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049: Special Guests and a Lil Roadtrip for Transformers!

Punk Rock Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·46m 23s·analyzed·May 27, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Punk Rock Pinball crew visits Stern, evaluates Transformers game's shot layout and deep code despite underwhelming toy sculpts.

Summary

The Punk Rock Pinball Podcast hosts Joe and Shelley Sharp discuss their field trip to Stern Pinball to play the newly released Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye pinball machine. The group emphasizes that they prioritize shot layout and gameplay code over aesthetics, noting that while the toy sculpts are underwhelming compared to original Transformers figures, the game has deep, complex code that will take many plays to master. They also discuss Stern's production capacity, the Pokemon pinball game's strong sales, and licensing dynamics with Hasbro and The Pokémon Company.

Key Claims

  • Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye has deeper, more complex code than Pokemon, requiring hundreds to thousands of plays to master

    high confidence · Podcast hosts and guests discussing their play experience at Stern; they played 3-4 games each and couldn't reach wizard mode, contrasting with Tom Graff beating Pokemon code in 2 balls

  • The Pro version of Transformers contains every shot that exists in the Premium version; the only difference is a virtual vs. physical ball lock

    high confidence · Host Mike explaining the differences between trim levels after hands-on play and discussion

  • Stern is currently running one shift per day at its manufacturing facility and has capacity to scale to multiple shifts

    high confidence · Hosts citing information provided by Kyle at Stern during the facility tour

  • Stern employed approximately 200 people at the manufacturing facility on the day of the visit

    medium confidence · Kyle mentioned the number during the tour; hosts note 'they say' and 'around 200 people'

  • Stern plans to continue evolving Pokemon pinball for years based on strong sales and positive operator feedback

    high confidence · Seth from Stern stated this during the presentation at the beginning of the tour; hosts confirm hearing this

  • The Pokémon Company approval process for code updates takes longer than Stern's development because Pokemon is the most valuable IP in history

    medium confidence · Seth explaining that The Pokémon Company has its own approval process that takes time; hosts interpreting this as protective of the franchise value

  • Transformers is a $30 billion total franchise, larger than DC, TMNT, G.I. Joe, and He-Man

    medium confidence · Hosts reporting what Stern said during the presentation; not independently verified

  • Hasbro has been easy to work with as a licensing partner for Transformers

    high confidence · Hosts reporting what Stern representatives said during the tour

Notable Quotes

  • “If you like the theme and you like deep and kind of more complex code, I think that's going to be a game for you.”

    Host (Punk Rock Pinball) — Summarizes the group's overall assessment of Transformers as a game for players seeking code depth rather than casual approachability

  • “I just want to experience it. Can you please not [explain things]? This is the only time I'll get to play this game for the very first time.”

    Steven Bowden (player at media event) — Captures a genuine moment between a player and designer Elizabeth (Stern designer) about the emotional experience of first play; hosts highlight this as representative of pinball's magic

  • “Mike is like the only guy in the industry... that does rules for games, but he is not a coder.”

    Host (Punk Rock Pinball) — Identifies Mike Vinikour's unique position in the industry as rules designer without coding background

  • “Pokemon has like nice-looking toys and the Pikachu's really cool. I don't ever look at the Pikachu while I'm playing the game.”

    Host Mike — Emphasizes the disconnect between initial visual impression and long-term gameplay engagement; relevant to broader discussion of toy sculpt quality in Transformers

  • “I think the Pro is the way... because on the Pro you're not missing any shots. Every single shot that exists on the game is on the Pro.”

    Host Mike — Practical advice for potential buyers on trim level choice; highlights value proposition of Pro over Premium

  • “They're going to put the resources and that code is going to get there... just have some patience.”

    Host (Punk Rock Pinball) — Reassures frustrated players about Pokemon code updates based on sales data and Stern's commitment

  • “We wouldn't be doing any of this stuff if we had not gone to Joe and Shelley's house a couple years ago.”

    Host (Punk Rock Pinball) — Traces the origin of the podcast to a casual tournament at Joe and Shelley Sharp's home collection, establishing community roots

  • “Playfield Art was slightly disappointing, but the code and the assets they have in the game seem phenomenal.”

Entities

Joe SharppersonShelley SharppersonPunk Rock Pinball PodcastorganizationStern PinballcompanyTransformers: More Than Meets the EyegamePokemon Pinballgame

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Transformers: More Than Meets the Eye pinball officially released by Stern; media day held at Stern facility allowing hands-on play by content creators and community members

    high · Hosts and guests describe visiting Stern on previous Wednesday to play new Transformers machine; detailed discussion of Pro, Premium, LE trim levels and game features

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Transformers code is significantly deeper and more complex than Pokemon code, requiring hundreds to thousands of plays to master; no players reached wizard mode at media event

    high · Hosts compare their experience: Pokemon code could be mostly understood in 3-5 plays and wizard beaten in 2 balls by Tom Graff, whereas Transformers after 3-4 plays per person no one reached wizard mode

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern currently operating one shift per day with capacity to scale to multiple shifts; approximately 200 employees at facility; hundreds of Pokemon machines in simultaneous production

    high · Hosts describe full assembly lines on both sides, full playfield area, nearly 100 units in final assembly; estimate hundreds of Pokemon machines being made that day

  • ?

    business_signal: Pokemon pinball has strong sales and positive operator feedback; Stern committed to multi-year evolution and code updates despite slow Pokémon Company approval process

    high · Seth stated during presentation that they have plans to evolve Pokemon for years; sales and operator feedback described as 'very good'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Pokémon Company approval process for code updates is lengthy and operates on their own timeline, independent of Stern's development cycle; The Pokémon Company is highly protective of franchise as most valuable IP

