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The Great British Pinball Podcast Episode 2

The Great British Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 35m·analyzed·Aug 21, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

UK pinball hosts discuss new acquisitions, Stern lighting upgrades, and LED mod solutions for classic machines.

Summary

Scott Rundell and Neil McCray discuss their recent pinball acquisitions and activities, including Neil's restoration of James Bond 007 LE and preparation for UK Pinfest. They cover Stern's Expression Lighting system across multiple games, debate originality vs. restoration aesthetics, and provide an in-depth spotlight on LED modifications (LED OCD, GI OCD, and Stumbler's aftermarket boards) as solutions to ghosting issues in classic games. They also discuss the mod community, pricing trends, and upcoming events.

Key Claims

  • Expression Lighting is now on three games: Led Zeppelin, Rush, and Foo Fighters

    high confidence · Scott stated this directly; clarified that it's only on LE versions of Rush and Foo Fighters, not on Premium or Pro models

  • Expression Lighting cannot be installed on Foo Fighters Pro but can be installed on Rush Pro (missing recess on Foo Fighters Pro)

    medium confidence · Scott stated this but noted uncertainty ('I need to check this') about Rush Pro compatibility

  • LED OCD and GI OCD boards have roughly doubled in price from ~$80-100 to ~$300 since COVID/silicon shortage

    high confidence · Scott detailed price history and attributed increase to Comet's acquisition and supply chain challenges

  • Stern Classics (Stern Electronics games like Dragon Fist, Nineball, Meteor) have 2-3 strategic paths to big points, unlike most games of that era

    high confidence · Scott explained the design philosophy behind these games and why he collects them

  • Dragon Fist is extremely rare with approximately 250 ever made

    medium confidence · Scott stated this but acknowledged 'I don't know the exact number'

  • Stern pricing has hit the ceiling; LE pricing is 'mad now'

    medium confidence · Neil expressed this opinion about current Stern LE pricing ($13,000) vs Premium ($10,500-11,000)

  • Stumbler's LED boards are cheaper than Comet boards in the UK and work as plug-and-play without configuration

    high confidence · Scott endorsed Stumbler's products based on his direct experience using both brands

  • UK Open 2025 is sold out

    high confidence · Scott mentioned telling someone they couldn't attend because it's sold out

Notable Quotes

  • “if those manufacturers had access to LEDs and colored LEDs, more important, to enhance inserts or create the right saturation, stuff like that, 110% they would have done LEDs”

    Scott Rundell @ ~1:07:00 — Core argument for why LED conversions on vintage machines are justified and historically appropriate

  • “I'm just not one for originality. I don't, I'd rather it look mint and I'd be a reproduction than to have it be original and full of holes.”

    Scott Rundell @ ~28:00 — Reflects broader community divide between originality purists and modern restoration aesthetics

  • “These games are very simple. It's pure pinball. Pinball is its most purest form.”

    Scott Rundell @ ~48:00 — Explains his philosophy on why Stern Classics (Dragon Fist, Meteor, etc.) appeal to him despite simplicity

  • “It took me 18 minutes 22 seconds [to move the James Bond 007 cabinet without the playfield]”

    Neil McCray @ ~15:00 — Practical detail about cabinet logistics; shows pre-wiring helped simplify the process

  • “it's like using a Ferrari if there was a hole in the bodywork of the Ferrari you'd fill it and I said absolutely I'd replace the panel I said I would not be accepting a hole even if it's vintage”

    Scott Rundell @ ~26:00 — Illustrates his restoration philosophy with a memorable analogy

  • “I don't understand that plunge. It's such a weak plunge as well, and it's like, what were you thinking when you designed that?”

    Scott Rundell @ ~58:00 — Criticism of Star Wars Pro/Premium design; plunge is first contact with game and poor design impacts experience

  • “Star Wars doesn't feel like, to me, like you're in a Star Wars movie in the same way that Mando feels you're in a Mando episode”

    Scott Rundell @ ~59:00 — Thematic immersion critique of Star Wars vs Mandalorian; subjective but important feedback on IP theming

  • “For me, at least, every machine I build, whether it's for me or someone else... it's a go-to product to have. You have to have it.”

Entities

Neil McCraypersonScott RundellpersonStern PinballcompanyStumblerpersonCometcompanyUK PinfesteventUK OpeneventJames Bond 007 LEgame

Signals

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern is segmenting Expression Lighting as a Limited Edition feature on Rush and Foo Fighters, unavailable on Pro/Premium models, which cannot be retrofitted (at least on Foo Fighters Pro). This creates pricing pressure as LE ($13k) approaches Premium + retrofit ($10.5-11k + $500 kit).

    high · Scott confirmed Expression Lighting only on LE for Rush and Foo Fighters; LE $13k, Premium $10.5-11k, kit $500; missing recess prevents Foo Fighters Pro installation

  • ?

    product_concern: Star Wars Pro and Guns N' Roses have weak/poor plunge design that impacts first impression and gameplay; Scott describes plunge as initial contact with game and criticizes the design choice.

    high · Scott: 'You plunge, dead. You auto-plunge, dead. It's just shit.' Describes it as weak plunge and questions designer intent

  • $

    market_signal: Stern LE pricing may be reaching market ceiling; Neil notes LE pricing is 'mad now' at $13k and observes that LE cost approaches Premium + mods/upgrades, potentially squeezing margin between product tiers.

    medium · Neil: 'I think Stern have definitely hit the ceiling'; discussion of LE $13k vs Premium $10.5-11k + $500 Expression + other mods converging

  • ?

    technology_signal: LED modifications (LED OCD, Stumbler boards, Afterglow) are becoming standard for restoration/upgrade of classic and 90s games; hosts describe them as essential, not optional, due to ghosting issues on incandescent-era machines.

    high · Scott: 'For me, at least, every machine I build... it's a go-to product to have. You have to have it.'; specific games called out (Lord of the Rings, Creature from Black Lagoon, Spider-Man)

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.286

0:00
welcome to the great british pinball podcast and here are your hosts scott rundell and neil mccray welcome everybody uh neil mccray here i'm joined by my partner in crime hello hello scott yeah how you doing how you doing scott no that's too bad busy week of pinball pinball hard work when is it not you're supposed to say no it's enjoyment oh it's so great i can't wait every moment is great neil i i love it i love screws i have to say i know how busy scott is because he's currently doing my theater magic i think we mentioned this last episode and it's got to the kind of the fiddly, annoying... The dialing in stage, I call it. Yeah, the swearing stage.
0:59
It can definitely be. I mean, a lot of it is, yeah, fine-tuning. You've just got to get everything right. That's with Thimble, right? Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, Luke, we'll talk about that when it's finished and put some pictures up, but so far, I mean, I'm super excited about it. And it's, as you know, a special game that the wife bought me. I should put a poster of it. She bought it for Christmas. She actually wrapped it. I should put the photo up on Facebook at some point in time So here's the intro We're going to Talk a little bit about what we've done in pinball This month, any new stuff that we've got We're going to talk A bit about some mods that we've got That are out in the market that we want to That we think are great Scott's going to talk about that Then a little bit on rumours I kind of highlighted this There's a lot on rumour mill right now also maybe talk about the state of the market a little bit because there's a lot of debate about what's really the state of the market new code updates two big code updates in the last few weeks that really made a difference that we wanted to cover and then we'll end with what's going on in the UK obviously there's a massive show that as you listen to this you're probably on your way to it UK Pinfest up at Davintry filling the gang doing their usual great event and I think it will be a wonderful event some cool stuff up there although I was sad to hear that Weird Al isn't going to make it yeah it's a shame and we'll cover some other events towards the coming on from now to the end of the year so what have we done in pinball this month or since the last show I'm going to say I finished if you're watching this on YouTube which we do record it we are an audio podcast but we do record a video you'll see behind me my James Bond 007 the LE that arrived broken I don't know if you saw my unboxing video Scott I did, I remember I was on your live chat on Twitch when you were talking me through the mess that it was, I was shocked to be honest with you So I'm outside my shed. I'll put a photo of it up on Facebook as the old cabinet. But let me tell you, there was a lot of doomsayers about how hard it would be to move. Actually, the cabinet came pre-wired. It had everything in it. The only thing it didn't have were the side blades, which Stern sent out and I put on. That's simple enough, yeah. Yeah, it's just easier to do when there's no play field in it. And then I moved the play field and the back box over. I timed it It took me 18 minutes 22 seconds But there was this Big elapsed part Of me realising there was no No Artblades and having to order them Which took about 6 weeks But the game's in thanks to Philip Pimbleheaven Chris at Electrocoin and the Stern guys For getting it over although I have to say if that happens again I'm going to send the game back I was going to say, what happens to those games like Is it Rush that's got the expression lighting Is that recessed into the cabinet The lighting Yeah, so I just fitted it to the one That we have in Pinball Republic And basically there's like Two slots, you unscrew them There's plastic spacers And you slide them in But let me tell you, you can do it with a playfield in And actually Carl D'Angelo I was talking to him about it, i.e. Pinball He did it with the playfield in because at home he's limited for space. Brad helped me get the playfield out for the one in Pinball Republic and we put it in without the playfield. It just makes it so much quicker, so much easier. And also, you can move the transfer around a little bit and when you're doing the expression lighting, some of it's already pre-done, so you've got to match it up. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, it's not hard. Do you think that's going to become a norm? Do you think Stern's going to keep doing that? Or is it that was an experiment, do you think? A bit like the projector with Stranger Things. No, so it's now on three games. So it's on Led Zeppelin, where it started. It's on Rush. And it's on Foo Fighters. Now, the interesting thing is... I didn't know it was on Foo Fighters. Okay. Yeah, well, it's only on Foo Fighters LE.

Scott Rundell @ ~1:11:00 — Strong endorsement of LED mod boards as essential for restoration, not optional

  • “Lord of the Rings is a very good example. If you don't have, I would say, LED OCD in that or Afterglow in that, then you are definitely going to be missing out.”

