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Off The Record Pinball Podcast Ep 19: Pinball Innovators & Makers Podcast Ep 2: The Wondering World

The Pinball Network·video·1h 13m·analyzed·Feb 20, 2023
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TL;DR

Homebrew designer Kyle Reed discusses custom Harry Potter pinball design process from Virtual Pinball to CAD.

Summary

Dan Rosenstein hosts Kyle Reed, a homebrew pinball designer working on a custom Harry Potter machine. Kyle discusses his journey from machine restoration (F-14, Flight 2000) to designing his first homebrew using a digital-first approach: Virtual Pinball for layout testing, then Fusion 360 CAD for detailed design. The episode explores Kyle's design philosophy emphasizing theme integration, multifunctional mechs, and creative ball flow, with a focus on creating 'magical moments' through disappearing/reappearing ball mechanics and variable shot outcomes.

Key Claims

  • Kyle has spent approximately one year designing the Harry Potter machine layout using Virtual Pinball, testing thousands of different layouts before committing to physical production

    high confidence · Kyle states: 'I spent probably a good year just building a layout that I thought was something that was actually fun, it flowed well'

  • The digital-first approach (Virtual Pinball to Fusion 360 CAD export) was recommended by Ryan McQuaid based on his Sonic pinball development process

    high confidence · Kyle: 'that was recommended to me by you know Ryan McQuaid with what he did with Sonic and so you know I just kind of heard through the grapevine that's what he did'

  • Virtual Pinball files cannot be directly imported into CAD software like Fusion 360; they use mesh files that don't translate easily to production-ready CAD geometry

    medium confidence · Kyle explains the inability to bridge VP to CAD directly, suggesting mesh file incompatibility, though he acknowledges uncertainty about the technical details

  • Kyle's homebrew features a wide-body playfield design with specific lower-third layout choices including Dobby dual magnet save and nudge-back features inspired by classic 1970s/80s Bally machines

    high confidence · Detailed discussion of lower playfield design: 'my right outlane has what I call the Adobe save feature' and 'post where you can nudge it back up through to feed your left flipper'

  • Harry Potter licensing from J.K. Rowling has not been officially licensed for pinball, with speculation that Rowling has no desire for pinball adaptation

    medium confidence · Kyle: 'from what I had read is that there's not really a big desire from JK Rowling for it to actually become a pinball machine. So for me, I'm like, well, if no one's going to do it...I want to do it'

  • Kyle has no engineering or CAD training specific to pinball; his skills come from growing up on a farm with a master electrician father, pursuing an engineering degree, and self-teaching coding in Visual Basic

    high confidence · Kyle: 'I grew up on a farm. My dad was a master electrician for, you know, 30 years plus...I pursued an engineering degree...I taught myself how to code in Visual Basic'

Notable Quotes

  • “I'm going to be really good at CAD. Like, I'll say that I've had lots of CAD experience in my lifetime. And picking up it, it's it's evident from picking up Fusion 360, though, that's, that's a little bit different.”

    Kyle Reed @ not specified — Reflects on the learning curve and differences between AutoCAD and Fusion 360 for pinball design

  • “What I really enjoy is the storytelling that a pinball machine can do through that gameplay experience. And so that's kind of what I want to try to do with mine.”

    Kyle Reed @ not specified — Core design philosophy: storytelling and thematic integration over competitive depth

  • “I'm trying to create experiences and I wanted to create magical moments. And so really that was what drove me to say okay so how do I go about making that happen in a physical world.”

    Kyle Reed @ not specified — Explains overarching design philosophy for Harry Potter machine mechanics

  • “Virtual Pinball allowed me to do was test, you know, 1000 different layouts before, you know, buying a piece of plywood. And that's what's so cool about this homebrew community is that there are...people that just start with plywood, start drilling holes and seeing what works.”

    Kyle Reed @ not specified — Advocates for digital-first approach while acknowledging multiple valid homebrew development methodologies

  • “I'm a man of many talents and a master of zero. I have picked up like the dumbest of hobbies and just for the sake of learning it and saying that I did that type of thing.”

    Kyle Reed @ not specified — Describes his learning-driven approach to diverse technical skills

Entities

Kyle ReedpersonDan RosensteinpersonRyan McQuaidpersonHaleypersonEric MeunierpersonJ.K. RowlingpersonScott DenisepersonAmanda Hamiltonperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Homebrew community offers multiple development paths (digital-first, paper sketching, direct plywood/CAD, etc.) with no single 'right' approach

    high · Kyle and Dan discuss varied methodologies: Virtual Pinball route, direct plywood drilling, CAD-first approach, sketch-to-wood pipeline

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Kyle draws mechanical inspiration from Jersey Jack design philosophy ('world under glass'), specific games (Godzilla tail whip shot), and classic Bally machines

    high · Kyle cites JJP Pirates, Godzilla unique shots, and early 1970s/80s Bally outlane mechanics as design references

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Thematic storytelling and 'magical moments' prioritized over competitive rule depth; emphasis on multifunctional mechs, variable shot outcomes, and ball disappearing/reappearing mechanics

    high · Kyle: 'I wanted to create experiences and create magical moments...every single shot possible on the playfield I want to have multiple outcomes'

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo 2022 (Chicago, October) featured significant homebrew showcase section; community engagement noted

    high · Dan and daughter Haley attended Thursday/Friday; homebrew village explored; custom machines highlighted

  • ?

    design_innovation: Digital-first approach (Virtual Pinball simulation for layout/flow testing, then Fusion 360 CAD for production design) recommended by Ryan McQuaid for Sonic homebrew and adopted by Kyle for Harry Potter

    high · Kyle describes year-long Virtual Pinball layout development, then exports PNG for Fusion 360 CAD reconstruction; cites Ryan McQuaid recommendation

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.221

0:00
Hi, and welcome to the Pinball Podcast focused on the innovators and makers who are crafting homebrew, custom, and rethemed pinball machines, the technology that makes these personal projects possible, and the companies helping with these journeys. Custom pinballs are a deeply personal and technically challenging undertaking, requiring time, money, knowledge, and most importantly, the desire to make it happen. I'm Dan Rosenstein, your host. Join me and let's go under the play field and see what's needed to make a custom pinball possible. In this episode, we cover our first pinball maker and innovator and his awesome custom design. We take a break and go do a retrospective of the custom pinballs at Pinball Expo with a special guest. And finish up the custom pinball interview with more detailed time under the play field on this amazing theme in part two. so uh today on the show i've got a pinball innovator and maker kyle uh who's going to introduce himself um and i don't want to seal his thunder so kyle's going to tell you a little bit about himself and uh and and the the the basics of the theme that that he's got going on sure um so uh hi my name is kyle reed i kind of got into pinball i would say maybe five or six years ago My brother actually bought a Flight 2000 that was on Craigslist as a parts machine for like $250. And he paid someone to come fix it up. And I thought that was just like the coolest thing ever. You have a pinball machine in your house, what? And Flight 2000 is an awesome game too. It is. And I actually have that in my house now. I bought it from him and that's the next one I'm going to do a restoration on.
1:42
But I started off with a F-14 actually. F-14 was my first machine. I had no idea. Yep. So I bought that when I lived in, I was in Cincinnati for around two years for work and then moved back to Michigan.
1:59
Harry Potter
game
Virtual Pinballproduct
Fusion 360product
F-14 Tomcatgame
Flight 2000game
Star Trek: The Next Generationgame
Willy Wonkagame
Jersey Jack Piratesgame
Pinball Expo 2022event
Sonicgame
TNAgame
Metroidgame
  • ?