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.139

0:00
Hello. There are the snaps. Welcome to the Punk Rock Pinball Podcast episode 49. Might be 50. I think it's 49. Okay. And we have special guests. Our friends. Hey, hey. Hello. Joe and Shelley Sharp, you hear us talk about them all the time. Now you get to see them. Yeah, and they're here for a very special episode because they went on a field trip with us. We went to Stern Pinball. The four of us, we road tripped up last Wednesday to check out the new Transformers. What's the thing after it? More Than Meets the Eye. That's right. More Than Meets the Eye. That's exactly it. So we went up there, we, yeah, we'll get into that. That's what this episode's about. But you wanted to talk about it. Oh yeah, I have, I'm pretty forgetful lately. I just had to do a bunch of SEO content I forgot to do. My brother texted me. I'm like, oh, I better do that. But I've got a new blog series on the website called Pinball Tour Stops where we talk to people in punk bands about their experience in pinball and we have one up right now from John from the Dopamines.
1:28
And we also have one from Scott from the band Pulley. I'll butcher his last name, so I'm not going to say his last name. Scott R from Pulley. He's the singer. He also was like a Major League Baseball player for a minute. Yeah. Did you know that? He was a pitcher. And I've got five or six more in the hopper ready to publish. I'm going to try to publish once per week. So check out punkrockpinball.com. Radinsky? Radinsky. Scott Radinsky, I think is how you say it. Yeah. So thank you, John and Scott. If you want to read about their pinball journey, go to punkrockpinball.com. On the homepage, you can just click the cute little logo for the pinball tour stops. It's cute. Done by our same friend, Brett Mosser, that did these merch designs that Joe and Shelley are prominently displaying here. They're friends and models. All right. So we went up to Stern. Shelley had been there before last year for Expo. Yes. Did the tour, yep. And then this was your first time, Joe, right? Yeah, first tour. I had a good time. First off, I just want to say thanks for inviting us up there. I know you get a couple guests and honored to be up there and really appreciate what you're doing for pinball. I think you guys are great ambassadors for the game and just keep doing what you're doing. Some might say even pillars of the pinball community, yes. Yes. Amazing. Well, you guys have been really good friends, so thank you so much for saying that. But you, well, we've told people before, but for those who haven't followed along on every episode, it is Joe and Shelley who opened our eyes to what is possible in pinball the very first time we went into your house and got to see your incredible collection in your basement. And even more than that, just all the fun that you have in your basement with all of these friends playing pinball. It's just, it's amazing. And like, thank you for doing that and inviting everyone in and we're just kind of taking it in a different direction. But we love you guys. We love you guys. We love you too. Love. Yeah, we wouldn't be doing any of this stuff if we had not gone to Joan Shelley's house a couple years ago when Shelley had posted about a tournament at their house and I asked if I could wear a brewers hat there because it's called Wrigley South and I'm a brewers fan. We were saying, and Shelly didn't know us, so she had to ask a mutual friend, like, are they okay? Who are they? It turns out we were okay, and we played a tournament at Joe and Shelly's house. We had just one pinball machine at the time. Yeah, one. We had just Jaws. And then we're like, holy shit, like people do this at their house. Yeah, I had no idea. We need to do this. And now we have, I don't even know how many we have anymore, 20? I don't know. I think at the time you all had like nine or ten. That sounds right, yeah. How many do you have now? Twenty-four. So the collections, we are pinball rich in Southern, or Central Illinois. Yes. Pinball rich. This whole area. It is pinball rich. In fact, Mike just put a punk rock pinball on the Pinball Map app this week and well, actually, I think tomorrow will be the largest number in Central Illinois. Well, I probably won't add, we've got a lot of new machines coming to the HQ. I probably won't add them until like Thursday, until they're set up. Okay. But we will be the biggest pinball location in central Illinois. So exciting. Within a week. Super cool. I guess it depends on how many new ones McLean adds to their expansion. However many they add, we'll add more. So that we have a higher number. But let's talk about Transformers. More than meets the eye. So if you want to know what's the exact differences between Pro, Premium, LE and the inner details of the game, you should just watch the Retro Ralph video. It's really good. He's got a really slickly produced video that details all of the differences for every trim and we can't make a video that looks like Ralph's, so why try? Why try? We're going to just talk about how we thought our take on the game. And I think we should focus on like the art, the sound package, the shots and layout, the code, and then like the toys. Okay. So those five, like Joe, what's most important to you of those five? Shots. How about you, Shelly? Yeah, I would say shots probably the most important if I had to pick. I'm going to say shots too because I mean if I don't pick shots what I'm thinking about is spinal tap and that is terrible. So like shots. Yeah, and I am the same. So you're going to hear our take as we all said shots because we're pinball players, right? Like we're not. We love the art. We love the sound. But we're not collectors and we don't, I did talk, you know, a year ago about Highstand and look at my games, but like, we play the games. We're players of the games. And all the other stuff is cool and makes a great experience, but like, we just play. So, for all of us, the shots are important. Just note that when we talk about... Yeah, because you guys talk all the time about band games that you don't love the music for, but love the game. Yeah, like Led Zeppelin. Yeah, and if you look at Led Zeppelin, if you like, we don't care for the band, there's virtually no toys in the game. There's like a balloon thing and an Icarus guy that you hit, but there's really no mechs in a Zeppelin Pro, but we love it. So given that, let's start with Joe. What's like kind of your initial feeling and thoughts about Transformers more than meets the eye pinball? I'm really just starting with the shots. I mean, there's maybe three or so that super satisfying. And those would be, I think, using the upper right flipper, then there's a middle shot that feeds a wire form. It's pretty satisfying. The, hey, there's Marshall. There's a, there's just a straight right ramp shot that reminds me a lot of Jurassic Park. I think it's a little steeper, a little tougher to hit, but super satisfying when you get to it. And then maybe that lower shot from the upper right flipper where it's just a dead-end stand-up, but a post pops up and locks the ball there. I think those are my three favorites of the game. Yeah, I like that shot too. I think I only hit it once out of three games. I think it's the extra ball too. Extra balls there. We were trying to remember on the way here if there was even an orbit that fully went around anywhere. We couldn't remember. I don't know if you guys remember. So the right orbit comes back around through the spinner, so it's kind of like a half orbit. Okay. Because it doesn't go all the way around the play field. It kind of goes like maybe about halfway around. And nothing you can go from left to right. I don't think so. Not on the play field level, I don't think. So that's interesting. And you have the, because what would be the far left orbit, that's that little ramp that comes across on the wire form to the right? Yep. So there is no like right orbit and then the, or left orbit, but the right one, it just goes behind Megatron and comes down through the spinner. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Our dog's drinking out of the toilet right now. Yes, he is. Drinking out of the toilet. I mean the artwork, I'm not a huge artwork guy, but I thought it was pretty well done. It reminded me color-wise of X-Men. Yeah, I thought so too. A little dark in the center of the playfield when it comes to lighting and being able to see the ball, but the machine shot well. Nothing about this machine said, hey, I have to go out and buy this right now, but it might be added to the collection down the line. And I forgot to mention like rules and code. You did. No, you said it. I said rules and code? Okay. It's that Lunesta, you know, I take a sleeping pill and I forget things. But because the code, I think, is maybe where it shines the most, would you say? I don't know. After only a couple games, but talking to the people at Stern, they were pretty proud of where the code was compared to other games at release. I am excited to see the two-flipper mode or the team mode. What was it called? Split Flipper. I think that'll be fun. I enjoy doing that. I also think it's cool. They were talking about similar to Jaws. You'll be able to collect coins and then cash them in to do different challenge modes. And there's going to be challenge modes, which I think are fun. And I think those coins, if you're playing on location, will get you like, you can play that for free after the game if you earned enough coins. Oh. Yes, it's supposed to give you an option at the end, do you want to continue and play this alternate mode or whatever, yeah. Yeah, so that would make it cool for location to get a little bit more bang for your buck. That is cool. You've got some coins. And there's also like a trainer mode too. Training. Yeah. Pinball training. I think that's really good for a new player that just wants to get better at hitting certain shots. Yeah, it looks like they don't have it in the game yet, but they had video of like, it'll come up on the LCD like how you hit this shot and where the ball is going to go. Oh, really? On the training, yeah. They showed quick little graphics of that. Yep. So the screen will go and it's like a black playfield with like a red arrow that kind of shows you where to shoot. Okay, that's cool. I want to do that. Somebody's going to get this thing pretty quick. Probably Probably CJ maybe Oh CJ yeah he getting one Okay So there probably be one at like 8 Arcade here in town Awesome Yeah Shelly what did you think about the Transformers I liked it. I thought Stern did a great job. You guys had been there before. I just thought they did a great job with the flow of the day. We were there for about half the time. We could have stayed longer, but we had things to get back to. But being able to have that time where just the four of us were in the room with the premium was nice. It was a little chaotic when some of the other streamers were kind of in your guys's space, I felt like more than mine when I was trying to play and like figure things out. But whatever it is, what it is, they're trying to pack it all in one day. I get it.

