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Episode 165: Bye Slam Tilt Podcast?

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·43m 11s·held·Nov 24, 2018
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Slam Tilt Podcast shifts to infrequent schedule; hosts discuss pinball game design and 1989 classics.

Summary

Ron Hallett and Bruce Nightingale of Slam Tilt Podcast announce they're transitioning from weekly to infrequent episodes due to burnout from editing and other commitments. They discuss the podcast's evolution, interview highlights, and then engage in a Face Off debate comparing 1989 pinball games (Midway vs. Williams), touching on game design philosophy, rule complexity, and industry trends.

Key Claims

  • Slam Tilt Podcast has missed only 3 episodes in 2.5 years of weekly production

    high confidence · Bruce Nightingale states this directly during the discussion about why they're slowing down

  • Ron Hallett carries most of the editing and behind-the-scenes work for Slam Tilt

    high confidence · Bruce acknowledges Ron does 'a lot more work' and 'carries the load' with editing and production

  • Head to Head to Head A Pinball Podcast (Australian show) was influenced by Slam Tilt Podcast format but has evolved beyond it

    high confidence · Ron and Bruce acknowledge Head to Head as a spin-off concept with mutual creative benefit; they expect it to win the Twippies award

  • Face Off segment was created by Slam Tilt Podcast and later adopted by other shows

    high confidence · Ron explicitly states 'Slam Tilt was the one who created Face Off' and notes that other shows may have copied the format

  • Raymond Davidson (ranked #1 player) considers Simpsons Pinball Party one of his favorite games

    high confidence · Jeff Teolis cites Raymond Davidson as 'the number one player in the world' who loves Simpsons, contrasting with Ron's negative view

  • Jermaine won a Tommy competition against Raymond Davidson primarily due to landing all three skill shots while Raymond landed none

    medium confidence · Bruce recounts an event in Vancouver 2017 where skill shots were the decisive factor in competitive play

  • Iron Maiden is positioned as one of the best pinball games ever made

    high confidence · Jeff Teolis states 'certainly it's going to go down probably as one of the best games ever' and both Ron and Bruce express strong approval

  • Iron Maiden primary weakness is excessive multiball in wizard modes

    medium confidence · Zach (mentioned by Bruce) prefers single-ball wizard modes like Metallica's approach, noting every Iron Maiden wizard mode is multiball

Notable Quotes

  • “Ron needs a break. Ronnie needs a break. And Bruce has a bar.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ ~2:00 — Explains the primary motivation for Slam Tilt's transition to infrequent episodes

  • “If it's not fun for either one of us, we'd either take a break or stop. And we're going to just do it infrequently.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ ~2:30 — Establishes the philosophy that guides their decision to reduce production schedule

  • “They do everything we did but better. So I'd recommend people listen to the Head to Head to Head A Pinball Podcast.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ ~7:00 — Acknowledges Head to Head Podcast's evolution while maintaining a collaborative spirit rather than competitive rivalry

  • “Slam Tilt was the one who created Face Off. Now, we don't hear that show anymore, maybe because you think, okay, we'll let those guys kind of rip it off.”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~8:30 — Establishes Slam Tilt's origin of the Face Off segment format and implies its adoption by other shows

  • “It's a clunk fest. Playfield sucks. You hit the garage 30 zillion times and go up.”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~13:00 — Ron's harsh criticism of Simpsons Pinball Party contrasts with pro player opinion, highlighting designer/player disagreement

  • “I think Iron Maiden a perfect game.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ ~28:00 — Strong endorsement of Iron Maiden as a modern classic despite minor criticisms from Zach

  • “I would prefer less multiball. That's my only gripe... I just feel like every time, everything is a multiball.”

    Zach (quoted by Bruce) @ ~27:00 — Highlights design philosophy debate about multiball frequency in modern games like Iron Maiden

  • “That needs to be fixed... Terrible artwork. It was just an overrated game. Horribly overrated game.”

    [name withheld pending review] — Ron's strong criticism of Mousin' Around's multiball restart mechanic and design quality

Entities

[name withheld pending review]personBruce NightingalepersonJeff TeolispersonRaymond DavidsonpersonJermainepersonZach SharpepersonPat Lawlorperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Slam Tilt Podcast transitioning from weekly to infrequent schedule due to production burnout, specifically editing workload on Ron Hallett. This reflects broader tensions between content creation sustainability and community demand in pinball media.

    high · Ron explicitly states 'I've had enough editing. I just can't take it anymore.' Bruce confirms Ron 'carries the load' with editing and production work.

  • ?

    content_signal: Face Off segment created by Slam Tilt has been adopted by other pinball podcasts, suggesting successful format innovation that spreads across media ecosystem.

    high · Ron states 'Slam Tilt was the one who created Face Off' and notes the format is now replicated elsewhere, with implicit credit issues

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Significant disagreement between competitive players and casual/designer perspectives on game design: Ron (designer-leaning) criticizes Simpsons Pinball Party while Raymond Davidson (#1 player) loves it, highlighting the casual-vs-competitive design tension.

    high · Ron calls Simpsons 'a clunk fest' with bad playfield shots, while Jeff notes Raymond Davidson (top player) lists it as a favorite, and Jeff himself owns one and enjoys it

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Debate over role of skill shots in competitive pinball: instance cited where skill shots alone determined tournament outcome (Jermaine vs Raymond on Tommy), raising questions about balance between luck and skill.

    medium · Bruce recounts Vancouver 2017 event where Jermaine landed all three skill shots vs Raymond's zero, determining match outcome by narrow margin