    Scott Rundell @ ~1:12:00 — Specific game recommendation for LED OCD installation; highlights games where ghosting is particularly visible

  • “if you do incandescence on that game the gi is really sparse on the play field so when you go and put something like incandescence in it it just it's so dark some areas are pretty much pitch black”

    Scott Rundell @ ~1:18:00 — Practical disadvantage of incandescent lighting on certain games like Addams Family

    • Mandalorian
    game
    Star Wars Pro/Premiumgame
    Trongame
    Led Zeppelingame
    Rushgame
    Foo Fightersgame
    Dragon Fistgame
    Meteorgame
    Nineballgame
    Kissgame
    James Reidperson
    Bradperson
    Matt Vinceperson
    Pinball Refinery MIcompany
    Addams Familygame
    Lord of the Ringsgame
    Creature from the Black Lagoongame

    product_concern: LED OCD and GI OCD board prices have doubled since COVID/silicon shortage and Comet acquisition (~$80-100 to ~$300); Stumbler's UK-made alternative offers cheaper, plug-and-play option.

    high · Scott: 'I remember I imported a bunch of them for the forum... they were about $100 each. Yeah, they've definitely jumped... somewhere in the region of £300 to $300'

  • ?

    community_signal: Community split between originality purists (want incandescent, vintage fading) and modern restorers (prefer LEDs, mint aesthetics). Scott advocates for modern LED approach as aligned with what original manufacturers would have done if available.

    high · Scott: 'if those manufacturers had access to LEDs... 110% they would have done LEDs'; explicit counter-argument to purist incandescent-only camp

  • ?

    collector_signal: Scott acquired Dragon Fist (~250 ever made, extremely rare Stern Electronics game) and Meteor under $5k total; demonstrates collector market for rare 80s Stern Classics at affordable secondary market prices.

    high · Scott: 'I got both of them for under five grand'; 'it's probably one of Stern's first move away from electromechanical to electronic'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Stumbler is emerging as significant aftermarket mod designer/manufacturer in UK, with products (LED boards, pop bumper lollipops, neon signs) being actively endorsed and used by community figures like Scott.

    high · Scott endorses Stumbler boards heavily; notes he's done work on Godzilla and many other games; positioning as alternative to Comet with better UK pricing and plug-and-play simplicity

  • ?

    event_signal: UK Pinfest 2025 (at Daventry) is major community event happening around the time of this podcast; sold out; community preparing machines for it.

    high · Neil: 'UK Pinfest up at Davintry... you're probably on your way to it... you're probably on your way to it'; Scott mentioned it's sold out

  • ?

    operational_signal: Neil and Scott are preparing machines for UK Open 2025; Neil clearing inventory (selling spare parts as bulk lot to Matt Vince), ordering trophies, getting James Bond 007 LE operational; Scott restoring Cheater, Tron, Star Wars for the event.

    high · Neil: 'I'm outside my shed... getting ready for the UK Open... sold my entire collection of spares'; Scott: 'Brad has got at home testing ahead of the UK Open'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stern Electronics (Stern Classics: Dragon Fist, Meteor, Nineball) designed games with tournament/competitive focus and multiple strategic paths (drop targets + spinners) rather than mass casual appeal; rare as a result but highly valued by competitive/collector community.

    high · Scott: 'they were more, I think their pinball machines were what I would call more focused on the competition player'; 'they're all drop target spinner games'; explains Steve Kirk designed for APA tournaments

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Scott notes Star Wars Pro/Premium lacks Star Wars movie immersion compared to Mandalorian, which better captures thematic feel despite having smaller production scope; suggests IP theming execution varies significantly even within same manufacturer.

    medium · Scott: 'Star Wars doesn't feel like... you're in a Star Wars movie in the same way that Mando feels'; acknowledges subjectivity ('this guy's a kook') but clear performance gap between titles on theme execution

