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WAP #59 "Magnets, SLE's, and MORE!!"

We Are Pinball (WAP)·podcast_episode·41m 57s·analyzed·Jun 10, 2026
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

WAP #59: Sonic confirmed for 23rd, Transformers toy criticism, magnet mechanics debate, Spooky rumors.

Summary

Don and Jengiz discuss upcoming pinball releases, design philosophy, and player preferences. Key topics include Jersey Jack's confirmed Sonic pinball announcement for the 23rd, disappointment with Transformers (LE) toys and lack of playfield transformations, enthusiasm for magnet mechanics in games, and speculation about Spooky's potential Super Collector's Edition plans. The hosts debate what makes games mechanically interesting versus aesthetically appealing.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack has officially confirmed Sonic pinball for release on the 23rd

    high confidence · Don states: 'Jersey Jack himself has finally confirmed this rumor that it is Sonic, it is happening on the 23rd.'

  • Total Nuclear Annihilation will be featured in Awesome Games Done Quick speedrun event this summer on Twitch/YouTube

    high confidence · Don discusses TNA being selected for AGDQ speedrun with large viewership potential reaching retro gaming audience

  • Ken Cromwell left Jersey Jack and is now working part-time at Zach Sharpe company

    medium confidence · Don references: 'What's Ken doing at Zach's company? He needs to be part-time there and part-time at JJP.'

  • JJP has hired a new media contact named Alex from North Carolina

    medium confidence · Don states: 'Yeah, this guy Alex, I emailed him. I think he lives in North Carolina. Friendly guy. I got on the phone with him.'

  • Original TNA game cost around $6,000; reissue cost around $9,000

    high confidence · Discussion of pricing: 'I think it was around 6, 000 when it came out. Yeah, and then when they redid it, it was like 9, 000.'

  • Transformers game lacks meaningful playfield transformations despite the theme

    high confidence · Jengiz emphasizes: 'What's transforming on this game? Not much, right? So not much.' and criticizes lack of shot changes

  • Transformers (LE) toys (Grimlock, Optimus Prime) have low detail and resemble McDonald's Happy Meal toys

    high confidence · Jengiz states: 'they look like kids toys that you get from McDonald's for free' and 'those toys are more details because I have them in my home'

  • Don will not unbox Transformers (LE), marking the first new release he won't unbox

    high confidence · Jengiz declares: 'For the last 10 years, this is going to be the first new unboxed release game that I am not going to unbox.'

Notable Quotes

  • “Jersey Jack himself has finally confirmed this rumor that it is Sonic, it is happening on the 23rd.”

    Don @ early in episode — Official confirmation of highly anticipated Sonic pinball release date

  • “For the last 10 years, this is going to be the first new unboxed release game that I am not going to unbox.”

    Jengiz @ Transformers discussion — Strong statement of dissatisfaction with Transformers LE, unusual for a prolific content creator

  • “I want what the ball shoots to transform. Do you know what I mean? Venom (Premium/LE). Premium LE transforms way more than Transformers does.”

    Jengiz @ design philosophy section — Core design philosophy: functional playfield transformation over toy movement

  • “Magnets. All the games, magnets. When you go in this, next time you're at Spooky or like Retro Junk said magnets.”

    Don @ magnet discussion — Advocacy for magnet mechanics as standard feature in new games

  • “These toys, I mean, for McDonald's, for free, they're more detailed.”

    Jengiz @ Transformers criticism — Scathing comparison of Transformers toy quality

  • “Ken Cromwell and he can guide this guy. The thing is, I like to do these fun unboxings. Avatar was super fun. Harry Potter was super fun.”

    Don @ JJP media access section — Explains importance of early access for content creators and nostalgia for Ken Cromwell era

  • “This game needs to transform. And before this game came out, we got Harry Potter with that stairs diverter. That's so cool. It's such a cool mech.”

    Jengiz @ design comparison section — References Harry Potter stair diverter as exemplar of innovative playfield design

  • “I am the people's champion. And I wasn't invited to any special media days or nothing, and I ain't even sad about it.”

    Don @ Sonic launch discussion — Self-positioning as grassroots community voice, dismissal of exclusive media access

Entities

DonpersonJengizpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanySonicgameTotal Nuclear AnnihilationgameTransformersgameKen CromwellpersonZach Sharpeperson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Jersey Jack officially confirms Sonic pinball for release on the 23rd

    high · Don: 'Jersey Jack himself has finally confirmed this rumor that it is Sonic, it is happening on the 23rd.'

