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EP 24 - Transforming Your Summer with a Sonic Boom!

Flip n Out Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·34m 57s·analyzed·May 28, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Flip N Out discusses summer game releases: Transformers momentum, Sonic confirmed for June, and original theme design viability.

Summary

Flip N Out Pinball Podcast Episode 24 discusses upcoming game releases including Transformers (recently released, gaining traction), Sonic the Hedgehog (Jersey Jack Pinball, expected June launch with confirmed Arcade edition at ~$9,999), and Tales of the Arabian Nights remake (Toten). Hosts debate seasonal game release timing, designer/code quality impacts on game reception, the challenge of creating successful original-themed games, and Jersey Jack's shift to unlimited Collector's Editions for Harry Potter that continues into Sonic.

Key Claims

  • Transformers came out last week and is gaining traction with good sales and positive code/asset feedback

    high confidence · Greg Bone and Ken Cromwell discussing Transformers as recent release; Ken notes 'it's getting legs, I think, which is nice.'

  • Sonic the Hedgehog by Jersey Jack Pinball will be released within 1-3 weeks from May 28th recording date, with an Arcade edition at ~$9,999

    high confidence · Ken states 'we should be seeing that game in the next one to three, four weeks, a hundred percent' and confirms Arcade version through 'poor Zack' who was contacted by JJP

  • Jersey Jack Pinball is continuing unlimited Collector's Edition builds for Sonic as they did with Harry Potter

    medium confidence · Greg speculates based on Harry Potter pattern: 'If they do the same thing with Sonic, anybody should probably be able to get a CE' with an 8-month fulfillment window observed

  • Summer is traditionally a slower period for pinball game sales due to vacation season and outdoor activities

    medium confidence · Ken explains: 'people are out on vacation. Kids are home from school. People are doing stuff outside' and calls May-June 'the last time before you get into the dead of summer'

  • Steve Ritchie designed Sonic the Hedgehog and Bill Grupp leads code programming for Jersey Jack Pinball

    high confidence · Greg states 'Steve Ritchie being back on another JJP game' and later: 'Bill Grupp over at JJP... he led the code. He led the programming team on that.'

  • Transformers code is well-evolved with solid core rules, comparable to Elizabeth Ash's previous work on Jaws

    high confidence · Ken notes 'the code is really well done' and compares positively to Jaws: 'she had a super solid core on Jaws as well'

  • The main criticism of Transformers is that Optimus Prime does not physically transform from truck to robot

    high confidence · Greg: 'The only real criticism I'm hearing right now about the game is the fact that Optimus Prime doesn't transform'

Notable Quotes

  • “We've had a lot of people come in after they settled in, kind of took a look at it a little more and thought about it... it's been hot this week again... it's getting legs, I think, which is nice.”

    Greg Bone @ ~8:00 — Describes Transformers' trajectory from mixed initial reception to growing positive momentum after hands-on play

  • “One, two. And then you got Mark Seiden. Who had his inaugural debut over there with Avatar. What's next on him? So he's that's going to be that's going to be interesting. You've got Harry Potter, Eric Minier, Banger, Son of the Hedgehog, Steve Ritchie.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~20:30 — Highlights Jersey Jack's impressive designer roster with Sonic as next release; note apparent transcription error 'Son of the Hedgehog' likely means 'Sonic the Hedgehog'

  • “Steve came into JJP with a theme that nobody wanted, that nobody really cared about. And Steve showed everybody that he still has what it takes to create an amazing pinball machine... it was a slow burn that people just didn't really care for. And then the more people that put their hands on it, then that game drove immense popularity.”

    Greg Bone @ ~22:00 — Praises Steve Ritchie's ability to make Elton John a desirable game despite initial skepticism, suggesting Sonic will succeed

  • “I have a hard time believing that's not going to be amazing... here's the most exciting thing to me... Most exciting thing to me is that that Steve came into JJP with a theme that nobody wanted”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~19:00 — Express confidence in Sonic's potential success based on Ritchie's proven track record with unpopular licenses

  • “If you're on the list, you're kind of jockeying for position to get some of the earlier CEs versus, you know, the end of the fulfillment. Because it took eight months for people to kind of get all their CEs from us, I think.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~35:00 — Details Jersey Jack's 8-month CE fulfillment timeline for Harry Potter, suggesting similar delays for Sonic

  • “People really didn't care so much about it. And in modern pinball where they do care a lot about it, those have become titles to the, you know, those have become lucrative titles into their own... They don't feel original. You know, when you look at Monster Bash or you look at, you know, medieval madness, those are to me the same thing as Harry Potter or something.”