    • 5:29
    And it's only on Rush LE. So it's not... Oh, right. So they've actually added an actual feature into an LE that's not on the premium. Yeah, which I'll be honest with you, which is fine because I buy the LE. but I also bought a premium Foo and a premium Rush for Pinball Republic and it doesn't have it on it and it's a bit given the money I'm thinking that's a bit tight and it's not actually an upgrade it's like I want to say 500 bucks so you can still buy it even if you buy it pro as an example you can still get it right ah I don't know so apparently and I need to check this but you can't install it on Foo Fighters Pro or on Rush Pro or is that right on Rush pro you could definitely install it on led z pro i think you can install it on rush pro is that because the recess is missing or the recess is missing and you definitely cannot install it on foo fighters pro um which again as someone who buys the premium le i kind of like that but it seems a bit i'm trying to think like what would the price difference be then if you bought a premium and then had to upgrade it to add the expression lighting what kind of price difference So are we then between that and the LE at that point? Yeah, I mean, so if I use the American prices, I think it's $13,000 for the LE, $11,000 for the, is it $11,000? Maybe $10,500 for the premium. It's $500 for the kit.
    7:00
    It's definitely encroaching on the LE number at that point, isn't it? Yeah, and, you know, if you do speakers, You do powder coating You're getting closer to the price But I still think The LE pricing is mad now And I think We'll cover this later on But I think Stern have definitely hit the ceiling But we'll cover this on I mean the other thing I've been doing in pinball this month Is getting ready for the UK Open In fact you may not See it But if I move my chair out of the way just briefly the place is a total mess i could do the exact same thing unfortunately and it's just a sad estate it's um i've matt vince has like decided to help me out though i've literally like sold my entire collection of spares to him as one job lot i was gonna i was gonna stick on the forum and i messaged him and he goes i'll take the lot and i was like well that saves me a lot of hassle sticking up multiple adverts because i've just got too much stuff well he um well the I just got loads of bits and pieces that arrived so I got like a big box of gaffer tape that we used to kind of tape stuff off and there's so many little things when you're doing an event like that and they just pile up and pile up and every now and again I kind of get a plastic box and clear them all out so we've got to clear it and then obviously we've been testing games in here and it's just incredible the amount of crap that builds up can you imagine what I get through I had nine hinges, nine sets of hinges. That's not nine individual, that's nine pairs of hinges. Like four sets of legs, six lock bars. I literally had like three or four different plastic sets from different games. I just said to him, you can have the lot. It was getting to the point where Holly was going to kill me. I'll tell you one thing. If anyone needs any stern armor, let me know because I've basically bought, there's a guy in the US Pinball Refinery MI Pinball Refinery does beautiful powder coating and he did my Godzilla and sorry not my Godzilla he did is it airbrushing or powder coating that he's done? powder coating if you go to the Pinball Republic and you have a look at my Deadpool and Godzilla no not Godzilla sorry Jurassic Park he's put the factory coating for the LE so red sparkle on a bright red sparkle on Deadpool and the dark green on Jurassic Park and it looks stunning he's one of these guys that takes pins and kind of spruces them up for people works with Cointaker and I was talking to him and he said oh yeah I could do some stuff for you So we have a local guy here, but he's so difficult to deal with. Is he? Yeah, and I'll be honest with you. I just email the guy at Pinball Refinery. I email him and say, hey, after this. He basically buys the pieces. He does the powder coat. So I brought back two boxes from Texas Pinball Festival last year. He's doing four for me this year at Expo, which will come to later. So I've got loads of Armour If anyone wants it I'm just going to take donations to Autistic National Autistic Society If anyone wants to claim any of it Drop me an email to neil.domino.org I think I'm going to have about six sets That's good And that's legs Lockdown bar The two side bits and hinges Is that everything I think? yeah nice thing about the Stern stuff compared to the Bally at least or Bally Williams for that matter it's not glued to the cab getting old rails off is just a nightmare on those absolutely it's a big difference so lots of bits for the UK Open I just ordered the trophies today and Bond's up and running and yeah it's been good I've been travelling a lot, I went to Japan actually went to I went to an arcade in Japan that had pinball machines yeah I remember you telling me Pirates of the Caribbean sat there at the top but not a lot of pinball stuff otherwise just I've been so crazy busy at work what about you what else have you been doing pinball wise Scott you know me I'm always getting bored with my collection so unfortunately I've sold my fishtails it's the wife's favorite or one of her favorites i'm not too particularly keen on the game if i'm honest with you i think it's a little bit simplistic i think it's fine as a night he's kind of pinned they get me wrong but i'd rather have something else filling his shoes um so i've been out hunting on games when go see a twilight zone yesterday it's it's an okay shape i've put an offer down he's considering it um but just like a lot of people they don't show you the whole pictures online. So you see a couple of pictures and you go see it on site and it's like, yeah, the legs look brown and, and it's got rust everywhere in the corners. It's funny. I was talking to a lot to him about the condition because a lot of people are like going, oh, you know, here's the original. I've kept it as original as possible. And for me, I started talking to him, say to him, I'm just not one for originality. I don't, I'd rather it look mint and I'd be a reproduction than to have it be original and full of holes. and you get the analogy of a Ferrari if there was a hole in the bodywork of the Ferrari you'd fill it and I said absolutely I'd replace the panel I said I would not be accepting a hole even if it's vintage just to me I want it to look good yeah I mean it's like you get the I want it to look good but I want it to look you know some of these games to look modern and a modern era so absolutely and you know that's really I mean we talked about this before with the remakes but you know can you imagine an attack from mars remake coming out with a plasma orange dmd it just just wouldn't make sense so you know if you know every game i've ever had that's been a williams or or you know a 90s game first thing i put in it is colored dmd it just makes such a difference it's a go-to product right and i think it transforms it as you say it brings it my goal has always been trying to make something more modern whether that's like replacing mechs or and uh how can i put it like upgrading to LEDs and we'll talk about that I suppose in a moment about the mod spotlight and that but for me I think it's just taking stuff and moving risk factors away as well you know a lot of stuff is old and it will burn out the the power driver board because it's like using like incandescent as an example yeah so yeah just the heat and energy it uses I mean it's yeah exactly definitely um yeah i mean new stuff i mean so i actually actually i'm gonna um i did buy two pinball machines this month um oh yeah okay only two this month actually i bought two sorry i'm gonna tell i bought three um so on ebay there was um a kiss a stern kiss oh yeah i've never seen that and i I got it at a ridiculously good price.
    14:35
    It's in a tattoo shop in Edinburgh. Actually, about a mile from where I used to live in Edinburgh. Wow. We're actually almost 10 minutes from an arcade I used to play at during lunchtime. Probably was from that arcade, I bet. Yeah.
    14:52
    No, so, I mean, it needs a bit of TLC, but it's been in the window, so the decals have come off. Oh yeah, typical fade But nothing I'm worried about It's a great It's for UK Open It's a great tournament game Although I can't stand the music Personally speaking And for the price I thought Nah, I can't ignore it So the guy I dealt with The guy who owns the tattoo shop Brilliant guy And actually he was saying I want to come down to this event And I was like Sorry, it's sold out But yeah, so I bought that And then I got an insane heart attack moment. So, as you know, I collect the older Stern games, so Quicksilver, Nineball, etc, etc.
    15:41
    Actually, big shout out to James Reid at Majestic Pinball, who's redoing my cheater right now. He's putting a new playfield in for the UK Open, but I managed to get a game called Stars, which is probably one of Stern's first move away from electromechanical to electronic. It's a great game. It's a big competition game. It's got chimes in it, which, you know, if you like the old electromechanical chimes, you'll love it. But at the same time, the guy I got it from, I happened to notice in the background of this picture, he had a Dragon Fist which is an insanely rare Stern Electronics game so I'm not too aware on that one so talk me through it, why is it rare? I think there's about 250 of them ever made I don't know the exact number but it's also a phenomenal game so I never understood how does that happen then so it becomes a great game but they only produced a small number was that because at the time it wasn't perceived as good or they just didn't have any money to make more? I think it was a case of, I think at that time it was the 80s and Stern Electronics Inc., as it was known, SEI.
    17:00
    I think they started off well, and then I think basically there was so much competition back then. You know, Gottlieb Ballet was separate company from Williams. You have Williams. There's just so many people making pinball machines, and I think they kind of struggled a little bit, And they were more, I think their pinball machines were what I would call more focused on the competition player than having fun, perhaps.
    17:28
    Really? Even back then? So they would still make a focus around tournament players? So Steve Kirk, who was one of their big designers, he designed Nineball and Meteor and a few other games. He actually ran the first American pinball association for competitions. And actually, if you look at my nine ball, it's got this sticker on it with a phone number that no longer works saying, call here for tournament info. And they came out with, they were one of the first to do an actual brandy game, Ali, based on Muhammad Ali, which is. Oh, yeah. I've got one at Pinball Republic. You can play there. It's a great game. Anyway, Dragon Fist is just, it's very rare. It's a stunningly brilliant game. It's gotten so much. I want another game. And I've actually managed to play it once in New York, an event I was at in New York. I was in a competition. I didn't want to play in a competition. I just wanted to play Dragon Fist all night. Walk me through it then, because I've never really got into these old eras, right? I mean, what makes it good for you? Is it down to the shots? Is it down to the code? What is it that makes you say one more?
    18:34
    So these games are very simple. It's pure pinball. Pinball is its most purest form. and it's a drop target and and spinner game and i just love drop target spinner games and and in fact all i mean if you look at all the stern electronics games they're all drop target spinner games and i love them i just find them is that like similar to like tna then is that kind of thing yeah that drop target kind of game or yeah i mean tna's um got a bit more switches in it But yeah, and also I don't think TNA links to Spinner as well as Stern games do. So, you know, for example, and I'll take Star as an example. You can go for Stars and go for Spinners. And in an old game, there's like two or three strategies you can use on that game to get big points. And in a game of that era, it's just unheard of because, you know, if you're playing another game, there's usually one path to big points. You know, if you play a Williams game of that era, like Firepower, you know, there's one way of getting points on that. Whereas on some of the stand classics, it's two or three. So Meteor, you can go for the bonus rockets or you can go for the spinner.
    19:43
    But to do that, you know, to go for the spinner, you've got to connect it with a drop target. And I just think there's just a tiny bit more thought in those games than other games of that era. And I think, you know, as competition pinball has got, you know, bigger and bigger and bigger, you know, these sort of games have come out of the woodwork. I have to thank Pinbird for my love of these games because they had a meteor that I got to play. And I literally said to my wife, go play. There was another one in the public area. Go play it. And we both loved it. And then actually Lee managed to find me one, a really nice one. It's, again, at Pinball Republic if you want to play it. So I just love, for some reason, I just love that game. You know, some people love the Bally Williams games. Some people love Gottlieb. Some people love Jersey Jack. For me, the Stern Classics is the best to get. And the thing is, is I got both of them. Let's just say I got both of them for under five grand. And there'll be a lot of people, like, falling off their chairs, thinking, how much?
    20:50
