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74: Triple Gains Pinball Podcast

Pinball Party Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 43m·analyzed·May 27, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Pinball Party discusses Stern relations, market pricing concerns, review integrity, and welcomes returning guests.

Summary

Jason from Pinball Party Podcast discusses listener feedback about Stern support, pricing concerns in the secondary market, and the importance of unbiased reviews for hobbyists. He pitches absurd pinball theme ideas (Dawn's Dish Soap, Windows Vista, medical anxiety, pre-shit pants) and welcomes guests Kale and Doc Monday back to the show after they attended a Stern factory tour.

Key Claims

  • Stern reached out to say they are huge fans of the show and have been listeners since the beginning

    high confidence · Jason, host of Pinball Party Podcast, stated this as a recent development after discussing community feedback last week

  • Prices for pinball machines have been going down rapidly and we don't know where the bottom is

    high confidence · Jason discussing listener feedback about secondary market pricing; referenced as observable reality the community is seeing

  • It's hard to sell Jaws, the newest hottest game, without taking a severe loss

    high confidence · Jason discussing current market conditions and secondary market challenges

  • Stern tech support does not have a proper ticketing system and all emails go to one shared computer

    medium confidence · Listener 'Pickle' submitted feedback about Stern's technical support infrastructure; Jason agreed with the critique

  • Accessory items like expression lights should ship day one with machines

    medium confidence · Listener Pickle's feedback; Jason indicated agreement with the criticism

  • Neutral, unbiased reviews are crucial for the pinball hobby and prevent hobbyist burnout

    high confidence · Jason's extended commentary on review integrity, using Led Zeppelin Pro as an example of a game that received overly positive reviews

  • Topper prices at Stern are excessively high relative to the base machine cost

    medium confidence · Listener Pickle feedback, Jason agreed with characterization of inflated accessory pricing

  • The pinball hobby has become much harder to enter due to rising secondary market prices and decreased resale value

    high confidence · Extended listener email from someone who got into the hobby in 2015; Jason validated the comparison to buying a car

Notable Quotes

  • “We're nothing without you, pinball party without meth.”

    Jason (or character read aloud) @ Opening — Comedic opening bit showing the show's lighthearted tone

  • “No more media stuff. I'm over it. Healthily.”

    Jason @ Early in episode — Jason clarifying his position after previous episode discussion about media dynamics

  • “That was my bad the way I framed it as in like, here's me saying, hey, I'm trying to like lift up and do this stuff with people yet at the same time, I'm like ostracizing it. That was hypocritical on my part.”

    Jason @ Early segment — Jason apologizing for previous episode's framing about media creators and industry dynamics

  • “Neutral reviews are so important... unbiased, without any sort of hidden intention.”

    Jason @ Mid-episode discussion — Core statement about review integrity and its importance to the hobby's health

  • “If everyone just says every game is great and someone buys games based on that, gets burned like no, Led Zeppelin Pro is not great... you're going to stop trusting said reviewer.”

    Jason @ Review integrity discussion — Specific example of how universally positive reviews damage credibility and hobbyist trust

  • “The bubble sure has burst and now it's like buying a car of sorts.”

    Listener (quoted by Jason) @ Listener email segment — Characterization of how the market has shifted from accessible hobby to major financial commitment

  • “Your show always keeps me laughing during my physical therapy... you're such an entertaining, positive voice in our hobby.”

    Listener with young onset Parkinson's disease @ Listener mail segment — Emotional listener feedback showing the show's impact beyond pinball discussion

  • “Charge $13,000 for an LE. Put Star World in there, Expression Lights, holy shit. That thing would be an absolute killer.”

Entities

JasonpersonSterncompanyKalepersonDoc MondaypersonNorth Star Pinball CollectiveorganizationPicklepersonPinball EddiepersonJersey JackcompanySpookycompanyAmerican Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Jason apologizing for previous episode's framing of media creators as 'shills,' clarifying he didn't intend to ostracize content creators like Jason, Erica, Ian, Kale, and Rachel

    high · Jason explicitly apologized to media creators by name and acknowledged hypocritical framing in previous episode

  • $

    market_signal: Rapid price decline in secondary market pinball machines with uncertain floor; difficulty selling even hot new releases like Jaws without severe losses

    high · Jason stated 'prices lately are going down so fast that it's like we don't know where the bottom is' and 'when it's that hard to sell Jaws, the newest, hottest game, without taking a severe loss'

  • ?

    product_concern: Stern accessories like expression lights not shipping day-one with machines, creating customer frustration

    medium · Listener Pickle feedback: 'Get the damn accessories out the door day one, especially expression lights'

  • ?

    product_concern: Stern tech support lacks proper ticketing system; emails reportedly go to a single shared computer with Outlook

    medium · Listener Pickle: 'Fix your fucking tech support so you actually have a ticketing system. They don't even create tickets. It's just email.'

  • ?

    product_concern: Topper prices at Stern are considered excessive relative to base machine cost

    medium · Listener Pickle: 'Reduce the insane topper prices so topper people don't feel like they are getting raped twice'

Topics

Stern customer support and service qualityprimarySecondary market pricing and resale value declineprimaryReview integrity and media bias in pinball coverageprimaryPinball media community dynamics and relationshipsprimaryHobbyist entry barriers and affordability concernssecondaryStern factory tour and community event accesssecondaryPinball game theme ideas and creative conceptssecondaryParasocial behavior and stalking concerns in pinball communitysecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.45)— Jason's tone is reflective and apologetic regarding previous episode fallout, grateful for community support, but also concerned about market conditions. Discussion of pricing collapse and review credibility issues carries negative sentiment. Guest arrival and lighter segments inject positive energy. Overall: cautiously optimistic with underlying market anxiety.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.312

0:00
All right, I wrote this little poem, and I would like to share it. It reads as follows. I miss my little fella like a restaurant misses its chef. We're nothing without you, pinball party without meth.
0:18
Gay. God damn it. What? You can't say that. Stop trying to put it in my robot hole. I'm not trying to put it in your robot hole, man. I don't want you inside me.
0:32
Disgusting. I hate you, but I love you at the same time. You want to suck me. I do not. Yeah, you do. Let me be crystal clear. I do not want to suck you. While I do miss you, your terribleness and all. I miss you too. I do not, in fact, wish to suck you. Thank you, Mef, for ruining the last 50 seconds of my life. And to everyone else, welcome back to the Pinball Party Podcast. Welcome back.
1:07
Back to doing this for the reason of doing it. Making fun audio, talking about pinball. No more media stuff. I'm over it. Healthily. So, let's have this theme song back. Shall we?
1:23
It's so good. Okay, I have this backlog of things from listeners who have written in, a smorgasbord of catching up to do on everything. Again, to all the patron subscribers, a big thank you. To the continued listenership, thank you. And to all those who wrote in after last week saying, aw, or pity party. I didn't need a pity party. I was just, you know, doing the thing, hitting record, being honest. and Stern reached out as well, actually, a couple from them, and just to say, hey, we're actually huge fans of the show, have been listeners since the very beginning, and that meant a lot to hear it, so let's just keep going and see where this party takes us. To all of those media content creators who did go, I did not mean when I talked about this last week to insinuate that you are all or any of you are shills. And I know a couple reached out and I apologize. That was my bad the way I framed it as in like, here's me saying, hey, I'm trying to like lift up and do this stuff with people yet at the same time, I'm like ostracizing it. That was hypocritical on my part. And, you know, for what it's worth, especially Jason, Erica, Ian, Kale, Rachel, the people who I do know who are on the list of this. I consider friends or at least very much friendly into this content. So I totally understand if I had burned a bridge or two or anything by saying what I said. Hopefully I did not do irreparable damage, but I really just wanted to say publicly to those. That was not my intention. And I was really trying to just say from my point of view how it affected me. So really just trying to double down. I know I did respond to a couple of you. But hey, at the end of the day, I chose to record and release that. So any of that fallout is my own fault.

Jason (discussing Super Mario World pinball) @ Theme ideas section — Jason's enthusiasm for hypothetical Super Mario World game with specific features

  • “Don't be weird and like... don't stalk people. May or may not be dealing with something like that.”

    Kale (guest) @ Guest segment — Serious warning about parasocial behavior and stalking concerns in the pinball media community

  • “It wasn't because of reach or anything... I think that's why I got an invite but it's not because of reach.”

    Jason @ Discussion about Stern factory tour invites — Clarification that Stern event invites were relationship-based, not metrics-based

    • Flippin' Out Pinball
    organization
    Zachperson
    Gregperson
    Nicoleperson
    Ray Dayperson
    Jack Dangerperson
    Gomezperson
    Gary Sternperson
    Brianperson
    Loser Kidperson
    Albert (Orbital Albert)person
    Kerry Hardyperson
    Carol Hernandezperson
    ?

    content_signal: Jason discussing the importance of neutral, unbiased reviews for preserving hobbyist trust and preventing community burnout

    high · Extended discussion about how universally positive reviews (e.g., Led Zeppelin Pro) damage credibility and cause hobbyists to disengage from the hobby

  • ?

    venue_signal: North Star Pinball Collective in Savage, Minnesota operates 54 games with regular tournaments and community events

    high · Jason praised the venue as a source for playing newer machines and rare games within 1-2 hours of Wisconsin

  • ?

    hobbyist_signal: Pinball hobby has shifted from accessible entry point to major financial commitment requiring careful game selection

    high · Listener email: hobby shifted from 'you can buy a machine and if you didn't like it, could sell it and maybe lose just a few hundred bucks' to 'now it's like buying a car of sorts'

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinball media community experiencing stalking and unwanted contact from fans; Jason and guests warning against parasocial behavior

    high · Kale stated: 'may or may not be dealing with something like that' regarding stalking; both Jason and Kale explicitly warned against being 'creepy' or 'weird' about media access

  • ?

    event_signal: Stern conducted factory tour/event with selective invitations to pinball media personalities and content creators

    high · Kale and Doc Monday attended Stern factory tour; Jason and guests discussed who received invites and relationship-based selection criteria

  • ?

    content_signal: Cross-promotion and guest collaboration discussions among pinball podcasters (Loser Kid reached out to Pinball Party about future content)

    medium · Jason reading message from Loser Kid: 'hello. Hey, guys. um i yeah we should we should do something sometime soon'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Community speculation about rumored pinball games including Metallica and Ghostbusters remake; Super Mario World mentioned as wishlist title

    low · Jason mentions 'rumors of upcoming Metallica and maybe a Ghostbusters remake'; Brian mentions 'all the other upcoming rumored games'

