Yeah, but hell, even with that, Khan usually is over in two seconds unless you can really make your shot. So it's a tough game for sure. It's a great game. I don't think it's underrated anymore, because everyone certainly has found out that Shadow is spectacular. And speaking of Brian Eddy games, you have an LE of one of Brian Eddy's latest in Stranger Things. In fact, that's what we played. I played Guardians, and you played Stranger Things. Again, we used the median of Pindigo, and you are really loving your Stranger Things. I know you've made a few alterations to it, but you certainly can't be any happier. Yeah, it's been great. It definitely stumbled out of the gate a little bit. I got to play a pro right when it first came out, and I was trying to just get a feel for it because it is my dream theme. So I had a pro at the house just on loan for about a week. I got a feel for it. I kind of liked the bones it had. It was very early on basic code, but I did really kind of like the structure of the code. It was fairly simplistic, like Attack from Mars, and I know that Brian Eddy was trying to do a little bit of a homage to Attack from Mars with this, with the layout and some of the features in it. But it did kind of grab me a little bit, so then I was like, okay, great. I think I'm going to take the plunge. So I took the plunge in my first LE ever and went with it. Now, the six months following that were pretty difficult getting the game dialed in. It took a very long time to get the magnet lock working and the Demogorgon to be able to be consistently hit in the mouth and things like that. But I was able to finally get it, and it's been fantastic. And they did a great job updating the code, and it's really come a long way. Now, if you're a huge Keith Elwin fan with those crazy rule sets and just super deep code for really competitive players and top-level players, It might not keep your interest as long, but it's definitely a good game to have in a lineup, a larger lineup maybe, or even a smaller lineup, I guess. But I love my Game of Thrones. It's super complex, and it's one of my favorites that I'll never sell. But Stranger Things is a great mix-up to that for sure. I don't think code's ever been a question for Stranger Things. It just keeps getting better and better, and kudos to the Stern staff for doing that because that's been one of the bright spots about Stranger Things. But you said, I know you told me on the stream, you took apart your Demi Gorgon, and you said you had to get it dialed in. What did you do? So there's two issues with the Demogorgon that people will have. The ball either hits too low, so it'll hit below the mouth, or in my case, it was hitting too high. So in my case what really fixed it was there are these two long screws that go through the sides of the Demogorgon that allow it to sway when the ball hits it so i loosened those up quite a bit so it had a little bit more give to it and then i also put some washers underneath the mounting screws that mounted to the playfield to kind of tilt it forward a little bit more and that did the trick now that took me a couple times of getting it apart of trying different things but finally got it and now it's good to go now it seems to be the most common issue is it hits low and what people are doing is they just take it apart and there's a couple spacers that actually hold the demogorgon up a little bit they just take those out and either replace them with real small ones or just take them out all together effectively just lowering the entire mechanism and then it's totally fine so that one wasn't nearly as bad as getting the magnet lock working but eventually got it with the help of stern and just a whole bunch of trial and error so so you're talking about the left ramp shot the magnet lock right yeah it's it needs a lot of power from the flipper and ball speed to get up that extra little diverter to the magnet so and a lot of things come into play where the ramp sits there's a cover on the ramp that needs to be adjusted and stern's come out with a new adjustable ramp cover to make that easier but like essentially the the flipper power and the ball speed needs to be perfect in order for it to go up there consistently and they just took a whole bunch of trial and error because i was an early adopter you know and just working with some other early owners we were able to kind of come up with a way to dial it in but but yeah like i said i got it going good. So I was glad I was able to because I was really frustrating for a while, but everything works great now. So it's just fun time with playing it. What could be annoying about something like that not working too is really what we're talking about is something that's been created to be cosmetically appealing because you could avoid having that magnet lock and still have a lock feature on that left ramp, but they decided to go up against the wall and have that magnet lock. And I think of recent Stern games that have done things really to have that cosmetic appeal that aren't necessarily needed. But again, it's something for the pinball player. Jurassic Park on the premium and the LE. Do you really need the T-Rex head to move left and right? No. But is it cool? Absolutely. And that's something unique for the owners and the players. I think of Kiss and when you would shoot the love gun shot on the premium and LEs and it would float across the backboard, which again is just cosmetic. Is it really needed? I mean, it's not exactly like the usefulness of something like Missed Multiball, which is kind of similar, too. I mean, that's on the playfield. You can shoot that. You're just watching the love gun go across right to left. But as someone who owns Stranger Things and has this cosmetic feature in the magnet lock, does that add value to your game? Is that important to you? Well, for me, it adds importance because, one, they do have a little bit of a code difference with the magnet lock if it's working properly. If you disable it or play a pro, when you're