglasses inside you got a question ask the eight ball this one also has crazy insane wizard mode called the keifer invitational which i have never gotten to yeah so you can buy the game you'll have something to shoot for that you probably will never attain just like all keith johnson's yeah that's his thing so all right we're gonna get into the bad reviews here we're gonna alternate alex and i are gonna alternate we got a couple short ones to start off the top and then we got some longer kind of mini essays that people wrote about this game because it inspired them let's do it we'll start off with pinball jim he says one of the worst games ever made regardless of era merry mother of god that's it that's it no you gotta give me more to go off than that that's crazy the worst ever made regardless of era yeah we've been like we're grading it on a curve you have to it's a product of time this guy's like nope fuck it it's horrible i'm looking at the the top machines on pin sign right now the world poker juice at 216 do you want to know what 215 is what austin powers people think that austin powers is a better I don't trust any of these. That's a John Borg masterpiece.
    24:03
    If that's what people truly believe, I don't trust any rating on this website. It's crazy. People don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. This is a great time to tell people, if you love Austin Powers, send us an email to wetchatinfo at gmail.com. We'll get you on the show to defend Austin Powers. God, it sucks.
    24:22
    I played it. It's not good. All right. All right, so Pin Greggie says, repetitive and cheap looking i can't recommend it cheap looking that's subjective i think i'll concede that point honestly but repetitive i don't know all pinball is repetitive man that you all you do the same thing every single time you play the same machine you raise a good point that's very true it's all repetitive it's all repetitive like just what's the loop like is the gameplay loop fun i think it's fun on world poker tour also maybe he's just doing the two ball, multi-ball over and over and over again and not showing anything else. I've heard that some people do that.
    25:04
    I doubt Pin Greggie is making it to Kiefer Invitational. That's for sure. Doesn't sound like it. Okay, Jay Garg says, I do not like this game. Doesn't have a good feel to the overall gameplay. Would not play again. Son, there's no wrong way to consume alcohol. I just think that's wrong. I don't know.
    25:24
    It's so subjective. too right like doesn't have a feel good feel to the overall game that's like the most vague insult you'd be like i just don't like the gameplay and you're like what does that mean i don't think it's vague at all he says i do not like this game doesn't feel good would not play again that's very definitive that's very like nope it's basically just like nope which is fine you know what like i'm not trying to convince people that don't like it that they should Oh, you have to. That's why you're here. No, what I'm trying to do is, like, if people haven't played it or they've played it once or twice and they're like, whatever, this is an encouragement to go back and give it another shot is the only thing, right? If you think you've played it, it's not for you, that's okay. That's fine. But when Austin Powers and Stern Avengers is above it, like the old Stern Avengers is 202. Do you have any history of mental illness in your family? I have an uncle who does yoga. Oldster? Jesus Christ.
    26:25
    That's not Gomez's thing. I don't know. The consensus says it is. The consensus. Yeah, the people are saying it is. I mean, the mighty Oracle of Pinside says it in fact is. You're arguing with the Oracle, Jeff? Send all your hate mail. Send it all. All the Pinside people. Caucasian Kisnip, I'm looking for it. Give me your hate mail, man.