  • ?

    event_signal: Total Nuclear Annihilation selected for Awesome Games Done Quick speedrun, reaching mainstream retro gaming audience

    high · Discussion of AGDQ as major platform reaching millions of non-pinball viewers through live speedrun coverage

  • ?

    product_concern: Stern Transformers LE criticized for low-detail, simplistic toy design compared to theme quality

    high · Jengiz: 'they look like kids toys that you get from McDonald's for free' and 'those toys are more details'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Transformers game criticized for lack of playfield transformations despite title theme requiring it

    high · Jengiz: 'What's transforming on this game? Not much' and extended critique of missing shot changes

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Ken Cromwell left Jersey Jack for position with Zach Sharpe's company

    medium · Don: 'What's Ken doing at Zach's company?' with context suggesting recent departure and nostalgia for his JJP role

  • ?

    community_signal: JJP appears to have inconsistent media outreach strategy; new contact (Alex) requesting work samples from established content creator

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.126

0:00
I can listen to this intro music all day long. What's up, everybody? Are you ready for some fresh wobble your face? It's Don and Jengiz. We're here for you. We're the people's champions in pinball. Oh, did I love this track, man. I'm jamming out to it. Jengiz, how you doing? I'm doing great baby, I cannot get enough of this music, Scott D'Nazza, thank you for this. I actually repaired a pinball machine and I listened to the whole CD of this track. So it has got 11 tracks for the TNA game and all 11 tracks are awesome. The one that's called Last Mission, go on YouTube and check it out, it's just awesome. I want to buy that game just because I want to play that Last Mission. Have you gone to the last mission on TNA, Donnie? Are you kidding me? I can get through about two, sometimes three reactors. Oh, did you know this about Total Nuclear Annihilation? They are doing, and I think I covered this, but Awesome Games Done Quick is a YouTube streamed, it's probably streamed on Twitch too. It's a speedrun of all things video games, NES, SNES, Genesis, Arcade, Steam, all kinds of stuff. This year, they're featuring Pinball, and the game that they're going to speedrun live on Twitch and YouTube is Total Nuclear Annihilation. They're going to try to go through all nine reactors as quickly as possible. Phenomenal. And this show, like, they do it. When is that happening? I have to look it up. It's usually in the summer, but it's got to be coming up soon. But, I mean, they do a winter one. It's a big fundraiser. They fill a convention hall with people watching this live. Millions watch online. And so this is like a huge platform for pinball. Because this is people watching Super Metroid be live-streamed, the live-stream speedrun of Street Fighter or something. No kicks with Blanca. How fast can you get through it? So these are not the usual pinball guys. They are retro gaming guys. And retro gaming guys that love watching streams of anything. And so the fact that they can get exposed now to TNA and like, whoa, that was awesome. That's huge for pinball. And I don't think it's getting talked about. You have to be there. You have to be there. Yeah, I made them aware. Actually, how cool would that be? Yeah, all right. You need to be there. You need to help with the code. We will cover it. It's cool. It's cool, man, yeah, but TNA is a hell of a game. Technically, still not limited. They could do another run. They should just make a 250 run. Absolutely, but for the old price. Oh, that will never. You would lose money building for the old price. Yeah, I think it was around 6,000 when it came out. Yeah, and then when they redid it, it was like 9,000. I was like, ooh, that seems like a lot for TNA, but adjusted for inflation, it's probably pretty close. But it had a lot of upgrades in it. Yeah, it had a lot of upgrades on the new one. The new plastics, I know, yeah. But yeah, heck of a game, man. Super fun. Just the music alone, come on. I bought a Gottlieb Street Fighter just because I wanted to listen to the music. The game is okay, I guess, but the music, I love it. I rank that game right around Monopoly. Like, it's just... I love the music. Yeah, the game is, yeah, it's a gothic game. You know how it is, but I buy pinball machines when I like the music. It's so lame. This is true. You are musically inclined. Yeah, absolutely. All right, Darnie. Yeah. Number, show number 59. That's it. I have missed you, buddy. I missed you too, sir. Where's my air horn? There it is. This morning, all of a sudden, you sent me a text, bro, do you have time? Let's wop. I'm like, oh, heck yeah, baby, I'll have time. Let's wop. I love it, man. I actually asked on our Patreon, I asked the guys, Don wants to wop. What do you guys think? Now or wait till Sunday comes out? So, Rampmaster, he says, wop today! And then a special edition WAP on the 23rd. Why does he say the 23rd, Donnie? Well, that's because Jersey Jack himself has finally confirmed this rumor that it is Sonic, it is happening on the 23rd. And that lines up with some other things I've been hearing about launch parties that are happening shortly thereafter. So, yeah, the game's going to be out. I want to play it. I am the people's champion. And I wasn't invited to any special media days or nothing, and I ain't even sad about it. That's totally fine. I want to go in with all my buddies in the general public because I have heard that the game will be over at Interium at launch or shortly thereafter. And so as soon as I get confirmation that it's there, I'm going to make the drive. I'm going to go in. We'll just have an event. Let's do our own Sonic pinball launch event. Totally unofficial. Totally for free. Show up. We'll hang out. We'll play some games. We'll eat some pretzel balls. It'll be awesome. But I'm hearing, like, Kerry's talking about this game now. You know, he's hype on it. He's getting a CE, and that guy never gets high-end anythings, so he was clearly impressed with it. So they invited him, but not you? What the heck? He's a legend in pinball content creation, man. I'm just some dude that enjoys pinball. Come on. Come on. You should definitely be on that list. That's what I mean. They need to have Ken Cromwell back. What's Ken doing at Zach's company? He needs to be part-time there and part-time at JJP. We miss you, buddy, at JJP. We miss Ken there. It was great times when Ken was there. He's got to be having a blast doing what he's doing now, though, man. Dude, Ken did magic. We're distros here, inside the talk. Ken Crumble is awesome. He should come back to JJP.