Entities

Greg BonepersonKen CromwellpersonSteve RitchiepersonBill GrupppersonEric MinierpersonMark SeidenpersonElizabeth AshpersonKeith Elwin

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Transformers gaining positive momentum post-release with improved sales and code reception after initial mixed reactions about Optimus Prime transformation

    high · Greg: 'it's been hot this week again... it's getting legs, I think' and 'people are enjoying how it plays... the code and the assets are getting a lot of positive feedback'

  • ?

    announcement: Sonic the Hedgehog officially confirmed as Jersey Jack Pinball's next release with Arcade edition at ~$9,999, expected June 2024

    high · Ken: 'Jersey Jack Pinball kind of confirmed that there will be the arcade version of that game. $9,999 is the speculative price' and 'we should be seeing that game in the next one to three, four weeks'

  • $

    market_signal: Industry consensus that summer (June-August) is slower for pinball sales due to vacation season, outdoor activities, and warm weather reducing indoor play incentive

    medium · Ken: 'summer's not the ideal time to launch games. It's a little bit slower. People are out on vacation. Kids are home from school' and 'last time before you get into the dead of summer'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jersey Jack Pinball continues unlimited Collector's Edition strategy from Harry Potter into Sonic, allowing build-to-order CEs with 8-month fulfillment window rather than limited runs

    high · Ken: 'they decided that because of the impact of the theme, they didn't want to hold back anybody having the nicest version of the game... build CEs for a certain amount of time'

  • ?

    code_update: Transformers released with well-evolved code featuring solid core rules and rules designed by Elizabeth Ash; comparable to her previous Jaws work in foundational quality

