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The Spinner Is Lit - Episode 60 Bye Bye 2023 (1)

The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·2h 28m·analyzed·Dec 24, 2023
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Hosts share restoration wins, tournament triumphs, and recent game acquisitions heading into 2024.

Summary

The Spinner Is Lit hosts discuss their December pinball activities, including Dan's successful restoration of a Bram Stoker's Dracula machine (fixing the broken Mist Multiball mechanism), his recent Transformers Pro acquisition, and Mark's team league victory and new James Bond Pro purchase. The conversation covers restoration techniques, tournament results, and code update appreciation.

Key Claims

  • Bram Stoker's Dracula Mist Multiball was fixed after six months of non-functionality by identifying a broken solder joint in the switch matrix, combined with faulty optos.

    high confidence · Dan describing his restoration project in detail during the podcast, explaining the troubleshooting process with Rick.

  • Transformers Pro is rarer than LE versions; most home Transformers machines are LEs (Decepticon or combo LE), with Pros primarily appearing in commercial locations like movie theaters.

    medium confidence · Dan discussing Transformers availability and variants, mentioning he's only seen one Transformers Pro on location.

  • Stern released exactly three games in 2011: Transformers, Tron, and Rolling Stones.

    high confidence · Dan confirming after looking it up during the podcast discussion about 2011 releases.

  • James Bond Pro code update .97 represents significant rules progression, with potential for .99 or 1.0 releases.

    medium confidence · Mark discussing his recent James Bond Pro acquisition and code update reception.

  • Mark's team league (Bank Shot team) finished season one undefeated enough to skip the fifth round (Saw Ball) due to accumulated points.

    high confidence · Mark describing their tournament playoff run and finals victory.

Notable Quotes

  • “whoever designed this mechanism was either an absolute genius or a certified wacko”

    Dan @ ~5:00 — Dan's colorful assessment of the Mist Multiball mechanism complexity on Bram Stoker's Dracula.

  • “the moral of the story is, you know, always check your basics”

    Dan @ ~12:00 — Core troubleshooting lesson from the restoration project—broken solder joint in switch matrix was the root cause.

  • “I'm always the most comfortable finding a crappy game for $2,500, $3,000 and fixing it up”

    Dan @ ~20:00 — Philosophy of low-buck restoration and the satisfaction of getting games running rather than perfect.

  • “the way that the code has progressed from the beginning of the game to where it is now is highly addicting”

    Mark @ ~52:00 — Praise for James Bond Pro's code evolution and rules depth.

  • “It forced me to run the playbook... forced me to stay on the topic”

    Dan @ ~13:00 — Value of having a second person (Rick) to maintain focus during complex troubleshooting.

Entities

DanpersonSpencerpersonMarkpersonRickpersonDarren VaughtpersonAlex LambertpersonKendrapersonAdam PresslerpersonCheddarperson

Signals

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Dan's successful Bram Stoker's Dracula Mist Multiball repair demonstrates systematic troubleshooting approach: identifying bad optos, checking connectors, walking switch matrix, and finding broken solder joint as root cause.

    high · Dan's detailed walkthrough of the six-hour repair session with Rick, including the methodical process of elimination that led to the broken solder discovery.

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Presence of second technician (Rick) significantly improved troubleshooting quality and forced adherence to proper methodology rather than shortcuts.

    high · Dan explicitly states: 'having Rick there... a second set of hands a second set of eyes is always key to fixing some of these hard problems' and credits the collaboration with forcing him to 'run the playbook' correctly.

  • ?

    collector_signal: Transformers Pro is notably rare compared to LE variants; primary distribution was commercial (movie theaters) rather than home/collector market.

    medium · Dan states: 'The rare one. I've only seen one Transformers Pro on location. But I believe that they were big time in, like, movie theaters' and notes that all home machines he's seen are LEs.

  • ?

    community_signal: Active local tournament scene with league finals, team leagues, and regional tournaments (Folsom Finals) supporting competitive play across multiple venues and formats.

    high · Discussion of league finals at Adam's house, team league at Press Start, Folsom Finals, and Dan's regular league night participation.

  • ?

    code_update: James Bond Pro receiving progressive code updates (.97 current, potential .99 or 1.0 expected); updates enhancing rules variety and mode creativity.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.446

0:00
Hey, welcome to the Spinner is Lit Pinball Podcast, Episode 60, Bye Bye 2023. I'm your host Spencer, and with me as always are Dan. Hey, what's going on guys? Hey, Mark. Merry Christmas, everyone.
0:32
Yes, yes. Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah. Wait, it's December? It's December, yeah. It's December. Can you believe that? It's the end of the year. I can't believe that. Yeah, that's crazy, man. Absolutely crazy.
0:48
So everybody's off from, well, you're off from work right now, right, Mark? Not yet. You got one more week. You got another week? Oh, wow. The boys, probably it was their last day for two weeks. So, nope, we go all the way until Thursday and then we are off. Well, actually, technically, the kids are off on Thursday and then Friday is when we have our last day. So, yeah, it's not a lot of time between when we get off and then when Christmas Day is actually scheduled. So, yeah, it's kind of interesting. So it's like everybody's going to get off and have to jump on a plane and head to grandma's. Yeah, pretty much. I feel like the holiday break used to be longer It does, doesn't it? Yeah I know, it's weird I remember about like, you know, Christmas vacation when you were in school was like half of the month Felt like it, didn't it? Now it's like two days before Christmas, you know, you get to go home It's like, oh, well, that's great, thanks guys Yeah, exactly Well, it's great to be back I know we've been all busy, but it's pretty awesome to talk with you guys again. It has actually been a very busy pinball month, I think, for at least a couple of us. Yeah, I know, Darren, you and I were talking earlier. Both of you guys have been busy, but you've really been cranking it out. Yeah, so I've got some game room news. Obviously, I've updated a couple times on the website about Project BSD, which was the mostly kind of working Bram Stoker's Dracula that I picked up about six months back. And that was a game that, you know, I think Bram Stoker's Dracula wasn't super appreciated in its day, but it's an absolutely brutal player. It's a wonderful league kind of game, a wonderful competition kind of game. and this one specifically the Miss Multiball didn't work and I'm sure I've shared my opinion of the Miss Multiball on the show before but just to recap whoever designed this mechanism was either an absolute genius or a certified wacko like seriously it's just it's a lot of little things that need to work in concert. It's two game-controlled gates. It's a big magnetic mechanism. It's a bunch of optos. It's a special shooter lane. And when I got the game, you know, I never had a BSD with working Miss Multiball, so I really didn't know how it was supposed to work. So my theory of operation on it was all bad. And it took really just – I tore the game semi down, kind of trying to troubleshoot it, and I got rebuffed, and I just sort of disabled it. And the gameplay is fine, arguably better with it disabled, because Miss Multiball is kind of a weird mechanism, a weird sort of mode. But you dive on into it and start watching videos and start reading websites, and there were some wonderful write-ups. I wish I had written down the names for the people who've tackled this before. and what I ended up coming up with was the problem is the long throw opto. There's an opto that goes all the way across the play field and it has like a special board and a couple dedicated optos. And I started there and there's a board, which on my game had already been replaced. And so I'm like, I'm sure it's not that board, but everyone's like, oh, no, it's that board. I'm like, it's probably not that board. The moral of the story is, you know, always check your basics. I was sitting there looking at the game, and, you know, we had started doing the airbrushing. Brian was working on the airbrushing, and I was sort of puttering around with this coin door. I did a coin door for it. And Rick comes over, and he sees that, you know, we have the game sitting in the shop spot. And he's like, oh, you know, hit me up, you know, when you're going to start working on this game. I'd love to walk through it with you. So I call Rick one day, and I'm talking like 9 in the morning. And I say, hey, bro, I'm going to start working on this game. You want to be here in an hour? And he's like, yeah. So Rick's here at like 10 o'clock with bells on. And we start the teardown. And we pull out the ramps and we lift out everything you need to get out of the way, which is quite a bit of the game. And we get to the optos. And I say, my theory is that this upper opto is bad. I've already replaced the lower opto. But I'm going to replace both optos. So we replace both optos. We wire them up. We put them in. We do not get missed multi-ball, but we look at the board. The board has a little light, and the little light says, hey, you're getting a beam. And so then we know it's not the optos, and it's probably not the board. So we start looking at the connector, and the connector ends up being fine. It's wired right. So then we walk down the switch matrix. We grab the – actually, let me go back a step. We look at the connector. We look at the connector up to the board, and we tone it out, and we find out that we don't have a connection. And so we walk down the switch matrix, and all the switches that are in line with that switch, and like the first one we check, broken wire, you know, just a broken solder. Touched up that solder. The long throw opto worked, registered in the game. The game would run through the missed sequence. We got everything put back together. We got the gates put back together. And now we have a 99% working missed multi-ball because one of the controlled gates is a little wonky. I got a spring I need to replace on it. Wow. So you're saying that it was just a wire? It was a wire that was not soldered properly? No, I don't think it was just the wire. I do think that the optos were bad because I don't remember getting even the test lights to illuminate originally. but I think that the wire was what was probably causing the problem between the game and the board. So, oh man, it was, and, and, you know, I've had this game for six months. People had the game for years before me that went through two or three different league members and it never worked, but it was just, I think it was two things, you know, number one, it was just knowing the basics of how to go through and troubleshoot all the stuff that like Brian's taught me, all the stuff that, that, you know, everyone's taught me about like get out your meter check your continuity be organized but the other thing really that did help me was having Rick there because first of all a second set of hands a second set of eyes is always key to fixing some of these hard problems and because I was kind of walking him through like hey this is how you take a game apart this is how you troubleshoot a problem it forced me to run the playbook. You know, it forced me to do it right and not take shortcuts. And, you know, I'll, like, look at a problem, then I'll go to the Internet to look up something about it, and then I'll start looking at something else, and then I'll go grab a snack, and then I'll go play a game. It forced me to kind of stay on the topic. Rick and I, like, walked away on that game for, like, six hours that night or eight hours that night. We weren't done until, like, six in the evening. But it was because we finished the missed multiball, and then we finished putting the game back together, and then it turned out that we had an opto that was bad, which really wasn't an opto. It was a connector that Cheddar came over and repinned for me a couple days later. And then the lift ramp decided to stop working, and it turned out that it was rattling itself apart, so we had to tighten up a bunch of screws and replace the missing hardware. And then the drop target was filthy and crusty, so it wasn't dropping, so I had to take that apart and clean it. It's just, you know, run, you know, run, you know, find a problem, tackle a problem, on to the next. Right. Find a problem, find a problem, on to the next. So that Bram Stoker is with the new coin door on it, which makes a humongous difference. The play field's all cleaned and waxed. The ramp's got cleaned up really nice. It was fairly shocked when I got it. New LEDs, new flip for bats, stuff like that. Some small adjustments and making that stuff work. Like, it's playing really nice. I've got one or two little more issues to fix and then Brian needs to finish the airbrushing for me and I think that that project will be as complete as it's going to be. Well, that's awesome, Dan. I'm so happy that you finally got it working. I know that's been a frustration for you in the last couple of months. So great job figuring it out because I know Huntsman, when he had it, he had to fix that. Because isn't there like a gear worm on there? So mine works. Yeah. The actual missed mechanism, and I probably should talk to him about, like, proper feeding and maintenance of that mechanism. So for me, I was lucky enough that, yeah, the actual missed mechanism wanted to work.
Brian
person
The Spinner Is Lit Pinball Podcastorganization
Bram Stoker's Draculagame
Transformersgame
James Bond Progame
Trongame
Rolling Stonesgame
Twilight Zonegame
Black Rosegame
Whitewatergame
Creaturegame
Hot Wheelsgame
Press Startvenue
Tedperson
Jimperson

high · Mark praising James Bond Pro: 'the way that the code has progressed from the beginning of the game to where it is now is highly addicting' and noting each mode has 'variety of shots that aren't just typical, you know, shoot, rinse, and repeat kind of thing.'

  • $

    market_signal: Secondary market activity: Dan acquired Transformers Pro, Mark acquired James Bond Pro (after selling Hot Wheels), indicating active trading and collecting behavior.

    high · Dan: 'I picked it up from a lead guy who picked it up from a Bay Area guy... great price, and it's super clean.' Mark: 'I sold my Hot Wheels finally... and I got a James Bond Pro.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Same game model (Twilight Zone) plays significantly differently based on maintenance and setup; Adam's maintained version plays 'friendly and consistent' while Dan struggled with inconsistent scoring.

    high · Dan: 'even casually I'll hang up 250, 300 million points. And, yeah, I got like 27 million.' versus Adam's consistent play after 'they cleaned it up... wax job.'

  • ?

    product_concern: James Bond Pro/Premium/LE playfield layout differences affect gameplay feel: Pro has continuous flow via virtual locks, Premium/LE have more stop-and-go due to physical lock and bondwand.

    high · Mark: 'Pro... just keeps going. The only downtime is when you get it in the left kicker... Premium or LE... you have the bond on the wand and then you have the lock. So if you want a little break in your pinball action, then it's fine.'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Stern Pinball produced exactly three games in 2011: Transformers, Tron, and Rolling Stones, representing recovery from prior low-output period.

    high · Dan looked up and confirmed: 'Stern did one more game that year... Rolling Stones... just those three games.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Team league format (six teams, 10 weeks, playoff bracket) represents alternative to individual competition; includes creative trophy design (LED-lit acrylic with venue branding).

    high · Mark's detailed description of team league structure, Bank Shot team's fourth-seed-to-champion run, and Jim's custom LED trophy creation.