  • Hundreds of Pokemon pinball machines were in production on the day of the Stern tour visit

    high confidence · Hosts describing observation of full production lines and shelves of cabinets, playfield assemblies, and final assembly units

  • Mike Vinikour is the only person in the pinball or video game industry who creates rule sets without being a coder

    medium confidence · Host stating this based on conversation with Mike Vinikour during the tour; presented as Mike's own claim about himself

    • Host Mike — Balanced critique of Transformers: acknowledges visual shortcomings but praises gameplay depth

  • “I was initially disappointed by the toys and the mechs in this game... the Optimus sculpt like it just doesn't look good.”

    Host Mike — Specific critique of Transformers toy quality; contextualizes how first impressions (especially online) are shaped by aesthetics rather than gameplay

  • “When a game first comes out, there's almost always a controversy, right?”

    Host (Punk Rock Pinball) — Meta-observation about the pinball community's pattern of initial criticism followed by long-term appreciation as players engage with code

    • Mike Vinikour
    person
    Elizabethperson
    Elliot Eismanperson
    Sethperson
    Kyleperson
    Steven Bowdenperson
    Tom Graffperson
    Retro Ralphperson
    John from the Dopaminesperson
    Scott Radinskyperson
    Brett Mosserperson
    CJperson
    8 Arcadevenue
    Hasbrocompany
    The Pokémon Companycompany
    Punk Rock Pinball (website/HQ)venue
    McLeanvenue

    high · Seth explained at Stern that Pokémon Company has its own process and timeline; hosts note this means patience required for Pokemon code updates

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Hasbro (Transformers IP holder) has been cooperative and easy to work with as licensing partner for Stern Transformers pinball

    medium · Hosts noted Hasbro being 'super easy to deal with' during Stern presentation

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern positioning both Pokemon and Transformers as approachable, family-friendly games to attract new players to pinball; both games feature strong theming and accessible shot layouts

    high · Hosts note both games are 'super approachable' with shots that new/casual players can make; Transformers described as 'super family friendly' like Pokemon

  • ?