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.105

0:00
Hey, what's going on, Pinball Land? Welcome to Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast. We're at episode number 24, 024. He is Greg Bone. I am Ken Cromwell. And today we're going to do our best to keep you informed and entertained along the way, maybe for the next 30 minutes or so as we wait to see how we're going to get started. I guess a couple of new games that are coming out imminently here over the next week or so. Before we do that, we want to take a minute to welcome our new Patreon members over at patreon.com slash Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast. Special thank you to Gary and Timothy coming in with some top tier support over at Patreon. You can also go to the show or go to Patreon and support the show over there, Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast. Search that over at patreon.com. And if you don't know what Patreon is, message us. We'll tell you. Thank you, gentlemen. Yes. Thank you. What's up with you, man? What's happening? No, nothing. Sun shining, beautiful day. I don't know when you'll get this podcast out, but it's a Thursday while we're recording. It's wonderful. We've had no winter rain, so I'm just glad to see sun and fucking dry weather. Yeah, we're 80s now, Chicago. It took to the end of May to kind of get there consistently, almost into June, man. Like, can you believe that? Don't worry. The seasons. It doesn't even make any sense. Give it time. We got three inches of snow coming next week, so hopefully it just melts right away. I know. But yeah, I'm on vacation this week, which is nice. A staycation didn't really go anywhere. Just had some time accrued with flipping out. So you guys were gracious enough to hold down my end of the fort there a little bit. So I appreciate it, man. Always reciprocated on your end as well. So Transformers came out last week. We could talk about that a little bit. I know that the rumored Sonic the Hedgehog, sounds like that's kind of confirmed at this point, I'm based on some feedback we're hearing. We've got rumor totem coming soon. You know, we kind of went from a complete dry spell in pinball to almost oversaturation in a month. And timing wise, I've always been told, and these are people that have either worked in pinball for a long time or in leadership in pinball companies, that summer's not the ideal time to launch games. It's a little bit slower. You know, people are out on vacation. Kids are home from school. People are doing stuff outside. So, you know, if everything I would say this is kind of the last time before you get into the dead of summer where you could get a bunch of games out and get some traction where you don't run the risk of, you know, the dog days of summer kind of impacting the potential sales. Yeah, I agree. That's why I always think, you know, I mean, Stern releases quarterly. So, I mean, you know, they're they're kind of always hitting no matter what. But that's why I've always found that Spooky kind of falls into that, you know, that nice time when it's a little dry, you know, it's coming into late fall, winter. And that just, I mean, man, that right there is a time to hit because people are starting to stay indoors a little bit. People are, you know, hunkering down, you know, especially Christmas coming up. So I think that's, I think that that's kind of one of those perfect times to hit. You play pinball a lot? See, I don't really think of pinball as a seasonal thing. I mean, it's an indoor thing. So if I want to play pinball, I'll play kind of whenever I want to. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't look at it as seasonal. Yeah. Well, sometimes, well, I mean, you have to take into account because sometimes, you know, even though that we live in southern Indiana, so we're kind of centralized in the United States, we have like, man, because we live in what's called the Ohio Valley. I think I've spoken on this before. It's carved out by the glacier. So we're not flat here. We're literally in a valley and it just holds humidity, man. Like, you know, we're, we're not as bad as Louisiana or Southern Florida, you know, Central Florida, but man, do we hold some humidity and it is nasty. So sometimes in the summer, you know, jump in the pool or something, I'll play pinball and stay inside just because it's so damn hot and so nasty. And you take some of those Southern states, those guys probably that away too. You know, they're probably out in February and stuff enjoying life. And then you hit July in central Florida or, you know, southern Louisiana, Alabama, you're asked to stay in inside playing pinball. It's almost like our winner. That's a really good point. Yeah. Because you think about, okay, wintertime is not going to be the same, you know, here where it's going to be anywhere. Same thing with summertime that you're going to be absolutely indoors more. So there should be more pinball being played in the southern hemisphere during the summertime versus, you know, maybe somewhere else. So, you know, not to be, we won't spend too much time on Transformers just because we kind of dove into that and talked quite a bit last week on that release. But, you know, I mean, it's gaining traction, you know, it was good. We had good sales. Stuff was good coming out of the gate. But, you know, there was some criticism that was obviously met with it just because of Optimus and so forth. But, you know, we've had a lot of people come in after they settled in, kind of took a look at it a little more and thought about it. And, you know, we've it's been hot this week again. You know, it's it's it's getting legs, I think, which is nice. I'm excited for it. Well, now that you have gameplay video out and people because, look, I mean, it's one thing to get a first impression from a game by looking at it. And you can look at all the pics in the world at a game from different angles. It's just you're not going to capture what you're going to see when you step up over a game and kind of take it in person. I just think that that's something that you should always realize. Secondly, going back to the gameplay, it seems like the code and the assets are getting a lot of positive feedback online. And it's one of those instances where I think it's just as important to people with the code and where the code is right now on the release than it is with anything else. Because with Pokemon still a little bit slower, getting the code rolled out and, you know, I know Stern behind the scenes, they're working hard at getting that done. But, you know, to have a game that's so evolved, I think for the most part, Transformers is there as the core with the exception of maybe the final wizard mode. But people are enjoying how it plays. They're enjoying the modes. They're enjoying how how Elizabeth tied everything together. Exactly. And I can't remember exactly what the code release was on Jaws when it came out, but I felt like that she had a super solid core on Jaws as well. And that game, even though it was further along and she had that great core of modes, like she just continued to add and continue to add like great polishes, not just like light polishes, like really freaking great polishes to that game and built it up. And that's what I think Transformers is going to be. You know, if the majority of that code is there and that that core is there, I still think that, you know, even if it's at .85, I think that there's going to be a tremendous leap from that .85 to 1.0, you know, 1.1. Whatever. Like, I think that I think that that's going to be something along with that gameplay video when people actually see this game in person and see how beautiful it is and see how big those sculpts are. You know, it's it's a striking game. You know, it catches your eye. And it's one of those things that photos and videos just never really show off very well. So I think that that's going to be something that takes people by surprise when they start landing on location in people's homes, too. That's going to boost sales. I think people are, you know, even more going to start latching on to it. I think the only real criticism I'm hearing right now about the game is the fact that Optimus Prime doesn't transform. He doesn't go from truck to Autobot and vice versa. But, you know, at the end of the day, would it have been nice to have? Yeah, 100 percent. I would definitely have liked to have that. It's not a I think we talked about this in the initial first impression videos. It just isn't the deal breaker for me. And I'll still go on record if you're a fan of Transformers G1, especially that animated series. I personally think that it's a no brainer to own the game. Will it be a keeper for the rest of your life? Nobody knows that until you have a game in your collection for a little bit and you get some plays under your belt. But if you are a fan of that theme, I don't think that there's a that you'd have to kind of ponder. Well, should I do this? Just know you should really consider going out. Play it if you want first. I think it'll it'll be nice in your collection. Artworks beautiful. It's all in all, it's a really good game in my personal opinion. I agree. And then we gotten you know I think that this might be the most anticipated release right now I would say probably is Sonic the Hedgehog Like we have gotten a ton a ton of requests for that game and people reaching out about it So you know I kind of curious Hopefully we see that in the next couple of weeks Where were they teasing on online Can June they saying sometime in June at least So we should be seeing it over the next, I would assume one to three weeks. Absolutely. So we're recording this right now. It's actually May 28th. Yeah. So we should be seeing that game in the next one to three, four weeks, a hundred percent. And the teasers right now have essentially confirmed the theme. Yeah. It seems like I think Jersey Jack Pinball isn't trying to hide the fact that it's Sonic the Hedgehog, but there's also kind of like a company guideline where I don't think you want to actually confirm the title of a game until you officially reveal that. Yeah. And it's doing its job. I mean, people are talking, you know, it's building some hype and building some momentum. So, you know, we've got a lot of people that have been added to the interested list. You know, we're just kind of, it's one of those things where we're waiting on, you know, some of those confirmed questions, answers to questions, confirmed answers to our questions, you know, things like, hey, are they going to have a standard slash arcade type edition? You know, are we going to have, are we going back to limited CEs or are we going to have unlimited CEs? You know, those are all questions that we're kind of waiting on at this point from a distributor standpoint and honestly from a hobbyist standpoint, because you kind of want to know, you know, about that limited. Or CE game on there. So kind of curious to hear the answers to those and see what direction the company is going in. It sounds like and I'll be the first to admit that I speculated incorrectly. Again, we didn't talk about this as fact. And I don't know that we spoke of this on the public podcast. I think this might have been in one of our Patreon podcast discussions where I was speculating that that that there would not be that arcade level version, that $9,999 game, just because of as how we kind of evaluated our sales. It was the least performative of all three options. You know, I thought it was smart and I loved it. Regardless, I think that it was a great option. Well, and I did too. And I said that if I were to buy a game, like I would have probably gone in on the arcade myself for Harry Potter. That's just what I would have done. But it sounds like poor Zack. He was contacted and Jersie Jack Pinball kind of confirmed that there will be the arcade version of that game. $9,999 is the speculative price, right? So for those of you that are on the fence on Sonic and the $12,000 or the $15,000 model might have been a barrier for you to kind of get into that game, you have that $10,000 option that will be there. I don't know for certain if the collector's editions, because look, we have a lot of people that are getting on the interest list for Sonic the Hedgehog, which is great, right? Because I've been managing the list, been adding everybody's names. If Jersey Jack Pinball goes with the unlimited CEs, and when I say unlimited, meaning they'll build them to order. Yeah. Because if you go, and for those of you that might be new or you go back, Harry Potter, Jersey Jack Pinball through the life of the company has always limited their CEs, anywhere between 500 and 1000 units. Just like Stern has with their LEs. Correct. Once those units were gone, they were gone, then you would be, you'd essentially have the limited editions left. What they did with Harry Potter is they decided that because of the impact of the theme, they didn't want to hold back anybody having the nicest version of the game. So when they released the Harry Potter game, they said that they would build CEs for a certain amount of time so that everybody could get in on the order. And then at some point they would say, hey, CE window is closing. And then they would never go back and build the CEs. But that game was released first week of June last year, and we're coming up on the first week of June this year. And that CE window is still open. If they do the same thing with Sonic, anybody should probably be able to get a CE. If you're on the list, you're kind of jockeying for position to get some of the earlier CEs versus, you know, the end of the fulfillment. Because it took eight months for people to kind of get all their CEs from us, I think. So I have some points. I want to move. I want to move this. If you're OK with it, I want to move this next part over to Patreon because I've got some questions to pose and I have some further discussion on this. If you're good with that. I would love to do that over at Patreon at patreon.com slash Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast. Get over there and listen to Gred's extended commentary. What exactly are you commenting on? Is it the extended? It's a C. Yeah. And I know that we've sort of touched on the CE stuff before, a while back, a long time ago. But I guess that, you know, I put a little bit more thought into it. And it's kind of a question that I want to pose to our Patreon members as well as you. But is this is this the right thing to do an unlimited version of a C.E.? Okay, okay. And here's where my mind is with that. So, no, you cannot tell where your mind is on that unless we go over to patreon.com slash living on pinball podcast. Then you can tell where your mind is. So go over there right now and check it out.