Spooky is exploring Super Collector's Edition variants with potential exclusive features

medium confidence · Jengiz discusses rumor: 'people have been asking...you guys should do a Super LE or something' and they're considering 'what they can do to make a limited version'

  • Spooky game releasing in November

    medium confidence · Don references upcoming release: 'we know a Spooky for sure is coming out in November'

    • Alex
    person
    Kerryperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    George Gomezperson
    Elizabeth Gieskeperson
    Brian Eddyperson
    Cary Hardyperson
    Awesome Games Done Quickevent
    Avatargame
    Harry Pottergame
    Cirqus Voltairegame
    Interiumvenue
    Barrels of Funcompany
    Scott Danesiperson

    medium · Don's account of asking for interview samples from Alex despite prior unboxing history and collector status

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Community design preference emerging: functional playfield transformation (magnets, diverters, moving ramps) valued over cosmetic toy movement

    high · Extended discussion favoring Harry Potter stairs diverter, Godzilla ramp, X-Men wire form over static toy robotics

  • $

    market_signal: TNA reissue reflects pinball price inflation; original ~$6k, new ~$9k despite same game rules

    high · Direct pricing comparison with acknowledgment of parts/assembly upgrades justifying increase

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Unprecedented: established content creator (Jengiz) will not unbox new Stern release due to toy quality concerns

    high · Jengiz: 'For the last 10 years, this is going to be the first new unboxed release game that I am not going to unbox'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Spooky exploring Super Collector's Edition tier above current LE, considering exclusive features

    medium · Jengiz: 'they're looking at what they can do to make a limited version that maybe it's got art the other ones don't have'

  • ?

    content_signal: Content creators require early access and advance knowledge of game themes/designs to plan production (costumes, lighting, sets)

    high · Don explaining need for early peeks to 'order costumes, get lighting and stuff' for quality unboxing content

  • ?

    design_innovation: Community and designer consensus: electromagnet mechanics should be expanded across games as core feature, particularly for chaos/randomness effects

    high · Extended discussion of magnet placement preferences (playfield vs under-playfield), multiple game examples cited as models