    • 9:51
    And it just, the optos that told the game where the ball is, you know, one of them was like, not so much. Wow. That's great. You figured it out. I would hate, hate, hate that if that didn't work. So, well, that's part of the fun of, like, when you're sort of a low buck pin man, which I know it's kind of, you know, it's kind of, you know, bullshit to say these days with as many expensive games as I've bought. But at heart, I'm always the most comfortable finding a crappy game for $2,500, $3,000 and fixing it up. Right. You know, just because, you know, it's no pressure, you know, it's not super nice and everything doesn't have to work. But sometimes you just want something to work. But I had a lot of fun with, you know, the Whitewater Project and the BSD. And those are both things that I let sit on the shelf for way too long before finally sitting down and getting them done. So getting those projects up and running as well as they should be running is very gratifying. So we'll have some great games to play the next time that you come over and want to get worked by some tough machines. Awesome. That's great. I love that game. And it's especially so satisfying when you can get all three, you know, three times scoring going, which I've missed. I've never come close to doing. I've done two. It's hard to do. It's almost like if you go for the castle, then you have a better shot at getting it. But, yeah, that's a challenge in itself, trying to get castle and multi-ball. You can do coffin and mist. Yeah. Is it castle and multi-ball? Is that what it's called? Yeah, coffin, mist, and castle. So coffin is the one where you have to hit the pop-up ramp. And then when it pops up, you just have to hit it. And then the up kicker kicks it through the castle. Right. Or not through the castle. Sorry, through the coffin. Which the coffin, like, you know that thing was supposed to lock balls. And it doesn't, which just makes me mad. I'm like, oh, why isn't there a lock there? That's the stupidest thing I've ever seen. And then you got the castle, which is where you hit it up the ramp, and it diverts it down and into the little castle, and it does lock. and then you have missed. And then missed is where you have to hit the ramp a bunch of times and then you hit the scoop. And then when you hit the scoop, what's funny is it starts the missed sequence, which is cool, and half the time, probably more than half the time, I just can't even execute. Like I can't hit the ball quick enough because it trucks across the play field. It doesn't take its time. Oh, I know. And then like probably like 20 more percent of the time, I'm like, you'll get a good, clean hit on the ball, and what that'll do is it'll knock the first ball off the minstrel. And the minstrel will catch the second ball and keep going, and you're like, oh, you bastard. Newton at its finest. Yeah, exactly. Fucking fuck you, physics.
    12:40
    I'm like, I want my multi-ball right now. Yeah. But it's cool, and I think it's one of the things that, you know, kind of leads to the challenge of Bram Stoker. Because I will say if I ever league night that game or if I ever take it to, like, a show, I probably would disable the magnet just to save the wear and tear on it. Because it really does go there, like, pretty much every single game. So I don't know how those things held up at route. But maybe one of these days I'll go in and I'll actually, you know, rip that whole mechanism out and, you know, rebuild it. And I'll feel a little bit more confident about the theory of operation on it. Because right now I'm just kind of like you're saying Mike went through. I'm just constantly waiting for the actual myth mechanism to fail now that I've gone through and fixed everything around it. Right. And I can just put my head through the play field glass. That's awesome. You got it working. Yay. Yes, the Project VSD is advancing. So thank you to everybody who's asked about it. you know, everybody who's into, you know, servicing games and has offered advice, like, to me, I think that, you know, getting games working is, I don't know, it's half the fun of pinball, but it's a big part of the fun, especially if you came in before, you know, it was a world of buying new games. Right. You used to never get a fully working game. You always got a project. Yep, and even in new and box, you have to tweak things sometimes. Oh, sure, right? Like, you know, the brand newest games often need some tweaking, some adjustment, you know, some love. Probably not as much love as this game needed, but, you know, some love.
    14:24
    Isn't that the same, is that the same BSD that used to live at Adam's? That was Adam's BSD. I don't know where Adam got it from, probably Moe for something. and then it became Mike's BSE, and they both took looks at it and had other people take looks at it and do some work on it. It's had a lot of sets of hands in and out of it, and I think it was lucky to come to me because even though I pretty much just did my usual bullshit, which is don't get it right, just get it running, you know, like roadkill style and start playing it, it was always in the back of my head that it's like, I've got a plan for this game to kind of do, and I think we talked about this on the show like five years ago, Spencer, but to do like the low buck restore, right? Which is like, you don't really restore it. You just slap some new legs on it, clean up the coin door, make it look as good as it can, make everything work and then start playing it, right? It doesn't have to be perfect. If it's perfect and you chip something, you get pissed off. Just make it play right, make it look good so you don't feel ashamed and start playing it. That's what I did with that Black Rose. We put new legs on it. We got everything working for the most part. Not everything was working on that. When you got it, there were quite a few posts that, like, these have to be, like, just reset. You know, you got to get the toothpicks down there and, you know. Yeah, that poor thing had a clean play field. It was just immaculate almost. It had a lot of challenges, a lot of post challenges, especially in those like star posts or those posts up in the sling. That's supposed to keep the ball in the slingshots. Those suckers were so wallowed out. I couldn't even use toothpicks. I used these big bamboo chopsticks. and if I had a few over, I might almost have just drilled that game and glued some dowels in place. But as far as I know, Rick has that game now, and it's still holding together. So between us, we managed to put a pretty competent chop job on it. And that's just so weird about that particular game. Like you said, the play field had nowhere. I mean, anywhere, really. There was just no raised inserts, nothing. but it's just all the posts were just beat to hell. Yeah, well, it's not that usual, like, just obliterated top of the cannon.
    16:59
    Yeah, no, you couldn't even, there was nowhere on the cannon area at all. I remember at the same time I had two black roses, and the second one, the whole area on the top of the cannon was just worn away because somebody hadn't leveled out the cannon correctly. But, yeah, you know, for those player games, you know, like, there's definitely, you know, I went through a full restore on my creature. And it's beautiful. But honestly, at the end of the day, it doesn't play any better than it played. It might even play worse because it's not broken in anymore. It just looks a lot better, a lot better. Oh, it's just so pretty.
    17:35
    Yeah. When you talk about the low-end. $3,000 worth of work. When you talk about the low-end, you know, job. The low-end guy restore. Yeah, so the next time you want to yell at me about the shitty job I did on the Black grow. It's like, hey, I went low end. I got everything pretty much working and had fun with it. I remember yelling at you about doing a shitty job. I know you did. I yelled at you because I didn't think I was going to have to do a bunch of work on it, and then I ended up doing a bunch of work on it anyway. Not because of you, because of me.
    18:08
    This isn't right yet. I'm like, dude, this game is great. I don't need to do anything on it. Oh, but I could fix this, and then this, and then this, and then that. Next thing I know, I got the game blowing up all over the garage and I'm all like, what the fuck am I doing?
    18:23
    But the best part about that was you're like, there is so much shit on this game I never realized. Oh, dude, that game's great. It's the same thing with the BSD, though, right? Like, I bought that game shopped with a broken Miss Multiball, right? And I knew that's what I was getting into. But, like, again, as you go through a game, you never really know what you got until you decide to shop out a game.
    18:48
    Right. because that's where you go in and you're just like, oh, I don't think this got worked on, or, oh, well, this broke, and I have to fix that, or this post was in the wrong spot and it was causing a ball hang up, you know. And, you know, that's no, you know, dig on whoever had it before or whoever worked on it before. You know, when people work on games, especially games that maybe aren't theirs, you know, they don't really have the time to sit down there and perfect, you know, they get it right or they get it working and they get it out. And, you know, in my case, it was working. Now it was time to get it right. Cool. And I've had Transformers yesterday. A Transformers? Yeah. Pro or premium? Pro.
    19:38
    Cool. The rare one. I've only seen one Transformers Pro on location. But I believe that they were big time in, like, movie theaters. Like, Century Theaters had them. That's where I used to play the one, the Century over on 80.
    19:54
    Yeah. Yeah, you are correct. They did have a Transformers in Reno one time. Yeah, and so, but all the home ones I've ever seen have been LEs, and specifically the combo LE, because there's three LEs of that game, right? That's right. No premium, no PLEs. You got Decepticon, and then you had the half and half LE. which really was a good looking game it's interesting right that you have half red powder coat and half blue powder coat but I think a lot of people you know because the game does that Autobot Decepticon you know you can choose your side before you start and then the play field is basically split down the middle almost like they did in Tron Legacy too where you have the orange half and the blue half so I feel like a lot of people they just want to take that and run with it and, you know, I thought that it looks great. Like, I don't know if I'm going to go, you know, this seems pretty much good to go. I picked it up from a lead guy who picked it up from a Bay Area guy, and, you know, he did the basic maintenance on it and dropped it off at my house yesterday, and great price, and it's super clean, and everything plays 100%. You know, I've sort of gone inside of it and, like, you know, pushed and prodded and tweaked, but nothing more than you'd normally do after you move a game. It's a 2011, so it's definitely not from, like, that modern crazy rule set Stern era, but it's fun. You know, it's well-themed. It was a big license for its moment, which I think was pretty cool. Like, when Stern got Transformers, I was like, oh, man, this is big time.
    21:33
    You know, Transformers is a big movie series right now, and this was right after the second one. And I was always, like, a big Transformers fan growing up. You know, Transformers came out, what, 84 in the States, 84, 85. And it was like my last great toy line love before Nintendo showed up and just effed everything up. Yeah, so true. So, you know, when I buy Transformers toys to this day, you know, they're just, they're fun hand puzzles to, you know, switch back and forth. They're so complicated now. but I gave a couple of my thrift store finds to Brian's kids and they had those things puzzled through in like five minutes. I was like, God, kids are smart.
    22:17
    They're just smart. They're smart and they're handy. Like I was like, Hey, if you need help transforming these guys, I know it can be kind of tough, but I'll come and help you. And like two seconds later, they have those things tight and right. And I was just like, man, you guys really figured these out. And then like five minutes after that, You could tell the guy was now a seasoned Transformers fan because he was bitching about it. He's like, oh, man, this car pops off too easy, and his chest doesn't lock down very well. And I was like, welcome to Transformers, pal.
    22:46
    Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so. Well, you want to play the Porsche, and then the arm is hanging out from the bottom. Yeah. But I made myself two new Transformers buddies.
    22:57
    It doesn't sound like it, but that was 11 years ago. and I just looked up because I was like, oh, God, what other games did they do that year? You had mentioned Tron. Tron was also 2011. Stern did one more game that year. You guys know what it is?
    23:14
    2011. ACDC. No, that's what I thought too, but I think ACDC was. Or Metallica. Either 20, no, Rolling Stones.
    23:27
    Oh, Rolling Stones. Make on a stick. Yeah. It's a random trivial fact. Because I was like, oh, wow. You know, because, like, it doesn't seem like that long ago. Because I remember, Dan, when Transformers came out, like you said, I was like, wow, this is a really big deal. And, you know, there was a lot of speculation. Oh, is he going to have a transforming toy? And, you know. I remember because I really liked that game. I really still do.
    23:55
    Yeah. I remember the unboxings for those games at Justin's house. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, and I remember just kind of in sequence. And Transformers was definitely one that I was super excited about. So was Tron. Like, you know, those were two major geek franchises that, you know, you know when Stern got their hands on those that they were coming out of the dark times. They were coming out of the Wheel of Fortune times.
    24:20
    What about Avatar? Was Avatar that year? No, just those three games. That's all they did that year. So Avatar was right around there, too, though, like the year before or the year after, maybe. Yeah, I think Avatar was 2009 or 2010 And at that time it was like the biggest movie in the world It's 2010 We're kind of getting ahead of ourselves because we're going to talk about this later in the episode Yeah, yeah But anyway, so that's kind of my month for games I think I totally overshot my time slot Mark might have to edit me out a little bit But we also did our league finals yesterday, and congratulations to Alex Lambert, friend of the show, who came in and did his usual thing. But we also had Kendra, who usually, I'm not even going to say usually, like she's been getting better and better and better, and she's been threatening and threatening and threatening to finish in the top three. She finished second, and she actually took Alex, you know, to the final game. It wasn't a stomping.
    25:30
    That's awesome. Wow, that's great. And we had Adam Pressler. That's really impressive. And, you know, it was fantastic. It was a short field yesterday, you know, the holidays.
    25:44
    A lot of people have a lot going on, but, you know, it doesn't matter how many people are there to play. It matters who shows up and who wins.
    25:52
    And, you know, and she did super well. She beat me. She beat me handy two games to one. I got betrayed again by the Twilight Zone. I don't know why I keep playing that game in competition.
    26:06
    And then Adam Pressler, our host with the most, took third. So you were at Adam's house. Yeah. Adam, we do the league finals at Adam's because we play. Because Adam's Twilight Zone is just evil. No, I think it plays well. They cleaned it up. Oh, it's great. They cleaned it up. He put a wax job on it. It actually has really, really friendly and consistent feed from the scoop. And usually I go on to Adam's Twilight Zone and, you know, even casually I'll hang up 250, 300 million points. And, yeah, I got like 27 million. And I was still ahead. but Kendra just made a couple shots on that last ball and passed me basically immediately. But, yeah, Adam, you know, at our last league night at his place, we played Twilight, and he had a rough first two balls, and then ball three he hung up like a billion points. I think he ended up putting like 1.3 billion on in league play. So it's definitely a playable game.
    27:13
    I don't think it's even – I think it used to be worse, but I think that he's kind of got it dialed in now to where, like, If you know how Twilight Zone is supposed to work, it's a very good example of how Twilight Zone is supposed to work. I think it's even better than mine. And for a while, I would argue that my Twilight Zone was five times better than his. But I think I also probably play his more than I play my own, though.
    27:36
    Yeah, you probably do. And we had Folsom finals this month, too. I didn't make it to Folsom finals this time. I didn't qualify.
    27:45
    But that was run by Darren Vaught, who was the guy who sold me Transformers. So I'll say, I said it before, I'll say it again, you know, congratulations. He actually went from unqualified. He got in because they needed to make a bracket and he played enough to play in the finals and he ran the whole field and he went all the way to first.
    28:04