Tales of the Arabian Nights (Toten) remake is expected to release within 1-4 weeks and will be a major seller

medium confidence · Greg: 'I would expect... we would see that here within the next one to three weeks, one to four weeks' and 'I think Toten is going to do very well'

  • Original-themed pinball games struggle to gain community acceptance compared to licensed IP titles

    medium confidence · Ken and Greg debate original themes, with Greg noting: 'I don't think that anyone has just narrowed it down and created a really great original IP so far'

  • American Pinball's reputation was damaged before Galactic Tank Force release, contributing to its underwhelming sales

    medium confidence · Ken: 'American Pinball did not have the best reputation at that time either... I don't think that that helped either'

    • Greg Bone @ ~55:00 — Argues classic games like Medieval Madness and Monster Bash have become IP equivalents in modern collector consciousness

  • “I think that would have to be done by somebody like Keith Elwin.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~62:00 — Suggests only top-tier designers like Keith Elwin could successfully execute an original-themed pinball game today

  • “Well, but also American Pinball did not have the best reputation at that time either. That was during that downhill, in my opinion, kind of them going on a downhill curvature.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~65:00 — Attributes Galactic Tank Force's underperformance partly to American Pinball's declining brand reputation

  • “I would argue this, and this is what I think the genius was of Foo Fighters, because Foo Fighters is essentially an original-themed game with Foo Fighter music... that's where the sweet spot is”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~75:00 — Identifies Foo Fighters as successful balance between original theme and strong music/brand IP

  • “The code is really well done. Yes. And Bill Grupp over at JJP. So he led the code. He led the programming team on that. And the last time Bill had taken the lead on code was back in the day that like old school King Kong, I think.”

    Ken Cromwell / Greg Bone @ ~24:00 — Highlights Bill Grupp returning to lead code programming role after King Kong, suggesting Sonic has experienced development team

    • person
    Dennis Nordmanperson
    Jerry Thompsonperson
    Zach Sharpeperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gaming Companycompany
    Transformersgame
    Sonic the Hedgehoggame
    Tales of the Arabian Nights (Toten)game
    Harry Pottergame
    Elton Johngame
    Galactic Tank Forcegame
    Foo Fightersgame
    Medieval Madnessgame
    Attack from Marsgame

    high · Ken: 'the code is really well done' and 'Elizabeth tied everything together' with 'modes are fantastic' and positive online feedback on code release

  • ?