    • 6:00
    It definitely seems a little darker there without him in the doorstep. Who's their new Ken? Do we know it by now? Yeah, this guy Alex, I emailed him. I think he lives in North Carolina. Friendly guy. I got on the phone with him and just waiting to hear next steps there. And then he invited you or what? What happened? I haven't received an email reply yet. They were talking about, you know, would you want to come and interview? I'm like, listen, I just want to come over and play whatever's whatever. I'm happy with as much as you're able to do, but I'm trying to be as unintrusive as possible. And so he asked for a sample of some of my work. So I'm like, OK, yeah, I made a super cut of some interviews that I did and sent it off. And I checked my email every 15 minutes. And so far for about a week, it's been no replies. Wait, I don't understand what you mean by that sample of what does that mean? He asked me for some samples of what my interview style is like. And so I was I was like, all right. So I went back to a show I did where I was at Stern. I think it was for Dungeons & Dragons launch, and I interviewed George Gomez and Elizabeth Gieske and Brian Eddy and Gary Hardy. Real heavyweights. And so I made a supercut and just sent that off to him. And I'm sure they're really busy pre-launch. Who cares about some podcaster? He invited other media guys, and he was like, I want to know who you are, Donnie. This guy, what the heck? What the heck's going on with this guy? He knows nothing. Nothing. All I can say, I'm a fan of pinball. I like to make some content. Give me his number, man. Give me his number, man. Oh, no. I did not want to start a war.
    7:33
    But it's nice because I'm local to Chicago, so there's no problem to go in there. But so far, the only event I got invited to, and it wasn't even by anybody official, just someone going to the show, it's out on the East Coast. And so I'd have to drive to the JJP factory, get on a plane, fly to the East Coast, and then be able to play the game after launch. Which is silliness. So I sent another email to a different guy and he let me know that the game will probably be in Interium shortly after launch. That's cool. So I'll walk in there. I'll get my game card. I'll play some games. I played Avatar at Interium shortly after it came out and the designer was there kind of tweaking it and working on it. So me and him got to have a moment with his brand new game after launch. Nobody else was there. That was super cool to me. Did you tell this guy you bought Avatar C? They don't care about that. Did you tell this guy you also bought Harry Potter C? I don't think they care about that. And you covered their games? What the hell? How can they not? I covered my body blue. You're ambassador for pinball, man. You're the positive voice and love of pinball. I don't get it. That's what I'm saying. Call Ken Cromwell and he can guide this guy. The thing is, I like to do these fun unboxings. Avatar was super fun. Harry Potter was super fun. I need some time to order costumes, get lighting and stuff, so that's why getting a little early peek is helpful because I can order stuff so it's here. Otherwise, I'm just going to have like, here's my box. I'm opening it up. There it is, everybody. That's not fun. You're going to be Sonic on this one? Oh, my goodness. Yeah, like maybe Robotnik is featured more than Sonic and maybe I should dress up like him. Or before I buy a bunch of blue felt fur to cover my entire body with, I just want to know, is he the focus of the game? Is he not? Which version is it? All these questions are just going to have to remain unanswered. And that's fine. How do you feel right now, just the theme and the play field pictures we saw, how percentage-wise are you certain that you want to buy this game? Based on what I've seen and what I've heard leading up to it, that's not enough for me. That's not enough for me. What has hyped me up, though, was people that have seen it and, like, their impressions and their excitement for it. And so I'm like, okay, that's, okay, I like that, you know. Kerry's getting a CE. That says something, you know, because he kind of swore that off after he got that Kong Ellie and lost money on it, that he wouldn't, like, go in at high levels again. But here we are. Here we are.
    10:01
    But, Tony, we are media creators also, so I'm not negative now. But it's very usual that people like you and I, when we see a new game, we are excited. I know. Almost no matter what's going on, we'll be excited about the new game. Like let go a couple of years back when you saw a brand new game you were like ew No not really What are you talking about Like which one No I had one game where I was like ah but that was because when I unboxed it it wasn assembled the correct The back box was crumbling and the buttons wasn't. Do you remember that game starts with a V from Stern? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was only 70% assembled when I got it. Yeah, that was – and it's not like there's a lot of stuff in Venom to begin with. So how do you forget to screw the flipper button? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you were at Stern at the Venom launch, right?
    11:09
    You bought the game. No, no, no, no. They launched that game. They live-streamed it at San Diego Comic-Con. They didn't do a media day for that. The first game they did a media day for was John Wick. Yeah, yeah. And then I wasn't there for the Pokemon one. You saw it at the V Media Day and you bought the game. So what I'm trying to say is guys like you and I, we get excited. Yes. Yeah. So you cannot, you cannot, you know, use those persons saying I'm excited. The game is cool. Most of the games are cool when we see them.
    11:40
    Until we play the game and the code is not there, blah, blah, blah. You know, that's something else. Yeah. So the theme only, I'm very, very excited. I haven't been excited for many of the themes from JJP, but this one, very interesting. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, excited about it, especially like Steve Ritchie's pedigree. I love his Star Wars game. I love that Hyperloop ramp. There's going to be some sort of mechanism similar to that. Magnetic acceleration, hell yeah. I don't care if it's on Star Wars. I don't care if it's on Cosmic Cart Racing on the Immaculate P3 platform. I love that technology. High Speed 2. Yes. You got two or three magnets at the backside that just turns them. Oh, I love it. Magnets. All the games, magnets. When you go in this, next time you're at Spooky or like Retro Jango said magnets. All those five, six games you guys are working on, install magnets there, magnets there.