    And I mean that in a low sense, not in a high sense. If you say they're as rare as they are, then I imagine, yeah. And they're both beautiful. I'm hoping that they arrive in time for the UK Open, but it's 50-50 right now. But if not, they'll definitely be here for next year's one. But, yeah, it's just great. And then I bought a load of parts for Star Wars. Most people will be chuckling at this, but I bought a Star Wars. The Stern Star Wars, is it? Yeah. So I hate the game. I think it's terrible.
    21:22
    But a lot of people like it. But is that because you've got a pro or have you got a premium? What have you got? I've got a pro, but to be honest with you, the premium is slightly better, no question about it. Because of the Hyperloop thing that it's got, right? Yeah, Hyperloop's cool. Yeah. But the thing I hate about it is the plunge. You plunge, dead. You auto-plunge, dead. It's just shit. It's a really good game, and we're going to screw up this little crap corner bit that happens to be… Guns N' Roses has got the same problem in my book. I don't understand that plunge. It's such a weak plunge as well, and it's like, what were you thinking when you designed that? The plunge is your first contact with the game. Yeah, absolutely. And I just don't know what they were thinking. And also, I could have a long rant about this, but I'll say it very quickly. Star Wars doesn't feel like, to me, like you're in a Star Wars movie in the same way that Mando feels you're in a Mando episode. It's hard to explain, and probably everyone will be like, this guy's a kook, which is fine.
    22:29
    But I just think for such a big IP... Do you know what? I was surprised. Have you ever played the home-pinned version of Star Wars?
    22:38
    Yes, I have. I actually think as a Star Wars game, that feels more like Star Wars. It's weird, right? I played it, and I was like, bloody hell. for a budget Stern pin, actually, it plays damn well. I was really surprised by that. Yeah, I've played the Spider-Man home pin, which is also the same layout as the fashion one, Supreme.
    23:03
    And I've played the Jurassic Park pin. The Jurassic Park pin is phenomenal. Actually, you could put that as a modern game, and people would love it. Yeah, other than the postage stamp LCD. I do wonder sometimes with Stern, it's like the price of that screen what would it cost them to put like an extra 2-3 inches in that yeah exactly can't be a lot it's a joke but you know that's they're trying to make it look different and one way you can make it look very different but I think there's a guy on Pinside who's actually modded it to take a normal I can imagine it's quite easy right yeah it's just LVDS plug bang you're good to go it's all spike 2 I think the whole system is spike 2 yeah so and I bought a lot of bits for Star Wars that Brad has got at home testing ahead of the UK Open So you know Shaker Motor lights Insider Connect bits plastic protectors, all the usual stuff that used to come in game. Yeah. And a big thanks to Brad. He's done that with Tron as well, just getting it ready. I do like that game, actually. You mod that right, it definitely really does shine. Yeah, I bought this one off Kevlar, and you've already done a lot of great work it looks beautiful I haven't played it yet but I saw a video of Brad playing it and it looks absolutely lovely taking us into mods and actually Tron's one of those games where a lot of people like to mod it to look like the LE with the lit ramps and the bike, a bunch of other stuff the little arcade Tron game but you know I find the mod world just incredible. And what I'm finding, Scott, is the amount of detail and money going into some mods that I look at it and think, crikey, that's pricey. But when you get it,
    24:59
    you can see where the money's gone. Oh, absolutely. It's not easy making mods. I should know because I've got some back burner stuff that I'm doing in the background, which I'm not ready to show yet before you ask but I've had a couple of people asking me to make toppers of all things and I've got things planned for a couple of games, one of them's nearly finished and I've got servo motors and everything in it it's going to be mental when that's finished but yeah it took even it even built out like the platform because my neighbour thankfully has a CNC router so we did a lot of trial and error building out different things but yeah when the time is right i'll reveal that but yeah on to um what i feel like is a good spotlight to talk about and we briefly touched upon it at the beginning um is effectively with i mentioned incandescence and said to you like you know burnouts from power driver boards for me at least i'm not a fan of incandescence i know there's a lot of purists out there who absolutely will swear by them and they'll say no the only way to produce a game from that era, 80s, 90s, even early 2000s, incandescence has got to be the way it goes because that's just how the game was built. But my counter-argument to that would be if those manufacturers had access to LEDs and colored LEDs, more important, to enhance inserts or create the right saturation, stuff like that, 110% they would have done LEDs.
    26:27
    Thankfully, there are problems as you know, putting in LEDs. If you just do it as is, you're going to get things called ghosting. That's where the light will still emit, even when it's not powered, because basically LEDs versus incandescents require a lot less voltage to operate. So obviously it reduces the power consumption. That's going to lead to better power efficiency on your power driver board. So it's not going to be taxed as high or hopefully last longer.
    26:54
    For me, at least, you just have to get past it by putting in basically mods to fulfill the gap around the ghosting and the fade because there's two things, I suppose, that happen with LEDs. One, they're instantaneous when they light, typically, in a, let's call it a standard setup with no mods. So you lose that kind of, I would say, fade in and fade out that some games that will animate, especially during what they call their attract mode, which is when they're powered on.
    27:21
    There are a couple of mods out there that address this issue. So you've got Comet, who make LED OCD and GI OCD, They split the boards out, so one effectively handles the inserts inside the playfield. That's LED OCD. And then the other board, which is GI OCD, handles the global illumination, which is basically the lighting around the playfield typically that stays on all the time. Now, both of those boards, unfortunately, because of the, I find, since COVID and probably the silicon shortage, the price of those boards have jumped considerably. The investment is somewhere in the region of £300 to $300, depending on where you buy them. so they were really expensive. They were going for about $100 at one point, weren't they? Yeah, they were pretty reasonable. And back when I first started, you could get them for $80, $90, so they more or less doubled. I remember I imported a bunch of them for the forum. I did a group buy, and they were nowhere near. Yeah, they were about $100 each. Yeah, they've definitely jumped. And maybe it's probably since Comix acquired them, and then they've had to find supply chains to meet demands. But thankfully, we've got somebody in the UK who builds basically these after-go kits. So his name's Stumbler. You probably recognize the name from especially from Godzilla. So he did like the neon Tokyo sign. Done many other different mods like his lollipop GI and pop bumper lollipops. They're all really good, to be honest with you. Every mod he makes puts a lot of effort and thought into trying to solve a problem. In fact, I have one of the boards for those of you actually on the camera can probably see them. But that's an insert board from Stumbler. So this will work in both Bally and in SAM, I think is the term. So basically the early Stern boards. It's just done via a simple dip switch. The one thing I like about Stumbler's boards versus, say, the Comet ones, because I've used both, I would say Comet gives you the ability to load profiles and you can then interrogate the board and say, right, I've got it for this game. And you can then tweak the settings, do individual dimming for certain switches and stuff like that, or certain switches and inserts, let's call it that, while I'd say Stumbler's is more plug-and-play. And I find if you don't do any configuration on the Comet boards and you do a comparison between Stumbler's and Comet, I'd say Stumbler's are better. And on top of that, they're cheaper, at least in the UK. But, yeah, I fully endorse the product, to be honest with you. For me, at least, every machine I build, whether it's for me or someone else, So I pushed them and say, it's a go-to product to have. You have to have it because otherwise you spend all this money restoring it. You know, you put new like decals on the cabinet, you restore the things and dents, you put new play field in, new shiny nuts and screws and plastics and everything like that. And then you get to the lighting and it's flashing. And some people won't notice it. You really do have to look. Some games I would say show it more than others. Like Lord of the Rings is a very good example. If you don't have, I would say, LED OCD in that or Afterglow in that, then you are definitely going to be missing out. Another game is Creature from the Black Lagoon in the 90s era. 100% it's a must-go product in that respect. Yeah, I mean, I have LCD. In fact, I think the Theoremagic I gave you had an LCD OCD board in it.
    30:41
    And I had it in Spider-Man because Spider-Man's got this, the original Stern Spider-Man has got the modes the light gets brighter depending on how far you've gotten the mode so if you didn't have it you didn't know how far you were in I am one of those people that doesn't really notice it there are some as I say you show them in front of them they're like don't see the difference I think the only time I have seen a difference is with Spider-Man but again everyone loves a great light show and a pinball machine it's one of the things as especially what you're watching a if you're watching a tournament and they've got a downward camera and you see it spinning you really start to notice the um the the whole show and the effort that they put into the shows and even you know with today's modern leds thinking of godzilla right now you know the whole play field is alive and telling you what to do and if you look at it it's just it's it's absolutely incredible to see and the amount of effort that must go into code that is um is insane but yeah i mean there there are some games even i find to be honest if you do incandescence as an example adam's family i know it's not your favorite game but if you do incandescence on that game the gi is really sparse on the play field yeah so when you go and put something like incandescence in it it just it's so dark some areas are pretty much pitch black absolutely i find don't get me wrong like it's down to people's preference right you can do sunlight white which is basically a bulb that mimics that of an incandescent light i prefer frosted white i'm in definitely in the frosted white camp um i used to do clear white but you can get blinded by the leds at that point i think frosted basically means it becomes an opaque lens so the light basically diffuses through that opaque lens and it creates better i would say less glare um because you can be absolutely blinded by LEDs if you don't watch it. Yeah, Ghostbusters springs to mind. If you ever look at that game during volleyball, my god,
    32:46
    it's like, it flashes and the volleyball starts, you're like, where the hell's the ball? You can have an epileptic fit. Your eyes are like blown out. I mean, I've got the Tokyo mode, I've seen it. I kind of moaned at Dave about the Tokyo mode because it is very Tokyo. But the game goes to London, it goes to New York, I think. I kind of wanted them to do a more not a non-Tokyo one but more a more neutral city to be honest I ended up putting the Tokyo mod it looks stunning he sent me one and it's great and actually tune in to Pinball Expo in Chicago Dave and I Dave's done a presentation on how he does mods and slumber mods and then I'm doing a presentation right after him on a bit of an update on Pinball Republic because we had a flood since we last presented.
    33:48
    Oh really? I didn't know that. No, this was the start of the year. Oh, okay. It could have been worse than it was. It was bad enough, but just doing an update, really just to keep the name of what's going on. I volunteered your presentation just to make it a bit more international at Pinball Expo. It's a great show. So I'm also covering a bit about, you know, how do we put the UK open together, some of the challenges and pain points.
    34:14
    I can imagine it's a lot of work. Yeah, just half an hour. And Dave's not a public speaker, so I'm working with him to help him out on that. I'm really looking forward to it because he's such a good guy. We were both at Texas and we had a right old laugh there, and he won the Twippy, which was great to see. Yeah. kind of jumping I mean so the other mod I wanted to talk about if you're on YouTube you'll see it above my head which is the Bond Topper and let me actually let me just talk a bit more about Bond we're going to do this in segments but I think I'll cover a lot so Bond there's two Bonds there's 007 and then there's a 60th 007 I've got both of them and the 0060 it comes with the same topper that you can buy now for the regular bot. And I have to say, it's one of their best toppers. I'm very impressed by it. You'll see it flashing above my head right now. And what's cool about it is the guy's working on the two games, so it's two different software teams. They've kind of got the most out of it in different ways, which is kind of cool.