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.130

0:00
it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teolis you can find our group on facebook we're also on twitter at pinball profile email us pinball profile at gmail.com and please subscribe on either itunes stitcher or google play this is a show you'll find several times a month, certainly at least once a week. And I'm sad to say that one of my favorite shows will soon no longer be a weekly show. It was just announced this week on Slam Tilt Podcast that Ron and Bruce are not taking a hiatus, but just going to be a little infrequent. Well, let's go right to the horse's mouth right now. And I'm not saying you have a horse face by any means, but Ron and Bruce are joining me right now. Hello, boys. Hello.
0:52
Ron's sick of me. I've had enough. I've had enough editing. I just can't take it anymore. What is it that's making you guys slow down? And I know you guys very well, so those who don't know you might not know the inside scoop. What is the reason for Slam Tilt going to slow down in the new year? Well, after two and a half years of a – how many episodes have we missed? Like three? Three. Yeah, three and two and a half years of a weekly podcast. That's a lot of recording. Yeah. And Ronnie needs a break. And Bruce has a bar. I have a bar. It's a lot more work on Ron than it is me. I'll be the first to admit that. Ron does a lot of the behind the scenes with the editing and with making me sound so good, so sexy. That is a lot of editing. It is a lot. It really is. And so he's been carrying the load. He's been carrying the load a lot lately. So he's going to – Can we say that on this show? Yes, we can. Classier show, Bruce. No, be classy. You can say that. I'm the clean one. See? Yeah. And, you know, he's done a lot of the work, so he's getting a little burnt out. And we've always said, if it's not fun for either one of us, we'd either take a break or stop. And we're going to just do it infrequently. It'll be a surprise when we come out. Hey, I'm just glad it's not over, you know. And I also appreciate the time that you put in. I've done this now for a couple of years, but my shows are short. Your shows are a lot longer. You've got the news of the week. there's more details involved in your shows too. You've got long interviews, great interviews, including just recently, Oren Day was fantastic to find out the history of that. The Lyman 100th episode is one of the best of all time. So it is a lot of work, and I don't think a lot of people realize that. And Bruce and Lon, how much money have you made off of your podcast?

Earthshaker's primary strategy reduces to repeatedly hitting the middle ramp to collect miles

medium confidence · Ron critiques the rule set as uninteresting, saying competitive play focuses on one ramp repeatedly rather than varied shot strategy

  • Mousin' Around!! center ramp is commonly modified in tournament settings to prevent exploitation

    medium confidence · Jeff Teolis notes that 'most places do modify that' ramp, citing Pinberg and Papa as examples with large rubbers

    • @ ~38:00

  • “Mousing around for the win. Woo! Fail. Fail.”

    Jeff Teolis @ ~43:00 — Judge's decision favoring Mousin' Around over Earthshaker despite acknowledging Earthshaker's innovative shaker motor

  • “The greatest multiball intro sequence in the history of pinball... I give you Black Knight 2000.”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~45:00 — Ron's passionate endorsement of Black Knight 2000 as a design pinnacle, establishing design aesthetic preferences

    • Larry DeMar
    person
    Steven Bowdenperson
    Keith P. Johnsonperson
    Python Angheloperson
    Joe Katzperson
    Bowen Kerinsperson
    Head to Head Podcastorganization
    Slam Tilt Podcastorganization
    Pinball Profileorganization
    [name withheld pending review]event
    Freeplay Floridaevent
    Twippiesevent
    Iron Maidengame
    Simpsons Pinball Partygame
    Earthshakergame
    Black Knight 2000game
    Mousin' Around!game
    Pirates of the Caribbeangame

    design_philosophy: Modern game design trend toward excessive multiball in wizard modes criticized by Zach; Iron Maiden noted as example where every wizard mode is multiball, contrasting with Metallica's single-ball wizard approach preferred by some players.

    medium · Bruce quotes Zach preferring 'single ball mini wizard mode' like Metallica's design, stating Iron Maiden's 'every time, everything is a multiball' approach feels excessive

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Ongoing challenge with undocumented rule mechanics in pinball games: players still discovering hidden rules on games they've owned for years, and newer games lack tutorial videos because code updates continuously.

    high · Jeff admits owning World Cup Soccer for 3 years before learning skill shot completion mechanic from Escher in Florida; notes Deadpool and Guardians videos are outdated due to code changes

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Competitive players employ sophisticated rule knowledge including hidden mechanics (e.g., AC/DC multiball button timing, Metallica pick-to-snake-doubling not listed in rules) to gain advantages, creating skill ceiling beyond published rules.

    medium · Discussion of hidden ACDC rules, Metallica snake doubling without documentation, and reliance on tilt forums and pin tips rather than official resources

  • $

    market_signal: Iron Maiden rapidly elevated to 'one of the best games ever' status within release year, indicating strong market reception and community consensus despite minor design criticisms, suggesting healthy demand for modern titles.

    high · Jeff calls Iron Maiden 'one of the best games ever' made in last 3-4 years; both Bruce and Ron express strong approval; only minor criticism from Zach about multiball ratio

  • ?

    community_signal: Healthy pinball podcast ecosystem with format innovation and mutual respect despite competition; Head to Head Podcast's success viewed as validation of Slam Tilt format rather than threat; shows collaborative rather than zero-sum dynamic.

    high · Ron and Bruce celebrate Head to Head's likely Twippies win, recommend listeners check it out, acknowledge it does their format 'but better'; mutual content sharing and guest appearances

  • ?

    product_concern: Recurring design issues in specific games remain unresolved: Mousin' Around's center ramp repeatedly exploitable (requiring tournament modification), multiball restart failure (no continuation after spelling MOUSETRAP), and breakable plastics cited as enduring problems.

    medium · Ron calls Mousin' Around 'horribly overrated' due to center ramp exploit, multiball restart bug, and easily breakable plastics; Jeff confirms ramp modification common in tournament settings

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Electromechanical pinball skill shot strategy differs from digital machines: full plunge gauging, soft plunge for specific outcomes, and pin tip knowledge used to manipulate ball placement, showing distinct skill sets across eras.

