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SDTM: a pinball show Episode 27: This or That? (Dialed In vs Star Wars and more)

Straight Down the Middle·video·20m 26s·analyzed·Jul 25, 2017
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

SDTM hosts compare pinball machines and designers in subjective preference matchups.

Summary

Zach and Greg from Straight Down the Middle podcast conduct a series of "This or That" comparisons between pinball machines, discussing design preferences, gameplay mechanics, and aesthetic choices. Key matchups include Dialed In!! vs Star Wars, Houdini vs Star Wars, Lethal Weapon 3 vs Independence Day, Terminator 2 vs Terminator 3, Lord of the Rings vs Simpsons Pinball Party, Game of Thrones vs KISS, and designer comparisons between Steve Ritchie and John Popadiuk. The hosts explore themes of shot design, flow, aesthetics, code depth, and player preference across modern and classic pinball titles.

Key Claims

  • Dialed In!! is a better shooting game overall than Star Wars, with better incorporation of theme and gameplay variety

    medium confidence · Greg's opinion during Dialed In!! vs Star Wars comparison

  • Star Wars has more flow and chaos compared to Dialed In!!, with 40-time multipliers

    medium confidence · Zach's characterization of Star Wars gameplay

  • Houdini has superior theme appeal and gameplay compared to Star Wars at this point

    medium confidence · Greg's preference in Houdini vs Star Wars matchup

  • Simpsons Pinball Party is one of the deepest games ever coded, with multiple wizard modes including couch multiball

    medium confidence · Zach describing Simpsons depth and modes

  • KISS by Stern has been unfairly criticized for incomplete coding, similar to how Batman 66 was received at launch

    medium confidence · Greg's analysis of KISS coding perception vs actual functionality

  • Game of Game of Thrones (Pro) has an upper playfield that some players (like Greg) consider one of the best upper playfields of all time

    low confidence · Greg's subjective opinion on Game of Thrones upper playfield design

  • Steve Ritchie games follow a consistent layout formula, like ACDC having one recognizable song structure

    low confidence · Greg's opinion comparing Ritchie's design consistency to ACDC's musical style

  • John Popadiuk games like Cirqus Voltaire, Tales of Arabian Nights, and Theater of Magic show more creativity than Ritchie's designs

    low confidence · Zach's opinion during Ritchie vs Popadiuk designer comparison

Notable Quotes

  • “Star Wars is just complete chaos and flow. And 40-time multipliers.”

    Zach @ ~3:30 — Characterizes Star Wars as high-variance, chaotic gameplay with massive multiplier potential

  • “It's Pat Lawlor versus Steve Ritchie. Oh, this or that. This or... That might be good.”

    Greg @ ~5:00 — Spontaneously pivots to meta-comparison of legendary designers during machine comparison

  • “I buy Houdini I would like to buy a Houdini and a dialed in right now”

    Zach @ ~10:00 — Expresses preference for combining Houdini and Dialed In as an ideal collection pairing

  • “You can't get any deeper than Simpsons... how many times you got to it on Lord of the Rings... nobody's got to it”

    Zach @ ~25:00 — Argues Simpsons is deeper due to multiple accessible wizard modes vs Lord of the Rings' nearly unreachable final mode

  • “all the mouthing about KISS not being coded has really hindered people from getting that game... it's coded enough”

    Greg @ ~36:00 — Defends KISS against community criticism about incomplete coding, argues perception problem affects sales

  • “You can tell a Richie game. You know what I'm saying? Yes, you can. ACDC's fantastic... ACDC has one song... No, they can kiss my ass.”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~47:00 — Humorous comparison of Ritchie's recognizable design signature to ACDC's musical brand

  • “Steve Ritchie has one layout... the Rams don't do anything that's creative... But I still like them. They're fun games.”