    design_innovation: Main design criticism of Transformers is lack of physical transformation mechanic for Optimus Prime, limiting thematic authenticity despite otherwise strong game design

    high · Greg: 'The only real criticism I'm hearing right now about the game is the fact that Optimus Prime doesn't transform. He doesn't go from truck to Autobot' but 'It just isn't the deal breaker for me'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steve Ritchie paired with Bill Grupp for Sonic (as on Elton John), suggesting established designer-programmer relationship continuing at Jersey Jack Pinball

    medium · Greg assumes Grupp codes Sonic based on precedent: 'you know how coders will end up teaming up with a particular designer... typically they'll end up working on the same games'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Elton John game transformed from initially unpopular theme to desired collector's game after Steve Ritchie's layout and design proved exceptional; precedent for Sonic success

    high · Greg: 'Steve came into JJP with a theme that nobody wanted... And Steve showed everybody that he still has what it takes' and 'slow burn... more people put their hands on it... drove immense popularity'

  • ?

    product_launch: Tales of the Arabian Nights (Toten) remake expected to release within 1-4 weeks; positioned as major seller with strong collector/enthusiast demand based on classic game legacy

    medium · Greg: 'I think Toten is going to do very well' and 'I would assume that we would see that here within the next one to three weeks, one to four weeks'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Industry consensus that creating commercially successful original-themed pinball games is harder in modern era due to licensing preference, asset availability, and designer skill requirements

    medium · Ken: 'I don't think that anyone has just narrowed it down and created a really great original IP so far... would have to be done by somebody like Keith Elwin'

  • ?

    industry_signal: American Pinball's declining reputation in period before/around Galactic Tank Force release contributed to game underperformance; brand health impacts individual game sales

    medium · Ken: 'American Pinball did not have the best reputation at that time either... I don't think that that helped either' regarding Galactic Tank Force sales

  • ?

    community_signal: Sonic the Hedgehog generating significant customer inquiry and interest list signups ahead of official announcement; one of most anticipated upcoming releases

    high · Ken: 'we have gotten a ton, a ton of requests for that game and people reaching out about it... one of the most anticipated releases right now I would say probably is Sonic'