    product_concern: Transformers toy sculpts and mechs criticized as underwhelming compared to original Transformers figures; only Soundwave mech sculpt received positive assessment

    high · Host Mike detailed disappointment with Optimus Prime and Grimlock sculpts compared to original toys; notes initial impressions influenced by aesthetics when watching online

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Hosts prioritize shot layout and code depth over visual aesthetics; argue that while first impressions are shaped by toy sculpts and art, gameplay matters more long-term

    high · Extensive discussion of prioritizing shots over art/toys; hosts established at outset that they value shots as most important factor due to being 'players not collectors'

  • ?

    community_signal: Punk Rock Pinball establishing content series 'Pinball Tour Stops' interviewing musicians about pinball; expanding from podcast to blog content with weekly publication schedule

    high · Hosts announce new blog series on website with features on John from Dopamines and Scott Radinsky from Pulley; planning weekly publication with 5-6 more in queue

  • ?

    venue_signal: Punk Rock Pinball HQ planning significant machine additions to become largest pinball venue in Central Illinois within one week; currently at 24 machines

    high · Hosts discussing new machines coming to HQ; plan to add to Pinball Map app Thursday once set up; will exceed McLean's expansion to maintain lead

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Growing appreciation for Mike Vinikour's unique position and contributions to pinball code design; hosts highlight his work on multiple acclaimed titles and his role at Stern

    medium · Extensive discussion of Mike's unique status as rules designer without coding background; praise for his code on James Bond, John Wick, and other titles; Joe Sharp's 'hard-hitting questions' led to deeper understanding of his journey