in telekinesis multiball and you have a super jackpot lit, you can hit the left ramp first and multiply the super jackpot. Now, on a pro, you can only hit the left ramp once, and it'll be worth a 2x super jackpot. The saucer on the left. Now, on a premium or an LE, if your magnet lock is working and you can get the balls to physically lock to the magnet on the back wall, you can have up to a 3x super jackpot. So you put one ball on the wall, then it's worth 2x, and then you have about 20 seconds to put another one up there, and it'll be worth 3x. So that was the main drive for me to get it working. Yeah, a lot of people just gave up on it and disabled it. Sure, the game pretty much operates the same way with that disabled, but I knew that there was that extra tiny little bit of code in there. And again, I paid all this money for this game. I want it to work. If I just gave up on it, I'd probably just sell it. So that little bit of extra code and just the drive to get my game working, I guess, was my OCD. I don't know. But I just didn't give up, and I'm glad I didn't because I finally got it. Well, there you go. Another example of really good code on Stranger Things, in this case with the LE. Now, that's something that's got a lot of fun features. We talked about the UV kit and how spectacular that is, the projector, all those fun things. But you, Eric, are a massive fan of older games without all the bells and whistles. And I really appreciate that because I also love the older games. What is it that draws you to these vintage pinball machines? Well, I think it all started when I was younger. My uncle's a collector. He lives in the Cleveland area. So as you know, that's a big hotspot for collectors. I would go there growing up and he had a very eclectic collection at one point. I think he had around 30 machines at home, everything from manual loader, EMs, all the way up to, I think, the last time I was going over there consistently. I want to say Star Trek Next Gen was probably a pretty new game. So always going there and having that experience with all those different games, I always had an appreciation for him. And then when I became very ensconced in the hobby myself, started competing, things like that, Pinberg was just the greatest thing to me ever. and I just love the fact that it forces you to be good at everything in order to win that tournament. Ever since I experienced that, I wanted that to be how all my tournaments were, and I wanted to be good at every type of game. And when you start to go down that road of those older games, it's just good and bad, I guess, bad on your wallet and your space in your house because you're going to want a lot more games now. But just the rules and the artwork and just kind of this five minutes to learn, lifetime to master type games. You know, I can bring friends over that don't care about pinball at all, but I can walk them over to Grand Prix, tell them two things, and now they're on the same level as me. And now we're just, who's got the more skill to do the thing, you know? And if I try to do that with them on Game of Thrones, their eyes would just glaze over in the first five minutes. So it's nice having these simpler games to just kind of jump on with either hardcore competitive people that appreciate them as well or just casuals that can learn them quickly. You mentioned Pinberg, and there's a million reasons why I'm going to miss Pinberg and the PAPA organization, but it was a chance to play these older games and really compete against them because I think it is important. I think the Pinberg Championship was the true championship of great pinball players' skill set because you had to learn everything and the subtle nudges of older machines, the ability to shoot shots, the accuracy that was needed as opposed to the rules knowledge, which is also just as important. But I'm just saying Pinberg gave you the whole gamut of you have to be good at all these different skills. And I think we're going to miss that, especially with Papa. and it's one of the things that discourages me from big tournaments, like even the Stern Pro Circuit Finals too, which is all new games. And I get that because it is Stern putting up these games, putting up a wonderful new in-box machine for the winner and all the prize money. So I get that. If I was in Stern's shoes, I'd do the exact same thing. It's just unfortunate that there isn't the way it was. I'm not trying to sound like an old fart who's wishing for the ways of the past, But, you know, the Stern Pro Circuit events that I participated in had all the new modern games, but it also had those classic Stern games or Data East games. And I think we're going to miss that now. But that's the good thing about some tournaments. You know, we see classic events and even Indisc has kind of a mix of new and older games in their Open Championship. And I'm glad that there's still some of these events that have a mix of these older and newer games. Yeah, I totally agree. I think the newer Stern circuit finals, at least the first one they did, they did have classic Sterns splashed in, but maybe the most recent one they did away with that. Yeah, the next one that they do will be only modern Sterns. Okay, gotcha. It also like the Chicago Expo which is a great event I mean if you haven been to Chicago Expo you have to go But that flip out tournament is all new and very new games I mean even the last one had Elvira had Star Wars pin in it Games people hadn even really played before And those were in the championships there. And there's nothing wrong with that because they also had a classics tournament. So it wasn't just, you know, there was a variety if you wanted a little bit. So I like that there's a good mix of those things. But Pinberg, I mean, that was one of a kind that I don't know if we'll ever see again. Yeah, I agree. I think there's going to be a lot of people that try to at least emulate that as much as they can. You're obviously not many people are going to be able to pull off that