    • 3:26
    Before I go any further, though, can I say thank you again for letting me say this. We have a fantastic community member and he runs a place called North Star Pinball Collective in Savage, Minnesota. For those who know, I'm located in Wisconsin. Minnesota is a sibling of our state, and this area is very close, and the area I go when I need to play pinball machines, the newer stuff. So in Savage, Minnesota, you can find North Star Pinball Collective. They have 54 games ranging from the early 70s EMs to modern sterns and everything you'd want. They have it set up for $20 all you can play. They have tournaments every Sunday and every other Thursday, and you don't have to participate if you want to just come and play the games. They also have monthly special events, bigger tournaments quarterly, and you can find them on Facebook. It's called North Star Pinball Collective. They have a lot of games that you won't find at, like, well, I mean, Lit is great and Bad Penny, they're all great, but if you want to find some more rarities, I would highly recommend going to check out North Star Pinball Collective. big fan of the show great member of the community go check it out if you're in the area or you know like my distance one to two hours away go check out north star pinball collective in savage minnesota another friend of the show wrote in something um i guess i say this last time and then stern reaches out hey we're big fans of the show like okay well i mean you know again this is just uh Feedback from the listeners or about pinball. So, you know, talking about Stern support, which isn't great to put at PC all the time, or, you know, some of the things that the community sees as opportunities to improve the dog shit support. Okay, again, it's armchair quarterbacking. It is difficult what Stern does, of course, I mean, or JJP or Spooky. To say that a fan of pinball suddenly means I'm an expert or us as a community are expert in how they should do business, that's easy to say. Much tougher to do. So all of this is said with, and I assume from the listener, of we love the hobby. These are things we want to see improved just because we want it to keep going. And that's what it is. So please take it at that value. the same way people review or talk shit about sports teams and, oh, that fucking quarterback.
    6:01
    That's about as far as I can go because I don't watch sports and I don't like them. But so I know the term quarterback and football. So thank you. Or when you're reviewing a game, all those developers use these 3D assets. Why wouldn't they use the Unreal Engine, all this shit? So that being said, we don't know what the fuck we're talking about. But from afar, things that we would like to see is the vein of this message. I'll just say this message comes from Pickle.
    6:25
    Some very small items to fix that seem obvious. Get the damn accessories out the door day one, especially expression lights. Reduce the insane topper prices so topper people don't feel like they are getting raped twice. Yeah. Fix your fucking tech support so you actually have a ticketing system. They don't even create tickets. It's just email. From the outside, it feels like there is one shared computer with Outlook on it at Stern that all tech support emails go to die actually provide some real tech support. I agree with that, hence why I'm reading it. And yes, it's saying it like that or being, you know, light and somewhat humorous about it, but it's true. And here is a listener mail. This one is long, but I'm going to read it because, well, I actually like really long emails. I mean, you can write in and say, great job, great show. I appreciate it, you know, and whatever, but let's, here we go. So strap in, strap on. Hey, Jason, just wanted to reach out and say another great podcast and share some thoughts if you're bored. Well, I was bored when he sent this. So here we go. Don't want to come off as a creeper. That's a, that's a good start because guess what? No, don't want to come off as a creeper, but seems like we share similar behaviors in regards to pinball and some other things. What I mean is the one podcast you had where you mentioned that you get super focused on certain things if you are motivated while there are times where you just don't care i do that as well it's like i'm in my own world when i'm focused slash obsessed on something whether it's work looking for new pinball restoring etc and then sometimes i just could care less if i'm not in the mindset hope that makes sense just to confirm i'm not the only one it absolutely makes sense and he keeps going the other thing is in regards to pinball i got into the hobby of owning them back in 2015 with my grail funhouse oh good timing and thought that That would be it. Then three months later, we got a taxi, wife's favorite, and then I sold it and bought it back. Yeah, I know that drill. And, well, the rest is history. I kind of got out of buying and Pinside for a while, didn't play much, then got back in, got an MMR and Metallica Pro, then did the same thing for a few years. Then I went full in and overboard about two years ago with buying and selling and trying out a lot of machines, now keeping up with everything. I've tried other hobbies and just keep coming back to pinball as it involves a lot of things I like, tinkering, every game is different, electronics, mechanical programming, etc. I got in near the end where you could buy a machine and if you didn't like it, could sell it and maybe lose just a few hundred bucks. But now, OMG, the bubble sure has burst and now it's like buying a car of sorts. My area is very sparse and usually I have to travel five plus hours to play anything latest as well as there are hardly any for sale that aren't at least five plus hours away. So I end up buying new in box if I think the game is just based new in box. If I think I like the game just based on gameplay reviews, picks, rule sheets, etc. That wasn't a problem in the past, but now I really have to make sure all the check boxes are checked on a game theme, gameplay, etc. And it seems like anything I buy now has to be a keeper as it just can't afford, I think literally and figuratively to repeatedly lost so much unless it's a keeper, then I don't care. That's one of my main factors that allowed me to get into this hobby, the ability to sell them for not much loss. I don't ever spend what we don't have. So like you, I'm at a crossroads on whether I can or will continue this hobby in the terms of adding new machines to my collection as often I was just, I was or just be happy with what I got, but all machines eventually get old. I've even thought about, quote, is it worth it, quote, as I do sometimes stress out myself and tell myself that this hobby is fun. That sucks you didn't get invited to the, okay, let's not get into that. Thank you for writing in. And yeah, a lot of things there because it's so similar. One, the history of this hobby being you can get into it and it really captures all of your senses. A lot of us are into tech, whether it's mechanical engineering or software engineering or audio engineering or visual editing. Is it video engineering what is that what is that called i'm stupid it encompasses a lot and you're you're playing a game when you're playing it it keeps your attention because you have to be um you know dedicated to the ball and the physics of everything you have to do a lot of like little calculations in your head which keeps a lot of us who are let's say i don't mean to say this like adhd inclined or in that a lot of us are very intelligent and um yeah and with that can be a double-edged sword in a way and pinball keeps our attention the same way like racing a car does if you just have to pay attention so i empathize with a lot of that which is why pinball is such like a it's almost it's not an addiction but it's close and then you toss in a theme that you feel like one with or this theme i identify with it you toss that into it and holy shit you know you buy it and sell it you buy it and sell it because they get bored but then you get pulled back in because You want it and you need it and it can be nasty. And on the other point, the prices lately are going down so fast that it's like we don't know where the bottom is. And I almost hesitate to say that because myself, who doesn't want to stop the hobby, I don't want to keep spreading that like, hey, prices are going down. So let's get scared and have them keep going down and we're all fucked because I don't want them to. But at the same time, it's the reality. And I'm not the only one that sees it. a lot of people out there are seeing the same thing. And when it's that hard to sell Jaws, the newest, hottest game, without taking a severe loss, I hope it's just the summer slump that does happen every year, but this one smells different. But eventually it'll level off. It'll get to a point where everyone will buy a game at some price. Just don't know how low that really goes. And when he was talking about buying new games because you don't have to travel five plus hours, which I, again, empathize with completely. He's buying them off of reviews and if they look great and all that. So that, to me, is the most crucial thing, him buying games based on reviews and all that. Neutral reviews are so important, I should say, unbiased, without, I mean, you know, any sort of hidden intention. granted anyone who does media including myself there is some want for attention we're not going to lie it's i'm not i don't like the attention per se in a lot of ways but i also do like the notoriety for effort so it's this kind of strange thing that being said neutral reviews are so good for the hobby because let's say if everyone just says every game is great and someone like um well Well, Pinball Eddie from, yeah, from Pinside, who wrote in saying all this, buys games based on someone who said, oh, this game's great. And then he gets burned like, no, Led Zeppelin Pro is not great. Okay, I lost money. Next time you listen to the same reviewer. Yeah, it's all great. I bought it again. It got burned again. Well, then you're going to stop trusting said reviewer. I'm really not pointing anyone out. Just saying the general consensus of saying all pinball is great is not good for anyone. it burns hobbyists who buy them because then they don't trust reviews. Then they get resentful and then they slowly stop. They won't trust that the companies are. So if everyone says that the games are great, then the company is like, Oh, all the games are great. And then all the people on pin side who are negative, they're just negative Nancy's. It's no, there's a balancing act of if we just say that some games are bad, creators have to try to take it with a grain of salt as in it's not personal i've written some shitty fucking songs and um i have people i trust who are close to me who i can take it from who're like yo jason this song is just shit um it doesn't always feel good but after a while like okay you trust that like all right this person also equally says no is when they do that's a banger that is a fucking hit. That song is great. Okay, then I trust that as well. It means I'm actually, you start to align, I'm saying for myself or Stern or JJP, the reviews with trusted reviewers that over time you can just have faith in them. Then people will know. There's always ups and downs in games. There's always pros and cons to games. But when people can trust that,
    15:05
    you know what to do with your money or your time and you get more confident in the hobby. And it's still a fact, though, that this hobby is small enough and the people who make the games actually really want to. There's not many people that go to college to be, I'm going to be a pinball creator. And then they get into it and like, oh, it's just my nine to five job. Just go and work in a pinball. Maybe on the factory floor. Sure. But I mean, you know, a Ray Day or a Jack Danger or a Gomez or Gary Stern. They have to want to do it. So at the same time, I get that when someone says a game is bad, I mean, it's defeating, right? It doesn't feel great. It's like, well, you put in all this effort and you're not getting recognized for it. Yeah, it's the name of the game. It is what it is. And yeah. So thank you for writing in. Thank you for the long email. And thanks for an opportunity to pick apart a couple of those things. Oh, and then a quick shout out to Loser Kid who wrote in, said, hello. Hey, guys. um i yeah we should we should do something sometime soon i know we've communicated in the past just never lined up but um sometimes i forget to reply to some of the pinball party emails so i'm trying to just go through and anything i forgot say hello and uh yeah and another quick uh rumored games i was mentioning rumor games i don't know it could have been in 2022 but here we go uh this comes from a brian i agree with you about a mario theme being great i personally would prefer it to be Super Mario World for SNES over the original Mario Bros for NES. I would find the money for it if it included Yoshi, Star World, key exits, multiple exits for red dots level. Oh God, he's speaking my language. For those who know Super Mario World, you know what he's talking about. All the other upcoming rumored games don't really do it for me. I would strongly consider Ghostbusters, though, if it was announced this year. Great pod and try not to look at these as investments. They are just overpriced fun. That is how I justify when I selectively purchase one because I am not made of money either. Thank you, Brian. And yeah, no, I never look at them as investments. I think a few people did as LEs during COVID, but that was a small blip in the radar. But yeah, Super Mario, I think if they did a Super Mario game, it all depends on what Nintendo is doing with their license currently with Super Mario and what their aim is. For a while it was the new Super Mario Brothers, which was fine for a little bit, but then it just got played.