    12:39
    Good point. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Donnie, you need to have a magnet that, like in Pulp Fiction or in Monsters where you hit something and the magnet will make chaos on the ball. Just magnets on all the games. Magnet, minimum one spinner, and drop down targets. That's a must. So do you like magnets that are below the playfield, invisible ones, like on Pulp Fiction? Or Foo Fighters. No, not Foo Fighters. Yeah, Foo Fighters had that, right? There's a magnet inside underneath the alien.
    13:13
    That's not a cool way to use a magnet. What about with Pokemon? On Pokemon where the magnets under the playfield throw in the ball around? Or on Guardians of the Galaxy has magnets underneath the playfield? Or do you like the magnets that are in the playfield? Like Beetlejuice, Fall of the Empire, I think? Munsters was like that where the ball can catch on it and then be thrown. Pulp Fiction has it like that where it can be caught and thrown. Both of them are cool, but I just love that it throws the balls to the side so you have this randomness with the magnet. What about balls in vertical locations like on Stranger Things Premium and LE where it can lock the ball up there, the telekinetic lock? What about on Kiss where the ball can mystically make its way across the back play field? That not so much.
    14:08
    I mean, say no, Lord of the Rings 2003, when you shoot up that ram and the magnet grabs the ball inside the ring. Have you seen that? Yes, yes. Okay, that's good. Yeah, that's really, really cool. So if it's themed proper, then it's cool. But it needs to throw the ball around, just one magnet under the play field and do some magic. It doesn't need to stop and grab the ball. The magnet on Beetlejuice or on Star Wars between the flippers, that's a waste of a magnet for me. Because first time I launched and it does that magical stuff on Beetlejuice, it was like, whoa, did you all see this? It was awesome. But I'd rather have that magnet in the middle of the play field or up one third so it does some magic up there. Just like on Pokemon you said. Or on Monsters. That's awesome. Just have a magnet. It's important. And spinners. So I agree with you. As much and impressive as it was on, say, Shadow, where it would grab the ball and throw it, you know, if that's not fine-tuned or if it's not consistent enough, I don't like it as much as just a magnet that's causing some chaos or, like, taking your ball and flinging it across the play field. Exactly. It's so fun.
    15:24
    How much can that cost on the bill of material? Well, and the nice thing is it's not going to wear out because it's just an electromagnet that's there. Yeah. And I do like when there's a playfield magnet and then slings nearby. So, you know, even if it doesn't fire in the correct direction, it's still going to hit a sling rubber and then start bouncing around, you know, and add that craziness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. You know what? I like that. I like on Circus Voltaire upcoming remake that all of a sudden a magnet grabs the ball on the right side of the play field and bam, you get a pop-up pop-bumber. That is fun. You need to hit that 10 times to activate extra ball and it will demagnetize the electromagnet on top and it will let the ball go down. Such a cool feature. Why don't you do it? Grab the ball. The worm who could grab the ball on Beetlejuice and come up, act like a pop bomber or a scoop or whatever. Just pop up there. That could be so awesome. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I can see on your face expression and your pen there. You're writing that. You're like, yep, we're going to change some stuff. I got some ideas together here for some fun stuff. I love it. Also, you know, on Circus Voltaire, again, that head that pops up, he has a magnet on his job. The ringmaster. Yeah, ringmaster. When he pops up, the material is very soft rubber. So each time you hit it, he will bounce. The game will say a bang sound. And that stuffed rubber with the kinetic energy, the way it bounces back or goes down onto the playfield, do something like that. It's so satisfying. For the amateur, it's amazing. For the 10-year player, it's still cool. Yeah, so it's cool watching the playfield transform. The ball's on top of him. He rises up. The ball can roll off into the wire form or roll down the front. But then he can also go up to a second level where you can shoot into him, and he becomes like a big gobble hole target. Oh my God. I like that it takes up that area, but it does three different cool things. Yeah. Yeah, that's fun. When Ringmaster's head is all the way down, you have a lot of targets at the backside, and the magnet in the middle will activate when you hit them. I mean, this is from 1997.
    18:01
    So much magic, man, 29 years ago. I think transforming playfield areas is really like where innovation should be, you know, because you only have this much square footage to do whatever you're going to do. But if you can make an area do three or four different things like on Circus Voltaire, like that's how you can add some interesting complexity. Like imagine you're playing a game and each game like a different part of it is transforming, you know, and you can like open up other shots, other fun stuff to do. You know, last game I got to play over in this area, this game I'm playing over here because this is more built up. I love games that do that. Don't just leave it static. Venom Pro was one of the saddest games to play. It did nothing at all. Like nothing. I'm sorry. But first time, first of all, I started and I played Beetlejuice. So it has got – we only have 1,000 people in the world that has got this game, right, guys? So you have three bash targets. You shoot them and it will roll down. Now you have access to the worm or snake or what you want to call it. The snake takes his head up and he moves in X and Y angles and it's just so fluid. It's so good and music and the light show beneath him, red and green blinking. If you don't hit the ball hard, it will just trickle down there and go onto the play field. Such a cool feeling. But if you hit it the correct way, you have two targets way back down under there giving that 3D Z-axle effect. First time I shot it, I was like, what the? Was this Spooky Luke's idea? Was this Box? Who came out with this? This reminds me