    licensing_signal: Harry Potter IP licensing appears unavailable; speculation that J.K. Rowling has no interest in pinball adaptation, motivating Kyle to pursue homebrew creation

    medium · Kyle: 'from what I had read is that there's not really a big desire from JK Rowling for it to actually become a pinball machine'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Custom lower-playfield design incorporating Dobby dual magnet save, nudge-back post mechanics, and figure-eight shots inspired by early Bally design philosophy

    high · Detailed playfield design discussion: outlane saves, post-nudge features, inner orbit figure-eight shot for pace and combos

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Kyle's skill set (farm upbringing, electrical/mechanical foundation, engineering degree, self-taught coding) accumulated through hobby experimentation and practical project-based learning

    high · Kyle describes learning trajectory: farm/father's expertise foundation → engineering degree → self-taught Visual Basic → CAD experience (AutoCAD → Fusion 360)

    • But that F-14, once I got back to Michigan, I did a full restoration. Like I stripped it down to just the bare wood. I stenciled on new artwork. I did a play field swap, all new targets, all new switches, new boards, everything. So it plays like brand new. That that's amazing that that machine I got mine is my first machine I got when I was 13 but this is my origin story, and I still have it in my collection and that machine kicks my ass every single time I play it I cannot get above 2 million points, no matter how much I try. So, um, Kyle, you know, before before we really get into the meat of this I wanted to tell you, um, when I reached out to you we connected through Facebook we went back and forth and I am. I'd already seen some of the stuff you've been doing with your homebrew custom theme. And you sent me hundreds of pictures and videos and CAD drawings. And right now, while we're doing this interview, I've got a reel on the TV going of one of the recordings you have. You have hours and hours and I think days of hours of information. So when we finish this up, we'll share some of that. But I want to tell you that the amount of like the depth and the completeness you've done for the project you're working on is unbelievable. So you talked a little bit about your origin story. You said you've been doing this for five years with the Flight 2000. So what type of games do you actually like before we start talking about the theme and what you're building?
    3:23
    For me, so my first new in box was actually a Willy Wonka. You know, Wonka was a huge part of my childhood. I watched that movie on repeat and that kind of got me. started in the new and box realm and Jersey Jack for me, just like the ability to incorporate like a world under glass and create experiences is really something that I admire. I mean, I'm not a competitive player by any means. Like I don't learn the depth of rule sets. What I really enjoy is the storytelling that a pinball machine can do through that gameplay experience. And so that's kind of what I want to try to do with mine. Um, well, you know, incorporating some of the common elements that you see across machines today. Gotcha. So how did you get into homebrew? How did, like you had mentioned just a couple minutes ago that there might have been some re-theming in your history. So tell me about that. So, you know, I'm a man of many talents and a master of zero. I have picked up like the dumbest of hobbies and just for the sake of learning it and saying that I did that type of thing. But I've always proven myself that I can accomplish what I set myself out to do. So with homebrew, like I had seen it done, like I kind of caught wind of it, I would say like three or four years ago with, you know, Metroid and Sonic and obviously TNA that Scott rolled out. I mean, those were kind of the first glimpses into homebrew for me. And I'm like, you know, I never thought that that would be something you could actually do is build your own pinball machine, but well, I'm going to do it. Total great inspiration pieces also, some of the, some of the best homebrews that have been made. Exactly. And so, you know, it was always like something in the back of my mind that I wanted to do, but I never like had the actual like courage to do it until I'd say maybe a year ago. and that's when I really kind of started diving into it and trying to understand what all encompassed building you know your own machine and I started similar to like what the sonic spin ball did with Ryan is he started in visual pinball and then ported that over to CAD so you could actually produce it and then try testing that out with the shots to make sure that it translates and, and I'm getting very close to that point. So, um, we'll, uh, so, so on, on that, um,
    5:56
    the, you, you started with the flight 2000 and then F-14 Tomcat and did restorations and fix up for those. So I take it that you're, you're mechanically inclined, electrically inclined, like you, you like to tinker, you, you were able to fix those machines and get them up and running. And so did you feel that homebrew was kind of a logical or perhaps not a logical but a but a but a cliff diving step off of off of where where where you were. I mean definitely cliff diving, I've, I've always been you know someone who can figure that kind of stuff out. the first house I bought was in foreclosure and had the floor was sunken into the crawl space and I did a full you know flip on that house and you know all the pins that I've had I've done whatever I can to improve them I had a Star Trek Next Generation that was in really rough shape and I did a whole number on that as well and it's just something that I've always liked tinkering I've liked working on projects just for I don't know it's just fun for me I like having that kind of mindset of getting into the technical details of how and why things work. So this is your first custom design. We haven't actually said what the theme is. So why don't you take the time now to say it's a killer theme. It's like many people's dream themes. I know Amanda Hamilton from the Freeplay Pinball Podcast is a huge fan. And Kyle, the theme is? Harry Potter. Harry Potter. Huge Harry Potter fan myself. I mean, of course, I've seen the movies, read the books, listened to the audio books. I've done all of it. And I've always wanted to see what that could become in a pinball machine. So, I mean, why not?
    7:39
    So why not? Now, you know, you said you were a tinkerer, you're a man of many, many talents, and you know, you like to try new things. You know, pinball requires mechanical, electrical, programming, design, manufacturing, construction. I saw videos of you doing CNC routing. It looks like you have access or may have a CNC route. So, you know, before we talk about the details of Harry Potter and what's going into it, which is such an amazing theme, like I'd love to, I'd love to know, and I'm sure that the audience would love to know, like what skills did you start with? Are you starting at ground zero? Do you feel you came in with some of these? What have you learned also? I feel like I came in with some of these. I mean, I grew up on a farm. My dad was a master electrician for, you know, 30 years plus, worked on engines and all that kind of stuff. So I learned a lot of the technical, mechanical side of things from him. It's in my blood. But I also through school, you know, I pursued an engineering degree. And then nowadays I'm doing more analytical work. I taught myself how to code in Visual Basic and automate some of the scripting and things like that.
    8:53
    So, like, you know, I've had a little bit here and there, but it's definitely not anything that, like, I excel in or I was trained in. It's just things that I've picked up along the way. And that's, you know, like I said, I pick up so many stupid, pointless hobbies, but they all kind of come together for this project. which is awesome. Well, that's actually one of the reasons why I love pinball. And I actually like all kinds of control systems. It's because it does bring the mechanical, the electrical, the programming, the woodworking, the craftsmanship, the artwork all together. And it's not at all a surprise that you having that, you know, growing up on a farm and having that farm ingenuity and then having that engineering background is helping here. Look, I'm an engineer, you're an engineer. Do you feel that you have to be an engineer to take on a home project or? Absolutely not. I mean, there's so many fantastic resources out there, so many communities where you can, you know, go get your feet wet and try to understand what it entails. But if you're anyone with common sense, you can go out there and read through some tutorials online or watch some YouTube videos. I mean, everyone gets their start somewhere and you can pick it up along the way. It's just learning how to. Spot on. Having the desire to do it and the desire to finish it, which is always my problem. I'm happy to start projects. It's hard finishing them for me. So, you know, now we've gone through some intro things. That was a good build up. So let's talk Harry Potter. I was watching the videos. I was listening to what you were saying. And you mentioned that you read the books and watched the movies multiple times. If you had to guess how many times have you read the series and watched the movies and which is your favorite book well over the course of the last year i'd say i've i've probably watched the movies and listened to the audio books i mean audio books at least once over some of them twice um the movies i've seen probably five ten times each over the last year um and before that it was something that i would just like watch on repeat too so um unpopular opinion though i would say my favorite is probably Gaplet of Fire. Totally. And there's some inspiration about that on the machine, which we'll talk about. So with that said, when you went down the journey about a year ago that you were going to do a homebrew, was it Harry Potter from the beginning or were there other ideas formulated? And I'm sure you have a laundry list of other machines you want to build.