    Zach @ ~48:00 — Acknowledges Ritchie's formulaic approach while defending playability and fun factor

  • “Papaduke has games that I enjoy much more than any Steve Ritchie game... he was a mad genius, but he was creative”

    Zach @ ~46:00 — Expresses strong preference for Popadiuk's innovation and creativity over Ritchie's consistency

Entities

Zach SharpepersonGregpersonSteve RitchiepersonPat LawlorpersonJohn PopadiukpersonKeith P. JohnsonpersonDialed In!game

Signals

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Hosts discuss trade-off between flow-based gameplay (Star Wars, Star Trek style) versus shot-based shooting games (Dialed In), indicating ongoing design philosophy debate in community

    high · Zach contrasts Dialed In as 'not a flow game' but 'good shooter' vs Star Wars as 'complete chaos and flow'; discussion frames this as key differentiator in player preference

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Significant reframing of KISS criticism: hosts argue negative perception about incomplete coding unfairly steers buyers away, comparing to Batman 66 launch reception

    medium · Greg: 'all the mouthing about KISS not being coded has really hindered people from getting that game... it's coded enough... it steers people away like it's just a non-functioning game almost like when Batman came out'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Hosts debate whether Steve Ritchie's recognizable, consistent game formula (compared to ACDC's signature sound) represents strength (fun, reliable) or limitation (formulaic, uncreative) versus John Popadiuk's novelty-driven approach

    high · Extended debate on Ritchie vs Popadiuk with Zach praising Popadiuk's creativity (Circus Voltaire, Theater of Magic) while acknowledging Ritchie games are 'fun' but predictable in layout

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Hosts compare accessibility of wizard modes: Simpsons has multiple reachable wizard modes creating perception of depth, while Lord of the Rings has nearly impossible final mode, affecting how 'deep' a game feels to players

    medium · Zach: 'You can't get any deeper than Simpsons' vs discussion that nobody has reached Lord of the Rings final mode, suggesting accessibility affects perceived depth

  • $

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.061

0:00
You're headed off with a bumper now Straight down the middle again Middle again You had a fling with a fling shot You're rolling out the island again I tried to cradle you with my flipper It was all in vain Hi friends, this is Zach And this is Greg And you probably cannot hear us with our microphones But if you can, that means we've made a significant upgrade And there's no echo Because we're not in Zach's garage This is the NPR version of This or That, straight down the middle, a pinball show. How are you, Greg? I'm doing wonderful. All right, we've got to cut that bullshit down. That's not going to work. We're louder than that. So this is our This or That week. We're going to bring up two pinball machines, or this versus that. And you and I are going to decide which one we would want. Would we want this or that? You see that? That was good. Like David Letterman. I miss Letterman I do too alright Greg so everybody on Pinside has been talking about and it's premature I get it agreed but do you go Dialed In or Star Wars I'm going Dialed In why I just like the incorporation of the theme no I just like all the I like everything it's got really good shots I like the shots it's not really a flow game whoa whoa whoa what do you mean it's not a flow game I'm saying it's not particularly a flow game like Star Trek it's got flow but it's a good shot game too it's a good shooter game might it have better flow than Star Wars I don't think so I don't think it's got better flow than Star Wars but I think it's got more going on you remember hitting that side ramp it's got flow but it's also a shooters game it's also got good shots how smooth is it it's very smooth and that's what I go with To me, Star Wars is just complete chaos and flow. And 40-time multipliers. Yeah, at this point. At this point. I may change my mind. I would. And we don't know what the premium LE, but we can only assume it plays just like the pro, but it's got a Hyperloop thing like NASCAR or like Supercharger on getaway. Agreed. Yeah, dialed in. Come on. Agreed. Come on. Would you rather have a dialed in standard or a Star Wars LE? we're not doing prices we're doing you get it for the worth I'm still going with Dialed In I don't think there's still enough going on between the pro model the premium or the LE on Star Wars I'm all in on Dialed In it's not even close what I would miss though I love the Star Wars John Williams score and I can't say light show because Dialed In has got a better light show kind of thing.
Star Wars
game
Houdinigame
Terminator 2game
Terminator 3game
Last Action Herogame
Lethal Weapon 3game
Independence Daygame
Lord of the Ringsgame
Simpsons Pinball Partygame
Game of Thronesgame
KISSgame
Cirqus Voltairegame
Theatre of Magicgame
Straight Down the Middleorganization
Pinsideorganization
Stern Pinballcompany

market_signal: Discussion of cabinet art strategy: classic pinball machines emphasized large logo/name on cabinet side vs modern Stern approach using only artwork. Community divided on preferences (iconic logos vs artistic presentation)

medium · Greg raises question about preference for old-style named logos (Lost World, Jurassic Park, Ghostbusters) vs Stern's art-only approach; hosts indicate this matters to collectors even if machines are sandwiched