    26:45
    All right. The Goat Dan says, Take one of the worst art packages ever. I can't find anything redeeming about any of it. Slap on some sound and voice calls that sound like the people don't really care. Add in a playfield with a ton of drop targets, but nothing else interesting. The ace in the hole thing really isn't that interesting. And you get World Poker Tour. It isn't bad to play. It's just that there were a lot of other big drop target games to play earlier on that were just as much fun as this one is. besides that the randomness or seeming randomness of the poker hands impacting your score makes the game fun for casual play but not so fun for real play okay it's okay and i actually go out of my way to play it every once in a while but it's not the best game by a long shot what do you think about go dan i know more than you that's such a there's a lot there yeah you were asking for more clarity this guy gave you some more clarity this person actually says that they like the game this is actually kind of positive for casual play those other drop target games that are just as fun as this or something like it's like you're admitting that this game is fun right like yeah it sounds like he's ashamed that he kind of likes it you know what i mean like it's like a like it kind of fun but it not any good yeah but sometimes i go out of my way to play it He like don tell anybody I know but sometimes I do play it Yeah it like guilty pleasure
    28:10
    Well, it's fun for casual play. It's not for serious play. That's the other thing is that this person is, like, is overestimating their pinball ability and, like, well, maybe if you're not very good, this is fun. But if you're as good as I am, you wouldn't really enjoy this. Which is funny because, as we said, this is a Keith Johnson game. Keith Johnson is a great pinball player and was absolutely creating real depth of strategy in this game. So he's like, this is only a casual flip around whatever game. And you're like, whoosh, like right over his head, dude. Like the rules of this game. The reviewer themselves admit that they don't understand the rules. They're like, I don't understand how the poker hands work and how it impacts your score. It's like, I don't think it's random. I think it's just you don't understand what has happened. Now, I think Keith just put a random number generator in there. You just start hitting the ball and it just spits out a score at the end. Okay, 1984kid says, highly disappointing. I enjoy a clean play field, but world poker was a little too empty for its own good. I didn't get the rules, which also had a negative effect on the overall play. For a modern pin, I expect a lot more. No toys, just drop targets. Give me something to shoot at. Even the ramps are boring. I tried to get into this one, but it just didn't happen. I can't see anyone wanting to own this pinball after playing it. Yeah, it's too open. I think that's a strength of it, honestly. A lot of like modern games have too many like bash toys and like things cluttering it up to where it's like, yes, it's not it's not fun to shoot because there's too many things that are blocking the way. I enjoy it being open and just like tons of drop targets. But it says even the ramps are boring. No toys, Jeff. Yeah, where are the toys? Ace in the hole? Great toy. When I think about poker, I think about one thing, and that's toys. No, I think about busty babes. Don't you guys think about busty babes? Well, yeah, after you're playing World Poker Tour, that's what you got. There needs to be like a deck of cards that you shoot with a pinball with. You shoot a deck of cards, and then like... Because it's funny when that's like an insult hurled at something when it's based off like a movie or something, and you're like, yeah, okay, it should have had a pirate ship that sunk or whatever. like that makes sense but it's fucking world poker tour what toys what toys can you even imagine you hit a bank and it shuffles some cards like it like it's a car shuffler yeah you could be sick a spinner that's like a poker chip maybe that's even on the machine it might be actually okay i am lava says worst game i have played all year really what is the point cheap feel and look two thumbs down worst game that i've played all year i think you need to go play some more pinball buddy that's my interpretation there's a lot worse machines out there than this one yeah he hasn't played austin powers yet speaking of austin powers pin guy phil says stern had a solid run of real good pinballs and along says they had a solid run of real good pinballs and along came this game to break that up what were they thinking did anyone play this before they started making them did gary need a tax write-off i suppose you could do that now would everyone please back off and just let me cook in peace i love that concept that gary's like let's make this thing suck and then we'll lose a bunch of money on it and then we'll write it off i also love the theory like this guy coming into this with like stern's been on a heater they're putting out all the good games like 2006 austin powers 24 banger after banger and then they come out with this piece of shit i'd love to know when this review is written if that was yeah i don't know i don't know what games came out before this i'd be interested i think a lot of these reviews the way i'm reading them or the way they sound i think these were reviews that were written when the game was relatively new right yeah relatively new which is just kind of hilarious to think about they're all just like this thing sucks and you're like dude you were like two years away from them doing like world striker extreme and like nfl and just pure dog shit that like no one will defend on this show that sounds like a challenge hey nascar is good yeah it's pat lawler's best game his magnum opus all right jester 64 says game pauses too much to deal hands rules are complicated i didn't enjoy it too much but no others that love it i'm a poker fan too miss the mark i think is this is a legitimate review i agree i mean you mentioned it you're you were like hey if the ball didn't stop as much it'd be better and the rules are complicated they are those are both legitimate criticisms for sure the rules are like the dan flashes of pinball rules right like they're just really complicated patterns on their t-shirts Excuse me? Dan Files has got a new shirt in today that's $450. What? Because the pattern's so complicated, you idiot! Oh, it costs more because of the pattern. Yeah, and rightfully so! This one I'm wearing now, this is $150 out the door. And this is not that complicated. They have this one shirt that costs $1,000 because the pattern's so wild. I want that one so bad. Mike, we have to focus. I'm just not going to let Doug say that about Dan Flash, that the patterns aren't complicated. I never said that. You said they shouldn't jack up the prices. That means that the patterns aren't complicated, and they are, even on this one, which is bargain-bent. Okay, okay. Still not. That's not what Doug was saying. Well, he kind of is, though. That's how they value the shirt. The more the lines crisscross and the patterns overlap. Okay, okay. Because if you're saying they're not complicated, they are.