    11:34
    Actually, so for me, Harry Potter was actually kind of always at the front. It was something that I wanted to see done. I've always wanted someone to make it. And from what I had read is that there's not really a big desire from JK Rowling for it to actually become a pinball machine. So for me, I'm like, well, if no one's going to do it, or maybe someone is doing it for all I know, but I want to do it. So I went for it. Yeah, I've heard the J.K. Rowling, I don't want to call it a rumor, but like the speculation about it as well. You know, I'm not here to say whether it's, you know, I have no idea how the truth is. I've definitely heard the same. But I think that's a good way to go. Like, you don't know if anybody else is going to do it, so you might as well try. I can totally appreciate that. You mentioned you've got, you had a Jersey Jack Willy Wonka, if I remember correctly. You got that new in box. Listen to your videos. It sounds like you might have a couple other Jersey Jacks as well. So before we get into the all the details of the machine, which I'm super excited about, what what pinballs do you feel really inspired what's going on in your Harry Potter?
    12:40
    So, so here's another interesting story. I got in, like when I said I got into pinballs like four or five years ago.
    12:50
    I went to a pinball show, Cincinnati, with a buddy of mine down in Cincinnati. daddy. And at that time I had F-14 and Star Trek Next Gen, and I played at the show a JJP Pirates.
    13:04
    And like, you know, this was all new to me. I had no idea that, you know, it would turn out to be as valuable as it is today. But at the time I played it on the show floor there, and I'm like, this thing is just so much fun. It's something of the hundreds of machines there. I just kept going back to it because I was having so much fun playing it. And I'm like, you know what, I'm going to save up money and buy this machine. And lo and behold, a few months later, they pulled it from production and that never happened. So, you know, I love what they did with that game. I took a lot of inspiration from some other really popular games out there. I like some, some of what's been done with like Godzilla and creating unique shots, like the tail whip shot. I like creating, you know, unique and different shots instead of something other than just the standard fan layout. So I pull a lot of inspiration from, you know, really just kind of what games out there are popular, what the good designers are doing, and trying to see how I can do something unique and different that's also, you know, following that same kind of framework. So, um, you, let's actually start diving into that design process. You know, as I like to say, let's get under the play field. Let's talk about what's going on there. You know, one of the things that I really was amazed, and you had keyed in on it a little bit ago, is that you chose a design process where you started digital first. Now, there's no right, look, I don't believe there's a right way or a wrong way to do it. I can very much understand the value of a digital first. You know, you started with virtual pinball, you then moved it into Fusion 360 for CAD. And so I'd love to hear a little bit about your process there and why you decided to start with digital first, any advantages or disadvantages. And also, like, going from virtual pinball to Fusion 360, like, was it straightforward? Could it have been better? Like, I'd love to hear that. And I'm sure the listeners would want to hear that, too. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. For me, being that this was like my first homebrew attempt, and I didn't have the investment and the resources to actually make it happen at the time, I started digitally for that reason. Like I wanted to just kind of test the waters and see, you know, is this something that I could do and something that I really want to pursue? So I started out with visual pinball and I used that to experiment with thousands of different layouts. And really, I spent probably a good year just building a layout that I thought was something that was actually fun, it flowed well, and then making sure that in that digital representation, there's enough tolerances to allow for those shots to maybe translate a little bit better into the physical realm. so I started with that and then from there it's pretty simple in visual pinball you can actually export a like a jpeg or a ping image that's like a top down view of your play field and it's scaled correctly and then when you go into fusion 360 you can import that as a canvas and use that as like your template for where you should position certain holes and certain you know mechs and features. So that part was, you know, relatively clean. But the hard part for me is like, I'm really, I'm really good at CAD. Like, I'll say that I've had lots of CAD experience in my lifetime. And picking up it, it's it's evident from picking up Fusion 360, though, that's, that's a little bit different. Like I'm used to AutoCAD. And when you start bringing in timelines into things and having to actually have an organized file. I mean, I suck at that. If you watch my videos, that's the next thing that I can do better. But, you know, I picked it up relatively quickly because I had that background. And the tougher part for me was, you know, there's a lot of great CAD resources out there where you can pull some of those existing mechs and pull them into your program. But the real question is, is A, are they accurate and do the holes line up where they should right and b what if that file doesn't exist already so i had to make a lot of stuff that didn't already exist as well and and that's where the stuff that is kind of boilerplate you also had to go do a bunch of design on custom mechs to make the unique game you know the toys as we like to call them um and so i want to i want to key in on a couple things that you talked about because this is this is the this is where like the the real the real under the play field part comes from so virtual pinball, had you had exposure to visual pinball or virtual pinball? Did you play a lot of digital pinball before? Or was this your first time going using using virtual pinball? First time ever, no experience whatsoever. And so in doing that, did you also start playing other games on on virtual pinball? I did not. So I just downloaded the very basic VPX and used that to design and build. I didn't download any of the table packs that are out Got it So I I pretty easy to pick up though Yeah I got I have a full scale virtual pinball machine as one of the one of the machines in my collection which is nice It means I don have to have 3000 machines They have got you know good good number of them in in in there They not as you know they're, they're faithful recreations. And if I can't have all of them, I'll have the ones that have my collection and the rest of them digitally. So it's definitely, it definitely makes a very good approximation and very fun to play, especially with feedback, et cetera. You, we, In the transition, I was actually surprised by this when you said it, in the transition when you went from a virtual pinball to Fusion, you exported out the play field and then rebuilt as a PNG, as a flat image, and then basically rebuilt the geometry from that play field. What was the reason that you couldn't, and this might be a naive question, but I'm sure our listeners are wondering it. Why couldn't you just take the geometry that was in virtual pinball and bring that into Fusion 360? Um, so I'm not necessarily sure that like the actual CAD models of those files and in visual pinball or something that you can actually import into CAD.
    19:30
    Because in in visual I'm, I'm sure they're probably mesh files that they use for that. I'm not 100% familiar but when you plop a Mac in there it's just like, all right, standard here's how it works, it's got some pre programmed code to make sure that, you know, a pop bumper works like a pop bumper. But like actually taking that and exporting it into like an actual pen, I'm not entirely sure how well that would work, or at least I'm not smart enough to do that. No, I've, I've, I've no doubt if you, if you didn't figure out, it probably is, is, is either not possible or extremely difficult. That, that said, do you feel that the ability, Do you feel that it was worthwhile to leave virtual pinball and then go into Fusion 360 and rebuild the CAD at that point? Or if that bridge would have been there, do you think that would have been useful for you?
    20:24