type of size competitors. But I think if tournament directors out there that are getting into it or have been doing it for a while, if you can sprinkle in these games from all eras, I think it just really makes the experience better, you know, forces the stern experts to compete on other games and get good at those. and, you know, it just really develops a player skill level, in my opinion, if you just are able to really compete at a high level on any game you step up to. I mean, look at Keith Elwin, for example. I mean, it doesn't matter what game you put in front of him. It's just extremely impressive what he can do on any game. It could be some, what was it, the last Pinnberg, that random EM football game. Like, it was amazing watching him pull off some of these flipper tricks on this old EM that I'd never even seen before. And so it's just really impressive to see someone that can go from any game and just dominate. So I stress to any tournament director out there, really try and expand the eras that you use. There's really not – you can make any game, at least in my experience, suitable for a tournament. There's not many that you can't make okay. I mean, some, sure, but really try to expand that reach you're doing there with the games you select for tournaments. I hear a lot of maybe newer players say that some of the older games have a lot of luck in them. Certainly there's luck in all of pinball. No question about it. When you get that in lane you need or some massive save or a shot that hits a pop bumper and just keeps going up and down and you're getting rewarded that way. Sure, there's luck there for sure. But it was Josh Sharp who said to me and he was correct in saying, Okay, yeah, there's luck in it, but you're telling me if you take someone like Keith Elwin or any one of these great players and give them 10, 20, 100 games on that EM, you're telling me they would come ahead more times than not? Again, it's using their skill set too. So, yes, there's luck on a certain ball. And one thing I like about EMs too is because there are five balls, you know, a house ball isn't as punishing as something on a three-ball game. You can recover. Yeah, so that's why a lot of people prefer to play, say, Grand Prix or Jungle Queen as opposed to Stars, because Stars is just as brutal, just as hard as any EM out there, but you get two less balls to play that. And I've since kind of gotten away from, on my specific stars, using it for three ball. I haven't used it in a tournament yet on five ball, but I'm going to start because just the sheer brutality of that game and how short the game times are for a four-player group, I just don't think it's necessary to have a game take that short amount of time when it's just as hard as an EM. You can be just as unlucky with some house balls on that. So I think that's another thing that people can do. Don't be hamstrung by the, oh, well, it's solid state or it's EM. If a game is playing way too hard, do something about it so that players aren't getting discouraged from how difficult it is. But going back to the EMs being too much luck, like you talked about before, plunging is so much more important on EMs than I really think anything. If you're just thinking that you're getting house balls left and right, well, something happened before that. Plunge better. Right, exactly. Like, plunge purposefully, as my friend Stu would say. You know, if this lane up top led to your demise, plunge to a different lane up top and make sure you don't touch that other one or do some better nudging before it comes down to the flippers. Like, there's a lot you can do, and so many games are so important on where the ball goes on the plunge, if they're older, that you really need to concentrate on that. If you only play newer games, the plunge is insignificant almost every single time. So it just kind of changes up how you think, which is another reason why to gravitate towards those. You're telling me on Jungle Queen or Jungle Princess, whatever version you're playing, hitting that B lane isn't important? That is extremely important. It's all that matters on that game. It's all that matters. If you can plunge that B five times out of five every single time, you will win 75% of the time. Like, it's just that important. I mean, unless you get extremely lucky with, like you said before, a pop bumper shooting back up through there, it's very unlikely that happens. So you better get that plunged out in because if you get to a certain level, everybody's going to be able to do that. And if you can't, you're going to lose. It's not an EM, but it's certainly an older game. Kiss Valley, you better hit that middle lane at the top. There are five. If you hit the middle one, you're going to progress a lot faster than other people. Is that another one where that's the only way to get it is by going through it? It spells kiss. Okay. So it lights your spinner. Okay. Nice. So I have a game that was originally an EM, but then they also made a solid state of it too. And you were talking about making your stars into a five ball game if you did it in a tournament, because there are so many house balls. Well, a lot of solid state games are three ball games. This one is a five ball game, and I think it's absolutely important. Again, it was an original EM game that they made a solid state. It's Joker poker. And because of the code in that game, I think it is essential to make that a five ball game, even if it is a solid state. So I remember someone telling me about this. It's something with the bonus and what cards are lit. If it's five ball instead of three, I can't remember what changes. On a five ball solid state Joker poker, your first target to hit is the one single 10 stand up on the left hand side. Because if you hit that, then your bonus is 5X. And on the second ball, it's the two jacks, then the three queens, then the four kings, then the five aces. So that's the great thing about that is you have certain targets on each ball to get. I know you have a Royal Flush, and you and I were talking about maybe getting a Joker Poker. It's a way better game. You'll enjoy it. But Royal Flush is fun, too. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, Royal Flush is great because it's one of the only EMs I've played where it has these kind of like layered rules. I like the increasing value of the drop targets depending on how many Jokers you collect before you start hitting them down. That's very challenging and super satisfying if you can collect all of them before you start hitting down your drop targets. So, yeah, that's what's kept it around for me. I know it will eventually leave, but yeah, Joker Poker would definitely be one of the ones that I would want to replace it with because I would want it to be another Gottlieb, so I was trying to keep some Gottliebs in the back of my mind, and that's definitely one of them. It's something about those card games. I mean, pinball machines certainly are very attracted to pool games. There are some different sporting games, but card games, there are a lot of them, and the one I would love to get is Jack's Open. Yeah, I think I played. Is there an EM and solid state version of that too? Yes. I played the solid state version. Okay. Yeah, I think I played the South State version at that Mystic Crew in New Orleans. There's like a little pizza joint that they had some games in. And yeah, there's a Jack's Open there, Jack's Open there. But I only played it a couple of times. But yeah, it seems like a solid choice. You know, here we are coming up to a year in this pandemic, but we're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. We're seeing a lot of vaccinations in the States. They're talking about everyone being vaccinated, or certainly 70 to 85% by the end of June in Canada at September, which I think is going to be good for someone like you who runs an amazing tournament in Pinsonati, which takes place in December. Got to be looking forward to that because I'm looking forward to that because that might be one of the first ones I get to. Yeah Jeff I super excited We obviously had to cancel last year The hotel was fantastic with us They let us just move our reservation all the money we had into it to this year So it was very nice of them to do that So we been loyal to them because of that So first weekend in December this year 2021 it a full go right now And I agree with you I think we be in a pretty good spot by June July to be able to really ramp up getting the hype up there and getting everybody excited and get back to hanging out and playing some pinball by the end of the year of the year. So for those that have never been to Cincinnati, what can they expect at this event? So Cincinnati is a smaller show. I'd call it a player's show, meaning if you just like to play pinball all weekend and have a good time with your friends, this is a fantastic show for that. It's about 10,000 square feet, give or take, in the show floor. We'll have about 150 games on free play with some vendors there. We have multiple distributors that come. Flippin' Out does a big display. We usually have American Pinball Com. Spooky Pinball's been there before. So we try to get some of the manufacturers there. We get some big distributors to do those show game specials, which I know everybody likes. You can save a little bit on your game and go pick it up in person. So it should be a good spread. The main change this year will be that the tournament will be moving outside of the main show area to a specific tournament area, if you will, so that we just had some confusion on people being able to play the tournament games and when and all that kind of good stuff. So we're going to have a separate tournament area outside of the shows to kind of alleviate that and then also have more room inside to put some more free play games in there. So, yeah, it's a smaller show, but we don't do much in the way of seminars and things like that. But we kind of more focus on good, fun tournaments and just a show full of games that are all in great shape and are working all weekend. So we have a fantastic group of collectors that keep the games running all weekend. And we kind of create our own army of techs that kind of help each other throughout the whole weekend. You're selling yourself short because I know it grew from year one to year two. And it sounds like a lot of fun. And again, being that first week in December, that's going to help a lot of people as we kind of wind down this pandemic. So looking forward to Cincinnati. I know that being just outside of Cincinnati for yourself, what are you, 20 miles away? Yeah, about. Yeah, I'm in Independence, Kentucky, so about 20 minutes south of downtown Cincinnati. And then, Pinsonati is actually in Eastgate, which is about 20 minutes east of downtown. Is Cincinnati going to be able to recover after losing Trevor Bauer? I think that's just the one thing I want to know. Now that he's gone to the Dodgers for $40 million a year. Ridiculous. Well, since you know that, I'm sure you're somewhat of a baseball fan and follow things. And the Reds' issue last year was not pitching. Trevor Bauer didn't pitch every day. They had amazing pitching all season. So losing one of those guys I think will not be nearly as important as improving their offense, which scored zero runs. Zero runs in the playoffs. Something in the low 200s of batting average. It was pretty bad. So I just hope that they can, that was a fluke, and they can improve on that because they haven't done much in the way of off-season acquisitions. So we'll see. My Canadian boy, Joey Votto, you've got to start swinging that bat. I mean, stop milking the walks. Get on base. Do something. Drive in some runs. Yeah, sometimes you'd like to see a guy like Joey kind of put the team on his shoulders, but it doesn't seem like he's ever been that way. He just goes about his business. And I do hope that they institute the DH for both leagues so that if the Reds can do DH forever, I mean, Joey, I feel like, could play until he's 90.