    medium · Discussion of full plunge strategy on EMs to gauge lane placement, half-plunge on DMs to avoid multiple bounces, and pin tips for targeting specific lanes

  • ?

    historical_signal: Pat Lawlor's design pedigree (Earthshaker) remains influential in modern discourse, but his work showing age compared to contemporary standards despite shaker motor innovation being groundbreaking at time.

    medium · Ron critiques Earthshaker as 'one of his clunkier designs' with one-shot strategy despite Pat Lawlor's legendary status; Jeff calls it 'certainly not one of Pat Lawler's best' relative to his other work

    • 2:40
    Hold on. It takes a while to count it. It's so much. Carry the one. Yeah. I think it's zero. One times zero is still zero. Although you could argue the podcast has kind of given you the inside track on some games, perhaps. Oh, of course. Yes, of course. It has. We'll always take more.
    3:00
    My point is that you guys did this for the love of pinball and your friendship over many, many years. That will obviously still continue. And when it becomes work and not fun and, oh, boy, I've got to make this schedule. You guys record on Monday nights, and Bruce is now working a lot more than he ever did before with the bar. And I know, Ron, you've been very busy as well, too, at work and some late nights and being on call. That then becomes work and not fun and probably not what you set out to do when you first started Slam Tilt. Good point. I agree totally. I do. I agree. It is a lot of burnout, to say that. Let's say another thing. There's only so much pinball you can truly talk. It is hard to bring up a lot of interesting stuff. This week we do have a lot of interesting things going on. But some weeks you're just sitting there like, hey, Ron, how's it going? What's on the list this morning? And then it'll tell me and I'm like, okay, let's try to stretch it out. Some new mods came out. Yeah, and we don't like mods. So that just goes right off the deep end. And you only steal so much from This Week in Pinball. Hi, Jeff. Speaking of stealing, do you feel slighted that those creeps from Australia, Martin and Ryan basically stole your show and put a Southern Hemisphere sound to it, a few extra giggles, a lot of gin, and just completely pilfered Slam Tilt. Oh, we love that because guess what? When they win the Twippy this year, it's like we win. Hell yeah. See? They're definitely winning the Twippy. Exactly. So when they win, we win. Yeah. Do you think those creeps will give you any credit? I'll tell you what's made head-to-head go over the top. Whenever they get that funny pin-side PD guy on, I get such a kick out of that. I hate that guy. That guy's an idiot. He is an idiot. I told him to F off. I heard that. I know. He has this weird thing for Mrs. Penn. It's very disturbing. Creepy. It is a little creepy. She's a happily married woman, and he just goes on and on about his love for her. It's obviously a crush. I mean, he's a young boy. Nothing's going to happen, but, I mean, buddy, lay low. Be cool about it. She'll come to you. it's interesting that you said if and when they win the twippies which i think they've got a very good shot of winning that i think there is a sense of pride in what you guys have done because they don't pretend to say oh you know what we we uh completely made this original show no they got some great ideas from you and we're guests i mean ryan won the contest for the 50th episode if i recall because of his emails and ron's great australian accent when he would read those. I mean, you guys are a big, big influence to those two. Well, it goes both ways. It does. They do help us out a lot, too, with certain things. So it's a good partnership. But guess what? Maybe we're trying to get the sympathy vote for the Twippies. Like, look, we're going to be off the air now soon. So now you need to vote for us this year. You know, it's like the Academy Awards when you see that person that's been up there. Gosh, they've been nominated for so many times, just give it to them one time. I think that's a good point. See? We can pull on their heartstrings a little bit. But I'd rather, you know, honestly, if they win, it's like a win for us, as I said. Well, basically, they do everything we did but better. So I'd recommend people listen to the Head to Head podcast. Oh, definitely. Definitely. To kind of see, like, what we do taken to another level. Do they do it better? Because I'm going to show you something that was created right here on Slam Tilt Podcast. as you're listening to Pinball Profile. Slam Tilt was the one who created Face Off. Now, we don't hear that show anymore, maybe because you think, okay, we'll let those guys kind of rip it off. And, you know, people forget where it all started. It started on Slam Tilt with Face Off. How does Face Off work? Well, Face Off is where we choose a random year, which we have pre-chosen this time, of 1989. And we go through the year in pinball and see what games came out from the different manufacturers, and then each of us, me and Bruce, will get a manufacturer randomly chosen for us, and then we will get to pick three games from this list of games, and we will debate on which game is better. And we will have a judge, and the judge would usually be a guest, which we're actually your guest, so this is kind of weird, but I guess you are the judge. I like it. And it doesn't matter if we don't like the game, if it's something that's the only good game there. If I had to pick Simpsons Pinball Party or something, a game I hate, I would still put it over as the greatest thing ever. We're going to postpone face-off for one second here. I'm looking forward to doing that because it's been a while on Slam Tilt. You and I were at Freeplay Florida in early November and talked about Simpsons Pinball Party. You know I love it. I bought the game off of Bruce. Bruce loves it, still misses it. Ron, how dare you hate the game that one of your best guests ever, who happens to be the number one player in the world in Raymond Davidson, I know him as David Raymondson, he says that's one of his favorite games. He knows a little bit about pinball. Ron, explain yourself. It's a clunk fest. Playfield sucks. You hit the garage 30 zillion times and go up. It's one of those Keith Johnson rule sets where it's like you stack everything. You stack like 10 modes at once, start multiball, and every single shot is lit, and you just hit, like everything gives you points, and there you go. There's Simpsons. So you've got to set everything up. You've got to start all these modes and then get into multiball, and then just every shot is lit and hit stuff. But, I mean, it's more the play field, honestly, than the software. I just think it's a clunk fest. Just sitting in