    So that's cool. Yep. Congratulations to Darren on his win. And you know, thank you for a smooth deal and thank you for supporting my crippling addiction to buying pinball machines. so what about you mark i heard that you had some tournament triumph we did yeah uh we just finished our team league um it consisted of six teams and we played for 10 weeks and we finally had the finals and that was in uh at press start and we played against Ted's team, they were called the Wrecking Crew, and we pulled it off. We got a win. We were originally, when we first started the league, we were almost like second to last place. We started winning a couple of matches here and there and different meets, and finally, we just barely made it into the playoffs at the fourth seed, and after that was done, we of course had to play the first seed based on how it was set up and we pulled it off and had a terrific win away from home and then we had our home game at press start and that got us into the finals and our team succeeded and I'm really proud of my team for sure because they really put in the effort. They were very committed to being there every week. I think I only had a total of three subs the whole season. So I really picked a great group of people. They're a lot of fun. We got along really well and we pulled it off and got a really nice trophy that Jim made like an acrylic and it has LEDs on the bottom that light it up. So it looks just like the Reno sign, but it says RPF instead that will travel around to the different players like monthly, just so we can share it. And then it'll be up for grabs again in February. But it was a awesome win. We did so good that we didn't even have to play the fifth round, which was saw ball because we had enough points.
    30:17
    So it was funny too, because when Ted talked to me, he's like, you know, since we don't have two locations to play, we just, well, let's just have this and finish it last Sunday instead of having it again tonight. And it was a little pressure because it's like, well, this is do or die. We have to step up and we, we did it. So yes, our inaugural season, season one,
    30:43
    bank shot, took home the trophy. Right on, man. That's awesome. Hey, didn't you get a new game too, Mark? I did. I sold my Hot Wheels finally. I parted ways with it, and I got a James Bond Pro, and I really like it a lot. I enjoy the rules, especially the ones that were put up just recently with the .97 code update. I'm waiting for whatever it will be, hopefully .99 or even one, but obviously that's wishful thinking. But the way that the code has progressed from the beginning of the game to where it is now is highly addicting. The one thing I like about it the most is how each mode has a variety of shots that aren't just typical, you know, shoot, rinse, and repeat kind of thing. They're very unique in their own way and very creative. of the layout of the game. As we know, the Pro, I really like the flow. I find that when I play the Premium or the LE, it just seems like it is just a little more stop and go with the Premium or LE because you have the bond on the wand and then you have the lock. So if you want a little break in your pinball action, then it's fine having that. But with the Pro, when you shoot that center loop, it automatically just locks the ball as a virtual lock and you just keep going. The only downtime is when you get it in the left kicker, the out kicker, which is the, I guess it's the Thunderball scoop. It will fire it out. And the only thing that is frustrating with that design is sometimes the ball doesn't make it into the pots and it bounces off the post, hits the tank target, and comes straight down the middle. That can get very frustrating because you're getting so far into the game, and then that happens, and it's like game over. But that's pinball, and I personally like the risk and reward. Pinball with a pinball. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you just have to make sure that when it hits a certain way, you've got to nudge that machine just enough to hit that tip of the flipper. But I'll tell you one thing, that the rules where you have to light the movie inserts are extremely difficult. Because you have to match it with the same movie for four different types of modes. You have to have it for the Q branch. You have to have it for weapon, henchman, and villain. And they all have to match. Now, the one thing that's difficult with the code that they have right now currently is that when the weapon is qualified, it basically goes around and cycles around in the circle. So you have to hit it at the right time to lock in that weapon.
    33:54
    So that's the only thing that's frustrating because it's like, oh, I got a henchman that's blue. And I go by the colors, of course. So I got one that's blue for henchman and I got one for villain. and I got Q branch done.
    34:08
    All I have to hit is one more, and then it's like, oh, I hit yellow. Damn it. And then you have to hit the specter targets in the back of the rocket, and then that will, of course, qualify the weapon again, and you have another shot at it. But, gosh, the way that they put it together is just so much better than it used to be. The other plus that I really like about it is that when you play the game, you have to earn smart missiles. So it's very similar to like Guardians of the Galaxy, but you have to be more strategic when you use them because you earn a smart missile when you shoot for different shots that when you complete certain modes, you get awarded a smart missile. And if you make skill shots, you also can get smart missiles. But what really makes the game clever is there's an additional thing with the action button. So one, the action button lets you spot those shots like a wild card where you just hit it and it takes the most rewarding shot that you can do and it will apply to your score. However, there is another one that if you qualify the Bond Women, then you can hit that orbit to lock it in and the button changes from red to like a fuchsia pink color. And when you tap the button or press it, that locks in your bonus multiplier depending on how many women you collected in the loop. And that is what keeps me coming back for it. Cause it's like that risk reward, which Gomez is known for is so addicting. Cause it's like, Oh, I have five times multiplier. I could lock it in right now and hit that button, but I'm only two away to get to seven. And sure enough, there was one time I did get times seven, which was very, very satisfying. However, there's other times where I have times five, I should have hit the button, I didn't, and I drained it. And then unfortunately, if you already lock those in, then you lose them. But if you qualify them and they're still flashing, then they are still there for the next ball. So right now my job is to try to get one of those movie inserts lit. And out of all the games I've played, which is like 30 games probably by now, I have not lit anything except Coldfinger, and that's it. So I'm hoping that as I play it more, I'll be able to get at least two movie inserts and eventually get more than that as I get more and more comfortable with it. but it definitely has that one more game feel. And I like the multi-ball modes too. They easy to start but they strategic in when you want to use them to complete other modes depending on what they are But it really good how they use all the different shots to be able to finish those modes So I'm very happy with the game. It worked great. I got it used, so it was already dialed in and tuned up and just played perfect when I got it. So I keep playing it nonstop. The other thing is they had a seven days of bond thing for the Insider Connected, and that got me a little addicted to play it every day so I could get all the badges. Nice. But it was awesome. I really like it, and I can't wait to see what is in store for the weapons because from what I heard, it sounds like that they're going to have different perks for each of the weapons to help you advance further through the game.
    37:58
    So it just keeps getting better. It's a great game. It's a sleeper hit. A lot of people dogged on it in the beginning.
    38:05
    Code has really made that game one of my favorites for something that I own now. I like it even more than Hot Wheels just because the code is a lot more deeper. Yeah, the code on that game has definitely come around. I was actually talking with somebody about Bond the other day, and they were sort of dogging on it. And I was like, man, if you haven't played Bond since launch, like, you really need to go back and give it another look because they've done tremendous work getting that game from something that was, I mean, I'm trying to be mean, but it was sort of a box of lights that played the Bond theme.
    38:53
    That's about it. Yeah. being like one of the best games going. The button rules on that game, like you were describing earlier, like they're outrageous.
    39:03
    Like they just go like that, you know, oh, I'm about to drain. I'm going to smash on the button. It's like, no, don't do that.
    39:11
    Correct. Because then you're like, you're throwing away a tool, a gadget, a phone. It's something that you're going to actually be able to use if you're not on your last ball. You see that a lot with Mando as well. Yes, exactly. You don't really understand what the button does, and you have to kind of look at it a little bit more and sort of go like, oh, so when it's pink, I'm going to get this person's perk. When it's blue, when it's yellow, I'm going to get these perks. And it's knowing the right time to unleash the power of your bond gadgets, MI6 bonuses, whatever you got. So, yeah, that game is great. I'm really glad that you ended up grabbing it. I am really happy, too. And the other thing that I really like is the two-branch mode. You got it from Greg, right?
    40:00
    I got it from, yes, I did. I got it from Greg. And Greg got it from Chris or got Flash Gordon from. Yep. And I got Fishtails from. Absolutely. Oh, you got that. Couldn't have been more happier. Okay. Couldn't have been more happier. It played great, and it was a great game to have as one-game collection, and I'm very happy to play it every day. It's just super fun. Unfortunately, my daughter has to work early in the morning sometimes, and I'm like, I want to play Bond. She's like, no, I'm going to bed. I'm like, I want to play Bond.
    40:34
    So, yeah, it's definitely a good game. Yeah, that's true. Good point. Just saying. Good point. You need a basement, Mark. I do. I have a home. I do, yeah. But it's right next to the bedroom. But anyway, it's wonderful. I really like the Q Branch mode. It's awesome because you really have to work hard to get yet another multi-ball mode. So there's a lot of multi-balls, but it's not gratuitous. You really have to earn them. Except, of course, the Bird One Rocket multi-ball and the Jet Pack. Those are pretty easy to start. But that's perfect for a person who doesn't know the game really well, and they can just walk up to it and have fun with it. So hats off to Gomez and Rob as well as Mike Vinicore. They really are doing a great job, just like what they did with Stranger Things. The code's awesome on that one too. So very happy with it, and I'm just waiting. I could go on Pinside like every day to see if there's a code update or if there's one hopefully coming soon. So I'm guessing. Somebody mentioned that to me too. Yep. They're like, did Mark get a bond? And I'm like, yeah. Kind of like, oh, I can tell because he is all over Pinside gushing about it. Yep, exactly. Yep. And you know what's funny, Mark? We both got Gomez games. I know we do. That's right. Transformers is a Gomez. That's right. So we had to get those Gomez games this month. Yeah. So really happy with it. And like I said, play it every day.
    42:11
    But that's about it as far as game room updates because I really don't have a game room. I just have a game in a room. You have a game with a room in it, or you have room with a game in it, so you got a game room. I got a game room. Yeah, there you go. Awesome. Well, you know, there's still new stuff right at the end of the year, man, just before the end of the year, and there's still new stuff coming out.
    42:32
    You know, Spooky unveiled, which is last week, unveiled their two newest games, Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And when I first heard, because I first heard about, I heard somebody say Looney Tunes. And I'm like, oh, damn, cool, because I had said as Scooby-Doo was coming out, oh, man, they're in bed now with Warner Brothers, too. Hopefully we'll get a real good Looney Tunes game out of it. And we did. They nailed it, man. They nailed it. When I heard they were announcing Looney Tunes, I went loony. Yeah, right? But then I heard, oh, they're doing the two-game bit again, and I kind of rolled my eyes and went, oh, man, come on, really? Right. I love the two-game bit, man. And then I saw both of them, and I had to eat my words because they not – obviously, I haven't touched one yet, but just from looking at the video, it looks like they really knocked it out of the park on both of them, you know? They really did with theme and artwork. They're two completely different games, but with the same layout. That's hard to accomplish. And Spooky, based on my first impressions, that game looks really fun to shoot. Really fun. So have you guys watched any of the streams that they've done yet? Like they did the Texas stream. I don't know if they've done a Looney stream. I haven't watched. I've only watched the teaser video where they show the basic gameplay and then the making of videos. I saw the video posted for like a gameplay video of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, but I haven't sat down and watched it yet. I watched the one with Bug. That's the one I watched. And he was just glowing and so excited. And I love that, to see people make that accomplishment and be prideful of what they produce. But they just keep pushing the bar. I'm really impressed with Spooky, and I'm really happy with them that they come up with really solid themes. And I don't understand how a small company like them, although now I don't know if I can say that anymore, gets these licenses and gets full assets.
    44:51
    I mean, come on, Warner Brothers, that's not easy to get. And they got, like, all the classics. So, you know, all the ones that I loved when I was a kid, especially Roadrunner, that's my absolute favorite. And real artists. Do you guys know who the artist is on Looney Tunes? I don't remember his name, but I think that the guy who does it is like one of the real honest-to-God-like Looney Tunes artists. But I know that the guy who does the voices is the official voice of Buzz Bunny and Daffy Duck and Porky Pig. Like one dude basically does them all. Yeah, the voice guy is the current official authorized voice actor for all the characters. You'll never replace Blank, right? Yeah, he is really close. He's the real thing. Like, he is, you know, when Warner has somebody do voices for Looney Tunes, this is the dude they send out. It's not Buck trying to do an impression. The artist, because I listened to their podcast, I was a little kid. They had Bug and Spooky Luke on. I was listening to that the other day. The artist is a guy that reached out to them and said, hey, I really love pinball. I've gotten into it in the last few years because I was a pinball artist at Deep Root. I know, bad way to start this, but I'm looking for work. I'd love to. So they said, okay, send us some work. So they sent us a portfolio and sent us some stuff he did. And they gave him a couple of little things to do on some of the other games. And so the guy came back and said, okay, what can you do for Looney Tunes? So he sent back some stuff, and they're like, oh, is this ready to go? He goes, no, that's just like a sketch. They're like, oh, we thought this was like a completed play field. Okay. So he wasn't like a real Warner guy, but he was a guy who works with youth and artists. Who never was into pinball, got the job, got a job over at Deep Root, and then got really introduced to pinball, really fell in love, started buying games. He's on all the forums, and he's like, hey, I know not a great way to start. Yeah, I worked at Deep Root, but I'm really into pinball, and I'd really love to get more pinball work. Hi, my name's Johnny, and I design games for this company known as Deep Root. Can I get a job? Yeah. And that's basically, and then they gave him a couple of small projects on, you know, hey, can you do this for this game? And that, yeah, a couple of the games. And he really knocked it out of the park. And which is really interesting about both these games is each game had a completely separate team for everything, from the art, from, you know, the programming, from the rule set, everything. Well, right. The teams aren't even identical. Like, the layout's identical, but, like, the inserts aren't. The inserts are different, yeah. So, like, they've really kind of taken the two designs approach, or the two themes approach, I'm sorry, and they've evolved it, you know, from, like, the Shrek family guy thing that's turned it a million years ago, or even, like, the Pinbot Jackbot thing to what they did with Halloween and Ultraman to what they're doing here. And I think, you know, kind of branching into what we're going to be talking about with themes this episode, I think it's awesome because it lets them do more work or get more result, and they don't have to do a ton more work. I mean, I guess if the only person who loses there is maybe the person who's like, just they really want to own Texas Chainsaw and they really want to own Looney Tunes, and they would love if those were two different games. But I think that, you know, the vast majority of people were going to buy one or the other.
    48:53
    Right, right, right. And, by the way, the artist is Brad Duke. Thank you. Is the name of the artist for the Looney Tunes Tim Long machine. Brad Duke. So, yeah, so, you know, shout out to him to, you know, for, you know, hey, I'll just take a chance. And because he's talented. He's certainly talented. And it's good to see some good come out of all that. you know, all that mess. Like, oh, okay, some good guy got another job because he's a good guy and he's talented. Look, look, look. I know that you love to hate on Deep Root, but, man, Ninja Eclipse, bro.
    49:30
    Yeah. Name of the year for next year. Definitely the best thing to come out of Deep Root, Ninja Eclipse.
    49:42