    17:32
    That pun, you know how that works. But yeah, I think if you did Super Mario Brothers All-Stars, but did the one with Super Mario World, but if you just called it Super Mario Brothers All-Stars and concentrated on the first three for NES and Super Mario World, take my money. Charge $13,000 for an LE. Put Star World in there, Expression Lights, holy shit. That thing would be an absolute killer. All right, got another one here. Oh, this one meant a lot.
    18:01
    Yeah, you know who you are. Hi, Jason. I'm just a pinhead that wanted to say thanks for your awesome work and podcast. I have young onset Parkinson's disease, and your show always keeps me laughing during my physical therapy. Keep it up, and thanks for being such an entertaining, positive voice in our hobby. Respectfully, and all my best. Yeah, thank you so much. And that means more than, yeah, anything. uh so i'm i'm i you know i guess apologize sorry yeah i don't know it sucks you're dealing with that i know i know i know of message i mean he knows that as well i mean i wish i i wish this podcast could do more than just entertain you i hope it could help you know i hope it helps heal at least figuratively in the head i'll do what i can um so you're welcome for using the fuck theme song today hopefully that that put a little um get up in your step all right so thank you for people that write it, that's not all of them. I just, I wanted to select a few because I've just been neglecting a lot of it. I try to respond to what I can, but such is life. All right. Another thing we talked about a couple months ago was some theme ideas, pinball theme ideas, you know, free for Jersey Jack or Spooky or Stern. You might remember such games as Drywall or, well, we did Penis for a while. That's more of like an actual, like we have rights to that. That's a game we're working on called Stern's Penis. But going to TJ Maxx with the wife was another one. You remember. So I have a couple other written down that I just wanted to pitch out there. You know, I know we have rumors of upcoming Metallica and maybe a Ghostbusters remake and all that kind of stuff, but I think these are bangers.
    19:40
    So just a quick four here. One, Dawn's Dish Soap. if any of you have tried other dish soap like oh let's try this organic green shit dawn's dish soap cuts through grime like you wouldn't believe and you would believe it because you all fucking use it and then you go back to it when you try something else but if you have a big blue pinball machine that big dawn's dish soap you know what people aren't going to think that machine has like covid germs all over it or like there's poop on it nah it's not going to survive on a Dawn's dish soap machine. I have no ideas for the actual gameplay other than like the theme is slippery, you know, or overkill for hand soap. That's probably a mode. Um, or like soak time. There's another mode. Anyway, you get it. Dawn's dish soap. It's fine. It's a fine idea. It's better than wick probably. All right. Another one, windows Vista. We all know, you know, one of the best operating systems of all time, Windows Vista.
    20:45
    So the game, well, this would have to be, all right, if we're being real, this game would probably have to be made by American Pinball or Spooky because it wouldn't always really work that great. So Stern, don't, Stern, if you want a Windows machine, Windows 3.1, 95, or Windows 10, stick to those. Windows 7, eh, sure, why not? Windows Vista, much cheaper of a license. Let's, yeah. Okay, another one. This theme is anxiously awaiting medical results. You know, you go in, the older we get, and you're like, oh, what's this itch, or what's that lump on my face, or why is my dick on the ground? Why do my balls fall off? You know, they check, and they do some tests, and then, you know, you're waiting for a couple days for, like, for me, Mayo, like, the portal, like, oh, my fucking God. I know I have cancer. Of course I have cancer. You know, all these, and you're just nervous as shit. And then you see the email notification, like new test results. Like, oh, my fucking God.
    21:46
    Oh, I've got to open this thing. I'm going to look at my blood levels. Oh, my God. And then you're fine. Oh, okay. I'm fine.
    21:57
    Or you're not. And that one doesn't feel great, the second one, as much. But, I mean, it's part of the game. It's kind of like that Jaws mode where, like, some of the shots give you points. Other ones take them away or like the Gollum multiball mode, you know. So it's got pros and cons to it, you know. So anxiously awaiting medical results. It's a pretty great pinball theme. And then one last one, pre-shit pants.
    22:23
    So you're going to inevitably shit your pants. I mean, a lot of you. These ones come pre-shit instead of, you know, pre-worn jeans or, you know, they're faded. they got the knees kind of ripped or you got the thumb holes in a hoodie these pants are already shit shat in um not real shit but they simulate shit so that like they're brown on the back and the kind of like slightly you know moist looking it's fake but and they fucking stink these pants smell terrible um so i mean that's the theme it's pre-shit pants it's corn pants there's ria pants there's solid pants there's the bristol stool there's a number four pant whatever you want Pre-shit pants. Maybe we'll partner with Levi's or, you know, whatever. Yeah, pre-shit pants. There's a four for you. Dawn's dish soap, Windows Vista, anxiously awaiting medical results, pre-shit pants. Those will sell better than Wick and Venom, probably.
    23:18
    Just a quick side note. I pissed in the bathroom sink yesterday. So have any of you done that? I've done it more than once. I do it probably once a year just to kind of feel alive, you know, because it's right there. And as long as you can manage your pressure in your stream, I mean, what are you harming? Why not? You pee in the toilet how many times a day? Let's say five times a day your whole life. That shit gets boring after a while. You've got such a large hole to aim for. It's really not a challenge. So a pinball party challenge and encouragement, pee in a sink. Do it in your bathroom. If you want to get risque, do it in the kitchen sink. Really, yeah, it's piss, but just turn on the faucet. Wash it down. I'm just saying I've done it more than once for a reason because you kind of feel like, yeah, I shouldn't be doing this. And it's a simple little rebellious thing you can do at home. It's not really causing any harm. You're not going to get cancer from it. You know, you're not going to get fired. Yeah, piss in the sink. Let me know what you think. Oh, that rhymed. If I've, full disclosure, I've never shit in the sink. And I never will. I've thought of it. Not that like I might, but I'm like, will this translate?
    24:47
    So if you want, please, if you do, please just email into pinballpartypodcast at gmail.com. Just say I did it. You don't have to say anything else. If you want to, go for it. But just those three words, I did it, and I will be severely proud of you, and I think you'll be proud of yourself. You do it once, you open up kind of a whole new world. And if there was one pinball company that I think would pee in the sink because they keep things real, they're adventurous, they know what people want, this doesn't work well, and I apologize for the transition. However, if anyone is out there wondering where to buy your pinball machines, Yes, you could go to crappy dealers. Yes, you could pay overpriced. Yes, you could pay for shipping. Yes, you could give a company that gives you bad customer service your money. You could do that. Or you could buy from Flippin' Out Pinball. Ah, yeah.
    25:45
    Oh, yeah. When I buy my pinball shit, I buy from Flippin' Out. From Topper's Art Blade Premiums. I've got it figured out. Flippin Out And no joke Not a lot of pinball distributors have like on customer support and service that supplant some of the lesser I say abilities of maybe some of the manufacturers But really, truly, Zach, Greg, Nicole, Zach's dog, Zach's uncle, Zach's grandpa, Zach's great-grandpa, Zach's cousins, Zach's great-aunt, Zach's great-uncle. I believe he adopted six people just to work at Flippin' Up Pinball. The point is their company keeps growing. They're doing great because they have great customer service, fair prices, and free shipping, amongst other things such as trading in your pinball machines, buying used machines at dirt cheap prices, and you can save on shipping and all that kind of stuff. Toppers, Artblades, premiums, they've got it figured out. Okay, I've been talking a lot, looking at this screen. I'm going to go nuts. So let me invite a couple old timers back to the show. And for the Patreon members, you can see this section in video. I put a link out there. We might do some more video in the future. Maybe not. But really, we just wanted to see each other's beautiful faces. So we hit record as well and then just tossed it up on Patreon for those. So all this audio, free to everyone. But video, go check it on Patreon.com and other deep dives. those are a blast go check out patreon.com slash pinball party and if not that's okay just keep listening and enjoy the show on the 12th day of fall pinball day to me dog month days and much pinball party official correspondent Carol Hernandez what's up brah fuck fuck fuck fuck that'd be a good uh dm a new website reddickpicks.com exactly yep kale yeah headphones are off good can't even hear me all right i think maybe we'll save the video because i'm doing this kind of in i have a whole 25 minutes of podcast before this starts so maybe i'll just save this for the patreon give them something juicy and then we can go yes so welcome back you sons of bitches to round two or three of the boys are back in town or something. Kale and Doc Monday. Hi. What's up? Good to be back. Yeah. From the Windy City. Just blew in. Yeah. Your mom's tired.
    28:29
    I wasn't there. I don't know if you're aware. We looked for you. We looked for you and Albert. I wasn't looking. I was like hiding from Albert. I was afraid he was going to come. I jumped in an LE box. I got to say, though, at least you went hard. 12 out of 10.
    28:53
    No, for sure. Orbital Albert, if you're listening, we do love you. That's a little far. I'm never going to give you my home address ever because you scared me. Him and Kerry Hardy were not... I need to keep at arms like because now I'm a little bit afraid but yeah I mean kudos to you for one will shoot you the other one will just yell at you a lot in your face at the same time yeah exactly so that's interesting I've also had a recent like pinball like hey um don't come to my house but luckily for me he'll memorize my face though so I don't have to worry about him finding my oh my god well and I just want to say this in all seriousness like before we get really started like yeah you know you said you talked to stern like dude there was no reason why some people got picked and other people didn't really i mean like i think over no but overwhelmingly i think it was like we had relationships with stern on some level like kale has been you know at oh yeah no i worked at marco had all those things i'm like i'm friends with a lot of those guys and i think that's why i got an invite but it wasn't it's not because of reach or anything orbital albert did or didn't do um i I don't think you have to like, like I have been on the other side of that, like in music stuff, you know, where it's like you kind of feel like you're like, what the hell? What did I do? And I just think that's not what this was. And ideally, like they will do this in the future. And I think invite different people or like additional people. And yeah, so I did want to say that right off the bat, because I felt for the people who wanted to go that didn't get to go for sure. yeah and i mean not to beat that to death i thought you were gonna say it's like on a more serious note uh don't stalk people um so to those who uh are creepers into yeah into uh pinball media stuff don't be weird and like do i i don't want to go into it because uh yeah may or may not be dealing with something like that and that's absolutely and like it's cool that pinball media is so accessible to people but like don't like be weird about it it's like yeah you can you can you can find us but like just yeah friends with us and that's and that's cool like we we want that we like interaction but like just yeah keep it you know what's check what's pretty weird is when you're talking to the police and they're like a pinball podcast like yeah this is weird for me to like oh okay um and this person found you yeah okay pinball oh what's that like you talking like the old like yeah man they think you're talking about ping pong at first and you're like no pinball no idiot yeah yeah well hey guys yeah welcome back from the stern factory tour and welcome back to the pinball party podcast i know you two have been on you're the two most you know popular guests on this show. You've been, Ian, you've been here in my house, roughly, I think, or over here, and up there in a couple of episodes. Cale, you haven't. You're there.
    32:06