    34:01
    They are. yeah it's it you know what had to hurt because his name is jester and he says he's a poker fan and it's like they finally made the game for him and he's like guys it's too complicated and the ball stops too much i'm surprised we didn't hear that more on these reviews because steve ritchie is 100 known for like a ball is always moving you know like that's kind of like his trademark like if you say one thing about steve ritchie game it's flow balls moving when you play some of his games like this or like elvis where the ball does stop a lot more you're like huh like is this why i play a steve ritchie game so i'm surprised that it's not more prominent but i guess it's just a lot of people get focused on the art yeah i mean it's yeah i will like we i copped to it up front the art is an easy target to go after right like that translates not good it's not it's not good maybe it is maybe some people like it i don't know get there maybe i'm like maybe in another 10 years i'll be like i think sick i'll have that have that translate on a t-shirt yeah it's that too yeah okay uh next one is from sunterpin he says world poker tour has to be one of the worst games i have ever played if you don't like or know poker then you can forget about liking hardly anything on this game i know the general rules to basic poker but this game was ridiculously hard to grasp how to actually collect cards etc the leds mounted below the playfield are ugly and the playfield itself is way way too open the only thing i liked about this game is the right and left loop shots which give you a rewarding chip stacking sound this is the only reason i gave this game a seven for audio the upper playfield was okay overall not a top game in my opinion and certainly one of stern's newest game failures damn what did they say they said something early on about if you're not a poker player don't expect to grasp it like somehow if you like poker you're gonna understand the rules to this pinball machine like it's and that's not true because jester says i'm a poker fan and he doesn't like it at all getting conflicting information out of these inside reviews that's like saying like i'm a big fan of godzilla but i can't understand the rules to this pinball machine at all like what is there's no relationship like i've seen all of the rules and the theme yeah that's true that's true you see all the lord of the rings machines that doesn't mean you know how the multi balls work like you're like no no i need the riders of rohan i need to collect all the gifts of the elves it's just like yeah i'd love that connection if you like the theme you should inherently know the rules that is funny all right baloo says this pinball isn't extremely bad but it's got that cheap stern feel to it we all know that feel right guys the art is pretty bad especially on the back glass and the gameplay isn't all that appealing the left ramp is near impossible to shoot up and i find that the ball coming off one of the ramps and going straight down the middle a lot along with a lack of targets and objectives there's no lack of targets on this game what the fuck i found myself shooting the ace in the hole multi-ball over and over again and it got boring the drop target you write this alex and the drop targets don't like to come up i played this game in an arcade, and at least six or seven targets were gone. Overall, the machine is playable, but it's pretty bad. There's so many better pinball machines out there. Chalk up another mediocre pinball machine for Stern. Skill issue. I think he said he's going to hit the left ramp. I mean, that's on you. That's not the machine's fault. This sounds like the game was broken. Yeah, seven drop targets were gone. Yeah, seven drop targets. That's almost half of the drop targets. And he also said that one of the balls comes off the ramp and goes straight down the middle. You're like, it sounds like this game was, like, broken in multiple ways. The targets weren't working. Like, damn, it's crazy that you'd write, like, such a stringent review. Chalk up another mediocre one for Stern, boys. I would never write a review if seven drop targets were broken on the machine that I played. That's insane. It's got that cheap Stern feel. What can I say? Seven drop targets are missing straight out of the factory, man. Yeah.