    Turner Pinball. And the Pinball. The base stole It wasn't even theirs Oh I heard This was described too and hopefully I won't Buck this up too bad But there's a mode on Texas Chainsaw Massacre Where you start out and for whatever reason The blood's draining out So all the inserts turn red on the playfield And they slowly move down the playfield As the blood's draining out That's badass So you hit a shot like we'll say a ramp and then it's worth X. And then as the blood drains out, you hit that shot again, it's worth nothing. And so you've got to focus on the lower plate built shots. That's crazy. Isn't that crazy? It's like Power Down. It's like Power Down, yeah. Or like Tank Multiball. Right. Kind of like Power Down meets Tank Multiball. I can see where you're at. But, I mean, okay, it's a cool idea. It's a great use of assets, right? Like it's a great use of, oh, you know, it's a horror movie, so it's going to have blood and we've got all these RGB inserts and we can have this thing where it washes. It's dope. It's such a good idea. It's just such smart thinking.
    50:51
    Who is the coder for Halloween? I don't know. It's not Pripke. Pripke is doing Looney Tunes. Pripke is doing Looney Tunes and the coder for Chainsaw Massacre is Ben Hack. Ben Hack is a smart dude because he looked at what he had and he said, I can do something cool without using any additional hardware. Just using, you know, smart thinking, intelligent use of my theme, and the lighting system that's already built into the game. Like, that's just genius at work. Don't let Ben know that I said he was a genius because dude's already an egomaniac. They even said, like, hey, look, We got to, you know, this is a whole nother level because, you know, LCD and this and these assets. It's like, oh, no problem. They're like, he knocked her out of the park. So I'm really excited to get a chance. Four ramps? Come on. That's two ramps. Four ramps? And you look at even stuff where like, okay, as soon as I saw the, because I saw Looney Tunes video first, and like the little doorway to the Acme, which, you know, pays homage to the Shadow a little bit. Yeah, you like the Shadow, man. I love that. Yeah. And then I thought, oh, the door from, because if you've ever seen the movie, the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre, that's kind of an iconic scene. And they make the door the same with the magnet trick and the little kind of sliding target there, doorway. But it's cool because it doesn't rotate like American Pinballs with an Oktoberfest. It actually slides back. It slides back, right. Like a door, which is super cool. Yeah, it's very similar to the Shadow Sanctum bit. But anyway, so if you know the movie, there's a scene where he drags the girl into his, you know, leather face, drags the girl into like a little butcher shop area, and he slams his door shut, and it's like this, it's like, I don't know what to do, it's like what they call like a pocket door, slides out and it's like, you know, with some cheap-ass aluminum siding off the neighbor's trailer house, you know. And it's just, it's iconic the way that door slides shut. And they have the sound effect to fit with it really well. Yeah, it's a great scene in that movie, which, I mean, I've seen the movie, you know, many years ago. In and of itself, I just think it's just an okay B-horror film, but it's iconic and it It was kind of like one of, if not the first, one of the first very graphically violent, with visual effects and things, graphically violent slasher-type horror films that led to Friday the 13th, Halloween, Friday the 13th, and all these others in the later 70s and into the 80s, you know, My Bloody Valentine and on and on and on.
    53:48
    So it's iconic in that matter. So, again, it's like if you're getting the choice of two, I'd take one of these films all day, every day. But I'm excited to play Texas Chainsaw Massacre because, you know, again, I know the theme. I know the, you know, the mythology of it and all. And to see how they've integrated that, it looks really fun. Like, I'm like, oh, I'm excited about this. When I didn't think I would be because I'm like, yeah, okay, it's a horror thing. Cool. It's not my cup of tea. But, oh, the modes and the way they're integrating the theme. Oh, that makes me excited. I want to see this. Yeah. And that's, what is that, what kind of lock is that on the left with like a meat grinder? That was pretty cool. Right. How they did that. Right. So it's like a, yeah, what was like a worm? Is it like kind of like a spiral drive or whatever? A worm gear, yeah. A worm gear. And then it just drops it on the top, right, to lock the ball? Yeah, and then in the Roadrunner, it's a Roadrunner like the Acme or like the Roadrunner cave, right? The rocket? Isn't it like a rocket or something like that? Oh, it is a rocket, yeah. Yeah.
    54:55
    But what's cool is they have that work with the code when they get it developed where it will, like, hold balls, and then it will, I don't know, maybe it could speed up and slow down. I don't know what they can do. They could do a lot with that. But, yeah, it could, like, hold balls in there as an actual lock and then release them later. I'm curious to see what they do with that, Mac. How many flippers does it need? It's four flippers too, right? Four flippers, yep. Four clippers, four ramps. Yep. And the other thing is very interesting, and I don't know, this might be one of those things that people might be leery about, is having powder-coated ramps. That is interesting, but I don't know. Maybe they hold up. Obviously, they probably tested it, but it's just interesting to go that route and go powder-coated ramps. What are your thoughts on that, Dan? What do you think with the powder-coated ramps? Bill and I were watching the video the other night and looking at it, and I was like, man, I think that those ramps, at least on Looney Tunes, would have almost looked better as orange plastic.
    56:00
    But, you know, I'm sure that they're going to be fine, you know, if they start chipping or something. I mean, hopefully Spooky will make it right. But, you know, I'm sure that they didn't just throw them on there willy-nilly.
    56:12
    No, no. But, yeah, that's a lot of big orange ramp. but it doesn't aesthetically, like, take away from the game. You know, it looks nice. The art's great. The art is amazing on it. It's just one of those. And it's got a lot of oranges if you like orange. Are all of the models power-coded? What I was going to ask is there's a standard model, and then there's the Bloodsucker, and then there's, like, the Collector's Edition or something. Am I right in that?
    56:41
    Yes. I think there is a standard also, huh? There is a standard. Yes. Wow. I thought for sure they just have two models. And they have two different packages. I think the ramps and stuff are always powder-coated. Right on. Okay. So the standard edition is $82.99 plus tax and shipping. The price is pretty good for considering all the things you get. It's like, what, $10,000 or so? But then maybe if you want to get that butter cabinet, then you've got to add another $1,500, is it, I think, if you want to get the drink. Luke was saying they actually lowered the price, though. So maybe at the basic level, it's actually cheaper than it was for Scooby, which would make a lot of sense because Scooby-Doo, don't get me wrong, Looney Tunes is absolutely packed, but Scooby-Doo is just stuffed with the double play field and the sculpts and tons and tons of drop targets and the really complicated ramps and all that. but it still looks like a very full and busy game mechanically. Right. And the other thing, too, that I found is they do listen to people because everybody's ripping on, oh, you can't see the ball, and it's not enough flow, and it's too much, you know, brick shots here and there. This one looks like it will flow really well, and how the ball comes back to the flipper on almost like every single flipper will be very interesting to see how long the gameplay will be per ball.
    58:14
    I'm very interested to see that. Well, they were mentioning that, right? As well in the stream that they were mentioning that, like, every shot leads to another shot, which is great for me because I like that. That's why I really like Rush because Rush is really good at one shot feeding another shot so you can combo it. And you can see in the video where, like, you have that one, like, ramp shot that will feed up to the upper flipper, and then you can just refeed the ramp shot and just keep going. I don't know if there's a diverter or something that will eventually stop you from doing that, but it looks like it has a lot of repeatable, loopable action. And, you know, a lot of people love that. It can get old, you know, when you watch somebody hit the ramp, you know, the loop 100 times in a row on Doctor Who, but it's still a heck of an accomplishment. So, you know, maybe it'll have long ball times. But, I mean, and I don't think I'm alone in saying this. You know, spooky games, just like Stern games, just like JJP games, have a very particular feel.
    59:16
    And, you know, Bugs has been pretty adamant in saying, you know, they're not trying to make a game that plays like a Stern. They're trying to make a game that plays like a spooky. And their games are going to have their style, you know. Right. Some people are like, well, spooky games are clunky. And I'm like, yeah, there's some clunk in every game. But, you know, I think that you're right. They did kind of listen to the feedback from Scooby, and they said, okay, well, our next game, you know, maybe not because you said you didn't like it, but our next game is going to be something a little different.
    59:49
    You know, and that's just sort of like. Yeah, we're giving a game to the flow crowd. That's the way I look at it, right? He's like, okay. And honestly, I like Scooby-Doo, and I've said it before, and I know it sounds kind of silly, But, you know, the whole idea behind that game for Scooby is a mystery. So why not have the ball be a mystery where it comes out? That's the way I look at it. So, yeah. Scooby's another game that I don't know if you've played it lately, but it's come fall in code.
    60:23
    Like, the early code we were seeing at the show with the repetitive music was just kind of, you know, it felt very sedate. It didn't feel like it was going places. The last time that I played it, which was over at Jason's and Tracy, like, yeah, it's exciting, and it's got some good tension to it. And when you're trying to solve the mysteries or do the modes, like, it's definitely got a little pressure. It's an outstanding, outstanding game. Well, that's great to hear because I'm excited to play it. I couldn't really hear it in Jason's basement because he had all the other games going on there. But, yeah, I really want to get some time on that and try it out to really listen to the soundtrack. Because you're right, it was kind of graded. It was grading to hear that same, I don't know how you describe it. Like real seconds of music. Yeah, yeah. Just looping. Looping. It was just looping. Yeah.
    61:19
    Yeah. You know, it goes back to kind of the theming thing that we were talking about, where when you have, you know, a perfect theme, if you don't execute on that perfect theme perfectly, it's squandered. Right. You know, you get a big license, you get a big theme, you get a Scooby-Doo or a Looney Tunes or a Texas Chainsaw or James Bond. You know, James Bond, the first run of James Bond, you know, a lot of people were just like, they got the entire Bond, you know, franchise at their disposal or at least the Sean Connery piece of it. And this is what they're going to give us. And then they come back and they go, well, you know, good news. Yes, you saw that early release. You didn't like it, but we were able to take that feedback, whether, you know, they took it personally or not. And they went back and they made adjustments and released more code. And, you know, it basically fixed a game that I think would have been a disappointment and turn it into a big success. Right. And I didn't mention this, but the video clips, I know we're kind of going back and forth, but with Bond, the video clips are reminding me of Batman 66, how well they're integrated. Oh, nice. And, yeah, it's really good. But, yeah, going back to Spooky, I really am excited for them. And I don't know, do you know anybody? We don't have to mention names, obviously, but do you know anybody that's getting any Looney Tunes or Chainsaw Massacre?
    62:53
    I don't know anyone who's flat out said that they're getting one. Okay. I know some people who are waiting on Pulp Fiction.
    63:03
    Yeah. I know some people who are waiting on Labyrinth, and I think now might have been a rough time to have dropped two new releases.
    63:14
    Yep. I mean, honestly, they're still, you know, I don't think that they've really shipped more than a few Elton Johns either.
    63:23
    No, no, not many. No, I think that there were already a lot of options in the market, and now there's just two more choices out there.
    63:32
    So, I don't know. Thank you for reminding me, Dan. I did not have a labyrinth on games of the 2023 that shipped. I don't think it's shipped yet. They're on location. Yeah, they have. They are on location. I just read that on Pinside that they are on location. I read it on NAP, I think. Yeah. So they're on location now or somewhere else. They did bust right out with like 10 games to sell, right? Something like that, yeah. So like they had games on the theme day and date. Yeah. So, okay, so I looked up on SpookySide. I'm here now. The collector's edition of Looney Tunes has the orange powder-coated ramps and have the trills. The limited edition, or the bloodsucker's edition, I'm sorry, has a sparkling black gloss black powder coat. Gloss black with sparkles. Huh. The standard edition has flat black powder coating on the ramps and the habit trails.
    64:42
    So they're all powder coated. They're all powder coated. It must work. Yeah, it must. Yeah. I wouldn't take that risk with three different models and then, you know, have it shut. So, yeah, I didn't realize because the only thing I saw was just the orange one. That's why I asked. I'm like, oh, are all the editions powder coated? You know, because I know with Spooky, when you buy the different edition, I mean, you're not losing any mechs or anything like that usually. It's just trim level mostly. Right, and different colors. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah, you're not missing anything in the game. That's one nice thing. They don't shortchange you with the different mechs and things like that. It's just mainly aesthetics.
    65:26
    But I think what's great about Spooky is they promise what they deliver. I mean, they are almost done with their run of Scooby-Doo, right? And now they're going to start this one up probably after the holidays.
    65:40
    And people are going to be getting their games probably in February. And they are on target. And the cool thing about them is they manufacture everything in-house except their cabinets. Isn't that correct? I think they do all the metal work. They do all the sculpts. Everything is done in-house, which is pretty amazing considering they are still sticking to that timeline. Yeah, I don't know about the cabinets, but I do know a lot of their stuff is done in-house. And then we're talking about you can still special order direct print cabinets from them. So I don't know if they're assembling the cabinets. I don't know how that's working. Well, Charlie comes from a printing background, right? Yeah. He does. Like that's kind of where he started. So it definitely makes sense that like they probably do all their printing in-house. Like who would, you know, who would really manufacture the cabinets for him? The cabinets seem like one of those things that, you know, they probably get them brought in from somewhere and then they slap all their graphics on them.
    66:45
    Yeah, that's correct. That's what I heard on the podcast when they were interviewing Bug. But it's just exciting to see them be so successful and coming out with some awesome themes. So hats off to Spooky and being from Wisconsin, can't go wrong with that. It's pretty awesome. Exactly. The biggest pinball company in Benton, Wisconsin. I want to visit that one of these days. You know what? It's so far from Milwaukee. What we need to do is plan a trip to where we all meet up together and get a tour of the factory. That would be cool. And go to that little bar and grill they go to in Benton and get pizza or burgers or whatever after. There you go. So I looked up on Texas Chainsaw, the base model and then the blood sucker, they're just using the same trim level as with, you know, it's the black, black, and then the gloss black with the sparkles, and then the limited edition or what the collector's edition has, like blood red instead of orange. Well, they always have a weird way of handling that, right? Because it's like they have a standard, but then the Bloodsucker is if you add options to it, it becomes a Bloodsucker edition. And now they have a collector's edition as well, which comes with everything. Kind of everything, yeah. Except for maybe the Buttercab, I'm not sure. But, yeah, they've always had a weird way. And they don't limit anything. Like if 888 people order collector's editions, there will be 888 collector's editions. Right, that's correct. It's the total number of games per theme. And that's one of the reasons why they're still doing the non-refundable deposit, because they're making the game per X person that's purchasing it, and they don't want to have to go through the headache of trying to sell it to someone else and go, well, I wanted this, or I didn't want that. And so it's like, okay, you're in now, and it's up to you to sell your deposit, because we don't want to deal with this. I mean, from their point of view, from their perspective, it makes sense. You know, and it makes sense with the non-refundable deposit, too, because then they got their bill of materials set and ready to go. Maybe that's why they're always on time. Yeah. Because they got the money to pay for it. They talked about that because that way they know in advance, like you said, they're building materials, how many of X model they've got to make and how many they've already sold. And so that's how it comes because people always ask me, like, well, how come during COVID you guys were able to give out games? That's because they do so much in-house. You know, they're doing it smart. I mean, and they make improvements. Look, are they perfect? No, but they're making improvements with every single game they make. No, as much as, you know, you don't want to love non-refundable deposits,