of 90s mech, and I just fell in love with it. Yeah, it's the kind of thing that somebody has the idea, and they're like, okay, let's mock it up, and then let's play with it. And then, you know, oh, hey, you know, when the snake is up and the ball is going down, it's just kind of rolling down there. What if we put some drop targets down there? And now it's a shot, you know. And so it's kind of like everybody's input comes in to make something better, something greater. You're just supporting each other's ideas in there. Yeah, so that's like the best way to do it. Rather than just like lock yourself in a closet like I made this game, and if you offer any advice, F you, I'm going to hate it. You know, it's kind of like how can we make this better? And like things were fine over time. It's awesome. The Williams in the 90s, it was like that. Everybody had their own office and they were in one with each other. And it was like, oh, he's working on that. I can't go in there, you know. And that's how you end up with games like called Transformers with no transforming. What if the game was called Magnets and there was no magnets in it? What if it was called like Crazy Loops and there's no Crazy Loops? First of all, I like putting these ideas in your head with magnets and stuff like that on your upcoming game. That spooky Cool I love it Second of all we have to talk about Transformers because last year when you and I talked about Transformers we talked about the back one of the playfield needs to turn 180 and have a complete different playfield or sideways or something This game needs to transform. And before this game came out, we got Harry Potter with that stairs diverter. That's so cool. It's such a cool mech. That's just Mecha of the Year. It's so fun to shoot. So I was like, oh, and Transformer is going to transform and be better than this.
    21:31
    What's transforming on this game? Not much, right? So not much. You do have some motion with Megatron on the Premium LE, which does look cool. There's like two degrees of motion there. He can rotate. He can yaw, and then the gun can go up and down in X-axis, Y-axis, vertically. And so when the combination is going on, he's like turning like a robot and moving his arm. But that's what you get. That's all you get. Yeah. So nothing on the – I know about the hate the game is getting because of nothing is transforming toy-wise. I'm not on that hate train. For me, toys not transforming, I don't care about it. I want what the ball shoots to transform. Do you know what I mean? Like Venom. Premium LE transforms way more than Transformers does. And those were simple mechs. You know, that was a 180 scoop, right, that could have three positions it could be at. That was three different shots with one just tilt mechanism, you know.
    22:34
    You know, it had flaps that would lift and lower, and that changes, you know, from an orbit to a scoop or whatever. You know, like, why not simple things? Like, I would have loaded the game with three or four creative things like that and then just had, you know, the robot masters, Even if they didn't change themselves, as long as shots were changing. Godzilla Pro and Premium has a small little rotating jump ramp that comes into view and then can go away. That's fun. Simple things like that. Also the building. When the building goes up and down, it transforms the pathway. It's a ball diverter that's a giant building. That's awesome. And that's five years back. X-Men transforms. Wire form can deform and then lots of balls come out. Like, they've done transforming before. It doesn't have to be a complicated robot going through all this stuff. You know, it doesn't have to be a robot at all. But, like, if the game itself was a transformer, how fun would that be? Galactic Tank Force was a transformer.
    23:31
    Maybe we aimed high because we were like, the designer of this game is a mechanical engineer, right? Yeah. And they nailed it with the theme G1 cartoons, 1980s, Elizabeth on Code. If this game transformed, man, and it doesn't have to be a transforming Optimus Prime. Leave him back there. Just make the ramp do something. Give me a little lift flap. Give me something. Is there a diverter in the game? There is a diverter behind Megatron because on the premium LE you can load balls into him. So that's the only kind of changing I think that's there.
    24:10
    Yeah. Let me give you a turbo review. Theme of Transformers G1. Yeah. What the heck? It hits us perfect. We were small kids watching this. So thank you, Stern. Right? Awesome. Music and callouts. Come on. So well done. I really, really enjoyed. Artwork. I enjoyed. Stats and layout. I enjoyed. Yeah. Codes, get the fuck out of here. It's just next level. It's like 1.8 or something. So there's just so much great stuff in Transformers. But, Donnie, and the toys doesn't transform. I don't care. But the toys, the toys themselves, they're too big. They don't have no textures, no details, no nothing. They look like, you know, non-detailed toys for two-year-old kids. Now, this could still be prototype and the final sculpts may have better paint and detail, but I don't know. What's the dinosaur called? Grimlock. He's like the coolest toy. We were here. We were here last year saying, Stern, please drop those piss heads, right? We don't want stuff like that. Yeah, just drop them, right? And they put in this grim look. Look at the teeth and everything. And George Gomes, do you know what he did before he was in pinball? He was a toy maker, I believe. I believe he had a little shop in Italy. Yeah, back then, back in the early, early 90s, he designed toys that could transform. He designed $100 toys back then. And then he came into Bill Williams and made $4,000 games back then. But he's there. Plus, mechanical engineer is there. Look at Grimlock.
    26:13
    I mean, I don't care that what's the Optimus Prime. I wish, you know, he's a prime. He has this gold axe arm. He has the prime weapon. He can decimate all. He can just hack and slash. If you have watched the show, he's just, he's a prime. Okay, he doesn't transform, but just, it looks, they look so ugly. So for the last 10 years, this is going to be the first new unboxed release game that I am not going to unbox. Whoa. Yeah. First game. First. You have a showroom. You have a location. You have a showroom and a location and you don't have one of these on order. That's funny.
    27:04