    35:28
    And Bond 60th is a bit more of an old school pinball machine and they light it like an old school pinball machine versus the modern guys have lit it. It recognises the different I suppose game and then displays based on what it's connected to? Yeah, I don't know if it recognises it or if it's in the code of the core game but it behaves very differently so if you put them together it's not like they're doing the same thing. They've obviously got only a few parts that light up but just the way that they've coded it, it's different. It's super impressive. I'd say, I think one of Stern's best toppers.
    36:07
    So on that then, how do you think that compares to, say, the Black Knight topper? Because that, to me, was their best.
    36:17
    Yeah, that's a good question. And I know you've got one. Yeah, you can maybe hear it moving. I mean, the Black Knight topper is, It's kind of It's comedic because It's almost Steve Ritchie's being built Into the game And it's hard to beat Steve Ritchie especially Humor wise the guy's just freaking hilarious I love him to bits So they've kind of built a little bit of Steve into that game that will be forever So I think they do two Things in different ways But they're both fantastic Toppers I mean the Mando Topper's very good as well With the kind of floating screen on it but see to me that that I know for you probably money's no object when it comes to a topper but it's a lot of money like I mean like I thought like you know again it's it it feels like Stern's taken an attitude with toppers I'd say that they're almost like watches they've created rarity not just because they want to keep the the numbers down but I feel they want to keep the prices high so they say okay we're only going to make 250 of these or whatever it happens to be and then I used to think 500 was a lot for a topper and now we're at the realm of 2000 it's definitely getting to the point where I think toppers costing as much as a pinball machine which is pretty expensive if I look at Deadpool, so I bought the topper for Deadpool when it came out, it was 400 quid in fact $400 the same topper is now 700 it's insane it's nuts, but I think, I'll be honest with you my My take on that, and I'm going to defend Stern, which I'm used to doing,
    37:59
    and a pinball world full of haters, but part of the reason why I think they charge so much money is because they can't build enough of them.
    38:10
    So if you're building, you know, you're going to get, let's look at Godzilla, right? For that game, you're going to get thousands of people wanting the topper. They could probably build 500 of them, maybe 600 of them. Because they're on the same production line, they're building games, right? What do you do? Well, to get the most out of that, we're going to jack the price up. And they know that they've got demand. So, yeah, there's a bit of cash grab there, but there's also a bit of, actually the reason we're pricing this high is to take some of the customers out of the picture deliberately. I mean, it's a shame because I prefer Chicago Games' approach with that, where it's like the top is included with the LE. and I feel like rather than turning around and maybe telling people everybody I mean there's two ways around of doing it right because I know even Chicago games ran into trouble when they said oh everybody can have the topper and then they had to bring a plus model I can imagine it did right because there's some people who's got an le it's like well that's my made my game less valuable now because everyone else can get it but I think there's probably a better way of doing it Pulp Fiction to me like that's again a great example of an amazing topper it's like i feel like stern you can charge that money and maybe they'll listen to this podcast or not but like for me it's like if you're gonna go and charge that money you've got to move away from plastic it's got to be something that's 3d molded and i feel like it is definitely within their skill set to do it i've seen it within like um well early days of black knight i've seen it for instance uh with l virus topper again that was a great example of a good topper and i know you've mentioned the the mando topper again it's definitely got realms of three dimensions to it i think what i don't want to see is basically plaques you know lexan plastics or plexi plastic yeah exactly we're just lights behind it what i'll tell you is is the bond topper is brick solid it's made of metal um it's not i mean it feels the Avengers topper feels like it's flimsy as hell Turtles as well Jurassic Park would be a disappointing topper as well but let me tell you the Bond topper feels like it almost feels like you've got your money's worth not quite but it's a lot closer and the way when you pick it up it's like holy shit this thing weighs a ton same with the Manda topper I don't mind paying a premium for a topper, I'm quite happy to put down like a thousand or fifteen hundred for one I think, if it's the right topper.
    40:43
    Just because it's going to add dimensions to the game. I love toppers. I like it when they animate. I want them to be able to do something.
    40:50
    I just think if it's just a bunch of lights and it's a static bit of plastic behind it, to me it doesn't add much. Yeah, and for that, that's why I still think the Attack from Mars topper, even though the alien just wiggles, it's just so well done. It just cracks. Even having about the game four years now, it still makes me laugh when it goes off. You should see the stuff I'm coming up with, the games. And these are games that are designed, as I said, for Bally Williams era, so I'm having to be a bit smart in how I get it to integrate back into the code, effectively. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is tricky, but I want it to do more than just light up. I want it to interact with a mode, or I want it to interact with something that's going on in the game. Yeah, which I think everyone wants. I mean, and then just kind of Moving on from the topper So New code came out for James Bond Two new updates That have transformed the game Let me tell you if you've played this game If you've played Bond before the last month You've probably thought What a terrible game And you're probably right to think that To be fair But the last code update that's brought the Bond girls in Has just made this game Hugely addictive So they added the Bond girls in I was wondering when they were going to finally do that Well they're there, they've been on the playfield for a while but if you hit the shot they didn't do anything the way that they've done it where you can kind of it's risk reward it's stunning Mike Vinokor and Afganeliga who's helping Mike out but those two guys have really nailed the code and they have absolutely transformed Bond into what many people thought was the bottom tier of Stern games right to the top tier so naysayers if you oh Bond there was a lot of noise about Bond because the launch was a bit of a pig's ear but it is a superb game now and as a massive Bond fan it's made my day and there's still some challenges with it like it doesn't have the music in it Which I would love to have seen Goldfinger play during Goldfinger Multiball but Paying for Shirley Bassett To sing on a pinball I can imagine there's a licensing issue with that It's a shame when that happens It is what it is though Yeah and in the 60th again They did a great job on that It's a simpler game so the code's a lot simpler So they got it finished quickly but I have to say Pretty pleased about that And before we move on from there so the other big talking point this month for a couple of reasons was Twilight Zone and let me just to make something really clear I don't like Twilight Zone so whenever I mention Twilight Zone I'm having to go to the game and not having anything else and many of you know that and pointed it out to me but there's a big rumour about it being remade yes i think to be honest with you like you only have to look at the way things have been hinted at so if you look at protetti as an example right and they they're doing for instance the whirlwind 2.0 kit look at the back glass and there's a pyramid on there or an eye yeah you know that wasn't in whirlwind yeah i think just like if you look at the way i mean like stern did it all the time right they used to add easter eggs into their games you know when the next game would come because a bit of it would be in that game. I think Godzilla was Easter egged in another game, wasn't it? I can't remember which one it was. Was it Turtles? I think it was, right? I think it was, yeah. Yeah, so you just have to look at the hints that are being dropped around. And basically, I'm betting good money on it. I think they've definitely got the license. I think if you look at this into the way the conversations have been had around Chicago games and saying how they don't think there's much of a future left in remakes and they've only got certain titles they think they're going to go for, I think what's happened here is other people have decided to take up the chalice and said, right, OK, I'm going to make a remake based on a 90s theme. So 100 percent expect to see a remake Twilight Zone. And my money's on it being from Predetti. But we'll see what happens, basically. I personally I know you're not a big fan of the game. I think it's got a lot of toys underneath the hood for me. We're definitely different styles of people when it comes to what makes the game interesting. for me it's like building the world under the glass and having tons of toys and different mechs and diverses and stuff like that i don't mind when a game breaks flow personally i know a lot of people would be exactly opposite to that they'll be like anything that breaks flow for me is not a fun um experience i mean elvira house of horrors it breaks flow you go into the house you start moji starts talking about it but for me it's again it's an interlude really i don't mind I think the thing that I get frustrated about Twilights on is a lot that you can't see what's going on true it's a packed game that little flipper at the top just drives me berserk you know I mean in terms of does it feel like you're in the Twilights on yeah I do think it does yeah it's got a lot of moments I'm not a massive wide body fan either which probably doesn't help it but yeah I just you know it's like anything else I don't like Chicken, why? I just don't like it I don't like Toilets, why? I just don't like it it's just one of those things but I know it is a well loved game I think it's his favourite game some people argue it's the best game but I don't think it's there I think it's definitely in my top 10 and I definitely want to have one I think like I think it suffers from being a wide body I used to think wide body I think to myself when I first started, why doesn't everybody just build a game in wide body? Because you can put more in the play field. But then I realized the geometry of it, at least, it affects the flow. I've not really seen a very fast wide body. Maybe Star Trek Next Generation. But I think it kind of likes to hug the outlanes as well. If you make a shot wrong, it's like, oh, there it goes, out the outlane.
    47:09
    It's hard to make a fast flowing wide body. Maybe Judge Dredd. Maybe. Again, it doesn't really feel like it's getting faster than the flipper. Just so much on the playfield as well. I mean, my take on, I don't think I've found a wide body that, you know, I'd want to hold on to, except for some of the older. Not a fan of Indiana Jones then? Nah well sorry I think Indiana Jones is okay but I find after a while the game so repetitive There so little to it I just get bored of it pretty quickly It's a beautiful-looking game. Oh, it is. When someone does a proper restore, I think you've done one. When you see one that's been done, it looks stunning. Matt had one in the club for a while. But I get kind of tired of it a little bit. the thing that you hear is the machine gun of the plane every five seconds it drives me potty but I don't know of a, I mean I try and find an example of a wide body game that I love to play and there's not many of them I would say but It sounds like you're struggling to find one I mean I have to say if Padre are rebuilding this my hat's off to them because that is no mean simple feat to do. I worry for the cost I must admit because that game is pretty packed even just the complexity of it I don't know if you've seen there's a video of I think there's a video on YouTube but I was there so at TPF Booch from CGC went through in huge detail all of the things that they are doing to what's the word to improve Cactus Canyon. So they've completely redesigned the drop target mechs. They've added art where art was missing. It's literally a one hour presentation of all the little things that they've done. Which is how it should be, right? I think that's what I like about Chicago Games. They're not just saying, we'll just pull the same parts list and put it all together. They're trying to find new solutions to old problems and saying, right, how can we make this more bulletproof? so hats off to them for that I'm very much looking forward to my Cactus Canyon whenever it may arrive yeah I mean that is a bit of a sore point for both of us yeah by the time I rise I probably won't want it it's the worry right there's so many other games coming out by that point it's like will it have a spot left in your lineup I love the CGC guys they make great games but they've got to do better at telling people what's going on. Yeah, there needs to be just a bit of clarity, I think. I mean, for people's context in the UK here, we've been waiting for a very, very long time for ILEs. It's been two years almost, is it? Yeah, maybe reaching on three at this point. But there's no transparency over, unfortunately, lead times on when they may arrive. There's rumours that it could be as little as six weeks or as much as three months. Yeah, I mean, for a 10 grand thing, It just feels a bit ridiculous. I mean, the reason I bought it was, you know, Lyman was doing the special code, which there's some question mark as to if that's coming, when it's coming. I spoke to Josh Sharp, who was involved in working with Lyman, and he's determined to get it out there. He's just not got a plan for it yet now. So hopefully we'll see it. I hope so. Well, put it this way, if the Lyman code, you know, If they say it's not coming, I suspect I'll sell mine pretty quickly.