    With those bats in the back. You know, before we get to the Stern thing, you and I, you two and I, have done what we value most in the top 50 games we've gone through. Maybe we'll finish that. I guess we have to do that around Thanksgiving. In a few months, we'll keep going down that list, which would be harder and harder. That's what she said. But it's kind of cool that there's the three of us here who all represent the three main parts of the pinball hobby where outside of what we do in the media of Doc being a very mainly on-location player first. He goes and plays and does all the stuff. I'm like a home buyer and trader and seller and do all that hobbyist shit. Kale runs the Electric Bat Arcade, which is one of the most successful arcades out there. So we all have a very different – and Rachel. She's not here. She's there. I think she's on the couch. She's doing yoga right now. Is she really? Yeah. Good for her. Yeah. Man. Can she breathe through her nose? Very well. Yeah, but I'm going to bring up our issues with breathing. Should we talk medical issues in a little bit? Okay.
    33:14
    We all have these interesting – or these main points in pinball. And so I wanted to ask because I get a lot of feedback from people, and you guys are probably doing different reasons. People will tell me how to think about pinball.
    33:28
    They'll say in the email or comment, which I had to delete one on YouTube recently, yeah, whoever you are that listens and wants to say stuff like that on YouTube, geez, man, get a life. I saved that one for one of the most horrible things anyone's ever said, so thanks about that. But they'll say these things like, hey, man, you should think about it this way. Stop thinking about it so much. Oh, okay. So I want to know each from your perspective. I'll start with Ian. What is your favorite aspect of pinball? And I don't want to give any more nudge in that direction because just your perspective. What's your favorite thing about pinball? What gets you hard the most when you're thinking about doing your location playing or what's your like?
    34:12
    Yeah. Well, I mean, I think I've said this before, and it's tied a lot to, I guess, my quote-unquote origin story in pinball. But what I like the most is getting lost in a game. And usually for me, what that means is not necessarily like mechs or anything like that. It's actual gameplay. I think about right now my favorite game to play is Jaws Pro. If you are looking, when I initially saw Jaws Pro, I was like, there's nothing in this game. it kind of felt a little bit like Led Zeppelin-y to me. And then when the game teaches you how to play it, I actually just told this to Elwin. I was like, dude, your game is great because it teaches you how to play it. And then once you do, it's like this totally new pinball experience that you've never had before. Yeah, the balls going everywhere where they shouldn't. Yeah. The air balls. No, not that. No, not air balls. The whole new experience. no i just mean like it kind of the rule sets and those things are interesting to me but i think what i get lost in is ball control like i really want to right accepting the ball and having it flow and those kind of things i don't think about stuff deeper than that really like i just really want to listen to tunes and zone out to me it's the same to me it's the same thing as when i was shooting free throws or just shooting jump shots pretending i was michael jordan as a kid in the driveway, like shooting fadeaways, not doing anything that's going to actually help me. It's just like you're doing a fun thing to do it. So I do understand the impulse of people who are messaging you like, hey, this isn't so serious or whatever, because I feel like I've even maybe said a not as dickish version of that to you. But I also know like, look, I have a very unique experience because I'm a single man with a car who doesn't really have real responsibilities in a lot of ways like you do. So it's like, I can actually travel a little bit more and those kinds of things. And I actually enjoy that part of it. I enjoy going out, finding a new spot, like, especially if it's really vibey, like it has a cool thing. And I'm going to talk to some weird people that that's just part of my personality. So I don't even know if that totally answers your question it's sort of pinball tangential but to me like on location play that's a strength of it is like you're actually going to meet people and sort of have some awkward or weird conversations but i just i enjoy that as well so yeah so kind of setting up the second question what is the most stressful part for you in the hobby thinking about money um like if i want to buy a game uh I just know that it's not going to happen without like major, major life decisions that are like potentially earth shaking. Like for me playing John Wick, I really do like it. Like I don't care if someone's going to say I'm a shill or whatever. It was a super fun experience for me. And I just know like I have to lobby hard to get reboot to buy one because I'm not going to buy one. I just can't like, dude, you know this. Like I economically right now, I've never been further from a chance to buy those games. And so that's something that does still stress me out. I think on your 12 days of balls, like I said that pinball is too damn expensive. That was my big gripe. And it it holds true today. I understand why it is. But also, that's the biggest stressor.
    37:48
    Cale, how about you? What's your favorite thing as an operator in pinball? And I know you're more than that. You're a hobbyist and you play tournaments and all that. But just trying to that perspective. What's your favorite? Yeah. And this is my message has been the same. It's it's the people it's I just and I know some people might be going, oh, yeah, it's an operator. Of course, it's the people, you know, everybody that walks through the doors, a twenty dollar bill has nothing to do with that. I just I like hanging out with folks like like right now. I have a I have a tournament coming up and, you know, a couple of hours at the bat. I'm just excited about seeing all these folks and talking about what we did in Chicago. I'm not even thinking about, oh, I get to get back on John Wick. I get to play – we just got to play Bally Playboy. I'm not thinking about playing all of those. I'm just connecting with these people, and it's no fault on your own. You just – you don't get to experience this because you don't have this giant community. We're very lucky in the Valley here in Arizona.
    38:56
    But, yeah, it's 100% of the people hanging out with these people, having fun, talking, looking people, you know, just eye to eye, you know, not on social media and connecting with this one thing that we're like super into. And then, you know, getting together and competing, you know, getting into like hardcore competition and, you know, and laughing and the camaraderie. That's the best part for me. What's the worst part or the most stressful?
    39:27
    Just running a business, budgeting, you know, concerned about our, you know, what is the next game? Is this one we have to get or is this a – hopefully, fingers crossed, it's a vault or remaster of a game we already have so we can save a little money and spend money on the next one?
    39:52
    Just the stresses of running a business is the most difficult part for us. and not that like the focus on the negative the reason i ask is is when people will it's just the media stuff that you and all three of us deal with because you run nudge magazine and you do the electric bat and you're kind of public figures in this of that sometimes people get lost in the negative side of it when they hear things i'll say from me of where they're like stop thinking of an investment stop thinking about that's going to lose you money but i mean if you're listening what Ian also said and what Cale said. The money is a huge part of it. The running a business, the business needs money. To enjoy the hobby, it's the money. So a lot of times, the frustration comes because if I was to ask the same thing about video games, the money thing doesn't come up. You can do this all the time, everywhere. It's finding that balance of the enjoyment and the money and doing, is it still worth it to run Nudge Magazine? Is it still worth it to run Electric Bat? Is it still worth it to do pinball party and do all this stuff. There's a lot more, I think, than some people give all three of us, to toot my own horn or to you, a lot more than people give credit to. So when there is times where, like, myself may vent publicly or you might sense some anger in some of Nudge's posts, that's just real humans dealing with a hobby that have a huge passion of it. And, like, passion comes positives and negatives. And I don't think that people should always run away from the negative side And really like last time when I was recording, it was more just exercise in that of like I'm not to throw Albert under the bus. I'm not coming out here to try to destroy everything. But it's interesting to hear both of your perspective on the more negative side of it to be. Yeah, and I think like people listen to some podcasts and hear – they feel your pain. They feel – they listen to Gennada. They listen to some – Albert. and you know the first thing that comes to mind for a lot of people is if if you don't enjoy this why are you still doing this and the whole the whole pinball thing right it's supposed to be fun but you uh shed light on on a different perspective of it if you want something that's super positive all the time go listen to don right you know if you know if you want to hear what struggles not just you other people are dealing with you know come check it out yeah yeah and if you want to hear how to not barf when you're doing edward 40 hands as you're playing pinball then you come to nudge like it's all a different perspective so and if you want to see like really weird dick pics you go to redickpic.com tm that's is this like when nbc mentions a website and then they have to buy the domain like now you're going to have to buy redickpic.com it's got to be and it's It's not what you think, y'all. It's just really good pictures. Ridiculous pictures. Ridicpic.com. I was on a different page. I thought it was like ridiculous pictures of dicks. Oh, yeah. I mean like you mean they're like they're wearing a sombrero and have like a mustache and stuff. Yes, sir. On their dick. You dress them up. Yeah, cool. Yeah. Okay. I know Rachel is a big fan of it because she draws good dick. All right. She draws good dick is what I'm saying. She does. The best one. probably the best so y'alls were at stern the factory as part of oh what what are the names and i feel partially bad maybe you know doing what i did and then albert we've come up with all these names like the shill gate or what was it just shill circus the shill crew um it's it's not that it's it's i i called it the sternfluencer event i don't know if that's like That's kind of a good mix between – and I'm saying that tongue-in-cheek because who the hell – there were a couple of legit influencers there. I was not one of them.
    43:51
    So – I would – Yeah. Don't sell yourself short on either of you. They called it media day, I think. Yeah. It was like Stern Media Day. That's an official – Can I – you correct me if I'm wrong, but let me just put my place in your shoes and guess what happened. And you show up, you know, hey, welcome. Here's a high five. Here's a beer or whatever. And you walk in and the music celebrate, you know, lights and discos going to the left. It's like when all the Microsoft CEOs are like dancing together. You walk in under this bridge. Everyone's like, yeah, fuck yeah, Jack Danger and Keith Owen high five and giving you some money. To the left, you see a Lord of the Rings vault edition. to the right. You see a Tron LE with all these new lights. You see the new Metallica 2.0 right behind it. You see, well, you got Pokemon. You see X-Men. You see maybe Harry Potter and the Matrix from JJP just stopping by to say hello. Ken Cromwell from JJP is there. Spooky is there with Texas, or not Texas Chainsaw. The ghost of Python Angelo was there. Yeah, it was crazy. David Pitch wasn't there. Gary Potter and Champagne made a toast to the Haves and the Havemores.
    45:03
    Right, right. Yep, Kaneda was there. And you go in, everyone just hugs, maybe kisses a little bit, gets a little weird, and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. You draw some boundaries, you have some fun, and then you play John Wick, and then you go home. Is that roughly?
    45:21