    When you play game, when you play pinball, early gamers, they look directly down at the flippers to see what's going on, right? But when you play for some years, you look at the backside. When I shoot, what's going on, what happens? And do you want me to look at those ugly ass two-year-olds design? Do you know what I mean when I say toy for two-year-olds? You know how simple they are? I would wonder if they didn't get the license for toys. They only got the license for cartoons, so they were basing it on Cartoon Grimlock. But Cartoon Grimlock has more detail than this. And the Optimus Prime is the transforming toy that Hasbro makes that you can get at the store. So I'm confuddled.
    27:51
    I mean, I like the Pro. First of all, the Pro doesn't have Grimlock. That's cool. Second of all, it doesn't have the sound mixer, sound wave I think it's called. Yeah, yeah. That dimples the middle of your playfield. That will destroy your playfield. So he's gone also. But you still have those two big, very, I don't want to say ugly, but they're just very low detail, low res. Yeah, yeah, low poly, right? Yes! Like it irritates me so much because everything else is awesome. And I looked and I looked, I'm like, I just can't. I called my bro and he's like, what do you think? He's like, those toys, they look like, you know, kids toys that you get from McDonald's for free. I'm like, no, dude, those toys are more details because I have them in my home. These toys, I mean, for McDonald's, for free, they're more detailed. I don't know what's going on, Donnie. And they had a lot of time to develop this game. Yeah, and I don't think you're really missing anything on the pro. You could get a better Grimlock and put him up there. It doesn't do anything anyway. And when we were playing multiplayer games and multiple ones of us had balls locked, sometimes Soundwave wouldn't even shoot all the balls out and they would just auto-launch anyway. And you still get the sculpt of the Megatron. And when he does shoot balls, right now it just goes over to that extra wire form. And that extra wire form has a landing plate which blocks the view of the little secret area that's down there with the up post, which you can see it on the Pro. The mission star? Yeah. Shot? It's like the extra ball in there. You can put a ball in and a post can come up and lock it. Yeah. You can't really see it. So that's covered when you look. It's covered. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but on the Pro, when I went over to the Pro, I'm like, I can see it so much better now. What happened? That's when I figured it out. So, like, you know, why – and I don't like the two-tone LE colors, so why would you not just get the Pro on this?
    30:00
    This game, I heard some media creators say, get the LE, get the LE, but – Who? Who was saying that? I have heard – They're saying, get the LE, get the LE, but on this game, get the Pro. You have the whole game. And if you like the theme, the code from Elizabeth is phenomenal. It's better than that. Also the audio package. I listen a lot and the audio package is so enjoyable. And all three trim levels, the art is just more Transformers. So it's like one, you can just flip a coin and get any one and that's what you're going to get. And it's very true art-wise, very true to the show, right? It looks nice. So cool games. I wouldn't mind getting one at some point. But yeah, with everything else that's coming out right now, I don't have the money and the budget to go to this versus something cool. Yeah.
    30:57
    Yeah, so that's just how I feel. I love everything except the toys. And I am a totally Stern shill guy. I love flipping Stern games. Freaking love Stern games. But it just this kiddish toy unfinished It ruins it for me But we all different Maybe some people think Grimlock looks awesome I don know I respect that But for me no way Did you get the LE No no no I didn get it I mean I wouldn mind down the road If like I saw an LE and it was like and it got the topper it like it already has all the lights in it then, yeah, I wouldn't mind getting it at that point. But, you know, for 13 right now with Sonic around the corner with, you know, we know a new Spooky for sure is coming out in November. Barrels will probably have something cool. Hey, wait, I want to ask you something. Okay. Yeah. With this spooky fun, you know, I'm a spooky fan now, absolutely, want all their games.
    32:02
    What is this I'm hearing with the Super Collectors Edition ones? What the heck, though? Yeah, so people have been asking, I don't know whether it's distributors or whatever, for like, you know, you guys should do a Super LE or something. And it's like, the games are already super limited, you know, like they already sell out right away. Okay, so I haven't heard any final plans on anything, but they're looking at what they can do to make a limited version that maybe it's got art the other ones don't have. Maybe it's got armor the other ones don't have. It would have to have something to compel. No, wait, not art. Wait, wait, wait. This is too important. Yeah. Fuck art.
    32:45
    Put more stuff that is happening with the ball. So if there was like an extra mechanism or two in the Super LE? We talked about this on Evil Dead. That yellow car? Yeah. Yeah, 88 on top of that? Just put that in the game as a bash or something like that. I don't care about different artwork. Fuck different artwork. That's, don't, oh, they have the coolest art guy in there. I know it, no disrespect, but I want something. It's so magical that the ball can do. That's so cool that no other mod maker can do. That you need to have the SLE because the guys there put a toy in also makes two special codes that only interact. You cannot just mod this. You need to buy the SLE to have the SLE code. So you need to do that. Absolutely.
    33:46
    Yeah. I can. Yeah. People should see your face expression right now, Dr. Dunn. You know what I mean? I'm filled with ideas, man.
    33:55
    Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So instead of making, I'm just throwing out a number, instead of making 1,500 of these games, just again make 1,000 and make 100 Super Elite. So we saw this kind of before with Guns N' Roses with Jersey Jack where their collector's edition had like an extra area the balls could go into that was in the apron like the coma ball lock or something. I have no idea if it was fun at all because I haven't really – even when I played a CE I didn't get to play with that area.
    34:33