    50:56
    Is that because you think the code's just going to be too simplistic for you? Yeah, I mean, I think they've finished off the code that wasn't finished from when it originally came out, which is not a terrible game. But actually, Mike Parkins, the guy who helps us run Pinball Republic and he runs Medway, he's got a CCC, Cactus Canyon Continued. And when you've played that, there's so much more to it. you know, the Cowboys versus Aliens and a bunch of other stuff that's in that. It's pretty cool. I think to go back to the base code is, you know, I just think I'll play it for a bit and then I'll be like, well, I've done that. What's next?
    51:38
    And it's not got the same, I don't think Cactus Canyon's got the same, I want another game that like Medieval or Monster Bash has, you know, so. Yeah. you're probably right out of those three at least. Medieval was probably going to be the one that you'd want to keep if you had a CGC remake. I really hope, you know, Padre, if you're listening, you need to make sure that you're not just building the same game. So here's the one thing I'd be looking at, the freaking clock on Twilight Zone.
    52:08
    I don't know, the go-to error message I always see is clock not working or clock issue. It's very common, let's face it, for a Twilight Zone. to have a credit dot. So they need to face into that and probably I'd like to see how they do more with a Powerball.
    52:29
    Yeah. Because I think it's a great idea. Well, they've proved that they can do their own code, right? And they can do their own animations. So maybe they can do a little bit of a new spin on it. Just as much as they've done 2.0 code with Whirlwind and Funhaus and so forth. Yeah, I mean, I think I played the remake of Funhouse, but Funhouse is another game that I'm... But yeah, anything that people are doing with pinball is great news, but Twilight Zone is not high up on my list of glorious games, I have to say.
    53:07
    The only Pat Lawler game I like really is Dowden, but moving on, kind of bouncing around a little bit here but the other thing is you know you're getting lots of rumours about Pinball Brothers and them bringing out something after Queen yeah I mean like I'd say everyone's going to be a bit surprised by this one but I think like they're going to look forward to the next release they might actually want it so I can't really say much more than that all I can say is that from what I've seen at least um it's on my list um and I feel like yeah if they for me at least one thing I they desperately need to work on other flippers um they they still lack of an end of stroke switch um which I know they say they do it via software and it handles the same thing but at least with my alien and I had both the standard edition and the lv if you just as much put a little bit too much pressure on the flipper when it was in the up position to try and drop catch the flipper would go down it needed that in-stroke switch to say hey i need to stay that hold power needs to stay up so that you can basically catch that ball as it's coming coming down towards you get a bit of that with tna that's got the same issue but on tna you don't notice it so much because the balls it's such a small play field yeah that top but it's you know you kind of and And again, Scott's tweaked it and tweaked it. I think he's got a happy medium.
    54:40
    And, of course, I mentioned Jaws. So Jaws Super Limited Edition is coming. I have told Phil I want one.
    54:50
    And there you are saying there's a ceiling to these games. I've said this to you before, Neil. When it comes to Stern and price ceilings, I honestly think, given the right license, there isn't one. I just don't think there is one if you get the right license and you do it right and it's got the right designer and the right artist behind it, the sky's the limit. And you kind of think knowing that, why wouldn't why are they doing Rush where there's games sitting in warehouses still I think they just misunderstood the market, I think like there's a lot of people unfortunately I think in the decision tree, let's call it that's there and that probably go when i was young rush was great and that's a good license to have and there's definitely a balancing act because you look at then they go they swing the other way and they release something like venom and the demographic in that pinball go what what's venom i don't know what venom is and it's like oh is it that that guy that was in spider-man 3 or something it's like you know it's a lot of people won't know who venom is and i don't think it resonated with them it's a difficult balancing act I'm a big comic book kid and Venom was not I remember seeing it but it wasn't one you naturally gravitated towards I mean the movies were ok they weren't great but the Venom game looks amazing, looks so fast I can't wait to play it I would have liked one, I'll be honest with you I think the difficulty for me is that given the choice of having another fan layout game by Brian Eddy and I love his stuff I mean, I loved Stranger Things, and it's the one game I keep telling you I regret getting rid of it. I shouldn't have sold it. I will get one back. I think if I had a choice, though, between Venom and Stranger Things, it would be Stranger Things. Yeah, I mean, I am. So I spoke to a friend of mine who's played it, and his feedback was because the ball's moving so fast, much faster than anything else, the fact that it's a fan layout makes it more enjoyable to play because you're not having to think too hard about where the shots are. I think the fast locks what threw me off because when I was watching Twitch streams, I was following the ball with my eye and then suddenly there's a ball appearing by his flipper and I was like, oh crap, because before the balls even hit the lock, it spat out the ball and said, here you go deal with this. And don't get me wrong, that's a very clever, innovative mech. I think that's very clever.
    57:22
    I just, for someone of my average skill set, I think I'd struggle with it. I pretty would. Like you say, I think part of the reason the play field's simple is because the ball's going so fast. So fast.
    57:34
    And, you know, look, Brian Eddy's no idiot making pinball games. No. I'm looking forward to the codes earlier. I have to say I'm a bit nervous about all this kind of RPG type codes. See, I'm in the opposite camp i think that's a great thing i mean i like the idea of being able to have progression in a game i think like you know we didn't touch on it but maybe i'd like to hear your views on jurassic park and what you thought of the new uh code update there as well yeah i like i like the progression stuff i'm a you know a big video gamer but i'm not sure if it works in pinball but i'm i'm i'm open to i mean yeah in jurassic park um i mean a bit of a shock to everyone that you know they've done a 30th i have to say my first reaction to it was the bastards um it's the fact it's another le i think that was a little bit of a kick in the teeth and also anybody who's an le earner because i had an le and i'm not gonna lie i'm glad i got rid of mine before this one arrived because i 100 think it would have affected the value of what i would have got for it but it also it's one of the godzilla le's sorry it's one of the godzilla it's one of the stern le's that is actually fairly LE. There's only 500 of them. Sure. Whereas today's LE, there's 1,000 of them. 1,000, yeah. Monster Bash was 1,250, or Cactus Canyon is 1,250, or, you know, there are typically 1,000 of them. So when you've got one that's 500, I'm like, okay, this is a little bit special. Sure. And now, effectively, there's another 500. However, it is a different LE, so I don't know.
    59:06
    It kind of goes on to that view of what you were talking about, the super LE for Jaws. Yeah, I know. I think that Stern is probably testing the waters, I think, on releasing effectively four different types of a game. That's what it's going to be. I don't know if they'll do that for everything because the pain. With the right license, they will. Yeah, maybe. I mean, yeah, you're right. I mean, they did it with Batman. They've done it with Phil Vira. So, you know, it's not impossible. But I think, I mean, my take on the 30th year edition is, well, look, you know, they've got a great, I mean, first of all, Jurassic Park is just a great game. it's tough, it's frustrating it's a very hard game very difficult game, I mean I only sold mine if it wasn't for Pin Clash I probably would have sold it actually so I had to learn how to play it I couldn't get anywhere on it, that's why I had to sell it I think I barely got up the playfield and actually I think you might be regretting that Scott because now they've got this they've got the co-op play I noticed in the code updates they said there's 150 new callouts is that now with voice actors from the movie or is it just simply stern voice actors no i think it's the regular voice acting okay unfortunately i mean that is the downside apart from nedry that is the downside of that game it has very limited assets so i would have thought you know that would have been a real announcing the whole 30th thing and then surprising everyone saying hey we've managed to acquire a lot of the movie assets effectively yeah i mean that would be great but i mean i'm just kind of happy that they've cracked open the code for a game that you know probably most people thought was done in that state oh it's a very unheard of thing let's face it i mean i i hope they do something similar with stranger things if i'm honest with you i don't know if they might because i remember netflix interviewed the directors of the of stranger things i should say they were like oh when we release new seasons will you do code updates they were like no we don't we don't do that and i was like thinking well maybe they might maybe this time when they hopefully because obviously the rumor is they're doing a run maybe that will tie in with season five when it comes out and maybe they'll do a whole Vecna kind of code update. I don't know. With the inserts, I think that's tricky.
    61:14
    Let's face it, the Demogorgon in the center is a bit difficult. We'll see what happens. It's great that they've done it. The co-op mode and the versus modes look great. They've redesigned Nedrae so it makes the game a little bit easier.
    61:28
    In fact, I'd say it makes it quite a lot easier. You can easily get, what I would say, two extra balls. Unreally extra balls or ball saves. So they made the game a little bit more friendly then Oh for sure, 100% for sure Because you always had the ball save on this side You know the escape You've now got it on the other side And you know I've said freaking Nedry so many times Of that game because it used to be the thing That you heard when the ball went So I mean I kind of think They've definitely made the game a bit more accessible No question about it And I think They've got this thing where If you get three things in a mode You get this extra Bonus which I think Is really cool They've done a couple of other tweaks to it that I think Are all Very positive And the team play Looks great I think that would be a lot of fun In fact I'm considering doing A kind of Jurassic Park team Event at the club because we've got one there pull together 10 teams and see who can put up the best score I think it could be a bit of a laugh yeah definitely so yeah I think it's a great surprise that they've done this the artwork looks great I actually like the kind of copper colour that they've put on the I think the product looks great and I think if I hadn't already had an LE I would have definitely gone for that it looks more To me, at least, it feels like it's better than the LE, which is probably, as I say, a little bit sour for everyone else who has an LE at the moment. I do think that of all the Jurassic parks, the one that looks the best is the premium one. It's just bizarre. Oh, yeah, that's weird, right? I was in the same camp. The car on the side is beautiful. Yeah, absolutely. But, look, well played for Stern for doing that. And, you know, a lot of naysayers think they would be charging for the code or the code would only work on one version. And to be clear, the code that runs on the 30th edition LE is exactly the same code that runs on the LE, and it's exactly the same code that runs on the premium. There's nothing that separates them, so you're getting all the feature functionality. My take is I think we'll probably see maybe one or two other versions of this. Maybe an Iron Maiden live edition was always the thing I thought you might see where they redo Iron Maiden, but they use the live music rather than the pre-recorded music of course if they did Iron Maiden right they'd do a disco version which would sell like hotcakes sure now so yeah let's kind of move on a little bit I think we've done sorry let's talk we mentioned Jaws there's no doubt it's coming now I think it'll be out for CES so January Do you think though on Jaws because I always heard the rumour was they may not have access to the full set of assets do you think they've managed to secure like for instance the music, the actors There's no way they can release Jaws without the music I hope not I just can't they would get panned no one would buy it do they have Roy Schneider we're going to need a bigger boat it needs that line if they don't, if they've got some kind of half way, we're going to need a bigger boat we've all due respect to the Americans but if we hear some weird twang that goes hey we're going to need a bigger boat I don't want that I must admit I want it original I hope to go with it I know for a fact that Jaws the way that it's licensed the way that the movie was licensed makes it a little bit easier for them to get all the assets like modern day films there's all these complexity of different licenses within the movie and you know it's one of the things you know where you see Star Wars when you license Star Wars you kind of get it all because they've got it all whereas what do you think is going to be in this Super Ellie what do you think is going to make you go hey I don't care what the number is I'm going to buy it. There's going to be a shark You think it's going to be a big shark coming out of the side of it I don't know what's going to be in the Super Alien I guess there'll be a topper right That is an opportunity for them to turn around and say hey you know what we're going to include the topper in this edition I don't mind that approach if it's done right proper SLE was Batman and it came with a topper and it's an amazing topper so I'm hopeful that the topper's in there it'd have to be a shark fin right? or maybe the mouth coming out you know I don't know something like this basically you only see this on the that's it it's got to be like it attacks the boat and the boat gets pulled down It's just some animatronics. I also think there needs to be a small dash of cheese.