    It was funny. You're not far off, I guess. Yeah, it was pretty much exactly like that. No, I mean, we got there. there was like a bunch of people kind of already trickling in around 1230 or one. And, you know, you get let into the basically they kind of did do a little bit of a I said, this is sort of a Willy Wonka moment to kale because out walks Gary Stern, Seth and George Gomez. And my favorite part when I'm taking pictures is I just realize I'm like, Gary Stern is wearing the exact same outfit as his cutout down to like the loafer the black loafer shoes zombie yeti drawing yeah yeah like literally the exact same thing so i was a little bit distracted by that but they just kind of came out and were like hey we're really glad you're all here and blah blah blah blah blah and then they kind of like let us in and we can kind of break down even like a little bit by bit there were sort of like three or four kind of activities that we did uh while we were there um after that but it was mostly just like a meet and greet and everyone was kind of excited to see who was going to be there we didn't know um like i had asked i i had asked some people if they were going to go but you know you ask one or two people and if they're not going to go then you're like i don't want to ask anyone else so uh yeah yeah it was like it was like that we talked about how it's like the beginning of one of those movies where they pull together this team and you don't know who you are until you like actually arrive at the mission location. Nice. And then right off the bat to dispel rumors, you know, you see on pin side and Facebook, we didn't sign any NDAs. Oh, get wrecked. Yeah. Anything, anything we saw or heard, we were free to talk about. There were, there were parts where we couldn't take any photo or video, but yeah, there was, everything was really open. It was, it was basically like, and George Gomez said this, he's like, I'm inviting you into my house. Um, so just like try to be respectful. And if we ask you not to share something, then like, please don't share it. And like, to me, like, I really, I really respect George Gomez. Like I did before this trip. And I really do afterwards after getting a chance to talk to him a little bit. Um, just in terms of, he's a very, like, say what you will about whatever your perception is about the direction of Stern. all that. I know all people feel different kinds of ways, but dude, like that's a man who literally just wants to make cool stuff for people to play with, like has his whole life. I literally, I got to corner him for a second, um, at Logan. And I was like, bro, why did you pick toys to make? Like of all the things you're so smart. I'm like, and he didn't, he's like, I don't know. I've just always liked them. I'm like, you could be a billionaire, like making missiles for Raytheon and you picked pinball machines. I think that's actually kind of dope that like someone who's, you know, sort of a Michelangelo, like dude, him doing the sculpt of the car on John Wick and like doing it all himself. And I think it's like not even John Wick's exact car because there was like licensing issues with that. He designs his own car for this dude. He's the chief creative officer. He doesn't need to be bothering with that. He's doing it cause he loves it and it's a passion. So like I did want to act like that spoke to me and I it worked better than an NDA. An NDA, I would have like kind of been like bristling against it when someone's like, we trust you. Like, please don't screw us. Like, here's my neck. Please don't cut it. You know, like, yeah, I actually really, really appreciated that part of this trip. That's risky. I've I've done that and got cut. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. okay when when when did someone please tell me when did uh whether it's you or or don or erica i know she was there um ask the questions that people want to know like hey is is tron vault coming did people ask those questions no nobody did stuff like that during our meeting in the conference room um there was one person joked like when when they showed us some information oh is this for blah blah blah some rumored game and everybody kind of laughed but there was nobody no it was everybody was extremely respectful on the same page as far as that goes but i mean yeah there were questions that were asked i think that no one was like because dude like if you're like hey what's the next game on the line like of course right you just know they're not gonna say that so i think usually the kind of information that you're gleaning is like hey whatever they're going to give us, they're going to give us. And I'm trying to like read between the lines and just, for me, I have a little bit different perspective on this. Cause like I told you, like, I am a people person, like to me, the pinball part of it, I don't care as much about what new game's going to come out because it, well, we talked about this. I'm not a, I'm an, I'm a location player. So it almost is sort of incidental. Like I'm going to play it one way or the other. I'm not going to buy it. Um, so I was more interested in like, Hey, let's talk to Jack Danger, let's talk to Kyle Spiteri Those guys that are my friends And just get the kind of Taste, or seeing Brian Eddy And catching up with him And doing interviews like that I talk to, oh shoot, Cale, what's his name? The man who does the wire harnesses Oh, Jim We're going to run an article with Jim Because I was like, this guy's been around since the Alvin G days Doing the nervous systems Of pinball machines Like I was actually interested in hearing that and like sort of the differences between doing wiring harnesses in 1981 or three or whatever versus doing them in 2024. Yeah. Jim Sheard's been around forever. And a lot of people just don't know who he is. He's the guy behind the scenes that really works on the the nervous system of the game since forever. You can see his credits on old school Data East stuff and all kinds of stuff. But to answer your question, I think people like Jason Knapp were looking around. There were times – so we went on a full factory tour. The craziest – they opened up everything. We saw everything being assembled, really cool stuff. There was literally two rooms that we weren't allowed to go in because they're literally working on new games. Yeah But and so you know Jason Knapp standing on his fucking tiptoes like trying to peep inside what boxes behind this box and I just like yeah but so so he doing his due diligence for sure Like I would say I would say that the guy but he not like at also it was really funny Actually, this is some good, like hot goss. I know that people were a little bit like Jason Naps, Haugen, Gary Stern and like at Logan Arcade. Dude, these guys hung out with us from morning till night. Gary Stern was at Logan Arcade when I left. He like was like, see you later. And then like went back into party, which is mind blowing to me. But like people were like, Jason Knapp has kind of had George Gomez, Gary and Seth all kind of together in this little like power, you know, power quartet. And we're like, God, what are they talking about? Like, I would love to know. So I know that some of us like, you know, quote unquote, influencers were were jealous of that access that Jason Knapp got. what was uh kale what was i know kale i mean you've been in marco you have buddies at stern you've been around longer than ian and i in this whole biz what was your favorite thing this trip to see or i know people is your thing but what what was your favorite piece of this trip um man it's hard to say it was it was sort of this baseline of excitement that just never ended I haven't seen this new factory. That was amazing. As soon as we got on the factory floor, man, it was kind of emotional.
    53:25
    This is our livelihood. For me and Rachel, this is where the excitement comes from. This is where the sausage is made. But one thing that I didn't expect to be so cool was just hanging out with the other podcasters. and I know that sounds funny but like no it doesn't you'd think the most exciting thing was hanging out with Gary Stern but like connecting with these other podcasters Rachel and I had never met Loser Kid as many conventions as we'd gone to we finally got to hang out with them and that was pretty cool so we could all get our message right so no I'm just kidding about that part But they made us all take our clothes off and hold hands. Oh, that's a pinball party party. Yeah. Connecting with these people like Jason Knapp. We message each other a lot, but we finally got to like actually hang out and, you know, have some face. That was the best. I even made that comment when we were there that I told some of the guys at Stern. And I'm like, I don't know if this is doing anything for you, but I do appreciate that this is kind of like forming a sense of community with like the media that's there. Like, I definitely felt more connected. Like, I've had interactions with Jason Knapp before, but yeah, I've never I'd never met him. And it was like a really fun hang. Right. He doesn't he doesn't like weed, which was like a that was a huge point of contention between me and him. He's like, he's like, oh, Ian over there is going to pass out from his vape pen. And I was like, bitch, I do this nine times a day. Like, don't worry about it. I'm good. So that was really funny. But I think, yeah, like getting to know people and like kind of the person behind the media part was awesome for sure. One other thing that was like really cool I think people would like to hear about. So like Ian was saying, they took us everywhere. There's one room, the product development room. It has no windows. it's soundproofed of course we didn't go in there that's where the new games are um and then we didn't go to the offices uh you know seth and and gary's office but they they took us into one place that surprised some of the employees where they it's like the machine shop where they they do yeah cool and um that that was that was amazing especially for rachel and i because you know everybody's walking through there and rachel and i noticed wait these are two mechs we've never seen before and word so we start like hovering over it and like looking because there are cad drawings underneath them and we're looking for any clues and uh and then jack runs over to the table and makes sure there's you know you know we did see a code name but you know we you couldn't tell what they are but just because rachel and i are under the hood of these machines we knew that these were parts that you know these are new parts and so that you know these it was kind of cool to see And to see the crazy technology that's in that room. They just have this giant laser cutter, like all these crazy things. And it's funny. While Kale's doing that and doing like Kale plays kind of a doofus, but he's not. But I actually am because while they're doing that, I'm running over to take a picture of the microwave wall. Like, that's what I was psyched about. I'm like, look at all these microwaves. That's amazing. So, yeah. But, yeah, that room was sick for sure.
    56:54
    All right. So you guys are there for they fly in kind of just a day. Right. And was it, aside from the tour, it was pretty John Wick focused? Just, hey, get a chance to play it all? What did you guys... It wasn't really John Wick focused. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was, bitch. Did you think so?
    57:11
    I mean, they showed us everything. They showed us... It was both. It was, like, I think they were responding to the overall narrative right now. To be real, dude, this was like a transparency thing for them. I think they wanted to come off as authentic and not aloof because I think that has been right. I mean, you've maybe felt that way. I felt that way on occasion where I'm like, these guys are awesome, but they're kind of like the Yankees. Like they are real straight laced. They're not going to comment either way. What the the part that wasn't about John Wick was about this is what our production schedule is like. This is why licensing like these are why pinball machines cost a lot of money. This is what we have to deal with with licensors. Those kind of big topics, they weren't afraid to talk about and address because they wanted us to see their people. They're not just a big corporation. It's funny because a big corporation, I think we get the idea that Stern is like Nike or something. They're not. Like they do have 500 employees, I think they said, and then they indirectly employ, you know, a couple thousand, which is basically I'm I think in their estimation of that, they're probably talking about like suppliers and things like I don't I didn't understand that part of it as much. But like 500 people like, dude, you've Jason, you've worked at companies that are bigger than 500 people and it's not like you're Nike, you know, like. Uh, so I think a big part of it was just understanding, even though they're the biggest in pinball that they're really not trying to, they're not trying to separate. They, they have learned, I think, dude, this was a learning experience for them that if people feel whether they are doing it or not, if people feel like the, the back has been turned to them, whether it's distributors or the media or consumers, um, that that's a big problem. And I think – yeah, to stop, which I'm glad to hear, if you just take off the beating around the bush of pinball market is going down on the used side,
    59:22
    Kerry Hardy being angry about the gun gate, that's not – whatever, that's his thing. Me saying, oh, I didn't get invited. Woe is me.
    59:30