    I feel like the bridge could have been useful. But in my instance, like the geometry was really for visual pinball. I was really just using it just for the physics, trying to make sure that it played and flowed correctly. Now, like I wasn't doing anything crazy and visual pinball like I did in my actual fusion model with all the custom mechs and everything I had ideas in my head I'm like okay, so I have this shot here what if I have this custom mech here. Okay, that could kind of work like I had it like a rough idea in my head but I didn't even dare try to, you know, attempt to figure that out and visual pinball. I would rather actually do that in a program where I can create a physical model and actually create like a flat pattern for sheet metal and things like that and see it become a reality as opposed to trying to like render, you know, a custom file into visual pinball. I just used like the basic, basic functionality of visual pinball. So it really, it really, I mean, you had said it earlier, but it really was for shot, for layout, for flow, for, for, for geometry. Okay. That completely makes sense. And so would you recommend that to somebody else who's starting their journey, who's now bought their Flight 2000, who's bought their F-14, restored them, and they're going on this journey, they're a year behind you? Would you say that right now that's the way to go? Start with your shot layout, your geometry, your flow in virtual pinball, and then export that as a play field and then start building it up in Fusion 360? so I'm not going to 100% commit to saying yes that's the way to go just because I haven't seen that translate physically yet but that was I wasn't wasn't yeah yeah but but that was recommended to me by you know Ryan McQuaid with what he did with Sonic and so you know I just kind of heard through the grapevine that's what he did and by word of mouth and I'm like well I'll give that a try and I asked him in a few of the streams as well but I mean people go at it so many different ways people buy a piece of plywood and start drilling holes in it. And for me, what visual pinball allowed me to do was test, you know, 1000 different layouts before, you know, buying a piece of plywood. And that's what's so cool about this homebrew community is that there are you're absolutely right. There's people that just start with plywood, start drilling holes and seeing what works. There are those that sketch it out on paper and then start working in wood. Like there are those that go directly into CAD first, you know, and there's no there's no right or wrong way for this process. So I love that answer. That was awesome. So, you know, you've got some extremely clever mechanical engineering, some very, very clever kinetic flow and sculpted design. Your Whomping Willow is one of the most beautiful 3D sculpts I've seen. And you also talked in your videos around multifunction in the mechs. Like that was a consistent theme that kept coming back. So, you know, let's translate. Oh, and then also one other one. You know, there was this theme integration of the ball disappearing and reappearing in different parts of the field, you know, going with that Harry Potter theme. So I wanted to talk about how, as we go from design into gameplay philosophy, how you sculpted the design of the game between the mechanical features, the flow of the game, the multifunctioning mechs, and, you know, where the ball is and what it's doing. Kind of an open-ended question, but that's the get-out. Yeah, so I mean really kind of like the overarching theme for me here is I wanted to create experiences and I wanted to create magical moments. And so really that was what drove me to say okay so how do I go about making that happen in a physical world. So that, you know, that entails making the ball disappear and reappear at different areas of the play field and I went through several iterations of like how the flu network was going to work so when you, when you shoot one flew fireplace it instantly pops out the other type of thing um and i settled on design with that but you know also aside from the whole it disappears and reappears what i wanted to incorporate was every single shot possible on the playfield i want to have multiple outcomes so it's it's not always predictable but it will have some predictability based on mode and how I indicate that to the player will most likely be using an insert to say, okay, the play field is in this mode state. So you should kind of get used to where the shots go when it's in that mode state. No different than like, you know, on Deadpool, when that orbit drop ramp goes down, it's like, it's predictably there when you know, it's going to be there type of thing. Makes sense. Have you, have you worked through your, your inserts and your layout for them or is that still a work in progress? So inserts I haven't even touched yet. Okay. Before I really start laying out inserts, the goal is to come up with a really good architecture for the code and rules, because that's really going to help determine, you know, what inserts I need where. Yeah. But but the basic idea is every shot will be tied to a location and every shot will be tied to a character. And to that, you know, one of the things that I was really impressed about is your design at the lower part of the play field, you know, like the fact that you've got all of the outlanes and inlanes, and then each of them has some type of interesting, let's call it feature. Like there's the nudging back into the shooter from the drain. There's, you know, Dobby's dual magnet save. There's the Vuck to the left flipper via the diverter. You know, all of these, and I realize that the listeners don't have the images in front of them. But talk a little bit about your game philosophy in that lower third of the play field, which was a lot of very unique pieces. Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, and like I said, I'm trying to be creative and think of things that haven't been done before. So with this design, I wanted it to be a wide body. And I know wide bodies have like this kind of, you know, everyone says it's a slow, you know, floaty game. So and that's because your wider shots take longer to go around orbits and there's more horizontal motion. so what I'm trying to do with my lower third is create a sense of speed and pace so both of my widest in lanes on the play field actually feed to the flippers so one of the the shots it's like the the right inner orbit I call it is actually like a figure eight shot that feeds right back down to that right furthest right in lane so it'll speed right to your flipper so it's a really fast shot and it's really good for combos um and so you know with that of course your actual out lanes are you know inset one further lane in and so um i think i remember watching a stream with eric manure back in 2020 back when he was doing some streams out of his house and he talked about how he likes to be physical with the game. And he likes to give some advantages to people who are physical with the game while risking the danger of tilting. And so I kind of tried to incorporate that into both of my outlanes. So my right outlane has what I call the Adobe save feature. So it would bounce down and you would try to nudge it up into a target that's underneath that lane guide there. and if you activate that target and it's qualified, Dobie will actually whip your ball along the apron and back up the other out lane on the left side and back up into play. So, like, that's one feature there. But, like, on the left out lane, I also put a post where, if you can nudge it correctly, there's a one-way gate that you can nudge it back up through to feed your left flipper. And that's one of my absolute favorite items on real classic early 80s, late 70s ballies is that ability to just slightly nudge it back in and go through that game and save that ball and be able to shoot again. It really is a great addition on this layout. It's been a jam-packed interview, starting with Kyle, an intro about him, getting into the design process, going onto the play field for the Harry Potter pinball machine. We're going to take a break now. We're going to talk a little bit about Expo 2022 and the homebrews there. And then we're going to come back to part two of the Harry Potter interview with Kyle right afterwards. So back in October, I got to go to Pinball Expo in Chicago. And I had the best pinball traveling companion, my daughter Haley, who's 10 years old, is about to be 11 years old. And I've got her here on the show today so we can actually talk about the homebrews at Pinball Expo. So Haley, how are you doing? I'm doing well. Good, good, good. So how's your day been so far? Um, it's been pretty good. Pretty good? What have you been doing? Um, I don't know. Kind of just been chilling. Chilling? Chilling? Getting packed? Yeah. All right. Yeah, we're going on a trip. Where are we going? Disneyland. That's right. We're going to Disneyland. But before we go to Disneyland, let's talk some homebrews from Pinball Expo. So first of all, you know, tell me, did you enjoy Pinball Expo? Pinball Expo was really fun. Now, we went for the first two days, Thursday and Friday. Yeah, so we didn't go on Saturday because we knew that it would be really busy and we were right. So what we do instead, instead, we went to like downtown Chicago and went to the top of Sears Tower. We went to the color factory and to American Girl. Yeah, it was a pretty awesome. Yeah, that was a really fun day. So when we were there on Thursday and Friday, we spent a bunch of time at the custom pinballs. Yes. And before we talk about the custom pinballs, what was your favorite part of Expo? My favorite part of Expo, so they had a taxi, and I'd never played taxi before, and I played it maybe for like an hour straight. Like, people would like go up to it, and I think that they would like try to play, and I just like kept restarting the game. And then they also had a Stranger Things LE, which I'd been wanting to play, so the topper was really cool on that one. It was a pretty cool topper. And I like Stranger Things, so. Yeah, you went back to that one a couple times. Yeah. Any other highlights from the expo itself?
    31:15
    I don't think so. Just got to meet some people that you talk about. Yeah, there were a lot of cool, famous celebrities. What about the book that you had? How about that? Oh, yeah. So he made this, like, autograph signing book with a bunch of pictures of famous people for me to go sign. so I had, like, something to do because he thought I would be bored. I was not. I had a lot to do.
    31:39