the garage, you have a ramp that's supposed to be a ramp, that side ramp that almost never can hit the damn thing. And, yeah, the upper plate feels fairly cool, but there's not anything else. It's just a clunk fest. It's just not fun to shoot, period. Bruce, I don't know what kind of game he's talking about because the one I bought off you, I have no problem hitting the garage, it going up. I have no problem going up that side ramp. I know. Maybe it's how it's set up, and I happen to buy one from a guy who knows how to set it up. Yep, I think that's the true case. No, the one I play, I hit the garage 30 zillion times and get up on the garage and get up in the upper play field 30 zillion times and do the same stuff. It doesn't make it anymore. It's just now. Okay, so you're then describing half the pinball machines in the world too because when it's Medial Madness, all you're doing is in the castle, in the castle, destroying the castle. Honestly, the only satisfying shot in that entire game of The Simpsons, I think, is hitting the couch with the little mini flipper. That literally is the only shot to me that feels satisfying. There's only one shot I don't like on the game. Can you guess what it is? It's not the garage. There's only one shot I don't like. Itchy and scratchy hole. That's it. Yeah. And I usually hit the corner of the light auto stand-up, and it ricochets off and goes into. It's a stupid shot, but it seems to work, and that's how I get into itchy and scratchy or luck into it by going off a few slings. That's the only shot I don't like. I love hitting crusty. I love hitting auto to extend the time. I have no problem going up the ramp, the side ramp. Nope. The skill shot is great with Comic Book Guy. Two skill shots. Or you have the cat. Or you also have the bullies. So you have three skill shots. One thing I don't like in games is where skill shots can be the entire game. If you were in Vancouver in 2017 Raymond Davidson basically lost to Jermaine on the game Tommy because it was playing very tough If you had million on Tommy it like you had the wizard mode All right. So if you get the skill shot, which I think are $10 million each and maybe $20 on the second and $30 on the third, I could be wrong, but I know it was at least $10 for the first one. Jermaine hit all three and won by a minuscule score. Raymond didn't hit any of them. and that was the difference in winning and losing that contest. So when skill shots become too much, I mean, Ron and I, we were in Orlando, and at Freeplay Florida, one of the games on Classics was Volley. I played a game, and I had a guy standing behind me where I cleaned all the drops three consecutive times. All three sets. Didn't have one in-lane at the top. So I got nothing for all those. I would argue that skill-based, plunging those in-lanes on the top, especially on old EMs. that's a skill shot, you have to hit the right lane. Just ask Roger Sharp. He knows about hitting the right lane.
    11:46
    I do agree it is skilled. I just don't have that skill, and it depends on… Play better. Well, you know what I usually do on EMs? I don't know what you guys do. I usually do a full plunge on my first ball and then gauge from there. So if it's a good shot, like let's say it goes down the yellow lane in volley on a full shot, great. I know where that is. It's going to be 5,000 later on, and it's going to give me the 1,000 pops. Love it. If it's not, maybe it went too far, okay, you adjust and you obviously let a little off on the plunger. That's usually how I gauge as opposed to lining something up right away where I really have no idea. Full plunge, if it hits it, I can hit it every time. I don't know what you guys do. Well, if I know the game a little bit, I'll try to do what the skill shot or, because certain EMs that do have a shot where you want to go for, it's just, you know, playing, you know, knowing it and even like the pin tips will actually help you too. Sometimes I'll go for this shot for the beginning or just soft plunge it or do whatever you need to do. It all varies, but you just got to try your best and figure out what to do. That's most DMs. Skill shot, I'll go like half. I don't want to hit it that hard where it bounces back and forth like twice. To me, that's not going to be as consistent because you never know how – if it's bouncing more than once, the chances that we'll do the exact same thing multiple times is much lower. So I usually go about half. If it's like a lane skill shot on the top, that's where I'll usually start it. Jack's Open was in the main bank, and there's another game where it's important to get those lanes, but not all of the lanes, as I didn't realize. How stupid am I? I've been playing that forever. And Bob Matthews was making fun of me because I think I hit, there are four in lanes at the top, and I hit five of them. I knocked all four down and then hit another one later. I felt pretty proud of myself. And Bob said, you know, get all the lanes out. The targets aren't worth anything. I'm like, oh, I didn't realize that. I just assumed it was 4,000 or... Nope, nope. You want to leave one of them open. I can't believe I'm still learning things. I've been playing competitive pinball for a while, and I'm still learning things on games I've been playing over and over and over again, including... Do you have World Cup soccer, Ron? I think you do. Hell yeah. I didn't realize, and I found out from Escher, who happened to win basically everything in Florida, that when you complete all three of those plunger shots, it gives you something. Do you know what it gives you? I thought it lights another city lit or whatever. Yeah. Owned the game for three years. Just found that out in Florida a couple weekends ago. How dumb am I? Wow. Are you guys both big on the rules? Like, I mean, is it just from experience for you, Ron, Bruce? Is it just, do you actually go into it in some sort of deep manner where you actually go through the rules online? Bruce knows rules way better. Yeah, I know rules better. I try to know more because it gives you a slight, some slight advantage or sometimes a lot, a bigger advantage, you know, the way you can manipulate it. Like if you see what Steve Bowden can do with rules. Hi, Steve. It's just incredible. He knows them way better than I do. Like, you know, Creature, some of the stuff he knows on Creature, I'm like, huh? The one thing about deep rules that bothers me is when they're not listed anywhere. It's trial and error. You have no idea. And I think I talked to, I don't know if it was both you guys, we were talking about some of Lyman's rules, and he's got some of the greatest rules ever. But they're not listed anywhere. You just have to kind of fall into them. Well, some yes, some are no. But Zach hates the, Zach wants me to talk to Lyman about the ACDC rules.