    • 12:17
    So along with what Joe said about not being able to really learn the code too deeply at the time was fine. I kind of expected you need to get here a long time later with it. It didn't feel light. It wasn't like, oh, this is missing. Right. And I did hear other people comment about how they were so impressed with where the code was, but I was like, I don't, my brain doesn't work like that, where I can learn it that quickly. And some of them seem to have picked up on it really quickly and be able to talk to Elizabeth more intelligently about it than I was able to. Well, she gave us the benefit of the doubt. I feel like she was like talking really hard, especially to you. I think, Joe, like you were asking her some questions and then she was saying, well, you guys know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm standing there like, no, we don't know what you're saying. Yeah. But probably one of my favorite parts of the day was being able to sit down with Mike Vinacore and get his story. Joe was asking him these amazing questions about his like pinball journey. And like, I learned so much about him from that conversation. And that was cool to see how he ended up at Stern. And I mean, he made one of our favorite games bond. So, yes, he did. Yes. Well, it's so funny because Mike and I were talking about that. Like, move over Janet Davies, who doesn't work at Channel 7 in Chicago anymore, but whoever that person is, like, Joe Sharp comes in with the hard-hitting questions. They were really good. I wish I had the lav mics on those guys and was recording them. It was really an interesting conversation just about the business and Mike's pinball journey to how he got to this really unique position at Stern. I think he's kind of like a unicorn, kind of. Yeah. Because Mike is like the only guy in the industry, which he told Joe, that does rules for games, but he is not a coder.
    14:02
    So, I mean, he works in a collaborative nature anyway, but like he's forced to because he has all the ideas for the rules he did, James Bond. He's working on Uncanny X-Men now. He's got John Wick to 1.0. But he's the only person in pinball or video gaming that we know that is not a coder, but he just comes up with rules. And a lot of his rule sets, I think, are maybe some of the best in pinball. Yeah, big time. Hard to beat the James Bond code as it stands. The John Wick at 1.0 is fantastic. Yeah. So kudos to you, Mike. You worked on Stranger Things. You worked on Stranger Things a little bit. Yeah, I think Mike's had a hand in a lot of different games. He did the expression lights for Zeppelin. Still got to buy those, Mike. We don't have them yet. He's been telling us we have to get the expression lights for Zeppelin. He'll install them. He's going to install them. Yeah. He's committed. We can't beat that. But maybe if we have Mike down for an interview, which we will one day, we'll have to have Joe come and ask some of these hard-hitting questions. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I was just super interested in the business side and people's stories and just learning as much as I can while I'm up there. Yeah, they were just like very interesting questions and I feel like we learned a lot there too about, you were asking questions about, you know, the people that work there and like how many shifts are they running and like they were very interesting questions that we learned they run one shift a day. For now. So if everybody buys more, they could run one, two, three. Yeah, I think they have the ability. They are cranking out those Pokemons. That was another thing that like really stuck out to me when I did the tour before and they were cranking out Fodi and a couple other games, but there was not nearly as many games on the floor that were like in production than they were that day we went and all those Pokemons and all the little Pikachus and Pokeballs lined up on the shelves. That was crazy. I put some video that you can put in there. Yeah, yeah, I think I will put that video up. We both took some, yeah. It was pretty impressive because when we went before, yeah, it was, there were, they were doing Jaws and it was kind of, seemed like a lot. Yeah. But not compared to, I mean, the parking lot was full when we first showed up. There was like barely any parking. And man, there were, I think they say, they, Kyle said they have like 200 people that work in the, around 200 people. It wasn't an exact number that work in the plant. Yep. It's bonkers. I think they were all working that day. Yeah, I think it's safe to say like going down both sides of the line, there were hundreds of Pokemon pinball machines being made that day, like hundreds. Mm-hmm. Because in the cabinet area, that was just full. The play field assembly line is full. And then at the end where they're all put together, there had to have been almost a hundred over there at the end. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And in the kind of presentation at the very beginning, before we went on the tour, Seth had said that Pokemon, like they are planning, they have plans, correct me if I'm wrong if you guys heard it differently, but to do stuff to evolve the game for years. He said years. Yeah, the sales and operator feedback was very good in terms of how the game is selling, how it's being played on location. So if you're frustrated about waiting for Pokemon code, like I'd say just have some patience because that has sold so much that you know they're going to put the resources and that code is going to get there.
    17:35
    And I think because you also mentioned with Transformers that Hasbro has been super easy to deal with. Yeah, that was interesting. And with Pokemon, it basically happens on their time. You know, you're going to get the approvals from the Pokemon company in Japan when they're ready to give it to you. They have their process. Uh-huh. They have, yes, he did say that. Like, we have our process, they have their process, and their process takes time. Mm-hmm. And I think they're very protective of that franchise as being the most valuable IP in the history of the world. Yep. So you might cut them some slack there because they've been smart about that, but let's hear your take on Transformers Pinball. Mine? Yeah. Well, I was going to say that one of the things about the Transformers that they said it's a $30 billion total franchise in total franchise sales bigger than DC, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, G.I. Joe, and He-Man. I think He-Man, is that also Hasbro? I don't think so. Oh, because they have a big thing going on right now. Hasbro has Magic the Gathering. Well, and My Little Pony. Anyways, I thought the game was really fun and approachable. So similar to Pokemon, I feel like this has shots that you can make if you're a newish player or just not, you know, maybe you haven't been playing as long. It seems super approachable like Pokemon. So I think they're on this cool path to bring more people into Pinball with these two latest releases. So I think that's really cool. I think the thematic of Transformers, even if you didn't grow up doing it, I think it's going to attract kids the same way that Pokemon is with the toys in there. It's super family friendly, I'll say. So I think it's going to be a good follow up to Pokemon. Yeah, I agree. I want to keep playing it. I have one. I have a whole box of these in the garage. This is Blaster. Meet Blaster. He is like, the guy in the game is Soundwave. He's the evil Decepticon version of the tape deck. This is the Autobot version. He's like the good guy. And this is supposed to open but it's broke. This toy is probably from 1984. 