    So, yeah. All right. Well, let's talk about custom pinballs. You know, we just watched a video to jog your memory. So let's just actually go down custom pinball row and talk about the machines and what you remember about them. The first one is Dukes of Hazzard. So Dukes of Hazzard, that one was really cool. Yeah? Um, clearly took a lot of time to make. Um, I think I only played it, like, twice. But, um, overall, it was a really good machine. If you had to say, like, one thing that you remember about playing Dukes of Hazzard, what would it be? Uh, I just remember the guy that made it was really nice. Oh, Jake, yeah. And he had a cool dog. Yeah, yeah. Jake is super cool. Um, so let, okay, the next machine then is Pokemon. What'd you think of that one? Uh, the Pokemon machine? Was it down? Yeah, I think it was down when we were there. Now, the video we just watched, it was working. Yeah. But this was actually a pretty common theme. Like, the homebrews on Thursday and Friday, were most of them up? Did you get to play most of them? So, the next one is League of Legends. That one, I tried playing for so long, I was like, geez, this game is laggy. And then I realized that it, like, totally was off.
    32:57
    But I'm sure it would have been a really cool one, that one and the Pokemon one. I spent like 10 minutes trying to get League of Legends to work because it was just Frozen on this like one character. Well, what about the next one, Haunted Cruise? I think I played that one. It was really cool. Yeah. And then the Frozen was the next one. So Frozen, it had like for Elsa, like right in the middle, it had this Disney Infinity character. and I saw it and just thought to myself that Frozen was like the coolest one there just because they had the Elsa Disney Infinity character. Yeah, it ends up that even for homebrews, the licensing is tough and you've got to buy the toys that you can get. All right, the next one was Sonic. So what do you remember about Sonic? Sonic was very cool. Wait, was that the one where the people in front of us got to like the hardest level? That was, that was. And Ryan McQuaid, who's the creator of Sonic, was actually there, and he was going super crazy. Remember? Yeah. That they actually got to that level. Yeah, because we were, like, waiting in the line for a bit, and we were like, what is going on? And they're, like, on level, like, 70. So do you remember anything about playing Sonic? Anything about playing Sonic?
    34:14
    It had a really cool field. Field? Like, play field. Yeah. So the next one was Pincraft. What did you think of that one? pincraft uh i'm not that much of a fan of minecraft um so i can't really um yeah yeah but um pincraft was cool it was like with the three lives like with the three hearts that was super cool that was that was super cool now the next couple machines there was there's one that we can't make out what it was the the play field was up the whole time yeah and Then Greyhounds, The Race Home, and Ghost in the Shell. When we were there, we went by a couple times. I don't think any of those were working at the time. Those weren't working. I don't think Deadpool was working either. Was Deadpool not working as well? Well, I don't remember playing it. Yeah, I don't remember playing it either. So here's the thing. And same with Trashland. Yeah, Trashland was down also. But it looked super cool. It had like all, yeah.
    35:08
    So the thing about the homebrews is like it's great to see them. It's great to see people bring them out. And they're like really hard to make and they're like individual product projects. So I get that like they can be really hard to maintain, but we've got to figure out a way to get those machines playing at the show. It was like less than half of them working. And then, um, elf. Yeah. I was so excited to play elf. It seems like such a cool machine. Um, Thursday it was off. Then we came there on Friday and I was like, Hey, maybe else working today. the whole time we were there it was off yeah that that's unfortunate um and then there was another pokemon machine as well right but it wasn't in in homebrew row it wasn't in the homebrew row but it was somewhere else um i don't really remember the game but i do remember that on the top because they were very cute plushies they had um i think it was a um i think they had a charizard plushie a pikachu plushie and um a snorlax plushie um so cool machine so hayley um you know with your experience at pinball expo with our fun time there your your time with the custom and homebrew pinballs is there is there anything like is there a theme that you want to see get made or is there something for pinball expo next year that homebrewers should be aware of if they're bringing their machines. Hmm. Let me think for a second.
    36:38
    An Umbrella Academy pinball machine would be the coolest thing ever. That would be super cool Take that idea someone Make it And then what about advice for anybody who bringing a homebrew to Pinball Expo next year Advice Yeah Make it Umbrella Academy
    36:55
    But so real advice. Like make sure that your game is working. Yeah. And if it's not, let's actually get the community to come together and help keep those machines working and keep people around them to talk about them. because they're so cool to look at. They're so cool to play. And it's a bummer when you walk up to a machine and it's unfortunately at that time just not working. Yeah, but overall, Pinball Expo was awesome. Well, Haley, I really appreciate you both going with me and doing this interview. Thanks.
    37:27
    And now, part two of the interview with Kyle and his amazing Harry Potter pinball machine. So let's switch into some of the mechanisms. You know, and you've got some amazing ones. I mentioned the Whomping Willow. You know, it's got an amazing sculpt detail. You know, there's a double solenoid on it to, you know, what was the reason that you went with that double solenoid and how did you get to the point that you needed the double solenoid design? What does it do? Well, I went that route because I'm crazy and stupid, but so I wanted a multifunction mech. So the purpose of that whomping willow is it kind of guards your right in lanes that feed your flipper.
    38:09
    Not too dissimilar, like if you were to place a pop bumper there and it could interfere with the shot. But instead, I actually have, I'll have a sculpted silicone whomping willow mech that sticks up out of the playfield there and it's mounted to a spinning disc and that spinning disc can either be powered through a drive wheel or you can disengage the drive wheel and it can be free spinning so there's the the concept is that the whomping willow branches can actually be actuated with one of those two solenoids to where it can drop the branches down into the playfield and impede the ball path so it's so cool like a post that you would be hitting on a spinning disc type of thing. The other solenoid is there so that because you have to like based on how that mech works it's like a post or not a post like a shaft within a tube shaft. So one of those shafts drives the articulating arms on the tree and the other one actually raises the entire disc mechanism up out of the play field and creates a subway entrance. So if you're familiar in the books to actually have to tickle like a root or not on the tree to get access to the passage to Shrieking Shack. So that would be similar to that. So you mentioned the subway path. In one of your videos that you sent me, I don't remember if this was one of the ones online, you showed how you were doing subway layout and planning. And I like to talk proverbially to go under the playfield, literally going under the playfield here, your subway layout is amazing and complex. And spend a little time, tell us how you went about designing the subway layout and the flow of that subway. Sure. Well, I mean, so the whole concept of creating magical moments and having like the instantaneous transfer of the ball, you have to be able to stage balls to accomplish that. So I have, I think, three VUCs that are placed across the playfield that are entrance points and every time you shoot one of those vucks i custom designed a mech that allows you to capture a ball in it while it manages the ball underneath it in the subway because there's always going to be one staged underneath ready to go so when you shoot one of the flu network shots it's going to pop out the other one instantly but that means there's always a ball there so how do you manage those those balls so i have i take like a standard um virgil up kicker from pinball life and I modify it and I put this kind of like claw mechanism in the back. And what that'll allow me to do is when you shoot that scoop, the ball that you shot in there will rest on top of the claw while the ball underneath can be ejected into the subway. And that allows you to kind of manage the staging of those balls. But with my subway system, you have to be able to position those without the player knowing as well. So if you're not shooting those scoops, they still got to be there ready to go at the start of the game so the whole subway system is this gigantic kind of like cyclical um i forget what i call it exactly in those videos but it's a self-staging subway so cool it's like it's like a whole whole track underneath it's unbelievable so no that's pretty awesome about the subway layout and planning and that i i had no idea the balls were getting staged i clearly missed that as i was watching the video so that's even more cool so Not only do you have the subway and the entire subway system, but then all the staging there. That's so cool. I cannot imagine what the code is going to be like to manage all that state. That's a problem for future Kyle. I try not to think about it.
    41:56