    69:36
    you have to kind of understand, too, the person that they really screw is the flipper. like the person is going to throw a deposit down and if the game ends up being successful they go like okay great I'll take my game and if the game ends up being a little bit more lukewarm they go oh I'm just going to get my money back I mean I guess that like a regular normal person can change their mind and need their money back and you know that's a rough situation but I don't think that you know like your common person sort of says hey I'm going to give you what $10,000 $10,000, like $1,000 or $1,500, unless they're pretty serious about their potential to purchase the game. I know bad things can happen, you know. Right. That sucks. But, you know, I just think that really the people who scream the loudest about, like, we hate deposits and we hate pre-orders and it's killing us are, well, I guess it's all a pinball because everybody's really impatient and they don't like to wait. But it just always feels like it's a flipper defense mechanism. They're just like, oh, I want to be able to order five games and get my money back so I can quadruple my money like I did on Rick and Morty. Right. So I deposit for $5,000. It's just like, ah, fuck off. Yeah, and you remember how fast those things sold out? Well, because it was a hot property, and they only made 750 of them. Right.
    70:59
    I mean, it's not a great game. No. But it's a hot, hot theme. The assets are awesome and the way they did the code, but it's too bad it doesn't shoot as good.
    71:11
    Yeah. That's the problem. That's kind of going back to, you know, what I was saying a little bit before is just like they got the real artists and they got the real voice actors and they got the real scenario writers and they all threw in on this game, so it makes it a super authentic Rick and Morty experience. Right. Have you seen the new Looney Tunes that's on Mac? No. If you watch that, it stays true to the classics. It's actually excellent. And Eric Bauza does all of the voices for, obviously, he's pretty much like the modern Mel Blanc. And he does a really good job. And the music is the same. It's got the merry melodies, you know, with like an actual orchestra. It's really good. if you haven't had a chance to watch it on Max it's called Looney Tunes Cartoons HBO Max I was watching some clips I don't know if this was like a real show or if it was just clips but it was almost like a Looney Tunes sitcom where like Bugs and Daffy lived in a house I haven't seen that one it was really amusing those characters are still you know they're still being used I mean maybe they're not Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck you know in terms of like the maximum exploitive use of them but like you know I think that like kids these days you know they still know who Bugs and Daffy and you know Porky Pig are maybe not the real Bugs and Daffy and Porky Pig like from the 30s and the 40s where they were just psychotic but you know they still have the characters characters. These characters still exist. Yeah. You know the ones I always like are all the really oddball shit that Looney Tunes did.
    73:03
    Like Ralph and Sam. You know, it was basically Wile E. Coyote and the Sheepdog. No, they're distinctly different characters. Yeah. Wile E. and Ralph the Wolf, they look similar, but they're not the same. Well, Wile E. talks. No, you're right. You are right. With the Sheepdog. Wile E. doesn't. Well, Ralph talks. Well, Wile E. does, He talks in later cartoons. The original The God Wily Coyote, the one that was it Chuck Jones? Chuck Jones was the one? Yeah. Chuck Jones is correct. He doesn't talk in the cartoons, but he talks in his Bugs Bunny cartoons he'll talk. And he has that really urbane voice.
    73:46
    But yeah, where Ralph and Sam they're like punching in and out and then he's going to try to kill his dream. It's your business. I think it's the lunch boxes. And then Ralph always gets up and punches his teeth out. Yeah. I love that. They show up at their lunch boxes. Morning, Ralph. Morning, Sam. Cup of coffee. They have a coffee break, and they're sipping coffee and chatting about the wives. And, oh, back to work. Bang, you know. Yeah, exactly. Pow Pow Yeah right Well those and like Ralph Phillips the little kid that daydreams in class Oh yeah yeah But there something and of course Foghorn Leghorn like my fucking hero now You know, I love that guy. Is Foghorn Leghorn in the pinball machine? He's got to be somewhere. I don't know. I mean, at least, you know, he was a tennis shoe monster, the big red fuzzy tennis shoe monster. I didn't see him. I didn't see Speedy Gonzalez, and I know he's become a character that some people have a problem with, but some people don't. Right.
    74:52
    But, you know, Marvel and the Martians are there. Yeah, he's there. Most important to me, you know, it looks like it has a very heavy Daffy Duck presence. Yeah. Which is great because Daffy Duck is arguably the best Looney Tunes character. He's always been one of my favorites, you know.
    75:10
    Oh, pronoun trouble. You know, there's one problem with that game is when the clips are going, I might not be able to play as well because I'm going to be laughing at all of the movies that are playing on the screen. But, you know, I can see Foghorn Leghorn doing the extra ball. I said, boy, you got an extra ball.
    75:31
    That would be a great call out. Is there Yosemite Sam? Is there Yosemite Sam in there? There's got to be, but I don't recall seeing him. I don't recall hearing them mentioning him, but he's got to be a man. I hate that rabbit.
    75:50
    I love that. Oh, gosh. Yeah, see, you can dig deep in the world. You can go with Tweety and Granny, you know. Oh, they could go all out. And what's nice is really, I don't know if the inserts match all those things, where they could always add more code and add more clips, and who knows what they could do. I mean, if they got the whole license, it's pretty awesome. So, I mean, obviously they can't have every single episode, but they have the ones that I love, like the opera one. Oh, I've still got the opera one. Opera doc is so good. Well, maybe some of them know that they have the voice actor who can do these specific characters. Let's be honest. Yeah. The three of us, and if you ask 100 other people in our age groups, Everything we know about the opera We learn from Looney Tunes You know What do you know about opera? What I learned from Looney Tunes And watching Godfather movies You know We're not talking about Godfather in this episode Spencer Oh we're not but I mean you see my point But yeah it's you know Enrico Caruso he was in the Godfather You know But yeah it's like What did you learn about opera? Oh it was funny You know Oh, God, that ending part is so good. When he's on.
    77:11
    He just lets his glove just stay up there and he's going out, just leaves this place. Oh, God, so good. So good. With Boghorn Lakehorn, right? Runs up, grabs the dog and whacks him on the ass with a stick and then runs. And he runs out of leash.
    77:27
    Oh, what a go. So good. I'm so thrilled that they have that theme. Marvin the Martian can't wait kind of like more subversive right like the Looney Tunes cartoons were like the Disney cartoons or like the universe I mean I guess the Woody Woodpecker is pretty out of control but they were just you know they were a little wilder they were violent they would go heavier into the you know the tech slavery type stuff they were quite a bit more violent yeah Although you can watch some Disney cartoons and there's some messed up stuff.
    78:04
    The Silly Symphony. The classic Mickey Mouse. Yeah, some of the Silly Symphonies and stuff. Yeah, Silly Symphonies, right. It's like Silly Symphonies and Merry Melodies and Looney Tunes. And like whacking a tube over his head. What kind of bootleg-ass shit is this? But it was like, you know, it was Warner Brothers was going to make their own cartoons their own way because they hired creators who were, you know, looking to do something a little bit more wild, you know, your Bob Clampett and stuff like that. Not that I'm a Looney Tunes expert or anything, but I always appreciated them because, yeah, you know, first of all, the cartoons are more accessible. Disney cartoons are always a little bit harder to find, and Bugs Bunny was on Saturday mornings, but they were just funnier.
    78:46
    Yeah, they were. You know, and that's kind of, again, why when they announced, you know, Bugs Bunny is a theme, Looney Tunes is a theme, I mean, it's not the Looney Tunes' first trip to pinball land. No, it's not. They did the wonderful birthday bash. Birthday bash or birthday blowout? Birthday bash. It's kind of birthday bad. Yeah. But, you know, it's a hopefully more triumphant return than the original one. Well, there was another one where they did have a part in the game. Space Jam? Space Jam. Yeah. If you've ever seen one, they didn't make hardly any of those.
    79:24
    They're not easy to find, but they're out there. Yeah. Not very common. It was a low point in pinball. I mean, for sure. Then it became NBA, right? And then that was kind of. Yeah. Much later, they reverted to NBA, which is even rarer. Yeah.
    79:41
    Like Stern NBA was like one of those 2007, 2008 era Sterns where they made like 100 of them. Oh, okay. Okay. I think, right?
    79:52
    Yeah, regardless, I'm psyched, man. I am psyched beyond belief. I can't wait to play this thing with it. I know I have two people in Reno. Ironically, the guy down the street, he's a huge Spooky fan. So he's got an order in and then another friend of mine. And what's cool is he got in like five minutes after the website opened to order. So he's getting it direct. so dude I'm so psyched I can't wait seems like a game that Comic Kingdom would get yeah that would be right you're right that would be good or in any kind of any fun center it would kill it yeah it's going to do well on location as long as it doesn't break down but yeah 888 of them, like, I don't think that, you know, it's going to end up in every Chuck E. Cheese, but, you know. No, it's not.
    80:53
    There's only five Chuck E. Cheese's left open. You've got three people operating in that town who will buy specialty games, you know. Yes. So, you know, that might be lucky. And by the way, it was 250 Stern NBA machines. Oh, good. I'm glad you looked that up. in 2009.
    81:13
    That was at a real low point for them. That was the dark times. Before the dragon came.
    81:26
    Hey, not for nothing, I just want to try to talk about Chuck E. Cheese. Are there any Chuck E. Cheese open in your area, Dan, anymore? Yeah, there's one in Elk Grove. We have one here in Reno, too. Okay, yeah, there's still a few of them. I looked up because Mickey was like, Well, I just read somewhere just a week or two ago that they have removed now or are in the process of removing all the animatronics from all but one of the Chuck E. Cheese locations.
    81:56
    Yeah, because none of the kids watch it anymore. Yeah. You've got to assume most of those systems are, you know, 30 years old and super broken down. Right. They're not fascinating to anybody but you and me and Mark and Brian. Brian loves them. kids now are spoiled I think that like that Five Guys at Freddy's movie probably just kind of made whatever's off the Chuck E. Cheese Corporation go like oh yeah these things are fucking terrifying come on like that should have been the spooky pinball theme Five Guys at Freddy's with like terrifying animal audio animatronics I thought about a horror scene that I really wanted. That's a good thing, though. No, the animatronic, because you could do all kinds of animatronic toys on the Play-Doh with that. Yeah, no, for sure, right? Like you have, you know, they're all trying to murder you. Right.
    82:56
    Because I was thinking about it the other day. I don't even know if you guys know this movie. It's from the 80s. I can't tell you what year. I have to look it up. I would love to see this. This would be real. We're digging deep. The stuff. the stuff. Yeah. I've heard of it, and I'm sure I've seen the box, but I don't think I've ever watched the movie. It's like an additive, right? Like a food additive. Well, it was like a non-dairy frozen dessert treat, okay? So think like not Froger, not ice cream, but something like that. Think like a frozen custard or something, but it was all man-made. They actually found this shit like oozing out of the ground or a cave or something. The movie's description, by the way, is a private detective investigates a new consumer taste treat that's absolutely delicious and just possibly lethal. Yeah, so what it does is it, like, it takes over their body and, like, possesses them and eventually kills them.
    83:57
    And it's so addictive that you have to keep getting more of it. And it's like a life or, like, it's like a bacteria or an enzyme or something. And it's really, I mean, it's a really bad, cheesy movie, but I thought, oh, that would make such a fun pinball thing.
    84:14
    Then the film, A Sweet and Addictive Alien Substance, becomes a popular dessert in the United States, but soon begins attacking people and turning them into zombies. Yeah, man. And like every other zombie movie, the film is a satire on the American lifestyle and consumer society. I knew it. Fucking. I knew it. Okay.
    84:39
    Dan, you had another great theme idea, if I remember correctly. What was that? I don't remember now, but I remember we were talking about it a while back. What about you, Mark? Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Dan. Theme? Are we talking about theme? Are we going to find a theme conversation? I've been trying to steer us there. Well, that's it. You were just segwaying, man. Yes. Well, that's a theme. There you go. I gave you one. No, I'm saying what themes are you – How do you make a pinball machine out of this stuff? I've got to do this.
    85:10
    It's a spooky thing. It's a horror movie. So I think it's important, you know, kind of going back to themes and the importance of things, right? And we talked about Chainsaw Massacre. Like, that's a heavy theme.
    85:23
    And it's going to take a very, like, Walking Dead, right? Or even Halloween. And it's going to take a special pinball fan to like it. But, like, I think that it's important that Spooky makes those games. because that's what Spooky loves. Well, it fits with their... Yeah, it fits with their... Yeah. Yeah, that's what they're known for. I don't think they make any game just for the money.
    85:47
    No. I think that they make the themes that they love. And, you know, I think that it's important that, like, somebody out there isn't afraid to make a game that's, you know, bloody and violent and, you know, definitely rated R. You know, you don't see that. Like, Will, you know, he absolutely loves Rob Zombie.
    86:13
    And I think Rob Zombie is terrible. And his argument isn't that he loves it because it's a great game. He loves the theme and the violence and the profanity and the subject matter. I would never argue that Transformers is a great game, but I love Transformers as a theme. you know, theme sells games. I mean, you know, it's become a bit of a meme in pinball that, you know, it's all about the theme, the theme, the theme. And I don't know if that's always true. I've bought games despite the theme that are good games, and I just want to have them. I have games where I've worked my way around the theme. I have games where I still think that the theme, or at least the theme music, is a detraction from the quality of the game. No, I think Tank Force. But, you know, I was just kind of putting out there, it's just like, you know, Spooky came out with these two new games that have these very disparate themes. And obviously, I think you could tell from our conversation tonight, although Spencer went pretty deep on Texas, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, that I think as a group, we're a little bit more excited by Looney Tunes. But how vital to you guys is the theme when you're buying a game?
    87:37
    Great question, Dan. I can answer that. And there's so many to choose from for themes as far as what I wish could come true. honestly I know this is kind of a cop out but I really want to see a Back to the Future theme done right like really go all out and because there's just so many things you can do with it with the storyline you could throw in all three movies there's just a lot that you could do with that to make it an interesting deep game and honestly that is my I love Back to the Future I mean, I don't have, like, a DeLorean or have, you know, collectibles and stuff like that. But as far as loving the movie. We know you have that puffy orange vest. Say that again? We know you have that puffy orange vest. I do not. I used to, but that was back then. Look at the dark wear life preserver. I know. You mean the Coast Guard one? I like that answer. Yeah. The Coast Guard. But that's not exactly what I'm asking. What I'm asking isn't necessarily what theme do you want. It's like how important is your theme to you?
    88:53
    Like does it trump the quality of the game? Will you buy? If Back to the Future comes out and it's incredibly well-themed, but the game's a little shady,
    89:04
    will you still buy it because you love Back to the Future that much? No. It has to be good theme, good game. It can't be one or the other for me. it has to be a good game.
    89:18