1984 I got this toy. Vintage. You have a whole box of them? Yeah. Yeah, I probably have. At one point I had like 200 Transformers toys. I had pretty much all of them. Except for I never had Megatron. I didn't like that he just turned into a gun. Because I like, you know, the cars and the planes, you do battles, like he's just the gun that's sitting there. He needs something to operate the gun. Makes sense. Yeah. So that's not a T-Move version of it? No, this is a real one. This Hasbro 1984. Yeah. The other day, Mike's like, I think that might be like a knockoff version, like a T-Move. Because this one came out like a couple of years. The first ones I got were probably in a few years prior to this and I had more metal on them. And then they started getting kind of more plasticky. I told Mike you should have brought this and like walked in. Retro Ralph would have been so jealous. No, I agree. Definitely the theme, they did a good job bringing it into Pinball and I mean the music. I wasn't big into Transformers, but you could tell people there were big into Transformers and they were pretty excited about it. Seems like the Moes they have created and I'm going to forget the proper name for it, but like every one of these guys when you get this toy on the box that has like tech specs, which basically like tells you how tough it is. And I can't remember what but there's like strength and agility and like all that stuff. And there's all these tech spec targets around the play field. And I'm also kind of a slow learner with Pinball code, so I would need probably 50 plays on the game to really know. But it felt like it's all in there. Where you compare that to the code on Pokemon when we did the launch day for that. I played Pokemon that day maybe three or four times and like I knew the game. And I had done like almost every mode in the game within my first three to five plays of the game. In Transformers, I played three games. I think we each probably played three or four games. And I still don't have a clue, but to me that's like a good thing, is that it's going to have a lot of depth and it's going to take you a lot of plays to learn it. And then probably hundreds to thousands of plays to master that code. Yeah. Where, you know, we watched Tom Graff basically beat the Pokemon code that existed on that day. In like two balls. And I would always guarantee nobody at the media day, like, beat the wizard, got to the wizard mode in this Transformers. Like, I didn't see anybody do it. I know some folks stayed later. And there are some great players there, but I, it's just not a game that you're going to walk up to second time and get to the wizard mode on Transformers. So if you like the theme and you like deep and kind of more complex code, I think that's going to be a game for you. I want it at some point. I don't want to buy a brand new one. Well we got other stuff on the horizon But I also keep thinking about is it Steve Bowden Bowden Bowden He was playing the game I think with me you and Mike You weren in that game were you No, he was. Yeah, Joe was in that. Joe was playing. Okay. So we were playing and he was, it was his very first game, all of our very first game on Transformers. And Elizabeth was kind of explaining stuff as he was doing, you know, going through the game. And he kind of trapped up for a second and said, like, can you please not in a very nice way? Yeah. Can you please like be I don't I this is the only time I'll get to play this game for the very first time. I just want to experience it. And she was like, oh, my gosh. Yes, absolutely. But I think she was so excited to to finally, after probably several years of working on this game, getting to see real people, real pinball players engage with her game. Those two moments were really kind of awesome to see happen at the exact same time. Her excitement about him seeing it and his excitement about seeing it and playing it for the first time. And that's kind of the magic of pinball, isn't it? Yeah, I was jealous. I wanted her to be telling me what the code was on my first game. How many chances of the designer of the code are you going to have whispering in your ear? Now hit that. Now hit that. Now you've qualified this. Yeah, that was pretty awesome. Yeah. Anyways, I give, so what about you, Mike? What do you think? I would give the game like a thumbs up. I initially, and this is the thing about like the gimmicks and the toys and the mechs, right? It's like the thing that you see first. And ultimately, long term to me, they matter almost zero, but like the first impression of a game, I was initially disappointed by the toys and the mechs in this game. Like, I don't think the sculpts look very good. The Grimlock dinosaur, like, the Transformer toy that I had of him is like way, way cooler than that. Optimus Prime toy is way cooler looking than that mech. The only mech that, the toy that looks good is the Soundwave looks pretty good. Because you like the tape deck guy? I like him and they did a good job of like doing a sculpt of him but the Optimus sculpt like it just doesn't look good. Neither does Grimlock and Megatron's like eh. So initially I was like a little bit disappointed. Mm-hmm. But then when you start to play the game, and in the long term, you know, Pokemon has like nice-looking toys and the Pikachu's really cool. I don't ever look at the Pikachu while I'm playing the game, looking at the shots. Yeah. But when you just first walk up to the game, you don't know it, you haven't played it, and I'm looking at it, and I'm like, those don't look as cool as my toys.
    26:00
    So I was initially slightly bummed. Okay. Well, I think the art package is great, especially on the LE, the back glass on the LE is perfect if you came from growing up with a TV show. They're all like running at ya. It's like LE art package is great. All the art, like the back glass on all three I think is really good and the cabinet art. The playfield to me I wish was done by more of like a single artist. I feel like the playfield is kind of just like gridded. It's not as much of like a little... If you look at like Pokemon, and that might not have been a single artist, but there's little dudes hidden all over. Maybe Transformers has that, but it's darker. So I need to see that more in the light. But if I compare Transformers Playfield Artwork to, say, Jaws, it's not close, which is better. Jaws is way better. So Playfield Art was slightly disappointing, but the code and the assets they have in the game seem phenomenal. And the shot layout is super dynamic and I think will take a very long time to master. And it's a game I would probably like to play 500 to 700 times at least. Okay. That's a good point about the sculpts. I mean, those are going to outweigh people's opinion before they play the game, right? Yeah. Because that's what they see, right? They're not in front of a live game figuring out the code. So I never thought of it like that. And if you're just watching a video online, you're just seeing those. And there was a whole controversy about whether or not Optimus transforms. I saw that too, yeah. People are very upset. Yeah. The intent was that there was going to be a Transforming Optimus and they took it out because, I don't know if that's a fact or not, but they took it out because it didn't work. I guess I'd rather them take it out if it doesn't work. You don't want to have a game that is breaking all the time. You can leave it to the modders. And a modder will probably fix that. Someone's going to figure it out. And modders will probably make better versions of all those. There will be a cool Grimlock you can buy for the game. And then I initially thought like, well, I like the premium better because it's got the dude that shoots and you can lock the balls. But then I've thought about that since and I think on this one the pro is the way. Oh. Because on the pro you're not missing any shots. Every single shot that exists on the game is on the pro. Really? Yes. So you don't have a physical ball lock, it's virtual, like whoop-de-doo. The dude doesn't shoot the ball out of the thing. Right. So I guess that is sort of a shot that doesn't exist on the pro. Yeah. It's the same shot though, it's just that upper right ramp. Yeah. So you can hit that shot. So it's not like Jaws where you have an upper play field where you have like five cool modes, like mini modes, like super spinners and shark combos. Jaws are missing a whole chunk of the game and the code. Transformers, it's all there on a pro. That's a