    Orby, same thing. You see – and I'm telling you from someone who is on pin side all the time. It's just kind of what I do. and people, Zach, who I do the deep dives with, all of this stuff, I don't want Stern to think that, like, oh, this is just a John Wick reaction. No, no, no, it's everything kind of at once, and John Wick just happens to be somewhat of the catalyst of, it is very tough to be doing pinball right now, and probably for them as well, of, like, prices, it just can't maintain for, like, a secondary market, or, I mean, as great as electric bat is, there's not a ton of electric bats. Even if Ian and I were like, we're very passionate pinball people, and you're doing some work with the local arcade place, and I've looked at some of your business stuff, and thinking, people are like, why don't you just do it yourself? Like, bro. We don't have the capital, yeah. Well, even if we did, our sister Minneapolis and St. Paul, there's a couple great places, and they have tons of populations. Even for them, they're not raising a family on this money. It's so hard. so there's like all these frustrations that like lead to like John Wick or these things that just kind of let it out maybe some of mine was was the same thing of it's tough out there so that was the hardest part for me man because to be honest I think John Wick is a cool game like I'm not sweet I'm not a shill like and it's it plays fun as fuck like dude Kale we went back like that that night after the uh our like we went to logan and then someone had a flimsy excuse we get back to the we they there's a bus that buses us back to stern because our hotel is literally across the street and someone's like oh i left my stuff in stern and so we all go in there and play pinball for another like two hours uh just like the whole crew and we had roper with us and Yeah, yeah. No, it was allowed, but it was just like, man, I loved playing Wick. We were just vibing on it for fun, and we had been playing it for a while that day. I was even playing the ones that they had at Logan. And so it was just such a bummer to me that like, like I put myself in Elliot's place where if this was my first game and I knocked it out of the park and it seems really cool, but the discourse is sort of like exactly what you said, Jason. Like it's, I don't think it's WIC specific. It's almost, it's almost bigger than pinball because I think people are crunched. People are losing their jobs. They, I don't know. McDonald's is expensive. I mean, yes. Well, and I'm out of, I'm out of work right now. You and I have both gotten laid off within the last three months. Exactly. Like, and that, and that is, uh, the margins are smaller than they've ever been. The market is contracting and pinball. And so I think their understanding of what they have to do and how they have to engage with the community, just going forward, like it's, they're going to have to integrate. I think they want to find bigger markets, which was part of the whole weird YouTuber fiasco, but also they are understanding, like, these are the people and we got to grow it organically this way because it's it we don't know what the future holds but it it looks kind of scary at least for the next couple years so stern knows what's going on with the economy but that's something they cannot control and what they're what they're trying to uh you know for lack of a better word control or educate people on is the the constraints with with licensing because you know kerry hardy's message it it does hurt sales i mean waving a gun around quoting hitler uh appealing to his right wing base it it hurts sales yeah i'm talking to distributors who are like you know le buyers are calling and making fun of it oh you know no guns but you know woke this and that and and that is just they just wanted to say that that this is not at all what's going on you know if if we wanted to work with this movie title there were certain things we we had to do to get this very cool pinball machine to you yeah and my my thing with that with the licensing and all that was the hardest part for me i get it like i get that there are sort of like hot button issues for people and that's like I mean, AI is that for me, right? Kale, you know that. Like you post some AI stuff and I'm such a pathological asshole that I like every single time will have to comment on it. So I understand that impulse, but it was really good to hear is like – because people will be like, well, then just don't do that license. It's like I just don't like to compare a game to what's in your head. Like the whole Jaws doesn't eat – Shark doesn't eat the ball thing. It's like you're actually – that's dumb. That's dumb when you – hold on. It's dumb when you do that with movies. It's dumb when you do that with music where you have a preconceived notion in your head. You're like, this isn't matching that because I want to be able to just react to what I'm actually seeing, what I'm actually playing. And so I get the gun thing, but to me it took the focus almost immediately off what is a very fun playing game with some interesting code already like this early and made it about something that was like, oh, this is just what's not there.
    64:57
    It was tough. So, yeah. And for the people who are thinking like, oh, just drop it. Don't do don't do that game. It's a licensor won't let you do what you want.
    65:09
    Gomez, we all went to a conference room and he gave us just a master class on licensing, really pulled back the veil. And like all and like all classes, I fell asleep about an hour and a half in. But other than that, yeah. And there are difficulties that people don't realize. For example, so, you know, Jody or whoever lands a license and then like we're going to do this. Oh, very cool. You're working a year on this project. And then the the licensed team with the other side changes. Yeah. And all of a sudden it's like they have new rules. Now you're already, you know, six months, a year into this project. And people are like, well, just drop it. You've spent, I don't know, a couple million dollars, a million dollars, and then people are like, well, if they won't let you do what you want to do, just drop it and move on to the next one. I mean that's not how you survive. No, and when they've had to do that, it was sort of a monumental thing. So, yeah, it's like a big decision to do that. So, sorry. I don't understand the Ian when you're talking about the Jaws eating the ball of like there's this historical like people or I almost take it as I think as intended a lot of times like it's kind of joking like oh it doesn't eat the ball yeah okay or like the license you know the Jurassic Park oh it doesn't have enough assets on the plate that one was the worst one to me like that one is like a more like that felt pretty rough yeah cause right like Dennis Nedry as the star of Jurassic Park Sure, but I think the WIC controversy was a much more just like this anger-inducing like, fuck it all. It's fucking horrible. We're like, whoa, not just like, oh, the licenses doesn't quite get it right. Yes. And I get the like notion of I expected this, so I get it. And I know that people like you said, like, well, just review what you are getting out, what you expected. Like the Obi-Wan Kenobi show, I want it to be like this. And it's disappointing because of what's her name? It got stabbed in the gut 50 times and stayed alive. Yes. however when companies are monetizing off of licenses licenses come with it in expectation people aren't buying back to the future because they're like i've heard of back to the future i can't wait to buy it it's like i there's a lot of things i like about back to the future like the delorean i like these things so they're looking to make money based on that if you don't deliver on that then there's there's a there's a there's some common ground to get like not that upset well subjectively who i can't speak a hundred a hundred percent but i do but i do think that stern is was like kind of frustrated because they're like we're actually giving this to you like if you watch like dude we played the le with tim right there and they're doing this new thing in the code super cool where so you know they have the lit uh speakers and there's they have like basically a strobe effect in them that is paired with the video and the shaker motor where they're doing like like anytime he shoots a gun on screen it's like giving you like like he points it at the screen like this like patreon you motherfuckers are seeing me right now like he's like this and then it's like like that like right in your face it's like that is so sick it was actually too much guns for me like when i was playing it i'm like and you hear the sound package and it's like silencers and shotties and like all this stuff so i think for them they're just like dude we get it we get what you want and we're gonna give it to you the best way that we can and and like i think that's why they're kind of frustrated about it because they're just like dude we get it we like like right all the guys on like adding they're not adding this stuff because of the controversy this was always going to be in it totally yeah and and and it is cool because you're like oh sick like i kind of start to see dude pinball isn't just art right and it's not just music and it's not just whatever it's like how all these things work in concert so i think it's a little bit in bad faith when you sort of like single out one thing so much in our oh yeah i don't have this one thing you know right i'm 100 go ahead what people need to think about is you know this happened then now you have jack jack's i mean all the designers are working on a machine but let's just say jack you have jack working on a machine now he's stressed out you know what he's like you know what not only is it hard to build a pinball machine but now he's thinking about you know what asshole on some podcast is gonna like talk shit about this part and how you know how well weak i think weak-minded and there is a difference and i'm gonna just say this again about Jaws where the Wick thing or the licensing thing, a horse apiece, whatever, to each their own on the licensing. I think John Wick actually looks pretty badass. I think when there's a difference where I've spent my own $10,000 on a game, $10,000 US dollars, I'm saying Jaws again, where I've played it and it actually is broken, and when I communicate with Stern's customer support who will not help, that is a valid criticism and i don't like it when people push back oh no you should say that's all great it's not that's ten thousand dollars that's totally yes dude like yeah so i don't want to get those confused of like oh i don't see a gun right all that versus like i've spent all this money i think they they want to they want they're open to that too i think there's kind of a misconception that's like i don't i don't want you to stop doing that that's kind of when i heard you talk about, you were kind of like ruminating on the one on the podcast when you're like, it's a bummer that I wasn't invited to this. And you're sort of like, imagining reasons why I never want you to stop kind of doing that stuff. And I don't think Stern does either. Because like, good companies are open to criticism, like constructive criticism, right? And that's something where it's like, I think they can work on that. I think when it's frustrating to them as things where, like I said, bad faith arguments, and you're absolutely right, No company is perfect, but specifically with Stern, there are things that they can do and they're going to have to do. If they want to be the worldwide superpower that they want to be, they kind of have to figure some of that stuff out. I want to give credit to Cale and Rachel for my – maybe he knows where I'm going with this. I bought a previous game from Stern from the same designer. I love Jurassic Park. I got Jurassic Park literally right in this corner, got home. I could not hit the main shot in the game for the life of me. And I was very frustrated. And I was texting Cale and Rachel of like, I can't hit the T-Rex shot. Like it kept hopping over everything. It kept hopping everything. And they're like, I emailed Stern. They didn't. I'm not trying to bash. This is just a real world example of where like how good customer service will help you. and I think it's important to get whatever licensing for software you need to get support better. Cale and Rachel were the ones that solved that problem for me, even partners of Stern of where I had an open ticket and I was even sharing it with Cale and Rachel. This isn't getting me like, yeah, don't do that. Do this, do this. They were walking me through via text after I was taking videos. I sent five videos to Stern, sent one video to Rachel at Electric Bat Arcade in Tempe, Arizona. They fixed it for me. Oh, thanks a lot. Now we're going to get a bunch of emails. Yeah, so if you need support – no, but I mean it speaks to like if that does not help. You fix the GI on my torpedo alley. You can't control the market. Of course you can't. I mean the only thing you can control is like whatever bill of materials or price of the games. But you can control like the support of like if I'm already stretched thin to get this and you're not supporting, like that is a recipe for disaster. And as someone who's even – myself who does this so much, I have even more reason to buy. I mean, think of the ones that don't, that are just like, well, I can't do this anymore. Yeah, and I've talked about this, I think, even on your podcast and our podcast. What people, especially first-time buyers, what people need to be prepared about is, and this is not just with the smaller guys like Spooky. It's harder with stuff like Spooky, but a big company like Stern has been doing this for decades. you're still getting a science project that you might need to tweak a little bit even out just right out of the box i mean i've seen this when the the most new in box sterns i've opened in one day is 60 and god and yeah my back still hurts from that and um you you have to do little tweaks to make them you know play these are all like handmade machines you know i mean we saw it all happening you know there's people with hand tools making this thing you know they're not it's not robots and uh you know people just need to realize that there's there's a little tweaking outside of the box that you're gonna have to do um and i think that's what you were experiencing and i'm no stranger to it but it's yeah it's it's it's harder when it's like such a new thing and like you just want to play it but like you're spending hours of your day to add it i don't I want to beat it. I think Ian is so surprised he's not even moving. Do we still have Ian? He can't believe it. I don't think we do. I'll text him.
    74:29
    Hey, I got a text about a Lord of the Rings. What is this? Pre-Restoration Project and Lord of the Rings. Man, this is good. Yeah, again, still kind of looking for Lord of the Rings. Well, Ian still can't believe what's happening.
    74:42