    So, you know, one of the most eye-catching things is actually something that's somewhat static, which are the 3D sculpts you have. You have a sculpt of Hogwarts, one of Diagon Alley, one of Gringotts. like, you know, the Whomping Willow, which we talked about. And so tell me a little bit, are those 3D sculpts you made? Are they sculpts that you pulled in from elsewhere and modified? And what are the final materials going to be? So the only one that is made by me, and it's actually just by essentially tracing somebody else's mesh file, is Hogwarts. Everything else is actually just a mesh file that I downloaded and converted to a solid using fusion, which has some of that functionality built in.
    42:44
    But Hogwarts, it was such a massive file, like none of the conversion features are working. So I had to actually go through like one by one and do cross sections and then trace a sketch and then extrude that feature. It was a very, very long process. but like eventually the goal is so I actually have a large format resin printer so I'm going to use that to do the 3d printing and I want the route of resin because I don't want like the lines as it's printing I want it to look decent because then I'll actually paint them and make them look you know good so so did you have the the resin printer before and have you been doing 3d printing previously to the spot is that is that one of the one of the hobbies that you you picked up previously? It's one of the hobbies I picked up for this. It's becoming very clear that in, you know, doing a homebrew is really picking up multiple hobbies at the same time and learning craftsmanship and all of them. So you mentioned painting. So does, you know, do you have an artistic side as well in addition to the mechanical, electrical and design? Have you done, you know, model painting before? Only a little bit of model painting before. Like I played some tabletop games as you know in high school and stuff like that but i'm definitely not a great artist but i have taste for that kind of thing so um we'll see how they turn out i don't know well the nice thing is you know you don't want to make a mistake your first time but if you do and you know that's that's how we learn you can always print out another one you've got the digital image from the beginning um all right or the digital file i should say so um in in the middle of your play field um you've got mag rail slide track and groove um and maybe i wasn't like completely paying attention or i missed it what's gonna be on there like how how does that integrate into the theme what is that thing that that's because in my mind that's the elvis mechanism from from or or the the big buck hunter game uh big buck hunter mechanism but but maybe i'm wrong about that. So, um, so, you know, being new to the pinball world, there's a lot of things that I didn't know kind of existed out there, but a lot of people are like, oh, that's, you know, the missed multi-ball from Bram Stoker's Dracula. I was like, oh, I guess it kind of is. So it was unintentionally, but, um, the, the concept there is I have a magnet that is mounted on a carriage that is on a lead screw, and that is going to be driven by a stepper motor. And what that'll do is, essentially that was kind of like one of the primary mechs that I wanted in the game when I started is I want to use it to create moments and so that will be whenever there's like a wand battle between you know Harry and Voldemort or whoever it can grab your ball it can move it back and forth along that rail but also with it being you know really long insert is I can cast like you know the green light for a spell and the red light for a spell so it looks like that kind of melting lava in air type of effect and so it's going to create those kind of moments but also allow me to do things like in um prisoner of azkaban when he learns the patronus charm and at the very end when he battles off the dementors that are sucking the life out of him and sirius um there's a huge moment where that patronus just gets so large and just kind radiates these white things so with that like i'll use that to actually fling the ball in different areas of the play field um or like you know accelerate it up in orbit or um there's kind of like in the middle what i call like the horcrux shot is it actually a captive ball lock where you can shoot up in there it holds your ball captive and then you kind of bash it around in there and there's a magnet, but like, I can also use that mag rail system to grab your ball and then fling it up into that captive ball lock and create some of that magic. That's so cool. I didn't, I did not at all catch that, but you explained that like, I can, I can see those moments happening. I'm so excited. That is, that is awesome. So tell me, so let's talk about the goblets, the goblet of fire. So it's a captive ball, but it's also got a projector in it. So it's actually, it's actually not a goblet that was one of my thoughts initially was like, you know, what can I put over the space is like, can I put the goblet of fire there but because my theme what I'm trying to go for is the entire universe, and not geared toward a particular movie. so I'm trying to create more so the play field based around location rather than like things that are specific to a certain year in the in the series so um so I didn't want to put Goblet in there just because it was like too specific to just one year um since the the goal is you're going to be advancing through the years and progressing to actually kill Voldemort um so So what that is is actually the prophecy orb. And so that's actually, and I'm trying to figure out a way around this right now I have a, it's like a do it yourself snow globe kit that comes with a four inch glass snow globe. And then what I do is I have this acid etching cream where you can frost the interior of it. And then I have a little micro laser projector that mounts behind it under the playfield, and through a fisheye lens, it illuminates the entire sphere. So it's like, you know, you can use it to not only like do the prophecy stuff, but that's going to be the primary like cock or the the shot clock thing for modes. Right. So, you know, I'll have like a countdown timer in it. And you can also use that for moments to like to display something and create a show around it. That's really, really, really cool. I did not. I did not realize that that's what it was. And that projector looks so cool on that frosted interior. And just you walking through how you came up with that, and I bet you the listener is agreeing with me. That is just some clever ingenuity. Talk to me about how you actually got to that point, getting the etching, getting the snow globe, the kit, getting the projector, working it through a fisheye. like that is a that is a really cool solution how did you get there so it actually kind of started out with you know the prophecy orb was kind of early on as like a thought okay i could use that to actually convey like modes and timing and stuff like that but um the concept came around like disney and how they actually you know for instance they project onto like a piece of glass to make it look like ghosts are dancing in the haunted mansion and the best ride at disney yeah trying to simulate like what they do with that but within a contained glass sphere or um in the same ride the uh i forget her name madam whatever her name is in her face is inside of a globe and it's the same thing it's kind of like a projection inside the sphere i'm like okay so how can i do that myself and i looked up um like different methods that people do at like halloween time and stuff like that and so i actually bought this material that's kind of like a silvery colored fabric and I tried to create a screen that you can project through the backside of, but it was still very two-dimensional. It's like, I didn't want you to look at that globe and just see like, oh, here's like a square outline of a 16 by nine aspect ratio. It's like, okay, it's just another screen. So I actually went the route of exploring projection globes that some people make for like museums and they project a map of the world into it. And so figured out that they use fish eye lenses for that the projector and i'm like okay how can i downscale that and use it for my purposes because they're doing it on like massive 36 inch spheres it's like well i got room for a four inch sphere that is um so so speaking of space the the next mechanism like i i i saw kind of it get exposed in a layer cake to me and the first layer cake was I saw Gringotts and I was like wow that is a cool cool sculpt we talked about that and then I see that there's this like vertical neck behind the corner wall of Gringotts and I'm like that looks cool but I cannot tell what it does and then later on you you like you like slow rolled me into it that it's a Gringotts three ball lock talk talk to me about that mechanism because it's just as cool above the play field as it is below the play field yeah so the goal with that is so for each year there's going to be a requirement to I think to play like a multi-ball and there's going to be different multi-balls available you know obviously Quidditch is a big one um Gringotts we'll talk about Quidditch um the the Weasleys uh Hagrid you know shooting Hagrid's hut and maybe he becomes like an assist or a team up type of thing um Hogwarts you got I have a lock for Hogwarts, right? So I wanted to do this for Gringotts and I wanted it to be a physical lock. So I also wanted something that when you're shooting from the right flipper, that you can feed that left wire form when it's not in lock mode. So when it is in lock mode, there's a set of forks that pop up under the play field, not too dissimilar from the chest on pirates. And that feeds into this mechanism that is just a three ball lock. And it uses kind of like a a gate that's got a hinge point and it holds everything in place above the wire form until at a certain point you lock that third ball and it'll just release them all down the wire form um i don't know if it's gonna work i hope it will hey look that's that's the