    15:18
    Because he seems like he always, he has the, say, the skill shot, you know, the light for the button. And when he's in multi-ball, he seems like he always has two. He gets four to six shots. He hits the button twice, and it seems like it never works for him. For me, it always works for me. And he's just like, I don't understand this full rule, and he gets a little annoyed by it. Or like on Metallica where you're supposed to hit picks to light a snake to double. There's nothing that says that. No, of course not. Yeah. Or to add a ball. Yep. Yeah. Yep. I wish it was listed, but, I mean, you have to rely on things like tilt forums. Well, in the past, they did write down. And it was a lot of time and effort for some of these games. Like, if you ever look at Bowen's Rules for Simpsons, I think it's like nine pages. Oh, if there was only a video source where you could see all these games. Yeah, if there only was. Like, I don't know, pinballvideos.com, where you can watch any of them. Just saying. When you're seeing a game for the first time, it's... Yeah, you're right, Ron. I should stop complaining and maybe watch some of these games. All right, fine. Do your research. No, I guess if I know I'm playing a bunch of games. Here's an example. I'm going to be playing in December a few league finals. So I'll know what the games are. If there are games I don't know, yeah, I'll watch some tutorials or hopefully some videos. But it depends. The newer games, certainly Deadpool, I've had that at my house for a little while. We're still learning it. I mean, it's not the deepest game right now, but it's still also not at full code. But there's still a lot to learn there. And I wish there were some videos. And that's a problem with some of the newer games that come out. Because there aren't full code and codes are always being updated, you don't see the tutorial videos. Or if they are out there, they're dated because the code's changed. True. Like any early Guardians of the Galaxy videos. Exactly. Which is my latest game, by the way. So there's a game that I find very fun, and it's good for the novice players. You know, what do I do? I just hit group. And that's fun, and they can see what can happen there. But I like the risk-reward factor. It's got an action button, and it's one I'm fine with. I like the one-time hits, even Deadpool's like that too with the boom and ACDC firing the cannon, Walking Dead, Premium. Star Wars. Go away. Go away, baby. And you know what's too bad is I really – have you played Jersey Jacks, Pirates of the Caribbean? Not at all. I got slaughtered on it by Carl D'Angelo. Oh, the guy who just bought one? Yeah, and who's one of the best players in the world? Oh, who just streamed one? Yeah, yeah. Yep. It's a fun game. No question about that. Don't like the gold thing. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Stop it. Come on, Keith. Stop it. You're better than that. Your rules. Reminds me of Simpsons a little bit in that you just start as many things as possible, then get in as many multiballs as possible, stack as much crap as possible where everything is lit, and then you have a ton of points. It is a fun game. I've actually got Joe Katz coming on the program in a little while, actually, to talk about that and some other Jersey Jack games. But yeah, it's been a pretty good year for pinball, don't you think? I mean, Iron Maiden, I mean, that game, I don't know if we've seen anything like that in the last three or four years, and certainly it's going to go down probably as one of the best games ever. I know you both like it. I like it a lot. I like it. I enjoy it very much. You've got to go deeper than that, boys. I like it.
    18:38
    I like the shots. I like the different rules. I just like the whole feel of the game, plus I love the theme. The theme is just, you know, it's one of the knockout themes for me. I love Iron Maiden. I would prefer less multiball. That's my only gripe. Okay, Zach. Less multiball. Like, every wizard thing is a multiball. I would prefer, like Metallica say, crank it up, single ball. It's like a single ball mini wizard mode. I love those. That was the one thing I liked about Family Guy was the TV wizard mode. It's a single ball wizard mode. I just feel like every time, everything is a multiball. Every, like, when you get, like, Cyborg Eddie or whatever, All the different Wizard modes, it's a multi-ball, it's a multi-ball, it's a multi-ball. I feel like I'm in multi-ball a lot. Yeah, I can see that. But, I mean, I think I like a variety of both, right? I think the fact that all the modes aren't multi-balls, that's important too. It's bringing in, I don't know, I just think Iron Maiden's a perfect game. And you were talking about liking the theme, Bruce. It's neat to see people who didn't like the theme that are now embracing it and realize it really does fit well for pinball. I love the theme. God, I love Iron Maiden. I've seen him six times in concert, so for me it was just like a woo-hoo.
    19:51
    All right, boys, let's get to Face Off. And, yes, Ron, we did talk about the year being predetermined. It's not exactly how Face Off went, but it's a neat year, and I wanted to pick this because some of the times you did Face Off, you did it by random.org, and you'd have a dog year where there was only one good company, and you're like, okay, this is going to be a slaughter. Well, let's look at some of the great years in pinball, and we're going to pick 1989. And yes, there were Data East games and Premier games. We're going to go Midway versus Williams. Do you like that, boys? I mean, you've got some good games to pick from. Yep, sounds good. Let's go through the list here. If you get Midway, you're going to be looking at games like Atlantis. You're going to be getting Elvira and the Party Monsters. And Transporter, the Rescue, which Bruce and I and Ron, we all just played at the Sanctum. I don't think I'm missing any. There you go. Yeah, you've got four. Atlantis, Elvira, Mouses Around, and Transporter. Yes. Not bad. I mean, Daddy East had Robocop, Playboy 35th Anniversary, Monday Night Football, and Baby in the Hole. One game was made there. I've never even heard of that. Roll Down. Oh, yeah. It's a Roll Down game? Okay. All right, so Williams, you've got a little bit better here, obviously. You've got Black Knight 2000, Bad Cats, Earthshaker, and Police Force. That's it. So there's four against four. Not bad. Are you both fine with either one? Yep. Yep. Let's do random.org, all right? Random.org, pick Bruce's number.
    21:26