    38:17
    Classic Stern. There's cutting all these corners, man. Okay, Gamera, good name. That's a good Kaiju name, you know? He's probably waiting for his Gamera pin to come out. He says, I can't believe you can have this many drop targets and produce a game this bad. I do not like the game at all. My rating is more kind than my true opinion. He rated it a 5.8. I don't usually include the overall score ratings, but he included a 5.8, and then he says, my rating's more kind than my true opinion. So he thinks it's significantly worse than his 5.8. Why would you rate it higher than you think it is? That's so strange to me. The sound was probably inflating his number because he probably liked that cool chip stacking sound. He might also be one of the guys that really likes the art package.
    39:05
    Maybe he played one with the alternate sexy translates, and he's like, I like this translate. But it is, you know, I do like that. I can't believe you can have this many drop targets produce a game this bad. I like how many people are like, I don't like this game at all. What are the worst games ever made? Like, we are getting real heat on these reviews. And if you listen to the show and you listen to our Die on the Hills, like, sometimes it's more casual. And some games create, like, a fiery, visceral hatred towards them. Yeah. And this seems like one of them. It's weird that it has that. Because I'm like, it's not offensively anything except for ugly. But, like, past that, it's not like it's, like, super hard or something. because a lot of the time people are like, I fucking hate this game. And you're like, yeah, it's a hard game and you're a shit player, so you probably won't like it. Totally. But like this, it's like people are just mad as hell because they don't understand what the rules are. Like, I don't know. They just don't like it. It's wild. All right. Pinky in the Brain says, I like drop targets. This was a little overboard.
    40:05
    Looks like they forgot any kind of artwork in the upper play field. Just a barren wasteland. Play field was way too open for my taste. And I just didn't care for this game. Normally, if given a choice between doing something and nothing, I'd choose to do nothing. But I will do something if it helps someone else do nothing. I'd work all night if it meant nothing got done. It is funny, I'm not sure why they did this. The upper playfield is clear, so I don't... Yes, you can appreciate the cool pops. There's nothing to see under, yeah, there's like pop bumpers under it that you can't even see anyway, because after like six months on location the upper playfield is just like scuffed to hell yeah it's got to hell you can't see anything it's dirty and yeah steve just loves putting fucking plexi upper playfields on shit and i'm like this has one this has one well that's the era sort of rage premium and le's are see-through oh yeah i don't play those i play the pro dude the pro is one of the best game sterns ever made yeah because it doesn't have the plexi upper playfield what else did this doesn't bride have a plexiglass kind of side playfield too like you know actually you can see through it yeah yeah yeah yeah flipping a ball on it just it feels wrong it needs to be wood it needs to be wood dude it needs to be real ply balsa wood you could at least use mahogany be real plot okay whisper said not for me it might appeal to the casino type but i really thought it sucked the casino you know you know the type colonel cavern says how can you have a fun with a rule set too difficult to understand i pass and i'll have the number eight that's a party platter it serves 12 people i know what i'm about son this is just people it was not appreciated at its time people were reviewing this before godzilla came out now godzilla is the number one rated pinball machine of all time And they like oh this is so good It so fun Well you wouldn fucking love this if you go back in time to when this was released You would be like it so deep It so complicated There's so much to learn. You'll never get sick of this one at home. It's so deep. Yeah, you'll never make it to Kiefer Invitational. It's like fucking Marty McFly shit, man. They weren't ready for it, but their kids are going to love this. Chuck! Chuck! It's Marvin! Your cousin, Marvin Barry! You know that new sound you've been looking for? Well, listen to this.
    42:36
    I got that new sound you've been looking for. It's called World Poker Tour. I got those new drops you've been looking for.