    • 13:43
    Yeah, so, Ken, Sonic hopefully here in the next couple of weeks. That'll be great, man. I'm excited about that. I know a lot of our customers are excited about that. Are you personally excited for the theme? Like, is that a hedgehog? I remember you told the story about the second Genesis and stuff, but like, so you're invested in it. I am super stoked about it. Yeah. And the closer that it gets, the more stoked I am. And if it's a good game, that's really going to, like, I'm excited about it. But if it, if it turns out to be a great game, then I'm really excited. Really, really excited. I'm happy for the people at Jersey Jack Pinball because I mean, man, Harry Potter, It was such a huge, huge, huge success for them. And then it's like, how could you come close? Or, you know, are you going to experience a lull? Are you going to come out with something that's not a dud, but maybe, you know, in comparison to Harry Potter sales, you're going to feel disappointed. I don't think that's going to be the case with Sonic. I think it's going to sell well. Steve Ritchie being back on another JJP game. I'll tell you what, that's one of the best assets that that company's had in the last five years is bringing over Steve Ritchie. Having that experienced designer is huge. And, you know, and Eric Minier stepping up his game over there, too, with Harry Potter. I mean, a lot of people consider Harry Potter to be one of the best, if not the best modern day pinball machines. So, man, that's it. That's a big punch. One, two. And then you got Mark Seiden. Who had his inaugural debut over there with Avatar. What's next on him? So he's that's going to be that's going to be interesting. You've got Harry Potter, Eric Minier, Banger, Son of the Hedgehog, Steve Ritchie. I have a hard time believing that's not going to be amazing. And then you got Mark Seiden coming in batting third on this rotation. And, you know, with him having one game under his belt, we're going to see. Here's the most exciting thing to me. And we'll drop the Sonic thing. Most exciting thing to me is that that Steve came into JJP with a theme that nobody wanted, that nobody really cared about. And Steve showed everybody that he still has what it takes to create an amazing pinball machine because we watched it. I watched it go from Elton John, I like Elton John, but I don't really want an Elton John pinball machine to, hey, you guys sold out of those Platinums? Like, do you guys have any more Elton Johns? Like, it's a really great game. I really want it. You know, that was one of those that was a slow burn that people just didn't really care for. And then the more people that put their hands on it, then that game drove immense popularity. And it was literally because of Steve and that layout. Like it was a blast to shoot. It was a great game. So, you know, he showed everybody that he still had what it takes to create a dynamic, diverse, amazing pinball machine. And I think now that you take that and you couple it with a license that people want, this is going to I think this is going to be amazing. I would also add to it that the code is really well done. The code is very well done. Yes. And Bill Grupp over at JJP. So he led the code. He led the programming team on that. And the last time Bill had taken the lead on code was back in the day that like old school King Kong, I think. Oh, shit. Yeah. So it had been it had been a while since since he had thrown anything. Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, I'm sorry to overshadow that because the code is like it is. The modes are fantastic. Like the reason I'm bringing it up is because obviously the designer tends to get a lot of credit, rightfully so. Hopefully so in most cases because I mean they're leading the entire team, you know, from from design and they're working with with programs. So a lot of times it's easy to kind of overlook some of the things that I wasn't insinuating that you were, but I just remember the fact that. No, I did. I'm glad you brought it up because it is. It's a point to be made with it as well. Light shows are amazing in that game like the whole support team under Bill I like I know those guys are really good guys They all care about pinball nobody there cashing a check and it shows in the way that they come out with these games and I can wait to see what happens with Sonic and having Steve and team I don know who writing code I don know who leading code on that game I would only speculate then that if Bill did Steve's last game with Elton John. Is he working on this? Yeah, because he would be due now. I would assume, yeah. And you know how coders will end up teaming up with a particular designer. They kind of follow in suit with each other and enjoy what they do, and typically they'll end up working on the same games. Yeah, so that's a very good point, man. That could make this even more amazing. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, exciting. It's funny because, you know, Steve hasn't always been considered the easiest person to work with over the years. And we were talking about this, wasn't on Patreon too, where, you know, some stories here about Steve and the difficulty of working together, like Dwight Sullivan and Steve Ritchie, when they were at Stern, like they would put out some great games, but like they would butt heads. You know, those are two strong willed, creative people. I remember Jerry Thompson telling me a story with Steve and I think Steve at some point said there's two people in my life that I hate, my ex-wife and Jerry Thompson. And I've never heard of anybody hate Jerry. Like we don't think we released that part. We were talking about Jerry last time we were recording and about just how amazing of a human being and how sweet he is. Yes. Jerry's the best. He's so nice. Yeah. And he's one of the most hated men in the world to somebody. Right. I know. Exactly. So it is what it is. It's funny though. But, you know, good luck. We anticipate it. Yep. If you have the interest list for Sonic, you can email me. I'm at Ken at FlippinOutPinball.com. Now, I am on vacation for a few more days, so if I don't get right back to you, don't worry because you will be added into the queue and, you know, in the date and time that I receive your emails. Or just reach out to me. I'm covering for Ken, so just reach out to me. I don't want to bring you extra work, buddy. I know that you're- Oh, throw it on me. You're off enjoying them Cubs, watching the Cubs play. You live your life. I just went through the most amazing, ridiculous, heartbreaking thing as a Cubs fan ever, where I watched my team win 10 straight games, okay, to be like four and a half games in first place, only to lose the next 10 games straight, to drop back into the basement, and then we broke the 11, the, we broke the 10 game losing streak last night with the win in Pittsburgh. Man, it's been, it's just, oh, taking years off my life, you know, one game at a time. So another, you know, a game that I think just, you know, basing off of just what I've heard through the years with being, you know, some people's favorite game being a game that's kind of their grail and then compile that with our current interest list. But, you know, I think Toten, I think Toten is going to do very well. And I would expect, you know, I would assume that we would see that here within the next one to three weeks, one to four weeks as well, I would assume probably. So that's, you know, that's pretty exciting. Another one of those things get get on that Toten list if you've ever thought about it. We don't know a lot right now at this time, but I think that I think that's going to be a huge seller as well. And for those of you that might not be familiar with the