    Will people be able to see this video? This is great. It looks like he's about to say something. He's ready. oh he's coming back um he'll come back if not let's talk shit quick before you get man what a loser he is ah hey i don't know what happened there but i uh yeah i was i was actually talking and i thought you guys were just talking over me like being dick so we thought you were like wow he's really paying attention yeah your screen was frozen like you were about to say something well what i what i wanted to say was kale do you remember they actually talked about this in there I think Seth Davis did. He said it has to get easier. He said that they're working on videos like, you know, like out of the box to kind of help people with some of these problems. I mean, dude, I think that's why they hired Kyle from Marco, like to to make those videos for them. Um, it's a huge point of emphasis that not only I think, you know, the, the uncharitable view of it, right. As they always say like, Hey, we're, we're using like these people as beta testers and then react. I don't think it's like that exactly. I think more, it's like, dude, these are not computers. They're not computer games. There are mechanical things that have to happen 100% of the time. And the degree of difficulty of that is just so crazy that like, yes, those things are going to happen. And absolutely, you're right. Like you spend $10,000 on your game and you're like, fuck this when this is airballing like every single time. Yeah. Totally understandable. But they are like – that is not something that they are not thinking about it, 100 percent. And this is becoming a bigger and bigger deal because I know you guys are seeing the same thing I'm seeing. So many new people getting into pinball and they start a message on whether it's Facebook or Reddit or Pinside. First time buyer, I want to get into pinball. What machine should I buy that I'm not going to have to work on? It doesn't exist. Star Trek Pro is the closest answer. No, hell no, it's not. the optos on that thing are a nightmare oh no shit yeah i've had to fix right yeah the octos for the vengeance uh what's that oh for the vengeance yeah yeah i mean yeah it'll ramp up your score it's crazy but yeah there's there's no like there's no easy answer to this the the real answer is you're gonna have to learn the work on this you know it's it's you know like it's like somebody going, what classic car can I buy that I'm not going to have to work on? I know, but a new car you don't have to work on is the problem. Yeah, but you're not taking a new car and throwing a steel ball bearing at it constantly. You're throwing the whole thing at asphalt all day at 100 miles an hour. Right. I get it. Cale, I'm just trying to be not the party line here because I think we do have to be kind of realistic about that because people are going to listen to this. Look first of all we heard all the shit Like these are going to be shills shillapalooza like blah blah blah blah blah For me I was like I didn want to All those all those guys record a podcast right after we got done that night like Don and all those guys And I was like, bro, that's a suicide mission to me. Not interested. Like, I don't want to be the one not thinking about what we're saying, because, Jason, I want to be like what you were talking about. Like, I want to go in with open eyes and kind of think about the hard questions. And so I just don't want I get it. And like, I think that they do too. That's all I can say is like, I don't know that they're a dude. I was this guy with spooky, right? Like kale's always making fun of spooky. I'm like, they're trying. They are trying like things fail and, and things like that. But it's just, I think there's such a high degree of difficulty in this industry. Yeah, there is. Well, I'm very happy that more than anything, why Stern invited everyone. I'm not like pivoting of like, no, I'm happy. Everyone went with me. That's not what I mean. But I'm glad that they took the step because people like yourselves or whoever is putting out these videos before an influencer knows what someone like – even like myself or Kerry Hardy, let's pick the people who might be hyper-focused. You know what the concerns are going to be ahead of time, so you know what to talk about. As in like these other people are like, look at that. They got John Wick pinball. Look at it go. Like, all right, fucker. Yeah, of course. Get to the stuff that people actually who are in the hobby need to know. They know they fucked that up. They're like – I mean, but it's funny to hear Gomez talk about it because he's like, we knew you guys were going to cover it. And we're like, well, yeah, but, bitch, like we kind of want like – Do you know the reality of it though? We want to feel good too. Like we want to feel – Let's take Kale out of this for – I mean you guys are a diamond in a rough for what you do. And I know you can probably even admit that. Like Electric Bat is fucking great and not other – not everyone can do what you guys are doing. So you will have access to games because you make money off them. Take myself, Pinball Party Podcast, and Ian, who live in the same town, have the same problems of how to play games. If, let's say, Nudge, I know you guys don't review games, but let's say that you kind of did more. Or if I, as a pinball content creator, which no one's paying me to do this, if I want to talk about a new game, the only way I can talk about a new game, unlike Retro Ralph or these other people, is either I have to buy it and get it in my house and then deal with, well, the customer service, or all these things that like uh-oh or i drive minimum three hour round trip because our local place isn't big enough to get all the new games all the time they do great stuff but they just can't do what electric pad is like day one have new games that's a lot to ask of us so we're like of course like a someone who's just like in like uh california we'll send you a game to review it like fuck yeah okay great i'm gonna love this fucking thing but i have to work my ass off to be able to play a game for sure and and to be honest like i think part of that and i'll just put this on us right it's like fucking move to a different town then motherfucker like uh you know what i mean like but yeah if we're gonna get to the nuts and bolts of this and why some people get sent games um and and i've oh it makes sense they should they get tons of influence they use video yeah well i would if there was okay i would but they were using video before and prove that they could show something that makes sense i'm not doubting look of course i mean i don't people who think that it doesn't make sense that stern sent these people who have like a hundred thousand people watching them of course they fucking should but yeah there was one dude with 1.8 million subscribers that we've never met before send that bro a game yeah arcade matt he's like a claw machine master dude was actually pretty cool too like i talked i talked to him for a while but he's not going to speak to our crew the way we need to you know 100 right yeah and like i said this was definitely uh in a lot of ways i think this was zach sharp had said this was not a response to that but i do think this like he had planned something like this for a while he had wanted to do it for a while but i think the impetus to do this changed when that happened and people saw the reaction to those uh videos so i i think that was a catalyst for like allowing us to get in there now but i yeah so at the end of the day i think it's all a positive thing of like the the culture pinball had to react at some point that's going to happen and then at least stern did the thing of like okay well we'll do something about it instead of just like well fuck you you know so in the end it will be good for the hobby i i think they need to do both i mean to me as like a guy coming from marketing i talked about this a little bit with them but it's like the people that you're gonna get from big youtube channels are gonna be right we talk about the customer journey in marketing and no one tuned into this podcast to hear that stuff but right it starts with building trust and awareness those are the first two things and but right and trust me right um and so i think those videos are gonna do that with a really wide audience but they're not like far enough along on their journey that those people are actually gonna buy games even though right nudge has a much smaller audience than arcade matt uh the people who are with us are like they're like right there you know what i mean they either they already own a game two games three games and so i think both of those you can't you can't neglect either part of it because it's all like a continuation of one thing so for them i think that that's going to grow the hobby for the next like five to ten years you have to have that kind of strategy too but uh the the people who are already in it like you you know you need both so i 100 when i before i started doing this and even now to a certain extent when i'm thinking about getting a game i'm not going to like i know IGN does some of this, but that's the biggest. They have a guy, what's his name, Clayborne on IGN. That is your outreach. Keep that going. But even that doesn't seem to be moving the needle. Or some of the guys at Giant Bomb.
    84:04
    But I will listen to either straight down the middle video reviews or the pinball show or Triple Drain or not myself. I don't listen to myself. That's where I'm really listening because those people play pinball, and they know that's where I'm getting the like, oh, should I spend money on this? Should I play that game? because they're the ones talking the way I need to hear it versus it's a ball. Look at it go, you know? Yeah. I wonder, and this is totally me speculating here. I wonder if trust just had to be built up back on both sides, because I think that probably there's been some, Hey dude, you know this. Like I know this. Kale knows this. Like there's a lot of cock fuckery that's going on in the pinball media space. Like we kind of will leak anything. We'll treat each other like crap. will like do unhinged videos it's like if i'm a multi-millionaire treat each other like crap i don't buy into that though let me just put that there i don't want to treat people like crap well i mean talk to uh chris or uh like you know chris canada and whoever he's he's in rivalry with and like how they go back and forth uh that's happened with zach many even it's happened with oh yeah i don't consider that acceptable so i but so don't well but that's what i'm saying is they have seen that too so it's like i don't want to get into i don't want to be releasing this stuff to people who are unhinged and i don't know what they're going to say i i understand i understand that part of it so it's like we we got to be on good behavior and that's why i think we talked about this before the video and i i wonder about it there were some things that we can't talk about and i i'm not going to uh and i think kale kale won't either because part of me thinks maybe this as a test. Maybe some of these leaks aren't even real. They want to see can these guys actually handle it? You know what I mean? What Ian's talking about is when we were in the conference room, George told us one thing and a very interesting story about a game. He was like, please, this is just for you guys. Don't say anything. Ian and I both agreed this was like a litmus test. If it gets out, They know who was in the room. Exactly.
    86:18
    That's cool. So just I think it's a two-sided street, right? Like it's a relationship thing. And absolutely, like Stern recognizes their part and I think is trying to build that up a little bit more. And ideally, good faith-wise, like it doesn't mean shill for them. It doesn't mean blindly agree with like whatever the PR is that gets released. But it does mean act like a media professional. Like how IGN acts, they're not going to wave around a gun and cry. Like they're not going to. I'm, you know, it's, yeah. Well, no. So.
    86:54
    Hey, let me, okay. Let me just do this just to ask you two. We are all obviously supportive of each other in this clearly.
    87:03
    My goal in some of my struggles is, and I guess maybe Cale knows this more than anything, is I'm not really sure the aim of what I'm doing specifically to talk about me. So when I kind of mused, I'm like, oh, why didn't I go to Stern? I'm like, well, I wasn't really making a podcast to say like, hey, I'm a marketing branch and I'll say everything great. So I wasn't really doing that. So to expect to get invited was also like I knew that the whole time. Finding that balance, I guess what I learned for myself is that I can't censor my like honesty about the Jaws type stuff. But I think if part of my goal, if what I'm saying is to still help this hobby, then I can at least tune the negative stuff in the vein to still be somewhat helpful versus like – and I don't think – so guess what I'm asking you. Does it come across that I'm this – if I say a negative thing, then it comes across just as attacking negative fuck you?
    87:58