    Don't. You get first choice, Bruce. Oh, boy. I wasn't expecting that. I will take Midway Okay All right You know what I do really like both these brands here Ron you got Williams and I think if face was done correctly the person who got the top pick had to go first. Is that correct? It was usually the person who lost the previous week would get to go second, but since I can't remember, it was so long ago. It was, I think, way back when you did Lethal Weapon the first few times. Yeah.
    21:59
    Yeah. Thank you. I knew as soon as you did that. I'm like, wait a second. They did that before. I remember this. They'll have some fun. So, Bruce, you go first. Okay. I am picking. Three games. Yep, three games. Which one are you going to pick? Not knowing what Ron's going to pick. What are you going to do?
    22:17
    I'm going to pick Mouse and Around. All right. Midway. Go ahead. That's a good system. 11B. Old Valley style cabinet, but really nice, colorful artwork. cartoony, which we all love. Great, big, humongous monster ramp on the back of it. Good jackpot shots. You got how many? You got three bumpers. And then what I do like about Bally Midway back then, they had some cool plastics for their ramps, you know, and with the lock mechanisms on this one, you got to hit the side and get it in the cheese, and then it pulls the ball back down. Really good game. Sounds are incredible. I love the sounds of this game. The sounds just keep you coming back. Side art, it's not bad, but I like the rules in this game. This is a good – you want to play this game. Every time you see a mouse in a round, besides being rare, you want to go back and play this game because it's just overall a good quality game from Valley Midway. I yield the floor. All right. I will select Earthshaker. Pat Waller. Need I say more? This is Pat Waller's second game. has the incredible shaker motor. What a great concept. I mean, just groundbreaking concept. A great, innovative play field with a default line that opens up and then the ball rolls into the lock. The moving building, if you have an earlier model, of the institute going up and down. Just incredible, awesome shots. Great feeling shots. classic artwork. Real back glass on this game. Great sound. Just great rule set by Larry DeMar. This is an all-time Williams classic. They made over 5,000 of these. I give you Earthshaker. Now my rebuttal. Okay, go ahead. You mean the great rule set of hit the one shot over and over and over and get your miles? That's all you do. If you have this game in tournament, you don't go for multi-ball. You just hit the middle ramp and collect your miles and just keep on hitting that middle ramp as much as you can. And when you're done with that, you keep on doing it again. It is not a fun game. It is a terrible game. Yeah, it's got some gimmicks. It's got your shaker motor. First time with a shaker motor, cute. After the 30th time shaking it, and Ron, we know how much you love shaker motors. Even though it's the original, it's still terrible. It shakes the whole game around. Fake tilt, here it comes, as Ron has said in the past. Just terrible rules. And it is, it's just, actually, I think it's one of his clunkier designs. You done? No. Let's go, Bruce. Enough of that. I think you're repeating yourself. Madison around. Your stellar artwork, really? Really? The artwork is terrible. All the easily breakable plastics. You want to talk about rules. How about that wonderful center ramp that every time it's in a tournament, they have to bastardize the thing so you can't hit it, so people just can't collect stuff over and over and over and over again. You talk about a game that needs a software rewrite. A wonderful multiball that you can't restart. Oh, you went through, you spelled mousetrap, you're excited, you locked your balls, multiball starts, oh, you're down to one ball, nope, no restart for you. Screw you, you've got to restart all over again. Horrible, horrible. That needs to be fixed, like I said. Terrible artwork. It was just an overrated game. Horribly overrated game. Mousin' Around. I yield the floor. Okay, time for the judge to step in here. Mousin' Around versus Earthshaker. What if I told you I'm lactose intolerant, Bruce? I don't like cheese eater. I'm not. I just wanted to put that little scare into you there. But Mousin' Around is a game I've played on several locations, and the most frustrating thing about that game is when you do get multiball and you want to hit the jackpot shot and you're lined up and that shot is so high up and it doesn't make the shot and it rolls back down. Very frustrating, although proper flippers would likely fix that. The ramp that Ron talks about, the center ramp, most places do modify that. I mean, if you look at Pinberg and Papa, the size of the rubbers there, my goodness, those things are huge. I mean, barely fits the ball in. You can also change it so that you only get the one shot there. So that's how you fix mouse and around. Shaker motor, very, very cool. The call-outs on our shaker, also pretty neat. A unique design for sure, but unfortunately, the big flaw is, as Bruce said, a one-shot. That is chopping wood to the ninth degree. I don't know about it being clunky, but it's certainly not one of Pat Lawler's best. Mousing around for the win. Woo!
    27:14
    Fail. My turn. Yes. Let's see. I am going to choose the game with the greatest multi-ball intro sequence in the history of pinball. The game with possibly the greatest music in the history of pinball. I give you Black Knight 2000, the sequel to Black Knight, with the incredible sound and light package that is just not equaled by any other game. The awesome upper play field. You want loops. You want flow. This game has tons of it. You want drop targets. We got that. You want magnets. We got the Mag to save. It's back, and it's awesome. Keep looping over and over. We have Ransom. Spell Ransom to watch the whole game go crazy. And again, the greatest multi-ball intro sequence of all time, and also, for us operators, very serviceable, as the entire upper play field easily tilts up for easy servicing. I give you Black Knight 2000. I am going with Elvira and the Party Monsters. Sexual innuendo at its best. Call outs, comments, great. Play field, shots, great. Toys, good. Not great, good. You do have with the bouncing monsters for 1989, a good little gimmick. Coffin, the little coffin targets, really cool, flippable. And you get reset when you hit both and you get the targets. Multi-ball sequence for light show, really good. Lights, camera, lights, action, or action. And then it goes, organ. Ooh, nice organ. Great comments. Fun game. I had mine for years. And you can't beat Elvira. I yield the floor. Okay.
    28:56