acronym Toten is T-O-T-A-N. It stands for Tales of the Arabian Nights. Yep. One of those classic ballet games. I was talking about this with Zach the other day because when you think of these remakes, there's like a core like four or five that I think warrant like being in anybody's collection at any given time. And if you get the remake version, it's modern day electronics combined with, you know, classic day charm. And I think Tales of the Arabian Nights is definitely in there. And I'd just be curious to get some feedback from you on what I might have missed or what you don't think belongs on the list. But here's my five or six. Tales of the Arabian Nights, Theater of Magic, Circus Voltaire, Twilight Zone, Attack from Mars, Medieval Madness, and Monster Bash probably. Now you can go back into Indiana Jones and things like that. No, but I think that's the most solid classics. And do you notice something about those classics? All of them are not licensed. Yeah, except for Twilight Zone. Except for Twilight Zone. Correct. But I mean, five of those six were individual themes, like, you know, they just kind of, I know Monster Bash was close, right? Like that was a universal studio. Yeah, universal monsters. But here's the thing, though, is in that era of pinball, people really didn't care so much about it. And in modern pinball where they do care a lot about it, those have become titles to the, you know, those have become lucrative titles into their own. You know what I'm saying? They don't feel original. You know, when you look at Monster Bash or you look at, you know, medieval madness, those are to me the same thing as Harry Potter or something. You know what I'm saying? They are an IP unto their self nowadays. That's the way they're recognized. Nobody looks at them as some generic castle medieval game. You know, it's medieval madness. You know, they've become just over the years just programmed to disposition. But why can't we pull that off? Why can't we pull that off today? Because it's like one thing that I noticed, it's like a lot of people want an original theme, but it's like whatever original theme comes out, it's like it's not the original theme they were looking for. So it's like, when could we see, what company could pull off an original theme And have it like hold weight in the community. I mean, I think murals are fun. I mean, I know Winchester Mystery House is technically not an original theme. It's based off of a real house. But in a sense, it's still kind of original to me. I see.
    23:18
    It's a hard argument. It's not a well-known license. Just like a dungeon crawler Carl, which is a rumored, you know what I mean? But that's still a big IP or becoming a big IP. Like a space theme would be an example, right? We were talking about space themes a few episodes back. Like if you came up with a space adventure theme that, but, you know, it'd just be all brand new assets. You'd have to do everything. And it's harder now, right? Because we talked about like before throwing some some dots on a dot matrix display is very difficult to do. But it's like now when you have a license, you can pull from these movie assets and clip them and put them on an LCD. So it'd be a big undertaking. But, well, I mean, Galactic Tank Force was was a big undertaking. And while it didn't sell like amazingly, you know, there was still a lot of interest in it. And they did. Kind of proves my point to a certain extent. Like, I think that was really cool. But they went campy and weird, though, too. I mean, Zach still loves that game. Like, I don't have a lot of time on it to say, but people who play it, they like it a lot. But it's like what you said, you know, they had to create their own video assets. They had to do a lot of really weird shit with that. And it was still campy and quirky, you know, not to the extent. I mean, you know, you can say Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars has got a campiness and a quirkiness to it as well. But not to the extent the way that they went with with that with Galactic Tank Force that that to me was a little different. I just I don't think anybody's hit. I don't think anybody's hit right on it. You know, I don't think that they have. I think they're coming from the wrong place. I don't think that anyone has just narrowed it down and created a really great original IP so far. I think it could succeed. It would just have to be done very well. And I think honestly, it would have to be done by somebody like Keith Elwin. So, okay, so somebody go back to Galactic Tank Force just for a second. Yeah. And just because I want to clarify one or two things. When Galactic Tank Force came out and I knew it was a Dennis Nordman design and I knew they were leaning into the campiness. I, you had Franchi on artwork out the door. I'm like, this is going to do very, very well. I just thought, I thought it was going to be refreshing. It was like an original theme people were looking for. You had known people in pinball that were a big part of it. I where I think that game kind of just got to the point where it was in an uphill battle was when it made its debut at TPF or whatever it was. And like the center tank targets were having issues and and people are right off the bat. They're like, well, this game doesn't play well and you're going to run into this. And then you had like this negative connotation that was associated with the game. Very hard to recover from sometimes. Well, but also American Pinball did not have the best reputation at that time either. That was during that downhill, in my opinion, kind of them going on a downhill curvature. So I don't think that that... Was that after or before Barry O's barbecue? Was Barry O like did that come after Galactic Tank Force Oh my God I should know I thought that it did I think it did too Yeah Okay But it was part of this that struggle they were releasing stuff But I still just don think that people had associated quality and associated the right moves with American pinball at that time
    26:26
    I think it was a brand that was already tainted. So I don't think that that helped either. Okay. I can't disagree with you on that. It's tough. I just don't say there's so many factors, there's weird shit that goes into it, to where I think that you strike right and you do it right.
    26:44
    There's a possibility. It would still be an uphill climb, but I do think there is a possibility. I wonder what that would be, and I wonder what that would look like. Well, I mean, we just dealt with that rumor that Stern Pinball was what they were going to do, like an original theme, Dracula, was like a theme that was being leaked or considered about. Well, that's still based on IP, so I mean, you know, it's like Houdini, so it's still an IP to me, which is fine. You know what, man? I would argue this, and this is what I think the genius was of Foo Fighters, because Foo Fighters is essentially an original-themed game with Foo Fighter music. Mm-hmm. And I think that's where the sweet spot is, because that Foo Fighters is, it's all aliens and stuff like that, like none of that makes any sense. When you think about Foo Fighters concert experience, I know that they've had like, in fact, I've got downstairs, I've got a Foo Fighters concert poster that Zombie Yeti did. And it's got a big alien, he's wearing glasses, and it's awesome. It's one of my most favorite things that I've hung in the house. But yeah, that's an OG theme with great layout, fun rules, OG theme, Foo Fighters branding. So maybe that's where you can get away with it a little bit, but it's a slippery slope. I would never encourage a new company to come out of the gate with an original theme because I think that could be the first and last game