    Definitely, I am kind of on the fence when it comes to that kind of thing, but I would have to say that if it's an original theme that is not actual intellectual property, but something that is original and the game shoots great, if I could afford it, I would get it. Like, for example, Dialed In, I love that game. I wish I could own one. I just haven't put the money towards it just because it's just still, they're getting down in price, but I just. You can get a good deal on Dialed In. But that's a great example, to be honest, right? Dialed In is a great example of a really good game, a Pat Lawler, shoots well, full of stuff, really shitty theme and art. Oh, yeah. Like, just not well-themed. but you would buy one because you care enough for the game. Like you could look past the theme. I could look past the theme. I like gameplay. Gameplay trumps theme for me. I'll give you one for that. Sure. Yeah. Baywatch. I have never, ever seen an episode of this show.
    90:30
    Yeah. No, I never have. Yeah. Zero interest at all in that theme. Zero. I love that game. I would love to have one. That's a fun game to shoot. it is. And I have no interest in the theme.
    90:45
    Yeah. Well, and the thing with Baywatch is, Baywatch was a weird theme, right? Like, you look at Baywatch and you're just like, seriously, they did Baywatch? But Baywatch was like the number one TV show on the planet at the time. You know, same with when they did CSI. We were talking about CSI the other day, and And somebody, I think maybe it was Don's Pinball Podcast, was talking about CSI. And they were saying, oh, man, it's such a great game, but the theme is so blah. And I was like, man, CSI was a big show. I love that show. That show was huge. The game itself is good. You know, it's a baller. But, like, the theme was huge. You know, same with, you know, same with Transformers, right? Like, Transformers was a big gift for Stern. Avatar was the biggest movie in the world at the time. 24. And those games, despite having, like, super, super powerful things, I think 24 was kind of past its prime by the time they got to the pinball machine, but it was still relevant.
    91:53
    Right. Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, Stranger Things is coming back huge, and I think that game must be all themed, because I think it's a distressingly average game. you know theme is the be all end all for pin fans these days but I think to an extent like people are looking past the quality of the game based on the theme like in the long run the quality of the game has to win out but like Rick and Morty is not considered to be a great game it's not you know punishment from God but it's just super well themed like they did such a great job it's super yeah I mean it's yeah like I said though the way that once again see what I'm saying you see that pattern that assets they got the guy who did the voices do the custom calls just like Eric will do the custom calls that's huge you know that is one thing that is really awesome about some of these companies who can get these IPs and get... Come on, Scooby-Doo is another one. They got, you know, gosh, I should know his name. You know, the one that did the voice of Fred. Right. I mean, the actual actor. He's been doing it since 69, yeah. I know. I don't think he actually plays Fred in the game, though, does he? Yeah. I know he plays Scooby. Actually, I guess I have three Scooby voice actors. I think he plays Fred, too. No, he does Fred, too. Yeah, he's done it since 69. And then the guy that did Shaggy... Frank Walker, sorry. I was trying to remember the name. Frank Welker. He's also the voice of Megatron. Yes. He is. He's like Transformers. He's like basically everything else ever. Yeah. Oh, dude, his pedigree on the voices. If you hear an animal in a movie or a game, it's probably Frank Welker. It's Frank Welker. What we grew up with cartoons, it was Frank Welker. Totally. Like every single, what, Super Friends, Hanna-Barbera, just Frank Welker. Super Friends would make an awesome pinball thing. Rock and Wonder Twin Powers? straight out the cheesy 70s super friends. Yeah, yeah. Super friends. I would say even before the Wonder Twin Powers, I would say back when it was like Wendy and Marvin and what was it, Wonder Dog? Wonder Dog or Wonder Mutt?
    94:19
    Wonder Dog. There was a Wonder Dog? I have that on DVD. I'll have to go back and watch it. I'm watching it here. Although if you go to the 80s, you know, you do get the Wonder Twin Powers, and you get the super cool challenge of the Super Friends. But, yeah, I don't know. I was like, I would love that. Like, anything old school cheesy DC, like, would be an absolute winner of a theme. But, you know, I don't know if it's such a strong theme that, like, I would look past a game that I hate. Like, Weird Al is not what I would want to buy in a game. Like, I like the P3, and I respect that Weird Al is a great P3 module, but I bought that game 100% on the strength of the license. Right. Yeah. But it ended up being a good game, right? Yeah. I mean, you like the gameplay. It's super fun. It does a lot of cool stuff. P3 is a neat platform that definitely needs work to be really ready for a prime time.
    95:14
    But at the end of the day, like, anybody could have made Weird Al as long as the game didn't, like, kick me in the nuts every time I played it and I would have given him thousands of dollars for it. Like that theme was, to me personally, so strong and such a pinball machine I thought I would never get. As long as it was a competent, operational pinball machine, I was going to give somebody some money. Right. And I think the theme has become like something that wins the battle, but I think that that maybe is to the detriment of pinball as a whole because you're just getting to the point where we don't care about the games. we just care about the graphics and the sounds and the characters and the sculpts and you know is Labyrinth really a good game? it looks like a pretty good game I'm not saying it looks pretty fun you know but what a weird theme is weird I mean I watched the movie I don't I mean it was really bizarre but you know it had that obviously that Jim Henson flair but it wasn't like the best movie but everybody's like loving that movie I was like okay It's okay, but I was just not wowed because I've never seen it until I watched it. Oh, really? It happened to be on. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm sure I've seen it, but I also was pretty sure it was a little bit older than it is because I guess Labyrinth was like 86, and I was thinking it was more like 82, and somebody pointed out I was probably thinking of the Dark Crystal. Those two get confusing sometimes. Or Never Ending Story. It definitely wasn't Never Ending Story because I've seen Never Ending Story about 600 times. Okay. I still love that movie. That one I like over and over. I know that movie. If I ever get total FU money, like I can just go do whatever I want in the universe. You know, the one thing I'm going to do, and I build a huge ranch, is the entrance is going to be like a scale life-size Southern Oracle.
    97:13
    The Southern Oracle is freaking out. Come on. So it like glows like green or blue. Yeah. I freaked out. Did you get nightmares over that scene? I got to your house. I'll just be in your house. I'll just be yelling at them. Be confident. I just ran out the driveway. Opened up a beer. Be confident, dude. It's okay.
    97:35
    I just came off the driveway. Damn, damn, you're out there. I hated that scene. I freaked out, man. That scared the crap out of me as a kid. I had a lot of stress in it for like a kid's movie, you know, the horse part. you know, when he loses everything, you know, it has like depression. The funny thing is like the guy who wrote the book hates the movie. Oh, really? He wanted him to change the title. He wanted his name removed from it. Wow. And that movie was like the hugest movie ever released in Germany for like a thousand years. Yes, it has. Yep, that's correct. You know, I think that, you know, for most of us, it was like the beginning of video. Like no one saw it in the theater, but we all saw it on video. I would love, like, if I was an Everending Story, I would be like, oh, $10,000, huh? Why am I selling? You want to slightly use a galactic tank force?
    98:29
    Like, that would be a real winner for me. Like, I love that thing. Back to the Future is another one. Like, I would absolutely love a super confidently designed Back to the Future, you know, Muppets. If someone like Muppets got their hands on the Muppets, like, I would absolutely love Muppets. Now, here's something that's thrown out here. It has to be a good game. Yeah. Right? Here's something that – sorry, I interrupted. I apologize, Dan. No, go for it. So here's my question for you. What about going towards a different demographic would it sell if they had a Barbie machine? You know, when the movie came out, I thought it was crazy that nobody jumped on Barbie. I know.
    99:12
    I mean, I'm not saying I'm a fan, but – Man, I just, it would be very interesting, because more and more women are getting into pinball. You can tell. I mean, it's definitely getting more and more popular.
    99:23
    I wouldn't, it would be really cool to try it out and see, maybe like doing a limited edition or something, just to see. You could do a lot with that. I don't know. It would be interesting to see if they ever thought of that. It's a 50-year-old license or a 50-plus-year-old franchise that has legitimately been the top of its field since the day it came out. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's got the legs for it. I mean, can you see women just buying up these? I mean, talking about theme, if somebody was into pinball, I guarantee somebody would get that. Oh, yeah. It's just a given. And I wouldn't be surprised if guys got it, to be honest with you. Well, and you know there are pinheads who will buy anything.
    100:07
    Right. right like they don't buy a Barbie just because they don't think people are going to buy a lot of Barbies because of the you know I own something that you don't attitude but I do think that like it's a license that when American Pinball came out with Hot Wheels I was like dude these guys have found an untapped resource which is toy licenses it's still important to me that no one's doing He-Man no one's doing G.I. Joe's. We got a Transformers, but it was based on the movie. Not even the real good movie from 86, but the 2007 movie, which was okay.
    100:46
    Being a Transformers owner now, I will say that I'm not the biggest fan of the Transformers movie franchise, but they're all watchable, except for like maybe the third and the fourth one. Those are pretty fucking bad. Yeah, the first two I really, really, really like. The first two are good, and the last two have been pretty good. Oh, yeah. And Rise of the Beasts. Yeah. Just kind of across the board, You just sort of look at, you know, the demographic that wants these themes, and it's these guys, you know, again, late 40s, early 50s, that 1985 stuff just hits us right in the face, you know, because it was the stuff that we loved when we were like 10, 11 years old. Right. And some of it stood the test of time. Again, you know, what other Generation House franchises that started 40 years ago that are still just trucking along as strongly, you know? Their kids and their kids' kids are watching their version of Optimus Prime fight their version of Megatron now. Or they're watching their version of He-Man. Ghostbusters, right.
    101:48
    Ghostbusters, I think, is kind of an anomaly to that, though, right? Because they keep trying new versions of Ghostbusters, and they sort of tank. but when they bring something back that ties to our version of Ghostbusters, it does okay. To the world, like, it's got to be Fankman, Stance, Egon, and Winston. It has to be. Right, yeah. They try to have a hand in it. Right, they tried the Chickbusters, right. They did, like, a new team, you know, a new team. Chickbusters. that Steve Vaughn was involved in, and I think it did okay back in, like, the 90s. But, like, yeah, Ghostbusters is, like, there is no new version of Venkman. Venkman is Bill Murray. Yeah. Yeah, so true. Just like there won't be a new version of Indiana Jones. Right. And, you know, that's Harrison Ford. They can try to do it, but, like, the movie going public, I think, you know, short of bringing River Phoenix back from the dead somehow, You're not going to give them a second Indiana Jones that they'll approve of. Right, right. You know a theme when you guys were talking about it that I thought of that I would love to see redone? Because you look at the team, and I love the team,
    103:07
    but the original game just really disappointed a lot of people. It's Rocky and Bullwinkle. Oh. I don't know why anybody would be disappointed by that game, because that game is fucking great. It's not bad. It's not a bad game. It is a wonderful game. It's a decent game. I mean, I still own one. It's got great shots. It's got spectacular theming. The theming, that's what I'm talking about. I think the problem with Rocky and Bullwinkle as a theme is, is like there's you and me and six other people who like it. And it's like what we're talking about with Looney Tunes. It's so ahead of its time, and there was so many layers to those cartoons of the humor. A six-year-old could watch it and laugh because it was funny.
    103:53
    But a six-year-old's grandparents could watch it and laugh about the Cold War innuendo. And that's exactly it. It didn't endure like Looney Tunes did because I think it was a little bit more topical of the era. More like a sitcom. more like a sit-down. You go back now and you watch like old Rocky and Bullwinkle's and you're just sort of like, all right, so we got some spies and we got a moose and a squirrel. What does this all mean? But if you live through that, you understand what the spies and what Rocky and what Bullwinkle represent.
    104:35
    You know, and Jay Ward, like that dude was a genius. That dude was a creative genius. and that's why to me when they made Rocky and Bullwinkle it was in the 90s and they were really pushing hard for a Rocky and Bullwinkle revival I'm sure you guys remember that they did a live action movie yeah yep there were probably some sort of new TV series and they did that pinball machine and it just tanked because the 90s were not ready for Rocky and Bullwinkle you know and I don't know if anybody will ever be ready for Rocky and Bullwinkle again you know it's just it's a great thing that like people of a specific age. I always look back at Rocky and Bullwinkle and being cool because I always felt like it was probably a TV show that really wasn't meant for me. It was very subversive. But I got off on it. Especially like because the shows had the little episodes.
    105:29
    So you have the Rocky and Bullwinkle show and then you have the Sherman and Peabody and you know, it very much had the janitor pushing the cart and you always remember that. And the game did such a good job of putting all those little things in there. Have you ever shopped a Rocky and Bullwinkle? Did you say shot or shopped? Shopped. Shopped out. Yeah, I've played it a bunch, yeah. Have you taken one apart, though? No. It's got graphics hidden under the plastics. Oh, really? It does, huh? It's got a Back to the Future reference in it. It's got a Jurassic Park reference in it. Oh, wow. Like the dudes, somebody at Data East fucking loved Rock and Bullwinkle, and they like really went off on that one.
    106:15
    And, yeah, I had one. I sold it so that I could buy No Fear. And I got it basically for free. I did some work for a guy. And really it's one of those games that I'm always like, oh, man, you know, I would love to find another cheap one because I really do think it's a cool game that's worth keeping around. But I also agree with you from the standpoint that, like, as a game itself, it's maybe not God's gift to machines. You know, it's a 90s day to yeast. But, you know, for something that was basically, you know, $2,000, $2,500. I thought of one that will be the next generation. The next generation that, like, we're all, you know, when we were kids, oh, this is what we watch. I wouldn't doubt it if one of these days, who knows, maybe 10 years from now, SpongeBob will be a pinball machine for those kids that grew up with that. Bro, SpongeBob is 30 years old, man. Yeah, how have they not had a SpongeBob pinball machine already? I know. That's what I'm thinking, you know. I didn't watch it, but I know it was very popular. It still is. It still is pretty popular. Yeah, SpongeBob is huge. Well, you know, if you do it right now or very soon, you get all the voice actors. I mean, they're all still alive, you know. Yeah, true. Which I looked at Frank Welker, over 800 character voices to his credit. Wow. I know. So he was like Mel Blanc? Yeah. So, yeah, no, SpongeBob's a fantastic idea for a team. Yeah. And it's universally, okay, you can have somebody that's older than us, but they had kids in the 80s or in the 90s and go, oh, yeah, I know SpongeBob. Everybody knows Spongebob You know what I mean?
    108:01
    That's another one you guys bring up I was thinking about But I don't want to segue you yet So, no, great idea Yeah I'm cool with Spongebob But I know about Spongebob Right Yeah, we all I mean, I didn't grow up with it myself But I grew up with my daughter You know, with Hannah You know Yeah, when our kids watched it Yeah, and then Seth and Mickey and Malcolm So, yeah Yeah When I was in what? late 20s, I think Spongebob was kind of like, it was still like, I don't think it was new, but it was still like a thing that grown-ups were talking about Spongebob. Yeah, but that's another cartoon that appeals to both kids and grown-ups. And adults. Yeah, and adults. That's a thing that it's almost crazy that, yeah, you haven't seen a Stern or a JJP get on that, because that feels like it would be a big winner among, yeah, that 40, 50 demographic. Right. And you can imagine Patrick the starfish, extra ball.
    109:09