    Yes, lots of sexual innuendo. Just very offensive game. I would not let my kids play this game at all. 1989. Just very offensive. Offensive art. Offensive speech. I wouldn't let kids play this game. Very, very offensive. Just don't put this in your arcade. They did, if I recall, actually have like a thing you could put on the back list to kind of cover her up, even for this one. Other than that, I mean, it's just you got the two ramps. It's the same old, same old type rule set. Nothing special. I mean, the multi-ball start sequence doesn't even compare to Black Knight 2000. It's not even in the same league. I'm sorry. Elvira, nope. I yield the floor. Okay. Now you've brought up the rules part. So you're going to talk about now Black Knight, which is the keep it on the upper flipper and keep on doing loops. And if you get it down to the lower play field, what are you going to do? You're not going to take a hard shot or do anything interesting. You're going to go up the left ramp and get it back out in the upper play field. It's all you do in that game. Your left flipper on the lower left flipper is useless. You might as well just put your hand behind your back and play with the right flipper the whole time and let it bounce off the left flipper and go with the right flipper only and go back up top and keep it up top and then lock it and then plunge and keep using your right flipper. You have no left shot. If you actually get on your left flipper, you might have to move your hand off, hold it, tap pass over to your right flipper, put your hand behind your back, and start using the right flipper again. That is your rules for Black Knight 2000. Terrible. Boring game. Great light show. Terrible in tournaments. If you want to have a 30-minute game on Black Knight 2000 with a buddy, hint hint hi ron play black knight 2000 elvira is 10 times better i yield the floor i think it was longer than 30 minutes but yes well one person said something that was a major mistake and a horrible horrible argument i'll get to that in a second these are both games i love i really enjoy playing both of these games i like the shots in elvira i think it's funny i like how you can build that right ramp, it gets higher and higher. And, you know, obviously it's important to have consecutive shots. I like the flow of the game. I think it's a lot of fun. Neat little toys, like you said, as well. Black Knight 2000, still to this day, maybe, maybe one of the best theme songs ever. If you ever get a chance to hear John Rapogle from Pittsburgh sing it, it's well worth it. Yeah, I'll give you that, Bruce, that it's a right-handed shot only, but there are a lot of fun shots there. the speed of the game. It's a Steve Ritchie game, which is obviously going to weigh in on this. But the mistake that was made, do either of you know what the mistake was made when you argued this? What was the mistake? I don't know. Bruce talked about Black Knight 2000 being a terrible tournament game. I say Elvira is a much worse tournament game because I don't mind lock stealing, but the setup of the word Elvira is not very fair in a four-player game. and that can obviously really sway the win one way or another. So, the winner, Black Knight 2000. Woo! Yes! We come down to the third game. And now, there have been some blowouts on face-off before, but we've got it right here. Bruce, you're going to go first. 1989, give us your best midway game. Give us your bally Bruce Bally Bruce is going to go with Transporter to Rescue It better now Atlantis is terrible.
    32:34
    Transporter to Rescue. I actually like this game. It's got great sounds on it. It's got a lot of shots. You actually have the cross shot to go for the loop underneath on the right-hand side. You get it up to the top. Fun game. When everyone was playing it at the Sanctum this past, you know, when we were up there three or four weeks ago, I actually went back to it and played more and more of it. It's different shots, which we always complain about games that have different shots and are not fun. But this one has got different shots and is fun. And everyone's like, oh, it's not a fan layout. This is totally not. If you don't like your cookie cutter, you know, your fan layout, this game is not for you. But for most people, this is a fun, enjoyable game. I yield the floor. Okay. So going with the theme of bucking the trend by not having a fan layout, I'm going to go with bad cats because who doesn't like cats? Cats are great. And they bucked the trend with this game. They said, we don't need multi-ball. Single ball is fine. So we have wonderful, long, flowing plastic ramps, really good flowing shots that feel good. We got a great theme with cats. We have great artwork by Python Angelo. Just superior. We have an interactive back glass with, like, little moving things on it on springs. It's great. It looks awesome. Oh, did I mention the sound is awesome? I mean, come on, bad cats. Who doesn't like that? It's such a great game. Who doesn't like cats once again? Everyone loves cats. I give you bad cats. I don't like cats. But, and I don't like bad cats because of a couple major flaws in this ring game. First, no multiball. Hello, this is 1989, not 1977. Need a multi-ball game. That's why it didn't sell so well. Second, let's hit the ramp five times and get a million shot, and then keep on hitting that shot and keep on getting more millions. Terrible rules. Not fun. It is a good different layout, so I will go with the same argument I said before for, you know, it's not your typical fan. But there's only one thing to do in this game. Hit the ramp. When you're done with that, hit the ramp some more and keep on building up your million shots. Okay, Bruce. So your argument is because they only made like 2,500 of them. You know how many transporter the rescues they made? I didn't say anything about numbers. A whopping 859, Bruce. I didn't say anything about numbers. The game sucks.
    35:01
    Yes, you did. Listen to it back. You said that's why they didn't make many of them. They didn't make many transporter the rescues either. They made like three times as many bad cats as transporter the rescue. You have horrifically, just almost scary art. I mean, you have nightmares looking at the back glass on this thing. Yes, you have a multi-ball and a jackpot that hardly anyone can hit. If you look at the one at the Sanctum, half the time the jackpot value is so high because no one has hit it in like forever. The actual strategy is to basically go for the toilet bowl shot and then go for the target next to the left ramp eventually, and that's how you actually play the game. Just not a good game. terrible the stupid carrot flipper things that it has i hate those flippers terrible art transport of the rescue sucks i yield the floor which could be the very last face-off ever this is a lot of pressure on me the judge and i want to take this time to really think about it you know the transport of the rescue when they put