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Game of Thrones upper playfield in Premium/LE versions cited as among best upper playfield implementations, contrasting with other manufacturers' attempts

    low · Greg: 'It's one of my favorite upper playfields, I think, of all time' and 'It gives you a lot to do. I love that.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Dialed In vs Star Wars comparison framed as 'premature' but actively discussed on Pinside forum, indicating community eagerness to compare upcoming/recent releases before full assessment period

    medium · Zach: 'everybody on Pinside has been talking about and it's it's premature I get it agreed'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Hosts note that Star Wars Pro/Premium/LE variants play similarly (Pro base) with additions like Hyperloop on higher tiers, suggesting manufacturers adding features (similar to NASCAR/Getaway) rather than fundamental gameplay changes across models

    medium · Zach: 'we can only assume it plays just like the pro, but it's got a Hyperloop thing like NASCAR or like Supercharger on getaway'

  • ?

    content_signal: SDTM planning to introduce competitive voting element where community votes on which host was 'more correct' on preferences, plus expanding to designer/coder comparisons to deepen content

    high · Hosts discuss plans for Facebook thumbs-up voting, comparing audience agreement with picks, and intention to include more designer matchups (Ritchie vs Popadiuk example)

  • ?

    venue_signal: SDTM hosts planning to attend Chicago Expo and Grand Ole Game Room Expo in Nashville, potentially doing seminars/panels

    high · Zach and Greg mention attending Chicago Expo and Grand Ole Game Room Expo in Nashville, discussing possible seminar or panel participation

  • ?

    comparative_analysis: Terminator 2 cabinet aesthetics praised as superior to Terminator 3, with T3 criticized for Arnold's head toy and back glass design despite slightly improved gameplay

    medium · Greg: 'T2 is a much better looking pin... Terminator 3 is a pretty hideous looking pin... I hate Arnold's head back there... T2 feels like a better shooter'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Hosts emphasize importance of theme integration and aesthetic cohesion, with Dialed In praised for good theme incorporation and Houdini's steampunk aesthetic pulling players in more than Star Wars

    medium · Greg on Dialed In: 'I just like the incorporation of the the theme'; Zach on Houdini: 'something about Houdini and that whole theme like it just it really pulls me in'