    Right? Yes. I mean, I didn't do that voice at all well, but you get the idea. You have it in your mind's eye what Patrick, you know, kind of chuckling, extra ball, you know, I'm wearing underwear. kind of thing. I've probably seen one episode of that show ever. I've seen a few. But I'm still, like I said, I'm still aware I don't have kids either, so I didn't have to endure it. You didn't have to endure it. I don't know that it exists, and I still know that that is the kind of franchise that it's kind of crazy that you've never seen any of these companies decide, okay, yeah, you know, Spongebob is, you know, going to be the next big thing. when Malcolm was little we'd go to one of my cousins who's a vegetarian and she'd have like veggie burgers and he called them Krabby Patties and to this day my cousins that are vegetarians still they don't even say veggie burger anymore they don't say bokeh burger they're fucking Krabby Patties that's all they call them now because Malcolm started calling them Krabby Patties he could not even at like 7 years old call them in good conscience Just call them a hamburger because hamburgers are made from cows. That's a crab patty.
    110:25
    Shouldn't hamburgers be made from pigs? What's that? Shouldn't hamburgers be made from pigs? Well, they should. Because they're ham burgers. That's right. We got this debate, I think, once over the years. I don't know. I feel like something we probably talked about. You know, another great – Crabby patties because they made them upset. They made them crabby. Is that what it is? Oh, but so, yeah. And also, he's upstairs, but in his stocking every year, he gets the gummy Krabby Patty candies. And we had to look around for them. I found them. It took me a few minutes, but I found them this year. So every year he gets those little gummy Krabby Patties in his stocking. So, yeah, I mean, it has a huge appeal. And this guy, like you said, Dan, has got 30-ish plus years of being a teen. Literally everybody, yeah, why this hasn't been a thing yet? I never thought about it, Mark, but why hasn't it? I know. It just came to me. I don't know why. We were talking about cartoons. We mentioned that. So I been watching because it the holidays you know so I been watching all the Peanuts cartoons again Yeah And you know Great Pumpkin Thanksgiving I haven watched the Christmas one yet but it on my list to do this week because I have my list, you know, that I go through every year. And that's another thing because I don't know who's putting this out, but have you guys been getting ads like on your Facebook or just in the Internet in general for the digital pinball machines They're doing another attack for Mars one.
    111:55
    You know, with the skin. And then somebody, I don't know if it's the company, is doing a peanut skin one. And I'm like, why in the name of God has somebody not done a Peanuts pinball? That's another universal thing. Everybody on the fucking planet knows who Peanuts is. That's true. I mean, not as popular as Peanuts. Like, they did a Peanuts movie a few years ago, and it was cute. Like, I watched the CGI movie. Yeah.
    112:20
    But, yeah, Peanuts is a weird thing. Like, it's definitely a cultural touchstone. It's weird, though, because, like, the thing about Peanuts that I'm sure that you remember, and I'm sure Mark kind of remembers, but you probably don't remember until you look back on it, is, like, there is an immense amount of Peanuts content out there. Oh, yeah. Like, that franchise, you know, you're like, oh, well, Peanuts is a difficult license, and the creator died, and he had very specific rules. But I'm like, uh-uh. It wasn't like Calvin and Hobbes where, like, Bill Watterson's like, you can't make Calvin and Hobbes anything. Like, they've made peanuts everything. I had a peanuts electric toothbrush when I was a kid. You know, the easiest topper ever would be just throw a Snoopy snow cone machine on top of your top. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's one thing. You don't know what the Snoopy snow cone machine is, bro. Oh, my God. I was going to say that. Snoopy snow cone machine topper. And it works. No, but seriously, think about that You bring up a great point Because I've been listening to Christmas music station You know, all day in my truck And they're constantly playing that one With Snoopy and the Red Baron You know, Christmas What a great idea No, you can have the Red Baron And you know, the Sawport Camel And Snoopy They did that with Zen Pinball has a digital version Okay, that's probably what they're using As a skin Snoopy they call it. Yeah, yeah. Think about it. You have, and you have, and like Dan says, you know, if you go back, it's like, okay, everybody knows the main ones. I just mentioned the main cartoons. But there's like, there's like, you know, every holiday, think of that. It's Arbor Day, Charlie Brown. Hand me God, I'm pretty sure. You're not kidding. That exists. Yeah, that's what I mean. Arbor Day. Go on, like, I watched a thing, and I think it was like two hours long where like some guy watched every one. I was watching that. And like, some of them, you're just like, it's too topical, right? Like, it's Flash Beagle, Charlie Brown. Right. That's something that could only have come out the year that, like, Flashdance came out.
    114:26
    And then the only people who know about it are people who know what the fuck Flashdance is. Well, there's like three or four Christmas. I know for sure there's three different Christmas. There's the original Charlie Brown Christmas, which was the very first animated cartoon that they did for Peanuts. And then later on they redid it, and then they redid it a third time where it was like more modern. It wasn't, you know, it was more modern. They redid it. They just did like it's Christmas time again. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But see, it's the Christmas, you know, to completely derail because we've gone off of pinball things so hard. Is the Christmas one the best or is the best one it's the Great Pumpkin? Because it's clearly the Great Pumpkin. Oh, yeah, it's the Great Pumpkin is the best one out of all of them. Or the Thanksgiving one. In my opinion. It's like toast and jelly beans and popcorn. It's Thanksgiving, yeah. Yeah, and everybody freaks out. That one's great. My favorite part of that where they're singing, they're on their way to grandma's, because, like, hey, I got all these friends here, and their mom is hell, and they're hungry. Oh, bring them along? Great. So they're in the back of the station wagon, and they're singing, over the river and through the woods to grandmother's house we go. And, of course, Charlie Brown has a completely distinct that ballad she'll put, but my grandmother lives in a condominium.
    115:37
    It's like, hey, Charlie, shut the hell up, okay? You know? You know, and the debate of Great Pumpkin versus Charlie Brown Christmas, which one's actually better?
    115:50
    Okay, like, if you look at, and the guy, the same guy, I think, Dan, that did the documentary thing or the, you know, I watched every single peanut special ever, and here's my thoughts.
    116:01
    In Charlie Brown Christmas, Linus is, like, the wise one. He knows the true story of Christmas. He, like, seems to be the only cat in the whole film that gets it. And then you get over to Great Pumpkin And he's this chatterhead Believing in the fucking Great Pumpkin And conning Sally to give up candy To come out and wait for Great Pumpkin To get all the goodies And she gets totally burned And he's out there looking like a knob Like a little cult leader With no following It's funny It's true though It's like what are you doing man There's no Great Pumpkin You're an idiot That's funny I know we talked about theme a lot And this might add a couple more minutes Or who knows As far as music goes I know Spencer you and I are both waiting for it Maybe even you too Dan When is a Van Halen pinball machine coming out Come on When is it coming out So many good songs from them Of course they probably have to get licensed It's never coming out Because the Van Halens are jerks Honestly Wolfgang sounds like he's a really good kid. Yeah. Like, I listened to one of his interviews where he was talking about his band and, you know, the legacy and, you know, dad and Uncle Alex and all that. But, yeah, the Van Halen rights are not going to be. That's the problem, right? It's the Van Halen rights. So I guess we're going to get Journey is what I'm hearing for Rumors, which is awesome, too. Yeah. I don't know, man. I like Journey probably as much as the next guy, but, like, I can't see there being a Journey pinball machine. Yeah. There was a video game. There was a video game in, like, 1982. And that was terrible. I mean, it was the first usage of digitized graphics. That's true. It did have their heads in there, yeah. It had an 8-track player. That was one of the songs of the final house. It still had an 8-track for the game. It had an 8-track, yeah. I guess, yeah. Spencer? No, that's why I couldn't bring up that point. You beat me to it. You know what's awesome about Spencer? it's not that he's trying to be rude it's that he's so excited to say something that he has to say when I'm fucking talking no no no you get me to it but no I'm glad you brought it up I was just excited 50 hours of audio of you doing this I know I'm sorry I was excited you brought it up because I had that on my in my mind like hey there's a weird trivial point about that but I was saying that weird trivial point when you made it I know, but it might be me too. So we're on the same page. No, but that used to be a thing with all the old electromechanical, like the gun games and stuff. Do you know the other Bally Williams game that had an 8-track in it to play the game's soundtrack? I do not.
    118:53
    It's called Two Tigers. And it plays like war music. And it's like this really cheesy little game where you're like dropping bombs on ships. Like, look it up on YouTube or something. You're like, this is an arcade game?
    119:09
    It looks like an Atari 2600 game. But it was super fun. That's cool. I know that Chicago Coin had one of my favorite, I guess you could say, electromechanical game, which was Junkyard. And they had an 8-track that was doing the sound of, like, the junkyard and machinery and stuff.
    119:31
    Yeah, so it could loop. You have the little metal cars that you pick up with a crane. I love that game. Oh, my God. It's so freaking hard to have in a game room. I know. They're so hard to find. They're hard to find. You know, Grinker's had one. Do you remember the toy Clyde's Car Crusher?
    119:49
    Yes. I'm shocked because I thought I was the only person here who remembers that. Do you remember that, Spencer? I don't. I love the Car Crusher game. It came with like a little mold and you would take a piece of tinfoil and you would smush and basically make like a car shaped shell. I remember that now. Then you put it on the conveyor belt and you turn the crank and it crushes it into a little plane. I thought it was the greatest thing, except for the fact that my folks were too cheap to buy me tinfoil so I could play with it. So, if you've got a junkyard and you're moving little cars, I'm like, oh, fuck, Clyde's Car Crusher. That's the theme, man. Clyde's Car Crusher is a pinball machine.
    120:34
    I would pay any price. You know what would be great? You know what I feel like? Oh, sorry, Spencer. Go ahead, bro. Okay, no, no. Re-theme.
    120:45
    It has the car crusher in it, sort of. Street Fighter. Re-theme Street Fighter. Yeah, don't rethink Street Fighter.
    120:55
    Like, make a new Street Fighter game that doesn't suck. Yeah, I don't like that game at all. For $1,500, Gottlieb Street Fighter 2 is rad.
    121:05
    Yeah. Like, for, you know, what pinball machines cost now, no. Funny story, when I got my Rocky and Bullwinkle from the guy, I was originally doing the work for a Gottlieb Street Fighter, and I ended up saying, hey, can I take the Rocky and Bullwinkle instead? And he said, sure.
    121:20
    Good choice. Oh, absolutely, right? I hate Street Fighter. How are you not going to make that choice? You literally hate it? It's that bad? Yeah, I didn't like it that much. Like, I don't think it's terrible. It's got that 90s Gottlieb flavor. It's okay. Yeah, it's not much of a... Think about this, though. Think about it this way, right? So, is it a good game? Yes, no, maybe. But it's different.
    121:46
    Yeah. You don't see it in a lot of people's collections. And, you know, again, for a one-game guy, like, maybe you don't have the luxury of buying something just because it's weird and different. But, you know, I find myself, like, going to places that have big collections. I'm like, oh, great, Medieval, Attack from Mars, Circus Voltaire, all the new sterns. I've played these a million times. Oh, fucking Street Fighter, man. I'm definitely playing that.
    122:11
    Oh, dude, you've got to know fear. I've got to put some games through that. Oh, Stargate? Like, I find myself gravitated towards, like, the B and the C games that you just, nobody has. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. You know, as a collector, you know, eventually it's just like, you can play all the popular stuff to death. But, you know, some of those weird, like, off titles, the ones that you're dying to get rid of when you first have them because it's such a shitty game and you just really want an attack from Mars. Now it's like, well, everyone's got attack from Mars. I know five people with an attack from Mars. I know zero people with a Street Fighter II.
    122:50
    Except for Jack. Jack probably has one somewhere. Adam had one for a short time, didn't he? Like a real short time? That dude also has a complete wall of Gottlieb. So he definitely loves games that nobody else has. In fact, I think that for Adam, that's kind of his tenant for collecting.
    123:10
    Yeah. Mm-hmm. If you have a top one, he probably doesn't want it. Huh. Yeah, another game that the theme just, like, I'm blank on it. Like, why? But I love the gameplay, and I love the layout. Mario Andretti. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. I kind of have a funny game. That theme plays big. And if you look, I bet there are a lot of different things. Yeah, in Europe and then amongst people that are into racing. Yeah. I was going to say, actually, I'm probably wrong because Mario Andretti didn't drive Formula 1, did he? He drived Indy.
    123:45
    So they don't do Indy racing in Europe. But I bet you that it came out right around the same time. I don't know about Indy. Well, yeah. Yeah. No, isn't Indy, isn't that Formula 1? I thought it was. Or is it just open wheel?
    124:00
    No, Formula 1 is Indy. They're not even remotely the same thing. Formula 1. They're not. Well, you would know because you have an Indy 500. Well, yeah, let me explain. So Formula One, we'll have to get Scott Busie on here to lay it out, but I'll give it to you. Formula One is track racing, right? So there's curves and stuff like that.
    124:23
    Indy is basically NASCARs but open wheel. Like they race on ovals and they go incredibly fast. Driving is not nearly as technical. So, what if it rides on a regular street like the one in Vegas they just had? Is that Formula One? That's Formula One.
    124:43
    Okay. Because they race like in Italy or Monaco, and they race through the streets of the city. Yeah, they race all over the place. But Indy cars, you know, they're called Indy cars because of Indianapolis. Right. Okay. So, they're not the same. Yeah, it's a much more American kind of thing. I did not know this. I didn't know that either, thanks for that tidbit. Yeah, the cars look similar, but the Formula One cars are a magnitude of complexity over the Indy cars. Indy cars are basically like, they have big wings so they stick to the track, they have giant tires, and they go in circles. Okay.
    125:25
    Interesting. I'm correct. I think Mario Andretti was a super famous Indy car driver. Right. I don't know if that would even be relevant in Europe. But in Europe, for example, they have Grand Prix, you know, which is kind of their generic. It's their version of our NASCAR. Right.
    125:41
    So they might have something similar to that. Okay. Yeah, Scott Buse is a big racing fan, isn't he? Oh, dude, that dude's like a legit racing fan. I actually met his buddy at Pinnagogo, Don. And Don's like his racing benefactor. And, yeah, those guys, like, you know. And it's real racing for them. Like, I might be like, oh, yeah, racing, like NASCAR, and they'll, like, slap me in the face. Like, no, real racing.
    126:11
    Real cars, but. No, I mean, I don't know if we proved anything with this talk about themes, but, like, you know, I did ask the webpage if anybody had anything to say about themes, and nobody really did. But, you know, I think to sum it up, I mean, obviously themes are the driving force of pinball right now. I think, you know, you want a theme that people want to buy. You want a theme that people want to give a chance to. It's really hard to win with a game like Black Knight, you know, which is hard and a theme that nobody knows. But, you know, if you stuck Rick and Morty on it, you know, everybody would want it. Anyone else have anything else to say about it?
    126:52
    We've been talking about it for a while now. I have a question. Why is there this big – yeah, why is there a Black Knight, no, Rick and Morty game? But, no, I – yeah.
    127:01