    I would have to take it case by case. I think your concerns are always valid. It's how you voice them. Right. And so like, I think that would be true with Kaneda, too. Like with if if this if his arguments are made in good faith and that you're actually trying to critique the hobby in a way that's constructive and the industry, I think like no one's going to have a problem with those things. They never would like but but when you kind of create straw men arguments and you are sort of just repeating like sound bites, you know, or like shark don't eat ball, like, you know, like hop on those things. And I get what what the impulse would be to do it. And I'm not saying you do that. You don't do that. That's that's why I'm saying is like, keep keep doing what you're doing, because that's the right way to do it. But I think if it's in bad faith and you're kind of just going for clicks and that can happen either way. Like I there are some people that kind of come out and you're like, dude, you don't have to like dick ride as hard as you are either. Like I don't think they want that either. That doesn't look cool. So, yeah, dude, like we value authenticity. And I think that's be your authentic self, but just also know like you can be in your feelings sometimes. I can too and I have to recognize that about myself so also let's recognize they did invite people who have been critical you know Tom was there and he just did a whole I mean he rarely cuts on his webcam to say anything and he blasts Stern for like you know inviting these video game YouTuber people to come see the game I love Tom talking trash though because it's so uh gentle and like uh just a very calm but he's not really he's not really pulling punches it's no he's not i think his his was a very good video if anyone i don't know absolutely i love tom and his message um but also hub challenge hub challenge was there and they've been very vocal about that one social media post where oh yeah i don't even know what that was so it was a it was a guy playing pinball and there's a shot from behind him and a girl who's supposedly his girlfriend looking at the camera smiling and i can't remember what it said but it said like it said my girlfriend after it was a really hacky meme which is like why it was so bad it was like my girlfriend taking pictures 12 hours into me playing pinball or something like that and i think just like it wasn't even that it was an egregiously sexist it is sexist and like but i think it was like sexist unfunny and like it they had just reached a point in these memes where it was like four in a couple months that were all had this tone of like women are fuddy-duddies that like don't like pinball and so it was sort of just like you know what fuck this like we actually do like pinball quite a bit you know and so that that was sort of the reaction i think is is where that came it wasn't that it was just some terrible like you know it was just like an unfunny lame meme that felt like old school. I've always said this. It's like, dude, you see Nudge. We have pictures of hot women in front of pinball machines. There is a uncharitable view of those pictures that's like these guys are being exploitative or sexist. But the fact of the matter is that women love Nudge magazine. And those pictures specifically get some of the best compliments from women of all. And it's because we see women as pinball players and like that they like it just as much and they like all these, you know, it's like, right. Understanding that part of it is actually like you'll get so much credit from the community, I think. So that that was like the controversy, essentially. Yeah. So so they did. They invited people who have been openly critical and uh and listen to them you know those folks got got a voice in the conference room so yeah absolutely double down on air balls talk is that what you're saying we didn't let me tell you about jaws bruh uh hey okay i the only the only jaws that i brought up which sucks sorry jason i was very complimentary i got to like and i want to get into some of the if we can like we're talking a lot of nuts and bolts it would be cool to talk about partying with stern guys because that was my favorite part like getting to hang out with keith elwyn dude keith elwyn knew like hold on for the for the patreon people we have this keith elwyn sticker that i sometimes hand out with uh and he's like a robot like it's hard to see it here because it's like out of focus but he's like a robot it's kind of like if you picture kano from mortal combat with a hat on a hundred percent and Jack's arm. And he knew about those stickers already. He was like, and you know, like, Cale, you know Keith. So, like, he recognized me. I wasn't sure that he did because he's so sort of, you know, taciturn. He doesn't say a lot. And he just goes, hey, you got one of those stickers on me? And I was like, I do. I do, actually. And I gave him a sticker. And I was like, oh, thanks, man. And then he was sitting at a table with two other guys. And I was kind of like, dude, you know me. Like sometimes I take chances with shit and I maybe shouldn't do that. And so I was a little bit nervous because – Did you try to kiss him? No, I was talking to Keith a lot. And then I was like, hey, guys. And I kind of like looked at them and they're like, yeah, we're the rest of his team. Kind of like one of the guys said that and I was like, oh, cool. And I'm like, do you know Nudge Magazine? He's like, no. And I was like, do you want one? He's like, nah. and so I'm like okay no problem the other guy took one and then uh that guy asked for a sticker so I gave him a big key sticker and then we have I made little one inch uh like on accident when I first ordered them I got these tiny ones that are like this big uh and so I go back to the other guy I didn't want a magazine I'm like and you get a little one because you don't fuck with our magazine so but uh and I couldn't tell I was like he seems like he's actually not taking this that well so that was like a little bit of a of a funny moment but dude getting able to talk to keith and just being like dude i think you're doing some really special shit in pinball like taking some chances and like kind of creating i don't want to say it's like recreating pinball but it is kind of like getting these different objectives and mixing and matching and having these crazy flows like dude like i'll hit five or six shots in a row on jaws uh and combo them in like cool ways where i'm like thinking it's like a line and skateboarding right like i'm seeing all the tricks i'm gonna do in a row and they're even like the um like tying the knot shit right like that's that's part of that right it's like teaching you how to combo stuff it's like dude what what game is is is that is so smart and cool so for me to be able to just like express that without like fanboying but just be like bro i really fucking appreciate what you're doing and have him just be like a normal guy and be like thank you like thanks for noticing it like those are the memories that i'm going to take from this like uh forever you know like that that was the part of it that was so special to me okay what about you any any lasting memories uh yeah i mean just just all i know i sound like a broken record but all of these people getting together you know and and it was really um It was really cool because when we took a break, the whole team, the pinball influencers, they brought us lunch and we had pizza from Luminati's. I guess if you've listened to Canadi's, you've already heard what we ate because he seemed to know the menu before we even got there. So we had Luminati's. We had Portillo's or like in Arizona, we like to pronounce it Portillo's. is that because you're biracial exactly me and Travis right yeah the two biracials so when it's time for us to eat everybody comes out of their cubicles and offices and all of a sudden you're sitting there you're eating a slice of pizza and Keith sits down or Brian Eddy sits down and it's all like no big deal we're all just like friends and hanging out and that was so cool and uh you know a really funny part about that so after we eat we get on a bus and and this is a total like party bus completely blacked out uh neon lights it was really funny because the guy who had to find the bus said he had a very hard time finding one that would fit all of us that did not have a stripper pole no one stripper poles yeah like the all the everyone else wants and the first thing that jason knapp does when he gets on the bus he goes where's the pole yeah he's a party guy uh so you know gary and gary loads us all up on there he's like okay is everybody in okay kids let's do it and i was and i said you know hey you're gonna ride with us he's like oh no i'm gonna drive myself so we're we're cruising down the interstate in this bus and all of a sudden you see out the left the corner of my eye gary and his convertible flying along the side of us with his hair blowing in the wind nice like this scene he's like leading the pack you know It's straight out of a movie. It was. It truly was. And, dude, to reiterate again, Gary and Seth and George partied the whole night. We were gone before they were. It was wild to me. It reminded me of something out of Mad Men. I don't know if you've seen that show, but there's the Christmas episode where they kind of have to sell a client, and they're just there partying all night long. They did one of those for us, which was rad. Like, dude, talk. So and like, I just want to bring this up, too, because if we're wrapping this up, like George Gomez, like really opened up to me at Logan. It was cool to hear his origin story of like, dude is an immigrant from Cuba, like came to Miami when he's like three years old or something and then moved to Chicago. I think he said before fourth grade or something like that. And like he's like telling me, I'm like, dude, how did you get into this thing? And he told this great, can I just tell his story? Is that cool? Or he, he, he told me, so he's like living at his parents' house, just finishing college. And his mom's like, you need a job. You know, she's this like Cuban mom, like really concerned about him. Like you absolutely need, like you're living at home, figure this out. Uh, and recommended a head hunter to him, right? Like a corporate head hunter to find him a job. He goes, this head hunter, the guys like sees his background, basically his backgrounds in design, like some engineering and some kind of art stuff. He has a portfolio. Uh, and the guy's like, I don't know what to do with you. Where do you want to work? And I think it was Bali, right? Is that the first place that he was at? Um, yeah. So he's like, well, I would love to get an interview at Bali. And so the guy leaves and he comes back like the next day and he's, and he calls George and he says, uh, I got you an interview. I don't know how, I don't know anyone there, but the guy's going to be gone for two weeks. And, uh, so get ready. So George looks at his portfolio and it's all these like class projects. And this is how I know I would fuck with George. Like I told George when he was telling this story, I'm like, you would make a great nudge contributor because you, you are a self starter. And that's the thing that I look for first in nudge is like, if I can teach you to take pictures, I can teach you to write, I can teach you to shoot video, but I can't teach you wanting to fucking do this stuff. And so what George did with those two weeks was he saw his portfolio sucked. He went around to all the arcades in Chicago and redesigned the Bally stuff, how he would design it. Right. And so he goes into the interview and he's like the first guy. He's just an HR guy. He didn't know anything. He's like, but that guy, you know, brings in an engineer. He's like, well, let's look at these things. And the engineer just looks at his stuff. It's like, wow, leaves, gets his boss. That boss comes in and is like, oh, that's pretty cool. Leaves, gets his boss. This happens like four times until it's the head of engineering at Bally, looks at his portfolio and is like, hey, let's walk around. Let's talk about this stuff. And he's like, I got the job that day. He's like, I got the job at 3 p.m. I moved out of my parents' house at 4. Nice. And he's like, my mom was so sad. She's like, I wanted you to get a job. I didn't want you to move out. And he's like, but I couldn't wait. So, but to me, that was like such a cool, like, dude, to hear the hustle and like, he's like, he was like us, you know, like he's one of the, I'm thinking that way. Like, I want to pitch those guys on stuff and they're like, well, we don't really take pitches. I'm like, that's how you started. Like you, you pitched, you know, like, let me pitch. Like, so I think like hearing that side of the industry and like these young hungry guys, like who kind of changed gaming, like I'm going to, I'm going to remember that shit for the rest of my life for sure. Well, before I let you two go, I just want to ask a question. Have either of you pissed in a sink before?
    101:30
    I'm sure I have, but I can't recall. I feel like I'm sure I have too, and there's a reason I can't recall. But yeah, I feel like I have. Okay. If not, I encouraged people earlier to give it a shot if you haven't in a long time. It's a really freeing feeling. It's just something I try to do once a year. I love I tell this heartfelt Gomez story, and the next question is, have you ever pissed in the sink? This is Pinball Party. Like, that's the essence of Pinball Party right there. Yeah. That's Stern. So thanks for joining. Yeah, Stern, heads up. If you want some of this good shit, you know, we'll piss in your sink.
    102:02
    No one did that while we were there. Well, okay. Well, that's a gap, you know. Kale, thanks for joining. Go check out Electric Bat Arcade. Doc Monday, as always. Go check out Nudge Pinball dot whatever. It's all out there. Use the web to find it. Thanks for joining, guys.
    102:18
    Stay in this moment and don't let it out of sight. Hold my hand, I'll erase all the sins in life. Did you bite on more than you could chew? I've been a change so good I did so Wait just a minute, there's only arrangement time Beg for forgiveness and don't stare direct in my eye Did you bite off more than you could chew?
    103:23
    I bet it tastes so good on its own Outro Music