    • 3:24
    And... Oh, you think Daldan's light show is better? Yeah. I think Sound and Lights is again where Star Wars stands out.
    3:35
    I just think it's a... I think Daldan's a better shooting game. Just better overall. Better shooting game than Richie. Better overall game. It's Pat Lawler versus Steve Richie. Oh, this or that. This or... That might be good. That is. You're going to take Pat Lawler games or you're going to take Steve Rich as a designer. Which one? This or that? Overall, I... Let's stop talking. It's Pat Lawler. Let's move on. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Yep. That's silly. Alright, so speaking of Star Wars, with what we know now, we'll throw, we'll make a nice little, one of those heated topic thread. Star Wars or Houdini? Ah, man. Woo! At this point, I'm going with Houdini. And, man, I know there's a lot of Star Wars fans out there, and I like Star Wars. I'm a big movie fan but yeah man something about Houdini and that whole theme like it just it really pulls me in I think the gameplay is good yeah talk about good sound yeah good steampunk kinda yeah I mean there's not a lot going on on that LCD there's not a lot going on on that LCD where's your coffee there it's fine you know I like it it's groovy breath I like that if these groovy yeah give me Houdini yeah you do need Star Wars I'll probably buy one but I mean I was if I had the money and I had to pick between those two right now and then it's a full honesty just my opinion I buy Houdini I would like to buy a Houdini and a dialed in right now mm that be a hell of a killer combo wouldn it Yeah it really would I think it would This and that Yeah This and that All right. So this is the one that Greg posed because he's trying to figure this out.
    5:20
    Go ahead, Greg. Right here. So I was caught in a dilemma. Shit or turd. A little while ago.
    5:31
    And I was trying to decide between a Lethal Weapon 3, highly underrated game, and an Independence Day by Sega.
    5:43
    Now, both are moderately priced games. Moderately priced, compared to EMs. Affordable in my book, which was the big swear between the two. Yes. But what would you go with? You got Independence Day. It's got some good flow. Not shit to shoot at. Okay. But good flow. Three ramps. That's pretty cool. And then you've got Lethal Weapon 3. It's got some nice stuff to shoot at. Some cool wireform ramps. I've played a lot of Lethal Weapon 3. I will admit that I have not played much Independence Day. I've played them in a show or two. So I've played them there. I don't know anybody that owns one. No, I don't either. That's my problem. That play field is hideous. It is very terrible. But it's got Jeff Goldblum. It does have Jeff Goldblum. So I'm going with Jeff Goldblum. I'm going Lethal Weapon 3 I like the Independence Day theme obviously better I love Jeff Goldblum but again Bill Pullman is it Bill Pullman am I right?
    6:42
    yeah Bill Pullman is the president Bill Pullman and granted Mel Gibson is a little creepy on the back glass in the play field but I actually think aesthetically Lethal Weapon 3 is a much better looking pin especially down by the drain where the wire goes right into Danny Glover's crotch Yeah, fantastic. Danny Glover, I love him. So my pick would be Lethal Weapon 3, and probably by the time you're watching this, I'm hopefully going to have one. You won't. I'm going Independence Day 4 because I could give two shits less. All right, let's move on to... Pin Snob. That's what we need to start, Pin Snob of the Week. They're right there. I'm going to get you one of those shirts. Fuck our monster shirts. You're getting a pin snob shirt. Pin snob shirt. You wonder why people hate you. Speaking of two more turds that I don't like, Terminator 2 versus Terminator 3, both Steve Ritchie games.
    7:41
    One is the classic Terminator 2, one of the first DMDs ever programmed, sold a bajillion of them. Yes. T3 was done by Stern, later on by Ritchie as well. three what makes it unique three ramps to flipper game which you don't see that very often at all wire forms and it pays tribute to the old t2 with some of the modes and different things you got wire forms you've got a cool mini back box RPG get canning game yeah you've got call outs from Arnold on both of them shoot here or here shoot anywhere I love that on T3 shoot here on my pick this is a stupid dilemma to even be in that is a tough one T2 is a much better looking pin in a sense I guess I gotta go with T3 on this prices are about the same so you really can't factor that in too much T2 might be a little bit more solid of a game But Man, T3 is just a slightly Improved T2 Many would say that I would go T2 I think the cabinet on T2 is nice I think the back glass on T2 Is nice I think the playfield on T2 is nice I think Terminator 3 is a pretty hideous looking pin It is I don't like Arnold's head back there That's what kind of throws me on the playfield That's one of the only things I like Actually, the toy head. Yeah, it looks cool. I hate it. I don't like the back glass. Yeah. What do you think about the game? T2 feels like a better shooter. It just feels like a better shooter. There's just not shit to do on that game. No, there's not. There's really nothing. And T3 is a little better. Yeah. But just still not a deep, deep game. Wouldn't be a keeper for me. But there's still more to do. I would go T2 because he says, Hasta la vista, baby. And you don't get that in T3. Uh, eh. Really? Let's throw another one. Austin LaVista is what sold you on it? Yeah, sure. I don't want either one of them. Let's talk about another on the game, Last Action Hero or T2 or T3.