    But like something like that where you can do something only in this – okay. Yeah, you had a coma mode for that. It's awesome. So let's say Back to the Future is going to be like $15,000 with import fees and everything. And if they do a Super LE, what's it going to be like? $23,000. And if the only thing their Super LE has is just different art, that doesn't really... Oh, fuck that. I don't care about different... But, okay, so Back to the Future has got the DeLorean car inside, but it does nothing, right? It's just there. So you could interact with the car. You could open up the doors and the car turns on a little turntable so you can see the dates on the different missions on the display. 1985, 1885, something like that. Not just different art, green armor. Who cares? You need to have this game. So when I have the CE, I'm like, Donnie, first time in my life, I envy you. I envy the guys that has got the Super Elite because it has got something with two new modes that I cannot experience, two new songs that I cannot experience, more call-outs that I cannot experience in my home, more stuff that I just wanted because I love the theme. But how do you do something like that? And if it's like super awesome, how do you not have that in every game? And like you're already making, trying to make the game as awesome as you can. Give me a game. Give me a game. Come on. Black Knight Sword of Rage. I don't know. Where are you going with this? Black Knight Sword of Rage. Okay. Yeah. So if you want to make that super elite, you have one knight. You can put a second knight. So they turn their heads. They talk to each other. They taunt each other. They taunt you. A white knight in the game with his shield, with his sword, with his game modes. You can start as the white knight. What if the black knight could flip around 180 degrees and it was the white knight on the other side? You can have white knight modes. Oh, white knight modes. Yeah. And if you could only have 100 of these with special modes, come on, buddy. I have white knight spear of justice.
    36:51
    You can say the next 100 games and in the same second I can go. Next time you sit with the boys, give me a call. Just let's go and run through. My head is filled with ideas like this, but it needs to be special. If you come here with an SLE and say, this one has different artwork, I don't care. I don't know the artwork between the premium pro or LE of Transformers. They all just look good. That's it. I think it's risky, too, because what if you make super LE art and people prefer the original one better? It's like an artist's objective. Maybe some people like it better, some people don't. Well, that's cool.
    37:27
    If he likes, if this person likes the normal collector's edition, then just save some money and buy that. That's fine. But the Super LE needs to be so...
    37:39
    Creme de la creme. Do you know what that means? Like, I've got this. It's the only one that does this cool thing. Yeah. And you cannot just mod your way into it. It needs to have special mods. If I'm doing with the toppers... If I'm paying top dollar for an edition like that, I want to have it with something that I can't just put in there. Exactly.
    38:00
    Special custom call-out. If I can go get back glass made, if I can go get custom armor made, then what's the point? You bought the Elvira and you made your own 40th edition armor. It costs you nothing.
    38:15
    One person got mad at me for doing that. It was so awesome. My fault, dude, buddy. It was shaming me. I was like, dude, what are you talking about? I got a premium, and to me it looks like the 40th. And he's like, you can't do that. It's like, I think I just did.
    38:31
    What game was it? You bought Mirror Backglass 2. What game was that? Oh, I got that on Stranger Things. Oh, yeah, that's out there, man. You have a special toy, bashable toy, extra magnet, one, two modes for that toy only, and some extra music? Come on. You're crazy in this hobby. Oh, my Star Wars, all the way down there at the end of Sheldon Gengiz, my Richie Star Wars, I have a premium. I got the LE armor made. It's got lights in it, so it's better than the LE armor that came with the LE game. And the LE game never came with a back glass. It came with one of each of the trans lights, and you could pick which one you want. I have a mirrored back glass that says limited edition on it for Star Wars. It's the LE image, but on mirrored back glass, which was never available for the LE. You bought an LE, you got two extra trans lights.
    39:33
    Tell me about it. I made a video about that. I was so disappointed, man. For real. This idea, this show, I know Spooky Guys, they're listening, but Don, he's like, yeah, we're on the talking stage, but come on. If you do this, do it the proper way. And build it, people will buy.
    39:53
    Well, I mean, you know, if someone's paying that much more, you want to give them something. But, like, how do you think, you know, every cool idea that was thought of was probably crammed in the game already. So you just have to, like... No, Donnie, because they have a bill of material. Do not shorten bill of material because you know what happens. But they have that, they have, I'm telling you, they have more ideas, more stuff they could put in the games that there was like, we have to yank those off. Because don't come and tell me that they had like 16 ideas and they put all the 16 toys in the game. That just didn't happen. But you can always make a Super L-E or Super C and put one more toy in there. It is possible. And with Spooky, trust me, it's possible. I love it.
    40:48
    It's a cool place to live down the street from, sir. Oh my, guys, when Don calls me, he's like, with the camera on, I'm like, where's the Spooky building? He just turns right there, buddy. I'm like, oh, this is so cool. I know. Are you done with your Beetlejuice? So, okay, so I was in there the other day. I have three more mechanisms to put in, but I built the ramps. Those ramps in that game, the metal ramps, the whole assembly, those are hand-built. Those are flat metal pieces that get bent by hand, hand-shaped into the radiuses, and then bolted together with all the things and bits and bobs on them. And so that simple 180 Dante ramp, I was like, okay, they did a 180 ramp, whatever. No way, man. That thing is hand-folded, hand-tuned into those radii to make it work the way it does. I have a whole new appreciation for it. Those don't come in a box already assembled.
    41:41
    This factory is like artisan people working with their hands for every single step. Nothing is mass manufactured.
    41:53
    And such. All right.