    42:46
    Okay, Pinballthusiast says, This game suffers because of placement of shots way at the top of the playfield. It could have been executed more successfully, but maybe the design was rushed. It's surprising to see this as a Steve Ritchie pen because the flow suffers from the playfield layout. The less I know about other people's affairs, the happier I am. I'm not interested in caring about people. I once worked with a guy for three years and never learned his name. Best friend I ever had.
    43:16
    We still never talk sometimes. Again, this one, it's hard to disagree with in many respects. I would say those are legit criticisms, but maybe adjust some settings on it so that the ramps don't stop the ball every time you hit them. And maybe it was rushed. You know, who knows? Mid-2000s, they were making a bunch of money. This was a hard time. Like, Stern really survived when nobody thought they would. And nobody thought pinball would survive. I mean, we'll do a whole episode on that era at some point, because I find it super interesting. And I think that people shit on these games, and I think a lot of it's, like, a little bit unfair. But that'll be for another episode. Yeah, I'd be interested to hear that. Berserk says, First impressions of this game were that it was very slow. Maybe it was just the one I played. Also, this is one ugly pin. Especially the back glass.
    44:08
    I feel so bad for the artists on this, dude. We're just getting dogged. When people get too chummy with me, I like to call them by the wrong name to let them know I don't really care about them. I thought the addition of the display on the playfield was nice. I guess if you like a lot of drop targets, this game may be for you. But it just reminded me of a late 70s pin, just without the jungle or fantasy theme. And really, how can you base a pin theme on World Poker Tours Beyond Me? Either way, if you dislike the theme on this one, stay away. That is so funny. How could you do a World Poker Tour theme? There's been like 700 pinball machines that are poker themed. Exactly. It's so funny. How could you make a pinball machine on poker? so funny like it's a novel idea like that they only tried once and it was this abject failure and they never did it again the pinball industry was built on the back of poker games yeah you're like this is the most like logical one for our pinball theme feels like at least it was that for a long time yep okay we got a couple more reviews here me there's so many there's so many it's crazy and also i think before we started like we had to cut some out there was like two there's too many i'm telling you like there this game is hated sometimes on these die in the hills people go what do you mean i love that game they agree with like the die in the hill person being like no that game is great when are you guys gonna do some bad games when you read this game you're like yeah that's a bad game like hopefully we find some fans you know i want to go play this thing now no i do too okay every time we do this i just want to play these games i know it's the whole point of the episodes yeah it is the whole point just like give it another shot about it We're like, yeah, okay. Okay, Miaz says, tried it several times on location recently, and this may honestly be the saddest machine I've ever played. First, the back glass is terrible. Did nobody at Stern say before they manufactured it, wait a minute, isn't there something wrong with the girl's head and neck?
    46:04
    Looks like it was all right to them, as she was also depicted, as is, on the cabinet. Not fair to this great-looking lady, according to the flyer. I'm a simple man. I like pretty dark-haired women and breakfast food. Then, the playfield. Everything feels cheap and flimsy, and you can't help but think that the main priority when designing this machine was to keep the cost as low as possible. It makes me sad that such an incredible designer as Steve Ritchie can't use all his talent and imagination.
    46:31
    I then played it, and the cheap feel of the machine ruined the experience. I also find that the display showing your hand on the playfield was distracting and hard to read at a glance. Is that a club? A spade? Not sure. Oops, lost the ball. If any of you need anything at all, too bad. Deal with your problems yourselves like adults. I'm sure the rule set is deep and interesting, but I didn't have enough fun to keep playing. Kept my coins for another pinball. Just quite a shame, as I love both pinball and poker. But the mix wasn't as tasty as I expected.