    10:00
    I actually have a playing game. We're talking Data East here over Williams or Strat. I'd go with Last Action Hero. I would too. There just a lot to do in that game Except that annoying ass sound right up the middle with the police chief It is a super ugly ass game really Last Action Hero I okay with that actually But there's a lot more to do. It's not a super deep game, but there's some good stuff to shoot at. It's fun, and the cranes are neat. The cranes are neat. So there we go. Last Action Hero. The magnets are neat, too. There's a lot in there. Yeah, there's a lot in there. It's a good bang for your buck game, honestly. Yeah. All right. Let's talk two great pins. Okay. All these turds. this in Lord of the Rings or that in Simpsons Pinball Party both Keith Johnson coded games that's tough that is really tough I like the Simpsons play field better I like their cabinet better not wild about the super long ball times both kind of long ball times man you know this is kind of blasphemy but just a lot based on aesthetics, I'm going to have to go with Simpsons. I don't think it's Blast. I mean, I think that's a good call for a lot of people. Yeah, but I think Simpsons just feels better at this point. It's pretty. It's nice getting to the couch multi-ball, getting to the super-duper wizard mode, multiple wizard modes. Super freaking deep. Like, you can't get any deeper than Simpsons. But so is Lord of the Rings. Yeah, but... Yeah, you can. Lord of the Rings. yeah but when so how close have you come to beating Simpsons nobody yeah okay but I think they're both pretty impossible to get to that last wizard mode yeah how many times you got to it on Lord of the Rings nobody's no hell no I haven't gotten close not even not even itched it I don't know I'll go Lord of the Rings just because I like the theme better. I like the dark ambience of that game. I do like it. I like the golds in it.
    12:05
    And I like the quest. So for The Simpsons, you're playing different modes and stuff, and believe me, Simpsons I think is an A game. I think it's fantastic. I think it's a little lighthearted. That's what, a little more lighthearted. I like The Lord of the Rings, the quest that you're going through. And I like Jack Puck. Boom! Yeah. That's my favorite. I like both. All right. Let's move on to more contemporary, or last this or that, or I think one of our last ones. Game of Thrones by Stern, or Kiss by Stern. I like the old Game of Thrones. The reason I go with Game of Thrones is just... You love multipliers. No, I don't love multipliers. $289 bajillion. But I do like the depth of that game. I think once you understand the rules, I think it's hard to understand. It's a great coded game. It really is. Yeah, but once you get used to it, I like the shots. Blackwater Motivo. Now I'm going to say this on pro because I like shooting a pro better than what I do, the premiums and stuff. No, I don't. Really? I don't care much for that upper play field. I like the premium better. I like the premium better than the LA. But I like doing away with that upper play field. I love that upper play field. Really? I love it. But I think it shoots good. It gives you a lot to do. It's one of my favorite upper play fields, I think, of all time. Yeah, I mean, it's not bad with the Dragons. It's not bad. Yeah, there's shots that you have to hit up there. I love that. But here's with Kiss. I think that Game of Thrones shoots better. I think it's a... I like the shots better. But KISS is so damn pretty. It's a beautiful, and it sounds so good. It's one of the most beautiful games, honestly, I think there is. And I'm not a KISS fan, but again, it is still one of the most beautiful games.
    13:34
    It's a toss-up, but I think that if I was going to get it to play, because I'm more serious about playing now, I would have to go with Throne. Okay. I don't think you can go wrong with either one. I think both of them are very good games.
    13:46
    I think all the mouthing about KISS not being coded has really hindered people from getting that game. but it's coded enough i think you can still enjoy i've dove down pretty deep into kiss yeah and it's a basic rule set yeah and it's not that it's not fully coded there's just a couple things that are included that don't make sense without it being coded yeah like the different cities they just don't make much sense the the songs you're not really you're just picking a jukebox song yeah it's not really doing much but there's plenty to do in kiss yeah it's really i think all the talk and everything about KISS not being coded, it steers people away like it's just a non-functioning game almost like when Batman came out. It's just like Batman 66 when it came out. There was just so much missing. And I think that's what steered people away from actually buying the game. I think there's so much missing in Game of Thrones Pro.
    14:37