good point. So unless you're married to having to have a physical ball lock and the dude shoot the ball, there's like really no difference between the two. Okay. So I think if you're frugal folks like Steph and I, pro is going to be your way. Use pro. I'm surprised, you know, so Elliot Eisman's the guy who designed Wick and he's the designer on the Transformers. And when Wick came out, everyone was losing their mind that there was no gun, right? I remember that. There were no guns! So, Elliot Eisman gets to put a gun basically with Optimus in this machine and not only is there a gun, but he's shooting at you. Yeah, he does. Like, that's kind of awesome. When a game first comes out, there's almost always a controversy, right? Like, Wick didn't have a gun. Shark didn't eat the ball in Jaws. What was the thing about King Kong? Did King Kong have one? It's more just the art. The art. But I just feel like the initial impressions online, especially with a lot of content creators, it's like falls so hard on like the looks. And Joe and I talked about this yesterday at his house a little bit because they just got a Dune pinball machine. Congratulations. Thank you. But you have Dune sitting right next to your King Kong LE. And if a regular person were to walk up, stand in front of those two games, and if I ask them, which game do you think looks more expensive, what are they going to say? What's the nicer looking game between King Kong? I don't know, we'll do the Pepsi challenge on this thing. What would you say? We're over. What would you say? Comment below. Because I think Dune looks like it should cost five grand more than a Kong LE. It just looks like a higher end game.
    31:03
    It's got, well, you're Kong- It's a great shooting game, but I would still long term rather play Kong.
    31:09
    You know? Like, if you had to pick, I know Dune's new for you, but if you had to, if I was going to break your arm and you had to give away one game, are you keeping Kong or are you keeping Dune? I'd break out of this arm lock. That's awesome. Or like, you've just eaten a pill. J.J.P. And you're going to die tomorrow if you don't relinquish Kong or Dune. J.J.P. I don't know. I haven't been to the end of Dune yet. J.J.P. Well, it's Sophie's choice. J.J.P. This is a tough question, Cheryl. J.J.P. Don't do this to me. J.J.P. This is a tough question. J.J.P. We're never coming back on the show again. J.J.P. He's going to keep King Kong. J.J.P. Okay. J.J.P. He's going to keep King Kong. J.J.P. How about you, Shelley? Which are you keeping? J.J.P. I do love Kong. I have to say Kong because I just don't know enough about Dune yet. You've eaten a poison pill. You're going to die. You have to give one up. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I haven't played Dune as much, so I want to play that more. Marshall's making his presence known. And Dune's great. Dune is great. They're both great. But yes, Dune has a different, like the Barrels of Fun have a different kind of look to them. And maybe it's just that, that you've seen the Stern so much. It's like, okay, that feels, it looks like a Stern. And Barrels of Fun has kind of come out with their own vibe to it, and it just looks different. It does. And so I think you're like super jazzed about it looking different. It looks different. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Like both the Winchester and the Dune. And like J.J.P. also, I think their top trends has a higher end look than almost any of the Stern games. I don't know why. I don't know, but I'll shoot on a stern. They pack the toys in there. They have like the shiny sticker cabinets, the lighting, their lighting, the barrels of fun lighting inside the playfield is phenomenal. Well, I think it's cool, we got to play on the LE of the Transformers and they did the lights, the same kind of lights on that one, which I think makes it look really cool. Yeah, because you can see the ball a bit better on the Transformers LE. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. And I know MXB hates them, but like, I mean, I suppose, I feel like a Transformers Pro almost needs like the pin lights or something. Mike will yell at me in these comments, it washes out your game. They suck. Well, what you can do is you can just buy those expression lights. You can buy the Stern ones, Mike. We'll get the Stern ones, we won't wash out our game. No. Because I forgot on the Pro now you can get them. Okay. So on the Stern Spike 3s, you can buy the Expression Lights for the Pro. That's cool. So get yourself a Pro and the Stern Expression Lights inside. Lighting's key. Good shots, good lighting, because you can't make your good shots if you can't see it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's why KJ got his little flashlight for only four, was it Munsters? Munsters, yeah. Puts his little light on Munsters. It does help. Marshall's in his seat now. So if you're gonna give a grade, overall grade on Transformers the Pinball Machine, A, B, C, D, what do you say? I'm gonna say B+. B+, Shelley? I'd say B. Solid B. Solid B? I give it a B plus to an A minus I gonna give it an A minus Because of the I think just from the taste of the code I think the code gonna be I think it going to be like Fall of the Empire Jaws level where you want to play it again and get to see these things Well my B-plus has room to grow because we only played it a couple of times. But yeah, I think it's gonna be great. The code is gonna be super awesome. Like I think you said, Joe or Shelley, And Stern's very proud that this is a game that's being shipped with like the most complete code Seth said in years. They're going to start shipping out I think this week. Yeah. They said end of May, early June, so that's right now. I think Elizabeth said the code was 95%. Like in the game right now it's like 95% done. Yeah, we didn't get to see the split flipper so that's probably part of the missing five. It's going to be fun. In the split flipper, it's a mode where one person plays one flipper, the other person plays one plays the left, one plays the right, and you're against each other. Mm-hmm. So like the... You each have a color assigned to you. If you hit your color, it's good. If you hit the other person's color, it's bad. So you want to hit your color. Yep. So I think the Autobots, it's the red arrows and the Decepticons, purple arrows. And then you're trying to... And there's a battle, I think it's Optimus and Megatron maybe fighting on the screen. It's like two Transformers fighting on the screen and when you win the other guy dies on the video. There's something similar in the game for the non-split flipper mode, right? Isn't that a multiball or a versus? I could see some wacky tournament formats where we would, if there's a playoff, I don't know how IFPA feels about this, but I know how Punk Rock Pinball feels about this. It's gonna be fine to have a playoff, like if we're tied for like a finals cut, then me and Joe have to go head to head on Transformers like one handed. That's great. See how it goes. I love this. I think that'd be fun. It would be fun. And quick, probably. It should be quick, right? Yeah. Playoff? Totally. And then the action button lights... You have to fight for it somehow. And it must light, you must have to figure out what shot it's gonna hit. Yeah. Because it's either going to hit like one of yours or one of the others. Oh, I thought that's how you do the upper flipper. Is it? I thought that's what he said. Oh, yes, it is. It is the upper flipper. The action button does the upper flipper on that mode.
    37:15
    So I guess if the upper flipper- You're going to be fighting for that action button, right? I'm blocking.
    37:20