    47:07
    I'm like, that was a good... Looking back at this, it's hard for you because you can't read the whole thing back as a long one. But the art critique, art critique valid. Playfield, though. Everything, it looks like it was trying to keep cost as low as possible. There's no way, dude. This is an expensive machine to make. This is an incredibly expensive game to make. It's so funny that they're like, they're holding back Steve Ritchie. Yeah, I know. Let Steve lose. Let him make a good game. It's like he was held hostage. They're like, all right, Steve, you're locked in a room. The only way out is to design this machine in the worst way possible. 36 drops, and every shot has to stop the ball. They're acting like it's fucking Rogue One, where they're forcing the guy to build the Death Star, and he's like, okay, but I'm going to put a critical failure in there to get revenge. And you're like, no, Steve just made a game that he thought was fun. It is kind of fun. It's not for everybody. Dude, it's clearly not for everybody. It's not for me. It wasn't as tasty as I was expecting it to be. Not as tasty. That's a good line. Yeah, we're bringing that back. That's a hot bar, dude. Last review. Asaki Freak says, wow, just wow. The playfield design and digital card readout is pretty cool, and the DMD animations are good, but nothing can redeem the back glass art. If I let my dog tear up the keyboard while I'm running Photoshop, the results might look a little bit better. Gameplay-wise, not as horrendous, but still pretty bad. Tight shots make good hands, and shots to the center are almost always straight down the middle. The card display, while cool, makes the playfield home to a giant Firepower S void. Shrinking the display even just a little would allow for a better placement of the few toys there are. A huge failure, keeping with the recent stern tradition of emptying their trash onto the assembly line and somehow, through ways inconceivable by man, forming it into a pinball machine that actually requires real money. Truthfully, I barely registered his attack. He's incredibly frail and his arms are weak. And when I punched him, he dropped so quickly, I thought he was diving towards the ground. I regret nothing. The end. Considering this machine was placed next to the far superior Pirates of the Caribbean, a brilliant exception, a diamond in the stern rough, it should be a no-brainer as to which one I preferred. If you see this one, keep walking. Wow. putting the trash on the assembly line and passing it off as a pinball machine. It's formed into a pinball machine that requires real money. That's a great review. Great review for the show. I love that. I like that. Pirates got a little bit of gas in there, though. Yeah, Pirates is sick. He's like, yeah, Pirates is really good. Pirates rips, dude. People forget that Stern Pirates was good, dude. You want to talk ugly games? I don't forget. The playfield of that game? The back glass looks fine, but the playfield of Pirates is very ugly. Like, all of the plastic walls and just the art on the playfield itself, it's all... That game is pretty fun. The Kraken and the ship is amazing, dude. That's one of the coolest mechs I've ever bought. Is it good if you have to build a barrier around it and compromise the entire look of the game? What are you talking about? Don't they always have that big airball protector, or is that an aftermarket thing? No, I don't know. I've always... I play... I used to play Stern Pirates. Like, this game, like this guy was saying, is like... This was one of the... The diamond and the stern rope. I don't know if it's a, like, I liked a lot of the other games, too. But, like, Pirates was, like, it was, I think, at the time, their best-selling game. Yeah, that makes sense. I've heard that multiple times. You see them all over. I love that game. It's fun, man. It plays long. It's because it's Dennis Nordman. But it is fucking fun, and that Kraken and shit mech that rocks back and forth is sick. It's crazy. And the treasure chest opens up, and that's a sculpt, and, like, you get the spinning Tortuga disc with the ship back there, and, like, it's a Blythe Sullivan game. A recycled centrifuge from the superior CSI. Oh, I think it's like a version of the Mixmaster, too. Oh, shit, yeah, you're right. Dr. Dude, right? Dennis did it first. What a great way to end this episode, man. Yeah. I also like, they said, like, shooting it up the center leads to a lot of center drains or something like that. And I was like, yeah, don't do that. I don't know why. I'll complain about the game. The machines are designed to drain the pinball in some respect, so don't shoot shots that are dangerous. They have to end at some point. It has to end. No, they shouldn't. Yeah, they shouldn't be complicated. I shouldn't have to know how to play poker to play this game. You know what? Like we mentioned earlier on the show, our friend Greg Dunlap, which we all know and we've had