beauty of all this right you gotta start somewhere you're starting with something that you hope is gonna work and i can tell just from our conversation from what you sent me before you're gonna work through it you're gonna figure it out so so so you teed it up so let's and and I've left it as the last mechanism to talk about before we go further. Before you get to that, do you want to do the sorting hat first? Oh, yes. Let's go with that first. I think Quidditch is kind of like the finale of my mechs. I'll be honest. I didn't even have sorting hat on my list. So let's make it happen. So in the back corner, back right corner of the play field is where the sorting hat will sit. and it's actually a multi-state um diverter mech for the ramps i'm noticing a theme here kyle so every ramp you shoot actually feeds to that diverter first and it operates similar to like an old railroad turntable every every ramp you shoot every ramp of the game will go we'll go through that one two yes every ramp will go through that sorry i killed your no you're good well okay i lied with the exception of the one from the upper flipper but every shot every ramp shot from the main flippers goes to that um and it's it's like a railroad turn table where it can have different positions and feed different ramps or different wire forms and it also has a magnet that is built above it that'll be hidden inside of the sorting hat so like when it goes time to be sorted into your house you shoot the ramp and the magnet like stops your ball and creates a show there and then it can actually fling it back into a subway entrance or you can actually feed that diverter mech from the subway so I use that diverter mech to feed like so many different I think there's like four or five different inputs and like five or six different outputs so the combinations are just crazy what you can do with it I I could I cannot wait to see that code. That's going to be unbelievable. I don't want to see it.
    55:01
    So let talk about the piece du jour Now I tell you I was putting this podcast together just about a month ago And as I was looking and trying to figure out what I you know the very first podcast dropped a month ago what I wanted to do it was almost the exact same time where this eight second video shows up in my feed and it's up the Quidditch mechanism. And I don't remember what I was drinking, but I spilled it on me. I think it was coffee. It was all over me. I was burning myself. It was hot. And I could not stop watching this video while the coffee's just spilling all over me. Ryan, take it away. Tell us everything about that Quidditch mechanism because it is amazing.
    55:44
    Yeah, so I don't know where the inspiration came from that. It just kind of happened at one point. And a lot of versions of my design, it was just like you would shoot the ramps and they would go up and through the Quidditch play field. And sometimes they would divert onto it where you could actually play it. Actually, Ryan, would you mind real quickly, since we're not on video, can you just describe the Quidditch play field and what's there, just so the listener can build a picture in their mind? Yeah, so in the upper left, it resembles the Quidditch pitch. And what it is, is you've got the sculpts of the grandstands all the way around it. And on this Quidditch pitch is a clear piece of acrylic or polycarbonate that is attached to two stepper motors and lead screws that can raise this play field up and down. So it's like your ball is flying and raising up and down. And as you're doing this, there's actually the scoring rings from the Quidditch pitch in there that you're trying to shoot through. and there's a spinner through the scoring rings it's so as as the as the play field goes up that mini play field goes up and down you can actually control because the flipper is going along with it you can control hitting the ball through it's absolutely amazing keep keep going yeah so that was you know interesting like i wanted to have something more than just like oh well this raises up and down and there's just stand-up targets i'm like oh that's boring i want you to be able to shoot through the actual scoring rings. So the spinner, what I'm thinking will happen is as you shoot the spinner, that'll kind of like raise the play field. And the more time goes by without any switch hits on that spinner, it'll start to lower. So your goal is to kind of like hit consecutive spins to raise it up to each tier of those scoring rings and shoot them. And I don't know, maybe it'll be an extra ball if you get all three, or maybe that's where the snitch comes out and you actually have to hit that to get an extra ball but trying to design it so that the flipper moves up and down vertically I mean I mean typically your flipper mech is you know a solid thing bolted to the play field and it's clamped in place and it can just rotate well I had to make something that rotates but can also move up and down while it's being actuated by a flipper mech it's unbelievable um i cannot like i saw that and and the first thing that went into my mind after i was burning myself was take my money like this is gonna be so amazing i i realized it's a homebrew and i was like oh my god that like i just i just kept and i just kept watching that video i and then when when um i saw some of your other diagrams like i started going under the cat to try to figure out how it worked it's it's absolutely amazing so so with that we've we've covered we've covered the mechanisms we've covered your design philosophy um you know you you've been digital this whole time and recently you've had some progress that that comes into the analog world tell us about it yeah so i actually streamed the cutting of the whitewood on my cnc it was actually during indisc so um we were watching indisc and then we were cutting it at the same time it took probably eight to nine hours to cut the whole thing out because i had some issues here and there, but you know, gotta learn. So I cut that out. And then the last week or so I was getting the clear coat on it and making sure that's cured. And then I built my own rotisserie behind me that I'm actually going to put plans out there for other people to build it. So it's kind of like a really easy DIY rotisserie where you can use extruded aluminum, like 80, 20, 20. Yeah. It's the engineer's Lego set. It is. It is. So I'm using that and I'm hopefully, you know, getting some put together that a lot of people can use in the homebrew community because it automatically would pitch your play field at six and a half degrees so you can play test it while it's in there and rotate it. That's brilliant. Like that's innovation right there. That's so smart. Who would want to play test their play field while they're building it? That's just ludicrous. So, you know, you said you encountered some challenges, some difficulties. Now, I personally have some experience with CNC routers as well. Like on the one side, they're like these automated robots that just go do a bunch of cool work for you. And like next thing you know, you've got, you know, eight hours go by, you've got cut wood. What were some of the problems that you had? The biggest problem that I had. So like I had everything kind of thought out in the beginning, like, all right, I'll create all my tool paths for the top side. And then I'll have it use the same exact zero point when I flip it over to do all the bottom side tool paths. Kyle, can you comment on what a toolpath is and where that gets created? Because there's probably listeners who don't know. Yeah, so a toolpath is created in Fusion 360. So what I've been working on over the past year is creating the physical or the virtual model of the play field and trying to understand where the holes need to be. And in Fusion 360, you essentially generate what's called G-code. And that G-code is what the CNC machine uses to program its movements to cut those holes. And for the listener, you don't have to have the details of the G-code. That just happens to be something. It's basically a way that Fusion 360 knows how to talk to the CNC router without actually being physically connected to it. Exactly. Yep. So in Fusion 360, you export these what you call toolpaths, and each one does a different thing. Like some of them cut out 2D contours, and some do pocket milling or your holes. So you just have to figure out what you need to create as a toolpath is concerned to create the play field. So you actually, going back to your design process for a second, I realized I killed your flow here. So this will be a stop for a version. So you started in virtual pinball, did the shot layout, the basic geometry, exported the playfield layout, then worked in Fusion to build out the mechanisms, the assemblies. And I've got Fusion 360 experience. I cannot imagine that Fusion 360 was keeping up with all those assemblies and parts that move. But it does a great job. It's always amazing how it does it. And then from there, you then had to also design the tool paths for your CNC machine. So you export those, you put on the CNC machine. What goes wrong?
    62:19