    No, you make great points. We all have great points. You would be like Rick in a mech suit. Okay. And he would be even more of an asshole. There you go. No, you bring a great point. There was a time when, you know, non-licensed, you know, original IPs were super hot. And it's nice to see that, you know, they are making a slight comeback, but licensed teams are still killing it, you know. There was a time when every other pinball machine was about billions. Yeah Right And cards Yeah Billions and cards Yeah Bar teams right Or soccer Yeah Or Cowboys Well let's have a video game theme Pinball machine Come on We gotta We'll get one of those too And we had a Super Mario but What's the one They just made a TV show I think A Fallout We've had Mario We've had Street Fighter Oh yeah Fallout would be huge Like dudes like Will would like Love that Yeah. Oh, Fallout, yeah. Yeah. Too many. That's the problem. There's too many themes. You've got to pick one. It's like lately we've seen themes that have been redone. Well, like Ninja Turtles was a great example. People are like, man, I love Ninja Turtles. The original game, yeah, it left a lot to be desired. And then they came out with another one. You know, that's why I mentioned Machiavelli and Bullwinkle. Like Looney Tunes, you know. I mean, because everybody goes, God, I want a Looney Tunes game. Well, you know, there's Birthday Bash. Like, no, I want a good Looney Tunes game. And they're delivering it finally. Yeah. I've been waiting for this for a long time, too. You have, you know? Yeah. So, especially if you need a family scene or you want a family scene, something where the kids can play with the grandparents, you know, because you're not really going to give them Rob Zombie, you know? No. Grandma absolutely loves the, what is it, like, Thunder Kiss 75?
    128:53
    Dracula? Yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't know when Rob Zombie calls her a chicken fucker. Yeah, yeah.
    129:04
    Rob Zombie doesn't call her that. Captain Spalding does. Oh, Captain Spalding. Pardon me. Yes, okay. Yeah, so.
    129:12
    I don't know, guys. So we have, no, but you're on a great point. So we have, well, we have a topic. So we got anything else to say about themes? No, we're good. No, I can go on. You said it all. Yeah. No, no, we can go on ad nauseum. Well, you know, it's really funny. I listened to the last podcast. We have. I was listening to the last Final Round podcast, and they made sure to do an entire episode. And I'm listening to the episode as I'm working and driving, and I'm like, they're not talking about pinball at all. They can say they're in an episode, like a two-hour episode or whatever, and they're like, yep, we did a whole episode and didn't talk about pinball one bit. It's like, okay, well, at least we're talking about pinball. So we're going to talk about all the games that came out this year, 2023, and that have actually shipped games. We're going to list them. We're not going to talk about them. I don't think we have that kind of time. We're not. We're just going to go over them, and we're going to ask our listeners, our audience, go on our Facebook page, like us, follow us. Yeah, we're going to talk about them next episode. We're going to talk about them next episode. I'm going to give you a list, And we'll put it on our Facebook page. What's the list? Put it on the Facebook. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So from Stern Pinball, they came out with Foo Fighters, Venom, and 007 60th Anniversary. The regular James Bond was actually 2022. But the 007 60th Anniversary game wasn't released until 2023. So Foo Fighters, Venom, 007.
    130:50
    Weird, huh? So they only came out with two Cornerstones this year. And then from Jersey Jacks, they got two games out this year, shipped. Because they are. How many have they shipped? Elton Young? They're starting to ship, yeah. Okay. And Godfather, of course.
    131:12
    From Spooky, we got Scooby-Doo. From American, we got Galactic Tank Force. Game of the year. most likely and then from please don't let me get this wrong barrels of fun we have labyrinth because labyrinths have shipped there are some on location so those are what's out there if I missed one you know what man I got a life too I don't think I missed anything I really don't think I missed anything I kept thinking with Stern because I originally wrote down um Was Queen this year? No, it wasn't. I looked. I double checked that. It was actually 2022. They may not have actually shipped it until 2023, but according to Pinside, it's a 2022 release. And I'm going off Pinside. So if they're wrong, not my fault. Yeah, Pinside's fault. It looks like everything in the hobby these days. Yeah.
    132:13
    So, yeah. And I did not... I actually wrote down... I wrote down Pulp Fiction, but then Dan and I, before Showtime talked, and he goes, they haven't shipped those at all yet. I'm like, okay, that's what I thought. I wasn't sure, but, so I scratched it off. So, Foo Fighters Venom, 00760, it's anniversary, Godfather, Elton John, Galactic Tank Force, Scooby-Doo, and Labyrinth. And I didn't add in any of the ones that were like the Blood Red Kiss, Elvira, because it's just another reissue of the game that already existed. It has to be new of this year. Hasn't been new to 2023.
    132:50
    I think that's fair. So those are the choices. We'll put them on our Facebook page. You vote on them. You tell us, the listener, what you think is the best game of 2023. We're just listening to Dan because he's right. The game of the year. Sorry, I have to add one. P3 Final Resistance. Oh, Final Resistance. There's one. Thank you. Okay. P3 P. Okay. We'll add that. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. P3 Final Resistance. You know, they've got that as a giveaway on Project Pinball right now. Cool. A P3 with Final Resistance? Okay. Was that released in 23? Oh, yeah, because we went to Golden State. It was 2023 in May, and we played it there. Yeah, and they're shipping. And hopefully, Dan, you'll be getting yours eventually. I still haven't heard anything from Multimorphic.
    133:46
    Dan's Multimorphic update. He pre-orders stuff and Multimorphic never ever calls him. They're like, thank you for your money.
    133:59
    Yeah. Are they still doing Weird Al's as well? Yeah, you can still get any of the modules, I think. Oh, okay. I wasn't sure.
    134:13
    Huh, okay. Wow. I haven't really kept up lately. Well, ads weren't even on the one. Yeah, well, it's like, you know, you think about something. You don't just say it out loud, and then ads show up on your, you know, homepage feed. They're like, they're reading my mind. You know, I got to get my tinfoil hat. My favorite one still was when somebody in pinball league was at our dear friend Henry's and put dildos on the shopping list on Alexa. Alexa, thank you. I don't want any of that stuff in my house Because I've seen all the Terminator movies So No I'm not kidding And it's so goddamn ironic When I was a kid You owned a smartphone though I didn't feel like I had a house I do own a smartphone That's enough And I don't trust that fucking thing Okay I will beat that to death with a hammer If it gives me any back thought No but you know as a child I dreamt of the day When science fiction would become real and I would have a house that talked to me and I could talk to it and it's like turn on the lights and then demolition man illuminate, deluminate I'm like oh that would be so cool and here we are where I can have that stuff readily and I'm like I don't want that shit in my house you know crazy world we live in so I think that's it thank you Mark for adding the P3 and And, no, it's just been an interesting year for pinball. And there'll be a lot more exciting things in 2024. Yeah, there will. Especially we're all waiting on the next turn game. What is it going to be? Everything that was announced this year. Yes, correct. I can't wait to play Pulp Fiction.
    136:04
    Yeah, yeah, no kidding. Hopefully, hopefully it comes in 2024. Well, is it Dutch Pinball getting ready to announce a new game? Yes, that's what I heard. Only took them 11 years. Yeah.
    136:24
    I guess they're finally done producing Big Lebowski. Back to the theming. That was a game that the theming was very well done. Absolutely. So, are we up to shout out some thank yous? We should be by now. It's really funny because I'm like, oh, man, this guy, hey, Mark, at the beginning of March, hey, this is going to be a really quick episode. I'm like, no, we'll find something to talk about.
    136:49
    Two hours and 22 minutes in. You're going to have some editing to do, pal. Yep, I am. Well, I'm going to shout out to Kendra for really cracking the whip and bringing it home for you guys at the Capital Quarter Pinball League Lodi section. Good for her. You know, it's nice to see her really coming in Noro. That's awesome. Yeah, she's doing really cool. Good job, Kendra. Yeah, and Alex, of course, you know, winning another one. Well, it's Alex. And then, you know, Adam taking third, you know. And Cheddar, bless his heart. Shout out to our own Cheddar for taking the B division. Cheddar's consistent. He's one of those guys where it's like when you go up against Cheddar, because he always plays well, you know. He always makes you laugh and makes you lose focus, too. So, you know, he's such a jovial, outgoing, funny guy, you know. Well, he didn't play well the other day. That's how he ended up with the B Division trophy. Now, what is that? But he didn't play well the other day. That's how he ended up with the B Division trophy. Is that what it was? Okay.
    137:56
    Well, okay, because I had the opportunity a few seasons ago when I was still living there to take you out, Dan, because I'd taken out Michael Hozier. I had taken out Adam, I believe, and I was up to you. And I just choked. And you were on that day. In fact, that was the day you won, I believe.
    138:15
    Yep, that was my best day of pinball ever. And, you know, like I said, it was down to you and me in the finals. I was like, because I took – No, it was me and Rick in the finals. Well, yeah, but I mean it was like I took fourth or third. I think I took fourth that day. Yeah, because I think Chris Bright was third. Yeah, yeah. And I lost to you because you were on fire, man. You were unbeatable that day.
    138:41
    That feels so good. Yeah, I don't know. I have so many shout-outs. I used to be so good at pinball, I don't know what happened. I'm so bad now.
    138:52
    You know what it is? It's like bringing up like Kendra and other people, too, that are newer to the league. You see them come in. I always really enjoy seeing somebody come in brand new, and they were relatively or absolutely new to pinball. And they come in and they, you know, they wouldn't post real high, but they had a good time. And then you see them by the second or third team, you see them progressing to the point like, hey, you made the finals. That's awesome, you know. And like, oh, wow, you know, and they'd be like at the bottom of the finals, you know, like if it was 14 slots, they'd be like at 13 or 14, but they make it into the A Division finals. You know, hey, man, good for you. Good job. He played really good. And they might have a night where they place in the top three. You know, and you're like, man, you're really improving. And then to see him actually take home a trophy, it's like, good for you, man. And then the next thing you know, it's like, damn, they're a powerhouse now. You know, they're tough to beat.
    139:48
    This is not a gig on Kendra. She is legit. Like, she has been getting better. I've watched her progress. I've watched her move up the rankings. Yeah. But, no, I am worse.
    140:02
    Like, she didn't, you know, she did not beat me. She definitely beat me. And she beat me on games that I chose. I was driving the bus. But she has gotten a lot better. But, man, I do not know what's happened.
    140:15
    I need to practice or something. I think I need to update my prescription. Maybe I can see the ball.
    140:22
    That would help. Yeah, yeah. That would help. But, yeah. Yeah. No, it's funny. would talk about that is I had to go for a physical a year and a half ago and I took an eye test. And I've been one of the readers for some time. And I failed the eye test. Like, you gotta go get prescription lenses, man. You know. And I had no idea. And I was like, joking around with everybody because it's pretty much true. Like, I've been for like, before that, for like the last four or five years, I'd literally been driving around like Mr. McGill. No fucking idea I was that blind. I'm joking with people. I was driving down the road going, Hey, hon, look, a petting zoo. Spencer, that's a car wash, you asshole.
    141:08
    Oh, okay. I was that blind. I had no idea, right? It's like, shit, I can see now. Good lord. I just use the readers.
    141:21
    Because when I got to read, I got to read you know, script or documents or whatever. So I put on my reading glasses. But when I was driving, it was just like, you know, no, no big deal. I'm like, holy shit, I can see now? Because all the time I was missing fucking like three-way off ramps and shit because I didn't see the sign. I just thought, man, no big deal, you know. But, yeah, it's a big deal. So, yeah, get your eyes checked. There's my PSA for the day, kids. Get your eyes checked frequently. How to win a pinball. Be able to beat the ball. Yeah, get your prescription updated, Dan.
    141:53
    I'm not even joking No you really should That might be part of it I thought you were better at soldering I just don't even try that I gotta get some work done on a couple of boards I'm just gonna send them out I gotta get a hold of Rob Anthony And say hey here's what I got going on Beyond Candor shout out to all our wonderful listeners I'm sorry I really got nothing man I mean not that our listeners are nothing and all 28 of them. No, you guys are great. Thank you for all the support. It's been a good year for pinball, and 2024 looks to be a better year. I think we're up to like 90 fans on the Facebook now. I know. Ooh, nice. Yeah, so those are my shout-outs and thank yous. And thank you to you guys. Thank you to Dan for putting up with my excitement when I interrupted him, and it wasn't because I was trying to interrupt you. I was just really excited that somebody else actually remembered that about that game. No, no, I figured that out. Just knock it off. I will knock it off. No, but I did because I – like, that game's from, like, 81, right? 81, 82? It's an old game, man. So, I mean, I was, like, a sophomore in high school when that came out. So you were what, Dan, like, sixth grade?
    143:07
    When you were a sophomore in high school, I'll be surprised if I was born. No, but you knew that about that game, and you never said – What year is it? What year were you a sophomore in high school? 82. So I was seven. Oh, 10th grade, 10th grade. I was 6 to 7 years old in 82 yeah but you know about that I'm a giant dork well you are because of the era it's so funny because like you said it was the first game with digitized actual photos of people yeah that's true I'm a giant dork That's true So it's so funny because you've got this new modern technology It's like yeah but we're still using the 8 tracks For the music And it's like It's ironic you know You couldn't put more than a couple seconds Of digitized speech in the game Because it took so much memory And memory was expensive Can I do my shout outs now Yes I'd like to do a shout out to Spencer I think Spencer is a wonderful dude and he tolerates a lot of abuse from me specifically with tremendous humor and I know he's looking for this to turn into a burn but it won't thank you Spencer, thanks to Mark and for he's the one who's going to take this giant pile of humor and turn it into something that resembles a cohesive episode, hopefully he'll cut out half the time they all did Spencer so I don't seem like a complete butthole.
    144:48
    Thanks to the CCPL crew, all the players, all the admin, all the management. Congratulations to Eric Neff, Cheddar, who's taking over as the load-eye manager from me next season. Thank you for doing that so I can hopefully enjoy pinball again. And thank you to my optometrist who, after I go see you in a couple weeks, hopefully I can win a pinball again. There you go. Go get it, Mark. That's awesome. My shout-out is to you guys for having a really fun 2023 year with the Spinner's Lit. Just really fun, not only that, but also outside of it, just coming to visit you, Dan, and, you know, chat back and forth and keep this friendship. It's really nice to hang out, be on, you know, have a podcast and talk about all the stuff we're all passionate about. But most importantly, just our really great friendship between the three of us. Spencer, thanks for starting this podcast from the beginning. I mean, you started it solo, and it's come out to be a great show that I'm hoping more and more people listen to because we kind of go off of the rails, but that makes it unique. So shout-out to you guys. shout out to Ted for having us have this team league format for our first year or first season to try it out and see how it went. There were a couple of bugs we had to work out in the beginning, but we really got it smoothed out. And I'm sure he's going to add a little more improvement for next season. But overall, what a great concept to be able to play against different teams instead of playing as a single person against everybody else. So I'm excited for that to continue and keep growing. Maybe we'll get up to eight or even ten teams now. But, yeah, the pinball scene is growing leaps and bounds here. And thanks to Ted as well as also can't forget Jim for all his effort he's put in for 2023 to get as many Whopper points as we can get for the tournaments that he holds, as well as Cody, who has his. And now we also have Tony in Incline Village that holds tournaments. So it's a lot of work, and we appreciate you hosting those events. So here's to 2024 to have a really great pinball year and be more and more excited about what we all love.
    147:19
    Hear, hear. Well said, gentlemen. I can't take this any further Just because I got nothing else I can say You know Merry Christmas, Happy New Year to everybody Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa If that's your jam, I don't know Or it's got to be It's got to be, yeah I always love that I don't even agree with this I got a lot of problems with you people So from All of us at the Spinner Lit To all of you, all 16 listeners Oh, it's 18. All 18 listeners. Dozens and dozens of Spinner's Lick fans. There you go. See you in 2024. Play pinball. Keep America strong.
    148:25
    you