    If the upper flipper is like going to be a shot that's going to kill you, you'd have to like body out your opponent. So there will be a whole new set of rules for the tournaments that use that game, like about physicality. Yes. Oh my gosh, that's going to be fun. All right, so hopefully CJ gets one of these in a couple weeks. We can really deep dive on it and maybe we'll have to come back with a part two once we've each played it, like, had some private time. Yeah, I definitely want to talk more about this game after, like none of us have played a single player game on the game. And our time, our alone time with the game was like very short. The conjugal visit. We had a conjugal visit with the game, just us and the game. With four of us. Uh huh. I mean, hey. No, no judgment here. But we didn't even really get to fully complete the four player game. No. We're like waiting right outside the... Yeah. It was like kind of just half-assed. I think we all kind of half-assed our third ball. Yeah, we did. One thing that enlightened me, it always does when we go to these media days is that like how much like we're not really content creators. And you guys probably just, you saw how everybody's doing like... Yeah, that's what Shelly was mentioning, put the camera on the play field while you're playing or in your face or whatever. Yeah. They're just filming everything. They're running all around, filming all kinds. We did get MXV talking about Funhouse. Mm-hmm. And Dave Heggie. So, and Dave Heggie and Retro Ralph. So we created some content. Mm-hmm. But, and then they're like, they get their content out right away. Mm-hmm. So, like... That's not you. That's not us. No. We don't play that game. So we just sit up in here and we talk about it? Well, I wouldn't say that we're necessarily content creators. Right. Like, there are, like, social media content creators. That's not us. Mm-mm. But that's not, that day was a media day. Yeah. So social media people included. So there was the guy from Pinball News. Yeah. Our friends from. He's gonna go back and write an article. Yeah. So it's okay that we don't, like, totally ham it up. Yeah, it makes you feel, I'm like, are we like posers here? We just have a podcast. And a lot of these people, not only are they content creators, they're really good at it. Very good. I don't know if you guys watched the Ralph video that came out about Transformers. It's like top notch. It came out a day or two ago. So slick. It's got like animated graphics. I know that's Mason does a lot of that. His camera guy that he brings with him. Because Ralph's got a camera guy. He's serious about it. And an editor guy. And I always forget the name of the Dirty Pool guy. Well, you guys have a pretty big crew here. I mean, I was, you know, in the green room talking to the makeup and producer people. Yeah. Camera guy back there. The catering was top notch. Thank you. Marshall, you know, Marshall's coming up to check on everybody. Mm-hmm. Do you need anything? Support dog. Yeah. It was, yeah, it's cool to see the behind the scenes of the content creator stuff because it is wild. Mm-hmm. But everyone there really doing it because they're passionate about pinball. Yeah. Which is cool. Yeah. And I think every time I leave those media events too, I just kind of have an even more respect for everybody who's like bringing those games to life at Stern. Like just, and I'm always just kind of blown away too, walking through the facility that, I don't know, maybe it is if you smile at someone, they smile back at you. But the people throughout the whole organization just seem pretty happy. Everybody has good days and bad days. I get it. But it seems like it's a pretty nice place to work. Yeah, it seems like you go in there and you feel like it's a happy place. And even on the line that people did, they seemed like pretty happy doing what they were doing. And you can get a vibe on a workplace when you go in. Yeah. Yeah, we're screaming at each other and have a good vibe. It's just really nice of Stern to allow for media day. I mean, there's like 35 or 40 people and then, you know, bugging all the employees with questions and have to take us on a tour and all that. It's just really, I really appreciated Stern letting us do that. Totally agree. It's really cool. And I think it's somewhat disruptive to the factory when we're touring. There's people I have to kind of wait for the group to go through and they're carrying in like a thing. So it's cool that they do that. And it is really cool to see that facility and like how many games they can crank through. Because there's nobody else in the world that can even come close to the numbers they can put out. Nope. And that's just today. Wait till they get a second and third ship. Yeah. Can't wait. Crank them out. They need to bring Joe Sharp into their sales organization over there. And got some big ideas to really grow pinball at a scale that's never been seen before, right? And do some corporate partnerships with Hilton and some others. Oh yeah, we'll have to do a follow up to those ideas. We kind of figured something out that afternoon. I do think it should be a thing where there should be pinball machines in hotel lobbies, especially the ones like the Home Two Suites and the True by Hilton. In the True, they're trying to make this vibe in the lobby where it's all about trying to get you to hang in the lobby. There's like a foosball table and like a bar. Put some pinballs in there. We were touring a lot like a year and a half ago and Ruben and I was like, how cool would it be? There are like two pinball machines down there. It's like a Jaws and a Godzilla. I'd be down there until 2am. Sometimes 6am when I can't sleep. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah, we have it all figured out. Any Stern employee who's listening, just give us a call. We have it all figured out. You're probably thinking, who's going to maintain it? We have it figured out. That all worked out. You're not going to talk about the pinball airline?
    43:42
    We got it figured out. Oh my gosh. All right. Anything else? Any final words? Shelly? I don't think so. Thanks for having us. Thanks again for having us. Thanks for coming. Yeah, thanks for coming. Are we the first non-musical guest? Yes. Okay, awesome. Yeah, you are. These are our first pinball guests. Yeah. The other guest we've had is Deanna from Sincere Engineer. Yeah. So, yeah. And it's cool because if you watch this show regularly or listen, like we talk about Joe and Shelley almost every episode. Mm-hmm. So now here they are. You got to see them. They're real people. Mm-hmm. They're not your imaginary friends. No. No, they exist. Mm-hmm. We didn't have any of these friends. They were all just made up. Oh, my God. That would be really sad. That would be next level. It would be so sad. All right. Well, I'm also at some point this week going to edit up the Funhaus tutorials. I'm not going to put it as part of this. No, that will be its own episode. Oh, yeah. Maybe. A bonus. And I've got to make a couple that John won't have to make louder. I'll have to make John's louder. That looks and sounds really good. Thank you, John. Mike's is great. And I will give a teaser. I've been playing Funhaus the way Mike said. We were going to not watch any of these, but I filmed it so I know what he said. And I've been doing a lot better. All right. Because I would struggle a lot of times to break like two or three million and I played two games the way Mike said and it was like seven million one time and 12 million another time. And we're going to share that tip with you. And you'll get to see it straight from Mike's mouth the way that he would play it. Yeah, it took him like 20 seconds. I don't even know what Dave Heggie said. Dave Heggie said essentially exactly what Mike did, but he didn't know the right names for everything. All right. He's a good pinball player. So we could put the Dave Heggie one like first, and then we could put Mike's and say like, this is what Dave was trying to say. Because Dave hasn't played Funhausen forever. Like he knew, I think it's called this. And he was basically describing exactly what Mike was trying to say to do. Okay. So Dave knows how to play Funhausen and will likely beat you. For sure. I'd like to see Dave Hagee versus MXB on Funhouse. Come on down. We'll do it at the HQ. Yeah, we'll stream that. Grudge match. Okay. All right. Ideas were born. More stuff to come. That's it. Thank you, Joan Shelley. Thank you. Toodaloo. Bye.