this out they said the future of pinball has landed hmm i think it crashed Ron is absolutely right. Horrible, horrible artwork. It's not something to see. I care more about the gameplay, so I'll give you that, Ron. But again, tell me how it plays. The lock mech, kind of cool. You've got to give it that. Carrot flippers, sounds like you have a bias against the carrot flippers. So I don't know how much that's going to weigh into the argument here. But let's go to your bad cats game. Barry Ousser, a wonderful designer, no question about it. Yep, Barry Ousser. It is not Barry Ousser, it is me. I designed it. It is 100% Python. Python slash Triumph, yes, you had a lot to do with it. Don't see a lot of these games out on locations. It's funny because there were three times as many. I actually see more transporters. I don't know. Do you guys see a lot of bad cats? I only know one in the area, and that's out of house. Okay. Their slogan was, when we're good, we're very good, but when we're bad, we're even better. Not in face-off. It's a one-trick pony. You hit that ramp over and over again. Same thing like Earthshaker. Ron, I'm sorry to do this to you, but Bruce is the winner of perhaps the final face-off. Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom.
    37:21
    I'm used to it. You might quit before the year's over. Bad cats does suck, though. It does. Yeah. My only other choice is Police Force, and that's another game we just hit the same ramp. One-hit pony, one ramp. It's like I'm going to lose either way here. And, man, I had to put down Mousing Around. That hurt. I know. I felt your pain. It's a game I'd actually buy, and I have to totally rag on it. Yep.
    37:43
    And how do you think I felt about Black Knight 2000? I was ragging on that. I liked the game. So you're saying your integrity is out the window. You're just lying through your teeth on face-off. Oh, yeah, pretty much, yeah.
    37:56
    Playing in the top 100 to 200. Pin slam. Pin slam, yeah. Pin slam. Ryan and Martin lie all the time on pin slam. So I guess that's where they got it from. Anyway, it's always fun to hear Face Off. I'm looking forward to hearing more shows. I don't know how frequently they'll be coming out. I know it's a lot of work. And Ron, I know you said you're doing less editing. I don't hear a difference. So if it saves you five, six hours, continue what you're doing because you guys are pros. And you know what? Ums and ahs, no one really cares. I mean, you guys do a great job. And the big reason I had you on, this was actually set up before you made your announcement, is it's a special anniversary in the slam-tilt world, especially in East Rochester, New York, where the Silver Ball Saloon is coming up to one year. December 1st, correct? Yes, sir. Yeah, one year I've been doing this. Holy for holies. We have a big party planned. Actually, it's a funny thing. It's league night for us, so I'm going to be actually in Syracuse at 6 o'clock, and I'm going to drive back from Syracuse after league and celebrate with everyone at the bar. So we're going to have drink specials. We're going to have like six or seven games on free play. We're going to have the ball bowler going for free play. And we're just going to have a good time. And hopefully everyone will be able to come out and enjoy and celebrate that me and Kathy have done something that we're very proud of and we want people to enjoy. And we take pride in that this is our baby. And when you go to our place, you play a game, you're going to say, wow, this is a place that actually cares about game functionality and looks. and I might go back there again and put more money in these machines. And it is showing with our customer base, but we can always use more. And so I hope everyone can take the chance to come out, celebrate a year, look forward to our next year, and join us and just celebrate and have fun. Ron, I bet you and I are in the same boat. We wish it was closer to where we lived. Oh, yeah, just for the hamburgers alone and the curly fries. I know. Yeah, you know what? That's something that is very underrated. Your food's fantastic. And, Bruce, I know you've even been in the kitchen helping out there, too. Oh, I actually cook a lot more now than ever. For me, I'd rather be cooking than bartending. Bartender, I can do. I have no problem bartending, but I have more fun cooking in the back. I really do. Come check out the games. Maybe I'll have another new one. I think I'm going to have diner there. Sorry, Dirty Harry's going bye-bye, Ron. Oh. Yep. Ron wants the Dirty Harry at Sanctum to go bye-bye. I heard your episode. Yeah. I like that Dirty Harry. That's why it pissed me off even more. I know. Well, boys, enjoy Turkey Day, and thank you for so many great years of Slam Tilt. We will still hear the show, just when it's fun for you guys, when you guys have the time. And you know what? I think it'll be better shows for it, too. Yes, I hope so.
    40:43
    I'm not saying our shows haven't been good, but it's been a lot on both of us, and I feel bad for Ron dealing with me for two and a half years. No. Aw. How nice, Bruce. Ron doesn't feel that way. Of course not. It's a lot of fun. You guys have really set the bar, too. And you started before Pinball Profile, and we knew what the level was when we heard your show and what kind of content was interesting to listen to on a weekly basis. So a lot of myself included, a lot of podcasters have you guys to thank for what you've done and hopefully continue to do. We will. We've set the bar at least, what, three inches high? Yeah, maybe four. Maybe four? Okay.
    41:25
    Boys, all the best. Happy Thanksgiving and again Bruce congratulations on the one year anniversary of Silver Ball Saloon. Thank you very much Thank you Jeff. Thank you Ron. Thank you Jeff Congrats Bruce. Thank you sir This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find our group on Facebook. We're also on Twitter at Pinball Profile Email us pinballprofile at gmail.com and please subscribe on either iTunes Stitcher or Google Play Say goodbye Bruce. Goodbye Ron Hallett Very impressive You did that old one take. I'm amazed You have incredible skill Yes, I definitely do have incredible skills I've been told that my whole entire life That's why we're the best band Oh, it's Gene Simmons You know, Peter's a big fan of yours Peter Criss? He's dying to get back in the band No, no, Peter Griffith The fat man, my dad You mean Lois' mother? Lois, hello Yes, yes, Lois, yes Very good Alright, bye boys Okay, bye That's staying in Okay See you guys
    42:24
    Hold my mind, hold my mind Can you hold me, can you slide? Hold my mind, hold my mind I can't hold it if you try Hold my mind, hold my mind There's nothing to keep you alive
    42:54
    Oh my.