that you ever make. Get some games under your belt, do something small batch, small run, and see where it goes. But I'd be excited to see it. I agree. And so that brings me to one last rumor here before we wrap it up that kind of took me by surprise, but then it also... Can I tell you something, buddy, not to cut you off, but I love that you're just steering the ship today. I'm just riding on the train. I love this. It's not very often. You're on vacation, so I had to take it off your plate. That's right. You're doing great, man. I'm looking for the ride today. Yeah. So, and I'll have to clarify with Zach and make sure that this is still the case. So I might be speaking out of turn, but you know, we had talked about Pinball Brothers and hey, what do they have going on? They just, they literally wrapped up Alien or Predator. That kind of explains kind of the hiatus, but then it also questions, you know, if regardless of their new title, whether it's the newly anticipated fifth element from them, if that rumor turns out to be true or not, what point will we see that game? I would assume that they're probably pretty far along with it. Did you see the rumor where that they potentially have fifth element license? I assume there was a rumor because I had a couple people asked to be added to the interest list. I don't know where that rumor came from. So, yeah, I can't remember, honestly, off the top of my head, but I remember seeing it and it was rumored for Pinball Brothers. So that kind of, you know, again, regardless of the title, I wonder when we will see their next game if they are still building for Pedretti. But, I mean, that's a title. That is one title, if that's true, that I have really looked forward to. That is one of my favorite movies. It's one of those films that I can just watch over and over and it's just there's so much that can be done with it.
    29:48
    I hope that if Pinball Brothers does have it, that man, I hope I hope they really deck that game out and I hope they do it justice. Well, I would assume if Pinball Brothers has it, they would also have Bruce Willis because when they came out with Predator, the point of contention with people was that, you know, obviously the Arnold assets were missing. I know. It makes me a little nervous. You learn from that mistake. I don't think you double dip and go in another license that you don't have the main actor. Exactly. But, you know, and if you want to get on the interest list for that, Ken at FlippinOutPinball.com, I'll put you on the interest list. I will say this, you know, again, I know it's fun to speculate with these rumors. I know there's one or two titles out there that are being reported with 100 percent certainty that are coming out, and I can 100 percent tell you with certainty that they're not coming out. So just be careful about what you're consuming and level your excitement levels. It's all fun until somebody gets hurt, Greg, and then they get upset. So be careful. Be careful. But no harm in being on the interest list. No harm in being on the interest list. No. Not at all. Hey, don't forget if you guys are looking for a Transformers, we are expecting, what, premiums? Location Pros should be here in the next week or two, immediately followed by LEs, possibly some premiums at that point. So I would say if you guys ordered a premium right now, those would be coming off the line probably mid-June, late June. So get ahead of those orders. Get ahead of that rush. Put your order in. We also do have a couple Pokemons in stock. We have some arcade Harry Potters and we have some CE Harry Potters left. So if you guys are looking to jump on that game, you've been on the fence, do not hesitate because once those guys are gone, they are gone until at least the very least late fall of this year. Those will not be produced anymore until then. And again, that to me is even still a little bit of a toss up. So again, if you're on the fence about a Harry Potter, see your arcade, definitely jump on that and get in. Not, you know, as Ken always says, not trying to create FOMO with it. It is literally just what it is. I would also encourage you outside of pinball, if you're looking for Golden Tee, if you're looking for Big Buck Hunter, something that's a little bit different for that game room, something that adds a different level of appeal to people that are walking in and easy to pick up and play. We have those in stock, too. I'm going to set up a thing and I've been talking about this for a long time. There's ways where we can set up leagues with Golden Tee. So if you're flipping out customer, I'm going to be reaching out to you here in the next few weeks about getting flipping out leagues and where you play a certain amount of tournaments per week and it keeps records and stats. And you can have handicaps and things like that. And we'll give out prizes. It's going to be fun. So if you have if you have a golden tee and you got it from FlippinOutPinball.com, please email me, Kenneth FlippinOutPinball.com and say, hey, can you put me on the tournament list? And then I'll just send you an invite and you can accept it at your leisure or not. But I think this is going to be a really fun way for all of us to kind of get involved in the whole golden. I do. I love golden tee so much. I do, too. I'm such a better golfer on golden tee than I am in real life. That's probably a big part of it. But it's a massive value. Definitely, definitely highly recommend. Oh, shit. I forgot, Ken. So here's something worth mentioning, too. You know, the game you haven't thought about very much. They just dropped a massive, massive game changing John Wick code update yesterday. And actually, since I mean, I haven't sold a John Wick forever. I've actually sold two games since yesterday, since that new code dropped. Yeah. So that that game, I still I mean, some people, it's a tough shooter. It's not for everybody, but I still think it's great. I thought the code was good before, but now I think that this polish is really going to take it to the next level. So, you know, if John Wick is something that you've thought about or you've enjoyed it in the past playing it on location or at a friend's house, you know, this code update might actually push you over the top to own it now. So, you know, think of us if that's the decision you make and we'll set you guys up with a nice John Wick. Let's upsell everybody. You might as well get the Elliott Eisman collection after you get that John Wick and just throw Transformers in your cart. Perfect. And just have his entire catalog of games. Perfect. Let's do it. Reach out to any one of us. You can go to FlippinOutPinball.com and you can click add anything to your cart and check out. If you prefer a little bit more of a personal experience, you can email myself or Greg and we can get an invoice out to you where you can click a secure link for payment and your game ships next day. With shipping times, we use FedEx Freight, fastest in the business that we've been able to find. And you're looking at anywhere between a two and four day delivery window in most cases from the time that payment is received to the time the game hits your door. Lightning fast shipping because people when you when you put some money down on something fun, Greg, you want to play right away. You don't want to be waiting a couple of weeks for the game to show up. So we get it out there pretty quick. Is that going to is that a wrap today? Are we done until maybe next week when a game comes out? You never know. Or we got to we've been trying to get out every couple of weeks with these episodes. So I think we're good. All right. That's a wrap for Greg Bone. I am Ken Cromwell. Don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.