    67:02
    Because if you watch the movie, it is a bit cheesy, right? Of course it is. There's certain elements of cheese.
    67:11
    But they've got to get the three main characters on the boat. If they don't have a lot of colors from them, I'll be disappointed. Do you think they're going to base it on any of the sequels or just focus on just the original film? I hope just the original.
    67:26
    I hope so too, if I'm honest. There was a rumour kicking about that it was Jaws 3, which was the worst of all the movies, I think. I was going to say, it's not going to be a Toy Story, is it? Where they just pick on the worst film out of the entire quadrilogy or whatever. I'm hoping that pinball manufacturers have learned that that's a bad idea from Toy Story 4. so yeah let's it's a big IP I hope Stern do it justice I mean I kind of feel for the designers of some of these big IPs because if they get it wrong they become you know they become I know that they absolutely I suppose have to find the balance between getting approval from the licensor and obviously they've got their bill of materials they have to build within a certain price bracket so they can't always do what they imagine i imagine so it is about definitely a difficult challenge um i just hope that given the title and the respect that that license needs they need to throw everything they can at it yeah i mean i think it'll be a big you know the other big license that everyone talks about is back to the future yeah that that one as i said to you i think i think honestly honestly right now if that was an elliott 20 as in twenty thousand dollars or twenty thousand pounds it would still sell yeah entirely i think you're right mate i think i think you're absolutely spot on i mean i know not that i want them to do that mind you because not everybody can afford to put that kind of cheese down for a game but i think personally yeah given given that license and it's and it's desirability by many people i think you'll get you know i think you get a few people selling two games to buy one um yes you know yeah see that happening we've seen it with with other games but yeah I mean I think Jaws is a big warm up for that and depending on what they do with that people will be thinking Is that your opinion then it will be Jaws and then maybe Back to the Future in the near future? I'm kind of pretty confident right now so does Stern and more importantly Kapow who's Stern's great friends over in Las Vegas do they want to do a Back to the Future no doubt so Joe Kamenikov great guy, friend of mine he absolutely wants to do Back to the Future however he only wants to do Back to the Future that's right he doesn't want to do some half-baked you know doesn't want to do a Data East Back to the Future where Michael Fox doesn't have his likeness on the back he doesn't want to do Willy Wonka where they don't even have Candyman in the bloody game it's the biggest song right he wants to do it right and I think he will wait to get all the assets, to get everything it needs to have before he builds another pinball machine. And I think it's a game that's got Elwin written all over it.
    70:24
    Yeah, true. And who knows? But also I think it's a challenging... Everyone's got their own mental model of Back to the Future It's such a big franchise It's a brave person That takes it on All I hope is that you get to hear Power of love You get to shoot a ball at 66 Miles an hour And the game flows well And it's fun to play 88, but I'll let you off on that I couldn't remember I thought it was 66 There'll be so many people going 88 88, Neil, come on. It was my thing. I remember going to see it in the 80s. It was so long ago. But, yeah, look, I'll be honest. Jaws is a bigger theme for me than Back to the Future, which a lot of people go with.
    71:22
    You know, Back to the Future is a great movie. Well you prefer Jaws over Back to the Future Oh for sure 100 100 Okay I mean don get me wrong I like Back to the Future It a great movie but for me I just... I think, I mean, argument-wise, I'd say there's more you can do with Back to the Future than you could in Jaws. Oh, yeah, I agree. 100%. I totally agree. Because you've got, obviously, the past and then you've got, obviously, the number three with the Wild West. You've got, obviously, the future in number two. so I feel like yeah it's funny actually, do you know what would be really weird maybe they could do this, it would be more funny actually if Back to the Future was first and then do you remember Michael J. Fox in the second film, he ran in front of the cinema with the Jaws that came out 3D that would be the easter egg to say hey Jaws is coming, yeah no absolutely yeah I don't know I mean I like, don't know, I love the Back to the Future movies but for me Jaws was just more, I don't know But it freaked me out more when I was a kid, I guess.
    72:25
    And the other thing is I'm a massive Huey Lewis and the News fan. They're a big band. And, you know, Power of Love is just one of those iconic soundtracks that, you know, when we hear it, everyone's singing it, right? So I wish, if whoever has got it, good luck to them. So let's move on, conscious of time. Let's just see what's going on in the UK. so obviously we have the monster show that is UK Pinfest up in Daventry from the 25th it kind of starts Thursday night if you're up there Thursday night to point that out as well there's a lot of people I think who obviously donate the machines to the venue and Phil who's the organiser he said a lot of people will be down there on Thursday night beginning obviously to fill the event and get everything ready I myself will be down there on Friday I was actually asked if I was going to come down on Thursday Phil does a stellar job organising what he does it's a large event with lots of things going on, you've got ladies tournament, you've got the main tournament play for everyone else, you've got a classic tournament and then of course you've got the main venue which has got about 100 machines all on free play throughout the weekend, Friday through to Sunday and the games they've got on offer are just everyone's machines, I have to specify or stress even, these are contributions from the community. Yeah, I mean, that is the thing that's amazing about it, is everyone loads up a van and brings a ton of games. Exactly. I've got some homework for you, Scott. At the event, there's going to be a Quicksilver and a Stargazer. Okay. You must play both of them. They're both Stern Classics. I've got them in the club, so you've got to play both of them. Come back and give me your view on them. Okay, I will do. There's some other games. There'll be a big Lebowski there. Now, I'd say It's an interesting game But we had won the club And it's quite fragile If it lasts the whole day It'll be great But play that game early Would be my advice Just based on what's there Actually I wanted to have a look Let me just bring up the list of games Scooby Doo is going to be there That for me was Again that was donated through Pinball Heaven Again very much appreciate that's going to be at the show.
    74:47
    For me, at least, again, I know it's another wide body, Neil, and you're not a big fan of wide bodies, but I think I'd like to try it. Definitely, it's on my list to go out and play. Well, it's kind of weird because it isn't really a wide body.
    75:01
    How would you say it's not a wide body, then? Is that because you think the playfield's more narrow because it's designed that way? There is no question about it, right? So, I mean, again, it'd be interesting to get your take on it once you've played it, but one side of the playfield's got this thing on it that makes it smaller and it's only the top that's really wide body and actually i think it works quite well in that mode but the geometry would maybe allow for faster play then oh definitely the play is absolutely faster and the one thing about the game is it's got loads of u-turns in it right and my take on on that is that basically it makes the game a bit faster but i also find that the u-turns come back to flipper so I mean I played it for about TPF I played it I don't know I think for about an hour and ten minutes on ball one on ball one? yeah and then there's a video of Carl DeAngelo playing it for like three hours then the game crashed or something it is not the hardest game why is that then? is it because the shots are easy or is it because the game doesn't really open itself up to drain what is yeah they've just made the they've just made the ball come back nicely to flipper a lot um okay and also on on one side i want to say the left side they've got this weird drop target set up that makes it hard to lose the ball um and you know blessing and a curse isn't it i mean like some games i absolutely like walking dead there's a great example right you hit the bank of targets on that side and it's like roll the dice are you going to drain today it's um i think i don't know some games it's like elvira again when it comes out of the pop bumpers that's house of horrors this is it can very much be a very risky maneuver it can sometimes just go straight down the middle um i don't know i like a game personally it plays fair but maybe that's too fair then yeah i mean let me call out a few other games i would recommend people play um so let's go so definitely robocop is such a good game and rob yeah he's bringing that one it's a beautiful copy of it um absolutely amazing game there's also a funny games coming from the club so diane and and james um from majestic are bringing up it's it's it's not really a pinball machine it's more of a it's more of a kind of miniature um 10 pin bowling it's a lot of fun especially a few beers and some dollars another amazing game right this is another one on the list mystery castle um this is a very very rare alvin g game it's got amazing music and some really cool dmd graphics i absolutely love it and what else have we got here you see magic girl's gonna be there magic girl yeah and and jim and he and the guys did a great job of making that work but i mean i'm not going to say anything about it play it and tell me what you think right um yeah i mean i'm a big fan of the puppetry games to be honest with you so i'll have to see how it plays it's um i want to say something but i'm gonna resist um so i noticed you're taking up lord of the rings which is that the nice lord of the rings that you're taking up yeah yeah it's holly's one so my wife basically restored this one i did i tried to keep away from it and said to her this this is yours you do it you do all the restoration work you strip it well so i've seen it um it's pretty beautiful actually um one other thing we wanted to mention um and if you look at our facebook page uh the great best pinball podcast holly's going to upload some pictures of a remake that you're doing scott yes yeah completely you know what she's going to kill me i haven't even mentioned it i mean we we were going to probably talk about this but i suppose I'll give two minutes if you will yeah short time but basically I'm we're doing a re-theme of a game um so the game in question is Johnny Mnemonic um we'll be releasing a teaser trailer shortly uh which will basically give you an idea of what that is going to look like along with with the artwork but just bear in mind this is a complete re-theme that we're looking at um so this means that we're doing music call outs uh animations play field plastics ramps even the ramps are being replaced um it's it's definitely something i've stretched myself for i'm not gonna lie i i felt like we wanted to take it to the next step so we would like you know thankfully i've saved a lot of money by pinching a lot of my my wife's skill set in in doing a lot of the drawings so We've taken scans of the play field, and she's done a stellar job so far. I'd say of the pictures I've seen it, it'll just blow your mind. So I was going to upload a couple of teaser pictures to our Facebook page.