on the show before. Yeah, everybody knows. He's a household pinball name. He mentioned when we talked to him, he was like, you know, like the average skill level of pinball players now is just so much higher than it used to be, like in the 90s and definitely in the 2000s. And I think that's kind of what we're seeing with this, whereas I don't know anyone that's played this game really that would say this is a difficult game. Like it's not a difficult, short, ball-busting game, right? But at the time, this guy was clearly like, it's too hard. Yeah, you're like, I'm getting punished for shooting the thing in the middle of the playfield. And you're like, like Jeff said, it's like, you just don't do that, man. Like, that's not a valid complaint. Yeah. I mean, I will say, I mean, this is not, this is a game that benefits from like watching a Bowen tutorial or like reading a little bit of the rule sheet. And, you know, it's like some games you just step up, shoot the flashing shots and you have a decent game, right? Like this probably doesn't fall into that necessarily. Yeah, the Keith Johnson games rarely reward you for playing them blindly. Yeah. You kind of need to have a strat. I think Lord of the Rings is the best, though, at it. Because you can just kind of slap that game around. And you kind of get points. But the other ones, like Simpsons, dude, if you don't know what you're doing on Simpsons, you're just going to waste your energy. You're going to waste your energy playing that game anyway. Oh, okay. You should have the opposite of this guy on the hill, like critically acclaimed people love this machine and I hate it. No, it's too easy. We're a positive show. We're the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. We're positive. I guess that's me. Yeah, we don't want to tear down anybody's work. It's already hard enough when we have to concede that the art on World Poker Tour isn't very pretty. Yeah, we have to be like, you know, it's not good. It doesn't mean that, you know, Mark Rude is a bad guy or a bad artist. I'm sure he did other stuff. Like you said at the top. probably we didn't know what he had to go through licensing bullshit will kill art there's a lot of valid reasons it could be maybe he's really really bad and that's why we never saw him again but we don't know that yeah i don't think it's fair to talk about things that we don't know much about but when i thank you once again jeff for joining us on the show we appreciate you coming on the show defending world poker tour for anyone out there listening go out and play a world poker tour use the pinball map and try to find one near you if you find one go out and play it and make up your own mind. I think Jeff's advice to look at a tutorial before you play it, I think treat it more like a modern game because it's coded more like a modern game. So treat it as such. Give it that kind of respect going into it. Know what you're doing and then you'll probably have a better time playing it. I think that's good advice. Yep. If you own a World Poker Tour, please get a good looking Translight made based off of Microsoft Solitaire. I think we all want to see that now. I'd love to see that happen. And I'm probably not going to own one of these in the near future. Maybe. I'm going to go play one now for sure. Definitely going to go play one again. But, yeah, go out and play pinball on location. Even if it's not a World Poker Tour, you don't have one near you, go support your local operators, play pinball on location, have a good time. Yeah, go play a mid-2000s turn. Yeah. Go play any mid-2000s. If you don't have this one, go play Austin Powers. Yeah. And if you love it, come on the show and defend it. It's even better than this game. It's 215, baby. It is. Yep. Before we end, we'll just say that Alex and I started a coffee account, ko-fi.com slash Wedgehead Podcast. What we're doing there is if you like the show and you reached out and you wanted to support us, it's set up so you can give us a one-time donation or set up a monthly contribution. Appreciate the show. You want to reach out and help us. We're trying to fundraise. We have a lot of friends on the East Coast that want us to go to Pentastic, and we're trying to fundraise to get out there. Yeah, you know, pay for a hotel and flights to go to Boston. We'll hang out with y'all. That would be fantastic and make podcast episodes about that, I suppose. Maybe. Yeah, play a lot of games. Play a lot of fun Die on the Hill games. Yeah, we'll probably play a World Poker Tour out there. Yeah, so until next time, good luck. Don't suck. You got to know when to hold, when to hold. Know when to fold up.
    55:45
    Know when to walk away. And know when to run. You never count your money. When you're sitting at the table There'll be time enough for counting When the dealing's done Oh my God, you are such a sore loser. I'm not a sore loser. It's just that I prefer to win, and when I don't, I get furious. Employee!