    Really? Again, Richie, I'm not interacting with anything. No, you're not interacting. I do like the dragon how it throws that ball back at you. Yeah, it's just, I mean, no, there's not a lot. It's a solid game, good game, but I'm going to go Kiss on this one, actually. I wouldn't blame you. I like Kiss, and I'll go Premium. I'll take a Premium Renelle Kiss. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know the one thing that steers me off from a Pro Kiss? I don't like the cabinet on a Kiss Pro. They all kind of look the same. Do they? Yeah, they all kind of look the same. I thought it was a little different than the black. Yeah, but I don't know, the black, like in the space kind of thing. Yeah, I can't recall. But what I like about the Premium LE is you get the light show, Oh and you got the love gun how the ball gravitates on the back wall That good And he rocks back and forth Let me ask you this is sort of on somebody else list or that Do you like the old style pinball machines with the name, like Lost World, Jurassic Park, everything on the side? Or do you like the way that Stern's doing stuff where there's no logo? It's just art. It's all picture. I know that that shouldn't matter because it's sandwiched between two machines. I think it would just be a case by case. Like, I have Jurassic Park. That is an iconic logo. I want that. Yeah, well, but, yeah, that's its logo. You know what I mean? But, I mean, but listen, I mean, so Ghostbusters is an iconic logo. Like, you can't plaster that on the side somewhere? That is true. See what I'm saying? I mean. I like the art. Give me the art. I don't. I like the name. I like the story. I like the name. I like the art. I want the Ecto. I want the Millennium Falcon. I don't want just to say Star Wars. I want to say Star Wars, but I want art, but I want to say its stuff, too. Don't know why. Sorry, just figuring to throw it out there. Don't know if it's important. Hey, if it's important to you all, let us know. I'm kind of curious about that. Let us know your this or that's too. Because me and Greg on these this or that's, we kind of like to compete. Like, will more people agree with your picks or my picks? Or will they think we're dumb for both agreeing on them? On our Facebook, we need to do like a thumbs up comment thing. Like on who's more correct on certain things. And the last this or that's, what I want to start throwing in on our this or that's, is designers and coders. So for this, our first this or that designer choice, well actually it was Pat Lawler or Steve Ritchie. Yeah, we actually threw that in. Steve Ritchie or John Papaduke? I'm going to go with Ritchie. You're going with Ritchie? Yeah. Because? He just enjoys games better.
    16:57
    They play great. Yeah, I like the way they shoot. Ritchie's games play great. I'm going to go with Papaduke. Really? Yeah. Really? Because Papaduke has games that I enjoy much more than any Steve Ritchie game. He makes, and he's creative. He was a mad genius, but he was creative. Circus Voltaire. Tales of Arabian Nights. I mean, they're all classics, but they're not how I'm on it. Really? World Cup Soccer. Everybody loves World Cup Soccer, but me. Yeah. I like it, but. I mean, come on.
    17:31
    There's stuff in there, theater of magic. There's creativity. There's stuff that hadn't been done before. I feel like I'm not hating on Richie, but I'm hating on Richie.
    17:43
    It's the same game. Oh, it is the same game. You can tell his game. It's like an ACDC song. Frickin' Snorefest. You know when an ACDC song comes on. Damn straight. Do what? People say ACDC has one song, yeah. No, they can kiss my ass. Steve Richie has one layout. Yeah, but it's like... That's why they're a match made in heaven. You can tell a Richie game. You know what I'm saying? Yes, you can. ACDC's fantastic. Because the Rams don't do anything that's creative. No. But I still like them. They're fun games. You love them too. You love every one of them.
    18:14
    Which Richie game do I own? Like in my Keeper? Who the hell knows what you own at one given time? I know. I move them around.
    18:23
    I don't think. There's not one Richie game that I love, love, love. But there's not one that you really hate. They're all fun. T2.
    18:31
    I still like T2. T3. Still like T3. I'll have a list. There was some rough stuff. There was some stuff that I hate, Richie. But at the time, T2 was amazing. Yeah. Still is. So you've got to give them that. All right, guys. That's This or That with Zach and Greg from Straight Down the Middle. Check out other SDTN videos. We've got t-shirts still available. Yep. We're going to some of the upcoming shows, replays, Chicago Expo, hopefully more than that. Grand Ole Game Room Expo down in Nashville. We might do a seminar or a panel or something for that. panel also check out larry at flipping out pinball for all your uh pinball purchases and pin stadium lights for all of your lighting purposes your aftermarket lighting yes a fantastic product fantastic price yeah so subscribe everything to help support us so we can keep this bad trucker rolling yeah keep rolling rolling life's a garden dig it right that's a that's a rolling song. I don't know. Roll it! Roll it! I didn't want to do that one, but that's the only one that's come to my mind. Alright, see you guys. You hit it off with a bumper now you're straight down the metal again. Metal again. You had a fling with a fling shot you're rolling out the alley dog again. Uh.
    19:56
    Good lord. Making a little sweet, sweet love. That's the sound of you sucking the life out of me.