    So it was something really stupid when I changed over to exporting the tool paths for the backside. I had accidentally changed my units and fusion from inches to millimeters. and in doing so it was trying to cut out the whole play field in about a little one inch square block it's like it's the stewie play field it's yeah no big deal yep so it took me a minute to figure that out ran back up to the house and then re-exported with the correct units and figured that out and then the other issue i ran into was when i flipped over to do the back side everything was offset by like one and a half millimeters and I couldn't for the life of me figured out figure out why and you know I was out there all night so I didn't bother coming back in to check the CAD I was like whatever I'm just gonna adjust my zero point and rerun it and turns out that when I created my zero in the file I forgot to account for the width of my actual plywood that I was using. So it was like one and a half millimeters off. And can you tell the listener what the zero point is just so they're aware? Yeah. So a zero point, whenever you like generate your tool paths to run, it needs a point from where it originates the running of that tool path. So it's called a zero point. And that's where you set the machine zero to, all right, I want the router bit to be exactly flush with the top of the plywood and I want it to be exactly even with the corners of my plywood so you set that zero point and then all of your files run from that same zero point so they all cut in the correct positions. Did you have any issues with keeping the wood down on the CNC because you know you can't just clamp it down the way you do when you're doing a standard woodworking project because the CNC head needs to be able to run where those clamps would usually be. So different CNC routers do it differently, but some have a vacuum, some have very low side clamps. How does yours work? So actually it was a tip that I found online watching YouTube videos back when I first was researching CNC machines. And this one guy uses actually painter's tape and super glue. So you put painter's tape down on your surface, and then you put painter's tape on your plywood that you're cutting out and then you super glue the two together. And then when it's all said and done, you can just peel it off the painter's tape. God, that's so, I've had so many problems and bad CNC cuts or routes because I could never get the suction or what have you to work. That's genius. I'll have to try that next time. So look, this is absolutely amazing. Lots of innovation, lots of innovation in processes, lots of innovation and learning in design, in game flow.
    65:15
    I cannot wait to see this thing. And it's great that you're seeing it in the physical world now. What's your immediate next step? So I've been working the last week or so on building a bill of materials for the entire assemblies and everything. I downloaded a free trial on something that allowed me to export it from Fusion. And that trial expired yesterday, but I got everything I needed. and so now I'm placing links to every item I need and prices to everything I need and building out shopping carts on like pinball life and a little bit from Marco as well and then it you know just got a budget for it it's like my shopping cart right now on pinball life is like two thousand dollars worth of mechs and screws and posts and all kinds of stuff so it's it's it's a labor of love and it's a it's a it's a it's a personal project for you um what could the custom pinball community do to help you um really i mean i i'm trying to prove that i can do it myself and i welcome all advice and input and i reach out to people um who can help provide that you know at times i'm in quite a few different um discords and um some homebrew communities where i can ask those questions. Lots of great people out there to help with that. But really, you know, ultimately is once I get it physically flipping is, you know, play it and let me know what you think. Yeah. You and I first connected on IM on Facebook, but I actually ended up, we're on the same Discord server too. So where there's a bunch of custom pinball and homebrew discussions that happen. So I saw you there and I saw you posting there as well. It's definitely a small, small community. So what keeps you up at night with the project? Well, right now it's financing the build.
    67:13
    I've got the shopping cart of everything I want to actually physically build it. But that'll be something I can get past relatively quickly. The biggest hurdle is going to be code. Like I can code. I've taught myself Visual Basic and SQL, and I'm very fluent in those. But Python, you know, code to me, it's like, it's all the same logical kind of format. It's just, you got to learn a different way of telling that, you know, logical decision-making it's a different language. Right. Right. So if you understand like the concepts of how code works, then it shouldn't take too long to pick up Python for me, I hope. Um, and I'll, you know, be using mission pinball framework, which helps provide some of the good basic functionality you need and you know coding a homebrew and and you're out of mission pinball framework we talked about the digital journey that you did on design and one of the cool things about mission pinball framework is it can be used in your final game as you're going to be using it um to to do a lot of the the control software but the actual cool thing is they have a plug-in for virtual pinball as well so you can actually run physical devices from the virtual world so you can actually start blending I know you didn't go down the journey, but it is possible to blend with Mission Pinball framework and some of the controllers out there like the Fast Controller and the P-Rock that you can actually run them from Mission Pinball through virtual pinball as well as the physical one that you're doing.
    68:43
    So what's your favorite part of the whole process? I mean, the favorite part to me is getting to a point. Well, I mean, obviously, like I love working and tinkering on all this stuff, but to me, it's going to be when I have an actual playable Harry Potter game. And it's like, you know, whether or not the industry ever makes one, I'll be good. You'll have one. That's the cool thing. I'll have one. I mean, it's something that I can say that I did. And like, I'm not trying to like get anything out of it. I just want to do it for me and prove that I can, you know. Look, man, you know, if there's anything I can help you with along the way, you know, I'm part of part of the community. I'm happy to. But in addition, once the game is ready, I'm more than happy to come to come by and play. And, you know, I don't I don't know if you if you drink or not, but throw back a beer.
    69:39
    And so I know how to get a hold of you. How can others get get get a hold of you if they if they want to? What's the best way? So I haven't been doing like a blog or anything like that. I know I've had that question come up a few times, but what I have been doing is whenever I work on something that I think is of pretty, you know, significant importance is I'll stream on Twitch. And so I'm on Twitch. My name on Twitch is Kyle Bossa, but instead of L it's a one. So K Y one E B A S A. I love that name by the way. Yeah. I'm a fan of, I'm a fan of Polish sausage, you know, Puns and polar sausage are two of the best things.
    70:19
    So you can find me on there. And then also I have a YouTube channel that I kind of started up recently. And so far I've just been uploading past live streams. But eventually I'd like to start making some kind of post-production content as well with my build and see what I can do to help others, you know, inspire them and get building their own homebrews. And we'll get a link to your YouTube channel on the show page. So, Kyle, I have a question for you, and we hadn't discussed this previously, but, you know, there is a large financial side and you're doing this on your own. I'm just shooting the, you know, just shooting the shit, if you will. Would you be open to a Kickstarter, like, to help you fund some of those parts? I mean, I'm just not of the mindset where I'm, I'm not entirely sure what that legally involves. So like, I mean, yeah, if people want to send me gift money, who's going to turn that down. But, you know, I don't want to have the obligation to like fulfill something to backers, you know what I mean? Totally. But like if, you know, I mean, there's people do like they want to fly to a friend's wedding or something, or fly to an event and they, it's like a GoFundMe basically, maybe Kickstarter is the wrong way. But I'm happy to discuss that with you offline. It was just kind of an idea as you were talking. One other thing that we didn't cover, what do you want to do about artwork, plastics, cabinet decals, back glass and playfield art? So, so my idea for art is really to kind of go the route of photorealistic so it's kind of the recognizable characters from the franchise. I'm also not opposed to going the route of the actual cartoon drawings that are in the books and everything like that but I think the most recognizable thing that when people walk up to a machine and see it's like okay well there's Daniel cliff. There's, you know, it's the people that, you know, other people or players are familiar with. So I want something recognizable, but I think I'm going to pull that off anyways, when you walk up to the machine and I have this really grand idea. I don't know if it'll actually work, but I want to create an animatronic sorting hat topper that talks to you. That'll be awesome. Listen, Kyle, this has been, this has been fantastic. I also want to thank you. You're the first interview that I've gotten the chance to do as part of the Pinball Innovators and Makers podcast. You are quite the pinball innovator and maker. I am quite excited to follow you along on your journey. Provided you had a good experience with this, I would love to have you back as you make for, and I'm sure the community and the listeners would love to hear that. You really went under the play field. You spent a lot of time, and I just want to thank you. What you're doing is absolutely amazing. I couldn't think of a better way to kick off this podcast than with Harry Potter and with Kyle Reed. So, hey, I really do appreciate it. And, you know, thanks for having me on. Be happy to come back and review the progress as we get going. Thanks, man. Cheers. Bye.
    73:29
    Thanks for joining the podcast. Thanks for listening. And I can't wait to see what you make.