    80:06
    It is, and it's still early days. I think still things can change. Absolutely. We're definitely in early steps with it. I'd say, you know, a lot of the stuff we've done already. So we've built the back glass. We've done the cabinet art. That's all been sent off. that's all been printed off um what else we we've done the playfield has said it's halfway through production i've sent off the playfield that went to australia a few a few months ago actually um and the guy's just waiting for us to finish the artwork so he can then begin the printing process let me tell you no expense has been spared on this it's a very expensive project i'm not gonna lie but i have to say when it when it's finished uh i think we're gonna see something very special as my take yeah i mean one advantage as well and i will point this out is the fact that we're going down the custom ramp option because that people may not know this but the ramps are basically unobtainable you can kind of get the left in the middle but the right side you cannot get it you can get it used and that's basically it and and unfortunately it's a george gomez design he likes his 90 degree bends and it's being plastic in its original state um it just gets hammered and it cracks and unfortunately that's what happened with mine i tried my best to source them in the end i've been talking through with someone and we're making metal wire forms instead to replace them so it might be useful for other people down the line who kind of want to get a more robust option out of a johnny mnemonic rather than just saying you know we're going to go with scott's reef theme it'd be more like okay we can use the ramps yeah i mean yeah just i mean look have a look at it, give us your views something to be very excited about and my hats off to Scott and Holly who really have you know it's easy to say I'm going to build a pinball machine or I'm going to do a re-theme but and it's easy to do it badly you know and what I can see is something that's been really well thought out, I'm excited about it I might even help you with some of the codes now that I know what I'm doing. I always appreciate any help I can get. I know how to write code, I just don't know how to write code for pinball machines, but I'd definitely be up for having a go at it.
    82:15
    So, yeah, a couple of other games that you should definitely try. Now, I am really disappointed that Weird Al's not going to be there, because everyone asks, you know, hey Neil, what do you think of P3? Yeah. I like the P3 games, but they're not pinball.
    82:32
    I think they're different, right? And I don't mind different. No, me either. I would love to have tried one, because I see it all the time. I watch a Twitch stream and they say, oh yeah, you've got to try this game called Heist. Yeah, Heist is great. Weird Al's funny.
    82:48
    Actually, Lexi Lexpeed is pretty good. Two players. It's definitely something very different. And they've done a lot to make it feel more like pinball, but I like to think of it as a special thing. The minute I compare it to pinball, I kind of start looking for things that aren't relevant. You know, like there's no plunge. the plunge comes from anywhere but that's because it's not pinball it's it's using certain aspects of pinball but it's a new kind of i don't know i don't want to call it pinball 2.0 but it's it's just different and the only way to to describe it is for you to go play it it's like you know star trek 4 is it star trek 4 where um mccoy asks spock about death and spock says the only way i could talk to you about death is if you were to die it's kind of like that yeah yeah you've got have played it to be able to talk about it. So I'm disappointed that it's not going to be there. Hopefully next time we'll get one there.
    83:43
    A couple of other games that I would encourage you to play. Ultraman. So Jim is bringing Ultraman. Really encourage you to play that because it's terrible.
    83:56
    I've heard good things about Halloween. Is Ultraman, because it's the same layout, is it just the code's not as good? What is that then? I just think the design of the game is not where it needs to be. And code can do so much, but they've got the design of the game not right. I mean, again, but look, some people love it. Julian, my old buddy down here, he's got Halloween, he loves it.
    84:26
    You know, take your own view of it. Yeah, I'm going to go in with open eyes, I mean, just see what it's like, just be open-minded about it. I think the great thing, as I say, about Pinfest is that you're going to be able to try games from pretty much any era.
    84:39
    It's going to be busy. My suggestion will be try and get there early if you can and play things early on. There's definitely advantages to that. I mean, I'm actually even thinking about getting some calling units fitted to my flippers for Lord of the Rings because I'm worried about flipper fade over the duration of the weekend. Yeah, I think – have you got the bigger flippers on Lord of the Rings already? Yes, I do, yeah. Yeah, I think you'll be okay on that. I think the early Lord of the Rings came with slightly smaller ones than the upgraded one I think you'll be fine with the upgraded ones but yeah I'd definitely keep an eye on it and then in the competitions Game of Thrones and the main that'll be interesting Godzilla, Beetle give me your view on that, why do you think that's going to be difficult then it's a long playing game oh ok are we talking Scooby Doo long play or is it It's probably not as bad as Scooby-Doo It's probably more tougher But it's a game that There's so many different paths on it Could be challenging Maybe they could just whack the tilt up I predict that's what they'll do James Bond So you definitely want to learn How to do the Bond girl multipliers if you want to get points on that Black Jack, that was there before I really enjoyed playing that I wouldn't mind buying one of them You've just got to hit the 21 but unfortunately it's a one-shot game really. Iron Man it's a really tough game, very flowy F-14 I just hate NASCAR, that's a rare game and it's got this interesting loop on it as well that if you can get a chance you should play it. Foo Fighters actually there might be a code update Thursday I think I'm hearing there's a code update. We should point out as well these tournament games you don't have to be a professional to go play it If you want to go to try these games out, because they're in the tournament lineup, the entry I think is £10. It's not much on top of the ticket. I would encourage everyone to put a ticket in for the tournament, because it's a lot of fun. Forget the top players. You're never going to beat them. You and your buddies, for a few beers, have a laugh.
    86:53
    Actually, you'll probably end up putting two or three tickets in, because it is addictive. they've also got another great game in there, Metallica, Lime and Sheets game, phenomenal game, I recommend that, and then very quickly through the classics, I've mentioned Quicksilver, you've got to go play that, there's a Flash Gordon there and a Galaxy there, so Galaxy is another string classic, Flash Gordon is one of the best games of all time. It's definitely a sort of to pin, every time I see it come up, everybody wants one. I'd definitely do that, and then around, There's a charity machines that Chris Brim Brings he's got a few Fighters he's got a bond and Godzilla All premiums definitely Go play them he's got a tron LE of quite a rare Game so I would check them out and then As I said Magic Girl The Big Lebowski and Scooby Doo Will be in the lobby definitely worth Going for them There's also some EM games now There was a time in my life Where I would walk past EM games but no longer the electrical mechanicals. They are superb fun. I definitely feel, Neil, you've definitely decided going back in the older eras. You seem to find much more enjoyment out of those. Well, I think it's a mix of them all. I mean, don't get me wrong, here in this room, there's not an old game in here now. In fact, the oldest game is I want to say X-Men. Believe it or not, that's the oldest game in here. I still like my moderns, but I like a mix.
    88:30
    EMs can be a lot of fun. Circus is a great game, and there's a Nautilus as well. I'd check that out. But, yeah, I mean, a lot of great games.
    88:42
    I probably wouldn't play Jokers, but Bow and Arrow, Matt's taken out from the club. It's a great game.
    88:51
    And what else is there? they're just Houdini. Everyone should go play that because you'll then agree with me on how hard it is. It's brutal. Isn't that the game where you've got a ball that literally just flies across the playfield and gets caught by a trunk or something? Yeah, it goes into like a... No, it's a... Yeah, there's a milk thing or something. I can't remember. It's a crazy mech when I think about it. I just found that the shots are so tight.
    89:19
    And there's a Ghostbusters Premium which I would go play because it's got these Magna slings. I actually think are cool.
    89:27
    They take a bit of tweaking the setup, right, but once done, it's great. Other things on, so Medway Pinball, I want to just make sure I get the dates right on this.
    89:40
    So Medway Pinball have got an event. Is it their birthday? I think, is it their first or second birthday? I can't remember.
    89:50
    Let me just find it. It's the anniversary So It's their first anniversary And it's on I can't find it I think it's the 20 I want to say the 20 Let me just get the calendar up Unfortunately I'm not going to be there Because I'm at Pinball at the Lake Sorry Pinball at the Lab in Los Angeles Which is another tournament I'm going to That's the IE Pinball guys run. I help them out with it. The 16th and 7th, no, it's the 23rd and 24th, sorry, of September.
    90:31
    Have a look on Pinball Info if you want to sign up. There is the, obviously, UK Open at the end of September. We're sold out except for ladies.
    90:42
    We've got Keith Elwin, the GOAT, is going to be there. He registered. He was the second last person to register. So, yeah, I'm really pleased about that. It's going to be great to see Keith. Then the first week of December, we have the Pinball Republic Monster Meet. It's our sixth birthday. It's going to be a big weekend of tournament play and fun and probably some stuff to eat. And then we've also put a tournament in just before the end of the year so you can avoid doing the things that you've avoided for three years whilst you're on holiday. we're calling it the new year fry up on the 28th and 29th it's a big we're running a tournament that will score a lot of what we call IFPA Whoppers it's a certified tournament and it will be worth 250% TGP which basically means compared to other pinball events you're getting two and a half times what you'd normally get and it's the last tournament of the year likely Is that sold out yet? Or is there still Loads of spaces If you go to our Pinball Republic Facebook page You'll get more details about it Or just ping me So it'll be a lot of fun And It's kind of Thursday and Friday It's that bit between New Year and Christmas You're either in the sales going mad Or you're fixing something That you want to fix that you've put off for years or if you're smart, you bail out of all of that and you go play pinball at Pinball Republic.
    92:23
    And then in the new year, on the 2nd of January, I haven't told my wife this yet, so I'm going to be shot, but 2nd of January I'm boarding a plane to Los Angeles for the Open World Championship at Indisc, of course. How did I forget that? But yeah, which they announced, and it will be hugely exciting. So busy, busy period. I think we're done, Scott. We are. We're one hour, 32 minutes. Look, we tried to keep it to an hour, everyone, all right? We maybe have divvied a little bit longer than we thought on some parts, but we've tried to keep to a certain time. You know, we've just done that. We've had kind of different feedbacks. People say it's too long. People say it's too short. I personally think 1 hour 15 1 hour 30 is okay 2 hours is definitely too long so by the time I stick the 1 minute 1 second intro on we'll be at 1.35 but Scott it's been a pleasure everyone I hope you have a great time up at Pinfest and we will see you in a month's time where we will talk about what happened and probably a preview of the UK open and a bit more on your re-theme yeah hopefully I'll have some more to reveal yeah your fear of magic should be done by then so we can definitely do a whole talking bit on that no doubt cool look if you want to give us feedback join us on Facebook we've got a Facebook group there just search for the Great British Pinball Podcast or ping me or Scott on Messenger we're We're kind of new to this We're learning as we go along But we're enjoying it Last event we had over 500 people Listen or watch Which blew both mine and Scott's mind away Definitely Great to see that It's great that people wanted to listen to it And folks I'm just going to end with one message You don't need to worry About the price of pinball You don't need to worry about the price of toppers. You don't need to worry what Stern are doing next week or what JGP are doing last week. Here's all you need to worry about. Press the start button, pull the plunger, and get the best score you can get. That's all you have to worry about. And when you're doing that, just enjoy it. Enjoy the moment. Watch that ball and put the rest of the world out of your mind. I'm Neil McRae.
    95:02
    I'm Scott. Thanks very much. Thanks, guys. Speak to you in a month. Thank you.